Speaker 1: Money mindset I think plays so much into this how
Speaker 1: you were brought up and the money relationship that your
Speaker 1: parents had and then therefore instilled in you. What kind
Speaker 1: of conversations we're being had around money when you were
Speaker 1: growing up. This is I think what's stopping a lot
Speaker 1: of people from talking about it too, is that we're
Speaker 1: ashamed of maybe X, Y, and Z in our personal finance,
Speaker 1: and maybe we don't want to talk to someone about
Speaker 1: the goal that we're working towards because we don't think
Speaker 1: it stacks up to what someone else is working towards.
Speaker 1: And so looking at that and being really forgiving of
Speaker 1: yourself and kind to gentle with yourself, and understanding that
Speaker 1: probably a lot of other people are feeling the same way,
Speaker 1: they're just not talking about it.
Speaker 2: Good Thanks for downloading the show. This is Better Than Yesterday.
Speaker 2: Useful tools and useful conversations to help make your day
Speaker 2: today better than yesterday. Every single episode since twenty and thirteen.
Speaker 2: Mine as Olsha Gezburg and I've got a question. What
Speaker 2: happens to you when someone asks you about money? Depending
Speaker 2: on who you are and who's asking, that answer could
Speaker 2: vary wildly. You might get self conscious, You might get anxious.
Speaker 2: You might feel ashamed if you're me, you may be
Speaker 2: full of regret. You might get totally blank, feel bored.
Speaker 2: You might have nothing to say at all. You might
Speaker 2: launch into an impassion ten minute long monologue about your
Speaker 2: investments in your twenty year plan. We've all got different answers,
Speaker 2: But I'm going to ask my guest about money today.
Speaker 2: The way that she answers me, well, it's got to
Speaker 2: do with stuff she's learned in her own conversations about money.
Speaker 2: We'll get right to that after the break. Thanksful listening
Speaker 2: to the show. It's better than yesterday getting some guest
Speaker 2: Sylvia jeffrees in just a second. Just a heads up
Speaker 2: here if you want to come to the next Story
Speaker 2: Club show. It's on the of the July. Marley Silva,
Speaker 2: Merrick Watts, Phill O'Neil, Nadia Townsend, Zobe Notton Lodge and
Speaker 2: myself will be at the Factory Theater on the sixth
Speaker 2: of the July six thirty pm in Merrickfield. Would love
Speaker 2: to see you there. Jump on the Instagram to see
Speaker 2: what the show is all about and the linkers in
Speaker 2: the show notes if you want to get tickets While
Speaker 2: you're there. There's a link to buy the book. Pre
Speaker 2: order the book. So what now what? It'll be out
Speaker 2: on the fifth of Loyalist and i'd really appreciate your help.
Speaker 2: If you haven't got it yet, please get it. Get
Speaker 2: to you get five please. I'm recording the audiobook for
Speaker 2: it tomorrow with Cam. It's gonna be unreal. Can't wait
Speaker 2: to tell you all about it. So Sylvia Jeffries is
Speaker 2: my guest today. She's a friend of the show. Are
Speaker 2: you a friend of the show? Once you go on twice,
Speaker 2: I guess you are friend of the show. Sylvia Jeffries,
Speaker 2: she's come here to the house. Before this time we
Speaker 2: went and did it over at her place at Channel
Speaker 2: Line Headquarters, North Sydney. And today we're talking all about
Speaker 2: money because since the last time we spoke, Sylvia has
Speaker 2: launched her own podcast, The Payoff, which is all about
Speaker 2: extracting the most useful lessons about money and money management
Speaker 2: from some of the best financial minds around. And today
Speaker 2: you're going to hear some of that wisdom and some
Speaker 2: of the most important and most often repeated bits of
Speaker 2: advice that her guests have shared with her. More than that,
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about Sylvia's mindset when it comes
Speaker 2: to money, her journey, how she dealt with it in
Speaker 2: the past, and now what she's trying to teach her
Speaker 2: kids about it. I've got a lot of value out
Speaker 2: of this conversation with her. I reflected a lot on
Speaker 2: my own money management or mismanagement, depends on how you
Speaker 2: look at it. This conversation. It'll definitely get you to
Speaker 2: reflect on your own journey with money, but it's going
Speaker 2: to do it in a way that's calm, invites possibility.
Speaker 2: It does give you some clarity amid all of those
Speaker 2: weird feelings we spoke about earlier. Enjoyed the chat. The
Speaker 2: last time we spoke, you were at my house and
Speaker 2: it was very, very lovely. What's happened since the last
Speaker 2: time we spoke? You had? You know what plans were there? Well?
Speaker 1: Do you know what's so funny? I was just sitting
Speaker 1: down and writing before I came Upstairsyeah. I was writing
Speaker 1: an article for nine Honey about hobbies and how I
Speaker 1: don't have any, and I was just reflecting on this
Speaker 1: statement from Amy Pohler, who on a late night interview
Speaker 1: once said, as a working mum, I work and I mum,
Speaker 1: and that's it, which is the use of mum as
Speaker 1: a verb to me is just purely beautiful. And I
Speaker 1: think that word is often overlooked as a doing word
Speaker 1: because it is. And I get this thing that when
Speaker 1: people ask me how you been, what's been happening, and
Speaker 1: all I think is I work and I mum, and
Speaker 1: there's not a one in between.
Speaker 3: I go for runs, you know, in between. That's probably
Speaker 3: the closest thing I have to a hobby.
Speaker 2: Well, I let me, have you already posted the article.
Speaker 3: No, I haven't yet.
Speaker 2: Okay, good, look, I'll give you a line. My mum
Speaker 2: was a doctor until you know, right to the then
Speaker 2: when she got her diagnosis, and she used to say,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying you are, but she would say, over
Speaker 2: the age of forty, just you've got to make your
Speaker 2: body your hobby.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Interesting, Well, that's probably that's probably what I do. I
Speaker 1: go to the gym a couple of times a week.
Speaker 1: I'm starting to do the heavyweights because getting close to
Speaker 1: perimenopause age. So you know, I see it in my algorithm,
Speaker 1: you've got to do the heavyweights. And I run and
Speaker 1: sometimes I run with friends, and so I guess that's
Speaker 1: a hobby question.
Speaker 2: And tea that's a hobby. Cycling as a hobby, that
Speaker 2: is a hobby.
Speaker 3: You've got to make your body a hobby.
Speaker 2: And she would say, look, yeah, play golf, but don't
Speaker 2: be driving around. Of course you've got to walk that back. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: whatever it is. No train sets, you know. Yeah, got
Speaker 2: to get out there and make your body your hobby.
Speaker 3: Hitting.
Speaker 2: No knitting and you'll be fine. Yeah. No knitting, No,
Speaker 2: because you're just sitting. Okay, got to keep moving, run
Speaker 2: and knit. You can join a running slash knitting clob. Yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe croche is probably better.
Speaker 1: At the same time. Do you know what happened recently
Speaker 1: was my five year old he picked up this visor
Speaker 1: and because I always wear advisor when I run because
Speaker 1: my hair short, it like falls out and gets my eyes.
Speaker 1: I can't bear having my hair in my face. And
Speaker 1: he associates visors with running. And he got a visor
Speaker 1: and he said, Mama, I can go for a run
Speaker 1: with you now. And I was like, all right, let's go.
Speaker 1: And so we ran like along the beach track for
Speaker 1: about two and a half k's. We would walk up
Speaker 1: hills and then we'd run a little bit and stop
Speaker 1: at every bubbler and you know, it was very stop start,
Speaker 1: but he just was the happiest I've ever seen him,
Speaker 1: and it gave me so much mum joy. And we
Speaker 1: got to the end and I was like, all right, buddy,
Speaker 1: should we go meet Dadda and he can drive us home?
Speaker 1: And he goes, no, I want to run all the
Speaker 1: way back again, and we ran all the way back.
Speaker 3: Five one year old case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was amazing and it's it is the best
Speaker 1: five k's I've ever run.
Speaker 3: And I love that. I guess it is let's call
Speaker 3: it a hobby. Running is my hobby.
