WEBVTT - The crisis in Australian music. Plus, did 'The Bear' redeem itself? 0:00:07.550 --> 0:00:10.970 Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a 0:00:10.970 --> 0:00:13.550 culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, 0:00:13.550 --> 0:00:15.590 where we dive into the latest in the world of 0:00:15.590 --> 0:00:19.070 pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Mel Kembery and 0:00:19.070 --> 0:00:21.500 Thomas Mitchell. What's up team? Good morning. 0:00:21.500 --> 0:00:24.890 Everybody. I am feeling very good today. I think Osman, 0:00:24.890 --> 0:00:27.530 you're looking particularly fine. I must say I don't want 0:00:27.530 --> 0:00:29.290 to do too much of a loving. But you're looking 0:00:29.290 --> 0:00:32.110 very like he's looking well rested. Trim. This is a 0:00:32.110 --> 0:00:32.920 good angle for you. 0:00:32.950 --> 0:00:35.500 What an original way for us to start the podcast again. 0:00:35.500 --> 0:00:38.950 By you guys complimenting each other on your physicality. 0:00:39.220 --> 0:00:43.150 Well, I, I'm not feeling particularly well rested, so I'm 0:00:43.150 --> 0:00:47.200 glad I'm looking good. Thomas. Thank you so much. Mel. 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.440 You look lovely. Delightful as always. Sparkling. 0:00:50.500 --> 0:00:52.300 Thank you. You both look lovely. 0:00:52.890 --> 0:00:55.470 We've covered that up. Osman. How? I was curious to know. 0:00:55.470 --> 0:00:58.260 How is it going with the parents in town? I 0:00:58.260 --> 0:00:59.400 know they're visiting. 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.370 My parents did visit. It was my birthday last week. 0:01:02.370 --> 0:01:04.890 End of last week. I got some very nice birthday 0:01:04.890 --> 0:01:06.750 messages from a bunch of people. I got some very 0:01:06.750 --> 0:01:09.720 mean ones from you guys. People who listened to the 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:14.160 podcast last week will recall that Thomas made a jibe 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:16.500 at me being a marvel guy. He sent me a 0:01:16.500 --> 0:01:20.860 very extended birthday message comparing me to Tony Stark and Spider-Man, 0:01:20.860 --> 0:01:24.190 which I did not appreciate at all. Um, yeah. My 0:01:24.190 --> 0:01:25.240 parents are in town for a couple of days. It 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.580 was nice to see them. Did you get a cake? 0:01:28.390 --> 0:01:29.890 I did not get a cake. I got a very 0:01:29.890 --> 0:01:32.530 nice sweater from my mum for my birthday, which I 0:01:32.530 --> 0:01:35.199 feel like is a very mum gift to get, but 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:36.730 also it was her birthday. Her birthday is just a 0:01:36.730 --> 0:01:39.910 few days after mine. So, um. Yeah, that was nice 0:01:39.910 --> 0:01:42.750 to celebrate with them. They're on holiday in Tasmania right now. 0:01:42.750 --> 0:01:45.509 She told me she, uh, listened to. Well, she listened 0:01:45.510 --> 0:01:48.540 to the pod all the time. And she's real deep 0:01:48.540 --> 0:01:52.050 in Presumed Innocent right now. She's loving it. She remembers 0:01:52.050 --> 0:01:54.540 the movie from the 90s, but is loving the TV show. 0:01:54.540 --> 0:01:56.550 Yeah, I feel like people are really getting into Presumed 0:01:56.550 --> 0:01:59.610 Innocent and like, I'm very much here for it, so 0:01:59.610 --> 0:02:01.830 I'm just dying for the finale at this point. 0:02:01.830 --> 0:02:04.650 Well, we'll have to get Mama Farooqi on the yeah, 0:02:04.650 --> 0:02:05.840 on the line for it. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.200 Um, there's quite a bit we're going to talk about 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.739 on the show today, but there's some exciting trailer related 0:02:12.740 --> 0:02:16.010 news to, I think, maybe kick things off with. We 0:02:16.010 --> 0:02:20.060 talked about the Gladiator two pictures that were revealed last week. 0:02:20.060 --> 0:02:22.790 We got the trailer on Wednesday morning. 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.830 Whose head could I give you that would satisfy this fury? 0:02:29.860 --> 0:02:35.320 The entire Roman army's too much. The general will do 0:02:35.710 --> 0:02:36.399 little things. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:40.030 And my throne must fall to my tool kit. I 0:02:40.030 --> 0:02:41.440 need only give it a push. 0:02:42.130 --> 0:02:44.740 Will you make it out alive? 0:02:45.430 --> 0:02:50.380 All right, all right. Tears on the mausoleum floor. Blood 0:02:50.380 --> 0:02:52.000 stains the Coliseum doors. 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:54.720 They really went all out for this trailer. That was 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.330 that was a lot of Denzel. There was a lot 0:02:57.330 --> 0:03:01.530 of Paul Mescal. There was the Coliseum being flooded with water. 0:03:01.530 --> 0:03:04.050 There was no church in the wild. 0:03:04.050 --> 0:03:07.560 Sorry, you've forgotten the gladiator riding the rhino. That was 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:09.150 a real highlight for me. That was a. 0:03:09.150 --> 0:03:12.030 Flashback to Russell in the first Gladiator, and maybe some 0:03:12.030 --> 0:03:15.540 suggestions that Paul's character is his long lost son. Maybe. 0:03:15.540 --> 0:03:17.070 Did you guys think that? 0:03:17.070 --> 0:03:20.530 I was actually surprised at how much like Russell or 0:03:20.530 --> 0:03:23.440 just like Russell Energy was in the trailer, like they're 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:25.600 really leaning on, I guess, the legacy of the first 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:27.880 Gladiator film, which we kind of talked about being a 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.790 bit of an issue. Um, I just thought, like, look, 0:03:30.790 --> 0:03:33.490 to be honest, the trailer isn't amazing, but it appealed 0:03:33.490 --> 0:03:35.680 to my specific set of tastes. Like I got hyped 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:37.780 for the film after watching it. I did think it 0:03:37.780 --> 0:03:40.180 was very funny. My absolute favorite take from seeing this 0:03:40.180 --> 0:03:42.570 so far is a tweet that said Respect to Denzel 0:03:42.570 --> 0:03:45.330 Washington for doing no accent work and acting and sounding 0:03:45.330 --> 0:03:46.980 like a corrupt cop from Yonkers. 0:03:48.150 --> 0:03:48.360 Because. 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.300 He just they even do the Denzel laugh in the trailer. 0:03:51.300 --> 0:03:52.830 Like it's just it's crazy. 0:03:52.830 --> 0:03:55.050 Oh, I thought I struggled to get through this. I 0:03:55.050 --> 0:03:56.820 can't imagine how I'm going to find the whole thing. 0:03:56.820 --> 0:03:57.870 I mean, it looked incredible. 0:03:57.870 --> 0:03:58.710 You didn't like the trailer. 0:03:58.740 --> 0:04:00.660 It was just it was just so much. And I 0:04:00.660 --> 0:04:02.670 kept thinking of, you know, there's that like Coco Chanel 0:04:02.670 --> 0:04:04.950 quote that's like, always take one thing off before you 0:04:04.950 --> 0:04:07.190 leave the house. I feel like Ridley Scott needs to 0:04:07.190 --> 0:04:09.980 learn that with special effects. It was I mean, it 0:04:09.980 --> 0:04:12.530 looked incredible, but all the water shots, boats, there were 0:04:12.530 --> 0:04:14.480 a lot of arrows there, a lot of swords in 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.179 the air. I just it feels like it's going to 0:04:17.180 --> 0:04:19.849 be a lot of a lot of fighting. And I do. 0:04:19.850 --> 0:04:22.250 Think like, you know, choosing no church in the wild, 0:04:22.250 --> 0:04:24.560 it's such a big choice. And already people are a 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:28.130 bit like, oh, is this like cheapening the legacy of Gladiator? 