Speaker 1: Nine podcasts.
Speaker 2: In this episode, the informant gives evidence about voones police
Speaker 2: say are connected to Aaron Patterson.
Speaker 1: He's also questioned on the.
Speaker 2: Accused killer's medical history and evidence of googling cancer symptoms.
Speaker 2: The court has also shown her shopping transactions in the
Speaker 2: lead up to the fatal lunch.
Speaker 3: Victoria's mushroom mystery.
Speaker 4: The mushroom lunch that claimed three lives.
Speaker 5: An Australian family's meal is now the center of a
Speaker 5: homicide investigation.
Speaker 1: The bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines.
Speaker 5: Aaron Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch
Speaker 5: she'd serve them at her home.
Speaker 2: I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this
Speaker 2: level of media and public interest. Four of the guests
Speaker 2: of that lunch were much loved members of this church.
Speaker 1: Only one will ever return.
Speaker 5: People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people.
Speaker 2: Today, Aaron Patterson remained here inside her home.
Speaker 1: She's continued to plead her innocence in a court room
Speaker 1: in Country Victoria.
Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using death cap
Speaker 2: mushrooms to kill. She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three
Speaker 2: of her former in laws and attempting to kill a fourth,
Speaker 2: the town's church pastor. It's up to the jurors to
Speaker 2: decide what happened when Patterson's loved ones sat down to eat. Now,
Speaker 2: the jury has been taken through quite a bit of
Speaker 2: different topics of evidence with the informant, Detective Stephen epping Stall,
Speaker 2: which people will have heard a little bit of in
Speaker 2: our last episode talking about the police interview. But we're
Speaker 2: going to go through quite a few different elements that
Speaker 2: he's been touching on in his evidence with both the
Speaker 2: prosecution and the defense, and we'll take people through that
Speaker 2: in sort of topic order.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the jury was told Aaron Patterson was charged on
Speaker 5: the second of November twenty twenty three.
Speaker 6: This was just after a.
Speaker 5: Second search warrant was executed on her house. We've heard
Speaker 5: during the evidence from Steph eppenste that a first search
Speaker 5: warrant was executed on her Lee and Gatha home around
Speaker 5: the fifth of August twenty twenty three, and then in
Speaker 5: November we heard police returned because they were continuing to
Speaker 5: look for more items, so they had more items, more
Speaker 5: electronic devices on that search warrant. When they returned a
Speaker 5: second time, but then ultimately Aaron Patterson was charged soon
Speaker 5: after that second search warrant, and.
Speaker 2: We'll touch on some more parts of that search warrant
Speaker 2: and various elements around the electronic devices in this episode.
Speaker 2: But what's also been touched on by Steven Eppingstall is
Speaker 2: there's been some CCTV played to the jury from outside
Speaker 2: a subway store in Lee and Gather and the jury
Speaker 2: has been told that this was the night following the lunch.
Speaker 2: While Aaron Patterson had given it, it's come through in
Speaker 2: other people's evidence that she had been taking her son's
Speaker 2: friend home that night before taking him to the subway,
Speaker 2: and Stephen Eppingstall mentioned in his evidence that you could
Speaker 2: see her son walking in and then back out and waiting,
Speaker 2: and it was said to him by the prosecution there's
Speaker 2: a missing eleven minutes where the car the red card
Speaker 2: is appears before it comes back. When he was asked
Speaker 2: about that, Stephen Apingstall said, yes, we weren't able to
Speaker 2: track where the car went in that time. We'd gone
Speaker 2: and collected this CCTV, but we weren't able to see
Speaker 2: where it went. And the prosecution touched on the fact
Speaker 2: that another witness, a child protection worker, had said Aaron
Speaker 2: Patterson told her that that night she'd also gone to Woolworth's.
Speaker 2: But Stephen Eppingstall, as he said in his evidence, they
Speaker 2: weren't able to verify exactly where the car went over
Speaker 2: those eleven minutes. There was another element that was also
Speaker 2: clarified by the detective. He was asked about the video
Speaker 2: statement that Aaron Patterson's daughter made. Now, initially he confirmed
Speaker 2: that yes, in that what the jury has seen, this
Speaker 2: pre recorded bit of evidence, that girl had said no
Speaker 2: when she was asked if she'd ever been to an
Speaker 2: Asian grocery store with her mum. But he then clarified
Speaker 2: that there was a change to what she had said
Speaker 2: sort of closer to the trial.
Speaker 5: And on the eve of the trial, Penny, we were
Speaker 5: told that the child was asked to review her video statement,
Speaker 5: a video recorded statement, and in fact that she said
Speaker 5: no when talking to that support worker the scene and
Speaker 5: time just before the trial. She did have a memory
Speaker 5: of attending it Asian food shop with her mother for
Speaker 5: cooking reasons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so when we're talking about these shops, there's
Speaker 2: been a number of other shopping elements brought up throughout
Speaker 2: Stephen Eppingstall's evidence, and we're going to go through that
Speaker 2: sort of as one topic as the jury heard it
Speaker 2: really at this stage. So he was taken by the
Speaker 2: prosecution through Aaron Patterson's visits to Woolworth's in.
Speaker 1: Lee and Gatha.
Speaker 2: Now the jury has heard that Aaron Patterson through other
Speaker 2: people's evidence. They've recalled her telling them that she purchased
Speaker 2: the majority of the ingredients for this lunch from that
Speaker 2: local Woolworths prior to the.