Speaker 1: I guess that by doing that, I'm doing something that
Speaker 1: I can, you know, get him involved in and maybe
Speaker 1: set some good examples for him as well in terms
Speaker 1: of exercise and looking after yourself. And for me it's
Speaker 1: a mental healthy And we've spoken about this before. Running
Speaker 1: is like my absolute circuit breaker when I'm having a
Speaker 1: bad day, and so hopefully he gets something positive out
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 3: But it's something I can do with him now, and
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: What a fantastic what a fantastic memory to Bill, What
Speaker 2: a great thing to model, and what a fun thing
Speaker 2: to do. Yeah, I mean, he's going to really fuck
Speaker 2: up your Strava. You're going to have Oh I like
Speaker 2: com on buddy.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I didn't record that, right, Yeah, yeah, No,
Speaker 1: that's not a run for I'm just an other account. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it can just be under his name account exactly for
Speaker 1: him up. Yeah, you can't mess with my stats.
Speaker 2: You ever have those end of your titles you go, oh,
Speaker 2: it's like he was a ten thousand still he's a
Speaker 2: ten thousand kilometer cyclist. To get ten thousand a year cycling, wow,
Speaker 2: and he's still doing it. He's like ten years of it.
Speaker 3: Incredible.
Speaker 2: What that's a lot, a lot of volume.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he doesn't need a five year old sewing.
Speaker 2: Down, but I do love that. And maybe it's the visor,
Speaker 2: maybe something in the visor, but the whole is perhaps
Speaker 2: why the hobby is a thing, is it is an
Speaker 2: identity aside from the job and the mummy.
Speaker 3: And the mumming exactly. You need something in between.
Speaker 2: Yes, it also helps, and it's one of the things
Speaker 2: that I would always talk about when it's if you're
Speaker 2: looking for the motivation of something. I'm the kind of
Speaker 2: person who I'm the kind of person who gets up
Speaker 2: in the morning and trains, all right, I would I
Speaker 2: have kettlebells downstairs. I'm kind of not gone to the
Speaker 2: gym at the moment because it's just too inconsistent. But
Speaker 2: I'm the kind of person who gets up at five,
Speaker 2: go downstairs, and I's wing kettle bells. That's great, And
Speaker 2: you tell yourself that for a couple of weeks, and
Speaker 2: then soon enough, I'm going to bed. Why because I
Speaker 2: get up in the morning and do kettle bells and
Speaker 2: it starts to become part of your identity. So it's
Speaker 2: a part of your identity that is purely for you
Speaker 2: and for something you enjoy, and it's not one of
Speaker 2: the other two things. You can kind of get lost
Speaker 2: in it.
Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of people bag out people
Speaker 1: for posting their stratostats on Instagram and things like that,
Speaker 1: but I get it because it is it is that
Speaker 1: thing that gives you joy in life and a non
Speaker 1: social media sharing the things that you enjoy and not
Speaker 1: everyone needs to know how fast or slow is probably
Speaker 1: the better word. I run okay over ten k's or whatever,
Speaker 1: But I guess it is. It's a big part of
Speaker 1: who you are and what you do that sparks joy
Speaker 1: in inverted comments. Ye, in your life, in between the
Speaker 1: working and the parenting and the folding of laundry and
Speaker 1: the stacking of the dishwasher and everything else, it's that
Speaker 1: bit that you know gives you some freedom and some
Speaker 1: joy and some space.
Speaker 2: It's important, it is. And that's also I find a
Speaker 2: lot where the answers to questions show up. Does that
Speaker 2: happen for.
Speaker 3: You all the time?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do a lot of I mean, I mostly
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts on my runs these days, because for
Speaker 1: me it feels like two birds one stone. I'm learning
Speaker 1: while I'm running, and you know, you're trying to maximize
Speaker 1: your time in life. But I do do a lot
Speaker 1: of thinking, and it is when I get clarity on
Speaker 1: a lot of things. It's when I do have ideas.
Speaker 1: It's when I think about guests for podcasts or for
Speaker 1: Today Extra or things like that. It stimulates your brain
Speaker 1: in a way that nothing else can, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: So was it you know, on a run when you
Speaker 2: were thinking about I'm going to I'm going to get
Speaker 2: into the world of financial podcast.
Speaker 3: Well, it's probably listening.
Speaker 1: It was on a run listening to a lot of
Speaker 1: financial podcasts, all right, I think that definitely played into it,
Speaker 1: but it was also it was being on Today Extra
Speaker 1: and speaking almost on a weekly basis for a period
Speaker 1: of time. There about this generational wealth gap that is
Speaker 1: really evident in our society right now and is highly
Speaker 1: emotive as well. Younger generations feel like they're being locked
Speaker 1: out and are really upset about it for good reason,
Speaker 1: and then older generations. Sometimes some people in the older
Speaker 1: generations think, well, we had big challenges too, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not just them who've had it hard, and so
Speaker 1: you've got both sides kind of in this tug of
Speaker 1: war on this issue. So anyway, there's a lot there
Speaker 1: to explore. I genuinely do think that young Australians face
Speaker 1: really high and unique hurdles to financial independence and financial
Speaker 1: security in the long term. There's no doubt, and you
Speaker 1: only have to look in the news today. The average
Speaker 1: or the median capital city collective price in Australia has
Speaker 1: now hit them one million dollar month. It's almost one
Speaker 1: million dollars for the average house in Brisbane, which is
Speaker 1: now the second most expensive city in Australia. Sydney is
Speaker 1: the second least affordable city in the world. So like
Speaker 1: we are it's not just something of our imagination among
Speaker 1: young people in Australia.
Speaker 3: This is a real issue.
Speaker 1: It has really gotten away from us, and so there's
Speaker 1: so much to address, I think, in this issue. But
Speaker 1: what I really wanted to do was not just explore
Speaker 1: the issue, but find some people who are really smart
Speaker 1: in this area, who can offer some practical solutions and
Speaker 1: maybe some ideas about how to work within the current
Speaker 1: goalposts in a different and more creative way than perhaps
Speaker 1: our parents did.
Speaker 2: Because anyone would argue that the argument on the other
Speaker 2: side is that well everyone is and always has been,
Speaker 2: operating within the goalposts that have been set up and cracky.
Speaker 2: At the story Club show at Your Minder the other night,
Speaker 2: we were driving in there and I turned to Zoe,
Speaker 2: who was the co founder. We were driving up together.
Speaker 2: I said, like, thirty years ago, you could own a
Speaker 2: house in Sydney and have bought a weekend or up
Speaker 2: here on one kind of middle class income wage like
Speaker 2: a teacher or a train driver or someone who just
Speaker 2: you know, that kind of thing, and that was fine,
Speaker 2: and it was a very common thing to have a
Speaker 2: shack or a small house either on the central Coast
Speaker 2: or south of Sydney or in Queensland down on the
Speaker 2: Goldie like everybody. My folks did not, but we were
Speaker 2: uncommon ones. But he heard of an apartment on the
Speaker 2: Goldie and they did that with one wage, and they
Speaker 2: were operating within the rules of the time. And then
Speaker 2: the rules of the time shifted quite significantly, and the
Speaker 2: promise of what you get if you work hard and
Speaker 2: apply yourself has verry has changed a lot.
Speaker 1: And I think what you say there is a big
Speaker 1: part of why this discussion is so emotive, because it's
Speaker 1: this concept of if you work hard, you will achieve
Speaker 1: your goals, and a lot of people don't feel that
Speaker 1: that is a reality anymore. You can work hard, and
Speaker 1: you can work hard, and that home ownership is still
Speaker 1: going to be out of reach because in Sydney, you know,
Speaker 1: the average price is now close to all according to
Speaker 1: this stat that came out today, is close to one
Speaker 1: point five million. That's around thirteen times the average salary.
Speaker 1: You know, our parents were buying homes at about three
Speaker 1: or four times the average salary. And yes they had
Speaker 1: insane interest rates back then, but the principle was so
Speaker 1: much more achievable, and therefore the idea of saving for
Speaker 1: a deposit was so much more achievable as well. So
Speaker 1: it is way out of whack with salaries and wages
Speaker 1: at the moment, and that's where there is a huge
Speaker 1: hurdle for young people.
Speaker 2: I understand why, and I see, you know, with g
Speaker 2: she's twenty one and I've been living at home. I
Speaker 2: was living with my girlfriend at that time. I've been
Speaker 2: living out over for two years by then, and I
Speaker 2: was late, you know. But when I did move at
Speaker 2: home when I was nineteen, I lived three k's from
Speaker 2: my family. Yeah, not forty k's from my family. I
Speaker 2: don't think if Jim moved down, unless she moved in
Speaker 2: with eight people, she should be able to live anywhere
Speaker 2: near her uni, her work, or her friends. So who's
Speaker 2: going to do that. Who's going to distance themselves and
Speaker 2: you know, from their community and what keeps them safe
Speaker 2: and what thrives them and nourishes them. It's not going
Speaker 2: to happen.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: People will stay at home with their parents longer, right,
Speaker 1: And there is obviously an increasing number of people who
Speaker 1: are relying on the bank of mum and dad. Not
Speaker 1: everyone has that luxury, and then you have issues developing.