0:04:28.130 --> 0:04:29.690 I thought the song worked, and I mean, I love 0:04:29.690 --> 0:04:30.520 that song. 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:33.160 I was talking to one of our colleagues, Angus, yesterday, 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:37.750 funnily enough, about the use of like, big Kanye produced 0:04:37.750 --> 0:04:40.990 tracks in trailers, and there's a few really great examples, 0:04:40.990 --> 0:04:45.130 like power I think was used in The Social Network. Uh, 0:04:45.130 --> 0:04:48.610 Black Skinhead was used in something around that same time 0:04:48.610 --> 0:04:52.150 as well. There's something about like that maximalist sound that 0:04:52.150 --> 0:04:54.840 gets you really excited. Also, just the repetition of the 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.870 line about like the Colosseum again and again while we're 0:04:57.870 --> 0:04:59.700 looking at shots of the Colosseum. It's a little bit obvious, 0:04:59.700 --> 0:05:00.659 but but still pretty fun. 0:05:00.660 --> 0:05:02.729 It is funny, though, because I saw like this, you know, 0:05:02.730 --> 0:05:05.070 have you seen that Kanye has like texted someone saying 0:05:05.070 --> 0:05:06.900 he's retiring from music? Like, do you reckon he saw 0:05:06.900 --> 0:05:09.240 the trailer and was like, fuck, this is it for me? 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:09.870 I'm out. 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:12.779 Um, it was Wolf of Wall Street was Black Skinhead, 0:05:12.810 --> 0:05:13.049 I think. 0:05:13.050 --> 0:05:15.360 I was surprised to see the Russell throwback in the trailer. 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:16.770 And then I was wondering, are they going to do 0:05:16.770 --> 0:05:18.460 the are you not entertained line? 0:05:18.490 --> 0:05:22.299 Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? 0:05:23.650 --> 0:05:27.849 So I was generally excited about this trailer and like 0:05:27.850 --> 0:05:31.239 I really in this era. Yeah, it's hit and miss. Uh, 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.270 The Last Jewel. Really, really good. But we talked about 0:05:34.270 --> 0:05:36.760 this Napoleon. Not as good. I don't have super high 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:38.710 hopes for this, but I thought the trailer looked fun. 0:05:38.710 --> 0:05:42.420 But yeah, two bits that worried me. One. what you 0:05:42.420 --> 0:05:45.810 just said. Mel Russell's not in this film, and he's 0:05:45.810 --> 0:05:48.780 very upset about not being in this film, so using 0:05:48.779 --> 0:05:51.150 him and his story so heavily feels like a bit 0:05:51.150 --> 0:05:55.440 unfair to to rusty. The other thing I'm doubling down 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:59.340 on the Paul Mescal, uh, situation here. I'm not saying 0:05:59.339 --> 0:06:01.529 that he's not a good actor, but, you know, we 0:06:01.529 --> 0:06:06.500 talk about women actresses who have, like, you know, that 0:06:06.500 --> 0:06:10.430 kind of meme of a period film with a woman actress. 0:06:10.430 --> 0:06:12.650 And the line is like, I can't believe her because 0:06:12.650 --> 0:06:15.260 she's like, seen Instagram to talk about this with like Elle, 0:06:15.260 --> 0:06:18.050 Elle Fanning and stuff. They're like, this just doesn't make sense. 0:06:18.050 --> 0:06:20.540 She's got like a face and a look for a 0:06:20.540 --> 0:06:23.300 modern environment. I feel like Paul Mescal has that too. Like, 0:06:23.300 --> 0:06:26.510 this is a guy who has just left Laneway Festival 0:06:26.510 --> 0:06:29.539 and walked into the set of Gladiator two. It doesn't 0:06:29.540 --> 0:06:30.489 really work for me. 0:06:30.490 --> 0:06:32.859 Yes, I completely agree. Like he just we kind of 0:06:32.860 --> 0:06:35.680 spoke about this on text, like Russell at least looked 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.890 like rough. And, you know, I could believe that he was, 0:06:38.890 --> 0:06:42.010 you know, a slave that came good. Whereas Paul Mescal 0:06:42.010 --> 0:06:44.859 just doesn't have like, he seriously, he basically made us 0:06:44.860 --> 0:06:47.229 be wearing the fucking short shorts. Like, it just doesn't. 0:06:47.260 --> 0:06:50.590 Fully, fully. He somehow managed to parlay the short, short 0:06:50.620 --> 0:06:52.239 thing into a movie where he can show off his 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:56.620 legs and his manicured beard, which doesn't feel era appropriate, 0:06:56.620 --> 0:06:57.880 I'm sorry to say. Yeah, I. 0:06:57.880 --> 0:06:59.469 Feel like this is one of those cases where, like, 0:06:59.470 --> 0:07:02.110 the kind of paratext around him is going to influence 0:07:02.110 --> 0:07:04.870 how we view the film. And maybe it wasn't the 0:07:04.870 --> 0:07:07.900 wisest casting choice, but then who would have you like? 0:07:07.900 --> 0:07:09.790 Who would you prefer to see as a gladiator apart 0:07:09.790 --> 0:07:10.630 from each other? 0:07:11.290 --> 0:07:13.030 I mean, Osman would be a great casting. Probably. 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:14.380 Probably more appropriate. 0:07:14.380 --> 0:07:16.060 To be honest. I know someone that's like a bit 0:07:16.060 --> 0:07:18.700 like ugly. Beautiful. Like Jesse Plemons would be good. Like, 0:07:18.700 --> 0:07:20.890 stick that motherfucker in Gladiator. Yes. 0:07:21.130 --> 0:07:22.900 Okay, I like yeah, I can see that. 0:07:22.900 --> 0:07:25.930 That's a great, great call. The other trailer that dropped 0:07:25.930 --> 0:07:27.520 this week that I got excited about. I don't think 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.730 I've talked to you guys about it yet. F1 starring 0:07:30.730 --> 0:07:32.260 Brad Pitt, Red. 0:07:32.260 --> 0:07:36.430 Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, Aston, now McLaren all have a speed 0:07:36.430 --> 0:07:39.970 on the straights. Our shot is battling in the turns. 0:07:39.970 --> 0:07:42.340 We need to build our car for combat. 0:07:42.810 --> 0:07:45.060 How am I supposed to make that safe? 0:07:45.090 --> 0:07:46.350 Who said anything about safe? 0:07:58.230 --> 0:08:01.410 Directed by Joseph Kosinski, who did Top Gun Maverick, which 0:08:01.410 --> 0:08:04.710 was an awesome, awesome, awesome film. The trailer didn't like 0:08:04.710 --> 0:08:07.340 reveal a lot. There was like, a lot of Queen 0:08:07.340 --> 0:08:11.660 and just cars racing around. Apparently they filmed a lot 0:08:11.660 --> 0:08:14.930 of this film at actual Grand Prix like around the World. 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.270 I'm not a huge F1 head, but I've been to 0:08:17.270 --> 0:08:19.700 the Grand Prix, I enjoy it. I really like Brad Pitt, 0:08:19.700 --> 0:08:23.030 I like sports films. This looks pretty fun. How you 0:08:23.030 --> 0:08:24.560 guys finding the vibes on this one? 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.070 I was shocked about how little this trailer revealed about 0:08:28.070 --> 0:08:30.200 the film. I think Brad has like one line in 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.439 it and then the rest of it is just car shots. 