Speaker 1: Lunch on the twenty ninth of July.
Speaker 2: And Steven Eppingstall gave evidence that he then reviewed transactions
Speaker 2: from Aaron Patterson between the twenty third and twenty eighth
Speaker 2: of July, and that he did that through looking at
Speaker 2: her Woolworth's rewards card. And there was a bit of
Speaker 2: an explanation about that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was explaining that that was a way that
Speaker 5: they could see the list of the exact items that
Speaker 5: had been purchased. Now this was a self serve checkout
Speaker 5: on all occasions, he was explaining to the jury. And
Speaker 5: then he was asked to read through the items that
Speaker 5: were on the list for each of those shopping visits.
Speaker 5: And we heard that Aaron Patterson was allegedly purchasing lots
Speaker 5: of pastry, different types of pastry, puff pastry and frozen
Speaker 5: feelings pastry.
Speaker 6: We also heard that.
Speaker 5: There was a number of different packets of fresh mushrooms
Speaker 5: on those consecutive days that had been purchased. We also
Speaker 5: heard that there was mashed potato, There was beans and
Speaker 5: also onions, yeah, and beef.
Speaker 2: Steaks or were listed in those transactions as well. Now,
Speaker 2: to put a sort of a bit of a visual
Speaker 2: element to it for the jury, this was a huge
Speaker 2: amount of information in columns and all written down as
Speaker 2: different transactions over different days of this week, but the
Speaker 2: areas that the jury attention was being brought to and
Speaker 2: the detective as part of his evidence were highlighted in
Speaker 2: yellow particular items. So, like you mentioned, there was mushrooms
Speaker 2: sliced and there'd be sort of two in one transaction
Speaker 2: and then two there was two in another as well
Speaker 2: as well as these sort of five different pieces of
Speaker 2: beef over a couple of days. And as the detective
Speaker 2: went through all of this evidence, there was a moment
Speaker 2: where he was asked about what one of the columns meant,
Speaker 2: and as he got to that, there was actually an
Speaker 2: interruption from the jury when he said, oh, I don't
Speaker 2: actually I'm not quite sure what that is for.
Speaker 6: The fellow column.
Speaker 2: And as he was asked by Jane Warren for the
Speaker 2: prosecution and what's that particular column there, someone from the
Speaker 2: jury said I know.
Speaker 1: When he said that he didn't.
Speaker 5: There was a lot of laughter in the courtroom at
Speaker 5: that stage. The Jura looked quite embarrassed and actually put
Speaker 5: her hand to her mouth almost to stop herself talking,
Speaker 5: because she realized in that moment she probably shouldn't have
Speaker 5: been interrupting what was going on with the evidence. The
Speaker 5: judge then interjected quite quickly and also had a bit
Speaker 5: of a chuckle, but said to this particular Dura, I
Speaker 5: think it's best if you save those conversations for the
Speaker 5: jury room and not bring it up here in the courtroom.
Speaker 5: So we are listening to some quite serious evidence, but
Speaker 5: we have had a few of these lighthearted moments, and
Speaker 5: this was one where there was quite a roar of laughter.
Speaker 5: I think nearly everybody in the room had a bit
Speaker 5: of a chuckle. Then when this particular europe Yeah put
Speaker 5: her hand up and said I think I can answer that,
Speaker 5: your honor, and they quickly moved on to more more
Speaker 5: about the grocery shopping list, and the informant really went
Speaker 5: through and listed each each of those.
Speaker 6: I've got here in my notes that.
Speaker 5: On Sunday, the twenty third of July, for example, one
Speaker 5: of some of the items purchased there was two different
Speaker 5: lots of sliced mushrooms at five hundred grams a kilogram
Speaker 5: of puff pastry, three hundred and seventy five grams of
Speaker 5: Philo pastry onions of the French Chalotte version, and then
Speaker 5: similar other purchases that happened on also on the twenty
Speaker 5: seventh and twenty eighth of July. We know the lunch
Speaker 5: was on the twenty ninth of July twenty twenty three.
Speaker 5: So we heard a lot about that shopping list or
Speaker 5: the list of items that had been purchased during those
Speaker 5: particular days, and that evidence went on for quite a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and moving to sort of the next part of
Speaker 2: the evidence that this detective was taken through again sort
Speaker 2: of in the vein of shopping this was banked transactions
Speaker 2: from a Bendigo bank account. Now he was taken through
Speaker 2: the details of that, saying that sort of was Aaron
Speaker 2: Patterson's or at least a bank account attached to her.
Speaker 1: We could see and what was being shown on the screen.
Speaker 2: A lot of the particulars were sort of taken out
Speaker 2: on what was being shown to the courtroom, but you
Speaker 2: could see her name, Aaron Trudy Patterson listed on there.
Speaker 2: And there were three specific transactions that the detective and
Speaker 2: the jury were taken through. The first, as it came
Speaker 2: up though it is the last in date, was a
Speaker 2: transaction for what was described as the Coon Warrior tip
Speaker 2: or it is the sort of the waste transfer station,
Speaker 2: and that was on the second of August around sort
Speaker 2: of eleven forty am in the morning around that time.
Speaker 1: Then the two.
