1 00:00:02,590 --> 00:00:05,739 S1: But a thousand sunflowers bloom on me. I want to 2 00:00:05,740 --> 00:00:07,390 S1: start a business with you, brother. 3 00:00:07,420 --> 00:00:10,110 S2: The rival bidder. It's probably the kids. 4 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,060 S3: This is not about getting back at Dad. But if 5 00:00:13,060 --> 00:00:14,550 S3: it hurts him, it doesn't bother me. 6 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:15,910 S4: We'll always be good. 7 00:00:16,300 --> 00:00:18,010 S5: Right? If we're good. 8 00:00:18,730 --> 00:00:22,210 S6: We're good. You've accidentally made him a sex tape, Greg. 9 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:24,700 S7: The disgusting brothers. 10 00:00:25,060 --> 00:00:28,090 S8: Monsters. Meet the fucking monsters. 11 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,430 S9: Welcome to the first episode of the Drops Special Succession 12 00:00:35,430 --> 00:00:39,630 S9: Recap Podcast. I'm Osman Farooqi, culture editor at The Age 13 00:00:39,630 --> 00:00:42,659 S9: and Sydney Morning Herald. And every week I'll be joined 14 00:00:42,659 --> 00:00:46,320 S9: by culture reporters Thomas Mitchell and Meg Watson to break 15 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,430 S9: down the latest episodes of Successions Fourth and final season. 16 00:00:50,430 --> 00:00:52,200 S9: Meg Watson how are you doing? 17 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:53,019 S10: I'm great. 18 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,630 S9: Thomas Mitchell, what's up? 19 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:57,360 S11: Not much, but I'm glad to be here finally. All right. 20 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,140 S9: I'm really excited about this finally getting underway. We are 21 00:01:01,140 --> 00:01:04,470 S9: going to be recapping every episode of the fourth and 22 00:01:04,470 --> 00:01:07,470 S9: final season of succession over the next couple of months. 23 00:01:07,470 --> 00:01:10,740 S9: Before we get into today's episode, let's quickly run through 24 00:01:10,740 --> 00:01:13,020 S9: how they're actually going to work. We're going to kick 25 00:01:13,020 --> 00:01:15,959 S9: off by sharing our thoughts on the most recent episode. 26 00:01:16,230 --> 00:01:18,300 S9: We're going to dive into some of the key moments 27 00:01:18,300 --> 00:01:20,580 S9: of the show, and we're going to have some recurring 28 00:01:20,580 --> 00:01:23,880 S9: segments as well that'll include each of us sharing what 29 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,250 S9: we think are the best lines of the EP, which 30 00:01:26,250 --> 00:01:28,080 S9: is going to be a tricky one because there's always 31 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,360 S9: so many good ones. We're going to keep an eye 32 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,610 S9: on some of the minor characters and see what they're 33 00:01:32,610 --> 00:01:35,670 S9: up to. Will be ranking the key cast in terms 34 00:01:35,670 --> 00:01:38,460 S9: of who's winning and who's losing. And we're going to 35 00:01:38,459 --> 00:01:42,600 S9: share our predictions for the upcoming apps as well. If 36 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:44,910 S9: it isn't clear by now, these episodes are going to 37 00:01:44,910 --> 00:01:48,450 S9: be filled with spoilers, so please only listen to this 38 00:01:48,450 --> 00:01:51,660 S9: once you've watched the latest EP. All right, let's get 39 00:01:51,660 --> 00:01:58,080 S9: into it. We're talking Succession Season four, Episode one. It's 40 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,960 S9: called The Munsters. It's written by Jesse Armstrong and directed 41 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,920 S9: by long time succession director Mark Mylod. It's like that 42 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,850 S9: with three key parts to this episode. We open with 43 00:02:08,850 --> 00:02:13,440 S9: Logan's birthday party here. Logan. 44 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,650 S8: The fuck is this now? 45 00:02:18,180 --> 00:02:22,060 S9: We sort of cut between the scene there to the siblings. 46 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,710 S3: We're looking for investment partners for a revolutionary new media 47 00:02:25,710 --> 00:02:27,330 S3: brand that's going to read. 48 00:02:27,750 --> 00:02:32,040 S9: Kendall, Shiv and Roman teaming up to pitch a really 49 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,709 S9: bizarre and hilarious new media company. 50 00:02:34,710 --> 00:02:37,500 S12: And I go the hundred greatest experts, best writers, top 51 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:41,340 S12: minds in every field, from Israel-Palestine to AI to. 52 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,980 S9: Restaurant. And then we move into this bidding war between 53 00:02:44,980 --> 00:02:48,310 S9: those two factions as they try and purchase the Pierce 54 00:02:48,310 --> 00:02:49,800 S9: Media empire. 55 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,440 S13: At 859. So we go nine five to top them out, 56 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,790 S13: but ten just to show that we're really serious. So 57 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,890 S13: the half bill extra is just that's just an extra 58 00:03:02,889 --> 00:03:03,519 S13: half bill. 59 00:03:09,130 --> 00:03:12,639 S9: Before we get into all the deep dive stuff, general 60 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,309 S9: feelings on the episode. Meg It's been a year since 61 00:03:15,310 --> 00:03:17,620 S9: we had fresh succession content. How did you feel watching 62 00:03:17,620 --> 00:03:18,070 S9: this one? 63 00:03:18,070 --> 00:03:22,480 S10: Just happy to be back. The Disgusting Brothers are back. Overall, 64 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,820 S10: I really liked it. I think at the start it 65 00:03:24,820 --> 00:03:27,550 S10: felt a bit slow. Maybe. I don't know if it's 66 00:03:27,550 --> 00:03:30,580 S10: just because I had recently rewatched the season three finale, 67 00:03:30,580 --> 00:03:34,060 S10: which was obviously so great. So expectations were so high, 68 00:03:34,060 --> 00:03:37,000 S10: but I mean, I don't care a whole lot about 69 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:42,369 S10: the steel stuff, but seeing the siblings all together, roasting 70 00:03:42,370 --> 00:03:44,380 S10: each other in a room which we haven't seen for 71 00:03:44,380 --> 00:03:46,300 S10: so long, really. I mean, there's only like one episode 72 00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:49,270 S10: last season when we got that was so satisfying and 73 00:03:49,510 --> 00:03:52,150 S10: the relationship dynamics of it all were great as well. 74 00:03:52,180 --> 00:03:53,710 S9: How about you, Thomas? How do you feel being back 75 00:03:53,710 --> 00:03:55,510 S9: in the wonderful world of succession? 76 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,180 S11: Yeah, it's obviously nice to be back. I think I 77 00:03:58,180 --> 00:04:02,200 S11: felt a little bit disappointed. I think I knew that 78 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,270 S11: it was going to be an app that, you know, 79 00:04:04,270 --> 00:04:06,460 S11: there was a lot of setup happening. It's been a 80 00:04:06,460 --> 00:04:08,140 S11: long time. It's been over a year, I think since 81 00:04:08,140 --> 00:04:10,570 S11: the season three finale. And that was such a good pace. 82 00:04:10,570 --> 00:04:12,850 S11: That was almost succession at its very best, I'd say. 83 00:04:12,850 --> 00:04:15,880 S11: And so I think I felt the time lapse not 84 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,560 S11: only because they did have to do like a bit 85 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,390 S11: of this is where we're at and this is what's 86 00:04:19,390 --> 00:04:22,150 S11: happening and this is where the siblings are. But just generally, 87 00:04:22,150 --> 00:04:24,070 S11: you know, time has passed. Everyone looks a bit different. 88 00:04:24,070 --> 00:04:26,880 S11: I found it a little bit jarring. But yeah, like Meg, 89 00:04:26,890 --> 00:04:28,990 S11: it was so good seeing the siblings back in in 90 00:04:28,990 --> 00:04:30,550 S11: one room together, I think. 91 00:04:30,550 --> 00:04:32,890 S9: And I'm not just saying this to add a third 92 00:04:32,890 --> 00:04:34,660 S9: different voice to the table. I think I'm sort of 93 00:04:34,660 --> 00:04:37,180 S9: in between both of you guys and how this episode 94 00:04:37,180 --> 00:04:40,150 S9: played out. I think this episode was a reminder about 95 00:04:40,150 --> 00:04:42,910 S9: what succession does so well, which is the writing and 96 00:04:42,910 --> 00:04:45,130 S9: the characters and the acting. It has some of the 97 00:04:45,130 --> 00:04:48,070 S9: funniest lines I've ever seen in TV, and it has 98 00:04:48,070 --> 00:04:50,770 S9: some of the most poignant and moving and quite emotional 99 00:04:50,770 --> 00:04:53,799 S9: bits as well. And seeing that's like why we love 100 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,659 S9: the show. It's when we were talking in our episode 101 00:04:55,660 --> 00:04:57,729 S9: last week about we're a bit sad that it's ending 102 00:04:57,730 --> 00:05:01,300 S9: is I could watch those siblings interact with each other 103 00:05:01,540 --> 00:05:04,900 S9: every week for like the next ten years. But I 104 00:05:04,900 --> 00:05:09,520 S9: also found the general plot of the episode a little 105 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,120 S9: bit slow. It was a bit of a reset. Logan 106 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,500 S9: is trying to get sold and acquired by Lucas Madsen's company, 107 00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:20,050 S9: and we fast forward a year and that's still basically 108 00:05:20,050 --> 00:05:20,590 S9: where we're at. 109 00:05:20,589 --> 00:05:22,720 S10: It's just How is the Gojo deal not done? 110 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:24,730 S9: Yeah, it was supposed to all be done in like 111 00:05:24,820 --> 00:05:26,020 S9: two hours. 112 00:05:26,170 --> 00:05:27,550 S10: That's what I thought they were rushing. 113 00:05:27,550 --> 00:05:29,710 S9: And now it seems like we're at least a few weeks, 114 00:05:29,710 --> 00:05:32,930 S9: if not months down the track, and there's still 48 115 00:05:32,930 --> 00:05:34,960 S9: hours to go with the deal. So but, you know, 116 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,109 S9: I wondered maybe I'm being too critical because people like us, 117 00:05:38,110 --> 00:05:40,540 S9: we rewatch season three. We spend a lot of time 118 00:05:40,540 --> 00:05:43,900 S9: thinking and talking about it. And maybe for most regular viewers, 119 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:46,150 S9: it's actually kind of helpful to have that reset. 120 00:05:46,150 --> 00:05:47,920 S10: Also, we know nothing about business, so. 121 00:05:49,270 --> 00:05:50,080 S9: Speak for yourself. 122 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,810 S11: Love being this big business guy. No, I think you're right. 