Speaker 1: This is something I've spoken to some of my guests
Speaker 1: about on the payoff these other issues at the other end,
Speaker 1: where some parents are being too generous, you know, God
Speaker 1: loved them, you know, trying to give their kids a
Speaker 1: leg up and end up getting themselves into financial stress.
Speaker 1: And we know that women over the age of fifty
Speaker 1: five are the most likely to the fastest rising group
Speaker 1: of homelessness in Australia. So you've got issues at every
Speaker 1: end of the scale here because of the disparity between
Speaker 1: generations at the moment.
Speaker 2: There's so many other factors when you think about it
Speaker 2: as well. If I like when I moved out at nineteen,
Speaker 2: it was an important lesson for me to learn. Oh oh,
Speaker 2: I can't brush my teeth because I don't have toothpaste.
Speaker 2: I don't have toothpast because I haven't brought any I
Speaker 2: haven't born it because I haven't got any money. Ah right,
Speaker 2: better sort this out. The consequences for not getting your
Speaker 2: shit together around your money are immediate. Yeah, though that
Speaker 2: kind of rubber band or the bottom isn't ever really there.
Speaker 2: Sometimes if the kids never leave home, and what does
Speaker 2: that do if you're you know, it's a bit old school.
Speaker 2: They leave home straight into a marital home. What does
Speaker 2: that do for someone.
Speaker 1: Who you're kind of missing that stage of life where
Speaker 1: you're out there really without a parachute, learning everything the
Speaker 1: hard way, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. What was your money story like when you're a
Speaker 2: young woman when you started working.
Speaker 1: Well, my first experience with that was I was seventeen
Speaker 1: when I went on my gap year. So as soon
Speaker 1: as I finished school in Queensland, a lot of us
Speaker 1: finished when we were seventeen, and I went straight tot.
Speaker 2: A lot smarter, exactly. We're just far more advanced and
Speaker 2: more mature.
Speaker 3: Exactly generally exactly.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So I moved to England as a seventeen
Speaker 1: year old, turned eighteen in the April of my gap
Speaker 1: year and worked in a school, earning eighty eight pounds
Speaker 1: a week, which was technically I was being reimbursed expenses
Speaker 1: and so sort of scraping through on a pittance. And
Speaker 1: I think my memory, obviously of my gap year is
Speaker 1: at times hazy for obvious reasons. But I think I
Speaker 1: only had to call my mum once for a lifeline,
Speaker 1: for a can you to send me a little bit
Speaker 1: of money? And I think it was halfway through my
Speaker 1: summer Kentiquy tour, calling from a phone in Corfu. I
Speaker 1: was going to say yeah, but yeah I did, I
Speaker 1: mean geez. I learned some really hard lessons on budgeting
Speaker 1: on that trip. But then when I came home. It
Speaker 1: wasn't long after that that I moved in with a
Speaker 1: friend for a while, and I kind of went in
Speaker 1: and out of mum's place for a few years. But
Speaker 1: I was working in pubs. I was working at nine
Speaker 1: really early on, as soon as I started UNI as well,
Speaker 1: so I had a part time job there, so I
Speaker 1: was managing my own budget very early. But I also
Speaker 1: as soon as I turned fourteen nine months, I went
Speaker 1: and got a job at Macer's right. Because we didn't
Speaker 1: have many like luxuries in our family growing up and
Speaker 1: third child, youngest of nine cousins, I wore a lot
Speaker 1: of hand me downs, but I loved clothes, so I
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to buy my own clothes and
Speaker 1: it so I went straight and got a job. And
Speaker 1: that's probably not great because I didn't really learn to
Speaker 1: say very well. I spent a lot of what I earned.
Speaker 1: I was never going beyond my means, but I didn't
Speaker 1: have good practices with savings and I look back on
Speaker 1: that and I think, oh, that's probably an area I
Speaker 1: could have done better at.
Speaker 2: It was a couple of times my phone got cut off,
Speaker 2: a couple of times my power got cut off early
Speaker 2: on as a consequence of like, oh, craker, haven't very
Speaker 2: mismanaged bills. My filing system involved putting the unopened envelope
Speaker 2: in a drawer and it got cut off, then it
Speaker 2: was time to pay. Yeah, that was how I kind
Speaker 2: of did it. But there was a point that showed up.
Speaker 2: It was once. It wasn't until I got to Channel V,
Speaker 2: to be honest, and I started working in television, and
Speaker 2: even then it wasn't for a lot of money, but
Speaker 2: I stopped worrying about my phone getting cut off. And
Speaker 2: that is a danger period then, because you've now got
Speaker 2: this ballast that can absorb silly decisions. And that's where
Speaker 2: I really needed to have kind of habits you're probably
Speaker 2: talking about, but I didn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's funny, isn't. I mean it's these
Speaker 1: are things that you kind of look back on now
Speaker 1: and you can see them for what they were. And
Speaker 1: I think probably for most of my life, I've been
Speaker 1: afraid of debt and afraid of financial risk. Investment like,
Speaker 1: investing was never a part of my plan in my twenties.
Speaker 1: It was something for rich people. You know, investing is
Speaker 1: for rich people, for people who have bucket loads of
Speaker 1: spare money. I can see now I'm thirty nine that
Speaker 1: investing isn't just for rich people. It's something you could
Speaker 1: start when you're twenty one with fifty dollars or one
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a month and start putting it away, you know,
Speaker 1: just automatically send that off into an account to invest,
Speaker 1: and over the next thirty years you're going to reap
Speaker 1: the rewards of that, right, But none of that was
Speaker 1: on my horizon when I was twenty and especially in
Speaker 1: my late twenties living in Bondai in a bachelorette pad
Speaker 1: with a couple of girlfriends, living our best lives.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I did have a credit card for a period of
Speaker 1: time living in Bondai, which was for those months when
Speaker 1: I just went a little bit over. I had a
Speaker 1: very firm limit on it. It was only a small one,
Speaker 1: but that was probably the worst of my money management.
Speaker 1: But I was in a bit of a yolo period
Speaker 1: of my life. I would describe it as and again
Speaker 1: I could have been much smarter with how I was
Speaker 1: prioritizing my money, and in hindsight, I have some regrets
Speaker 1: over that, but thankfully I was able to get on
Speaker 1: top of it easily because I kept a.
Speaker 3: Very firm limit on that.
Speaker 1: But I think that goes back to me being afraid
Speaker 1: of money growing up, being afraid of debt, being afraid
Speaker 1: of risk.
Speaker 2: Brought it on.
Speaker 1: Oh, just desperate for financial security, I think, and my
Speaker 1: mum modeled that to me.
Speaker 3: She was very frugal.
Speaker 1: She had to watch every penny and she did and
Speaker 1: she was very open with us about that when we
Speaker 1: were growing up too, so I was very aware of,
Speaker 1: I guess, what it was to budget for a family
Speaker 1: and what it is to meet your bills and your responsibilities,
Speaker 1: and you know, that was really stressful for her at times,
Speaker 1: but she got us through without ever having to pull
Speaker 1: the ripcord. You know, we were always comfortable and we
Speaker 1: were always given every opportunity in life as a result
Speaker 1: of that because Mum made sure that we had the
Speaker 1: space for that. So and how to prioritize, you know,
Speaker 1: the really important things in life as well. So so
Speaker 1: I guess through osmosis maybe that's where.
Speaker 3: That comes from.
Speaker 2: She worked and she mummed, she worked, and she mum
Speaker 2: mommed hard.
Speaker 3: She mummed really hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the same with the same with you know,
Speaker 2: my mom had four four kids and I was doing
Speaker 2: it alone from when the eldest was thirteen, and she
Speaker 2: worked so hard man and gave us the opportunities, like
Speaker 2: if we were interested in something and showed interest, she
Speaker 2: would go, Okay, you get to go, give it a go,
Speaker 2: and understood you talk about investing, but understood investing in
Speaker 2: your kid's interest in what engages them has such a
Speaker 2: compounding effect in their life. You want to with me,
Speaker 2: for we're going to with music, Like you really want
Speaker 2: to learn this, You're going to Okay, I'll buy the instrument,
Speaker 2: all right, you're going to practice, you're gonna do it? Okay, okay, great?
