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S1: We're not like playing Chutes and Ladders, okay? Our dad

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S1: just died. No, sorry.

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S2: I'm sad. You're just married to the boss's daughter, and

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S2: she doesn't even like you. And you are fair and

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S2: squarely fucked.

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S3: I get it done. Buckle you into your golden parachute, Carl. Well.

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S2: Don't push me out the plane so fast there, J.R..

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S4: If I get them in behind me, will you follow?

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S5: Welcome to the Drop and our Succession Recap podcast. I'm

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S5: Usman Farooqi. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and Mel Pembrey

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S5: to break down Episode four of Succession Season four. Mel,

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S5: welcome to the Pod. So excited to have you on board.

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S6: Thank you for having me. I think I've come on

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S6: at a great time, perfect.

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S5: Timing and can't wait to get into the chat with you.

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S5: Let's get into a kind of top line discussion about

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S5: this episode. I thought it was a pretty significant gear change.

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S5: This is the first episode across the entire show's history

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S5: to not have Brian Cox in it. And and it

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S5: was noticed. I think there was so many characters. There

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S5: was a real absence of a center of gravity, a

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S5: kind of a sun that everything else rotated around. It

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S5: was basically set in just 1 or 2 rooms, really

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S5: heavy on the dialogue and a real massive return to

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S5: form for for Kendall and a really extraordinary performance from

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S5: Jeremy Strong. How did you take this episode, Mel? What

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S5: your top line reactions?

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S6: Yeah, I thought they kept the intensity really high. Part

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S6: of me expected that after all the the enormity of

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S6: the last episode that they would maybe kind of take

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S6: it down a notch, kind of reset. It's that middle

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S6: of the season episode, but they didn't do that at all.

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S6: I thought they ratchet it up. And as you mentioned,

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S6: we were all set in one location. It was this

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S6: castle without a king. It was all set over a

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S6: kind of our leading up to that board meeting. And

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S6: it just was so tense, all the power playing going on.

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S6: So they really kept their foot on the accelerator. And

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S6: I thought they did really well in treading a line

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S6: between showing the genuine emotion that everyone is feeling about

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S6: the loss of Logan, particularly the siblings, without getting kind

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S6: of carried away with that grief, because grief is kind

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S6: of boring to watch for too long on a show.

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S6: So I thought they tread really well between the wheeling

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S6: and dealing, but then also having those moments of real,

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S6: genuine sadness that those siblings are obviously feeling.

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S5: Yeah, it's a really good point. I was a bit

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S5: worried that they would just kind of move on from

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S5: the emotion we felt in episode three, but there was

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S5: a little bit of the sense of, no, no, no.

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S5: We're still like in the immediate aftermath of that, we're

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S5: moving on. But these kids are still feeling it. We

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S5: haven't just contained all that emotion to just this one

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S5: really hectic episode. How about you, Thomas? How did you

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S5: feel about this one?

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S7: Yeah, I don't know. I kind of disagree. Like, for me,

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S7: it was a massive comedown. I thought, like, I didn't

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S7: think it had that same tension. I think it's natural.

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S7: Like it was impossible to obviously like episode three was

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S7: the biggest episode in the show's history, probably. And for

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S7: me it was like a massive comedown, like it felt

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S7: tonally very similar to episode one, which I think is

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S7: the weakest episode of the season so far. It felt

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S7: like an episode that was written with like the function

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S7: of what that episode needed to achieve in mind. I

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S7: didn't think it was a great episode. It was not

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S7: that funny. It was like everything that needed to happen did.

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S7: But yeah, I think it was a natural kind of

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S7: like slow burn from what was obviously a very intense

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S7: like explosion in episode three.

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S5: I feel like you're a kind of a guy. You

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S5: loved the big set pieces and watching that unfold, I

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S5: feel like this comparing it to episode one I think

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S5: is pretty smart because it felt like a reset episode.

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S5: One was putting all those pieces on the board, reminding

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S5: us where things were at the end of season three.

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S5: And this one again is like, okay, we need a

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S5: whole episode to sort of readjust to life post Logan

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S5: Roy before we can really get into it. And I

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S5: feel like this episode hinted at a lot more to come,

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S5: but it was still a pretty dense episode. I was

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S5: thinking about how we should tackle it, the three of us,

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S5: as we talk about it, and that was really just

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S5: like one main plot point. It was this discussion of like,

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S5: what should happen next. And there were a lot of

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S5: characters that featured that all had dialogue and a lot

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S5: of really curious interactions, people that we normally don't see

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S5: talking to one another or talking to another.

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S7: Some of those people never seen them before. Like Penelope is.

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S7: She's like, Who's Penelope? Who is Melanie? Which is obviously

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S7: something you ask yourself every day.

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S6: She's a she's a central character.

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S7: Because especially that scene where Kendall is walking in, he's

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S7: got the glasses on. He's like so deep in his like,

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S7: Kendall ism. And then everyone's like doing the, you know, like,

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S7: offering their condolences and stuff. But I was like strangers,

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S7: all of them strangers.

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S6: And I think it's that thing that there's all of

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S6: a sudden this vacuum and people come out of the

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S6: woodwork trying to achieve their their goals.

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S5: I wonder whether they just like Jesse Armstrong, had a

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S5: bunch of leftover budget for this season. And he's like

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S5: all these extras who never get lines. You can have

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S5: a line. We'll give you 50 K for this.

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S6: Yeah, we save some money on cons weddings, so let's

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S6: put it into this.

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S7: Yeah. Now that Brian Cox isn't getting paid anymore.

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S5: Let's let's do a quick recap of of what sort

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S5: of played out. So the episode opens with us kind

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S5: of getting a quick sense of where each of the

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S5: siblings are at. They're kind of still dealing with the

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S5: emotional fallout of their father's death. But very quickly, we

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S5: get a pretty big reveal, which is that Shiv is pregnant.

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S8: Devina will reach out to make an appointment for your

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S8: 20 week scan. But I'm thinking of you at this time.

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S5: But very quickly we move. From that setup of how

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S5: they're feeling to Logan's house. Sans Logan is where everyone

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S5: seems to be gathering. It's not quite a funeral or

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S5: a wake. It just seems to be Let's get everyone

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S5: together and figure out what happens next. There's a board

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S5: meeting scheduled. We find out pretty quickly for later that

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S5: day to decide on the interim CEO of Waystar Royco.

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S5: And that obviously elicits this scramble to decide who that

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S5: interim CEO will be.

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S2: I guess the question then would just be who might

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S2: we favor?

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S9: Gerri, obviously is a safe pair of hands. She's done

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S9: it recently. Yeah.

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S5: We see the kind of corporate execs, Tom refers to

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S5: them as the greybeards, deciding amongst themselves who it should be.

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S5: The siblings are quite keen to retain that control for themselves,

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S5: and these two factions end up colliding thanks to the

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S5: discovery of this piece of paper that seems to be

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S5: Logan's wishes.

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S10: It was suggested that it was your dad's wish that.

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S11: Kendall.

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S10: Take over as CEO.

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S5: But basically that piece of paper sets off the sequence

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S5: of events that sees Kendall and Roman teaming up, getting

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S5: the support they need to become the interim leaders of

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S5: the company. And then the very final sequence is this

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S5: discussion as to whether or not Kendall and Roman should be,

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S5: I guess, leaking against their dad. Roman's not quite into

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S5: that idea. He doesn't want to shit on his dad's

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S5: reputation when he's barely been dead for more than 24

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S5: or 48 hours. Kendall makes a secret deal with Hugo

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S5: to claim that his dad was losing the plot. And

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S5: we basically see Kendall become his dad in that moment.

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S5: The thing that stuck out to me, guys, about this

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S5: episode was just how keenly Logan's absence was felt that

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S5: the first half of the episode, at least everyone is

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S5: spinning around like a top. No one really knows what

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S5: to do. They're not quite sure who should be taking

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S5: the lead and coordinating things. They don't have any consensus

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S5: within each faction within themselves who should be leading the company, essentially.

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S5: And I think the best way to discuss where things

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S5: go from here, I think, is to look at each

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S5: of those different factions so we can look at the

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S5: the kind of the siblings and that kind of gray beard,

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S5: corporate exec level first. Like I find that that corporate

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S5: level drama more funny than like particularly exciting or revealing.

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S5: We spend a lot of time with those guys this

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S5: time around. How did you feel about when that scene

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S5: when they go into that kitchenette and they're all sort

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S5: of debating amongst themselves who should take this throne?

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S7: Yeah, it was interesting because it felt like, you know,

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S7: typically in succession you have or especially lately, you have

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S7: the kids as like one set of sequence of events

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S7: and then it bounces back to like the other greybeards

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S7: but normally led by Logan, whereas like, as you said,

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S7: obviously he was like missing now. And so it did

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S7: feel kind of weird. I was surprised at how quickly

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S7: Kyle seemed to step up, like Kyle was just like, bang,

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S7: kill us straight away. And like in that particularly in

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S7: that scene when they're in the kitchenette kind of having

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S7: a meeting. And I think I think it's Tom who

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S7: kind of puts his case forward for why perhaps he

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S7: should be in the conversation. And Kyle gives him this

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S7: speech where basically talks him through the optics of why

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S7: that would be a bad idea. And it is like

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S7: so scathing.

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S2: The negative case would go, you're a clumsy interloper and

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S2: no one trusts you. The only guy pulling for you

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S2: is dead and now you're just married to the.

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S7: I'm not convinced on the greybeards as like a power force.

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S7: I think they're a foil for now. We need to have, like,

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S7: something for the kids to play against, but I don't

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S7: see them as a significant threat.

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S5: Yeah, I think that's a real interesting point. It does

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S5: feel like we're spending time with them, partly because it's funny,

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S5: partly because these characters get great lines, but also they're

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S5: kind of like this. It's like a red herring. It's

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S5: like they just exist to be a counterbalance to the siblings.

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S5: Does that feel right to Amelia, Do you think there's

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S5: something more interesting happening with those guys?

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S6: Well, I will say we were talking about how much

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S6: dialogue there was in this episode, and I absolutely loved

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S6: that corporate level dialogue that was going on. I thought

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S6: it was so well written and there seemed to be

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S6: this consistent sense of like synonyms that just grew as

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S6: it happened. And particularly about like the piece of paper,

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S6: Like I loved that it was the paper situation. And

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S6: then someone called it a doodle, and then it was

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S6: amusing and then it was like a jerking over a

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S6: piece of paper He scribbled your name on like, I

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S6: really enjoyed this.

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S7: I like reducing it and reducing it.

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S6: Yeah, yeah. This interplay and the words, what do they mean?

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S6: And everyone's just power playing with the language the whole time.

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S6: And I really enjoyed that part of it.

