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S1: All right, let's hit it.

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S2: Guess what father sex has brought you, Con?

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S3: They're not going to put you anywhere with nukes. Well,

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S3: that's insulting. I don't think I want to go anywhere.

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S3: That doesn't happen next.

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S4: I thought you were backwash at the bottom of the

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S4: gene pool. But this is something else.

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S5: You're a street rat. Actually, no. You're a fucking snake.

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S6: I love him, but not in love with him. You know,

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S6: one head, one crown. But I'll need ballast. Are you

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S6: with me?

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S1: Welcome to the Drop and our Succession Recap podcast. I'm

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S1: Osman Farooqi. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and Mel Kembali

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S1: to break down Episode seven of Succession Season four. I'm

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S1: calling this one. We're back, baby. How'd you guys feel?

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S7: We are back, baby. I felt like episode 6th May

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S7: well not have existed. It was like we basically wiped

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S7: the floor with it. Yeah, we got.

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S1: A lot of feedback to last week's episode of our podcast.

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S1: People were pretty mixed on how they felt about it, though.

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S1: Some people that said we were totally off the mark

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S1: and they loved the previous episode and others that said,

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S1: Thanks for articulating what I couldn'trillioneally get out myself that

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S1: it felt a bit tonally wrong and it just didn't

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S1: feel like it belonged in this season because of its

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S1: kind of more chaotic plotline. But I felt like this episode,

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S1: episode seven is a vindication for those of us, particularly

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S1: you and I, Thomas and others who really didn't get

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S1: into episode six. The whole thing is a reset. It's

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S1: like you said, it's like Episode 6th May never have

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S1: even existed. We barely get a reference to Living Plus,

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S1: which was this big key thing for a while. And

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S1: all the plot mechanics, aside from a couple of things

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S1: here or there, essentially have disappeared as well. How do

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S1: you guys feel about the brave step we took in

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S1: daring to criticize an episode of one of the greatest

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S1: shows of all time? Well, you.

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S8: Know, I saw Kyle Sandilands wedding on the weekend and

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S8: I know that being a shock jock can can pay off,

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S8: but I do think it's okay to say, and I

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S8: think we saw it in episode six and we see

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S8: it in quite a few episodes, that succession has a

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S8: formula and it's really a fantastic formula. It's one that

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S8: succession has pioneered, but you can see it at work

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S8: in these episodes, like the kind of the setup, the

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S8: comedic side plot, the business plot, interacting with the personal,

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S8: the movement towards the climactic final scene, whether that's with

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S8: Roman or Kendall or Shiv and Tom. And there is

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S8: this formula and I think sometimes you see the mechanics

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S8: of it and it bores you a bit like it

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S8: did in episode six for Thomas, who just wants Logan

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S8: to die in every single episode, wants to be on

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S8: the Citadel podcast. But sometimes it works really well and

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S8: sometimes it can be a bit boring or a bit

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S8: obvious or feel a bit loaded as it did for

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S8: you last episode. But I thought in this one, it's

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S8: all the things we love about succession working really well,

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S8: and I don't think it was like a great party,

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S8: but I think the episode was that was fantastic.

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S7: Yeah, I think it was. It felt like and I've

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S7: said this probably ten times on the podcast, it kind

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S7: of felt like classic succession, though. It was like we

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S7: had a party. It was like everyone was kind of

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S7: like conniving and stuff. It was, it was pretty amazing.

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S7: I thought I'd loved being back in one location. Also,

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S7: who doesn't love like a house party? They were like,

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S7: it was actually like your classic house party. There was

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S7: like a weird gate crasher in medicine that was like

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S7: a breakup, a breakdown. It was like making you ten again.

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S7: Except the alcohol was better. So loved it. Big fan.

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S1: Great insight into your high school. Yeah, pretty much. I wonder.

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S1: We talked about this a bit ourselves. Not not on

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S1: the podcast last week about how a lot of people

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S1: seem a bit too scared to maybe critique the show

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S1: because it's become almost like this meta conversation about how

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S1: good this show is, that if you go off script

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S1: and say something doesn't quite land, you feel like a

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S1: crazy person. We thought we were going a bit crazy

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S1: last week because most people in the kind of TV

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S1: reviewing media community said this was an astonishing episode. Even

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S1: the critics and reviewers who I always trust said that

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S1: episode six was was amazing. But I do think that

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S1: the brilliance of Episode five, when they're in Norway and

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S1: the sharpness of this episode really do make it more

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S1: obvious how much of a weird moment episode six really was.

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S1: And I think we'll go into more detail about what's

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S1: stuck from that episode and what didn't and what it

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S1: might mean for the show going forward. But let's talk

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S1: about what happened in episode seven. It's the day before

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S1: the election and Tom and Shiva hosting Logan's annual Pre-election

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S1: Party at their place to spice things up a little bit.

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S1: Kendall suggests that Shiv invite her old boyfriend Nate, played

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S1: by another Aussie, Ashley Zuckerman, because he's now an advisor

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S1: to the Democratic presidential candidate Daniel Gimenez. That president, if elected,

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S1: could block the Waystar acquisition. So Kendalls plan is to

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S1: quietly lobby him over drinks, hoping to blow up the

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S1: deal using this new method.

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S9: Okay, you guys ready to spread some regulatory anxieties?

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S5: Yeah, sure. Spread those surveillance capitalism. CBGBs. Yeah.

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S1: Shiv is still secretly supporting Madison, so she lets him

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S1: know that this is what her brothers are up to

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S1: and invites him to the party as a gate crasher.

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S1: Chaos inevitably ensues. Everyone is running around having secret side

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S1: chats with one another. Kendall and Madison get into a

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S1: pretty intense confrontation.

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S4: Thank you and congrats to you as well, because I

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S4: hear your numbers are gay.

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S10: My numbers are what? Gay? My numbers are gay.

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S4: Yeah, you had this. Cute little valuation and your numbers

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S4: just came out as gay.

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S1: While all of this is going on, Connor is having

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S1: his own negotiation with the Republican candidate for president, Jared Menken.

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S1: He wants Conor to drop out of the race and

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S1: Tom and Shiv go from rekindling their love last episode

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S1: to having one of the most emotionally bruising and brutal

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S1: fights we've seen on the show so far.

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S11: You betrayed me.

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S12: You were going to see me get sent to fucking prison.

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S1: I feel like team. We should start with Shiv and Tom.

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S1: The episode opened and ended with them and made me

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S1: kind of think that throughout this whole season, as we've

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S1: been following the different characters around and different episodes have

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S1: had a different emphasis on different sibs. Shiv and Tom

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S1: have kind of been a bit of a through line,

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S1: like we started this season with the emotional weight of

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S1: them deciding to divorce. It feels like the season is

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S1: almost really about their lives. What do you think?

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S7: Yeah, well, I guess, you know, like Shiv and Tom.

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S7: Tom kind of place himself at the emotional heart of

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S7: this show when he made the decision that changed everything

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S7: in the season three finale. And so I guess like,

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S7: the repercussions of that have slowly played out both on

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S7: a personal and professional level. And, you know, we've spoken

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S7: so much about their decision to split. And then, you know,

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S7: people have been confused like, are they going to get

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S7: back together? And it still remains so unclear. But yeah,

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S7: I guess in a way, we've been there's been so

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S7: much noise around the show that we've maybe missed just

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S7: how crucial and kind of devastating this relationship is, like

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S7: watching it kind of try and revive itself in real time,

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S7: but probably not be able to survive. And I think.

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S8: That power is at the heart of this show. And

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S8: in a marriage, there are so many different types of

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S8: power at play. There's the sexual power, there's the financial power,

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S8: there's the emotional and psychological power. So zooming in on

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S8: their marriage lets the writers play with all these different

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S8: types of power and how they all overlap with each other.

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S8: And it's like also a kind of play on partner,

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S8: which is obviously a business term and a kind of

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S8: romantic term as well. And you're seeing in them the

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S8: professional and personal collide, which is also very much at

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S8: the heart of the show. So they're just using it

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S8: to drill in on all these factors that the show's

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S8: interested in exploring and really intense way.

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S1: I think the show's also shifted who the outsider character

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S1: is over its season run. Like Greg started out like

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S1: that and has become almost entirely comic relief now. Like

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S1: he doesn't really have a moral conscience. Tom is more

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S1: complicated because he is an outsider like his his Midwest guy.

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S1: And they have sort of leant into that, I think,

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S1: a lot more this season as he's been separate from Shiv.

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S1: But he also runs like basically the fictional equivalent of

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S1: Fox News. So, you know, it's a complicated thing as well.

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S1: And I'm really keen to talk to you guys about

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S1: how that all played out at the party. But let's

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S1: let's start with the opening scene of this. I thought

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S1: it was so funny really having Tom present Shiv this breakfast,

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S1: the sort of this offering of his love. But the

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S1: breakfast is prepared by this private chef. And so the

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S1: one thing that he actually does that is his own

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S1: choosing is this gift of this scorpion kind of paperweight,

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S1: which Shiv is not really impressed with. Are you guys familiar?

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S1: Not to get all weird and philosophical, The parable of

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S1: the Scorpion and the Frog.

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S8: Gather round, children. I have a story to tell.

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S1: Well, I thought. I thought this is what this was

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S1: clearly an allusion to.

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S7: I don't know much about parables, but I feel like

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S7: I'm the odd one out, so.

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S8: Oh, you don't know the you didn't know what that

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S8: reference was to. I mean.

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S7: Don't shame me on the.

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S8: Pod. Sorry. It does come up in a lot of

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S8: TV shows.

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S7: This doesn't end. I didn't know.

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S1: It's also you might you might have seen the meme,

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S1: this cartoon of like a frog with a scorpion on it.

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S1: But basically the story goes that you might.

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S8: Have seen the meme. The rest of us know the parable.

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S1: The story goes that there's a frog and a scorpion,

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S1: and they're both on one side of this riverbank and

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S1: they're wanting to cross the river. And Scorpion says to

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S1: the frog, Hey, do you mind giving me a lift

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S1: so I can get across the river? And the frog says,

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S1: Why would I do that when you're on my back?

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S1: You'll just sting me and I'll die. Scorpion says, No, no, no.

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S1: Because if I sting you and you drown, then I'm

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S1: going to drown as well. I can't swim. And the

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S1: frog is like, Yeah, cool. That makes sense. So they

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S1: hit the river and there's the swimming along and the

201
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S1: scorpion halfway through ends up stinging the frog. And as

202
00:10:02,130 --> 00:10:04,400
S1: they're both drowning the foxes. Why did you do that?

203
00:10:04,410 --> 00:10:07,020
S1: Now we're both going to die. And the scorpion says, Well,

204
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S1: it's my nature. And I feel like that sums up.

205
00:10:14,900 --> 00:10:18,530
S1: Shiv pretty effectively, kind of both of them in a way.

206
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S1: But despite that, they could work well together. Shiv And

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S1: this is borne out in this episode, her instinct. It's

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S1: in her nature to ultimately hurt the person closest to her.

209
00:10:31,429 --> 00:10:33,949
S1: Have I gone too deep there? Do you think there's

210
00:10:33,950 --> 00:10:35,150
S1: something in that?

211
00:10:35,330 --> 00:10:37,010
S8: No, I think you're right. And he throws back to

212
00:10:37,010 --> 00:10:38,990
S8: it later on, which I know we'll get into where

213
00:10:38,990 --> 00:10:42,680
S8: he talks about how it's in your nature. You'll always survive.

214
00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,829
S8: This is just what you do. You you win. And

215
00:10:45,830 --> 00:10:47,359
S8: I think he gets to the point. But I also

216
00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,880
S8: did see the Scorpion as a sign of the nature

217
00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,170
S8: of their relationship that that is their dynamic and they

218
00:10:54,170 --> 00:10:57,080
S8: can't really get out of it because neither of them

219
00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,099
S8: gets what they want from from the other. And I also,

220
00:11:00,290 --> 00:11:03,140
S8: to your point about the kind of breakfast scene earlier

221
00:11:03,140 --> 00:11:04,609
S8: on in that I also thought it was very funny

222
00:11:04,610 --> 00:11:07,430
S8: that like they were kind of creating this faux day

223
00:11:07,429 --> 00:11:10,610
S8: after moment and she was on the couch in like

224
00:11:10,610 --> 00:11:13,729
S8: a tracksuit pant, which we very rarely see her. So

225
00:11:13,730 --> 00:11:16,370
S8: kind of undone. But I loved that she was reading

226
00:11:16,370 --> 00:11:18,500
S8: the polls for the day and that's like what he

227
00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:20,930
S8: brings her as a tree. It's the election polls.

228
00:11:20,929 --> 00:11:26,990
S7: Yeah. Firstly, two things goat breakfast, avocado, smoked salmon and

229
00:11:26,990 --> 00:11:29,210
S7: scrambled eggs. That's like pretty.

230
00:11:29,210 --> 00:11:29,900
S1: Good. It's pretty.

231
00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:33,530
S7: Good. That's like. That's great from Shiv. Appreciate that. Secondly,

232
00:11:33,530 --> 00:11:35,420
S7: I it turns out I do know that parable have

233
00:11:35,420 --> 00:11:38,000
S7: heard of it before but it isn't funny because the

234
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,910
S7: gift goes down really poorly and he's trying to save

235
00:11:40,910 --> 00:11:42,260
S7: it and he's like, oh, you know, it's funny because like,

236
00:11:42,260 --> 00:11:45,200
S7: you'll kill me and like. But then he tries to

237
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:46,760
S7: save it by being like, Oh, I'll kill you too.

238
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:48,500
S7: But yeah, obviously it does seem to be like an

239
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:50,510
S7: allusion to that and it pretty much sums up their

240
00:11:50,510 --> 00:11:53,660
S7: relationship like you said. And yeah, it sets the tone

241
00:11:53,809 --> 00:11:56,520
S7: for what is a very intense like Shiv and Tom

242
00:11:56,570 --> 00:11:57,650
S7: heavy episode. Really.

