S1: Hey, I'm Usman Farooqi and this is the drop a
S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and
S1: Mel Schembri and guys, a bit of breaking news from
S1: award season. So while everyone is focused on the Oscars,
S1: which are out in just a couple of weeks here
S1: in Australia, the Logies have announced they're tweaking some of
S1: their categories the way that the awards are decided. So
S1: previously there's basically been two main categories for each award
S1: most popular, like Most Popular Actor or Actress and Most
S1: Outstanding Actor or Actress, and the former is voted on
S1: by the public. The latter is voted on by a
S1: judging panel. The loggers have just announced that they're actually
S1: merging those into one category, where both a public vote
S1: and a judges vote will combine and they'll just be
S1: one award, I guess instead, it's a pretty interesting move
S1: from the logos. What do you guys think about it?
S2: I think it's pretty good. I think when we had
S2: that chat about the logos, we all agreed that change
S2: was necessary for a number of reasons, that the award
S2: show was too long and the categories were confusing, and
S2: also that because of the popular vote category, it gave
S2: networks kind of a lot of opportunity to push certain
S2: people to the forefront and kind of sway the results
S2: through public campaigns. So I think this is a really good,
S2: necessary and long overdue change and will hopefully kind of,
S2: you know, bring the logos back into relevancy that we
S2: were concerned they didn't have last time we talked about it.
S3: Yeah, for sure. I think this is super long overdue. Um,
S3: aside from the fact it could cut the broadcast down
S3: from ten hours to like eight, um, I think I
S3: think the biggest, like stumbling block for the logos has
S3: just often been that the public don't really understand what
S3: is going on with the like, so many categories. And
S3: so this obviously removes that, um, there's no longer most
S3: outstanding and most popular. And for a long time most
S3: outstanding was seen as kind of the one you wanted
S3: to win if you were in the industry, because that's
S3: the one that, like your peers voted for. So that
S3: had more cred. But then most popular was most popular
S3: and it was all very confusing. Whereas this will, just
S3: like the winners are the best awards will now be
S3: determined by a combined score from a judging panel, viewing
S3: data and the Australian public votes, according to the release.
S3: So it kind of brings all the information together, collates
S3: that and gives us the most deserving and best winners.
S3: So yeah, long overdue. Uh, and yeah, classic Logies getting
S3: in right before the Oscars to seal the awards glory.
S1: Yeah, the actual ceremony is not till later this August.
S3: Yep. So I think they said the 64th Logo Awards
S3: will be held in Sydney on Sunday the 18th of August.
S3: So yeah, a lot of time for us to process
S3: that and see what it will look like. But uh, yeah,
S3: definitely a step in the right direction. Yeah, I.
S1: Feel better about this, not just for the length of
S1: the shows, which have gotten, you know, pretty ridiculous lately,
S1: but also because, as you said, Thomas, it's confusing. Like
S1: what is popular versus like outstanding. It's just a very
S1: strange demarcation. But I think one of the questions I've
S1: got is, what are the weightings they're giving to each
S1: of these different components into it? If the judges all
S1: think one show is great, or one actor is great,
S1: and the voting public think completely the opposite, is it
S1: a 5050 split? Do the judges of the public have
S1: more of a say than the other? I don't know
S1: how that will work, and I don't know if that
S1: means you might end up with maybe popular but not
S1: very critically well-received shows getting awards, and then you might
S1: miss out on some of those little gems that maybe
S1: there are smaller streaming platform that are loved by people
S1: in the know, but didn't get a big, you know,
S1: viewership to to be able to vote for it. So
S1: I think there's maybe some teething issues to work out.
S1: I'm excited that they're trying something different. I think, let's
S1: give this a go and see how it works. But
S1: I do have some question marks about the actual mechanics
S1: of how to work.
S2: Yeah, I agree, and the judging panel has always kind
S2: of been a bit shrouded in secrecy for the low geeks. Right?
S2: My understanding is that they ask people from the industry
S2: to participate in the panel, but it's anonymous, and I
S2: think those people aren't allowed to say that they're judges.
S2: So we don't have a judge.
S1: I'm also.
S4: A judge.
S1: I'm not a judge. No, I'm not. But some of
S1: us here may be judges. We just don't.
S4: Know I am judging you.
S2: Blink if you're a judge. But, um. Yeah. So I
S2: guess that maybe it would be good to have a
S2: bit more clarity around who is deciding who is judging
S2: what and who can. Yeah, I think.
S1: In general, transparency is good for these things, right? You
S1: just don't want opaque, weird processes.
S3: Yeah. But then when you come into my house and
S3: I've got like heaps of Lego and then suddenly I'm like,
S3: Lego Masters, best show of the year.
S4: And then, you know.
S1: Yeah, Australian awards in particular have pretty weird processes like
S1: our music awards. The arias are judged by the industry,
S1: but it's also not clear who is invited to judge those.
S1: I mean, I've been invited to be a judge for
S1: the last few years. I don't know why or how.
S1: I know lots of other people are. There's also seems
S1: to be some label role in determining like nominations and
S1: things like that. And a lot of employees who work
S1: for big music labels get votes. And I think like,
S1: I mean, yeah, we had this conversation on on the
S1: show last year. So go back and listen to that episode.
S1: If you want more detailed comments from us about how
S1: awards work and why they matter. But I do think
S1: it's just a good principle to have good, clear, specific
S1: rules that make sense to the public and the people
S1: who are deciding who wins, even if it's not every
S1: single person's name, home address and email, there's some sense
S1: of like who they are. Like with the Arias and Logies,
S1: it'd be good to know if, like 50% of the
S1: people voting work for, you know, a TV network or
S1: a music label that has a vested interest in who wins.
S3: Yeah. That's fair.
S1: Okay, so now that that little bit of news is
S1: out of the way, we can talk about what we're
S1: really going to be discussing on the show this week.
S1: June part two is here. It's the focus of our
S1: conversation on the drop this week. It's probably going to be.
S1: The biggest film release of 2024. There's plenty to dive into,
S1: but there's a bit more going on in the world
S1: of TV and film from the past week that I
S1: thought we could dissect as well. Let's start with some
S1: news around one of our favorite shows from last year. Beef.
S1: Thomas talked to me about The Beef News, the Netflix
S1: limited series starring Ali Wong and Stephen Nguyen, is coming
S1: back with a new cast. Who we got?
S3: Yes, this one's very exciting. We all obviously loved beef.
S3: And I mean, speaking of awards, it absolutely cleaned up
S3: at both the Emmys and the Globes. Steven Yeun and
S3: Ali Wong. They took home basically every award they were
S3: nominated for and the series itself won, you know, anthology
S3: and best Limited anthology Series at the Golden Globes. It
S3: was one of those ones. We spoke about it like,
S3: I think, you know, lots of people loved it. It
S3: had the kind of A24 buzz, but then, especially after
S3: awards season, people were like, oh, like, what's up with
S3: this beef show? That's like also cleaning up. It was
S3: such a great example of a limited series and how
S3: much you can have an impact on, you know, the
S3: TV landscape. So I'm not surprised they bring it back
S3: for a season two. But this is one thing we
S3: didn't know. It's going to focus on two couples this
S3: time around. So we've got Charles Melton, Cailee Spaeny, Jake
S3: Gyllenhaal and Anne Hathaway.
S1: So like a stacked cast, that is very exciting.
S3: It really is a stacked cast. And it's kind of
S3: funny because it's got like, you know, Charles Melton Cailee
S3: Spaeny kind of like new ish, like on the Rise.
S3: Then you've got Anne Hathaway and Jake Gyllenhaal, kind of
S3: more established celebrities, like really good casting, almost a White
S3: Lotus style, like throw everything at the wall and see
S3: what sticks. Kind of cast almost like.
S1: A Netflix algorithm. How do we get young people and
S1: old people to watch this.
S4: Show as well?
S3: It's very clever.
S4: Yeah, it worked on me and.
S2: Jake and Anne Hathaway have been together in love and
S2: all the drugs. I thought they were really good in that.
S2: And I think Kayleigh is a great choice too, because
S2: everyone's talking about her because of, um, Sofia Coppola's Priscilla.
S2: She was kind of the real star of that movie.
