1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Nine podcasts. 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 2: In this episode, the informant gives evidence about voones police 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 2: say are connected to Aaron Patterson. 4 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: He's also questioned on the. 5 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 2: Accused killer's medical history and evidence of googling cancer symptoms. 6 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 2: The court has also shown her shopping transactions in the 7 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 2: lead up to the fatal lunch. 8 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 3: Victoria's mushroom mystery. 9 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 4: The mushroom lunch that claimed three lives. 10 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 5: An Australian family's meal is now the center of a 11 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 5: homicide investigation. 12 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: The bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines. 13 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 5: Aaron Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch 14 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 5: she'd serve them at her home. 15 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 2: I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this 16 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: level of media and public interest. Four of the guests 17 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 2: of that lunch were much loved members of this church. 18 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: Only one will ever return. 19 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 5: People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people. 20 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 2: Today, Aaron Patterson remained here inside her home. 21 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: She's continued to plead her innocence in a court room 22 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: in Country Victoria. 23 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using death cap 24 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 2: mushrooms to kill. She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three 25 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 2: of her former in laws and attempting to kill a fourth, 26 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 2: the town's church pastor. It's up to the jurors to 27 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 2: decide what happened when Patterson's loved ones sat down to eat. Now, 28 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 2: the jury has been taken through quite a bit of 29 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 2: different topics of evidence with the informant, Detective Stephen epping Stall, 30 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 2: which people will have heard a little bit of in 31 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 2: our last episode talking about the police interview. But we're 32 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 2: going to go through quite a few different elements that 33 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: he's been touching on in his evidence with both the 34 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 2: prosecution and the defense, and we'll take people through that 35 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: in sort of topic order. 36 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, the jury was told Aaron Patterson was charged on 37 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 5: the second of November twenty twenty three. 38 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 6: This was just after a. 39 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 5: Second search warrant was executed on her house. We've heard 40 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 5: during the evidence from Steph eppenste that a first search 41 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 5: warrant was executed on her Lee and Gatha home around 42 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 5: the fifth of August twenty twenty three, and then in 43 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 5: November we heard police returned because they were continuing to 44 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 5: look for more items, so they had more items, more 45 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 5: electronic devices on that search warrant. When they returned a 46 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 5: second time, but then ultimately Aaron Patterson was charged soon 47 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 5: after that second search warrant, and. 48 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 2: We'll touch on some more parts of that search warrant 49 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 2: and various elements around the electronic devices in this episode. 50 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: But what's also been touched on by Steven Eppingstall is 51 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: there's been some CCTV played to the jury from outside 52 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: a subway store in Lee and Gather and the jury 53 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 2: has been told that this was the night following the lunch. 54 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 2: While Aaron Patterson had given it, it's come through in 55 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: other people's evidence that she had been taking her son's 56 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: friend home that night before taking him to the subway, 57 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 2: and Stephen Eppingstall mentioned in his evidence that you could 58 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: see her son walking in and then back out and waiting, 59 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 2: and it was said to him by the prosecution there's 60 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 2: a missing eleven minutes where the car the red card 61 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: is appears before it comes back. When he was asked 62 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 2: about that, Stephen Apingstall said, yes, we weren't able to 63 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,119 Speaker 2: track where the car went in that time. We'd gone 64 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 2: and collected this CCTV, but we weren't able to see 65 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 2: where it went. And the prosecution touched on the fact 66 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: that another witness, a child protection worker, had said Aaron 67 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: Patterson told her that that night she'd also gone to Woolworth's. 68 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: But Stephen Eppingstall, as he said in his evidence, they 69 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 2: weren't able to verify exactly where the car went over 70 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: those eleven minutes. There was another element that was also 71 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: clarified by the detective. He was asked about the video 72 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 2: statement that Aaron Patterson's daughter made. Now, initially he confirmed 73 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: that yes, in that what the jury has seen, this 74 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: pre recorded bit of evidence, that girl had said no 75 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: when she was asked if she'd ever been to an 76 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: Asian grocery store with her mum. But he then clarified 77 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: that there was a change to what she had said 78 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: sort of closer to the trial. 79 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 5: And on the eve of the trial, Penny, we were 80 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 5: told that the child was asked to review her video statement, 81 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 5: a video recorded statement, and in fact that she said 82 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 5: no when talking to that support worker the scene and 83 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 5: time just before the trial. She did have a memory 84 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 5: of attending it Asian food shop with her mother for 85 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 5: cooking reasons. 86 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so when we're talking about these shops, there's 87 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: been a number of other shopping elements brought up throughout 88 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 2: Stephen Eppingstall's evidence, and we're going to go through that 89 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: sort of as one topic as the jury heard it 90 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: really at this stage. So he was taken by the 91 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 2: prosecution through Aaron Patterson's visits to Woolworth's in. 92 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: Lee and Gatha. 