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S1: Hey, I'm Usman Farooqi and this is the drop a

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S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,

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S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of

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S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Mel Schembri and

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S1: Thomas Mitchell. How are you guys doing?

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S2: We're here with birthday boy Thomas Mitchell. Big day. Wearing

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S2: his new birthday boy jacket.

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S1: Thank you. Is that. Is that a birthday jacket? You

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S1: look very handsome. Yes.

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S3: Some fresh gear. It's like, you know, when you get

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S3: stuff for your birthday, you just wear all of the

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S3: new stuff at once. I thought I would do that

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S3: just to get it out of the way. And I

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S3: knew that I would have this exact conversation with Mel.

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S3: As soon as I walked in.

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S2: He walked in with a birthday glow, his new jacket on.

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S2: You're just having a great day, aren't you?

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S3: So far, so good. Yes.

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S1: Thank you for coming in on both your birthday and

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S1: your week of leave. Very much appreciated.

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S3: It's it's a pleasure. Always happy to talk with you guys. Uh,

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S3: and yeah, it feels pretty good so far. Sadly, though,

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S3: I did like, as much as I woke up and

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S3: I was like, this is great. I'm having a great time.

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S3: One of my first thoughts was like, I will never

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S3: be on the SMH young novelists list now.

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S2: Uh, 35 and under. So you could still. Yeah. So

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S2: this is it.

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S1: This is your last year. You've got to write the book.

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S1: You've got 12 months.

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S3: All right. Well the work begins today guys.

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S2: I mean, you've still got the Miles Franklin and the

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S2: Booker to aim for, so don't feel too disheartened.

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S1: It's not the only significant event today. We recording this

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S1: on Wednesday, which is the morning of the best sporting

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S1: event of the year, game one of State of Origin.

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S1: By the time this comes out on Thursday, we will

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S1: either be devastated or ecstatic and honestly, probably most likely

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S1: devastated as as Blues fans. But how are you guys feeling?

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S1: You nervous? You're excited. You're full of dread.

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S3: Well, I was just curious. Mel, what do you think

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S3: about the new halves combination for the Blues? And also

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S3: obviously McGuire coming in for Fittler?

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S2: Okay, you've hit me with a hard question. I you

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S2: know I love sport, rugby league. I was into it

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S2: when I was younger because my dad was a huge

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S2: Bulldogs fan, and I don't know if I've ever told

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S2: you this story. I actually wrote Braith Anasta, the first

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S2: fan mail he ever received.

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S1: I think you've told us this story on the podcast.

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S2: On the like. Yeah. So that is my like all

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S2: of my, all of my knowledge of NRL is based

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S2: from like the 90s. So I'm or the early 2000

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S2: best era to be honest. If you want to talk

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S2: about Luke Bert Hindmarsh magic. Yeah, yeah yeah. Daryl Halligan

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S2: I think was he in the Bulldogs. Yeah. Good. Good kicker.

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S2: Oh you know that's I can talk about that but

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S2: current latrine Latrell Mitchell but.

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S3: Uh latrine Mitcham. He didn't get picked sadly.

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S1: I don't think there were any bunnies in this squad

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S1: are there. It's not.

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S3: Good. No. Probably fair, though, to be honest. Osborne, I

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S3: know that breaks your heart, but, uh, look, I would

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S3: say lots of my rugby league friends have been, uh,

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S3: not very enthusiastic, but I walked past our esteemed colleague

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S3: Andrew Webster, um, rugby league journalist, legend. And he said

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S3: to me with a wink in his eye, Blues by four. So, wow.

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S3: Let's see.

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S1: You heard it here first. Well, actually, by the time

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S1: you hear this, it will be last and you will

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S1: know what will have happened. Yeah.

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S3: Queensland by 60.

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S1: Thomas, I know you'll be watching you at home with

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S1: the family tonight. Are you going to be out and about?

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S3: Uh, no, I'm going to stay at home. Uh, just

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S3: like my wife's gonna cook a meal and then. Yeah,

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S3: watch the game, and it'll be all very wholesome.

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S2: And. Will you have a.

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S3: Cake as I scroll through the Forbes 30 under 30?

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S3: Just with absolute hate in my eyes. And, Mel.

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S1: You know, you said you don't really follow, uh, NRL

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S1: very closely, but will you be watching the game?

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S2: I reckon I'll have it on in the background, because

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S2: it does amuse me when I watch it. And the

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S2: state of origin, I feel, is very heightened tension, which

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S2: I enjoy. So I think I'll, uh, I'll keep an

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S2: eye on it.

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S1: We, we haven't actually mentioned, but just in case people

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S1: think this is like a paid for bit by our employer.

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S1: So the game is on nine, which is the company that, um,

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S1: that owns our paper as well. We're not saying it

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S1: because of that reason, but I thought in case people

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S1: pulled me up on it, I should just acknowledge that, uh,

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S1: just in case.

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S3: I watch nine most nights anyway, just because the programming

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S3: is great, the content is amazing. And also it's like,

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S3: what else would you watch?

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S1: You're not getting that pay rise, dude. Uh, look, today

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S1: on the show, we're going to be talking about one

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S1: of our most anticipated film releases of the year. It's

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S1: hit man. And we're also going to be talking about

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S1: the work of its director, Richard Linklater. I think, fair

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S1: to say, someone who means a lot to all of us,

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S1: particularly during formative periods of our lives when some of

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S1: his biggest films were released. But before we get to

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S1: Hit Man and Linklater, it's a bit of news that

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S1: I wanted to unpack with you guys. When you guys

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S1: were at school, what sound did they use to signify

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S1: the beginning of the school day?

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S3: Bring. Melanie actually went to the same school, by the way,

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S3: just for those listening. Yeah.

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S1: So you should be able to answer this.

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S3: I'm going to throw to you. Well Mel was like

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S3: much I mean this also won't surprise anyone. Mel was

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S3: much more into school. Um, she was.

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S2: The school into the school bell.

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S3: Yeah, but you just, like, I can't remember, basically. So

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S3: I'm sure you. Was it just like.

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S1: A standard bell or do they play some sort of.

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S1: You know, it was just.

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S2: A standard bell.

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S3: Right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think there was anything fancy.

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S1: Weirdly enough, at my school in year six, they played

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S1: Coldplay's yellow, uh, to signify, which is like pretty hectic, um,

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S1: pretty like downer of a song to signify the start.

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S1: I don't know what teacher was having a midlife crisis

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S1: and was like, this is how we all kind of

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S1: too young to really understand what the significance or, you know,

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S1: the depressive nature of that song. But really odd in hindsight.

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S3: It would have been better if they'd played The Scientist

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S3: and you all walked backwards into the room like I didn't.

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S2: Even know this was a thing. I thought they were standardized.

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S2: I didn't know you could just play a song. I

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S2: would have campaigned for that as part of the SK.

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S3: Yeah. Got another angry letter from the cubby coat.

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S1: Well, this week there's been a story that is at

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S1: the juncture of the primary education system and music in particular,

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S1: hip hop music. Uh, a school in Ramsgate, which I

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S1: believe is like your guy's part of town.

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S3: Yeah, that's. I live, like one suburb over, and it's

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S3: basically the local primary school for us. And I can

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S3: confirm that the Sanssouci like, kind of private Facebook group

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S3: for the area has been, like, lit up the past

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S3: 24 hours. Wow.

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S1: All right, well, let's let's talk about what is going on.

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S1: So that school has also been using a song to

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S1: mark the beginning of the school day. It uses different songs,

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S1: but lately they've been playing a track by indigenous rapper Birdz.

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S1: The song is called Bagelen Bargain. It was released in 2021.

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S1: That year it came number 30 in the hottest 100,

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S1: so it's like a fairly popular song.

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S4: Hey, patiently waiting for someone I ain't never seen before.

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S4: They say he's a captain of men. But they believe

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S4: in our love.

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UU: From the land of the white sky. He's self-righteous a

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UU: murder without license. Oh, with the spirit I'm the nicest

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UU: thinkin that I might just.

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S4: Wait till night.

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S1: One parent, though, was not very happy about the choice

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S1: of song. He went on to GB and said he

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S1: thought that this was inappropriate to play to children because

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S1: of the way it discussed colonisation, and white people in particular.

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S1: The song was actually written as part of a documentary

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S1: examining the anniversary of Captain Cook's arrival in Australia, and

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S1: it's written from the specific perspective of a Butchulla warrior

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S1: standing on K'gari Island, formerly known as Fraser Island, witnessing

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S1: cook and the colonists sail past. The language that got

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S1: this parent particularly upset was a reference to Cook and

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S1: British colonists as white devils. This became a big political

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S1: issue when the Education Minister in New South Wales weighed

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S1: in and said the song's lyrics were, quote, very concerning,

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S1: it's very.

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S5: Concerning and I'm going to have to ask the department

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S5: to obviously come back to me on what has happened here, because,

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S5: I mean, we've been really consistent. I've been really consistent.

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S5: Schools are not places for things like that. Anything that

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S5: creates any sort of division we can't have in our schools.

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S5: So I'm going to have to get onto this ASAP.

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S5: This morning.

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S1: The department apologised for any distress caused by the playing

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S1: of this song and has counselled the Ramsgate principal over

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S1: their song selection, their playlist making abilities. The New South

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S1: Wales premier, Chris Minns, said he didn't believe any kind

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S1: of rap was appropriate for schools and the opposition leader

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S1: in New South Wales, Mark Speakman, said he didn't want

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S1: young children exposed to what he described as inflammatory hip hop.

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S1: Now it's a fair bit going on, uh, with this one.

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S1: To me, it immediately felt like the latest chapter in

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S1: what feels like a pretty big moral panic of a

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S1: hip hop happening right now in Australia, particularly in New

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S1: South Wales. We've talked about it a bunch on the show.

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S1: The Easter show has banned the playing of hip hop

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S1: after some violent incidents there. One for the drill rap

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S1: group that we've spoken about a fair few times, have

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S1: announced the national tour. The one city that they're not

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S1: playing in is Sydney. There still seems to be this

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S1: kind of fear or this association. Of hip hop music

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S1: with violent incidents. This is interesting because it's slightly different.

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S1: It's not really about gang affiliations. It's an indigenous rapper

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S1: talking about their perspective on colonization, and that being seen

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S1: as being threatening to to some white parents, it seems.

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S1: What did you guys make of this? What's the Facebook

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S1: vibes on this one, Thomas?

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S3: I mean, you can kind of imagine what vibes on

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S3: like suburban Facebook groups typically are. Uh, you know, it's

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S3: it basically is boomers kind of like up in arms

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S3: about it. Uh, I don't know. For me, it's a

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S3: kind of tricky one, I think, because, well, like, I

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S3: guess like very firstly, I do find the playing of

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S3: a song just a bit weird anyway, and you really

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S3: open yourself up to like, these exact kind of problems

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S3: where then you, like, accidentally trigger a culture war because of,

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S3: like people disagreeing like I did. I have seen that elsewhere,

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S3: like previous songs that they have used have been like

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S3: we're all in This Together by Ben Lee, or they

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S3: did Happy by Pharrell.

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S1: Yeah, yeah.

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S3: Like these are very different vibes. Like, I just think like.

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S3: And I also do think the idea or the image

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S3: of the Ramsgate principal being counselled by the Department of

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S3: Education is very funny. Like, do they sit him in

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S3: a room and, like, play this song like noise torture

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00:09:49,510 --> 00:09:52,330
S3: or something? But yeah, I don't know, like I, I

224
00:09:52,330 --> 00:09:55,030
S3: kind of like I can, I can see why parents

225
00:09:55,030 --> 00:09:58,720
S3: have complained. Not that I agree with like the complaint itself,

226
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,550
S3: but I mean, you play a rap song to a

227
00:10:00,550 --> 00:10:02,199
S3: bunch of kids and you're going to annoy some parents,

228
00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:03,760
S3: like it's just a reality.

229
00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,729
S2: Yeah, I reckon it's less about hip hop and more

230
00:10:06,730 --> 00:10:09,850
S2: about the the nature of the way that the artist

231
00:10:09,850 --> 00:10:13,570
S2: is talking about colonization. I don't really comprehend how this

232
00:10:13,570 --> 00:10:17,650
S2: song is so divisive. It's about indigenous sovereignty, the endurance

233
00:10:17,650 --> 00:10:21,130
S2: of indigenous culture, questioning of terra nullius. It's about, um,

234
00:10:21,130 --> 00:10:23,679
S2: it starts and ends with indigenous language, which has been

235
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:28,390
S2: recognized as important in preserving indigenous culture. And this is

236
00:10:28,390 --> 00:10:31,240
S2: essentially what they should be talking about in history class.

237
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,490
S2: So I think rather than, you know, there should be

238
00:10:33,490 --> 00:10:36,190
S2: a teaching moment for them to discuss all the concepts

239
00:10:36,190 --> 00:10:38,859
S2: in this song. And then I was kind of thinking like,

240
00:10:38,860 --> 00:10:41,800
S2: what song would be, you know, I was thinking of

241
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,040
S2: Australia's national songs in quotes like, what are the what

242
00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,460
S2: are they going to play Men Down Under, like the anthem? Maybe.

243
00:10:48,460 --> 00:10:50,140
S1: Maybe people want the school to start just with a

244
00:10:50,140 --> 00:10:51,910
S1: rendition of the anthem every day.

245
00:10:51,910 --> 00:10:54,310
S3: Yeah, I like, I reckon if, if I had to

246
00:10:54,309 --> 00:10:56,679
S3: choose like a famous Australian song to really get me

247
00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,770
S3: jazzed to go and do geography and like, please play

248
00:10:59,770 --> 00:11:02,979
S3: this in the final edit like, whoa, Black Betty. Blam blam.

249
00:11:04,990 --> 00:11:10,660
UU: Blam blam blam blam blam blam blam blam. Damn thing gone. Wow.

250
00:11:11,860 --> 00:11:14,110
S3: That would fuckin bang. That would be amazing. Way to get.

251
00:11:14,110 --> 00:11:16,689
S2: Jazz. I thought you were gonna pick Paul Kelly gravy song.

252
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,699
S3: No. Again, that's, like, too much of a but yeah,

253
00:11:18,700 --> 00:11:21,130
S3: Black Betty that you're, like, going into class and you're, like,

254
00:11:21,130 --> 00:11:23,319
S3: keen to learn Sweet Caroline.

255
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:24,579
S2: That could get the singing.

256
00:11:24,580 --> 00:11:26,740
S1: I think one of the, one of the things that

257
00:11:26,740 --> 00:11:28,810
S1: wasn't really emphasized as much in a lot of the

258
00:11:28,809 --> 00:11:31,120
S1: reporting on this is the school, as you said, Thomas

259
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,929
S1: was playing like Happy and Ben Lee. But it's reconciliation

260
00:11:34,929 --> 00:11:36,760
S1: Week at the moment, and I think they wanted to

261
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,600
S1: play an indigenous artist. And it's sort of interesting, isn't it?

262
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,819
S1: Because to your point, Mel, like on one hand, this

263
00:11:42,820 --> 00:11:44,800
S1: is clearly not really about hip hop. Well, the dad's

264
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,140
S1: complaint wasn't I don't like rap music. It was I

265
00:11:47,140 --> 00:11:49,780
S1: don't like the way that these artists are talk or

266
00:11:49,780 --> 00:11:52,450
S1: this particular artist birds is talking about, you know, white

267
00:11:52,450 --> 00:11:56,439
S1: people invading Australia, but it's like it's reconciliation. We're going

268
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,599
S1: to play indigenous artists, but it seems to be. Can't

269
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,939
S1: they just sing about nice things? Like, why does it

270
00:12:00,940 --> 00:12:03,760
S1: need to be something that is actually about their experiences

271
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,280
S1: and livelihood? And I feel like that fits into a

272
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,690
S1: pretty like regular trope about the way that not just Australians,

273
00:12:10,690 --> 00:12:13,900
S1: but like every kind of majority culture treats artists from

274
00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:16,479
S1: marginalized backgrounds. It's like you can make music but don't

275
00:12:16,510 --> 00:12:19,060
S1: actually talk about your experiences, because that's kind of confronting.