123 00:05:52,810 --> 00:05:56,500 S11: I think that it almost felt like the writers were like, look, 124 00:05:56,500 --> 00:05:58,690 S11: we know we have to do a bit of resetting here, 125 00:05:58,690 --> 00:06:01,089 S11: so we're going to stuff it full of around all 126 00:06:01,089 --> 00:06:03,220 S11: the like, you know, plot that we're required to do. 127 00:06:03,220 --> 00:06:05,500 S11: We're going to stuff it full of great writing, great 128 00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:08,080 S11: lines to kind of make sure that almost like papering 129 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,210 S11: over the cracks of like, yeah, we have to bring 130 00:06:10,210 --> 00:06:11,710 S11: you back into this world and do a bit of 131 00:06:11,710 --> 00:06:13,840 S11: like setting up before we get into the season proper. 132 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,950 S9: Let's talk about the key, I guess, tension point of 133 00:06:17,950 --> 00:06:22,299 S9: this episode where the setup of these two different groups 134 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,640 S9: really kind of came to a head and it's this 135 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,140 S9: bidding war between the sibling faction. And in this case, 136 00:06:29,140 --> 00:06:31,810 S9: I guess it was really led by Shiv and Logan 137 00:06:31,810 --> 00:06:35,589 S9: and Tom. On the other hand, they're trying to acquire 138 00:06:35,589 --> 00:06:38,740 S9: the Pearce media empire. This is like a return of 139 00:06:38,740 --> 00:06:41,320 S9: the Pierces in the show. Nan Pearce is sort of 140 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,660 S9: the matriarch of this family, is making a return played 141 00:06:43,660 --> 00:06:46,780 S9: by the wonderful Jerry Jones the kind of closest comp 142 00:06:46,779 --> 00:06:49,060 S9: for this family in the real world seems to be 143 00:06:49,060 --> 00:06:51,310 S9: something like The New York Times. It's sort of a 144 00:06:51,310 --> 00:06:54,900 S9: progressive media empire that Logan has previously tried to acquire. 145 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,479 S9: Didn't really work out. I don't totally understand why he's 146 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,350 S9: trying to buy them again, just as he's about to 147 00:07:02,350 --> 00:07:05,830 S9: sell the company to Gojo. Do either of you have 148 00:07:05,830 --> 00:07:08,500 S9: any business insight into what's going on there? 149 00:07:08,650 --> 00:07:10,510 S11: No. I thought the exact same thing, though I didn't 150 00:07:10,510 --> 00:07:13,540 S11: quite understand how that fit into the arc of the 151 00:07:13,540 --> 00:07:17,440 S11: Gojo deal. And yeah, it's a bit confusing because is 152 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,120 S11: he going to quickly buy it and then that will 153 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,910 S11: become part of the Gojo deal? Yeah, I wasn't sure 154 00:07:21,910 --> 00:07:23,170 S11: if that was just something where you were supposed to 155 00:07:23,170 --> 00:07:24,160 S11: not question it. 156 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,230 S10: Yeah, I don't know either. I mean, I know nothing 157 00:07:26,230 --> 00:07:28,510 S10: about business, but it seems like it's positioned as either 158 00:07:28,510 --> 00:07:30,670 S10: a sweetener to the deal, which seems like an awfully 159 00:07:30,670 --> 00:07:34,450 S10: big sweetener or something for Logan to be left with. 160 00:07:34,450 --> 00:07:36,520 S10: I mean, that's kind of what he wanted at the start, right? 161 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,250 S10: To buy this company and dismantle it for parts. And 162 00:07:39,250 --> 00:07:41,560 S10: if that's a new project for him, it could be something. 163 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,920 S10: But it's not made super clear other than just to 164 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:46,720 S10: bring these people back into the story and create a 165 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,910 S10: new tension point, which, you know, I accept. 166 00:07:48,910 --> 00:07:51,460 S9: Yeah, I think that's right. It's probably just a sort 167 00:07:51,460 --> 00:07:54,400 S9: of interesting plot device to set up that battle between 168 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,980 S9: the two of them. The siblings motivation to buy the 169 00:07:56,980 --> 00:07:58,870 S9: company is also a little bit confusing that we sort 170 00:07:58,870 --> 00:08:02,430 S9: of see them at the start pitching this new media 171 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,920 S9: company called the 100, which is described at one point 172 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,450 S9: as Substack meets. The Economist meets The New Yorker, and 173 00:08:09,450 --> 00:08:12,600 S9: that seems demented, but is also so funny because I 174 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,050 S9: guarantee you right now very serious media people are pitching 175 00:08:16,050 --> 00:08:18,930 S9: to VC people that exact same idea. And I think 176 00:08:18,930 --> 00:08:21,510 S9: it's hilarious that it's like the butt of a joke. 177 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:23,250 S9: What did you think about the Hundred Thomas? Did it 178 00:08:23,250 --> 00:08:24,000 S9: get you excited? 179 00:08:24,090 --> 00:08:26,110 S11: It got me so excited because it really is. It's 180 00:08:26,110 --> 00:08:28,230 S11: just like so meta and I couldn't help but like, 181 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,720 S11: did either of you guys pause and read the like, 182 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,600 S11: in the pitch deck? Oh, yeah. It was so good that, like, 183 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,460 S11: the terms they use, they were like an. 184 00:08:35,460 --> 00:08:38,610 S13: Indispensable bespoke information hub. 185 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,740 S12: And then I go the hundred Greatest expert. 186 00:08:40,770 --> 00:08:43,530 S11: It's the antidote to the modern malaise of empty calories. 187 00:08:43,530 --> 00:08:45,690 S11: Like it was just buzzwords, like as many as they 188 00:08:45,690 --> 00:08:48,030 S11: could possibly stuff into five lines. 189 00:08:48,030 --> 00:08:52,020 S12: Restaurants, one stop info shop, high calorie info, snacks. 190 00:08:52,020 --> 00:08:53,969 S10: It's like clickbait for smart people. 191 00:08:53,970 --> 00:08:55,860 S11: Yeah, it's amazing. I thought that was great. But then 192 00:08:55,860 --> 00:08:57,540 S11: the worst part was I was like, I'd probably sign 193 00:08:57,540 --> 00:08:59,190 S11: up to the hundred. I'd probably pay for it. 194 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,090 S10: I think it's revealing, though, the way that they spoke 195 00:09:03,090 --> 00:09:05,100 S10: about it as well, because even when they're delivering this 196 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:07,560 S10: pitch and even when they're speaking to each other, it's 197 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,790 S10: so rote and soulless and empty and like they just 198 00:09:11,790 --> 00:09:15,630 S10: running through the motions, even as excited as they say 199 00:09:15,630 --> 00:09:17,970 S10: they are about it, it's not until there's a prospect 200 00:09:17,970 --> 00:09:21,000 S10: of taking on their dad or getting the best out 201 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,250 S10: of a deal that they're actually excited about something and 202 00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:25,470 S10: it's something they don't care about. As Roman says, it's 203 00:09:25,470 --> 00:09:27,270 S10: talking to an old lady about newspapers. 204 00:09:27,270 --> 00:09:31,079 S9: Yeah, totally. So let's talk about that actual battle between them. 205 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:34,410 S9: I think you're right, Meg, that really what that whole 206 00:09:34,410 --> 00:09:36,690 S9: story is about is just to create a situation where 207 00:09:36,690 --> 00:09:40,680 S9: we explicitly see those three siblings up against their dad. 208 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,040 S9: I thought it was really interesting decision to have Shiv 209 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,460 S9: sort of lead the sibling group and have Tom, who's 210 00:09:47,460 --> 00:09:51,240 S9: now basically become Logan's right hand man, lead the kind 211 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:58,110 S9: of Logan Waystar Royco group. When we left Shiv and Tom, 212 00:09:58,380 --> 00:10:01,380 S9: there was like clearly a betrayal, but we weren't sure 213 00:10:01,380 --> 00:10:05,460 S9: where that would go. Here they are having a trial separation. 214 00:10:05,460 --> 00:10:07,740 S9: By the end of the episode, they're divorced. We'll talk 215 00:10:07,740 --> 00:10:10,230 S9: about that in a bit more detail. What did you think, Meg, 216 00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:13,199 S9: about the fact that we had those two swinging against 217 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,020 S9: each other in this bidding war as they're going from 218 00:10:16,020 --> 00:10:18,270 S9: six to 7 to 8 to 9 to 10 billion? 219 00:10:19,110 --> 00:10:21,870 S10: It makes a lot of sense for where we left off. 220 00:10:21,870 --> 00:10:25,410 S10: I think in the last season it makes sense for 221 00:10:25,410 --> 00:10:27,900 S10: Shiv to be leading the siblings like that, especially against 222 00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:30,209 S10: a group like Pearce, because she's seen as the more 223 00:10:30,210 --> 00:10:33,390 S10: progressive one, the more tolerant one for Tom. I feel 224 00:10:33,390 --> 00:10:36,480 S10: like he's on an almost trial from Logan, you know, 225 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,810 S10: like he's stepped up and he's said, I'm keen to 226 00:10:39,809 --> 00:10:42,330 S10: prove myself I can be an asset. He was an 227 00:10:42,330 --> 00:10:46,600 S10: asset in making that, you know. Betrayal go through with 228 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,360 S10: the divorce and the season three finale. But now he's 229 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,209 S10: got to kind of prove that that's a long term 230 00:10:52,210 --> 00:10:56,380 S10: advantage for Logan. And we probably differ on this, but 231 00:10:56,380 --> 00:10:58,809 S10: I think he fails pretty miserably. 232 00:10:59,170 --> 00:11:02,470 S9: Yeah, so they end up not winning. So Logan has 233 00:11:02,470 --> 00:11:04,900 S9: the inside run on this. The siblings get a whiff 234 00:11:04,900 --> 00:11:07,569 S9: of it, then they jump in and put this outrageous 235 00:11:07,570 --> 00:11:09,880 S9: kind of $10 billion bid. And there's a really funny 236 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,580 S9: sort of discussion where Roman's basically like, Do you realize 237 00:11:12,580 --> 00:11:14,530 S9: how much money we're talking about? You guys are kind 238 00:11:14,530 --> 00:11:16,090 S9: of crazy, extremely divisible. 239 00:11:16,090 --> 00:11:18,270 S13: I mean, you do know what half $1 billion is, right? 240 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:22,540 S13: $500 Million? Yeah. So a million is a thousand thousand. 