93 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 2: Now the jury has heard that Aaron Patterson through other 94 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: people's evidence. They've recalled her telling them that she purchased 95 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 2: the majority of the ingredients for this lunch from that 96 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: local Woolworths prior to the. 97 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: Lunch on the twenty ninth of July. 98 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 2: And Steven Eppingstall gave evidence that he then reviewed transactions 99 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: from Aaron Patterson between the twenty third and twenty eighth 100 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 2: of July, and that he did that through looking at 101 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 2: her Woolworth's rewards card. And there was a bit of 102 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 2: an explanation about that. 103 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 5: Yeah, he was explaining that that was a way that 104 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 5: they could see the list of the exact items that 105 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 5: had been purchased. Now this was a self serve checkout 106 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 5: on all occasions, he was explaining to the jury. And 107 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 5: then he was asked to read through the items that 108 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 5: were on the list for each of those shopping visits. 109 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 5: And we heard that Aaron Patterson was allegedly purchasing lots 110 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 5: of pastry, different types of pastry, puff pastry and frozen 111 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 5: feelings pastry. 112 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 6: We also heard that. 113 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 5: There was a number of different packets of fresh mushrooms 114 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 5: on those consecutive days that had been purchased. We also 115 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 5: heard that there was mashed potato, There was beans and 116 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 5: also onions, yeah, and beef. 117 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: Steaks or were listed in those transactions as well. Now, 118 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 2: to put a sort of a bit of a visual 119 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 2: element to it for the jury, this was a huge 120 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 2: amount of information in columns and all written down as 121 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 2: different transactions over different days of this week, but the 122 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: areas that the jury attention was being brought to and 123 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: the detective as part of his evidence were highlighted in 124 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: yellow particular items. So, like you mentioned, there was mushrooms 125 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 2: sliced and there'd be sort of two in one transaction 126 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: and then two there was two in another as well 127 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: as well as these sort of five different pieces of 128 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 2: beef over a couple of days. And as the detective 129 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 2: went through all of this evidence, there was a moment 130 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 2: where he was asked about what one of the columns meant, 131 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 2: and as he got to that, there was actually an 132 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 2: interruption from the jury when he said, oh, I don't 133 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 2: actually I'm not quite sure what that is for. 134 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 6: The fellow column. 135 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: And as he was asked by Jane Warren for the 136 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: prosecution and what's that particular column there, someone from the 137 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: jury said I know. 138 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: When he said that he didn't. 139 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 5: There was a lot of laughter in the courtroom at 140 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 5: that stage. The Jura looked quite embarrassed and actually put 141 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 5: her hand to her mouth almost to stop herself talking, 142 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 5: because she realized in that moment she probably shouldn't have 143 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 5: been interrupting what was going on with the evidence. The 144 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 5: judge then interjected quite quickly and also had a bit 145 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 5: of a chuckle, but said to this particular Dura, I 146 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 5: think it's best if you save those conversations for the 147 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 5: jury room and not bring it up here in the courtroom. 148 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 5: So we are listening to some quite serious evidence, but 149 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 5: we have had a few of these lighthearted moments, and 150 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 5: this was one where there was quite a roar of laughter. 151 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 5: I think nearly everybody in the room had a bit 152 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 5: of a chuckle. Then when this particular europe Yeah put 153 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 5: her hand up and said I think I can answer that, 154 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 5: your honor, and they quickly moved on to more more 155 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 5: about the grocery shopping list, and the informant really went 156 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 5: through and listed each each of those. 157 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 6: I've got here in my notes that. 158 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 5: On Sunday, the twenty third of July, for example, one 159 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 5: of some of the items purchased there was two different 160 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 5: lots of sliced mushrooms at five hundred grams a kilogram 161 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 5: of puff pastry, three hundred and seventy five grams of 162 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 5: Philo pastry onions of the French Chalotte version, and then 163 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 5: similar other purchases that happened on also on the twenty 164 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 5: seventh and twenty eighth of July. We know the lunch 165 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 5: was on the twenty ninth of July twenty twenty three. 166 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 5: So we heard a lot about that shopping list or 167 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 5: the list of items that had been purchased during those 168 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 5: particular days, and that evidence went on for quite a while. 169 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and moving to sort of the next part of 170 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 2: the evidence that this detective was taken through again sort 171 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 2: of in the vein of shopping this was banked transactions 172 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 2: from a Bendigo bank account. Now he was taken through 173 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 2: the details of that, saying that sort of was Aaron 174 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: Patterson's or at least a bank account attached to her. 175 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: We could see and what was being shown on the screen. 176 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: A lot of the particulars were sort of taken out 177 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 2: on what was being shown to the courtroom, but you 178 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: could see her name, Aaron Trudy Patterson listed on there. 179 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: And there were three specific transactions that the detective and 180 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 2: the jury were taken through. The first, as it came 181 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 2: up though it is the last in date, was a 182 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: transaction for what was described as the Coon Warrior tip 183 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 2: or it is the sort of the waste transfer station, 184 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 2: and that was on the second of August around sort 185 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: of eleven forty am in the morning around that time. 186 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: Then the two. 187 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: Others that were touched on were a transaction for a 188 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 2: service station, a BP service station, a colder mead. Now 189 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 2: that was on the thirtieth of July, the day after 190 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 2: the lunch. 