WEBVTT - Inside Politics: Will the Coalition split or stay together? 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:03.720 From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:08.039 This is inside politics. I'm Jacqueline Maley, it's Thursday, May 22nd. 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:13.160 It was high drama this week, with the nationals telling 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:16.560 the liberals that they wanted a political divorce, a possible 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.440 split in the coalition, which has existed in some form 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:23.560 or another since 1923, was sparked by nationals leader David 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:27.960 Littleproud insisting on certain policies, notably an ongoing commitment to 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.120 nuclear power, which Liberal leader Sussan Ley felt she could 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:35.280 not agree to. But by Thursday afternoon the separation, like 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:37.600 a marriage on the rocks, was placed on hold while 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.839 further conversations took place. So what happened and what's going 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.040 to be better for both parties and indeed for the 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:48.479 political health of the nation? Here to discuss all this drama, 0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:52.080 we have our freshly minted chief political commentator, James Massola, 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:56.960 and also freshly minted, our political correspondent Natassia Chrysanthos. Welcome 0:00:56.960 --> 0:00:59.440 to you both. James, tell us how these dramatic events 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.940 came about. We know that nationals leader David Littleproud drove 0:01:02.940 --> 0:01:05.780 to Albury on Wednesday last week to negotiate the coalition 0:01:05.780 --> 0:01:08.660 agreement with the new Liberal leader, Sussan Ley, who was 0:01:08.660 --> 0:01:11.979 with her dying mother. What did Littleproud want? What were 0:01:11.980 --> 0:01:12.820 his demands? 0:01:13.980 --> 0:01:17.980 Look, the starting point for the demands, jacki, was four 0:01:17.980 --> 0:01:21.740 things he wanted the coalition or the nationals, one of 0:01:21.740 --> 0:01:25.340 the coalition, to remain committed to nuclear power, to remain 0:01:25.340 --> 0:01:30.380 committed to laws that could potentially force supermarkets to sell 0:01:30.580 --> 0:01:32.660 some of their outlets if they were found to be, 0:01:32.700 --> 0:01:37.420 you know, engaged in anti-competitive conduct, um, you know, sought 0:01:37.420 --> 0:01:43.340 to divest, um, they wanted a $20 billion regional future fund, uh, 0:01:43.340 --> 0:01:45.940 which they'd taken to the last election to be kept 0:01:45.940 --> 0:01:49.860 in place. And they wanted basically updated provisions for the 0:01:49.860 --> 0:01:56.380 universal service obligation that, uh, telecoms providers are obligated to provide, 0:01:56.380 --> 0:01:59.740 which means, you know, decent reception essentially for your mobile 0:01:59.740 --> 0:02:03.040 phone in the bush, Decent mail service, those sorts of things. 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:07.000 And they also were asking for basically no cabinet solidarity 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.640 that they wouldn't have to be bound by cabinet solidarity 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:10.680 with the liberals. Right? 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:15.120 Yeah. Which look, quite frankly, is an extraordinary request and 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.799 unprecedented request and one that, you know, no leader could 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.120 ever agree to. But yes, that was the final thing. 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:25.480 It's something that David Littleproud didn't mention at all during 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.040 his sort of, you know, the big press conference announcing 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.280 the split, but which the liberals have been very keen 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:32.000 to say, well, hang on, there was this other thing 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:33.680 and it's kind of a non-negotiable. 