S2: So I think they've kind of hit the nail on
S2: the head here quite well. And I will say, you
S2: loved me so much that you have a beef t shirt, right?
S3: I do, that's probably, uh, probably one of the only
S3: few pieces of merch I bought recently. Bought that from
S3: the A24 store where it often got a nice steak
S3: on it.
S2: But my understanding is this is a completely separate storyline, right?
S2: Has nothing to do with the first.
S3: Yeah, correct. I assume it'll still like all hinge on
S3: some kind of altercation that brings these four people into
S3: each other's lives. But, um, yeah, it's really cool. And
S3: I do think, you know, we've spoken so much about
S3: The White Lotus, which of course isn't coming back for
S3: season three until 2025. Sadly, we are getting like drip fed,
S3: you know, information about that new cast and more and
S3: more these shows like you really feeling like the cast
S3: announcements and the very strange mix of people that are
S3: in the shows are doing like a lot of heavy
S3: lifting in terms of hype, like it's become a new
S3: trend in TV, I think.
S1: Yeah, who's going to be a true Detective was sort
S1: of like that for the last few seasons as well.
S1: It sort of brings to the fullest other question, which
S1: doesn't annoy me that much, but I'm interested in your
S1: views on this. So both The White Lotus and Beef
S1: billed as limited series, which means that it's a one off, right?
S1: You have like eight episodes and that's it. And you
S1: enter that category at the Emmys and they cleaned up
S1: in that category. And then both of these shows have
S1: come back in new forms, with new casts and new
S1: settings and new locales. I don't mind because I love
S1: these shows that much, but should we just, like, Retire
S1: the Label limited series? It seems so obvious that if
S1: the show is popular, they're going to do it again, right? Like,
S1: it seems like there's a bit of fudging going on here.
S3: Yeah, no, I think there probably is. But also, I
S3: guess similar to you, I'm okay with it because if
S3: they don't, then suddenly you're going to have an even
S3: more stacked like already. There's issues with that, like comedy,
S3: you know, category in the Emmys. And then suddenly you'd
S3: have like The White Lotus and Beef along with bear,
S3: and then Ted Lasso and Abbott Elementary. So then you've
S3: got this really kind of strange mix. I mean, I
S3: do think there is a slight issue, but when you
S3: are basically wiping the slate clean and bringing a whole
S3: new cast, it is a different show under like a brand,
S3: I guess.
S4: Yeah.
S1: It'll be interesting to see how different this beef is
S1: to the original beef. And it's almost like, could it
S1: have just been a new show? Maybe, probably could have
S1: could have called it something different, but it comes in
S1: with the same, I guess, creators and writers as beef
S1: and with that in-built fan love. So it's a way
S1: to kind of have your cake and eat it too,
S1: which is, if you like that first show, you'll you'll
S1: like this one too. But also there's a new and
S1: exciting cast. I did see some people point out that,
S1: you know, one of the interesting things about beef was
S1: it had a, you know, it had an Asian crew
S1: who wrote and made the show and a predominantly Asian cast.
S1: And Ali Wong and Steven Yuan talked a lot about that.
S1: What what it meant for them to to be involved
S1: in a show that was as well-received as this and
S1: they've just gone, well, that's cool. And then other than
S1: Charles Melton, it's this entirely white cast for beef. So,
S1: I mean, again, that doesn't really bother me that much.
S1: This looks like a good show, but it's interesting that
S1: they have seemingly completely ditched the Asian American representation storyline
S1: side of things.
S4: Here, and maybe.
S2: They will play with that in the in the theme
S2: of this as well. Like maybe they will question whiteness.
S2: In that. I wouldn't say that they've kind of maybe
S2: they haven't wholesale ignored that element. But I do think
S2: it's interesting on the limited series front, I mean, it's
S2: kind of no different in a way to what film
S2: directors do. Like, you look at kind of David Fincher
S2: exploring the same kind of themes with different characters and
S2: different storylines. It's kind of TV directors doing that in
S2: a way, isn't it? They have their kind of interests
S2: that they want to probe, but they're just doing it
S2: in a limited series rather than a film. So maybe
S2: that's kind of what what is happening there?
S1: Yeah, like I said, I'm not unhappy about it. I
S1: just yeah, it is an interesting I mean, so much
S1: of this TV stuff, these terminologies that we use from
S1: an era of like the 90s cable comedy versus drama,
S1: 30 minutes of a 60 minutes, 24 episode runs, versus
S1: eight episode runs. It makes no sense in this current era. So,
S1: I mean, maybe we'll see the Emmys shake up their
S1: categories like the Logies have. Who knows, the Emmys taking
S1: cues from Down Under? Wouldn't that be a side?
S4: Yeah, well, I'm sure they're.
S3: Obviously across it like their Google alerts would have gone
S3: off this morning.
S4: Yeah, yeah. The announcement went out. So, uh.
S1: Let's shift gears to my favorite movie of the past
S1: six months. No one else is anyone but you just
S1: keeps winning. Sydney Sweeney Glen Powell's romcom, filmed famously in Sydney,
S1: has just hit a huge milestone 200 million USD at
S1: the global box office. This is like a shitload of money, guys.
S1: This movie was made for $25 million. It is the
S1: highest grossing romantic comedy since crazy Rich Asians in 2018,
S1: which was a very, very, very big deal in 2018.
S1: Being pre-pandemic when moviegoing was was much bigger as well.
S1: And it's the biggest grossing, uh, romcom that has an R-rating.
S1: So an explicit one since 2016. Bridget Jones's Baby, this
S1: is this is wild to me because I had a
S1: lot of fun in the cinema. Uh, I think a
S1: lot of people did. It's not like an incredible movie. Uh,
S1: I think it's critically kind of panned. Why do we
S1: think it is just continue to have this kind of success?
S2: I think this is another completely tick tock driven, social
S2: media driven word of mouth, um, success. Because actually the
S2: opening weekend of this was quite bad, like or quite low.
S2: It didn't have a hugely successful opening weekend. But then
S2: you saw that song that is in the film, feel
S2: the rain on your skin. That's usually your part where
S2: you I mean, you usually do the singing on this podcast. Um,
S2: that Natasha Bedingfield.
S1: Yes. Some respect on her. I was gonna.
S4: Say that song, that song, which.
S2: Also. Yeah, it was like the was it Laguna Beach
S2: or The Hills? It was one of their.
S1: Oh no, Laguna beach was, um, was Hilary Duff. Oh you're.
S2: Right.
S3: Oh, same to you though.
S4: Aren't that unbelievable? It also had.
S1: Lyrics about rain, but it's different to this one.
S2: What am I thinking of then, anyway? You're thinking of.
S1: Come Clean by Hilary Duff. You just got confused with no.
S4: I go, no I'm.
S3: Not. If anyone's gonna explain it to you, it's also
S3: he's the man for this job.
S2: The Hills theme song unwritten. You can all apologize. Uh, yes.
S2: So I think then that created a viral moment, which
S2: everyone was kind of filming themselves, coming out of the cinema,
S2: dancing to that and in the rain and kind of
S2: doing all kinds of things to that song. So I
S2: think that then drove a lot of the kind of publicity,
S2: so that even after launched in cinemas, it continued to
S2: garner kind of word of mouth success. And then obviously
S2: they put it into cinemas for, um, Valentine's Day as well,
S2: which was very smart. And then during the entire kind
S2: of during the entire time it was in cinemas, that
S2: publicity campaign of Glen Powell and Sydney Sweeney and their
S2: kind of chemistry off stage continued to build and build
S2: and build. Um, so I just think it was a
S2: real kind of success point.
S4: I feel like Saltburn similarly.
S1: Um, you know, a movie that is very bad that
S1: people on TikTok loved making memes of, and lots of
S1: people watched it. I think anyone but you is way
S1: better than Saltburn, but that's my own view. I'm sort
S1: of an Olympian, Thomas. I'm shocked that after all the
S1: hype you gave this movie last year, you still have
S1: not seen everyone in the world has seen this movie
S1: except for you.
S3: I know, I think I'm in my head now about
S3: the Sydney, so anything like it's become like a complex
S3: where I'm like, no, I can't engage with Sydney Sweeney
S3: and her body of work because I've become it's become
S3: too much of my brand or something.