276
00:12:19,059 --> 00:12:22,000
S1: But what I find even more strange about this, when

277
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,040
S1: the education minister is like schools should not be a

278
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,970
S1: place of division. I mean, schools are taught about colonization,

279
00:12:27,970 --> 00:12:31,810
S1: like these things are discussed in primary schools. So there's

280
00:12:31,809 --> 00:12:34,030
S1: like that side to it. And yeah, I agree with

281
00:12:34,030 --> 00:12:35,290
S1: you that it's not really about hip hop, but it

282
00:12:35,290 --> 00:12:37,510
S1: was very interesting how quickly the politicians made it about

283
00:12:37,510 --> 00:12:40,510
S1: hip hop. Like Chris Minns and Mark Speakman, the opposition leader,

284
00:12:40,510 --> 00:12:43,360
S1: were like, rap just doesn't belong in schools, which seems

285
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,939
S1: like a it seems such a bizarre sentence to say

286
00:12:45,940 --> 00:12:48,730
S1: out loud. It feels like these guys understanding of hip

287
00:12:48,730 --> 00:12:50,980
S1: hop is a little bit like in the past, hip

288
00:12:50,980 --> 00:12:55,720
S1: hop has been the biggest genre of music ever. Like,

289
00:12:55,929 --> 00:12:58,660
S1: it just is odd to me to say that does

290
00:12:58,660 --> 00:13:00,580
S1: not belong in a school. This is what young people

291
00:13:00,580 --> 00:13:01,240
S1: listen to.

292
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,190
S3: Yeah, it felt that felt like a just a weird

293
00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:05,950
S3: kind of like drive by moment to have another crack

294
00:13:05,950 --> 00:13:08,110
S3: at hip hop and be like, oh yeah, rap is bad.

295
00:13:08,110 --> 00:13:10,240
S3: And it's like, man, now you're just embarrassing yourself. Like,

296
00:13:10,420 --> 00:13:13,240
S3: had this been a song by Neil Finn that mentioned, like,

297
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,240
S3: you know, White Devil, would they like their furore be

298
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,429
S3: the same? Um, as I said, I do live in

299
00:13:18,429 --> 00:13:21,880
S3: the area and it is an area of like pretty mixed, like,

300
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:26,110
S3: you know, backgrounds and stuff. Lots of Italians, lots of Greeks. Um,

301
00:13:26,110 --> 00:13:28,510
S3: so yeah, it is interesting and like, you know, I've

302
00:13:28,510 --> 00:13:30,340
S3: got lots of friends whose kids go to San Souci

303
00:13:30,340 --> 00:13:33,460
S3: Public School and Ramsgate Public School and yeah, I'm perhaps

304
00:13:33,460 --> 00:13:35,290
S3: maybe they should have done, like a Nick Skitz mix

305
00:13:35,290 --> 00:13:36,310
S3: or something. Yeah.

306
00:13:36,910 --> 00:13:40,330
S6: Skitz mix to welcome kids to school. That's wild.

307
00:13:40,750 --> 00:13:44,340
S2: I think. Yeah. The linking to hip hop is completely insane,

308
00:13:44,340 --> 00:13:46,950
S2: like part of a school's role should be to teach

309
00:13:46,950 --> 00:13:50,189
S2: students how to understand modern media and pop culture, like

310
00:13:50,190 --> 00:13:53,190
S2: giving them media literacy is a fundamental skill that we

311
00:13:53,190 --> 00:13:55,710
S2: should teach in school, so to be like a whole

312
00:13:55,710 --> 00:13:58,589
S2: genre is not appropriate is wild.

313
00:13:58,590 --> 00:14:00,390
S3: But I just think as well the funny, like not

314
00:14:00,390 --> 00:14:02,609
S3: funny but maybe sad thing and like, you know, we've

315
00:14:02,610 --> 00:14:04,679
S3: already done the kind of non disclaimer, but it just

316
00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:06,840
S3: feels like there's such a copy and paste pattern. Now

317
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:08,970
S3: for when stuff like this flares up, there's like an

318
00:14:08,970 --> 00:14:12,030
S3: incident around something racial. And then like whoever is concerned, like,

319
00:14:12,030 --> 00:14:13,980
S3: gets on the phone to Ben Fordham at two GB,

320
00:14:13,980 --> 00:14:16,020
S3: which is obviously a really easy way to blast it

321
00:14:16,020 --> 00:14:18,390
S3: out and trigger a culture war. Like it's become a

322
00:14:18,390 --> 00:14:20,130
S3: I feel like every 2 or 3 weeks now, we're

323
00:14:20,130 --> 00:14:22,020
S3: having a conversation about something like this, and it happens

324
00:14:22,020 --> 00:14:23,490
S3: in the exact same way. Yeah.

325
00:14:23,490 --> 00:14:26,130
S1: And I mean, like, you know, talkback radio, this has

326
00:14:26,130 --> 00:14:27,900
S1: been a part of it for a long time. And

327
00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:30,330
S1: this is how talkback radio works. There's a concerned citizen

328
00:14:30,330 --> 00:14:33,300
S1: angry about an issue. It gets litigated like that's on

329
00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:35,400
S1: one hand that's like sort of just like how it works.

330
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,820
S1: It's just interesting how quickly politicians buy into it. Like,

331
00:14:38,820 --> 00:14:41,010
S1: I feel like there's a world in which politicians just say,

332
00:14:41,010 --> 00:14:43,140
S1: that's a matter for the school. Or they say, like, look,

333
00:14:43,140 --> 00:14:46,830
S1: maybe there's something about how we educate kids on colonization.

334
00:14:46,830 --> 00:14:48,869
S1: But also, I'm the premier. I don't really want to

335
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:51,090
S1: talk about hip hop. Being played at a school like

336
00:14:51,090 --> 00:14:53,880
S1: that just doesn't feel like it needs to go that

337
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,670
S1: big so quick. And to your point, it feels like

338
00:14:56,670 --> 00:15:00,120
S1: that is happening regularly. But yeah, I mean, I don't

339
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,370
S1: really like it seems like this song is not going

340
00:15:02,370 --> 00:15:04,620
S1: to be on the playlist of schools in New South Wales,

341
00:15:04,620 --> 00:15:06,450
S1: and maybe they should go back to bells or whatever,

342
00:15:06,450 --> 00:15:08,070
S1: but I don't want to name the school because I

343
00:15:08,070 --> 00:15:09,510
S1: want to get this parrot in trouble. But like someone

344
00:15:09,510 --> 00:15:12,780
S1: was telling me that they, their kids do a module on, uh,

345
00:15:12,780 --> 00:15:16,950
S1: Briggs's January 26th, which is also a very like, intense

346
00:15:16,950 --> 00:15:20,040
S1: song about the impacts of colonization on indigenous people. That's

347
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,770
S1: a very popular song. Birds was signed by Briggs to

348
00:15:22,770 --> 00:15:25,200
S1: his label Bad Apples. Bird sort of sees himself in

349
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,020
S1: that sort of similar vein. So this is like a

350
00:15:28,020 --> 00:15:31,109
S1: part of Australian music culture now, an indigenous culture. This

351
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:33,210
S1: is where a lot of indigenous artists are finding the

352
00:15:33,210 --> 00:15:35,400
S1: space to tell their stories, that they've not really been

353
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,530
S1: allowed to tell for a very long time. So I

354
00:15:37,530 --> 00:15:39,090
S1: kind of hope this doesn't turn into.

355
00:15:39,090 --> 00:15:39,330
S4: A.

356
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,930
S1: Massive culture war about, well, rappers aren't allowed to talk

357
00:15:42,930 --> 00:15:46,140
S1: about their views on colonization. That's offensive and divisive in Australia.

358
00:15:46,140 --> 00:15:48,510
S1: This is kind of the point of their storytelling.

359
00:15:50,970 --> 00:15:54,560
UU: Shoreline caught me coming. I cross my heart, I take

360
00:15:54,560 --> 00:16:10,050
UU: it from me. My army ain't gonna wanna try. Oh, my.

361
00:16:19,090 --> 00:16:21,940
S1: Okay, so one of the movies that I think all

362
00:16:21,940 --> 00:16:24,760
S1: three of us have been very, very, very excited about

363
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,120
S1: comes out this Friday on Netflix. It's the latest film

364
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,050
S1: by Richard Linklater, probably best known for the before trilogy

365
00:16:32,050 --> 00:16:35,320
S1: starring Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy. He also directed school

366
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,070
S1: of Rock, Dazed and Confused, and Boyhood. Hitman is based

367
00:16:39,070 --> 00:16:42,520
S1: on a true story written by journalist Skip Hollandsworth in

368
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,510
S1: The Texas Monthly magazine back in 2001. No.

369
00:16:47,050 --> 00:16:50,950
S7: No, no, I don't buy it. What? You're not a hitman.

370
00:16:51,460 --> 00:16:57,000
S7: You can't be. Mentally looking you up at nothing. It's

371
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,200
S7: like you don't even exist.

372
00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,940
S8: I guess I'm just your fantasy.

373
00:17:02,030 --> 00:17:04,909
S7: So what's the biggest difference between the real you and

374
00:17:04,910 --> 00:17:05,929
S7: your occupation?

375
00:17:09,630 --> 00:17:12,690
S9: By the way, my name is Gary Johnson, and I'm

376
00:17:12,690 --> 00:17:18,550
S9: a fake hit man. The film is.

377
00:17:18,550 --> 00:17:22,480
S1: Co-written by Linklater and Glen Powell, who was also the

378
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,980
S1: star of the film alongside Adria Arjona. The movie's about

379
00:17:26,980 --> 00:17:30,070
S1: a part time undercover police officer in New Orleans who

380
00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:33,640
S1: poses as a hit man to arrest people trying to

381
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,420
S1: hire him. Things get complicated for this pretend hit man

382
00:17:37,420 --> 00:17:40,030
S1: when he meets a woman who tries to hire him

383
00:17:40,030 --> 00:17:42,850
S1: to knock off her husband. Kind of takes the movie

384
00:17:42,850 --> 00:17:46,930
S1: in a much more thrilling and, like, pretty damn sexy direction.

385
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,540
S1: It was really interesting watching this movie off the back

386
00:17:49,540 --> 00:17:53,980
S1: of our conversation about 1999 movies, because I feel like this,

387
00:17:53,980 --> 00:17:56,680
S1: from its premise to its execution, is exactly the kind

388
00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,520
S1: of movie, sort of stylish, mid-budget drama rom com that

389
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,350
S1: we used to get heaps of back in the day,

390
00:18:02,350 --> 00:18:04,120
S1: and we keep saying we want more of these kinds

391
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,280
S1: of films. I thought it was really, really great. I

392
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,129
S1: think it does a really interesting job at subverting your

393
00:18:09,130 --> 00:18:12,730
S1: expectations of what a movie called hitman is going to

394
00:18:12,730 --> 00:18:15,130
S1: be about. It's like not an action packed thriller, but

395
00:18:15,130 --> 00:18:18,909
S1: it is still really entertaining and really fun. It's way

396
00:18:18,910 --> 00:18:23,409
S1: more of an examination of ideas around identity, trying to

397
00:18:23,410 --> 00:18:26,320
S1: find meaning and purpose in life, who we are as

398
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,800
S1: people versus what we project outwards to others. Add to

399
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,740
S1: that this kind of dash of sexy rom com vibes,

400
00:18:32,740 --> 00:18:36,160
S1: courtesy of the very, very, very great performances by both

401
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,350
S1: Powell and Arjona. I think ultimately you just have. Yeah,

402
00:18:38,350 --> 00:18:41,169
S1: like I said, a fun, exciting, thought provoking film. And

403
00:18:41,170 --> 00:18:45,010
S1: my only wish with it is that. It was coming

404
00:18:45,010 --> 00:18:46,929
S1: out in cinemas. I feel like this would be such

405
00:18:46,930 --> 00:18:49,540
S1: a great film to watch with a group of people

406
00:18:49,540 --> 00:18:51,850
S1: in a movie theater. I also think it would make

407
00:18:51,850 --> 00:18:53,979
S1: a lot of money in a year where movies are

408
00:18:53,980 --> 00:18:56,889
S1: otherwise struggling. But yeah, when it was playing at the

409
00:18:56,890 --> 00:18:59,740
S1: film festival circuit getting rave reviews, big studios just didn't

410
00:18:59,770 --> 00:19:02,230
S1: offer much up and Netflix snapped it up for a

411
00:19:02,230 --> 00:19:04,300
S1: cool $20 million. So I want to talk to you

412
00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:06,370
S1: guys about all of that a little bit later on.

413
00:19:06,369 --> 00:19:09,580
S1: But initial takes on hitman. How'd you guys find it?

414
00:19:09,580 --> 00:19:13,270
S2: I completely agree with you. I thought it was very funny, smart.

415
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:16,450
S2: It's a very tight film. It sweeps you up with

416
00:19:16,450 --> 00:19:19,750
S2: its self-assuredness and it really carries you away. And there

417
00:19:19,750 --> 00:19:23,320
S2: are continual plot shifts that are really surprising and keep

418
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,169
S2: you interested in the film the whole way through. Um,

419
00:19:26,170 --> 00:19:28,119
S2: so I had a great time watching it.

420
00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,209
S3: Yeah. Look, I really liked it too. Um, I will

421
00:19:31,210 --> 00:19:34,449
S3: admit that my upon first watch I like it had

422
00:19:34,450 --> 00:19:37,090
S3: a big weekend, and so I think I was watching

423
00:19:37,090 --> 00:19:40,179
S3: it in the wrong frame of mind. So I enjoyed

424
00:19:40,180 --> 00:19:42,070
S3: it as we kind of like, briefly discussed off air,

425
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:44,379
S3: but I was like, oh, okay. And then now having

426
00:19:44,380 --> 00:19:46,570
S3: like sat back on it and also, I think kind

427
00:19:46,570 --> 00:19:49,090
S3: of being in a bit of a Linklater headspace, I

428
00:19:49,090 --> 00:19:52,570
S3: actually do really, really appreciate this movie. It's much cleverer

429
00:19:52,570 --> 00:19:55,240
S3: than I was probably prepared for. Like, you know, like

430
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,260
S3: on a hungover Sunday evening. Um, I still have big

431
00:19:59,260 --> 00:20:01,389
S3: question marks around Glen Powell, as you know, kind of

432
00:20:01,390 --> 00:20:03,490
S3: the savior of the leading man. But I think in

433
00:20:03,490 --> 00:20:06,340
S3: terms of like Linklater bringing his skill set and his,

434
00:20:06,340 --> 00:20:10,000
S3: like thematic approach into a new, especially like the Netflix format,

435
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,159
S3: like he's he's kind of snuck in one of the

436
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,950
S3: most interesting films of the year, like onto a streaming

437
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:16,900
S3: platform that millions of people will watch.

438
00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:18,459
S1: I think that's a really good way of putting it.

