1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:05,200 S1: Housing affordability in Australia is at an all time low, 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:09,039 S1: and it's left young people rethinking the dream of home ownership, 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:14,760 S1: something previous generations had taken for granted. I'm Julia Carcasole 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,640 S1: and you're listening to Morning Edition. From The Age and 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:22,560 S1: The Sydney Morning Herald today, property reporter Caroline Zielinski on 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,560 S1: whether we can or should return to the great Australian dream. 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,840 S1: The enduring belief that home ownership can lead to a 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:36,840 S1: better life. Caroline, welcome to the podcast. 9 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,000 S2: Thank you very much. 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,360 S1: So you've been reporting on housing in Australia. And when 11 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,640 S1: we think about the 1950s, life looked very different for 12 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,960 S1: Australians aspiring to own their own home. Can you paint 13 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,080 S1: a bit of a picture for us of what life 14 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:51,760 S1: looked like? 15 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,400 S3: Well, the way I approached this was to find people 16 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,600 S3: who actually lived during that time and bought houses. I 17 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,120 S3: find that a lot of reporting sort of about boomers 18 00:01:02,220 --> 00:01:05,339 S3: finding their houses. It's based in the economics. So I thought, 19 00:01:05,340 --> 00:01:08,260 S3: why don't I just find someone who's 80 plus and 20 00:01:08,300 --> 00:01:11,060 S3: actually ask them how it was? And one of those 21 00:01:11,060 --> 00:01:15,819 S3: people was Neil Robertson. He's 77 and he bought his 22 00:01:15,819 --> 00:01:19,780 S3: first house in Fitzroy, an inner city suburb in Melbourne, 23 00:01:19,940 --> 00:01:22,300 S3: for 7500 dollars. 24 00:01:23,060 --> 00:01:25,060 S4: I don't think I saved up at all, and I 25 00:01:25,060 --> 00:01:28,740 S4: think I put 1500 as a deposit on the house, 26 00:01:29,100 --> 00:01:31,940 S4: and I paid it off monthly at around about $100, 27 00:01:31,940 --> 00:01:33,260 S4: maybe a little bit more a month. 28 00:01:33,459 --> 00:01:37,620 S3: Neil, like many of his generation, he did what was expected. 29 00:01:37,620 --> 00:01:40,419 S3: He worked hard. He bought a home, he fixed it up. 30 00:01:40,860 --> 00:01:43,539 S3: These houses weren't like what we expect now. They were 31 00:01:43,540 --> 00:01:47,140 S3: pretty dilapidated. There was an outhouse outside. 32 00:01:47,140 --> 00:01:51,340 S4: It was a small terrace. It had two power points, 33 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:53,460 S4: one for the toaster, one for the fridge. 34 00:01:54,140 --> 00:01:56,660 S3: So he sort of spent his time building it and 35 00:01:56,700 --> 00:01:58,620 S3: sort of his uncle helped him fix it up. 36 00:01:58,620 --> 00:02:01,300 S4: So that took quite some time. I did it room 37 00:02:01,300 --> 00:02:01,820 S4: by room. 38 00:02:02,060 --> 00:02:04,240 S3: I talked to other people as well, A couple in 39 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:08,280 S3: their 90s. And my colleague Alice Uribe talked to people 40 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,800 S3: in Sydney about this. And we sort of all found 41 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,560 S3: out that most of these people paid off their mortgage 42 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,480 S3: by 30 or 40, which kind of hurts because today's 43 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,240 S3: my my 38th birthday and I'm not not close to 44 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,800 S3: paying off my mortgage. Um, let's put it that not Neil, 45 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,120 S3: but other people like him ended up buying extra houses or, 46 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,000 S3: you know, it was quite manageable back then. I think 47 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,120 S3: houses cost about three and a half times the average wage. 48 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,600 S3: You know, they, they maybe bought an investment property, a 49 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,760 S3: small nest egg for the kids. You know, their decisions 50 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,240 S3: were were quite rational. They were measured. They were even humble. 