1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,640 S1: Hey everyone, it's Paul SoCal here and we're back with 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,479 S1: a special episode of Inside Politics because a few things 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,000 S1: have happened in Canberra this week, namely the breakup of 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:13,120 S1: the federal coalition. 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,960 S2: Now, on that breaking news out of Canberra, nationals leader 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,680 S2: David Littleproud has confirmed the coalition will split. 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,840 S3: The coalition is over the Liberal Party and the nationals, 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,160 S3: who of course form that coalition to be in opposition, 9 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,200 S3: splitting for the second time in less than a year. 10 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,960 S1: The 100 year old political alliance, which has turned the 11 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,400 S1: coalition into a natural party of government in Australia. Earlier 12 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,199 S1: on Thursday, nationals leader David Littleproud announced a split with 13 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,000 S1: the Liberal Party after a huge fracas over Labor's hate 14 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:48,040 S1: speech laws, where three rebel national senators voted against what 15 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,040 S1: liberals believe to be a party position. Agreed a few 16 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:52,520 S1: days earlier in the Shadow cabinet. 17 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,680 S4: When we have three of of our senators who had 18 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,960 S4: the courage of their conviction and did what our party 19 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,750 S4: room decided was the right thing to do for them 20 00:01:02,750 --> 00:01:06,869 S4: to to lose their jobs. We can't accept that. And 21 00:01:06,870 --> 00:01:09,310 S4: we made it very clear that there would be a consequence. 22 00:01:10,390 --> 00:01:14,110 S1: Joining me today is our federal political correspondent, Natasha Chrysanthos. 23 00:01:14,790 --> 00:01:15,470 S5: Hi, Paul. 24 00:01:20,150 --> 00:01:22,550 S1: So what does this mean for the coalition? Is the 25 00:01:22,550 --> 00:01:26,069 S1: split formal and what have we learnt on Thursday from 26 00:01:26,069 --> 00:01:27,550 S1: David Littleproud and Sussan Ley? 27 00:01:28,069 --> 00:01:31,470 S5: So according to nationals leader David Littleproud, who spoke early 28 00:01:31,470 --> 00:01:33,990 S5: on Thursday morning, it's done. 29 00:01:34,190 --> 00:01:36,830 S4: No it's done. I spoke to Sussan Ley about half 30 00:01:36,830 --> 00:01:38,990 S4: an hour ago and made her fully aware. I gave 31 00:01:38,990 --> 00:01:40,950 S4: her an opportunity yesterday after we had a party room 32 00:01:40,950 --> 00:01:42,709 S4: meeting when she ignored the letter. 33 00:01:42,790 --> 00:01:46,910 S5: This is not a threat. They're not coming back. The coalition, 34 00:01:47,230 --> 00:01:52,830 S5: for now at least. But indefinitely is over. Now, there 35 00:01:52,830 --> 00:01:54,710 S5: was a lot of toing and froing in the last 36 00:01:54,710 --> 00:01:57,470 S5: 24 hours as to whether that would be the case. 37 00:01:57,750 --> 00:02:00,980 S5: As you mentioned, it all started when three nationals Nos 38 00:02:01,020 --> 00:02:04,500 S5: frontbenchers voted against what was assumed to be the joint 39 00:02:04,500 --> 00:02:08,740 S5: party position on Labor's hate laws. This breached a concept 40 00:02:08,740 --> 00:02:13,380 S5: of shadow cabinet solidarity, which insists that everyone in a 41 00:02:13,380 --> 00:02:16,540 S5: in the frontbench, all of the leadership votes with the 42 00:02:16,540 --> 00:02:20,020 S5: party's position. Any