S1: Hey, I'm Usman Farooqi and this is the drop a
S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Mel Schembri and
S1: Thomas Mitchell. How are you guys doing?
S2: We're here with birthday boy Thomas Mitchell. Big day. Wearing
S2: his new birthday boy jacket.
S1: Thank you. Is that. Is that a birthday jacket? You
S1: look very handsome. Yes.
S3: Some fresh gear. It's like, you know, when you get
S3: stuff for your birthday, you just wear all of the
S3: new stuff at once. I thought I would do that
S3: just to get it out of the way. And I
S3: knew that I would have this exact conversation with Mel.
S3: As soon as I walked in.
S2: He walked in with a birthday glow, his new jacket on.
S2: You're just having a great day, aren't you?
S3: So far, so good. Yes.
S1: Thank you for coming in on both your birthday and
S1: your week of leave. Very much appreciated.
S3: It's it's a pleasure. Always happy to talk with you guys. Uh,
S3: and yeah, it feels pretty good so far. Sadly, though,
S3: I did like, as much as I woke up and
S3: I was like, this is great. I'm having a great time.
S3: One of my first thoughts was like, I will never
S3: be on the SMH young novelists list now.
S2: Uh, 35 and under. So you could still. Yeah. So
S2: this is it.
S1: This is your last year. You've got to write the book.
S1: You've got 12 months.
S3: All right. Well the work begins today guys.
S2: I mean, you've still got the Miles Franklin and the
S2: Booker to aim for, so don't feel too disheartened.
S1: It's not the only significant event today. We recording this
S1: on Wednesday, which is the morning of the best sporting
S1: event of the year, game one of State of Origin.
S1: By the time this comes out on Thursday, we will
S1: either be devastated or ecstatic and honestly, probably most likely
S1: devastated as as Blues fans. But how are you guys feeling?
S1: You nervous? You're excited. You're full of dread.
S3: Well, I was just curious. Mel, what do you think
S3: about the new halves combination for the Blues? And also
S3: obviously McGuire coming in for Fittler?
S2: Okay, you've hit me with a hard question. I you
S2: know I love sport, rugby league. I was into it
S2: when I was younger because my dad was a huge
S2: Bulldogs fan, and I don't know if I've ever told
S2: you this story. I actually wrote Braith Anasta, the first
S2: fan mail he ever received.
S1: I think you've told us this story on the podcast.
S2: On the like. Yeah. So that is my like all
S2: of my, all of my knowledge of NRL is based
S2: from like the 90s. So I'm or the early 2000
S2: best era to be honest. If you want to talk
S2: about Luke Bert Hindmarsh magic. Yeah, yeah yeah. Daryl Halligan
S2: I think was he in the Bulldogs. Yeah. Good. Good kicker.
S2: Oh you know that's I can talk about that but
S2: current latrine Latrell Mitchell but.
S3: Uh latrine Mitcham. He didn't get picked sadly.
S1: I don't think there were any bunnies in this squad
S1: are there. It's not.
S3: Good. No. Probably fair, though, to be honest. Osborne, I
S3: know that breaks your heart, but, uh, look, I would
S3: say lots of my rugby league friends have been, uh,
S3: not very enthusiastic, but I walked past our esteemed colleague
S3: Andrew Webster, um, rugby league journalist, legend. And he said
S3: to me with a wink in his eye, Blues by four. So, wow.
S3: Let's see.
S1: You heard it here first. Well, actually, by the time
S1: you hear this, it will be last and you will
S1: know what will have happened. Yeah.
S3: Queensland by 60.
S1: Thomas, I know you'll be watching you at home with
S1: the family tonight. Are you going to be out and about?
S3: Uh, no, I'm going to stay at home. Uh, just
S3: like my wife's gonna cook a meal and then. Yeah,
S3: watch the game, and it'll be all very wholesome.
S2: And. Will you have a.
S3: Cake as I scroll through the Forbes 30 under 30?
S3: Just with absolute hate in my eyes. And, Mel.
S1: You know, you said you don't really follow, uh, NRL
S1: very closely, but will you be watching the game?
S2: I reckon I'll have it on in the background, because
S2: it does amuse me when I watch it. And the
S2: state of origin, I feel, is very heightened tension, which
S2: I enjoy. So I think I'll, uh, I'll keep an
S2: eye on it.
S1: We, we haven't actually mentioned, but just in case people
S1: think this is like a paid for bit by our employer.
S1: So the game is on nine, which is the company that, um,
S1: that owns our paper as well. We're not saying it
S1: because of that reason, but I thought in case people
S1: pulled me up on it, I should just acknowledge that, uh,
S1: just in case.
S3: I watch nine most nights anyway, just because the programming
S3: is great, the content is amazing. And also it's like,
S3: what else would you watch?
S1: You're not getting that pay rise, dude. Uh, look, today
S1: on the show, we're going to be talking about one
S1: of our most anticipated film releases of the year. It's
S1: hit man. And we're also going to be talking about
S1: the work of its director, Richard Linklater. I think, fair
S1: to say, someone who means a lot to all of us,
S1: particularly during formative periods of our lives when some of
S1: his biggest films were released. But before we get to
S1: Hit Man and Linklater, it's a bit of news that
S1: I wanted to unpack with you guys. When you guys
S1: were at school, what sound did they use to signify
S1: the beginning of the school day?
S3: Bring. Melanie actually went to the same school, by the way,
S3: just for those listening. Yeah.
S1: So you should be able to answer this.
S3: I'm going to throw to you. Well Mel was like
S3: much I mean this also won't surprise anyone. Mel was
S3: much more into school. Um, she was.
S2: The school into the school bell.
S3: Yeah, but you just, like, I can't remember, basically. So
S3: I'm sure you. Was it just like.
S1: A standard bell or do they play some sort of.
S1: You know, it was just.
S2: A standard bell.
S3: Right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think there was anything fancy.
S1: Weirdly enough, at my school in year six, they played
S1: Coldplay's yellow, uh, to signify, which is like pretty hectic, um,
S1: pretty like downer of a song to signify the start.
S1: I don't know what teacher was having a midlife crisis
S1: and was like, this is how we all kind of
S1: too young to really understand what the significance or, you know,
S1: the depressive nature of that song. But really odd in hindsight.
S3: It would have been better if they'd played The Scientist
S3: and you all walked backwards into the room like I didn't.
S2: Even know this was a thing. I thought they were standardized.
S2: I didn't know you could just play a song. I
S2: would have campaigned for that as part of the SK.
S3: Yeah. Got another angry letter from the cubby coat.
S1: Well, this week there's been a story that is at
S1: the juncture of the primary education system and music in particular,
S1: hip hop music. Uh, a school in Ramsgate, which I
S1: believe is like your guy's part of town.
S3: Yeah, that's. I live, like one suburb over, and it's
S3: basically the local primary school for us. And I can
S3: confirm that the Sanssouci like, kind of private Facebook group
S3: for the area has been, like, lit up the past
S3: 24 hours. Wow.
S1: All right, well, let's let's talk about what is going on.
S1: So that school has also been using a song to
S1: mark the beginning of the school day. It uses different songs,
S1: but lately they've been playing a track by indigenous rapper Birdz.
S1: The song is called Bagelen Bargain. It was released in 2021.
S1: That year it came number 30 in the hottest 100,
S1: so it's like a fairly popular song.
S4: Hey, patiently waiting for someone I ain't never seen before.
S4: They say he's a captain of men. But they believe
S4: in our love.
UU: From the land of the white sky. He's self-righteous a
UU: murder without license. Oh, with the spirit I'm the nicest
UU: thinkin that I might just.
S4: Wait till night.
S1: One parent, though, was not very happy about the choice
S1: of song. He went on to GB and said he
S1: thought that this was inappropriate to play to children because
S1: of the way it discussed colonisation, and white people in particular.
S1: The song was actually written as part of a documentary
S1: examining the anniversary of Captain Cook's arrival in Australia, and
S1: it's written from the specific perspective of a Butchulla warrior
S1: standing on K'gari Island, formerly known as Fraser Island, witnessing
S1: cook and the colonists sail past. The language that got
S1: this parent particularly upset was a reference to Cook and
S1: British colonists as white devils. This became a big political
S1: issue when the Education Minister in New South Wales weighed
S1: in and said the song's lyrics were, quote, very concerning,
S1: it's very.
S5: Concerning and I'm going to have to ask the department
S5: to obviously come back to me on what has happened here, because,
S5: I mean, we've been really consistent. I've been really consistent.
S5: Schools are not places for things like that. Anything that
S5: creates any sort of division we can't have in our schools.
S5: So I'm going to have to get onto this ASAP.
S5: This morning.
S1: The department apologised for any distress caused by the playing
S1: of this song and has counselled the Ramsgate principal over
S1: their song selection, their playlist making abilities. The New South
S1: Wales premier, Chris Minns, said he didn't believe any kind
S1: of rap was appropriate for schools and the opposition leader
S1: in New South Wales, Mark Speakman, said he didn't want
S1: young children exposed to what he described as inflammatory hip hop.
S1: Now it's a fair bit going on, uh, with this one.