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.720 So they're basically saying we demand these four key policies, which, 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:39.959 to be fair, are nationalist policies that they're obviously they've 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.560 developed and they stand by. But we also want the 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.080 right to speak out against any other policies within the 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:47.880 coalition that we don't agree with. 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.880 Yeah. And, you know, to my exact point like that 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.080 would be unprecedented, Jack. You don't get the luxury of 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:56.600 doing that. You have the argument in the cabinet room 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.000 or the shadow Cabinet Room. This is how politics has 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:01.370 worked for, you know, You know, 130, whatever it is, 0:03:01.410 --> 0:03:04.530 years you have the arguments in the room, you settle 0:03:04.530 --> 0:03:07.450 the position, you come out and you present a united front. 0:03:07.450 --> 0:03:09.970 So for the Nats and the libs to be sort 0:03:09.970 --> 0:03:12.690 of if, if it were to have been approved for 0:03:12.690 --> 0:03:14.730 them to be coming out saying, well, we take a 0:03:14.730 --> 0:03:17.090 different position on this, it would be without precedent. 0:03:17.130 --> 0:03:18.970 Yeah. It was almost like a sort of a demand 0:03:18.970 --> 0:03:20.930 that there was no way that Susan Lee was ever 0:03:20.930 --> 0:03:22.970 going to be able to take it up to us. 0:03:23.010 --> 0:03:25.130 How did Lee respond to those demands? So there in 0:03:25.130 --> 0:03:27.810 Albury and Susan Lee, we should say, is having the 0:03:27.810 --> 0:03:29.609 worst week of her life or one of the worst 0:03:29.610 --> 0:03:31.930 weeks of her life, because she's nursing her mother through 0:03:31.970 --> 0:03:33.850 her last days of her life and then having to 0:03:33.889 --> 0:03:36.730 arrange a funeral. So all of this is happening in 0:03:36.730 --> 0:03:40.130 tandem with that, um, Littleproud comes to her with these demands. 0:03:40.130 --> 0:03:41.170 What does she say? 0:03:41.650 --> 0:03:45.770 She says no. In short, um, and that's for a 0:03:46.210 --> 0:03:49.490 kind of two main reasons. On the cabinet solidarity point. 0:03:49.490 --> 0:03:53.770 As James just mentioned, it's untenable to have shadow ministers 0:03:53.770 --> 0:03:57.050 who disagree with the position of the party. Um, so 0:03:57.050 --> 0:03:59.450 that was never going to work. And then on the 0:03:59.450 --> 0:04:03.190 policy points. So these were coalition policies going into the election. 0:04:03.190 --> 0:04:06.350 The National's argument were these are the policies we promised 0:04:06.350 --> 0:04:09.430 voters who elected us. We owe it to them. But 0:04:10.190 --> 0:04:13.030 Lee came out on her first day as leader and 0:04:13.030 --> 0:04:16.390 said no policies adopted, no policies abandoned. We are going 0:04:16.430 --> 0:04:19.190 to start from scratch on everything. And she made that 0:04:19.190 --> 0:04:21.310 as an undertaking to her party room, and she made 0:04:21.310 --> 0:04:25.230 that as an undertaking to the Australian people. Um, and so, 0:04:26.510 --> 0:04:28.630 you know, you can see both of their interests coming 0:04:28.630 --> 0:04:31.990 through here. Um, the nationals have fought hard for these policies. 0:04:31.990 --> 0:04:33.630 They said, we want to go forward and build on them. 0:04:33.630 --> 0:04:35.510 We don't have to want to have to relitigate all 0:04:35.550 --> 0:04:38.710 of those things. That's a reasonable point from their perspective. 0:04:39.190 --> 0:04:41.349 I mean, in defence of the Nat's position, I suppose 0:04:41.350 --> 0:04:42.990 they're saying that they want to keep faith with the 0:04:42.990 --> 0:04:45.550 voters that have just elected them on the back of 0:04:45.550 --> 0:04:48.909 these policies. But the liberals have a divergent sort of interest, 0:04:48.910 --> 0:04:52.270 which is we just got roundly sort of executed at 0:04:52.270 --> 0:04:55.430 the polls because of our policies. So we obviously need 0:04:55.430 --> 0:04:58.630 to rebuild and remake those policies to keep faith with 0:04:58.630 --> 0:04:59.550 our voters. 