243
00:11:57,650 --> 00:11:58,850
S8: I was just gonna say, I feel like they try

244
00:11:58,850 --> 00:12:01,340
S8: to make so many strikes at each other and then

245
00:12:01,790 --> 00:12:03,500
S8: that's why it's so hard to watch because they're always

246
00:12:03,500 --> 00:12:05,630
S8: punching at each other and then occasionally they land a

247
00:12:05,630 --> 00:12:08,600
S8: body blow. I don't know if my boxing terminology is

248
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,940
S8: right here. Occasionally they get a knock out and you

249
00:12:10,940 --> 00:12:12,920
S8: kind of never know what's going to land with the

250
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:17,240
S8: other one. But that scorpion joke obviously hit Shiv really hard.

251
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,150
S1: There's a lot to unpack with the party, but I

252
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:23,630
S1: think let's just stay focused on Shiv and Tom for

253
00:12:23,630 --> 00:12:26,240
S1: the moment. Tom is not having a good time at

254
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,699
S1: this party. He's tired. He's stressed about the election, he's

255
00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:30,979
S1: worried about his job. But I also think that he's

256
00:12:30,980 --> 00:12:34,520
S1: ultimately thrown not by those bigger factors, but by the

257
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,120
S1: other men in shivs life. Like when she tells him

258
00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,760
S1: that Nate, her ex, is coming to the party, he's

259
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,630
S1: not in a good way. Then Lucas Mattson appears and

260
00:12:44,630 --> 00:12:48,170
S1: he's also caught off guard. He is this real deep insecurity,

261
00:12:48,170 --> 00:12:51,830
S1: I think, which is what is the kind of common

262
00:12:51,830 --> 00:12:57,050
S1: thread for him in this relationship. Shiv obviously has found

263
00:12:57,050 --> 00:13:00,740
S1: him to be a useful figure. He's he's mildly competent.

264
00:13:00,740 --> 00:13:04,520
S1: He's someone that she thinks largely she can trust. And

265
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,850
S1: that's why that betrayal at season three hit her so deeply.

266
00:13:07,850 --> 00:13:11,300
S1: But he clearly has always felt like he doesn't belong.

267
00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:14,150
S1: He doesn't deserve Shiv. And when these other guys who

268
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:18,170
S1: are more successful, more handsome, whatever, come along, he just

269
00:13:18,170 --> 00:13:20,180
S1: is left spinning around like a top in that party.

270
00:13:20,179 --> 00:13:21,530
S1: He's having a total meltdown, right?

271
00:13:21,530 --> 00:13:23,900
S8: Yeah. And I thought it was very interesting when Shiv

272
00:13:23,900 --> 00:13:26,600
S8: says to him, when she's explaining that Nate's coming, she

273
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,209
S8: was like, I couldn't think of a tactical reason to

274
00:13:29,210 --> 00:13:32,660
S8: say no. And it's like, Do you need a tactical reason?

275
00:13:32,660 --> 00:13:36,290
S8: What about Tom's feelings? You've just rekindled your relationship. Why

276
00:13:36,290 --> 00:13:38,209
S8: does it have to be a tactical reason? And she

277
00:13:38,210 --> 00:13:40,340
S8: throws back to it later on when she's like, Oh,

278
00:13:40,340 --> 00:13:43,250
S8: it was just a tactical joke. And I think he

279
00:13:43,250 --> 00:13:45,380
S8: kind of hits the nail on the head when he's like,

280
00:13:45,380 --> 00:13:47,449
S8: You find it hard to think about me because you're

281
00:13:47,450 --> 00:13:50,030
S8: all about the tactics and you don't really care who

282
00:13:50,030 --> 00:13:51,679
S8: loses if you're the winner.

283
00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,380
S7: Yeah, I do feel for Tom. Like firstly, the fact

284
00:13:54,380 --> 00:13:56,090
S7: that he was just so tired. I was like, Man,

285
00:13:56,090 --> 00:13:56,689
S7: I feel that.

286
00:13:56,990 --> 00:13:59,090
S1: I was really feeling that when I was I watched

287
00:13:59,090 --> 00:14:00,679
S1: this episode quite late at night.

288
00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,270
S7: Yeah, because he was. And it was so, you know,

289
00:14:02,270 --> 00:14:04,880
S7: when you feel that tired and know, everyone's like, Oh yeah,

290
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,890
S7: that sucks. But you're like, No, I'm so tired. Like,

291
00:14:07,150 --> 00:14:09,410
S7: feel for me. And she was giving him nothing.

292
00:14:09,410 --> 00:14:11,600
S8: I really liked his idea of pretty tired too. I'm like,

293
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,400
S8: I'm going to use that. I'm like, pretty tired for

294
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:14,329
S8: me tomorrow.

295
00:14:14,330 --> 00:14:17,090
S7: Yeah, exactly. And then also, I guess to use the

296
00:14:17,090 --> 00:14:19,010
S7: House party analogy again, like there's nothing worse than when

297
00:14:19,010 --> 00:14:20,210
S7: you go to a house party and you're kind of

298
00:14:20,210 --> 00:14:22,700
S7: like vibing with someone and then two hotter guys show

299
00:14:22,700 --> 00:14:25,370
S7: up and you're like, Everything's ruined straight away. And we

300
00:14:25,370 --> 00:14:28,470
S7: know that Madison is objectively the best man in succession universe. Yeah,

301
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:30,830
S7: and also Nate is pretty hot too. So I felt

302
00:14:30,830 --> 00:14:34,489
S7: for Tom in that way. But we've said this a

303
00:14:34,490 --> 00:14:37,610
S7: few times on the podcast. How many scenes can we

304
00:14:37,610 --> 00:14:39,830
S7: see where people are like going to win awards? Because

305
00:14:39,830 --> 00:14:42,500
S7: every scene was like far out man. Like, how do

306
00:14:42,500 --> 00:14:44,210
S7: you not give them all the awards now?

307
00:14:44,210 --> 00:14:47,360
S1: Yeah, every episode has had one, at least one actor

308
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,950
S1: delivering like this monologue or some dramatic, you know, fight

309
00:14:51,950 --> 00:14:54,860
S1: that you're like, okay, that's your Emmy highlights real. The

310
00:14:54,860 --> 00:14:59,060
S1: lead up to their spectacular blow up on the balcony

311
00:14:59,060 --> 00:15:03,080
S1: is essentially to your point Mel Tom calling out Shiv

312
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:07,610
S1: for using him as a, I guess, like a proxy

313
00:15:07,610 --> 00:15:10,280
S1: for what she's trying to achieve. She's she's happy for

314
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,340
S1: Madison to joke around about. ATN She's happy for others

315
00:15:13,340 --> 00:15:16,100
S1: to think that Tom's going to get. It suits her purposes.

316
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,550
S1: She doesn't really care about his feelings, even though she

317
00:15:18,550 --> 00:15:21,880
S1: says earlier on she does. They actually have quite a

318
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,850
S1: pretty honest chat before the party where they're talking about

319
00:15:24,850 --> 00:15:27,400
S1: how they're going to announce to everyone. We were on

320
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,739
S1: a break, but we're back. Things are good. So she

321
00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:32,620
S1: does seem into that idea. But whenever push comes to shove,

322
00:15:32,620 --> 00:15:36,940
S1: whenever it's a choice between Tom and her professional imperative,

323
00:15:36,940 --> 00:15:40,030
S1: she chooses that and expects Tom to go along. He

324
00:15:40,030 --> 00:15:44,380
S1: ultimately balks, which leads to that balcony confrontation. I counted

325
00:15:44,380 --> 00:15:47,200
S1: how long it went on for. It was like 7.5 minutes,

326
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,200
S1: which in a show that's about 60 minutes long, it's

327
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,840
S1: a huge chunk of time to just have two characters

328
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:57,010
S1: trading insults at one another. Absolutely. Another Emmy highlight reel.

329
00:15:57,010 --> 00:15:59,710
S1: I feel like every character in this show, every actor

330
00:15:59,710 --> 00:16:02,320
S1: in the show is going to win an Emmy. And

331
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,220
S1: we've seen them trade barbs before, but something felt so

332
00:16:06,220 --> 00:16:10,540
S1: much more raw because they were tapping into what we

333
00:16:10,540 --> 00:16:12,850
S1: have seen, I guess from episode one that they've never

334
00:16:12,850 --> 00:16:13,990
S1: said to each other.

335
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:16,990
S7: Yeah, I feel like Shiv and Tom so many times

336
00:16:16,990 --> 00:16:19,000
S7: we've seen them be like, Let's have an honest conversation,

337
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,950
S7: let's clear the air, let's be real. And then they

338
00:16:20,950 --> 00:16:23,470
S7: kind of don't. But this was like, this was hard

339
00:16:23,470 --> 00:16:25,210
S7: to watch. I found like, I watched the episode three

340
00:16:25,210 --> 00:16:28,840
S7: times and each time, like inevitably you kind of get

341
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,210
S7: distracted or you're taking notes. But every time this scene happened,

342
00:16:31,210 --> 00:16:32,950
S7: I was like, glued to it.

343
00:16:32,950 --> 00:16:36,040
S13: You shouldn't have even married me, actually. What the fuck?

344
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,450
S5: Yeah, what the actual fuck you propose to me proposed

345
00:16:40,450 --> 00:16:43,270
S5: to me in my lowest fucking ebb. My dad was dying.

346
00:16:43,270 --> 00:16:44,740
S5: What was I supposed to say? It was.

347
00:16:44,740 --> 00:16:48,940
S7: Awful. And like, every cut is, like, deeper than the

348
00:16:48,940 --> 00:16:50,050
S7: last from each of them.

349
00:16:50,050 --> 00:16:53,290
S13: You hit it because you were so scared of how

350
00:16:53,290 --> 00:16:55,480
S13: fucking awful you are. You were.

351
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:56,440
S11: Only with me.

352
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,810
S5: To get to power. Will you? Got it. Now, Tom.

353
00:16:58,810 --> 00:16:59,590
S5: You've got it.

354
00:16:59,590 --> 00:17:01,630
S12: I'm with you because I love you.

355
00:17:01,660 --> 00:17:02,320
S5: Bullshit.

356
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:04,840
S7: You're fucking me. It was. It was amazing. Writing an

357
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,690
S7: amazing delivery from those to Tom.

358
00:17:07,690 --> 00:17:11,020
S5: You offered because you're servile. You're just. You're servile.

359
00:17:11,020 --> 00:17:14,949
S12: You are incapable of thinking about anybody other than yourself.

360
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:15,790
S13: Because your sense.

361
00:17:15,790 --> 00:17:16,540
S12: Of who you are.

362
00:17:16,930 --> 00:17:18,399
S13: Is that fucking.

363
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,140
S5: Thing. Yeah. You read that in a book, Tom.

364
00:17:20,140 --> 00:17:21,430
S12: You're too fucking transparent.

365
00:17:21,430 --> 00:17:23,300
S7: And the thing was kind of amazing and like, you know,

366
00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:25,899
S7: we've all been in relationships at some point where you

367
00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:27,699
S7: have these awful fights and you say the things that

368
00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:30,399
S7: you've been wanting to say. And the thing that's interesting

369
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,080
S7: and so true is that like, all the stuff that

370
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,619
S7: I was saying was right, like Tom is servile and

371
00:17:35,619 --> 00:17:39,429
S7: that's really annoying. And Shiv is like kind of incapable

372
00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:41,619
S7: of love and that is really difficult to then be

373
00:17:41,619 --> 00:17:44,200
S7: in a relationship like everything that was saying was fair,

374
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,900
S7: but it was just like, Oh, you're just like picking

375
00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:48,910
S7: at the scab now and like pressing on the wound.

376
00:17:48,910 --> 00:17:51,670
S1: I also think that as well as giving us a

377
00:17:51,670 --> 00:17:56,020
S1: really amazing potential conclusion, maybe they'll get back together. I

378
00:17:56,020 --> 00:17:58,540
S1: don't know. But as well as giving us a sense

379
00:17:58,540 --> 00:18:01,719
S1: of where their relationship is at right now, it also

380
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,780
S1: feeds into what I think the broader point narrative of

381
00:18:04,780 --> 00:18:07,570
S1: this show is every opportunity. Shiv, as one of these

382
00:18:07,570 --> 00:18:10,930
S1: siblings of this broken family, has to be a human

383
00:18:10,930 --> 00:18:14,080
S1: and to empathize with someone who wants to raise a

384
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,250
S1: family with her. She rejects in favor of pursuing a

385
00:18:18,250 --> 00:18:22,330
S1: selfish corporate and political goal. And that, I think, again,

386
00:18:22,330 --> 00:18:25,270
S1: has been the through line of the show, but particularly

387
00:18:25,270 --> 00:18:28,510
S1: this season. Even Roman will talk about him a bit

388
00:18:28,510 --> 00:18:31,180
S1: more later on. But even the kind of weird relationships

389
00:18:31,180 --> 00:18:34,780
S1: he's had, he's screwed over the start of this episode

390
00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:37,930
S1: with Kendall and Rana, his ex wife. They are all

391
00:18:37,930 --> 00:18:41,560
S1: blowing up the vague remnants of whatever humanity they have

392
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,220
S1: to pursue this goal. And it's just it's becoming quite

393
00:18:45,220 --> 00:18:47,740
S1: distressing to watch, like you, Thomas, find it really difficult.

394
00:18:47,740 --> 00:18:50,919
S1: It reminded me of this really iconic season four episode

395
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,300
S1: of The Sopranos Whitecaps.

396
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,300
S14: You have made a fool of me for years with

397
00:18:55,300 --> 00:18:58,690
S14: these whores. Now it's coming to our home.

398
00:18:59,350 --> 00:19:00,310
S15: What are you talking about?

399
00:19:00,790 --> 00:19:04,600
S1: It's where Carmela and Tony who have had this tension Similarly,

400
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,430
S1: like they just say the stuff they've wanted to say.

401
00:19:06,430 --> 00:19:08,379
S1: Their entire relationship.

