WEBVTT -  A missing phone and lunch shopping

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<v Speaker 1>Nine podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>In this episode, the informant gives evidence about voones police

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<v Speaker 2>say are connected to Aaron Patterson.

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<v Speaker 1>He's also questioned on the.

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<v Speaker 2>Accused killer's medical history and evidence of googling cancer symptoms.

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<v Speaker 2>The court has also shown her shopping transactions in the

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<v Speaker 2>lead up to the fatal lunch.

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<v Speaker 3>Victoria's mushroom mystery.

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<v Speaker 4>The mushroom lunch that claimed three lives.

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<v Speaker 5>An Australian family's meal is now the center of a

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<v Speaker 5>homicide investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>The bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines.

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<v Speaker 5>Aaron Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch

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<v Speaker 5>she'd serve them at her home.

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<v Speaker 2>I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this

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<v Speaker 2>level of media and public interest. Four of the guests

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<v Speaker 2>of that lunch were much loved members of this church.

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<v Speaker 1>Only one will ever return.

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<v Speaker 5>People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people.

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<v Speaker 2>Today, Aaron Patterson remained here inside her home.

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<v Speaker 1>She's continued to plead her innocence in a court room

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<v Speaker 1>in Country Victoria.

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<v Speaker 2>Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using death cap

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<v Speaker 2>mushrooms to kill. She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three

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<v Speaker 2>of her former in laws and attempting to kill a fourth,

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<v Speaker 2>the town's church pastor. It's up to the jurors to

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<v Speaker 2>decide what happened when Patterson's loved ones sat down to eat. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>the jury has been taken through quite a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>different topics of evidence with the informant, Detective Stephen epping Stall,

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<v Speaker 2>which people will have heard a little bit of in

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<v Speaker 2>our last episode talking about the police interview. But we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to go through quite a few different elements that

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<v Speaker 2>he's been touching on in his evidence with both the

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<v Speaker 2>prosecution and the defense, and we'll take people through that

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<v Speaker 2>in sort of topic order.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, the jury was told Aaron Patterson was charged on

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<v Speaker 5>the second of November twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 6>This was just after a.

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<v Speaker 5>Second search warrant was executed on her house. We've heard

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<v Speaker 5>during the evidence from Steph eppenste that a first search

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<v Speaker 5>warrant was executed on her Lee and Gatha home around

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<v Speaker 5>the fifth of August twenty twenty three, and then in

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<v Speaker 5>November we heard police returned because they were continuing to

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<v Speaker 5>look for more items, so they had more items, more

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<v Speaker 5>electronic devices on that search warrant. When they returned a

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<v Speaker 5>second time, but then ultimately Aaron Patterson was charged soon

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<v Speaker 5>after that second search warrant, and.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll touch on some more parts of that search warrant

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<v Speaker 2>and various elements around the electronic devices in this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>But what's also been touched on by Steven Eppingstall is

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<v Speaker 2>there's been some CCTV played to the jury from outside

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<v Speaker 2>a subway store in Lee and Gather and the jury

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<v Speaker 2>has been told that this was the night following the lunch.

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<v Speaker 2>While Aaron Patterson had given it, it's come through in

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<v Speaker 2>other people's evidence that she had been taking her son's

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<v Speaker 2>friend home that night before taking him to the subway,

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<v Speaker 2>and Stephen Eppingstall mentioned in his evidence that you could

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<v Speaker 2>see her son walking in and then back out and waiting,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was said to him by the prosecution there's

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<v Speaker 2>a missing eleven minutes where the car the red card

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<v Speaker 2>is appears before it comes back. When he was asked

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<v Speaker 2>about that, Stephen Apingstall said, yes, we weren't able to

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<v Speaker 2>track where the car went in that time. We'd gone

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<v Speaker 2>and collected this CCTV, but we weren't able to see

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<v Speaker 2>where it went. And the prosecution touched on the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that another witness, a child protection worker, had said Aaron

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<v Speaker 2>Patterson told her that that night she'd also gone to Woolworth's.

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<v Speaker 2>But Stephen Eppingstall, as he said in his evidence, they

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<v Speaker 2>weren't able to verify exactly where the car went over

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<v Speaker 2>those eleven minutes. There was another element that was also

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<v Speaker 2>clarified by the detective. He was asked about the video

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<v Speaker 2>statement that Aaron Patterson's daughter made. Now, initially he confirmed

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<v Speaker 2>that yes, in that what the jury has seen, this

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<v Speaker 2>pre recorded bit of evidence, that girl had said no

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<v Speaker 2>when she was asked if she'd ever been to an

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<v Speaker 2>Asian grocery store with her mum. But he then clarified

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<v Speaker 2>that there was a change to what she had said

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<v Speaker 2>sort of closer to the trial.

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<v Speaker 5>And on the eve of the trial, Penny, we were

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<v Speaker 5>told that the child was asked to review her video statement,

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<v Speaker 5>a video recorded statement, and in fact that she said

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<v Speaker 5>no when talking to that support worker the scene and

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<v Speaker 5>time just before the trial. She did have a memory

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<v Speaker 5>of attending it Asian food shop with her mother for

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<v Speaker 5>cooking reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so when we're talking about these shops, there's

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<v Speaker 2>been a number of other shopping elements brought up throughout

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<v Speaker 2>Stephen Eppingstall's evidence, and we're going to go through that

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<v Speaker 2>sort of as one topic as the jury heard it

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<v Speaker 2>really at this stage. So he was taken by the

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<v Speaker 2>prosecution through Aaron Patterson's visits to Woolworth's in.

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<v Speaker 1>Lee and Gatha.

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<v Speaker 2>Now the jury has heard that Aaron Patterson through other

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<v Speaker 2>people's evidence. They've recalled her telling them that she purchased

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<v Speaker 2>the majority of the ingredients for this lunch from that

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<v Speaker 2>local Woolworths prior to the.

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<v Speaker 1>Lunch on the twenty ninth of July.

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<v Speaker 2>And Steven Eppingstall gave evidence that he then reviewed transactions

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<v Speaker 2>from Aaron Patterson between the twenty third and twenty eighth

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<v Speaker 2>of July, and that he did that through looking at

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<v Speaker 2>her Woolworth's rewards card. And there was a bit of

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<v Speaker 2>an explanation about that.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, he was explaining that that was a way that

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<v Speaker 5>they could see the list of the exact items that

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<v Speaker 5>had been purchased. Now this was a self serve checkout

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<v Speaker 5>on all occasions, he was explaining to the jury. And

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<v Speaker 5>then he was asked to read through the items that

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<v Speaker 5>were on the list for each of those shopping visits.

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<v Speaker 5>And we heard that Aaron Patterson was allegedly purchasing lots

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<v Speaker 5>of pastry, different types of pastry, puff pastry and frozen

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<v Speaker 5>feelings pastry.

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<v Speaker 6>We also heard that.

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<v Speaker 5>There was a number of different packets of fresh mushrooms

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<v Speaker 5>on those consecutive days that had been purchased. We also

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<v Speaker 5>heard that there was mashed potato, There was beans and

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<v Speaker 5>also onions, yeah, and beef.

