1 00:00:07,350 --> 00:00:10,860 S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a 2 00:00:10,860 --> 00:00:13,650 S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald. In the age, 3 00:00:13,650 --> 00:00:15,990 S1: we dive into the latest in the world of pop 4 00:00:15,990 --> 00:00:21,239 S1: culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and Mel Cadbury, folks. 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,940 S1: We're back. You're excited to be back. You're well, I am. 6 00:00:23,940 --> 00:00:26,610 S2: So excited to be back. I have really missed hanging 7 00:00:26,610 --> 00:00:28,650 S2: out with you guys here once a week. It's been 8 00:00:28,650 --> 00:00:30,420 S2: a real absence in my life. 9 00:00:30,570 --> 00:00:33,480 S3: Yeah, I'm so excited to be back. I think more importantly, 10 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:35,640 S3: you know, we're giving the fans what they want. The 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:37,650 S3: trio is back together and yeah, it's been a long 12 00:00:37,650 --> 00:00:39,029 S3: time off work and a long time since we've been 13 00:00:39,030 --> 00:00:40,920 S3: sitting here together. So very exciting. 14 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:42,690 S1: I also like that you guys are doing a really 15 00:00:42,690 --> 00:00:44,730 S1: good job of pretending, like we don't talk constantly and 16 00:00:44,729 --> 00:00:47,070 S1: all the time, and have a lot of very boring 17 00:00:47,070 --> 00:00:49,260 S1: work chats and slack chats throughout the day. This is 18 00:00:49,260 --> 00:00:51,479 S1: a good energy though. This is the first time we're 19 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,390 S1: sort of like sitting in the studio getting ready to 20 00:00:54,390 --> 00:00:56,430 S1: talk about everything that's going on in pop culture. I 21 00:00:56,430 --> 00:00:57,300 S1: think it's exciting. 22 00:00:57,300 --> 00:00:59,730 S2: Yeah, I feel like we're out. We have a WhatsApp dynamic, 23 00:00:59,730 --> 00:01:01,980 S2: a slack dynamic, and in real life dynamic, the. 24 00:01:01,980 --> 00:01:04,949 S3: WhatsApp dynamic very different to this, I would say. So 25 00:01:04,950 --> 00:01:06,539 S3: like this is a whole this is like being back 26 00:01:06,540 --> 00:01:09,000 S3: in this room is very different because I feel like 27 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,729 S3: especially you always been on WhatsApp, I feel like you're 28 00:01:11,730 --> 00:01:14,130 S3: maybe 50% of your best, whereas in here you're 100%. 29 00:01:14,340 --> 00:01:15,240 S2: That's a brutal. 30 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,690 S1: I don't give you guys 100% of my like attention 31 00:01:18,690 --> 00:01:21,330 S1: on WhatsApp. I'll admit that you got you got 20% 32 00:01:21,330 --> 00:01:23,880 S1: of my brain in the WhatsApp chat. But here you 33 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:25,920 S1: have like 110% of me. 34 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,390 S3: Yeah, I can feel it. I can feel all of 35 00:01:27,390 --> 00:01:28,140 S3: you here. 36 00:01:28,290 --> 00:01:30,630 S1: Yeah. And we're more likely in the WhatsApp chat to 37 00:01:30,630 --> 00:01:34,199 S1: be talking about certain leaked Drake videos than we are 38 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:35,130 S1: on the podcast. 39 00:01:35,310 --> 00:01:37,979 S2: Which made me watch this morning. I did. 40 00:01:37,980 --> 00:01:39,540 S3: I didn't I didn't make you watch it, but you 41 00:01:39,540 --> 00:01:41,670 S3: were curious to watch it. And then Mel was like, 42 00:01:41,910 --> 00:01:44,610 S3: she had all the emotions in the 13 seconds. So yeah. 43 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:46,920 S2: It actually took me a while to realize what was 44 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:47,400 S2: going on. 45 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:48,390 S3: I'm not going to say that. 46 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,410 S1: And so it has been a minute since we've all 47 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,230 S1: been together on the pod, and there's like a lot 48 00:01:55,230 --> 00:01:58,590 S1: to talk about, but I actually think we need to 49 00:01:58,590 --> 00:02:01,920 S1: start with something that that surprised me on my social 50 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,490 S1: feed this morning. It was a video of a certain 51 00:02:05,490 --> 00:02:10,290 S1: Holly Candy Neve lands, and you might remember her from 52 00:02:10,290 --> 00:02:14,160 S1: her stint as Flik Skully from neighbors did not expect 53 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,620 S1: to be talking about holly villains or neighbors, but this 54 00:02:16,620 --> 00:02:19,260 S1: is like a big viral moment in Australia and the 55 00:02:19,260 --> 00:02:22,380 S1: world right now. Uh, yes. Just flick on neighbours. You 56 00:02:22,380 --> 00:02:26,400 S1: guys probably also remember her song Kiss Kiss from 2002, 57 00:02:26,430 --> 00:02:28,410 S1: but you did not know that that was a cover 58 00:02:28,410 --> 00:02:32,940 S1: of a 1997 Turkish song and an extra little fact 59 00:02:32,940 --> 00:02:35,850 S1: for you, Thomas. The first English language cover, which is 60 00:02:35,850 --> 00:02:39,450 S1: the one that Holly herself actually covered, was by a 61 00:02:39,450 --> 00:02:44,040 S1: great American singer, Stella Salil. Like, that's pretty cool. 62 00:02:44,310 --> 00:02:47,310 S3: That's perfect. I love Greek facts, as we know. Uh, 63 00:02:47,310 --> 00:02:49,260 S3: obviously don't want to get into the whole Ottoman Empire 64 00:02:49,260 --> 00:02:52,290 S3: situation so early in the pod. Uh, but also, I've 65 00:02:52,290 --> 00:02:54,269 S3: always I was always more of a naughty girl guy 66 00:02:54,270 --> 00:02:56,010 S3: as opposed to kiss kiss. But really. 67 00:02:56,010 --> 00:02:57,570 S1: No, I was a big kiss kiss fan. 68 00:02:57,570 --> 00:02:59,460 S3: Yeah, that was in the era when, like all the 69 00:02:59,460 --> 00:03:01,860 S3: film clips of that era, everyone was like, sweating. And 70 00:03:01,860 --> 00:03:05,340 S3: it was always raining. Um, inside of rain. Yeah, that 71 00:03:05,340 --> 00:03:06,899 S3: was a good hot, wet era. 72 00:03:08,700 --> 00:03:09,119 S4: Yeah. 73 00:03:11,190 --> 00:03:11,460 S2: Good. 74 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:16,980 S1: Um, villains has been keeping a pretty low profile for 75 00:03:16,980 --> 00:03:19,230 S1: the last little while. A lot of people maybe. Don't know, 76 00:03:19,230 --> 00:03:23,100 S1: but she's married to this British billionaire property developer called 77 00:03:23,100 --> 00:03:26,430 S1: Nick Candy, and she was photographed. It's like the last 78 00:03:26,430 --> 00:03:29,010 S1: time she was part of the conversation. She was photographed 79 00:03:29,010 --> 00:03:31,920 S1: at Mar-A-Lago alongside Trump a couple of years ago. And 80 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,540 S1: people are like, what's going on? Well, it turns out 81 00:03:33,540 --> 00:03:36,720 S1: her husband is like a conservative donor and sort of 82 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,230 S1: like political figure. And that's again how she's cropped up. 83 00:03:40,230 --> 00:03:43,380 S1: So this week, she gave this short interview to a 84 00:03:43,380 --> 00:03:47,250 S1: British TV journalist who was at the launch event for 85 00:03:47,250 --> 00:03:52,530 S1: former British prime Minister Elizabeth Truss's new like faction of 86 00:03:52,530 --> 00:03:56,400 S1: the Conservative Party, the popular conservatives and and Holly villains 87 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,580 S1: was asked about her political views by the journalist. 88 00:03:59,580 --> 00:04:01,560 S5: Where are you politically? I would say that. 89 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,650 S6: Everyone starts off as a lefty and then wakes up 90 00:04:04,650 --> 00:04:08,190 S6: at some point after you start either making money working, 91 00:04:08,190 --> 00:04:10,230 S6: trying to run a business, trying to buy a home, 92 00:04:10,230 --> 00:04:13,170 S6: and then realizes what crap ideas they all are, and 93 00:04:13,170 --> 00:04:14,280 S6: then you go to the right. 94 00:04:14,670 --> 00:04:16,469 S1: And then she started talking about how much she loves 95 00:04:16,980 --> 00:04:20,400 S1: Liz Truss, and she wants Jacob Rees-Mogg, another conservative figure, 96 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,710 S1: to be prime minister. Honestly, guys, did you ever think 97 00:04:22,710 --> 00:04:25,289 S1: you'd be talking about Holly Valance views not just on politics, 98 00:04:25,290 --> 00:04:27,900 S1: but on the leadership of the British Conservative Party? 99 00:04:28,620 --> 00:04:30,510 S3: I mean, I personally did, um. 100 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,500 S2: I haven't thought of Holly Valance probably since Kiss Kiss. Well, I. 101 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:38,280 S3: Actually have a funny, um, possibly surprising contribution to this segment, 102 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,289 S3: which maybe you guys didn't think I'd have much to 103 00:04:40,290 --> 00:04:42,839 S3: say on. But here we are ages ago. Osmond, you 104 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,120 S3: may remember this. You made me write a story on 105 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,940 S3: when she was photographed at Mar-A-Lago with. I do remember 106 00:04:47,940 --> 00:04:50,580 S3: Donald Trump and I wrote like a funny whatever story 107 00:04:50,580 --> 00:04:53,040 S3: about it. Anyway, you know how sometimes you have those 108 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,830 S3: stories that on Twitter, they just live forever and you 109 00:04:55,830 --> 00:04:58,980 S3: just keep getting notifications about them like years after because 110 00:04:58,980 --> 00:05:00,929 S3: the story has somehow found its way into, like, I 111 00:05:00,930 --> 00:05:03,810 S3: don't know, weird circles, like political circles on both sides 112 00:05:03,810 --> 00:05:06,390 S3: of the spectrum. And I constantly get retweeted in it 113 00:05:06,390 --> 00:05:08,580 S3: cause some. Someone is keeping a list of everyone that 114 00:05:08,580 --> 00:05:11,670 S3: ever visited Mar-A-Lago and this story is on the list. 115 00:05:11,670 --> 00:05:14,310 S3: So I get like 30 notifications a week just about 116 00:05:14,310 --> 00:05:16,320 S3: this one story. And I mean this thread that's been 117 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,450 S3: going for like five years with like 50,000 comments. 118 00:05:18,450 --> 00:05:20,430 S2: That's like keeping your traffic numbers here alive. 119 00:05:20,430 --> 00:05:22,979 S3: Yeah, yeah, it's great for me. But yes. So I 120 00:05:22,980 --> 00:05:26,010 S3: actually do think about Holly Valance more than I probably 121 00:05:26,010 --> 00:05:26,670 S3: care to admit. 122 00:05:27,330 --> 00:05:29,640 S1: What did you think? Were you surprised? It's sort of 123 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,130 S1: fun to see her reemerge in this way. 124 00:05:32,130 --> 00:05:34,589 S2: I think the video is just amazing, isn't it? It's 125 00:05:34,589 --> 00:05:36,750 S2: the smile she does at the end, the way she 126 00:05:36,750 --> 00:05:40,380 S2: just cuts off the conversation with this smile and it's 127 00:05:40,380 --> 00:05:43,589 S2: not even really thinking about what she's saying. It's amazing audio. 128 00:05:43,589 --> 00:05:46,680 S2: Like it feels like something like satire. It feels like 129 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,779 S2: something you would write if you were trying to parody 130 00:05:48,779 --> 00:05:50,520 S2: someone being right wing. Well, I. 131 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,410 S3: Know that last year you became a home owner. Do 132 00:05:52,410 --> 00:05:53,970 S3: you feel like you're now firmly on the right? 133 00:05:53,970 --> 00:05:57,120 S2: Because I'm sad. Yeah. 134 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:58,230 S3: You woke up and you were like, well, I've got 135 00:05:58,230 --> 00:05:59,460 S3: the keys now. And yeah. 136 00:05:59,460 --> 00:06:00,179 S2: I'm part of the I like. 137 00:06:00,180 --> 00:06:02,279 S1: That, she says. I like that. Holly villain says it's 138 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,560 S1: when you stop making money or trying to run a business, 139 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,380 S1: you become right wing as opposed to marrying a right 140 00:06:07,380 --> 00:06:11,609 S1: wing billionaire with strong links to the US Republicans. In 141 00:06:11,610 --> 00:06:12,780 S1: UK conservatives, this. 142 00:06:12,779 --> 00:06:15,029 S3: Is a real rich man north of Ramsey Street moment. 143 00:06:16,650 --> 00:06:18,930 S1: How do we how do we feel she she in 144 00:06:18,930 --> 00:06:23,010 S1: the rankings of like neighbors alum right. Kylie is right 145 00:06:23,010 --> 00:06:26,190 S1: up there Margot Robbie obviously right up there I mean 146 00:06:26,190 --> 00:06:30,060 S1: Holy Valence is pretty up there. She's she's discussed by 147 00:06:30,060 --> 00:06:33,450 S1: people in the States, in the UK, in Australia. She's 148 00:06:33,450 --> 00:06:35,640 S1: got to be one of the top, top five most 149 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:37,440 S1: well known neighbors. Folk man. 150 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:38,910 S3: She's not even the best of the Lance. It's been 151 00:06:38,910 --> 00:06:43,680 S3: on the show like I'm Tim Olympia, uh, Olympia Valance. 152 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:45,479 S2: And if you want to go one hit wonders, Natalie 153 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,960 S2: Imbruglia torn like that was a banger. She was great 154 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,430 S2: on the show. You know who else? Because I didn't 155 00:06:50,430 --> 00:06:52,140 S2: actually watch neighbours. But you know who else I have 156 00:06:52,140 --> 00:06:52,830 S2: figured out since it was. 157 00:06:52,830 --> 00:06:54,150 S1: Natalie Imbruglia on Neighbours. 158 00:06:54,150 --> 00:06:54,599 S2: Yeah. 159 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:56,550 S1: Yeah. Oh, wow. I did not know that. 160 00:06:56,550 --> 00:06:58,620 S2: There you go. There you go. From that corner. Um, 161 00:06:58,620 --> 00:07:02,070 S2: you know who else was though? Russell Crowe for episode. 162 00:07:02,070 --> 00:07:03,120 S1: Wow. Okay. Cool. 163 00:07:03,150 --> 00:07:04,320 S2: Kenny. Lorcan. Yeah. 164 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,320 S3: And he's also a musician with fog. Yeah. 30 odd 165 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:07,860 S3: foot of Grant. 166 00:07:07,860 --> 00:07:10,260 S1: So, no, I believe I believe that that band has 167 00:07:10,260 --> 00:07:13,290 S1: gone on a hiatus, and now it's, uh, the garden 168 00:07:13,290 --> 00:07:15,870 S1: party or something like that is his current musical outfit. 169 00:07:15,870 --> 00:07:18,510 S3: Yeah, right. Sorry, Tony. I reckon they might sound really similar. 170 00:07:22,110 --> 00:07:24,420 S1: Okay, to be honest, I could talk about holy violence 171 00:07:24,420 --> 00:07:27,810 S1: politics for the entire show, and I might strongarm you 172 00:07:27,810 --> 00:07:30,240 S1: guys into doing that at some point. But there's a 173 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,700 S1: lot more going on in the world of culture today. 174 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:35,220 S1: We're in the middle of award season. We've already had 175 00:07:35,220 --> 00:07:37,980 S1: the Emmys and the Golden Globes. We had the Grammys 176 00:07:37,980 --> 00:07:40,980 S1: just this week, and the Oscars are around the corner 177 00:07:40,980 --> 00:07:44,120 S1: in March. I wanted to talk to you guys about 178 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,810 S1: what kind of relevance these award shows still have, and 179 00:07:47,810 --> 00:07:51,770 S1: what they tell us about how we consume and discuss TV, 180 00:07:51,770 --> 00:07:55,610 S1: film and music in 2024. We obviously also cannot talk 181 00:07:55,610 --> 00:07:58,640 S1: about the Grammys this week without discussing Taylor Swift's appearance 182 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,929 S1: and the chokehold she continues to maintain on on the culture. 183 00:08:03,170 --> 00:08:07,430 S1: And in exciting news, our Impress Your Friend segment is 184 00:08:07,430 --> 00:08:10,640 S1: also back. It's our recommendation segment, and it's bigger and 185 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,740 S1: better than ever. We're going to be talking about what 186 00:08:12,740 --> 00:08:15,380 S1: we loved over the summer, what we're watching right now, 187 00:08:15,380 --> 00:08:18,980 S1: and what we're looking forward to coming up this year. 188 00:08:19,610 --> 00:08:21,110 S1: All right. Let's talk about the awards. I was thinking 189 00:08:21,110 --> 00:08:24,320 S1: about how to frame this conversation to make it more interesting. 190 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,179 S1: Instead of us just going through who won and who 191 00:08:26,180 --> 00:08:28,850 S1: lost in how we felt about it. And I thought 192 00:08:29,090 --> 00:08:32,059 S1: it could be interesting to start by asking you guys 193 00:08:32,059 --> 00:08:36,380 S1: what role you think awards like these play. In our 194 00:08:36,380 --> 00:08:40,460 S1: current era, the way we consume art has changed so dramatically. 195 00:08:40,460 --> 00:08:43,190 S1: The monoculture is no longer here. We watch and we 196 00:08:43,190 --> 00:08:47,209 S1: listen on fragmented different platforms fed to us by algorithms, 197 00:08:47,210 --> 00:08:48,979 S1: mass culture, the way that we had it in the 198 00:08:48,980 --> 00:08:53,240 S1: 90s and 2000 and even early 20 tens is pretty gone. 199 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,250 S1: So what is the purpose of an award show that 200 00:08:55,250 --> 00:08:57,530 S1: tries to get everyone in a room and say, this 201 00:08:57,530 --> 00:09:01,760 S1: was the best song of film or television released in 202 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,439 S1: the previous 12 months? 