0:04:59.589 --> 0:05:02.409 Yeah, and that was the point that Zoe McKenzie, um, 0:05:02.610 --> 0:05:06.410 a Liberal moderate MP made this week, which is, I think, 0:05:06.570 --> 0:05:08.770 why a few liberals are saying, you know, this is 0:05:08.770 --> 0:05:10.930 kind of the way it is those policies let the 0:05:10.930 --> 0:05:15.090 nationals keep all of their seats. And those policies potentially 0:05:15.089 --> 0:05:17.650 contributed to the loss of dozens of Liberal seats. So 0:05:17.650 --> 0:05:19.330 they've got very different interests here. 0:05:19.730 --> 0:05:22.890 Therein lies the entire sort of dilemma. Lee, after this, 0:05:22.930 --> 0:05:25.650 she said no to those demands. The Nats had a 0:05:25.650 --> 0:05:27.650 party room meeting and they decided they were not going 0:05:27.650 --> 0:05:30.130 to back down. Lee put a counter offer, I think, 0:05:30.130 --> 0:05:31.930 in the following days, and said she just wanted to 0:05:31.970 --> 0:05:35.010 sort the frontbench out first and, you know, her shadow ministry. 0:05:35.290 --> 0:05:37.330 And then the Nats had another meeting, I think, on 0:05:37.330 --> 0:05:39.850 Tuesday morning. And that was when they decided to formally 0:05:39.850 --> 0:05:42.890 break with the liberals. But how much notice, James, did 0:05:42.930 --> 0:05:46.049 David Littleproud give uh, give Sussan Ley before he announced 0:05:46.050 --> 0:05:46.890 it publicly. 0:05:47.529 --> 0:05:50.529 It was about 45 minutes. Um, yeah. They met Tuesday 0:05:50.529 --> 0:05:54.690 morning at around 1015, 1030. I just happened to be 0:05:54.690 --> 0:05:57.890 walking around the corridors of Parliament and saw Littleproud walking 0:05:57.890 --> 0:06:00.750 into Lee's office. Um, we know it was from what 0:06:00.750 --> 0:06:03.669 Susan said, a 30 minute meeting, pretty quick and fairly 0:06:03.670 --> 0:06:05.469 pro forma. And then he walked out and said, right, 0:06:05.510 --> 0:06:07.190 you know, 45 minutes notice. 0:06:07.470 --> 0:06:10.470 Our party room has got to a position where we 0:06:10.470 --> 0:06:13.870 will not be reentering a coalition agreement with the Liberal 0:06:13.870 --> 0:06:16.030 Party after this election. 0:06:16.029 --> 0:06:19.670 So she convened Sussan Ley an emergency meeting of the 0:06:19.670 --> 0:06:23.110 Liberal Party party room to let them know what had happened. 0:06:23.390 --> 0:06:27.390 And while I have enormous respect for David and his team, 0:06:27.910 --> 0:06:32.910 it is disappointing that the National Party has decided today 0:06:33.110 --> 0:06:36.270 to leave the coalition. But the most important thing I 0:06:36.270 --> 0:06:40.190 want to say is this the nationals door remains open 0:06:40.430 --> 0:06:43.510 and our door remains open, and we look forward with 0:06:43.510 --> 0:06:47.469 optimism to rejoining at some point in the future. 0:06:47.470 --> 0:06:49.710 If we could just dial back one step here, Jackie. 0:06:49.750 --> 0:06:52.430 I want to make a couple of points. Susan Lee's 0:06:52.430 --> 0:06:54.229 been the leader of the Liberal Party for. I think 0:06:54.270 --> 0:06:57.589 it's nine days now. This happened on the seventh day. 0:06:57.990 --> 0:07:01.890 Her mum had died three days earlier. She was in Albury, 0:07:02.089 --> 0:07:04.850 you know, beginning to make the arrangements for, um, for 0:07:04.850 --> 0:07:08.370 a funeral. Um, she had said very clearly and very publicly, 0:07:08.370 --> 0:07:11.090 we are going to take our time and digest this 0:07:11.090 --> 0:07:13.690 election result because, you know, as Tarr said, it was 0:07:13.690 --> 0:07:14.250 a thumping. 0:07:14.250 --> 0:07:17.930 Can I firstly thank David Littleproud for driving down the 0:07:17.930 --> 0:07:20.970 Hume Highway to meet me in my office in my 0:07:20.970 --> 0:07:24.570 home town so that I could spend my mum's final 0:07:24.570 --> 0:07:26.210 days close to her. 0:07:26.450 --> 0:07:28.850 The Liberal Party hadn't even had a chance to meet 0:07:29.050 --> 0:07:33.130 to consider the National Party's demands. Those four main demands, 0:07:33.450 --> 0:07:36.210 all four of them, are probably likely to have been 0:07:36.210 --> 0:07:37.650 supported by the Liberal Party. 0:07:37.650 --> 0:07:38.330 The policies? 0:07:38.370 --> 0:07:40.770 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. Yes. The policies. Yeah. But it 0:07:40.770 --> 0:07:44.170 was a timing thing. The Nats wanted it immediately. It was, um, 0:07:44.210 --> 0:07:47.290 you know, in my view, uh confected demands. I mean, 0:07:47.330 --> 0:07:50.970 it's not like, um, the liberals suddenly going to completely 0:07:50.970 --> 0:07:52.810 change what they believe and say, no, we're not going 0:07:52.810 --> 0:07:55.010 to do any of this stuff that we've believed in until, 0:07:55.050 --> 0:07:57.170 you know, six weeks ago or whenever the election was. 0:07:57.170 --> 0:08:01.230 It's a confected set of reasons to leave. I think 0:08:01.230 --> 0:08:03.790 the real reason why