241 00:11:22,540 --> 00:11:26,950 S13: You do know that. So 500 times a thousand thousand 242 00:11:26,950 --> 00:11:29,079 S13: dollars of actual money that could be could be spending 243 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,650 S13: on fucking snowmobiles and sushi. How do you. 244 00:11:32,650 --> 00:11:34,839 S9: Feel about the way that that ended up? The siblings 245 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,990 S9: have now abandoned the 100 the media setup that you 246 00:11:37,990 --> 00:11:39,880 S9: and I were really excited about? Thomas They've bought this 247 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,870 S9: legacy media empire kind of despite their dad, they spending 248 00:11:43,870 --> 00:11:47,170 S9: $10 billion that they don't have yet. That money comes 249 00:11:47,170 --> 00:11:50,110 S9: from when Logan sells the company to Gojo. Do you 250 00:11:50,110 --> 00:11:51,820 S9: think it is a real winner? Is it a bit 251 00:11:51,820 --> 00:11:54,130 S9: of a Pyrrhic victory for the siblings? 252 00:11:54,460 --> 00:11:57,400 S11: I think it's hard. I think in in succession world 253 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,730 S11: it actually is a win because everything in that world 254 00:12:00,730 --> 00:12:03,459 S11: is like delusion, really. Like the money that they're beating 255 00:12:03,460 --> 00:12:07,120 S11: doesn't exist. The deal with Gojo doesn't exist. Like it's 256 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,790 S11: all kind of make believe. But I do think you 257 00:12:09,790 --> 00:12:11,380 S11: can see I mean, the proof is in the pudding 258 00:12:11,380 --> 00:12:13,750 S11: in terms of Logan's reaction. He's a man that doesn't 259 00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:17,829 S11: really properly get like ruffled easily. And even though he 260 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,679 S11: gave them the congratulations on coming up with the biggest number, 261 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,170 S11: that was like a big L for Logan. You know, 262 00:12:23,170 --> 00:12:24,579 S11: normally he's the one that can come up with the 263 00:12:24,580 --> 00:12:27,160 S11: biggest number or at least come out on top. So 264 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,060 S11: I think just purely that they got that moment where 265 00:12:31,059 --> 00:12:33,099 S11: Nan was like, No, I'm not speaking to Logan anymore. 266 00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:36,040 S11: That that is a win. Whether it's hollow in the end, 267 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,410 S11: I suppose we'll see. But I think if we've learned 268 00:12:38,410 --> 00:12:41,200 S11: anything from succession, it's that when you kind of even 269 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,680 S11: get an early edge on Logan, it typically doesn't end 270 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,170 S11: well for you. What I thought was really interesting, though, 271 00:12:47,170 --> 00:12:50,950 S11: is that with Tom, like Logan loves to have a two. 272 00:12:50,950 --> 00:12:54,910 S11: I see that he knows he's smarter then like it 273 00:12:54,910 --> 00:12:57,580 S11: was the same with Kendall and it's the same with Tom. 274 00:12:57,580 --> 00:13:00,910 S11: But I actually have a feeling that Tom could really 275 00:13:00,910 --> 00:13:03,339 S11: be this season's surprise package. He's, you know, he is 276 00:13:03,340 --> 00:13:06,310 S11: very smart. And I think if given room to kind 277 00:13:06,309 --> 00:13:09,970 S11: of like, flex his intellect and his ruthlessness, I'd be surprised. 278 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,130 S11: I see. Like, if he doesn't come out on top. 279 00:13:12,130 --> 00:13:15,219 S9: Yeah, that's really interesting. I think. I think one of 280 00:13:15,220 --> 00:13:16,719 S9: the things that stood out to me in the whole 281 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,140 S9: interaction is that you have this line from Nan, who 282 00:13:20,140 --> 00:13:22,690 S9: is in the middle of this bidding war, and she's like, 283 00:13:22,690 --> 00:13:25,870 S9: she's obviously playing a role of naivete to try and 284 00:13:25,870 --> 00:13:27,940 S9: just leverage the the best so she can. But she 285 00:13:27,940 --> 00:13:30,880 S9: says something so interesting. She says, How is your financing? 286 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:32,830 S14: Not that I understand at all. 287 00:13:32,830 --> 00:13:35,439 S9: I don't really understand how like, this finance stuff works. 288 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,540 S9: And Kendall says, that's cool. My people talk to you, 289 00:13:37,540 --> 00:13:39,340 S9: old people. We'll just to kind of talk about numbers. 290 00:13:39,340 --> 00:13:40,600 S15: It's robust. 291 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,780 S12: Tell us and our team can talk to your people. 292 00:13:43,780 --> 00:13:44,939 S14: And in terms of your future. 293 00:13:44,950 --> 00:13:46,990 S9: And it is a reminder that no one like we 294 00:13:46,990 --> 00:13:48,550 S9: don't get business like you keep talking about how you 295 00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:50,920 S9: don't get business. I don't think Kendall or Shiv or 296 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,160 S9: Roman understand business at all. I think they understand throwing 297 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,949 S9: big numbers to try and win something. I think one 298 00:13:56,950 --> 00:13:59,140 S9: of the things this episode reminded me of is that 299 00:13:59,140 --> 00:14:02,350 S9: they actually have no good ideas. There's no reason why 300 00:14:02,350 --> 00:14:06,400 S9: they should be considered media geniuses. And I think that 301 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,360 S9: when that deal is done and Logan calls them up 302 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,320 S9: and says basically, Congratulations, you idiot, you just said the 303 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,920 S9: bigger number. I think he's obviously unhappy to lose the company, 304 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,520 S9: but I think he's more unhappy that the only thing 305 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,520 S9: his kids who he once thought could be his successors 306 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,430 S9: know how to do is just say more numbers. They 307 00:14:27,430 --> 00:14:29,739 S9: don't have a smart play. They're not doing their own 308 00:14:29,740 --> 00:14:32,200 S9: thing that he keeps sort of nudging them towards. Ultimately, 309 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,050 S9: they've just said, Here's $10 Million, which seems like an 310 00:14:35,050 --> 00:14:38,500 S9: absurd price for this company. That was valued, I think 311 00:14:38,500 --> 00:14:41,170 S9: early in the episode, something like 6 to 7 billion. 312 00:14:41,170 --> 00:14:42,940 S9: I kind of thought he was a bit disappointed in 313 00:14:42,940 --> 00:14:44,290 S9: the siblings by the end. 314 00:14:44,290 --> 00:14:46,210 S10: Yeah, I don't think it's that much of a win, honestly. 315 00:14:46,210 --> 00:14:48,340 S10: The hundred would have been a better play. At least 316 00:14:48,340 --> 00:14:51,970 S10: it was their idea and something new and fresh. I mean, 317 00:14:52,090 --> 00:14:53,350 S10: is it? Who knows? But. 318 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:59,950 S9: Um, let's talk more about Logan. So I think his 319 00:14:59,950 --> 00:15:03,100 S9: arc through this episode is pretty interesting. When we when 320 00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:06,880 S9: we see him at the start, he seems pretty forlorn 321 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,860 S9: and unhappy that his kids aren't at his birthday. What 322 00:15:11,860 --> 00:15:14,080 S9: did you make of the whole birthday party situation? 323 00:15:14,140 --> 00:15:15,460 S16: It's a pretty sad party. 324 00:15:15,580 --> 00:15:17,739 S10: But then again, he was sad at his 80th as well, 325 00:15:17,740 --> 00:15:19,960 S10: and all his kids were there with their families. So 326 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:20,710 S10: I don't know. And that's. 327 00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:21,370 S9: What kind of kicked off. 328 00:15:21,370 --> 00:15:23,950 S10: The whole show. Yeah. I mean, I think we see 329 00:15:23,950 --> 00:15:26,410 S10: him hit his saddest when he kind of leaves the 330 00:15:26,410 --> 00:15:30,400 S10: party with his henchmen and has that sad little dinner 331 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,550 S10: at this diner by themselves. And he says something like. 332 00:15:33,550 --> 00:15:34,660 S17: You're a good guy. 333 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:36,790 S18: Thank you, sir. 334 00:15:38,110 --> 00:15:39,040 S8: You're my pal. 335 00:15:39,580 --> 00:15:42,010 S10: You're my you're my pal, aren't you? You're my best pal, 336 00:15:42,010 --> 00:15:43,810 S10: which is just thoroughly depressing. 337 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:44,920 S8: You're my best. Off. 338 00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:52,360 S10: Thank you. But I think it shows where he's at 339 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,340 S10: at the moment and that, you know, these things do 340 00:15:54,340 --> 00:15:56,440 S10: actually matter to him in some way. And whether that's 341 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,350 S10: losing the kids or whether it's potentially losing this company, 342 00:15:59,350 --> 00:16:02,229 S10: which he's worked for his whole life, he is at 343 00:16:02,230 --> 00:16:06,070 S10: this moment of like existential angst about what it all means. 344 00:16:06,070 --> 00:16:08,770 S10: He essentially has this big soliloquy about what is life 345 00:16:08,770 --> 00:16:11,380 S10: and what are people. And nothing tastes the same as 346 00:16:11,380 --> 00:16:11,800 S10: it did. 347 00:16:11,950 --> 00:16:16,479 S8: What is a person that has values and aims, but 348 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,150 S8: it operates in a market marriage market? 349 00:16:20,170 --> 00:16:24,460 S10: In any other show that would be this crushing, like, 350 00:16:24,850 --> 00:16:28,030 S10: emotional moment. But this one, it's like off set with 351 00:16:28,030 --> 00:16:29,920 S10: all these funny moments, you can almost miss it. How 352 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,240 S10: sad that actually is. 353 00:16:31,390 --> 00:16:34,030 S9: It does feel like this is a real sad moment 354 00:16:34,030 --> 00:16:35,650 S9: for Logano. There are a couple of sad moments for 355 00:16:35,650 --> 00:16:36,340 S9: Logan Thomas. 356 00:16:36,340 --> 00:16:38,930 S11: Yeah, that was incredibly depressing. That scene when he's just 357 00:16:38,930 --> 00:16:41,800 S11: like sitting with the help, being like, You're my best buddy. 358 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,729 S11: But it's it's funny because with Logan, you can tell 359 00:16:45,730 --> 00:16:49,000 S11: at that birthday party, like even he's having a bad 360 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,580 S11: time because like, he, like he loves to hate his kids, 361 00:16:51,580 --> 00:16:53,440 S11: but he still loves them and they're not there. And 362 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,360 S11: like that absence is not an amount of money that 363 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,160 S11: can kind of cover that up. But it's so funny 364 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,130 S11: with Logan because even when he wants to, like, maybe 365 00:17:00,130 --> 00:17:03,430 S11: thaw his heart out and reach out, it becomes a negotiation. 