S1: To me, it immediately felt like the latest chapter in
S1: what feels like a pretty big moral panic of a
S1: hip hop happening right now in Australia, particularly in New
S1: South Wales. We've talked about it a bunch on the show.
S1: The Easter show has banned the playing of hip hop
S1: after some violent incidents there. One for the drill rap
S1: group that we've spoken about a fair few times, have
S1: announced the national tour. The one city that they're not
S1: playing in is Sydney. There still seems to be this
S1: kind of fear or this association. Of hip hop music
S1: with violent incidents. This is interesting because it's slightly different.
S1: It's not really about gang affiliations. It's an indigenous rapper
S1: talking about their perspective on colonization, and that being seen
S1: as being threatening to to some white parents, it seems.
S1: What did you guys make of this? What's the Facebook
S1: vibes on this one, Thomas?
S3: I mean, you can kind of imagine what vibes on
S3: like suburban Facebook groups typically are. Uh, you know, it's
S3: it basically is boomers kind of like up in arms
S3: about it. Uh, I don't know. For me, it's a
S3: kind of tricky one, I think, because, well, like, I
S3: guess like very firstly, I do find the playing of
S3: a song just a bit weird anyway, and you really
S3: open yourself up to like, these exact kind of problems
S3: where then you, like, accidentally trigger a culture war because of,
S3: like people disagreeing like I did. I have seen that elsewhere,
S3: like previous songs that they have used have been like
S3: we're all in This Together by Ben Lee, or they
S3: did Happy by Pharrell.
S1: Yeah, yeah.
S3: Like these are very different vibes. Like, I just think like.
S3: And I also do think the idea or the image
S3: of the Ramsgate principal being counselled by the Department of
S3: Education is very funny. Like, do they sit him in
S3: a room and, like, play this song like noise torture
S3: or something? But yeah, I don't know, like I, I
S3: kind of like I can, I can see why parents
S3: have complained. Not that I agree with like the complaint itself,
S3: but I mean, you play a rap song to a
S3: bunch of kids and you're going to annoy some parents,
S3: like it's just a reality.
S2: Yeah, I reckon it's less about hip hop and more
S2: about the the nature of the way that the artist
S2: is talking about colonization. I don't really comprehend how this
S2: song is so divisive. It's about indigenous sovereignty, the endurance
S2: of indigenous culture, questioning of terra nullius. It's about, um,
S2: it starts and ends with indigenous language, which has been
S2: recognized as important in preserving indigenous culture. And this is
S2: essentially what they should be talking about in history class.
S2: So I think rather than, you know, there should be
S2: a teaching moment for them to discuss all the concepts
S2: in this song. And then I was kind of thinking like,
S2: what song would be, you know, I was thinking of
S2: Australia's national songs in quotes like, what are the what
S2: are they going to play Men Down Under, like the anthem? Maybe.
S1: Maybe people want the school to start just with a
S1: rendition of the anthem every day.
S3: Yeah, I like, I reckon if, if I had to
S3: choose like a famous Australian song to really get me
S3: jazzed to go and do geography and like, please play
S3: this in the final edit like, whoa, Black Betty. Blam blam.
UU: Blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam. Damn thing gone. Wow.
S3: That would fuckin bang. That would be amazing. Way to get.
S2: Jazz. I thought you were gonna pick Paul Kelly gravy song.
S3: No. Again, that's, like, too much of a but yeah,
S3: Black Betty that you're, like, going into class and you're, like,
S3: keen to learn Sweet Caroline.
S2: That could get the singing.
S1: I think one of the, one of the things that
S1: wasn't really emphasized as much in a lot of the
S1: reporting on this is the school, as you said, Thomas
S1: was playing like Happy and Ben Lee. But it's reconciliation
S1: Week at the moment, and I think they wanted to
S1: play an indigenous artist. And it's sort of interesting, isn't it?
S1: Because to your point, Mel, like on one hand, this
S1: is clearly not really about hip hop. Well, the dad's
S1: complaint wasn't I don't like rap music. It was I
S1: don't like the way that these artists are talk or
S1: this particular artist birds is talking about, you know, white
S1: people invading Australia, but it's like it's reconciliation. We're going
S1: to play indigenous artists, but it seems to be. Can't
S1: they just sing about nice things? Like, why does it
S1: need to be something that is actually about their experiences
S1: and livelihood? And I feel like that fits into a
S1: pretty like regular trope about the way that not just Australians,
S1: but like every kind of majority culture treats artists from
S1: marginalized backgrounds. It's like you can make music but don't
S1: actually talk about your experiences, because that's kind of confronting.
S1: But what I find even more strange about this, when
S1: the education minister is like schools should not be a
S1: place of division. I mean, schools are taught about colonization,
S1: like these things are discussed in primary schools. So there's
S1: like that side to it. And yeah, I agree with
S1: you that it's not really about hip hop, but it
S1: was very interesting how quickly the politicians made it about
S1: hip hop. Like Chris Minns and Mark Speakman, the opposition leader,
S1: were like, rap just doesn't belong in schools, which seems
S1: like a it seems such a bizarre sentence to say
S1: out loud. It feels like these guys understanding of hip
S1: hop is a little bit like in the past, hip
S1: hop has been the biggest genre of music ever. Like,
S1: it just is odd to me to say that does
S1: not belong in a school. This is what young people
S1: listen to.
S3: Yeah, it felt that felt like a just a weird
S3: kind of like drive by moment to have another crack
S3: at hip hop and be like, oh yeah, rap is bad.
S3: And it's like, man, now you're just embarrassing yourself. Like,
S3: had this been a song by Neil Finn that mentioned, like,
S3: you know, White Devil, would they like their furore be
S3: the same? Um, as I said, I do live in
S3: the area and it is an area of like pretty mixed, like,
S3: you know, backgrounds and stuff. Lots of Italians, lots of Greeks. Um,
S3: so yeah, it is interesting and like, you know, I've
S3: got lots of friends whose kids go to San Souci
S3: Public School and Ramsgate Public School and yeah, I'm perhaps
S3: maybe they should have done, like a Nick Skitz mix
S3: or something. Yeah.
S6: Skitz mix to welcome kids to school. That's wild.
S2: I think. Yeah. The linking to hip hop is completely insane,
S2: like part of a school's role should be to teach
S2: students how to understand modern media and pop culture, like
S2: giving them media literacy is a fundamental skill that we
S2: should teach in school, so to be like a whole
S2: genre is not appropriate is wild.
S3: But I just think as well the funny, like not
S3: funny but maybe sad thing and like, you know, we've
S3: already done the kind of non disclaimer, but it just
S3: feels like there's such a copy and paste pattern. Now
S3: for when stuff like this flares up, there's like an
S3: incident around something racial. And then like whoever is concerned, like,
S3: gets on the phone to Ben Fordham at two GB,
S3: which is obviously a really easy way to blast it
S3: out and trigger a culture war. Like it's become a
S3: I feel like every 2 or 3 weeks now, we're
S3: having a conversation about something like this, and it happens
S3: in the exact same way. Yeah.
S1: And I mean, like, you know, talkback radio, this has
S1: been a part of it for a long time. And
S1: this is how talkback radio works. There's a concerned citizen
S1: angry about an issue. It gets litigated like that's on
S1: one hand that's like sort of just like how it works.
S1: It's just interesting how quickly politicians buy into it. Like,
S1: I feel like there's a world in which politicians just say,
S1: that's a matter for the school. Or they say, like, look,
S1: maybe there's something about how we educate kids on colonization.
S1: But also, I'm the premier. I don't really want to
S1: talk about hip hop. Being played at a school like
S1: that just doesn't feel like it needs to go that
S1: big so quick. And to your point, it feels like
S1: that is happening regularly. But yeah, I mean, I don't
S1: really like it seems like this song is not going
S1: to be on the playlist of schools in New South Wales,
S1: and maybe they should go back to bells or whatever,
S1: but I don't want to name the school because I
S1: want to get this parrot in trouble. But like someone
S1: was telling me that they, their kids do a module on, uh,
S1: Briggs's January 26th, which is also a very like, intense
S1: song about the impacts of colonization on indigenous people. That's
S1: a very popular song. Birds was signed by Briggs to
S1: his label Bad Apples. Bird sort of sees himself in
S1: that sort of similar vein. So this is like a
S1: part of Australian music culture now, an indigenous culture. This
S1: is where a lot of indigenous artists are finding the
S1: space to tell their stories, that they've not really been
S1: allowed to tell for a very long time. So I
S1: kind of hope this doesn't turn into.
S4: A.
S1: Massive culture war about, well, rappers aren't allowed to talk
S1: about their views on colonization. That's offensive and divisive in Australia.
S1: This is kind of the point of their storytelling.
UU: Shoreline caught me coming. I cross my heart, I take
UU: it from me. My army ain't gonna wanna try. Oh, my.
S1: Okay, so one of the movies that I think all
S1: three of us have been very, very, very excited about
S1: comes out this Friday on Netflix. It's the latest film
S1: by Richard Linklater, probably best known for the before trilogy
S1: starring Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy. He also directed school
S1: of Rock, Dazed and Confused, and Boyhood. Hitman is based
S1: on a true story written by journalist Skip Hollandsworth in
S1: The Texas Monthly magazine back in 2001. No.