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.410 I kept waiting for like, the plot to be shown. Um, 0:08:35.410 --> 0:08:37.959 I'm excited about this. I like F1 films, I like 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.059 the F1, love the grid walk he was on. Actually, 0:08:40.059 --> 0:08:41.890 I saw them chasing Brad Pitt on the grid walk 0:08:41.890 --> 0:08:45.130 just over the weekend. I'm um. I'm excited about this film. 0:08:45.130 --> 0:08:46.030 I think it will be good. 0:08:46.030 --> 0:08:47.350 Yeah, I think so too. I from what I could 0:08:47.350 --> 0:08:50.020 piece together, like from the trailer, it seems like. So 0:08:50.170 --> 0:08:52.720 Javier Bardem obviously plays like a team principal, which I think. 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:52.900 Is. 0:08:53.350 --> 0:08:56.760 Really good, really good casting. Like he looks like that, 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:58.590 but and then what? So it seems like Brad is 0:08:58.590 --> 0:09:00.960 maybe the older driver, and there's that young dude that 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.300 we see in the teaser trailer who's like, looks like, 0:09:03.300 --> 0:09:05.520 you know, kind of the Lewis Hamilton superstar, I'm guessing. 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.100 And the films produced or ep'd by Lewis Hamilton. So 0:09:08.100 --> 0:09:10.199 I think he's putting a bit of himself in there. Yeah. 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:11.820 Right. So I mean, like, I don't know, I think 0:09:11.820 --> 0:09:13.679 Brad Pitt is such a funny one right now. He's 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:15.030 at a stage of his career where he's just kind 0:09:15.030 --> 0:09:18.179 of like doing whatever he probably wants to spend time doing, 0:09:18.179 --> 0:09:20.270 and this very much seems like that. But yeah, I mean, 0:09:20.270 --> 0:09:23.000 I am a big Brad guy, too, in news that 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.880 will shock nobody. So I will definitely go and see this. Yeah, 0:09:25.910 --> 0:09:26.119 a lot of. 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.550 People saying he's too old to play an F1 driver 0:09:28.550 --> 0:09:30.650 and I like I mean firstly it's a movie like 0:09:30.650 --> 0:09:33.439 relax everyone, take a deep breath. Tom Cruise is too 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.199 old to be a Top Gun pilot. That's also the case. 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:38.359 But I think his character is supposed to be like 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.000 a retired driver who comes out of retirement to help 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:43.510 train a new. But that's a cool story. That's like 0:09:43.510 --> 0:09:46.510 a framework that I'm into, like a creed, sort of, 0:09:46.540 --> 0:09:47.620 you know, thing going on. 0:09:47.620 --> 0:09:50.080 Imagine the insurance overheads on getting Brad Pitt to be 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.180 allowed to drive an F1 car. But I mean, if 0:09:52.179 --> 0:09:54.340 Nicole Kidman has taught us anything, we'll talk about her shortly. 0:09:54.340 --> 0:09:56.679 You're never too old to play something that doesn't. 0:09:57.070 --> 0:09:59.170 You never too old to make your dreams come true. 0:09:59.200 --> 0:09:59.680 Correct. 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:01.599 Well, I mean, let's get to that one today. Today 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:03.490 on the show, we're going to talk about something I've 0:10:03.490 --> 0:10:06.219 wanted to discuss for a while, and that is kind 0:10:06.220 --> 0:10:08.449 of what the hell is going on with Australian music 0:10:08.450 --> 0:10:12.109 right now. The Aria charts show that Australian artists are 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:16.160 regularly struggling to break into the top 50. The biggest 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.490 Australian acts that are breaking in are acts from like 40, 0:10:19.490 --> 0:10:23.689 50 years ago, like AC, DC and crowded House. Generally speaking, 0:10:23.690 --> 0:10:26.990 it's very, very hard for local, younger, up and coming, 0:10:26.990 --> 0:10:31.059 even successful acts to get recognition, to get airplay, to 0:10:31.059 --> 0:10:34.120 get featured on streaming platforms, to sell tickets to shows. 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:35.410 We're going to take a look at what's going on 0:10:35.410 --> 0:10:38.500 and what could be done to shift things a little bit. 0:10:38.530 --> 0:10:40.480 We're also going to take a look at the second 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.480 half of the Bear season three, whether our views on 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.720 this season have shifted as we make our way through 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.719 the show. But first up, you alluded to this Thomas 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.050 Nicole Kidman, something we got to talk about earlier this year. 0:10:53.050 --> 0:10:56.250 Amazon gave us the idea of you, the age gap 0:10:56.250 --> 0:11:00.660 romantic comedy starring Anne Hathaway and Nicholas Galitzine. I thought 0:11:00.660 --> 0:11:02.850 it was fine. A lot of people didn't like it. 0:11:02.850 --> 0:11:05.910 But yeah, just, you know, it's a it's a light, cheap, 0:11:05.910 --> 0:11:10.770 fun comedy from from Amazon. And a couple of weeks ago, 0:11:10.770 --> 0:11:13.980 Netflix gave us their version of what is literally the 0:11:13.980 --> 0:11:17.610 same story. Essentially, it's a family Affair stars Nicole Kidman 0:11:17.610 --> 0:11:21.500 and Zac Efron. It's another age gap romantic comedy, where 0:11:21.500 --> 0:11:24.380 Nicole Kidman plays an older woman who has a meet 0:11:24.380 --> 0:11:28.160 cute with a famous younger man. They start dating. Drama ensues. 0:11:28.190 --> 0:11:30.710 The film went to number one pretty much straight away 0:11:30.710 --> 0:11:34.069 on Netflix. This is a very cursed film. I have 0:11:34.070 --> 0:11:37.040 to say. I felt quite grim about the state of 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:40.969 the world and of cinema watching this movie. Let's talk 0:11:40.970 --> 0:11:43.800 about it. Well, what were your guys top line reactions 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:45.180 to A family affair? 0:11:45.210 --> 0:11:47.579 I thought a family affair made the idea of you 0:11:47.580 --> 0:11:50.760 look like a nuanced and poignant movie. Yes. 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:51.900 Thank you, thank you. 0:11:51.929 --> 0:11:54.000 Which I didn't think at the time. But now, in comparison, 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:57.960 the idea of you wasn't so bad. I agree with you. Also, 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:01.439 I think I'm very confused because there's lots of think 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.829 pieces going around that are like, these are really great for, 0:12:04.830 --> 0:12:08.990 you know, showing that older women have lives and can 0:12:08.990 --> 0:12:12.770 have sexual desire and rediscover themselves. Like, I think we've 0:12:12.770 --> 0:12:15.380 all been seduced by this because I don't actually know 0:12:15.380 --> 0:12:18.650 if that's what's really going on here. I mean, the 0:12:18.650 --> 0:12:21.380 women in this in both of the shows, a they're 0:12:21.380 --> 0:12:24.859 a certain type of woman. Like they essentially function as 0:12:24.860 --> 0:12:27.860 like authenticators for the man, like they're the ones who 0:12:27.890 --> 0:12:31.100 can show who they really are to themselves, but then 0:12:31.100 --> 0:12:33.459 they're also the same type of woman that's allowed to 0:12:33.460 --> 0:12:37.059 experience this kind of love affair. They're like both artists 0:12:37.059 --> 0:12:40.630 or in the art space. Anne