203 00:09:03,860 --> 00:09:07,280 S3: Yeah, I think it's become a really strange part of 204 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,630 S3: the landscape, but I think that I mean, to me, 205 00:09:11,630 --> 00:09:15,590 S3: especially after watching the Grammys, they felt increasingly irrelevant. Like 206 00:09:15,950 --> 00:09:18,079 S3: we will talk about it later. But the fact that, 207 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,420 S3: you know, the biggest talking point of the Grammys was 208 00:09:20,420 --> 00:09:25,070 S3: Taylor Swift announcing her new album, which, like, was nothing 209 00:09:25,070 --> 00:09:26,930 S3: to do with any of the awards. And that kind of, 210 00:09:26,929 --> 00:09:29,270 S3: I think is a microcosm for what is really happening. Like, 211 00:09:29,270 --> 00:09:31,880 S3: these celebrities and these stars have become bigger than the 212 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,640 S3: awards themselves, or for people who don't really engage with 213 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,090 S3: like these works critically, they don't care. If Barbie doesn't 214 00:09:38,090 --> 00:09:40,490 S3: win best film, they already think it's the best film. 215 00:09:40,490 --> 00:09:43,370 S3: And I think what has kind of happened or where 216 00:09:43,370 --> 00:09:46,460 S3: we've found ourselves, is that the awards, every awards ceremony 217 00:09:46,460 --> 00:09:50,569 S3: is like the Oscars at home, the Lo guys, Grammys, Emmys. 218 00:09:50,570 --> 00:09:52,970 S3: It's all just like and, you know, a loathe to 219 00:09:52,970 --> 00:09:54,559 S3: kind of get into this conversation, but like, it's just 220 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,660 S3: part of the content machine. So like, you know, the 221 00:09:56,660 --> 00:09:58,760 S3: Oscars is kind of just like the season finale of 222 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,640 S3: like Hollywood, the show. And so like, we we just 223 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,190 S3: are used to this content. So it's like the awards 224 00:10:04,190 --> 00:10:06,829 S3: show happened and we talk about the cold open from 225 00:10:06,830 --> 00:10:09,230 S3: the host. That's like one part of the show. Then 226 00:10:09,230 --> 00:10:12,109 S3: we talk about the performances. We talk about who was there. 227 00:10:12,110 --> 00:10:14,449 S3: Red carpet is another part of the episode that we're watching. 228 00:10:14,450 --> 00:10:16,400 S3: But like, no one gives a fuck about who actually 229 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,370 S3: won because like, it's all so contentious and we already 230 00:10:19,370 --> 00:10:21,170 S3: think we know who's best. And so it's all just 231 00:10:21,170 --> 00:10:23,780 S3: like part of the machine. But we don't we don't 232 00:10:23,780 --> 00:10:27,109 S3: really like need to know who is the. We don't 233 00:10:27,110 --> 00:10:29,450 S3: really expect these shows now to inform us who is 234 00:10:29,450 --> 00:10:30,559 S3: actually the best. 235 00:10:31,490 --> 00:10:34,280 S2: Yeah, I, I kind of disagree with parts of what 236 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,699 S2: you say. Like I think as all of the award 237 00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:40,970 S2: ceremonies have gone through a reckoning, or at least on 238 00:10:40,970 --> 00:10:43,550 S2: the surface, of going through a reckoning over the past 239 00:10:43,550 --> 00:10:46,699 S2: few years with looking at kind of diversity in their 240 00:10:46,700 --> 00:10:49,459 S2: judging and in the winners as well. And I think 241 00:10:49,460 --> 00:10:51,620 S2: they're still trying to grapple with that. And the change 242 00:10:51,620 --> 00:10:54,739 S2: isn't happening as fast as maybe needs to happen to 243 00:10:54,740 --> 00:10:58,670 S2: ensure that these major awards maintain their relevance. But I 244 00:10:58,670 --> 00:11:01,520 S2: still think they deeply matter. Like, I don't think you 245 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,979 S2: can discount how powerful it was to see, like Lily 246 00:11:03,980 --> 00:11:07,730 S2: Gladstone win the Best Actress awards at the Globes, or 247 00:11:07,730 --> 00:11:11,090 S2: to see the cast and crew of beef talk about 248 00:11:11,090 --> 00:11:15,050 S2: the importance of making a show about the Asian American experience. 249 00:11:15,050 --> 00:11:17,840 S2: Like the change isn't maybe happening as fast as it 250 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,839 S2: should be, but I still think those moments are deeply important, 251 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,830 S2: and I don't think anyone really thinks no one really like, 252 00:11:24,950 --> 00:11:27,560 S2: you know, I've judged awards before. No one really thinks 253 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,290 S2: that the awards go to the best work. Like, I 254 00:11:30,290 --> 00:11:33,590 S2: don't think anyone actually thinks the Oscars is about what's best, 255 00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:37,189 S2: but it is about celebrating people who make culture. And 256 00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:38,839 S2: I think that is good. And I think there are 257 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,840 S2: two different things here. There's like the televised show, which 258 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,140 S2: is obviously struggling and needs to change the ratings for 259 00:11:45,140 --> 00:11:47,300 S2: all these shows are not great. But then there is 260 00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:50,960 S2: also the existence of awards as a concept. And I think, yes, 261 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,660 S2: the the broadcast needs to change, but awards is a concept. 262 00:11:53,660 --> 00:11:55,609 S2: I think they drive people to cinemas. I think they 263 00:11:55,610 --> 00:11:58,339 S2: make culture part of the conversation. And I don't think 264 00:11:58,340 --> 00:12:01,940 S2: we can argue that awards are wholesale bad. 265 00:12:02,870 --> 00:12:05,120 S3: No, I don't think they're bad. But I just think 266 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:06,890 S3: and like, I love award shows because I do love 267 00:12:06,890 --> 00:12:07,550 S3: doing all those things. 268 00:12:07,550 --> 00:12:08,570 S2: And you love winning awards. 269 00:12:08,570 --> 00:12:10,819 S3: And I love getting awards. I don't get many, but like, 270 00:12:10,820 --> 00:12:12,740 S3: perhaps I'll get some this year. But like, you know, 271 00:12:12,740 --> 00:12:15,050 S3: I love I love being a part of all of 272 00:12:15,050 --> 00:12:17,120 S3: that kind of cycle. Like, I love sitting there and 273 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,620 S3: like as soon as, you know, we're watching the Grammys 274 00:12:18,620 --> 00:12:20,000 S3: of the day straight away, we were like, what do 275 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,560 S3: we think of Trevor Noah? Is he funny? Is he bombing? 276 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:23,569 S3: Is he doing better than Joker at the Globes? Like, 277 00:12:23,570 --> 00:12:25,940 S3: I love partaking in the experience. And I do agree, 278 00:12:25,940 --> 00:12:30,740 S3: like there are occasional like heartwarming, heartwarming, sincere moments that matter. 279 00:12:30,740 --> 00:12:33,290 S3: But I think as a whole we're kind of like 280 00:12:33,290 --> 00:12:36,260 S3: edging and edging towards this point where it's like, no 281 00:12:36,260 --> 00:12:40,790 S3: one really cares what. Is being said at these awards 282 00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:43,069 S3: or who is being, you know, recognized. We're just like 283 00:12:43,070 --> 00:12:44,840 S3: watching it because the Grammys are on and like, maybe 284 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:46,189 S3: something fucking weird will happen. 285 00:12:47,090 --> 00:12:49,460 S1: Yeah, I like I like the distinction that that you 286 00:12:49,460 --> 00:12:52,580 S1: guys kind of come into between the entertainment kind of 287 00:12:52,580 --> 00:12:56,120 S1: set piece of what this ceremony is and the televised 288 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,439 S1: ceremony versus the role they play in kind of critical culture. 289 00:13:00,620 --> 00:13:03,260 S1: I kind of agree with Thomasin on the first part 290 00:13:03,260 --> 00:13:06,020 S1: of that, because it does seem like these things are 291 00:13:06,020 --> 00:13:10,880 S1: increasingly becoming a pantomime. And I also want to be careful. 292 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,910 S1: I'm not necessarily necessarily saying it's like a bad thing 293 00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:16,849 S1: because like you, Thomas, I enjoy watching them. We blog them, 294 00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:18,950 S1: we write about them. They're really interesting. But it's almost 295 00:13:18,950 --> 00:13:21,920 S1: like the Grammys and the Globes and the Oscars as 296 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,220 S1: a piece of like three hour long entertainment is completely 297 00:13:25,220 --> 00:13:27,200 S1: devoid from the critical side of it. It is just 298 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,569 S1: like the red carpet stuff. Who's going to go viral? 299 00:13:29,570 --> 00:13:31,490 S1: Who's going to get asked an awkward question? Who's going 300 00:13:31,490 --> 00:13:33,590 S1: to get made fun of? And that's probably always been 301 00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:36,230 S1: a part of these ceremonies. But the way that we 302 00:13:36,230 --> 00:13:39,559 S1: consume news on social media and the way that we now, 303 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,380 S1: rather than writing like one story about what happened at 304 00:13:42,380 --> 00:13:43,880 S1: the Oscars, which we would have done 10 or 20 305 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,599 S1: years ago, we spend eight hours liveblogging it, writing like 306 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,170 S1: 300 mini stories and then break out stories. This, this 307 00:13:51,170 --> 00:13:54,079 S1: all kind of feeds into the modern way that we 308 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,960 S1: create news media. And I think, I think like, yeah, again, 309 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,030 S1: there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. But I've been thinking 310 00:13:59,030 --> 00:14:03,320 S1: about why it feels like even though the the numbers 311 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,920 S1: of people watching these things live is dropping down, the 312 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,219 S1: engagement from regular people about what's going on is going up. 313 00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:14,209 S1: Like without giving out specific numbers. Our Grammys coverage, our 314 00:14:14,210 --> 00:14:18,680 S1: live blog coverage is growing every year, and I find 315 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:20,900 S1: that really interesting. And I'm I'm not sure whether that 316 00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:23,960 S1: has partly to do with the fact that maybe there's 317 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,530 S1: so much grim, sad, heavy stuff in the rest of 318 00:14:27,530 --> 00:14:29,540 S1: the news cycle. And so people are like, well, I 319 00:14:29,540 --> 00:14:32,690 S1: just want to spend some time seeing who's performing well 320 00:14:32,690 --> 00:14:34,340 S1: and who's making jokes and whatever I'm going to plug 321 00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:36,740 S1: into that. But I also can't help but think, like, 322 00:14:36,740 --> 00:14:39,440 S1: I was thinking about this over, over. Sumner. I'm sorry 323 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,770 S1: to anyone who has the misfortune of like looking at 324 00:14:42,770 --> 00:14:45,800 S1: my Instagram stories, but I was thinking about whether Stan 325 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,980 S1: culture and the way that we project so many of 326 00:14:48,980 --> 00:14:52,730 S1: our values and ideas and ideologies onto artists and actors, 327 00:14:52,730 --> 00:14:54,680 S1: and we kind of look to them. We trust them 328 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,650 S1: more than we trust political institutions. And the media now 329 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,670 S1: means that these award ceremonies become like the most interesting 330 00:15:01,670 --> 00:15:06,020 S1: battleground or the most interesting kind of domain for conversation 331 00:15:06,020 --> 00:15:08,990 S1: and discourse, not just about music and culture, but about politics, 332 00:15:08,990 --> 00:15:11,540 S1: about the way the world works now, because we actually 333 00:15:11,540 --> 00:15:14,660 S1: care and like and trust actors and musicians more than 334 00:15:14,660 --> 00:15:17,300 S1: anyone else. And so we put a lot of our 335 00:15:17,330 --> 00:15:21,290 S1: focus and attention onto, onto them, onto when they say 336 00:15:21,290 --> 00:15:23,810 S1: things and onto which one of them beats the other, 337 00:15:23,810 --> 00:15:24,830 S1: if that makes sense. 338 00:15:24,830 --> 00:15:29,210 S2: Yeah, that does make sense. But I wonder if the 339 00:15:29,210 --> 00:15:32,420 S2: reasoning for that is because we care and trust what 340 00:15:32,420 --> 00:15:35,330 S2: they think about politics so much as we see them 341 00:15:35,330 --> 00:15:38,479 S2: as a reflection of that. If that if if that 342 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,609 S2: makes sense. Like, I guess I don't know if people 343 00:15:40,610 --> 00:15:42,950 S2: are necessarily watching it because they want to see what 344 00:15:42,950 --> 00:15:46,220 S2: I don't know. Leonardo DiCaprio has to say about the 345 00:15:46,220 --> 00:15:49,040 S2: state of things on the red carpet, as much as 346 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,860 S2: that moment on the red carpet is an embodiment of 347 00:15:51,860 --> 00:15:54,890 S2: kind of what's going on in the broader world, like 348 00:15:54,890 --> 00:15:58,790 S2: I and I also do wonder if these are, um, 349 00:15:58,790 --> 00:16:02,240 S2: these are spectacles that it's kind of okay to engage 350 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,790 S2: with for people who maybe see themselves as usually distance 351 00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:08,180 S2: from celebrity culture, maybe the Oscars or something is something 352 00:16:08,180 --> 00:16:10,910 S2: is a is a ceremony that it's okay to engage 353 00:16:10,910 --> 00:16:13,070 S2: in and enjoy the celebrity and the spectacle of it. 354 00:16:13,070 --> 00:16:15,110 S2: For people who maybe wouldn't kind of be so much 355 00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:17,240 S2: on the celebrity beat, like it's a way of engaging 356 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,790 S2: in that in a kind of highbrow form. 357 00:16:19,940 --> 00:16:21,680 S1: Well, I think I think that actually speaks to what 358 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,620 S1: I guess I wasn't trying to say that we are 359 00:16:24,620 --> 00:16:26,960 S1: so excited about what any of these people say about 360 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,290 S1: actual politics. It's more like find people our age or 361 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,040 S1: younger who care about anything to do with, like, politics, 362 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:35,900 S1: the way that a previous generation did or care about 363 00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:39,590 S1: anything to do with like the media and stuff. And 364 00:16:39,770 --> 00:16:43,010 S1: it's not saying that these people are now dumb and disconnected. 365 00:16:43,010 --> 00:16:45,860 S1: They have lots of good reasons to not trust in 366 00:16:45,860 --> 00:16:48,800 S1: individuals and institutions. And there's also a lack of trust 367 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,560 S1: in Hollywood. But I do think where people still feel 368 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,290 S1: some connection and some sense of like, I like and 369 00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:56,990 S1: respect that person. I'm interested in seeing what they do, 370 00:16:57,020 --> 00:16:59,720 S1: how they interact. What they say about anything is probably 371 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,180 S1: boiled down to just like the world of art and culture, 372 00:17:02,180 --> 00:17:04,820 S1: like it is musicians and actors more than it is 373 00:17:04,820 --> 00:17:07,460 S1: politicians and columnists and that sort of thing. 