S7: No, no, I don't buy it. What? You're not a hitman.
S7: You can't be. Mentally looking you up at nothing. It's
S7: like you don't even exist.
S8: I guess I'm just your fantasy.
S7: So what's the biggest difference between the real you and
S7: your occupation?
S9: By the way, my name is Gary Johnson, and I'm
S9: a fake hit man. The film is.
S1: Co-written by Linklater and Glen Powell, who was also the
S1: star of the film alongside Adria Arjona. The movie's about
S1: a part time undercover police officer in New Orleans who
S1: poses as a hit man to arrest people trying to
S1: hire him. Things get complicated for this pretend hit man
S1: when he meets a woman who tries to hire him
S1: to knock off her husband. Kind of takes the movie
S1: in a much more thrilling and, like, pretty damn sexy direction.
S1: It was really interesting watching this movie off the back
S1: of our conversation about 1999 movies, because I feel like this,
S1: from its premise to its execution, is exactly the kind
S1: of movie, sort of stylish, mid-budget drama rom com that
S1: we used to get heaps of back in the day,
S1: and we keep saying we want more of these kinds
S1: of films. I thought it was really, really great. I
S1: think it does a really interesting job at subverting your
S1: expectations of what a movie called hitman is going to
S1: be about. It's like not an action packed thriller, but
S1: it is still really entertaining and really fun. It's way
S1: more of an examination of ideas around identity, trying to
S1: find meaning and purpose in life, who we are as
S1: people versus what we project outwards to others. Add to
S1: that this kind of dash of sexy rom com vibes,
S1: courtesy of the very, very, very great performances by both
S1: Powell and Arjona. I think ultimately you just have. Yeah,
S1: like I said, a fun, exciting, thought provoking film. And
S1: my only wish with it is that. It was coming
S1: out in cinemas. I feel like this would be such
S1: a great film to watch with a group of people
S1: in a movie theater. I also think it would make
S1: a lot of money in a year where movies are
S1: otherwise struggling. But yeah, when it was playing at the
S1: film festival circuit getting rave reviews, big studios just didn't
S1: offer much up and Netflix snapped it up for a
S1: cool $20 million. So I want to talk to you
S1: guys about all of that a little bit later on.
S1: But initial takes on hitman. How'd you guys find it?
S2: I completely agree with you. I thought it was very funny, smart.
S2: It's a very tight film. It sweeps you up with
S2: its self-assuredness and it really carries you away. And there
S2: are continual plot shifts that are really surprising and keep
S2: you interested in the film the whole way through. Um,
S2: so I had a great time watching it.
S3: Yeah. Look, I really liked it too. Um, I will
S3: admit that my upon first watch I like it had
S3: a big weekend, and so I think I was watching
S3: it in the wrong frame of mind. So I enjoyed
S3: it as we kind of like, briefly discussed off air,
S3: but I was like, oh, okay. And then now having
S3: like sat back on it and also, I think kind
S3: of being in a bit of a Linklater headspace, I
S3: actually do really, really appreciate this movie. It's much cleverer
S3: than I was probably prepared for. Like, you know, like
S3: on a hungover Sunday evening. Um, I still have big
S3: question marks around Glen Powell, as you know, kind of
S3: the savior of the leading man. But I think in
S3: terms of like Linklater bringing his skill set and his,
S3: like thematic approach into a new, especially like the Netflix format,
S3: like he's he's kind of snuck in one of the
S3: most interesting films of the year, like onto a streaming
S3: platform that millions of people will watch.
S1: I think that's a really good way of putting it.
S1: I think the movie is so smart in how it
S1: rewards like a casual watch or a sort of more
S1: engaged watch. I think a lot of people can just
S1: watch this movie and see to hot people, like, be
S1: in this sort of fun, sexy film. But then the
S1: more you think about it and the more you watch,
S1: you're like, oh, this movie is really saying a lot
S1: of fascinating things about being at a certain stage in
S1: your life about, you know, this, this question of how
S1: do we create an image or an idea of ourselves
S1: and how does that sit with who we really are
S1: versus the person we want to be in different sorts
S1: of situations? I think, like, I want to talk about
S1: the Glen Powell thing because the movie does hinge on him.
S1: He's like the coward. He's the star. He's the driving
S1: force behind the movie. At the beginning. He's this kind
S1: of daggy uni lecturer moonlighting as an undercover cop. This
S1: is also a hilarious thing about America, where you can
S1: be a part time undercover cop while you're a.
S6: Because it's based on.
S2: A true story.
S6: Yeah, I.
S1: Know, I know what a.
S3: Only in America would they be like. Yeah, yeah. Once
S3: you're done. Like, you know, teaching philosophy. Can you come
S3: and moonlight as an undercover? So weird.
S6: I wish all.
S2: Cops knew philosophy.
S1: Um, probably something with, like, budget cuts. They can't afford
S1: full time police or something. Um, but, yeah, he has
S1: to adopt so many different personas in this movie, both as, like,
S1: the primary character, but also the conceit of the film
S1: being he disguises himself as different versions of a hit
S1: man to try to entrap or capture the people that
S1: that he's going after. I think he was awesome in this.
S1: Like I, we discussed this last week. I'm a big
S1: fan of Glen Powell. You know, he was discovered in
S1: a way by Richard Linklater as well. He cast him
S1: in Fast Food Nation, and then he got his big
S1: starring role in Everybody Wants Some, um, which I'm very
S1: keen to chat to you guys about. I did a
S1: bit of a Linklater rewatch over the past week, and
S1: that is such a great movie, and he's really good
S1: in it. He's in two of the biggest movies last
S1: couple of years, Top Gun Maverick and Anyone But You.
S1: This is a role which I think he gets to
S1: be a bit more interesting and also have a lot
S1: of fun. I thought he was awesome. What did you
S1: guys think Tom is? You still not totally convinced by
S1: the Powell hype machine?
S3: I am definitely not convinced. Also, I just think it's
S3: so funny because obviously we spoke about Glen Powell last week.
S3: That list, you know, The Hollywood Reporter list of ten,
S3: you know, hot new things in Hollywood. A friend of
S3: mine texted me afterwards because Osmond spoke at length about
S3: his admiration for Glen Powell. And a friend of mine
S3: texted me after I was like, I honestly thought you
S3: were talking about Glenn Close. Why is Osmond so obsessed
S3: with Glen Powell? And I was like, look, man, I
S3: couldn't agree with you more. I mean, that.
S1: Says more about you and your weird friends. Glen Powell
S1: is a big star. He's in twisters, which is one
S1: of the biggest movies of the year coming out this year.
S3: Now he is like, I mean, he, I, I know
S3: who he is. I don't get him in Glenn Close
S3: confused anymore. But I still just think, you know, he
S3: was good in this. I just I still just don't
S3: really get it from him. And, I mean, I am
S3: increasingly aware that I am in the minority, like, you know,
S3: who am I to tell Richard Linklater, who to put
S3: in his new great movie? But I just think the
S3: movie is good and his performance is still really good,
S3: but I still like, look at him and just find
S3: him not super engaging. When I think about the like
S3: leading men or women that I really love to watch
S3: and who I could watch, like really do anything, he
S3: does not fall into that category for me.
S2: I thought he was great in this, and he did
S2: co-write it with Richard Linklater as well.
S3: When it says he co-wrote it, is that is he
S3: like the Affleck in that situation? No, I.
S1: Don't think it's interesting because when you see Linklater's talked
S1: a bit about the story of the film coming together
S1: and he read that article. So Linklater is a Texas guy. He,
S1: you know, famously shoots and works and lives in Texas.
S1: A lot of his movies are set in Texas, and
S1: Texas is like a big character in his films. Uh,
S1: Powell's also from Texas, from Austin. But obviously different generation.
S1: And so Linklater is like, I got this call during
S1: the pandemic from Glen Powell. And he's like, hey, man,
S1: you've got to read this Texas Monthly article. And Linklater
S1: is like, yeah, I read that when you were like
S1: in grade six, like, what are you talking about, man? Like,
S1: this is like a very famous story from when you
S1: were a child and like, it's a pandemic and we
S1: just didn't really have anything to do. And so we
S1: spent a few years working around. And how did we
S1: take this true story? And then they ended up changing
S1: quite a few bits of it. So now when the
S1: movie opens, the title card is like, it's somewhat true
S1: because I took a fair few liberties to have a
S1: bit more fun. It does feel like he was a
S1: bit more like hands on with this. Um, but Mel,
S1: that was a bit of an aside. I cut you
S1: off as you were about to share your powers. As
S1: you're about.
S3: To character assassinate Glen Powell. Come with me.
S2: I thought he was really good in this. I thought
S2: he was very funny, and I thought his character was
S2: really good. The name Gary gave me so much joy.
S2: Like just the fact his name is Gary brought every
S2: time it was mentioned, it was kind of used humorously.
S2: And there's a.
S1: Gag about it, right? Where someone's like, your name's Gary's, like,
S1: I know, I know.
S6: Yeah.