S1: So no Madame Web for you either. Yeah.
S3: No, I mean, that one's just more of a personal choice. Uh,
S3: I mean, look, I think this is probably the time
S3: where I should say something like. Sydney Sweeney is, like,
S3: the greatest cultural influence of our generation. And no wonder
S3: the movie has made so much money. But, uh, yeah,
S3: I weirdly, I still have not seen anyone but you.
S3: And because, like, I guess so many people know that
S3: I really love Sydney Sweeney. I feel like everyone has
S3: texted me about it being like, hey, man, what do
S3: you think about anyone but you? And so I've had
S3: to have the same conversation.
S2: I feel like you build it up so much in
S2: your head, like you were so excited to see it
S2: that now you can't like the promise, can't live up
S2: to the potential. So like, you're avoiding seeing it because
S2: I think so.
S3: Maybe. And also like, funnily enough, it just dropped onto streaming.
S3: Have you seen like you can hire it? Um, it
S3: came up on my like whatever when I turned on.
S3: But it was like 15 bucks. I was like, fucking
S3: paying 15 bucks for anyone but you.
S1: I think, you know, I think Sony has a deal
S1: with Netflix where once things are out of cinema and
S1: off that kind of rent, rent online, it hits, it
S1: hits Netflix. I think this this movie will go ballistic
S1: on Netflix. Like like it has in the in the movies.
S1: Anyone who didn't go to the movies will just be like, great,
S1: two hours of dumb fun. Let's go.
S3: Well, look, there's nothing wrong with two hours of dumb fun.
S1: Totally agree, totally agree. I think the other thing about
S1: the movie that is interesting is from my little bit
S1: of box office research, it seems to be the second
S1: biggest film explicitly set in the city of Sydney. There's
S1: a lot of movies that have been filmed in Sydney,
S1: like The Matrix and some Superman movies, but they're not,
S1: like set in Sydney. Uh, anyone but you is the
S1: only one I could find that beat. It was me two,
S1: starring Tom cruise. Yeah, which I think made like $460 million.
S1: So that's kind of cool for for the city of Sydney.
S3: Yes. I often go over to, um, La is kind
S3: of near where I live and go to the island
S3: where they filmed, you know, like he's on the motorbike
S3: and stuff.
S1: Yeah, yeah. Great scene.
S3: Yeah. Great scene, great movie.
S1: Okay, so before we get into the Dune Part two
S1: conversation for the final time, probably and hopefully for the
S1: next three weeks until the album comes out, we're going
S1: to talk about Taylor Swift. You guys saw her on
S1: the weekend. After much hype and build up, what did
S1: you think? How the vibes.
S2: Are. It was amazing. It was kind of and it
S2: wasn't even Taylor was amazing. Her endurance to perform that
S2: for that long, the whole set and production was incredible,
S2: but I think it was more just the being part
S2: of the crowd and the audience so engaged, so much
S2: a part of that show. It was unlike any stadium
S2: tour I've been to before, and I kind of think
S2: of Harry Styles and Ed Sheeran, and then some of
S2: the more old school one Foo Fighters, Red Hot Chili Peppers.
S2: They've all been here recently, but I've just never seen
S2: anything with the crowd is so much of a factor
S2: of the show and so participating in it as you
S2: go along. Um, so I was really glad I was there.
S2: I thought it was incredible. And then I found it
S2: interesting because, um, Olivia Rodrigo started her tour on the
S2: weekend as well. And I do think Taylor's show has
S2: fundamentally changed how, you know, pop stars will perform in
S2: the future. And like, Olivia, is obviously not going to
S2: be selling out huge stadiums yet. But already in her show,
S2: you can see that people are taking away these kind
S2: of moments from it. Like there's a moment where she
S2: comes out in a moon, there's a moment where she
S2: does Disney leg dancing, there's a moment where she throws
S2: over to the audience to finish the song, and these
S2: are already taking off these moments. And like, you can
S2: see that how people are going to get excited for
S2: these going to the show. So I do think, like
S2: this whole eras tour has really changed the kind of
S2: stadium shows we'll see in the future. Thomas, did you
S2: shake it off?
S3: I did, I did shake it off. Um, yeah. I mean,
S3: much like everybody else that saw her in the country,
S3: I was blown away. Um, it was really funny because
S3: I went on the first night in Sydney, uh, when
S3: the rain kind of cancelled Sabrina Carpenter slot. So, you know,
S3: they kind of heavens opened in Sydney and we missed
S3: her and. And then finished just in time for Taylor
S3: to begin. So she brought her out later, but it
S3: almost added to the experience, you know, like, you know
S3: how after a storm, it's like kind of this weird,
S3: like serenity. And then it was a really nice night
S3: in Sydney and Taylor came out and pretty quickly I
S3: was like, okay, I fucking get this now. Like just
S3: everything the way the amount of like, I think I
S3: said to, you know, like we were sitting in an
S3: area with a bunch of people who had media tickets,
S3: so like, everyone was into it, but not like crazy
S3: into it. And then two rows ahead of me, there
S3: were these two girls, like best friends, teenagers who were
S3: there together. And honestly, like, I've never seen two people
S3: having a better night in their lives. They they basically
S3: saying every song, like gripping each other's shoulders, like staring
S3: into each other's eyes and screaming the lyrics at each other.
S3: And it sounds weird, but like, even the guy next
S3: to me was like, this is. Are you saying these
S3: girls like, this is pretty amazing? And like, they were
S3: really like they were having the time. You're supposed to
S3: have it, Taylor.
S1: And I was like, you and I, Thomas at the
S1: Kanye concert.
S4: But yeah, like it was.
S3: It seriously was that whole energy I think was was
S3: pretty unique. I've never really seen that. Um, and yeah,
S3: and aside from the fact, like, Taylor was amazing, like, yeah,
S3: she can't dance. We all know that. Um, but the
S3: rest of the show was incredible. I did think, which
S3: I said to you both, like, maybe for me, I'm
S3: not really into like, the folk more ever more eras.
S3: And there were some definite down moments which you probably
S3: need in a show that goes that long. But maybe
S3: for me, a touch too many. Like, again, I could
S3: go Scorsese and probably like chop out 45 minutes from
S3: her show for her should she require that service. But otherwise, yeah.
S3: All in all, very impressed.
S2: Can I ask because Oz and I were in the
S2: office quite late on Friday night, blogging it through like
S2: live streams of TikToks, which was almost as fun, I
S2: have to say. Is going to the concert, which, uh, yeah, except.
S1: What we could hear was just like the fans singing
S1: really badly instead of Taylor.
S4: Swift. It's so funny, which is.
S1: A little bit painful.
S2: But I was wondering, I was worried that everyone got
S2: really wet, and then you had to spend the entire show,
S2: like in soggy shoes and clothes.
S4: Don't know.
S3: So I just before the rain started, they kind of
S3: like ushered everyone inside. It was like district nine. We're
S3: all like, so packed in there. Uh, and then once
S3: it finished, they sent us back out. So for the
S3: most part, I was not that good.
S4: Uh, look.
S1: I shared my thoughts on the episode last week. I
S1: agree with you guys. Great. Uh. Great show, great performer.
S1: Very happy to see her leave because this country was
S1: losing its mind. I don't want to spend too much
S1: time on it. But, you know, just this week, from
S1: the terrible, like, tone deaf comments from the police commissioner
S1: in New South Wales, Karen Webb, who in responding to
S1: a question about this tragic double homicide last week, said,
S1: you know, haters gonna hate. Isn't that what Taylor Swift says?
S1: In response to criticism of the New South Wales Police,
S1: Scott Morrison quoting the title of every single album in
S1: his valedictory speech.
S5: It is true that my political opponents have often made
S5: me see red, often when subjected to the tortured poets
S5: who would rise to attack my reputation.
S1: Terrible opinion pieces in The Australian newspaper from like old
S1: men talking about what Taylor Swift means for politics. We
S1: had our share, we had fun. But if she was
S1: here for literally one more day, I think this country
S1: would have completely lost the plot even more. So thank
S1: you Taylor for coming. Glad you had fun. Glad you
S1: made $1 trillion. But, um, we need a bit of
S1: a reset, don't we?