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S5: Yeah, I agree with you, Mel, that dialogue, it reminded

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S5: me of this show that Jesse Armstrong's worked on before

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S5: The Thick of It, which is one of the best

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S5: political satires of all time, which is essentially like this

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S5: episode across a few seasons. It's just a bunch of

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S5: very smart, funny people in rooms making fun of each

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S5: other and using more and more absurd metaphors to to

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S5: basically take each other down beyond the kind of the

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S5: humor of it. We do see, like Carl and Frank

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S5: and Jerry all kind of make their own pitches. Do

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S5: you think that that is something that the show is

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S5: going to delve deeper into, or do you think that

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S5: this is just kind of us ticking off the boxes

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S5: to to get to a point of there? Probably no

225
00:10:55,410 --> 00:10:58,260
S5: one here has the support amongst their own colleagues. So

226
00:10:58,260 --> 00:11:00,840
S5: what chance do they have of actually getting enough support

227
00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:02,370
S5: to lead the entire company?

228
00:11:02,370 --> 00:11:05,130
S6: I think the show is going to delve further into

229
00:11:05,130 --> 00:11:08,880
S6: it and it's an extremely cynical and dark take because

230
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,000
S6: I love that during this whole time it's so clear

231
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,390
S6: that they all just want to get the best outcome

232
00:11:15,390 --> 00:11:18,120
S6: for themselves. And there's no talk about like we know

233
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,790
S6: Logan from what they've they've spoken about him before. He

234
00:11:20,790 --> 00:11:23,489
S6: was kind of right winged. He was into the tabloids.

235
00:11:23,490 --> 00:11:26,730
S6: He was anti environment like There's no talk of like

236
00:11:26,730 --> 00:11:30,689
S6: the potential shift vision wise this company could take. It's

237
00:11:30,690 --> 00:11:32,310
S6: all about what they can get out of it. And

238
00:11:32,309 --> 00:11:34,469
S6: I think one character mentions, you know, they've bought half

239
00:11:34,470 --> 00:11:39,150
S6: a Greek island. Another character, Hugo, another character. Hugo is

240
00:11:39,150 --> 00:11:42,180
S6: telling Kendall his daughter might be done for insider trading

241
00:11:42,179 --> 00:11:44,640
S6: because it gave her the hot tip that Logan had died.

242
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,620
S6: So I think they're all like it almost is like

243
00:11:46,620 --> 00:11:49,170
S6: that wholesale. They go into the China room, but it's

244
00:11:49,170 --> 00:11:51,719
S6: almost like they're grabbing as much China as they can

245
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,000
S6: while they can so they can all get out. Like

246
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,010
S6: I actually I think it will play out, but I

247
00:11:56,010 --> 00:11:58,469
S6: don't know how invested they are in the longevity of

248
00:11:58,470 --> 00:12:00,270
S6: the company. I think they all want the best thing

249
00:12:00,270 --> 00:12:02,099
S6: for themselves and then they're all out.

250
00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:04,590
S7: But see, I kind of disagree because the thing that

251
00:12:04,590 --> 00:12:07,830
S7: like kind of hovers over all of this and I

252
00:12:07,830 --> 00:12:10,380
S7: think Kendall says a couple of times, it's like theoretically

253
00:12:10,380 --> 00:12:12,450
S7: this big conversation. And it's like all this power play

254
00:12:12,450 --> 00:12:16,680
S7: is for like interim CEO because like, essentially the Gojo

255
00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,859
S7: deal is supposed to go through. And then it doesn't

256
00:12:18,860 --> 00:12:22,370
S7: really matter for anyone, like because then it'll all be

257
00:12:22,370 --> 00:12:24,770
S7: down to medicine and like it's all good. But like,

258
00:12:24,770 --> 00:12:27,680
S7: that's why I reckon all of this politicking about who's

259
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:29,900
S7: going to take over is the biggest clue that Gojo

260
00:12:29,900 --> 00:12:32,120
S7: deal is 100% falling over. I think I've said.

261
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,030
S5: This already once or twice, but I think it's worth

262
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:40,100
S5: returning to. I think everything we're talking about speaks to

263
00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:43,340
S5: the absence of Logan. Like this company is nothing without him.

264
00:12:43,340 --> 00:12:45,199
S5: Like your point mill, I think is so spot on

265
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,199
S5: that Logan created this company from nothing. He gave it vision.

266
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,780
S5: He gave it purpose for all of his faults. And

267
00:12:50,780 --> 00:12:53,689
S5: there are many of them. He had an ideological agenda

268
00:12:53,690 --> 00:12:57,050
S5: and he created a corporate entity to execute it. No

269
00:12:57,050 --> 00:13:00,589
S5: one else around him mirrors that at all. So it's like,

270
00:13:00,590 --> 00:13:04,429
S5: what is Waystar Royco without Logan? Roy Like, it's nothing.

271
00:13:04,429 --> 00:13:07,490
S5: It's a company with a name, with some assets and

272
00:13:07,490 --> 00:13:10,490
S5: a potential deal from which people might make a bit

273
00:13:10,490 --> 00:13:13,190
S5: of cash. There is no one at any level of

274
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:16,250
S5: this show left who really wants to do with it.

275
00:13:16,250 --> 00:13:18,740
S5: What Logan did. It seems to me, and.

276
00:13:18,740 --> 00:13:21,650
S6: I also think that's on a professional level. Yes. And

277
00:13:21,650 --> 00:13:23,660
S6: also on a personal level, like there was that quite

278
00:13:23,660 --> 00:13:27,140
S6: melancholy opening series of shots where you see the three

279
00:13:27,140 --> 00:13:30,410
S6: siblings each sad and they're having as well as the

280
00:13:30,410 --> 00:13:34,160
S6: business having its own kind of reinvention. These siblings are

281
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,910
S6: struggling to find a self identity that isn't linked to

282
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:41,780
S6: their father. Like who are they? Now that this paternal

283
00:13:41,780 --> 00:13:44,150
S6: link has been cut and you get that kind of

284
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:46,430
S6: there is this sense, I think, through it, of this

285
00:13:46,429 --> 00:13:51,620
S6: ennui of, well, who are redefining themselves without Logan and

286
00:13:51,620 --> 00:13:54,230
S6: can they redefine themselves. And I think they slip into

287
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:58,099
S6: these old patterns of behavior because what else are they

288
00:13:58,100 --> 00:14:00,710
S6: like if they're not doing this and they're not playing

289
00:14:00,710 --> 00:14:03,230
S6: their dad's game, what game do they play?

290
00:14:03,230 --> 00:14:06,290
S5: I think that's really, really interesting. And a really smart

291
00:14:06,290 --> 00:14:07,100
S5: observation I.

292
00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:08,900
S7: Think is so smart. Probably the smartest thing that's been

293
00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:10,790
S7: said on this podcast so far, I reckon. You reckon you.

294
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:11,360
S6: Guys will have me.

295
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,250
S5: Back? I don't even know what I don't even know

296
00:14:13,250 --> 00:14:15,710
S5: what a new guy is. But but it felt right

297
00:14:16,190 --> 00:14:17,060
S5: in that quote, dude.

298
00:14:17,390 --> 00:14:19,940
S6: Yeah, I'm bringing French philosophy to the drop.

299
00:14:21,380 --> 00:14:23,810
S5: Let's use that as an opportunity to talk about the siblings,

300
00:14:23,810 --> 00:14:27,170
S5: because I do think that this was a really significant

301
00:14:27,170 --> 00:14:29,989
S5: episode for Kendall and Jeremy Strong, who plays him. I

302
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:32,990
S5: feel like the first three episodes, Kendall's taken a bit

303
00:14:32,990 --> 00:14:36,680
S5: of a backseat. He started to to take control towards

304
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,740
S5: the end of episode three when he sort of takes

305
00:14:39,740 --> 00:14:43,280
S5: the reins after Logan passes away and tells his siblings

306
00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:46,130
S5: how they should handle this situation. But the first couple episodes,

307
00:14:46,130 --> 00:14:48,500
S5: he was just chilling. He was happy to sort of,

308
00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:51,020
S5: you know, be led by what Shiv and Roman were doing.

309
00:14:51,020 --> 00:14:53,990
S5: But in this episode, he's the first face we see.

310
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:56,540
S5: He's the last face. We see we see him go

311
00:14:56,540 --> 00:15:00,650
S5: from being quite grief stricken to taking the reins, seeing

312
00:15:00,650 --> 00:15:03,620
S5: the opportunity, playing the game, getting the support of all

313
00:15:03,620 --> 00:15:07,550
S5: the different board members to emerge as the leader here.

314
00:15:08,060 --> 00:15:10,550
S5: I kind of wasn't expecting that. I don't know whether

315
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:14,150
S5: I missed some things in the early episodes of this season.

316
00:15:14,210 --> 00:15:16,670
S5: I think it's just towards the end of episode three

317
00:15:16,670 --> 00:15:18,740
S5: where you start to see hints that he's ready to

318
00:15:18,740 --> 00:15:21,050
S5: get back into it, But there is a sense of, well,

319
00:15:21,050 --> 00:15:23,480
S5: he's doing so great because he's not playing this game.

320
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,810
S5: He's liberated almost from what's driven him. What what do

321
00:15:26,810 --> 00:15:28,340
S5: you think, Thomas? Should we have seen this coming?

322
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,670
S7: I suppose, like, you know, with the benefit of hindsight, yeah,

323
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:33,619
S7: we probably should have seen it coming. I think. I

324
00:15:33,620 --> 00:15:35,570
S7: think it's even Karl says to Kendall when he when

325
00:15:35,570 --> 00:15:37,250
S7: he starts to make the move to go back in

326
00:15:37,250 --> 00:15:39,080
S7: like are you sure you want this? Like you're doing

327
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,730
S7: so good. But I mean, ultimately, this show has been

328
00:15:43,730 --> 00:15:47,210
S7: about a set of siblings who are so have been

329
00:15:47,210 --> 00:15:50,119
S7: so manipulated by their father their entire lives. And I

330
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,270
S7: thought it was so interesting that, you know, we've seen one, Kendall,

331
00:15:53,270 --> 00:15:55,340
S7: all the way, like the first three episodes. We've seen

332
00:15:55,340 --> 00:15:57,320
S7: this like new version of Kendall even at the start

333
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:58,940
S7: of this episode, like, yeah, he looked sad and stuff,

334
00:15:58,940 --> 00:16:00,380
S7: but he was still seemed to be the same. And

335
00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:02,870
S7: then the minute that document came out and the minute

336
00:16:02,870 --> 00:16:04,760
S7: it was like, Your name's on it, it was like

337
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:06,590
S7: you could like, I mean, we all know Jeremy Strong

338
00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:08,900
S7: is like a crazy good actor, but like, you could

339
00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:11,600
S7: see his face changed. It was like all of that

340
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,520
S7: other stuff was gone. Like, it was just like, washed away.