374 00:17:07,550 --> 00:17:10,160 S3: Yeah for sure. And like, I think also the the 375 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,619 S3: whole style of these awards now is that you're engineered 376 00:17:12,619 --> 00:17:15,139 S3: to kind of like moments come out of them, like 377 00:17:15,140 --> 00:17:18,170 S3: whether it's like red carpet moments or like, you know, 378 00:17:18,170 --> 00:17:20,479 S3: someone wins an award and says a speech and you 379 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,389 S3: wait for like, whatever will end up on the internet 380 00:17:23,390 --> 00:17:26,300 S3: later that night. And so we do kind of like 381 00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:28,700 S3: you go into anything, whether it's like the Met Gala, 382 00:17:28,730 --> 00:17:32,480 S3: the Oscars, whatever. And like few people outside, probably the 383 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,729 S3: industry really watched the awards in the way that we 384 00:17:34,730 --> 00:17:36,680 S3: watch them. Like from start to finish, all, you know, 385 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,780 S3: 35 hours of them. But. You can get. There's always 386 00:17:40,780 --> 00:17:42,790 S3: going to be like 5 or 6 moments that come 387 00:17:42,790 --> 00:17:45,250 S3: out that then live on the internet. And often they are, 388 00:17:45,250 --> 00:17:48,250 S3: you know, the intersection of like these people that we like, 389 00:17:48,250 --> 00:17:51,940 S3: respect and, you know, are fascinated by and fixate on 390 00:17:51,940 --> 00:17:55,090 S3: talking about whatever's happening in the world at the time. And, 391 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:56,860 S3: you know, the marriage of those two things is then 392 00:17:56,859 --> 00:17:59,080 S3: what that kind of seeps into the broader culture. And then, 393 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,389 S3: you know, like I had people that are friends of 394 00:18:01,390 --> 00:18:03,969 S3: mine like, I know weren't watching the Grammys, but like 395 00:18:03,970 --> 00:18:05,830 S3: pretty quickly into it, they were like, oh my God, 396 00:18:05,830 --> 00:18:08,230 S3: did you see, um, Tracy Chapman and Luke Combs? And like, 397 00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:10,600 S3: that is now already that's got like a second life, 398 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,030 S3: that performance. And that was probably for me, one of 399 00:18:13,030 --> 00:18:14,649 S3: the I mean, Mel made fun of me because I 400 00:18:14,650 --> 00:18:16,180 S3: watched it about 55 times a day. 401 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:17,859 S1: It was a great it was a great moment. 402 00:18:17,859 --> 00:18:19,030 S3: It was a great. And also, we'll get on to 403 00:18:19,030 --> 00:18:19,389 S3: this because the. 404 00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:23,050 S2: Moments that he watched it repeatedly at his death. 405 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,840 S1: He was watching it for Luke Combs, not Tracy Chapman, 406 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:26,800 S1: which is the bad thing. 407 00:18:27,100 --> 00:18:27,490 S2: That I love. 408 00:18:27,970 --> 00:18:30,159 S3: I love both of them. And I can't believe you 409 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,130 S3: don't like Fast Car, but we'll circle back to that. Um, 410 00:18:33,130 --> 00:18:35,740 S3: but like, you know, that's already become something that is 411 00:18:35,740 --> 00:18:38,410 S3: like represents more, I think, than what was just a beautiful, 412 00:18:38,410 --> 00:18:41,230 S3: kind of like, breathtaking performance. It's become this like, big moment. 413 00:18:41,230 --> 00:18:43,300 S3: And people, you know, The Atlantics is like a 2000 414 00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:45,490 S3: word piece on it today. Like it's, you know, we 415 00:18:45,490 --> 00:18:48,189 S3: get these, we put all of these famous people that 416 00:18:48,190 --> 00:18:50,950 S3: we obsess over into one room with a bunch of media, 417 00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:53,200 S3: and then you kind of like adding, sprinkle everything that's 418 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,090 S3: going on in the world and then like, you just like, 419 00:18:55,090 --> 00:18:56,950 S3: see what bubbles up. And then I think we love 420 00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:57,820 S3: to like, dissect that. 421 00:18:57,820 --> 00:18:59,920 S2: Can I say to that point what I have found interesting, 422 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:02,140 S2: particularly in this year's awards, and it has slowly been 423 00:19:02,140 --> 00:19:04,090 S2: happening over the last few years, but have noticed it 424 00:19:04,090 --> 00:19:07,090 S2: in the latest batch. Is the focus on kind of 425 00:19:07,090 --> 00:19:11,320 S2: fly on the wall moments of the famous people in 426 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,860 S2: in the crowd, like it's the Taylor and Selena conversation, 427 00:19:14,859 --> 00:19:18,100 S2: like what were they gossiping about? It's the Calvin Harris 428 00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:21,340 S2: and Taylor pass by the Olivia Rodrigo throw out to 429 00:19:21,340 --> 00:19:23,590 S2: someone in the audience. I feel like they really have 430 00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:27,460 S2: shifted the broadcast, and this probably speaks to failing ratings, 431 00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:30,160 S2: to being a bit more of a reality show. Like 432 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,709 S2: there's a lot of kind of attempted gotcha moments here, 433 00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:35,200 S2: and I do feel for them because these stars are 434 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,720 S2: being like hot mic all over the place, and you 435 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,060 S2: do get the feeling that they're not always complicit. You know, 436 00:19:40,060 --> 00:19:42,219 S2: I'm sure they know about some of the kind of throwaways. 437 00:19:42,220 --> 00:19:45,609 S2: But yeah, I feel that fly on the wall gotcha. 438 00:19:45,609 --> 00:19:48,370 S2: Trying to create an ah, uh, like trying to create 439 00:19:48,369 --> 00:19:52,090 S2: a moment out of reality that can be become viral 440 00:19:52,090 --> 00:19:54,490 S2: and talked about is is a pretty interesting development. 441 00:19:54,490 --> 00:19:55,570 S1: Yeah. I want to put a pin on that one 442 00:19:55,570 --> 00:19:57,129 S1: because I want to come back to that one specifically 443 00:19:57,130 --> 00:20:00,790 S1: around Taylor Swift and how she sort of acted at 444 00:20:00,790 --> 00:20:03,100 S1: the Grammys, because I think that's a really interesting example 445 00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:05,530 S1: of someone who's very conscious of that and is not 446 00:20:05,530 --> 00:20:07,989 S1: just thinking about what she's doing on stage, but when 447 00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:09,699 S1: she's in the background, how does she look and who 448 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:12,400 S1: she is, who is she interacting with? But just just 449 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,660 S1: on the on the on the awards generally like before 450 00:20:16,660 --> 00:20:19,840 S1: the internet came along and like disrupted everything. Like you 451 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,449 S1: could have an Emmys and the people who would be 452 00:20:22,450 --> 00:20:25,359 S1: winning the Emmys, shows like friends, shows like The Office 453 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,369 S1: or whatever that everyone was watching. Right? These are shows 454 00:20:27,369 --> 00:20:31,780 S1: that got like 50 million viewers every night now, very 455 00:20:31,780 --> 00:20:34,840 S1: rare to see any show get that kind of traction. 456 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,480 S1: But the Emmys seem to also be not really that 457 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,000 S1: interested in what is the most popular show like it's 458 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,600 S1: not not Yellowstone that wins the Emmys. It's Succession and 459 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,970 S1: The Bear, which we love. We think they're amazing shows, 460 00:20:45,970 --> 00:20:48,609 S1: but we also know that they're watched by a very 461 00:20:48,609 --> 00:20:51,550 S1: small proportion of people, particularly when you think about the 462 00:20:51,550 --> 00:20:56,020 S1: broad mainstream kind of American TV watching audience. And it's 463 00:20:56,020 --> 00:20:58,480 S1: sort of similar for the Oscars. I feel like, you know, 464 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,790 S1: Bobby and Oppenheimer were two big blockbusters that both are 465 00:21:00,790 --> 00:21:03,850 S1: nominated for Best Picture. But there are so many like, 466 00:21:03,850 --> 00:21:06,220 S1: films that have got almost no box office money. I 467 00:21:06,220 --> 00:21:08,110 S1: think the Oscars have always been a bit like that. 468 00:21:08,109 --> 00:21:11,409 S1: They've always sort of rejected going for the big commercial 469 00:21:11,410 --> 00:21:14,440 S1: successes over most of their history. It's shifted kind of 470 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,130 S1: more recently. How confused you reckon people are who tuned 471 00:21:18,130 --> 00:21:20,470 S1: in to watch the Emmys, and they're like, what are 472 00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:23,170 S1: these shows? Why is like the kind of big network 473 00:21:23,170 --> 00:21:26,620 S1: comedy that I watch not being recognized? 474 00:21:27,510 --> 00:21:31,350 S2: I don't know if they would be very confused, because 475 00:21:31,350 --> 00:21:34,920 S2: I think you're right that, like, these awards ceremonies often 476 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,220 S2: come with the caveat that they're the critic's picks, and 477 00:21:38,220 --> 00:21:43,889 S2: critics often don't tend to pick the mainstream readily accessible 478 00:21:43,890 --> 00:21:46,410 S2: to the most amount of people shows. And I think 479 00:21:46,410 --> 00:21:48,570 S2: that's the same across all kinds of prizes as well. 480 00:21:48,570 --> 00:21:52,439 S2: Like literary prizes are no different. Um, so I don't, 481 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,050 S2: I don't know. Do you think people would be shocked? 482 00:21:55,050 --> 00:21:57,990 S2: Anyone who really watches TV knows the names of these shows? 483 00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:58,440 S2: Is this just. 484 00:21:58,619 --> 00:22:00,840 S3: Is this you kind of is getting annoyed that succession 485 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,040 S3: beat Yellowstone again? 486 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:02,910 S1: Yeah, definitely. 487 00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:03,780 S4: Keep Yellowstone. 488 00:22:03,780 --> 00:22:06,419 S1: It's flowers. No, I think it's more like it's not 489 00:22:06,420 --> 00:22:09,540 S1: just about what's popular versus what is not popular. It's 490 00:22:09,540 --> 00:22:11,520 S1: kind of like nothing is popular anymore. Do you know 491 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,690 S1: what I mean? Like, they used to be 5 or 492 00:22:13,690 --> 00:22:16,950 S1: 6 shows that everyone watched, and the Emmys would award 493 00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:19,950 S1: one of them best comedy or best drama. Now there's 494 00:22:19,950 --> 00:22:23,100 S1: 50 shows that different people watch based on whether they're 495 00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:27,450 S1: subscribed to Amazon Prime or Paramount+ or whatever. And so 496 00:22:27,450 --> 00:22:29,369 S1: it's really interesting when you boil all that down at 497 00:22:29,369 --> 00:22:31,200 S1: the end of the year to this one award ceremony, 498 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,080 S1: and you're picking from things that even if it's good, 499 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,419 S1: even if a lot of people watched, it is never 500 00:22:36,420 --> 00:22:39,930 S1: going to come close to capturing maybe even 50% of 501 00:22:39,930 --> 00:22:41,669 S1: the people who are watching the Emmys. Do you know 502 00:22:41,670 --> 00:22:42,060 S1: what I mean? 503 00:22:42,060 --> 00:22:44,310 S2: That's true. But maybe on the converse, that makes award 504 00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:46,770 S2: ceremonies even more necessary and relevant because. 505 00:22:46,770 --> 00:22:48,810 S1: It tells people to go watch this show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 506 00:22:48,810 --> 00:22:49,050 S1: in an. 507 00:22:49,050 --> 00:22:51,659 S2: Oversaturated market, all of a sudden the Emmys is boiling 508 00:22:51,660 --> 00:22:53,310 S2: it down to five. And obviously people are going to 509 00:22:53,310 --> 00:22:55,260 S2: have different opinions about what those five should be, but 510 00:22:55,260 --> 00:22:58,470 S2: maybe that actually reinstates the importance of them as a 511 00:22:58,470 --> 00:23:00,600 S2: way to capture a cultural moment. 512 00:23:01,050 --> 00:23:02,729 S1: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And you 513 00:23:02,730 --> 00:23:06,150 S1: certainly see that bump when Oscar nominations come out, for example, 514 00:23:06,150 --> 00:23:09,210 S1: you see people flocking to cinemas to watch movies like 515 00:23:09,210 --> 00:23:11,190 S1: The Zone of Interest in Anatomy of a fall that 516 00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:14,940 S1: didn't have huge marketing campaigns. And if they can still 517 00:23:14,940 --> 00:23:17,130 S1: play that role in saying, hey, you might not be 518 00:23:17,130 --> 00:23:19,679 S1: aware of this, but a group of people who care 519 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,440 S1: say that this is an important thing that you should watch. 520 00:23:22,590 --> 00:23:25,050 S1: That's pretty cool. That's like still a pretty useful role 521 00:23:25,050 --> 00:23:25,830 S1: for them to play. 522 00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:27,150 S3: Yeah, and I saw that a lot. I think with 523 00:23:27,150 --> 00:23:29,910 S3: beef at the Emmys. Um, and the Globes, like I 524 00:23:29,910 --> 00:23:32,070 S3: had lots of friends that hadn't kind of maybe beef 525 00:23:32,070 --> 00:23:34,410 S3: had skipped them by. And then we're kind of texted 526 00:23:34,410 --> 00:23:36,450 S3: me to be like, oh, like beef one a lot like, 527 00:23:36,450 --> 00:23:37,950 S3: is it good? And I was like, it's like, so 528 00:23:37,950 --> 00:23:39,629 S3: fucking good. You have to go and watch it immediately. 529 00:23:39,630 --> 00:23:42,240 S3: So I do think that is, um, still a role 530 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,240 S3: that awards stream that awards ceremonies can play. But I 531 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,160 S3: do think and, you know, I kind of we spoke 532 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,320 S3: about this a little bit after the Grammys and I 533 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,170 S3: mentioned it in the blog, but it's such a for me, 534 00:23:52,170 --> 00:23:54,659 S3: like such an issue with awards ceremonies generally. And the 535 00:23:54,660 --> 00:23:57,030 S3: Oscars is exactly the same, but it's like we just 536 00:23:57,030 --> 00:24:00,690 S3: have this obsession with nostalgia that has turned awards ceremonies 537 00:24:00,690 --> 00:24:04,380 S3: into basically an exercise in just like looking back at 538 00:24:04,380 --> 00:24:06,720 S3: how great everything was all the time. And I thought 539 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,810 S3: the Grammys, like I would say generally that the take 540 00:24:09,810 --> 00:24:11,550 S3: on the Grammys was it was a pretty fun awards ceremony. 541 00:24:11,550 --> 00:24:13,889 S3: This year was pretty good as far as awards ceremonies go. 542 00:24:13,890 --> 00:24:17,820 S3: But like, man, like, you know, Tracy Chapman obviously love her, 543 00:24:17,820 --> 00:24:20,730 S3: but it was like Tracy Chapman, Annie Lennox, Stevie Wonder, 544 00:24:20,730 --> 00:24:24,149 S3: Billy Joel closing out the performance with two different numbers 545 00:24:24,150 --> 00:24:26,909 S3: like it was a lot if you the generation gap 546 00:24:26,910 --> 00:24:29,100 S3: of the Grammys this year was pretty crazy. Like you 547 00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:32,520 S3: had Dua Lipa and scissor, like kind of opening the 548 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,890 S3: show and then Billy Joel closing the show, and there's 549 00:24:34,890 --> 00:24:36,870 S3: two sets of audiences watching there who had no idea 550 00:24:36,869 --> 00:24:37,919 S3: who the fuck these people were. 551 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:39,900 S2: I, I understand what you're saying, but part of me 552 00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:42,360 S2: wonders whether a lot of those names, and obviously not 553 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,640 S2: all of them, are getting recognition that they didn't get 554 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,950 S2: at the time. Like it was very important that Tracy 555 00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:49,260 S2: Chapman was on that stage. And some of those other 556 00:24:49,260 --> 00:24:51,900 S2: older artists that perhaps have been overlooked or haven't got 557 00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:55,109 S2: the historical recognition that they deserve, do get a moment 558 00:24:55,109 --> 00:24:57,540 S2: on stage. So I wonder if that's what they're trying 559 00:24:57,540 --> 00:24:59,580 S2: to do, as well as appeal to the broadest possible. 