the Nats have left is because 0:08:03.790 --> 0:08:05.630 of net zero. Now they deny that. 0:08:05.630 --> 0:08:09.270 And just remind listeners that the coalition remains formally committed 0:08:09.270 --> 0:08:13.830 to net zero emissions by 2050. But obviously, we know 0:08:13.830 --> 0:08:16.310 that the nationals have been very keen to abandon that 0:08:16.310 --> 0:08:18.950 arrangement and want the liberals to do so, too. So 0:08:18.950 --> 0:08:21.350 that's sort of been a key tension point in the 0:08:21.350 --> 0:08:24.230 climate wars over the last ten years, you could say. 0:08:24.470 --> 0:08:28.550 Let's turn to what happened on Thursday afternoon. Now, it's 0:08:28.550 --> 0:08:30.710 hard to keep up, actually, with what seems to be 0:08:30.710 --> 0:08:33.510 like a toxic marriage, where one minute there's a breakup, 0:08:33.510 --> 0:08:35.390 the next minute there's a make up, just like the 0:08:35.429 --> 0:08:38.270 Katy Perry song. Tell us what's happened on Thursday afternoon. 0:08:38.309 --> 0:08:43.630 So, quite remarkably, 48 hours after David Littleproud said the 0:08:43.630 --> 0:08:45.949 nationals would be leaving the coalition for the first time 0:08:45.950 --> 0:08:49.230 in 38 years, that is no longer definitely the case. 0:08:49.830 --> 0:08:53.910 So Littleproud on Thursday gave a sudden press conference in 0:08:53.910 --> 0:08:55.430 the corridors of parliament. 0:08:55.710 --> 0:08:56.230 All good. 0:08:57.190 --> 0:09:00.120 Thank you. We've, uh you're right. 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:03.480 In which he said that the breakup was basically a 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:05.000 break and they were on pause. 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.959 In a mature and sensible way. And I'm proud of 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:13.000 the fact that our guys are prepared to to accept 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:15.800 that in being sent home today, despite the fact that 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.920 I was about to announce to you all this afternoon, 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:21.040 our shadow spokesman, because I think this is a far 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:21.880 more important. 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:26.960 Littleproud and Lee had planned, uh, on Thursday afternoon to 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:30.720 reveal their respective shadow cabinets. So they're the spokespeople that 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.200 talk about things like Treasury and Foreign Affairs and whatnot. 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.120 And they were going to go it alone, but they 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:39.160 had both decided to call that off while they tried 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:43.240 to broker some kind of agreement. And basically where we 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:47.439 got to was that this these sticking points around the 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.560 four policies that the nationals wanted, they would give the 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.240 liberals time to at least have a conversation about those 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:55.640 before pulling the plug. 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:57.240 Or getting back together. 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:58.560 After. Hold on, hold on. I'm sorry. 0:09:58.840 --> 0:09:59.939 So you're getting back together? 0:09:59.980 --> 0:10:04.420 No. This will allow time for a process for Susan 0:10:04.420 --> 0:10:07.660 Lee to call her party room together to discuss those 0:10:07.660 --> 0:10:09.099 four policy areas. 0:10:09.140 --> 0:10:13.700 Quite interestingly, this all played out over the ABC. Um, 0:10:13.740 --> 0:10:16.980 because on Wednesday night, you had national Senator Bridget McKenzie 0:10:17.020 --> 0:10:20.980 go on Sarah Ferguson's 730 program and say the only 0:10:20.980 --> 0:10:24.180 thing we care about is the four policies. Um, Sarah 0:10:24.179 --> 0:10:27.340 Ferguson asked her, well, what about Susan Lee's claim about 0:10:27.340 --> 0:10:32.060 this shadow cabinet confidentiality point? McKenzie said, that's not a 0:10:32.059 --> 0:10:35.260 problem for us. Someone in Lee's office was watching and 0:10:35.260 --> 0:10:37.900 quite displeased by that version of events, so they texted 0:10:37.900 --> 0:10:40.540 in to the ABC. Um, and so by the end 0:10:40.540 --> 0:10:43.819 of the program, Sarah Ferguson's there saying, you know, Lee's 0:10:43.860 --> 0:10:46.500 contacted us to dispute this basically, and says they've got 0:10:46.500 --> 0:10:49.140 in writing that the Knights did want this shadow cabinet 0:10:49.140 --> 0:10:50.500 confidentiality exemption. 