51 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,200 S3: The houses weren't huge. They weren't home cinemas. But the 52 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,160 S3: thing is that read through the eyes of generations today, 53 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,400 S3: younger generations, these choices, these opportunities are what many believe 54 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,960 S3: have contributed to their own difficulties in achieving the same 55 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:00,880 S3: sort of Australian dream. 56 00:03:04,139 --> 00:03:07,500 S1: Mhm. And so tell me more about what it actually 57 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:09,900 S1: meant to own a home back in that time, because 58 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:13,740 S1: there was an ideology, a political ideology underpinning it wasn't there? 59 00:03:13,780 --> 00:03:17,900 S3: Yes there was. So in that time, you know, if 60 00:03:17,940 --> 00:03:20,420 S3: you cast your mind back to the Second World War, 61 00:03:20,820 --> 00:03:22,980 S3: a lot of soldiers came back and there was this 62 00:03:22,980 --> 00:03:25,340 S3: political will to make sure that they had somewhere to live, 63 00:03:25,340 --> 00:03:28,660 S3: somewhere affordable to buy a house. And there was all 64 00:03:28,660 --> 00:03:30,500 S3: these policies that came in. A lot of them were 65 00:03:30,500 --> 00:03:33,460 S3: led by Robert Menzies, who was the longest serving Australian 66 00:03:33,460 --> 00:03:37,580 S3: prime minister who helped cement property ownership in the Australian psyche. 67 00:03:38,020 --> 00:03:40,300 S3: He and his government and also, you know, the opposition, 68 00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:42,740 S3: also thought that it was very important that everyone has 69 00:03:42,740 --> 00:03:46,140 S3: access to a house because he believed that if Australians 70 00:03:46,140 --> 00:03:48,260 S3: owned their own home, they would have a bigger stake 71 00:03:48,260 --> 00:03:52,780 S3: in the country. So effectively becoming, you know, little capitalist, 72 00:03:52,820 --> 00:03:55,300 S3: you you would care about your country a little bit 73 00:03:55,300 --> 00:03:57,260 S3: more because you owned a stake in it. 74 00:03:58,100 --> 00:04:00,900 S5: And looking forward to an attack on the great problems 75 00:04:00,900 --> 00:04:03,580 S5: of Australia. All that I want to say about those 76 00:04:03,580 --> 00:04:06,920 S5: problems is this, that I don't believe their problems for 77 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,360 S5: one section of the Australian people. The problem of Australian security, 78 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:12,000 S5: for example. 79 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,600 S1: So what were some of those policies that did actually 80 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,320 S1: help that dream come alive? 81 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,840 S3: Well, between the end of the Second World War and 82 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,680 S3: sort of the late 1970s, house prices were really stable. 83 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,800 S3: They were about, as I mentioned before, three and a 84 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:29,680 S3: half times the average weekly earnings. But governments, I think, 85 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,360 S3: both believe that the primary role was to boost housing supply. 