Speaker 2: Others that were touched on were a transaction for a
Speaker 2: service station, a BP service station, a colder mead. Now
Speaker 2: that was on the thirtieth of July, the day after
Speaker 2: the lunch.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that receipt was played on the screen as well
Speaker 5: for the jury as the informt was asked to confirm
Speaker 5: these exhibits essentially, and then they were logged for the
Speaker 5: jury so they can read them later on on their
Speaker 5: iPads if they wish. Even the types of food that
Speaker 5: were purchased at that particular occasion. It was a ham,
Speaker 5: cheese and tomato sandwich, it was a chili chicken rap
Speaker 5: and there was also something called a blister pack and
Speaker 5: the informant was asked if he knew what that was
Speaker 5: and he said he thought it was gum and there
Speaker 5: was some more giggles around that, but we even got
Speaker 5: the dollar amounts and things like that before he went
Speaker 5: into the third transaction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so that particular receipt that you're talking about there,
Speaker 2: that was the physical receipt that the detective gave evidence
Speaker 2: had sort of been sort of recovered from the service
Speaker 2: station alongside these actual bank records, and it was mentioned
Speaker 2: to the jury as part of this evidence that they
Speaker 2: had seen CCTV of this particular.
Speaker 1: Visit on the thirtieth.
Speaker 2: But then they were also shown a transaction in that
Speaker 2: bank account for it was that Cooi Rup which is
Speaker 2: again in the Gippsland area, and the jury had heard
Speaker 2: from the prosecutor as part of this she said, now
Speaker 2: there was a mention in the Sun's evidence that there'd
Speaker 2: been a stop on that particular day when they were
Speaker 2: traveling through the area basically what was a donut van
Speaker 2: and that came up with a donut van sort of
Speaker 2: name as part of that transaction. And then that particular
Speaker 2: amount there for about sort of thirteen dollars ten I
Speaker 2: think it was, and it was mentioned to the jury
Speaker 2: by the prosecutor. Remember we've heard this evidence before and
Speaker 2: that there was three dim sims, a hot dog and
Speaker 2: a coffee purchased as part of that transaction.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: What an informant is called to give evidence in a
Speaker 5: trial such as this, they're essentially being asked and this
Speaker 5: we saw this today to confirm. These are the things
Speaker 5: that you've got sort of going from A to Z
Speaker 5: of all the documents and all the evidence you've collected
Speaker 5: along the way. So they moved through topics pretty quickly.
Speaker 5: Some of them they spend a little bit more time
Speaker 5: on today. But after we went through the bank transaction records,
Speaker 5: which was only a couple of minutes that were spoken about,
Speaker 5: they quickly moved to the next topic, Penny, and that
Speaker 5: was to do with Gaiel Patterson's diary.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Gaiel Patterson's diary was entered into evidence, and this
Speaker 2: was a hand sort of written diary, the sort of
Speaker 2: diary that you would make appointments for for your week.
Speaker 6: It was a week view by the Monday Boy to Sunday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was taken through quite a few different
Speaker 2: dates across varying time frames in twenty twenty three. But
Speaker 2: some of the entries that were in that the jury
Speaker 2: was sort of taken through and the detective was asked
Speaker 2: to read these out and you'll hear a little bit
Speaker 2: of that evidence in a moment. But on the twenty
Speaker 2: eighth of June, which was a Wednesday, there was some
Speaker 2: handwritten cursive there that said Erin Saint Vincent's arm lump.
Speaker 2: And then on the twenty ninth of July lunch at
Speaker 2: Erin's with Heather and Ian, and then the detective was
Speaker 2: asked whether he had, through some of his investigation, checked
Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson's medical records, and he gave evidence that yes,
Speaker 2: he had checked her medical records, particularly for the time
Speaker 2: of January twenty twenty three through to around this time
Speaker 2: of the lunch and just after in August as well.
Speaker 2: He was asked whether Aaron Patterson had intended Saint Vincent's
Speaker 2: hospital on the twenty eighth of June or if there
Speaker 2: was a medical appointment through her Medicare history and other
Speaker 2: things he was looking at for that date, as mentioned
Speaker 2: in the diary, and he said no, there were no
Speaker 2: records that he'd been able to find, and that when
Speaker 2: he checked with the hospital and his team contacted them,
Speaker 2: they weren't able to confirm that there had been a
Speaker 2: visit there either, and that's where the jury was then
Speaker 2: moved on to another element of evidence connected to Gail Patterson,
Speaker 2: that being Gail Patterson's mobile phone.
Speaker 5: So there was also text messages around this time that
Speaker 5: the informant was taken to between who the prosecutions say
Speaker 5: is Aaron Patterson and Gail Patterson. And in these conversations
Speaker 5: which will now take you through, they were speaking about
Speaker 5: these medical appointments and how Aaron Patterson was going.
Speaker 1: A message was read to the jury.
Speaker 2: They were told this was sent on the twenty eighth
Speaker 2: of June, round seven thirty pm from Gayle's phone saying, Hi, erin,
Speaker 2: just wondering how you got on with your appointment today,
Speaker 2: Love Gail and don Now here's a little bit of
Speaker 2: what the jury heard from Stephen Eppingstall while he was
Speaker 2: giving his evidence with Jane Warren from the prosecution.
Speaker 7: It's voiced by actors twenty nine June twenty twenty three,
Speaker 7: eleven fifty two am. Read out that text please yep.