402
00:19:08,530 --> 00:19:10,300
S14: Who stole Tony? Oh, me.

403
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:11,080
S12: My own wife.

404
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,210
S16: 40 grand from the bird feeder.

405
00:19:13,780 --> 00:19:18,679
S14: Bird feeder? Listen to yourself. You sound demented. But you

406
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,050
S14: want to hit me, Tony? Go ahead. To me.

407
00:19:21,050 --> 00:19:24,050
S1: This is like the Hall of Fame fight scenes.

408
00:19:24,050 --> 00:19:26,480
S7: That's probably the best the best have fought of all time.

409
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:27,980
S7: Like I would say, number one, there was.

410
00:19:27,980 --> 00:19:30,949
S8: One thing I picked up in the fight and maybe

411
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:33,020
S8: this isn't quite fun fact corner, but I feel maybe

412
00:19:33,020 --> 00:19:36,570
S8: this is like Easter egg, Easter egg music or something.

413
00:19:37,310 --> 00:19:39,830
S8: Tom A whole thing that goes on through this whole

414
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:43,520
S8: episode is Tom and the wine, the really bad wine.

415
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,119
S8: And you guys might remember in season three, Tom and

416
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,489
S8: Shiva in a hotel room. And as their relationship is

417
00:19:49,490 --> 00:19:52,910
S8: falling apart, Tom very excitedly comes in and he's like,

418
00:19:52,910 --> 00:19:55,970
S8: This is our wine from our vineyard. And they sit

419
00:19:55,970 --> 00:19:57,740
S8: in the hotel room and they drink the wine and

420
00:19:57,740 --> 00:20:00,200
S8: they both taste it, and they're both like, Oh, it's

421
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,440
S8: not very good, is it? And so I love that

422
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,720
S8: Tom mentions in the fight that he's just been left

423
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,990
S8: with this fucking undrinkable wine. So I love this idea

424
00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:12,740
S8: that he's just got crates of they're rotting like this,

425
00:20:12,740 --> 00:20:16,700
S8: rotting wine, this symbol of their dying relationship. I thought

426
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:18,800
S8: that was very funny and because you say the whole episode,

427
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,540
S8: he's passing it on to people. Like he makes Nate

428
00:20:20,540 --> 00:20:22,280
S8: drink it and then he tries to take it away.

429
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,770
S8: So there's this scarcity effect. So I thought that was

430
00:20:24,770 --> 00:20:26,240
S8: a very fun Easter egg.

431
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,610
S1: Yeah, really? That's a really good pickup. I feel like

432
00:20:28,609 --> 00:20:31,639
S1: the one, the wine running away and him trying to

433
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,430
S1: offload it and then eventually hiding it is a bit

434
00:20:34,430 --> 00:20:37,160
S1: of a metaphor for where he is at with Shiv

435
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,180
S1: at this stage. Let's talk about some of the other

436
00:20:41,180 --> 00:20:44,420
S1: shenanigans we saw at this party. Maybe talk about Kendall

437
00:20:44,420 --> 00:20:46,369
S1: and Roman. We said this at the top of the episode,

438
00:20:46,369 --> 00:20:49,250
S1: Living plus is a faint memory. Like there is a

439
00:20:49,250 --> 00:20:53,240
S1: brief gag, I think that that shiv makes calling him Kendall. Plus,

440
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,379
S1: there's a couple of references to Kendall's performance at the

441
00:20:57,380 --> 00:21:00,560
S1: Investor conference. But do we want to talk more about, like,

442
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,390
S1: the living plus thing? Are we happy to just like

443
00:21:02,390 --> 00:21:04,060
S1: leave that in the past? What do you think, Thomas?

444
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:06,379
S7: I mean, I think like, if it's good enough for

445
00:21:06,380 --> 00:21:08,330
S7: Jesse Armstrong to leave in the past, I'm happy to

446
00:21:08,330 --> 00:21:11,570
S7: live in the past. I still think that look, you know,

447
00:21:11,570 --> 00:21:13,129
S7: we called it like it is. We were like, this

448
00:21:13,130 --> 00:21:16,130
S7: is a strange episode. And all the other cows out there,

449
00:21:16,130 --> 00:21:17,270
S7: we're like, Oh my God, we love you.

450
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:18,650
S17: Jesse Armstrong. I can't believe.

451
00:21:18,650 --> 00:21:21,650
S8: You're having your, like, free speech moment. Yeah, this is exceptional.

452
00:21:21,650 --> 00:21:22,070
S17: Yeah.

453
00:21:22,430 --> 00:21:24,380
S7: No, but I think I think it was satisfying to

454
00:21:24,380 --> 00:21:25,820
S7: say that it was not really that much of a

455
00:21:25,820 --> 00:21:27,830
S7: big deal this week, but I was happy to just like, whatever,

456
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:30,530
S7: we're in this now. But I thought it was funny. Like,

457
00:21:30,530 --> 00:21:32,330
S7: you know, we haven't seen Rava, which is where we

458
00:21:32,330 --> 00:21:36,230
S7: basically start the episode. Kendall's ex-wife ages. I kept like

459
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:38,359
S7: making a note to be like, What does this scene mean?

460
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,209
S7: Like in the scope of the episode? Because we get

461
00:21:41,210 --> 00:21:43,609
S7: this information that basically his daughter is having trouble at

462
00:21:43,609 --> 00:21:46,220
S7: school because people are bullying her because her dad works

463
00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:50,000
S7: for ATN, this right wing news network. And then then

464
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:51,710
S7: it's kind of gone. And then we delve deep into

465
00:21:51,710 --> 00:21:54,590
S7: this huge episode about kind of what ATN is doing.

466
00:21:54,590 --> 00:21:57,020
S7: It was interesting, like little kind of plot point to

467
00:21:57,020 --> 00:21:58,100
S7: drop in at the start.

468
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,520
S8: Yeah, I think probably that is hinting at ETNs, maybe

469
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,460
S8: right wing extremism because she gets pushed on the street

470
00:22:04,460 --> 00:22:07,790
S8: as well and it's racially motivated. Seems to be so

471
00:22:07,790 --> 00:22:09,290
S8: I think I do think that's coming to a head

472
00:22:09,290 --> 00:22:11,389
S8: with this presidential campaign. But I think you guys are

473
00:22:11,390 --> 00:22:13,580
S8: kind of wrong about living. Plus, like, yeah, they didn't

474
00:22:13,580 --> 00:22:16,010
S8: mention living plus over and over again. But I do

475
00:22:16,010 --> 00:22:19,610
S8: think it's set up this rivalry between Madison and Kendall

476
00:22:19,609 --> 00:22:22,669
S8: and this idea of them cooking the books. And I

477
00:22:22,670 --> 00:22:24,889
S8: think that will even if we don't get to go

478
00:22:24,890 --> 00:22:26,540
S8: like I know we wanted to go and see Living

479
00:22:26,540 --> 00:22:29,389
S8: plus Community and spend some time in it, even if

480
00:22:29,390 --> 00:22:31,340
S8: we don't see the actual communities being built, I do

481
00:22:31,340 --> 00:22:34,670
S8: think that the numbers are still going to come out

482
00:22:34,670 --> 00:22:37,850
S8: to play and maybe that's what that episode served to

483
00:22:37,850 --> 00:22:40,340
S8: set up and it did create this kind of parallel

484
00:22:40,369 --> 00:22:43,640
S8: between new and old money that is Madison and Kendall.

485
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,909
S8: So you're both courageous and thank you for speaking your mind.

486
00:22:46,910 --> 00:22:48,530
S8: But but thank you for finally.

487
00:22:48,530 --> 00:22:49,160
S7: Acknowledging it.

488
00:22:49,340 --> 00:22:52,040
S1: When when shivs presidential candidate wins were getting sent to

489
00:22:52,190 --> 00:22:54,530
S1: whatever they call the thought police prison.

490
00:22:55,250 --> 00:22:57,410
S8: Police stations into cuddle puddles.

491
00:22:57,410 --> 00:23:00,470
S1: The snowflake president, I've got two thoughts on the other thing.

492
00:23:00,470 --> 00:23:03,320
S1: I feel like that you've said this before, Thomas, on

493
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,260
S1: this on this podcast, that it feels like this season's

494
00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:07,909
S1: a bit of a greatest hits and they're giving everyone

495
00:23:07,910 --> 00:23:10,520
S1: one last crack. I feel like bringing back Rather Is

496
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,680
S1: that bringing Nate back is part of that too. But

497
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,280
S1: I also do think, like Kendall is confronted with his

498
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:24,379
S1: daughter being physically harmed because of her association with Atnt. Right.

499
00:23:24,380 --> 00:23:27,619
S1: And we know that Kendall is kind of broken. We

500
00:23:27,619 --> 00:23:30,170
S1: know all these siblings are kind of broken because their

501
00:23:30,170 --> 00:23:34,010
S1: father didn't care about their feelings as he was building

502
00:23:34,010 --> 00:23:37,129
S1: this empire. And Kendall thinks that he's like the antithesis

503
00:23:37,130 --> 00:23:38,929
S1: of his father. I feel like this scene was a

504
00:23:38,930 --> 00:23:41,750
S1: reminder that he's more like his dad in that way,

505
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:43,610
S1: in the way that he doesn't really care about his kids.

506
00:23:43,609 --> 00:23:47,600
S1: He cares about his corporate goal more. I also think,

507
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,000
S1: like we were saying with Shiv and Tom, it's another

508
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,840
S1: example where the opportunity to be human is rejected in

509
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,780
S1: favor of his desire. Like he ends up swearing and

510
00:23:56,780 --> 00:23:59,210
S1: screaming at his wife who's just trying to look after

511
00:23:59,210 --> 00:24:02,990
S1: their kid. It's another sign, I think, into how he's descending.

512
00:24:02,990 --> 00:24:06,590
S1: He kind of started this season being relatively healthy and okay,

513
00:24:06,590 --> 00:24:09,830
S1: and he's just so deeply committed to this right wing

514
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:11,960
S1: project that he doesn't even really care about. He doesn't

515
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,330
S1: really care about the politics. He just wants to win.

516
00:24:14,810 --> 00:24:17,030
S8: And he says something like, I'm doing this for you.

517
00:24:17,030 --> 00:24:18,919
S8: And it kind of makes it really stark that no

518
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,290
S8: one's asked him to do this and it's not benefiting

519
00:24:21,290 --> 00:24:24,410
S8: his family. In fact, it's kind of harming his family.

520
00:24:24,410 --> 00:24:28,250
S1: The confrontation with Madison, I thought, was pretty interesting. I

521
00:24:28,250 --> 00:24:30,770
S1: feel like we've been building up to that for a while.

522
00:24:30,770 --> 00:24:33,230
S1: My kind of takeaway about it was, even though Kendall

523
00:24:33,230 --> 00:24:36,680
S1: is positioning himself as like again, like an anti Madison,

524
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,750
S1: like he has that line on new money, man, we've

525
00:24:38,750 --> 00:24:41,450
S1: got to hold those bills up to the light. He's

526
00:24:41,450 --> 00:24:43,910
S1: like you said this. He's he's cooked the books himself.

527
00:24:43,910 --> 00:24:46,910
S1: He's the same. He's a charlatan who was taking credit

528
00:24:46,910 --> 00:24:49,520
S1: for other people's ideas matters and we find out is

529
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,220
S1: also taking credit for other people's ideas and cooking the books.

530
00:24:52,220 --> 00:24:54,890
S1: Aren't we just realizing that these guys are two sides

531
00:24:54,890 --> 00:24:55,850
S1: of the same coin?

532
00:24:55,850 --> 00:25:00,230
S7: Yeah, pretty much. He's just a way smoother coin than Kendall, unfortunately.

533
00:25:00,230 --> 00:25:03,230
S7: But I thought that was I'm really enjoying the humanization

534
00:25:03,230 --> 00:25:06,800
S7: of Madison because pretty much like 80% of what we've seen,

535
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,420
S7: he's just like this larger than life, so smart, so slick,

536
00:25:11,420 --> 00:25:14,030
S7: so smooth. And then they've kind of been chipping away

537
00:25:14,030 --> 00:25:15,920
S7: at him. And this was a big I actually thought

538
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,550
S7: it was quite funny that in general, when the Waystar

539
00:25:19,550 --> 00:25:22,159
S7: kind of American contingent went to Norway, they were totally

540
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,950
S7: at sea. And then it was kind of like the reverse,

541
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:27,290
S7: like the Swedish contingent in New York, they were totally

542
00:25:27,290 --> 00:25:30,649
S7: at sea. Like, you know, Oscar was boozed and kind

543
00:25:30,650 --> 00:25:32,150
S7: of making a fool of himself. Like he wasn't as

544
00:25:32,150 --> 00:25:35,270
S7: cool as he thought and looked uncomfortable as well and

545
00:25:35,270 --> 00:25:38,710
S7: didn't seem to kind of have everything together and. They

546
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:40,240
S7: all kind of unravel when they got to like the

547
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:41,950
S7: big smoke, which I thought was an interesting play.

548
00:25:42,130 --> 00:25:44,520
S8: Can I say, like, I know you guys are like super.

549
00:25:44,530 --> 00:25:46,990
S8: You have swallowed the mats and Kool-Aid. And I was

550
00:25:47,109 --> 00:25:50,680
S8: wearing a hoodie right now, like, you guys love medicine,

551
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,990
S8: but like, the show is trying to set him up

552
00:25:52,990 --> 00:25:57,340
S8: as a monster, right? Like, he's bullies Ibar and, like,

553
00:25:57,340 --> 00:26:01,120
S8: has clearly been harassing her. He makes a really weird

554
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,380
S8: gay joke about Kendall's numbers. He's tweeting about Holocausts like,

555
00:26:05,380 --> 00:26:07,330
S8: I know you guys really like him, but do you

556
00:26:07,330 --> 00:26:08,050
S8: think this.