breaches of this are taken very seriously 43 00:02:20,020 --> 00:02:22,380 S5: and deemed to be untenable. And so when they cross 44 00:02:22,380 --> 00:02:26,180 S5: the floor late on Tuesday night, it spurred quick speculation 45 00:02:26,460 --> 00:02:29,860 S5: that there would be more afoot. And indeed there was. 46 00:02:30,540 --> 00:02:34,900 S5: We had the three senators, Bridget McKenzie, Ross Cadell and 47 00:02:34,900 --> 00:02:38,740 S5: Susan McDonald offer their resignation to Sussan Ley on the 48 00:02:38,740 --> 00:02:42,660 S5: principle that they had breached shadow cabinet solidarity and understood 49 00:02:42,780 --> 00:02:48,060 S5: that they should step aside. But it was it was 50 00:02:48,060 --> 00:02:51,860 S5: a bit of a bluff, shall we say. These three 51 00:02:51,860 --> 00:02:56,020 S5: resignation letters came with an additional letter from David Littleproud 52 00:02:56,020 --> 00:03:00,220 S5: to Sussan Ley, saying if you accept these offers of resignation, 53 00:03:00,220 --> 00:03:03,730 S5: we will all resign. So it was an offer of resignation, 54 00:03:03,770 --> 00:03:07,490 S5: kind of underneath what was a giant threat. Susan Lee 55 00:03:07,530 --> 00:03:10,690 S5: was prepared to go for it. She accepted their resignations, 56 00:03:10,930 --> 00:03:15,490 S5: potentially assuming that the nationals wouldn't wouldn't follow with their threat, 57 00:03:15,490 --> 00:03:19,049 S5: because that would be a huge and to some crazy 58 00:03:19,090 --> 00:03:22,850 S5: thing to do. But by Wednesday night, after a 6 p.m. 59 00:03:22,850 --> 00:03:28,090 S5: meeting of the nationals, the remaining MPs in the coalition frontbench, 60 00:03:28,490 --> 00:03:31,650 S5: creating a total of 11 people had all resigned, leaving 61 00:03:31,650 --> 00:03:36,970 S5: no nationals in the coalition frontbench. Sussan Ley urged them 62 00:03:36,970 --> 00:03:39,970 S5: to reconsider, but they very quickly said well, we've just 63 00:03:39,970 --> 00:03:42,210 S5: done exactly what we've told you we were going to do. 64 00:03:42,370 --> 00:03:45,370 S5: This is on you. And so David Littleproud comes up 65 00:03:45,570 --> 00:03:48,970 S5: on Thursday morning and says it's all over. 66 00:03:49,290 --> 00:03:53,690 S1: I think just worth putting this against a broader context 67 00:03:53,730 --> 00:03:56,610 S1: to remember how we got here. We're back in Parliament 68 00:03:56,610 --> 00:03:59,610 S1: two weeks earlier than was planned for an emergency, sitting 69 00:03:59,930 --> 00:04:03,120 S1: off the back of the Bondi massacre. There'd been weeks 70 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,440 S1: of fervent calls from the opposition and many others in 71 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,160 S1: the community of goodwill saying we need to get back 72 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,839 S1: to Parliament, pass emergency laws to show that we've learnt 73 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,279 S1: lessons from Bondi and that will create a new security, 74 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,400 S1: social cohesion infrastructure to ensure that that can never occur again. 75 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:22,400 S1: There was a lot of pressure on the Prime Minister 76 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,080 S1: coming into this week after a really difficult summer facing 77 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:26,960 S1: calls for a royal commission, which he rebuffed for a 78 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,520 S1: long time and then backtracked on, it was pressure coming 79 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,360 S1: in to this week on him to ensure that he 80 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,279 S1: got some legislation passed. The Greens and the coalition were 81 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,120 S1: against key elements of the legislation, and there was lots 82 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,120 S1: of discussion about the Prime Minister's authority, whether he had 83 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,880 