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<v Speaker 2>Steaks or were listed in those transactions as well. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>to put a sort of a bit of a visual

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<v Speaker 2>element to it for the jury, this was a huge

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<v Speaker 2>amount of information in columns and all written down as

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<v Speaker 2>different transactions over different days of this week, but the

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<v Speaker 2>areas that the jury attention was being brought to and

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<v Speaker 2>the detective as part of his evidence were highlighted in

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<v Speaker 2>yellow particular items. So, like you mentioned, there was mushrooms

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<v Speaker 2>sliced and there'd be sort of two in one transaction

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<v Speaker 2>and then two there was two in another as well

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<v Speaker 2>as well as these sort of five different pieces of

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<v Speaker 2>beef over a couple of days. And as the detective

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<v Speaker 2>went through all of this evidence, there was a moment

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<v Speaker 2>where he was asked about what one of the columns meant,

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<v Speaker 2>and as he got to that, there was actually an

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<v Speaker 2>interruption from the jury when he said, oh, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>actually I'm not quite sure what that is for.

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<v Speaker 6>The fellow column.

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<v Speaker 2>And as he was asked by Jane Warren for the

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<v Speaker 2>prosecution and what's that particular column there, someone from the

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<v Speaker 2>jury said I know.

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<v Speaker 1>When he said that he didn't.

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<v Speaker 5>There was a lot of laughter in the courtroom at

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<v Speaker 5>that stage. The Jura looked quite embarrassed and actually put

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<v Speaker 5>her hand to her mouth almost to stop herself talking,

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<v Speaker 5>because she realized in that moment she probably shouldn't have

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<v Speaker 5>been interrupting what was going on with the evidence. The

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<v Speaker 5>judge then interjected quite quickly and also had a bit

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<v Speaker 5>of a chuckle, but said to this particular Dura, I

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<v Speaker 5>think it's best if you save those conversations for the

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<v Speaker 5>jury room and not bring it up here in the courtroom.

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<v Speaker 5>So we are listening to some quite serious evidence, but

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<v Speaker 5>we have had a few of these lighthearted moments, and

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<v Speaker 5>this was one where there was quite a roar of laughter.

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<v Speaker 5>I think nearly everybody in the room had a bit

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<v Speaker 5>of a chuckle. Then when this particular europe Yeah put

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<v Speaker 5>her hand up and said I think I can answer that,

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<v Speaker 5>your honor, and they quickly moved on to more more

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<v Speaker 5>about the grocery shopping list, and the informant really went

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<v Speaker 5>through and listed each each of those.

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<v Speaker 6>I've got here in my notes that.

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<v Speaker 5>On Sunday, the twenty third of July, for example, one

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<v Speaker 5>of some of the items purchased there was two different

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<v Speaker 5>lots of sliced mushrooms at five hundred grams a kilogram

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<v Speaker 5>of puff pastry, three hundred and seventy five grams of

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<v Speaker 5>Philo pastry onions of the French Chalotte version, and then

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<v Speaker 5>similar other purchases that happened on also on the twenty

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<v Speaker 5>seventh and twenty eighth of July. We know the lunch

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<v Speaker 5>was on the twenty ninth of July twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 5>So we heard a lot about that shopping list or

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<v Speaker 5>the list of items that had been purchased during those

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<v Speaker 5>particular days, and that evidence went on for quite a while.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and moving to sort of the next part of

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<v Speaker 2>the evidence that this detective was taken through again sort

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<v Speaker 2>of in the vein of shopping this was banked transactions

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<v Speaker 2>from a Bendigo bank account. Now he was taken through

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<v Speaker 2>the details of that, saying that sort of was Aaron

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<v Speaker 2>Patterson's or at least a bank account attached to her.

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<v Speaker 1>We could see and what was being shown on the screen.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of the particulars were sort of taken out

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<v Speaker 2>on what was being shown to the courtroom, but you

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<v Speaker 2>could see her name, Aaron Trudy Patterson listed on there.

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<v Speaker 2>And there were three specific transactions that the detective and

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<v Speaker 2>the jury were taken through. The first, as it came

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<v Speaker 2>up though it is the last in date, was a

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<v Speaker 2>transaction for what was described as the Coon Warrior tip

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<v Speaker 2>or it is the sort of the waste transfer station,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was on the second of August around sort

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<v Speaker 2>of eleven forty am in the morning around that time.

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<v Speaker 1>Then the two.

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<v Speaker 2>Others that were touched on were a transaction for a

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<v Speaker 2>service station, a BP service station, a colder mead. Now

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<v Speaker 2>that was on the thirtieth of July, the day after

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<v Speaker 2>the lunch.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, that receipt was played on the screen as well

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<v Speaker 5>for the jury as the informt was asked to confirm

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<v Speaker 5>these exhibits essentially, and then they were logged for the

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<v Speaker 5>jury so they can read them later on on their

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<v Speaker 5>iPads if they wish. Even the types of food that

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<v Speaker 5>were purchased at that particular occasion. It was a ham,

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<v Speaker 5>cheese and tomato sandwich, it was a chili chicken rap

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<v Speaker 5>and there was also something called a blister pack and

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<v Speaker 5>the informant was asked if he knew what that was

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<v Speaker 5>and he said he thought it was gum and there

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<v Speaker 5>was some more giggles around that, but we even got

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<v Speaker 5>the dollar amounts and things like that before he went

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<v Speaker 5>into the third transaction.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so that particular receipt that you're talking about there,

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<v Speaker 2>that was the physical receipt that the detective gave evidence

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<v Speaker 2>had sort of been sort of recovered from the service

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<v Speaker 2>station alongside these actual bank records, and it was mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>to the jury as part of this evidence that they

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<v Speaker 2>had seen CCTV of this particular.

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<v Speaker 1>Visit on the thirtieth.

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<v Speaker 2>But then they were also shown a transaction in that

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<v Speaker 2>bank account for it was that Cooi Rup which is

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<v Speaker 2>again in the Gippsland area, and the jury had heard

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<v Speaker 2>from the prosecutor as part of this she said, now

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<v Speaker 2>there was a mention in the Sun's evidence that there'd

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<v Speaker 2>been a stop on that particular day when they were

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<v Speaker 2>traveling through the area basically what was a donut van

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<v Speaker 2>and that came up with a donut van sort of

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<v Speaker 2>name as part of that transaction. And then that particular

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<v Speaker 2>amount there for about sort of thirteen dollars ten I

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<v Speaker 2>think it was, and it was mentioned to the jury

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<v Speaker 2>by the prosecutor. Remember we've heard this evidence before and

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<v Speaker 2>that there was three dim sims, a hot dog and

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<v Speaker 2>a coffee purchased as part of that transaction.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>What an informant is called to give evidence in a

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<v Speaker 5>trial such as this, they're essentially being asked and this

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<v Speaker 5>we saw this today to confirm. These are the things

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<v Speaker 5>that you've got sort of going from A to Z

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<v Speaker 5>of all the documents and all the evidence you've collected

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<v Speaker 5>along the way. So they moved through topics pretty quickly.

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<v Speaker 5>Some of them they spend a little bit more time

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<v Speaker 5>on today. But after we went through the bank transaction records,

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<v Speaker 5>which was only a couple of minutes that were spoken about,

0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.320
<v Speaker 5>they quickly moved to the next topic, Penny, and that

0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:48.920
<v Speaker 5>was to do with Gaiel Patterson's diary.

0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:49.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.560
<v Speaker 2>So Gaiel Patterson's diary was entered into evidence, and this

0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.040
<v Speaker 2>was a hand sort of written diary, the sort of

0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.400
<v Speaker 2>diary that you would make appointments for for your week.

0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.680
<v Speaker 6>It was a week view by the Monday Boy to Sunday.