341
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,890
S7: And he was suddenly back into, like, season one. Kendall

342
00:16:15,890 --> 00:16:18,410
S7: where it was like, This is my destiny. It was

343
00:16:18,410 --> 00:16:20,510
S7: supposed to be me. And like, even the way he

344
00:16:20,510 --> 00:16:22,850
S7: starts to interact with the siblings is different. You know,

345
00:16:22,850 --> 00:16:24,620
S7: they've all been kind of looking after each other and

346
00:16:24,620 --> 00:16:26,990
S7: it's all been very like gently, gently, which is unusual

347
00:16:26,990 --> 00:16:29,060
S7: for them. And then I think, you know, Shiv is

348
00:16:29,060 --> 00:16:32,030
S7: the first one to be very like on guard about

349
00:16:32,030 --> 00:16:34,400
S7: whether or not this document is, you know, underlined or

350
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,860
S7: is it crossed out or whatever. And he turns to

351
00:16:36,860 --> 00:16:38,390
S7: her and says like, Well, it sure as shit doesn't

352
00:16:38,390 --> 00:16:40,790
S7: say Shiv. That was like another moment where I'm like, Wow.

353
00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:43,190
S7: Kendall has like, finally got his sniff of destiny. And

354
00:16:43,190 --> 00:16:44,810
S7: he's like, He switched. Yeah.

355
00:16:44,810 --> 00:16:48,470
S6: Can I just say I'm not a medical professional, but

356
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:51,230
S6: from what I've from what I read about Brené Brown,

357
00:16:51,230 --> 00:16:54,590
S6: I reckon I don't think Kendall is ready for this.

358
00:16:54,590 --> 00:16:58,160
S6: Like I loved I mean, he's got an addictive personality.

359
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,880
S6: He killed a person. He's been unhinged. And I love

360
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,900
S6: that he's take on the grief. Like dealing with grief

361
00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:07,820
S6: was like I had a I had a phone call

362
00:17:07,820 --> 00:17:10,609
S6: with my therapist and it was like, yeah, my grief.

363
00:17:10,609 --> 00:17:13,850
S5: Guy, I've got a great grief. The best way to

364
00:17:13,850 --> 00:17:14,570
S5: solve a problem.

365
00:17:14,570 --> 00:17:17,780
S6: Yeah. And I think Kendall switched that you're talking about.

366
00:17:17,859 --> 00:17:23,050
S6: Is this like really dangerous trait in Kendall that, you

367
00:17:23,050 --> 00:17:25,090
S6: know Icarus, he's going to fly too close to the

368
00:17:25,090 --> 00:17:28,180
S6: sun as every time he does, and it's all going

369
00:17:28,180 --> 00:17:30,970
S6: to end in disaster. So I think Kendall needs to

370
00:17:30,970 --> 00:17:32,890
S6: I think Kendall just needs to work on Kendall for

371
00:17:32,890 --> 00:17:36,460
S6: a bit before he dives headfirst into, you know, ruining

372
00:17:36,460 --> 00:17:37,540
S6: his family again.

373
00:17:37,540 --> 00:17:39,520
S5: I think you're both kind of right to an extent,

374
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,139
S5: because I think that piece of paper, which I think

375
00:17:41,140 --> 00:17:43,060
S5: is worth talking about. So I think it's so funny

376
00:17:43,060 --> 00:17:46,060
S5: that the way this plays out is we see Carolina

377
00:17:46,060 --> 00:17:50,380
S5: get a phone call. We then see Carolina, get Frank.

378
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,340
S12: Frank, can I grab you for a second? Sure.

379
00:17:53,380 --> 00:17:55,870
S5: Yeah. We then see Frank get Hugo.

380
00:17:56,050 --> 00:18:00,880
S10: In my role as executor, I've had passed to me

381
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,280
S10: a rather worrying piece of paper.

382
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,139
S5: Then Jerry walks in.

383
00:18:05,470 --> 00:18:06,730
S3: Hey, what's up, boys?

384
00:18:06,730 --> 00:18:07,120
S13: Hi.

385
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,389
S5: No one wants to take control and make a call

386
00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:12,580
S5: on what to do with this piece of paper. That

387
00:18:12,580 --> 00:18:14,949
S5: isn't quite a will. It doesn't have legal standing, but

388
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:16,480
S5: it's obviously quite significant.

389
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:17,530
S2: So what are you thinking?

390
00:18:17,530 --> 00:18:20,200
S10: Well, I honestly didn't even want to start thinking until

391
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:20,830
S10: you were here.

392
00:18:20,980 --> 00:18:23,619
S5: They joke about wanting to throw it out the window,

393
00:18:23,619 --> 00:18:24,880
S5: flush it on the toilet. I think they all just

394
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:25,390
S5: freak out.

395
00:18:25,390 --> 00:18:29,500
S2: But what if your hand goes a little wobbly and

396
00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:32,500
S2: the draft takes it away and it gets flushed down

397
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:34,030
S2: a toilet by mistake?

398
00:18:34,030 --> 00:18:37,150
S5: I'm kidding. It speaks to their complete inability to make

399
00:18:37,150 --> 00:18:40,450
S5: decisions because they've never really been empowered by Logan to

400
00:18:40,450 --> 00:18:42,490
S5: do that. They can they can give advice and they

401
00:18:42,490 --> 00:18:45,400
S5: can facilitate and administrate, but they can't make the call

402
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:46,990
S5: and they all freak out. They get all the kids

403
00:18:46,990 --> 00:18:49,720
S5: in and something changes with Kendall there. And I think

404
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,550
S5: I agree with you, Mel. I think it's a regression.

405
00:18:51,550 --> 00:18:54,730
S5: He sees his name and he goes back to thinking, wow,

406
00:18:54,730 --> 00:18:57,070
S5: maybe my daddy did think I was great.

407
00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:01,479
S10: He was an old bastard and he loved you.

408
00:19:02,410 --> 00:19:03,070
UU: He loved you.

409
00:19:07,410 --> 00:19:08,100
S14: You think?

410
00:19:09,150 --> 00:19:09,899
S10: I think so.

411
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,470
S5: This proves he loves me, right? Like he thought I

412
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:18,450
S5: could do it. And Frank's like, Well, you did know that.

413
00:19:18,450 --> 00:19:19,919
S5: You did know that there was a time where you

414
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,550
S5: were being groomed. And then Roman reminds him you tried

415
00:19:23,550 --> 00:19:25,709
S5: to send him to jail 12 times. Like. Like a

416
00:19:25,710 --> 00:19:28,500
S5: lot has happened since the four years ago when your

417
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:31,169
S5: dad said, I think you should run this company. But

418
00:19:31,170 --> 00:19:33,180
S5: none of that. All of that has disappeared. And Kendall

419
00:19:33,180 --> 00:19:35,459
S5: is back in. My dad loved me. He thought I

420
00:19:35,460 --> 00:19:37,320
S5: was the right person to lead this company. I am

421
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,060
S5: the right guy to do it. And he can kick

422
00:19:39,060 --> 00:19:41,760
S5: into gear like and he does kick into gear. But

423
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,250
S5: whether or not that is sustainable or healthy for him,

424
00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:45,869
S5: I think is a very different question.

425
00:19:45,869 --> 00:19:48,150
S7: But one thing I was really curious about, and we

426
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:50,490
S7: do sometimes get this in succession, is like scenes that

427
00:19:50,490 --> 00:19:53,130
S7: possibly take place that we don't see. So like, you know,

428
00:19:53,130 --> 00:19:54,989
S7: when the gray beards, you know, like like you said,

429
00:19:54,990 --> 00:19:57,600
S7: there's a kind of chain of like events where they

430
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,389
S7: all get the document and discuss it. Like when I

431
00:20:00,390 --> 00:20:03,090
S7: was watching it, I was like, it feels like there

432
00:20:03,090 --> 00:20:05,159
S7: is a scene there that we don't see where the

433
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,159
S7: gray beards are. Like, let's definitely give this to the

434
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,400
S7: kids because they will just tear themselves apart. That that

435
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,680
S7: will take care of the kids problem for us, and

436
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,360
S7: then we can just figure it out in our own

437
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,760
S7: team because we know the minute we say like, Oh yeah,

438
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,129
S7: there's a piece of paper here that says possibly Kendall Like,

439
00:20:20,130 --> 00:20:22,619
S7: especially because it's Kendall, then that will just be like

440
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,680
S7: total infighting and then that like, opposition is gone.

441
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,270
S5: Yeah, I think that's a really good observation as well.

442
00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:30,510
S5: It's like those guys are not the, you know, they

443
00:20:30,510 --> 00:20:32,790
S5: don't have all the cards, but they are not idiots.

444
00:20:32,790 --> 00:20:34,980
S5: And I think you're right that it's an opportunity to,

445
00:20:34,980 --> 00:20:38,550
S5: from their perspective, to try and fracture that group, which

446
00:20:38,550 --> 00:20:41,459
S5: ultimately doesn't quite work. But Mel, I'm keen to get

447
00:20:41,460 --> 00:20:44,910
S5: your read on on how the other siblings reacted to this,

448
00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:48,149
S5: particularly Shiv, because I feel like while Kendall, I think

449
00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:50,790
S5: like I said, I agree that I don't think this

450
00:20:50,790 --> 00:20:53,880
S5: new version of him where he's just super high functioning

451
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:55,740
S5: and a bit ruthless is going to work out in

452
00:20:55,740 --> 00:20:57,840
S5: the long term. It does work out for him in

453
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,680
S5: this episode. While I think Shiv, it's almost the opposite.

454
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,380
S5: I feel like she is so adrift in this episode,

455
00:21:04,380 --> 00:21:07,379
S5: she can't really focus on the matters at hand. Kendall

456
00:21:07,380 --> 00:21:09,990
S5: keeps trying to talk to her and get her buy-in

457
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:14,490
S5: on these decisions. She's either distracted by the significant life

458
00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:17,700
S5: change going on or she's still kind of processing what

459
00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:20,730
S5: the Tom divorce is doing. But even when Kendall comes

460
00:21:20,730 --> 00:21:23,760
S5: back from having basically gotten the support of Stewie and

461
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,060
S5: Sandy for his elevation, he says, Hey, can we talk?

462
00:21:27,060 --> 00:21:29,310
S5: And she just wants to talk about the fact that

463
00:21:29,310 --> 00:21:32,520
S5: Connor has bought Logan's house. Like like what do you

464
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,800
S5: make of her in this in this episode and her

465
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,080
S5: inability to kind of get on the ball?