191 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, that receipt was played on the screen as well 192 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 5: for the jury as the informt was asked to confirm 193 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 5: these exhibits essentially, and then they were logged for the 194 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 5: jury so they can read them later on on their 195 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 5: iPads if they wish. Even the types of food that 196 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 5: were purchased at that particular occasion. It was a ham, 197 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 5: cheese and tomato sandwich, it was a chili chicken rap 198 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 5: and there was also something called a blister pack and 199 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 5: the informant was asked if he knew what that was 200 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 5: and he said he thought it was gum and there 201 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 5: was some more giggles around that, but we even got 202 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 5: the dollar amounts and things like that before he went 203 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 5: into the third transaction. 204 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so that particular receipt that you're talking about there, 205 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 2: that was the physical receipt that the detective gave evidence 206 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: had sort of been sort of recovered from the service 207 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 2: station alongside these actual bank records, and it was mentioned 208 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: to the jury as part of this evidence that they 209 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: had seen CCTV of this particular. 210 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: Visit on the thirtieth. 211 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: But then they were also shown a transaction in that 212 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: bank account for it was that Cooi Rup which is 213 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 2: again in the Gippsland area, and the jury had heard 214 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 2: from the prosecutor as part of this she said, now 215 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 2: there was a mention in the Sun's evidence that there'd 216 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 2: been a stop on that particular day when they were 217 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 2: traveling through the area basically what was a donut van 218 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: and that came up with a donut van sort of 219 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,359 Speaker 2: name as part of that transaction. And then that particular 220 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 2: amount there for about sort of thirteen dollars ten I 221 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 2: think it was, and it was mentioned to the jury 222 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 2: by the prosecutor. Remember we've heard this evidence before and 223 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: that there was three dim sims, a hot dog and 224 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 2: a coffee purchased as part of that transaction. 225 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. 226 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 5: What an informant is called to give evidence in a 227 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 5: trial such as this, they're essentially being asked and this 228 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,839 Speaker 5: we saw this today to confirm. These are the things 229 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 5: that you've got sort of going from A to Z 230 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 5: of all the documents and all the evidence you've collected 231 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 5: along the way. So they moved through topics pretty quickly. 232 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 5: Some of them they spend a little bit more time 233 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 5: on today. But after we went through the bank transaction records, 234 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 5: which was only a couple of minutes that were spoken about, 235 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 5: they quickly moved to the next topic, Penny, and that 236 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 5: was to do with Gaiel Patterson's diary. 237 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 238 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 2: So Gaiel Patterson's diary was entered into evidence, and this 239 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: was a hand sort of written diary, the sort of 240 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: diary that you would make appointments for for your week. 241 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 6: It was a week view by the Monday Boy to Sunday. 242 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was taken through quite a few different 243 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 2: dates across varying time frames in twenty twenty three. But 244 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 2: some of the entries that were in that the jury 245 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 2: was sort of taken through and the detective was asked 246 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: to read these out and you'll hear a little bit 247 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 2: of that evidence in a moment. But on the twenty 248 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: eighth of June, which was a Wednesday, there was some 249 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: handwritten cursive there that said Erin Saint Vincent's arm lump. 250 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 2: And then on the twenty ninth of July lunch at 251 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: Erin's with Heather and Ian, and then the detective was 252 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: asked whether he had, through some of his investigation, checked 253 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson's medical records, and he gave evidence that yes, 254 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 2: he had checked her medical records, particularly for the time 255 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 2: of January twenty twenty three through to around this time 256 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 2: of the lunch and just after in August as well. 257 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 2: He was asked whether Aaron Patterson had intended Saint Vincent's 258 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 2: hospital on the twenty eighth of June or if there 259 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 2: was a medical appointment through her Medicare history and other 260 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 2: things he was looking at for that date, as mentioned 261 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 2: in the diary, and he said no, there were no 262 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: records that he'd been able to find, and that when 263 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 2: he checked with the hospital and his team contacted them, 264 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 2: they weren't able to confirm that there had been a 265 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 2: visit there either, and that's where the jury was then 266 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 2: moved on to another element of evidence connected to Gail Patterson, 267 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: that being Gail Patterson's mobile phone. 268 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 5: So there was also text messages around this time that 269 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 5: the informant was taken to between who the prosecutions say 270 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 5: is Aaron Patterson and Gail Patterson. And in these conversations 271 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 5: which will now take you through, they were speaking about 272 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 5: these medical appointments and how Aaron Patterson was going. 273 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: A message was read to the jury. 274 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: They were told this was sent on the twenty eighth 275 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 2: of June, round seven thirty pm from Gayle's phone saying, Hi, erin, 276 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: just wondering how you got on with your appointment today, 277 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: Love Gail and don Now here's a little bit of 278 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 2: what the jury heard from Stephen Eppingstall while he was 279 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: giving his evidence with Jane Warren from the prosecution. 280 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 7: It's voiced by actors twenty nine June twenty twenty three, 281 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 7: eleven fifty two am. Read out that text please yep. 282 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 3: Hi, Gail. Sorry, I had taken my daughter to see 283 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 3: a movie last night. We saw The Little Mermaid. The 284 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 3: appointment went okay, thanks for asking. I had a needle 285 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 3: biopsy taken of the lump and I'm returning for an 286 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 3: MRI next week and we'll know more after the results 287 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 3: of those two things. 