86 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,720 S3: So in the 1950s, nearly 1 in 5 homes were 87 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,280 S3: built by government. So they actually built these homes for people, 88 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,760 S3: which has significantly reduced today. But, you know, many of 89 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,840 S3: them may have been sort of poorly located. That's sort 90 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,200 S3: of where your Broadmeadows in Melbourne and outer suburb in 91 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,640 S3: the north west exist. So they were poorly serviced amenities, 92 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,800 S3: but they provided secure housing for people at an affordable 93 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,360 S3: price for both home owners and for the renters. And 94 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,000 S3: in 1963, Menzies introduced the first Home Owners grant scheme, 95 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:08,740 S3: which shifted government policies from boosting supply towards inflating demand. 96 00:05:08,740 --> 00:05:11,100 S3: And that's sort of where we start to see the 97 00:05:11,100 --> 00:05:14,420 S3: changes creeping in. It would take a while until that happened, 98 00:05:14,420 --> 00:05:18,500 S3: but you sort of start getting that, that feeling that 99 00:05:18,540 --> 00:05:20,980 S3: housing is a little bit more than just somewhere to live. 100 00:05:21,140 --> 00:05:23,940 S3: It might be a pathway towards building wealth. 101 00:05:25,460 --> 00:05:28,180 S1: So tell me more about those main drivers that I 102 00:05:28,220 --> 00:05:30,979 S1: guess have made housing unaffordable in the end. So we're 103 00:05:30,980 --> 00:05:35,900 S1: talking about grant schemes, negative gearing, different tax changes that 104 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:37,540 S1: do end up inflating demand. 105 00:05:37,700 --> 00:05:41,659 S3: Well, it's a really complicated situation as you can imagine. 106 00:05:41,660 --> 00:05:44,260 S3: And it includes that shift towards seeing housing as a 107 00:05:44,260 --> 00:05:47,419 S3: vehicle for wealth building rather than just somewhere to live. 108 00:05:47,660 --> 00:05:50,140 S3: So this is underpinned by a bunch of policies that 109 00:05:50,140 --> 00:05:53,820 S3: were introduced by both governments since the 70s. So you've 110 00:05:53,820 --> 00:05:57,220 S3: got the changes to capital gains tax concessions, which made 111 00:05:57,220 --> 00:06:01,860 S3: it easier for investors to purchase property. So as a result, 112 00:06:01,860 --> 00:06:04,660 S3: more home loans were taken out by investors largely to 113 00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:09,440 S3: buy established properties, which experts say have actually driven up prices. 114 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,920 S3: Local governments have also made it more expensive to redevelop 115 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,039 S3: in these established suburbs. That's all that sort of zoning 116 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,760 S3: laws that you hear, and the suburbs you're thinking are 117 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,840 S3: the sort of inner and mid city suburbs in in 118 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,400 S3: a lot of these capital cities that have high amenity, 119 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,440 S3: good access to school, public transport, sort of these places 120 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,200 S3: where most people want to live. But it's very difficult 121 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,960 S3: now to redevelop that into higher density living as Australia 122 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,440 S3: tends to build a lot of detached housing. We we 123 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,640 S3: really love our big houses that are sort of not 124 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,200 S3: units or apartments. As a result, we've left a lot 125 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:47,640 S3: of those detached big houses now in the the greenfield sites, 126 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,719 S3: which are sort of outer suburbs really far from from 127 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,159 S3: the city, 30km plus, which have a lot less amenities 128 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,760 S3: and infrastructure. And that's, that's a problem. You know, they 129 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:00,520 S3: have less schools, they have less access to a lot 130 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,280 S3: of things. I mean, you've probably often hear I mean, 131 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,719 S3: I'm from Melbourne, but you know Sydney as well. Traffic problems. 