Speaker 2: What did you play guitar at first? Then bass and
Speaker 2: then everything else? But that's what led to everything, right,
Speaker 2: and that the idea of performance, in connecting with people
Speaker 2: through performance was it but her belief in me to
Speaker 2: do that and she did it with at my brothers.
Speaker 2: Whatever we were kind of into. She worked to the
Speaker 2: point where like and if we weren't interested in it,
Speaker 2: you know, it's okay, I wanted to give you that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and investing. Can you also talking about investing. When it
Speaker 2: came to sending Jeta, we managed to get her into
Speaker 2: a Fancays school in area. So the reason we lived
Speaker 2: in the apartment for.
Speaker 3: Those years, Yeah, sacrifices priorities.
Speaker 2: Is that really it's kind of the last financial decision
Speaker 2: you can really make to influence the outcome in life.
Speaker 2: Really after their eighteen that's on them. But we looked
Speaker 2: at at that as an investment. Absolutely looked at that
Speaker 2: as an investment. It's not always about index funds.
Speaker 3: And exactly you know, yeah.
Speaker 2: That sort of thing. It's investing in your kid's future
Speaker 2: and investing in the outcomes that they might have, that
Speaker 2: they might be independent themselves one day for sure. When
Speaker 2: you you mentioned the late twenties period and whether that's
Speaker 2: yet to come for you or it's in your past, whether.
Speaker 3: My late twenties are in my past.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, as far as money management goes, yes, there's
Speaker 2: always there's always money to party at some point, Like
Speaker 2: there's always.
Speaker 1: Going to go and have Sunday afternoon drinks down at
Speaker 1: the North Bonda RSL with your mates.
Speaker 3: You know you're not going to pass that up.
Speaker 2: No, you always find the money somewhere to pay for
Speaker 2: a couple of points or you know whatever. Extracurricular Yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess I could stretch.
Speaker 3: You to that rose, couple of roses.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, just yeah, sure. I mean there's under session, Okay,
Speaker 2: we can split a capture and then the days it's midnight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: But do you know, like back in that stage of
Speaker 1: my life, no one in my circle was talking about
Speaker 1: their financial goals. No one was talking And maybe I
Speaker 1: don't know where the line is here with men and women.
Speaker 1: I know, certainly more now in my age bracket, you
Speaker 1: get more men talking over a barbecue about what they've
Speaker 1: invested in or what's happening in the market with X,
Speaker 1: Y and Z, and not so much with women. But
Speaker 1: it is starting among my friendship circle now, And I
Speaker 1: feel like we should have been having these conversations twenty
Speaker 1: years ago because it would have given a lot of
Speaker 1: us more of a head start with some things they
Speaker 1: are And now that I understand more about this area
Speaker 1: of life as well, I can see the benefits of
Speaker 1: being a part of this conversation in your twenties.
Speaker 3: And that's again another part.
Speaker 1: Another reason for the podcast is opening up the conversation
Speaker 1: around money, which is so orkies and so uncomfortable for
Speaker 1: so many people to others who might not be having
Speaker 1: these conversations with their friends or their family because it
Speaker 1: isn't a natural part of a conversation for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, even in this day and age when but
Speaker 1: I think also younger generations have no option but to
Speaker 1: talk about it because things are so different. They have
Speaker 1: to be honest about what goals they're setting financially and
Speaker 1: what they're hoping to achieve and what they're doing with
Speaker 1: the extra one hundred dollars. I know, and that seems
Speaker 1: like a hard thing for a lot of people in
Speaker 1: a cost of living crisis. But if you've got to
Speaker 1: spend one hundred dollars every week, what do you do
Speaker 1: with it? And what's the best way to get something
Speaker 1: out of that in the long term?
Speaker 2: Seventeen legue multi that ends on Hina the outcome of
Speaker 2: Singapore and Match.
Speaker 3: Put it all in.
Speaker 2: You don't understand how hard this will payoff, Jeffrey, how
Speaker 2: much I'm going to pay out exactly going to get
Speaker 2: back one before and more the conversation around money as
Speaker 2: men talking about investing. It's only now that you speak
Speaker 2: about it. I so resisted it, or I was so.
Speaker 2: I was bored by people who started to talk like that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because that represented to me, you don't care about this moment.
Speaker 2: All you want to do is show that you're better
Speaker 2: than me. I was a very different place in my life.
Speaker 2: But I found it just so crass. And it was
Speaker 2: never the idea of I'm doing this now so that
Speaker 2: when I'm sixty, I don't have to work too hard
Speaker 2: and me and my kids would be fine. It was
Speaker 2: not that at all. It felt really like a pissing context.
Speaker 3: Oh, I get it.
Speaker 2: I hated it. So I didn't want to ever talk
Speaker 2: about it or know anything about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just for the finance bros. You know that
Speaker 1: kind of chat.
Speaker 2: And they were always tall and hot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, gray suits called.
Speaker 2: It John, Yes, they all rode.
Speaker 3: I know the guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I went to his wedding. He's a lovely guy.
Speaker 3: Page it by the way, that one.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I always found it. I didn't never understand.
Speaker 2: I didn't see it through the lens of that was
Speaker 2: available to me. So I felt it was like, no,
Speaker 2: I'm excluded from this. People talk about real estate trying
Speaker 2: to buy. I had two bass guitars stolen after a
Speaker 2: gig once, and I was I was unemployed. I'm playing
Speaker 2: in an Originals band in Brisbane at from the back
Speaker 2: of the Gabba Hotel? What do I do now? How
Speaker 2: do I I can't even play? I haven't going to
Speaker 2: get a guitar. I actually ended up taking a personal line,
Speaker 2: that's right. I took a person alone. Yeah, eighteen percent
Speaker 2: or two interest.
Speaker 3: For that, but it was the only way to get
Speaker 3: back out there and working.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it took a long time. And then when I
Speaker 2: hear the ads not on this podcast, but when I
Speaker 2: hear the ads for your paycheck is yours dot com
Speaker 2: or whatever, It's like, noop, don't do ever do that
Speaker 2: because that's such slippery slope. Sure is those sort of things?
Speaker 2: What kind of things should people in your conversations you
Speaker 2: had on your show, what kind of things do you
Speaker 2: look do you want people to look out for as
Speaker 2: a try to struggle for answers?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean we sort of look at this
Speaker 1: from every angle. We've looked at it from a Okay,
Speaker 1: if you can't get into the property market, what are
Speaker 1: some creative ways to do that. We spoke to Alice
Speaker 1: Stotz from Domain about that and she covers off the
Speaker 1: rent vesting co ownership and how to set up a
Speaker 1: contract for that as well to protect yourself into the future.
Speaker 1: We've got an upcoming interview with Jessica Irvine from Combank,
Speaker 1: who is the Queen of budgeting, and she's got some
Speaker 1: really great advice in there on how to crunch down
Speaker 1: your debt first and the steps that you need to
Speaker 1: take for financial security. If you are in that position
Speaker 1: where you were, where you feel like the debt is
Speaker 1: insurmountable and you've got to crunch that before you do
Speaker 1: anything else, then she's got great tips on that front.
Speaker 1: And then how to set up a really healthy looking
Speaker 1: budget that allows you to understand where every dollar is going.
Speaker 1: And it sounds really boring and tedious, but she makes
Speaker 1: it pretty good, pretty fun, pretty engaging, and it gives you,
Speaker 1: I think, more than anything, a sense of control over
Speaker 1: your money. And that's the topic we just did this week,
Speaker 1: which dropped is with clinical psychologist Rebecca Ray because money mindset,
Speaker 1: I think plays so much into this. How you were
Speaker 1: brought up and the money relationship that your parents had
Speaker 1: and then therefore instilled in you what kind of conversations
Speaker 1: we're being had around money when you were growing up.
Speaker 1: And she talks around the shame that a lot of
Speaker 1: us carry around money, and this is I think what's
Speaker 1: stopping a lot of people from talking about it too,
Speaker 1: is that we're ashamed of maybe X, Y, and z
Speaker 1: in our personal finance, and maybe we don't want to
Speaker 1: talk to someone about the goal that we're working towards
Speaker 1: because we don't think it stacks up to what someone
Speaker 1: else is working towards. And so looking at that and
Speaker 1: being really forgiving of yourself and kind to gentle with yourself,
Speaker 1: and understanding that probably a lot of other people are
Speaker 1: feeling the same way, they're just not talking about it.