439
00:20:18,460 --> 00:20:20,980
S1: I think the movie is so smart in how it

440
00:20:20,980 --> 00:20:24,220
S1: rewards like a casual watch or a sort of more

441
00:20:24,220 --> 00:20:26,140
S1: engaged watch. I think a lot of people can just

442
00:20:26,140 --> 00:20:29,320
S1: watch this movie and see to hot people, like, be

443
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,840
S1: in this sort of fun, sexy film. But then the

444
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,100
S1: more you think about it and the more you watch,

445
00:20:33,100 --> 00:20:34,870
S1: you're like, oh, this movie is really saying a lot

446
00:20:34,869 --> 00:20:36,790
S1: of fascinating things about being at a certain stage in

447
00:20:36,790 --> 00:20:40,810
S1: your life about, you know, this, this question of how

448
00:20:40,810 --> 00:20:43,510
S1: do we create an image or an idea of ourselves

449
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:45,850
S1: and how does that sit with who we really are

450
00:20:45,850 --> 00:20:47,470
S1: versus the person we want to be in different sorts

451
00:20:47,470 --> 00:20:50,290
S1: of situations? I think, like, I want to talk about

452
00:20:50,290 --> 00:20:53,680
S1: the Glen Powell thing because the movie does hinge on him.

453
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,530
S1: He's like the coward. He's the star. He's the driving

454
00:20:56,530 --> 00:21:00,130
S1: force behind the movie. At the beginning. He's this kind

455
00:21:00,130 --> 00:21:03,910
S1: of daggy uni lecturer moonlighting as an undercover cop. This

456
00:21:03,910 --> 00:21:05,500
S1: is also a hilarious thing about America, where you can

457
00:21:05,500 --> 00:21:08,170
S1: be a part time undercover cop while you're a.

458
00:21:08,770 --> 00:21:09,429
S6: Because it's based on.

459
00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:10,180
S2: A true story.

460
00:21:10,510 --> 00:21:10,780
S6: Yeah, I.

461
00:21:10,780 --> 00:21:11,560
S1: Know, I know what a.

462
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,360
S3: Only in America would they be like. Yeah, yeah. Once

463
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,670
S3: you're done. Like, you know, teaching philosophy. Can you come

464
00:21:15,670 --> 00:21:17,649
S3: and moonlight as an undercover? So weird.

465
00:21:17,770 --> 00:21:18,280
S6: I wish all.

466
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:19,690
S2: Cops knew philosophy.

467
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,200
S1: Um, probably something with, like, budget cuts. They can't afford

468
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,689
S1: full time police or something. Um, but, yeah, he has

469
00:21:25,690 --> 00:21:28,660
S1: to adopt so many different personas in this movie, both as, like,

470
00:21:28,660 --> 00:21:30,520
S1: the primary character, but also the conceit of the film

471
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,390
S1: being he disguises himself as different versions of a hit

472
00:21:34,390 --> 00:21:37,690
S1: man to try to entrap or capture the people that

473
00:21:37,690 --> 00:21:41,260
S1: that he's going after. I think he was awesome in this.

474
00:21:41,260 --> 00:21:44,440
S1: Like I, we discussed this last week. I'm a big

475
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,919
S1: fan of Glen Powell. You know, he was discovered in

476
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,810
S1: a way by Richard Linklater as well. He cast him

477
00:21:49,810 --> 00:21:51,460
S1: in Fast Food Nation, and then he got his big

478
00:21:51,460 --> 00:21:54,669
S1: starring role in Everybody Wants Some, um, which I'm very

479
00:21:54,670 --> 00:21:56,050
S1: keen to chat to you guys about. I did a

480
00:21:56,050 --> 00:21:58,899
S1: bit of a Linklater rewatch over the past week, and

481
00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:00,640
S1: that is such a great movie, and he's really good

482
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,920
S1: in it. He's in two of the biggest movies last

483
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,710
S1: couple of years, Top Gun Maverick and Anyone But You.

484
00:22:05,710 --> 00:22:07,600
S1: This is a role which I think he gets to

485
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,609
S1: be a bit more interesting and also have a lot

486
00:22:09,609 --> 00:22:11,260
S1: of fun. I thought he was awesome. What did you

487
00:22:11,260 --> 00:22:13,750
S1: guys think Tom is? You still not totally convinced by

488
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:15,459
S1: the Powell hype machine?

489
00:22:15,460 --> 00:22:18,100
S3: I am definitely not convinced. Also, I just think it's

490
00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:20,770
S3: so funny because obviously we spoke about Glen Powell last week.

491
00:22:20,770 --> 00:22:22,750
S3: That list, you know, The Hollywood Reporter list of ten,

492
00:22:22,750 --> 00:22:24,820
S3: you know, hot new things in Hollywood. A friend of

493
00:22:24,820 --> 00:22:27,550
S3: mine texted me afterwards because Osmond spoke at length about

494
00:22:27,550 --> 00:22:30,340
S3: his admiration for Glen Powell. And a friend of mine

495
00:22:30,340 --> 00:22:32,290
S3: texted me after I was like, I honestly thought you

496
00:22:32,290 --> 00:22:34,570
S3: were talking about Glenn Close. Why is Osmond so obsessed

497
00:22:34,570 --> 00:22:36,790
S3: with Glen Powell? And I was like, look, man, I

498
00:22:36,790 --> 00:22:38,500
S3: couldn't agree with you more. I mean, that.

499
00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:40,480
S1: Says more about you and your weird friends. Glen Powell

500
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,790
S1: is a big star. He's in twisters, which is one

501
00:22:42,790 --> 00:22:45,010
S1: of the biggest movies of the year coming out this year.

502
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,440
S3: Now he is like, I mean, he, I, I know

503
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:48,910
S3: who he is. I don't get him in Glenn Close

504
00:22:48,910 --> 00:22:52,359
S3: confused anymore. But I still just think, you know, he

505
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,820
S3: was good in this. I just I still just don't

506
00:22:54,820 --> 00:22:57,609
S3: really get it from him. And, I mean, I am

507
00:22:57,609 --> 00:22:59,890
S3: increasingly aware that I am in the minority, like, you know,

508
00:22:59,890 --> 00:23:01,719
S3: who am I to tell Richard Linklater, who to put

509
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,600
S3: in his new great movie? But I just think the

510
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,460
S3: movie is good and his performance is still really good,

511
00:23:06,460 --> 00:23:08,679
S3: but I still like, look at him and just find

512
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,200
S3: him not super engaging. When I think about the like

513
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,300
S3: leading men or women that I really love to watch

514
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:15,280
S3: and who I could watch, like really do anything, he

515
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:16,870
S3: does not fall into that category for me.

516
00:23:16,869 --> 00:23:18,850
S2: I thought he was great in this, and he did

517
00:23:18,850 --> 00:23:20,980
S2: co-write it with Richard Linklater as well.

518
00:23:20,980 --> 00:23:22,630
S3: When it says he co-wrote it, is that is he

519
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:24,159
S3: like the Affleck in that situation? No, I.

520
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,880
S1: Don't think it's interesting because when you see Linklater's talked

521
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,100
S1: a bit about the story of the film coming together

522
00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:33,250
S1: and he read that article. So Linklater is a Texas guy. He,

523
00:23:33,250 --> 00:23:36,220
S1: you know, famously shoots and works and lives in Texas.

524
00:23:36,220 --> 00:23:38,350
S1: A lot of his movies are set in Texas, and

525
00:23:38,350 --> 00:23:41,440
S1: Texas is like a big character in his films. Uh,

526
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,860
S1: Powell's also from Texas, from Austin. But obviously different generation.

527
00:23:44,859 --> 00:23:46,450
S1: And so Linklater is like, I got this call during

528
00:23:46,450 --> 00:23:49,210
S1: the pandemic from Glen Powell. And he's like, hey, man,

529
00:23:49,210 --> 00:23:52,629
S1: you've got to read this Texas Monthly article. And Linklater

530
00:23:52,630 --> 00:23:54,310
S1: is like, yeah, I read that when you were like

531
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:56,320
S1: in grade six, like, what are you talking about, man? Like,

532
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:57,820
S1: this is like a very famous story from when you

533
00:23:57,820 --> 00:24:00,280
S1: were a child and like, it's a pandemic and we

534
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:01,719
S1: just didn't really have anything to do. And so we

535
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,300
S1: spent a few years working around. And how did we

536
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:07,030
S1: take this true story? And then they ended up changing

537
00:24:07,030 --> 00:24:08,560
S1: quite a few bits of it. So now when the

538
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,840
S1: movie opens, the title card is like, it's somewhat true

539
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,250
S1: because I took a fair few liberties to have a

540
00:24:12,250 --> 00:24:14,260
S1: bit more fun. It does feel like he was a

541
00:24:14,260 --> 00:24:17,109
S1: bit more like hands on with this. Um, but Mel,

542
00:24:17,109 --> 00:24:18,369
S1: that was a bit of an aside. I cut you

543
00:24:18,369 --> 00:24:20,530
S1: off as you were about to share your powers. As

544
00:24:20,530 --> 00:24:20,830
S1: you're about.

545
00:24:20,830 --> 00:24:23,229
S3: To character assassinate Glen Powell. Come with me.

546
00:24:23,230 --> 00:24:25,510
S2: I thought he was really good in this. I thought

547
00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:30,100
S2: he was very funny, and I thought his character was

548
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:35,350
S2: really good. The name Gary gave me so much joy.

549
00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:37,869
S2: Like just the fact his name is Gary brought every

550
00:24:37,869 --> 00:24:40,660
S2: time it was mentioned, it was kind of used humorously.

551
00:24:40,660 --> 00:24:41,050
S2: And there's a.

552
00:24:41,050 --> 00:24:43,389
S1: Gag about it, right? Where someone's like, your name's Gary's, like,

553
00:24:43,390 --> 00:24:44,290
S1: I know, I know.

554
00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:44,890
S6: Yeah.

555
00:24:45,490 --> 00:24:47,619
S2: I thought that was very funny. There's this great shot

556
00:24:47,619 --> 00:24:51,580
S2: early on where Glen Powell is in his home, and

557
00:24:51,580 --> 00:24:55,870
S2: he's at this tiny table for one, because he lives alone.

558
00:24:55,869 --> 00:24:59,200
S2: He drives a Honda Civic, and I love that he waters.

559
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,929
S2: He's like plants and he's feeds his fish before he

560
00:25:01,930 --> 00:25:04,390
S2: has his own dinner. I just thought the character was

561
00:25:04,390 --> 00:25:08,140
S2: really good. And as the hitman roles he takes on

562
00:25:08,140 --> 00:25:12,040
S2: get progressively more and more insane, I thought they became

563
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,980
S2: funnier and funnier. And so I was won over by

564
00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:17,320
S2: Glen Powell. I agree with you. Last week I wasn't

565
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,990
S2: sold on him as a as an actor, as a vibe.

566
00:25:19,990 --> 00:25:22,960
S2: Now I'm completely on the Glen Powell train.

567
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,270
S3: Yeah, but this is the thing. I also said he's

568
00:25:25,270 --> 00:25:27,040
S3: good in it and I thought he was he was

569
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:28,659
S3: good in it. But like is this. And because I

570
00:25:28,660 --> 00:25:30,189
S3: think a lot of the narrative around this movie is

571
00:25:30,190 --> 00:25:32,560
S3: that this is the star making role for Glen Powell.

572
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,380
S3: This is the Glen Powell project that's gonna like really like,

573
00:25:35,380 --> 00:25:37,330
S3: you know, send him into the stratosphere. And I still

574
00:25:37,330 --> 00:25:40,359
S3: just don't think it will. Like not because he was

575
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,220
S3: bad in it, but just because I don't know if

576
00:25:42,220 --> 00:25:44,800
S3: he has that in him. Um, that's kind of my

577
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,209
S3: take on it. Even though I thought he was, like,

578
00:25:46,210 --> 00:25:48,820
S3: funny and stuff. Like, it's not the same feeling I

579
00:25:48,820 --> 00:25:51,010
S3: get when I was watching, like Prime Gosling or Prime

580
00:25:51,010 --> 00:25:52,480
S3: Pitt or Prime DiCaprio.

581
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:57,550
S1: I think there's something about Powells performances, and his general

582
00:25:57,550 --> 00:26:01,090
S1: sort of way of being is that it feels effortless

583
00:26:01,090 --> 00:26:03,670
S1: when he's acting like it just sort of feels like

584
00:26:03,670 --> 00:26:07,150
S1: he's just come in from backstage and he's just doing him,

585
00:26:07,150 --> 00:26:08,770
S1: and maybe there's a bit of that that is like,

586
00:26:08,859 --> 00:26:10,960
S1: he's not really going for it. He's not inhibiting something.

587
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,850
S1: But I think he kind of is. And I think

588
00:26:12,850 --> 00:26:15,580
S1: in this movie he does play these different characters. It's

589
00:26:15,580 --> 00:26:18,669
S1: almost like a movie that is clearly partly designed to

590
00:26:18,670 --> 00:26:20,920
S1: let him show off his acting chops and not just

591
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,230
S1: be like the hunk that he was and anyone but

592
00:26:23,230 --> 00:26:25,690
S1: you or the, you know, the fighter pilot and Top

593
00:26:25,690 --> 00:26:28,960
S1: Gun Maverick. But yeah, I can. I understand what you're saying, Thomas,

594
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,409
S1: because you he doesn't feel like he's doing something like

595
00:26:32,410 --> 00:26:34,720
S1: Brad Pitt or even like Ethan Hawke at their prime,

596
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,840
S1: where they're really seriously acting, and they've been to the

597
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,030
S1: Lee Strasberg acting school and they're going for it. And

598
00:26:40,030 --> 00:26:42,340
S1: he's probably picking roles that are still a little bit

599
00:26:42,340 --> 00:26:44,500
S1: within his comfort zone. He hasn't been pushed yet, but

600
00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:46,750
S1: I feel like this is an example of his ability

601
00:26:46,750 --> 00:26:49,630
S1: to really show off a wider range. And I think

602
00:26:49,630 --> 00:26:51,670
S1: like the other thing about this film, and this goes

603
00:26:51,670 --> 00:26:54,760
S1: to your point, Mel, about the way that he's character

604
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,250
S1: is so fleshed out, like we find out about his job,

605
00:26:57,250 --> 00:26:58,959
S1: we find out about the car he drives. He's got

606
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,660
S1: these two cats. He has an ex-wife who comes in.

607
00:27:01,660 --> 00:27:04,000
S1: This is a one hour and 55 minute movie. It's

608
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,000
S1: pretty tight, and you just don't get that kind of

609
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,850
S1: script writing or character building in so many films, particularly

610
00:27:09,850 --> 00:27:13,000
S1: films on streamers, characters are just like two dimensional kind

611
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,790
S1: of cardboard cutouts. They play this role, whereas in this movie,

612
00:27:15,790 --> 00:27:17,890
S1: every character, even characters that are just in it for

613
00:27:17,890 --> 00:27:20,380
S1: a minute, you just get such a sense that they

614
00:27:20,380 --> 00:27:22,360
S1: are real and have a real life, and they've reached

615
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,250
S1: this point in their career, and that's why they're doing X, Y,

616
00:27:24,250 --> 00:27:27,100
S1: and Z. It's really remarkable how much it manages to

617
00:27:27,100 --> 00:27:27,730
S1: pack in.

618
00:27:27,730 --> 00:27:30,909
S2: Yeah, totally. And that is absolutely the joy of watching

619
00:27:30,910 --> 00:27:36,190
S2: a Richard Linklater film is the dialogue is so incredible

620
00:27:36,190 --> 00:27:38,530
S2: and touches on so much. It's a way of like,

621
00:27:38,530 --> 00:27:42,640
S2: we don't speak like Richard Linklater's characters speak, but he

622
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,459
S2: still manages to make it seem authentic and real. And

623
00:27:45,460 --> 00:27:48,490
S2: there are so many one liners in this that make

624
00:27:48,490 --> 00:27:51,940
S2: you laugh out loud without feeling like they're a one

625
00:27:51,940 --> 00:27:55,119
S2: liner joke. It's very subtly funny.