132 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,679 S3: You can't get in now. The governments are all playing 133 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,100 S3: catch up really try to connect those outer suburbs to 134 00:07:13,420 --> 00:07:16,980 S3: sort of. The city and stuff like that. So but 135 00:07:16,980 --> 00:07:19,660 S3: the problem is that's still where the land is available to. Build. 136 00:07:19,940 --> 00:07:24,500 S3: So trying to now retrofit some of these inner suburbs 137 00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:28,420 S3: is proving very difficult. On a variety of federal, state 138 00:07:28,420 --> 00:07:29,900 S3: and local government levels. 139 00:07:30,260 --> 00:07:33,740 S1: So all those drivers combined. Have meant that houses are 140 00:07:34,020 --> 00:07:39,140 S1: exorbitantly expensive and people are moving further out. And the 141 00:07:39,140 --> 00:07:42,140 S1: prospect of home ownership for a lot of people, including myself, 142 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:46,460 S1: looks very different to the 1950s. Can you tell me 143 00:07:46,460 --> 00:07:48,300 S1: about some of the people you spoke to about that? 144 00:07:48,340 --> 00:07:51,260 S3: Yeah. So, you know, as a sort of a first, 145 00:07:51,300 --> 00:07:53,780 S3: you know, to say like a lot of people are 146 00:07:53,780 --> 00:07:57,180 S3: still buying into the market, right? Like the problem is today, 147 00:07:57,420 --> 00:08:01,380 S3: a lot of younger generations have to rely on sort 148 00:08:01,380 --> 00:08:03,780 S3: of the bank of mum and dad as we've heard about, 149 00:08:03,780 --> 00:08:06,860 S3: or they have to live really, really far away, which 150 00:08:06,860 --> 00:08:09,260 S3: is often quite difficult if you want to live sort 151 00:08:09,260 --> 00:08:12,040 S3: of in the inner city, you're looking at millions and millions. 152 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,640 S3: Sydney as a. It's a total outlier like Sydney is 153 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:20,000 S3: insane and I am very sad for my colleagues there 154 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,080 S3: and everyone who lives there. I just don't know. 155 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:22,840 S1: It's so. 156 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,320 S3: True. Yeah, at least in Melbourne you can get something. Yeah. 157 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:33,000 S3: Um Australians median dwelling value is now $901,000 according to 158 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,280 S3: the totality home value index. Um you know that's compared 159 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:42,160 S3: with a median annual household pre-tax income of $104,000, which 160 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,360 S3: means it would take 11 years to save a 20% deposit, 161 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,480 S3: which is the most on record. As a result, more 162 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,040 S3: than half of the people born in the late 1980s 163 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,600 S3: hello did not own their own home by their early 30s, 164 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,400 S3: and we are the first generation to do so. 165 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,560 S1: How are the younger generations of today making it work? 166 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,200 S3: Then we tried to find sort of the different ways 167 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,880 S3: younger generations are making do with home ownership that is 168 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,440 S3: a little bit different to to the baby boomers and 169 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,329 S3: maybe the Gen Xers and how they sort of approach this. 170 00:09:13,850 --> 00:09:17,610 S3: So I interviewed, you know, a couple of migrants, Ricky 171 00:09:17,610 --> 00:09:20,850 S3: and his wife, Sherry, and Ricky and his brother and 172 00:09:20,850 --> 00:09:23,170 S3: his wife worked a couple of jobs over four years, 173 00:09:23,610 --> 00:09:27,210 S3: so they could save a 10% deposit for that big house. 