560 00:24:59,580 --> 00:25:00,090 S4: But isn't it. 561 00:25:00,090 --> 00:25:03,030 S1: Isn't also like another example of the point I was 562 00:25:03,030 --> 00:25:05,250 S1: making with the Emmys. Like there is never going to 563 00:25:05,250 --> 00:25:09,480 S1: be another Billy Joel or Annie Lennox, because there's never 564 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,879 S1: going to be another artist that 90% of the world 565 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,240 S1: know and have like, listened to before. Like Annie Lennox 566 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,300 S1: is doing the O'Connor tribute, like when I spice dies 567 00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:21,420 S1: in 50 or 60 years or whatever. Like they're like, 568 00:25:21,420 --> 00:25:23,340 S1: most people will be like, I don't I didn't listen 569 00:25:23,340 --> 00:25:25,470 S1: to Ice Spice and and that's not to diss her. 570 00:25:25,470 --> 00:25:28,230 S1: It's just that, again, it goes to the structure and 571 00:25:28,230 --> 00:25:32,490 S1: mechanisms by by which we consume like music now. And 572 00:25:32,490 --> 00:25:34,439 S1: I think that's a really good example of what the 573 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:39,720 S1: Grammys I think demonstrated was this disconnect of old musicians 574 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,370 S1: who have resonance and actually are more economically powerful than 575 00:25:44,369 --> 00:25:46,110 S1: they used to be. There's a really interesting stat that, 576 00:25:46,109 --> 00:25:49,560 S1: like older musicians and the catalogs that they have are 577 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,850 S1: now the biggest drivers of revenue to music labels because 578 00:25:53,850 --> 00:25:55,410 S1: of how streaming works. It used to be you'd buy 579 00:25:55,410 --> 00:25:58,109 S1: your Billy Joel CD and that was it, whereas now 580 00:25:58,109 --> 00:26:00,930 S1: you stream it so that those artists continue to make 581 00:26:00,930 --> 00:26:03,300 S1: money for labels in a way that they didn't used 582 00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:06,359 S1: to unless they were touring. Uh, and if you have 583 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,419 S1: a new generation of artists like Burna Boys performing scissors, 584 00:26:09,420 --> 00:26:12,390 S1: performing Ice spice, performing, they're all great. They do great stuff. 585 00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:14,730 S1: They've got loyal audiences, but they're never going to be 586 00:26:14,730 --> 00:26:17,429 S1: like known by our parents. I guess they're never going 587 00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:19,679 S1: to have their broad resonance. And so I think the 588 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,800 S1: Grammys are trying to figure out how the Grammys, the 589 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,290 S1: entire music industry, is trying to figure out, can there 590 00:26:25,290 --> 00:26:28,520 S1: be mass music culture again, like. Can there be another 591 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,100 S1: artist that every single person, whether they're 11 years old 592 00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:33,919 S1: or 70 years old, knows about? And can we construct 593 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,070 S1: an award show around them? I'm not sure there will be. 594 00:26:37,070 --> 00:26:38,480 S3: Yeah. Her name is Taylor Swift. 595 00:26:39,170 --> 00:26:39,500 S4: Yeah. 596 00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:41,119 S1: But I'm like, okay. Taylor Swift is also not a 597 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:41,959 S1: new artist. 598 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,850 S3: No, no, I know I completely agree with you and 599 00:26:43,850 --> 00:26:45,350 S3: I do. I think it's a really interesting kind of 600 00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:48,409 S3: conundrum for like you, you want to like you need 601 00:26:48,410 --> 00:26:52,100 S3: to like balance this, the power of the past. And 602 00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:54,830 S3: it always creates these really beautiful moments. And everything you 603 00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:57,619 S3: just said is so true. But then you've got these, like, 604 00:26:58,340 --> 00:27:00,740 S3: especially if you're a young person, like watching some of 605 00:27:00,740 --> 00:27:04,639 S3: the Grammys on TikTok or whatever, like if you're, you know, 606 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,120 S3: seeing Billy Joel close out the award ceremony, that means 607 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,180 S3: nothing to you. Like, yeah, it's yeah, it's a strange 608 00:27:11,180 --> 00:27:13,310 S3: kind of like position to be in, I think. I know. 609 00:27:13,310 --> 00:27:15,650 S2: But maybe this is maybe it can be a more 610 00:27:15,650 --> 00:27:18,619 S2: educative purpose of some of these awards ceremonies, because I 611 00:27:18,619 --> 00:27:21,709 S2: think too often today we, like artists, make art without 612 00:27:21,710 --> 00:27:24,680 S2: actually knowing what came before. And I do think there 613 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,340 S2: is some kind of enlightening purpose of like not to 614 00:27:28,340 --> 00:27:32,540 S2: make kind of the Grammys, you know, a school lesson. 615 00:27:32,540 --> 00:27:34,910 S2: But I do actually think it's nice to see what 616 00:27:34,910 --> 00:27:37,219 S2: came before and to see how these artists are building 617 00:27:37,220 --> 00:27:40,400 S2: on legacies, you know, and maybe connecting the present with 618 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,580 S2: the past is kind of serves a broader purpose than 619 00:27:43,580 --> 00:27:45,260 S2: just the kind of. So you want to. 620 00:27:45,260 --> 00:27:48,379 S3: Have more U2 at the fucking sphere in Las Vegas. 621 00:27:48,380 --> 00:27:49,460 S4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 622 00:27:49,580 --> 00:27:51,320 S1: Well, see, I mean, I agree with that, Mel, but 623 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,199 S1: I feel like I'm not worried about that not happening. Like, 624 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,550 S1: you know, when we look at the Super Bowl and 625 00:27:55,550 --> 00:27:57,500 S1: the that the tributes to hip hop and whatever, I 626 00:27:57,500 --> 00:28:00,139 S1: think the industry is very good at reminding everyone the 627 00:28:00,140 --> 00:28:03,020 S1: powerhouses exist. What I think they haven't quite figured out 628 00:28:03,020 --> 00:28:05,899 S1: yet is how do you get everyone across the new 629 00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:08,510 S1: generation of artists and like like the beef comparison you 630 00:28:08,510 --> 00:28:11,060 S1: were giving Thomas for the for the Emmys? It wasn't 631 00:28:11,060 --> 00:28:13,219 S1: clear to me, like who watching the Grammys is going 632 00:28:13,220 --> 00:28:15,590 S1: to be like, oh, cool. Like, this is the next 633 00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:18,710 S1: new cool person I've got to be across. That wasn't 634 00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:21,290 S1: really established for me. 635 00:28:21,380 --> 00:28:24,649 S2: Yeah. That's interesting. Sometimes I think people have like two 636 00:28:24,650 --> 00:28:28,369 S2: different approaches to like art. Some people like never move 637 00:28:28,369 --> 00:28:30,620 S2: past what they were when they were 15 and like 638 00:28:30,619 --> 00:28:32,900 S2: they just watched the same music and they just don't 639 00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:37,250 S2: have interest in kind of moving past their early established tastes. 640 00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:37,700 S2: Are you talking. 641 00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:38,480 S1: About Taylor Swift? 642 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:38,959 S4: Yeah. 643 00:28:40,190 --> 00:28:42,710 S2: Very good. And then all the people I think seek 644 00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:44,900 S2: that newness. So I wonder if, I don't know, maybe 645 00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:48,680 S2: it's always been like maybe, maybe the idea that a 646 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,310 S2: certain generation aren't going to discover younger audience is true. 647 00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:54,470 S2: But maybe that's also just how kind of it can 648 00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:55,400 S2: be with culture. 649 00:28:56,060 --> 00:28:57,350 S1: Yeah, that's a good point. 650 00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:59,390 S3: I'm just saying they're a cooler old people than Billy 651 00:28:59,390 --> 00:29:00,560 S3: Joel to close the show out. 652 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,010 S4: Yeah. Like, seriously, the guy. 653 00:29:04,010 --> 00:29:06,650 S3: Looked like he was working security at like, so. 654 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,459 S1: Well, we saw Bruce Springsteen at the Golden Globes. That 655 00:29:10,460 --> 00:29:10,760 S1: was pretty. 656 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:11,959 S4: Fun. Yeah. He's cool. 657 00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:14,750 S1: He's really cool. Yeah, he's really cool. Um, look, we've 658 00:29:14,750 --> 00:29:17,570 S1: danced around the Taylor thing enough. I think it's time 659 00:29:17,570 --> 00:29:21,350 S1: to just talk about it. She. She won album of 660 00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:24,320 S1: the year. That's generally considered to be the biggest prize 661 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,110 S1: the Grammys give out. It's the fourth time she's won 662 00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:30,800 S1: that prize more than any other artist. Uh, she announced 663 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,630 S1: a new album on stage. 664 00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:35,390 S7: So I want to say thank you to the fans 665 00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:41,840 S7: by telling you a secret that I've been keeping from 666 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:47,240 S7: you for the last two years, which is that my 667 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:55,580 S7: brand new album. Comes out April 19th. It's called. It's 668 00:29:55,580 --> 00:29:59,240 S7: called the Tortured Poets Department. I'm going to go and 669 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,510 S7: post the cover right now backstage. Thank you. 670 00:30:02,660 --> 00:30:04,880 S1: She emerged clearly like you said. Thomas at the start 671 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,030 S1: of this conversation is the dominant figure. Out of out 672 00:30:08,030 --> 00:30:10,400 S1: of the awards, I want to talk about her place 673 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,500 S1: and culture kind of more broadly, but I want to 674 00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:16,030 S1: focus on the Grammys side of it. There's a there's 675 00:30:16,030 --> 00:30:19,570 S1: a lot to this one. You know, firstly, Jay-Z earlier 676 00:30:19,570 --> 00:30:24,310 S1: in the night says it's pretty outrageous that Beyonce has 677 00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:26,410 S1: won more Grammys than anyone else, but she's never won 678 00:30:26,590 --> 00:30:28,360 S1: album of the year. 679 00:30:29,980 --> 00:30:34,030 S8: Obviously it's subjective because, you know, it's music and it's 680 00:30:34,030 --> 00:30:38,350 S8: opinion based. But you know, some things, you know, I 681 00:30:38,350 --> 00:30:40,210 S8: don't want to embarrass this young lady, but she has 682 00:30:40,210 --> 00:30:42,729 S8: more Grammys than everyone and never won album of the year. 683 00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:48,040 S8: So even by your own metrics, that doesn't work. Think 684 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,880 S8: about that. The most Grammys never won album of the year. 685 00:30:51,910 --> 00:30:52,690 S8: That doesn't work. 686 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,750 S1: What does it have to do with Taylor Swift? Well, 687 00:30:55,870 --> 00:30:58,390 S1: I mean, Taylor Swift's one for Beyoncé is one zero. 688 00:30:58,390 --> 00:31:00,880 S1: It's not necessarily Taylor Swift's fault, but the fact that 689 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,540 S1: Taylor Swift has one more Grammy Album of the year 690 00:31:04,540 --> 00:31:07,780 S1: awards than every single black woman in the history of 691 00:31:07,780 --> 00:31:15,340 S1: music combined is pretty extraordinary. Uh, and I think, like, again, yeah, 692 00:31:15,340 --> 00:31:17,110 S1: Telstra doesn't decide if she wins a Grammy or not, 693 00:31:17,110 --> 00:31:22,030 S1: but I think you can't disconnect her complete domination of 694 00:31:22,030 --> 00:31:24,460 S1: the music industry, the fact that the Grammys feel like 695 00:31:24,460 --> 00:31:27,790 S1: they have to award what I think is generally accepted 696 00:31:27,790 --> 00:31:30,970 S1: to be a pretty mid album in Midnights, like, I 697 00:31:30,970 --> 00:31:35,920 S1: think everyone generally agrees that like Scissor or Lana, like 698 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,120 S1: had the better album that year. That creates an opening 699 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,000 S1: for a conversation, right? About the grip, the vice like 700 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,760 S1: grip that that Swift has on on music and culture 701 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,510 S1: more broadly. Before we get into more, can we agree 702 00:31:49,510 --> 00:31:51,490 S1: on that bit? Like, do we think it's like this 703 00:31:51,490 --> 00:31:55,360 S1: win of album of the year is a little bit 704 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,270 S1: odd and therefore warrants a bit of a conversation around 705 00:31:58,270 --> 00:31:59,380 S1: what is going on? 706 00:31:59,710 --> 00:32:03,850 S3: Well, I don't know, because yesterday I said I was 707 00:32:03,850 --> 00:32:07,090 S3: kind of going off Taylor Swift and Mel's head nearly imploded, 708 00:32:07,210 --> 00:32:08,680 S3: so I'm just not really sure what I'm allowed to 709 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,160 S3: say anymore or how I'm allowed to say it. And yeah, 710 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,010 S3: I mean, I mean, no, you go because we'll. 711 00:32:15,010 --> 00:32:17,950 S2: Come back to this, but ta ta. I appreciate that Osman, 712 00:32:17,950 --> 00:32:19,960 S2: as a true debater, is trying to set up to 713 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,710 S2: avoid our prestige TV scenario. You're like trying to set 714 00:32:23,710 --> 00:32:24,940 S2: up the terms of the. 715 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,860 S1: Some definitions. Yes. Some definitions. 716 00:32:27,010 --> 00:32:29,830 S2: Yes. I agree with everything you say. The only thing 717 00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:34,420 S2: I would say is, is Taylor winning four Grammys, Beyoncé 718 00:32:34,420 --> 00:32:38,380 S2: winning none. Is it a reflection of Taylor's chokehold on 719 00:32:38,380 --> 00:32:41,620 S2: the culture, or is it a reflection on the award 720 00:32:41,620 --> 00:32:44,560 S2: shows and how they're set up in terms of who votes, 721 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,860 S2: the names of the awards? Who's allowed to enter, how 722 00:32:47,860 --> 00:32:50,650 S2: the record companies lobby? Is it more a reflection of 723 00:32:50,650 --> 00:32:53,320 S2: Taylor's chokehold? Surely it is, but it is also a 724 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,130 S2: reflection of institutional problems with all of these awards. 725 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,740 S1: I think. I think that's right. I think the the 726 00:32:59,740 --> 00:33:02,410 S1: really interesting thing is, and I'll just say this, I 727 00:33:02,410 --> 00:33:05,530 S1: think Taylor emerged from this year's Grammys in a weaker 728 00:33:05,530 --> 00:33:09,700 S1: position than she was going in, in terms of her reputation, 729 00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:12,460 S1: in terms of how she's being perceived by basically everyone 730 00:33:12,460 --> 00:33:16,990 S1: except her diehard fans. I think. I think it's hard 731 00:33:16,990 --> 00:33:20,050 S1: to to be the most powerful person in, in entertainment 732 00:33:20,050 --> 00:33:23,110 S1: because you can only go down. But I thought her 733 00:33:23,830 --> 00:33:26,620 S1: even if it's even if it's entirely even if it's 734 00:33:26,620 --> 00:33:29,200 S1: largely more a problem of the industry and who votes 735 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,840 S1: for these awards, it's still her, right? It's her who 736 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,410 S1: gets positioned as the white woman who's beaten every single 737 00:33:35,410 --> 00:33:38,110 S1: black woman and keeps beating them again and again and again. 738 00:33:38,110 --> 00:33:41,410 S1: Maybe it's not fair, but that is how these things 739 00:33:41,410 --> 00:33:44,470 S1: work and are perceived. But I think beyond that, I 740 00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:47,440 S1: think there's a couple of missteps she made that I 741 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,120 S1: think maybe speak to. Her being in a mindset of 742 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,150 S1: like the perpetual underdog that don't doesn't quite translate as 743 00:33:55,150 --> 00:33:58,240 S1: well when you are the top dog. Her announcing the 744 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,550 S1: album on stage. I'm interested to hear your guys viewing that. 745 00:34:00,580 --> 00:34:02,920 S1: I didn't think that was a smart move. 746 00:34:03,220 --> 00:34:06,130 S3: Yeah, I didn't think so either. I also thought it 747 00:34:06,130 --> 00:34:07,750 S3: spoke to the fact that she was very sure she 748 00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:11,620 S3: was going to win. Um, which, like, never really looks good. 749 00:34:11,620 --> 00:34:13,719 S3: She's like, ah, everyone. Like, here comes the Dead Poets 750 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,330 S3: Society or whatever it's called. It's like, I think that 751 00:34:16,330 --> 00:34:18,160 S3: it just seemed a bit tortured. 