626
00:27:55,570 --> 00:27:57,550
S1: So this movie is a bit of a two hander.

627
00:27:57,550 --> 00:28:01,060
S1: The other main character, Adria Arjona, mentioned before, briefly. Had

628
00:28:01,060 --> 00:28:03,879
S1: you guys seen her in anything before this film?

629
00:28:04,150 --> 00:28:06,219
S3: No, literally never seen her before, ever. But it was

630
00:28:06,220 --> 00:28:07,810
S3: like very much a quick Google to be like, what's

631
00:28:07,810 --> 00:28:09,580
S3: she been in? She was very, very good. Yeah.

632
00:28:09,580 --> 00:28:11,950
S2: I think this is definitely another star in the making.

633
00:28:11,950 --> 00:28:14,350
S1: Yeah, she I only seen her in this movie six underground,

634
00:28:14,350 --> 00:28:16,119
S1: which came out a few years ago and, and all

635
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:17,440
S1: the Star Wars show, which she's got like a small

636
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,689
S1: but pretty good role. She was awesome in this. And

637
00:28:19,690 --> 00:28:22,899
S1: the chemistry between the two of them was like, off

638
00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:25,480
S1: the charts. It reminded me of one of my favorite films, uh,

639
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,260
S1: out of Sight Soderbergh film with JLo and Clooney. And

640
00:28:29,260 --> 00:28:32,050
S1: the way that it sort of they're on these opposing sides.

641
00:28:32,050 --> 00:28:34,390
S1: It's like a romance that isn't supposed to happen, but

642
00:28:34,390 --> 00:28:37,270
S1: it slowly starts to burn. And it does had a

643
00:28:37,270 --> 00:28:39,820
S1: lot of those vibes in this film. Yeah, I think

644
00:28:39,820 --> 00:28:41,110
S1: she totally killed it. Yeah, because.

645
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:43,800
S3: She really like for that specific character, you know. You

646
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,350
S3: have to really nail that. Like, is she playing him

647
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:48,660
S3: like up until the, you know, towards the end when

648
00:28:48,660 --> 00:28:50,940
S3: it becomes clear what is going on. Like you're really

649
00:28:50,940 --> 00:28:53,760
S3: not sure of her intentions. Um, and because, you know,

650
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,300
S3: Paul's character is so like, it's all kind of there. Um,

651
00:28:57,300 --> 00:28:59,220
S3: I thought she was such a good foil for him.

652
00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:01,470
S3: And just like the way, you know, she would like

653
00:29:01,470 --> 00:29:03,930
S3: certain look, she would have or certain ways she would

654
00:29:03,930 --> 00:29:05,700
S3: word stuff like, I feel like she really kept both

655
00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:09,360
S3: audience and Paul's character. Like, what? What is her intention here? Yeah.

656
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,510
S2: She constantly managed to pull off that shape shifting sense.

657
00:29:12,510 --> 00:29:16,530
S2: And there was always the playfulness was in there, miscommunications

658
00:29:16,530 --> 00:29:18,690
S2: with each other. So you are always on the edge

659
00:29:18,690 --> 00:29:21,270
S2: of your seat, but not in an uncomfortable way about

660
00:29:21,270 --> 00:29:24,300
S2: who's playing who and where the film's going to go.

661
00:29:34,190 --> 00:29:36,440
S1: We've talked a bit this year about the role of

662
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,220
S1: sex in cinema and, you know, movies like challenges being

663
00:29:40,220 --> 00:29:42,410
S1: called like the sexiest movie in a while and bringing

664
00:29:42,410 --> 00:29:44,210
S1: sex back to cinemas. And we talked about how there's

665
00:29:44,210 --> 00:29:47,240
S1: like no actual real explicit sex scenes in that this movie,

666
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,000
S1: it's not really been sold as like a super sexy movie,

667
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,640
S1: but it feels, again, like a bit of a throwback

668
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,580
S1: to kind of sexy thriller in the 90s where there

669
00:29:55,580 --> 00:29:57,860
S1: was like a bunch of sex and it just sort

670
00:29:57,860 --> 00:29:59,420
S1: of is there, and it's normal for it to be there.

671
00:29:59,420 --> 00:30:02,480
S1: And it, you know, makes sense in terms of the characters,

672
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,090
S1: arcs and whatever. I'm a bit surprised that they're not

673
00:30:05,090 --> 00:30:07,700
S1: pushing like the rom com angle as much, because that

674
00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:10,520
S1: is such a way to get people to watch a movie.

675
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,280
S1: But were you guys surprised by how steamy this kind

676
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:13,670
S1: of got?

677
00:30:14,150 --> 00:30:17,030
S2: Look, I don't this will upset you because I know

678
00:30:17,030 --> 00:30:19,430
S2: you guys probably loved the sex scenes. I thought it

679
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:21,950
S2: was a bit excessive. Not in terms of, like, don't make.

680
00:30:21,950 --> 00:30:22,700
S1: Us sound like.

681
00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:25,700
S6: 14 year old boys. Well, like, have.

682
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:28,100
S1: You edited by saying it was important to the story

683
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:28,310
S1: and the.

684
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:29,060
S6: Characters?

685
00:30:29,180 --> 00:30:31,820
S2: Why not? Because of the Graphicness or anything like that.

686
00:30:31,820 --> 00:30:35,150
S2: There was just a lot of it that kind of

687
00:30:35,150 --> 00:30:37,310
S2: felt like unnecessary. Like I almost got it after the

688
00:30:37,310 --> 00:30:39,860
S2: first two moments of passion, and then it kept going

689
00:30:39,890 --> 00:30:42,380
S2: and going and going, which I didn't mind, but I

690
00:30:42,380 --> 00:30:44,420
S2: just didn't think it was really essential to the meet.

691
00:30:44,420 --> 00:30:48,470
S2: Cute that this film actually is beneath the thriller angle

692
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:50,300
S2: of it. So I don't know. I think you could

693
00:30:50,300 --> 00:30:53,090
S2: have cut some of that and you wouldn't have lost anything. Like,

694
00:30:53,270 --> 00:30:55,580
S2: I just felt like the point was being hit home. Yes,

695
00:30:55,580 --> 00:30:57,590
S2: we get it. These people have amazing chemistry over and

696
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:58,730
S2: over and over again.

697
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,710
S3: Are you saying Linklaters in his creepy era now?

698
00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:03,020
S6: I don't think it's creepy.

699
00:31:03,020 --> 00:31:07,400
S2: Like, I understand it's fun to watch, right? But, you know. Yeah,

700
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,230
S2: I think it was almost too much.

701
00:31:09,260 --> 00:31:10,820
S3: I was fine with it. Um.

702
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:11,570
S6: But, you.

703
00:31:11,570 --> 00:31:14,270
S3: Know, they're both, like, super hot Glen Powell, like, you know,

704
00:31:14,270 --> 00:31:16,790
S3: hasn't like, you know, he's still been hitting the gym

705
00:31:16,790 --> 00:31:20,150
S3: obviously post anyone, but he looks amazing. Uh, I really

706
00:31:20,150 --> 00:31:23,750
S3: love her. And, um, was happy for them to be, like,

707
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:26,000
S3: nude on screen together. Also, I thought it was like,

708
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,700
S3: you know, all jokes aside, ha! Thomas is gross. But like,

709
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:30,110
S3: I did think it was kind of important to the

710
00:31:30,110 --> 00:31:32,060
S3: characters because they then start to build in these, like,

711
00:31:32,060 --> 00:31:34,010
S3: you know, there is there's this whole thing about the

712
00:31:34,010 --> 00:31:36,110
S3: signing of the contract when they're like making, you know,

713
00:31:36,110 --> 00:31:37,790
S3: these like rules within their relationship that are kind of

714
00:31:37,790 --> 00:31:41,150
S3: related to sex and also the kind of strange framework

715
00:31:41,150 --> 00:31:42,980
S3: they have to exist in because of the, you know,

716
00:31:43,070 --> 00:31:45,890
S3: what's going on in the movie. Like everything played into

717
00:31:45,890 --> 00:31:48,020
S3: the development of these two. So I thought it was

718
00:31:48,020 --> 00:31:50,330
S3: like fun. And again, like especially off the back of,

719
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,370
S3: you know, we spoke a lot about sex last week

720
00:31:52,370 --> 00:31:55,460
S3: because of the 1999 thing. This did feel like a throwback.

721
00:31:55,460 --> 00:31:57,890
S3: And and yeah, I mean, it's just it's just part

722
00:31:57,890 --> 00:31:58,790
S3: of the formula. Yeah.

723
00:31:58,790 --> 00:32:01,850
S1: And they're kind of, you know, their, um, interactions, role

724
00:32:01,850 --> 00:32:05,660
S1: play features pretty heavily. And I feel like that's not

725
00:32:05,660 --> 00:32:07,729
S1: even the subtext. It's a subtext. And the text of

726
00:32:07,730 --> 00:32:10,370
S1: the film is the roles that we all play in,

727
00:32:10,370 --> 00:32:12,650
S1: in the world when we're going on a first date,

728
00:32:12,650 --> 00:32:15,200
S1: when we're meeting someone, when we're at home versus at

729
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,810
S1: work and in the bedroom. And I feel like it.

730
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,180
S1: It's interesting that link light is like, no, we're going

731
00:32:20,180 --> 00:32:22,490
S1: to go there. This is how, you know, like in

732
00:32:22,490 --> 00:32:26,330
S1: some some scenes, we should say that Powell's character is

733
00:32:26,330 --> 00:32:29,240
S1: an academic who lectures on like philosophy. And there are

734
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,980
S1: some scenes where they cut to him in the classroom

735
00:32:30,980 --> 00:32:33,860
S1: and he's like, this is the point of the movie.

736
00:32:33,980 --> 00:32:36,830
S1: You know, these ideas of Freudian ideas of, you know,

737
00:32:36,830 --> 00:32:38,510
S1: the ID and the ego and the superego and whatever.

738
00:32:38,510 --> 00:32:40,820
S1: That is what we're discussing. And maybe that was like

739
00:32:40,820 --> 00:32:43,040
S1: a little bit too hand-holding, but it kind of worked

740
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,250
S1: for me. And, and I think it it helped you.

741
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,110
S1: It probably nudged you a bit. Maybe there are some

742
00:32:48,110 --> 00:32:50,719
S1: rule philosophy heads that are like, I just didn't need that.

743
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,400
S1: I got it. But I think for the kinds of

744
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:53,600
S1: people who are going to be watching this on a

745
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,060
S1: Sunday afternoon on Netflix or whatever, it helps push you

746
00:32:56,060 --> 00:32:59,270
S1: into thinking about those themes of the film, those themes

747
00:32:59,270 --> 00:33:02,870
S1: of identity and who we are and who we try

748
00:33:02,870 --> 00:33:05,120
S1: to be, which have been part of Linklater's work for,

749
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,330
S1: for since day one, basically. And there's this opening scene

750
00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:11,360
S1: where one of his students lays out, I think, Linklater's thesis,

751
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,570
S1: she's like, you know, this quote that you've just recited

752
00:33:14,570 --> 00:33:16,700
S1: is about seizing the day, making the most of life,

753
00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:19,190
S1: just going for it. And that is a part of like,

754
00:33:19,190 --> 00:33:21,440
S1: Dazed and Confused. It's a part of Everybody Wants Some.

755
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,420
S1: It's part of this movie. But it was also really

756
00:33:23,420 --> 00:33:28,670
S1: interesting because this constant thematic focus on you can create

757
00:33:28,670 --> 00:33:30,770
S1: your own version of yourself. You can be whoever you

758
00:33:30,770 --> 00:33:32,060
S1: want to be. Do you want to be a hitman?

759
00:33:32,060 --> 00:33:33,020
S1: Do you want to be a teacher? Do you want

760
00:33:33,020 --> 00:33:35,360
S1: to be a sort of like, you know, a gangster,

761
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:36,650
S1: a hitman? Do you want to be a kind of

762
00:33:36,650 --> 00:33:39,080
S1: nerdier one? Do you want to be this country bumpkin?

763
00:33:39,470 --> 00:33:42,800
S1: It just felt not disconnected from current conversations we're having

764
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,920
S1: in society about identity, and whether it's set for you,

765
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,500
S1: or whether you get to choose who you are in

766
00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:51,320
S1: terms of your sexuality, your gender identity, whatever. And it

767
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,260
S1: was interesting hearing Richard Linklater on a New York Times

768
00:33:54,260 --> 00:33:57,020
S1: podcast be like, yeah, no, that's exactly what I was

769
00:33:57,020 --> 00:33:58,760
S1: trying to get across. Like, I think it's one of

770
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,510
S1: the most fascinating bits of our current moment that we've

771
00:34:02,510 --> 00:34:05,450
S1: trying to have the conversation around you. You are who

772
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,730
S1: you tell people you are. And that's what I wanted

773
00:34:07,730 --> 00:34:09,469
S1: to do with the movie. I found that a really

774
00:34:09,469 --> 00:34:10,460
S1: fascinating part of it.

775
00:34:10,460 --> 00:34:13,520
S2: Yeah, I think that's so true. And it's probably worth noting, too.

776
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:18,200
S2: It does where these philosophical underpinnings very lightly. Like on

777
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,600
S2: one hand, you can imagine this being studied in a

778
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,239
S2: philosophy class, but you could also watch this and not

779
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,240
S2: really consider it at all, like it doesn't feel heavy handed.

780
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,020
S2: And as well as an assessment on the mutability of

781
00:34:30,020 --> 00:34:34,650
S2: the self, an ongoing interest of philosophers, I. Really sold

782
00:34:34,650 --> 00:34:37,469
S2: this as a take on cinema as well, because it's

783
00:34:37,469 --> 00:34:42,120
S2: really in deliberate dialogue with films about hitman and the

784
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,050
S2: fantasy of cinema. And as the self is unravelling, so

785
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,560
S2: is the cinematic role of the hitman, because there are

786
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:54,080
S2: really deliberate. Jokes or winks to things like John Wick

787
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,680
S2: and Pulp Fiction and Leon the Professional, the killer, Leroy, Texas.

788
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,719
S2: They all kind of are snuck in there, and the

789
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,259
S2: different hitman plots and the different hitman characters are really

790
00:35:03,260 --> 00:35:05,420
S2: played with. And so I thought, as much as a

791
00:35:05,420 --> 00:35:08,120
S2: film about individuality and the self, this was a film

792
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,710
S2: about cinema. Yeah.

793
00:35:09,710 --> 00:35:11,300
S3: And it's funny because I, you know, I think we've

794
00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:14,719
S3: obviously all been like deep in, in Linklater land and,

795
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,190
S3: you know, this is a guy who, when he was

796
00:35:16,190 --> 00:35:19,880
S3: getting his start in film, was seeing 650 films a year,

797
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,080
S3: which is like that's like near farooqi levels of cinema numbers.

798
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,250
S1: He's posting up, man. That's crazy.