366 00:17:03,430 --> 00:17:05,260 S11: It's like, can we get a he'll give you a 367 00:17:05,260 --> 00:17:07,330 S11: text message. And the kids are like, No, we want 368 00:17:07,330 --> 00:17:10,600 S11: to call. And then Kerry's like, he's happy to do 369 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:15,370 S11: a text. Like, it's just this constant transaction and everything's negotiation. 370 00:17:15,369 --> 00:17:18,040 S11: It must be so exhausting to live in that world. 371 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:19,750 S11: I'm so glad I'm poor. 372 00:17:20,020 --> 00:17:21,970 S10: But I would say I would say even the scene 373 00:17:21,970 --> 00:17:24,910 S10: where he asks everyone to roast him, that's a kind 374 00:17:24,910 --> 00:17:27,040 S10: of sign of missing his kids. You know, you don't 375 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,070 S10: have Roman in the corner throwing out little cheeky lines 376 00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:31,840 S10: about his dad and he might miss that. 377 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:33,640 S9: And then Greg gives it a crack and just get 378 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:34,630 S9: shut down immediately. 379 00:17:34,630 --> 00:17:36,070 S11: Oh, so good. You're mean. 380 00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:39,240 S12: You're mean. You're mean. You're a mean old man. You're 381 00:17:39,369 --> 00:17:43,270 S12: a mean old bastard. And you scare the life out 382 00:17:43,270 --> 00:17:45,730 S12: of folks. That's your thing. You're scaring me right now. 383 00:17:45,730 --> 00:17:48,190 S12: And that's why I don't even know what to do. 384 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,700 S9: Can we talk about how Logan ended the episode? Thomas? 385 00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:56,109 S9: That scene where he's watching ATN his news network, and 386 00:17:56,109 --> 00:17:58,270 S9: he's sitting there on the couch and there's this blue 387 00:17:58,270 --> 00:18:00,760 S9: light on his face and he's unhappy. And he calls 388 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,160 S9: up said, What did you make of that whole interaction? 389 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:04,930 S9: And that is a way to close out the episode. 390 00:18:05,050 --> 00:18:08,560 S11: Yeah, I mean, I think Jesse Armstrong has a a 391 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,960 S11: device he likes to use, which is the closer of 392 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,240 S11: the episode is often a hint to be like, This 393 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:14,800 S11: is what we're talking about, this is what we're looking 394 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,740 S11: at for this season. And I thought it was very telling. 395 00:18:17,740 --> 00:18:18,940 S11: You know, the fact that he gets on the phone 396 00:18:18,940 --> 00:18:21,730 S11: to Sid, who's like running ATN and he basically blows 397 00:18:21,730 --> 00:18:23,770 S11: her up about this news host, a kind of Sean 398 00:18:23,770 --> 00:18:27,580 S11: Hannity type on on Fox and he says to Sid, like, 399 00:18:27,580 --> 00:18:28,000 S11: who is. 400 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,840 S8: This fucking lunk anyway? He looks like a ballsack and 401 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:32,770 S8: a toupee. 402 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,350 S11: Are you, are you losing it? Are you, are you like, 403 00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:37,570 S11: are you still on the ball? And it feels very 404 00:18:37,570 --> 00:18:40,270 S11: much like a conversation he is having with himself. And 405 00:18:40,270 --> 00:18:43,659 S11: Sid is essentially a proxy because you get the feeling 406 00:18:43,660 --> 00:18:46,240 S11: that Logan I mean he would never have. I guess 407 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,450 S11: the emotional vulnerability to say this, but is feeling like 408 00:18:49,450 --> 00:18:53,770 S11: finally maybe am I losing it, am I out of touch? 409 00:18:53,770 --> 00:18:56,700 S11: Am I not as ruthless as I once was? 410 00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:59,890 S8: Are you losing it, Sid? I'm all over it. Are 411 00:18:59,890 --> 00:19:01,570 S8: you fucking losing it? 412 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,020 S11: And so, yeah, I thought that was telling. I mean, 413 00:19:05,020 --> 00:19:06,369 S11: whether or not I'm reading too much into that, I 414 00:19:06,369 --> 00:19:08,979 S11: don't know. But it felt like a moment where Logan 415 00:19:08,980 --> 00:19:11,020 S11: was like the facade dropped for a minute. 416 00:19:11,020 --> 00:19:14,110 S9: And just before we see that Logan scene, we sort 417 00:19:14,109 --> 00:19:18,240 S9: of see I don't really want to call it a 418 00:19:18,250 --> 00:19:21,760 S9: meeting of the minds, but this quite devastating scene, I thought, 419 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,840 S9: between Tom and Shiv. How do you feel about the 420 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,990 S9: way that that story's played out in this episode from 421 00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:32,510 S9: the very start? We can see that they're clearly on 422 00:19:32,510 --> 00:19:35,690 S9: the rocks. We then find out that they're separated. They're 423 00:19:35,690 --> 00:19:39,170 S9: about to get divorced. Shiv comes back to their house. 424 00:19:39,170 --> 00:19:43,010 S9: Tom's a bit surprised and they sort of cement their 425 00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:45,469 S9: divorce there. They lie on the couch and they sort 426 00:19:45,470 --> 00:19:48,470 S9: of hold hands. And I found it quite raw. It 427 00:19:48,470 --> 00:19:51,500 S9: felt like quite a realistic portrayal of what a marriage 428 00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:54,050 S9: in that stage of breakdown would look like. What do 429 00:19:54,050 --> 00:19:56,660 S9: you think we should be taking away from that interaction? 430 00:19:56,660 --> 00:20:00,260 S10: Yeah, it was pretty crushing, actually. And every line that 431 00:20:00,260 --> 00:20:02,480 S10: Tom says in that interaction, even though he has some 432 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,750 S10: of the funniest lines in this episode, is just heartbreaking 433 00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:07,580 S10: in the way he delivers them. I could see. 434 00:20:07,580 --> 00:20:10,010 S6: If I if I can make love to you. 435 00:20:14,050 --> 00:20:18,040 S10: I think I kind of saw that as Shiv. And 436 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,380 S10: it feels strange to say considering what it is, but 437 00:20:20,380 --> 00:20:22,360 S10: it felt like a bit of a victory lap, like 438 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,230 S10: she'd just got this win over Tom. She was the 439 00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:28,270 S10: tougher one in the negotiation. She got the win at 440 00:20:28,270 --> 00:20:29,830 S10: the end of the day and she was like, I'm 441 00:20:29,830 --> 00:20:32,020 S10: going to get the win in this situation as well. 442 00:20:32,020 --> 00:20:33,550 S10: I'm going to I'm going to be the one strong 443 00:20:33,550 --> 00:20:36,250 S10: enough to make the call to say, This is it. 444 00:20:36,250 --> 00:20:38,800 S10: It's my decision. I don't care about you anymore. 445 00:20:39,670 --> 00:20:46,160 S3: I'm tired. So. But you can. You can stay there 446 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:46,880 S3: if you like. 447 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,790 S10: And hurt him, which it does. I mean, it's crushing. 448 00:20:49,790 --> 00:20:51,710 S9: I have a slightly different read on that, but I'm 449 00:20:51,710 --> 00:20:53,660 S9: going to save it for when we rank the characters 450 00:20:53,660 --> 00:20:56,780 S9: because I think I essentially have a flip on who 451 00:20:56,780 --> 00:21:00,050 S9: I think comes out of this situation better out of time. 452 00:21:00,050 --> 00:21:03,709 S9: And Shiv, should we get to our favorite lines of 453 00:21:03,710 --> 00:21:06,169 S9: the episode, please? This was a really tricky I mean, 454 00:21:06,170 --> 00:21:07,490 S9: I feel like every episode this is going to be 455 00:21:07,490 --> 00:21:10,820 S9: tricky because I wrote a list of like ten lines 456 00:21:10,820 --> 00:21:13,340 S9: as I was watching this episode and even some sort 457 00:21:13,340 --> 00:21:16,400 S9: of throwaway lines that are not really meant to be heard, 458 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,350 S9: but you just sort of hear people muttering them. It's 459 00:21:18,350 --> 00:21:21,230 S9: the writing is so good, as we all know. Meg, 460 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:22,670 S9: talk me through what you chose. 461 00:21:23,180 --> 00:21:25,760 S10: I could have chosen every single line between Greg and 462 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,910 S10: Tom relating to Greg's date that he brought to this 463 00:21:28,910 --> 00:21:30,800 S10: birthday party. It's so good. 464 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,150 S9: That's amazing that we didn't even talk about that. That's 465 00:21:32,150 --> 00:21:34,070 S9: like a b-plot that runs throughout this episode. 466 00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:37,040 S11: That's one of the great plots in TV. That was amazing. 467 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:43,910 S10: Yeah. The romance of Greg and Bridget. Random fuck. Yeah. 468 00:21:43,910 --> 00:21:47,450 S10: So the line I have chosen is Greg explaining exactly 469 00:21:47,450 --> 00:21:49,340 S10: what happened to Tom, and he said. 470 00:21:49,790 --> 00:21:52,220 S12: Put our hands down each other's pants. 471 00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:54,470 S10: Right? We had our hands down each other's pants and 472 00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:56,750 S10: had a bit of a rummage. And Tom says. 473 00:21:57,170 --> 00:22:00,170 S6: Did you rummage to fruition? Did you rummage to fruition? 474 00:22:00,170 --> 00:22:00,740 S10: Greg? 475 00:22:00,830 --> 00:22:01,939 S12: Can I not say. 476 00:22:02,510 --> 00:22:05,149 S6: Well, you've accidentally made him a sex tape, Greg. 477 00:22:05,780 --> 00:22:09,290 S10: Which I think is poetry. I think it's actually beautiful. 