Hathaway was a curator, and, um, 0:12:40.990 --> 0:12:45.160 Nicole Kidman is a Pulitzer Prize winning writer. Um, so 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.340 I guess that's suggesting that they're in open minded communities, 0:12:48.340 --> 0:12:51.520 and then they're both kind of recovering from either a 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.120 husband that's passed away or a traumatic relationship. So they're, 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:56.670 you know, it's not like this is what they do 0:12:56.670 --> 0:12:59.370 all the time. This is an exceptional moment. And then 0:12:59.370 --> 0:13:01.980 they're both have to have daughters who can be like, yeah, 0:13:01.980 --> 0:13:05.309 but they're still maternal, right? Like they're still anchored in 0:13:05.309 --> 0:13:08.429 their in their motherhood. Um, I don't know. Yeah. I 0:13:08.429 --> 0:13:11.130 just think these things are really problematic. And the whole 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.500 basis of them is that we're meant to experience shock 0:13:13.500 --> 0:13:17.280 at this relationship, which in itself is kind of problematic. Anyway. 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:18.929 I think they've dressed it up all glossy, and they're 0:13:18.929 --> 0:13:22.490 telling us that this is empowering and good stuff, but 0:13:22.490 --> 0:13:23.960 I just don't think it is. 0:13:24.470 --> 0:13:26.810 I mean, that's a super smart take. I was basically like, 0:13:26.809 --> 0:13:28.970 Is Kathy Bates in Money Trouble? 0:13:30.350 --> 0:13:31.370 Like, is she a gambler? 0:13:31.370 --> 0:13:33.710 I could see her, like slapping the slot machine. What 0:13:33.710 --> 0:13:36.740 is she doing in this movie? And even every scene 0:13:36.740 --> 0:13:39.020 she has, I think she's like, what am I doing 0:13:39.020 --> 0:13:42.920 in this movie? Uh, it was a very strange use of, like. 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:44.459 I don't know if either of you guys have seen 0:13:44.460 --> 0:13:45.540 the paper boy. 0:13:45.570 --> 0:13:49.050 Oh, yeah. Great. That was another romantic drama between Nicole. 0:13:49.050 --> 0:13:51.150 And so they had, like, a vibe in that. That 0:13:51.150 --> 0:13:54.060 was a very different tone, that film. And, like, it's 0:13:54.059 --> 0:13:56.640 just so strange to drop in, you know, like Kathy Bates, 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.490 Nicole Kidman, Zac Efron, each in their own right, pretty 0:13:59.490 --> 0:14:02.340 good at what they do and then just completely leave 0:14:02.340 --> 0:14:06.059 them floundering. This movie, it felt like it almost was 0:14:06.059 --> 0:14:08.570 close to me. It was like an Irish wish type 0:14:08.570 --> 0:14:11.059 film the way it was. It was like so aggressively lit. 0:14:11.059 --> 0:14:14.030 Everything felt fake. It, it may as well have been 0:14:14.030 --> 0:14:18.110 like shot completely on like studio lots. It was just so, 0:14:18.110 --> 0:14:21.020 so weird. The writing was appalling and like, what's so 0:14:21.020 --> 0:14:23.570 strange is that later this year, Nicole is going to 0:14:23.570 --> 0:14:26.810 do her first A24 film, Baby Girl, which is like 0:14:26.810 --> 0:14:29.030 a very similar setup. She plays like a high powered 0:14:29.030 --> 0:14:32.080 CEO who has an affair with a young intern. It's 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.000 going to be like Harris Dickinson from The Iron Claw. 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.090 And like, you know, that movie will be like, I mean, 0:14:37.090 --> 0:14:40.120 presumably ten times better. It's just. Yeah, I mean, it 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:41.770 is kind of I think in this day and age, 0:14:41.770 --> 0:14:43.570 we have to see these films as a gift because 0:14:43.570 --> 0:14:46.630 it's rare that you get such a bad, you know, token. 0:14:46.780 --> 0:14:48.850 It's rare you get such a bad product that we've 0:14:48.850 --> 0:14:51.340 spoken so much about the whole mid era. This was 0:14:51.340 --> 0:14:53.470 truly a bad gift from Netflix. 0:14:53.470 --> 0:14:55.600 My theory on the Nicole Kidman is that I think 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:58.380 she has played a string of kind of quote unquote, 0:14:58.380 --> 0:15:03.330 prestige TV characters where she's often, ah, uh, plays a, a, 0:15:03.330 --> 0:15:06.930 a woman who's going through it, who's complicated and is 0:15:06.930 --> 0:15:11.190 in complicated relationships. I'm thinking of expats, big little lies. Um, 0:15:11.190 --> 0:15:13.860 there was that crime, one she was in as well. Um, 0:15:13.860 --> 0:15:16.290 and now maybe she's trying to do a rebrand to 0:15:16.290 --> 0:15:20.060 show that Nicole Kidman can do these softer, funnier roles. 0:15:20.060 --> 0:15:23.300 In terms of the overall structural issues with this film 0:15:23.300 --> 0:15:25.220 and these types of films. Mel, I couldn't agree with 0:15:25.220 --> 0:15:28.040 you more. I think they're trying to, like, convince us 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.680 that we should feel good and like, be stoked that 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.010 they're showing us older women being sexually active when these 0:15:34.010 --> 0:15:37.040 are kind of some of the most weirdly morally repressed 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:39.950 films around. I mean, at least the idea of you 0:15:39.950 --> 0:15:42.950 had like multiple attempts to show Anne Hathaway, like trying 0:15:42.950 --> 0:15:46.050 to be sexy. This film has one sort of sex 0:15:46.050 --> 0:15:48.240 scene that is interrupted by the daughter, and the rest 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.930 of it is just her feeling guilty about the whole thing. 0:15:51.930 --> 0:15:54.150 I don't think the politics of these movies is something 0:15:54.180 --> 0:15:57.900 to get particularly excited about, but then the actual specific 0:15:57.900 --> 0:16:00.270 mechanics of this, like the first scene where we meet 0:16:00.270 --> 0:16:05.040 Nicole Kidman and Kathy Bates, it's written like the script 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.360 was done by I. The performances are ridiculous. The setup 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:12.620 is ridiculous. In that shot, there are something like two Oscars, 0:16:12.620 --> 0:16:16.820 four Emmys, eight Golden Globes and a BAFTA. And I'm 0:16:16.820 --> 0:16:21.230 just like, what have we done to deserve this? Right now? This. 0:16:21.230 --> 0:16:25.070 And it's obviously a money play from everyone involved and 0:16:25.070 --> 0:16:28.310 they're allowed to get that bag. But at what point 0:16:28.310 --> 0:16:34.570 do we stand up and say actors and streamers? Making 0:16:34.570 --> 0:16:39.010 stuff like this devalues the craft of cinema to such 0:16:39.010 --> 0:16:43.000 an extent that audience expectations over time erode, and that 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.640 they don't understand what a good film is anymore. We 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.010 end up with just 100 of these things a year. 0:16:48.010 --> 0:16:50.020 Like this is why I say it's cursed. I don't 0:16:50.020 --> 0:16:52.180 think it's just a bad movie. I think in 20 0:16:52.180 --> 0:16:54.790 years time, when people write about how Hollywood and the 0:16:54.790 --> 0:16:58.290 world devolved into the grim state that it will inevitably 0:16:58.290 --> 0:17:01.170 devolve into, they'll be like a family affair was was 0:17:01.170 --> 0:17:02.970 a key moment in human history. 