0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:05.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it was taken through quite a few different

0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:09.320
<v Speaker 2>dates across varying time frames in twenty twenty three. But

0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.800
<v Speaker 2>some of the entries that were in that the jury

0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.080
<v Speaker 2>was sort of taken through and the detective was asked

0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:16.600
<v Speaker 2>to read these out and you'll hear a little bit

0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:18.280
<v Speaker 2>of that evidence in a moment. But on the twenty

0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.280
<v Speaker 2>eighth of June, which was a Wednesday, there was some

0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:24.280
<v Speaker 2>handwritten cursive there that said Erin Saint Vincent's arm lump.

0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.199
<v Speaker 2>And then on the twenty ninth of July lunch at

0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:31.480
<v Speaker 2>Erin's with Heather and Ian, and then the detective was

0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.800
<v Speaker 2>asked whether he had, through some of his investigation, checked

0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.160
<v Speaker 2>Aaron Patterson's medical records, and he gave evidence that yes,

0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.439
<v Speaker 2>he had checked her medical records, particularly for the time

0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.840
<v Speaker 2>of January twenty twenty three through to around this time

0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.680
<v Speaker 2>of the lunch and just after in August as well.

0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:52.559
<v Speaker 2>He was asked whether Aaron Patterson had intended Saint Vincent's

0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:54.480
<v Speaker 2>hospital on the twenty eighth of June or if there

0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:56.960
<v Speaker 2>was a medical appointment through her Medicare history and other

0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.280
<v Speaker 2>things he was looking at for that date, as mentioned

0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.200
<v Speaker 2>in the diary, and he said no, there were no

0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.320
<v Speaker 2>records that he'd been able to find, and that when

0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.199
<v Speaker 2>he checked with the hospital and his team contacted them,

0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.080
<v Speaker 2>they weren't able to confirm that there had been a

0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.520
<v Speaker 2>visit there either, and that's where the jury was then

0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:15.080
<v Speaker 2>moved on to another element of evidence connected to Gail Patterson,

0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.000
<v Speaker 2>that being Gail Patterson's mobile phone.

0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.960
<v Speaker 5>So there was also text messages around this time that

0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.360
<v Speaker 5>the informant was taken to between who the prosecutions say

0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.920
<v Speaker 5>is Aaron Patterson and Gail Patterson. And in these conversations

0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.800
<v Speaker 5>which will now take you through, they were speaking about

0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.600
<v Speaker 5>these medical appointments and how Aaron Patterson was going.

0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:34.600
<v Speaker 1>A message was read to the jury.

0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:36.600
<v Speaker 2>They were told this was sent on the twenty eighth

0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:40.200
<v Speaker 2>of June, round seven thirty pm from Gayle's phone saying, Hi, erin,

0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.280
<v Speaker 2>just wondering how you got on with your appointment today,

0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Love Gail and don Now here's a little bit of

0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:50.319
<v Speaker 2>what the jury heard from Stephen Eppingstall while he was

0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:52.520
<v Speaker 2>giving his evidence with Jane Warren from the prosecution.

0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:56.160
<v Speaker 7>It's voiced by actors twenty nine June twenty twenty three,

0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:01.800
<v Speaker 7>eleven fifty two am. Read out that text please yep.

0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.160
<v Speaker 3>Hi, Gail. Sorry, I had taken my daughter to see

0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.120
<v Speaker 3>a movie last night. We saw The Little Mermaid. The

0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.640
<v Speaker 3>appointment went okay, thanks for asking. I had a needle

0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.320
<v Speaker 3>biopsy taken of the lump and I'm returning for an

0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.520
<v Speaker 3>MRI next week and we'll know more after the results

0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:18.920
<v Speaker 3>of those two things.

0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.319
<v Speaker 7>Did you find any evidence in the accused medical records

0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.080
<v Speaker 7>of her having had a needle biopsy of a lump?

0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:25.520
<v Speaker 3>No?

0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.000
<v Speaker 7>Did you find any evidence in the accused medical records

0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 7>of her being referred for or scheduled or having an MRI?

0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:33.520
<v Speaker 3>No?

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.400
<v Speaker 7>Then if we look please there's a response there from

0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:41.319
<v Speaker 7>Gail to Aaron Patterson twenty ninth of June twenty twenty

0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.800
<v Speaker 7>three at six twenty six pm.

0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.720
<v Speaker 4>Yes, correct, and just read that out please yep.

0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.680
<v Speaker 3>That's a test of patience, isn't it. Praying you'll know

0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.719
<v Speaker 3>God's peace. We're just ready to relax. Nice to have

0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:57.839
<v Speaker 3>the fire warming us in this cold weather.

0:13:58.360 --> 0:13:58.560
<v Speaker 6>XO.

0:13:59.080 --> 0:13:59.440
<v Speaker 4>Okay.

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.760
<v Speaker 7>If we go to the message above, that's number nine

0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:07.240
<v Speaker 7>timestamp six July twenty twenty three at eight fifteen pm.

0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.040
<v Speaker 7>This is from Gail Patterson to Aaron Patterson.

0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:12.200
<v Speaker 3>Yes correct?

0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:13.480
<v Speaker 4>Could you read that out please?

0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 3>Hi Erin, How did you get on yesterday with your

0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.200
<v Speaker 3>medical test? Love Don and Gail?

0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.720
<v Speaker 7>And then the final message timestamp seven July twenty twenty three,

0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.480
<v Speaker 7>six forty six pm. This is from Aaron Patterson to

0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.560
<v Speaker 7>Gail Patterson. Yes correct, read that out please?

0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.720
<v Speaker 3>Thanks for your message, Don and Gail. There's a bit

0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 3>to digest with everything that's come out of it all.

0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.760
<v Speaker 3>I might talk more about it with you when I

0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:41.840
<v Speaker 3>see you in person, Love Erin.

0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.880
<v Speaker 7>Okay, did you find in the medical records you reviewed

0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:50.280
<v Speaker 7>any medical appointments for the accused on six July twenty

0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 7>twenty three.

0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:54.200
<v Speaker 2>No, there was quite a bit of different evidence given

0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.360
<v Speaker 2>today around different electronic devices, but particularly mobile phones. And

0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.120
<v Speaker 2>we'll try in the most succinct way we can to

0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:05.600
<v Speaker 2>talk about this evidence that was presented to the jury

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.040
<v Speaker 2>through the informant when it came to mobile phones that

0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.200
<v Speaker 2>had been seized by his team with the homicide squad

0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 2>as part of the search warrants that we've heard about.

0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.760
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, there was four different phones that were mentioned today,

0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:21.120
<v Speaker 5>Penny and two sim cards, and essentially the prosecution alleged

0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.040
<v Speaker 5>that Aaron Patterson moved these two SIM cards across the

0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.800
<v Speaker 5>multiple phones that she had in her possession in the

0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.600
<v Speaker 5>months leading up to and shortly after the time of

0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.240
<v Speaker 5>the fatal lunch. And it was those particular electronic devices.

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.280
<v Speaker 5>And we heard a lot about imy numbers and SIM

0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.320
<v Speaker 5>card numbers and phone numbers and all of these types

0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.360
<v Speaker 5>of things. But to try and just simplify it all,

0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:43.400
<v Speaker 5>there was four phones referred to an evidence. One was

0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.280
<v Speaker 5>called the A twenty three phone, one was called Phone

0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.640
<v Speaker 5>A third was called Phone B, and the fourth was

0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:51.320
<v Speaker 5>called the Nokia smartphone.

0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:51.800
<v Speaker 7>Now.

0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:52.880
<v Speaker 6>The first three were all.