S4: Yeah, I.
S2: Mean, I think the kangaroo is the real winner out
S2: of this. She described a strong, cool and bouncy and
S2: Sydney Zoo.
S4: I was gonna say Sydney Zoo.
S3: If anyone want Sydney Zoo, we're booked out for the
S3: next six years. So.
S6: Hi, I'm Samantha Salinger Morris. I'm here because I want
S6: to let you know that at the age in the
S6: Sydney Morning Herald, we've just relaunched our daily news podcast.
S6: It's now called The Morning Edition, and I'm your host.
S6: In every episode, we unpack the biggest stories of the
S6: day with the best journalists in the country. Like Nick McKenzie,
S6: who broke the story about Ben Roberts-Smith, the war hero
S6: turned war criminal.
S7: Now what was going on from day night? It was
S7: about intimidation and shutting us up and saying, you come
S7: after Ben Roberts-Smith, he'll come after you.
S6: And Kate McClymont, whose investigations are synonymous with some of
S6: the biggest scandals and stories in Australian public life.
S8: When Eddie Obeid finally went to jail, I can remember
S8: being in the newsroom at the Herald and I actually
S8: burst into tears.
S6: The Morning Edition will take you beyond the headlines, bringing
S6: you the story behind the story. You can find it
S6: by searching for the Morning Edition in your podcast app
S6: of choice. New episodes will be in your feed every
S6: weekday morning.
S1: All right, well, onto the topic of cultural resets. We've
S1: gone from one giant pop cultural phenomenon into what could
S1: be another one. June Part two is released in cinemas today.
S1: On Thursday, it's the follow up to 2020 1st June,
S1: directed by Denis Villeneuve, starring Timothee Chalamet, Oscar Isaac, Rebecca Ferguson,
S1: Josh Brolin and the first one had like 30s of
S1: Zendaya in it as well, looking like she was in
S1: an ad for perfume or makeup or something. Um, before
S1: we talk, uh, in depth about Dune Part two, how
S1: did you guys feel about part one? What was your
S1: viewing experience like? Did you enjoy the first one? Were
S1: you excited about part two coming out?
S2: Look, I watched part one at home quite a while ago,
S2: and I didn't rewatch it again before going into this one,
S2: so I kind of went in cold and didn't remember
S2: a whole heap from it. Part one I remember quite liking.
S2: I think I watched it over two nights. I thought
S2: the cinematography was amazing, um, and it had a lot
S2: of kind of excitement about it at the time, but
S2: I remember it being a real standout kind of sci
S2: fi film and one of the biggest sci fi films
S2: to hit cinemas in some time. Um, but I it
S2: didn't kind of. I guess I haven't been a huge
S2: dune head. Did you like the first one, Thomas?
S4: Um.
S3: Not massively. I look, I think that it's been one
S3: of those few cultural kind of like phenomenons that I
S3: just am not across. I'm not really into sci fi, um,
S3: to begin with, but I always have like a passing
S3: interest in whatever people are talking about. And so I
S3: was aware of Dune. I watched it again. It's one
S3: of those ones I had to, like, do so much
S3: googling alongside. And so I just feel like I watched it.
S3: I was like, okay, looks good, but overhyped for me.
S3: And then now as we've entered like the Dune two era,
S3: I'm like, okay, well, I'm preparing to talk to people
S3: about this all over again.
S9: Haha.
S1: Well, I think this could be a fun conversation because
S1: you guys are both sort of normal people on this one,
S1: and I am what they call in the Dune verse.
S1: A spice head.
S4: I'm like.
S1: I'm like very, very deep on. On June lore, I
S1: was reading the books when I was a kid. I've
S1: read all of them. I read all the weird prequels
S1: and sequels written by Frank Herbert's son and his mate
S1: Kevin Anderson. Uh, the these these books are insane. They're
S1: completely unhinged. Um, they were written by Frank Herbert in
S1: the 60s, and they're engaging with ideas of, like postcolonialism,
S1: resource exploitation, oil like the, the, the, you know, tribes
S1: getting together in, in the Middle East to, to kick
S1: out European colonizers. Very Lawrence of Arabia inspired stuff, plus
S1: completely insane acid and hallucinogenic inspired storylines around people taking
S1: drugs and losing their minds. Such a crazy, uh, like
S1: lore around this. Famously considered unfilmable for a very long time. Uh,
S1: there's a version by David Lynch in the 80s, which
S1: is not a great movie, but completely unhinged. Uh, Alejandro
S1: Jodorowsky famously tried to adapt this, I think in the 70s.
S1: There's a great doco called Jodorowsky's Dune, which looks at
S1: him trying to make this movie, uh, and it just
S1: falling apart, I think he writes a script and goes
S1: to the studio and says, I've figured it out. I
S1: figured out how to film the unfilmable book. It's got
S1: to be 14 hours, though, and the studio is like,
S1: you're a psycho, get out of here. Uh, so yeah,
S1: I'm pretty into Dune, you could say. And I really
S1: enjoyed the first movie. I was very hype for the
S1: second movie. Well, you say things you want to get
S1: off your chest about me before we go.
S4: Yeah, well.
S3: Yes, a few.
S4: Things, like.
S3: Jimmy related to Dune or, um, firstly, everything you just said,
S3: I'm like, well, this is a perfect Venn diagram of
S3: all of Osman's fucking interests. So, like, unsurprised that like,
S3: 11 year old Osmond was like, you know, up in
S3: his room, like reading Dune, being like, well, what you guys.
S1: Probably don't even know because they're not explicit about this
S1: in the, in the, in the, um, films, they're not explicit.
S3: About anything.
S1: The religion of the main kind of the Fremen, the
S1: characters that Timothee Chalamet sort of bonds with. They are
S1: a made up religion in this world called Zen Sunni,
S1: which is this, like futuristic blend of Sunni Islam and
S1: Zen Buddhism. So yeah, you're right, you couldn't get more
S1: in my Venn diagram as like a teenager if you tried.
S2: It was very funny last night because Thomas went over
S2: to me. We went and saw it together at the screening,
S2: and Thomas leaned over and he's like, what do you
S2: think Oz thinks this is about? And I was like, communism,
S2: definitely communism.
S4: Um, I.
S1: Don't I don't know if I was about communism, Mel.
S3: I was more like getting in trouble from the security
S3: guard with his laser pointer with ten times. Man. You did? Yeah. Because,
S3: like I was we were at a screening, I got
S3: my phone out to text my wife, like something about whatever,
S3: who cares? And then the security guy behind me, like,
S3: put his laser point on me. And then the first
S3: time I was like, okay. And then two more times
S3: that happened because I was like, dealing with the situation.
S3: I was like, if this motherfucker laser pointed me again,
S3: I swear to God, like I was. Well, there was.
S1: A big warning saying, please do not touch your phone because.
S1: And they.
S2: Also announced.
S4: That if I had my iPad.
S3: I was filming it like a boomer at a wedding then. Yeah, fine.
S3: But I was, like, discreetly texting, you know, brightness down low.
S3: I was like, this guy needs, like, a different job.
S2: But also for my understanding, that's like kind of anti
S2: the world of June. Right? Which is no computers and
S2: no kind of.
S1: I mean that's right, that's right. Well let's talk about
S1: the movie before we get we get we get further.
S4: Deep into the backstory of The.
S1: Butler and jihad and why there are no machines in
S1: this universe. So. So the second film picks up. Um, yeah.
S1: The butler in Jihad is a real thing that happens. Um, anyway,
S1: the second film picks up basically the minute after the
S1: first one. And so if you're interested in saying this,
S1: you really should do a rewatch of the first one.
S1: I think, uh, we have Timothee Chalamet character Paul hiding
S1: out with his mum, played by Rebecca Ferguson, and a character, Sharni,
S1: who's a freshman, played by Zendaya. They're all hiding in
S1: the desert of Arrakis. Uh, Paul's House Atreides has been
S1: all but wiped out by the rival family, the Hawkins.