752 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:18,969 S1: Poets department. 753 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:19,810 S4: Poets is very. 754 00:34:19,810 --> 00:34:20,200 S2: Good. 755 00:34:21,070 --> 00:34:22,180 S3: Oh, captain. My captain. 756 00:34:22,510 --> 00:34:22,810 S4: Um. 757 00:34:23,590 --> 00:34:26,229 S3: But like, it just, I think it just like. So 758 00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:28,089 S3: I had people, a few people slack me from our 759 00:34:28,090 --> 00:34:30,160 S3: office being like. Oh, don't you reckon it's a little 760 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,890 S3: bit like, cringe that she did that like she was. 761 00:34:32,890 --> 00:34:35,020 S3: So she knew the moment was coming and like, you know, 762 00:34:35,020 --> 00:34:37,089 S3: obviously we know what goes into a Taylor album drop. 763 00:34:37,090 --> 00:34:38,710 S3: It's not like I think she said, I'm going to 764 00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:40,870 S3: go backstage and post this, like as if she was 765 00:34:40,870 --> 00:34:43,660 S3: going to go back and post on her personal Instagram. Like, 766 00:34:43,660 --> 00:34:48,100 S3: this is a full label wide global release drop. So like, 767 00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:49,660 S3: she knew she was probably going to win. I was 768 00:34:49,660 --> 00:34:52,270 S3: so confident and there's nothing wrong with that in of itself, 769 00:34:52,270 --> 00:34:55,390 S3: but I think it just felt a bit tasteless. And, 770 00:34:55,390 --> 00:34:57,970 S3: you know, it's it's again, like that was a moment 771 00:34:57,969 --> 00:34:59,470 S3: for her, obviously, but there was a bunch of other 772 00:34:59,469 --> 00:35:03,250 S3: nominees and and like, it just it sucked the energy 773 00:35:03,250 --> 00:35:05,650 S3: out of the room at the Grammys and made the 774 00:35:05,650 --> 00:35:08,650 S3: entire ceremony. Taylor Swift is dropping a new album coming 775 00:35:08,650 --> 00:35:09,370 S3: April 19th. 776 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,790 S2: Yeah, I can't quite understand the the reasoning behind why 777 00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:17,819 S2: she announced like that. You know, she obviously has her 778 00:35:17,820 --> 00:35:21,779 S2: own broad reach and communication channels and platforms. It was 779 00:35:21,780 --> 00:35:23,940 S2: confusing to me that she would use the stage of 780 00:35:23,940 --> 00:35:26,670 S2: the Grammys as an announcement. What do you think? The 781 00:35:26,670 --> 00:35:27,480 S2: kind of like. 782 00:35:27,540 --> 00:35:29,430 S1: I think, I think what it did was I think 783 00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:32,160 S1: what it did was it made, as Thomas said, every 784 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,060 S1: single Grammy story about Taylor's new album, which is potentially 785 00:35:36,060 --> 00:35:38,010 S1: a great marketing tool. But on the other hand, this 786 00:35:38,010 --> 00:35:40,680 S1: is my point is it suffocated the rest of the 787 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,530 S1: conversation about the Grammys. It meant that other artists that 788 00:35:43,530 --> 00:35:47,790 S1: were being awarded or acknowledged just dissipated. And, and, and 789 00:35:47,790 --> 00:35:50,190 S1: and that actually is something that you can blame Taylor 790 00:35:50,190 --> 00:35:52,470 S1: for because she did it for that reason. She did 791 00:35:52,469 --> 00:35:55,860 S1: it to emerge as the dominant narrative out of that great, 792 00:35:55,860 --> 00:35:59,160 S1: calculating move to make a lot of money. But in 793 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,420 S1: terms of being seen as someone who supports the wider industry, 794 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,669 S1: like she's in the most powerful position, she does not 795 00:36:05,670 --> 00:36:08,250 S1: need the Grammys platform to to to push her record. 796 00:36:08,250 --> 00:36:12,060 S1: Yet she chose to monopolize that as well. Which is 797 00:36:12,060 --> 00:36:14,940 S1: why I kind of think people are starting to now 798 00:36:15,090 --> 00:36:18,300 S1: be a little bit more critical or a little bit 799 00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:21,300 S1: more like, oh, this kind of calculating stuff was great, 800 00:36:21,300 --> 00:36:23,970 S1: but now you are the biggest artist in the world. 801 00:36:23,969 --> 00:36:25,739 S1: You don't need to really do that. 802 00:36:25,739 --> 00:36:27,480 S2: Yeah. And that's why I do see it as like 803 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,120 S2: a misstep for her PR, like the backlash to that 804 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,210 S2: and that that narrative would emerge seems to me kind 805 00:36:33,210 --> 00:36:36,029 S2: of obvious. So like, I do feel like that's a 806 00:36:36,030 --> 00:36:39,990 S2: misstep on their behalf, particularly as like this whole year, 807 00:36:39,989 --> 00:36:42,540 S2: Taylor has tried to spend a lot of time speaking 808 00:36:42,540 --> 00:36:46,350 S2: to the Beyonce point, at least performing or like making 809 00:36:46,350 --> 00:36:50,700 S2: symbolic public gestures about supporting other artists. You know, she 810 00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:54,630 S2: was at she was at Beyonce's launch of her tour 811 00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:56,879 S2: film and Beyonce was at the launch of the ER 812 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,790 S2: is tour. And you know, she's backing Sabrina Carpenter, she's 813 00:36:59,790 --> 00:37:03,660 S2: standing up singing for, um, for Olivia Rodrigo. So as 814 00:37:03,660 --> 00:37:05,730 S2: someone who spent kind of, I think over the last 815 00:37:05,730 --> 00:37:09,540 S2: year has doubled down on supporting other female artists, it 816 00:37:09,540 --> 00:37:11,250 S2: did feel like an odd thing to then go and 817 00:37:11,250 --> 00:37:13,770 S2: try and monopolize the show, or at least that be 818 00:37:13,770 --> 00:37:15,060 S2: the outcome of what? What she. 819 00:37:15,060 --> 00:37:16,740 S3: Did. Yeah. And it's funny, like, do you reckon she 820 00:37:16,739 --> 00:37:18,660 S3: would have done the same thing had she, because she 821 00:37:18,660 --> 00:37:21,810 S3: obviously announced the drop on like the lesser award. Like, 822 00:37:22,050 --> 00:37:23,550 S3: would she have done the same thing had she not 823 00:37:23,550 --> 00:37:25,650 S3: won the first award? And like, had she gone on 824 00:37:25,650 --> 00:37:26,969 S3: to win album of the year, do you think she 825 00:37:26,969 --> 00:37:27,960 S3: still would have taken? 826 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,819 S1: I think so, I think it was just like whichever award, 827 00:37:29,820 --> 00:37:31,890 S1: like you might not win album of the you've won 828 00:37:31,890 --> 00:37:34,290 S1: this one, so like let's go. But also who knows, 829 00:37:34,290 --> 00:37:36,480 S1: like maybe the label is told by the Grammys she's 830 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,670 S1: going to do it. Maybe the Grammys are aware of 831 00:37:38,670 --> 00:37:41,970 S1: this happening. Like I wouldn't be surprised. I think your 832 00:37:41,969 --> 00:37:45,060 S1: point about her dancing to Olivia Rodrigo is really interesting, though, 833 00:37:45,060 --> 00:37:47,700 S1: because that's an example of where, like someone like Taylor 834 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:50,310 S1: really can't win. And so I sort of still feel 835 00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:52,830 S1: sympathy for her in the sense that there's so many 836 00:37:52,830 --> 00:37:56,070 S1: rumors that Olivia's album vampire is about Taylor and there's 837 00:37:56,070 --> 00:37:58,530 S1: this feud. So Taylor wants to show that's not true. 838 00:37:58,530 --> 00:38:01,680 S1: She's supporting a younger artist, good on her. But then, 839 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,900 S1: like the footage of her being the only person at 840 00:38:03,900 --> 00:38:07,020 S1: her table standing up and dancing kind of also looks 841 00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:10,050 S1: like she's making this moment about herself and that that's tricky. 842 00:38:10,050 --> 00:38:12,120 S1: Like you can't win in that situation. But I think 843 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,680 S1: all of these things together, like her announcing the album, dancing, 844 00:38:16,770 --> 00:38:19,830 S1: being in the background all the time, the Celine Dion 845 00:38:19,830 --> 00:38:23,400 S1: like perceived snubs, a little bit of Gus from Matt Bellamy, 846 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,950 S1: who hosts the town podcast out of Out of LA, 847 00:38:25,950 --> 00:38:28,470 S1: who says that he spoke to people in Taylor's camp 848 00:38:28,469 --> 00:38:32,370 S1: and they were aware that her taking that award from 849 00:38:32,370 --> 00:38:35,190 S1: Selena without sort of sharing her with praise or whatever, 850 00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:38,880 S1: was perceived badly, very, very quickly. And so they orchestrated 851 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,850 S1: that backstage photo of them. So, so for anyone who 852 00:38:41,850 --> 00:38:44,520 S1: thinks that we're overanalyzing and that people just, like, make 853 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,820 S1: mistakes and do things, no, no, no, everything you're seeing 854 00:38:47,820 --> 00:38:50,820 S1: is being hyper scripted and planned. And I think that's 855 00:38:50,820 --> 00:38:54,960 S1: why I find it a worthwhile topic to like, interrogate. 856 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,719 S1: But Mel, when we were talking about this yesterday after 857 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,900 S1: the Grammys, I was sharing some of these views and 858 00:39:00,900 --> 00:39:03,450 S1: you said something I thought was really interesting, like, well, 859 00:39:03,450 --> 00:39:06,419 S1: of course the backlash is coming. This is inevitable. She's 860 00:39:06,420 --> 00:39:10,589 S1: so powerful. Can you talk me through that? Like, why? 861 00:39:10,590 --> 00:39:13,560 S1: Why would it be inevitable to see this shift that 862 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:14,490 S1: we're talking about? 863 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,530 S2: Yeah, I do think, and particularly when you speak to 864 00:39:16,530 --> 00:39:18,630 S2: those points where she can't do right either way, and 865 00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:21,480 S2: when you start to see the narrative that it's always wrong, 866 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,790 S2: that's when you kind of maybe start to think, oh, 867 00:39:23,790 --> 00:39:25,739 S2: the backlash is coming. I think it's what you said before. 868 00:39:25,739 --> 00:39:29,550 S2: She is the most powerful female entertainer at the moment, 869 00:39:29,550 --> 00:39:34,800 S2: and I think media cycles thrive off kind of, you know, 870 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,110 S2: we build her up and people love that. And then 871 00:39:37,110 --> 00:39:39,600 S2: media like to tear her down and people love that. 872 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,130 S2: And I do think it's a cycle that you see 873 00:39:41,130 --> 00:39:44,850 S2: particularly with female stars. And we've seen it for many years. 874 00:39:44,850 --> 00:39:45,660 S2: You know, we. 875 00:39:45,660 --> 00:39:46,230 S4: I've spoken. 876 00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:48,509 S1: With Ben Affleck in Gone Girl. That's basically his speech 877 00:39:48,510 --> 00:39:49,140 S1: in that film is. 878 00:39:49,620 --> 00:39:49,980 S4: Yeah. 879 00:39:50,940 --> 00:39:53,069 S2: And like we've spoken before about the kind of, you know, 880 00:39:53,070 --> 00:39:55,140 S2: we've been revisiting a lot of these kind of stars 881 00:39:55,140 --> 00:40:00,600 S2: from from the 2000 Paris Hilton, um, Lindsay Lohan, Britney Spears, 882 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,750 S2: of course, stars that kind of female celebrities that go 883 00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:06,180 S2: up and then get torn down. And I do think 884 00:40:06,180 --> 00:40:08,460 S2: it is particular to the pop cycle as well, because 885 00:40:08,460 --> 00:40:11,399 S2: I think pop stars are. To reinvent themselves. They have 886 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,129 S2: a version of themselves, Britney and her kind of innocent era. 887 00:40:14,130 --> 00:40:16,440 S2: They get destroyed and then they have to rebuild themselves. 888 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,020 S2: Britney in her sexy era. And we've seen Tyler have 889 00:40:19,020 --> 00:40:22,770 S2: to do this before from 2016. Coming back to reputation, 890 00:40:22,770 --> 00:40:25,800 S2: I just think it's kind of like how I guess 891 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,650 S2: it's how capitalism. Holly. Holly might have some more insight 892 00:40:28,650 --> 00:40:31,200 S2: on this. Um, I'm gonna throw it back to Holly Candy. 893 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,900 S2: I guess it's how, like, kind of capitalism works in 894 00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:36,870 S2: a way. Like, it's how they fuel money and media 895 00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:39,390 S2: and power and celebrity. It's this kind of up and down, 896 00:40:39,390 --> 00:40:42,180 S2: and it is gendered. And I like I think it 897 00:40:42,180 --> 00:40:45,090 S2: is particularly gendered. But I mean, it won't surprise me 898 00:40:45,090 --> 00:40:48,630 S2: now if the backlash against Taylor kind of starts in force. 899 00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:51,270 S3: I appreciate that, but at the same time, it does 900 00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:55,080 S3: feel like, especially over the last maybe 12 months, as 901 00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,050 S3: Taylor has kind of gone into this almost like new level, 902 00:40:58,050 --> 00:41:02,400 S3: even for her of like total like it's like mass saturation, 903 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:06,629 S3: you know, the to uh, the album, the high profile relationship. 904 00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:09,210 S3: And it's just been like and we spoke about it 905 00:41:09,210 --> 00:41:10,770 S3: kind of on the pod last year. You know, she's 906 00:41:10,770 --> 00:41:14,130 S3: kind of in this almost like untouchable era. And so 907 00:41:14,130 --> 00:41:16,529 S3: it feels like then if you because there is a 908 00:41:16,530 --> 00:41:18,300 S3: culture of that kind of backlash and that all of 909 00:41:18,300 --> 00:41:20,160 S3: that stuff you said is valid and has happened before, 910 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,440 S3: but then if you do look to have a, I guess, 911 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,100 S3: a valid conversation about the way in which the, you know, 912 00:41:26,130 --> 00:41:29,070 S3: fandom has developed around her and her response to that. 913 00:41:29,070 --> 00:41:31,739 S3: And just, I guess, any kind of critique of Taylor 914 00:41:31,739 --> 00:41:35,370 S3: becomes this thing where it's like you, you're just part 915 00:41:35,370 --> 00:41:37,620 S3: of that problem in that you're, you know, tearing someone 916 00:41:37,620 --> 00:41:39,900 S3: down because they're on top, and then you just get 917 00:41:39,900 --> 00:41:42,150 S3: lost in the noise. Do you want. 918 00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:42,989 S2: Me to go with that? 919 00:41:43,260 --> 00:41:43,620 S4: Yeah. Yeah. 920 00:41:43,620 --> 00:41:45,240 S1: I mean, I feel like you're ready to respond. 921 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:50,279 S2: All right, well, look. Taylor. Taylor! Taylor! Mitchell! Over here. 922 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,120 S2: Thomas Mitchell has been, like, making this case that, you know, 923 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,360 S2: he's scared of the Swifties. They're gonna destroy him. He 924 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,319 S2: can't speak out against Taylor Swift because God, God, forsake 925 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,080 S2: the armies of Taylor fans that will come after him. 926 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,690 S2: I mean, I just don't buy it. You're on the 927 00:42:06,690 --> 00:42:08,910 S2: podcast now speaking out against Taylor Swift. And you know 928 00:42:08,910 --> 00:42:12,420 S2: what it really reminds me of? Like when obviously the 929 00:42:12,420 --> 00:42:14,489 S2: kind of politics of this are different. But when Ricky 930 00:42:14,489 --> 00:42:17,640 S2: Gervais stands up and does like a stand up set 931 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,880 S2: on Prime television and he says, I can't make the 932 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,400 S2: jokes I want to make anymore, and then he goes and. 933 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,560 S4: Makes the joke compare me to that's what. 934 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,860 S2: You're saying. I can't I can't criticize Taylor anymore. As 935 00:42:28,860 --> 00:42:31,560 S2: you continue to criticize Taylor like there is no I 936 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,960 S2: think you can say what you want about Taylor. And 937 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:39,480 S2: I mean, my concern is like that overexposed women often 938 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,700 S2: feel that they need to retreat from the limelight. Like 939 00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:44,219 S2: Margot Robbie was just saying it the other day that 940 00:42:44,219 --> 00:42:46,560 S2: she's concerned people are getting sick of her, and after Barbie, 941 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,080 S2: she wants to disappear. Jennifer Lawrence said the same thing 942 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,419 S2: that she was worried people were getting, you know, didn't 943 00:42:51,420 --> 00:42:53,759 S2: want to see her anymore. So she retreated. And like, 944 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,190 S2: I feel like that's what people want Taylor to do 945 00:42:56,190 --> 00:43:00,900 S2: because that's what we've seen really powerful women do is retreat, 946 00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:03,030 S2: and we're not getting that retreat. And then it's like, well, 947 00:43:03,030 --> 00:43:05,580 S2: we're silenced by her fans. And I just I don't 948 00:43:05,580 --> 00:43:06,690 S2: really buy it. 949 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,350 S1: It is it's not going to be great optics if 950 00:43:10,350 --> 00:43:12,720 S1: I weigh in here and say, well, I actually agree. 