799
00:35:25,370 --> 00:35:26,660
S3: Like, but like he would go and see three and

800
00:35:26,660 --> 00:35:28,399
S3: four films a day and he talks about, you know,

801
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,160
S3: like in I think the same New York Times interview

802
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,020
S3: he talks about, oh, look, people are always kind of

803
00:35:33,020 --> 00:35:35,840
S3: heralding the death of cinema and, and it's always under

804
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,970
S3: attack from everything, you know, like, as it has been

805
00:35:37,969 --> 00:35:39,859
S3: for years and years and years. But I did think

806
00:35:39,860 --> 00:35:42,230
S3: that was interesting too, because like the hitman genre has

807
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:44,900
S3: gone through so many kind of different changes and I

808
00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:46,489
S3: would say has been in a bit of a like

809
00:35:46,489 --> 00:35:48,259
S3: there's been a renaissance of it off the back of

810
00:35:48,260 --> 00:35:50,480
S3: like the John Wick's and stuff, but there's so many

811
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,660
S3: like kind of funny and like sharp observations, you know,

812
00:35:53,660 --> 00:35:55,280
S3: in this film, even at the very start, there's like

813
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,290
S3: a lot of voiceover from power. But he talks about

814
00:35:57,290 --> 00:35:59,270
S3: how like everyone thinks there are all these hitmen out there,

815
00:35:59,270 --> 00:36:00,950
S3: but like, no one actually knows any because they don't

816
00:36:00,950 --> 00:36:03,080
S3: really exist. And I just thought that was like very,

817
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,270
S3: very funny kind of getting in, you know, I guess

818
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:07,910
S3: a bit of Linklaters like thoughts on, on like cinema

819
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:09,710
S3: and the changing nature of it, but also like this

820
00:36:09,710 --> 00:36:12,620
S3: whole concept of the hitman that we're so obsessed with

821
00:36:12,620 --> 00:36:14,810
S3: in pop culture. But like, is it something we've just

822
00:36:14,810 --> 00:36:16,219
S3: kind of created for ourselves?

823
00:36:16,219 --> 00:36:18,500
S1: Yeah, I love that read on the movie. And it

824
00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:22,790
S1: is sort of this acknowledgement in a way, of this

825
00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:25,670
S1: trope that is like driven cinema since the 50s. But

826
00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:27,140
S1: I think even earlier, I think some of the first,

827
00:36:27,140 --> 00:36:32,780
S1: like hitmen genres and films were in the 30s. Linklaters like, I'm,

828
00:36:32,780 --> 00:36:36,350
S1: I'm reflecting on what this era was when cinema was

829
00:36:36,350 --> 00:36:39,140
S1: great and I'm sort of like stripping it apart and

830
00:36:39,140 --> 00:36:42,560
S1: being like, this is all bullshit and lies and everything

831
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,050
S1: that you grew up thinking is real is based on

832
00:36:45,050 --> 00:36:47,180
S1: movies telling you stuff, and that's not really what's going on.

833
00:36:47,180 --> 00:36:49,040
S1: There's even this montage at the start of the movie.

834
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,680
S1: I love when films just break the fourth wall like Babylon,

835
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,310
S1: the ending of Babylon, where it's just like a two

836
00:36:53,310 --> 00:36:56,299
S1: minute montage of every big film going back 100 years

837
00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:57,680
S1: is one of my favorite things I've ever seen in

838
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,590
S1: a movie theater. I cried and I clapped. Um, and

839
00:37:00,590 --> 00:37:02,270
S1: then he does it to Stewart. He's just, like, literally

840
00:37:02,270 --> 00:37:06,290
S1: referencing the history of hitmen in cinema's hitmen. Feels like

841
00:37:06,290 --> 00:37:08,509
S1: a weird word to say, the plural of hitman. But

842
00:37:08,510 --> 00:37:10,490
S1: I was going to ask you guys why. Why is

843
00:37:10,489 --> 00:37:12,140
S1: this renaissance happening like it was last year? We were

844
00:37:12,140 --> 00:37:14,420
S1: talking about the killer. It's funny to have a movie

845
00:37:14,420 --> 00:37:17,120
S1: called The Killer by like, David Fincher, one of the

846
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,070
S1: biggest directors who came out of that indie movement in

847
00:37:19,070 --> 00:37:21,920
S1: the 90s. Linklater another one coming out of that, using

848
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,490
S1: the idea of a hitman to explore these bigger questions

849
00:37:25,489 --> 00:37:27,650
S1: about the way the world works. Because we talk about

850
00:37:27,650 --> 00:37:29,509
S1: the killer. That's not really a movie about a hitman,

851
00:37:29,510 --> 00:37:31,549
S1: that's a movie about being a gig worker in the

852
00:37:31,550 --> 00:37:34,010
S1: modern capitalist world. This movie is not really about being

853
00:37:34,010 --> 00:37:35,780
S1: a hitman. It's about being a guy in his like,

854
00:37:35,780 --> 00:37:38,420
S1: 40s trying to figure out where the hell he's at.

855
00:37:38,420 --> 00:37:41,420
S1: What is it about that kind of character that makes

856
00:37:41,420 --> 00:37:43,790
S1: it so ripe for these sorts of interrogations.

857
00:37:43,790 --> 00:37:44,150
S6: I.

858
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:46,910
S3: Guess, where, like, I don't know, we're now more than

859
00:37:46,910 --> 00:37:48,500
S3: ever kind of similar to what we were just talking

860
00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:50,300
S3: about in terms of identity. I feel like we're very

861
00:37:50,300 --> 00:37:53,750
S3: much all like, kind of fixated or obsessed or forced

862
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:56,090
S3: into thinking about, like, you know, the self. And so

863
00:37:56,090 --> 00:37:58,370
S3: like the our sense of self and who we are

864
00:37:58,370 --> 00:37:59,930
S3: in the modern world. And that's such a different thing

865
00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:02,029
S3: to so many people. And it feels like for lots

866
00:38:02,030 --> 00:38:03,830
S3: of people, you know, the rules are changing on who

867
00:38:03,830 --> 00:38:06,350
S3: we are or who we can be or what identity is.

868
00:38:06,380 --> 00:38:08,629
S3: And maybe because like a hit man at its purest

869
00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:11,120
S3: form is like someone who is paid to take someone

870
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,120
S3: else out. It feels like a big kind of like, um,

871
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,760
S3: you know, like an easy way to represent a conversation

872
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,430
S3: around that. Like, I don't know, it is funny that,

873
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:21,469
S3: you know, these important directors who do grapple with a

874
00:38:21,469 --> 00:38:23,840
S3: lot of these big themes seem to be revisiting it

875
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,969
S3: and revisiting it like, I don't know, will we get

876
00:38:25,969 --> 00:38:27,650
S3: some kind of weird, I don't know, like You're a

877
00:38:27,650 --> 00:38:30,230
S3: Hit Man by Baz Luhrmann, like some kind of fantastic

878
00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:32,630
S3: musical number or you guys, you.

879
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:33,740
S1: Guys have a hired a hit man?

880
00:38:34,610 --> 00:38:36,439
S3: Not recently.

881
00:38:37,219 --> 00:38:38,900
S2: But it is one.

882
00:38:39,590 --> 00:38:41,180
S3: You would actually be quite good. You'd be the.

883
00:38:41,210 --> 00:38:43,550
S2: Yeah, go under the radar. I'd have the Glenn Powell

884
00:38:43,550 --> 00:38:44,450
S2: kind of. Yeah.

885
00:38:44,450 --> 00:38:47,150
S6: You would. Yeah. No one no one ever suspects you.

886
00:38:47,150 --> 00:38:47,840
S3: That's right.

887
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:49,700
S1: Have you ever hired a hitman?

888
00:38:50,660 --> 00:38:53,060
S2: Uh, not at this stage, but I won't rule it out.

889
00:38:53,060 --> 00:38:53,450
S2: You guys are.

890
00:38:53,450 --> 00:38:55,970
S1: Being so cagey. I feel like there's a very straightforward answer.

891
00:38:55,969 --> 00:38:56,510
S6: To say.

892
00:38:56,510 --> 00:38:59,210
S1: No, I don't know any. I've not heard one, and

893
00:38:59,210 --> 00:39:01,790
S1: I wouldn't. You're like, I don't want to rule it out. Yeah, but.

894
00:39:01,790 --> 00:39:02,509
S6: You're on the record.

895
00:39:02,510 --> 00:39:05,359
S1: Saying, I would definitely not commit this crime.

896
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,339
S3: Yeah, but I mean, like, you don't really want to, like,

897
00:39:07,340 --> 00:39:09,710
S3: admit it to the person that you've hired them for.

898
00:39:09,739 --> 00:39:11,450
S6: Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay. I mean.

899
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,720
S2: Don't you think the hitman embodies the state of the

900
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:20,150
S2: modern individual? That alienation? It's a it's a solo. I mean,

901
00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:21,950
S2: I'm thinking this is the spot, but work with me here.

902
00:39:21,950 --> 00:39:22,430
S2: This is what you were.

903
00:39:22,430 --> 00:39:23,870
S3: After when I answered and you went. We got to

904
00:39:23,870 --> 00:39:24,410
S3: wait till. Mel.

905
00:39:24,410 --> 00:39:26,240
S6: Yeah, yeah, it's a solo job.

906
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,239
S2: It's a very lonely job, isn't it? It's a job

907
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,259
S2: where you are a body for hire by a corporation

908
00:39:33,260 --> 00:39:36,020
S2: or a person that you're often not have any links

909
00:39:36,020 --> 00:39:39,620
S2: with any kind of personal responsibility between which many of

910
00:39:39,620 --> 00:39:41,570
S2: us feel like in the modern workplace. And it's a

911
00:39:41,570 --> 00:39:44,960
S2: very violent job. I think it's probably come back into

912
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,779
S2: fashion because The Hitman is something we can all relate

913
00:39:47,780 --> 00:39:50,330
S2: to in our contemporary society.

914
00:39:50,330 --> 00:39:53,030
S1: I wonder whether part of it is also these directors,

915
00:39:53,030 --> 00:39:55,339
S1: at this stage in their lives, see a little bit

916
00:39:55,340 --> 00:39:58,790
S1: of themselves in these characters. I think someone like Fincher,

917
00:39:58,790 --> 00:40:02,330
S1: who has made these like really fascinating, independent, wacky movies,

918
00:40:02,330 --> 00:40:05,330
S1: but has also worked in the commercial world and made

919
00:40:05,330 --> 00:40:07,190
S1: ads and sort of, you know, done big studio features

920
00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:09,259
S1: as well. I feel like he was putting a lot

921
00:40:09,260 --> 00:40:11,360
S1: of himself in that character, like even to the point

922
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,090
S1: where at the start of that movie where Fassbender is

923
00:40:14,090 --> 00:40:16,669
S1: looking down the scope of the gun and he's just

924
00:40:16,670 --> 00:40:18,710
S1: talking about, I've got to get that shot. You've got

925
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:20,660
S1: to get the framing right on that shot. Get the

926
00:40:20,660 --> 00:40:22,700
S1: zoom right, you've got to get fuck, I missed the

927
00:40:22,700 --> 00:40:25,160
S1: shot like that. Just feels like you could, word for word,

928
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,100
S1: make that about a director making a movie. And I,

929
00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:31,160
S1: you know, it's often about, like, adopting, entering a new world,

930
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,490
S1: like creating new characters, figuring it out as you go along,

931
00:40:34,489 --> 00:40:37,550
S1: like improvising all that sort of stuff is feels like

932
00:40:37,550 --> 00:40:39,859
S1: the language directors use. So I think maybe at this

933
00:40:39,860 --> 00:40:42,259
S1: point they're kind of also making movies about themselves a

934
00:40:42,260 --> 00:40:43,190
S1: little bit potentially.

935
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:45,049
S3: Yeah. But I mean, with that being said, Linklater in

936
00:40:45,050 --> 00:40:46,759
S3: some ways would be an awful hitman because it took

937
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,580
S3: him fucking 12 years to make boyhood. It's like really

938
00:40:49,580 --> 00:40:52,339
S3: putting in the hard yards, like to make his, you know,

939
00:40:52,340 --> 00:40:54,080
S3: his official kill. I suppose.

940
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:55,399
S2: You got to bide your time to make a good.

941
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:56,150
S6: Hit. Exactly.

942
00:40:56,180 --> 00:40:57,800
S3: Osman, have you ever hired a hitman?

943
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,049
S1: I've never hired a hitman. See? Easy to.

944
00:41:00,050 --> 00:41:01,730
S3: Say. Be a lot cooler if you did.

945
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:03,470
S6: So.

946
00:41:03,469 --> 00:41:06,470
S1: Very quickly. Want to talk about this question of where

947
00:41:06,469 --> 00:41:09,050
S1: this movie is being released and where most people will

948
00:41:09,050 --> 00:41:10,940
S1: watch it. And I feel. I feel a bit conflicted

949
00:41:10,940 --> 00:41:13,250
S1: about this because we all love cinema. We love going

950
00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:15,229
S1: to the cinema. The movies are having a tough time

951
00:41:15,230 --> 00:41:18,650
S1: this year. I think this film could be like a

952
00:41:18,650 --> 00:41:21,230
S1: box office success if it was released in theaters. It

953
00:41:21,230 --> 00:41:24,410
S1: just feels like it has that energy. It's short, you know,

954
00:41:24,410 --> 00:41:26,000
S1: like a lot of different people can come into it

955
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,090
S1: from different levels, as we've discussed. But on the other hand,

956
00:41:29,090 --> 00:41:32,569
S1: like Netflix is massive, so this movie will probably get

957
00:41:32,570 --> 00:41:35,480
S1: seen by more people, by being on the biggest streamer

958
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,090
S1: in the world than it would if it was just

959
00:41:38,090 --> 00:41:41,120
S1: in the movie theater. But sometimes I wonder, like, you know,

960
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,339
S1: something like anyone but you. When a movie is released

961
00:41:43,340 --> 00:41:46,040
S1: in the theaters, it creates this huge buzz. So even

962
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,500
S1: if you don't see it, then, like you, Thomas, you

963
00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:49,969
S1: know that it's a big feature. You know, people are

964
00:41:49,969 --> 00:41:51,500
S1: going to see it. Then it hits streaming a couple

965
00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:53,660
S1: of months later and it has this second life. I

966
00:41:53,660 --> 00:41:55,489
S1: kind of feel like that's how this movie could have worked.

967
00:41:55,489 --> 00:41:57,290
S1: But am I just like in my head about this

968
00:41:57,290 --> 00:41:59,000
S1: stuff because I think about box office too much? Do

969
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,650
S1: you guys think it matters where people end up seeing

970
00:42:00,650 --> 00:42:01,280
S1: this film?

971
00:42:01,580 --> 00:42:03,830
S3: No, I kind of tend to agree. I think this

972
00:42:03,830 --> 00:42:06,440
S3: film and like the message will get diluted because it

973
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,649
S3: just is exclusively on Netflix in much the same way. Like,

974
00:42:09,650 --> 00:42:11,330
S3: you know, as I admitted at the top of this,

975
00:42:11,330 --> 00:42:13,250
S3: like when I watched it, I was like a bit

976
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,170
S3: hungover and stuff, and I was like, okay, this is

977
00:42:15,170 --> 00:42:17,360
S3: like a fun Netflix movie. But I do think a

978
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,089
S3: lot of people will probably like, digest it in that way.

979
00:42:20,090 --> 00:42:22,069
S3: Whereas if it was at the movies and then when

980
00:42:22,070 --> 00:42:23,719
S3: you've got it as like, you know, a Linklater film,

981
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,300
S3: he doesn't make heaps of movies. It would kind of

982
00:42:26,300 --> 00:42:28,850
S3: like become more an event to people and then like,

983
00:42:28,850 --> 00:42:30,230
S3: it gets a bit of buzz around it, and then

984
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:32,660
S3: by the time it hits streaming, it's like already got,

985
00:42:32,660 --> 00:42:34,880
S3: you know, it's kind of trajectory. Whereas the fact that

986
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,040
S3: it's just going to like Land on Netflix this Friday,

987
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,440
S3: I don't know, like I think some people will be like, oh,

988
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,930
S3: it's like another Netflix movie, like, you know, one of

989
00:42:41,930 --> 00:42:44,120
S3: the Ryan Reynolds ones, or like, it's just going to

990
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,090
S3: be it could like accidentally end up in that category,

991
00:42:47,090 --> 00:42:48,080
S3: which is a shame.