478 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,270 S9: Rummage fruition is an incredible sentence that literally didn't exist 479 00:22:14,270 --> 00:22:18,530 S9: until this episode. Thomas You picked a similar, a similar line. 480 00:22:18,530 --> 00:22:22,520 S9: You were also seduced by the Greg Bridget Love story. Well, I'm. 481 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,740 S11: Actually going to switch it up on you. Oh, I'm 482 00:22:24,740 --> 00:22:27,290 S11: going for a slightly different one. Also, Tom and Greg 483 00:22:27,290 --> 00:22:30,219 S11: related though Tom and Greg adjacent. So obviously I you know, 484 00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:32,389 S11: I thought the Bridget storyline was really funny and I 485 00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:35,780 S11: think succession is at its best when the characters are 486 00:22:35,780 --> 00:22:39,560 S11: insulting people that like aren't in their world. And when, 487 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,050 S11: you know, Bridget is kind of carrying this handbag, it 488 00:22:42,050 --> 00:22:44,690 S11: looks a bit awkward. It's not a handbag worth tens 489 00:22:44,690 --> 00:22:45,980 S11: of thousands of dollars like the rest of them. And 490 00:22:45,980 --> 00:22:47,030 S11: he says, What's. 491 00:22:47,030 --> 00:22:48,440 S4: Even in there, huh? 492 00:22:49,070 --> 00:22:51,260 S6: Flat shoes for the subway, her lunch pail. 493 00:22:51,260 --> 00:22:51,679 S4: What's in the. 494 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,780 S11: Bag? Flat shoes for the subway. You could slide that 495 00:22:53,780 --> 00:22:55,520 S11: thing across the floor after a bank job. 496 00:22:55,550 --> 00:22:58,220 S6: You could slide it across the floor after a bank job. 497 00:22:58,220 --> 00:23:00,709 S12: Well, whatever. She's another tick on the chair. 498 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,490 S11: And I just thought, like, those particular descriptors were so good. 499 00:23:04,490 --> 00:23:06,830 S11: Like the fact that, you know, Tom, even though he 500 00:23:06,830 --> 00:23:09,200 S11: is in this world, is savvy enough to know that 501 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,389 S11: the common man might put their normal shoes in their 502 00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:13,010 S11: bag when they go to their job. It's just like 503 00:23:13,010 --> 00:23:15,679 S11: it's so cutting and says so much about what he 504 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,010 S11: thinks about Greg's date, but like so specific. So I thought, yeah, 505 00:23:19,010 --> 00:23:20,060 S11: that that really made me laugh. 506 00:23:20,090 --> 00:23:22,669 S9: It also reminded me of this theme that has been 507 00:23:22,670 --> 00:23:26,300 S9: throughout all seasons of the show, this idea of NPCs 508 00:23:26,300 --> 00:23:29,270 S9: like not real people. The way that those guys talk 509 00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:33,590 S9: about civilians is like, she's just this poor, irrelevant person 510 00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:34,760 S9: and to their fair game. 511 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,530 S11: Yeah, It's like, I mean, these are the people that 512 00:23:36,530 --> 00:23:39,770 S11: we make our money off, but they like, they're just targets. 513 00:23:39,770 --> 00:23:41,990 S11: But I also thought that the sliding across the floor 514 00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:44,060 S11: after a bank job was just such a funny visual 515 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,250 S11: because it was an enormous bag. Like he was completely right. 516 00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:50,359 S10: It's amazing how eloquent Tom can be in those situations. 517 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,280 S10: And speaking to people like Greg, which he sees himself 518 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,500 S10: as above, but then he speaks to Logan and he 519 00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:56,060 S10: can't even string a sentence together. 520 00:23:56,090 --> 00:23:58,399 S9: He just melts down. Yeah, I agree with you, Thomas. 521 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,500 S9: I think Tom was right that the bag was big 522 00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:02,389 S9: and hideous. Deserved the. 523 00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:04,550 S10: He was great as well. I love her asking Logan 524 00:24:04,550 --> 00:24:07,350 S10: for a selfie and saying congrats on the deal catching. 525 00:24:08,730 --> 00:24:12,920 S9: Um. My my my line is from Roman who I 526 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,399 S9: think is consistently, like so funny. And it's kind of 527 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,830 S9: halfway through the episode where they're deciding to pivot away 528 00:24:18,830 --> 00:24:21,590 S9: from the hundred and bid for the Pierce Media empire 529 00:24:21,650 --> 00:24:21,970 S9: like this. 530 00:24:22,010 --> 00:24:25,280 S13: All right. So you want to fly there, you know, 531 00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:28,580 S13: like Nan Pierce's little Windsor dog show, bitch. 532 00:24:28,580 --> 00:24:31,700 S9: And he's needing to be convinced a little bit. Bye bye, 533 00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:35,000 S9: Shiv and Logan, who are really excited. And he's like, okay, 534 00:24:35,330 --> 00:24:36,350 S9: you want to fuck Dad? 535 00:24:36,350 --> 00:24:38,960 S13: Like, you want to fuck Dad, You want to fuck Tom? 536 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,129 S13: I'm the only one who wants to set up a 537 00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:42,680 S13: business as a business and doesn't want to fuck anyone. 538 00:24:43,460 --> 00:24:45,440 S9: Which is kind of incredible because it works on a 539 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,689 S9: couple of levels. It works on like he's actually interested 540 00:24:47,690 --> 00:24:50,659 S9: in creating something good, not just getting revenge at Logan 541 00:24:50,660 --> 00:24:53,540 S9: or Tom, but also there's this constant thing throughout the 542 00:24:53,540 --> 00:24:56,629 S9: show about him being like asexual and not wanting to 543 00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:59,540 S9: fuck people even when they win the deal. At the end, 544 00:24:59,540 --> 00:25:03,140 S9: Kendall's like, Let's celebrate with champagne, let's party. And Roman's like, 545 00:25:03,140 --> 00:25:06,169 S9: I'm going to go home and jerk myself off basically aggressively. 546 00:25:06,170 --> 00:25:06,560 S11: I think he's. 547 00:25:06,740 --> 00:25:11,330 S9: Aggressively. Um, great stuff. All right. This next segment is 548 00:25:11,330 --> 00:25:14,209 S9: one that we've called Jerry. What? 549 00:25:15,170 --> 00:25:19,820 S14: You disgusting little pig. How pathetic. 550 00:25:21,050 --> 00:25:23,720 S9: It's pretty self-explanatory by the name. We're going to keep 551 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,440 S9: an eye on one of successions most interesting and kind 552 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,640 S9: of funniest minor characters. Jerry, who is very senior part 553 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,760 S9: of Waystar Royco. She's in the inner sanctum of Logan, 554 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,010 S9: and she sort of pops up. She's played a big 555 00:25:37,010 --> 00:25:39,650 S9: role in some seasons. She's played a lesser role in others. 556 00:25:39,650 --> 00:25:41,750 S14: Can I remind you, Roman, that so far as I'm concerned, 557 00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:44,290 S14: nothing has ever. Happened between us other than of a 558 00:25:44,290 --> 00:25:45,250 S14: professional nature. 559 00:25:45,850 --> 00:25:46,179 S13: Got to be. 560 00:25:46,180 --> 00:25:49,240 S9: Curious. She made an appearance in this one. But really, 561 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,520 S9: just to sort of sit there looking quite stressed. You're 562 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,940 S9: still in the inner sanctum. Logan asks her to roast 563 00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:58,659 S9: him and she doesn't. I mean, any vibes from you 564 00:25:58,660 --> 00:26:01,360 S9: guys maybe starting with you? Thomas As to where Jerry 565 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,030 S9: is sitting in the grand scheme of things at this stage? 566 00:26:04,030 --> 00:26:05,889 S11: Yeah, it was interesting. I mean, I think we all 567 00:26:05,890 --> 00:26:10,480 S11: kind of agreed that Jerry presents an interesting prospect because 568 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,540 S11: she's so she's as close as you can be to 569 00:26:13,540 --> 00:26:16,330 S11: the family without being related. She's been part of the 570 00:26:16,330 --> 00:26:18,850 S11: royal journey forever. She she kind of knows how to 571 00:26:18,850 --> 00:26:22,869 S11: navigate Logan's moods and everything like that. But you've got 572 00:26:22,869 --> 00:26:24,459 S11: the sense at the end of last season, she was 573 00:26:24,460 --> 00:26:27,310 S11: maybe starting to tick away in her own mind and 574 00:26:27,310 --> 00:26:29,320 S11: make some moves. I mean, we didn't get much of 575 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,690 S11: her last night. Like you said. We basically saw her 576 00:26:31,869 --> 00:26:34,780 S11: not engage in Logan's game. And he tried to kind 577 00:26:34,780 --> 00:26:36,040 S11: of he tried to get her. He was like, oh, 578 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,860 S11: you received any funny pictures lately? Like, you know, touching 579 00:26:38,859 --> 00:26:42,850 S11: on the on Roman being a sex pest. But yeah, 580 00:26:42,940 --> 00:26:44,590 S11: I mean, it just seemed like she was kind of 581 00:26:44,590 --> 00:26:46,540 S11: taking it all in. I didn't kind of get an 582 00:26:46,540 --> 00:26:50,169 S11: obvious read on what, what was in store for her. 583 00:26:50,290 --> 00:26:51,070 S9: Meg Any Jerry. 584 00:26:51,070 --> 00:26:53,619 S10: Thoughts? I think she's smart to keep her head down 585 00:26:53,859 --> 00:26:56,500 S10: as the big play. Also she still CEO. 586 00:26:56,530 --> 00:26:57,430 S9: I guess technically. 587 00:26:57,430 --> 00:26:57,880 S16: Yeah. Yeah. 588 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,369 S10: She's doing all right. She's in a good position, I guess. 589 00:27:00,940 --> 00:27:04,510 S10: I love that she often has this play when something 590 00:27:04,510 --> 00:27:07,450 S10: dicey is happening and someone has to deliver bad news 591 00:27:07,450 --> 00:27:09,190 S10: to Logan and she would just go to everyone else. 592 00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:11,859 S10: Like I think you should. You're such a trusted advisor. 593 00:27:11,980 --> 00:27:13,000 S9: She's actually really smart. 594 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,780 S10: It's very smart. Yeah. And as she says, the main 595 00:27:16,780 --> 00:27:19,629 S10: motivating factor behind all her decisions is how does it 596 00:27:19,630 --> 00:27:22,150 S10: serve my interests? So she's actually the only one playing 597 00:27:22,150 --> 00:27:22,720 S10: a good game. 598 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:23,140 S16: Yeah. 599 00:27:23,140 --> 00:27:25,929 S9: Yeah, totally. One of the last things we're going to 600 00:27:25,930 --> 00:27:27,429 S9: do in the app before we go to predictions is 601 00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:30,190 S9: sort of rank all of our characters in terms of 602 00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:32,740 S9: how they performed, who won and who lost. But before 603 00:27:32,740 --> 00:27:34,690 S9: we do that in this episode, I don't know if 604 00:27:34,690 --> 00:27:36,820 S9: this is going to be something I commit to every episode, 605 00:27:36,820 --> 00:27:40,990 S9: but I've created a new surprise segment called Oz's Fun 606 00:27:40,990 --> 00:27:45,340 S9: Fact Corner. Um, I like it rolls. 607 00:27:45,340 --> 00:27:45,910 S19: Off the tongue. 