S1: he had been the one coming into this week with 84 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,640 S1: new internal pressure and a sense that he needed to 85 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:49,880 S1: match the moment, the coalition had a little bit of 86 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,960 S1: a pep in its step. You could say. And so 87 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:57,760 S1: the stunning speed of that narrative being the prevailing narrative 88 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,640 S1: as late as maybe Saturday or Sunday earlier this week 89 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,670 S1: to then only three days later, the coalition split in 90 00:05:03,830 --> 00:05:07,150 S1: is kind of extraordinary. And I wonder, Natasha, what's the 91 00:05:07,190 --> 00:05:10,310 S1: key argument that David Littleproud has put forward as to 92 00:05:10,350 --> 00:05:13,469 S1: why this was not, in fact, the nationals fault, but 93 00:05:13,470 --> 00:05:14,710 S1: was Susan Lee's fault? 94 00:05:14,870 --> 00:05:20,990 S5: Yeah, the disintegration has indeed been remarkable. Littleproud's so the 95 00:05:20,990 --> 00:05:23,870 S5: reason that the nationals got to the point they did 96 00:05:23,870 --> 00:05:26,670 S5: was that there was to ING and fro ING in 97 00:05:26,670 --> 00:05:30,029 S5: the nationals party room about whether there had been kind 98 00:05:30,029 --> 00:05:33,429 S5: of adequate scrutiny of these laws, whether they'd been too rushed, 99 00:05:33,430 --> 00:05:35,230 S5: whether they had enough time to go through them and 100 00:05:35,230 --> 00:05:37,589 S5: make sure that they were robust enough that the nationals 101 00:05:37,589 --> 00:05:40,630 S5: could tell their people or their constituents in good faith. 102 00:05:40,670 --> 00:05:42,430 S5: We've looked at these and we're confident that they're in 103 00:05:42,430 --> 00:05:45,430 S5: the interests of Australians. Nothing wrong with that argument. I 104 00:05:45,430 --> 00:05:49,870 S5: think that's what most people expect of their elected representatives. 105 00:05:50,190 --> 00:05:55,670 S5: So their justification for for withholding their support for the laws, rather, 106 00:05:55,710 --> 00:05:57,950 S5: was that labor had done it too quickly. 107 00:05:58,350 --> 00:06:01,270 S4: This was a rush process. We are talking about national 108 00:06:01,270 --> 00:06:07,300 S4: security matters with complex legislation, complex legislation that should be 109 00:06:07,500 --> 00:06:10,980 S4: scrutinized and understood before we're forced to vote on it. 110 00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:13,180 S4: That was the disappointing fact of it. 111 00:06:13,420 --> 00:06:16,339 S5: And that labor had made a mockery of the Westminster 112 00:06:16,339 --> 00:06:19,299 S5: system by doing so. And it was all about the 113 00:06:19,339 --> 00:06:23,300 S5: kind of rushed and hurried process. I think the big 114 00:06:23,300 --> 00:06:28,940 S5: problem there, which Lee found herself with, is that it 115 00:06:28,940 --> 00:06:31,300 S5: was her calling for Parliament to come back and pass laws, 116 00:06:31,339 --> 00:06:34,740 S5: as you just mentioned. Um, once she had done that 117 00:06:34,740 --> 00:06:37,620 S5: and said, what? What Australia needs to come together after 118 00:06:37,620 --> 00:06:41,660 S5: this moment is new laws and new laws. Fast. She 119 00:06:41,660 --> 00:06:44,860 S5: couldn't come back. When? When Albanese had called her to. 120 00:06:44,860 --> 00:06:47,420 S5: And then. And Lee refused to be constructive, that would 121 00:06:47,460 --> 00:06:50,380 S5: have looked very bad for her. So she, in pursuing 122 00:06:50,380 --> 00:06:53,220 S5: this line in the aftermath of the Bondi massacre, locked 123 00:06:53,220 --> 00:06:56,820 S5: herself into this position and was not able to get 124 00:06:56,820 --> 00:06:59,300 S5: out of it. And she told the coalition and she 125 00:06:59,300 --> 00:07:01,220 S5: told the Nats and she told the liberals at this 126 00:07:01,220 --> 00:07:04,250 S5: point it is incumbent on the