992
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,690
S2: Yeah. I think like increasingly in the future, we're going

993
00:42:50,690 --> 00:42:52,400
S2: to see the types of films that have a cinema

994
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,460
S2: release versus the type that have a streamer release really

995
00:42:55,460 --> 00:42:59,930
S2: polarized to me. This film was made for Netflix. The plotting,

996
00:42:59,930 --> 00:43:04,700
S2: the shots, the pacing, all of it felt right for Netflix. Yes,

997
00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:06,440
S2: it would have been great in terms of the box

998
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,930
S2: office to get more people into the cinemas to see it,

999
00:43:08,930 --> 00:43:11,330
S2: but I think it works really well as a Netflix

1000
00:43:11,330 --> 00:43:14,029
S2: at home movie, and I also think it's a huge

1001
00:43:14,210 --> 00:43:17,390
S2: benefit for the film that so many people are going

1002
00:43:17,390 --> 00:43:18,560
S2: to be able to see it, and I think it's

1003
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,270
S2: going to cut through in a much bigger way than

1004
00:43:20,270 --> 00:43:22,190
S2: it would have if it had just been at the cinema,

1005
00:43:22,190 --> 00:43:24,950
S2: because we'll be all able to talk about it, access

1006
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:25,640
S2: it and see it.

1007
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,560
S3: But don't you think when people because like, because like

1008
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,170
S3: Netflix movies have become such a like kind of genre

1009
00:43:30,170 --> 00:43:33,169
S3: unto themselves, people will like watch it with already I guess,

1010
00:43:33,170 --> 00:43:34,759
S3: an idea of what it is in mind and then

1011
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,009
S3: maybe miss, I guess, like some of the best parts

1012
00:43:37,010 --> 00:43:39,230
S3: of the movie or miss what the movie really is saying.

1013
00:43:39,230 --> 00:43:41,330
S2: Well, potentially it sets the bar too low for the film,

1014
00:43:41,330 --> 00:43:44,210
S2: which it will then over exceed expectations, particularly having a

1015
00:43:44,210 --> 00:43:47,870
S2: name like Linklater attached to a film. Maybe it's about rebranding,

1016
00:43:47,870 --> 00:43:50,220
S2: or maybe that's what Netflix is doing. Rebranding what? A

1017
00:43:50,219 --> 00:43:52,560
S2: Netflix film is by getting a great director and a

1018
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:53,370
S2: quality film.

1019
00:43:53,370 --> 00:43:55,080
S3: I wonder what he thinks. I haven't really seen anything,

1020
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:55,770
S3: but he thinks.

1021
00:43:55,770 --> 00:43:58,739
S1: He's not particularly impressed with the situation. It's sort of

1022
00:43:58,739 --> 00:44:01,560
S1: funny because Netflix is his sugar daddy here, but he's like,

1023
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,780
S1: we took it to these, uh, film festivals, I think

1024
00:44:03,780 --> 00:44:07,650
S1: premiered at Venice. It got a huge reaction. And the

1025
00:44:07,650 --> 00:44:09,839
S1: studio is just like weren't interested in it, which feels

1026
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,060
S1: like a massive miss from them when everything else is

1027
00:44:12,060 --> 00:44:14,400
S1: sort of failing to launch right now. Why wouldn't they?

1028
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,069
S1: I think the movie cost $11 million and Netflix bought

1029
00:44:17,070 --> 00:44:19,110
S1: it for $20 million, which is not a crazy amount

1030
00:44:19,110 --> 00:44:21,660
S1: of money. And he's trying to tell people to watch

1031
00:44:21,660 --> 00:44:23,640
S1: because I think in the US it's getting a couple

1032
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,649
S1: of weeks in theaters. He's like, please try and watch

1033
00:44:25,650 --> 00:44:28,320
S1: it there. It's like, good on him for like taking

1034
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,930
S1: the Netflix bag and then also saying, go to movie

1035
00:44:30,930 --> 00:44:33,900
S1: theaters and watch this. Don't watch this at home. I yeah,

1036
00:44:33,900 --> 00:44:35,460
S1: I guess I just hope that people watch it. I

1037
00:44:35,460 --> 00:44:37,710
S1: think I think there's a risk. I mean, the killer

1038
00:44:37,710 --> 00:44:40,379
S1: was like a top tier movie by a top tier

1039
00:44:40,410 --> 00:44:45,509
S1: director that didn't really, like become a phenomenon on Netflix. Mank, which,

1040
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:47,069
S1: you know, the movie that I always talk about.

1041
00:44:47,610 --> 00:44:48,510
S6: Is also like just.

1042
00:44:48,510 --> 00:44:50,160
S1: An awesome movie that is sitting there on Netflix. So

1043
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,500
S1: there's a there is there is like a world in

1044
00:44:52,500 --> 00:44:55,350
S1: which this doesn't hit. But I think unlike those movies,

1045
00:44:55,350 --> 00:44:59,279
S1: which are pretty self-serious and a bit darker, you can

1046
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,710
S1: see the title card of this, right? Like Glen Powell

1047
00:45:01,710 --> 00:45:04,410
S1: and Adria Arjona and they're they're like kissing or whatever.

1048
00:45:04,410 --> 00:45:06,480
S1: And people are like, fuck yeah, let's go.

1049
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,719
S3: Smells like, oh, yuck. Like what they really should have

1050
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,000
S3: done is like, it should have been the reverse situation

1051
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,310
S3: for this and for Guy like for guy belongs straight

1052
00:45:14,310 --> 00:45:16,500
S3: on Netflix. And this if had they given this maybe

1053
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:17,820
S3: if they fucking shot it on the Harbour Bridge I

1054
00:45:17,820 --> 00:45:19,890
S3: don't know. But like if they, if they had given

1055
00:45:19,890 --> 00:45:22,469
S3: this like the big, you know, studio push that fall

1056
00:45:22,469 --> 00:45:25,410
S3: guy got like the quality. It feels like it's the

1057
00:45:25,410 --> 00:45:25,859
S3: wrong way around.

1058
00:45:25,860 --> 00:45:27,570
S2: Yeah. I thought a lot about the fall guy when

1059
00:45:27,570 --> 00:45:29,550
S2: I was watching this. And before when you were talking

1060
00:45:29,550 --> 00:45:32,279
S2: about Powell not being a Ryan Gosling, I kind of

1061
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,529
S2: think he could be a Ryan Gosling and Ryan Gosling's

1062
00:45:34,530 --> 00:45:36,960
S2: so-called funny era. Like, I could see Glen Powell being

1063
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,520
S2: in Barbie, being in fall Guy.

1064
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,980
S1: Yeah, it's crazy that they paid like $180 million to

1065
00:45:40,980 --> 00:45:42,779
S1: make fall Guy. And no one's like, should we, like,

1066
00:45:42,780 --> 00:45:46,140
S1: outbid Netflix by $2 million and have, like, a very

1067
00:45:46,140 --> 00:45:49,680
S1: cheap $11 million movie that could make $150 million?

1068
00:45:50,070 --> 00:45:52,739
S2: Yeah, I think all the signs are in place that

1069
00:45:52,739 --> 00:45:55,770
S2: this will hope will take off on Netflix. It's getting

1070
00:45:55,770 --> 00:45:58,890
S2: really great. Early reviews. The Glen Powell is a man

1071
00:45:58,890 --> 00:46:03,570
S2: of the moment, not Glenn Close. And yeah, and Richard

1072
00:46:03,570 --> 00:46:05,340
S2: Linklater is a huge name who doesn't put out a

1073
00:46:05,340 --> 00:46:08,430
S2: stack of films. So it will be really interesting if

1074
00:46:08,430 --> 00:46:10,620
S2: this doesn't cut through because yeah, I think that will

1075
00:46:10,620 --> 00:46:12,930
S2: be something we should revisit because if it doesn't make

1076
00:46:12,930 --> 00:46:15,120
S2: it through, it will be saying something.

1077
00:46:15,180 --> 00:46:16,649
S1: If it doesn't make it through, we should just like

1078
00:46:16,650 --> 00:46:17,910
S1: pack up the podcast and.

1079
00:46:17,910 --> 00:46:18,900
S6: How it.

1080
00:46:18,900 --> 00:46:21,450
S3: Is so funny though, like having obviously thinking about Linklater

1081
00:46:21,450 --> 00:46:24,000
S3: so much, like we talked about, um, you know, funny

1082
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,219
S3: IMDb back catalogs last week. He's got like when you

1083
00:46:26,219 --> 00:46:29,100
S3: look at his collection of films, they're quite odd altogether,

1084
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:30,060
S3: like in a row. Yeah.

1085
00:46:30,060 --> 00:46:32,910
S1: Let's have the Linklater conversation, because I don't think we've

1086
00:46:32,910 --> 00:46:35,250
S1: really talked about it much on the podcast. And like

1087
00:46:35,250 --> 00:46:36,780
S1: I said, I was doing a bit of a rewatch.

1088
00:46:36,780 --> 00:46:39,480
S1: I'm like, wow, low key. Maybe like my second favorite

1089
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,020
S1: director after Soderbergh. It is such a fascinating and diverse.

1090
00:46:43,020 --> 00:46:45,750
S1: And like you said, Tom's weird filmography. His most recent

1091
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:49,170
S1: film before this is this animated feature, Apollo ten and

1092
00:46:49,170 --> 00:46:51,779
S1: a half, which is like also has Glen Powell in it.

1093
00:46:51,780 --> 00:46:55,650
S1: It's about like a kid watching the space race is.

1094
00:46:55,980 --> 00:46:57,510
S1: I haven't seen it. I don't know if you guys

1095
00:46:57,510 --> 00:47:01,760
S1: have seen it, but. It throughout our probably most formative years,

1096
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,270
S1: like the late 90s, the early 2000, Linklater was making

1097
00:47:05,270 --> 00:47:08,690
S1: either these like coming of age or very existential and

1098
00:47:08,690 --> 00:47:12,169
S1: like movies that philosophy borrows. Like you, Thomas at uni

1099
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,719
S1: probably loved to watch and like talk to girls about.

1100
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,020
S1: And just like has in hindsight made some of the

1101
00:47:18,020 --> 00:47:21,050
S1: best movies you know, in the past like 50 years.

1102
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,200
S1: What were your relationships like to. To his work either

1103
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:25,700
S1: either growing up or now.

1104
00:47:26,340 --> 00:47:28,740
S3: I talked about before sunset on a lot of first dates,

1105
00:47:28,739 --> 00:47:31,380
S3: if I'm being honest. Um, just as a way of

1106
00:47:31,380 --> 00:47:34,050
S3: getting that in there. No, I like and I rewatched

1107
00:47:34,050 --> 00:47:35,969
S3: that movie last night. I know it has become a

1108
00:47:35,969 --> 00:47:38,040
S3: kind of like, you know, almost a punchline for a

1109
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:42,060
S3: certain type of person. It's still a great movie. I like, I,

1110
00:47:42,060 --> 00:47:43,860
S3: I think one of the, one of the movies I

1111
00:47:43,860 --> 00:47:46,110
S3: remember crying in quite openly was boyhood. Like, I thought

1112
00:47:46,110 --> 00:47:49,230
S3: that was an incredible feat of filmmaking. Like, I still

1113
00:47:49,230 --> 00:47:51,180
S3: reckon I could watch that movie and be, like, kind

1114
00:47:51,180 --> 00:47:53,700
S3: of messed up by it. Um, but then, but then, like,

1115
00:47:53,700 --> 00:47:56,490
S3: school of Rock is a fucking hilarious studio comedy, like

1116
00:47:56,489 --> 00:48:00,060
S3: with Jack black, probably in his best role. Like, it's. Yeah,

1117
00:48:00,060 --> 00:48:02,759
S3: I mean, it is funny, like thinking back about it,

1118
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,740
S3: I would say he's like, in my kind of top,

1119
00:48:04,980 --> 00:48:07,500
S3: top five directors of all time. Like, he he has

1120
00:48:07,500 --> 00:48:09,480
S3: a beautiful kind of collection of work. And also I

1121
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:11,040
S3: think and I think this might be true for both

1122
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:14,250
S3: of you, his specific style, his like, so, you know,

1123
00:48:14,250 --> 00:48:15,900
S3: like the way he kind of picks up threads of

1124
00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:17,640
S3: conversations that you have in real life and puts them

1125
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:19,799
S3: in movies, and it just feels so natural. Like that's

1126
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,360
S3: very much the type of thing we're all into. We're

1127
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,370
S3: all like, obviously big talkers. And so I just like

1128
00:48:23,370 --> 00:48:26,460
S3: love how well he captures the human condition. And yeah, um,

1129
00:48:26,460 --> 00:48:28,920
S3: I don't know, Before Sunrise trilogy, it's all just kind

1130
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:29,760
S3: of there for me.

1131
00:48:29,790 --> 00:48:34,440
S2: Yeah. I also love the the boldness of the vision.

1132
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,410
S2: Shooting the Before Sunrise films over such a long period

1133
00:48:37,410 --> 00:48:40,800
S2: of time. Boyhood over 12 years. The film he's working

1134
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,440
S2: on now, I think is over 20 years. Right? Yeah.

1135
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,719
S1: Merrily We Roll Along into Sondheim musical that I think

1136
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,930
S1: is like set over 20 years. But he's like, he's cast, uh,

1137
00:48:48,930 --> 00:48:53,040
S1: Paul Mescal and he's going to film them over 20 years. Um,

1138
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,870
S1: and I think the story, Merrily We Roll Along is

1139
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:59,339
S1: sort of in reverse chronological order. So it's a fascinating project.

1140
00:48:59,340 --> 00:49:01,890
S1: I kind of am very interested to see if it

1141
00:49:01,890 --> 00:49:03,690
S1: works out. But he did it with boyhood.

1142
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,569
S2: Yeah, exactly. And he'll be 80 by the time he

1143
00:49:06,570 --> 00:49:09,810
S2: finishes that. It does add something different and interesting to

1144
00:49:09,810 --> 00:49:13,650
S2: the films when you're getting these snapshots over time. I

1145
00:49:13,650 --> 00:49:17,730
S2: love his style. I think he's really interested in the

1146
00:49:17,730 --> 00:49:21,090
S2: fleeting moments, and it's kind of reflected in the plotlessness

1147
00:49:21,090 --> 00:49:23,640
S2: of a lot of these films, or even the subjects

1148
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,250
S2: like Dazed and Confused, which are these teenagers kind of

1149
00:49:26,250 --> 00:49:29,580
S2: moving around. So whether he's in his more sentimental or

1150
00:49:29,580 --> 00:49:35,610
S2: funny phase, that interest in moments of time and coincidences

1151
00:49:35,610 --> 00:49:38,880
S2: and what can be and isn't and could be that

1152
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,370
S2: runs through them all. And I really like that.

1153
00:49:41,370 --> 00:49:44,670
S1: Yeah, it's interesting how his films either like set on

1154
00:49:44,670 --> 00:49:47,609
S1: one day like the before trilogy or days confused or

1155
00:49:47,610 --> 00:49:51,029
S1: like over the space of decades. He's very interesting how

1156
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:54,149
S1: he can, like, use time in that way. And I

1157
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:56,100
S1: don't think it's cringe. Thomas, to say you like the

1158
00:49:56,100 --> 00:49:58,770
S1: before trilogy. I think maybe people made fun of people

1159
00:49:58,770 --> 00:50:01,170
S1: like us in uni, because we tried maybe to turn

1160
00:50:01,170 --> 00:50:04,919
S1: every first date into that experience. Um, but they're really good.