Speaker 3: Hi, Gail. Sorry, I had taken my daughter to see
Speaker 3: a movie last night. We saw The Little Mermaid. The
Speaker 3: appointment went okay, thanks for asking. I had a needle
Speaker 3: biopsy taken of the lump and I'm returning for an
Speaker 3: MRI next week and we'll know more after the results
Speaker 3: of those two things.
Speaker 7: Did you find any evidence in the accused medical records
Speaker 7: of her having had a needle biopsy of a lump?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 7: Did you find any evidence in the accused medical records
Speaker 7: of her being referred for or scheduled or having an MRI?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 7: Then if we look please there's a response there from
Speaker 7: Gail to Aaron Patterson twenty ninth of June twenty twenty
Speaker 7: three at six twenty six pm.
Speaker 4: Yes, correct, and just read that out please yep.
Speaker 3: That's a test of patience, isn't it. Praying you'll know
Speaker 3: God's peace. We're just ready to relax. Nice to have
Speaker 3: the fire warming us in this cold weather.
Speaker 6: XO.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 7: If we go to the message above, that's number nine
Speaker 7: timestamp six July twenty twenty three at eight fifteen pm.
Speaker 7: This is from Gail Patterson to Aaron Patterson.
Speaker 3: Yes correct?
Speaker 4: Could you read that out please?
Speaker 3: Hi Erin, How did you get on yesterday with your
Speaker 3: medical test? Love Don and Gail?
Speaker 7: And then the final message timestamp seven July twenty twenty three,
Speaker 7: six forty six pm. This is from Aaron Patterson to
Speaker 7: Gail Patterson. Yes correct, read that out please?
Speaker 3: Thanks for your message, Don and Gail. There's a bit
Speaker 3: to digest with everything that's come out of it all.
Speaker 3: I might talk more about it with you when I
Speaker 3: see you in person, Love Erin.
Speaker 7: Okay, did you find in the medical records you reviewed
Speaker 7: any medical appointments for the accused on six July twenty
Speaker 7: twenty three.
Speaker 2: No, there was quite a bit of different evidence given
Speaker 2: today around different electronic devices, but particularly mobile phones. And
Speaker 2: we'll try in the most succinct way we can to
Speaker 2: talk about this evidence that was presented to the jury
Speaker 2: through the informant when it came to mobile phones that
Speaker 2: had been seized by his team with the homicide squad
Speaker 2: as part of the search warrants that we've heard about.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there was four different phones that were mentioned today,
Speaker 5: Penny and two sim cards, and essentially the prosecution alleged
Speaker 5: that Aaron Patterson moved these two SIM cards across the
Speaker 5: multiple phones that she had in her possession in the
Speaker 5: months leading up to and shortly after the time of
Speaker 5: the fatal lunch. And it was those particular electronic devices.
Speaker 5: And we heard a lot about imy numbers and SIM
Speaker 5: card numbers and phone numbers and all of these types
Speaker 5: of things. But to try and just simplify it all,
Speaker 5: there was four phones referred to an evidence. One was
Speaker 5: called the A twenty three phone, one was called Phone
Speaker 5: A third was called Phone B, and the fourth was
Speaker 5: called the Nokia smartphone.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 6: The first three were all.
Speaker 5: Samsung Galaxy type phones, and then the Nokia smartphone was
Speaker 5: the one at the end. The way that the evidence
Speaker 5: was explained to the jury was that the first mobile
Speaker 5: phone A twenty three now that was found in a
Speaker 5: cupboard in the bedroom of the accused teenage son during
Speaker 5: the first search warrant in August twenty twenty three. It's
Speaker 5: on that particular phone that the informants said that police
Speaker 5: found communications the day alleged was between Aaron Patterson and
Speaker 5: some Facebook friends. It had occurred months earlier in December
Speaker 5: twenty twenty two, and that's where she'd spoken about smashing
Speaker 5: her phone screen while on holiday to New Zealand and
Speaker 5: then having to go and purchase another one of the
Speaker 5: Samsung phones.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll give you a little bit of the evidence
Speaker 1: as the jury heard it.
Speaker 2: This was given by Steven Eppingstall and Jane Warren from
Speaker 2: the prosecution as part of this questioning, and they're reading
Speaker 2: out Facebook messages and the times and dates associated with those.
Speaker 3: The next message is at ten oh six pm from
Speaker 3: Erin and it reads, anyway, I've been googling everything trying
Speaker 3: to get into my phone and emails and just couldn't.
Speaker 3: But then someone suggested I could do a hard reboot
Speaker 3: of my phone and restart it in safe mode and
Speaker 3: it might fix the frozen screen issue. And it worked
Speaker 3: for now, but the screen is broken and might freeze
Speaker 3: again at any second. So now that I am in,
Speaker 3: I am copying down everything I need from it. Loll and.
Speaker 3: Jenny Hay responds on seventeen December twenty twenty two at
Speaker 3: ten ten pm. Or how stressful, Erin. Maybe you can
Speaker 3: get the screen fixed in enz if they can do
Speaker 3: it quickly. Erin responds two minutes later at ten twelve
Speaker 3: pm yeah, I'm going to see if I can tomorrow.
Speaker 3: It makes me realize how ridiculous it is that having
Speaker 3: a broken phone makes everything so difficult. I can't get
Speaker 3: into my banking on my laptop because it sends an
Speaker 3: authorization SMS to my phone, et cetera, et cetera. Like
Speaker 3: how dumb am I to make everything dependent on a
Speaker 3: single bloody device?
Speaker 4: And then next page, please yep.