951 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,810 S1: I agree with Thomas. Um, because I think, I mean, 952 00:43:15,810 --> 00:43:18,960 S1: everything you said is right. Melanie. Also, you know, like 953 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,239 S1: we write, things were criticized by people. That's part and 954 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,400 S1: parcel of the job. So it's not it's not a 955 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,080 S1: great enough excuse for us to be like, oh, we're 956 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,270 S1: too scared to write about it. But at the same time, 957 00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:29,129 S1: it is also true. And it has been true for 958 00:43:29,130 --> 00:43:32,160 S1: a long time that a lot of pop artists, but 959 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,310 S1: Taylor's fan base in particular, are very good at like 960 00:43:35,310 --> 00:43:39,210 S1: organizing and flaming and trolling critics who give her albums 961 00:43:39,210 --> 00:43:41,670 S1: reviews that are less glowing, that there should be people 962 00:43:41,670 --> 00:43:45,360 S1: who kind of talk about these issues and that that 963 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,460 S1: I think has and I think this is what we 964 00:43:47,460 --> 00:43:50,100 S1: saw last year. Like, I don't think Taylor got to 965 00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:53,250 S1: the position she's in now with the biggest tour ever 966 00:43:53,250 --> 00:43:57,810 S1: and complete control of every part of the industry and 967 00:43:57,810 --> 00:44:01,080 S1: music media just by being a good artist. I actually 968 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,730 S1: think the way that she has leveraged and and nurtured 969 00:44:05,730 --> 00:44:07,680 S1: her fan base has been a big part of that, 970 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:12,839 S1: including to the point of awards, groups, awards, bodies, media 971 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,710 S1: outlets thinking basically the path of least resistance for me 972 00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:18,780 S1: is just to say how great all of this is, 973 00:44:18,780 --> 00:44:21,360 S1: because I'll get heaps of traffic from that, I'll get 974 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,549 S1: viewership from that, and I won't have to deal with 975 00:44:23,550 --> 00:44:27,180 S1: the headache of complaints, you know, and dealing with like angry, 976 00:44:27,180 --> 00:44:29,790 S1: angry Swifties. So I think that is a real force 977 00:44:29,790 --> 00:44:32,340 S1: that is worth talking about. Because what does it mean 978 00:44:32,340 --> 00:44:35,669 S1: if she and her fan base continue to maintain that 979 00:44:35,670 --> 00:44:38,130 S1: dominance on all of this stuff? And I. But I 980 00:44:38,130 --> 00:44:39,810 S1: also think there is something to figure out here. I 981 00:44:39,810 --> 00:44:41,910 S1: was trying to think of a comparison for this, and 982 00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:43,530 S1: I'm sorry to bring it back to politics, but I 983 00:44:43,530 --> 00:44:46,350 S1: think like there's a there's a Hillary Clinton like comment 984 00:44:46,380 --> 00:44:49,260 S1: to be made here in the sense that does Hillary 985 00:44:49,260 --> 00:44:53,610 S1: Clinton or did in the campaign receive unfair coverage because 986 00:44:53,610 --> 00:44:56,759 S1: of her gender and because of the way society is 987 00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,609 S1: trained to think about women in positions of power, like 100%? 988 00:44:59,610 --> 00:45:02,820 S1: Does that mean that there aren't valid things to criticize 989 00:45:02,820 --> 00:45:06,509 S1: someone of that level? And I think that's true in 990 00:45:06,510 --> 00:45:09,330 S1: both instances, and I think the difference between the comparisons. 991 00:45:09,430 --> 00:45:12,580 S1: You were making mail about Britney Spears and even like 992 00:45:12,580 --> 00:45:16,000 S1: Jennifer Lawrence is that we're not in the 90s or 993 00:45:16,030 --> 00:45:18,550 S1: 2000 anymore. We're in a slightly different era, and Taylor 994 00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:20,890 S1: Swift has more power than all of those people combined. 995 00:45:20,890 --> 00:45:24,070 S1: So she's very good, I think, at continually trying to 996 00:45:24,070 --> 00:45:26,320 S1: remind people that she's still an underdog. She's just a 997 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,239 S1: young woman trying to make it into a man's world. 998 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,899 S1: That's true to an extent. She's also a billionaire, ruthless 999 00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:36,460 S1: corporate political media entertainment operator that needs to be interrogated 1000 00:45:36,460 --> 00:45:37,360 S1: from that perspective. 1001 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,460 S2: Yeah, and I completely agree with you. Like, I think 1002 00:45:39,460 --> 00:45:43,960 S2: that it is incredibly important to interrogate the systems that 1003 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:48,070 S2: create and sustain power, whether that's in culture or beyond. Like, 1004 00:45:48,070 --> 00:45:51,280 S2: I don't think Taylor should be free from criticism for 1005 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,830 S2: any extent, whether that's as an artist, whether that's as 1006 00:45:53,830 --> 00:45:56,200 S2: a as a performer, or whether that's the role she 1007 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,560 S2: plays in the kind of broader entertainment industry. And like, 1008 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,170 S2: I think there are many, many valid criticisms to make 1009 00:46:02,170 --> 00:46:07,000 S2: about her her politics, her style, her shows. Um, I 1010 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,089 S2: guess my kind of only concern is that and of course, 1011 00:46:10,090 --> 00:46:13,930 S2: people write those, well, well-thought through pieces. My only concern 1012 00:46:13,930 --> 00:46:17,110 S2: is when it seeps into the culture in a more bullying, 1013 00:46:17,110 --> 00:46:20,320 S2: nefarious kind of way and you get the kind of 1014 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:25,000 S2: takedowns that aren't these kind of reasonable, thoughtful explorations. They 1015 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,540 S2: are just takedowns. It's the kind of ready to go 1016 00:46:28,540 --> 00:46:31,419 S2: burn Taylor at the stake, because she didn't hug Celine 1017 00:46:31,420 --> 00:46:33,760 S2: Dion when she got her award. You know, I think 1018 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,830 S2: it's when it's that and that is what. And I 1019 00:46:35,830 --> 00:46:37,660 S2: hope you are right. I hope we have changed like 1020 00:46:37,660 --> 00:46:39,310 S2: from the past. Like, I hope this isn't an Amy 1021 00:46:39,310 --> 00:46:43,420 S2: Winehouse situation when every single media organization suddenly turns on 1022 00:46:43,420 --> 00:46:46,810 S2: a female artist and destroys them, the baying for blood like, 1023 00:46:46,810 --> 00:46:48,609 S2: I hope we have developed from that and I hope 1024 00:46:48,610 --> 00:46:50,770 S2: we are in a different era, because of course, there's 1025 00:46:50,770 --> 00:46:55,030 S2: a place for like, well reasoned and thought through kind 1026 00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:57,489 S2: of explorations into into powerful figures. 1027 00:46:57,489 --> 00:46:59,710 S1: Yeah, yeah, I was just thinking about how to make 1028 00:46:59,710 --> 00:47:02,560 S1: this concrete like, rather than just this being a esoteric 1029 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,259 S1: debate about who has the right to criticize Taylor's thinking, like, well, 1030 00:47:05,260 --> 00:47:07,330 S1: what would you criticize her for? And, and kind of 1031 00:47:07,330 --> 00:47:09,040 S1: I think where I've landed is and it's actually not 1032 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,980 S1: really a criticism of her. I think it's really interesting 1033 00:47:11,980 --> 00:47:14,200 S1: that there has been basically no one in the music 1034 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,230 S1: industry who says it is kind of weird. The last 1035 00:47:17,230 --> 00:47:19,390 S1: black woman to win album of the year was Lauryn 1036 00:47:19,390 --> 00:47:23,230 S1: Hill in 1999. Beyoncé has never one. Jay-Z brought it up, 1037 00:47:23,230 --> 00:47:26,350 S1: and that happens in a year where Taylor wins again. 1038 00:47:26,469 --> 00:47:29,950 S1: I think that is an example where people are too scared, 1039 00:47:29,950 --> 00:47:33,130 S1: whether they're artists or music industry figures or critics, to 1040 00:47:33,130 --> 00:47:36,340 S1: really be vocal and say the Academy has a problem, 1041 00:47:36,340 --> 00:47:39,040 S1: the Recording Academy has a problem, the awards have a problem. 1042 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,650 S1: The industry has got a problem here because they're scared 1043 00:47:41,650 --> 00:47:44,890 S1: of being perceived as saying Taylor didn't deserve that award. 1044 00:47:44,890 --> 00:47:47,440 S1: I think that is like an example of where the 1045 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:49,989 S1: discourse has gotten a little bit constrained. And I think 1046 00:47:49,989 --> 00:47:53,620 S1: that's not good for like nurturing a generation of like 1047 00:47:53,620 --> 00:47:56,109 S1: artists who aren't Taylor. And I think what that might 1048 00:47:56,110 --> 00:47:58,900 S1: end up meaning is that unlike what things felt like five, 1049 00:47:58,900 --> 00:48:01,420 S1: ten years ago, the next ten years could be the 1050 00:48:01,420 --> 00:48:05,680 S1: era of Sabrina Carpenter and Olivia Rodrigo again, also fine artists. 1051 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,109 S1: But is that going to be another 20 years where, like, 1052 00:48:08,110 --> 00:48:10,450 S1: no black woman wins? That's not good. 1053 00:48:10,450 --> 00:48:11,620 S2: Yeah, yeah, that's spot on. 1054 00:48:12,100 --> 00:48:14,680 S3: And you, I presume you will both be cheering on 1055 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:16,270 S3: at the years too, or shortly in the next couple 1056 00:48:16,270 --> 00:48:16,779 S3: of weeks. 1057 00:48:16,780 --> 00:48:18,910 S2: Well can I now maybe, maybe we don't have to 1058 00:48:18,910 --> 00:48:21,550 S2: go into this. But if there's I would be interested 1059 00:48:21,550 --> 00:48:24,069 S2: to know about what you actually think of Taylor as 1060 00:48:24,070 --> 00:48:25,990 S2: an artist. I know we're kind of talking about the 1061 00:48:25,989 --> 00:48:28,899 S2: broader things here, but as a songwriter and as a performer, 1062 00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:31,240 S2: do you guys actually like her music? Yeah, I think 1063 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:31,629 S2: we both. 1064 00:48:31,630 --> 00:48:32,770 S3: I mean, I know we've both been. 1065 00:48:32,770 --> 00:48:34,689 S1: On this pod and I've been on the record saying 1066 00:48:34,690 --> 00:48:35,739 S1: that she's very, very good. 1067 00:48:35,739 --> 00:48:38,290 S3: Yeah, I think she's a super talented artist. Amazing. Like 1068 00:48:38,290 --> 00:48:40,779 S3: especially in terms of her songwriting ability. Like that's an 1069 00:48:40,780 --> 00:48:44,170 S3: incredible pop song. I find her like personally a bit annoying. Like, 1070 00:48:44,170 --> 00:48:45,670 S3: I don't reckon I would hang out with her if, like, 1071 00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:48,460 S3: we're in the same crew. I think she might like 1072 00:48:48,460 --> 00:48:51,340 S3: be a bit annoying to me. Like, I mean, even 1073 00:48:51,340 --> 00:48:53,530 S3: the name of the album, like the torture. I've got 1074 00:48:53,530 --> 00:48:53,710 S3: to say. 1075 00:48:53,710 --> 00:48:55,719 S1: This is the first album where I'm like, cringing very 1076 00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,150 S1: hard before it's at, just based on the song titles 1077 00:48:58,150 --> 00:49:00,250 S1: and things. But yeah, I mean, like, you know me, 1078 00:49:00,489 --> 00:49:02,680 S1: I much prefer to talk about the discourse around the 1079 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,720 S1: art than the art itself, which I think is pretty good. 1080 00:49:04,930 --> 00:49:09,190 S3: Yeah, but yes, I do like I'm been banging the 1081 00:49:09,190 --> 00:49:12,490 S3: album Midnights, not my favorite Taylor album. Um, but. 1082 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,010 S2: I find it, like, really interesting as kind of a 1083 00:49:15,010 --> 00:49:17,950 S2: different kind of pop star. Like if you look at, 1084 00:49:17,950 --> 00:49:20,740 S2: because I did watch the Eras tour, the kind of 1085 00:49:20,739 --> 00:49:23,500 S2: three hour bonanza, and even though I'd seen parts of 1086 00:49:23,500 --> 00:49:26,229 S2: it on TikTok, I didn't quite realize until I watch 1087 00:49:26,230 --> 00:49:29,319 S2: the full thing, like how little Taylor can dance and 1088 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,830 S2: how little vocally she is really doing in her music. 1089 00:49:32,830 --> 00:49:34,210 S2: And I went back and I watched like the Rihanna 1090 00:49:34,210 --> 00:49:36,430 S2: Super Bowl, and even though she was like super pregnant 1091 00:49:36,430 --> 00:49:39,400 S2: and not dancing heaps, the girl can still dance. Taylor 1092 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,340 S2: Swift's whole show is set up around avoiding her having 1093 00:49:42,340 --> 00:49:44,800 S2: to do any dancing. And I just think that's a 1094 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,710 S2: really interesting thing, because in the past, pop stars, female 1095 00:49:47,710 --> 00:49:50,169 S2: pop stars have had to dance and they still really do. 1096 00:49:50,170 --> 00:49:52,750 S2: Like Dua Lipa, for example, is dancing a lot. 1097 00:49:52,750 --> 00:49:55,180 S1: But I mean, she's not dancing great either. Let's not 1098 00:49:55,180 --> 00:49:55,840 S1: use Dua Lipa. 1099 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:57,310 S4: She's got better. Do you guys remember. 1100 00:49:57,310 --> 00:49:59,560 S3: How much Joselyn struggled in episode one of The Idol? 1101 00:49:59,860 --> 00:50:00,520 S4: Yeah. 1102 00:50:01,450 --> 00:50:03,940 S2: But I do think it's like, yeah, it's a big 1103 00:50:03,940 --> 00:50:06,760 S2: show to do when you're kind of the vocal. You know, 1104 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:07,660 S2: vocally it's not, but. 1105 00:50:07,870 --> 00:50:09,730 S1: You know what I mean? I. I agree with you. 1106 00:50:09,730 --> 00:50:11,890 S1: And I think but I think that also goes to 1107 00:50:11,890 --> 00:50:14,500 S1: like this is the subtext of a lot of what 1108 00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:17,290 S1: we're saying, like the grip that Taylor has on culture 1109 00:50:17,290 --> 00:50:21,100 S1: is really white culture. Right. And she is was a 1110 00:50:21,100 --> 00:50:24,850 S1: conservative country artist who's broadened out and gotten older and 1111 00:50:24,850 --> 00:50:26,560 S1: is a bit more bold. And she swears now and 1112 00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,270 S1: talks about sex and all these sorts of things. But 1113 00:50:28,270 --> 00:50:31,840 S1: at her core, she wasn't like the Destiny's Child era. 1114 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,830 S1: She's not that sexy R&B vibe. She comes from the 1115 00:50:35,830 --> 00:50:37,990 S1: sitting on a stool playing a guitar kind of a thing. 1116 00:50:37,989 --> 00:50:39,969 S1: So I think you're spot on to pick up on that. 1117 00:50:39,969 --> 00:50:43,029 S1: I think there's like a very clear grounding of the 1118 00:50:43,030 --> 00:50:45,310 S1: kind of performer and artist she is. And even in 1119 00:50:45,310 --> 00:50:49,210 S1: these big stadium tours, she struts around, she does costume changes, 1120 00:50:49,210 --> 00:50:52,870 S1: but it's not a Rihanna or Beyonce style pop performance. 1121 00:50:53,620 --> 00:50:55,930 S2: Or even like a Kylie Minogue kind of from when 1122 00:50:55,930 --> 00:50:58,630 S2: she was kind of doing her major tours earlier on 1123 00:50:58,630 --> 00:51:01,330 S2: when she was younger. But, um, yeah. Interesting. 