608 00:27:47,619 --> 00:27:49,780 S9: This is a weird thing. So at the end of 609 00:27:49,780 --> 00:27:52,390 S9: the episode, when Shiv and Tom are hanging out at 610 00:27:52,390 --> 00:27:55,090 S9: their giant, beautiful New York apartment, we see their dog 611 00:27:55,090 --> 00:27:57,909 S9: who I'm not sure we've really spent much time with before. 612 00:27:57,910 --> 00:28:01,900 S9: And the dog's name is mentioned, Mondale, which is such 613 00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:04,300 S9: a weird name. And I'm like, Why is that dog gone? Mondale? 614 00:28:04,300 --> 00:28:06,340 S9: And I was like, I think I know a guy 615 00:28:06,340 --> 00:28:09,760 S9: called Mondale. Turns out I was half right. I know 616 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,949 S9: of a guy called Mondale. I don't know him personally. 617 00:28:11,950 --> 00:28:14,710 S9: He's the now deceased former vice president of the United 618 00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:17,260 S9: States under Jimmy Carter. Your best mate. My best mate, 619 00:28:17,530 --> 00:28:22,210 S9: Walter Walter Mondale. In 1984, he ran against Ronald Reagan 620 00:28:22,210 --> 00:28:24,700 S9: for an election and holds the record for being the 621 00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:29,590 S9: biggest loser in Democratic presidential history. Basically, he lost 49 622 00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:33,130 S9: states and only won the District of Columbia. And his 623 00:28:33,130 --> 00:28:37,690 S9: home state of Minnesota and Minnesota is where Tom's from. 624 00:28:37,900 --> 00:28:39,700 S9: So I thought it was kind of interesting that Tom's 625 00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:43,510 S9: named his dog after this, like the Biggest Loser loser. Yeah. 626 00:28:43,510 --> 00:28:46,209 S9: Presidential history guy. But also with thought it was an 627 00:28:46,210 --> 00:28:48,520 S9: interesting and I'm not sure how much of this is deliberate, 628 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,060 S9: but it also sort of fits into this other undercurrent 629 00:28:52,060 --> 00:28:55,300 S9: in this season so far that the election is coming 630 00:28:55,300 --> 00:28:58,540 S9: up where 12 days from a presidential election, we don't 631 00:28:58,540 --> 00:29:00,880 S9: really know what the stakes are. We know that there's 632 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,940 S9: shift keeps talking about the fact that, you know, it's 1933, 633 00:29:03,940 --> 00:29:06,670 S9: we're on the cusp of something potentially terrible happening. She's 634 00:29:06,670 --> 00:29:09,970 S9: sort of realigned herself, it seems, with the Democrats. And 635 00:29:09,970 --> 00:29:13,120 S9: the Republicans seem to be this guy, Jared Mencken, who 636 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,270 S9: popped up in the last season. We think that's who 637 00:29:16,270 --> 00:29:18,910 S9: Logan has anointed. So I think there's just like a 638 00:29:18,910 --> 00:29:21,850 S9: couple of clues that the election and politics will play 639 00:29:21,850 --> 00:29:23,410 S9: a pretty big role in this season. 640 00:29:23,530 --> 00:29:27,310 S10: Mondale also seems like a good metaphor for Tom generally because, 641 00:29:27,310 --> 00:29:30,190 S10: I mean, even the name itself, it sounds so fancy 642 00:29:30,190 --> 00:29:32,050 S10: and striving and like it's trying to be part of 643 00:29:32,050 --> 00:29:35,380 S10: this high class society. And Mondale should have a great life, right? Like, 644 00:29:35,380 --> 00:29:37,540 S10: I mean, he has all the resources in the world, 645 00:29:37,540 --> 00:29:39,850 S10: but he's just locked in this little crate in this 646 00:29:39,850 --> 00:29:40,960 S10: big empty apartment. 647 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:41,590 S16: With getting true. 648 00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:43,090 S9: He's locked in. Yeah. 649 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:44,920 S10: Boy, Tom, poor Mondale. 650 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:45,950 S16: Yeah, I. 651 00:29:45,950 --> 00:29:49,450 S11: I got the feeling that the looming election will kind 652 00:29:49,450 --> 00:29:51,510 S11: of wreak havoc on this season because, yeah, she. You've 653 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,290 S11: kind of talked about it and she uses like pretty 654 00:29:53,290 --> 00:29:55,300 S11: dramatic terms where she's like, I think the world will 655 00:29:55,300 --> 00:29:58,150 S11: be different for us all after this. And whereas Logan 656 00:29:58,150 --> 00:30:00,250 S11: touches on it, I think because we haven't spoken about her, 657 00:30:00,250 --> 00:30:03,970 S11: but Kerry was a very curious part of this episode. 658 00:30:03,970 --> 00:30:08,410 S11: You know, she makes this really scathing comment when Greg is, 659 00:30:08,410 --> 00:30:10,420 S11: you know, trying to claim that he's a, you know, 660 00:30:10,510 --> 00:30:12,910 S11: honorary sibling and. 661 00:30:13,090 --> 00:30:14,140 S9: She's essentially replaced. 662 00:30:14,140 --> 00:30:17,560 S11: Marcia Yeah, She says Marcia's in Milan shopping forever. Yeah. 663 00:30:17,740 --> 00:30:21,130 S11: So I think she did, like, what, a life? Yeah. Seriously, 664 00:30:21,140 --> 00:30:23,110 S11: I like Marcia. You like you go Marcia. 665 00:30:23,260 --> 00:30:23,770 S9: Marcia played. 666 00:30:23,860 --> 00:30:25,450 S16: Cards. Well, Marcia is the winner, actually. 667 00:30:25,450 --> 00:30:28,150 S11: Yeah, really is the winner in absentia. But. But, you know, 668 00:30:28,150 --> 00:30:30,400 S11: he she asks Logan, are you okay? And he's like, Yeah, 669 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,490 S11: I'm fine. Like, I've got ATN. I've got the election. 670 00:30:33,490 --> 00:30:36,310 S11: Like he's obviously confident that whoever he has anointed is 671 00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:38,770 S11: going to clean up. But yeah, I get the feeling 672 00:30:38,770 --> 00:30:41,650 S11: that the election and whoever wins and whether it falls 673 00:30:41,650 --> 00:30:44,670 S11: into another like proxy. Out over the siblings versus Logan. 674 00:30:45,090 --> 00:30:47,010 S11: That will kind of be a big part of this season. 675 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,860 S9: Talking about winners and losers. This, I think, is going 676 00:30:49,860 --> 00:30:52,110 S9: to be one of the funnest chats we have. What 677 00:30:52,110 --> 00:30:53,430 S9: we're going to do is every episode, we're going to 678 00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:55,710 S9: pick a loser, each of us, and we're going to 679 00:30:55,710 --> 00:30:58,950 S9: pick three different winners. And the person who we say 680 00:30:58,950 --> 00:31:02,520 S9: won the most, we're going to allocate them three points. 681 00:31:03,630 --> 00:31:05,219 S9: The person we think came second. We're going to give 682 00:31:05,220 --> 00:31:08,459 S9: them two points. The person who came third, we're going 683 00:31:08,460 --> 00:31:11,570 S9: to give them one point. And what we're going to 684 00:31:11,570 --> 00:31:14,780 S9: do over the course of the season is keep a 685 00:31:14,780 --> 00:31:17,840 S9: running tally of who's winning and losing. Just so at 686 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,610 S9: the end of it, we can all say how wrong 687 00:31:19,610 --> 00:31:21,170 S9: we all were, because if there's one thing I know 688 00:31:21,170 --> 00:31:23,270 S9: about the show is it's not going to play out 689 00:31:23,270 --> 00:31:26,120 S9: as neatly as we have intended, but still a fun 690 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,270 S9: thing for us to do. Meg, why don't you take 691 00:31:29,270 --> 00:31:30,950 S9: it away? Why don't you start with who you think 692 00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:33,260 S9: lost and who you think won bigly? 693 00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:39,020 S10: I think Tom was wrong because as I said at 694 00:31:39,020 --> 00:31:41,510 S10: the start, I think he was he started in such 695 00:31:41,510 --> 00:31:43,910 S10: a strong position. He had this opportunity to prove himself 696 00:31:43,910 --> 00:31:47,150 S10: to Logan and he just failed miserably. He was the 697 00:31:47,150 --> 00:31:51,350 S10: one on the phone who couldn't negotiate well against Shiv, 698 00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:54,950 S10: who got totally outgunned. And I think the way that 699 00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:57,320 S10: Logan spoke to him about all that, it shows that 700 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,340 S10: he doesn't really respect Tom's moves, Tom's intellect, Tom's business smarts. 701 00:32:01,340 --> 00:32:05,030 S10: He respects Tom's connection to Shiv. All he asked of 702 00:32:05,030 --> 00:32:08,090 S10: Tom during all those negotiations was call your wife Tom, 703 00:32:08,660 --> 00:32:11,420 S10: and he couldn't deliver on the one thing he was 704 00:32:11,420 --> 00:32:14,180 S10: being asked of. And then he. I mean, couple that 705 00:32:14,180 --> 00:32:16,730 S10: with the crushing divorce at the end of the episode. 706 00:32:16,730 --> 00:32:18,350 S10: I don't think it leaves him in a good spot 707 00:32:18,350 --> 00:32:20,300 S10: at all. And I think he's the kind of person 708 00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:23,390 S10: who that will affect in all areas of his life 709 00:32:23,390 --> 00:32:24,950 S10: and he could crumble completely from here. 710 00:32:24,980 --> 00:32:26,810 S9: I hate that you're kind of convincing me. That's a 711 00:32:26,810 --> 00:32:28,910 S9: very good case. And so you've got Tom as the 712 00:32:28,910 --> 00:32:30,979 S9: ultimate loser and you had Shiv on top. 713 00:32:30,980 --> 00:32:32,690 S10: Yeah, I think you have to say Shiv came out 714 00:32:32,690 --> 00:32:36,700 S10: on top. And I mean, the idea of who is 715 00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:39,550 S10: a winner in succession is debatable anyway. But I'm going 716 00:32:39,550 --> 00:32:41,530 S10: to use the logic of the show in that she 717 00:32:41,530 --> 00:32:43,300 S10: got the deal done. She was the one the pieces 718 00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:46,390 S10: wanted to speak to. She was the most influential person 719 00:32:46,390 --> 00:32:49,210 S10: in making that not only decision to chase it, but 720 00:32:49,210 --> 00:32:53,110 S10: to get it. In the end, she was the one 721 00:32:53,110 --> 00:32:56,140 S10: who made the call with Tom and she used the 722 00:32:56,140 --> 00:32:59,410 S10: divorce as part of the negotiation in the settlement. Like 723 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,930 S10: it's not moral or nice or fun, but everything she 724 00:33:04,930 --> 00:33:06,880 S10: set out to do, she achieved. And that makes it 725 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:07,600 S10: the winner of the yet. 726 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,280 S9: And who are your runners up? 727 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:09,940 S16: It's going to be Kendall. 728 00:33:09,940 --> 00:33:10,480 S10: And Roman. 729 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,360 S16: Just because part of the winning team part of the winning. 