Speaker 3: So this is a message from Erin on nineteen December
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two at five eighteen pm, and it reads
Speaker 3: I had to buy a new phone today because I
Speaker 3: couldn't get the other one unfixed IDK, which is I
Speaker 3: don't know why, but setting up a new phone is
Speaker 3: incredibly stressful for me.
Speaker 4: And then final paid please yep.
Speaker 3: And again this is a message from Erin on nineteen
Speaker 3: December twenty twenty two. This one's at ten fifty eight pm.
Speaker 3: I got a Samsung Galaxy A twenty three, the cheapest
Speaker 3: I could get while not being an absolute piece of
Speaker 3: shit phone. It was still four hundred dollars though emoji emoji.
Speaker 6: We then heard evidence about Phone B.
Speaker 5: Now this is the handset that the informant said the
Speaker 5: accused had physically handed police during that first search warrant
Speaker 5: in August twenty twenty three, and we saw some footage
Speaker 5: and some still images of that happening of Aaron Patterson
Speaker 5: handing that phone over to Luke Farrell who was working
Speaker 5: as part of the homicide squad team on that day,
Speaker 5: and it appeared to show a mobile phone that was
Speaker 5: housed in an orange or red type phone case. And
Speaker 5: as I said, that was played to the court, Eppingstall
Speaker 5: said it was this phone that was connected to a
Speaker 5: handset for the first time on the eleventh of July
Speaker 5: twenty twenty three, because earlier, he was explaining, it had
Speaker 5: only been seen to be used in a Samsung tablet
Speaker 5: device before then being placed in phone B he set
Speaker 5: around August three, twenty twenty three, about five days after
Speaker 5: the lunch.
Speaker 2: And before Stephen Eppingstall explained this particular element regarding the
Speaker 2: tablet and the phone in his evidence and what he
Speaker 2: says that evidence showed when the jury was shown this
Speaker 2: steal image that had come from a video of the
Speaker 2: handover of the phone with Luke Farrell, and it appeared
Speaker 2: to be in a ready orange colored case.
Speaker 1: They were also.
Speaker 2: Shown prior to that another steal image from CCTV from
Speaker 2: they were told Lee and Gatha Hospital, and they were
Speaker 2: told that that was from the thirty first of July,
Speaker 2: so two days after the lunch before this search warrant occurred.
Speaker 2: And in that image as they zoomed in, it was
Speaker 2: described by the prosecution and the detective.
Speaker 1: Agreed with this that had appeared.
Speaker 2: The phone in that image was in a pink case
Speaker 2: when the image with Luke Farrell was shown, and that
Speaker 2: the prosecutor noted in front of the jury, We'll leave
Speaker 2: it up to the jury to decide what color that
Speaker 2: phone is. But going to that evidence that you were
Speaker 2: just mentioning regarding what Stephen Eppingstall said he was able
Speaker 2: to ascertain from some records regarding this particular phone number
Speaker 2: and SIM and the device as it was connected to.
Speaker 1: Here's a little bit of what he said to the
Speaker 1: court about that element of the investigation.
Speaker 4: At eighteen oh three or six p oh three pm.
Speaker 7: If we go across that far right hand column, what
Speaker 7: happens there?
Speaker 4: What do we see happen there?
Speaker 3: So we see that the IMI has changed and what
Speaker 3: that indicates is that the simcard for the eight three
Speaker 3: five number has been removed from the tablet device that
Speaker 3: it was in and it's been placed into a new device,
Speaker 3: and it's really easy for us to identify those devices.
Speaker 3: All we have to do is take that IMEI number,
Speaker 3: plug it into a publicly available website and it will
Speaker 3: identify the exact device that is.
Speaker 7: Okay, and that device for imy ending two seven six
Speaker 7: y two.
Speaker 4: What device was that?
Speaker 3: That's a Samsung Galaxy, Samsung Galaxy A twenty three mobile phone.
Speaker 7: And did you identify that as ultimately the mobile phone
Speaker 7: that miss Patterson handed to Detective Senior Sergeant Luke Farrell
Speaker 7: on five August.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's Phone B as we've been referring to
Speaker 3: it throughout this.
Speaker 7: Matter, Okay, and that phone is the same phone that
Speaker 7: we have the records for which show several factory resets
Speaker 7: occurred in August early August.
Speaker 3: Yes, correct.
Speaker 5: Eppingstall went further than to explain that as they looked
Speaker 5: at the different records and the data that they could find,
Speaker 5: explaining that every phone or device has a serial number
Speaker 5: and IMI number, he said, what it indicated was during
Speaker 5: that time of the police search of the house, the
Speaker 5: first search, one of those two simcards was moved from
Speaker 5: one of those Samsung devices into a Nokia smartphone.
Speaker 7: Detective, there is some orange highlighting this time, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 4: And the first row of.
Speaker 7: Orange highlighting appears in five August twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4: At one five pm.
Speaker 3: Yes, correct.
Speaker 4: Where were you at that time?
Speaker 3: I was at Miss Patterson's house conducting the search warrant.
Speaker 7: Okay, can you tell us what this record indicates occurs
Speaker 7: in relation to the phone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So if you look over at so it's one
Speaker 3: forty five pm on five August twenty twenty three, and
Speaker 3: what we see if we look at the right hand column,
Speaker 3: we see the actual SIM card change from Phone A
Speaker 3: into a different phone, A phone with an IMY ending
Speaker 3: four eight nine eight.