1124 00:51:01,420 --> 00:51:01,570 S4: Yeah. 1125 00:51:01,780 --> 00:51:04,090 S1: It's good to talk about Taylor fatigue like a week 1126 00:51:04,090 --> 00:51:07,420 S1: before she decides to come to Australia and just it's 1127 00:51:07,420 --> 00:51:10,299 S1: going to be non-stop like it's going to be it's 1128 00:51:10,300 --> 00:51:11,680 S1: going to be a lot if you're if you're a 1129 00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,200 S1: little bit over Taylor stuff, I think you should book 1130 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,180 S1: a holiday or something because it is going to be 1131 00:51:16,180 --> 00:51:18,160 S1: relentless over the next two weeks when she's here. 1132 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,410 S3: Yeah, the girls are excited, and I'd. 1133 00:51:20,410 --> 00:51:22,930 S2: Really like friendship bracelets with you guys, I think. Let 1134 00:51:22,930 --> 00:51:24,190 S2: the friendship bracelets. 1135 00:51:24,190 --> 00:51:26,500 S1: Yes, I would get around that. If you're organized those 1136 00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:27,520 S1: first mail, I would wear one. 1137 00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:28,030 S2: I'm not. 1138 00:51:30,850 --> 00:51:34,900 S1: All right, it's time for the return of Impress Your Friends, 1139 00:51:34,900 --> 00:51:38,650 S1: one of our favorite segment. It's our recommendations section of 1140 00:51:38,650 --> 00:51:41,049 S1: the podcast. This time I thought, because it's been a 1141 00:51:41,050 --> 00:51:43,210 S1: minute and we've had a big summer watching a lot 1142 00:51:43,210 --> 00:51:45,640 S1: of different things, it'd be fun to share something that 1143 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,779 S1: we enjoyed over the summer break, something we're watching right 1144 00:51:49,780 --> 00:51:54,430 S1: now and something we're looking forward to down the track. 1145 00:51:54,610 --> 00:51:55,930 S1: Do you guys want me to go first or do 1146 00:51:55,930 --> 00:51:56,620 S1: you want to want to? If you. 1147 00:51:56,620 --> 00:51:57,250 S4: Want to go, take it. 1148 00:51:57,250 --> 00:51:57,940 S3: Away you go. 1149 00:51:58,270 --> 00:52:02,860 S1: One of my fave recent film watchers is this movie 1150 00:52:02,860 --> 00:52:06,069 S1: called The Iron Claw, which I think we talked about 1151 00:52:06,070 --> 00:52:09,489 S1: when the trailer dropped last year. So A24 film written 1152 00:52:09,489 --> 00:52:12,819 S1: directed by Sean Durkin, who did The Nest most recently, 1153 00:52:12,820 --> 00:52:15,939 S1: it stars Zac Efron and Jeremy Alan White in their 1154 00:52:15,940 --> 00:52:20,020 S1: super jacked era. Uh, it's about the real life story 1155 00:52:20,020 --> 00:52:22,629 S1: of the Von Erich wrestling family in the 80s. Like 1156 00:52:22,630 --> 00:52:27,880 S1: professional wrestlers, it is a devastating movie. I don't want 1157 00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:29,410 S1: to give too much away. The story is there if 1158 00:52:29,410 --> 00:52:32,080 S1: you want to read about it. It is very, very sad. 1159 00:52:32,170 --> 00:52:36,700 S1: But it is a very beautifully made movie about family, 1160 00:52:36,700 --> 00:52:40,870 S1: about America, about, I think, like and Sean Durkin said 1161 00:52:40,870 --> 00:52:44,920 S1: this in his interviews about different visions of masculinity and 1162 00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,279 S1: toxic ones and how you can sort of save yourselves 1163 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,100 S1: from it. And I couldn't really help but think about 1164 00:52:51,100 --> 00:52:53,590 S1: it in the context of the rise of Andrew Tate 1165 00:52:53,590 --> 00:52:55,720 S1: and people like him and the impact that's having on 1166 00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,660 S1: a generation, and Zac Efron and Jeremy Ellen White making 1167 00:52:58,660 --> 00:53:02,710 S1: a movie that seems macho and intense and all about big, 1168 00:53:02,710 --> 00:53:06,790 S1: giant fellas ultimately being a movie about how to love 1169 00:53:06,790 --> 00:53:11,140 S1: and look after people was quite moving and powerful to me. 1170 00:53:11,140 --> 00:53:12,580 S1: I don't know if you guys have seen this one. 1171 00:53:12,580 --> 00:53:13,210 S1: Have you guys seen it? 1172 00:53:13,420 --> 00:53:15,609 S3: No, I can't believe I haven't because it's obviously got 1173 00:53:15,610 --> 00:53:18,520 S3: Jeremy Allen White in it and it's made by A24. 1174 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,100 S3: And so I love those two things independently, but I 1175 00:53:21,100 --> 00:53:22,570 S3: haven't seen it yet. But it's so funny because one 1176 00:53:22,570 --> 00:53:26,169 S3: of my friends who actually is a professional wrestler was like, 1177 00:53:26,170 --> 00:53:28,180 S3: I'm going to see the Iron Claw. And I was like, sweet. 1178 00:53:28,180 --> 00:53:29,529 S3: And he takes me to outside and he was like, 1179 00:53:29,530 --> 00:53:31,330 S3: saw it? So shit, not enough wrestling. 1180 00:53:31,870 --> 00:53:33,490 S1: So I reckon this is a lot of people who 1181 00:53:33,489 --> 00:53:35,890 S1: love wrestling are not into this movie because they say 1182 00:53:35,890 --> 00:53:38,290 S1: they've changed too much. And it's not enough about wrestling. 1183 00:53:38,290 --> 00:53:40,870 S1: It's like when I was leaving the cinema, actually, I 1184 00:53:40,870 --> 00:53:44,200 S1: heard someone talking about it's like, damn, uh, I thought 1185 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,590 S1: that was a sports drama, but actually everyone ex and like, 1186 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:50,110 S1: there was great wrestling stuff. It's a good sports movie 1187 00:53:50,110 --> 00:53:52,210 S1: in ways, but it is about kind of, I think, 1188 00:53:52,210 --> 00:53:54,609 S1: more cerebral stuff than just fellows beating each other up 1189 00:53:54,610 --> 00:53:56,620 S1: in the ring and everyone. When the when the Oscar 1190 00:53:56,620 --> 00:53:58,900 S1: nominations came out and everyone was losing their minds about 1191 00:53:58,900 --> 00:54:01,990 S1: Bobby only getting eight nominations instead of ten or whatever, 1192 00:54:01,989 --> 00:54:04,300 S1: I was furious about The Iron Club, which got zero. 1193 00:54:04,330 --> 00:54:06,489 S1: I think Zach is doing something very special in this. 1194 00:54:06,489 --> 00:54:07,239 S1: I was pretty upset. 1195 00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,399 S2: Wow, I haven't seen it, but you've sold it to me. 1196 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,110 S2: The last film you told me made you cry past 1197 00:54:11,110 --> 00:54:14,440 S2: Lives also also was wonderful. So I'm also I love 1198 00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,900 S2: the idea of like, you know, everyone thinks they're going 1199 00:54:16,900 --> 00:54:19,120 S2: in to see these big, bulky men and then it's 1200 00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,969 S2: just feelings by covert kind of filmmaking. 1201 00:54:22,660 --> 00:54:26,800 S1: Exactly, exactly. Um, the shows that I'm watching now, there's 1202 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:28,629 S1: two of them, but they're pretty different, so I thought 1203 00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:32,290 S1: I'd flag them both. This has just hit Amazon Prime 1204 00:54:32,290 --> 00:54:35,560 S1: in the past few days. It is the latest version 1205 00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:39,160 S1: of Mr. and Mrs. Smith from the 2005 movie, I 1206 00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,830 S1: think by Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. Very fun, very 1207 00:54:41,830 --> 00:54:44,950 S1: silly movie like not amazing, but it's great. This this show, 1208 00:54:44,950 --> 00:54:48,310 S1: this sort of retelling, uh, stars Donald Glover and Maya 1209 00:54:48,310 --> 00:54:51,430 S1: Erskine from Pen15. It was originally a project for Donald 1210 00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:54,130 S1: Glover and Phoebe Waller-Bridge, and she kind of exited, and 1211 00:54:54,130 --> 00:54:56,169 S1: that made me a bit sad and stressed because I'm like, oh, 1212 00:54:56,170 --> 00:54:58,720 S1: what's going to happen? But this show rules like the 1213 00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,990 S1: basic premise of this is Donald Glover, Maya Erskine play, 1214 00:55:02,020 --> 00:55:05,109 S1: I guess, like assassins or secret agents who get paired 1215 00:55:05,110 --> 00:55:07,750 S1: up and have to pretend to be married and solve missions. 1216 00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:10,359 S1: They also kind. Start to actually fall in love. The 1217 00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:13,480 S1: chemistry is awesome. It's filmed and set in New York. 1218 00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,510 S1: It is great, like action sequences. It's very thrilling. It's 1219 00:55:16,510 --> 00:55:19,120 S1: very fun. And they are killing it. It's like really, 1220 00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:20,890 S1: really worth a watch on Amazon Prime. 1221 00:55:20,890 --> 00:55:22,180 S3: Yeah, I've been very keen for that one. That was 1222 00:55:22,180 --> 00:55:25,000 S3: originally Phoebe Waller-Bridge was attached to that and then she 1223 00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:26,110 S3: dropped out. But like, stop. 1224 00:55:26,110 --> 00:55:28,330 S1: Talking, you weren't listening. I said all that up. 1225 00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,760 S2: So I have watched the first episode, and I think 1226 00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,310 S2: the pairing of them two is so good and I'm 1227 00:55:36,310 --> 00:55:38,020 S2: going to keep going. It's very fun and it's a 1228 00:55:38,020 --> 00:55:41,290 S2: great starting episode. Like it's not, it's slow, but a 1229 00:55:41,290 --> 00:55:42,370 S2: lot of drama too. 1230 00:55:42,370 --> 00:55:44,050 S1: I kind of wish it hadn't been a binge drop. 1231 00:55:44,050 --> 00:55:46,060 S1: I feel like if this was being dropped, you know, 1232 00:55:46,060 --> 00:55:47,830 S1: eight episodes week by week, it'd be something that would 1233 00:55:47,830 --> 00:55:49,600 S1: build up steam and it'd be a really fun one 1234 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,480 S1: to talk about. But who knows how these streamers make 1235 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:53,259 S1: these decisions. 1236 00:55:53,260 --> 00:55:56,500 S3: I find that Donald Glover does like really interesting decision making, 1237 00:55:56,500 --> 00:55:59,290 S3: like he's done such a strange career, like from obviously 1238 00:55:59,290 --> 00:56:01,779 S3: Childish Gambino and then like doing the community stuff and now, 1239 00:56:01,780 --> 00:56:04,480 S3: like this project, he's like, he's someone who I really 1240 00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:05,020 S3: respect his. 1241 00:56:05,020 --> 00:56:05,770 S4: Choices and. 1242 00:56:05,770 --> 00:56:07,090 S2: Is the same director. Is Atlanta. 1243 00:56:07,090 --> 00:56:10,360 S1: Right? Yeah. Here on Murai, who is an amazing director, 1244 00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,910 S1: does such a great job with this one. Yeah. Um, 1245 00:56:12,910 --> 00:56:15,370 S1: the other show that I'm watching and this is something 1246 00:56:15,370 --> 00:56:19,240 S1: I've just gotten into, it's it's not out currently, like 1247 00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:22,270 S1: it's a reality show, but all seasons are on Paramount Plus, 1248 00:56:22,270 --> 00:56:25,029 S1: which is where I'm watching. It's called The Traitors. This 1249 00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:27,310 S1: is a reality show. I don't know if either of 1250 00:56:27,310 --> 00:56:29,770 S1: you guys have played the game Mafia before. It's like 1251 00:56:29,770 --> 00:56:31,930 S1: a party game where you all sit around a table. 1252 00:56:31,930 --> 00:56:34,930 S1: Some people call it wolves and or werewolves and like, 1253 00:56:34,930 --> 00:56:37,540 S1: you have like eight people or whatever. And there's a, 1254 00:56:37,540 --> 00:56:41,259 S1: there's someone who's, uh, decides who's like the mafia or 1255 00:56:41,260 --> 00:56:44,200 S1: the killers. It's three people decide there are three people 1256 00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:46,210 S1: chosen to do that, and everyone else is a villager. 1257 00:56:46,210 --> 00:56:48,760 S1: And you have to, like, secretly vote to kill people. 1258 00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:50,800 S1: And the villagers have to decide who's the mafia and 1259 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:52,570 S1: punish them. It's like a fun party game. I'm doing 1260 00:56:52,570 --> 00:56:54,160 S1: a pretty bad job of explaining anyway. 1261 00:56:54,430 --> 00:56:55,810 S4: They've been that time. 1262 00:56:56,260 --> 00:56:59,770 S1: They've taken that idea and put it in real world. 1263 00:56:59,770 --> 00:57:02,049 S1: In in the UK version, which I'm watching, it's set 1264 00:57:02,050 --> 00:57:04,359 S1: in this like Scottish castle, and it's played out over 1265 00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:05,980 S1: the course of like two weeks, where they all live 1266 00:57:05,980 --> 00:57:09,160 S1: together and do challenges together and have to decide who 1267 00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,710 S1: to kill and who to banish. I've watched the first 1268 00:57:11,710 --> 00:57:14,320 S1: season of the Australian version, which is amazing. Like if 1269 00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,560 S1: you like The Mole or Survivor, think about survivor, but 1270 00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:21,280 S1: without the physical element, just the psychological game playing. That 1271 00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,340 S1: is what this show is. It rules. It is so good. 1272 00:57:24,340 --> 00:57:25,690 S2: What are they competing for? Is it cash. 1273 00:57:25,690 --> 00:57:26,500 S4: Prize? Oh, there's a. 1274 00:57:26,500 --> 00:57:29,380 S1: There's a cash prize. Yeah. It's like $250,000 or something. 1275 00:57:29,380 --> 00:57:30,730 S3: It's so funny. I think when it came out on 1276 00:57:30,730 --> 00:57:33,340 S3: ten it like did really bad numbers and like kind 1277 00:57:33,340 --> 00:57:37,630 S3: of like disappeared without like any kind of ripple and then. Yeah, 1278 00:57:37,630 --> 00:57:40,870 S3: like it's obviously sitting on Paramount now. Um, it seems 1279 00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:42,250 S3: like such a show you would be into. I can 1280 00:57:42,250 --> 00:57:43,930 S3: imagine you on the actual show. 1281 00:57:43,930 --> 00:57:45,550 S4: Itself probably. 1282 00:57:45,550 --> 00:57:47,500 S3: Winning or being out first week. That would be like 1283 00:57:47,500 --> 00:57:48,490 S3: the two options for you. 1284 00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,460 S1: Honestly, I could not, um, I could not think of 1285 00:57:51,460 --> 00:57:53,200 S1: a better way to spend a couple of weeks of 1286 00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:54,550 S1: my life than on this show. I would love to 1287 00:57:54,550 --> 00:57:55,930 S1: be on the show. I think it'd be very good 1288 00:57:55,930 --> 00:57:58,960 S1: on the show. The Australian version is hosted by Roger Corser, 1289 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,000 S1: which is awesome. He does a great job. He plays 1290 00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,030 S1: it very camp. And in the second season, Guyton Grantley 1291 00:58:04,030 --> 00:58:06,730 S1: is like a contestant, which is a fun underbelly reunion. 1292 00:58:06,730 --> 00:58:09,100 S1: But one of the great things is on the first season, 1293 00:58:09,100 --> 00:58:11,170 S1: people can like, lie about what they do, right? And 1294 00:58:11,170 --> 00:58:13,000 S1: like most people have boring jobs so they don't lie. 1295 00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,310 S1: But on the first season, there's this guy, Nigel Brennan. 1296 00:58:15,310 --> 00:58:18,790 S1: I don't know if you guys remember that name. He's Australia's, uh, 1297 00:58:18,790 --> 00:58:22,120 S1: only living, like, longest surviving hostage or something. He was 1298 00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,060 S1: taken hostage in Somalia for, like, two years and now 1299 00:58:25,060 --> 00:58:28,240 S1: is a professional hostage negotiator and, like, crisis management consultant. 1300 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:32,290 S1: And he tells everyone he's like a university, like, um, 1301 00:58:32,290 --> 00:58:35,350 S1: like pastoral care worker or whatever. And you just see 1302 00:58:35,350 --> 00:58:37,480 S1: him pull all the strings. It's really, really fun. 1303 00:58:38,350 --> 00:58:40,630 S3: Yeah. That's cool. I've seen you. I've seen you, like 1304 00:58:40,630 --> 00:58:43,180 S3: famously posting about the show. I'm like, I can't believe 1305 00:58:43,180 --> 00:58:44,200 S3: this guy's watching traitors. 1306 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,960 S1: Like, he's. It's great. It's great. I think you guys 1307 00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:48,670 S1: should watch him. We should talk about it down the track. 1308 00:58:48,670 --> 00:58:51,130 S1: Maybe in advance of the next Australian season. The final 1309 00:58:51,130 --> 00:58:52,870 S1: thing that I wanted to, to shout out that I'm 1310 00:58:52,870 --> 00:58:55,360 S1: excited about coming up, and this is for all the 1311 00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,880 S1: freaks who thought Saltburn was a good film. If you 1312 00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:02,830 S1: want to watch some real class based thrilling drama, Get 1313 00:59:02,830 --> 00:59:05,830 S1: Excited about Ripley, which is coming out on Netflix. It's 1314 00:59:05,830 --> 00:59:09,190 S1: based on Patricia Highsmith novel The Talented Mr. Ripley, one 1315 00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:11,229 S1: of my favorite films of all time, talked about enough. 