174 00:09:27,210 --> 00:09:29,090 S3: That is still part of that Australian dream. 175 00:09:29,330 --> 00:09:32,050 S6: It's more freedom because when you're living with someone else, 176 00:09:32,050 --> 00:09:34,890 S6: it's hard. You can't do things the way you want it, 177 00:09:35,210 --> 00:09:37,770 S6: but when it's your home, you can design it your 178 00:09:37,770 --> 00:09:39,010 S6: way and everything. Yeah. 179 00:09:39,050 --> 00:09:40,689 S7: Yes. That's right. Yeah, that's another thing. 180 00:09:40,730 --> 00:09:41,650 S6: Yeah, yeah. 181 00:09:41,970 --> 00:09:44,969 S3: They ended up buying in the outskirts in Craigieburn, which 182 00:09:44,970 --> 00:09:47,250 S3: is about 30km north of Melbourne's CBD. 183 00:09:47,970 --> 00:09:52,250 S7: The houses are getting unaffordable now because, uh, when we 184 00:09:52,250 --> 00:09:55,170 S7: bought this property, things were different, you know, like we bought, 185 00:09:55,210 --> 00:09:58,930 S7: as I said, we bought this house for 380,000, which 186 00:09:58,929 --> 00:10:02,970 S7: was like a decent amount for a 490 square metre block. 187 00:10:03,170 --> 00:10:06,290 S7: But now getting the same block or maybe same house 188 00:10:06,330 --> 00:10:09,610 S7: is like more than double. And it's not even ten years, 189 00:10:09,650 --> 00:10:11,330 S7: you know, it's nearly ten years here. 190 00:10:11,490 --> 00:10:15,829 S3: I also ended up talking to people like Will and Katie. 191 00:10:16,150 --> 00:10:20,550 S3: Will and Katie are a little bit different. They've decided 192 00:10:20,550 --> 00:10:23,790 S3: to rent. At least for the time being, if not forever. 193 00:10:24,030 --> 00:10:26,710 S3: They have three children, three young children, and the kind 194 00:10:26,710 --> 00:10:28,950 S3: of house they want. And in the area they want, 195 00:10:28,990 --> 00:10:31,589 S3: they cannot afford or they've they've done the numbers. We're 196 00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:34,830 S3: talking two plus million again for our Sydney audience, that's 197 00:10:34,830 --> 00:10:37,110 S3: probably a drop in the water. But in Melbourne it's 198 00:10:37,110 --> 00:10:37,949 S3: quite expensive. 199 00:10:38,190 --> 00:10:41,230 S8: It was that commute back and forth to childcare, knowing 200 00:10:41,270 --> 00:10:44,590 S8: childcare needed our firstborn to be picked up at a 201 00:10:44,590 --> 00:10:47,710 S8: certain time, and us just having to constantly text each 202 00:10:47,710 --> 00:10:49,949 S8: other and debate, oh, how are you going on the train? 203 00:10:49,950 --> 00:10:52,510 S8: How am I going driving? We did that three times 204 00:10:52,510 --> 00:10:56,470 S8: and that was enough to say like, no, the Clifton 205 00:10:56,470 --> 00:10:58,870 S8: Hill is beautiful, but it's just too hard for our 206 00:10:58,870 --> 00:11:02,870 S8: jobs right now. And I think because we also knew like, 207 00:11:02,910 --> 00:11:06,390 S8: eventually we'll be switching jobs. Like you need to keep flexible, 208 00:11:06,550 --> 00:11:10,550 S8: I'd say with your living location and your working location. 209 00:11:10,550 --> 00:11:14,270 S8: And so I, it just makes more sense to find 210 00:11:14,270 --> 00:11:16,610 S8: the right place for right now and be comfortable with 211 00:11:16,610 --> 00:11:17,610 S8: your needs changing. 212 00:11:18,130 --> 00:11:21,410 S3: So they've done the math. And you know, they don't 213 00:11:21,410 --> 00:11:23,569 S3: see renting as a stepping stone to home ownership, but 214 00:11:23,570 --> 00:11:27,530 S3: a rational response to what they consider an unstable market. 215 00:11:27,570 --> 00:11:29,490 S3: It helps that they're not very sentimental, which means they 216 00:11:29,490 --> 00:11:32,010 S3: can sort of uproot themselves whenever the kids grow up. 217 00:11:32,250 --> 00:11:33,850 S9: And so it's fantastic to be able to kind of 218 00:11:33,890 --> 00:11:37,250 S9: just change your house to meet your needs, as opposed 219 00:11:37,250 --> 00:11:40,170 S9: to spend this huge amount of money up front and 220 00:11:40,210 --> 00:11:43,330 S9: kind of hope you've ticked off all the boxes into 221 00:11:43,330 --> 00:11:44,330 S9: the future for what? 222 00:11:44,610 --> 00:11:48,730 S8: Or continuously fund the renovations to keep the house fitting 223 00:11:48,730 --> 00:11:49,730 S8: what your needs are. 224 