0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.840
<v Speaker 5>Samsung Galaxy type phones, and then the Nokia smartphone was

0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.080
<v Speaker 5>the one at the end. The way that the evidence

0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:00.720
<v Speaker 5>was explained to the jury was that the first mobile

0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.400
<v Speaker 5>phone A twenty three now that was found in a

0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.760
<v Speaker 5>cupboard in the bedroom of the accused teenage son during

0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:11.080
<v Speaker 5>the first search warrant in August twenty twenty three. It's

0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.800
<v Speaker 5>on that particular phone that the informants said that police

0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:17.280
<v Speaker 5>found communications the day alleged was between Aaron Patterson and

0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.480
<v Speaker 5>some Facebook friends. It had occurred months earlier in December

0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.680
<v Speaker 5>twenty twenty two, and that's where she'd spoken about smashing

0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.240
<v Speaker 5>her phone screen while on holiday to New Zealand and

0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:27.920
<v Speaker 5>then having to go and purchase another one of the

0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:28.960
<v Speaker 5>Samsung phones.

0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:31.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we'll give you a little bit of the evidence

0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:32.640
<v Speaker 1>as the jury heard it.

0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.520
<v Speaker 2>This was given by Steven Eppingstall and Jane Warren from

0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:39.360
<v Speaker 2>the prosecution as part of this questioning, and they're reading

0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.560
<v Speaker 2>out Facebook messages and the times and dates associated with those.

0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.480
<v Speaker 3>The next message is at ten oh six pm from

0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:50.160
<v Speaker 3>Erin and it reads, anyway, I've been googling everything trying

0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.040
<v Speaker 3>to get into my phone and emails and just couldn't.

0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:55.920
<v Speaker 3>But then someone suggested I could do a hard reboot

0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.600
<v Speaker 3>of my phone and restart it in safe mode and

0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.520
<v Speaker 3>it might fix the frozen screen issue. And it worked

0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.439
<v Speaker 3>for now, but the screen is broken and might freeze

0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.200
<v Speaker 3>again at any second. So now that I am in,

0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.679
<v Speaker 3>I am copying down everything I need from it. Loll and.

0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:14.520
<v Speaker 3>Jenny Hay responds on seventeen December twenty twenty two at

0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.400
<v Speaker 3>ten ten pm. Or how stressful, Erin. Maybe you can

0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.960
<v Speaker 3>get the screen fixed in enz if they can do

0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:25.320
<v Speaker 3>it quickly. Erin responds two minutes later at ten twelve

0:17:25.440 --> 0:17:28.920
<v Speaker 3>pm yeah, I'm going to see if I can tomorrow.

0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.280
<v Speaker 3>It makes me realize how ridiculous it is that having

0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:35.480
<v Speaker 3>a broken phone makes everything so difficult. I can't get

0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.000
<v Speaker 3>into my banking on my laptop because it sends an

0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.720
<v Speaker 3>authorization SMS to my phone, et cetera, et cetera. Like

0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.919
<v Speaker 3>how dumb am I to make everything dependent on a

0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:46.120
<v Speaker 3>single bloody device?

0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.399
<v Speaker 4>And then next page, please yep.

0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.000
<v Speaker 3>So this is a message from Erin on nineteen December

0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:56.240
<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty two at five eighteen pm, and it reads

0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.040
<v Speaker 3>I had to buy a new phone today because I

0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.760
<v Speaker 3>couldn't get the other one unfixed IDK, which is I

0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.800
<v Speaker 3>don't know why, but setting up a new phone is

0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:07.159
<v Speaker 3>incredibly stressful for me.

0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:09.720
<v Speaker 4>And then final paid please yep.

0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.480
<v Speaker 3>And again this is a message from Erin on nineteen

0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:16.760
<v Speaker 3>December twenty twenty two. This one's at ten fifty eight pm.

0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.080
<v Speaker 3>I got a Samsung Galaxy A twenty three, the cheapest

0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.800
<v Speaker 3>I could get while not being an absolute piece of

0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:27.119
<v Speaker 3>shit phone. It was still four hundred dollars though emoji emoji.

0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:29.159
<v Speaker 6>We then heard evidence about Phone B.

0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.520
<v Speaker 5>Now this is the handset that the informant said the

0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.520
<v Speaker 5>accused had physically handed police during that first search warrant

0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:38.680
<v Speaker 5>in August twenty twenty three, and we saw some footage

0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:42.240
<v Speaker 5>and some still images of that happening of Aaron Patterson

0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.000
<v Speaker 5>handing that phone over to Luke Farrell who was working

0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:47.680
<v Speaker 5>as part of the homicide squad team on that day,

0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:49.680
<v Speaker 5>and it appeared to show a mobile phone that was

0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.719
<v Speaker 5>housed in an orange or red type phone case. And

0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.880
<v Speaker 5>as I said, that was played to the court, Eppingstall

0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.040
<v Speaker 5>said it was this phone that was connected to a

0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.000
<v Speaker 5>handset for the first time on the eleventh of July

0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.800
<v Speaker 5>twenty twenty three, because earlier, he was explaining, it had

0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.720
<v Speaker 5>only been seen to be used in a Samsung tablet

0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:12.240
<v Speaker 5>device before then being placed in phone B he set

0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.720
<v Speaker 5>around August three, twenty twenty three, about five days after

0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:16.600
<v Speaker 5>the lunch.

0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:20.520
<v Speaker 2>And before Stephen Eppingstall explained this particular element regarding the

0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.720
<v Speaker 2>tablet and the phone in his evidence and what he

0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.840
<v Speaker 2>says that evidence showed when the jury was shown this

0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:29.359
<v Speaker 2>steal image that had come from a video of the

0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.879
<v Speaker 2>handover of the phone with Luke Farrell, and it appeared

0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:33.919
<v Speaker 2>to be in a ready orange colored case.

0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:35.240
<v Speaker 1>They were also.

0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Shown prior to that another steal image from CCTV from

0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:41.680
<v Speaker 2>they were told Lee and Gatha Hospital, and they were

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:45.359
<v Speaker 2>told that that was from the thirty first of July,

0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.640
<v Speaker 2>so two days after the lunch before this search warrant occurred.

0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.320
<v Speaker 2>And in that image as they zoomed in, it was

0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:54.360
<v Speaker 2>described by the prosecution and the detective.

0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:55.560
<v Speaker 1>Agreed with this that had appeared.

0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.439
<v Speaker 2>The phone in that image was in a pink case

0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:02.000
<v Speaker 2>when the image with Luke Farrell was shown, and that

0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:05.000
<v Speaker 2>the prosecutor noted in front of the jury, We'll leave

0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.080
<v Speaker 2>it up to the jury to decide what color that

0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.560
<v Speaker 2>phone is. But going to that evidence that you were

0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:13.640
<v Speaker 2>just mentioning regarding what Stephen Eppingstall said he was able

0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.680
<v Speaker 2>to ascertain from some records regarding this particular phone number

0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:19.679
<v Speaker 2>and SIM and the device as it was connected to.

0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:22.280
<v Speaker 1>Here's a little bit of what he said to the

0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.600
<v Speaker 1>court about that element of the investigation.

0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:27.280
<v Speaker 4>At eighteen oh three or six p oh three pm.

0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.119
<v Speaker 7>If we go across that far right hand column, what

0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:31.880
<v Speaker 7>happens there?

0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:33.960
<v Speaker 4>What do we see happen there?

0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.920
<v Speaker 3>So we see that the IMI has changed and what

0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.360
<v Speaker 3>that indicates is that the simcard for the eight three

0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.520
<v Speaker 3>five number has been removed from the tablet device that

0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.760
<v Speaker 3>it was in and it's been placed into a new device,

0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.800
<v Speaker 3>and it's really easy for us to identify those devices.