opposition to be constructive 127 00:07:04,250 --> 00:07:06,650 S5: and also for people to see, oh, they're taking anti-Semitism 128 00:07:06,650 --> 00:07:08,290 S5: seriously and they want to do something about it. 129 00:07:08,290 --> 00:07:10,410 S1: The Jewish community wanted this bill to pass in some way, 130 00:07:10,410 --> 00:07:11,130 S1: shape or form. 131 00:07:11,370 --> 00:07:13,730 S5: So given all of that, you know, and you can 132 00:07:13,730 --> 00:07:16,250 S5: see how Susan Lee's decision making over the last month 133 00:07:16,250 --> 00:07:18,690 S5: has kind of taken us to this position. What do 134 00:07:18,690 --> 00:07:20,490 S5: you think this means for David Littleproud, and what does 135 00:07:20,490 --> 00:07:21,410 S5: it mean for Susan Lee? 136 00:07:21,890 --> 00:07:25,010 S1: Well, just on David Littleproud, first, a lesser known character 137 00:07:25,010 --> 00:07:28,490 S1: in the general public, no doubt, and naturally being the 138 00:07:28,490 --> 00:07:31,330 S1: National party leader, something that city based, someone who city 139 00:07:31,370 --> 00:07:34,250 S1: based voters wouldn't know much about. He's flown under the 140 00:07:34,250 --> 00:07:36,930 S1: radar a little bit this term for his tenuous grip 141 00:07:37,090 --> 00:07:40,250 S1: on his party, the junior coalition party. There's been a 142 00:07:40,250 --> 00:07:42,570 S1: lot of talk about Sussan Ley and when her reign 143 00:07:42,570 --> 00:07:44,850 S1: will come to an end, and that could be hastened 144 00:07:44,850 --> 00:07:47,690 S1: by this crisis. But David Littleproud is in a precarious 145 00:07:47,690 --> 00:07:51,490 S1: position himself. He was dragged to vote no against this bill, 146 00:07:51,530 --> 00:07:53,850 S1: or to allow his senators to vote no against this 147 00:07:53,850 --> 00:07:59,010 S1: bill by nationals Senator Matt Canavan, who's an agitator in 148 00:07:59,010 --> 00:08:04,710 S1: the National Party, has a significant right wing libertarian constituency 149 00:08:04,950 --> 00:08:09,310 S1: in some ways has more kind of authenticity as a 150 00:08:09,710 --> 00:08:17,590 S1: symbol of regional grievance and regional kind of hostility towards, uh, 151 00:08:17,590 --> 00:08:21,550 S1: city based policies than his leader, David Littleproud, who often 152 00:08:21,550 --> 00:08:25,350 S1: feels compelled to go with Matt Canavan and execute his 153 00:08:25,350 --> 00:08:29,230 S1: policy agenda. And this was another case where Canavan kind 154 00:08:29,230 --> 00:08:31,910 S1: of led the charge against this labor bill. 155 00:08:31,950 --> 00:08:35,110 S6: The biggest attack on free speech since Robert Menzies tried 156 00:08:35,110 --> 00:08:37,910 S6: to ban the Communist Party in the 1950s. This is 157 00:08:37,910 --> 00:08:40,630 S6: not the way to deal with the tragic events of 158 00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:45,309 S6: Bondi we saw last month. Effectively, these laws aren't about 159 00:08:45,309 --> 00:08:49,070 S6: banning hatred, they're about banning criticism of government policies. 160 00:08:49,429 --> 00:08:52,990 S1: And Littleproud, after initially suggesting to the Liberal Party that 161 00:08:52,990 --> 00:08:56,510 S1: the nationals could support the bill, ends up in Canavan's position. 162 00:08:57,110 --> 00:08:59,150 S1: There are questions in the National Party now about how 163 00:08:59,150 --> 00:09:02,700 S1: long Littleproud's leadership can last if his business model is 164 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:07,180 S1: effectively to follow the wishes of his right flank and 165 00:09:07,179 --> 00:09:10,179 S1: his decision to blow up the National Party and resign 166 00:09:10,179 --> 00:09:13,620 S1: himself along with other frontbenchers, along with the three who 167 00:09:13,620 --> 00:09:17,220 S1: were forced to resign effectively because they broke convention, is 168 00:09:17,220 --> 00:09:20,540 S1: a hugely contentious decision by a National Party leader. He's 169 00:09:20,540 --> 00:09:25,380 S1: blown up a political alliance that has been extremely fruitful. 