00:11:51,050 --> 00:11:53,370 S3: What they have is, you know, the keys to remain 225 00:11:53,370 --> 00:11:56,650 S3: flexible and have alternative wealth plans. The couple says they've 226 00:11:56,650 --> 00:12:01,449 S3: invested widely, including exchange traded funds, superannuation and US investments, 227 00:12:01,450 --> 00:12:05,090 S3: and they have also emergency savings. Other people that we 228 00:12:05,090 --> 00:12:08,250 S3: interviewed also have decided to move from a house to 229 00:12:08,290 --> 00:12:11,490 S3: a unit. So that's a really interesting way of looking 230 00:12:11,490 --> 00:12:13,890 S3: at it. Like in Australia, traditionally, we don't really consider 231 00:12:13,890 --> 00:12:17,010 S3: apartments and units as a viable way of living. Right? 232 00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:19,069 S3: We just kind of see it as a, a stepping 233 00:12:19,070 --> 00:12:23,870 S3: stone towards getting your house, which is quite interesting. I've 234 00:12:23,870 --> 00:12:25,670 S3: lived in Europe, I grew up in Europe. I lived 235 00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:28,270 S3: there a couple of years ago again, and it's so 236 00:12:28,270 --> 00:12:30,270 S3: normal to live in apartments. Like it's a whole different. 237 00:12:30,270 --> 00:12:32,670 S3: We just have a totally different mentality to this. And 238 00:12:32,670 --> 00:12:34,910 S3: I think we're at a point that we have to 239 00:12:34,950 --> 00:12:37,510 S3: sort of start thinking of different ways of living, rather 240 00:12:37,510 --> 00:12:39,990 S3: than just in these big houses that are, you know, 241 00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:41,429 S3: so expensive. 242 00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:58,189 S1: We'll be right back. But there may be hope on 243 00:12:58,190 --> 00:13:01,750 S1: the horizon. The current labor government is hoping to tweak 244 00:13:01,790 --> 00:13:05,830 S1: or enact some tax reform in the upcoming May budget. 245 00:13:06,309 --> 00:13:09,350 S1: What kinds of things are they looking to change? And 246 00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:12,830 S1: do you think that'll even scratch the surface? 247 00:13:12,950 --> 00:13:17,110 S3: Well, we've heard that the treasurer, Jim Chalmers Department, is 248 00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:21,290 S3: working on options to overhaul negative gearing modeling rules that 249 00:13:21,290 --> 00:13:24,770 S3: would limit negative gearing to two investment properties, as well 250 00:13:24,770 --> 00:13:28,569 S3: as plans to wind back the 50% capital gains discount, 251 00:13:28,570 --> 00:13:31,650 S3: but only for investment properties. Now, this is not at 252 00:13:31,650 --> 00:13:35,050 S3: all confirmed. It's sort of just been, you know, put 253 00:13:35,050 --> 00:13:39,130 S3: out there into the world to see how people react. Personally, 254 00:13:39,130 --> 00:13:42,290 S3: I don't think this will move the dial too much, 255 00:13:42,290 --> 00:13:46,689 S3: but I mean it's a start. Critics say also that 256 00:13:46,730 --> 00:13:50,650 S3: what it actually will take is for people who are 257 00:13:50,650 --> 00:13:54,089 S3: homeowners to actually, unfortunately or fortunately, whichever way you look 258 00:13:54,090 --> 00:13:56,410 S3: at it, to start sort of voting against their own 259 00:13:56,410 --> 00:14:00,650 S3: interests and to sort of accept that they have the House. Like, 260 00:14:00,690 --> 00:14:04,530 S3: is it actually reasonable to expect houses to keep rising 261 00:14:04,530 --> 00:14:08,170 S3: and rising and rising? We're sort of in this mentality 262 00:14:08,170 --> 00:14:10,050 S3: in Australia. We just expect the houses will just go 263 00:14:10,050 --> 00:14:12,969 S3: up and up and up, but that just means that 264 00:14:13,010 --> 00:14:16,130 S3: it makes it impossible for younger generations to get in 265 00:14:16,130 --> 00:14:20,950 S3: without the help of parents and grandparents. And, you know, 266 00:14:21,310 --> 00:14:24,350 S3: the government, I think is a little bit reluctant to 267 00:14:24,350 --> 00:14:28,150 S3: do big changes considering the Bill shorten election. And I 268 00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:31,350 S3: think that spooked them a fair bit. But I think 269 00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:33,870 S3: it's a different time. I think they can take a 270 00:14:33,870 --> 00:14:36,270 S3: bit more risks. But you know