466
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,500
S6: Yeah, and there's that. That fall, I think, is particularly

467
00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:44,969
S6: interesting moment. Like she has always been this figure of

468
00:21:44,970 --> 00:21:50,340
S6: control and elegance and non emotion and non feeling. And

469
00:21:50,340 --> 00:21:52,470
S6: then she has this fall in the middle of the

470
00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:54,810
S6: lounge room and people try to help and pick her

471
00:21:54,810 --> 00:21:56,909
S6: up and she kind of picks herself up and pushes

472
00:21:56,910 --> 00:22:01,200
S6: everyone away. And I think that's really significant and marks

473
00:22:01,260 --> 00:22:05,580
S6: a transition in her character, which I think they're suggesting

474
00:22:05,580 --> 00:22:08,159
S6: is based on the bombshell that we get in the

475
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,610
S6: first kind of 30 seconds of of the episode. Do

476
00:22:11,609 --> 00:22:13,020
S6: you want to chat about that?

477
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:15,869
S5: Yeah, Let's let's talk about it because I'm really interested

478
00:22:15,869 --> 00:22:18,990
S5: to get both your perspectives on We know that Sarah Snook,

479
00:22:18,990 --> 00:22:21,990
S5: who plays Shavon, is pregnant. She was pregnant during the

480
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:24,629
S5: filming of this. And there was part of me that wondered, well,

481
00:22:24,630 --> 00:22:26,640
S5: is this just their way to ride in something that

482
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,189
S5: is going to be too hard to avoid? And what

483
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:30,330
S5: does that mean for this show?

484
00:22:30,330 --> 00:22:32,460
S7: I thought that, too. I didn't I don't love this

485
00:22:32,460 --> 00:22:36,330
S7: storyline like when it happened in the first like few scenes,

486
00:22:36,330 --> 00:22:38,609
S7: I was like, Oh. And then I did think, Oh,

487
00:22:38,609 --> 00:22:40,860
S7: is it just like them kind of having to work

488
00:22:40,859 --> 00:22:42,990
S7: around real life because she was going to look pregnant

489
00:22:42,990 --> 00:22:46,350
S7: and it became like too much of an issue? Yeah,

490
00:22:46,350 --> 00:22:48,510
S7: it's a strange one. Like it turns out, after all,

491
00:22:48,510 --> 00:22:50,400
S7: that Tom was the one eating the walnuts or whatever

492
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,170
S7: it was from last season. He's the one with the.

493
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:53,760
S5: The macaroon man.

494
00:22:53,790 --> 00:22:55,889
S7: Yeah, the macaroon presuming it. Tom is the father. I

495
00:22:55,890 --> 00:22:57,869
S7: don't know. Like, is there a question about whether or

496
00:22:57,869 --> 00:22:58,320
S7: not that's what.

497
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,899
S6: We need to do the math. Like, because it's at

498
00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:02,730
S6: least eight, eight weeks.

499
00:23:02,730 --> 00:23:04,949
S7: Yeah. But then the doctor mentions like looking in the

500
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:07,560
S7: 20 week scan. I mean, let's presume Tom is the father.

501
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,020
S6: But can I just say I was like shocked by

502
00:23:10,020 --> 00:23:13,740
S6: how fast that bombshell happened. Like, I was barely you know,

503
00:23:13,740 --> 00:23:16,379
S6: I was still adjusting my volume. I was still getting

504
00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:17,550
S6: cozy on the couch.

505
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,080
S15: Like into the show. Yeah.

506
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,330
S6: And like, I barely turned it on. And then it

507
00:23:21,330 --> 00:23:23,100
S6: was like, wham, here we go.

508
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:24,869
S5: Yeah. No, I agree. It happened so quickly. I was

509
00:23:24,869 --> 00:23:28,139
S5: watching with Ruby, a brilliant producer, and they're having the

510
00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:30,270
S5: chat and I'm like, This feels like a chat about

511
00:23:30,270 --> 00:23:32,369
S5: her being pregnant. Is that is that what's happening? This

512
00:23:32,430 --> 00:23:34,560
S5: is happening very, very quickly and I didn't expect it.

513
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,380
S5: And I'm kind of with Thomas. I sort of feel like, look,

514
00:23:37,380 --> 00:23:39,810
S5: you've got to deal with reality. And so, you know,

515
00:23:39,810 --> 00:23:42,990
S5: good on the writers for for incorporating that. And, you know,

516
00:23:42,990 --> 00:23:45,389
S5: I feel like in a different era and television women

517
00:23:45,390 --> 00:23:47,909
S5: were told to fuck off basically once they reach a

518
00:23:47,910 --> 00:23:50,280
S5: certain point of their life. But also it just doesn't

519
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,159
S5: feel like this was part of the story where it

520
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,200
S5: was going. I don't think Jesse Armstrong was like, I

521
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,030
S5: think it'd be great to explore in the last six

522
00:23:57,030 --> 00:24:01,110
S5: episodes how she becoming pregnant would change things. It feels

523
00:24:01,109 --> 00:24:03,630
S5: a bit much, but do you think that they are

524
00:24:03,630 --> 00:24:05,699
S5: weaving it in? Well, it seemed to you seem to

525
00:24:05,700 --> 00:24:08,490
S5: be suggesting that they're sort of finding a way to

526
00:24:08,490 --> 00:24:12,270
S5: have that feature into her slow unraveling in this episode.

527
00:24:12,270 --> 00:24:15,229
S6: I'm really interested. To say what they do with Shiv

528
00:24:15,230 --> 00:24:18,830
S6: because the kind of power she she has and she

529
00:24:18,830 --> 00:24:22,550
S6: displays is that kind of real, like second wave, 70s

530
00:24:22,550 --> 00:24:27,320
S6: 80s feminism. She kind of adopts the kind of classic

531
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,470
S6: and in quotation kind of masculine tropes in the workplace.

532
00:24:30,470 --> 00:24:35,450
S6: She's aggressive, she's unfeeling, she's unapologetic. She wears these kind of,

533
00:24:35,630 --> 00:24:38,359
S6: you know, very suited looks as opposed to the different

534
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,149
S6: types of feminine power we see in the show. So

535
00:24:41,150 --> 00:24:45,619
S6: I am interested in how they're going to make maternity

536
00:24:45,619 --> 00:24:48,590
S6: change her and how they're going to make it change,

537
00:24:48,590 --> 00:24:53,630
S6: how other people treat her and how they navigate the

538
00:24:53,630 --> 00:24:56,689
S6: reality of that situation. I think it's a tricky one.

539
00:24:56,690 --> 00:24:56,960
S6: It's going to.

540
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,030
S7: Become like a full time mummy blogger. Yeah, I know.

541
00:24:59,210 --> 00:25:00,700
S7: Like really unexpected. Like I think.

542
00:25:00,980 --> 00:25:03,080
S6: I think I would be so disappointed if she all

543
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,909
S6: of a sudden became like kind.

544
00:25:05,090 --> 00:25:07,100
S7: But then I wonder like because that was a really

545
00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:09,350
S7: weird and like kind of sad scene with her and

546
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:11,900
S7: Tom on the, on the stairs where they have that

547
00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:15,050
S7: chat and he's like, super. It's actually pretty heartbreaking. He's

548
00:25:15,050 --> 00:25:17,240
S7: like talking about when they first met and it was

549
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,520
S7: in Paris and like, you were wearing this dress and

550
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,390
S7: I stroked your arm and, and, yeah, like a silk dress. And,

551
00:25:23,390 --> 00:25:26,210
S7: and she's kind of like, just gives him nothing. And

552
00:25:26,210 --> 00:25:28,429
S7: then I think they talk about, you know, Logan's not

553
00:25:28,430 --> 00:25:29,900
S7: going to be able to, like, look after his grandkids

554
00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:31,760
S7: or whatever. And then she says to him, oh well

555
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,670
S7: that's shot now anyway. And it's like, I wonder, are they,

556
00:25:34,670 --> 00:25:34,910
S7: are they.

557
00:25:34,910 --> 00:25:38,360
S5: Which is clearly a reference to her potential kid. Right? Yeah.

558
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,699
S7: And so then and then you have the fall and

559
00:25:40,700 --> 00:25:42,440
S7: so that I'm like, oh, I don't know, maybe like

560
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,260
S7: maybe is she going to like, lose the baby? And

561
00:25:45,260 --> 00:25:47,000
S7: it was like this weird glimpse into her like a

562
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,430
S7: kind of sliding doors moment. Are we supposed to believe that?

563
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:51,890
S7: Like between her saying that and then the fall, that

564
00:25:51,890 --> 00:25:53,389
S7: perhaps this was just like a fleeting thing?

565
00:25:53,390 --> 00:25:55,700
S5: Yeah. The last thing I think I want to say

566
00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:59,630
S5: about shivs, pregnancy or, you know, what she might be

567
00:25:59,630 --> 00:26:02,300
S5: thinking about is I think it's interesting that we've heard

568
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:04,489
S5: her talk about her own mother a few times in

569
00:26:04,490 --> 00:26:08,540
S5: the season so far, including in the last episode. She says, Oh,

570
00:26:08,540 --> 00:26:10,369
S5: I kind of wished it was mum who had died

571
00:26:10,369 --> 00:26:12,980
S5: instead of instead of Logan. And that's a reminder that

572
00:26:12,980 --> 00:26:16,310
S5: she's an extremely toxic relationship with her own mother. And

573
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:19,910
S5: that's her only figure, her only role model for what

574
00:26:19,910 --> 00:26:22,669
S5: a mum looks like. And I think she probably is

575
00:26:22,670 --> 00:26:26,479
S5: also thinking about fucking hell. Like I've seen the kinds

576
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,600
S5: of kids my parents create. Do I want to be

577
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,150
S5: my mum? Am I going to be my mum? And

578
00:26:32,150 --> 00:26:34,730
S5: I wonder whether that will be something that she has

579
00:26:34,730 --> 00:26:36,950
S5: to grapple with a bit more explicitly? I just I

580
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:39,320
S5: think the show was too smart to have her talk

581
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,170
S5: explicitly about being raised by her mum and then throw

582
00:26:42,170 --> 00:26:43,760
S5: in the fact that she's potentially about to become a

583
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,639
S5: mum and not have that mean something as the show

584
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,580
S5: progresses before we sort of finish out a deep dive

585
00:26:49,580 --> 00:26:52,070
S5: on this app, I want to talk about the final

586
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:54,680
S5: bit of tension, right? Which is this moment where after

587
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,179
S5: they've been coronated, Roman and Kendall have this meeting with

588
00:26:59,180 --> 00:27:02,359
S5: Hugo and Karolina, who are sort of leading the the

589
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,880
S5: PR blitz on this. And they present them two options.