288 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 7: Did you find any evidence in the accused medical records 289 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 7: of her having had a needle biopsy of a lump? 290 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 3: No? 291 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 7: Did you find any evidence in the accused medical records 292 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 7: of her being referred for or scheduled or having an MRI? 293 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 3: No? 294 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 7: Then if we look please there's a response there from 295 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 7: Gail to Aaron Patterson twenty ninth of June twenty twenty 296 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 7: three at six twenty six pm. 297 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 4: Yes, correct, and just read that out please yep. 298 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 3: That's a test of patience, isn't it. Praying you'll know 299 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 3: God's peace. We're just ready to relax. Nice to have 300 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:57,839 Speaker 3: the fire warming us in this cold weather. 301 00:13:58,360 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 6: XO. 302 00:13:59,080 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 4: Okay. 303 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 7: If we go to the message above, that's number nine 304 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 7: timestamp six July twenty twenty three at eight fifteen pm. 305 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 7: This is from Gail Patterson to Aaron Patterson. 306 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 3: Yes correct? 307 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 4: Could you read that out please? 308 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 3: Hi Erin, How did you get on yesterday with your 309 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 3: medical test? Love Don and Gail? 310 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 7: And then the final message timestamp seven July twenty twenty three, 311 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 7: six forty six pm. This is from Aaron Patterson to 312 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 7: Gail Patterson. Yes correct, read that out please? 313 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 3: Thanks for your message, Don and Gail. There's a bit 314 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 3: to digest with everything that's come out of it all. 315 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 3: I might talk more about it with you when I 316 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 3: see you in person, Love Erin. 317 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 7: Okay, did you find in the medical records you reviewed 318 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 7: any medical appointments for the accused on six July twenty 319 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 7: twenty three. 320 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: No, there was quite a bit of different evidence given 321 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 2: today around different electronic devices, but particularly mobile phones. And 322 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: we'll try in the most succinct way we can to 323 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 2: talk about this evidence that was presented to the jury 324 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 2: through the informant when it came to mobile phones that 325 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: had been seized by his team with the homicide squad 326 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: as part of the search warrants that we've heard about. 327 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, there was four different phones that were mentioned today, 328 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 5: Penny and two sim cards, and essentially the prosecution alleged 329 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 5: that Aaron Patterson moved these two SIM cards across the 330 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 5: multiple phones that she had in her possession in the 331 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 5: months leading up to and shortly after the time of 332 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 5: the fatal lunch. And it was those particular electronic devices. 333 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 5: And we heard a lot about imy numbers and SIM 334 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 5: card numbers and phone numbers and all of these types 335 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 5: of things. But to try and just simplify it all, 336 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 5: there was four phones referred to an evidence. One was 337 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 5: called the A twenty three phone, one was called Phone 338 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 5: A third was called Phone B, and the fourth was 339 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 5: called the Nokia smartphone. 340 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 7: Now. 341 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 6: The first three were all. 342 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 5: Samsung Galaxy type phones, and then the Nokia smartphone was 343 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 5: the one at the end. The way that the evidence 344 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 5: was explained to the jury was that the first mobile 345 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 5: phone A twenty three now that was found in a 346 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 5: cupboard in the bedroom of the accused teenage son during 347 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 5: the first search warrant in August twenty twenty three. It's 348 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 5: on that particular phone that the informants said that police 349 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 5: found communications the day alleged was between Aaron Patterson and 350 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 5: some Facebook friends. It had occurred months earlier in December 351 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 5: twenty twenty two, and that's where she'd spoken about smashing 352 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 5: her phone screen while on holiday to New Zealand and 353 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 5: then having to go and purchase another one of the 354 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 5: Samsung phones. 355 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll give you a little bit of the evidence 356 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: as the jury heard it. 357 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 2: This was given by Steven Eppingstall and Jane Warren from 358 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: the prosecution as part of this questioning, and they're reading 359 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: out Facebook messages and the times and dates associated with those. 360 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 3: The next message is at ten oh six pm from 361 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 3: Erin and it reads, anyway, I've been googling everything trying 362 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 3: to get into my phone and emails and just couldn't. 363 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 3: But then someone suggested I could do a hard reboot 364 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 3: of my phone and restart it in safe mode and 365 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 3: it might fix the frozen screen issue. And it worked 366 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 3: for now, but the screen is broken and might freeze 367 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 3: again at any second. So now that I am in, 368 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 3: I am copying down everything I need from it. Loll and. 369 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 3: Jenny Hay responds on seventeen December twenty twenty two at 370 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 3: ten ten pm. Or how stressful, Erin. Maybe you can 371 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 3: get the screen fixed in enz if they can do 372 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 3: it quickly. Erin responds two minutes later at ten twelve 373 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 3: pm yeah, I'm going to see if I can tomorrow. 374 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 3: It makes me realize how ridiculous it is that having 375 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 3: a broken phone makes everything so difficult. I can't get 376 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 3: into my banking on my laptop because it sends an 377 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 3: authorization SMS to my phone, et cetera, et cetera. Like 378 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 3: how dumb am I to make everything dependent on a 379 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 3: single bloody device? 380 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 4: And then next page, please yep. 381 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 3: So this is a message from Erin on nineteen December 382 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 3: twenty twenty two at five eighteen pm, and it reads 383 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 3: I had to buy a new phone today because I 384 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 3: couldn't get the other one unfixed IDK, which is I 385 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 3: don't know why, but setting up a new phone is 386 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 3: incredibly stressful for me. 387 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 4: And then final paid please yep. 388 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 3: And again this is a message from Erin on nineteen 389 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 3: December twenty twenty two. This one's at ten fifty eight pm. 390 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 3: I got a Samsung Galaxy A twenty three, the cheapest 391 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 3: I could get while not being an absolute piece of 392 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 3: shit phone. It was still four hundred dollars though emoji emoji. 