557
00:26:08,260 --> 00:26:11,740
S1: Can we can we clarify this? I think we love

558
00:26:11,740 --> 00:26:14,170
S1: Alexander Scalzo. We think he's very handsome. Yes. I like

559
00:26:14,170 --> 00:26:16,030
S1: his style. I think I don't know. It's a Gucci

560
00:26:16,030 --> 00:26:18,400
S1: sort of tracksuit jacket he's wearing. It looks great. And

561
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,770
S1: I think his performance is wonderful. I think he's a monster.

562
00:26:20,770 --> 00:26:23,080
S1: I think there was a moment earlier in this show

563
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,200
S1: where I thought, okay, maybe what the writers are doing

564
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,040
S1: is sort of positioning new money, new tech as the

565
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,390
S1: sort of slightly better version of these old crazy media guys.

566
00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:37,810
S1: In hindsight, that was so naive because obviously new money,

567
00:26:37,810 --> 00:26:40,479
S1: new tech represented by the likes of Elon Musk and

568
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,810
S1: whatever is as deranged as the as the old guard.

569
00:26:43,810 --> 00:26:46,090
S1: And I think you're spot on, Mel. That is what

570
00:26:46,090 --> 00:26:48,940
S1: we are. That's what we're being shown with with Lukas Mattson.

571
00:26:49,030 --> 00:26:50,949
S8: I like I feel like you've just had to issue.

572
00:26:50,950 --> 00:26:53,560
S17: Like, I know you've kind of like confirmation. I know

573
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:54,100
S17: you've stitches up.

574
00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:57,730
S7: You've been like, so he's basically a Nazi and, you know,

575
00:26:57,730 --> 00:27:00,190
S7: he hates women and also gay men. But you guys

576
00:27:00,190 --> 00:27:03,850
S7: love him, right? No, I just for the record, I

577
00:27:03,850 --> 00:27:06,129
S7: don't like Mattson as a person, but I think the

578
00:27:06,130 --> 00:27:08,800
S7: performance is great and Alexander Skarsgard is hot. But it

579
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,469
S7: is interesting to see, you know, like that was I

580
00:27:11,470 --> 00:27:14,830
S7: just love that the scorned Ebba basically spilled the beans

581
00:27:14,830 --> 00:27:16,600
S7: on whatever's going on in India, and that was an

582
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,939
S7: amazing exchange where he was like, Maybe there could be

583
00:27:18,940 --> 00:27:22,780
S7: two Indias. He's like, How big is this? Like, you know,

584
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,090
S7: and I had a question for you both on that

585
00:27:25,090 --> 00:27:26,260
S7: because I think a lot of people will have this

586
00:27:26,260 --> 00:27:29,650
S7: question exactly what has he done? Like his subscriber base,

587
00:27:29,650 --> 00:27:32,109
S7: he's basically doubled it in India. And that's like a

588
00:27:32,109 --> 00:27:33,250
S7: huge fudging.

589
00:27:33,250 --> 00:27:35,139
S1: Yeah, I think they're sort of suggesting that maybe it's

590
00:27:35,140 --> 00:27:37,920
S1: like bots or maybe it's just not real and it's

591
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:40,330
S1: the numbers look great. And then you sort of scratch

592
00:27:40,330 --> 00:27:43,149
S1: beneath the surface in some of these developing markets and

593
00:27:43,150 --> 00:27:46,600
S1: they're just not really up to up to muster. Kendall

594
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,110
S1: ultimately decides at the end of this episode he's he's

595
00:27:50,109 --> 00:27:52,270
S1: already sort of ditch shiv. He's kind of working with

596
00:27:52,270 --> 00:27:54,640
S1: Roman a bit on this plan, decides to ditch him

597
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,700
S1: as well, goes back to our guy Frank, and says, Frank,

598
00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:00,340
S1: I've got a new idea. What if we decided to

599
00:28:00,340 --> 00:28:04,260
S1: buy Gojo instead? Which I'm going to say two things.

600
00:28:04,270 --> 00:28:08,080
S1: That one again, like, makes no sense in the context

601
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,500
S1: of whatever business world stuff is or is not going

602
00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:14,170
S1: on in this in this world of succession. But I

603
00:28:14,170 --> 00:28:16,600
S1: do love it as a twist. Like I genuinely did

604
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,820
S1: not see it coming and I don't know how to

605
00:28:18,820 --> 00:28:20,410
S1: play out and it might blow up in his face.

606
00:28:20,410 --> 00:28:23,290
S1: But I think it's a cool dynamic to inject into

607
00:28:23,290 --> 00:28:24,220
S1: where the show is at.

608
00:28:24,220 --> 00:28:26,290
S8: Yeah, me too. It also speaks to that point that

609
00:28:26,290 --> 00:28:29,290
S8: we were talking about earlier of like all of them,

610
00:28:29,290 --> 00:28:31,720
S8: they just always want to win. It's like this gamification.

611
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,030
S8: They just want to get more and more and more

612
00:28:34,030 --> 00:28:36,880
S8: and they'll never feel settled, like maybe they are all

613
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,140
S8: broken and just expanding money and power is all that

614
00:28:41,140 --> 00:28:43,510
S8: they have left to do because they don't have families.

615
00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:45,460
S8: They don't seem to have hobbies because they spend a

616
00:28:45,460 --> 00:28:48,640
S8: lot of time working. Yeah, I think you saw in

617
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,530
S8: that scene that Kendall's not just happy with saving the

618
00:28:50,530 --> 00:28:53,230
S8: company now. He needs to own another company.

619
00:28:53,230 --> 00:28:54,250
S17: Yeah, I loved that.

620
00:28:54,250 --> 00:28:58,030
S7: I thought it was, like, amazing succession, like kind of gear.

621
00:28:58,060 --> 00:28:59,200
S7: That's the thing. If you go back through the history

622
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,330
S7: of succession, like all these deals, like how many deals

623
00:29:01,330 --> 00:29:05,140
S7: have actually been done? Like, two. Maybe it's insane. But yeah,

624
00:29:05,140 --> 00:29:06,610
S7: I thought it was so great. Like when he said it,

625
00:29:06,610 --> 00:29:08,800
S7: I was like, yes, because I hadn't seen it coming.

626
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,200
S7: And it was just so on brand for Kendall and

627
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,640
S7: you know, I think he even says to Frank like,

628
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,080
S7: Let's go bigger than what Dad would have done. Like,

629
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,390
S7: it's just it's fucking relentless with these guys. Like they

630
00:29:16,390 --> 00:29:19,570
S7: just cannot be content with their, you know, insane amounts

631
00:29:19,570 --> 00:29:22,450
S7: of money. I also loved in that fight with Madison

632
00:29:22,450 --> 00:29:26,110
S7: before he decides to go reverse Viking and pillage his village,

633
00:29:26,110 --> 00:29:28,810
S7: they just trading blows again. He's like, yeah. Biggest overpay

634
00:29:28,810 --> 00:29:29,530
S7: in history.

635
00:29:29,710 --> 00:29:31,130
S17: Unbelievable prices.

636
00:29:32,090 --> 00:29:36,310
S1: Um, let's have a quick chat about the political side

637
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:38,950
S1: of things because there was another negotiation happening here where

638
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:42,250
S1: Connor was talking to Roman Roman's basically the proxy for

639
00:29:42,250 --> 00:29:45,640
S1: his good mate, Jared Minkin. Worth unpacking just in case.

640
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,590
S1: I think people are confused about what's going on. So

641
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:50,620
S1: the election is the next day. Things are being left

642
00:29:50,620 --> 00:29:53,590
S1: to the very last minute. Things are getting tight. Jared Menken,

643
00:29:53,770 --> 00:29:56,620
S1: the Republican kind of far right guy, is not doing well,

644
00:29:56,620 --> 00:29:59,530
S1: and he's worried that Connor's vote in a few key

645
00:29:59,530 --> 00:30:03,310
S1: swing states, even though it's just one, two, three, 4%,

646
00:30:03,310 --> 00:30:07,000
S1: could change the outcome because America doesn't have preferential voting.

647
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,760
S1: So if you've got two right wing candidates and Connor's

648
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,540
S1: pulling away some votes, that could end up helping the Democrats.

649
00:30:13,540 --> 00:30:18,280
S1: So Connor is being bribed, essentially with postings all around

650
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,420
S1: the world. Mogadishu being the first one I thought was amazing.

651
00:30:22,750 --> 00:30:25,900
S1: And Roman is trying to help pull him out of

652
00:30:25,900 --> 00:30:29,500
S1: the race, essentially. And Connor ultimately decides to to not

653
00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:31,990
S1: do it. He says, I'm going to give it a go.

654
00:30:31,990 --> 00:30:34,580
S1: The only person who does care about me is Willa.

655
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,430
S1: I'm going to listen to her. In a weird way,

656
00:30:36,430 --> 00:30:40,330
S1: Connor's kind of the most. Human. Emerging from all of this,

657
00:30:40,330 --> 00:30:44,860
S1: he has decided to value the one human in his life. Oh, that's.

658
00:30:44,860 --> 00:30:48,910
S8: Interesting. I, I kind of read Connor in this episode

659
00:30:48,910 --> 00:30:52,330
S8: as showing that even though he's not Shiv, Kendall or

660
00:30:52,330 --> 00:30:54,850
S8: Roman and he's not as tightly involved in Waystar as

661
00:30:54,850 --> 00:30:57,070
S8: they are, he proved in this episode that he still

662
00:30:57,070 --> 00:30:59,260
S8: has a little bit of the Roy in him in

663
00:30:59,260 --> 00:31:02,560
S8: his way that he was negotiating his posting. And also

664
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,390
S8: we haven't talked about it yet, but the way he

665
00:31:04,390 --> 00:31:06,570
S8: ran the funeral management committee, like.

666
00:31:06,580 --> 00:31:06,970
S17: It was.

667
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,190
S8: Like it was a boardroom, he's like, I sent you

668
00:31:09,190 --> 00:31:11,440
S8: out the materials. I hope you've all read it. Like,

669
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,290
S8: I actually thought we were seeing his rawness come out

670
00:31:14,290 --> 00:31:16,900
S8: at this smaller level that he's operating in.

671
00:31:17,140 --> 00:31:19,300
S1: You see, that's interesting because I feel like the smart

672
00:31:19,300 --> 00:31:21,729
S1: move would have been to take the deal. Like you're

673
00:31:21,730 --> 00:31:24,070
S1: not going to be you spent hundreds of millions of dollars.

674
00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:25,330
S1: You're going to end up with a couple of votes

675
00:31:25,330 --> 00:31:27,100
S1: and be a nobody. May as well get a nice

676
00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:30,730
S1: ambassadorial posting. So in my mind, it was like, he's

677
00:31:30,730 --> 00:31:33,820
S1: not a good business guy, partly because he just wants

678
00:31:33,820 --> 00:31:37,150
S1: to like have a nice relationship with his wife, which

679
00:31:37,150 --> 00:31:39,160
S1: is something that none of the other characters have been

680
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,650
S1: able to do. But I think your, your your kind

681
00:31:41,650 --> 00:31:43,060
S1: of point stands as well.

682
00:31:43,060 --> 00:31:45,370
S8: And but like also, remember, he made Wheeler kind of

683
00:31:45,370 --> 00:31:47,530
S8: get married where she didn't want to get married because

684
00:31:47,530 --> 00:31:50,140
S8: he wanted to optimize their wedding for a political stunt

685
00:31:50,140 --> 00:31:53,020
S8: for the election. So I think he's he might not

686
00:31:53,020 --> 00:31:55,060
S8: be good at business, but I think he is just

687
00:31:55,060 --> 00:31:57,310
S8: as kind of ruthless as as the others.

688
00:31:57,310 --> 00:31:57,670
S17: Yeah, I think.

689
00:31:57,670 --> 00:32:00,070
S7: He wants to, like, have his nice life, but it's

690
00:32:00,070 --> 00:32:03,010
S7: only like been facilitated by his ruthlessness because he's marrying

691
00:32:03,010 --> 00:32:05,200
S7: someone who essentially is only with him because of who

692
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,050
S7: he is and the circumstances he's able to provide for her.

693
00:32:08,050 --> 00:32:10,750
S7: But he's definitely the most human. And yeah, he probably

694
00:32:10,750 --> 00:32:13,420
S7: should have taken that Somalia gig because I don't know

695
00:32:13,420 --> 00:32:14,890
S7: how much better it's going to get for him.

696
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,730
S1: Okay, let's talk about our best lines. I feel like

697
00:32:20,730 --> 00:32:22,290
S1: there were quite a few this time. I feel like

698
00:32:22,290 --> 00:32:24,570
S1: the last couple we've sort of struggled, but there are

699
00:32:24,570 --> 00:32:27,450
S1: a few that I had to choose from. I went

700
00:32:27,450 --> 00:32:29,430
S1: with a Connor one, actually, which I don't think I've

701
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:34,770
S1: ever done before, but as he's negotiating with Roman about

702
00:32:34,770 --> 00:32:37,830
S1: where he wants to be, Ambassador Roman floats the idea

703
00:32:37,830 --> 00:32:42,000
S1: of Oman and Connor unveils the fact he's got a

704
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,970
S1: bit of knowledge about the Middle East. He says Oman. Oman.

705
00:32:45,870 --> 00:32:49,590
S3: Yeah. Poor man's Saudi Arabia or rich man's Yemen?

706
00:32:49,890 --> 00:32:53,670
S1: Poor man. Saudi Arabia. Rich man's Yemen. It's such a

707
00:32:53,670 --> 00:32:57,270
S1: weirdly specific bit of knowledge to have about where Oman's

708
00:32:57,270 --> 00:33:01,620
S1: GDP sits vis a vis other Middle Eastern countries. I

709
00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:04,470
S1: loved it because it was so unexpected. Mel, what do

710
00:33:04,470 --> 00:33:05,030
S1: you have?