S1: They are led by the evil, terrifying looking Baron, played
S1: by Stellan Skarsgard. The film basically follows Paul as he
S1: tries to adapt to the ways of the desert, and
S1: grapples with this prophecy that suggests that he could be
S1: the one to lead the Fremen out of the wilderness
S1: and to reclaim their planet, Arrakis. There's a few new
S1: characters introduced into part two. The most significant one is
S1: probably the one played by Austin Butler. That's Faid Rother,
S1: the nephew of Baron Harkonnen and I guess kind of
S1: an antithesis, rival to Paul in terms of where this
S1: whole storyline is going. I thought part two was basically
S1: part one, like turned up to 11. A lot of
S1: the backstory and exposition, they seemingly thought they'd gotten out
S1: of the way in part one, and don't really bother
S1: explaining a lot to you in part two. It's just
S1: we're going for it. It reminded me a fair bit
S1: of like mad Max Fury Road, not just because of
S1: the desert settings, but the sheer intensity, particularly watching this
S1: movie on Imax with the sound, the action sequences, very, very,
S1: very overwhelming. Kind of like heart racing stuff. Just, um,
S1: just kept coming back to me. Pure like maximalist filmmaking.
S1: Danny's like, I'm going to make a huge epic space adventure,
S1: and I'm going to make it feel big and overwhelming
S1: and spectacular and it moments quite terrifying. I also thought
S1: the acting was generally really, really good, particularly Salomé and Butler.
S1: I thought really gave it their all. And yeah, like
S1: I said, it's an experience. If you can say this
S1: at the Imax, I'd recommend it. I just don't think
S1: this movie would translate as well to watching it at
S1: home or like on a laptop. What did you guys
S1: make of June part two?
S2: Well, look, as I mentioned, I hadn't seen Dune Part
S2: one a while ago, and I kind of I don't
S2: want you think I'm bad at my job. I kind
S2: of made the decision to go in cold and without
S2: doing the deep dive. I think I actually have the
S2: potential to be a dune head like, but I've missed
S2: my moment because, like, I was someone who loved Lord
S2: of the rings, I read them all. I read this
S2: a million. I kind of was deep into that world,
S2: but I never kind of got into the Dune June thing.
S2: But so I went into this cold, and I have
S2: to say, I did not understand what was going on,
S2: which you just flagged like that. They don't give you
S2: heaps of set up. Um, in saying that, I could
S2: understand the broad sweep of things. The North, the South,
S2: I knew who were the baddies, I knew who we
S2: were going for. But there was obviously a lot of
S2: stuff that I didn't really get and they didn't explain. Like,
S2: I knew the blue potion did something magical. I knew
S2: there was obviously a bigger council with Florence Pugh playing
S2: kind of the daughter of the leader of the council. Um,
S2: but I felt like there was not a lot of
S2: context given. So I did find the kind of details
S2: of the world as someone without the backstory. I did
S2: find the details of the world kind of confusing, but
S2: not so much that it detracted from my enjoyment because
S2: the bigger picture stuff was all very easy to follow,
S2: if not the kind of micro level politics of of
S2: the universe.
S1: What about you, Thomas?
S4: Um.
S3: Yeah, I guess, like.
S4: You did not like, I can say like you're allowed
S4: to say. I really didn't like it. Yeah, um.
S3: I just found it, like. And, you know, you mentioned
S3: Lord of the rings, and I love Lord of the rings. And, like,
S3: I'm not a sci fi guy, but I love Star Wars.
S3: I've seen every Star Wars film. And I guess, like,
S3: if we're kind of doing like, like for like, comparisons,
S3: they're similar ish. Um, you know, franchises and worlds that
S3: deal with, you know, hugely huge worlds with multiple characters
S3: dealing with very, you know, much broader themes. Um, and
S3: I love both of those series. I just find June
S3: to be so, like, laborious and so hard to get
S3: myself into the world. And, and the second movie I
S3: found like exactly the same as the first in that like, visually,
S3: you know, like, like get it out of it, get
S3: the obvious out of the way. It looks amazing. It
S3: sounds amazing. Like from a technical standpoint, the film is
S3: great as a product, but I just couldn't get myself
S3: into the story and I found part to even possibly
S3: more like dry. Um, that's dry.
S4: Or whatever.
S2: No water there.
S4: Um, I really.
S3: Like. When they did drink that Alice or whatever the
S3: water of laughs.
S4: But yeah.
S3: Like, I really just found myself struggling through it, um, and,
S3: and on the way home because I was like, I'm
S3: trying to, like, I guess, interrogate why I find this
S3: movie so difficult and and is it is there a
S3: real division between, you know, the oseman of the world,
S3: people who are proper dune heads? But then the movie
S3: is so hype, so like not everyone is going to
S3: be at the level of fandom you are oseman people
S3: are just like, you know, lots of my mates were
S3: keen to see Dune two and were like jealous that
S3: I was going like, My God, would I swap with
S3: you in a heartbeat? Yes. And so then like, what
S3: is it like, what is it about the film that
S3: appeals to people who aren't on the same crazy level
S3: as you?
S1: It's a really good question. I've been thinking about that
S1: myself as well. Like, I think it was just like
S1: separate these two components out. We've talked a bit about that,
S1: the filmmaking side of it, and let's have that conversation
S1: about the the is the story or all the complexity
S1: of what's going on. I think if we, we, we
S1: all seem to agree that it's pretty stunning. It's shot
S1: by Australian Greg Fraser who did the first one. I
S1: think what he's done with the the desert stuff, but
S1: also this contrast, there's this bit in the middle of
S1: the movie where we go to the Harkonnen planet, where
S1: we see Austin Butler in this kind of Gladiator esque
S1: sort of setting. That black and white style is awesome,
S1: and it's almost like an entire second movie just in
S1: the middle of it and all that stuff, I think,
S1: I think is good, and I think it's hard to
S1: critique the movie for the way that it looks and
S1: feels and sounds, and I think that it's a sci
S1: fi movie, so there's some CGI, but a lot of
S1: the effects feel practical as well. Like, you really feel
S1: like you're seeing these giant, you know, metal spaceships exploding
S1: and all that sort of stuff. And then that brings
S1: us to, I guess, the complexity of the story and how,
S1: quote unquote, like normies might react to it, because I'm
S1: also surprised. Nell, one of our colleagues here in Melbourne,
S1: watched it last night with with her partner and I
S1: think neither of them a June heads and they loved it.
S1: And I'm really intrigued by that because there's so much
S1: like this movie opens. This is not a spoiler. It's
S1: in the first minute of the movie. If you don't
S1: want to hear what's in the first minute, you can
S1: tune out for the next 30s or whatever. It's like
S1: an embryo in Paul's mum that he's communicating with telepathically.
S1: That's an insane concept, right? To just chuck in to
S1: a blockbuster movie, and that is one of maybe 100
S1: insane ideas that is just left unsaid. It's not explained.
S1: There is an exposition around what's going on. You're just
S1: supposed to pick these things up. And there is a
S1: lot of complicated political stuff that I get that I
S1: guess a lot of people might not have haven't read
S1: the books. But to Mel's point, the story is not
S1: that dissimilar to things like Star Wars, right? In the
S1: sense there's this young kid in the desert who's teaming
S1: up with a group of rebels, and they're trying to
S1: beat the evil, fascistic bad guys who are like, very
S1: clearly the bad guys because they look hideous with shaved
S1: heads and have all this kind of triumph of the will,
S1: you know, iconography. And then there's a little bit of
S1: complexity with the people on his side. You know, there's
S1: a bit of tension between the religious fundamentalists and the
S1: sort of the the less, the more skeptical folk. And
S1: then Paul himself is his character, who's grappling with the
S1: weight of expectation, a bit of family tension, what he
S1: wants to do versus what's being thrust upon him. These,
S1: I guess, are ideas that are kind of universal throughout
S1: the hero's journey, throughout a lot of film and literature,
S1: I think there's enough to cling on to, even if
S1: you're not entirely sure how a sandworm works or what
S1: the blue liquid is, that that's kind of my take
S1: on it.
S2: Yeah, I agree, I think like the, the tropes of
S2: kind of classic Hollywood blockbuster, are there love story, enemy,
S2: personal quest, revenge, like it is all there. And I
S2: will say too, like, I think this movie picked up
S2: in the second half for me, and there are some
S2: scenes that are so good that they are so gripping,
S2: like the sandworm riding scene, the scene you mentioned earlier
S2: where Austin Butler, who I thought was so good in this,
S2: where Austin.