170 00:09:25,380 --> 00:09:27,260 S1: That's meant that the coalition has been in power for 171 00:09:27,260 --> 00:09:30,500 S1: the majority of time since World War two. And this split, 172 00:09:30,540 --> 00:09:34,860 S1: unlike the more brief split after the May election last year, 173 00:09:34,940 --> 00:09:37,980 S1: is likely to be much longer. It might lead to 174 00:09:38,620 --> 00:09:42,500 S1: National and Liberal Party candidates contesting the same seats. It 175 00:09:42,500 --> 00:09:46,460 S1: may lead to nationals senators losing their Senate positions because 176 00:09:46,780 --> 00:09:49,580 S1: they have those spots, because they're number two on a 177 00:09:49,580 --> 00:09:53,140 S1: coalition ticket. The national primary vote is only around for 178 00:09:53,179 --> 00:09:56,740 S1: 5 or 6% at any given time across the country, 179 00:09:56,740 --> 00:09:59,380 S1: whereas the Liberal Party vote is in the 20s. So 180 00:09:59,380 --> 00:10:01,740 S1: the National Party in many ways needs the liberals more 181 00:10:01,740 --> 00:10:05,250 S1: than the other way around, and so his future is uncertain. 182 00:10:05,490 --> 00:10:08,650 S1: Now just shift into Lee. There are two schools of 183 00:10:08,650 --> 00:10:11,610 S1: thought about the events of the past few days. One 184 00:10:11,610 --> 00:10:15,330 S1: is that she has handled this poorly, and even though 185 00:10:15,370 --> 00:10:19,810 S1: Littleproud fired the gun, she set up the circumstances. As 186 00:10:19,809 --> 00:10:22,610 S1: you just mentioned Natasha and she wears the blame and 187 00:10:22,610 --> 00:10:27,370 S1: she even though again, there is absolute fury towards Littleproud 188 00:10:27,570 --> 00:10:31,250 S1: across both factions of the Liberal Party, that she eventually 189 00:10:31,250 --> 00:10:33,730 S1: wears the blame because she's the opposition leader and that 190 00:10:33,730 --> 00:10:37,050 S1: she's fatally wounded. But there's a strong sentiment in the 191 00:10:37,050 --> 00:10:40,170 S1: Liberal Party as well to not reward David Littleproud, who 192 00:10:40,210 --> 00:10:43,930 S1: effectively is dead. Liberals to topple Sussan Ley today by 193 00:10:43,929 --> 00:10:47,330 S1: saying that the coalition couldn't exist will never exist until 194 00:10:47,330 --> 00:10:50,090 S1: she's removed as leader. That's the effect of what he's saying. 195 00:10:50,490 --> 00:10:53,410 S1: So was described to me today that Liberal Party MPs 196 00:10:53,410 --> 00:10:56,010 S1: have been on the phone all morning. There's no sense 197 00:10:56,010 --> 00:10:59,570 S1: of organisation about when a leadership challenge might occur. There 198 00:10:59,610 --> 00:11:02,720 S1: is pretty widespread acknowledgement that even though she may not 199 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,480 S1: be entirely to blame for this crisis, that Sussan Ley 200 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,719 S1: will eventually lose her position over it. But no one 201 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,480 S1: is doing the numbers formally. There is no appetite to 202 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,280 S1: bring the party room back before Parliament resumes in early February. 203 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,440 S1: So there might be a couple of weeks of speculation 204 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,720 S1: about how a Liberal only opposition might look until we 205 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,119 S1: actually have this come to a head when MPs return 206 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,480 S1: in early February. I think the best quote I heard 207 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,680 S1: today from a from a Liberal MP about the nature 208 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,000 S1: of the calls going on, is that there's a lot 209 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,600 S1: of blind men in a room searching around for where 210 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,640 S1: the walls are. People don't really know where to go next. 211 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,680 S1: It's dire. There is a sense of depression across the party. 