590
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,250
S5: They say, either we can praise your dad, we can

591
00:27:07,250 --> 00:27:09,679
S5: say he's great, and you guys are stepping up to

592
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,060
S5: basically fill in his shoes or because to be honest,

593
00:27:14,060 --> 00:27:16,669
S5: people think you guys suck at your jobs. We can

594
00:27:16,670 --> 00:27:19,129
S5: salt the earth. We can say that Logan did a

595
00:27:19,130 --> 00:27:22,430
S5: terrible job and he was incompetent. And it's really you

596
00:27:22,430 --> 00:27:25,400
S5: guys who are pulling the strings the whole time. Roman

597
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,160
S5: is not into that. Kendall seems like he's not into it,

598
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,100
S5: but at the end of the episode, he basically blackmails

599
00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:33,760
S5: Hugo using that bit of intel that you mentioned earlier, Mel,

600
00:27:33,770 --> 00:27:37,850
S5: about the fact that Hugo leaked the death of Logan

601
00:27:37,850 --> 00:27:40,700
S5: to his daughter, Juliet, who did some insider trading. And

602
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:43,550
S5: he says, Hugo, you're going to tell everyone that my

603
00:27:43,550 --> 00:27:45,650
S5: dad was useless and you're going to tell everyone else

604
00:27:45,650 --> 00:27:48,439
S5: pulling the strings because that's what dad would do. And

605
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,900
S5: I think, like, he's right. I think that's exactly right.

606
00:27:50,900 --> 00:27:54,440
S5: And I think it is strategically the right call. But

607
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,400
S5: does it at the same time suggest that perhaps Kendall's

608
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,090
S5: ascended the throne, but in doing so, he's become possibly

609
00:28:02,090 --> 00:28:05,869
S5: the worst version of himself that we've seen so far?

610
00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:07,429
S7: Yeah, I think so. But that's kind of like what

611
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:08,900
S7: you have to do if you want to be the

612
00:28:08,900 --> 00:28:11,810
S7: CEO of this, like, terrifying media conglomerate, isn't it? And

613
00:28:11,810 --> 00:28:14,359
S7: I think like, you know, we we have seen Kendall

614
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,630
S7: learned his lesson like that before. Like, again, going back

615
00:28:17,630 --> 00:28:19,969
S7: to the very first episode, I think we've mentioned on

616
00:28:19,970 --> 00:28:23,540
S7: the pod before, he's meant to be closing that Volta deal.

617
00:28:23,540 --> 00:28:26,420
S7: And instead he goes to Logan's 80th birthday. And Logan's like,

618
00:28:26,420 --> 00:28:28,460
S7: unimpressed that he goes to the birthday instead of going

619
00:28:28,460 --> 00:28:30,709
S7: to close the deal. So, like, Kendall has had a

620
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:34,070
S7: lifetime of like, head noise about not being enough of

621
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:37,040
S7: a killer, enough of the one who has the drive

622
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,920
S7: to do it. So now he's like, Yeah, maybe in

623
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,260
S7: the first instance. Or when Roman's there, he's like, Oh yeah, no,

624
00:28:42,260 --> 00:28:44,330
S7: we should definitely not do that. Like, Dad's body's still warm.

625
00:28:44,330 --> 00:28:47,060
S7: That's not like, shit. Candy's reputation. And then straight away

626
00:28:47,060 --> 00:28:48,920
S7: he's like, No, this is exactly what Logan would do.

627
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:50,690
S7: We're going to bury him in the press, say he

628
00:28:50,690 --> 00:28:53,690
S7: was incompetent. And yeah, I think it's completely right. It's

629
00:28:53,690 --> 00:28:56,390
S7: the right move, and it's what Logan would do. It's

630
00:28:56,390 --> 00:29:01,850
S7: more about like, will Roman have the capacity to be like, Oh, yeah,

631
00:29:01,850 --> 00:29:03,740
S7: you're right. Kendall Because like, as if that's a conversation

632
00:29:03,740 --> 00:29:05,020
S7: that ever happens between them. Yeah.

633
00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:08,870
S6: I think this is classic impulsive. Kendall Why do you.

634
00:29:08,870 --> 00:29:09,560
S7: Hate Kendall so.

635
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,110
S6: Much? This is how you end up on ice killing

636
00:29:12,110 --> 00:29:18,260
S6: someone after a. Right now. I think that Kendall is

637
00:29:18,260 --> 00:29:24,440
S6: so self deluded. I think he thinks the means justifies

638
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,620
S6: the end. And I actually think for him, the end

639
00:29:27,620 --> 00:29:29,270
S6: and we've seen it all through. He thinks he's kind

640
00:29:29,270 --> 00:29:31,580
S6: of like a cool dude. He raps, he like is

641
00:29:31,580 --> 00:29:35,390
S6: in with the startups. He like he does pretensions that

642
00:29:35,390 --> 00:29:38,180
S6: he's going to be good for the world and that

643
00:29:38,180 --> 00:29:41,960
S6: he matters in the world. So I think ultimately Kendall

644
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,840
S6: still wants to go in that direction. I reckon Kendall's

645
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,710
S6: at heart. He thinks he's the 100 guy and that's

646
00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:52,370
S6: what he wants to do. And he says in the end,

647
00:29:52,370 --> 00:29:55,310
S6: to get these positive goals that I think are positive

648
00:29:55,310 --> 00:29:57,590
S6: for the world, I'm going to do these other things,

649
00:29:57,590 --> 00:30:00,770
S6: these terrible, terrible things. Things, Yeah. To get there and

650
00:30:00,770 --> 00:30:01,880
S6: to make my mark.

651
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,010
S5: Yeah. And the ultimate irony is that what they're leaking,

652
00:30:04,010 --> 00:30:06,320
S5: this idea that Kendall was pulling the strings all along

653
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,200
S5: is so not true. Like he we've discussed this this

654
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,410
S5: entire season that every idea that kids have had is terrible.

655
00:30:12,410 --> 00:30:16,070
S5: Like Logan had smart ideas. He was doing the right thing.

656
00:30:16,070 --> 00:30:18,350
S5: These deals are the right thing. And so Kendall can

657
00:30:18,350 --> 00:30:20,270
S5: take credit for it. But when he has to actually

658
00:30:20,270 --> 00:30:23,390
S5: make those calls, I think it'll be exposed pretty quickly.

659
00:30:23,390 --> 00:30:30,950
S5: How hollow he is. Let's talk about our favorite lines

660
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:34,220
S5: from this episode. There was one that stood out to me, Mel,

661
00:30:34,220 --> 00:30:35,690
S5: you picked it. I'm going to let you because it's

662
00:30:35,690 --> 00:30:38,930
S5: your first episode on this pod. Walk us through your

663
00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:39,700
S5: favorite line.

664
00:30:39,710 --> 00:30:42,560
S6: Okay. So this is when they're all in the China room.

665
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,670
S6: They're all Wargaming. And Tom has little plate. He's eating

666
00:30:46,670 --> 00:30:49,400
S6: a fish taco, which actually the tom that we have

667
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,010
S6: at our at our table right now doesn't mind a

668
00:30:52,010 --> 00:30:55,340
S6: bit of fisheries desk which I find quite, quite offensive.

669
00:30:55,340 --> 00:30:58,640
S6: But anyway, Jerry calls him out on it and says, Oh, you're.

670
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,160
S3: Sick with cream. You might want to put down that

671
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,469
S3: fish taco. You're getting your melancholy everywhere.

672
00:31:03,470 --> 00:31:05,750
S6: Very funny. And I just loved it because I thought

673
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:09,440
S6: it summed up the entire episode so well. It was

674
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:14,090
S6: everyone was self-consciously performing this grief to each other. And

675
00:31:14,270 --> 00:31:16,400
S6: while they're trying to get the best deals from themselves.

676
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,320
S7: Yeah, there's a big competition of like, who's the saddest

677
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,910
S7: about Logan? Like, no one's really sad except the kids, maybe.

678
00:31:20,930 --> 00:31:21,650
S16: And like, even on.

679
00:31:21,650 --> 00:31:25,400
S6: Like a sentence level, so many of the sentences were

680
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,490
S6: like broken into two parts where the first was a

681
00:31:28,490 --> 00:31:31,610
S6: show of grief, and the second was what they wanted.

682
00:31:31,610 --> 00:31:34,400
S6: Like I think Greg said something like, I'm so sad,

683
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,680
S6: You know, there's a board meeting in an hour. And

684
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,960
S6: there was so much of that going on, like where

685
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,950
S6: these sentences are split. And yeah, that that kind of

686
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:44,900
S6: summed it up to me, the whole sentiment.

687
00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:46,940
S5: Yeah, it was, it was my standard as well, particularly

688
00:31:46,940 --> 00:31:49,100
S5: cause you get to see Tom eat the fish taco

689
00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:52,870
S5: like midway through that whole interaction, which is hilarious. My,

690
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,250
S5: my runner up was we say this at the start,

691
00:31:55,250 --> 00:31:56,840
S5: we don't really know what the context is when we

692
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,229
S5: find it out. It's so funny. When Kendall is walking

693
00:32:00,230 --> 00:32:03,470
S5: into Logan's apartment, we just see Hugo on the phone saying.

694
00:32:03,710 --> 00:32:06,650
S17: You know, you fuck me, you fuck me right in

695
00:32:06,650 --> 00:32:10,310
S17: the ass here. What you've done, Juliet, is you've taken

696
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:12,770
S17: a strap on and you fucked me right in the ass. Yeah.

697
00:32:13,380 --> 00:32:16,830
S5: Call me. You're fucking me. You're wearing a strap on

698
00:32:16,830 --> 00:32:18,690
S5: and you're fucking me in the arse, which is sort

699
00:32:18,690 --> 00:32:19,950
S5: of funny. We don't really know. But then we find

700
00:32:19,950 --> 00:32:21,930
S5: out he's talking to his daughter and he's saying that

701
00:32:21,930 --> 00:32:24,900
S5: to his daughter after she's got him in strife for

702
00:32:24,900 --> 00:32:29,040
S5: selling off Waystar stock. It's so funny. Thomas, what have

703
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:29,430
S5: you got?

704
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,830
S7: Yeah, I thought it was. It was an episode where

705
00:32:31,830 --> 00:32:34,470
S7: there are not super obvious, like, funny lines to me.

706
00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:36,060
S7: So like, shout out to the team at no context

707
00:32:36,060 --> 00:32:38,190
S7: succession for having to pull out some.

708
00:32:38,430 --> 00:32:39,540
S5: This week's going to be a tricky one.

709
00:32:39,540 --> 00:32:41,100
S6: Yeah. You hated this episode.