0:10:50.540 --> 0:10:53.260 Now, as that interview played, we've just received a note 0:10:53.260 --> 0:10:56.260 from Susan Lee's office saying it is not correct to 0:10:56.300 --> 0:11:00.240 suggest that Shadow Cabinet solidarity was not a sticking point 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.520 and they that is Susan Lee's office have that in writing. 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.040 So everyone went to bed on Wednesday night and then 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.040 lo and behold, Thursday morning David Littleproud is again on 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:15.640 the ABC. He's asked what's the go basically. And he says, no, 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:19.800 Susan didn't agree to this shadow cabinet confidentiality thing. And 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.160 that's perfectly reasonable. That's fine with us. We just want 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:26.240 our four policies. And so apparently Lee's office heard this 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:29.320 and they were like la di da great. Come back in, 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.520 let's talk about it. And as simply as that, um, 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.520 the the backtrack was done. 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.520 It's great to see the national broadcaster playing such an 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:43.719 important role in the lives of our conservative parties. Indeed, 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.000 they often criticise aunty, but yeah. 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:49.640 I know they're actually mediating. It's mediating this dispute between 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.000 the two conservative parties. Um, I mean, I keep sort 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.160 of coming back to this metaphor of the toxic marriage 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:57.760 which everybody is going for, but it feels like that 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:02.700 felt like gaslighting to me. what David Littleproud did. Um, anyway, James, 0:12:02.740 --> 0:12:05.060 is it possible to predict where this is going to go? 0:12:05.460 --> 0:12:09.179 Yeah. I mean, I thought the whole way through that, um, 0:12:09.220 --> 0:12:12.780 they'll get back together at some point, but not, you know, 0:12:12.820 --> 0:12:15.420 given what we've heard from Susan Lee and what have you, 0:12:15.460 --> 0:12:17.540 not in this term or only towards the end of 0:12:17.540 --> 0:12:20.660 this term. I mean, I've straight after this, uh, you know, 0:12:20.860 --> 0:12:22.780 recordings done. Jack, I've got to go to my physio 0:12:22.780 --> 0:12:26.380 and get this whiplash treated. It's, um, it's just the 0:12:26.380 --> 0:12:29.579 events of the last couple of days are quite extraordinary. 0:12:29.580 --> 0:12:33.900 And look, um, put aside what David Littleproud and Bridget 0:12:33.900 --> 0:12:37.220 McKenzie are saying. You know, put aside the posturing. This 0:12:37.220 --> 0:12:40.340 is a win for Sussan Ley. And she was right 0:12:40.340 --> 0:12:44.740 to say shadow cabinet confidentiality must be maintained. I mean 0:12:44.780 --> 0:12:47.260 she she didn't give ground. That's the right thing to do. 0:12:47.420 --> 0:12:50.340 Now we're seeing a back down. And, you know, quite 0:12:50.340 --> 0:12:54.420 frankly a very embarrassing backdown for the nationals and for me, Jacqui, 0:12:54.420 --> 0:12:59.360 the question then becomes, uh, one about David Littleproud's Judgment 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.000 and the judgment of the leadership team in the nets. 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.800 What were they doing if they get back together two 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.600 days after this breakup or whatever you want to call it? 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.840 It's it's it's ludicrous. Frankly, I don't have another word 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.960 for it. So yes, they can get back together, but 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:13.840 can he stay? 