711
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,410
S8: I also went with Econoline. I thought there was so

712
00:33:07,410 --> 00:33:11,010
S8: much good content and this part was such like we

713
00:33:11,010 --> 00:33:13,410
S8: were talking before about formulas and succession episodes and the

714
00:33:13,410 --> 00:33:16,380
S8: comedic relief, and this just brought so much to the

715
00:33:16,380 --> 00:33:19,260
S8: episode and was so well done. This whole shtick. Yes,

716
00:33:19,260 --> 00:33:22,140
S8: mine was kind of discussing with Roman what ambassador role

717
00:33:22,140 --> 00:33:25,200
S8: he might take and lots of floated North Korea. Can

718
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,840
S8: he have nukes in the role? Can I get to

719
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,200
S8: how do I get to Europe? And someone suggests Slovakia

720
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:32,730
S8: and Slovenia and he says.

721
00:33:33,420 --> 00:33:36,360
S3: Yeah, I think I'm a no on the slos.

722
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,170
S8: I'm a no on the slos. And it's it's so brutal.

723
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:40,650
S17: Yeah.

724
00:33:41,010 --> 00:33:42,870
S7: That was great. Also love. That was that Connor's like

725
00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:44,520
S7: advisor we've seen for the first time he looks like

726
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,980
S7: the colonel from K Yeah it was that guy because.

727
00:33:47,130 --> 00:33:49,320
S8: He said at one point he was like, I don't

728
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,900
S8: know about that my liege. It's like I didn't get

729
00:33:51,900 --> 00:33:52,290
S8: this dude.

730
00:33:52,620 --> 00:33:55,260
S7: Is cut price like advisor you've got man he needs

731
00:33:55,260 --> 00:33:55,560
S7: to go.

732
00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:56,910
S17: Invited to this party. Yeah.

733
00:33:56,910 --> 00:33:58,440
S7: Tell me the secret herbs and spices, bro.

734
00:34:00,540 --> 00:34:02,370
S1: Thomas, give us your best. Yes.

735
00:34:02,790 --> 00:34:04,739
S7: Again, I think the last few weeks I've been like,

736
00:34:04,740 --> 00:34:06,780
S7: the writing sucks. I hate succession. But this week there

737
00:34:06,780 --> 00:34:10,319
S7: were so many good lines to pick from. I laughed

738
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:11,670
S7: a lot in this episode, but the one I went

739
00:34:11,670 --> 00:34:14,370
S7: with was from Mattson. He and Tom are having a conversation.

740
00:34:14,370 --> 00:34:17,940
S7: Tom is very obviously sucking up to Lucas and then

741
00:34:17,940 --> 00:34:21,270
S7: Shiv comes along and asks What's going on? And Mattson says, Hey.

742
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,489
S4: I'm about to take a shit in your husband's mouth

743
00:34:23,489 --> 00:34:25,140
S4: and I'm pretty sure he's going to tell me it

744
00:34:25,140 --> 00:34:26,029
S4: tastes like Pokémon.

745
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,060
S13: No, no, I'm not.

746
00:34:28,380 --> 00:34:30,870
S7: Which I thought was amazing. Just because you know that

747
00:34:30,989 --> 00:34:33,419
S7: Mattson does have that kind of Swedish coldness where, like,

748
00:34:33,420 --> 00:34:35,640
S7: he doesn't have any time for small talk and, like,

749
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:36,960
S7: the type of small talk that we all just like,

750
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,640
S7: we know it's happening, but you go with it. He

751
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,100
S7: just like, does not fool with it. So I thought

752
00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:42,810
S7: it was amazing that he did that and Tom was

753
00:34:42,810 --> 00:34:44,910
S7: very obviously sucking up to him. And yeah, that made

754
00:34:44,910 --> 00:34:45,420
S7: me laugh.

755
00:34:47,550 --> 00:34:50,459
S1: All right. Fun fact, Connor, which you've fully just taken

756
00:34:50,460 --> 00:34:53,370
S1: away from me. Thomas. It's now just your fun fact. Connor,

757
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,230
S1: what have you got for us this week?

758
00:34:55,350 --> 00:34:56,430
S7: Well, I think it's pretty clear that I am the

759
00:34:56,430 --> 00:34:58,590
S7: most fun one, and so I should probably continue to

760
00:34:58,590 --> 00:35:01,380
S7: deliver this fact. Look, this is a good one this week.

761
00:35:01,469 --> 00:35:03,540
S7: We kind of touched on it earlier, but Tailgate Party

762
00:35:03,540 --> 00:35:06,240
S7: opened with Shivs breakfast, which as we said, was a

763
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:12,630
S7: great breakfast protein and nutritious. It was kind of perfectly balanced. But,

764
00:35:12,780 --> 00:35:14,700
S7: you know, there was there was a focus on food

765
00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:16,410
S7: and wine in this episode. Like we got a really

766
00:35:16,410 --> 00:35:18,750
S7: nice shot of her breakfast. We talked about the wine.

767
00:35:18,750 --> 00:35:20,580
S7: Tom makes it known that he wants the German wine

768
00:35:20,580 --> 00:35:22,410
S7: pushed its light and fruit and we.

769
00:35:22,410 --> 00:35:25,140
S1: See the little flags being put into those mini burgers.

770
00:35:25,170 --> 00:35:27,540
S17: It's a lot of food sprinkled on the little chips

771
00:35:27,540 --> 00:35:29,669
S17: and flutes. It was at the forefront.

772
00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:31,380
S7: It was clear and it was obvious. And I just

773
00:35:31,380 --> 00:35:33,120
S7: thought it was interesting that this episode was written by

774
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,910
S7: Will Tracy, who is known for the Menu, which was

775
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:37,529
S7: a kind of comedy horror film which a lot of

776
00:35:37,530 --> 00:35:40,800
S7: us loved last year. It's like an edgy satire of

777
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,790
S7: the fine dining industry. And Ralph Fiennes plays this kind

778
00:35:44,790 --> 00:35:47,580
S7: of awful chef who's obsessed with food. And there was

779
00:35:47,580 --> 00:35:50,400
S7: a big food motif in this episode. So that's one

780
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,970
S7: little crossover for you. But that's not where things stop, guys.

781
00:35:53,969 --> 00:35:57,000
S7: As luck would have it, the menu was directed by

782
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,680
S7: none other than Mark.

783
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,980
S1: Mylod, who's a regular director of succession as.

784
00:36:01,980 --> 00:36:04,529
S7: Well and directs pretty much most of the best episodes,

785
00:36:04,530 --> 00:36:07,290
S7: including episode three, Logan's Death. So yeah, there was a

786
00:36:07,290 --> 00:36:11,430
S7: big kind of crossover menu succession situation happening in this episode.

787
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,250
S1: This episode is actually directed by Shari Springer Berman and

788
00:36:14,250 --> 00:36:17,759
S1: Robert Puccini, who directed one of my favorite old time episodes,

789
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,210
S1: Safe Room, When like the 18 offices gets into a lockdown,

790
00:36:21,210 --> 00:36:24,540
S1: another really internal episode where everyone's just sort of jammed

791
00:36:24,540 --> 00:36:26,940
S1: and stuck in a room and has to kind of

792
00:36:26,940 --> 00:36:28,500
S1: figure it out. And a lot of truths come to

793
00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:32,370
S1: the fore. Yeah, really great directing in this episode two.

794
00:36:34,750 --> 00:36:39,520
S1: Time for jury watch. This is a vindication of our

795
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,810
S1: decision to follow Jerry around because she has decided to

796
00:36:43,810 --> 00:36:47,710
S1: blow everything up. She's blackmailing Roman, one of those rare

797
00:36:47,710 --> 00:36:51,520
S1: moments where things that happen in the most immediate episode

798
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,940
S1: prior actually have a tangible consequence on the next one,

799
00:36:54,940 --> 00:36:57,430
S1: she says, You know, you fired me. I've got pictures

800
00:36:57,430 --> 00:36:59,860
S1: of your dick. I'm taking you for hundreds of millions

801
00:36:59,860 --> 00:37:04,210
S1: of dollars. And my narrative really interesting stuff from her.

802
00:37:04,210 --> 00:37:06,460
S1: Do you think it was the right move, guys? Should

803
00:37:06,460 --> 00:37:09,700
S1: she have accepted Roman's kind of apology and gotten away

804
00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:12,130
S1: in or should she have left earlier? How do you

805
00:37:12,130 --> 00:37:14,770
S1: how do you back or rate what Jerry did this episode?

806
00:37:14,770 --> 00:37:17,050
S8: I think it's a great move from Jerry. I think

807
00:37:17,050 --> 00:37:20,529
S8: this ship is sinking. The kids are running the joint

808
00:37:20,530 --> 00:37:23,259
S8: and to get out is a smart move. And if

809
00:37:23,260 --> 00:37:25,750
S8: she doesn't get out, she has shown how much power

810
00:37:25,750 --> 00:37:28,270
S8: she has and they're going to have to win her back.

811
00:37:28,270 --> 00:37:30,670
S8: And also, I think not that it's on Jerry to

812
00:37:30,700 --> 00:37:34,180
S8: to school Roman, but I mean, I love that Roman

813
00:37:34,180 --> 00:37:36,370
S8: was accusing her of not respecting him. And then in

814
00:37:36,370 --> 00:37:39,250
S8: this episode, he's like, Oh, I was just feeling fiery ish.

815
00:37:39,250 --> 00:37:41,770
S8: You can't take what I say seriously. Which is exactly

816
00:37:41,770 --> 00:37:44,830
S8: why why he fired her. But I think she also

817
00:37:44,830 --> 00:37:47,620
S8: needed to stand up to Roman and and, you know,

818
00:37:47,620 --> 00:37:50,200
S8: respect herself. So I think a good honor. She can

819
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,850
S8: go join Carl on the Greek island.

820
00:37:51,940 --> 00:37:54,940
S7: 100%. This was. Yeah, this was perfect for Jerry. She's

821
00:37:54,940 --> 00:37:57,940
S7: got Roman, like, by the balls, like, literally and the penis.

822
00:37:58,030 --> 00:38:02,230
S1: And I've got so many photos of your genitalia.

823
00:38:02,230 --> 00:38:05,020
S7: Yeah, exactly. No, that was great. I love the fact

824
00:38:05,020 --> 00:38:06,580
S7: that she says to him, you know, I've retained personal

825
00:38:06,580 --> 00:38:09,279
S7: reputation management. Like, again, and I agree with what you

826
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,670
S7: said was it's nice to see like that something big

827
00:38:12,670 --> 00:38:14,770
S7: that happened in the previous episode didn't just kind of

828
00:38:14,770 --> 00:38:16,540
S7: get the TV treatment and was like wiped clean. It

829
00:38:16,540 --> 00:38:18,820
S7: was like, No, actually you fired me and now I'm

830
00:38:18,820 --> 00:38:20,920
S7: going to make you pay. And if anyone has the

831
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,230
S7: leverage to be like, I want hundreds of millions of dollars,

832
00:38:23,230 --> 00:38:25,600
S7: I want to control the narrative. Like when we see

833
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,110
S7: this happening all the time with like high profile firings

834
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,370
S7: at these type of companies, like who controls the narrative

835
00:38:30,370 --> 00:38:32,830
S7: is so important. And, you know, Jerry has all the

836
00:38:32,830 --> 00:38:35,109
S7: cards in her favor. So yeah, it's it is it

837
00:38:35,110 --> 00:38:38,109
S7: is kind of satisfying for someone. All of us, we

838
00:38:38,110 --> 00:38:40,330
S7: love Jerry. It's satisfying to see her be like, I

839
00:38:40,330 --> 00:38:43,360
S7: have my agency. Fuck you guys. I've got the hard

840
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,050
S7: drive full of your dick pics and let's party.

841
00:38:47,050 --> 00:38:47,770
S17: Also, why is.

842
00:38:47,770 --> 00:38:50,770
S8: Romans so bad at like reading people? Like he just

843
00:38:50,770 --> 00:38:54,279
S8: doesn't know how to change his approach to different people

844
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,370
S8: like he did with with Connor. He. He just completely

845
00:38:57,370 --> 00:39:00,069
S8: misread the room there. He did the same with Jerry.

846
00:39:00,070 --> 00:39:02,140
S8: Like he. And that's probably why he's not going to

847
00:39:02,140 --> 00:39:04,870
S8: be great at this game because he doesn't know what

848
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:07,060
S8: people need or want from him.

849
00:39:07,060 --> 00:39:09,130
S1: He compares himself to his dad and says, You know,

850
00:39:09,130 --> 00:39:11,620
S1: Dad fired people all the time. It's like, yeah, again

851
00:39:11,620 --> 00:39:13,660
S1: he did. But he knew how to do it in

852
00:39:13,660 --> 00:39:16,210
S1: a way that was sharp and he knew how to

853
00:39:16,210 --> 00:39:18,009
S1: be very clear when it was real, when it was

854
00:39:18,010 --> 00:39:22,610
S1: a joke. And he never, ever, ever. Fucked around with,

855
00:39:22,610 --> 00:39:24,860
S1: like the Franks, the Kyles and the Jerries because he

856
00:39:24,860 --> 00:39:26,840
S1: knew that they knew where the bodies are buried. Exactly.

857
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,810
S1: And these guys have just turned over that applecart. They're

858
00:39:29,810 --> 00:39:31,609
S1: in a lot of strife. I mean, that was a

859
00:39:31,610 --> 00:39:34,549
S1: big miss for Rome in this episode. He had like

860
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:37,460
S1: a small win. I guess he managed to get the

861
00:39:37,460 --> 00:39:40,879
S1: dirt on Mattson, the stuff about the blood bricks, which

862
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,850
S1: then Kendall, you know, kind of used and leveraged with

863
00:39:44,060 --> 00:39:46,310
S1: and managed to get more information out of it. But overall,

864
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:49,430
S1: I feel like this this wasn't great for him. That

865
00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:54,410
S1: brings us quite neatly to winners and losers. Thomas, why

866
00:39:54,410 --> 00:39:55,209
S1: don't you go first?