393 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 6: We then heard evidence about Phone B. 394 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 5: Now this is the handset that the informant said the 395 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 5: accused had physically handed police during that first search warrant 396 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 5: in August twenty twenty three, and we saw some footage 397 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 5: and some still images of that happening of Aaron Patterson 398 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 5: handing that phone over to Luke Farrell who was working 399 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 5: as part of the homicide squad team on that day, 400 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 5: and it appeared to show a mobile phone that was 401 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,719 Speaker 5: housed in an orange or red type phone case. And 402 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,880 Speaker 5: as I said, that was played to the court, Eppingstall 403 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 5: said it was this phone that was connected to a 404 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 5: handset for the first time on the eleventh of July 405 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 5: twenty twenty three, because earlier, he was explaining, it had 406 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 5: only been seen to be used in a Samsung tablet 407 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 5: device before then being placed in phone B he set 408 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 5: around August three, twenty twenty three, about five days after 409 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 5: the lunch. 410 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 2: And before Stephen Eppingstall explained this particular element regarding the 411 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 2: tablet and the phone in his evidence and what he 412 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 2: says that evidence showed when the jury was shown this 413 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 2: steal image that had come from a video of the 414 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 2: handover of the phone with Luke Farrell, and it appeared 415 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 2: to be in a ready orange colored case. 416 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: They were also. 417 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 2: Shown prior to that another steal image from CCTV from 418 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 2: they were told Lee and Gatha Hospital, and they were 419 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 2: told that that was from the thirty first of July, 420 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 2: so two days after the lunch before this search warrant occurred. 421 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 2: And in that image as they zoomed in, it was 422 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 2: described by the prosecution and the detective. 423 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: Agreed with this that had appeared. 424 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 2: The phone in that image was in a pink case 425 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 2: when the image with Luke Farrell was shown, and that 426 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 2: the prosecutor noted in front of the jury, We'll leave 427 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 2: it up to the jury to decide what color that 428 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 2: phone is. But going to that evidence that you were 429 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 2: just mentioning regarding what Stephen Eppingstall said he was able 430 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 2: to ascertain from some records regarding this particular phone number 431 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 2: and SIM and the device as it was connected to. 432 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: Here's a little bit of what he said to the 433 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: court about that element of the investigation. 434 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 4: At eighteen oh three or six p oh three pm. 435 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 7: If we go across that far right hand column, what 436 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 7: happens there? 437 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 4: What do we see happen there? 438 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 3: So we see that the IMI has changed and what 439 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 3: that indicates is that the simcard for the eight three 440 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 3: five number has been removed from the tablet device that 441 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 3: it was in and it's been placed into a new device, 442 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 3: and it's really easy for us to identify those devices. 443 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 3: All we have to do is take that IMEI number, 444 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 3: plug it into a publicly available website and it will 445 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 3: identify the exact device that is. 446 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 7: Okay, and that device for imy ending two seven six 447 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 7: y two. 448 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 4: What device was that? 449 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 3: That's a Samsung Galaxy, Samsung Galaxy A twenty three mobile phone. 450 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 7: And did you identify that as ultimately the mobile phone 451 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 7: that miss Patterson handed to Detective Senior Sergeant Luke Farrell 452 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 7: on five August. 453 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's Phone B as we've been referring to 454 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 3: it throughout this. 455 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 7: Matter, Okay, and that phone is the same phone that 456 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 7: we have the records for which show several factory resets 457 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 7: occurred in August early August. 458 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 3: Yes, correct. 459 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 5: Eppingstall went further than to explain that as they looked 460 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 5: at the different records and the data that they could find, 461 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 5: explaining that every phone or device has a serial number 462 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 5: and IMI number, he said, what it indicated was during 463 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 5: that time of the police search of the house, the 464 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 5: first search, one of those two simcards was moved from 465 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 5: one of those Samsung devices into a Nokia smartphone. 466 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 7: Detective, there is some orange highlighting this time, yes, ma'am. 467 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 4: And the first row of. 468 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 7: Orange highlighting appears in five August twenty twenty three. 469 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 4: At one five pm. 470 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 3: Yes, correct. 471 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 4: Where were you at that time? 472 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 3: I was at Miss Patterson's house conducting the search warrant. 473 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 7: Okay, can you tell us what this record indicates occurs 474 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 7: in relation to the phone. 475 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, So if you look over at so it's one 476 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 3: forty five pm on five August twenty twenty three, and 477 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 3: what we see if we look at the right hand column, 478 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 3: we see the actual SIM card change from Phone A 479 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 3: into a different phone, A phone with an IMY ending 480 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 3: four eight nine eight. 481 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 7: Okay again, did you check that IMI to find out 482 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 7: what that device was? 483 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a Nokia mobile phone, a smartphone, Yes, yes, ma'am. 484 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 7: And we heard evidence from doctor Currell that there can 485 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 7: sometimes be anomalies in the records when a SIM card 486 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 7: changes over and an existing data session ends. 487 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 3: Yes. Correct. 