0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:54.480
<v Speaker 3>All we have to do is take that IMEI number,

0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:58.280
<v Speaker 3>plug it into a publicly available website and it will

0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:00.560
<v Speaker 3>identify the exact device that is.

0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:04.920
<v Speaker 7>Okay, and that device for imy ending two seven six

0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:05.639
<v Speaker 7>y two.

0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:06.920
<v Speaker 4>What device was that?

0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:11.200
<v Speaker 3>That's a Samsung Galaxy, Samsung Galaxy A twenty three mobile phone.

0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:14.800
<v Speaker 7>And did you identify that as ultimately the mobile phone

0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:18.359
<v Speaker 7>that miss Patterson handed to Detective Senior Sergeant Luke Farrell

0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:19.320
<v Speaker 7>on five August.

0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so it's Phone B as we've been referring to

0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:23.680
<v Speaker 3>it throughout this.

0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:28.280
<v Speaker 7>Matter, Okay, and that phone is the same phone that

0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.800
<v Speaker 7>we have the records for which show several factory resets

0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:34.040
<v Speaker 7>occurred in August early August.

0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:35.320
<v Speaker 3>Yes, correct.

0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:38.640
<v Speaker 5>Eppingstall went further than to explain that as they looked

0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.240
<v Speaker 5>at the different records and the data that they could find,

0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.520
<v Speaker 5>explaining that every phone or device has a serial number

0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:48.399
<v Speaker 5>and IMI number, he said, what it indicated was during

0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.760
<v Speaker 5>that time of the police search of the house, the

0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.840
<v Speaker 5>first search, one of those two simcards was moved from

0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:57.159
<v Speaker 5>one of those Samsung devices into a Nokia smartphone.

0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:01.400
<v Speaker 7>Detective, there is some orange highlighting this time, yes, ma'am.

0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:02.960
<v Speaker 4>And the first row of.

0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:06.680
<v Speaker 7>Orange highlighting appears in five August twenty twenty three.

0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:08.880
<v Speaker 4>At one five pm.

0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:10.160
<v Speaker 3>Yes, correct.

0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:11.600
<v Speaker 4>Where were you at that time?

0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:15.240
<v Speaker 3>I was at Miss Patterson's house conducting the search warrant.

0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.520
<v Speaker 7>Okay, can you tell us what this record indicates occurs

0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:19.800
<v Speaker 7>in relation to the phone.

0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So if you look over at so it's one

0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.719
<v Speaker 3>forty five pm on five August twenty twenty three, and

0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.880
<v Speaker 3>what we see if we look at the right hand column,

0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.919
<v Speaker 3>we see the actual SIM card change from Phone A

0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:37.320
<v Speaker 3>into a different phone, A phone with an IMY ending

0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:38.520
<v Speaker 3>four eight nine eight.

0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:43.800
<v Speaker 7>Okay again, did you check that IMI to find out

0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:45.359
<v Speaker 7>what that device was?

0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:50.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a Nokia mobile phone, a smartphone, Yes, yes, ma'am.

0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:53.480
<v Speaker 7>And we heard evidence from doctor Currell that there can

0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:56.760
<v Speaker 7>sometimes be anomalies in the records when a SIM card

0:22:56.880 --> 0:22:59.760
<v Speaker 7>changes over and an existing data session ends.

0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:00.760
<v Speaker 3>Yes. Correct.

0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:04.879
<v Speaker 5>Then he explained that they were then beginning to search

0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.119
<v Speaker 5>for this phone A. And this phone A was the

0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:10.040
<v Speaker 5>one that was in the pink case that you just mentioned, Penny,

0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.159
<v Speaker 5>another Samsung device, but it was his phone A that

0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:17.359
<v Speaker 5>saw police return to Aaron Patterson's home on the second

0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:20.960
<v Speaker 5>of November twenty twenty three. This is the second search warrant,

0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:23.800
<v Speaker 5>and epping Stall explained that on that warrant they have

0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:26.600
<v Speaker 5>to explain the reasons for why they're attending the property

0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:29.479
<v Speaker 5>and it was a further search for electronic devices. And

0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:33.000
<v Speaker 5>he explained to the jury that they returned home, returned

0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:36.080
<v Speaker 5>to that home really specifically looking for Phone A and

0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:37.760
<v Speaker 5>it's never been located by police.

0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Here's a little bit of that evidence. As Steven Eppingstall

0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:43.520
<v Speaker 2>said it to the jury. It's not his real voice.

0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:48.040
<v Speaker 7>We've obviously discussed and heard evidence that Phone B, which

0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:51.159
<v Speaker 7>is the phone that was handed over to Detective Sergeant Farrell,

0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:54.520
<v Speaker 7>was the phone that was received on five August yep

0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:59.240
<v Speaker 7>on to November twenty twenty three. Did police execute a

0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:03.320
<v Speaker 7>further search warrant at the accused home address? Yes, we

0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:05.720
<v Speaker 7>did miss Patisona's home at that time.

0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:06.480
<v Speaker 4>Is that right?

0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:10.399
<v Speaker 7>Yes, she was, And the terms of that warrant was

0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:16.200
<v Speaker 7>to search for several items, including specifically a Samsung Galaxy

0:24:16.280 --> 0:24:20.680
<v Speaker 7>A twenty three phone IMY ending one three seven nine.

0:24:20.760 --> 0:24:21.280
<v Speaker 4>Is that right?

0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:25.280
<v Speaker 3>Yes, we were looking for phone A phone A.

0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:28.160
<v Speaker 7>The phone that we see throughout the bulk of July

0:24:28.320 --> 0:24:32.680
<v Speaker 7>into early August. Is the IMI that seven eight three

0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:33.800
<v Speaker 7>is connected to?

0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:34.480
<v Speaker 4>Is that right?

0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:35.600
<v Speaker 3>Yes? Correct?

0:24:35.960 --> 0:24:37.000
<v Speaker 4>Was a search for.

0:24:37.000 --> 0:24:41.240
<v Speaker 7>That mobile phone conducted by police on that date to November, Yes,

0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 7>it was.

0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:43.399
<v Speaker 4>Was that phone located?

0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:45.800
<v Speaker 3>No, it's never been located by police.

0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:47.040
<v Speaker 1>We'll be back after this.

0:24:48.160 --> 0:24:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Moving away from the phones, more of this again. Electronic

0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:55.679
<v Speaker 2>related data and evidence that was presented to the jury

0:24:55.760 --> 0:24:59.199
<v Speaker 2>as part of the informant being questioned by the prosecution.

0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:02.520
<v Speaker 1>Was go through a number of computer.

0:25:02.200 --> 0:25:06.679
<v Speaker 2>Records and this particular and other device records where the

0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:10.439
<v Speaker 2>informant was being asked about some URLs which have already

0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:13.359
<v Speaker 2>been shown to the jury, which is a website, Yeah,

0:25:13.400 --> 0:25:16.840
<v Speaker 2>the website addresses, and how he'd gone about sort of

0:25:16.880 --> 0:25:19.520
<v Speaker 2>investigating what those websites were. And the jury was shown

0:25:19.520 --> 0:25:23.800
<v Speaker 2>a series of screenshots for ten different URLs where the

0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:26.880
<v Speaker 2>informant gave evidence that in this situation, this had been

0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:29.840
<v Speaker 2>taken off a portable case that the listeners have heard

0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:32.880
<v Speaker 2>about before, a copy of a device, and he'd copied

0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:36.800
<v Speaker 2>directly that particular website into a browser, each time taking

0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:39.520
<v Speaker 2>a screenshot on his computer now he was taking these screenshots.