1161
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,950
S1: And particularly the second one before Sunset. It's like ten

1162
00:50:07,950 --> 00:50:10,890
S1: years on, Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy had more of

1163
00:50:10,890 --> 00:50:13,620
S1: a role in writing it. This is like just around

1164
00:50:13,620 --> 00:50:17,010
S1: the time or just after Ethan Hawke's separation from Uma Thurman.

1165
00:50:17,010 --> 00:50:20,760
S1: So there's so much like personal conflict poured into that,

1166
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,000
S1: and it is super entertaining and super interesting and super

1167
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,530
S1: thought provoking. I really love his kind of autobiographical cool,

1168
00:50:28,530 --> 00:50:32,640
S1: like dudes rock films like Dazed and Confused, which is

1169
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,700
S1: McConaughey's breakout. Like, that is an awesome movie. And then

1170
00:50:35,700 --> 00:50:37,440
S1: a movie that I hadn't watched, believe it or not,

1171
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:41,310
S1: until this weekend, is it's called, like, the spiritual successor

1172
00:50:41,310 --> 00:50:44,100
S1: to Daisy, confused, Everybody Wants Some. Dazed and confused is

1173
00:50:44,100 --> 00:50:47,340
S1: set in the 70s in Texas. This is set in 1980,

1174
00:50:47,340 --> 00:50:50,730
S1: and it's like a character very loosely based on Linklater,

1175
00:50:50,730 --> 00:50:53,310
S1: who goes to college on a baseball scholarship, and it's

1176
00:50:53,310 --> 00:50:55,470
S1: just set. Over the course of five days. He moves

1177
00:50:55,469 --> 00:50:57,779
S1: into this frat house and it's just before class starts.

1178
00:50:57,780 --> 00:51:01,290
S1: And it's there's a lot of echoes of this film

1179
00:51:01,290 --> 00:51:04,980
S1: in hitman, where it's about a young kid being exposed

1180
00:51:04,980 --> 00:51:07,379
S1: to these new ideas, these new kinds of music, new

1181
00:51:07,380 --> 00:51:09,600
S1: fashion styles, and trying to figure out who he is, like,

1182
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,520
S1: who am I in this new world? I've come from

1183
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,500
S1: this small town. Am I a punk? Like, that was

1184
00:51:13,500 --> 00:51:15,719
S1: kind of fun, but I'm actually like a country guy.

1185
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:17,970
S1: I'm going to the Soul Train kind of disco nights.

1186
00:51:17,969 --> 00:51:20,790
S1: I want to like, meet girls. But what version of

1187
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:22,800
S1: myself do I show off to do that, to kind

1188
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,810
S1: of get all of those ideas and what is just

1189
00:51:24,810 --> 00:51:27,510
S1: like a teen comedy and kind of like a stoner

1190
00:51:27,510 --> 00:51:30,450
S1: comedy is really, really impressive. Um, and then he also

1191
00:51:30,450 --> 00:51:32,609
S1: has this other dynamic. I don't know if you guys

1192
00:51:32,610 --> 00:51:36,390
S1: have seen Bernie, the Jack black film. There's a really funny,

1193
00:51:36,390 --> 00:51:40,140
S1: interesting movie that is also based on a Skip Hollingsworth article. Uh,

1194
00:51:40,140 --> 00:51:42,150
S1: the guy who wrote the Hit man story about a

1195
00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:45,870
S1: real story about a funeral, uh, like Undertaker who ends

1196
00:51:45,870 --> 00:51:49,620
S1: up murdering a very wealthy older woman and taking her money.

1197
00:51:49,830 --> 00:51:52,050
S1: And it's very funny, and it's very, like, kind of

1198
00:51:52,050 --> 00:51:55,230
S1: dark in certain ways. And I feel like with Hit Man,

1199
00:51:55,230 --> 00:51:56,910
S1: what he's done. This is I promised you guys the

1200
00:51:56,910 --> 00:51:59,969
S1: grand unified theory of Linklater. I think. I think with

1201
00:51:59,969 --> 00:52:03,390
S1: Hit Man, he's taken the sort of fun vibe stuff

1202
00:52:03,390 --> 00:52:07,410
S1: that is always talked about independence and identity and what

1203
00:52:07,410 --> 00:52:09,720
S1: it means to be human. And he's merged it with

1204
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,900
S1: the kind of more crime focused, like, how does America

1205
00:52:12,900 --> 00:52:15,840
S1: really work? Like, what are the systems that operate, and

1206
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,180
S1: why do certain Americans do these things? And how do

1207
00:52:18,180 --> 00:52:20,339
S1: people end up on wrong sides of lawyers, brought them

1208
00:52:20,340 --> 00:52:23,040
S1: together in what is a pretty tight little package in

1209
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,140
S1: this film. And I don't know if Merrily We Roll

1210
00:52:25,140 --> 00:52:26,880
S1: Along will ever come. Often. I don't know how many

1211
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,700
S1: more movies he makes, but if this is like his,

1212
00:52:29,700 --> 00:52:31,799
S1: you know, putting it all in there and it's like

1213
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,719
S1: his peak, it's a pretty fucking good peak for him

1214
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:34,890
S1: to to go out on.

1215
00:52:34,890 --> 00:52:37,410
S3: Yeah. It's such a shame that he cast Paul Mescal though.

1216
00:52:38,010 --> 00:52:41,399
S3: I mean of all people. Yeah it is, it is

1217
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,160
S3: like it's a very impressive kind of career. And you

1218
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:46,080
S3: know he I think what you said he'll be in

1219
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,629
S3: his 80s by the time he finishes. Um, and you know,

1220
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:50,819
S3: there is obviously he's been doing the press rounds to

1221
00:52:50,820 --> 00:52:53,069
S3: promote this and he's talked about how like, oh, but

1222
00:52:53,070 --> 00:52:55,680
S3: I'd love to be making movies until, you know, I'm

1223
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,109
S3: in I'm in my 90s, which is very impressive. But

1224
00:52:58,110 --> 00:53:00,540
S3: it is funny, like talking about obviously this obsession with

1225
00:53:00,540 --> 00:53:03,690
S3: identity and everything. And even now, like in his whatever,

1226
00:53:03,690 --> 00:53:06,060
S3: he must be in his 60s now and he's making

1227
00:53:06,060 --> 00:53:09,000
S3: films still exploring that concept. And he spoke about in

1228
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,730
S3: an interview that I read recently like, well, like, do

1229
00:53:11,730 --> 00:53:13,680
S3: you I think the interview asked him, do you find

1230
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,540
S3: that you're still searching for your identity? He's like, oh, look,

1231
00:53:15,540 --> 00:53:17,760
S3: to be honest, I think I've probably found it. And like, really,

1232
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,740
S3: that is like I'm a film director, like I am

1233
00:53:19,739 --> 00:53:22,500
S3: my most myself on set. And do you think then

1234
00:53:22,500 --> 00:53:25,620
S3: if you look at like the Linklater filmography as a whole,

1235
00:53:25,620 --> 00:53:28,200
S3: like he's trying to tell us that you can eventually

1236
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,180
S3: find who you are, are we supposed to find who

1237
00:53:30,180 --> 00:53:31,799
S3: we are or it doesn't really matter. And you can

1238
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,109
S3: keep trying on new things, even into your 60s and

1239
00:53:34,110 --> 00:53:35,250
S3: 70s and 80s.

1240
00:53:35,250 --> 00:53:38,520
S2: Yeah, I think that was the hit man. Kind of

1241
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:40,770
S2: ended at the point that you can be whoever you

1242
00:53:40,770 --> 00:53:45,060
S2: want consistently, and remaking yourself is part of the experience

1243
00:53:45,060 --> 00:53:47,819
S2: of human life, that we're constantly coming of age. And

1244
00:53:47,820 --> 00:53:50,790
S2: the idea that you have to be one thing always

1245
00:53:50,790 --> 00:53:54,300
S2: and that you're not going to change. I think it

1246
00:53:54,300 --> 00:53:57,450
S2: was questioning that because as we as we've seen Glen

1247
00:53:57,450 --> 00:53:59,759
S2: Powell's complete transition over the course of the film, I

1248
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,489
S2: think the end result is, yeah, you can be whoever

1249
00:54:02,489 --> 00:54:03,240
S2: you want to be.

1250
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,580
S3: So that means I'm 35 today. I can cut this

1251
00:54:05,580 --> 00:54:06,810
S3: like it's like a do a refresh.

1252
00:54:06,810 --> 00:54:08,430
S6: Yeah, yeah. Who do you want to be? You're a

1253
00:54:08,430 --> 00:54:09,989
S6: denim jacket, dude. Now, I know.

1254
00:54:09,989 --> 00:54:13,620
S3: Maybe I might become like the bookish guy of the pod.

1255
00:54:13,650 --> 00:54:16,500
S3: I will become like the philosopher. Maybe we can do

1256
00:54:16,500 --> 00:54:18,600
S3: a switch up like a Freaky Friday.

1257
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:19,739
S2: I'm excited to embody my.

1258
00:54:19,980 --> 00:54:20,430
S6: Every.

1259
00:54:20,430 --> 00:54:23,400
S1: Every episode. We should just reinvent our personalities. In honor

1260
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:27,120
S1: of Richard Linklater. That's a very beautiful, uh, summation ummul

1261
00:54:27,150 --> 00:54:30,180
S1: of the the way that he's been in dialogue. This

1262
00:54:30,180 --> 00:54:32,069
S1: movie's in dialogue with a lot of his earlier films.

1263
00:54:32,070 --> 00:54:35,219
S1: If I had to hitman esque put a gun to

1264
00:54:35,219 --> 00:54:38,310
S1: your guys heads and say, tell me your favorite ever

1265
00:54:38,310 --> 00:54:41,370
S1: film by Richard Linklater, what would you say?

1266
00:54:41,969 --> 00:54:45,180
S2: Um, I, I'm going to say Before Sunrise. I still

1267
00:54:45,180 --> 00:54:49,290
S2: love it. I think about it a lot. It's the

1268
00:54:49,290 --> 00:54:52,710
S2: way it's this epic film, but it's told so intimately.

1269
00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:54,540
S2: And I don't know if you remember, there's this scene

1270
00:54:54,540 --> 00:54:56,790
S2: when Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy, they put on a

1271
00:54:56,790 --> 00:54:59,219
S2: record and it's a Kath Bloom song, and it's this

1272
00:54:59,219 --> 00:55:01,590
S2: really long shot, and they're kind of looking at each

1273
00:55:01,590 --> 00:55:04,050
S2: other and then looking away, and it's so awkward, but

1274
00:55:04,050 --> 00:55:07,920
S2: it's so much possibility and potential. There's all this unspoken

1275
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,040
S2: ness in the silence. I, I think I know, as

1276
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:12,839
S2: we were saying before, that, you know, it's now got

1277
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:14,580
S2: a reputation of being a bit naff and it's a

1278
00:55:14,580 --> 00:55:18,270
S2: bit of a punch line sometimes, but I still think

1279
00:55:18,270 --> 00:55:21,780
S2: it's a really spellbinding film that manages to do it

1280
00:55:21,780 --> 00:55:24,300
S2: without being treacly, sentimental.

1281
00:55:24,630 --> 00:55:26,850
S3: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's an amazing series and kind

1282
00:55:26,850 --> 00:55:29,520
S3: of Osmond like you touched on before, it really made it. Okay. Um,

1283
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:31,799
S3: in my broker years to just make dates where you

1284
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,560
S3: just walked around for hours and it, it made it

1285
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,450
S3: less cheap and more kind of romantic. But you were broke.

1286
00:55:36,450 --> 00:55:38,190
S1: Because you kept flying them to Vienna. I think that

1287
00:55:38,190 --> 00:55:38,759
S1: was the problem.

1288
00:55:41,100 --> 00:55:43,920
S3: Very good. Uh, I also love those films, but I

1289
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,259
S3: would go with boyhood. Um, I remember being really, like,

1290
00:55:46,260 --> 00:55:49,290
S3: really properly blown away by the first time I saw that. And,

1291
00:55:49,290 --> 00:55:52,529
S3: you know, I was a boy once. Um, and, and

1292
00:55:52,530 --> 00:55:54,510
S3: so I think it like, it did really speak to

1293
00:55:54,510 --> 00:55:56,700
S3: me and just like, you know, I love films about

1294
00:55:56,700 --> 00:55:59,400
S3: family dynamics. I thought the in terms of a feat

1295
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,820
S3: of filmmaking, it was so impressive. Um, Ethan Hawke, obviously

1296
00:56:02,940 --> 00:56:05,400
S3: such a long time Linklater collaborator, was incredible in that.

1297
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,129
S3: And so was Patricia Arquette. Uh, yeah. I think, you know,

1298
00:56:08,130 --> 00:56:12,209
S3: it's we don't get many pieces of art that really, like,

1299
00:56:12,210 --> 00:56:15,750
S3: go so deep into helping us think about these things. Um,

1300
00:56:15,750 --> 00:56:18,270
S3: just the pure like effort he put into it really, like,

1301
00:56:18,270 --> 00:56:20,279
S3: takes you on that journey. And yeah, boyhood for me

1302
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:21,660
S3: will always be an important film.

1303
00:56:22,020 --> 00:56:24,330
S1: Great recommendations. I think I got to go with Dazed

1304
00:56:24,330 --> 00:56:27,360
S1: and Confused, his second film. It's just like the amount

1305
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:31,080
S1: of stars in that movie Ben Affleck, Parker Posey, Matthew McConaughey. Like,

1306
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,980
S1: it's crazy. And it's just like, what happens? Nothing. But

1307
00:56:35,010 --> 00:56:37,350
S1: is it fun? Is it awesome? Do you think a

1308
00:56:37,350 --> 00:56:40,950
S1: little bit about, like, being nostalgic for a time that

1309
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:42,990
S1: you never lived through? Like, that's the crazy thing about

1310
00:56:42,989 --> 00:56:45,030
S1: that movie. I want to go back to the 70s

1311
00:56:45,030 --> 00:56:47,040
S1: and my American high school and just drive around with

1312
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,469
S1: my friends and, you know, just hang out and smoke

1313
00:56:49,469 --> 00:56:51,270
S1: weed and drink beer and play pool. I never fucking

1314
00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:52,740
S1: did that. I didn't live in America in the 70s.

1315
00:56:52,739 --> 00:56:55,350
S1: But he makes you want to do that in a

1316
00:56:55,350 --> 00:56:58,080
S1: way that is genuinely beautiful and very funny. And it's awesome.

1317
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:01,950
S1: And watching that next to everybody wants some. I just

1318
00:57:01,950 --> 00:57:03,660
S1: think you're not gonna have a better four hours than,

1319
00:57:03,660 --> 00:57:04,529
S1: than doing that.

1320
00:57:04,530 --> 00:57:06,600
S2: Yeah, I agree, and there are so many great scenes

1321
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,120
S2: in Dazed and Confused, the kind of whole conversation about,

1322
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,580
S2: is it Barbara Bush that they have? Yeah, yeah.

1323
00:57:11,580 --> 00:57:12,420
S6: Yeah, yeah.

1324
00:57:13,110 --> 00:57:14,790
S2: It's uh, it's a great film.

1325
00:57:14,790 --> 00:57:16,890
S3: Yeah. And he gave us McConaughey, which is really like

1326
00:57:16,890 --> 00:57:18,150
S3: the gift that keeps on giving.