Speaker 7: Okay again, did you check that IMI to find out
Speaker 7: what that device was?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a Nokia mobile phone, a smartphone, Yes, yes, ma'am.
Speaker 7: And we heard evidence from doctor Currell that there can
Speaker 7: sometimes be anomalies in the records when a SIM card
Speaker 7: changes over and an existing data session ends.
Speaker 3: Yes. Correct.
Speaker 5: Then he explained that they were then beginning to search
Speaker 5: for this phone A. And this phone A was the
Speaker 5: one that was in the pink case that you just mentioned, Penny,
Speaker 5: another Samsung device, but it was his phone A that
Speaker 5: saw police return to Aaron Patterson's home on the second
Speaker 5: of November twenty twenty three. This is the second search warrant,
Speaker 5: and epping Stall explained that on that warrant they have
Speaker 5: to explain the reasons for why they're attending the property
Speaker 5: and it was a further search for electronic devices. And
Speaker 5: he explained to the jury that they returned home, returned
Speaker 5: to that home really specifically looking for Phone A and
Speaker 5: it's never been located by police.
Speaker 2: Here's a little bit of that evidence. As Steven Eppingstall
Speaker 2: said it to the jury. It's not his real voice.
Speaker 7: We've obviously discussed and heard evidence that Phone B, which
Speaker 7: is the phone that was handed over to Detective Sergeant Farrell,
Speaker 7: was the phone that was received on five August yep
Speaker 7: on to November twenty twenty three. Did police execute a
Speaker 7: further search warrant at the accused home address? Yes, we
Speaker 7: did miss Patisona's home at that time.
Speaker 4: Is that right?
Speaker 7: Yes, she was, And the terms of that warrant was
Speaker 7: to search for several items, including specifically a Samsung Galaxy
Speaker 7: A twenty three phone IMY ending one three seven nine.
Speaker 4: Is that right?
Speaker 3: Yes, we were looking for phone A phone A.
Speaker 7: The phone that we see throughout the bulk of July
Speaker 7: into early August. Is the IMI that seven eight three
Speaker 7: is connected to?
Speaker 4: Is that right?
Speaker 3: Yes? Correct?
Speaker 4: Was a search for.
Speaker 7: That mobile phone conducted by police on that date to November, Yes,
Speaker 7: it was.
Speaker 4: Was that phone located?
Speaker 3: No, it's never been located by police.
Speaker 1: We'll be back after this.
Speaker 2: Moving away from the phones, more of this again. Electronic
Speaker 2: related data and evidence that was presented to the jury
Speaker 2: as part of the informant being questioned by the prosecution.
Speaker 1: Was go through a number of computer.
Speaker 2: Records and this particular and other device records where the
Speaker 2: informant was being asked about some URLs which have already
Speaker 2: been shown to the jury, which is a website, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the website addresses, and how he'd gone about sort of
Speaker 2: investigating what those websites were. And the jury was shown
Speaker 2: a series of screenshots for ten different URLs where the
Speaker 2: informant gave evidence that in this situation, this had been
Speaker 2: taken off a portable case that the listeners have heard
Speaker 2: about before, a copy of a device, and he'd copied
Speaker 2: directly that particular website into a browser, each time taking
Speaker 2: a screenshot on his computer now he was taking these screenshots.
Speaker 2: The jury was told in December twenty twenty four a
Speaker 2: lot of the dates that the URLs, the data they
Speaker 2: had that it had been accessed was back in May
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. So it was explained by the judge
Speaker 2: as well to the jury that there could have been
Speaker 2: potentially changes and updates to these websites since the time
Speaker 2: that they were first accessed, that they were seeing screenshots
Speaker 2: from that twenty four December twenty twenty four time, that
Speaker 2: there was a series of these and they showed a
Speaker 2: number of different screenshots of the I Naturalist website and
Speaker 2: particularly posts or observations around deathcat mushrooms.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the informat was explaining that there was one particular
Speaker 5: sighting that he followed through the records to get to
Speaker 5: and that was a siding at Morabin which we've spoken
Speaker 5: about earlier at Bricker Reserve. It was a gentleman by
Speaker 5: the name of Ivan who had posted this post on
Speaker 5: the our Naturalist website. And the way that they were
Speaker 5: explaining this evidence to the jury was that at the
Speaker 5: same time these II Naturalist websites and this sighting post
Speaker 5: was being accessed, was around about the same time as
Speaker 5: there was evidence on the computer that purchase was being
Speaker 5: made on a different website around about the same time
Speaker 5: from the curR and Barre at Middle Hotel or the
Speaker 5: curR and Barre at Middle Pub And there was a
Speaker 5: receipt that police were able to track down and show
Speaker 5: to the jury that showed that there was an online
Speaker 5: order made for a family dinner around about the same time.
Speaker 5: And they say that that purchase was made using Aaron
Speaker 5: Patterson's credit card details and then that.
Speaker 6: Food was subsequently delivered.
Speaker 5: But Penny and we also heard exactly what was purchased
Speaker 5: in that family dinner.
Speaker 2: Now, the informant went through as part of his evidence
Speaker 2: once it explained the process of accessing these URLs that
Speaker 2: when he was investigating, he had then gone to this
Speaker 2: particular hotel and he'd asked for any transaction sort of
Speaker 2: or orders placed by Aaron Patterson and he had been
Speaker 2: handed essentially a physical receipt that was shown to the
Speaker 2: jury and he took them through what was.