867
00:39:55,219 --> 00:39:56,560
S7: Yeah, coming off the back of that, I'm like, oh,

868
00:39:56,570 --> 00:39:57,980
S7: should I change my loser? But I'm going to stick

869
00:39:57,980 --> 00:40:00,710
S7: with it. I think Kendall was the big winner. I

870
00:40:00,710 --> 00:40:04,540
S7: gave him my three points. He gave another good speech

871
00:40:04,540 --> 00:40:06,669
S7: when he kind of like Cheers to Logan, but also

872
00:40:06,670 --> 00:40:09,100
S7: just the way he handled himself. He got the information

873
00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:13,750
S7: about Madison. He leveraged that to basically find a way

874
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:15,130
S7: to blow up the deal, which he wants to blow up.

875
00:40:15,130 --> 00:40:18,040
S7: And now he's also like making plans to potentially have

876
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,589
S7: this huge move. So I thought Kendall perform really well.

877
00:40:20,590 --> 00:40:22,840
S7: Greg had actually a pretty good episode. First time I've

878
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,750
S7: seen we've seen Greg be, I think like more than

879
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:30,339
S7: just Comic relief in this season. He kind of Madison

880
00:40:30,340 --> 00:40:32,380
S7: has clearly hated him and Greg managed to win him

881
00:40:32,380 --> 00:40:34,750
S7: over which will be important if things fall that way.

882
00:40:35,930 --> 00:40:39,590
S7: And then Tom. I gave him one. He's still hanging

883
00:40:39,590 --> 00:40:40,129
S7: in there.

884
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,420
S8: Is that a pity point?

885
00:40:41,690 --> 00:40:44,360
S7: It's kind of a pity point. He's still hanging in there. And,

886
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,160
S7: you know, he did make some inroads with maths. And

887
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:47,779
S7: so I gave him one point and my big fat

888
00:40:47,780 --> 00:40:51,319
S7: loser was Shiv, because I thought, unfortunately, you know, she's

889
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,149
S7: now nailed herself to the maths and cross, which could

890
00:40:53,150 --> 00:40:55,489
S7: be a sinking ship, but she's also fucking the family,

891
00:40:55,489 --> 00:40:57,590
S7: which could be a sinking ship. She's, she's kind of

892
00:40:57,590 --> 00:41:00,110
S7: like all at sea and I don't like how things

893
00:41:00,110 --> 00:41:00,680
S7: look for her.

894
00:41:00,770 --> 00:41:02,660
S1: Yeah, I really love the Shiv arc. It's like she

895
00:41:02,660 --> 00:41:05,090
S1: hit rock bottom, she climbed away back up to the top,

896
00:41:05,090 --> 00:41:07,399
S1: and now she's at rock bottom again. Or even even

897
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,030
S1: kind of worse because she's alienated her brothers. She's betrayed them.

898
00:41:11,030 --> 00:41:13,730
S1: She's realised Matheson's whole thing is a house of cards.

899
00:41:13,730 --> 00:41:16,400
S1: And Tom, the one person that if she wanted to,

900
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,040
S1: she could use as a reliable ally. She's just blown

901
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,980
S1: up at him as well. A really, really big L

902
00:41:21,980 --> 00:41:26,520
S1: for Shiv. Yeah. Kendall gets my three. Even though I

903
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,110
S1: kind of still think things are not going to end

904
00:41:28,110 --> 00:41:30,660
S1: well for him. He did well in this episode. He

905
00:41:30,660 --> 00:41:33,509
S1: stood up for himself, for Madison. He's got a big

906
00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:36,600
S1: new grand plan to take over the company. Connor gets

907
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,260
S1: my two. He's getting a couple of percentage points. He's

908
00:41:40,260 --> 00:41:44,640
S1: negotiating with the potential new president of the US and

909
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,910
S1: he's standing up for himself. Greg, I gave one for

910
00:41:47,910 --> 00:41:51,030
S1: similar reasons to you, Thomas. I like Greg in this

911
00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:53,100
S1: episode more than I have in the last couple. He's

912
00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:56,100
S1: he's funny, but he's also, you know, he's taking the

913
00:41:56,100 --> 00:41:59,430
S1: lead at ATN. Like he's showing some weird corporate, you know,

914
00:41:59,430 --> 00:42:03,630
S1: brutal skills. He's working for Kendall and getting Kendall the

915
00:42:03,630 --> 00:42:07,410
S1: results he wants. And he's also managed to get inroads

916
00:42:07,410 --> 00:42:11,520
S1: to Madison. So good stuff for Greg Mell rounded out

917
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:12,050
S1: for us.

918
00:42:12,060 --> 00:42:16,090
S8: I gave Conner three points. Because you don't know what's

919
00:42:16,090 --> 00:42:19,000
S8: going to happen at the election tomorrow and maybe he

920
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,150
S8: will get his 1%. But if he doesn't, he's in

921
00:42:22,150 --> 00:42:24,700
S8: the he's in a position of power. He's negotiating a

922
00:42:24,700 --> 00:42:27,549
S8: great ambassador role. He's got the house in New York.

923
00:42:27,550 --> 00:42:29,980
S8: He's setting up a great funeral. So and he's got

924
00:42:29,980 --> 00:42:32,290
S8: a very supportive wife and no one else has that.

925
00:42:32,290 --> 00:42:35,259
S8: So three points for Connor. I gave two for Jerry

926
00:42:35,260 --> 00:42:37,420
S8: for the reasons we were saying earlier. She stood up

927
00:42:37,420 --> 00:42:40,060
S8: for herself. She made a power move to get out

928
00:42:40,060 --> 00:42:42,549
S8: of there. And I think she's going to really enjoy

929
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:46,780
S8: post Waystar life. And Greg got one point because I

930
00:42:46,780 --> 00:42:50,500
S8: think he started that episode with Mattson calling him Gary,

931
00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:54,940
S8: and he ended that episode with Mattson calling him Greg.

932
00:42:54,940 --> 00:42:57,520
S8: So I think that's a pretty big achievement for him.

933
00:42:58,310 --> 00:43:02,210
S8: Any loser loser went to Mattson because I guess for

934
00:43:02,210 --> 00:43:04,219
S8: the reasons we were talking about earlier, but also he

935
00:43:04,219 --> 00:43:06,380
S8: was in this room of 40 of the most important

936
00:43:06,380 --> 00:43:10,430
S8: people in New York, and he kind of showed the

937
00:43:10,430 --> 00:43:12,830
S8: reality of himself when he was kind of making that

938
00:43:12,830 --> 00:43:16,760
S8: gay joke. And when he was talking about the numbers,

939
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:18,110
S8: I don't know. I think he showed a lot of

940
00:43:18,110 --> 00:43:20,989
S8: himself to some very important people in New York, which

941
00:43:20,989 --> 00:43:22,730
S8: was probably not a great move for him.

942
00:43:22,910 --> 00:43:25,100
S1: The main shift in our rankings is that Kendall is

943
00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:27,620
S1: shot up. He's in second place, only a couple of

944
00:43:27,620 --> 00:43:31,430
S1: points behind Tom. If Mel, you'd been normal like Thomas

945
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:33,620
S1: and I and giving Kendall a couple of points that

946
00:43:33,620 --> 00:43:36,440
S1: he clearly deserved, then I think Kendall could have overtaken

947
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:37,219
S1: Tom for.

948
00:43:37,580 --> 00:43:38,150
S17: A serious.

949
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:41,030
S7: Anti Kendall agenda here. And it's not you are literally

950
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:41,989
S7: cooking these books over here.

951
00:43:41,989 --> 00:43:47,130
S1: I feel like I want the numbers are being fudged. Okay,

952
00:43:47,130 --> 00:43:50,040
S1: let's get into predictions for next week. As I've alluded

953
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,540
S1: to a few times on this episode, and I think

954
00:43:51,540 --> 00:43:54,330
S1: I predicted it last week, I think Kendall's getting arrested.

955
00:43:54,330 --> 00:43:56,430
S1: I feel like it's got to happen. He is just

956
00:43:56,430 --> 00:44:00,180
S1: playing with fire and there are 100 to 200 new

957
00:44:00,180 --> 00:44:04,320
S1: SEC violations every episode. Thomas, what have you got?

958
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,800
S7: Yeah, I think that there was so much election chat

959
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,750
S7: in this episode and so much of focus on it

960
00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:12,509
S7: was election eve. You know, we know succession loves to

961
00:44:12,510 --> 00:44:14,759
S7: cherry pick from the real world and we've seen what

962
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,860
S7: happened with Fox and the election and how much drama

963
00:44:16,860 --> 00:44:18,990
S7: that caused. So while they all kind of why do

964
00:44:18,989 --> 00:44:21,180
S7: we think we're watching a story about the fight for

965
00:44:21,180 --> 00:44:23,219
S7: the future of the company? I have a feeling that

966
00:44:23,219 --> 00:44:25,200
S7: maybe it'll end with the company falling on its sword

967
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,570
S7: and failing to read the room. Like I have a

968
00:44:27,570 --> 00:44:30,300
S7: feeling that the future of Waystar and the merger and

969
00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:33,420
S7: everything might be deeply intertwined with the result of this

970
00:44:33,420 --> 00:44:36,960
S7: election and and how involved ATN is in that. Yeah, super.

971
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,630
S1: Interesting. Mel, what have you got for your prediction?

972
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,960
S8: I'm hoping that Conor gets elected and the siblings are

973
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,200
S8: going to have to negotiate with him as a power

974
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,470
S8: player in Washington to keep the company alive. And all

975
00:44:49,469 --> 00:44:52,770
S8: of a sudden, Connor becomes this kind of ultimate in

976
00:44:52,770 --> 00:44:55,770
S8: this ultimate position of power. So we've got that prediction.

977
00:44:55,770 --> 00:44:58,920
S1: I'm also thinking you're betraying your deep lack of knowledge

978
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:00,840
S1: about how the US electoral system works.

979
00:45:01,110 --> 00:45:02,190
S17: I feel like that.

980
00:45:02,790 --> 00:45:05,670
S8: But also that 1% he'll be president.

981
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:06,270
S17: Are they ever.

982
00:45:06,270 --> 00:45:07,860
S7: Going to bury fucking Logan?

983
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:09,210
S17: Well, I hope.

984
00:45:09,210 --> 00:45:12,629
S8: That Roman, because you know how the episode ended with Roman.

985
00:45:12,930 --> 00:45:13,650
S17: Saying he wants to.

986
00:45:13,650 --> 00:45:16,200
S8: Do the eulogy. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited. I'm so excited

987
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:17,820
S8: for that speech. I think it's going to go down

988
00:45:17,820 --> 00:45:18,180
S8: as one of.

989
00:45:18,180 --> 00:45:19,560
S17: The great ten episodes when the.

990
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,100
S7: Funeral is. Seriously, the guy must be like starting to decompose.

991
00:45:23,580 --> 00:45:25,500
S8: Is keeping him in the fridge because Connor's like, I

992
00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:27,060
S8: go and visit him all the time.

993
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:29,279
S7: I love Roman's. Like, I don't want to go in like,

994
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:30,150
S7: feed the birds.

995
00:45:32,219 --> 00:45:35,970
S1: Before we wrap this episode, Thomas Last week you spoke

996
00:45:35,969 --> 00:45:39,060
S1: to Peter Friedman, who played Frank on the podcast. This

997
00:45:39,060 --> 00:45:41,820
S1: week we've got an interview you did with David Rash,

998
00:45:41,820 --> 00:45:43,860
S1: who plays Carl. To be honest, we probably should have

999
00:45:43,860 --> 00:45:45,330
S1: swapped those around if I had thought about it a

1000
00:45:45,330 --> 00:45:48,660
S1: bit more because Carl wasn't in this episode at all,

1001
00:45:48,660 --> 00:45:51,120
S1: but he had a great moment calling bullshit on Can

1002
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,250
S1: in the Living Plus app. How is your chat with

1003
00:45:53,250 --> 00:45:53,939
S1: David Rossi?

1004
00:45:53,940 --> 00:45:56,130
S7: Yeah man, it's good to march with these emperor penguins

1005
00:45:56,340 --> 00:45:58,890
S7: finding fun to catch up with them. Oh no, it

1006
00:45:58,890 --> 00:46:02,340
S7: was amazing. David and Peter are both weirdly like Frank

1007
00:46:02,340 --> 00:46:05,100
S7: and Carl. Like they're right. The way they speak, their mannerisms.

1008
00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:07,800
S7: It felt very strange to talk to them. But this

1009
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,300
S7: is a really interesting chat, I think. I hope you

1010
00:46:09,300 --> 00:46:11,970
S7: guys enjoy it. He tells some amazing stories and we

1011
00:46:11,969 --> 00:46:15,600
S7: talk a lot about his favorite slash most excruciating moment

1012
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,730
S7: to film, which may not surprise anyone, but it's boring.

1013
00:46:17,730 --> 00:46:20,399
S7: On the floor. He tells a story about trying to

1014
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,230
S7: watch that episode with his son. So yeah, hope you

1015
00:46:22,230 --> 00:46:22,830
S7: guys enjoy.

1016
00:46:23,010 --> 00:46:25,560
S1: Thomas and Mel. Thank you again. Next week we're going

1017
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,560
S1: to be living under a new regime, new president.

1018
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,049
S7: Looking forward to it. Can't wait to live under whoever wins.

1019
00:46:31,050 --> 00:46:31,920
S8: President Connor.

1020
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,470
S7: You know, it's been interesting to to engage with this

1021
00:46:41,469 --> 00:46:44,260
S7: show so much like people online seem to be really

1022
00:46:44,260 --> 00:46:48,069
S7: thinking that Karl is having one of the best seasons.

1023
00:46:48,070 --> 00:46:51,310
S7: Like people are really enjoying your character and what you're

1024
00:46:51,310 --> 00:46:53,890
S7: doing with him. I guess for you as someone who's

1025
00:46:53,890 --> 00:46:56,290
S7: played this guy for years now, when you see the

1026
00:46:56,290 --> 00:46:58,420
S7: scripts for this final season where you're like, okay, there's

1027
00:46:58,420 --> 00:47:01,330
S7: something really different for me here now.