0:25:39.560 --> 0:25:42.879
<v Speaker 2>The jury was told in December twenty twenty four a

0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:46.080
<v Speaker 2>lot of the dates that the URLs, the data they

0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:48.160
<v Speaker 2>had that it had been accessed was back in May

0:25:48.240 --> 0:25:51.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty two. So it was explained by the judge

0:25:51.000 --> 0:25:52.640
<v Speaker 2>as well to the jury that there could have been

0:25:52.880 --> 0:25:56.600
<v Speaker 2>potentially changes and updates to these websites since the time

0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:59.480
<v Speaker 2>that they were first accessed, that they were seeing screenshots

0:25:59.480 --> 0:26:03.120
<v Speaker 2>from that twenty four December twenty twenty four time, that

0:26:03.200 --> 0:26:05.359
<v Speaker 2>there was a series of these and they showed a

0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:09.800
<v Speaker 2>number of different screenshots of the I Naturalist website and

0:26:10.160 --> 0:26:13.480
<v Speaker 2>particularly posts or observations around deathcat mushrooms.

0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:17.080
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, the informat was explaining that there was one particular

0:26:17.960 --> 0:26:21.240
<v Speaker 5>sighting that he followed through the records to get to

0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:24.040
<v Speaker 5>and that was a siding at Morabin which we've spoken

0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:26.439
<v Speaker 5>about earlier at Bricker Reserve. It was a gentleman by

0:26:26.440 --> 0:26:29.520
<v Speaker 5>the name of Ivan who had posted this post on

0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:32.600
<v Speaker 5>the our Naturalist website. And the way that they were

0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:35.439
<v Speaker 5>explaining this evidence to the jury was that at the

0:26:35.480 --> 0:26:39.280
<v Speaker 5>same time these II Naturalist websites and this sighting post

0:26:39.400 --> 0:26:42.480
<v Speaker 5>was being accessed, was around about the same time as

0:26:42.520 --> 0:26:47.080
<v Speaker 5>there was evidence on the computer that purchase was being

0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:50.440
<v Speaker 5>made on a different website around about the same time

0:26:50.880 --> 0:26:52.800
<v Speaker 5>from the curR and Barre at Middle Hotel or the

0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:54.959
<v Speaker 5>curR and Barre at Middle Pub And there was a

0:26:55.000 --> 0:26:58.160
<v Speaker 5>receipt that police were able to track down and show

0:26:58.240 --> 0:27:00.720
<v Speaker 5>to the jury that showed that there was an online

0:27:00.840 --> 0:27:04.120
<v Speaker 5>order made for a family dinner around about the same time.

0:27:04.160 --> 0:27:07.280
<v Speaker 5>And they say that that purchase was made using Aaron

0:27:07.359 --> 0:27:10.640
<v Speaker 5>Patterson's credit card details and then that.

0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:12.240
<v Speaker 6>Food was subsequently delivered.

0:27:12.240 --> 0:27:14.520
<v Speaker 5>But Penny and we also heard exactly what was purchased

0:27:14.520 --> 0:27:15.399
<v Speaker 5>in that family dinner.

0:27:15.760 --> 0:27:18.280
<v Speaker 2>Now, the informant went through as part of his evidence

0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:21.040
<v Speaker 2>once it explained the process of accessing these URLs that

0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:24.359
<v Speaker 2>when he was investigating, he had then gone to this

0:27:24.400 --> 0:27:28.600
<v Speaker 2>particular hotel and he'd asked for any transaction sort of

0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:30.719
<v Speaker 2>or orders placed by Aaron Patterson and he had been

0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:33.800
<v Speaker 2>handed essentially a physical receipt that was shown to the

0:27:33.880 --> 0:27:36.160
<v Speaker 2>jury and he took them through what was.

0:27:36.160 --> 0:27:37.920
<v Speaker 1>On this particular receipt.

0:27:37.960 --> 0:27:40.359
<v Speaker 2>Now, what we could see in the courtroom and what

0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:42.800
<v Speaker 2>was read out was it had Erin as the name

0:27:42.840 --> 0:27:45.080
<v Speaker 2>on it and that there was a phone number a

0:27:45.119 --> 0:27:49.040
<v Speaker 2>delivery address and that this transaction had been made around

0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:50.480
<v Speaker 2>seven twenty five pm.

0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:51.080
<v Speaker 1>Now, what was.

0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:54.440
<v Speaker 2>Listed on this particular delivery was a it was called

0:27:54.440 --> 0:27:58.440
<v Speaker 2>a family pack. There was garlic bread listed, two chicken parmesanas,

0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:01.679
<v Speaker 2>a kid's burger, a kid fish coke with no sugar

0:28:01.960 --> 0:28:04.399
<v Speaker 2>for one point two liters, which came to about seventy

0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:07.200
<v Speaker 2>five dollars with delivery just over eighty dollars. And we'll

0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:09.480
<v Speaker 2>hear a little bit more of the evidence of the

0:28:09.520 --> 0:28:13.959
<v Speaker 2>informant now regarding what he said he was able to

0:28:14.000 --> 0:28:17.280
<v Speaker 2>ascertain from looking at these particular payment records and the

0:28:17.320 --> 0:28:18.640
<v Speaker 2>time that they were made.

0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:21.960
<v Speaker 3>So it says this payment was verified with three D

0:28:22.080 --> 0:28:25.800
<v Speaker 3>secure and may be detected from being disputed for fraud,

0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:29.000
<v Speaker 3>and that's on May twenty eight, twenty twenty two, at

0:28:29.040 --> 0:28:32.639
<v Speaker 3>seven twenty five pm. And then it indicates immediately after

0:28:32.680 --> 0:28:35.679
<v Speaker 3>that the payment succeeded, and then there appears to be

0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:39.400
<v Speaker 3>an authentication succeeded and payments started all at seven twenty

0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:41.920
<v Speaker 3>five On May twenty two.

0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:46.320
<v Speaker 5>Eppingstall said that he looked into Aaron Patterson's medical records

0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:49.240
<v Speaker 5>after becoming aware early on in their investigation that she

0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:52.959
<v Speaker 5>had spoken about an alleged cancer diagnosis with her family

0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:55.959
<v Speaker 5>at that particular lunch, and he said what he did

0:28:56.000 --> 0:28:58.160
<v Speaker 5>to investigate that was he first looked at the Victorian

0:28:58.200 --> 0:29:02.280
<v Speaker 5>cancer database, also at her doctor's records, and ultimately he

0:29:02.320 --> 0:29:04.560
<v Speaker 5>said he found that the accused had never been diagnosed

0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:06.840
<v Speaker 5>with cancer at all and there was no records of

0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:08.840
<v Speaker 5>any medical appointments that would.

0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:10.280
<v Speaker 6>Back up that claim.

0:29:10.920 --> 0:29:13.840
<v Speaker 5>It was then the subject of cross examination which we

0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:18.240
<v Speaker 5>heard for the first time for Stephen epping Stall later

0:29:18.320 --> 0:29:22.160
<v Speaker 5>in the day while and truly after lunch, when Colin

0:29:22.240 --> 0:29:24.640
<v Speaker 5>Mandy es SI got on the stand and started asking

0:29:24.720 --> 0:29:28.120
<v Speaker 5>Stephen epping Stall Penny lots more questions about these medical

0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:30.120
<v Speaker 5>records and what police had been able to find.