Speaker 1: So and also entering a relationship with a new person,
Speaker 1: and how to set up your financial boundaries and goals
Speaker 1: and ensure that you're on the same page with all
Speaker 1: of that stuff, because that's so crucial as well. So look,
Speaker 1: we look at it from every people in the world
Speaker 1: of investment, people in the world of property, people in
Speaker 1: the world of self improvement as well, negotiating at work
Speaker 1: all of.
Speaker 2: It really and you mentioned the shame like the story
Speaker 2: that we have from when we're a kid. How in
Speaker 2: the conversations you've had, what do you think, what do
Speaker 2: you even start with getting your story together about and
Speaker 2: just at least having a look at it where it
Speaker 2: was and where you might like it to be.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is definitely a question for Rebecca Ray,
Speaker 1: who's the qualified psychologist authority.
Speaker 2: It's your podcast. This is how podcasts work. I have
Speaker 2: a thing, I have artworks before.
Speaker 3: It belongs to me. The answer belongs to me.
Speaker 1: It's what applies to a lot of things in life.
Speaker 1: Speaking to Rebecca, her take on it was basically, you
Speaker 1: have to be more forgiving and you have to be
Speaker 1: more accepting of yourself and not be so hard on yourself.
Speaker 1: But basically, she said, confronting those issues and taking actions
Speaker 1: and taking steps towards what you want to achieve is
Speaker 1: the way you're going to get over that feeling of shame.
Speaker 1: But I would definitely encourage people to listen to her
Speaker 1: views on that, because I'm not qualified to give anyone
Speaker 1: advice in terms of psychology. But it applies to a
Speaker 1: lot of things in life. You know, we beat ourselves
Speaker 1: up over so many things. In life, and I think
Speaker 1: so much of that is unjustified, and she unpacks a
Speaker 1: lot of that in that conversation.
Speaker 2: One of the reasons that we can often get into
Speaker 2: trouble with money, While we can get into trouble with
Speaker 2: either saving for something or not saving for something because
Speaker 2: it seems so insurmountable, it's because emotion is often involved
Speaker 2: in spending. Yes, I don't feel very good right now.
Speaker 2: You know it's going to make me feel good. This
Speaker 2: thing that I just were instagram that I didn't know
Speaker 2: existed a minute ago, but now I'm convinced. I can't
Speaker 2: live without.
Speaker 3: Put it in a basket.
Speaker 2: I have to open it and I have to click
Speaker 2: at it. And yeah, why not for equal payments? That
Speaker 2: sounds great bush.
Speaker 3: To dopamine hit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, How can we insulate ourselves from emotion playing
Speaker 2: with the plans that we have and the budgets that
Speaker 2: we are trying to keep together?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's one for Jessica Irvine.
Speaker 1: So let me just deflect to all of my very
Speaker 1: smart guests, who is very good at being specific around
Speaker 1: what you're working towards and setting those goals and sticking
Speaker 1: to them. She uses every highlighter under the sun to
Speaker 1: really get down in the weeds of your budget.
Speaker 2: That involves office works and then me just going, you
Speaker 2: know what, I really need a cross cut paper sder.
Speaker 3: Seriously, office works is her happy place and.
Speaker 2: I should probably there just invest in West Farmers that.
Speaker 3: It's a slippery slope, you know, once it's starting.
Speaker 1: You never go back exactly get you so plenty of
Speaker 1: different different colored highlighted well and there are so many
Speaker 1: ways to do this, but that's her method and it
Speaker 1: helps her to see very clearly which bucket, you know,
Speaker 1: is taking more than it's fair share from her budget
Speaker 1: month to month. And I think being really and this
Speaker 1: is something I'm starting to do a lot more, is
Speaker 1: being really specific about ou as a family financial goals too.
Speaker 1: What are we working towards, What do we hope for
Speaker 1: this to look like by the time we're sixty, At
Speaker 1: what point do we want to retire? Because this is
Speaker 1: sort of part of the theme that keeps emerging too,
Speaker 1: is that what you should be working towards in life
Speaker 1: is what is enough for you. And you have to
Speaker 1: be really clear in your definition of what is enough,
Speaker 1: what's going to make you happy. For some people, it's
Speaker 1: going to be owning the home that they can bring
Speaker 1: their family up in. For other people, it's going to
Speaker 1: be going to Europe once a year. For other people,
Speaker 1: it's going to be I don't know, having a vintage
Speaker 1: car or something.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: For some people, it's just you know, meeting the rent
Speaker 1: and having some flexibility to maybe travel a little bit
Speaker 1: on the.
Speaker 3: Side, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Everyone has different different goals in life, and I think
Speaker 1: the key is being really clear around what that goal
Speaker 1: is and knowing how you're going to get to it,
Speaker 1: because that way, you feel like you're in control of
Speaker 1: your money and you're not just rolling with what comes
Speaker 1: in month to month and seeing where you land.
Speaker 2: Just taking a moment from Sylvia, whose podcast is called
Speaker 2: The Payoff, you can find it where you're found on
Speaker 2: this podcast. We've got to play some ads. We'll be
Speaker 2: right back. As a journalist, and you mentioned earlier in
Speaker 2: the conversation, there is a growing gap in our country
Speaker 2: between people who don't worry about the phone bill and
Speaker 2: people who are still prepaid month to month, week to
Speaker 2: week and don't know where it's going to come from
Speaker 2: next month. That to me, I think is a challenge
Speaker 2: our country's really going to have to have a look at,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: This is something I spoke to Alice Stultz about. Is
Speaker 1: this concept which has been brought up in the newspapers
Speaker 1: recently of Sydney becoming a city without grandchildren. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: because people having children? Yeah, will if you're having if
Speaker 1: you're starting a family and you're trying to set yourself up,
Speaker 1: how could you afford and you're on the average salary,
Speaker 1: how can you afford to raise children in Sydney the
Speaker 1: second least affordable city in the world, And so people
Speaker 1: are moving further out. I mean, this is part of
Speaker 1: the reason why house prices are rising so fast in Brisbane,
Speaker 1: because people are moving north, or they're moving to the
Speaker 1: Central Coast or whatever. They're just getting out of the
Speaker 1: places that are far too expensive. And so then you've
Speaker 1: got the grandparents in Sydney left behind, who therefore lose
Speaker 1: access to the grandkids. And then the parents in the
Speaker 1: middle lose access to the grandparents who support their village
Speaker 1: and their support network. And that's kind of the demographic
Speaker 1: shift that we're looking at as a result of that
Speaker 1: financial disparity.
Speaker 2: As you said that, I don't feel tears coming to
Speaker 2: my eyes of how awful it is to make a
Speaker 2: kin munity split itself apart. Long it does like these
Speaker 2: are bigger things than just captaal gains tax and frankin
Speaker 2: credits and negative gearing. This is what keeps us as
Speaker 2: a community feeling like we belong with each other.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a big shift.
Speaker 1: And what's interesting in Australia in terms of housing supply
Speaker 1: and we all know supply is a big issue here
Speaker 1: and increasing it is critical to bringing down prices or
Speaker 1: at least slowing the growth of prices, is that we
Speaker 1: are a really undense nation. Our capital city is compared
Speaker 1: to other capital cities across the world, are not dense,
Speaker 1: and we still expect huge blocks of land in this
Speaker 1: country and so there need to be big opportunities, I
Speaker 1: think to grow these kind of mini cities and definitely
Speaker 1: increase the density. And you know, I think people are
Speaker 1: really open to living to living in apartments and that
Speaker 1: sort of life so long as there's enough green space around.
Speaker 1: But at the moment that's not even really an option
Speaker 1: for a lot of people because the prices are so
Speaker 1: high in Sydney. So so there are a lot of
Speaker 1: demographic shifts that are happening as a result of.
Speaker 2: This, and how that affects politics as well, because people
Speaker 2: tend to get more conservative as they get older, so
Speaker 2: the capital cities start to become overall way more conservative.
Speaker 2: What is that? What does that do for policy? As
Speaker 2: far as housing developments in western New South Wales or
Speaker 2: northern Queensland. That's wow. I had along all of this,
Speaker 2: I had a really transformative experience just a bit over
Speaker 2: ten twelve years ago when I went to business school.
Speaker 2: I was in Amsterdam. And have you been to Amsterdam.
Speaker 3: On the afore mentioned kentiquy to You probably.