1316 00:59:11,230 --> 00:59:13,990 S1: It stars Andrew Scott. So all you Fleabag heads who 1317 00:59:13,990 --> 00:59:15,310 S1: don't have anything to talk about other than the how 1318 00:59:15,310 --> 00:59:17,110 S1: much you love the hot priest should get on it 1319 00:59:17,110 --> 00:59:20,860 S1: as well. It's written directed by Steve Zaillian, who's the 1320 00:59:20,860 --> 00:59:24,640 S1: Oscar nominated writer behind Schindler's List, Moneyball, Gangs of New York, 1321 00:59:24,670 --> 00:59:28,270 S1: The Irishman, Let's fucking go, Ripley, it's coming. It's in 1322 00:59:28,270 --> 00:59:29,770 S1: black and white. I'm very ready. 1323 00:59:30,610 --> 00:59:32,590 S2: I cannot wait, I'm so excited. 1324 00:59:32,590 --> 00:59:34,120 S3: Yes, we're very excited about that one. I think I 1325 00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:35,470 S3: shouted that out at the end of last year is 1326 00:59:35,470 --> 00:59:38,950 S3: my my biggest one to watch for 2024. Um, but yes, 1327 00:59:38,950 --> 00:59:41,560 S3: that sounds great. I. Shall I go next? Yeah. 1328 00:59:41,590 --> 00:59:42,640 S1: Thomas, you take it away. 1329 00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,550 S3: Okay, cool. Well, I my kind of summer watch was 1330 00:59:45,550 --> 00:59:47,350 S3: a strange one, and it's not a new show, but 1331 00:59:47,350 --> 00:59:49,690 S3: I do feel like it's a show that didn't make 1332 00:59:49,690 --> 00:59:51,730 S3: much of an impact when it came out. And it's 1333 00:59:51,730 --> 00:59:56,800 S3: bupkis on binge. So bupkis is the Pete Davidson show. It's, uh, 1334 00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:00,460 S3: very much like an autobiographical show, um, where basically Pete 1335 01:00:00,460 --> 01:00:03,460 S3: Davidson is playing himself, and he kind of moves home 1336 01:00:03,460 --> 01:00:05,830 S3: to live with his mother. Um, he's living in her 1337 01:00:05,830 --> 01:00:08,290 S3: basement after he gets some kind of bad personal news. 1338 01:00:08,500 --> 01:00:12,610 S3: And it weirdly like, I really like Pete Davidson. So 1339 01:00:12,610 --> 01:00:14,200 S3: that's the kind of disclaimer if you don't, if you 1340 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:15,670 S3: and some people really don't like him. So if you 1341 01:00:15,670 --> 01:00:17,650 S3: don't like Pete Davidson, then probably won't like this show. 1342 01:00:17,650 --> 01:00:20,680 S3: But I find his delivery and his whole shtick actually 1343 01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:24,850 S3: kind of funny. Um, and, and it's almost like, and 1344 01:00:24,850 --> 01:00:26,680 S3: I know some people probably roll their eyes at this comparison, 1345 01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:29,500 S3: but it's almost like entourage for a new generation in 1346 01:00:29,530 --> 01:00:32,560 S3: that it has that voyeuristic like inside the kind of 1347 01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,350 S3: like famous circle world, but without like a lot of 1348 01:00:35,350 --> 01:00:37,840 S3: obviously the problems associated with entourage. And it's got like, 1349 01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,510 S3: you know, a 2024 lens and it's not really glamorous. 1350 01:00:40,510 --> 01:00:43,570 S3: Like he's living in Staten Island in a basement. Um, 1351 01:00:43,570 --> 01:00:45,640 S3: I find it, like, very funny. And it's also got 1352 01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:49,240 S3: an amazing cast. So Edie Falco as, like, as his mother. Oh, well, 1353 01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:52,900 S3: I think, you know, famously Carmel Soprano. Then you've got 1354 01:00:52,900 --> 01:00:56,260 S3: Brad Garrett. Uh, and the best part probably is, like 1355 01:00:56,260 --> 01:00:58,720 S3: Joe Pesci plays the grandfather. Oh, that's cool, that's cool. 1356 01:00:58,780 --> 01:01:01,750 S3: Like Joe Pesci does. Like, nothing like he doesn't. He 1357 01:01:01,900 --> 01:01:04,390 S3: doesn't work anymore. So he's like, fucking amazing in it. 1358 01:01:04,510 --> 01:01:07,330 S1: Brad Garrett is like Raymond's brother from Everybody Loves Raymond. 1359 01:01:07,330 --> 01:01:08,140 S4: Yeah, yeah. 1360 01:01:08,140 --> 01:01:10,450 S3: He's like, is his name Brad? And everybody loves Raymond. 1361 01:01:11,170 --> 01:01:13,330 S3: It's not important anyway. And then on top of that, 1362 01:01:13,330 --> 01:01:16,450 S3: it's got, um, it's like a stacked cast like al Gore, 1363 01:01:16,450 --> 01:01:18,670 S3: Jon Stewart, like a weird celebrity cameos that you would 1364 01:01:18,670 --> 01:01:20,890 S3: expect from a show like this. But also it's just. Yeah, 1365 01:01:20,890 --> 01:01:24,520 S3: I think it's like weirdly heartwarming. Like every episode is 1366 01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:26,230 S3: very clearly based on a real thing that happened to 1367 01:01:26,230 --> 01:01:30,850 S3: Pete Davidson, often intercut with, like, you know, pictures and 1368 01:01:30,850 --> 01:01:33,520 S3: videos of him like as a young child. Uh, so 1369 01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:35,770 S3: I find that very funny. That's bupkis on binge. Um, 1370 01:01:35,770 --> 01:01:38,770 S3: if that is your speed, is there an Ariana? No, 1371 01:01:38,770 --> 01:01:40,690 S3: but she's mentioned a lot, and they joke a lot 1372 01:01:40,690 --> 01:01:42,850 S3: about his short lived engagement. And then, like, his mom 1373 01:01:42,850 --> 01:01:44,440 S3: is obsessed with the song. Thank you. 1374 01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:46,120 S4: Yeah, yeah. She's always crying. 1375 01:01:46,270 --> 01:01:47,919 S3: When he comes. Like he comes down for breakfast. She's 1376 01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,470 S3: like playing it. He's like mom. Like, seriously. She's like. 1377 01:01:50,470 --> 01:01:52,750 S3: It's very catchy. She's a very talented songwriter. That's that's. 1378 01:01:52,750 --> 01:01:53,680 S4: Really good that that. 1379 01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:55,720 S2: Show really went under the radar, like I remember when 1380 01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:57,340 S2: it came out, but then no one was really like. 1381 01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:58,030 S4: Is it on? 1382 01:01:58,180 --> 01:01:59,470 S3: That's on binge? 1383 01:01:59,620 --> 01:02:01,390 S1: See, this is the thing. There's great shows, but no 1384 01:02:01,390 --> 01:02:02,440 S1: one knows where they are. 1385 01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:05,710 S3: Uh, and in terms of what I'm watching currently and 1386 01:02:05,710 --> 01:02:07,420 S3: what I think everyone should give a crack, it's actually 1387 01:02:07,420 --> 01:02:11,200 S3: out today. How's that for timely? That's one day on Netflix. Um, 1388 01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:14,680 S3: so that is based on the David Nicholls novel. Um, 1389 01:02:14,770 --> 01:02:17,380 S3: they previously made a movie about it, but essentially it's we. 1390 01:02:17,380 --> 01:02:19,660 S1: Nearly got through this without a book reference. On the 1391 01:02:19,660 --> 01:02:20,410 S1: first one back. 1392 01:02:21,460 --> 01:02:24,400 S3: I actually thought about, uh, one of my references being 1393 01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,430 S3: Salman Rushdie's new book, but I'll be in that. Um, yeah, 1394 01:02:27,430 --> 01:02:30,100 S3: it's basically based on the David Nicholls book. A couple who, 1395 01:02:30,100 --> 01:02:33,490 S3: you know, meet every day on, on the same date 1396 01:02:33,490 --> 01:02:36,130 S3: every year for 15 years, um, really kind of beautiful 1397 01:02:36,130 --> 01:02:38,680 S3: love story. And most importantly, it's got Leo Woodall in it, 1398 01:02:38,680 --> 01:02:41,500 S3: as in like Jack from The White Lotus. Uh, he's 1399 01:02:41,500 --> 01:02:43,030 S3: very charming. So I thought that was quite a it's 1400 01:02:43,030 --> 01:02:45,670 S3: quite a cute rom com. Valentine's day next week it's 1401 01:02:45,670 --> 01:02:46,690 S3: out on Netflix. That sounds. 1402 01:02:46,690 --> 01:02:49,840 S1: Great. There was a, um, uh, Anne Hathaway movie based 1403 01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:51,370 S1: on that book, too, which is not very good, I 1404 01:02:51,370 --> 01:02:52,210 S1: don't think. Correct. 1405 01:02:52,210 --> 01:02:53,950 S3: Yes, this is better than that. And just lastly, what 1406 01:02:53,950 --> 01:02:57,700 S3: I'm looking forward to is challenges. Um, the film, we've 1407 01:02:57,700 --> 01:02:59,170 S3: been waiting for that one for a while. So that 1408 01:02:59,170 --> 01:03:00,340 S3: is out April 26th. 1409 01:03:00,340 --> 01:03:03,760 S1: The Sexy Tennis one featuring Zendaya by Luca Guadagnino. Let's 1410 01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:05,950 S1: go look at this so much. Look forward to already. 1411 01:03:05,950 --> 01:03:07,390 S1: And Mel hasn't even gone yet. 1412 01:03:07,390 --> 01:03:07,900 S4: Oh, I haven't. 1413 01:03:07,900 --> 01:03:11,470 S2: Even gone my summer watch is poor things. Bye. Off 1414 01:03:11,470 --> 01:03:14,830 S2: you go, Greek director Yorgos Lanthimos. Thank you so much. 1415 01:03:14,860 --> 01:03:16,510 S2: Big day for the Greeks on this pod. And by 1416 01:03:16,510 --> 01:03:20,590 S2: Australian screenwriter Tony McNamara, who did the great. It's won 1417 01:03:20,590 --> 01:03:22,300 S2: a lot of awards already, and I'm sure it will 1418 01:03:22,300 --> 01:03:24,190 S2: clean up at the Oscars as well. This is the 1419 01:03:24,190 --> 01:03:26,140 S2: one with Emma Stone in it. Have you guys seen it? 1420 01:03:26,140 --> 01:03:26,440 S4: I have. 1421 01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:27,250 S3: Not yet, I have. 1422 01:03:27,250 --> 01:03:28,870 S1: I really liked it. I mean, I love yoga, I 1423 01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:32,709 S1: love his wacky, you know, sensibility. Emma was amazing. Mark 1424 01:03:32,710 --> 01:03:34,750 S1: Ruffalo was really great. I really enjoyed this film. 1425 01:03:34,750 --> 01:03:37,030 S2: Yeah, Willem Dafoe in it as well. It's the kind 1426 01:03:37,030 --> 01:03:40,150 S2: of take on the Frankenstein myth. Um, Emma Stone's playing 1427 01:03:40,150 --> 01:03:42,850 S2: this 19th century woman her corpses brought back to life. 1428 01:03:42,850 --> 01:03:45,580 S2: It's so kooky. It sounds it, but it's really very 1429 01:03:45,580 --> 01:03:47,890 S2: funny and clever and it's interestingly shot as well. Like 1430 01:03:47,890 --> 01:03:49,330 S2: it is a point of difference to some of these 1431 01:03:49,330 --> 01:03:51,730 S2: other films as well. While if you do lovey stuff, 1432 01:03:51,730 --> 01:03:54,340 S2: you'll you'll definitely like this as well. Just a master 1433 01:03:54,340 --> 01:03:56,890 S2: of filmmaking. And I thought that was a true delight. 1434 01:03:56,890 --> 01:03:58,330 S1: Great recommendation, really good film. 1435 01:03:58,750 --> 01:04:00,520 S2: In terms of what I'm watching right now. Look, I've 1436 01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,880 S2: kind of got into the ABC documentary nemesis, the. 1437 01:04:04,180 --> 01:04:04,510 S4: How. 1438 01:04:04,810 --> 01:04:07,660 S2: The politics kind of recap of the you're shaking your 1439 01:04:07,660 --> 01:04:08,530 S2: head at me. Okay. 1440 01:04:08,530 --> 01:04:10,570 S1: No, I got in trouble because I made a post 1441 01:04:10,570 --> 01:04:12,730 S1: about this, and then a lot of my friends turned up, 1442 01:04:12,730 --> 01:04:15,220 S1: worked on this show. So I'm sorry. I've heard great 1443 01:04:15,220 --> 01:04:17,350 S1: things about this show. I just like I don't. We 1444 01:04:17,350 --> 01:04:19,300 S1: just live through these guys, right? I don't really want 1445 01:04:19,300 --> 01:04:20,140 S1: to revisit it. 1446 01:04:20,500 --> 01:04:22,900 S2: I know, but you're not really revisiting it. What you're 1447 01:04:22,900 --> 01:04:26,050 S2: revisiting is how they're revisiting it. Like that's. And there's 1448 01:04:26,050 --> 01:04:28,030 S2: actually one thing that I love most about it is 1449 01:04:28,030 --> 01:04:30,820 S2: that every episode for the new prime minister, they get 1450 01:04:30,820 --> 01:04:33,760 S2: everyone to describe the Prime Minister in one word, and 1451 01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:36,430 S2: I would watch it just for watching everyone try to 1452 01:04:36,430 --> 01:04:36,940 S2: think pretty good. 1453 01:04:36,940 --> 01:04:38,500 S1: I feel like we should do that with random people 1454 01:04:38,500 --> 01:04:39,880 S1: we work with on this podcast. 1455 01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:41,110 S3: Yes, I was so keen. 1456 01:04:41,110 --> 01:04:41,410 S4: Yeah, I. 1457 01:04:41,410 --> 01:04:42,640 S2: Know, let's do a whole EP. 1458 01:04:42,790 --> 01:04:43,540 S3: Cantankerous. 1459 01:04:43,540 --> 01:04:44,380 S2: And I've also. 1460 01:04:45,130 --> 01:04:45,610 S4: I'm right here. 1461 01:04:45,610 --> 01:04:46,300 S1: I'm right here. Yeah. 1462 01:04:46,660 --> 01:04:47,380 S3: I'm looking at him. 1463 01:04:49,030 --> 01:04:49,990 S2: Well, meaning. 1464 01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:53,140 S4: Insufferable lazy. Okay, good. 1465 01:04:53,650 --> 01:04:56,620 S2: Um, and also I'll just shout out, uh, part of 1466 01:04:56,620 --> 01:04:58,960 S2: the family, obviously, but I'm watching maths for maybe the 1467 01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,420 S2: first time. I know Thomas is to. It's become what 1468 01:05:01,420 --> 01:05:02,290 S2: we talk about. Oh, hang on. Sorry. 1469 01:05:02,890 --> 01:05:05,830 S1: I think that's just your bonus check from nine coming in. 1470 01:05:06,820 --> 01:05:07,660 S4: Right. So. 1471 01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:09,830 S3: On TV on the greatest channel in the greatest country 1472 01:05:09,830 --> 01:05:10,160 S3: on earth. 1473 01:05:10,220 --> 01:05:12,680 S2: Yeah yeah yeah. Just getting better every season. But it 1474 01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:14,210 S2: is a lot of fun. It's the first time I've 1475 01:05:14,210 --> 01:05:16,070 S2: watched it through. It's kind of insane. I'm a bit 1476 01:05:16,070 --> 01:05:18,500 S2: shocked about how some of the things are still going, 1477 01:05:18,500 --> 01:05:21,530 S2: like how they're allowed, but, um, yeah, I mean, I'm 1478 01:05:21,530 --> 01:05:23,750 S2: sure we'll pick that up in other episodes. 1479 01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:25,070 S1: Don't be so sure. But we might. 1480 01:05:26,270 --> 01:05:29,600 S2: Yeah, well, when we do our reality TV, our competition episode. 1481 01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:33,080 S2: You're going on trader. I'm going to MAFs. Um, what 1482 01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,330 S2: I'm looking forward to. We flagged up before Dua Lipa's 1483 01:05:35,330 --> 01:05:37,939 S2: new album due out this year. I think she's having, like, 1484 01:05:37,940 --> 01:05:40,880 S2: she's kind of shone at all these awards ceremonies. She's 1485 01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:44,090 S2: rocking the red carpet, she's doing great performances. Houdini, I think, 1486 01:05:44,090 --> 01:05:46,189 S2: is really catchy. And if it's a taste of what's 1487 01:05:46,190 --> 01:05:48,710 S2: to come, I'm looking forward to, well, Taylor's going to 1488 01:05:48,710 --> 01:05:50,750 S2: be a bit sad and mournful, a bit in her 1489 01:05:50,750 --> 01:05:53,330 S2: Emily Dickinson era. Dua Lipa is going to be in 1490 01:05:53,330 --> 01:05:55,790 S2: her fun Party Girl era, which I'm looking forward to. 1491 01:05:55,820 --> 01:05:58,130 S1: Yeah, that's probably one of my most anticipated releases of 1492 01:05:58,130 --> 01:05:59,960 S1: the year, and Big Do ahead. Seen her a couple 1493 01:05:59,960 --> 01:06:02,750 S1: of times, had a great time and I thought Houdini 1494 01:06:02,750 --> 01:06:04,820 S1: like it took a bit to grow on me, but 1495 01:06:04,820 --> 01:06:07,430 S1: she's collaborating with like Tame Impala. That production is fun 1496 01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:09,919 S1: and a bit psychedelic and out there, and she's trying 1497 01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:12,230 S1: to dance like she seems to be really going for 1498 01:06:12,230 --> 01:06:14,390 S1: it and pushing herself, which is really all you can 1499 01:06:14,390 --> 01:06:15,440 S1: ask for from an artist. 1500 01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:16,850 S2: Yeah, yeah. And aren't we all? 1501 01:06:16,850 --> 01:06:18,350 S3: Yeah. And then as soon as she gets to the top, 1502 01:06:18,350 --> 01:06:19,010 S3: I'll be there. 1503 01:06:19,010 --> 01:06:19,430 S4: Ready? 1504 01:06:23,060 --> 01:06:26,090 S1: A great way to close the loop on our first episode. 1505 01:06:26,090 --> 01:06:29,090 S1: Back of the year, guys. Thomas. Mel. Really fun. Really 1506 01:06:29,090 --> 01:06:31,160 S1: happy to be doing the show with you again. Uh, 1507 01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:32,240 S1: hope you had a good time. 1508 01:06:32,630 --> 01:06:34,880 S2: Yeah, I'll be making my friendship bracelets. 1509 01:06:35,150 --> 01:06:35,600 S4: See ya. 1510 01:06:42,780 --> 01:06:45,690 S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Margaret Gordon. 1511 01:06:45,810 --> 01:06:48,420 S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, 1512 01:06:48,420 --> 01:06:51,120 S1: make sure to follow us in your favorite podcast app. 1513 01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,430 S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with 1514 01:06:53,430 --> 01:06:55,320 S1: a friend! I'm Osman Farooqui. 1515 01:06:55,350 --> 01:06:56,310 UU: See you next week!