710
00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:42,720
S7: No, I didn't. I didn't. I just. I just didn't

711
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,000
S7: think it was succession at its best. But that being said,

712
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,010
S7: I thought it was very funny when the kids were

713
00:32:47,010 --> 00:32:49,320
S7: sitting together and someone brings in a stack of papers

714
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,780
S7: and is like, Oh, the obits are in and, you know,

715
00:32:51,780 --> 00:32:54,300
S7: she makes a joke, Oh, it's five star reviews. And

716
00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:55,870
S7: I mean, I think we spoke about this kind of

717
00:32:55,890 --> 00:32:58,680
S7: last week. The obit is a funny it's a funny

718
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,200
S7: thing that happens in the world. And when someone like

719
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,620
S7: a Logan Roy dies, you have to kind of you

720
00:33:04,620 --> 00:33:07,350
S7: can't just say this person was possibly terrible. So there's

721
00:33:07,350 --> 00:33:09,390
S7: a lot of spend involved. And I love that the

722
00:33:09,390 --> 00:33:12,150
S7: way the kids read the obit and then interpret the spin.

723
00:33:12,150 --> 00:33:13,830
S7: So I think Shiv says.

724
00:33:13,830 --> 00:33:15,300
S18: A complicated man.

725
00:33:16,170 --> 00:33:17,670
S4: Through phones at stuff.

726
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,740
S7: He was a man of his own era. She's like

727
00:33:19,740 --> 00:33:21,750
S7: reading the obit. And then Kendall says.

728
00:33:21,900 --> 00:33:26,070
S4: Again, racist, also relaxed about sexual assault.

729
00:33:26,370 --> 00:33:31,530
S19: Business genius never paid a penny in US tax. Oh boom.

730
00:33:31,980 --> 00:33:34,080
S7: I just thought that that was amazing the way those

731
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,000
S7: beats played off each other because, you know, they know

732
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,610
S7: exactly what their dad was and they're having to then, like,

733
00:33:38,610 --> 00:33:42,330
S7: read this weird, like, public profile of him that is

734
00:33:42,330 --> 00:33:44,460
S7: so far from the man that they knew and were

735
00:33:44,460 --> 00:33:47,940
S7: raised by. And I think even at 11. she says, Oh, dad,

736
00:33:47,940 --> 00:33:50,010
S7: sounds like a lovely guy. I'd love to meet this dad.

737
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:51,600
S7: So I just thought that was very funny.

738
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,550
S5: Yeah, it came out. I feel like it reminded me

739
00:33:53,550 --> 00:33:57,540
S5: of when when Cardinal George Pell died in different sections

740
00:33:57,540 --> 00:33:59,670
S5: of the media, sort of covered his death and had

741
00:33:59,670 --> 00:34:03,420
S5: different kinds of obituaries, and many of them neglected, you know,

742
00:34:03,420 --> 00:34:06,030
S5: the most serious allegations against him. And so there's this

743
00:34:06,030 --> 00:34:09,300
S5: desire to overlook the bad stuff because people say in

744
00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:11,460
S5: death he should just say good things. But if this is,

745
00:34:11,460 --> 00:34:13,620
S5: in fact, the last thing you say about someone, it

746
00:34:13,620 --> 00:34:16,529
S5: should be a pretty honest, warts and all. Take on them.

747
00:34:21,230 --> 00:34:25,219
S5: Let's do our favorite segment, Fun Fact Corner. We've got

748
00:34:25,219 --> 00:34:31,550
S5: two this time, the most recent edition of Vanity Fair.

749
00:34:31,550 --> 00:34:35,810
S5: The cover story is a deep dive on Rupert Murdoch,

750
00:34:35,810 --> 00:34:37,640
S5: his family, what he's been up to for the last

751
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,610
S5: few years, written by Gabrielle Sherman, could not recommend reading

752
00:34:40,610 --> 00:34:43,340
S5: this entire piece from start to finish. More. It is

753
00:34:43,340 --> 00:34:47,480
S5: a fantastic read and the amount of parallels to succession

754
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,660
S5: are so fascinating. But there are actually two very specific

755
00:34:50,660 --> 00:34:54,470
S5: things that relate to the creation of this show. So

756
00:34:54,469 --> 00:34:58,040
S5: the first is that we get this little tidbit that

757
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:03,140
S5: Lachlan Murdoch, Rupert sort of preferred son who is in

758
00:35:03,140 --> 00:35:07,520
S5: line to inherit the empire, thinks that James Murdoch, the

759
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,190
S5: son that's on the outer, is leaking real life family

760
00:35:10,190 --> 00:35:14,390
S5: plotlines to the writers of succession as they make this show,

761
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:18,739
S5: which is incredible, life imitating art, imitating life imitating art.

762
00:35:18,739 --> 00:35:21,890
S5: But I think far and away the best one is

763
00:35:21,890 --> 00:35:26,150
S5: when Rupert Murdoch divorced Jerry Hall a few years ago,

764
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:29,930
S5: apparently in her divorce agreement, is a clause that says

765
00:35:29,930 --> 00:35:34,550
S5: she is prohibited from speaking to the writers of succession. Thomas,

766
00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:37,730
S5: do you think she's prohibited specifically from like Jesse Armstrong,

767
00:35:37,730 --> 00:35:38,779
S5: or is it or is it is it a more

768
00:35:38,780 --> 00:35:41,630
S5: general clause? It seems like the fact that Murdoch is

769
00:35:41,630 --> 00:35:44,390
S5: so worried about this show is pretty fascinating.

770
00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:46,700
S7: Yeah, I just love to think of Rupert Murdoch like

771
00:35:46,700 --> 00:35:50,150
S7: sitting up at night Logan style, watching succession, just like

772
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:54,980
S7: absolutely fuming, firing off emails to people. Also in that article,

773
00:35:54,980 --> 00:35:57,140
S7: which like I totally agree, it's a must read if

774
00:35:57,140 --> 00:36:01,339
S7: you have any like even curiosity about succession. He divorced

775
00:36:01,340 --> 00:36:04,069
S7: her via email, so he sent her an email was

776
00:36:04,070 --> 00:36:07,070
S7: like just letting you know that the dissolution of this

777
00:36:07,070 --> 00:36:09,500
S7: marriage and like my New York lawyers will contact you

778
00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:12,080
S7: according to the Vanity Fair article, of course. Yes. So

779
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,160
S7: it is very interesting. And yeah, obviously succession has got

780
00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:18,319
S7: their living rent free in Rupert's head.

781
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,160
S6: So no, I'm starting to now think about the intimate

782
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,489
S6: phone calls that Marcia hints that she kept having with Logan.

783
00:36:25,489 --> 00:36:28,130
S7: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Rupert's got game. We know that he

784
00:36:28,130 --> 00:36:31,160
S7: took he took Jerry Hall to Hamilton on their first date. So,

785
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:32,660
S7: you know, the guy knows what's up.

786
00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:36,049
S5: Speaking of phone calls, Thomas, you've got another fun fact.

787
00:36:36,050 --> 00:36:39,649
S5: One of my favorite. One of Thomas's absolutely insane, fun

788
00:36:39,650 --> 00:36:41,480
S5: facts laid on us. Yeah, it's good to.

789
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,050
S7: Be back on Fun Fact Corner. This is a bit

790
00:36:45,050 --> 00:36:47,960
S7: of a theory that's doing rounds on the Internet. Essentially,

791
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,540
S7: it boils down to this. So in going back to

792
00:36:50,540 --> 00:36:51,650
S7: episode three.

793
00:36:52,219 --> 00:36:54,020
S6: Is this serial? Am I? Yeah.

794
00:36:54,380 --> 00:36:54,890
S20: That's right.

795
00:36:55,070 --> 00:36:57,560
S7: New podcast. And I'm Sarah Koenig. No. So going back

796
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:02,300
S7: to episode three, essentially a few years ago, Rian Johnson,

797
00:37:02,300 --> 00:37:05,750
S7: who we all know from the Glass Onion films, he

798
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:08,180
S7: told Vanity Fair in an interview like When you make

799
00:37:08,180 --> 00:37:11,629
S7: a film and a character is bad or doing something bad,

800
00:37:11,630 --> 00:37:14,000
S7: Apple will not give you permission for them to use

801
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,339
S7: an iPhone. And he just mentioned it in passing as

802
00:37:16,340 --> 00:37:18,350
S7: a strange kind of like inside a bit of information

803
00:37:18,350 --> 00:37:19,430
S7: about Hollywood.

804
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,370
S8: So as many of us know, Rian Johnson spilled the

805
00:37:22,370 --> 00:37:24,950
S8: beans a few years ago and said Apple won't let

806
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:26,870
S8: bad guys have iPhones on camera.

807
00:37:29,450 --> 00:37:32,029
S7: So Tiktokers, as they do have gone deep on this.

808
00:37:32,030 --> 00:37:34,970
S7: And notice that back in 2020, one of all the

809
00:37:34,969 --> 00:37:38,450
S7: characters on the show, only Kendall, Shiv, Greg and Connor

810
00:37:38,450 --> 00:37:39,500
S7: had iPhones.

811
00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:42,470
S8: I'm an avid watcher of succession, so naturally I had

812
00:37:42,469 --> 00:37:48,080
S8: to apply that theory. Logan. Roy No iPhone. Tom No iPhone.

813
00:37:48,350 --> 00:37:51,859
S7: While Logan, Jerry, Tom and Roman did not because they

814
00:37:51,860 --> 00:37:53,360
S7: were kind of bad characters.

815
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,660
S8: We want to know who does have an iPhone. Kendall

816
00:37:56,660 --> 00:37:57,440
S8: and Shiv.

817
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,010
S7: Now, in episode three, we learnt that Roman had an

818
00:38:01,010 --> 00:38:05,299
S7: iPhone and so did Kendall, Greg, Shiv. They were all

819
00:38:05,300 --> 00:38:08,810
S7: using iPhones. However, Tom, who took the call on the plane,

820
00:38:08,810 --> 00:38:10,370
S7: was using an Android.

821
00:38:10,460 --> 00:38:13,430
S8: What does this mean? I've looked at all the data.

822
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,779
S7: Now the theory is that Android users have not been

823
00:38:17,780 --> 00:38:20,240
S7: given permission by Apple to use the phone because they're bad.

824
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,310
S7: Are they going to reflect poorly on the brand? So

825
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:24,350
S7: so the theory goes that Tom is going to be

826
00:38:24,350 --> 00:38:27,470
S7: the one to break bad because he's using an Android

827
00:38:27,469 --> 00:38:30,410
S7: in the season. The only other person we know that's

828
00:38:30,410 --> 00:38:35,120
S7: using an Android in this season so far. Jerry So

829
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,569
S7: the theory is that Tom and Jerry with their stupid

830
00:38:38,570 --> 00:38:41,420
S7: Android phones are going to break bad and take over

831
00:38:41,420 --> 00:38:43,910
S7: this season. And this is coming from like the deepest,

832
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:46,520
S7: darkest corners of the Internet. So, you know, it's trustworthy.

833
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,450
S5: I can't believe I'm paying you to spend your days

834
00:38:52,450 --> 00:38:54,520
S5: reading these insane theories.