0:17:03.030 --> 0:17:06.240 Let's also not forget all of Zach's Kids Teen Choice 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:08.190 Awards that he brings to the table. 0:17:08.850 --> 0:17:11.250 Well, okay. And so speaking of Zach, the other thing 0:17:11.250 --> 0:17:12.900 about this movie and I want to be careful how 0:17:12.900 --> 0:17:14.280 I talk about this one. 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:15.510 I can talk about this fucked up face. 0:17:16.170 --> 0:17:16.410 Is. 0:17:17.550 --> 0:17:20.010 Zac Efron. Looks he looks unusual. And, you know, he 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.700 he did have an accident, and he had, like, reconstructive 0:17:22.700 --> 0:17:27.110 jaw surgery. And his body and his face. It looks unusual, right. 0:17:27.109 --> 0:17:30.320 And I would say he looks significantly older than his 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.320 36 years. And I would say Nicole Kidman looks quite 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.800 remarkable for her 50 years. So this is an age 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.500 gap comedy where we're supposed to be like, Nicole Kidman 0:17:39.500 --> 0:17:41.359 is an older woman and Zac Efron is the younger 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.210 like hot guy. She looks younger than him. And a 0:17:44.210 --> 0:17:46.720 lot of key points in this movie that just deflates 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.119 the entire concept of the film. Surely I'm not the 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.520 only one who felt kind of weird about that. 0:17:51.609 --> 0:17:54.250 I think on a base level it just was distracting. Like, 0:17:54.250 --> 0:17:55.990 I know he, you know, he had an accident and 0:17:55.990 --> 0:17:58.570 then he had jaw surgery or whatever, but like, I mean, 0:17:58.570 --> 0:18:01.150 I suspect in only my opinion that he like, added 0:18:01.150 --> 0:18:03.160 a couple of things to the to the jaw surgery. 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:04.750 Just got a tune up and I just found it 0:18:04.750 --> 0:18:07.090 really distracting. Like he doesn't, you know, we had like 0:18:07.090 --> 0:18:09.260 that real run of like, heaps of Zac Efron movies. 0:18:09.260 --> 0:18:11.450 And he was great, like really funny all the time, 0:18:11.450 --> 0:18:14.449 like bad neighbors, all that stuff. And then like, now 0:18:14.450 --> 0:18:17.330 he's just a bit it's like he just looks very different. 0:18:17.330 --> 0:18:19.760 And in a movie where he's playing like the hot, 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.490 attractive Hollywood star and like, his aesthetic is a big 0:18:22.490 --> 0:18:25.370 part of the character, I don't know, it then becomes 0:18:25.369 --> 0:18:27.740 a part of what makes the movie not work. 0:18:27.740 --> 0:18:30.080 We should pull the Google data on like the spike 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.330 of the search. How old is Zac Efron? Because that 0:18:32.330 --> 0:18:34.240 is exactly what I did when I turned this on, 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:36.700 because I was very confused. 0:18:37.090 --> 0:18:39.850 Yeah, it's also sad because he was in a really 0:18:39.850 --> 0:18:43.150 good and again, criminally underwatched film from the last year, 0:18:43.150 --> 0:18:47.920 The Iron Claw, an A24 movie, Sean Durkin's film about 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:51.430 the real life wrestling family, the Von Von Erichs. And 0:18:51.430 --> 0:18:53.710 he was really good in that, like, still looked unusual, 0:18:53.710 --> 0:18:55.419 but it made sense for him to be so built 0:18:55.420 --> 0:18:58.170 playing like a wrestler. So all of these people can 0:18:58.170 --> 0:19:00.240 do great stuff. And you mentioned the Cole film. She 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:02.489 will do great stuff. And yeah, look, as usual, I 0:19:02.490 --> 0:19:04.560 could just be being overdramatic and no one will ever 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.050 think about this film again. But it does leave you 0:19:07.050 --> 0:19:11.220 feeling like a little bit weird inside that this exists 0:19:11.220 --> 0:19:13.800 and probably cost millions and millions of dollars at a 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:17.639 time when so much of the entertainment industry is struggling 0:19:17.670 --> 0:19:21.080 to make ends meet, it just doesn't feel like the 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.540 budgets are working in the direction they should be. 0:19:23.540 --> 0:19:25.729 It's very funny that she's now she's basically. Nicole is 0:19:25.730 --> 0:19:28.760 working with all of the Iron Claw family members except 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:29.930 for Jeremy Allen White. 0:19:30.140 --> 0:19:31.040 Yeah, yeah. 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:31.669 There's your Segway. 0:19:32.060 --> 0:19:36.590 Speaking of Jeremy Allen White, uh, let's talk about the 0:19:36.590 --> 0:19:41.240 second half of the Bear season three. Quick recap. We 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.600 didn't have a great time with the first five episodes 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.939 of this show. We thought they were largely treading water. 0:19:47.940 --> 0:19:50.369 There wasn't a lot of plot or character development. There 0:19:50.369 --> 0:19:53.490 was heaps of filler, not a lot of ideas. Annoyed 0:19:53.490 --> 0:19:58.020 by some of the stylistic and experimental choices we have 0:19:58.020 --> 0:20:00.030 not yet talked about episode six of ten, which we're 0:20:00.030 --> 0:20:01.949 going to talk about now. And those spoilers for all 0:20:01.950 --> 0:20:04.590 of season three of The Bear. I want to get 0:20:04.590 --> 0:20:06.780 into it with you guys. But one of the things 0:20:06.780 --> 0:20:10.070 that occurred to me about the second half of the show, 0:20:10.070 --> 0:20:15.230 which generally speaking, I found significantly better than the first half, 0:20:15.230 --> 0:20:18.410 this show has done that rare thing where it's kind 0:20:18.410 --> 0:20:22.129 of accidentally struck gold with a format and a setting 0:20:22.130 --> 0:20:25.400 and characters that are actually, at their best, quite charming, 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.429 quite fun, quite relatable, quite interesting, but it kind of 0:20:28.430 --> 0:20:29.750 almost doesn't know what to do with it. And you 0:20:29.750 --> 0:20:33.040 think about shows like The Office, which is a sitcom. 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:34.300 It's very different to the show in a lot of ways. 0:20:34.300 --> 0:20:36.850 But the thing that worked about The Office is you 0:20:36.850 --> 0:20:39.100 just kind of care about these characters and whether they 0:20:39.100 --> 0:20:42.190 are having fun, whether they are having some emotional moments. 0:20:42.190 --> 0:20:44.620 You don't care about the paper company of it all, 0:20:44.619 --> 0:20:46.899 you don't care about the mechanics of Dunder Mifflin. You're 0:20:46.900 --> 0:20:49.780 just like, I want to see this character explore their 0:20:49.780 --> 0:20:52.330 feelings with whatever character. And that's really interesting. And I 0:20:52.330 --> 0:20:55.000 think this show, particularly in the second half, is at 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.420 its best when there's just great characters who've been built 0:20:57.420 --> 0:21:00.870 up to be really rich and interesting, talking about life 0:21:00.869 --> 0:21:04.290 and family and marriage and these ideas. But every time 0:21:04.290 --> 0:21:08.160 we kind of have fun in those spaces, the show 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:11.669 pulls us back to the kitchen and Carmy and the 0:21:11.670 --> 0:21:14.970 world of fine dining that I think just like, deflates 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:17.820 all the excitement and the fun and the energy of 0:21:17.820 --> 0:21:20.010 the show. And I think even though I thought the 0:21:20.010 --> 0:21:23.100 second half was better, it just didn't get that mix right. 