488 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 5: Then he explained that they were then beginning to search 489 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 5: for this phone A. And this phone A was the 490 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 5: one that was in the pink case that you just mentioned, Penny, 491 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 5: another Samsung device, but it was his phone A that 492 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 5: saw police return to Aaron Patterson's home on the second 493 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 5: of November twenty twenty three. This is the second search warrant, 494 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 5: and epping Stall explained that on that warrant they have 495 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 5: to explain the reasons for why they're attending the property 496 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,479 Speaker 5: and it was a further search for electronic devices. And 497 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 5: he explained to the jury that they returned home, returned 498 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 5: to that home really specifically looking for Phone A and 499 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 5: it's never been located by police. 500 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 2: Here's a little bit of that evidence. As Steven Eppingstall 501 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 2: said it to the jury. It's not his real voice. 502 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 7: We've obviously discussed and heard evidence that Phone B, which 503 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 7: is the phone that was handed over to Detective Sergeant Farrell, 504 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 7: was the phone that was received on five August yep 505 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 7: on to November twenty twenty three. Did police execute a 506 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 7: further search warrant at the accused home address? Yes, we 507 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 7: did miss Patisona's home at that time. 508 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 4: Is that right? 509 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 7: Yes, she was, And the terms of that warrant was 510 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 7: to search for several items, including specifically a Samsung Galaxy 511 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 7: A twenty three phone IMY ending one three seven nine. 512 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 4: Is that right? 513 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 3: Yes, we were looking for phone A phone A. 514 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 7: The phone that we see throughout the bulk of July 515 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 7: into early August. Is the IMI that seven eight three 516 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 7: is connected to? 517 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 4: Is that right? 518 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 3: Yes? Correct? 519 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 4: Was a search for. 520 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 7: That mobile phone conducted by police on that date to November, Yes, 521 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 7: it was. 522 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 4: Was that phone located? 523 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 3: No, it's never been located by police. 524 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: We'll be back after this. 525 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 2: Moving away from the phones, more of this again. Electronic 526 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 2: related data and evidence that was presented to the jury 527 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 2: as part of the informant being questioned by the prosecution. 528 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: Was go through a number of computer. 529 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 2: Records and this particular and other device records where the 530 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 2: informant was being asked about some URLs which have already 531 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 2: been shown to the jury, which is a website, Yeah, 532 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 2: the website addresses, and how he'd gone about sort of 533 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 2: investigating what those websites were. And the jury was shown 534 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 2: a series of screenshots for ten different URLs where the 535 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 2: informant gave evidence that in this situation, this had been 536 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 2: taken off a portable case that the listeners have heard 537 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 2: about before, a copy of a device, and he'd copied 538 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 2: directly that particular website into a browser, each time taking 539 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 2: a screenshot on his computer now he was taking these screenshots. 540 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 2: The jury was told in December twenty twenty four a 541 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 2: lot of the dates that the URLs, the data they 542 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 2: had that it had been accessed was back in May 543 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two. So it was explained by the judge 544 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 2: as well to the jury that there could have been 545 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 2: potentially changes and updates to these websites since the time 546 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 2: that they were first accessed, that they were seeing screenshots 547 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 2: from that twenty four December twenty twenty four time, that 548 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 2: there was a series of these and they showed a 549 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 2: number of different screenshots of the I Naturalist website and 550 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 2: particularly posts or observations around deathcat mushrooms. 551 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, the informat was explaining that there was one particular 552 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 5: sighting that he followed through the records to get to 553 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 5: and that was a siding at Morabin which we've spoken 554 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 5: about earlier at Bricker Reserve. It was a gentleman by 555 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 5: the name of Ivan who had posted this post on 556 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 5: the our Naturalist website. And the way that they were 557 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 5: explaining this evidence to the jury was that at the 558 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 5: same time these II Naturalist websites and this sighting post 559 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 5: was being accessed, was around about the same time as 560 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 5: there was evidence on the computer that purchase was being 561 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 5: made on a different website around about the same time 562 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 5: from the curR and Barre at Middle Hotel or the 563 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,959 Speaker 5: curR and Barre at Middle Pub And there was a 564 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 5: receipt that police were able to track down and show 565 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 5: to the jury that showed that there was an online 566 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 5: order made for a family dinner around about the same time. 567 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 5: And they say that that purchase was made using Aaron 568 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 5: Patterson's credit card details and then that. 569 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 6: Food was subsequently delivered. 570 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 5: But Penny and we also heard exactly what was purchased 571 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 5: in that family dinner. 572 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 2: Now, the informant went through as part of his evidence 573 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 2: once it explained the process of accessing these URLs that 574 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 2: when he was investigating, he had then gone to this 575 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 2: particular hotel and he'd asked for any transaction sort of 576 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,719 Speaker 2: or orders placed by Aaron Patterson and he had been 577 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 2: handed essentially a physical receipt that was shown to the 578 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 2: jury and he took them through what was. 579 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: On this particular receipt. 