835
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,790
S7: Mate, I reckon this one's going to come true. I've

836
00:38:57,790 --> 00:39:00,430
S7: also got a few more location based fun facts, if

837
00:39:00,430 --> 00:39:01,960
S7: you like. But look.

838
00:39:02,230 --> 00:39:04,190
S5: The whole episode was in one location.

839
00:39:04,210 --> 00:39:06,670
S7: It's one to watch. There could be something in it.

840
00:39:06,670 --> 00:39:09,880
S7: The Apple brand theory. Let's watch this space.

841
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,000
S6: Do you think maybe Tom and Jerry are orchestrating a

842
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,610
S6: deal with Google within the show?

843
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:16,810
S7: That would be very miss.

844
00:39:16,989 --> 00:39:19,960
S5: Yeah, that's why they're getting they're getting cut price Android phones.

845
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:21,080
S5: But there was also it could just be you know

846
00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:24,940
S5: they both work at ATN right the company maybe there's

847
00:39:24,940 --> 00:39:27,910
S5: an overall deal there for them to get the Android

848
00:39:27,910 --> 00:39:30,069
S5: phones whereas the others have to buy their own phone

849
00:39:30,070 --> 00:39:31,180
S5: and they're like, Well, if I've got to buy my

850
00:39:31,180 --> 00:39:33,110
S5: own phone, I might as well get an iPhone.

851
00:39:33,130 --> 00:39:35,049
S7: No, but but Greg also works at ITN. He has

852
00:39:35,050 --> 00:39:36,550
S7: an iPhone. The one last thing I want to say

853
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:39,969
S7: about this, this phone fun fact corner is that there

854
00:39:39,969 --> 00:39:42,190
S7: was lots of like lot of people asking, oh, why

855
00:39:42,190 --> 00:39:44,950
S7: did Tom just not FaceTime them on the plane so

856
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:46,870
S7: they could at least see Logan? And of course, he's

857
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:52,630
S7: got a fucking android. Like I've cracked it. I've solved succession. Anyway,

858
00:39:52,630 --> 00:39:53,110
S7: thanks for having me.

859
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,810
S5: That was all worth it for that. Thank you. That's

860
00:39:55,810 --> 00:39:56,770
S5: a great reveal.

861
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,859
S6: Because now I'm thinking, like, maybe Gerry's quite organized, so

862
00:39:59,860 --> 00:40:03,790
S6: maybe she, like, just, like, sinking her Google suite. Also, you.

863
00:40:03,790 --> 00:40:06,489
S7: Know, Jerry's got that big font on the phone. She's like,

864
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:10,960
S7: she's doing the big zoom in. Anyway, moving on with

865
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,040
S7: a one finger.

866
00:40:12,250 --> 00:40:16,750
S5: Um, let's go into to Jerry. Watch. I think. I

867
00:40:16,750 --> 00:40:20,680
S5: think Jerry's role in this episode was a real reminder that, like,

868
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:24,489
S5: competence doesn't really count for anything in this world. She's

869
00:40:24,489 --> 00:40:28,000
S5: been nothing but a pretty effective CEO. She's there reminded

870
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,850
S5: us a few times the fact she navigated the Department

871
00:40:30,850 --> 00:40:35,080
S5: of Justice investigation into the heinous crimes committed by this company,

872
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,330
S5: and she managed to sort of pull all of that off.

873
00:40:37,330 --> 00:40:41,620
S5: She managed to survive literally being fired. Last episode by

874
00:40:41,620 --> 00:40:44,710
S5: Bye Roman, who was instructed by his dad. But ultimately

875
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:48,130
S5: she she like and support in this hilarious kitchenette scene

876
00:40:48,130 --> 00:40:51,250
S5: where everyone's trying to count the numbers. She's just got Karolina,

877
00:40:51,250 --> 00:40:54,880
S5: who's their PR person. She doesn't have a broad base

878
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,029
S5: of people willing to willing to vouch for her. Anything

879
00:40:58,030 --> 00:41:00,460
S5: you guys want to say about Jerry from this episode?

880
00:41:00,460 --> 00:41:02,979
S6: I feel like she's the cat with nine lives, isn't she?

881
00:41:02,980 --> 00:41:05,440
S6: She just somehow manages to hang. That's a good way

882
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,110
S6: of putting it, and I really enjoyed that. They kind

883
00:41:08,110 --> 00:41:12,460
S6: of hinted that, you know, you were actually fired last episode.

884
00:41:12,460 --> 00:41:15,009
S6: And she I loved the quip where she was like,

885
00:41:15,010 --> 00:41:17,740
S6: I don't think there's anything on paper to that effect.

886
00:41:17,739 --> 00:41:20,410
S6: So the exact opposite of what's going on with Kendall

887
00:41:20,410 --> 00:41:22,960
S6: is also saving saving her role.

888
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:27,160
S7: Yeah, it's a funny one. Like I thought, Jerry, ironically,

889
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,020
S7: has probably had the most to do in this episode,

890
00:41:29,020 --> 00:41:31,529
S7: but we got the least from her. Like, you know,

891
00:41:31,540 --> 00:41:34,540
S7: she said, Oh, I shepherded cultural change, but I didn't

892
00:41:34,540 --> 00:41:37,450
S7: think she she was like a force to be reckoned with.

893
00:41:37,450 --> 00:41:40,240
S7: And it kind of speaks to really a lack of

894
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,080
S7: cultural change at Waystar that like, she just gets so

895
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,780
S7: kind of like bulldozed by the Frank and Carl show.

896
00:41:46,780 --> 00:41:49,120
S7: She's like only really got Karolina in a corner, even

897
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,730
S7: though she's like the CEO, she doesn't really seem to

898
00:41:51,730 --> 00:41:53,650
S7: be like a serious player in the chat, which is

899
00:41:53,650 --> 00:41:57,129
S7: like pretty damning indictment on the culture of Waystar Like

900
00:41:57,130 --> 00:41:58,810
S7: as soon as Logan goes, like, you know, the big

901
00:41:58,810 --> 00:42:00,400
S7: boys step in and we're just like, Is it going

902
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:01,359
S7: to be you or is it going to be me?

903
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:02,379
S7: Or is it maybe going to be one of these

904
00:42:02,500 --> 00:42:03,310
S7: other These like not.

905
00:42:03,310 --> 00:42:05,710
S5: A great corporate culture? No. When it comes to women, no.

906
00:42:05,710 --> 00:42:06,310
S7: Yeah, I know.

907
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:07,359
S20: She seemed kind.

908
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,580
S6: Of tired in this episode. I agree with you. Like

909
00:42:09,580 --> 00:42:12,960
S6: she just seemed to be exhausted. Jerry lite like. Yeah.

910
00:42:12,969 --> 00:42:15,190
S6: Just didn't have the same muster that she has had

911
00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:16,540
S6: in previous seasons.

912
00:42:16,540 --> 00:42:20,049
S7: No, I agree. I'm not sure what the future holds

913
00:42:20,050 --> 00:42:20,680
S7: for Jerry.

914
00:42:23,770 --> 00:42:27,340
S5: All right. Time for our weekly winners and losers. Who

915
00:42:27,340 --> 00:42:30,190
S5: are you giving your points to, Mail? First time. A

916
00:42:30,190 --> 00:42:30,980
S5: lot of pressure.

917
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,580
S6: I know, But I've been waiting for this moment because

918
00:42:33,580 --> 00:42:36,069
S6: I feel like you guys are absolutely insane that you

919
00:42:36,070 --> 00:42:40,360
S6: don't have Willa on your list. And Willa gets three

920
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:46,210
S6: points for me. I think Willow's transformation from the start

921
00:42:46,210 --> 00:42:50,200
S6: of this show to now is sensational. We met her

922
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,710
S6: in this season. She had this kind of structured outfit on.

923
00:42:53,710 --> 00:42:56,680
S6: Her hair was blonde and lightly curled, and she was

924
00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:01,299
S6: the exact opposite of what Greg's kind of date was

925
00:43:01,300 --> 00:43:03,880
S6: with the ugly handbag. And that was what she used

926
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,460
S6: to be when the show started. And look at Willow now,

927
00:43:06,460 --> 00:43:10,570
S6: and there's this great moment when she meets Marcia, and

928
00:43:10,570 --> 00:43:13,689
S6: Marcia says something like, You've done well for yourself. And

929
00:43:13,690 --> 00:43:16,360
S6: Willa says, So have you. And then Willa ends the

930
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,129
S6: episode with a property worth $63 million. And that's that.

931
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,600
S6: That's a good deal. And also, her mum's there checking

932
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,060
S6: out the awnings. So yeah, three points with.

933
00:43:25,060 --> 00:43:27,520
S5: A huge plate full of buffet food. Great stuff for

934
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:28,259
S5: the will of family.

935
00:43:28,270 --> 00:43:32,980
S6: What family? Three points. I'm giving Roman two points only

936
00:43:33,010 --> 00:43:35,050
S6: because I think we've made it clear that I have

937
00:43:35,050 --> 00:43:37,479
S6: a problem with Kendall that I probably need to go

938
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,130
S6: and see a therapist about. Maybe. But I'm hearing Roman

939
00:43:41,140 --> 00:43:43,480
S6: two points because I actually think he's playing quite smart.

940
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,960
S6: Kendall's all eggs in one basket. Roman's kind of playing

941
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:48,790
S6: the middle ground, too. And I think sometimes you've got

942
00:43:48,790 --> 00:43:52,060
S6: to play the middle ground because you know, you don't

943
00:43:52,060 --> 00:43:55,240
S6: offend anyone. And then I'm giving jabs where I still

944
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,660
S6: am giving her one point because she survived. So you

945
00:43:58,660 --> 00:43:59,980
S6: get one point for that.

946
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,029
S5: And who lost?

947
00:44:01,030 --> 00:44:04,960
S6: Oh, Biggest Loser was best pal security guard Colin. One moment.

948
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,990
S6: He's like going to dinner with Logan and he's kind

949
00:44:07,989 --> 00:44:10,660
S6: of in it. And if Kendall's the CEO, I just

950
00:44:10,660 --> 00:44:13,270
S6: feel like he's a physically fit man. He doesn't need

951
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:16,690
S6: Colin as much as Logan does. And yeah, so I

952
00:44:16,690 --> 00:44:18,880
S6: just don't really know what Colin's going to if he's

953
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:19,719
S6: going to get the same level.

954
00:44:19,780 --> 00:44:22,000
S5: Protecting the staircase from Carrie there.

955
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,130
S6: Yeah. Taking her out the back. Like, is he going

956
00:44:24,130 --> 00:44:27,070
S6: to get the same level of professional fulfillment with Kendall?

957
00:44:27,070 --> 00:44:28,959
S6: I don't think so. So, yeah, best pal.

958
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,299
S5: Colin Thomas, give me your rundown.