S2: I thought that was very funny. There's this great shot
S2: early on where Glen Powell is in his home, and
S2: he's at this tiny table for one, because he lives alone.
S2: He drives a Honda Civic, and I love that he waters.
S2: He's like plants and he's feeds his fish before he
S2: has his own dinner. I just thought the character was
S2: really good. And as the hitman roles he takes on
S2: get progressively more and more insane, I thought they became
S2: funnier and funnier. And so I was won over by
S2: Glen Powell. I agree with you. Last week I wasn't
S2: sold on him as a as an actor, as a vibe.
S2: Now I'm completely on the Glen Powell train.
S3: Yeah, but this is the thing. I also said he's
S3: good in it and I thought he was he was
S3: good in it. But like is this. And because I
S3: think a lot of the narrative around this movie is
S3: that this is the star making role for Glen Powell.
S3: This is the Glen Powell project that's gonna like really like,
S3: you know, send him into the stratosphere. And I still
S3: just don't think it will. Like not because he was
S3: bad in it, but just because I don't know if
S3: he has that in him. Um, that's kind of my
S3: take on it. Even though I thought he was, like,
S3: funny and stuff. Like, it's not the same feeling I
S3: get when I was watching, like Prime Gosling or Prime
S3: Pitt or Prime DiCaprio.
S1: I think there's something about Powells performances, and his general
S1: sort of way of being is that it feels effortless
S1: when he's acting like it just sort of feels like
S1: he's just come in from backstage and he's just doing him,
S1: and maybe there's a bit of that that is like,
S1: he's not really going for it. He's not inhibiting something.
S1: But I think he kind of is. And I think
S1: in this movie he does play these different characters. It's
S1: almost like a movie that is clearly partly designed to
S1: let him show off his acting chops and not just
S1: be like the hunk that he was and anyone but
S1: you or the, you know, the fighter pilot and Top
S1: Gun Maverick. But yeah, I can. I understand what you're saying, Thomas,
S1: because you he doesn't feel like he's doing something like
S1: Brad Pitt or even like Ethan Hawke at their prime,
S1: where they're really seriously acting, and they've been to the
S1: Lee Strasberg acting school and they're going for it. And
S1: he's probably picking roles that are still a little bit
S1: within his comfort zone. He hasn't been pushed yet, but
S1: I feel like this is an example of his ability
S1: to really show off a wider range. And I think
S1: like the other thing about this film, and this goes
S1: to your point, Mel, about the way that he's character
S1: is so fleshed out, like we find out about his job,
S1: we find out about the car he drives. He's got
S1: these two cats. He has an ex-wife who comes in.
S1: This is a one hour and 55 minute movie. It's
S1: pretty tight, and you just don't get that kind of
S1: script writing or character building in so many films, particularly
S1: films on streamers, characters are just like two dimensional kind
S1: of cardboard cutouts. They play this role, whereas in this movie,
S1: every character, even characters that are just in it for
S1: a minute, you just get such a sense that they
S1: are real and have a real life, and they've reached
S1: this point in their career, and that's why they're doing X, Y,
S1: and Z. It's really remarkable how much it manages to
S1: pack in.
S2: Yeah, totally. And that is absolutely the joy of watching
S2: a Richard Linklater film is the dialogue is so incredible
S2: and touches on so much. It's a way of like,
S2: we don't speak like Richard Linklater's characters speak, but he
S2: still manages to make it seem authentic and real. And
S2: there are so many one liners in this that make
S2: you laugh out loud without feeling like they're a one
S2: liner joke. It's very subtly funny.
S1: So this movie is a bit of a two hander.
S1: The other main character, Adria Arjona, mentioned before, briefly. Had
S1: you guys seen her in anything before this film?
S3: No, literally never seen her before, ever. But it was
S3: like very much a quick Google to be like, what's
S3: she been in? She was very, very good. Yeah.
S2: I think this is definitely another star in the making.
S1: Yeah, she I only seen her in this movie six underground,
S1: which came out a few years ago and, and all
S1: the Star Wars show, which she's got like a small
S1: but pretty good role. She was awesome in this. And
S1: the chemistry between the two of them was like, off
S1: the charts. It reminded me of one of my favorite films, uh,
S1: out of Sight Soderbergh film with JLo and Clooney. And
S1: the way that it sort of they're on these opposing sides.
S1: It's like a romance that isn't supposed to happen, but
S1: it slowly starts to burn. And it does had a
S1: lot of those vibes in this film. Yeah, I think
S1: she totally killed it. Yeah, because.
S3: She really like for that specific character, you know. You
S3: have to really nail that. Like, is she playing him
S3: like up until the, you know, towards the end when
S3: it becomes clear what is going on. Like you're really
S3: not sure of her intentions. Um, and because, you know,
S3: Paul's character is so like, it's all kind of there. Um,
S3: I thought she was such a good foil for him.
S3: And just like the way, you know, she would like
S3: certain look, she would have or certain ways she would
S3: word stuff like, I feel like she really kept both
S3: audience and Paul's character. Like, what? What is her intention here? Yeah.
S2: She constantly managed to pull off that shape shifting sense.
S2: And there was always the playfulness was in there, miscommunications
S2: with each other. So you are always on the edge
S2: of your seat, but not in an uncomfortable way about
S2: who's playing who and where the film's going to go.
S1: We've talked a bit this year about the role of
S1: sex in cinema and, you know, movies like challenges being
S1: called like the sexiest movie in a while and bringing
S1: sex back to cinemas. And we talked about how there's
S1: like no actual real explicit sex scenes in that this movie,
S1: it's not really been sold as like a super sexy movie,
S1: but it feels, again, like a bit of a throwback
S1: to kind of sexy thriller in the 90s where there
S1: was like a bunch of sex and it just sort
S1: of is there, and it's normal for it to be there.
S1: And it, you know, makes sense in terms of the characters,
S1: arcs and whatever. I'm a bit surprised that they're not
S1: pushing like the rom com angle as much, because that
S1: is such a way to get people to watch a movie.
S1: But were you guys surprised by how steamy this kind
S1: of got?
S2: Look, I don't this will upset you because I know
S2: you guys probably loved the sex scenes. I thought it
S2: was a bit excessive. Not in terms of, like, don't make.
S1: Us sound like.
S6: 14 year old boys. Well, like, have.
S1: You edited by saying it was important to the story
S1: and the.
S6: Characters?
S2: Why not? Because of the Graphicness or anything like that.
S2: There was just a lot of it that kind of
S2: felt like unnecessary. Like I almost got it after the
S2: first two moments of passion, and then it kept going
S2: and going and going, which I didn't mind, but I
S2: just didn't think it was really essential to the meet.
S2: Cute that this film actually is beneath the thriller angle
S2: of it. So I don't know. I think you could
S2: have cut some of that and you wouldn't have lost anything. Like,
S2: I just felt like the point was being hit home. Yes,
S2: we get it. These people have amazing chemistry over and
S2: over and over again.
S3: Are you saying Linklaters in his creepy era now?
S6: I don't think it's creepy.
S2: Like, I understand it's fun to watch, right? But, you know. Yeah,
S2: I think it was almost too much.
S3: I was fine with it. Um.
S6: But, you.
S3: Know, they're both, like, super hot Glen Powell, like, you know,
S3: hasn't like, you know, he's still been hitting the gym
S3: obviously post anyone, but he looks amazing. Uh, I really
S3: love her. And, um, was happy for them to be, like,
S3: nude on screen together. Also, I thought it was like,
S3: you know, all jokes aside, ha! Thomas is gross. But like,
S3: I did think it was kind of important to the
S3: characters because they then start to build in these, like,
S3: you know, there is there's this whole thing about the
S3: signing of the contract when they're like making, you know,
S3: these like rules within their relationship that are kind of
S3: related to sex and also the kind of strange framework
S3: they have to exist in because of the, you know,
S3: what's going on in the movie. Like everything played into
S3: the development of these two. So I thought it was
S3: like fun. And again, like especially off the back of,
S3: you know, we spoke a lot about sex last week
S3: because of the 1999 thing. This did feel like a throwback.
S3: And and yeah, I mean, it's just it's just part
S3: of the formula. Yeah.
S1: And they're kind of, you know, their, um, interactions, role
S1: play features pretty heavily. And I feel like that's not
S1: even the subtext. It's a subtext. And the text of
S1: the film is the roles that we all play in,
S1: in the world when we're going on a first date,
S1: when we're meeting someone, when we're at home versus at
S1: work and in the bedroom. And I feel like it.
S1: It's interesting that link light is like, no, we're going
S1: to go there. This is how, you know, like in
S1: some some scenes, we should say that Powell's character is
S1: an academic who lectures on like philosophy. And there are
S1: some scenes where they cut to him in the classroom
S1: and he's like, this is the point of the movie.
S1: You know, these ideas of Freudian ideas of, you know,
S1: the ID and the ego and the superego and whatever.
S1: That is what we're discussing. And maybe that was like
S1: a little bit too hand-holding, but it kind of worked
S1: for me. And, and I think it it helped you.
S1: It probably nudged you a bit. Maybe there are some
S1: rule philosophy heads that are like, I just didn't need that.