0:29:30.400 --> 0:29:33.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and the jury had previously heard as part of

0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:35.840
<v Speaker 2>what Stephen Eppingstall was saying to the prosecution that he had,

0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:39.680
<v Speaker 2>again as we've talked about, had search warrants and attained

0:29:39.760 --> 0:29:42.880
<v Speaker 2>the data from different medical facilities and those included three

0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:46.880
<v Speaker 2>particular doctor practices, one being in lin Gatha, one in

0:29:46.920 --> 0:29:49.920
<v Speaker 2>karen Burrough and one in Mount Waverley. And so he'd

0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:53.600
<v Speaker 2>spoken about that previously with the prosecution, but Colin Mandy

0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:56.040
<v Speaker 2>took him through these elements in a little bit more

0:29:56.360 --> 0:30:00.760
<v Speaker 2>detail in relation to different elements of Aaron Patterson's medical history.

0:30:00.800 --> 0:30:03.640
<v Speaker 2>But before he did that, he noted to the detective

0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:06.840
<v Speaker 2>that Aaron Patterson has no criminal history. He agreed, and

0:30:07.600 --> 0:30:09.560
<v Speaker 2>that she had been and that he had said in

0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:12.320
<v Speaker 2>what the jury has been played from the police interview

0:30:12.520 --> 0:30:14.800
<v Speaker 2>that she'd been quite helpful and he agreed with that.

0:30:14.920 --> 0:30:16.640
<v Speaker 6>He agreed again, Yeah, he definitely did.

0:30:16.680 --> 0:30:20.320
<v Speaker 5>And he also agreed that Aaron Patterson had given police

0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:23.160
<v Speaker 5>officers permission to break into her property if they needed

0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:26.360
<v Speaker 5>to in order to find any of the lunch leftovers.

0:30:26.400 --> 0:30:28.480
<v Speaker 5>And then we heard a little bit more about about

0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:29.560
<v Speaker 5>the medical records.

0:30:30.680 --> 0:30:33.400
<v Speaker 6>We heard first off a.

0:30:33.440 --> 0:30:36.200
<v Speaker 5>Little bit from Colin Mandy asking the informant whether or

0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:39.520
<v Speaker 5>not Aaron Patterson's medical records showed that she had raised

0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:42.880
<v Speaker 5>fears that she may have had ovarian cancer with doctors

0:30:42.920 --> 0:30:44.400
<v Speaker 5>as early as October.

0:30:44.040 --> 0:30:44.760
<v Speaker 6>Twenty twenty one.

0:30:44.800 --> 0:30:47.840
<v Speaker 5>Penny, you just mentioned there was three different medical practice

0:30:47.920 --> 0:30:50.960
<v Speaker 5>records that were referred to, but the informant was really

0:30:51.040 --> 0:30:53.960
<v Speaker 5>taken back to October twenty twenty one and was asked

0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:56.600
<v Speaker 5>whether or not he could confirm these medical records that

0:30:56.640 --> 0:30:59.800
<v Speaker 5>were displayed on the screen confirmed that Aaron Patterson had

0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:02.280
<v Speaker 5>fact made queries over whether or not she may have

0:31:02.400 --> 0:31:07.440
<v Speaker 5>ovarian cancer. Then also heart failure, ms, chronic fatigue. These

0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:09.800
<v Speaker 5>types of things were documented in some of these medical

0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:12.920
<v Speaker 5>notes that have been made by made by doctors. And

0:31:13.240 --> 0:31:16.000
<v Speaker 5>there was also some text messages to her estranged husband,

0:31:16.040 --> 0:31:20.280
<v Speaker 5>Simon Patterson that spoke about these same medical concerns around

0:31:20.320 --> 0:31:23.360
<v Speaker 5>about the same time as though the doctors were documenting

0:31:23.400 --> 0:31:24.840
<v Speaker 5>those things in her medical records.

0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:27.000
<v Speaker 2>Now we'll play you a little bit of the evidence

0:31:27.080 --> 0:31:29.840
<v Speaker 2>as the court heard it. This is while the informant

0:31:29.960 --> 0:31:33.000
<v Speaker 2>is being cross examined by the defense by Colin Mandy

0:31:33.240 --> 0:31:37.240
<v Speaker 2>sc and it's in relation to a particular number of

0:31:37.440 --> 0:31:40.840
<v Speaker 2>medical records around changes in Aaron Patterson's health.

0:31:41.240 --> 0:31:44.760
<v Speaker 8>There's a consultation on the twenty first October twenty twenty one.

0:31:45.160 --> 0:31:47.960
<v Speaker 8>Do you see that, Yes, Sir I do with Cassie jw.

0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:51.400
<v Speaker 8>You recognize that name, Yes, Sir I do, and that's

0:31:51.400 --> 0:31:54.520
<v Speaker 8>it Liam Gatha. Yes, And we can see the last

0:31:54.560 --> 0:31:59.120
<v Speaker 8>paragraph says Aaron worries about ovary cancer, has been googling

0:31:59.160 --> 0:32:03.520
<v Speaker 8>her symptoms, think her symptoms may be suggestive of overary cancer.

0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:08.560
<v Speaker 8>And then us which we understand to be ultrasound ovaries

0:32:08.840 --> 0:32:10.280
<v Speaker 8>review in two weeks with results.

0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:11.920
<v Speaker 1>Do you see that, yes, sir?

0:32:12.040 --> 0:32:16.080
<v Speaker 8>And then above that some results received reviewed all fine,

0:32:16.760 --> 0:32:20.959
<v Speaker 8>and then MRI booked in six November. Yes, and ultrasound

0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:24.600
<v Speaker 8>booked in first November, Yes, sir. And you asked some

0:32:24.760 --> 0:32:26.960
<v Speaker 8>questions this morning by miss Warren about whether or not

0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:29.719
<v Speaker 8>there was any record of an MRI, but I think

0:32:29.760 --> 0:32:32.440
<v Speaker 8>the questions were restricted to January to August of twenty

0:32:32.480 --> 0:32:36.080
<v Speaker 8>twenty three. Yes, correct, sir, And then above that a

0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:38.760
<v Speaker 8>further consultation which is on the twenty eighth of October

0:32:39.200 --> 0:32:42.520
<v Speaker 8>at nine thirty three am with Cassie jew And it

0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:46.200
<v Speaker 8>says this is a referral letter to a general physician

0:32:46.320 --> 0:32:50.240
<v Speaker 8>called Dr Ogilby thank you for seeing Aaron, who is

0:32:50.280 --> 0:32:52.960
<v Speaker 8>a mother of two beautiful young kids and lives with

0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:56.680
<v Speaker 8>her husband. Over the past few months, Aaron has experienced

0:32:56.760 --> 0:33:01.920
<v Speaker 8>a series of non specific symptoms including extreme fatigue, lathery.

0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:06.120
<v Speaker 8>I think that should say lethargy, but it says lathery, headache,

0:33:06.360 --> 0:33:12.440
<v Speaker 8>sore and dry eyes, nausea, poor appetite, indigestion, altered bowel habits,

0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:17.800
<v Speaker 8>overactive bladder with urinary incontinence, irregular period, weight gait, probably

0:33:18.080 --> 0:33:21.800
<v Speaker 8>gain pins and needles in her hands and feet, clumsiness

0:33:21.840 --> 0:33:22.200
<v Speaker 8>in feet.

0:33:22.840 --> 0:33:24.240
<v Speaker 3>Is that right, yes, sir.