959
00:44:31,300 --> 00:44:34,730
S7: All right, cool. My winner was Kendall. He made the

960
00:44:34,730 --> 00:44:37,880
S7: big play. He's, you know, the CEO now or he's

961
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,920
S7: going to be the interim. But also he stabbed his

962
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,590
S7: brother in the back a la Logan. Roy. So that's

963
00:44:42,590 --> 00:44:46,520
S7: three points. Kendall Two points I gave to Tom. Controversial.

964
00:44:47,780 --> 00:44:50,240
S7: But I actually thought, you know, his weird, like, kind

965
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,000
S7: of like ping pong around the house here to serve

966
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,240
S7: was very much a Tom play. And at least he's

967
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,200
S7: keeping himself in the conversation. I think, like Tom always

968
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,590
S7: knows how to. He's always annoying everybody, but he kind

969
00:45:03,590 --> 00:45:05,930
S7: of is not annoying enough to make you hate him.

970
00:45:05,930 --> 00:45:07,730
S7: So I thought that was actually kind of smart. He's

971
00:45:07,730 --> 00:45:10,310
S7: kind of on everyone's okay side. And then I gave

972
00:45:10,310 --> 00:45:14,540
S7: Hugo a point. Because he has like I mean, he's

973
00:45:14,540 --> 00:45:16,430
S7: taken on this job from Kendal. Kendal for me, is

974
00:45:16,430 --> 00:45:18,890
S7: the winner. So he's kind of got proximity to power,

975
00:45:18,890 --> 00:45:21,049
S7: which is always important in succession. And for me, the

976
00:45:21,050 --> 00:45:24,020
S7: loser was Shiv. Yeah, I guess ultimately it's a show

977
00:45:24,020 --> 00:45:26,840
S7: about power. And she got stitched up by the brothers. Sure,

978
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:28,549
S7: there was lots of conversations about how it's going to

979
00:45:28,550 --> 00:45:30,410
S7: be equal to the gram, but like at the end

980
00:45:30,410 --> 00:45:32,690
S7: of the day, Kendall and Roman are on top, and

981
00:45:32,690 --> 00:45:34,819
S7: she's in this, like, really weird state of flux.

982
00:45:34,969 --> 00:45:39,440
S5: Yeah, I gave Kendall my three points as well. Undeniably

983
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,770
S5: came out of this episode on top. Marcia I chucked

984
00:45:42,770 --> 00:45:45,320
S5: a couple of points her way because she's come back

985
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,670
S5: from Milan, presumably with a new wardrobe, and she's seemingly

986
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:51,590
S5: kind of leading things, you know, at least for the

987
00:45:51,590 --> 00:45:57,590
S5: next little while as as Logan's most significant ex and Roman,

988
00:45:57,590 --> 00:45:59,720
S5: I gave a point to as well for, for sort

989
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,360
S5: of following his brother along and ending up in pretty

990
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,450
S5: senior position. I had a really tough time picking my

991
00:46:05,450 --> 00:46:09,980
S5: loser between Shiv like you did, Thomas or Tom. I

992
00:46:09,980 --> 00:46:13,100
S5: feel like Tom. We didn't really get into him in

993
00:46:13,100 --> 00:46:15,710
S5: the earlier part of the conversation, but he goes up

994
00:46:15,710 --> 00:46:20,480
S5: to basically every faction in contention and gets rebuffed for them.

995
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,439
S5: He's willing to serve the greybeards They shut him down.

996
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,860
S5: He's willing to serve. Kendall He just says, I like you.

997
00:46:27,860 --> 00:46:33,650
S5: Good luck. He tries to charm Shiv by reminding her

998
00:46:33,650 --> 00:46:36,350
S5: of their first date and what that was all like.

999
00:46:36,350 --> 00:46:39,290
S5: And she's basically like, no, she just, like leaves and

1000
00:46:39,290 --> 00:46:44,390
S5: walks away. He's basically left out on his own. Ultimately,

1001
00:46:44,390 --> 00:46:47,180
S5: I went with him. But the fact that him and

1002
00:46:47,180 --> 00:46:50,060
S5: Shiva both at the bottom of the pile after this episode,

1003
00:46:50,060 --> 00:46:52,970
S5: I think leads me into my prediction for what I

1004
00:46:52,969 --> 00:46:56,150
S5: think could happen next And and we'll see it develop

1005
00:46:56,150 --> 00:46:58,130
S5: over the next few episodes is I think both of

1006
00:46:58,130 --> 00:47:02,150
S5: those guys have been shafted and maybe they'll realize and

1007
00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:03,799
S5: this goes to your theory, Thomas, I think you've had

1008
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,820
S5: since episode one, when Meg and I very quickly rebuked you.

1009
00:47:07,820 --> 00:47:10,190
S7: Yes, I was just going to say, I predicted this

1010
00:47:10,310 --> 00:47:13,430
S7: Shiv and Tom reunion and everyone laughed at me and

1011
00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:15,650
S7: everyone ignored me. I was like the Connor Roy of

1012
00:47:15,650 --> 00:47:18,049
S7: this podcast. And then look what's happening now. Yeah, I.

1013
00:47:18,050 --> 00:47:20,330
S5: Think I think that maybe they'll realize that they were

1014
00:47:20,330 --> 00:47:23,239
S5: better together and things were working well for both of them.

1015
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,700
S5: Whether the pregnancy plays a part in that, I'm not

1016
00:47:25,700 --> 00:47:27,890
S5: quite sure. But I do think that we are going

1017
00:47:27,890 --> 00:47:30,259
S5: to get a reunion with the two of them of

1018
00:47:30,260 --> 00:47:33,290
S5: some kind. Mel, talk us through your prediction.

1019
00:47:33,290 --> 00:47:35,780
S6: I think we're going to see more of Carrie. I

1020
00:47:35,780 --> 00:47:38,150
S6: don't think you have a Carrie in the show unless

1021
00:47:38,150 --> 00:47:40,790
S6: you're going to use her and the way the show

1022
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:44,600
S6: has previously treated kind of the women, they don't kind

1023
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,509
S6: of go quietly. They get their revenge, as we're seeing

1024
00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:52,219
S6: with Marcia now. We know that Carrie's already saying that

1025
00:47:52,219 --> 00:47:55,970
S6: there was a marriage deal and there's paper. She suddenly

1026
00:47:55,969 --> 00:47:59,600
S6: got Roman's private number. She's got something on Greg, like

1027
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,390
S6: she's probably got the sex tape floating around. She's got

1028
00:48:02,390 --> 00:48:06,020
S6: resentment against she's got resentment against Tom because she didn't

1029
00:48:06,020 --> 00:48:08,959
S6: get the the anchoring role. We know she's got ambition.

1030
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,730
S6: And there was also that weird moment in the last

1031
00:48:10,730 --> 00:48:15,290
S6: episode where when Logan died, she kind of expected to

1032
00:48:15,290 --> 00:48:17,630
S6: be in the room and they pushed her out and

1033
00:48:17,630 --> 00:48:19,190
S6: she was a bit odd about it. So I think

1034
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:21,680
S6: I think we're going to see a bit more of.

1035
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,500
S7: Carrie Yeah, I actually I'm kind of into that theory

1036
00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:26,450
S7: because I was pretty I think I predicted shockingly, I

1037
00:48:26,450 --> 00:48:28,850
S7: was wrong that we wouldn't see her again after last week.

1038
00:48:28,850 --> 00:48:30,680
S7: And then she was like very much I mean, she

1039
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:31,910
S7: was only in a single scene, but it was a

1040
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:34,609
S7: big scene. It was like pretty that was actually like

1041
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,810
S7: crushing that scene. When Marcia sends her off to the subway, like, Oh,

1042
00:48:38,810 --> 00:48:39,920
S7: that was hard to watch.

1043
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,350
S5: And Greg is like, Here come the waterworks. Like Greg

1044
00:48:42,350 --> 00:48:45,110
S5: is really rubbing it in, which was really, really intense.

1045
00:48:45,110 --> 00:48:47,330
S6: Greg was like, this echoed it the whole time in

1046
00:48:47,330 --> 00:48:49,730
S6: the back read This is so distasteful. He's just like

1047
00:48:49,730 --> 00:48:52,340
S6: this little echo. It was so much.

1048
00:48:52,820 --> 00:48:56,240
S7: My predictions are Kendall to go rogue as he's already

1049
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,299
S7: indicated which is how the show started and so how

1050
00:48:59,300 --> 00:49:01,820
S7: it will probably end. But yeah, I think similar to yours,

1051
00:49:01,820 --> 00:49:03,920
S7: I guess I don't think it's going to be a

1052
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,470
S7: greybeards versus the siblings. I think it's going to be

1053
00:49:06,469 --> 00:49:10,370
S7: like an all out factional war. It'll be Greybeards versus

1054
00:49:10,489 --> 00:49:14,030
S7: Roman versus Kendall versus Shiv and Tom. It'll just be

1055
00:49:14,030 --> 00:49:17,180
S7: like everyone kind of like sniping and biting and trying

1056
00:49:17,180 --> 00:49:20,779
S7: to kind of bring each other down. So yeah, other

1057
00:49:20,780 --> 00:49:23,840
S7: than that, I really don't know what to expect. But ultimately,

1058
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,420
S7: my biggest prediction is that the Nokia 3310 is going

1059
00:49:26,420 --> 00:49:28,370
S7: to make a comeback because you can't trace that shit.

1060
00:49:29,150 --> 00:49:30,770
S7: I have a whole drawer full of them. So if

1061
00:49:30,770 --> 00:49:35,029
S7: Jesse Armstrong wants to get in touch, just licensed facts. Correct.

1062
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:36,140
S7: Just hit me up. I can't wait.

1063
00:49:36,140 --> 00:49:38,899
S5: To check in with you on like, phone watch over

1064
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:42,859
S5: the next six episodes. Thomas Mitchell, thank you for joining

1065
00:49:42,860 --> 00:49:45,710
S5: as usual. Mel, great to have you on. Wonderful to

1066
00:49:45,710 --> 00:49:47,990
S5: have you as part of this team. See you both

1067
00:49:47,989 --> 00:49:48,560
S5: next time.

1068
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:49,759
S6: Thanks for having me. See you later.

1069
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:56,870
S5: This succession recap episode of The Drop was produced by

1070
00:49:56,870 --> 00:50:00,469
S5: Ruby Schwartz. If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of

1071
00:50:00,469 --> 00:50:02,779
S5: The drop, make sure to follow us in your favorite

1072
00:50:02,780 --> 00:50:05,530
S5: podcast app. You can give us a review or better yet,

1073
00:50:05,540 --> 00:50:09,110
S5: share it with a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui. See you

1074
00:50:09,110 --> 00:50:09,800
S5: next week.