S1: Yeah, he's not doing the Elvis voice, to be clear.
S4: He's still a very deep voice.
S2: Um, Austin Butler as a bold man, um, was very
S2: good in this. Uh, yeah. The gladiator scene was really good.
S2: I thought that kind of showdown scene between, um, Timothy
S2: Salomé and whoever those people were was. That's how, like,
S2: we've been talking about this film. Those people. I thought
S2: that was a great thing. Yeah. I think all the
S2: individual scenes in this or a lot of the scenes
S2: were really spectacular, both in terms of the tension and
S2: the shots. Um, so I do think I do understand
S2: why people love it, even if they don't know, you know,
S2: the complexities of it. But they didn't. They weren't enough
S2: for you, Thomas.
S3: I mean, I'm just like, yeah, some of the scenes
S3: were really good. And I did like that Austin Butler
S3: sequence in black and white. Um, that's where my favorite
S3: part of the whole film. But yeah, like, I just
S3: think when I feel like I need to have the director,
S3: like fucking sitting next to me being like. And then
S3: when this happens, like, this is why, which I don't
S3: normally need. I'm not like, you know, a simpleton. Uh,
S3: I'm just like, well, it takes away from the, you know,
S3: enjoyment of the film for me. And again, like, I
S3: haven't been like part of the June, I guess, like
S3: cultural moment for a long time. So it's hard to
S3: kind of come in and just like throw myself into
S3: the world and fully appreciate it. And, you know, like
S3: literally the biggest thing I knew before this movie is
S3: that everyone is like having sex with the June 2nd
S3: popcorn bucket.
S2: Like, I do feel like, though, and like I feel
S2: like I want, like a quick fire round with Oz
S2: of questions because I'm like, because I hadn't seen the
S2: first one in so long. I'm kind of like, what
S2: does Zendaya's people want? Why is she so mad that
S2: Timothee has become a cult figure? Who are the overlords
S2: of this land? What is Timothy's ultimate goal in this? Like,
S2: are you gonna.
S4: Let me answer these questions? This is gonna keep us. Well,
S4: I mean, and look.
S1: And I actually understand what you're saying, Thomas, like, I don't. Yeah.
S1: You're not. You're obviously not as important. A very smart
S1: man who watches a lot of movies. Um, and I
S1: don't think this is like, you're a dummy if you
S1: don't get this movie, though. I was thinking, you know,
S1: at these media screenings, you go to, you see these
S1: influencers who get invited to, like, hype movies up. And
S1: so a lot of just like young, very attractive women,
S1: you know, wearing like, fancy gowns and stuff, taking selfies
S1: and promoting it to their TikTok followers, Instagram followers, more
S1: power to them. And then they'll file in to the movies.
S1: And I'm like, this is like, this is one for
S1: the weirdos like me.
S4: Like what?
S1: What is what is that take on this film? But yeah, yeah.
S1: And like, you know, the cool thing about June and
S1: this prophecy is that there is this, like, religious order
S1: of nuns called the Jesuit, and Paul's mom is one
S1: of them. And they've seeded this prophecy on Arrakis tens
S1: of thousands of years ago. And there's a group of
S1: Fremen who believe in it, and they think that he's
S1: the Mahdi. The Savior is going to save them. And
S1: there's this other group. And I guess that's Zendaya's character
S1: who think this is all bullshit, just planted by these
S1: people to keep them oppressed and compliant. And I guess that,
S1: you know, Frank Herbert didn't make that up. He he's
S1: he's having a, you know, interrogation of religion and these
S1: ideas and how prophecy and scripture can sometimes be salvation
S1: for people, but can also be used to aid in
S1: their own subjugation and oppression. But there's a big, complex themes,
S1: and at no point does anyone really sit you down
S1: and say, this is who the Bennett Gesserit is, this
S1: is how this is working. And then there's divisions between
S1: them as well. So I do understand the complexity. I'm
S1: not trying to just defend it for the sake of it.
S1: It is messy.
S3: No, it is. And I think, you know, especially watching
S3: the first one, like if you could just see my
S3: Google history from that, that watch, it was like, who
S3: is being a Jesuit? What is Arkansas or whatever? Like
S3: what is the worm? Who is like, who is Ingram al-Sham? Like.
S2: What is the no is the nose thing so they
S2: can breathe in that? Yeah, that suits.
S1: That. Take the look. And I will say this one
S1: thing as an example of how unhinged these books are. Again,
S1: no spoilers. Uh, again, tune out for the next minute
S1: if you don't want any spoilers about the Dune universe. Okay,
S1: that's your chance. In 10,000 years. In the fifth book, right,
S1: Paul's son has merged with a sandworm to become the
S1: God Emperor of June. That's how crazy these books get.
S4: If they make these movie.
S9: I don't, I don't know.
S1: I don't know how people are going to react to
S1: that sort of stuff, but I think this is like
S1: Non-spoiler territory. I think why another reason why I enjoyed
S1: this film. Despite that, it might be a bit complicated
S1: for people. I use this term a lot, like directors
S1: taking a big swing. I do like that this. This
S1: is such a complicated and meaty story with all those
S1: things I was talking about around colonisation, around resource exploitation,
S1: around religion, around family tension, politics, all this sort of stuff,
S1: and just trying to make it a film with that complexity,
S1: not stripping it down to just goodies versus baddies. Like
S1: there's a whole arc that that Paul Timothy character goes
S1: on where he's a reluctant hero, then he kind of
S1: gets into it, and then by the end of it,
S1: you're kind of thinking, is he really the good guy here?
S1: Has he lost sight of what he said he wanted
S1: to do? That's a pretty complicated hero structure, and I
S1: like that they're grappling with that.
S2: Yeah, and I do like to that he didn't shy
S2: away from making a movie that would appeal to the fans,
S2: as well as attempting to appeal to the the normies
S2: as you, as you call us like it is hard
S2: when you take something that is so beloved by fans
S2: to make it into a film. I do think one
S2: of the issues I had with the film was, I
S2: feel like Hollywood has this real thing at the moment
S2: with like an ensemble cast which has like the hottest,
S2: biggest names and putting them all into one film and
S2: then kind of wasting them like, uh, Florence Pugh, I
S2: didn't think had like a huge role. I thought she
S2: could have had a much bigger role. I would have
S2: liked to see her more. I thought Anya Taylor-Joy was
S2: going to be in this, but like, obviously they're flagging
S2: her for a potential June. Yeah, I.
S4: Think Florence Pugh.
S1: And Anya Taylor-Joy, it's kind of what happened with Zendaya
S1: in the first one is you're going to be teased,
S1: and then you're going to have a big role in
S1: the next one. And we should say that Denise basically
S1: said that there will be a third one. He's writing
S1: the script now, and if that follows the structure of
S1: the next book, Florence Pugh's character and Anya Taylor-Joy, his character,
S1: will have a lot more to do in it as well. Thomas,
S1: you probably won't be along for that ride unless I
S1: we saw podcasting in 5 to 6 years or whenever
S1: it comes out, and I make you do it. Yeah.
S3: No, uh, I'll be sick that day.
S4: I don't think.
S2: Security is letting you into the cinema.
S4: Yes. Yeah, exactly.
S3: I might be in jail for having filmed Dune two
S3: illegally on my iPhone.
S2: Because you want to watch it again and again. Yeah.
S4: Correct.
S1: Well, I wonder whether this is a good point to
S1: talk about the kind of filmography of Denis Villeneuve, the director,
S1: a little bit more, because as we were talking through
S1: the movie and talking about this complexity and the lack
S1: of like a clear binary in terms of who's good
S1: and who's bad. It kind of did make me think
S1: about a lot of his work, like he deals with
S1: that moral ambiguity a fair bit. Some of my favorite
S1: movies of his Sicario, arrival, prisoners. I've been trying to
S1: rewatch as much of them as possible, leading into this
S1: week to see if there are any, any kind of
S1: clues for the way that, you know, Danny approaches film
S1: and story and what what he's done with June 2nd.