1028
00:47:01,690 --> 00:47:03,640
S4: Well, I don't think it was different. It was just

1029
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,950
S4: a little bit more of the same, you know. But I,

1030
00:47:06,969 --> 00:47:08,859
S4: you know, I'm very grateful to be here. This is

1031
00:47:08,860 --> 00:47:12,489
S4: just it's turned into this sort of international event. And

1032
00:47:13,060 --> 00:47:15,160
S4: I'm a very lucky person.

1033
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,520
S7: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I guess you could never

1034
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,710
S7: kind of predict when a show is going to strike

1035
00:47:20,710 --> 00:47:23,950
S7: a chord in this way. And succession has really turned

1036
00:47:23,950 --> 00:47:25,060
S7: into something bigger than.

1037
00:47:25,060 --> 00:47:26,860
S4: No, it's there. I think everybody is surprised. As a

1038
00:47:26,860 --> 00:47:31,300
S4: matter of fact, after the very first season, Jesse said

1039
00:47:31,300 --> 00:47:34,690
S4: to me, he said, You know, David, you know, sorry

1040
00:47:34,690 --> 00:47:36,400
S4: to have you didn't have more to do, but you

1041
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,160
S4: never know. It could be a second season.

1042
00:47:39,850 --> 00:47:42,100
S7: And now here you are all these years later.

1043
00:47:42,100 --> 00:47:43,900
S4: Yeah, here we are at the end.

1044
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:47,680
S7: And it's been an interesting, I guess, arc for, you know,

1045
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:51,009
S7: the gray beards, Frank, Jerry and Karl. You know it's

1046
00:47:51,219 --> 00:47:54,730
S7: they've been this constant in succession from the minute the

1047
00:47:54,730 --> 00:47:58,300
S7: show started but we never really get a lot about them.

1048
00:47:58,300 --> 00:48:00,640
S7: And then slowly this season we've started to kind of

1049
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,000
S7: learn a bit more. And and do you feel like

1050
00:48:04,420 --> 00:48:07,180
S7: I mean, yeah, like it's clear these are the serious

1051
00:48:07,180 --> 00:48:09,940
S7: people that Logan wanted, really, even though he kind of

1052
00:48:09,940 --> 00:48:13,480
S7: often derided them. They are there still. They're always there.

1053
00:48:13,660 --> 00:48:16,509
S4: He's a grouch, you know, He's like that. But so

1054
00:48:16,510 --> 00:48:19,390
S4: am I. So, you know, I'm I'm I'm on to him.

1055
00:48:19,390 --> 00:48:25,420
S4: And yeah, you know, we we are very serious, well connected,

1056
00:48:25,420 --> 00:48:31,330
S4: experienced business people. And the, you know, the kids are

1057
00:48:31,330 --> 00:48:36,760
S4: overprivileged with a very inflated sense of their own ability

1058
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:41,710
S4: and self-worth and and they've been abused by their father.

1059
00:48:41,710 --> 00:48:45,610
S4: And that's what you see. And so the question this

1060
00:48:45,940 --> 00:48:52,390
S4: season is how much will we let them hurt us? Yes,

1061
00:48:52,390 --> 00:48:54,460
S4: I would like it to be not at all.

1062
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,219
S7: And for someone like you, you know, you've obviously had

1063
00:48:57,219 --> 00:48:59,930
S7: this really long career both on stage and in film

1064
00:48:59,930 --> 00:49:02,290
S7: and TV. Like, how do you approach a character like Carl,

1065
00:49:02,290 --> 00:49:04,750
S7: who you probably don't you know, we don't get a

1066
00:49:04,750 --> 00:49:06,940
S7: lot of backstory. We don't know a lot about him.

1067
00:49:06,940 --> 00:49:08,500
S7: How do you kind of look to fit him into

1068
00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:09,190
S7: this world?

1069
00:49:09,969 --> 00:49:12,880
S4: Well, the first thing that Jesse said to me when

1070
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,490
S4: I showed up the first day, I said, Who am I?

1071
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:20,260
S4: And he said, Well, you're a shark. So already we

1072
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,469
S4: you know, it's a cutthroat business. And I guess my

1073
00:49:23,469 --> 00:49:27,850
S4: affection for Logan is for his business sense. You know,

1074
00:49:27,850 --> 00:49:30,910
S4: I mean, he was a in terms of the children,

1075
00:49:31,030 --> 00:49:37,510
S4: he was a terrible, terrible father, a brilliant businessman. So

1076
00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:40,600
S4: I am in the business sense, he can do no

1077
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,120
S4: wrong for me. I mean, you know, I see him

1078
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,670
S4: go through this world and he makes all the right decisions.

1079
00:49:45,910 --> 00:49:49,810
S4: Sometimes he goes from his gut, sometimes he doesn't. We confer.

1080
00:49:49,810 --> 00:49:51,850
S4: I mean, that's you know, you have to remember that

1081
00:49:51,850 --> 00:49:56,800
S4: there's a world that doesn't appear right to you. But

1082
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,740
S4: while everything else is happening, I'm having meetings with Logan

1083
00:49:59,739 --> 00:50:02,800
S4: all the time, you know, coming to me for advice

1084
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,460
S4: about this and that, and he's a grump and he's

1085
00:50:06,460 --> 00:50:10,450
S4: a grouch. And, you know, I don't like getting stung,

1086
00:50:10,900 --> 00:50:14,290
S4: but what the hell? You know, I make a lot

1087
00:50:14,290 --> 00:50:14,800
S4: of money.

1088
00:50:14,980 --> 00:50:17,080
S7: Yeah, well, that's the thing, I think. And that's that's

1089
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,930
S7: what I often find thinking about when I watch succession

1090
00:50:19,930 --> 00:50:22,750
S7: is like, there's so much of this world that's taking

1091
00:50:22,750 --> 00:50:25,569
S7: place off the screen that you don't see. And that

1092
00:50:25,570 --> 00:50:28,750
S7: context is important. Like, you know, you only see 10%

1093
00:50:28,750 --> 00:50:31,390
S7: of the meetings, 10% of the conversations. Like, you know,

1094
00:50:31,390 --> 00:50:33,190
S7: we see two minutes on a plane of what is

1095
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:36,040
S7: a 16 hour plane ride that these people are spending together.

1096
00:50:36,130 --> 00:50:38,890
S7: So like, there's all this it's a world where you're

1097
00:50:38,890 --> 00:50:40,390
S7: only getting a glimpse, really?

1098
00:50:40,540 --> 00:50:44,140
S4: Well, I think you can tell. I mean, Jesse's interest,

1099
00:50:44,140 --> 00:50:46,540
S4: you can just tell from the scripts he's interested in

1100
00:50:46,540 --> 00:50:49,870
S4: the kids is what he's interested in. I mean, he

1101
00:50:49,870 --> 00:50:52,780
S4: doesn't do this to like, you know, I mean, Jesse,

1102
00:50:53,410 --> 00:50:55,390
S4: what can I tell you? I don't know. I mean,

1103
00:50:55,390 --> 00:50:58,300
S4: I think all kudos, you know. Yes. Everybody said it's

1104
00:50:58,300 --> 00:51:02,140
S4: a good a good season for Carl. All kudos go

1105
00:51:02,140 --> 00:51:06,460
S4: to Jesse because I didn't write it. Okay. And I

1106
00:51:06,460 --> 00:51:09,460
S4: think that all of the prizes and all of the

1107
00:51:09,460 --> 00:51:13,720
S4: awards should go to Jesse. Okay. The acting awards, because

1108
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,270
S4: we didn't write it. I didn't write it. I didn't

1109
00:51:16,270 --> 00:51:19,089
S4: do it. And everybody's oh, what a great line. It's

1110
00:51:19,090 --> 00:51:21,910
S4: kind of like, you know, Frank Sinatra, you know, singing

1111
00:51:21,910 --> 00:51:25,360
S4: some song. He didn't write it. And it's an interesting

1112
00:51:25,900 --> 00:51:29,680
S4: way that you it's it's the visible. Everybody says, oh,

1113
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,190
S4: you know David Oh, Carl. But, you know, there's a

1114
00:51:33,190 --> 00:51:38,620
S4: cameraman who is catching, you know, my expressions and nothing.

1115
00:51:38,620 --> 00:51:42,250
S4: What happened? Were he not there? And and my face

1116
00:51:42,250 --> 00:51:46,149
S4: is in shiny because of the makeup version. And, you know,

1117
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:48,339
S4: you you see, it's kind of like a house, you know?

1118
00:51:48,460 --> 00:51:53,110
S4: Did you ever build a house or do doing addition? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

1119
00:51:53,110 --> 00:51:55,270
S4: So the first thing is the two by fours go up,

1120
00:51:55,420 --> 00:51:57,430
S4: you know, and you don't see that guy. And then

1121
00:51:57,430 --> 00:52:01,150
S4: there's all this intricate wiring, right? And then they cover

1122
00:52:01,150 --> 00:52:04,060
S4: it up and you don't see it. You say, Oh,

1123
00:52:04,060 --> 00:52:07,630
S4: it's a beautiful color. Yeah. But meanwhile, behind there, there's

1124
00:52:07,630 --> 00:52:11,140
S4: a whole infrastructure, a whole series of stuff that's important.

1125
00:52:11,140 --> 00:52:13,660
S4: So I you know, I'm very happy. I had a

1126
00:52:13,660 --> 00:52:16,000
S4: wonderful time in the season. And, you know, it's fun

1127
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,810
S4: to say those lines. MM Absolutely. You know, I was thrilled.

1128
00:52:19,810 --> 00:52:21,850
S4: They're just so funny.

1129
00:52:21,850 --> 00:52:24,790
S7: They are very funny. And I feel like Kyle and

1130
00:52:24,790 --> 00:52:27,640
S7: Frank have become kind of like these audience favorites anyway.

1131
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,580
S7: But I feel like your character especially has been just

1132
00:52:30,580 --> 00:52:34,180
S7: so funny this season. The I think it was episode

1133
00:52:34,180 --> 00:52:37,150
S7: for the scene with Tom where you kind of give

1134
00:52:37,150 --> 00:52:40,180
S7: him this dressing down and like the delivery of it,

1135
00:52:40,180 --> 00:52:42,279
S7: you know, you're a clumsy interloper. No one trusts you.

1136
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,020
S7: And almost as soon as as soon as you finish

1137
00:52:44,020 --> 00:52:45,700
S7: that line, I was like, oh, my God, the Internet

1138
00:52:45,700 --> 00:52:48,009
S7: is going to just eat that up. And it's kind

1139
00:52:48,010 --> 00:52:50,650
S7: of become one of those classic succession lines. When you

1140
00:52:50,650 --> 00:52:52,330
S7: read that on the on the page, like at the

1141
00:52:52,330 --> 00:52:54,430
S7: table read where you're like, This will be great.

1142
00:52:54,730 --> 00:52:58,120
S4: Fantastic, terrific scene, wonderful, well written. I didn't change it.

1143
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,359
S4: I didn't change a word. And these guys are really good.

1144
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,540
S4: You have no idea. You know, I mean, Jesse, I

1145
00:53:04,540 --> 00:53:06,610
S4: was I was going to say, you know, he doesn't

1146
00:53:06,610 --> 00:53:09,400
S4: do this for his health. You know, he has he

1147
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,680
S4: has this and he doesn't. I mean, I guess he's

1148
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,259
S4: happy to, you know, make all that money God knows

1149
00:53:14,260 --> 00:53:16,990
S4: how I made, but that's not really what's going on

1150
00:53:16,989 --> 00:53:20,740
S4: with him. You know, he has this sort of artistic,

1151
00:53:20,739 --> 00:53:23,980
S4: striving for excellence. I don't know. That's really what it

1152
00:53:23,980 --> 00:53:27,760
S4: is he has. He sets himself a goal. And they

1153
00:53:27,850 --> 00:53:31,510
S4: I guess I mean, the number of hours. Right. Spent

1154
00:53:31,510 --> 00:53:35,230
S4: those writers, it's just it's brutal. They are in a

1155
00:53:35,230 --> 00:53:38,500
S4: room just for I mean, you know, for months before

1156
00:53:38,500 --> 00:53:41,410
S4: we ever show up. Yeah, right. You're up all night.

1157
00:53:41,410 --> 00:53:44,530
S4: And then Jesse and I mean, he not only does

1158
00:53:44,530 --> 00:53:47,860
S4: he write it or ones he doesn't write, he beefs

1159
00:53:47,860 --> 00:53:51,520
S4: up and then he sees all the takes. So he says, Oh,

1160
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,390
S4: let's use that. He has suggestions about like, say, for instance,

1161
00:53:55,390 --> 00:53:58,089
S4: there's a conversation and he wants to add a line.

1162
00:53:58,450 --> 00:54:03,880
S4: So he'll put that in. He watches the edits. He

1163
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,089
S4: watches the music. I mean, this is Jesse Armstrong. Yeah.

1164
00:54:07,090 --> 00:54:10,270
S4: You know, it's really is fun to get all the

1165
00:54:10,270 --> 00:54:14,140
S4: accolades in like that and get, you know, everybody likes attention. Yeah, right.

1166
00:54:14,290 --> 00:54:19,090
S4: But let's face it. But I think that, you know, that,

1167
00:54:19,330 --> 00:54:22,840
S4: you know, in a kind of a way Carl lets

1168
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:27,930
S4: the audience kind of know. The truth about what's going on.

1169
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,650
S4: You know, they can chaperon, But, you know, then Karl says,

1170
00:54:31,650 --> 00:54:37,140
S4: you know, well, he's a he's a detained, you know.

1171
00:54:37,140 --> 00:54:40,020
S4: And Karl says, oh yeah. Oh he's heavily fucking detained.

1172
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,410
S4: You know. Yeah, you bet. Right. So, you know, Karl

1173
00:54:43,410 --> 00:54:46,680
S4: is kind of the the truth teller, you know, who

1174
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,230
S4: stands back and watches. And every once in a while

1175
00:54:49,230 --> 00:54:52,589
S4: when things get out of hand, throws a little bone

1176
00:54:52,590 --> 00:54:53,850
S4: moth in there and.