580 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 2: Now, what we could see in the courtroom and what 581 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 2: was read out was it had Erin as the name 582 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 2: on it and that there was a phone number a 583 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 2: delivery address and that this transaction had been made around 584 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 2: seven twenty five pm. 585 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: Now, what was. 586 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 2: Listed on this particular delivery was a it was called 587 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 2: a family pack. There was garlic bread listed, two chicken parmesanas, 588 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 2: a kid's burger, a kid fish coke with no sugar 589 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 2: for one point two liters, which came to about seventy 590 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 2: five dollars with delivery just over eighty dollars. And we'll 591 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 2: hear a little bit more of the evidence of the 592 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,959 Speaker 2: informant now regarding what he said he was able to 593 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 2: ascertain from looking at these particular payment records and the 594 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 2: time that they were made. 595 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 3: So it says this payment was verified with three D 596 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 3: secure and may be detected from being disputed for fraud, 597 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 3: and that's on May twenty eight, twenty twenty two, at 598 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 3: seven twenty five pm. And then it indicates immediately after 599 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 3: that the payment succeeded, and then there appears to be 600 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 3: an authentication succeeded and payments started all at seven twenty 601 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 3: five On May twenty two. 602 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 5: Eppingstall said that he looked into Aaron Patterson's medical records 603 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 5: after becoming aware early on in their investigation that she 604 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,959 Speaker 5: had spoken about an alleged cancer diagnosis with her family 605 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,959 Speaker 5: at that particular lunch, and he said what he did 606 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 5: to investigate that was he first looked at the Victorian 607 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 5: cancer database, also at her doctor's records, and ultimately he 608 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 5: said he found that the accused had never been diagnosed 609 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 5: with cancer at all and there was no records of 610 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 5: any medical appointments that would. 611 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 6: Back up that claim. 612 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 5: It was then the subject of cross examination which we 613 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 5: heard for the first time for Stephen epping Stall later 614 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 5: in the day while and truly after lunch, when Colin 615 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 5: Mandy es SI got on the stand and started asking 616 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 5: Stephen epping Stall Penny lots more questions about these medical 617 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 5: records and what police had been able to find. 618 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the jury had previously heard as part of 619 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 2: what Stephen Eppingstall was saying to the prosecution that he had, 620 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 2: again as we've talked about, had search warrants and attained 621 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 2: the data from different medical facilities and those included three 622 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 2: particular doctor practices, one being in lin Gatha, one in 623 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 2: karen Burrough and one in Mount Waverley. And so he'd 624 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 2: spoken about that previously with the prosecution, but Colin Mandy 625 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 2: took him through these elements in a little bit more 626 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 2: detail in relation to different elements of Aaron Patterson's medical history. 627 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 2: But before he did that, he noted to the detective 628 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 2: that Aaron Patterson has no criminal history. He agreed, and 629 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 2: that she had been and that he had said in 630 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 2: what the jury has been played from the police interview 631 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 2: that she'd been quite helpful and he agreed with that. 632 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 6: He agreed again, Yeah, he definitely did. 633 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 5: And he also agreed that Aaron Patterson had given police 634 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 5: officers permission to break into her property if they needed 635 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 5: to in order to find any of the lunch leftovers. 636 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 5: And then we heard a little bit more about about 637 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 5: the medical records. 638 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 6: We heard first off a. 639 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 5: Little bit from Colin Mandy asking the informant whether or 640 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 5: not Aaron Patterson's medical records showed that she had raised 641 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 5: fears that she may have had ovarian cancer with doctors 642 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 5: as early as October. 643 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 6: Twenty twenty one. 644 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 5: Penny, you just mentioned there was three different medical practice 645 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 5: records that were referred to, but the informant was really 646 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 5: taken back to October twenty twenty one and was asked 647 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 5: whether or not he could confirm these medical records that 648 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 5: were displayed on the screen confirmed that Aaron Patterson had 649 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 5: fact made queries over whether or not she may have 650 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 5: ovarian cancer. Then also heart failure, ms, chronic fatigue. These 651 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 5: types of things were documented in some of these medical 652 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 5: notes that have been made by made by doctors. And 653 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 5: there was also some text messages to her estranged husband, 654 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 5: Simon Patterson that spoke about these same medical concerns around 655 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 5: about the same time as though the doctors were documenting 656 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 5: those things in her medical records. 657 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 2: Now we'll play you a little bit of the evidence 658 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 2: as the court heard it. This is while the informant 659 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 2: is being cross examined by the defense by Colin Mandy 660 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 2: sc and it's in relation to a particular number of 661 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 2: medical records around changes in Aaron Patterson's health. 662 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 8: There's a consultation on the twenty first October twenty twenty one. 663 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 8: Do you see that, Yes, Sir I do with Cassie jw. 664 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 8: You recognize that name, Yes, Sir I do, and that's 665 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 8: it Liam Gatha. Yes, And we can see the last 666 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 8: paragraph says Aaron worries about ovary cancer, has been googling 667 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 8: her symptoms, think her symptoms may be suggestive of overary cancer. 668 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 8: And then us which we understand to be ultrasound ovaries 669 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 8: review in two weeks with results. 