Speaker 1: On this particular receipt.
Speaker 2: Now, what we could see in the courtroom and what
Speaker 2: was read out was it had Erin as the name
Speaker 2: on it and that there was a phone number a
Speaker 2: delivery address and that this transaction had been made around
Speaker 2: seven twenty five pm.
Speaker 1: Now, what was.
Speaker 2: Listed on this particular delivery was a it was called
Speaker 2: a family pack. There was garlic bread listed, two chicken parmesanas,
Speaker 2: a kid's burger, a kid fish coke with no sugar
Speaker 2: for one point two liters, which came to about seventy
Speaker 2: five dollars with delivery just over eighty dollars. And we'll
Speaker 2: hear a little bit more of the evidence of the
Speaker 2: informant now regarding what he said he was able to
Speaker 2: ascertain from looking at these particular payment records and the
Speaker 2: time that they were made.
Speaker 3: So it says this payment was verified with three D
Speaker 3: secure and may be detected from being disputed for fraud,
Speaker 3: and that's on May twenty eight, twenty twenty two, at
Speaker 3: seven twenty five pm. And then it indicates immediately after
Speaker 3: that the payment succeeded, and then there appears to be
Speaker 3: an authentication succeeded and payments started all at seven twenty
Speaker 3: five On May twenty two.
Speaker 5: Eppingstall said that he looked into Aaron Patterson's medical records
Speaker 5: after becoming aware early on in their investigation that she
Speaker 5: had spoken about an alleged cancer diagnosis with her family
Speaker 5: at that particular lunch, and he said what he did
Speaker 5: to investigate that was he first looked at the Victorian
Speaker 5: cancer database, also at her doctor's records, and ultimately he
Speaker 5: said he found that the accused had never been diagnosed
Speaker 5: with cancer at all and there was no records of
Speaker 5: any medical appointments that would.
Speaker 6: Back up that claim.
Speaker 5: It was then the subject of cross examination which we
Speaker 5: heard for the first time for Stephen epping Stall later
Speaker 5: in the day while and truly after lunch, when Colin
Speaker 5: Mandy es SI got on the stand and started asking
Speaker 5: Stephen epping Stall Penny lots more questions about these medical
Speaker 5: records and what police had been able to find.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the jury had previously heard as part of
Speaker 2: what Stephen Eppingstall was saying to the prosecution that he had,
Speaker 2: again as we've talked about, had search warrants and attained
Speaker 2: the data from different medical facilities and those included three
Speaker 2: particular doctor practices, one being in lin Gatha, one in
Speaker 2: karen Burrough and one in Mount Waverley. And so he'd
Speaker 2: spoken about that previously with the prosecution, but Colin Mandy
Speaker 2: took him through these elements in a little bit more
Speaker 2: detail in relation to different elements of Aaron Patterson's medical history.
Speaker 2: But before he did that, he noted to the detective
Speaker 2: that Aaron Patterson has no criminal history. He agreed, and
Speaker 2: that she had been and that he had said in
Speaker 2: what the jury has been played from the police interview
Speaker 2: that she'd been quite helpful and he agreed with that.
Speaker 6: He agreed again, Yeah, he definitely did.
Speaker 5: And he also agreed that Aaron Patterson had given police
Speaker 5: officers permission to break into her property if they needed
Speaker 5: to in order to find any of the lunch leftovers.
Speaker 5: And then we heard a little bit more about about
Speaker 5: the medical records.
Speaker 6: We heard first off a.
Speaker 5: Little bit from Colin Mandy asking the informant whether or
Speaker 5: not Aaron Patterson's medical records showed that she had raised
Speaker 5: fears that she may have had ovarian cancer with doctors
Speaker 5: as early as October.
Speaker 6: Twenty twenty one.
Speaker 5: Penny, you just mentioned there was three different medical practice
Speaker 5: records that were referred to, but the informant was really
Speaker 5: taken back to October twenty twenty one and was asked
Speaker 5: whether or not he could confirm these medical records that
Speaker 5: were displayed on the screen confirmed that Aaron Patterson had
Speaker 5: fact made queries over whether or not she may have
Speaker 5: ovarian cancer. Then also heart failure, ms, chronic fatigue. These
Speaker 5: types of things were documented in some of these medical
Speaker 5: notes that have been made by made by doctors. And
Speaker 5: there was also some text messages to her estranged husband,
Speaker 5: Simon Patterson that spoke about these same medical concerns around
Speaker 5: about the same time as though the doctors were documenting
Speaker 5: those things in her medical records.
Speaker 2: Now we'll play you a little bit of the evidence
Speaker 2: as the court heard it. This is while the informant
Speaker 2: is being cross examined by the defense by Colin Mandy
Speaker 2: sc and it's in relation to a particular number of
Speaker 2: medical records around changes in Aaron Patterson's health.
Speaker 8: There's a consultation on the twenty first October twenty twenty one.
Speaker 8: Do you see that, Yes, Sir I do with Cassie jw.
Speaker 8: You recognize that name, Yes, Sir I do, and that's
Speaker 8: it Liam Gatha. Yes, And we can see the last
Speaker 8: paragraph says Aaron worries about ovary cancer, has been googling
Speaker 8: her symptoms, think her symptoms may be suggestive of overary cancer.