S1: And I think I think that's the clearest one, like
S1: Sicario is a film that is ostensibly about, you know,
S1: Emily Blunt and Josh Brolin trying to disrupt the the
S1: drug trade from Mexico into into America. But by the
S1: end of the movie, you're like, who are the bad
S1: guys here? Like, is the CIA and the US government
S1: really the heroes trying to stop this happening, or are
S1: they complicit in it or they're responsible for extrajudicial killings?
S1: There's a lot going on their arrival as well. Sort
S1: of seems like a sci fi story at the front.
S1: It's the Amy Adams, uh, film where she is is
S1: a translator or a linguist who is brought in to
S1: help decipher what aliens are up to. And that movie
S1: ends up being about, like, her trauma of losing a child. Um,
S1: you know, prisoners seems like it's this thriller about a
S1: cop and a dad trying to get his abducted daughter back.
S1: But is it actually a war on terror analogy about
S1: how bad torture is? Yeah, probably. Like Villeneuve is an
S1: interesting choice for a movie like Dune, because it's not
S1: a straightforward sci fi action thing. It is very complicated
S1: with characters who are not quite sure if they're good
S1: or bad. Do you guys have a relationship to his
S1: films generally? Do you have faves?
S3: I really love prisoners. We spoke about it recently, Oseman
S3: and again, I mean, similarly, I guess like on a
S3: less intense scale, but that very much deals with, you know,
S3: this obviously it's about two girls who go missing. Um,
S3: it's got Hugh Jackman, uh, probably one of his best films,
S3: and Jake Gyllenhaal, um, also Paul Dano, who's great, and
S3: Viola Davis, but it's basically about these two kids who
S3: go missing. And then, you know, the dad, Hugh Jackman,
S3: kind of becomes obsessed with the case to find his daughters. And,
S3: you know, we enter this very kind of like vigilante
S3: justice mode and his the lengths he goes to in
S3: order to solve the case in a way he thinks
S3: is appropriate. It really makes you question like, is he
S3: doing the right thing? And has he lost his mind?
S3: And and it does enter into that moral into that
S3: moral ambiguity. But I love that movie, whereas I didn't
S3: like June 2nd. Um, but you know that and Sicario
S3: and then Blade Runner because so funnily enough, after all this.
S1: Yeah, I left that Blade Runner at.
S3: 49. 849 so like in school, which I think is
S3: the case for a lot of people, I think June
S3: is on the syllabus in Australia for a lot of schools,
S3: whereas I was in blade like I did Blade Runner,
S3: Brave New World, very similar themes and have like a
S3: real relationship with Blade Runner. So I loved the new film.
S2: Um, yeah, I kind of agree. I like the thrillers better.
S2: I don't know, I feel like with The Rival and
S2: Blade Runner, both fantastic concepts and the world of Blade
S2: Runner is incredible. The shots and all of that was incredible.
S2: But I don't know, his films just don't get me
S2: intellectually or emotionally. I don't think like the thrillers are
S2: like great thrillers to watch. Have you on the edge
S2: of the seats, but the way you just spoke about
S2: kind of a Rival and Blade Runner makes me think like,
S2: I don't know, maybe I'm just not. I'm missing something
S2: with these films. Like they're not resonating with me in
S2: the same way. And I do feel like he's really
S2: good at creating a moment and tenseness. But to me,
S2: I don't see that kind of bigger depth to them.
S2: Like they're very pretty to look at. They're very great
S2: to watch. But yeah, I don't really think about them
S2: much after. And they don't stick with me and I
S2: don't want to go back and rewatch them particularly.
S1: I think that I think that's a normal reaction also.
S1: I mean, like, I think they're pretty cold movies, but
S1: but also, that said, I was going to say that
S1: if you are interested in Disney's films and you've watched
S1: Dune and you're kind of interested in and maybe some
S1: puzzle pieces that help him get there, a lot of
S1: his earlier filmography is a lot more focused on, I guess,
S1: like relationships and people. And there's one in particular, Incendies,
S1: which is a 2010 film from him about the Lebanese
S1: civil War. And I think it's based on a play
S1: that he saw in Montreal. And it's about, I guess,
S1: like religious sectarianism, kind of like June to us as well.
S1: But it's about a family. It's about a mum who
S1: passes away and leaves her daughters these letters, and they've
S1: got to go back to Lebanon, from from Canada and
S1: kind of figure out her life story. It's quite different
S1: to a lot of his, I guess, more formal, steely
S1: sci fi work is interesting director with that kind of range,
S1: I think. But I think what you're saying, Mel, is,
S1: is okay. I don't think like the text or the
S1: subtext in these movies is not like, I don't think
S1: you could look at any these movies like, oh, this
S1: is about like communism or this is about whatever. Yeah.
S1: They're not, as I think, meant to be taken literally
S1: about a particular idea as some of the director's works
S1: might be.
S2: Yeah, I understand what you're saying. And that ambiguity can
S2: be kind of obviously a powerful tool for a filmmaker.
S2: But in something like Dune Part two, I thought it
S2: was ambiguous to the point where the filmmaker really wasn't
S2: offering a huge message, but was completely relying on the
S2: audience to bring their message to it. Like, I think
S2: that the work that you've done in deciphering that film
S2: is not really there in the film to everyone. Like,
S2: I think you've done that work because of your reading
S2: and your knowledge and your interpretation of the world more
S2: so than it being in that film.
S1: Yeah, I think that makes sense.
S3: Did you like it better than the first one? Like,
S3: what did you think in terms of, you know, how
S3: they interact?
S1: Yeah, I did like it better than the first one
S1: because I think the the arc that that pulls character
S1: goes on throughout all of the books, but particularly in
S1: this sort of first story. And this movie, part one
S1: and part two are just based on the first book
S1: is really interesting, is really I think it's fascinating. And
S1: generally speaking, I thought the action sequences and the world
S1: building in this film was more impressive than the first one.
S1: The first one had great set pieces, had great set design, production,
S1: all that sort of stuff. But I just think he
S1: went to another level in this, like some of those
S1: fight sequences, just things I'd never seen before in a movie,
S1: the way that the Harkonnen are kind of floating up
S1: to that mountain and that battle with the rocket propelled
S1: grenade launcher, that kind of guerilla fighting style in space,
S1: it was reminiscent of some of the Star Wars like
S1: sequel movies, but just done in a much more, I think,
S1: visceral and real gritty kind of way.
S2: Yeah, I think that's definitely fair. Are you surprised and
S2: or disappointed by our response to the film?
S1: Not not so much, because honestly, when I finished the movie,
S1: the first thing I thought was like, if you're not
S1: deep on this, like me, what the fuck did you
S1: think happened?
S4: Right? Like it is?
S1: I genuinely think that. And so I'm kind of almost
S1: more surprised by the people who aren't in and are
S1: just like, that was sick. Uh, I think that crazy.
S1: But I'm happy for them. I'm happy they had a
S1: good time doing it. And I'm so interested because this
S1: is a big film, cost a lot of money, has
S1: a huge marketing budget, like there are trailers and ads
S1: and posters for this everywhere. They're banking on it being
S1: one of the biggest releases of the year. It's like
S1: between this and probably Deadpool versus Wolverine for what wins
S1: the box office in 2024. But based on what we've
S1: talked about, like, it could not it might not pay off.
S1: People might just say, I went to the big movie
S1: with Timothee and Zendaya and had no idea what was
S1: going on. There was weed, blue liquid and weed worms
S1: with weed mouths and a talking fetus. What the hell
S1: is this film? So I'm fascinated to see what this
S1: does at the box office.
S3: Yeah, I know, me too, because. That's basically exactly how
S3: I felt. I was like, it's so weird that this
S3: is the big one for the year, this absolutely batshit crazy.
S2: Film compared to what won the box office last year,
S2: like Barbie, which was so approachable to absolutely everyone. Well,
S2: this is.
S3: The other thing I was thinking, like, you know, I
S3: love to. Obviously I love the 90 minute film, but
S3: like even Oppenheimer, the biggest film of last year, it's
S3: about to like win, probably like ten Oscars next week. Um,
S3: it's basically a lock for Best Picture. There's never been
S3: a sports bets paying like a dollar for. It's like
S3: it's winning best Picture. It went for three hours and
S3: everyone loved it and it was amazing. And it was
S3: still a visually beautiful film, but it still had like
S3: plot and lots of dialogue. And it was interesting, like,
S3: can Danny not write some more fucking lines? Like, there's
S3: like seven lines in this movie?