670 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: Do you see that, yes, sir? 671 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 8: And then above that some results received reviewed all fine, 672 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,959 Speaker 8: and then MRI booked in six November. Yes, and ultrasound 673 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 8: booked in first November, Yes, sir. And you asked some 674 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 8: questions this morning by miss Warren about whether or not 675 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,719 Speaker 8: there was any record of an MRI, but I think 676 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 8: the questions were restricted to January to August of twenty 677 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 8: twenty three. Yes, correct, sir, And then above that a 678 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 8: further consultation which is on the twenty eighth of October 679 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 8: at nine thirty three am with Cassie jew And it 680 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 8: says this is a referral letter to a general physician 681 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 8: called Dr Ogilby thank you for seeing Aaron, who is 682 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 8: a mother of two beautiful young kids and lives with 683 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 8: her husband. Over the past few months, Aaron has experienced 684 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 8: a series of non specific symptoms including extreme fatigue, lathery. 685 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 8: I think that should say lethargy, but it says lathery, headache, 686 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 8: sore and dry eyes, nausea, poor appetite, indigestion, altered bowel habits, 687 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 8: overactive bladder with urinary incontinence, irregular period, weight gait, probably 688 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 8: gain pins and needles in her hands and feet, clumsiness 689 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 8: in feet. 690 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 3: Is that right, yes, sir. 691 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 8: Other than that, she has good general health in the past, 692 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 8: and she is not on any medications. I knew erin 693 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 8: before as we went to the same church, but I 694 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 8: only started to see her as a patient which she 695 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 8: presented to our clinic for the above problems. She looked 696 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 8: very different from what I know of her, as she 697 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 8: seems to put on a lot of weight and looks 698 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 8: very swollen in the face, legs, and feet. Other than 699 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 8: the generalized swelling, her physical examination is unremarkable. I have 700 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 8: organized some investigations. All other routine tests are normal. And 701 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 8: that's a letter to doctor Ogilby, who, according to the 702 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 8: top line, is a general physician. Yes, sir, that's a 703 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 8: referral letter, yep. 704 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 5: So. 705 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 2: As well as these discussions around concerns that Aaron Patterson 706 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 2: had brought to doctors about symptoms she'd been googling regarding 707 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,439 Speaker 2: ovarian cancer and various other elements, there was also quite 708 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 2: a bit of talk around procedures that she'd been booked 709 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 2: in to undergo, and some of those around sort of 710 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 2: her heart and other things. And it was while she 711 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 2: was on a holiday in Tasmania. The jury was told 712 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 2: that she had this communication back and forth with her 713 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 2: strange partner, Simon Patterson. 714 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 5: Yeh was the fourth of the first twenty twenty two 715 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 5: I've got in my notes here, Penny that there was 716 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,479 Speaker 5: signal messages between these strange couple and in one Aaron 717 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 5: Patterson had messaged quote, it's my heart that's troubling me. 718 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 5: Then there was further conversations over the following days as 719 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 5: well about whether or not she should go public or private, 720 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 5: and whether or not the cost for private would be more, 721 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 5: but she wouldn't have to wait with the delays, and 722 00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 5: she also wouldn't then have to go and deal with 723 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 5: COVID patients going down that particular route as well. There 724 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 5: was also evidence given from the medical staff and in 725 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 5: these conversations Aaron Patterson was having with Simon Patterson around 726 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 5: that time that she'd been googling her symptoms and was 727 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 5: concerned about her health, and the informant agreed. The informant agreed, 728 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 5: he said, yes, I agree. This backs up what Colin 729 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 5: Mandy was saying. It says that Aaron Patterson had been 730 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 5: googling the symptoms, and he agreed that she'd been concerned 731 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 5: about her health for this period of time. 732 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 2: And it was sort of all of this was put 733 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 2: to the informant as being this was in the brief 734 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 2: of evidence that you collected, wasn't it? And he did 735 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 2: agree with most of that. There was a moment where 736 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 2: it was a little not heated, but there was a 737 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 2: back and forth for a moment where he was asked 738 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 2: about some particular medical history regarding her family's medical history 739 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 2: and their history with cancer. And we'll just play you 740 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 2: a little bit of what was said there now with 741 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 2: Colin Mandy and the informant, do. 742 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 8: You accept that there is material available to investigators and 743 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 8: on the brief which demonstrated that in October of twenty 744 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 8: twenty one, Aaron Patterson was concerned about having ovarian cancer, yes, sir, 745 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 8: And that she sought medical treatment about that or investigations 746 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 8: medical investigations about that, yes, sir, yep. And that she 747 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 8: has a family history of avarian cancer, both paternal and maternal, 748 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 8: with a daughter who had an ovarian mass that is 749 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:19,959 Speaker 8: an ovarian syst. 750 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 3: Well, that's self reported, sir. 751 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 8: But well, I'm asking you about the records. 752 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 3: The record says that, and that's what you're. 753 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 8: Going on, detective, aren't you When you're referring to the 754 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 8: medical records, you're relying on the accuracy of what's contained 755 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 8: within them. 756 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, what, Yes, We'll be back with more evidence as 757 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:36,919 Speaker 2: it's presented to the jury. 758 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this episode of Say Grace. 759 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 2: Please press the follow button in your app to get 760 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 2: our next episodes as soon as we publish. 761 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 5: For more reporting on the case, check out the Age 762 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 5: of nine News in your browser or app store. 763 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 2: We'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land 764 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 2: that this podcast was recorded on and wherever you're listening 765 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 2: to it now. 766 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,959 Speaker 1: Say Grace is created and hosted. 767 00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,959 Speaker 6: By me Penelope Lesh and me Erin Peace. 768 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,919 Speaker 1: This podcast is produced by Genevieve Rul.