S1: I got it. But I think for the kinds of
S1: people who are going to be watching this on a
S1: Sunday afternoon on Netflix or whatever, it helps push you
S1: into thinking about those themes of the film, those themes
S1: of identity and who we are and who we try
S1: to be, which have been part of Linklater's work for,
S1: for since day one, basically. And there's this opening scene
S1: where one of his students lays out, I think, Linklater's thesis,
S1: she's like, you know, this quote that you've just recited
S1: is about seizing the day, making the most of life,
S1: just going for it. And that is a part of like,
S1: Dazed and Confused. It's a part of Everybody Wants Some.
S1: It's part of this movie. But it was also really
S1: interesting because this constant thematic focus on you can create
S1: your own version of yourself. You can be whoever you
S1: want to be. Do you want to be a hitman?
S1: Do you want to be a teacher? Do you want
S1: to be a sort of like, you know, a gangster,
S1: a hitman? Do you want to be a kind of
S1: nerdier one? Do you want to be this country bumpkin?
S1: It just felt not disconnected from current conversations we're having
S1: in society about identity, and whether it's set for you,
S1: or whether you get to choose who you are in
S1: terms of your sexuality, your gender identity, whatever. And it
S1: was interesting hearing Richard Linklater on a New York Times
S1: podcast be like, yeah, no, that's exactly what I was
S1: trying to get across. Like, I think it's one of
S1: the most fascinating bits of our current moment that we've
S1: trying to have the conversation around you. You are who
S1: you tell people you are. And that's what I wanted
S1: to do with the movie. I found that a really
S1: fascinating part of it.
S2: Yeah, I think that's so true. And it's probably worth noting, too.
S2: It does where these philosophical underpinnings very lightly. Like on
S2: one hand, you can imagine this being studied in a
S2: philosophy class, but you could also watch this and not
S2: really consider it at all, like it doesn't feel heavy handed.
S2: And as well as an assessment on the mutability of
S2: the self, an ongoing interest of philosophers, I. Really sold
S2: this as a take on cinema as well, because it's
S2: really in deliberate dialogue with films about hitman and the
S2: fantasy of cinema. And as the self is unravelling, so
S2: is the cinematic role of the hitman, because there are
S2: really deliberate. Jokes or winks to things like John Wick
S2: and Pulp Fiction and Leon the Professional, the killer, Leroy, Texas.
S2: They all kind of are snuck in there, and the
S2: different hitman plots and the different hitman characters are really
S2: played with. And so I thought, as much as a
S2: film about individuality and the self, this was a film
S2: about cinema. Yeah.
S3: And it's funny because I, you know, I think we've
S3: obviously all been like deep in, in Linklater land and,
S3: you know, this is a guy who, when he was
S3: getting his start in film, was seeing 650 films a year,
S3: which is like that's like near farooqi levels of cinema numbers.
S1: He's posting up, man. That's crazy.
S3: Like, but like he would go and see three and
S3: four films a day and he talks about, you know,
S3: like in I think the same New York Times interview
S3: he talks about, oh, look, people are always kind of
S3: heralding the death of cinema and, and it's always under
S3: attack from everything, you know, like, as it has been
S3: for years and years and years. But I did think
S3: that was interesting too, because like the hitman genre has
S3: gone through so many kind of different changes and I
S3: would say has been in a bit of a like
S3: there's been a renaissance of it off the back of
S3: like the John Wick's and stuff, but there's so many
S3: like kind of funny and like sharp observations, you know,
S3: in this film, even at the very start, there's like
S3: a lot of voiceover from power. But he talks about
S3: how like everyone thinks there are all these hitmen out there,
S3: but like, no one actually knows any because they don't
S3: really exist. And I just thought that was like very,
S3: very funny kind of getting in, you know, I guess
S3: a bit of Linklaters like thoughts on, on like cinema
S3: and the changing nature of it, but also like this
S3: whole concept of the hitman that we're so obsessed with
S3: in pop culture. But like, is it something we've just
S3: kind of created for ourselves?
S1: Yeah, I love that read on the movie. And it
S1: is sort of this acknowledgement in a way, of this
S1: trope that is like driven cinema since the 50s. But
S1: I think even earlier, I think some of the first,
S1: like hitmen genres and films were in the 30s. Linklaters like, I'm,
S1: I'm reflecting on what this era was when cinema was
S1: great and I'm sort of like stripping it apart and
S1: being like, this is all bullshit and lies and everything
S1: that you grew up thinking is real is based on
S1: movies telling you stuff, and that's not really what's going on.
S1: There's even this montage at the start of the movie.
S1: I love when films just break the fourth wall like Babylon,
S1: the ending of Babylon, where it's just like a two
S1: minute montage of every big film going back 100 years
S1: is one of my favorite things I've ever seen in
S1: a movie theater. I cried and I clapped. Um, and
S1: then he does it to Stewart. He's just, like, literally
S1: referencing the history of hitmen in cinema's hitmen. Feels like
S1: a weird word to say, the plural of hitman. But
S1: I was going to ask you guys why. Why is
S1: this renaissance happening like it was last year? We were
S1: talking about the killer. It's funny to have a movie
S1: called The Killer by like, David Fincher, one of the
S1: biggest directors who came out of that indie movement in
S1: the 90s. Linklater another one coming out of that, using
S1: the idea of a hitman to explore these bigger questions
S1: about the way the world works. Because we talk about
S1: the killer. That's not really a movie about a hitman,
S1: that's a movie about being a gig worker in the
S1: modern capitalist world. This movie is not really about being
S1: a hitman. It's about being a guy in his like,
S1: 40s trying to figure out where the hell he's at.
S1: What is it about that kind of character that makes
S1: it so ripe for these sorts of interrogations.
S6: I.
S3: Guess, where, like, I don't know, we're now more than
S3: ever kind of similar to what we were just talking
S3: about in terms of identity. I feel like we're very
S3: much all like, kind of fixated or obsessed or forced
S3: into thinking about, like, you know, the self. And so
S3: like the our sense of self and who we are
S3: in the modern world. And that's such a different thing
S3: to so many people. And it feels like for lots
S3: of people, you know, the rules are changing on who
S3: we are or who we can be or what identity is.
S3: And maybe because like a hit man at its purest
S3: form is like someone who is paid to take someone
S3: else out. It feels like a big kind of like, um,
S3: you know, like an easy way to represent a conversation
S3: around that. Like, I don't know, it is funny that,
S3: you know, these important directors who do grapple with a
S3: lot of these big themes seem to be revisiting it
S3: and revisiting it like, I don't know, will we get
S3: some kind of weird, I don't know, like You're a
S3: Hit Man by Baz Luhrmann, like some kind of fantastic
S3: musical number or you guys, you.
S1: Guys have a hired a hit man?
S3: Not recently.
S2: But it is one.
S3: You would actually be quite good. You'd be the.
S2: Yeah, go under the radar. I'd have the Glenn Powell
S2: kind of. Yeah.
S6: You would. Yeah. No one no one ever suspects you.
S3: That's right.
S1: Have you ever hired a hitman?
S2: Uh, not at this stage, but I won't rule it out.
S2: You guys are.
S1: Being so cagey. I feel like there's a very straightforward answer.
S6: To say.
S1: No, I don't know any. I've not heard one, and
S1: I wouldn't. You're like, I don't want to rule it out. Yeah, but.
S6: You're on the record.
S1: Saying, I would definitely not commit this crime.
S3: Yeah, but I mean, like, you don't really want to, like,
S3: admit it to the person that you've hired them for.
S6: Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay. I mean.
S2: Don't you think the hitman embodies the state of the
S2: modern individual? That alienation? It's a it's a solo. I mean,
S2: I'm thinking this is the spot, but work with me here.
S2: This is what you were.
S3: After when I answered and you went. We got to
S3: wait till. Mel.
S6: Yeah, yeah, it's a solo job.
S2: It's a very lonely job, isn't it? It's a job
S2: where you are a body for hire by a corporation
S2: or a person that you're often not have any links
S2: with any kind of personal responsibility between which many of
S2: us feel like in the modern workplace. And it's a
S2: very violent job. I think it's probably come back into
S2: fashion because The Hitman is something we can all relate
S2: to in our contemporary society.
S1: I wonder whether part of it is also these directors,
S1: at this stage in their lives, see a little bit
S1: of themselves in these characters. I think someone like Fincher,
S1: who has made these like really fascinating, independent, wacky movies,
S1: but has also worked in the commercial world and made
S1: ads and sort of, you know, done big studio features
S1: as well. I feel like he was putting a lot
S1: of himself in that character, like even to the point
S1: where at the start of that movie where Fassbender is
S1: looking down the scope of the gun and he's just
S1: talking about, I've got to get that shot. You've got
S1: to get the framing right on that shot. Get the
S1: zoom right, you've got to get fuck, I missed the
S1: shot like that. Just feels like you could, word for word,
S1: make that about a director making a movie. And I,
S1: you know, it's often about, like, adopting, entering a new world,
S1: like creating new characters, figuring it out as you go along,
S1: like improvising all that sort of stuff is feels like
S1: the language directors use. So I think maybe at this
S1: point they're kind of also making movies about themselves a
S1: little bit potentially.