212 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,280 S1: But the next few weeks are really unclear. 213 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,760 S5: I think what this means more broadly is when we 214 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,360 S5: do come back to Parliament in a couple of weeks time, 215 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,120 S5: we're going to have labor with a 94 seat majority 216 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,400 S5: in the House, and the opposition is now just the 217 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,360 S5: Liberal Party. The National Party has become a cross-bench party. 218 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,470 S5: In the Senate, there are four nationals. Senators. There are 219 00:12:03,470 --> 00:12:07,030 S5: four one nation senators like their representation in the Senate 220 00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:09,550 S5: is equal to one nation now. And in the House 221 00:12:09,550 --> 00:12:11,670 S5: it's 28 liberals. 222 00:12:11,710 --> 00:12:12,270 S1: Something like that. 223 00:12:12,309 --> 00:12:17,870 S5: Something like that. That is it's not a strong opposition. 224 00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:22,270 S5: And so, you know, very ironically, where it seemed like 225 00:12:22,309 --> 00:12:25,429 S5: the last month might put the first real dent in 226 00:12:25,429 --> 00:12:30,030 S5: Albanese's stronghold over the parliament since May. Now he's got 227 00:12:30,070 --> 00:12:34,230 S5: a he's dealing with an opposition minus a dozen people 228 00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:37,270 S5: or more. Yeah. I think the dynamics of the Parliament 229 00:12:37,270 --> 00:12:39,710 S5: will just continue to change, and we're yet to see 230 00:12:39,710 --> 00:12:42,069 S5: where they'll land, especially with the kind of spectra of 231 00:12:42,070 --> 00:12:45,510 S5: one nation hovering over this. And, you know, the possibility 232 00:12:45,510 --> 00:12:48,870 S5: that there's more there's more movement or more defections is, 233 00:12:48,910 --> 00:12:52,150 S5: as perhaps some Nats choose to back the winning horse, which, 234 00:12:52,190 --> 00:12:54,829 S5: according to some polling is One Nation. 235 00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:57,510 S1: Yeah, there's a lot of ups and downs in politics, 236 00:12:57,510 --> 00:13:02,069 S1: but some moments are kind of generational and historic. And 237 00:13:02,070 --> 00:13:05,180 S1: this is arguably the lowest point in the Liberal Party's 238 00:13:05,179 --> 00:13:07,420 S1: history since its founding in the mid 40s, and probably 239 00:13:07,420 --> 00:13:10,059 S1: one of the biggest crises on, uh, on the right 240 00:13:10,059 --> 00:13:14,100 S1: flank of politics in since Federation. So if the last 241 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:16,260 S1: three days is anything to go by, the next two 242 00:13:16,260 --> 00:13:17,980 S1: weeks will be a wild ride until we're back here 243 00:13:17,980 --> 00:13:21,540 S1: in Canberra for another sitting week. Thank you for joining us, Natasha. 244 00:13:21,620 --> 00:13:22,620 S5: Thank you. 245 00:13:30,740 --> 00:13:32,940 S1: You can read this story and all our political news 246 00:13:32,940 --> 00:13:39,460 S1: on our websites, theage.com.au or the Smh.com.au. Today's episode was 247 00:13:39,460 --> 00:13:42,580 S1: produced by Kai Wong with help from Debbie Harrington. Our 248 00:13:42,620 --> 00:13:45,579 S1: executive producer is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts were overseen 249 00:13:45,580 --> 00:13:48,700 S1: by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. And if you're wondering 250 00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:51,340 S1: where our esteemed host, Jacqueline Maley is, she'll be back 251 00:13:51,340 --> 00:13:54,780 S1: next week. Before we go, follow Inside Politics and leave 252 00:13:54,780 --> 00:13:57,100 S1: a review for us on Apple or Spotify. I'm Paul 253 00:13:57,100 --> 00:13:58,500 S1: Sakala and thank you for listening.