730 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,590 S10: Team and in that order I think because Kendall was 731 00:33:17,590 --> 00:33:21,520 S10: the most keen on the deal, he you know, he 732 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,090 S10: was most excited about the deal. And he obviously it's 733 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,160 S10: a rare win against Logan for him. So that means 734 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:27,700 S10: a lot. 735 00:33:28,390 --> 00:33:30,010 S9: He's got a great diet at the moment. Is all 736 00:33:30,010 --> 00:33:31,480 S9: just munching on those sunflower seeds. 737 00:33:31,570 --> 00:33:33,190 S11: Yeah, I thought the exact same thing. It was not 738 00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:37,090 S11: such a good luck. Just like insight into the wealthy. 739 00:33:37,090 --> 00:33:37,690 S11: Like I'm worried. 740 00:33:37,690 --> 00:33:39,550 S9: About how much you and I both see too much 741 00:33:39,550 --> 00:33:40,330 S9: of ourselves in Kendall. 742 00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:41,310 S19: Frankly. 743 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,810 S11: Yes. Gonna unpack that later, man. 744 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,660 S10: And Roman gave 1.2. Because, you know, he got the 745 00:33:49,660 --> 00:33:52,380 S10: deal done, but he wasn't stoked about it to begin with. 746 00:33:52,390 --> 00:33:54,430 S9: So Thomas, who was your loser? 747 00:33:54,820 --> 00:33:57,160 S11: I went the big man. I went Logan as a loser. 748 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,190 S11: It actually felt really good. I was happy with my decision. 749 00:34:00,190 --> 00:34:04,390 S11: And because I think, look, in in succession terms, he 750 00:34:04,390 --> 00:34:07,719 S11: lost the deal. So that to me, even if the 751 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,570 S11: kids won it in a way that was clumsy and 752 00:34:10,570 --> 00:34:13,839 S11: incredibly expensive, Logan lost that deal and he doesn't like 753 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,110 S11: to lose things. He had a really sad birthday party 754 00:34:17,110 --> 00:34:19,120 S11: where not many people spoke to him, and then he 755 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,100 S11: went out to dinner with someone who he pays a 756 00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:23,200 S11: salary and asked him if they were. 757 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:24,580 S16: Friends with his best pal. 758 00:34:24,580 --> 00:34:27,340 S11: Yeah, exactly. So, like, all in all, that's a pretty 759 00:34:27,340 --> 00:34:28,390 S11: sad day, even if you. 760 00:34:28,420 --> 00:34:30,190 S9: And that's Graham. I like going out with dinner with you. 761 00:34:30,190 --> 00:34:31,180 S9: And I'm your boss. 762 00:34:31,690 --> 00:34:32,560 S19: That's mine. 763 00:34:32,890 --> 00:34:35,500 S11: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, but I up your stock. So. 764 00:34:36,700 --> 00:34:38,470 S11: So I thought. Yeah, I thought Logan was was the 765 00:34:38,469 --> 00:34:41,230 S11: loser for me. I will probably. I mean, look, I'm 766 00:34:41,230 --> 00:34:43,270 S11: going to make so many predictions on this pod that 767 00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:45,130 S11: will prove wrong, but I would say that's probably the 768 00:34:45,130 --> 00:34:47,800 S11: last time that he will be in that spot. I 769 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,400 S11: had Shiv also was the winner again, because I think 770 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,520 S11: in succession it's all about like just net results. So, 771 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,980 S11: you know, she came in, she Roman was like so 772 00:34:56,980 --> 00:34:59,500 S11: excited about the hundred. She killed that and she switched them. 773 00:34:59,650 --> 00:35:03,190 S11: She crushed Tom in the negotiation. She won over none. 774 00:35:03,190 --> 00:35:05,739 S11: I think just like quantifiably, she had the most wins 775 00:35:05,739 --> 00:35:07,600 S11: and then yeah, similar to Mega I had Kendall and 776 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,500 S11: Roman is two and one. Generally, I was surprised by 777 00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:14,529 S11: the like, energy from the siblings. Like the first shot 778 00:35:14,530 --> 00:35:17,739 S11: you see of Kendall was so different to every other season. 779 00:35:17,739 --> 00:35:20,290 S11: He's like walking in. He's got his baseball cap on. 780 00:35:20,290 --> 00:35:23,469 S11: He's like he's like, you know, loving life again. He's 781 00:35:23,469 --> 00:35:26,560 S11: obviously so jazzed on a being back with his siblings 782 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,020 S11: and be like getting together to bring down his father. 783 00:35:29,020 --> 00:35:31,810 S11: That's like obviously what brings him joy. So yeah, I 784 00:35:31,810 --> 00:35:32,200 S11: thought that was. 785 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,290 S10: Really says it pretty plainly as well when he's like, Look, 786 00:35:35,290 --> 00:35:37,270 S10: I've done horse. I need something. 787 00:35:37,510 --> 00:35:38,350 S19: Yeah, exactly. 788 00:35:38,350 --> 00:35:40,780 S10: Right. If this isn't going to be the thing I 789 00:35:40,780 --> 00:35:42,400 S10: devote myself to, I need to find something else. So 790 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,160 S10: it's clear that he's just pouring himself into whatever is available, 791 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,290 S10: and that's the only time he appears like a normal 792 00:35:47,290 --> 00:35:47,920 S10: human being. 793 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,630 S9: He's only smoked it though, Remember? He's scared. 794 00:35:49,630 --> 00:35:50,950 S16: Of intravenous. Yeah, not a real junkie. 795 00:35:50,950 --> 00:35:52,780 S11: So, yeah, obviously Meg and I both chose Shiv. And 796 00:35:52,780 --> 00:35:54,430 S11: so we're curious to see, like, how you got it 797 00:35:54,430 --> 00:35:55,150 S11: so wrong. Odds. 798 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,509 S9: Well, let me, let me break it down for you. So, yeah, 799 00:35:58,510 --> 00:36:00,070 S9: I basically have the flip of you guys. I think 800 00:36:00,070 --> 00:36:04,210 S9: Shiv was the ultimate loser this episode, because I do 801 00:36:04,210 --> 00:36:08,140 S9: think that the so-called win of winning that company, I 802 00:36:08,140 --> 00:36:10,870 S9: think I don't think it's much of a win like 803 00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:14,260 S9: I think they spent $10 Million in a company that 804 00:36:14,260 --> 00:36:17,830 S9: is valued at $6 Million. That's $10 billion they don't have. 805 00:36:17,830 --> 00:36:20,470 S9: Even if they get all that money from the Gojo deal, 806 00:36:20,469 --> 00:36:25,150 S9: they've had to cobble together this weird consortium with Saudi, again, 807 00:36:25,150 --> 00:36:27,759 S9: a whole bunch of jokes about human rights abuses that 808 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,330 S9: that they're teaming up with. And I think the dissolution 809 00:36:31,330 --> 00:36:34,719 S9: of her marriage to Tom is actually not a great 810 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,799 S9: result for her. I think she got something out of 811 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,980 S9: that marriage. She got a sense of control whilst still 812 00:36:41,980 --> 00:36:45,430 S9: being independent in both her business and kind of sex 813 00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:49,120 S9: life as well. And then the fact that Tom has 814 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,360 S9: started to see other people that he sleeps with models 815 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,240 S9: is clearly something that is frustrating her and making her 816 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,660 S9: realize that perhaps she doesn't have the upper hand when 817 00:36:58,660 --> 00:37:01,270 S9: it comes to that relationship anymore. And I think I 818 00:37:01,270 --> 00:37:03,370 S9: sort of interpreted that last shot of them on the 819 00:37:03,370 --> 00:37:08,650 S9: bed together as Tom being liberated from a relationship that 820 00:37:08,650 --> 00:37:11,920 S9: was suffocating him. He's at Logan's right hand. Even if 821 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,260 S9: he didn't get this deal, he's in the inner sanctum, 822 00:37:14,260 --> 00:37:19,180 S9: whereas Shiv doesn't have anyone really close to her that 823 00:37:19,180 --> 00:37:22,120 S9: was 100% loyal to her, which Tom was up until 824 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,310 S9: the end of last season. So that's kind of why 825 00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:27,790 S9: I think she's in the worst state. I think she's 826 00:37:27,790 --> 00:37:31,480 S9: been in over the three now four seasons of the show. 827 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,370 S9: I gave Tom my three points in this. I said 828 00:37:33,370 --> 00:37:38,080 S9: that he ended up on top because just he is 829 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,589 S9: so close to Logan. He got a deal wrong, but 830 00:37:41,590 --> 00:37:45,009 S9: he's still there and he's free from this relationship to Shiv. 831 00:37:45,010 --> 00:37:48,430 S9: That seemed to be the thing keeping him the most crushed. 832 00:37:48,430 --> 00:37:50,230 S9: But I don't know. Both of you jumping at the 833 00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:52,030 S9: bit to tell me again how wrong I am. 834 00:37:52,330 --> 00:37:54,640 S11: No, I think, like I said, I think we I mean, 835 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,469 S11: time will tell. And this is the beauty of making 836 00:37:56,469 --> 00:37:59,890 S11: predictions in a ten episode season so that in like nine, 837 00:38:00,010 --> 00:38:01,330 S11: nine weeks from now we can be like, Well, we 838 00:38:01,330 --> 00:38:03,280 S11: really cooked that one. We're all wrong. And the actual 839 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:04,140 S11: winner is, you know. 840 00:38:04,180 --> 00:38:07,089 S9: Mondale Yeah. I mean, I predicted that Carrie would be 841 00:38:07,090 --> 00:38:08,109 S9: pregnant at the start of this. 842 00:38:08,410 --> 00:38:10,719 S11: Yeah, that was cool. So much for the walnut theory. 843 00:38:11,590 --> 00:38:15,580 S10: I think. I think every victory in succession has to 844 00:38:15,580 --> 00:38:18,730 S10: be judged on what it means that day because none 845 00:38:18,730 --> 00:38:21,880 S10: of them last. And so I think me choosing Shiv, 846 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,399 S10: it's just because in that moment she has won and 847 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,120 S10: that's what matters. And of course, she made a terrible deal. 848 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,860 S10: Of course it's not going to work out very well. 849 00:38:29,860 --> 00:38:31,990 S10: And of course she's going to be more lonely without Tom. 850 00:38:31,989 --> 00:38:36,550 S10: But it's what she was trying to do. And pulling 851 00:38:36,550 --> 00:38:39,340 S10: off a plan in succession is a victory in itself. 852 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,140 S9: No, a good point. Thanks for admitting I was right 853 00:38:41,140 --> 00:38:44,800 S9: as well. Um, my other runners up really quickly. So Greg, 854 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,189 S9: I think is worth a couple of points just because again. 