S1: Yeah, he did have that quote, which I think is
S1: going around on social media this week about how he
S1: thinks that dialogue is for TV and film is for visuals. Look,
S1: I think he's probably being a bit simplistic. I don't
S1: think he really hates dialogue, like there is some dialogue
S1: in his movies, but I think he's making the point
S1: that in this era where everything is collapsing in and
S1: of itself in terms of TV and prestige and movies
S1: and streaming, that what film can do, particularly this maximalist
S1: film style on Imax, is just blow you away with visuals.
S1: He's clearly saying that matters more than the story or
S1: the conversations people are having, right?
S3: Yeah, because, I mean, there is no story and there's
S3: no conversation. So you'd really hope the visuals are great.
S2: Can I ask one final question? I was like, gonna cry?
S1: No, I'm just keeping an eye on at the time.
S2: Um, one final question. You have always had it out
S2: for Timothee Chalamet, particularly since he coupled up with Kylie. Um,
S2: we know your thoughts about feelings about that watching this film.
S2: Did it change how you feel about Timothee as a man,
S2: as an actor, as a life partner for Kylie?
S3: No, he's actually pretty good in this. I'll give it
S3: to him. He is good in this. I think it's
S3: funny that the whole movie and all this big dramatic
S3: like stuff is happening about a guy named Paul.
S4: That struck me so funny.
S1: Some of the names are hilarious, like his best mate
S1: in the first movie is a guy called Duncan Idaho,
S1: which is a crazy name.
S3: Yeah, it's like, you know, he's Liz and Gabe and like,
S3: all these amazing names and it's like, oh, what's Paul doing?
S4: Where's the Messiah? Paul?
S3: But no credit where credit's due. Timothy is good. And yeah,
S3: everyone go and see Dune two and then realize that
S3: once again, I am correct.
S1: Look, you mentioned the Oscars before. Thomas. We will be
S1: back next week with our proper Oscar film sort of breakdown, recommendations, previews, suggestions, guesses,
S1: Oscar chat. But right now, let's pivot to our weekly
S1: segment Impress your Friends. Will we recommend something we consumed? Watch.
S1: Listen to read that we think you guys would get around? Mel,
S1: I'm going to let you go first this time.
S2: Yeah, cool. Well, I actually already had my recommendation because
S2: I didn't use it last week because I had to
S2: kind of adjust to impress you. Okay, this won't surprise you,
S2: but it is a book. Um. Is it.
S4: June? Okay.
S2: Yeah. There we go. That's one way to to kind
S2: of win the Rex.
S4: I'm impressed.
S2: This one is Emma Clines. It's called The Guest. You
S2: might know her. She wrote the book the girls in
S2: in a few years ago. It was a huge, big hit.
S2: And it was kind of based on the Charles Manson murders.
S2: This one is like a really readable kind of on
S2: the edge of your seat gripping psychological thriller, but is
S2: doing something different with the genre as well. Like, it's
S2: not kind of just your stock standard thriller. It's about
S2: a young woman called Alex. Um, she's an escort. She's
S2: behind on her rent. She's struggling. In New York, she
S2: meets an older man who kind of takes it to
S2: the Hamptons and almost keeps her there. They have a
S2: falling out and she has nowhere to go, no money.
S2: And so it follows in real time her movements over
S2: the next five days. She kind of schemes to win
S2: this older man back into her favor. And it is
S2: just really compulsive reading and as well as being kind
S2: of and it puts you right in the moment. So
S2: it's just such a page turner. I think I read
S2: it in a few hours. Um, but it's also a
S2: real interesting character study as well. So it kind of balances,
S2: unlike June, the readability with the kind of tension of
S2: it all. Um, yeah. Good read, I think. I think
S2: you'd like it. Thomas.
S3: Yeah. No, I've seen it a lot around, and I
S3: feel like it is another one of those kind of
S3: like Insta pics. Um, so I've been like, it's been
S3: on my TBR, as they say.
S2: Yeah, yeah, I feel like it would probably Reese would
S2: be picking this for a book club kind of thing.
S4: Exactly.
S1: What have you got for us, Thomas?
S3: Uh, my one is, uh, Amazon Prime documentary. It's actually
S3: out today. Um, it's about, you know, one of our phase,
S3: one of my faves, at least. Uh, the kid Laroi, uh,
S3: the kid from Waterloo, uh, on top of the world,
S3: this is an Amazon Prime documentary that's been, you know,
S3: kind of hyped for a little while. It's called Kids
S3: Are Growing Up, a story about a kid named Leroy.
S3: And basically it charts his what is actually a pretty
S3: crazy rise to fame. It kind of starts in 2019,
S3: which is only a few years ago, really like 4
S3: or 5 years ago. Obviously, we all know how big
S3: the kid Leroy is now. Um, but this really takes
S3: us back to like, this 15, 14 year old kid
S3: in the streets of Waterloo, like, really hustling to get himself.
S3: Into the rap game by any means possible. Aside from
S3: being just like, you know, this hero worship for Kid Leroy, though,
S3: there was stuff I was really interested in that I
S3: think is worth watching. You know, he famously had a
S3: friendship with the rapper Juice World, who died in front
S3: of him, and it talks for the first time, really.
S3: You see kids really talking about how that impacts him
S3: and what actually happened as well as, you know, a
S3: very profitable and famous friendship with Justin Bieber. But my
S3: biggest takeaway, and the reason I think you should watch
S3: it is that he's actually like a pretty self-aware, like,
S3: interesting young kid. He's smart, he's anxious, he's nervous. He's
S3: everything you would expect him to be, but he's actually
S3: quite open about it. So I went in thinking I
S3: role and I actually really enjoyed it. So that is
S3: on Amazon Prime now.
S1: Nice one. Mine is a brand new TV show that
S1: just dropped this week. It's called Shogun. It's made by uh,
S1: it's airing here in Australia on Disney Plus. It's an
S1: adaptation of a 1975 novel that was first turned into
S1: a TV show in the 80s. Actually, it's set in
S1: 1600s Japan, a period when Japan's primary link to Europe
S1: was through trade with specifically Portuguese Catholics. That's important to
S1: the plot of the story. Uh, it opens with the
S1: shipwreck of some English Protestants in Japan, and we follow
S1: them as they arrive and try and figure out what
S1: the hell is going on in this foreign country to them.
S1: But a lot of the show focuses on this political
S1: intrigue between rival feudal lords in Japan. And the key
S1: one is played by Hiroyuki Sanada, who people might recognize
S1: from The Last Samurai or Sunshine or John Wick Chapter four.
S1: This show rules. I think it's gonna blow up. Uh,
S1: it's like very Game of Thrones meets, like, I don't
S1: know if you've seen Blue Eyed Samurai on Netflix or.
S1: Or The Last Samurai. It's really, really good. Like really
S1: well written, great intrigue, great, like weird Christian sectarianism stuff.
S1: A lot of fascinating history about Japan that I did
S1: not know about. I think this is one that we
S1: should keep an eye on, maybe talk about in a
S1: bit more depth in the next couple of weeks. There's
S1: a chance it becomes a very, very big deal. It's
S1: getting great reviews and, uh, it is it's got all the,
S1: I guess, all the pieces to, to to be a
S1: viral sort of TV streaming success. So could not recommend
S1: that more. You guys should check it out.
S2: I'm very excited to see this one.
S3: Are there any sandworms in it?
S1: Not yet, but only the first two episodes have dropped,
S1: so you never know. You know there is some sand
S1: in the first episode. The key scene involving sand.
S4: Actually. We're out. Perfect. Yeah. That's me.
S1: Uh, look, guys, I'm sorry for forcing you to watch
S1: Dune Part two, but I hope it wasn't entirely futile.
S3: No, I really enjoyed it. Great film.
S1: Uh, take care, guys. See you next week.
S4: Thanks.
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Margaret Gordon.
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
S1: make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app.
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
S1: a friend! I'm Usman Farooqui.
UU: See you next week!