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.160 And realistically, they're not going to get those four demands 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.680 set in stone by the time that a shadow cabinet 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.520 needs to be named in July when Parliament returns. So 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.079 he said that on Thursday. He said, you know, ideally 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:28.000 we walk back into Parliament with our shadow cabinet. So 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.080 you have, you know, you know, who's who in the 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:31.920 zoo when you sit in your first Question time. 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.880 Was he saying, just to clarify, sorry to interrupt. Was 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.600 he saying that they want a coalition shadow cabinet. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:42.720 Ideally a coalition shadow cabinet back together. They want that 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.240 ideally by July 22nd. So they look they look like 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.400 they know what they're doing. And then, you know, the 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.320 nuts don't have to go sit with the teals and 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.560 the greens. They can sit on their coalition side. But 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.559 there is no way that the liberals form their energy 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.370 policy and decide what they're doing on that by the 0:14:00.370 --> 0:14:03.570 22nd of July. And similarly, they've committed to a root 0:14:03.570 --> 0:14:06.690 and branch review of all their policies. Um, that's probably 0:14:06.690 --> 0:14:09.809 going to take half a year. So either way, I 0:14:09.809 --> 0:14:13.890 think the nationals are coming back probably knowing that baking 0:14:13.890 --> 0:14:18.570 in for policies into all four policies, into a coalition 0:14:18.570 --> 0:14:21.530 agreement within the next six weeks is probably not going 0:14:21.530 --> 0:14:22.330 to happen. 0:14:22.370 --> 0:14:25.010 But it's not without precedent either. Look, it's important to 0:14:25.010 --> 0:14:28.250 make this point for the listeners here. Some coalition agreements 0:14:28.250 --> 0:14:32.330 do have specific policy demands written into them. 2016 When 0:14:32.330 --> 0:14:35.330 Malcolm Turnbull just snuck back into government, there was a 0:14:35.330 --> 0:14:39.810 protracted negotiation then over what the nationals wanted. And, you know, 0:14:39.850 --> 0:14:42.650 Malcolm Turnbull did give some ground. There were some policies, 0:14:42.650 --> 0:14:45.610 as I understand it written in, but on other occasions 0:14:45.770 --> 0:14:48.490 it's just a sort of bare bones agreement. This is 0:14:48.490 --> 0:14:51.490 how many, um, you know, shadow cabinet or cabinet spots. 0:14:51.490 --> 0:14:54.090 We're entitled. This is how many you get. We'll work 0:14:54.090 --> 0:14:56.770 together and that's it basically. Then they work it out 0:14:56.770 --> 0:14:58.090 on a piecemeal basis. 0:14:58.130 --> 0:15:00.710 It's not always an ironclad prenup. It's more of a 0:15:00.750 --> 0:15:03.310 kind of broad brushstrokes, agreement in a lot of cases. 0:15:03.310 --> 0:15:04.190 Precisely. 0:15:04.230 --> 0:15:06.710 Listen, guys, this is fascinating. It's going to keep playing out. 0:15:06.710 --> 0:15:08.550 So we're going to come back to you whenever we 0:15:08.550 --> 0:15:11.150 need to. Probably next week to get the next installment. 0:15:11.150 --> 0:15:14.190 And who knows where this crazy ride will end. So 0:15:14.190 --> 0:15:15.230 thanks very much. 0:15:15.270 --> 0:15:16.350 Thanks very much, Jack. 0:15:16.510 --> 0:15:17.310 Thanks. 0:15:18.310 --> 0:15:21.990 Today's episode was produced by Tammy Mills with technical assistance 0:15:21.990 --> 0:15:26.710 from Debbie Harrington and Belen Sanchez. Tom McKendrick is our 0:15:26.710 --> 0:15:29.550 head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon 0:15:29.550 --> 0:15:33.110 as they drop, follow Inside Politics on Apple, Spotify or 0:15:33.150 --> 0:15:36.030 anywhere else you listen to your podcasts. To stay up 0:15:36.030 --> 0:15:38.510 to date with all of our political coverage and exclusives, 0:15:38.550 --> 0:15:41.710 visit The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald websites to 0:15:41.750 --> 0:15:45.030 support our journalism. Subscribe to us by visiting The Age 0:15:45.030 --> 0:15:51.070 or smh.com.au. I'm Jacqueline Maley. Thank you for listening.