1327
00:57:18,150 --> 00:57:22,350
S1: Absolutely. Um, okay, so time to wrap up the show

1328
00:57:22,350 --> 00:57:25,900
S1: with our Impress Your Friend segment. We'll. We recommend something

1329
00:57:25,900 --> 00:57:29,650
S1: we watched listen to read otherwise consumed in the wake

1330
00:57:29,650 --> 00:57:32,860
S1: of culture. I'll go first. It's a cheat because I

1331
00:57:32,860 --> 00:57:35,770
S1: have been very both busy and ill and have just

1332
00:57:35,770 --> 00:57:39,310
S1: watched Richard Linklater films for the past week, so mine

1333
00:57:39,310 --> 00:57:40,870
S1: is a theme that we've referenced a couple of times

1334
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:43,510
S1: on this podcast. It's an interview that Richard Linklater did

1335
00:57:43,510 --> 00:57:46,689
S1: with The New York Times for their The Interview podcast.

1336
00:57:46,690 --> 00:57:49,300
S1: It's a really interesting format. They basically do this big

1337
00:57:49,300 --> 00:57:52,810
S1: interview with a personality that chalerm and the God on

1338
00:57:52,810 --> 00:57:54,760
S1: a couple of weeks ago, and then they check back

1339
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:56,590
S1: in with that person, like a few days later after

1340
00:57:56,590 --> 00:58:00,460
S1: something's happened and just get their delayed reactions to the

1341
00:58:00,460 --> 00:58:02,620
S1: things that they talked about. It's a really interesting format.

1342
00:58:02,620 --> 00:58:05,590
S1: It's a cool interview series, and the Linklater one is

1343
00:58:05,590 --> 00:58:08,110
S1: just like, really wonderful. Even if you haven't seen the

1344
00:58:08,110 --> 00:58:10,390
S1: film yet, it's great, but I think it reaches like

1345
00:58:10,390 --> 00:58:12,550
S1: another depth of meaning when you've seen the film and

1346
00:58:12,550 --> 00:58:14,830
S1: you understand what he's talking about, what he's trying to do.

1347
00:58:14,830 --> 00:58:16,000
S1: So that's my rec.

1348
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,490
S3: Yeah, it's really cool in that interview. Exactly that how

1349
00:58:18,490 --> 00:58:20,410
S3: it works. Because he asks him a question I think

1350
00:58:20,410 --> 00:58:22,540
S3: specifically about, like, do you still enjoy movies in the

1351
00:58:22,540 --> 00:58:24,460
S3: same way as you did back in your era, when

1352
00:58:24,460 --> 00:58:26,650
S3: you would watch 600 a year? And he gives a

1353
00:58:26,650 --> 00:58:28,840
S3: kind of, you know, an answer in the first interview,

1354
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:30,490
S3: and then when they catch up a few days later,

1355
00:58:30,490 --> 00:58:31,750
S3: he kind of comes to him and he's like, hey,

1356
00:58:31,750 --> 00:58:34,090
S3: I really like, you know, sat on that question and

1357
00:58:34,090 --> 00:58:36,220
S3: I feel like I didn't give the question the answer

1358
00:58:36,220 --> 00:58:37,810
S3: it deserves. So like, I love how they do that

1359
00:58:37,810 --> 00:58:40,000
S3: kind of split interview and like, you kind of get

1360
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,100
S3: like a different sense of the person a few days later.

1361
00:58:42,100 --> 00:58:42,460
S3: And I also.

1362
00:58:42,460 --> 00:58:45,040
S2: Think Richard Linklater in all these interviews, just comes across

1363
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,200
S2: as a great guy. And Dennis and I were talking

1364
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,780
S2: earlier about how his whole aesthetic, he kind of seems

1365
00:58:49,780 --> 00:58:52,570
S2: like the guy who should be a sound engineer at. Yeah,

1366
00:58:52,780 --> 00:58:55,240
S2: at a gig. Yeah, yeah, he's just none of the

1367
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,450
S2: pretension of an auteur, which, you know, sometimes is fun,

1368
00:58:58,450 --> 00:59:01,360
S2: but he just seems like a good human, too.

1369
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:01,690
S6: Yeah.

1370
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,270
S3: No, he seems like a cool guy. I'm into him, obviously.

1371
00:59:05,230 --> 00:59:07,690
S1: Um. Thomas, what have.

1372
00:59:07,690 --> 00:59:09,790
S3: You got for us? Uh, my one, this is actually

1373
00:59:09,790 --> 00:59:11,440
S3: this one you can impress your friends with next week

1374
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,900
S3: when this comes out, but it's actually the new standard.

1375
00:59:13,930 --> 00:59:17,320
S3: Everything must go from Hannah Einbinder from hacks. Now, look,

1376
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:18,880
S3: I would say hacks. I don't know about you guys,

1377
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,370
S3: but everyone in my circle is, like, really watching and

1378
00:59:21,370 --> 00:59:22,570
S3: loving season three.

1379
00:59:22,660 --> 00:59:23,410
S1: Absolutely. Yeah.

1380
00:59:23,410 --> 00:59:25,570
S3: It's like, you know, season three can be a tricky

1381
00:59:25,570 --> 00:59:27,850
S3: time for comedy shows. I feel like hacks is like

1382
00:59:27,850 --> 00:59:30,640
S3: leveled up again. It's just been renewed for season four,

1383
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,400
S3: which you can watch on Stan. Um, I haven't seen

1384
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,740
S3: her do stand up before. Um, I got sent the screener.

1385
00:59:35,740 --> 00:59:38,860
S3: It's very, very funny. She talks, you know, about her faith,

1386
00:59:38,860 --> 00:59:42,310
S3: her obviously, her sexuality, her family. You know, her parents

1387
00:59:42,310 --> 00:59:45,070
S3: went to, like, insane lengths, you know, kind of doing these,

1388
00:59:45,070 --> 00:59:47,770
S3: you know, like, rituals and recommendations to try and have

1389
00:59:47,770 --> 00:59:49,390
S3: a boy. And they had her and she tells some

1390
00:59:49,390 --> 00:59:51,460
S3: really funny stories about that. She's kind of having a

1391
00:59:51,460 --> 00:59:54,070
S3: moment right now anyway. But that's, uh, Everything Must Go,

1392
00:59:54,070 --> 00:59:57,520
S3: which hits binge, uh, on Thursday, June 13th. But I'm

1393
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:59,140
S3: telling you now, it will impress your friends when you

1394
00:59:59,140 --> 01:00:00,730
S3: watch them and tell them to watch it, too.

1395
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,530
S1: She plays Ava on Hacks.

1396
01:00:02,530 --> 01:00:04,689
S3: Yes, she plays Ava, the young, kind of like comic.

1397
01:00:04,690 --> 01:00:06,910
S2: Yes, she's very good. And you've also been reading a

1398
01:00:06,910 --> 01:00:08,980
S2: book that we talked about on the pod when you

1399
01:00:08,980 --> 01:00:10,030
S2: were away? Yes.

1400
01:00:10,030 --> 01:00:13,270
S3: All fours by Miranda July. Fuck me. It's amazing. But

1401
01:00:13,270 --> 01:00:15,100
S3: not only that. Oseman, I've been meaning to tell you this.

1402
01:00:15,100 --> 01:00:18,280
S3: I am reading Mel's copy, which has been like, oh my.

1403
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:19,570
S1: God, dog eared. There's notes in.

1404
01:00:19,570 --> 01:00:23,680
S3: There. Oh my God, the underlining is so revealing. Um, also,

1405
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,570
S3: there's like all these I need like a legend to

1406
01:00:25,570 --> 01:00:28,240
S3: read it because, like, there's like arrows here and then

1407
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,030
S3: like squiggles here and then like, must revisit. It's like,

1408
01:00:31,030 --> 01:00:33,730
S3: so stressful to read Mel's notes. She's having like, as

1409
01:00:33,730 --> 01:00:35,830
S3: I get deeper into the book, she's having like, a breakdown.

1410
01:00:35,830 --> 01:00:36,220
S6: This is.

1411
01:00:36,220 --> 01:00:37,030
S2: Why I did not.

1412
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:39,130
S6: Want to give you this book. Why can you can

1413
01:00:39,130 --> 01:00:39,400
S6: you pass.

1414
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:40,120
S1: It on to me when you're.

1415
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:40,630
S6: Done, please?

1416
01:00:40,630 --> 01:00:43,540
S2: No, no. Yes. This is like the inner workings.

1417
01:00:43,540 --> 01:00:45,760
S1: But to your credit, Mel, and to your defense, rather,

1418
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:47,890
S1: I should say you were interviewing Miranda July. Right? So

1419
01:00:47,890 --> 01:00:50,590
S1: presumably this was like note taking, or is it just

1420
01:00:50,590 --> 01:00:53,410
S1: something you do, like you're reading Little Women and you're like,

1421
01:00:53,410 --> 01:00:55,630
S1: God damn, that fucking line.

1422
01:00:55,630 --> 01:00:57,010
S6: Has never hit harder.

1423
01:00:57,310 --> 01:00:59,890
S2: The fact you picked little women, I mean, I've got

1424
01:00:59,890 --> 01:01:03,250
S2: to give you I've got to give you credit for that. Uh, no,

1425
01:01:03,250 --> 01:01:05,170
S2: it was in preparation for the interview. That's not my

1426
01:01:05,170 --> 01:01:07,840
S2: normal reading habit. But you are right, I do have.

1427
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:10,180
S2: I have worked out such a good system that you

1428
01:01:10,180 --> 01:01:13,150
S2: really do need a legend to understand what the different signs,

1429
01:01:13,150 --> 01:01:15,340
S2: symbols and things mean.

1430
01:01:15,340 --> 01:01:17,260
S3: There's a lot going on. But the book, uh, you've

1431
01:01:17,260 --> 01:01:19,240
S3: obviously read it. Uh, Osman. It's amazing. Lots of people

1432
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:20,620
S3: I know are reading it. Um, so I don't need

1433
01:01:20,620 --> 01:01:22,060
S3: to recommend it to anyone because I feel like it's

1434
01:01:22,060 --> 01:01:25,570
S3: out there. But yes. Um, as someone who's often considered myself,

1435
01:01:25,570 --> 01:01:29,080
S3: you know, worthy of working at a Hertz rental car service,

1436
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:30,610
S3: I really I really enjoy it.

1437
01:01:30,730 --> 01:01:33,850
S1: Nice one. Um, Mel. Lucky last. What have you.

1438
01:01:33,850 --> 01:01:34,300
S6: Got?

1439
01:01:34,300 --> 01:01:37,240
S2: Well, if I got to do the Glenn Powell switcheroo

1440
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:39,700
S2: and kind of had my time again, I often think

1441
01:01:39,700 --> 01:01:43,180
S2: I would love to be an art historian or an

1442
01:01:43,180 --> 01:01:45,790
S2: art curator, so I often read a lot of books

1443
01:01:45,790 --> 01:01:48,430
S2: about art. The one I've read at the moment is

1444
01:01:48,430 --> 01:01:51,460
S2: called The Story of Art Without Men. It's by Katy Hessel,

1445
01:01:51,490 --> 01:01:54,520
S2: who was at the Sydney Writers Festival just recently. She's

1446
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,040
S2: an art historian, a presenter, she's a curator. She's got

1447
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:00,010
S2: this great Instagram page, um, and a podcast called The

1448
01:02:00,010 --> 01:02:03,610
S2: Great Women Artists. She's done a history of Western art

1449
01:02:03,610 --> 01:02:07,480
S2: movements from the 1500s to the 2020s. It's a really

1450
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:11,620
S2: nicely engaging, like it's very readable. It's not an austere

1451
01:02:11,620 --> 01:02:14,110
S2: art history book, and it's kind of a response to

1452
01:02:14,110 --> 01:02:16,630
S2: the classic chronicle, The Story of Art. It was published

1453
01:02:16,630 --> 01:02:19,900
S2: in 1950, and it was only recently updated to include

1454
01:02:19,900 --> 01:02:23,710
S2: one woman in it. So it's almost a response to that. Wow.

1455
01:02:23,710 --> 01:02:26,660
S2: It's a beautiful book. My own. Issue is its hardback

1456
01:02:26,930 --> 01:02:29,870
S2: gloss pages. It is so heavy. I'm like working out

1457
01:02:29,870 --> 01:02:31,880
S2: every time I read it. Or at least are there like.

1458
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:32,570
S6: Pictures of.

1459
01:02:32,570 --> 01:02:34,130
S1: Art in it? Is it like pretty inside?

1460
01:02:34,130 --> 01:02:36,380
S2: There are. It's very pretty. Lots of pictures to keep

1461
01:02:36,380 --> 01:02:37,100
S2: you engaged. Did you know.

1462
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:41,210
S1: That in 1989, less than 5% of the artists in

1463
01:02:41,210 --> 01:02:44,690
S1: the modern art sections of British galleries are women, but 85%

1464
01:02:44,690 --> 01:02:46,340
S1: of the nudes were women.

1465
01:02:46,730 --> 01:02:50,720
S2: Wow. I didn't know that specific statistic, but it makes

1466
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:51,380
S2: it stacks up.

1467
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:53,780
S1: That I read that in a review I just pulled

1468
01:02:53,780 --> 01:02:55,580
S1: up of this book, so it sounds very interesting.

1469
01:02:55,580 --> 01:02:58,550
S3: That's actually Osman keeps a blog about statistics around nudes.

1470
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,170
S2: Well, I will uh, this one. I haven't made notes

1471
01:03:03,170 --> 01:03:05,780
S2: in it because I preserved the sanctity of this art.

1472
01:03:05,810 --> 01:03:08,330
S1: Hard copy books. I feel like you can't. Like it feels.

1473
01:03:08,330 --> 01:03:09,200
S1: That feels wrong.

1474
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:10,760
S3: Yes. And can I just say it would not be

1475
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,250
S3: a book recommendation without me discussing the cover? It's been

1476
01:03:13,250 --> 01:03:15,890
S3: sitting on Mel's desk. This cover will look hectic on

1477
01:03:15,890 --> 01:03:19,010
S3: your Instagram. It's big and yellow with like blocky text.

1478
01:03:19,010 --> 01:03:21,050
S3: It's a very cool cover. So yeah, even if you

1479
01:03:21,050 --> 01:03:22,850
S3: want to buy it but not read it or you

1480
01:03:22,850 --> 01:03:25,160
S3: get bored by it, it's definitely worth, um, posting about.

1481
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,620
S2: Yeah, you can impress your friends without actually having to

1482
01:03:27,620 --> 01:03:28,160
S2: do any work.

1483
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:28,610
S6: We need to.

1484
01:03:28,610 --> 01:03:31,340
S1: Add a section to this, which is just what Tomas

1485
01:03:31,340 --> 01:03:34,190
S1: recommends for you to post on your Instagram without having

1486
01:03:34,190 --> 01:03:35,209
S1: consumed to just seem.

1487
01:03:35,210 --> 01:03:37,040
S6: Cool. Exactly.

1488
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:38,060
S3: Sorry my love.

1489
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,340
S1: Mel and Thomas take it Thomas, have a great rest

1490
01:03:40,340 --> 01:03:42,170
S1: of your birthday. Up the blues.

1491
01:03:42,170 --> 01:03:43,850
S3: Yes thank you. I will let you know what my

1492
01:03:43,850 --> 01:03:44,810
S3: new identity is.

1493
01:03:44,810 --> 01:03:45,950
S6: Happy birthday, big T!

1494
01:03:49,780 --> 01:03:52,840
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong.

1495
01:03:52,870 --> 01:03:55,060
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,

1496
01:03:55,060 --> 01:03:57,580
S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app.

1497
01:03:57,580 --> 01:03:59,710
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share the episode

1498
01:03:59,710 --> 01:04:02,500
S1: with a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui. See you next week!