S3: Yeah. But I mean, with that being said, Linklater in
S3: some ways would be an awful hitman because it took
S3: him fucking 12 years to make boyhood. It's like really
S3: putting in the hard yards, like to make his, you know,
S3: his official kill. I suppose.
S2: You got to bide your time to make a good.
S6: Hit. Exactly.
S3: Osman, have you ever hired a hitman?
S1: I've never hired a hitman. See? Easy to.
S3: Say. Be a lot cooler if you did.
S6: So.
S1: Very quickly. Want to talk about this question of where
S1: this movie is being released and where most people will
S1: watch it. And I feel. I feel a bit conflicted
S1: about this because we all love cinema. We love going
S1: to the cinema. The movies are having a tough time
S1: this year. I think this film could be like a
S1: box office success if it was released in theaters. It
S1: just feels like it has that energy. It's short, you know,
S1: like a lot of different people can come into it
S1: from different levels, as we've discussed. But on the other hand,
S1: like Netflix is massive, so this movie will probably get
S1: seen by more people, by being on the biggest streamer
S1: in the world than it would if it was just
S1: in the movie theater. But sometimes I wonder, like, you know,
S1: something like anyone but you. When a movie is released
S1: in the theaters, it creates this huge buzz. So even
S1: if you don't see it, then, like you, Thomas, you
S1: know that it's a big feature. You know, people are
S1: going to see it. Then it hits streaming a couple
S1: of months later and it has this second life. I
S1: kind of feel like that's how this movie could have worked.
S1: But am I just like in my head about this
S1: stuff because I think about box office too much? Do
S1: you guys think it matters where people end up seeing
S1: this film?
S3: No, I kind of tend to agree. I think this
S3: film and like the message will get diluted because it
S3: just is exclusively on Netflix in much the same way. Like,
S3: you know, as I admitted at the top of this,
S3: like when I watched it, I was like a bit
S3: hungover and stuff, and I was like, okay, this is
S3: like a fun Netflix movie. But I do think a
S3: lot of people will probably like, digest it in that way.
S3: Whereas if it was at the movies and then when
S3: you've got it as like, you know, a Linklater film,
S3: he doesn't make heaps of movies. It would kind of
S3: like become more an event to people and then like,
S3: it gets a bit of buzz around it, and then
S3: by the time it hits streaming, it's like already got,
S3: you know, it's kind of trajectory. Whereas the fact that
S3: it's just going to like Land on Netflix this Friday,
S3: I don't know, like I think some people will be like, oh,
S3: it's like another Netflix movie, like, you know, one of
S3: the Ryan Reynolds ones, or like, it's just going to
S3: be it could like accidentally end up in that category,
S3: which is a shame.
S2: Yeah. I think like increasingly in the future, we're going
S2: to see the types of films that have a cinema
S2: release versus the type that have a streamer release really
S2: polarized to me. This film was made for Netflix. The plotting,
S2: the shots, the pacing, all of it felt right for Netflix. Yes,
S2: it would have been great in terms of the box
S2: office to get more people into the cinemas to see it,
S2: but I think it works really well as a Netflix
S2: at home movie, and I also think it's a huge
S2: benefit for the film that so many people are going
S2: to be able to see it, and I think it's
S2: going to cut through in a much bigger way than
S2: it would have if it had just been at the cinema,
S2: because we'll be all able to talk about it, access
S2: it and see it.
S3: But don't you think when people because like, because like
S3: Netflix movies have become such a like kind of genre
S3: unto themselves, people will like watch it with already I guess,
S3: an idea of what it is in mind and then
S3: maybe miss, I guess, like some of the best parts
S3: of the movie or miss what the movie really is saying.
S2: Well, potentially it sets the bar too low for the film,
S2: which it will then over exceed expectations, particularly having a
S2: name like Linklater attached to a film. Maybe it's about rebranding,
S2: or maybe that's what Netflix is doing. Rebranding what? A
S2: Netflix film is by getting a great director and a
S2: quality film.
S3: I wonder what he thinks. I haven't really seen anything,
S3: but he thinks.
S1: He's not particularly impressed with the situation. It's sort of
S1: funny because Netflix is his sugar daddy here, but he's like,
S1: we took it to these, uh, film festivals, I think
S1: premiered at Venice. It got a huge reaction. And the
S1: studio is just like weren't interested in it, which feels
S1: like a massive miss from them when everything else is
S1: sort of failing to launch right now. Why wouldn't they?
S1: I think the movie cost $11 million and Netflix bought
S1: it for $20 million, which is not a crazy amount
S1: of money. And he's trying to tell people to watch
S1: because I think in the US it's getting a couple
S1: of weeks in theaters. He's like, please try and watch
S1: it there. It's like, good on him for like taking
S1: the Netflix bag and then also saying, go to movie
S1: theaters and watch this. Don't watch this at home. I yeah,
S1: I guess I just hope that people watch it. I
S1: think I think there's a risk. I mean, the killer
S1: was like a top tier movie by a top tier
S1: director that didn't really, like become a phenomenon on Netflix. Mank, which,
S1: you know, the movie that I always talk about.
S6: Is also like just.
S1: An awesome movie that is sitting there on Netflix. So
S1: there's a there is there is like a world in
S1: which this doesn't hit. But I think unlike those movies,
S1: which are pretty self-serious and a bit darker, you can
S1: see the title card of this, right? Like Glen Powell
S1: and Adria Arjona and they're they're like kissing or whatever.
S1: And people are like, fuck yeah, let's go.
S3: Smells like, oh, yuck. Like what they really should have
S3: done is like, it should have been the reverse situation
S3: for this and for Guy like for guy belongs straight
S3: on Netflix. And this if had they given this maybe
S3: if they fucking shot it on the Harbour Bridge I
S3: don't know. But like if they, if they had given
S3: this like the big, you know, studio push that fall
S3: guy got like the quality. It feels like it's the
S3: wrong way around.
S2: Yeah. I thought a lot about the fall guy when
S2: I was watching this. And before when you were talking
S2: about Powell not being a Ryan Gosling, I kind of
S2: think he could be a Ryan Gosling and Ryan Gosling's
S2: so-called funny era. Like, I could see Glen Powell being
S2: in Barbie, being in fall Guy.
S1: Yeah, it's crazy that they paid like $180 million to
S1: make fall Guy. And no one's like, should we, like,
S1: outbid Netflix by $2 million and have, like, a very
S1: cheap $11 million movie that could make $150 million?
S2: Yeah, I think all the signs are in place that
S2: this will hope will take off on Netflix. It's getting
S2: really great. Early reviews. The Glen Powell is a man
S2: of the moment, not Glenn Close. And yeah, and Richard
S2: Linklater is a huge name who doesn't put out a
S2: stack of films. So it will be really interesting if
S2: this doesn't cut through because yeah, I think that will
S2: be something we should revisit because if it doesn't make
S2: it through, it will be saying something.
S1: If it doesn't make it through, we should just like
S1: pack up the podcast and.
S6: How it.
S3: Is so funny though, like having obviously thinking about Linklater
S3: so much, like we talked about, um, you know, funny
S3: IMDb back catalogs last week. He's got like when you
S3: look at his collection of films, they're quite odd altogether,
S3: like in a row. Yeah.
S1: Let's have the Linklater conversation, because I don't think we've
S1: really talked about it much on the podcast. And like
S1: I said, I was doing a bit of a rewatch.
S1: I'm like, wow, low key. Maybe like my second favorite
S1: director after Soderbergh. It is such a fascinating and diverse.
S1: And like you said, Tom's weird filmography. His most recent
S1: film before this is this animated feature, Apollo ten and
S1: a half, which is like also has Glen Powell in it.
S1: It's about like a kid watching the space race is.
S1: I haven't seen it. I don't know if you guys
S1: have seen it, but. It throughout our probably most formative years,
S1: like the late 90s, the early 2000, Linklater was making
S1: either these like coming of age or very existential and
S1: like movies that philosophy borrows. Like you, Thomas at uni
S1: probably loved to watch and like talk to girls about.
S1: And just like has in hindsight made some of the
S1: best movies you know, in the past like 50 years.
S1: What were your relationships like to. To his work either
S1: either growing up or now.
S3: I talked about before sunset on a lot of first dates,
S3: if I'm being honest. Um, just as a way of
S3: getting that in there. No, I like and I rewatched
S3: that movie last night. I know it has become a
S3: kind of like, you know, almost a punchline for a
S3: certain type of person. It's still a great movie. I like, I,
S3: I think one of the, one of the movies I
S3: remember crying in quite openly was boyhood. Like, I thought
S3: that was an incredible feat of filmmaking. Like, I still
S3: reckon I could watch that movie and be, like, kind
S3: of messed up by it. Um, but then, but then, like,
S3: school of Rock is a fucking hilarious studio comedy, like
S3: with Jack black, probably in his best role. Like, it's. Yeah,
S3: I mean, it is funny, like thinking back about it,
S3: I would say he's like, in my kind of top,
S3: top five directors of all time. Like, he he has
S3: a beautiful kind of collection of work. And also I
S3: think and I think this might be true for both
S3: of you, his specific style, his like, so, you know,
S3: like the way he kind of picks up threads of
S3: conversations that you have in real life and puts them
S3: in movies, and it just feels so natural. Like that's
S3: very much the type of thing we're all into. We're
S3: all like, obviously big talkers. And so I just like
S3: love how well he captures the human condition. And yeah, um,
S3: I don't know, Before Sunrise trilogy, it's all just kind
S3: of there for me.