0:21:23.100 --> 0:21:25.530 And ultimately, I felt like this was one of the 0:21:25.530 --> 0:21:28.920 most disappointing series of TV that I've seen this year, 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:32.670 because the expectations were high and it just didn't really deliver. 0:21:32.670 --> 0:21:36.090 So sorry to say I felt pretty sad about it. 0:21:36.330 --> 0:21:37.530 I want to know what you guys think. 0:21:37.530 --> 0:21:40.050 I think that's really well put. I think we were 0:21:40.050 --> 0:21:42.659 all love bombed by this show. It started out as 0:21:42.660 --> 0:21:46.020 something particularly you, Thomas Mitchell. It started out as something 0:21:46.020 --> 0:21:49.889 really great and then it just couldn't deliver on keep 0:21:49.890 --> 0:21:51.750 delivering that. And we were all left being like, but 0:21:51.750 --> 0:21:54.630 you were something different, right? We like we were right 0:21:54.630 --> 0:21:56.159 to fall in love with you in the first place. 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.550 But yeah, I think the second half did get better. 0:21:59.550 --> 0:22:03.000 But to me the tone of it was so inconsistent 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.149 and the pacing of the episodes so varied. Not in 0:22:06.150 --> 0:22:08.880 a good way. It was almost like each episode was 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:11.540 a vignette. But then they didn't all stand together in 0:22:11.540 --> 0:22:15.230 some episodes stood up better than others. It started to 0:22:15.230 --> 0:22:17.840 get a bit more momentum going in this second half. 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:20.060 There were a few more plot things that developed and 0:22:20.060 --> 0:22:22.340 there were great cameos, but I don't think it was 0:22:22.340 --> 0:22:25.219 enough to save it. And even the standout episodes to 0:22:25.220 --> 0:22:27.470 me were still, they were great, but they were still 0:22:27.470 --> 0:22:30.859 kind of very predictable bear territory. 0:22:30.859 --> 0:22:32.869 Yeah, I know, again, like I was, I was so 0:22:32.869 --> 0:22:34.840 prepared to like the back half and I did like 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:36.640 it better. But it is funny, you know, that we 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:39.820 obviously did part one last week and, you know, always 0:22:39.820 --> 0:22:43.300 curious to get a vibe on what everyone's feeling and like, 0:22:43.300 --> 0:22:45.970 you know, I shared the podcast on my Instagram and like, 0:22:45.970 --> 0:22:48.490 literally I kind of had maybe like 20 replies and 0:22:48.490 --> 0:22:51.340 not one person was like, ah, I'm really loving this season. 0:22:51.340 --> 0:22:54.340 Like everyone is feeling the same. I think, like there's 0:22:54.340 --> 0:22:56.830 just a disappointment because we are in a funny time 0:22:56.830 --> 0:22:59.189 as well when there's not heaps of buzzy TV shows around, 0:22:59.190 --> 0:23:00.930 like we're all kind of hanging our hat on this 0:23:00.930 --> 0:23:02.580 and then like The White Lotus next year, the White 0:23:02.580 --> 0:23:04.140 Lotus next year is bad. I'm going to be like 0:23:04.140 --> 0:23:05.310 just completely depressed. 0:23:06.150 --> 0:23:06.600 But like. 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:10.169 Everyone was psyched for this. And especially I think the 0:23:10.170 --> 0:23:13.920 trajectory of the show in between seasons has just like completely, 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:15.989 you know, all the stars are really famous now. And 0:23:15.990 --> 0:23:18.659 so everyone was just like, so ready. And then, you know, 0:23:18.660 --> 0:23:21.480 it was probably setting itself up for disappointment, uh, Uh, 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:24.720 and even I think going into the second half, having 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:26.940 read so much about like, oh, you know, the napkins 0:23:26.940 --> 0:23:29.220 episode by Ayo is going to be great. Ice chips 0:23:29.220 --> 0:23:31.590 is a really great two hander. I still don't know 0:23:31.590 --> 0:23:34.439 if it really like lifted the season for me. Everything 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:36.750 that the bear did so well in seasons one and two, 0:23:36.750 --> 0:23:39.840 all of the tricks have just been completely like mismanaged 0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:44.100 or overused. And I just think, yeah, like the show 0:23:44.100 --> 0:23:47.400 has lost its way. It's forgotten. Like what makes it joyful. 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:48.869 And I never really thought I'd say this, but, like, 0:23:48.869 --> 0:23:50.580 I feel like Osmond a few times you've been like, 0:23:50.580 --> 0:23:52.859 would this be better as a 20 episode like office 0:23:52.859 --> 0:23:56.040 style comedy? And I'm actually kind of agreeing with you now. Maybe, 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:58.530 maybe that's where the show could really shine, but instead 0:23:58.530 --> 0:24:01.500 it's become fixated on like being too many things, like 0:24:01.500 --> 0:24:05.250 the trauma drama and a workplace drama and a commentary on, 0:24:05.250 --> 0:24:07.410 you know, the state of fine dining and, you know, 0:24:07.410 --> 0:24:11.630 restaurants in general. It's just so convoluted and hamstrung by 0:24:11.630 --> 0:24:13.250 trying to do too many things. Yeah, I think. 0:24:13.250 --> 0:24:15.800 They start again and do a Sydney spin off like that. 0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:17.360 Would that's what I think we all need. 0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:20.330 It's so funny for a show that is about fine 0:24:20.330 --> 0:24:23.600 dining and restaurants, every time they talk about that, it's 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:25.640 when I lose the most amount of interest. And we 0:24:25.640 --> 0:24:27.379 talked about this last week. I couldn't be more in 0:24:27.380 --> 0:24:29.180 the bag for this. As a guy who loves prestige 0:24:29.180 --> 0:24:32.480 television and loves fine dining so much that I co-own 0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:36.430 a fine dining restaurant, But the show's treatment of that 0:24:36.430 --> 0:24:40.990 stuff is so grating and self-indulgent. Honestly, like the finale 0:24:40.990 --> 0:24:43.899 of this season took away a lot of the momentum 0:24:43.900 --> 0:24:46.000 that I thought the last few episodes had built up 0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:49.900 the first half of that finale, just being these real world, 0:24:49.900 --> 0:24:53.140 top tier chefs just sitting around a table, giving us 0:24:53.140 --> 0:24:55.750 the same vibe on fine dining that we've heard for 0:24:55.750 --> 0:24:59.310 three seasons. This is about family. This is about cooking 0:24:59.340 --> 0:25:01.919 to make people happy. This is about service. It's like 0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:05.159 we know that. Like, I don't care about the woman 0:25:05.160 --> 0:25:07.439 who owns Milk Bar. Lecture me on this stuff. And 0:25:07.440 --> 0:25:10.409 I think the other thing about the show's treatment of 0:25:10.410 --> 0:25:13.439 fine dining is all of these ideas about it being 0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:18.030 about hospitality and care and nurturing. The kinds of voices 0:25:18.030 --> 0:25:21.570 in the show are these top tier, super rich, elite 0:25:21.590 --> 0:25:24.620 chefs who run chain restaurants all around the country. It's like, 0:25:24.619 --> 0:25:27.080 that's not really what they practice, so it just feels 0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:31.609 like quite hollow to me. I can't get excited at 0:25:31.609 --> 0:25:34.460 all about the conversations in the show about the actual 0:25:34.460 --> 0:25:35.810 world of Restauranting. 