Speaker 2: Don't remember that vague. I was a very sober person
Speaker 2: by the time. Yeah, I'm very grateful.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 2: But I stayed in the in the Canal Ring, in
Speaker 2: the ancient city like seven hundred years old, and it
Speaker 2: is the most densely populated part of the world, and
Speaker 2: it is hundreds of hundreds of years old, and the
Speaker 2: houses are smaller than this studio. Yeah, okay, And I
Speaker 2: remember I stayed airbnb someone's house. They were the creative
Speaker 2: director for a Dutch design magazine, so you can imagine
Speaker 2: the kind of that was just going on holidays. They
Speaker 2: wanted you know a month. I was every month they
Speaker 2: wanted someone to take care of the place.
Speaker 3: Is.
Speaker 2: You can imagine the kind of stuff this person would
Speaker 2: have in the house, right you talked about concept of enough.
Speaker 2: They had a cupboard which is probably this wide. They
Speaker 2: had two suits and three empty coat hangers that they
Speaker 2: probably had taken on holiday with them. They had four cups,
Speaker 2: four plates, full bowls, a fridge about this big.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: That was it? Like, it wasn't I have a cinema room.
Speaker 2: I only have thish and I have that and there's
Speaker 2: the blah blah. No. It was like, no, that and
Speaker 2: it blew my mind. Oh wow, you could be this
Speaker 2: high profile person and your home and what is in
Speaker 2: your home doesn't have to it's so simple show to
Speaker 2: who else is going to see it? Well, I don't know,
Speaker 2: this is this level of my success. It was beautiful,
Speaker 2: you know, but it wasn't ostentatious. No, yeah, and it
Speaker 2: really kind of I came home, I had this massive
Speaker 2: fridge sold it. I was like, okay, I'm fine. It
Speaker 2: really changed how I thought about things. And the community
Speaker 2: was really beautiful. Everybody knew each other. Everyone you can
Speaker 2: there's something that's to be said you kind of mind
Speaker 2: your business, mind yourself a bit. When you're that close
Speaker 2: to everyone, you know you've got to you can't be
Speaker 2: an asshole. You kin't got to be nice to your neighbors.
Speaker 2: You have to figure out how to get along with
Speaker 2: the people upstairs and downstairs. You've got to be cool.
Speaker 2: And that's makes us as a community better anyway, the
Speaker 2: high identity. We were in the Gold Coast the other
Speaker 2: week since the mullet.
Speaker 3: And I was wondering what had happened.
Speaker 2: You know, we used to drive north and where they'd
Speaker 2: ask you for your COVID thing so you could get
Speaker 2: leans in the window with a pair of clippers. Now
Speaker 2: yeah right, calling over there. And then as you're coming
Speaker 2: past billing you may pass there was a barber in
Speaker 2: the surf shop and more, and I decided to get
Speaker 2: matching my onnes.
Speaker 3: I love that. Ah, he's daddy's boy. That's so cooin.
Speaker 3: You can take the boy out of Queensland.
Speaker 2: You mentioned a couple of guests you've had so far.
Speaker 2: What are the key messages do you think that keep
Speaker 2: coming up again and again and again.
Speaker 1: I mean one of them is time in the market,
Speaker 1: not timing the market. This is something that just about
Speaker 1: every guest has spoken about. And you know, one of
Speaker 1: our guests, Molly Benjamin from Ladies Finance Club, who's built
Speaker 1: this great network of women who want to improve their
Speaker 1: financial literacy, and one who set up themselves set themselves
Speaker 1: up for long term financial security. It's not about getting
Speaker 1: rich quick, it's about a long term plan for financial security.
Speaker 1: And she, among other guests, talks about the virtues of
Speaker 1: time in the market, So putting that amount of money
Speaker 1: away every month, flexing that investment muscle in order to
Speaker 1: achieve steady gains over the long term. We're not talking
Speaker 1: about like a three hundred percent gain overnight from in
Speaker 1: video or whatever it is, and like make high five
Speaker 1: to anyone who invested in in video.
Speaker 3: But but this is all about.
Speaker 1: Just flexing that regular investment muscle for long term gains.
Speaker 1: To see, it's like super annum. It's what your superannuation
Speaker 1: effectively does, right, diversifying across a broad range of assets
Speaker 1: over the long term, minimize risk, and give yourself some
Speaker 1: comfortable growth over the long term. So that's what people
Speaker 1: keep coming back to a lot. The other is this
Speaker 1: concept of enough and knowing what your goals are and
Speaker 1: being really defined in that and being really specific about that.
Speaker 1: But I guess, you know, on the whole, it's also
Speaker 1: sort of for young people, it's getting creative in this
Speaker 1: new new world that we exist in, finding new ways
Speaker 1: to set yourself up, whether it's rent investing or long
Speaker 1: term ETF investing or whatever it is that works for
Speaker 1: you and your own financial circumstances. But I think also
Speaker 1: on the whole, let's open up this conversation and not
Speaker 1: be afraid. I know it's crass and it's icky for
Speaker 1: me talking about money. It's not something I have really
Speaker 1: ever enjoyed talking about, but I think it's necessary. I
Speaker 1: think it's necessary in this world, particularly for young people
Speaker 1: in their twenties and thirties, to start chatting to their
Speaker 1: friends about what they're saving for right now, about what
Speaker 1: they want to achieve in the next ten years, about
Speaker 1: what debt they might be carrying, and do you have
Speaker 1: any advice or tips for how to get rid of that?
Speaker 1: Because it reduces a shame, it makes it democratizes investment.
Speaker 1: It opens up so many conversations that can put you
Speaker 1: in the right direction in the long term as well.
Speaker 1: And this is another thing that's come up from several
Speaker 1: of our guests is the lack of of financial education
Speaker 1: in the schooling system. That there's a real gap there,
Speaker 1: I think for teaching kids about the magic of compound interest,
Speaker 1: about how investing works. Because for those of us who
Speaker 1: didn't grow up in a family where investment was part
Speaker 1: of the language or part of the conversation on a
Speaker 1: regular basis, it seems like something for other people, like
Speaker 1: investing the share market, all of it feels like something
Speaker 1: for someone else who grew up in another part of
Speaker 1: this country, probably close to the harbor, and their dads
Speaker 1: taught them how to do it from a young age
Speaker 1: or whatever. They have access to something that we don't
Speaker 1: have access to. Right, But it's not that. It's not that,
Speaker 1: and there are new ways to invest that have made
Speaker 1: it so much more accessible to the average person who
Speaker 1: doesn't have time to watch the market every day or
Speaker 1: to research every company that they might have an interest
Speaker 1: in as well. There are new ways that have democratized
Speaker 1: in investing on the whole, and so many Australians have
Speaker 1: felt locked out of that conversation. And I agree with
Speaker 1: many of our guests that there is a real lack
Speaker 1: of that education in high school. I remember doing one
Speaker 1: lesson on it and I did like the basic maths
Speaker 1: at high school journalists.
Speaker 3: So which I go figure I wasn't very good at maths.
Speaker 2: My ego wouldn't let me take it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did the basic maths, and I do remember
Speaker 1: having one lesson on compound interest and thinking this is interesting,
Speaker 1: but this will never apply to my life, maybe other
Speaker 1: than super anuation.
Speaker 3: You know, so next you know.
Speaker 1: So, I think that there is definitely a gap there
Speaker 1: for there to be more financial literacy built into the curriculum.
Speaker 2: Oh man, if people understood it has superannuation work, they
Speaker 2: wouldn't be taken money out of it together the dentist.
Speaker 3: That's right, No way, that's right.
Speaker 2: Because you're it's around COVID. I think when people were talking,
Speaker 2: oh you can take money, are you're super to get by? Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it was a couple of stories like for every
Speaker 2: five hundred bucks you take out, yeah, if you're twenty
Speaker 2: by the time you're sixty, it's that it's huge.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's huge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the guy who paid when bitcoin was
Speaker 2: a dollar, a guy who paid ten bitcoined by a
Speaker 2: pizza look at it like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really it's like a it's a snowballing effect, right,
Speaker 1: So if you're taking money out of that, you were
Speaker 1: depriving yourself of big gains in the long term.
Speaker 2: And while we're on the subject of money, we need
Speaker 2: to play some commercials, so we'll be back in a
Speaker 2: minute with Sylvie Jeffreys. What have you learned about I mean,
Speaker 2: this is why we're saying stuffed on climate because well
Speaker 2: that's a tomorrow problem. Yeah right, yeah, same with this,
Speaker 2: This is all a tomorrow yes. So what have you
Speaker 2: learned from your guests about thinking about Our brains are
Speaker 2: not very good at thinking past I don't know, the
Speaker 2: next week.