0:33:25.000 --> 0:33:27.400
<v Speaker 8>Other than that, she has good general health in the past,

0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:30.440
<v Speaker 8>and she is not on any medications. I knew erin

0:33:30.520 --> 0:33:32.560
<v Speaker 8>before as we went to the same church, but I

0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:35.040
<v Speaker 8>only started to see her as a patient which she

0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:38.600
<v Speaker 8>presented to our clinic for the above problems. She looked

0:33:38.720 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 8>very different from what I know of her, as she

0:33:41.280 --> 0:33:43.560
<v Speaker 8>seems to put on a lot of weight and looks

0:33:43.640 --> 0:33:47.520
<v Speaker 8>very swollen in the face, legs, and feet. Other than

0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:52.000
<v Speaker 8>the generalized swelling, her physical examination is unremarkable. I have

0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:57.440
<v Speaker 8>organized some investigations. All other routine tests are normal. And

0:33:57.520 --> 0:34:00.120
<v Speaker 8>that's a letter to doctor Ogilby, who, according to the

0:34:00.160 --> 0:34:03.080
<v Speaker 8>top line, is a general physician. Yes, sir, that's a

0:34:03.160 --> 0:34:04.560
<v Speaker 8>referral letter, yep.

0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:05.480
<v Speaker 5>So.

0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:09.680
<v Speaker 2>As well as these discussions around concerns that Aaron Patterson

0:34:09.920 --> 0:34:13.520
<v Speaker 2>had brought to doctors about symptoms she'd been googling regarding

0:34:13.680 --> 0:34:17.439
<v Speaker 2>ovarian cancer and various other elements, there was also quite

0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.720
<v Speaker 2>a bit of talk around procedures that she'd been booked

0:34:20.760 --> 0:34:23.960
<v Speaker 2>in to undergo, and some of those around sort of

0:34:24.000 --> 0:34:26.440
<v Speaker 2>her heart and other things. And it was while she

0:34:26.600 --> 0:34:29.000
<v Speaker 2>was on a holiday in Tasmania. The jury was told

0:34:29.040 --> 0:34:31.440
<v Speaker 2>that she had this communication back and forth with her

0:34:31.600 --> 0:34:33.040
<v Speaker 2>strange partner, Simon Patterson.

0:34:33.320 --> 0:34:36.080
<v Speaker 5>Yeh was the fourth of the first twenty twenty two

0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:38.920
<v Speaker 5>I've got in my notes here, Penny that there was

0:34:39.000 --> 0:34:42.479
<v Speaker 5>signal messages between these strange couple and in one Aaron

0:34:42.520 --> 0:34:45.680
<v Speaker 5>Patterson had messaged quote, it's my heart that's troubling me.

0:34:45.920 --> 0:34:48.560
<v Speaker 5>Then there was further conversations over the following days as

0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:52.240
<v Speaker 5>well about whether or not she should go public or private,

0:34:52.320 --> 0:34:55.359
<v Speaker 5>and whether or not the cost for private would be more,

0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:57.640
<v Speaker 5>but she wouldn't have to wait with the delays, and

0:34:57.719 --> 0:34:59.440
<v Speaker 5>she also wouldn't then have to go and deal with

0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:04.040
<v Speaker 5>COVID patients going down that particular route as well. There

0:35:04.120 --> 0:35:06.480
<v Speaker 5>was also evidence given from the medical staff and in

0:35:06.560 --> 0:35:10.120
<v Speaker 5>these conversations Aaron Patterson was having with Simon Patterson around

0:35:10.160 --> 0:35:12.880
<v Speaker 5>that time that she'd been googling her symptoms and was

0:35:12.960 --> 0:35:16.040
<v Speaker 5>concerned about her health, and the informant agreed. The informant agreed,

0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:19.160
<v Speaker 5>he said, yes, I agree. This backs up what Colin

0:35:19.239 --> 0:35:21.480
<v Speaker 5>Mandy was saying. It says that Aaron Patterson had been

0:35:21.480 --> 0:35:23.960
<v Speaker 5>googling the symptoms, and he agreed that she'd been concerned

0:35:24.000 --> 0:35:26.000
<v Speaker 5>about her health for this period of time.

0:35:25.960 --> 0:35:27.960
<v Speaker 2>And it was sort of all of this was put

0:35:28.080 --> 0:35:30.160
<v Speaker 2>to the informant as being this was in the brief

0:35:30.200 --> 0:35:33.000
<v Speaker 2>of evidence that you collected, wasn't it? And he did

0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:35.279
<v Speaker 2>agree with most of that. There was a moment where

0:35:35.719 --> 0:35:38.320
<v Speaker 2>it was a little not heated, but there was a

0:35:38.400 --> 0:35:40.800
<v Speaker 2>back and forth for a moment where he was asked

0:35:40.800 --> 0:35:45.319
<v Speaker 2>about some particular medical history regarding her family's medical history

0:35:45.320 --> 0:35:47.560
<v Speaker 2>and their history with cancer. And we'll just play you

0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:49.360
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of what was said there now with

0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Colin Mandy and the informant, do.

0:35:51.200 --> 0:35:55.680
<v Speaker 8>You accept that there is material available to investigators and

0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:59.200
<v Speaker 8>on the brief which demonstrated that in October of twenty

0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:03.759
<v Speaker 8>twenty one, Aaron Patterson was concerned about having ovarian cancer, yes, sir,

0:36:04.280 --> 0:36:08.120
<v Speaker 8>And that she sought medical treatment about that or investigations

0:36:08.400 --> 0:36:11.800
<v Speaker 8>medical investigations about that, yes, sir, yep. And that she

0:36:11.880 --> 0:36:16.000
<v Speaker 8>has a family history of avarian cancer, both paternal and maternal,

0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:19.040
<v Speaker 8>with a daughter who had an ovarian mass that is

0:36:19.080 --> 0:36:19.959
<v Speaker 8>an ovarian syst.

0:36:20.440 --> 0:36:21.920
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's self reported, sir.

0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:24.080
<v Speaker 8>But well, I'm asking you about the records.

0:36:24.520 --> 0:36:26.200
<v Speaker 3>The record says that, and that's what you're.

0:36:26.040 --> 0:36:28.279
<v Speaker 8>Going on, detective, aren't you When you're referring to the

0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:31.800
<v Speaker 8>medical records, you're relying on the accuracy of what's contained

0:36:31.800 --> 0:36:32.239
<v Speaker 8>within them.

0:36:32.880 --> 0:36:35.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what, Yes, We'll be back with more evidence as

0:36:35.800 --> 0:36:36.919
<v Speaker 2>it's presented to the jury.

0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:40.840
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to this episode of Say Grace.

0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Please press the follow button in your app to get

0:36:42.960 --> 0:36:44.960
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0:36:45.480 --> 0:36:47.640
<v Speaker 5>For more reporting on the case, check out the Age

0:36:47.680 --> 0:36:49.640
<v Speaker 5>of nine News in your browser or app store.

0:36:49.800 --> 0:36:52.080
<v Speaker 2>We'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land

0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:55.000
<v Speaker 2>that this podcast was recorded on and wherever you're listening

0:36:55.040 --> 0:36:55.480
<v Speaker 2>to it now.

0:36:55.920 --> 0:36:57.959
<v Speaker 1>Say Grace is created and hosted.

0:36:57.640 --> 0:36:59.959
<v Speaker 6>By me Penelope Lesh and me Erin Peace.

0:37:00.680 --> 0:37:02.919
<v Speaker 1>This podcast is produced by Genevieve Rul.