855 00:38:48,370 --> 00:38:51,430 S9: His rise to the inner sanctum of this company. And 856 00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:54,790 S9: Logan's sort of inner circle is pretty extraordinary. And I 857 00:38:54,790 --> 00:38:58,359 S9: think even him going at Logan in that room when 858 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,700 S9: Logan's asking to be roasted, I think Logan respects that. 859 00:39:00,730 --> 00:39:03,700 S9: He respects the fact that Greg is going toe to toe. 860 00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:06,430 S9: And Greg also says when he has that conversation with 861 00:39:06,430 --> 00:39:09,850 S9: Logan about Bridget, Logan kind of smiles. He's like, good 862 00:39:09,850 --> 00:39:11,380 S9: on you. Like, you sort of had sex with this 863 00:39:11,380 --> 00:39:13,630 S9: girl at this party. Like there's a bit of Logan 864 00:39:13,630 --> 00:39:14,950 S9: that is into that. I think no. 865 00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:17,469 S11: One has ever failed upwards harder than Greg, I swear 866 00:39:17,469 --> 00:39:19,300 S11: to God. Like, it's pretty extraordinary. 867 00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:22,120 S9: And last one, you mentioned her, Thomas Kerry. I think 868 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,160 S9: Kerry has gone from being someone who was sort of 869 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,100 S9: in the background of this show to being right there 870 00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:31,270 S9: running things. She clearly sees herself as a contender for 871 00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:34,060 S9: whatever the remnants of Waystar Royco are. And I think 872 00:39:34,060 --> 00:39:38,250 S9: she's one to watch this season as well. Let's round 873 00:39:38,250 --> 00:39:41,489 S9: it off with a very quick run through of our predictions. 874 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,160 S9: I think we've said enough caveats that we're not taking 875 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,339 S9: these too seriously. I don't think we're expecting this exact 876 00:39:47,340 --> 00:39:49,140 S9: stuff to play out. But I think it is interesting 877 00:39:49,140 --> 00:39:52,350 S9: to sort of look at a show, talk about what 878 00:39:52,350 --> 00:39:54,660 S9: we think it's trying to do and where the chess 879 00:39:54,660 --> 00:39:57,719 S9: pieces are moving and hold ourselves a little bit accountable 880 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,660 S9: for what happens in the following episode. My my main 881 00:40:00,660 --> 00:40:03,120 S9: prediction is I think there's a couple of breadcrumbs that 882 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,239 S9: have been left by the writers here that Roman is 883 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,470 S9: not long for this sibling faction. He was more into 884 00:40:10,469 --> 00:40:13,110 S9: the hundred than either of them. He was pretty reluctant 885 00:40:13,110 --> 00:40:15,629 S9: on the peace deal. And then at the end, when 886 00:40:15,630 --> 00:40:19,020 S9: Logan calls them and sort of expresses his frustration at 887 00:40:19,020 --> 00:40:22,500 S9: losing the deal, Shiv and Kendall are really excited and 888 00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:24,420 S9: they love it. They love that their dad's angry, but 889 00:40:24,420 --> 00:40:27,089 S9: Roman seems a little bit more concerned. He's like, Did 890 00:40:27,090 --> 00:40:30,120 S9: we screw this up and am I now really screwed 891 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,040 S9: when it comes to debt? So I think we'll see 892 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,680 S9: Roman start to peel away. Thomas, what do you think's 893 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:35,130 S9: going to happen? 894 00:40:35,610 --> 00:40:40,500 S11: I think that Shiv and Tom will reunite. I don't 895 00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:43,650 S11: think the separation is long for the world. You know, 896 00:40:43,650 --> 00:40:45,989 S11: there were still multiple moments in the episode where he 897 00:40:45,989 --> 00:40:50,730 S11: was feeding her information and not telling the Logan camp that. 898 00:40:50,730 --> 00:40:53,940 S11: So and even with the you know, I'm dating models 899 00:40:53,940 --> 00:40:56,250 S11: the way he almost asked permission to tell her that 900 00:40:56,250 --> 00:40:58,350 S11: he was on a date that wasn't a business meeting 901 00:40:58,350 --> 00:41:00,870 S11: with the model like he there is no man. 902 00:41:00,900 --> 00:41:03,420 S10: It was a business meeting. He actually wasn't on a date. 903 00:41:03,570 --> 00:41:06,870 S11: Yeah, but he couldn't even, like, let her maybe think 904 00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:08,910 S11: he was on a date. I get the feeling there 905 00:41:08,910 --> 00:41:10,980 S11: dynamic is so set in stone that I reckon they're 906 00:41:10,980 --> 00:41:13,380 S11: going to kind of come back together. And I think 907 00:41:13,380 --> 00:41:16,270 S11: that pairing will continue to be a major kind of 908 00:41:16,290 --> 00:41:19,500 S11: plot device in the show. I also have this feeling, 909 00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:21,750 S11: and this is based on nothing more than looking at 910 00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:23,490 S11: the cast photos that were kind of doing the rounds 911 00:41:23,489 --> 00:41:26,640 S11: on the Internet earlier this week from the premiere. I 912 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,170 S11: have a feeling Stewie is going to come back in 913 00:41:28,170 --> 00:41:30,300 S11: a big way. I just have this feeling that we 914 00:41:30,300 --> 00:41:32,670 S11: haven't seen the last of Stewie. He's such a great character. 915 00:41:32,670 --> 00:41:34,980 S11: He kind of has everyone's number, so I just have 916 00:41:34,980 --> 00:41:36,239 S11: this feeling. Then the next few weeks, we're going to 917 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:37,050 S11: see a lot of Stewie. 918 00:41:37,050 --> 00:41:39,060 S9: I like that prediction. I love Stewie. I should also 919 00:41:39,060 --> 00:41:42,330 S9: say Thomas feel benefit. When Meg was reading through the 920 00:41:42,330 --> 00:41:44,370 S9: little doc that we've got with our notes and saw 921 00:41:44,370 --> 00:41:47,010 S9: your prediction, she was like disgusted. She was like, Thomas 922 00:41:47,010 --> 00:41:49,799 S9: is so wrong. I've never seen anyone so wrong. You 923 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,510 S9: seem to have very specific thoughts on this Shiv and 924 00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:52,320 S9: Tom thing. 925 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,240 S10: Yeah, I've said my piece. I don't think they're getting 926 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:54,839 S10: back together. 927 00:41:55,590 --> 00:41:55,980 S9: What is. 928 00:41:55,980 --> 00:41:56,610 S16: Your prediction? 929 00:41:56,610 --> 00:41:59,520 S10: My prediction is that obviously the steal is going to 930 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,010 S10: go wrong in some way. I think either Sandy and 931 00:42:02,010 --> 00:42:05,970 S10: Stewie will come in and kind of ruin the financing 932 00:42:05,969 --> 00:42:07,770 S10: or like it just won't work out for the kids. 933 00:42:07,770 --> 00:42:09,840 S10: And I think that could be where you see Roman 934 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,089 S10: get peeled away by something a bit more tempting from 935 00:42:12,090 --> 00:42:14,160 S10: his dad or the promise of a bit more power 936 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,590 S10: or something new. There's been a lot of clips in 937 00:42:16,590 --> 00:42:19,770 S10: the trailer of Roman talking to Madison. I mean, he 938 00:42:19,770 --> 00:42:22,259 S10: wouldn't be doing that if he was just with the kids. 939 00:42:22,380 --> 00:42:25,350 S10: And I think I don't think Tom and Shiv are 940 00:42:25,350 --> 00:42:28,350 S10: going to get back together. But I think that dynamic 941 00:42:28,350 --> 00:42:30,509 S10: will be really interesting for Tom in particular, because I 942 00:42:30,510 --> 00:42:33,990 S10: could see him being completely crushed by it. A deep 943 00:42:33,989 --> 00:42:37,799 S10: depression arc for Tom or going completely the other way. 944 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,770 S10: You know, if I'm completely freed from this really toxic 945 00:42:40,770 --> 00:42:43,200 S10: relationship with Shiv, maybe I can make the most out 946 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,990 S10: of it. Maybe I can just put my emotions aside 947 00:42:45,989 --> 00:42:48,150 S10: and go all out beast mode with Logan. 948 00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:48,420 S16: Yeah. 949 00:42:48,420 --> 00:42:50,490 S9: I feel like I don't want to keep treading ground here. 950 00:42:50,489 --> 00:42:52,170 S9: I think you're projecting a bit on Tom. I don't know. 951 00:42:52,170 --> 00:42:53,400 S9: I think. I don't think he seems. I don't know 952 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,469 S9: what's going on in your life. He's. He's fine. He's 953 00:42:55,469 --> 00:42:56,279 S9: having a great time. 954 00:42:56,610 --> 00:42:57,780 S16: Every line, he says, is the. 955 00:42:57,780 --> 00:42:59,190 S10: Most depressing thing I've ever. 956 00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:59,820 S16: Heard. 957 00:42:59,820 --> 00:43:02,100 S9: I think he looks great. As Shiv says, he's ripped. 958 00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:04,020 S9: He's having a good time. He's got his great dog, 959 00:43:04,020 --> 00:43:05,160 S9: he's got his great apartment. 960 00:43:05,940 --> 00:43:08,580 S11: He's got the break up bod. He's like, Tom's all right. 961 00:43:09,090 --> 00:43:09,390 S9: Maybe it's. 962 00:43:09,390 --> 00:43:10,170 S16: Time. This is deeply. 963 00:43:10,170 --> 00:43:12,390 S10: Depressing for both of you. What you think a healthy 964 00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:13,410 S10: man looks like? 965 00:43:14,130 --> 00:43:17,340 S11: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. A healthy man is, like, starving himself and. 966 00:43:17,489 --> 00:43:18,270 S19: Sleeping with models. 967 00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:21,960 S9: Hey, Thomas and Meg, thanks so much. That was a 968 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,540 S9: lot of fun. And I'm really excited about being on 969 00:43:24,540 --> 00:43:27,270 S9: this trip with you guys for the next ten weeks. 970 00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:30,000 S11: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks. 971 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,279 S9: This succession recap episode of The Drop was produced by 972 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,790 S9: Ruby Schwartz. If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of 973 00:43:41,790 --> 00:43:43,950 S9: The drop, make sure to follow us in your favorite 974 00:43:43,950 --> 00:43:46,890 S9: podcast app. Give us a review or better yet, share 975 00:43:46,890 --> 00:43:50,310 S9: it with a friend. I'm Osmond Fergie. See you soon.