S2: Yeah. I also love the the boldness of the vision.
S2: Shooting the Before Sunrise films over such a long period
S2: of time. Boyhood over 12 years. The film he's working
S2: on now, I think is over 20 years. Right? Yeah.
S1: Merrily We Roll Along into Sondheim musical that I think
S1: is like set over 20 years. But he's like, he's cast, uh,
S1: Paul Mescal and he's going to film them over 20 years. Um,
S1: and I think the story, Merrily We Roll Along is
S1: sort of in reverse chronological order. So it's a fascinating project.
S1: I kind of am very interested to see if it
S1: works out. But he did it with boyhood.
S2: Yeah, exactly. And he'll be 80 by the time he
S2: finishes that. It does add something different and interesting to
S2: the films when you're getting these snapshots over time. I
S2: love his style. I think he's really interested in the
S2: fleeting moments, and it's kind of reflected in the plotlessness
S2: of a lot of these films, or even the subjects
S2: like Dazed and Confused, which are these teenagers kind of
S2: moving around. So whether he's in his more sentimental or
S2: funny phase, that interest in moments of time and coincidences
S2: and what can be and isn't and could be that
S2: runs through them all. And I really like that.
S1: Yeah, it's interesting how his films either like set on
S1: one day like the before trilogy or days confused or
S1: like over the space of decades. He's very interesting how
S1: he can, like, use time in that way. And I
S1: don't think it's cringe. Thomas, to say you like the
S1: before trilogy. I think maybe people made fun of people
S1: like us in uni, because we tried maybe to turn
S1: every first date into that experience. Um, but they're really good.
S1: And particularly the second one before Sunset. It's like ten
S1: years on, Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy had more of
S1: a role in writing it. This is like just around
S1: the time or just after Ethan Hawke's separation from Uma Thurman.
S1: So there's so much like personal conflict poured into that,
S1: and it is super entertaining and super interesting and super
S1: thought provoking. I really love his kind of autobiographical cool,
S1: like dudes rock films like Dazed and Confused, which is
S1: McConaughey's breakout. Like, that is an awesome movie. And then
S1: a movie that I hadn't watched, believe it or not,
S1: until this weekend, is it's called, like, the spiritual successor
S1: to Daisy, confused, Everybody Wants Some. Dazed and confused is
S1: set in the 70s in Texas. This is set in 1980,
S1: and it's like a character very loosely based on Linklater,
S1: who goes to college on a baseball scholarship, and it's
S1: just set. Over the course of five days. He moves
S1: into this frat house and it's just before class starts.
S1: And it's there's a lot of echoes of this film
S1: in hitman, where it's about a young kid being exposed
S1: to these new ideas, these new kinds of music, new
S1: fashion styles, and trying to figure out who he is, like,
S1: who am I in this new world? I've come from
S1: this small town. Am I a punk? Like, that was
S1: kind of fun, but I'm actually like a country guy.
S1: I'm going to the Soul Train kind of disco nights.
S1: I want to like, meet girls. But what version of
S1: myself do I show off to do that, to kind
S1: of get all of those ideas and what is just
S1: like a teen comedy and kind of like a stoner
S1: comedy is really, really impressive. Um, and then he also
S1: has this other dynamic. I don't know if you guys
S1: have seen Bernie, the Jack black film. There's a really funny,
S1: interesting movie that is also based on a Skip Hollingsworth article. Uh,
S1: the guy who wrote the Hit man story about a
S1: real story about a funeral, uh, like Undertaker who ends
S1: up murdering a very wealthy older woman and taking her money.
S1: And it's very funny, and it's very, like, kind of
S1: dark in certain ways. And I feel like with Hit Man,
S1: what he's done. This is I promised you guys the
S1: grand unified theory of Linklater. I think. I think with
S1: Hit Man, he's taken the sort of fun vibe stuff
S1: that is always talked about independence and identity and what
S1: it means to be human. And he's merged it with
S1: the kind of more crime focused, like, how does America
S1: really work? Like, what are the systems that operate, and
S1: why do certain Americans do these things? And how do
S1: people end up on wrong sides of lawyers, brought them
S1: together in what is a pretty tight little package in
S1: this film. And I don't know if Merrily We Roll
S1: Along will ever come. Often. I don't know how many
S1: more movies he makes, but if this is like his,
S1: you know, putting it all in there and it's like
S1: his peak, it's a pretty fucking good peak for him
S1: to to go out on.
S3: Yeah. It's such a shame that he cast Paul Mescal though.
S3: I mean of all people. Yeah it is, it is
S3: like it's a very impressive kind of career. And you
S3: know he I think what you said he'll be in
S3: his 80s by the time he finishes. Um, and you know,
S3: there is obviously he's been doing the press rounds to
S3: promote this and he's talked about how like, oh, but
S3: I'd love to be making movies until, you know, I'm
S3: in I'm in my 90s, which is very impressive. But
S3: it is funny, like talking about obviously this obsession with
S3: identity and everything. And even now, like in his whatever,
S3: he must be in his 60s now and he's making
S3: films still exploring that concept. And he spoke about in
S3: an interview that I read recently like, well, like, do
S3: you I think the interview asked him, do you find
S3: that you're still searching for your identity? He's like, oh, look,
S3: to be honest, I think I've probably found it. And like, really,
S3: that is like I'm a film director, like I am
S3: my most myself on set. And do you think then
S3: if you look at like the Linklater filmography as a whole,
S3: like he's trying to tell us that you can eventually
S3: find who you are, are we supposed to find who
S3: we are or it doesn't really matter. And you can
S3: keep trying on new things, even into your 60s and
S3: 70s and 80s.
S2: Yeah, I think that was the hit man. Kind of
S2: ended at the point that you can be whoever you
S2: want consistently, and remaking yourself is part of the experience
S2: of human life, that we're constantly coming of age. And
S2: the idea that you have to be one thing always
S2: and that you're not going to change. I think it
S2: was questioning that because as we as we've seen Glen
S2: Powell's complete transition over the course of the film, I
S2: think the end result is, yeah, you can be whoever
S2: you want to be.
S3: So that means I'm 35 today. I can cut this
S3: like it's like a do a refresh.
S6: Yeah, yeah. Who do you want to be? You're a
S6: denim jacket, dude. Now, I know.
S3: Maybe I might become like the bookish guy of the pod.
S3: I will become like the philosopher. Maybe we can do
S3: a switch up like a Freaky Friday.
S2: I'm excited to embody my.
S6: Every.
S1: Every episode. We should just reinvent our personalities. In honor
S1: of Richard Linklater. That's a very beautiful, uh, summation ummul
S1: of the the way that he's been in dialogue. This
S1: movie's in dialogue with a lot of his earlier films.
S1: If I had to hitman esque put a gun to
S1: your guys heads and say, tell me your favorite ever
S1: film by Richard Linklater, what would you say?
S2: Um, I, I'm going to say Before Sunrise. I still
S2: love it. I think about it a lot. It's the
S2: way it's this epic film, but it's told so intimately.
S2: And I don't know if you remember, there's this scene
S2: when Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy, they put on a
S2: record and it's a Kath Bloom song, and it's this
S2: really long shot, and they're kind of looking at each
S2: other and then looking away, and it's so awkward, but
S2: it's so much possibility and potential. There's all this unspoken
S2: ness in the silence. I, I think I know, as
S2: we were saying before, that, you know, it's now got
S2: a reputation of being a bit naff and it's a
S2: bit of a punch line sometimes, but I still think
S2: it's a really spellbinding film that manages to do it
S2: without being treacly, sentimental.
S3: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's an amazing series and kind
S3: of Osmond like you touched on before, it really made it. Okay. Um,
S3: in my broker years to just make dates where you
S3: just walked around for hours and it, it made it
S3: less cheap and more kind of romantic. But you were broke.
S1: Because you kept flying them to Vienna. I think that
S1: was the problem.
S3: Very good. Uh, I also love those films, but I
S3: would go with boyhood. Um, I remember being really, like,
S3: really properly blown away by the first time I saw that. And,
S3: you know, I was a boy once. Um, and, and
S3: so I think it like, it did really speak to
S3: me and just like, you know, I love films about
S3: family dynamics. I thought the in terms of a feat
S3: of filmmaking, it was so impressive. Um, Ethan Hawke, obviously
S3: such a long time Linklater collaborator, was incredible in that.
S3: And so was Patricia Arquette. Uh, yeah. I think, you know,
S3: it's we don't get many pieces of art that really, like,
S3: go so deep into helping us think about these things. Um,
S3: just the pure like effort he put into it really, like,
S3: takes you on that journey. And yeah, boyhood for me
S3: will always be an important film.