0:25:35.810 --> 0:25:41.840 That final episode was quite shocking in how terrible it was. 0:25:41.840 --> 0:25:44.780 I genuinely thought I was like, has the Fine Dining 0:25:44.780 --> 0:25:47.969 Institute of America sponsored this episode or something. 0:25:47.970 --> 0:25:48.960 Like right, right. 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:50.850 At some point it became like just a, a lobbying 0:25:50.850 --> 0:25:53.190 attempt for a group of like elite restaurateurs. 0:25:53.190 --> 0:25:56.010 Yeah, yeah. And at the same time as they're trying to, like, 0:25:56.010 --> 0:25:58.230 promote the benefits of fine dining, they're trying to give 0:25:58.230 --> 0:26:00.840 us the narrative of how traumatized Carmy is, that he 0:26:00.840 --> 0:26:03.540 has to blow up everyone else's life because he's had 0:26:03.540 --> 0:26:05.580 such a horrible time learning how to, I don't know, 0:26:05.580 --> 0:26:08.670 cross a chicken's legs or whatever that whole thing was about. 0:26:08.670 --> 0:26:12.440 I just thought that last episode really was the epitome 0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:15.230 of what was wrong with the whole season its reliance 0:26:15.230 --> 0:26:20.389 on collage, its melodrama, its musical kind of heavy handedness. 0:26:20.390 --> 0:26:22.430 All of those things that we discussed from the first 0:26:22.430 --> 0:26:24.470 half were here in the second half, and then they 0:26:24.470 --> 0:26:26.300 just put the little cherry on top of the cake 0:26:26.300 --> 0:26:27.800 with this final episode. 0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:29.840 Yeah. And that's what I mean in terms of like, 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:31.909 who is this show for now? Like I feel like 0:26:31.910 --> 0:26:34.040 in the first two seasons, you know, I don't know, 0:26:34.060 --> 0:26:35.740 none of us are really, like, super familiar. I mean, 0:26:35.740 --> 0:26:38.530 maybe you are Osment with the, like, Chicago dining scene, 0:26:38.530 --> 0:26:41.080 but there were like, you know, little snippets of people 0:26:41.080 --> 0:26:42.970 in the first two seasons that were like winks and 0:26:42.970 --> 0:26:44.620 they were like, well used. And everyone was like, oh, 0:26:44.619 --> 0:26:47.890 that's cool. That's like insidery. And now it's gone the 0:26:47.890 --> 0:26:49.330 complete wrong way. And it's like, I don't know, he's 0:26:49.330 --> 0:26:51.580 Christopher Storer. He and his sister have like a deep, 0:26:51.580 --> 0:26:54.070 you know, food background. Is he just like trying to 0:26:54.070 --> 0:26:56.350 impress these people and like, win them over by putting 0:26:56.350 --> 0:26:58.290 them in these like really famous show because it no 0:26:58.290 --> 0:27:00.270 longer felt like that was for the audience, that felt 0:27:00.270 --> 0:27:02.580 like it was for the people in the show to 0:27:02.580 --> 0:27:05.190 be like, you know, like it's weird circle jerk thing, 0:27:05.190 --> 0:27:07.560 which is like, not what the bear has ever been about. 0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:09.540 And like, you know, I do think all of that 0:27:09.540 --> 0:27:12.210 being said, there are still some really beautiful moments in 0:27:12.210 --> 0:27:13.949 these episodes. And like, I know we're going to talk 0:27:13.950 --> 0:27:16.830 about the episode that was that was great. Like, we, 0:27:16.830 --> 0:27:19.320 you know, to to go back into the world of 0:27:19.320 --> 0:27:21.690 just that one character and get this bottle episode and, 0:27:21.690 --> 0:27:24.110 you know, nothing kind of matches, I guess, like fishes 0:27:24.109 --> 0:27:27.050 or forks from last season. But I still thought the 0:27:27.050 --> 0:27:29.480 journey of Tina was good. And also it convinced me 0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:31.129 once again that the only thing I really want to 0:27:31.130 --> 0:27:34.670 eat at the bear or the beef is the Italian sandwich. 0:27:34.910 --> 0:27:38.240 Mm. Yeah. Let's talk about the stuff that was good. 0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:41.540 Like the Tina episode. I enjoyed it because it was 0:27:41.540 --> 0:27:44.750 a respite from all the wanky circle jerk stuff, and 0:27:44.750 --> 0:27:46.410 it gave me stuff that I kind of didn't know 0:27:46.410 --> 0:27:48.689 that I needed or wanted. But then when I got it, 0:27:48.690 --> 0:27:50.610 I was like, this is actually cool. Like, I didn't 0:27:50.609 --> 0:27:53.220 know anything about how long Tina had been working at 0:27:53.250 --> 0:27:55.619 that restaurant, getting an insight into her life, getting a 0:27:55.619 --> 0:27:58.740 snapshot of just like working class life in America. For 0:27:58.740 --> 0:28:02.040 someone from that kind of background and the the struggles 0:28:02.040 --> 0:28:05.790 that you experienced, the meeting with Jon Bernthal. Like, it's 0:28:05.790 --> 0:28:08.310 so good to see Jon Bernthal in the show. That 0:28:08.310 --> 0:28:10.520 was awesome. Just like 15 minutes of them sitting at 0:28:10.520 --> 0:28:14.060 a table talking about their life, their work, their dreams, 0:28:14.060 --> 0:28:16.700 what they want to achieve that felt like quite meaningful 0:28:16.700 --> 0:28:18.650 and nice and was a really good break from all 0:28:18.650 --> 0:28:22.640 the bullshit of the kami. Oh my God, it's so 0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:24.830 hard to get the wishbone out of the chicken man 0:28:24.830 --> 0:28:25.250 who gives up. 0:28:25.250 --> 0:28:26.990 That's what I mean. Like watching the two of them 0:28:26.990 --> 0:28:29.360 talk like it was. That was like a really beautiful 0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:32.840 human moment when they're like, comparing their shitty days. And he, like, 0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:34.880 goes first and then she goes next. And that's like, 0:28:34.880 --> 0:28:36.709 how many people do that every day when you're like, 0:28:36.710 --> 0:28:38.840 I'm having a bad day. Me too. Like, okay, you download, 0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:41.210 then I'll download. Like, that's the show at its very best. 0:28:41.210 --> 0:28:43.670 You know, you've just got two people in a situation. 0:28:43.670 --> 0:28:45.290 They find their way to one another and then like 0:28:45.290 --> 0:28:48.500 we go from there and it's just so much more relatable. 0:28:48.500 --> 0:28:50.750 So I just thought like that the episode worked really 0:28:50.750 --> 0:28:53.000 well and like, I thought her husband was a great character. 0:28:53.000 --> 0:28:55.100 It just. Yeah, it was it was really nice. And, 0:28:55.100 --> 0:28:57.620 you know, I thought in terms of like a great, 0:28:57.620 --> 0:29:00.190 you know, addition to her CV, the way that like 0:29:00.190 --> 0:29:02.800 the repetition of her of Tina every day, like going 0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:04.360 out to find a job, like the way it was 0:29:04.360 --> 0:29:06.520 cut together, like it looked great. So that to me 0:29:06.520 --> 0:29:07.840 was like the standout. 