Speaker 3: Maybe, do you know what?
Speaker 1: I really genuinely believe there is a shift in the
Speaker 1: younger generations. I think there are more They are way
Speaker 1: more aware of this stuff than perhaps you and I were.
Speaker 3: And I'm sort of on the I'm a millennial, but.
Speaker 1: I think gen Z I think they have to be
Speaker 1: really financially literate. I think they're really aware of the
Speaker 1: challenges they're up against. So I think maybe they're more
Speaker 1: conscious of these things than you or I had to
Speaker 1: be in our early twenties. And there is research that
Speaker 1: shows that gen zs are more aware of their superannuation
Speaker 1: than previous generations, so that's comforting. There is also some
Speaker 1: data which one guest brought up that shows that gen
Speaker 1: z are very reliant on things like have to pay.
Speaker 1: So you know, there are sort of two sides to it.
Speaker 1: But I do firmly believe that younger generations are much
Speaker 1: better at thinking about the long term of their finances
Speaker 1: than previous generations because they have to be They have
Speaker 1: to be aware, and they have to be across it.
Speaker 1: Because setting themselves up for their first home by the
Speaker 1: time they have of their first child, if they even
Speaker 1: are going to do that, because so many of them
Speaker 1: are putting that off as a milestone or not doing
Speaker 1: it at all, the birth rate is in decline. I
Speaker 1: think they have to be more conscious of these things,
Speaker 1: and so they sort of naturally are.
Speaker 2: My friend Luke Hagey, he's a stand up. When he
Speaker 2: and his wife first got pregnant, he's a laborer and
Speaker 2: he's like, Bevans have heaps of kids and they seem
Speaker 2: to be doing fine. We'll be all right. Bevans is
Speaker 2: very in Queensland word for became bogue and sometime around
Speaker 2: when the comedy company started using that word on national television.
Speaker 2: But it's always been a ken or BEVs watch out
Speaker 2: for they shot up to your party parties over Yeah,
Speaker 2: cops wont to show up of the kimil BEVs have gone.
Speaker 2: There were bad news. But yeah. The idea was that
Speaker 2: as a certain class of kid that we were with,
Speaker 2: the kind of school we went to, went to one
Speaker 2: of the schools in the city in Brisain. No, no, no,
Speaker 2: you don't think about having children until you can make
Speaker 2: sure there is this, that that, and he transcends. I
Speaker 2: was talking him at the time, like aren't you worried
Speaker 2: about this? That and the other? Still carrying that, He's like, mate,
Speaker 2: you know there's free healthcare. We're going to be all right,
Speaker 2: We'll figure it out. And he was right. He was
Speaker 2: right to a point. You know, obviously you don't want
Speaker 2: to be feeding two minute noodles to your child for
Speaker 2: the first ten years. You do want to have don't
Speaker 2: let it stop you.
Speaker 1: You don't need to have all your ducks in a row.
Speaker 1: And you know, buying your first home. The average age
Speaker 1: of the first home buyer now is much higher than
Speaker 1: it obviously was a decade ago. The home ownership among
Speaker 1: twenty to thirty year olds is in decline, so these
Speaker 1: things are going to come later. It's no wonder, you know,
Speaker 1: people are putting off having children and some people choosing
Speaker 1: not to have them at all.
Speaker 3: It's really expected.
Speaker 2: That's like I forget.
Speaker 1: We spoke to Georgie Dan about the cost of having
Speaker 1: a child, and I mean, there's no way to obviously
Speaker 1: put a figure on that, but it is really expensive.
Speaker 1: And she said something like eighty percent of the people
Speaker 1: they pold say that they need two incomes to full
Speaker 1: time incomes to survive, and so that means you have
Speaker 1: to pay for childcare, and of course in many cases,
Speaker 1: the cost of that cancels out the second income. So
Speaker 1: it's really it's a really challenging thing in this environment.
Speaker 2: I lived in America for a long time and my
Speaker 2: brother and his husband are still over there, and real
Speaker 2: estate there is not jiggered like it is here, So
Speaker 2: homes don't appreciate. Yeah, like you can flip a house,
Speaker 2: but they don't flip it for they don't flip it
Speaker 2: for ninety percent. They flip it for five or ten percent.
Speaker 2: That's it. So because the housing market doesn't increase like that,
Speaker 2: and it's a lot to do with how much as
Speaker 2: a country they back themselves on innovation. People's investment looks like,
Speaker 2: who's got a good idea, let's invest in that idea.
Speaker 2: I wonder what might happen in our country if we
Speaker 2: started to look outside our major investment being the one
Speaker 2: that we live in, if we started to look for
Speaker 2: other places where similar, similar gains might be made to
Speaker 2: invest in the ideas about country. I wonder what might
Speaker 2: happen if if we did something like.
Speaker 3: That, investing in innovation.
Speaker 2: In ideas, in innovation, Yeah, because that's where, to be honest, like,
Speaker 2: that's where you get your ten x, twenty x, hundred X.
Speaker 2: That's where those guys and that was I found it
Speaker 2: so fascinating. It's like, tell how much you're doing some ofvia,
Speaker 2: we're interested in it. Oh my god, let me introduce
Speaker 2: you to this person here. That's because they they want
Speaker 2: to invest in ideas, because it's those conversations that like it.
Speaker 2: Just remember me. If you guys ever need anything, to
Speaker 2: come back and talk to me. All right, Yeah, because
Speaker 2: that's where they get their hundred X. That's where they
Speaker 2: put zeros on their initial investment. It's not in the house.
Speaker 2: But here sometimes I think we might have just we
Speaker 2: might have nailed the foot to the floor with Oh,
Speaker 2: it's got to be about the household.
Speaker 1: We're obsessed with property ownership in Australia. It is it
Speaker 1: is the great Australian dream, right to own a home,
Speaker 1: and you know, for good reason as well, because there's
Speaker 1: a lot of security that comes with that into the
Speaker 1: long term, especially if you're not buying your first time
Speaker 1: until you're fifty. Are you going to be done paying
Speaker 1: that mortgage when you retire? Are you still going to
Speaker 1: have mortgage repayments into retirement and how are you going
Speaker 1: to manage that?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well no, I'm just saying that these are considerations that
Speaker 1: people have going into, you know, into later home ownership, right,
Speaker 1: and so you have to maybe think differently around how
Speaker 1: you are setting yourself up for the long term. But
Speaker 1: we are obsessed with property and this is why people
Speaker 1: don't want to let go of this idea of home
Speaker 1: ownership because a they say it's safe as houses for
Speaker 1: a reason, it is a solid investment in this country,
Speaker 1: and b it gives you long term security knowing that
Speaker 1: you own the roof over your head. The rental market
Speaker 1: is so tough right now, and imagine being in your
Speaker 1: seventies and being kicked out of your rental and having
Speaker 1: to start again. You know, there's a lot of anxiety
Speaker 1: that comes with that concept. So that's why I think
Speaker 1: so many and we're all just sort of condition to
Speaker 1: see it as a big tick, a big life bucket
Speaker 1: list tick. You know, I got the house next, I'll
Speaker 1: have the kids next, I don't know whatever, get a
Speaker 1: holiday house or something. I don't know what's the natural progression,
Speaker 1: but we are so conditioned to feel as though that
Speaker 1: is one of life's big achievements that you must tick off.
Speaker 1: So it's very hard for people to shift their mentality
Speaker 1: around that.
Speaker 2: Where there are people who live in Brooklyn or whatever
Speaker 2: whose grandparents have never owned, have rented their entire lives,
Speaker 2: and that's just a part of what life is, and
Speaker 2: their investments look very different over there. When it comes
Speaker 2: to shedding your own stories about life, try not to
Speaker 2: infect your kids with it. That's a tough part about
Speaker 2: being a parent. How are you or how do you
Speaker 2: start to instill these ideas in your kids and what
Speaker 2: kind of things are you moving towards there.
Speaker 1: We're very conscious of saying no, and how we say
Speaker 1: no to things. You know, if they're asking for something,
Speaker 1: it's just no, not today, you don't need that today,
Speaker 1: Or no, we've run out of money today because we
Speaker 1: got you in ice block this morning, and so that's
Speaker 1: the budget for today or this week. No, there's no
Speaker 1: space for that. Maybe let's talk about it next week,
Speaker 1: and things like that.