S1: Great recommendations. I think I got to go with Dazed
S1: and Confused, his second film. It's just like the amount
S1: of stars in that movie Ben Affleck, Parker Posey, Matthew McConaughey. Like,
S1: it's crazy. And it's just like, what happens? Nothing. But
S1: is it fun? Is it awesome? Do you think a
S1: little bit about, like, being nostalgic for a time that
S1: you never lived through? Like, that's the crazy thing about
S1: that movie. I want to go back to the 70s
S1: and my American high school and just drive around with
S1: my friends and, you know, just hang out and smoke
S1: weed and drink beer and play pool. I never fucking
S1: did that. I didn't live in America in the 70s.
S1: But he makes you want to do that in a
S1: way that is genuinely beautiful and very funny. And it's awesome.
S1: And watching that next to everybody wants some. I just
S1: think you're not gonna have a better four hours than,
S1: than doing that.
S2: Yeah, I agree, and there are so many great scenes
S2: in Dazed and Confused, the kind of whole conversation about,
S2: is it Barbara Bush that they have? Yeah, yeah.
S6: Yeah, yeah.
S2: It's uh, it's a great film.
S3: Yeah. And he gave us McConaughey, which is really like
S3: the gift that keeps on giving.
S1: Absolutely. Um, okay, so time to wrap up the show
S1: with our Impress Your Friend segment. We'll. We recommend something
S1: we watched listen to read otherwise consumed in the wake
S1: of culture. I'll go first. It's a cheat because I
S1: have been very both busy and ill and have just
S1: watched Richard Linklater films for the past week, so mine
S1: is a theme that we've referenced a couple of times
S1: on this podcast. It's an interview that Richard Linklater did
S1: with The New York Times for their The Interview podcast.
S1: It's a really interesting format. They basically do this big
S1: interview with a personality that chalerm and the God on
S1: a couple of weeks ago, and then they check back
S1: in with that person, like a few days later after
S1: something's happened and just get their delayed reactions to the
S1: things that they talked about. It's a really interesting format.
S1: It's a cool interview series, and the Linklater one is
S1: just like, really wonderful. Even if you haven't seen the
S1: film yet, it's great, but I think it reaches like
S1: another depth of meaning when you've seen the film and
S1: you understand what he's talking about, what he's trying to do.
S1: So that's my rec.
S3: Yeah, it's really cool in that interview. Exactly that how
S3: it works. Because he asks him a question I think
S3: specifically about, like, do you still enjoy movies in the
S3: same way as you did back in your era, when
S3: you would watch 600 a year? And he gives a
S3: kind of, you know, an answer in the first interview,
S3: and then when they catch up a few days later,
S3: he kind of comes to him and he's like, hey,
S3: I really like, you know, sat on that question and
S3: I feel like I didn't give the question the answer
S3: it deserves. So like, I love how they do that
S3: kind of split interview and like, you kind of get
S3: like a different sense of the person a few days later.
S3: And I also.
S2: Think Richard Linklater in all these interviews, just comes across
S2: as a great guy. And Dennis and I were talking
S2: earlier about how his whole aesthetic, he kind of seems
S2: like the guy who should be a sound engineer at. Yeah,
S2: at a gig. Yeah, yeah, he's just none of the
S2: pretension of an auteur, which, you know, sometimes is fun,
S2: but he just seems like a good human, too.
S6: Yeah.
S3: No, he seems like a cool guy. I'm into him, obviously.
S1: Um. Thomas, what have.
S3: You got for us? Uh, my one, this is actually
S3: this one you can impress your friends with next week
S3: when this comes out, but it's actually the new standard.
S3: Everything must go from Hannah Einbinder from hacks. Now, look,
S3: I would say hacks. I don't know about you guys,
S3: but everyone in my circle is, like, really watching and
S3: loving season three.
S1: Absolutely. Yeah.
S3: It's like, you know, season three can be a tricky
S3: time for comedy shows. I feel like hacks is like
S3: leveled up again. It's just been renewed for season four,
S3: which you can watch on Stan. Um, I haven't seen
S3: her do stand up before. Um, I got sent the screener.
S3: It's very, very funny. She talks, you know, about her faith,
S3: her obviously, her sexuality, her family. You know, her parents
S3: went to, like, insane lengths, you know, kind of doing these,
S3: you know, like, rituals and recommendations to try and have
S3: a boy. And they had her and she tells some
S3: really funny stories about that. She's kind of having a
S3: moment right now anyway. But that's, uh, Everything Must Go,
S3: which hits binge, uh, on Thursday, June 13th. But I'm
S3: telling you now, it will impress your friends when you
S3: watch them and tell them to watch it, too.
S1: She plays Ava on Hacks.
S3: Yes, she plays Ava, the young, kind of like comic.
S2: Yes, she's very good. And you've also been reading a
S2: book that we talked about on the pod when you
S2: were away? Yes.
S3: All fours by Miranda July. Fuck me. It's amazing. But
S3: not only that. Oseman, I've been meaning to tell you this.
S3: I am reading Mel's copy, which has been like, oh my.
S1: God, dog eared. There's notes in.
S3: There. Oh my God, the underlining is so revealing. Um, also,
S3: there's like all these I need like a legend to
S3: read it because, like, there's like arrows here and then
S3: like squiggles here and then like, must revisit. It's like,
S3: so stressful to read Mel's notes. She's having like, as
S3: I get deeper into the book, she's having like, a breakdown.
S6: This is.
S2: Why I did not.
S6: Want to give you this book. Why can you can
S6: you pass.
S1: It on to me when you're.
S6: Done, please?
S2: No, no. Yes. This is like the inner workings.
S1: But to your credit, Mel, and to your defense, rather,
S1: I should say you were interviewing Miranda July. Right? So
S1: presumably this was like note taking, or is it just
S1: something you do, like you're reading Little Women and you're like,
S1: God damn, that fucking line.
S6: Has never hit harder.
S2: The fact you picked little women, I mean, I've got
S2: to give you I've got to give you credit for that. Uh, no,
S2: it was in preparation for the interview. That's not my
S2: normal reading habit. But you are right, I do have.
S2: I have worked out such a good system that you
S2: really do need a legend to understand what the different signs,
S2: symbols and things mean.
S3: There's a lot going on. But the book, uh, you've
S3: obviously read it. Uh, Osman. It's amazing. Lots of people
S3: I know are reading it. Um, so I don't need
S3: to recommend it to anyone because I feel like it's
S3: out there. But yes. Um, as someone who's often considered myself,
S3: you know, worthy of working at a Hertz rental car service,
S3: I really I really enjoy it.
S1: Nice one. Um, Mel. Lucky last. What have you.
S6: Got?
S2: Well, if I got to do the Glenn Powell switcheroo
S2: and kind of had my time again, I often think
S2: I would love to be an art historian or an
S2: art curator, so I often read a lot of books
S2: about art. The one I've read at the moment is
S2: called The Story of Art Without Men. It's by Katy Hessel,
S2: who was at the Sydney Writers Festival just recently. She's
S2: an art historian, a presenter, she's a curator. She's got
S2: this great Instagram page, um, and a podcast called The
S2: Great Women Artists. She's done a history of Western art
S2: movements from the 1500s to the 2020s. It's a really
S2: nicely engaging, like it's very readable. It's not an austere
S2: art history book, and it's kind of a response to
S2: the classic chronicle, The Story of Art. It was published
S2: in 1950, and it was only recently updated to include
S2: one woman in it. So it's almost a response to that. Wow.
S2: It's a beautiful book. My own. Issue is its hardback
S2: gloss pages. It is so heavy. I'm like working out
S2: every time I read it. Or at least are there like.
S6: Pictures of.
S1: Art in it? Is it like pretty inside?
S2: There are. It's very pretty. Lots of pictures to keep
S2: you engaged. Did you know.
S1: That in 1989, less than 5% of the artists in
S1: the modern art sections of British galleries are women, but 85%
S1: of the nudes were women.
S2: Wow. I didn't know that specific statistic, but it makes
S2: it stacks up.
S1: That I read that in a review I just pulled
S1: up of this book, so it sounds very interesting.
S3: That's actually Osman keeps a blog about statistics around nudes.
S2: Well, I will uh, this one. I haven't made notes
S2: in it because I preserved the sanctity of this art.
S1: Hard copy books. I feel like you can't. Like it feels.
S1: That feels wrong.
S3: Yes. And can I just say it would not be
S3: a book recommendation without me discussing the cover? It's been
S3: sitting on Mel's desk. This cover will look hectic on
S3: your Instagram. It's big and yellow with like blocky text.
S3: It's a very cool cover. So yeah, even if you
S3: want to buy it but not read it or you
S3: get bored by it, it's definitely worth, um, posting about.
S2: Yeah, you can impress your friends without actually having to
S2: do any work.
S6: We need to.
S1: Add a section to this, which is just what Tomas
S1: recommends for you to post on your Instagram without having
S1: consumed to just seem.
S6: Cool. Exactly.
S3: Sorry my love.
S1: Mel and Thomas take it Thomas, have a great rest
S1: of your birthday. Up the blues.
S3: Yes thank you. I will let you know what my
S3: new identity is.
S6: Happy birthday, big T!
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong.
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share the episode
S1: with a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui. See you next week!