Speaker 8: And then us which we understand to be ultrasound ovaries
Speaker 8: review in two weeks with results.
Speaker 1: Do you see that, yes, sir?
Speaker 8: And then above that some results received reviewed all fine,
Speaker 8: and then MRI booked in six November. Yes, and ultrasound
Speaker 8: booked in first November, Yes, sir. And you asked some
Speaker 8: questions this morning by miss Warren about whether or not
Speaker 8: there was any record of an MRI, but I think
Speaker 8: the questions were restricted to January to August of twenty
Speaker 8: twenty three. Yes, correct, sir, And then above that a
Speaker 8: further consultation which is on the twenty eighth of October
Speaker 8: at nine thirty three am with Cassie jew And it
Speaker 8: says this is a referral letter to a general physician
Speaker 8: called Dr Ogilby thank you for seeing Aaron, who is
Speaker 8: a mother of two beautiful young kids and lives with
Speaker 8: her husband. Over the past few months, Aaron has experienced
Speaker 8: a series of non specific symptoms including extreme fatigue, lathery.
Speaker 8: I think that should say lethargy, but it says lathery, headache,
Speaker 8: sore and dry eyes, nausea, poor appetite, indigestion, altered bowel habits,
Speaker 8: overactive bladder with urinary incontinence, irregular period, weight gait, probably
Speaker 8: gain pins and needles in her hands and feet, clumsiness
Speaker 8: in feet.
Speaker 3: Is that right, yes, sir.
Speaker 8: Other than that, she has good general health in the past,
Speaker 8: and she is not on any medications. I knew erin
Speaker 8: before as we went to the same church, but I
Speaker 8: only started to see her as a patient which she
Speaker 8: presented to our clinic for the above problems. She looked
Speaker 8: very different from what I know of her, as she
Speaker 8: seems to put on a lot of weight and looks
Speaker 8: very swollen in the face, legs, and feet. Other than
Speaker 8: the generalized swelling, her physical examination is unremarkable. I have
Speaker 8: organized some investigations. All other routine tests are normal. And
Speaker 8: that's a letter to doctor Ogilby, who, according to the
Speaker 8: top line, is a general physician. Yes, sir, that's a
Speaker 8: referral letter, yep.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 2: As well as these discussions around concerns that Aaron Patterson
Speaker 2: had brought to doctors about symptoms she'd been googling regarding
Speaker 2: ovarian cancer and various other elements, there was also quite
Speaker 2: a bit of talk around procedures that she'd been booked
Speaker 2: in to undergo, and some of those around sort of
Speaker 2: her heart and other things. And it was while she
Speaker 2: was on a holiday in Tasmania. The jury was told
Speaker 2: that she had this communication back and forth with her
Speaker 2: strange partner, Simon Patterson.
Speaker 5: Yeh was the fourth of the first twenty twenty two
Speaker 5: I've got in my notes here, Penny that there was
Speaker 5: signal messages between these strange couple and in one Aaron
Speaker 5: Patterson had messaged quote, it's my heart that's troubling me.
Speaker 5: Then there was further conversations over the following days as
Speaker 5: well about whether or not she should go public or private,
Speaker 5: and whether or not the cost for private would be more,
Speaker 5: but she wouldn't have to wait with the delays, and
Speaker 5: she also wouldn't then have to go and deal with
Speaker 5: COVID patients going down that particular route as well. There
Speaker 5: was also evidence given from the medical staff and in
Speaker 5: these conversations Aaron Patterson was having with Simon Patterson around
Speaker 5: that time that she'd been googling her symptoms and was
Speaker 5: concerned about her health, and the informant agreed. The informant agreed,
Speaker 5: he said, yes, I agree. This backs up what Colin
Speaker 5: Mandy was saying. It says that Aaron Patterson had been
Speaker 5: googling the symptoms, and he agreed that she'd been concerned
Speaker 5: about her health for this period of time.
Speaker 2: And it was sort of all of this was put
Speaker 2: to the informant as being this was in the brief
Speaker 2: of evidence that you collected, wasn't it? And he did
Speaker 2: agree with most of that. There was a moment where
Speaker 2: it was a little not heated, but there was a
Speaker 2: back and forth for a moment where he was asked
Speaker 2: about some particular medical history regarding her family's medical history
Speaker 2: and their history with cancer. And we'll just play you
Speaker 2: a little bit of what was said there now with
Speaker 2: Colin Mandy and the informant, do.
Speaker 8: You accept that there is material available to investigators and
Speaker 8: on the brief which demonstrated that in October of twenty
Speaker 8: twenty one, Aaron Patterson was concerned about having ovarian cancer, yes, sir,
Speaker 8: And that she sought medical treatment about that or investigations
Speaker 8: medical investigations about that, yes, sir, yep. And that she
Speaker 8: has a family history of avarian cancer, both paternal and maternal,
Speaker 8: with a daughter who had an ovarian mass that is
Speaker 8: an ovarian syst.
Speaker 3: Well, that's self reported, sir.
Speaker 8: But well, I'm asking you about the records.
Speaker 3: The record says that, and that's what you're.
Speaker 8: Going on, detective, aren't you When you're referring to the
Speaker 8: medical records, you're relying on the accuracy of what's contained
Speaker 8: within them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what, Yes, We'll be back with more evidence as
Speaker 2: it's presented to the jury.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this episode of Say Grace.
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Speaker 6: By me Penelope Lesh and me Erin Peace.
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