Speaker 2: Deferring the gratification deferring.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But for me, it's more showing that mommy and
Speaker 1: Daddy have a budget and we can't just buy everything
Speaker 1: that's in front of us, and we have to figure
Speaker 1: out what we prioritize this week or this month, or
Speaker 1: this year or whatever. And the other thing we've done,
Speaker 1: which I've spoken about, is setting them up and this
Speaker 1: sounds this sounds a bit extra, but it's basically a
Speaker 1: bit like a Dolomite's account that you or I probably
Speaker 1: had as kids growing up in primary school. We've set
Speaker 1: them up with little kids investment accounts, and so we
Speaker 1: just chuck a bit of pocket money in there each month,
Speaker 1: if we've got it, will chuck it in. Or if
Speaker 1: they get some money for their birthday from a family
Speaker 1: member or for Christmas, we put it in there, and
Speaker 1: eventually when they're a little bit older, we'll show them
Speaker 1: that this amount of money has gone in each month
Speaker 1: or whatever, and this is how it's grown with compound interest,
Speaker 1: and so they can understand the concept of how that works,
Speaker 1: and then.
Speaker 3: We'll figure out what we do with that down the track.
Speaker 3: We don't.
Speaker 1: That's a conversation for another day, but at least that
Speaker 1: hopefully gives them a tool to understand how compound interest
Speaker 1: works and also flexing the savings muscle each week and
Speaker 1: the impacts of that. So one of our guests on
Speaker 1: the podcast, Chris Breichy, he is the founder of stock spot,
Speaker 1: and he has similar accounts for his kids, and he's
Speaker 1: already speaking to his six year old son about it
Speaker 1: and showing him that, look, you've got money in Disney,
Speaker 1: and so every time your friends stream on Disney, the
Speaker 1: share price will go up and you'll get some dividends.
Speaker 1: You'll see the rewards of that. And so six year
Speaker 1: old kids off to school, hustling his kids in the
Speaker 1: play his mates in the playground, saying can everyone stream
Speaker 1: Disney on the weekend because I'm going.
Speaker 2: To disneyl it is yeah, yeah, she's living. It's really
Speaker 2: interesting weeks of cast members.
Speaker 3: See yeah, see you've just got to be on the
Speaker 3: on the cell.
Speaker 1: So anyway, So these are some of the things where
Speaker 1: we're thinking about with the kids to try to in
Speaker 1: small ways teach them about saving and being disciplined with money.
Speaker 2: And there's also the work ethic that you demonstrate to them.
Speaker 3: Well, they see that every day. Yeah we're out the door.
Speaker 1: They think everyone they must think everyone's mummy and daddy
Speaker 1: works on TV because there's mum and there's dad, right,
Speaker 1: But yeah, but they see that every day, and you
Speaker 1: know that comes with a certain level of mum guild obviously,
Speaker 1: which I know I shouldn't say that I have, but of.
Speaker 3: Course I do.
Speaker 1: But I love my job and I hope that they
Speaker 1: see that I love my job and that, you know,
Speaker 1: the gratification of having a job that you enjoy so much.
Speaker 2: You try to at all times go why or there's
Speaker 2: a purpose to this, doing this with a purpose. And
Speaker 2: even though I'm you know, you know, hustling this guest
Speaker 2: for the you know today extra or I'm doing this
Speaker 2: at work, I'm writing this article for nine holy all
Speaker 2: is is to do this thing for these people. And
Speaker 2: that's what I'm really doing today. I just happened to
Speaker 2: like it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just happened to have a really good time
Speaker 3: while I'm doing it.
Speaker 2: And that's fine. Yeah, it's not It's not me, it's
Speaker 2: it's Scott Galloway, who I love.
Speaker 3: I love Scott Galloway's great.
Speaker 1: He's my dream guest by the way, for the podcast
Speaker 1: if you're if you're listening.
Speaker 2: And both right, Yeah, spending twenties, just trying everything until
Speaker 2: you find something that when you show but it doesn't
Speaker 2: feel like work. Yes, do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah. His booked The Algebra of Wealth.
Speaker 1: It's great, is really that's one of the books that
Speaker 1: has helped me to understand this world so well.
Speaker 3: He's a he's a great brain.
Speaker 2: Really really really good and like have you got the
Speaker 2: White Whale? Have you got Scott Pape?
Speaker 3: He gets a lot of emails from a lot of people.
Speaker 1: So anyway, again, Scott Pape, if you're listening, we're coming
Speaker 1: for you too.
Speaker 2: The White for a reason, Like he's an extraordinary.
Speaker 3: He's an amazing human being, extraordinary.
Speaker 2: And he's helped a lot of people.
Speaker 3: He has, and I.
Speaker 2: Really think it is somebody like that, someone like yourself,
Speaker 2: with enough upward pressure, uput market pressure. I mean the stuff.
Speaker 2: There's no like the work that he has done changed
Speaker 2: in many ways, change the way banks. You know, you
Speaker 2: just pointed out going just so this means so you know,
Speaker 2: for every ten grand you put in a bank, they
Speaker 2: take this much. But how what? Yeah, like, I didn't
Speaker 2: know any of that before I read that book, and
Speaker 2: he's sold four hundred thousand. A lot of people now
Speaker 2: know this stuff. So sure people in that position can
Speaker 2: do a lot as far as financial literacy, and a
Speaker 2: lot of about upward pressure on the way the companies
Speaker 2: were put also government policy, and absolutely I'm glad you
Speaker 2: made the show.
Speaker 3: Oh thank you.
Speaker 2: Enjoy doing it?
Speaker 3: I loving it.
Speaker 1: I love like how good is it to sit down
Speaker 1: opposite someone who I mean sorry that you know, I
Speaker 1: hope I've met your expectations. But but to sit across
Speaker 1: someone who you really enjoy chatting to, and to have
Speaker 1: forty five oddmitutes without someone telling you a rap, and
Speaker 1: to really drill down on a topic and get so
Speaker 1: much out of them.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: You know, I just love extracting information from people. And
Speaker 1: it's kind of self indulgent taking up all that time
Speaker 1: from very busy, smart people, but I love it.
Speaker 2: They get something out of it too, I hope, So
Speaker 2: they wouldn't show up if they didn't want to.
Speaker 1: Well, it's you know, everyone I've asked so far has
Speaker 1: said yes and come on board. So we're very We're
Speaker 1: very fortunate.
Speaker 2: It is tricky that you and I have made a
Speaker 2: career in an industry with which kind of hijacks the
Speaker 2: way that people get complicated ideas across each other's, across
Speaker 2: the bridge between them, in that the amount of nuance
Speaker 2: and context it takes to understand something difficult cannot be
Speaker 2: said in a SoundBite or three minutess It takes an hour,
Speaker 2: sometimes it takes five hours. That's to speed that our
Speaker 2: brains work and the ability for emotions to catch up
Speaker 2: with our understanding of something. We can't do it in
Speaker 2: that amount of time. We pretend we can.
Speaker 1: People like, there's such a hunger for more context in
Speaker 1: this world, and both platforms sit by compliment one another.
Speaker 1: There's a space for all of this new media, I think,
Speaker 1: to sit alongside each other and to compliment each other,
Speaker 1: loving vertical integration.
Speaker 2: You go here, Jeffrey. We bring him in the Discovery
Speaker 2: with the Day Extra, and then we put them taken
Speaker 2: to the podcast, and then we feed them from there
Speaker 2: onto the nine honey, and then maybe they become an
Speaker 2: SMA subscriber and then boom, we've got the subscription money.
Speaker 1: This is the point of the big beautiful company that
Speaker 1: is nine ushah see, welcome to the family.
Speaker 3: You get it, Me too, Me too.
Speaker 2: That was Sylvia Jeffery as you can find her podcast,
Speaker 2: It's called the Payoff Where you found this for your podcast?
Speaker 2: If you want to watch our conversation, you can on
Speaker 2: nine now. I can't afford Steve Britton. He's the guy
Speaker 2: that does the voice servers for Channel nine, but I
Speaker 2: can pretend to be him. Not very well on the
Speaker 2: block forty sorry not just get carried away. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: can watch it on the nine now. Apple put a
Speaker 2: link in the show notes, which is also where you
Speaker 2: can get tickets to Story Club Comes see Us Live
Speaker 2: sixth of the July Factory Theater, and where you can
Speaker 2: pre order the book. So what now what? And when
Speaker 2: you do so, take a screenshot of you buying the
Speaker 2: book the results page or whatever said it to me
Speaker 2: and I'll email you something to say thank you very much.
Speaker 2: I'll be back here on Monday. Have a wonderful weekend.
Speaker 2: Bye