we'll see in May. 271 00:14:38,070 --> 00:14:41,070 S3: Experts say that it will take a lot of political will, 272 00:14:41,070 --> 00:14:44,390 S3: which was sort of seeing the beginnings of as well 273 00:14:44,390 --> 00:14:47,070 S3: as homeowners essentially voting against their own interests so that 274 00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:50,110 S3: they're further their kids and grandkids can have a life 275 00:14:50,110 --> 00:14:54,990 S3: that they have. And, you know, politicians know that at 276 00:14:54,990 --> 00:14:57,950 S3: any point in time, there are 11 million Australians who 277 00:14:57,950 --> 00:15:00,830 S3: own their own home, and there are about 2.5 million 278 00:15:00,870 --> 00:15:04,670 S3: Australians who own at least one investment property. I mean, 279 00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:07,110 S3: there's a lot of overlap between those two. So that's 280 00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:09,790 S3: close to about 12 million votes for policies that would 281 00:15:09,790 --> 00:15:13,190 S3: keep house prices going up. Australia's not a very big country, 282 00:15:13,470 --> 00:15:17,350 S3: so that is by far the majority. Like a lot 283 00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:23,130 S3: of experts, I don't know how how long this can 284 00:15:23,130 --> 00:15:26,810 S3: keep going for. You know, at this point, people who 285 00:15:26,810 --> 00:15:31,570 S3: bought a unit potentially even ten years ago thinking that 286 00:15:31,570 --> 00:15:34,490 S3: that's a stepping stone towards getting a bigger house or 287 00:15:34,530 --> 00:15:38,130 S3: sort of moving up there effectively, effectively have been priced 288 00:15:38,130 --> 00:15:40,650 S3: out of the market. The housing market, which has grown 289 00:15:40,650 --> 00:15:43,890 S3: so much faster and bigger than units have. And we 290 00:15:43,890 --> 00:15:45,450 S3: have a lot of stories on that as well. If 291 00:15:45,450 --> 00:15:48,170 S3: you guys want to have a look through that. But effectively, 292 00:15:48,210 --> 00:15:53,850 S3: units have grown much, much less than houses. And even, 293 00:15:54,210 --> 00:15:56,570 S3: you know, if you wanted to make that jump from 294 00:15:56,570 --> 00:15:58,890 S3: an apartment to a house, you'd probably be looking at 295 00:15:58,890 --> 00:16:01,970 S3: an entry level home, which at the moment in Melbourne 296 00:16:01,970 --> 00:16:06,450 S3: is about $720,000 as a median. And that's just houses 297 00:16:06,450 --> 00:16:10,290 S3: that are out, you know, out in, in 40, 50km out, 298 00:16:10,290 --> 00:16:12,090 S3: which is fine if you work in the area and 299 00:16:12,090 --> 00:16:13,650 S3: it's developed. But if you sort of work in the 300 00:16:13,650 --> 00:16:18,930 S3: city or anywhere else, then it's quite hard. Um, honestly, 301 00:16:18,930 --> 00:16:22,210 S3: I don't know. Like, I just feel like we're at 302 00:16:22,210 --> 00:16:25,030 S3: a point where it's just like a pressure cooker. I just, 303 00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:27,270 S3: I don't know how this is going to get solved 304 00:16:27,270 --> 00:16:31,510 S3: without some major, major political willpower. And I think a 305 00:16:31,510 --> 00:16:34,910 S3: lot of politicians don't want anyone to lose, right? Like 306 00:16:34,910 --> 00:16:38,070 S3: they're thinking they can solve the solution without anyone losing. 307 00:16:38,070 --> 00:16:41,110 S3: But house prices have to stop rising. They have to 308 00:16:41,150 --> 00:16:43,790 S3: stop going up, at the very least for people to 309 00:16:43,830 --> 00:16:46,310 S3: catch up, for wages to catch up. It's just there's 310 00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:47,110 S3: no other way. 311 00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:50,430 S1: Well, thank you very much for your time today, Caroline. 312 00:16:50,430 --> 00:16:52,470 S3: Thank you very much. Julia, I really appreciate it. 313 00:17:00,830 --> 00:17:05,790 S1: Today's episode was produced by me, Julia, our executive producer 314 00:17:05,790 --> 00:17:09,550 S1: is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa 315 00:17:09,550 --> 00:17:13,590 S1: Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like our show, follow 316 00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:16,350 S1: The Morning Edition and leave a review for us on 317 00:17:16,350 --> 00:17:19,109 S1: Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.