1177
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,110
S7: And do you think, like out of all the people

1178
00:54:57,110 --> 00:54:59,750
S7: jockeying for positions between like the kids and like the

1179
00:54:59,750 --> 00:55:02,390
S7: gray beards, Kyle seems to be the one that he's

1180
00:55:02,390 --> 00:55:04,640
S7: almost like, you know, he's got the Greek island. He's

1181
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,040
S7: he's talked about the golden parachute. Like, is he happy

1182
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:07,700
S7: to tap out?

1183
00:55:08,180 --> 00:55:11,810
S4: You know, I'm not going to answer that on the

1184
00:55:11,810 --> 00:55:15,410
S4: grounds of I'm not going to answer it, but we'll

1185
00:55:15,410 --> 00:55:20,570
S4: tell you that, you know, he's fierce, you know, really fierce.

1186
00:55:20,570 --> 00:55:23,570
S4: And I mean, in I think in Carl's and Carl's

1187
00:55:23,570 --> 00:55:26,120
S4: opinion is in this one was it in the second

1188
00:55:26,210 --> 00:55:30,590
S4: or third season where Logan turns to Frank and says

1189
00:55:30,590 --> 00:55:31,700
S4: your mashed potatoes.

1190
00:55:31,700 --> 00:55:33,799
S7: Yeah. Was that the boar on the floor episode?

1191
00:55:34,370 --> 00:55:36,050
S4: No, it was later than that. It was on the

1192
00:55:36,050 --> 00:55:38,930
S4: airplane and it was the boar. I don't know. But

1193
00:55:38,930 --> 00:55:43,220
S4: he doesn't tell me that, you know, tries to humiliate me,

1194
00:55:43,250 --> 00:55:46,250
S4: you know, and boring floor and I get humiliated. But

1195
00:55:46,250 --> 00:55:52,430
S4: it's a defiant humiliation if you fuck you watch this. Yeah.

1196
00:55:52,430 --> 00:55:54,950
S7: Okay. He kind of embraces it. He's like, you know what?

1197
00:55:54,950 --> 00:55:55,969
S7: I'll take it.

1198
00:55:56,660 --> 00:55:59,750
S4: I'll show you. Right. You know, he doesn't just fold.

1199
00:56:00,170 --> 00:56:02,450
S7: That boar on the floor remains kind of one of

1200
00:56:02,450 --> 00:56:05,630
S7: those great succession moments, like everyone talks about it. So

1201
00:56:05,630 --> 00:56:07,609
S7: do you remember kind of like getting the script, that

1202
00:56:07,610 --> 00:56:11,060
S7: episode and just being like, this is just out there?

1203
00:56:11,060 --> 00:56:14,509
S7: Because it was such a perfect succession moment. It demonstrated

1204
00:56:14,510 --> 00:56:16,940
S7: all the kind of like power dynamics at play, but

1205
00:56:16,940 --> 00:56:18,650
S7: it was just that was like a hard watch.

1206
00:56:20,210 --> 00:56:26,500
S4: Yeah, it's one of the most. Inventive, right? I mean,

1207
00:56:26,500 --> 00:56:29,859
S4: who could think of that? I know. It was so

1208
00:56:29,860 --> 00:56:35,860
S4: perfect and so awful. My. My children couldn't watch my son.

1209
00:56:36,310 --> 00:56:40,270
S4: He said, Dad, I can't watch that. It was upsetting

1210
00:56:40,270 --> 00:56:43,509
S4: to watch their father humiliated like that, you know?

1211
00:56:43,630 --> 00:56:44,890
S7: That is so good.

1212
00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:49,020
S4: Yeah, Just outstanding. Yeah. Everybody remembers that.

1213
00:56:49,030 --> 00:56:51,970
S7: Yeah. I'm very much looking forward to kind of seeing

1214
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:54,700
S7: the rest of the show and the rest of, you know,

1215
00:56:54,700 --> 00:56:56,440
S7: seeing it play out. And I know you obviously can't

1216
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,780
S7: talk to the ending, but I guess more just generally,

1217
00:56:58,930 --> 00:57:01,989
S7: your gut response to seeing how it closed out, did

1218
00:57:01,989 --> 00:57:04,540
S7: it feel fitting to the world of succession?

1219
00:57:04,930 --> 00:57:11,140
S4: No comment. My only comment is this You won't be disappointed.

1220
00:57:11,380 --> 00:57:13,930
S7: Perfect. Well, that seems. That seems fair.

1221
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,860
S4: You will not be disappointed. I mean, there was I

1222
00:57:17,860 --> 00:57:20,500
S4: was sort of because, you know, none of the cast

1223
00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:25,090
S4: has seen these shows. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So after three

1224
00:57:25,090 --> 00:57:30,580
S4: I was and the Internet was, you know, abuzz. The

1225
00:57:30,580 --> 00:57:35,830
S4: cast talked about what how what an unbelievable show this was.

1226
00:57:36,250 --> 00:57:40,480
S4: And the word speechless appeared more than once in the

1227
00:57:40,930 --> 00:57:44,980
S4: between the cast members. It was it was just so

1228
00:57:44,980 --> 00:57:49,000
S4: dense and so. I don't know. It just. It took

1229
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,480
S4: you there and you just were there. And it was

1230
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,690
S4: a marvelous episode. But, you know, you have to remember

1231
00:57:55,690 --> 00:58:01,840
S4: that structurally for is in some ways as important as three,

1232
00:58:02,020 --> 00:58:06,850
S4: because if you throw three out there and you kill

1233
00:58:06,850 --> 00:58:12,490
S4: off this guy, four better be good. Yeah. Because if

1234
00:58:12,490 --> 00:58:16,570
S4: it isn't, everybody's going to say, you know, uh oh, no,

1235
00:58:16,570 --> 00:58:20,200
S4: can't go without, can't go without Logan. But that's not

1236
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:25,330
S4: what happened. And that's that's the real strength of Armstrong

1237
00:58:25,330 --> 00:58:32,830
S4: and his writers is that they manage to sustain the intensity.

1238
00:58:32,830 --> 00:58:36,820
S4: And no one was saying, gee, four was kind of

1239
00:58:36,820 --> 00:58:42,640
S4: left me cold. Nobody. No, nobody. And same thing with five. Yeah.

1240
00:58:42,670 --> 00:58:45,760
S4: Nobody is. Everybody is going, Oh, God, I didn't think

1241
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:48,850
S4: that would happen. Oh, what about that? And now six,

1242
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:53,290
S4: you know, I mean, it's getting dangerous. Yeah. You know.

1243
00:58:53,290 --> 00:58:56,650
S7: Fall was such a great episode. And then, like, four

1244
00:58:56,650 --> 00:58:59,740
S7: was such a classic succession episode, like the two rooms,

1245
00:58:59,740 --> 00:59:01,930
S7: the two kind of war games and then five. It

1246
00:59:01,930 --> 00:59:03,850
S7: was so good, like to kind of get out of

1247
00:59:03,850 --> 00:59:06,010
S7: the world and go to Norway. And I thought Skarsgard

1248
00:59:06,010 --> 00:59:09,070
S7: was like an amazing energy to inject into the like,

1249
00:59:09,070 --> 00:59:11,200
S7: he was so great in that.

1250
00:59:11,380 --> 00:59:14,680
S4: He was absolutely, yeah, no, no. And then all this

1251
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:16,840
S4: and let me say, I have to say with regard

1252
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:22,870
S4: to everything is, well, your fellow, I think Sarah Snook

1253
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:26,370
S4: should be a national hero. I mean, she's she her

1254
00:59:26,410 --> 00:59:29,320
S4: performance in three that last scene.

1255
00:59:30,070 --> 00:59:32,620
S7: She's had an amazing season. I mean, she's an amazing actress,

1256
00:59:32,620 --> 00:59:35,440
S7: but she's had an amazing season. And just like the

1257
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:39,970
S7: the kind of emotional range and yeah, I really feel

1258
00:59:39,970 --> 00:59:43,480
S7: like her and in a my two kind of tops

1259
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:45,340
S7: this season just in terms of their performances.

1260
00:59:46,030 --> 00:59:47,260
S6: So facile she's.

1261
00:59:47,260 --> 00:59:50,890
S4: Always there she's always with a chuckle and a laugh

1262
00:59:50,890 --> 00:59:54,880
S4: and a I don't know a well maybe. And I mean,

1263
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,910
S4: she's all over. She plays all the notes. I used

1264
00:59:57,910 --> 01:00:00,640
S4: to think that, you know, one of the reasons why

1265
01:00:01,150 --> 01:00:05,560
S4: my career, you know, didn't end up being, you know,

1266
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:07,270
S4: what I might have wanted it to be was because

1267
01:00:07,270 --> 01:00:10,660
S4: my name was hard to pronounce. You know, Rosh people

1268
01:00:10,660 --> 01:00:14,950
S4: say Rashi, Rashi, Rashi, yeah, all that kind of stuff.

1269
01:00:14,950 --> 01:00:17,950
S4: But then her name is Sarah Snook and she seems

1270
01:00:17,950 --> 01:00:22,870
S4: to be doing fine. So I guess my name dressing.

1271
01:00:23,890 --> 01:00:26,140
S7: It's a sad realization. Yeah. I mean, I imagine she

1272
01:00:26,140 --> 01:00:27,970
S7: must be quite fun to have on set. I feel like.

1273
01:00:27,970 --> 01:00:29,860
S7: I feel like Australians would bring a good vibe.

1274
01:00:30,430 --> 01:00:33,760
S4: Well, don't don't horn in on her. Oh, no. Suddenly

1275
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:37,990
S4: you're all Australians. Oh that's nice. Oh right. We Australians,

1276
01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:40,930
S4: two dingoes and a flat rock, you know. I know

1277
01:00:40,930 --> 01:00:46,870
S4: all about that. Yeah. She's a she has such I

1278
01:00:46,870 --> 01:00:50,260
S4: mean one thing that she has that that is very

1279
01:00:50,260 --> 01:00:53,020
S4: unusual and I guess it is sort of Australian is

1280
01:00:53,130 --> 01:01:01,150
S4: she has a very beautiful and expressive vocal range.

1281
01:01:01,150 --> 01:01:01,810
S7: Yeah right.

1282
01:01:02,770 --> 01:01:06,070
S4: Her voice it goes up and down and sings and

1283
01:01:06,070 --> 01:01:09,850
S4: so and so. And it's not American because, you know,

1284
01:01:09,850 --> 01:01:11,860
S4: Americans are kind of, you know, flat like that. She's

1285
01:01:11,860 --> 01:01:15,880
S4: up and down. You know what? Yeah, she's she's great,

1286
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:21,930
S4: wonderful person and. It's. She just. You know, you don't

1287
01:01:21,930 --> 01:01:25,470
S4: see her mumbling your lines. No. Once in a while.

1288
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:33,150
S4: You never a complaint, never a, you know, always ideas.

1289
01:01:33,390 --> 01:01:34,650
S4: She's unbelievable.

1290
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:35,370
S18: Yeah.

1291
01:01:35,370 --> 01:01:38,280
S7: I mean it's I mean the entire cast like there

1292
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:41,850
S7: really is not a weak point. It's such an impressive ensemble.

1293
01:01:42,180 --> 01:01:44,730
S7: And I guess just lastly for someone like you, have

1294
01:01:44,730 --> 01:01:47,550
S7: you now like, you know, you're personally in the post

1295
01:01:47,550 --> 01:01:51,360
S7: succession kind of world for your career. Have you noticed that,

1296
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,450
S7: like being on a show that is so widely, critically

1297
01:01:54,450 --> 01:01:57,570
S7: acclaimed like succession, has it changed the level of of

1298
01:01:57,810 --> 01:01:59,610
S7: kind of scripts landing on your desk? Or have you

1299
01:01:59,610 --> 01:02:03,420
S7: found that you're seeing different projects pop up for you now?

1300
01:02:03,930 --> 01:02:06,210
S4: Well, I just did a movie that's coming out May

1301
01:02:06,210 --> 01:02:09,840
S4: 9th called About My Father. I did it last about

1302
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:11,790
S4: a year and a half ago with while I was

1303
01:02:11,790 --> 01:02:15,750
S4: on succession with Robert De Niro. Oh, nice. And I

1304
01:02:15,750 --> 01:02:19,110
S4: wrote Jesse and I said, I'm not going to say

1305
01:02:19,110 --> 01:02:22,919
S4: that I got this job because I was on succession.

1306
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:25,560
S4: But I will say it didn't hurt.

1307
01:02:26,130 --> 01:02:27,360
S7: What did he say back?

1308
01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:31,110
S18: Yeah, he don't know. I don't remember. Yeah.

1309
01:02:31,620 --> 01:02:34,170
S7: That's very true. I'll have to keep an eye out

1310
01:02:34,170 --> 01:02:36,390
S7: for the film. And thank you so much for having

1311
01:02:36,390 --> 01:02:38,580
S7: a chat to me this evening and this morning for me.

1312
01:02:38,580 --> 01:02:40,800
S7: And yeah, been loving this season.

1313
01:02:41,610 --> 01:02:43,710
S4: Well, great. This is not. This is a painless, a

1314
01:02:43,710 --> 01:02:46,020
S4: painless zoom call. I usually don't like him, but.

1315
01:02:46,140 --> 01:02:47,220
S18: Oh, good. Well, that's.

1316
01:02:47,220 --> 01:02:49,770
S7: That's all you can hope for. Yes. Well, nice talking

1317
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S7: to you. Yes. Thanks so much, David. And I hope

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S7: you have a nice night. Yes, you, too. Excuse me. Okay. Bye.

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S1: This Succession Recap podcast of the drop was produced by

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S1: Ruby Schwartz. If you enjoy listening to today's episode of

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01:03:07,060 --> 01:03:09,310
S1: The drop, make sure to follow us in your favorite

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S1: podcast app. Give us a review or better yet, share

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S1: it with a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui. See you next week.