0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:10.719 Yeah, I think that episode is an achievement. But then 0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:13.390 when you look at it in the season overall, it 0:29:13.390 --> 0:29:15.850 just makes you more confused about what the bear is 0:29:15.850 --> 0:29:17.650 trying to do and be. And I think you're right, 0:29:17.650 --> 0:29:20.470 like the reason it was so welcomed was because we 0:29:20.470 --> 0:29:24.080 just had such a lead up of fairly average episodes, 0:29:24.080 --> 0:29:26.240 without a lot going on. I do think this show 0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:29.360 is like very kind to its characters. There was that 0:29:29.360 --> 0:29:32.690 moment in the In the Tina episode where she says 0:29:32.690 --> 0:29:35.510 something like, she's not, she doesn't, she doesn't attack all 0:29:35.510 --> 0:29:37.610 the younger people who have kind of dismissed her and 0:29:37.610 --> 0:29:40.729 rolled their eyes at her because of her background. She's 0:29:40.730 --> 0:29:42.680 very generous about it, and I do think that is 0:29:42.680 --> 0:29:45.680 something this show does sometimes, for good or for bad, 0:29:45.680 --> 0:29:47.970 that it's kind to its characters. 0:29:47.970 --> 0:29:51.300 Yeah, people are kind of like, uh, victims of circumstance 0:29:51.300 --> 0:29:54.570 and of the structures around them, rather than being individual, 0:29:54.570 --> 0:29:57.660 morally bad people. It's like what Tina is going through 0:29:57.660 --> 0:30:01.440 is a structural readjustment of the Chicago economy, where people 0:30:01.440 --> 0:30:04.260 like her are considered devalued and a whole generation of 0:30:04.260 --> 0:30:07.710 just like young, hyper addicted to work people who don't 0:30:07.710 --> 0:30:09.750 care about it because they're alienated, whatever. That's smart and. 0:30:09.750 --> 0:30:13.460 Interesting. Yeah, definitely. And very traitor with a lot of dignity. 0:30:13.460 --> 0:30:15.170 So I thought that was really good. And then obviously 0:30:15.170 --> 0:30:19.760 the other one was, uh, where sugar has her baby, um, 0:30:20.060 --> 0:30:25.010 which I thought was a very another very moving, powerful episode. 0:30:25.010 --> 0:30:27.020 Yeah, it was funny because I feel like everyone was, 0:30:27.020 --> 0:30:29.150 I guess, waiting for the return of Jamie Lee Curtis, 0:30:29.150 --> 0:30:30.860 that we all knew it was coming. And, you know, 0:30:30.860 --> 0:30:34.040 she was such a standout in fishers. I thought this 0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:36.340 episode was good too. Not quite as like I didn't 0:30:36.340 --> 0:30:38.350 lose my mind over it like everyone else did. I 0:30:38.350 --> 0:30:41.320 think Jamie Lee is so good at playing like manic 0:30:41.320 --> 0:30:44.080 like her. She gets that look in her eyes. Basically, 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:45.970 her and Claire Danes have like, the best crazy eyes 0:30:45.970 --> 0:30:48.550 in the business. But yeah, like, I thought the episode 0:30:48.550 --> 0:30:50.380 was good and and, you know, there was some really 0:30:50.380 --> 0:30:53.890 beautiful moments. But again, it's just like, it feels so 0:30:53.890 --> 0:30:56.920 strange to be sitting here talking about the bear and being, like, 0:30:56.920 --> 0:30:59.320 almost like having to cling on to these two, like 0:30:59.320 --> 0:31:01.960 pretty good episodes as a way of like justifying the 0:31:01.960 --> 0:31:02.770 third season. 0:31:02.770 --> 0:31:04.480 This is the funeral for the bear. Mhm. 0:31:05.890 --> 0:31:07.510 Um, one other bit that I just wanted to talk 0:31:07.510 --> 0:31:10.090 about the two, two bits that are not part of 0:31:10.090 --> 0:31:12.610 those two standalone episodes that I really enjoyed, that I 0:31:12.610 --> 0:31:14.680 also think go to what the show could be at 0:31:14.680 --> 0:31:17.230 its best if it just maybe, maybe part of the 0:31:17.230 --> 0:31:19.930 issue is that Christopher Storer had two critically acclaimed seasons 0:31:19.930 --> 0:31:22.060 of the show, and the network's like, you just do 0:31:22.060 --> 0:31:24.120 whatever you want to do, and he indulged some of 0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:26.460 his instincts when it needed to be pared back a bit. 0:31:26.460 --> 0:31:28.860 The bits that I think it could focus on more 0:31:28.860 --> 0:31:31.200 when the facts who I think have just been in 0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:33.060 the show a bit too much. There's too many facts. 0:31:33.060 --> 0:31:34.950 There's I don't know whether it's about them trying to 0:31:34.950 --> 0:31:37.830 justify their comedy entry at the Emmys, which I think 0:31:37.830 --> 0:31:39.960 is maybe part of it, because there's been this constant 0:31:39.960 --> 0:31:43.350 conversation of how is the bear in the comedy category? 0:31:43.350 --> 0:31:46.080 This is like category fraud. And now they're like, no, no, no, 0:31:46.080 --> 0:31:48.900 it's funny. We've got these funny guys. Generally they they 0:31:48.900 --> 0:31:51.300 didn't do much for me. But when they go to 0:31:51.300 --> 0:31:53.790 visit Claire in the hospital, I thought that was kind 0:31:53.790 --> 0:31:56.430 of interesting. And I think, what do you do with 0:31:56.430 --> 0:31:58.950 a show that for three seasons has been set in 0:31:58.950 --> 0:32:02.670 the same venue, with the same characters? To move things forward, 0:32:02.670 --> 0:32:05.070 you kind of need to push things. You need to 0:32:05.070 --> 0:32:07.980 like introduce new characters or new settings or new drama, 0:32:07.980 --> 0:32:09.930 new tension. And this was an example of that. We're 0:32:09.930 --> 0:32:12.240 in a different space. I didn't love Claire in the 0:32:12.240 --> 0:32:14.490 second season, but I found her quite interesting. Now, two 0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:18.000 characters who've never interacted with her on screen, their dynamic, 0:32:18.000 --> 0:32:21.060 how they're talking about the relationship between her and kami. 0:32:21.150 --> 0:32:22.920 It's kind of funny. It was kind of heartfelt. That 0:32:22.920 --> 0:32:25.380 was really good. And then the other one like that 0:32:25.380 --> 0:32:28.530 was when Richie talks to his ex-wife in the playground. 0:32:28.530 --> 0:32:32.040 I wish more of the season had been Richie and 0:32:32.040 --> 0:32:35.480 his freaking out about the wedding. Basically everything that he 0:32:35.480 --> 0:32:39.050 did was really interesting. Gillian Jacobs is really good. That 0:32:39.050 --> 0:32:43.580 was also really cool. It's new characters pushing old characters 0:32:43.580 --> 0:32:47.300 in certain directions, making them grapple with change. Life circumstances. 0:32:47.300 --> 0:32:50.210 Like that's what's so good about TV as a medium 0:32:50.210 --> 0:32:54.200 is you create characters, you create settings, you think you 0:32:54.200 --> 0:32:56.660 know them, and then you throw challenges their way and 0:32:56.660 --> 0:32:58.310 you see how they fend them off. And when the 0:32:58.310 --> 0:33:01.570 show did that a bit, it was great. Overwhelmingly, the 0:33:01.570 --> 0:33:03.340 show just didn't do it. And it certainly didn't do 0:33:03.340 --> 0:33:05.530 it with Carmy, who is dealing with the same challenge 0:33:05.530 --> 0:33:06.730 he's dealt with his entire life. 0:33:06.730 --> 0:33:08.860 And to have the entire stakes of the season let 0:33:08.860 --> 0:33:11.110 rest on. A review from the Chicago Tribune like that 0:33:11.110 --> 0:33:13.630 just doesn't in this day and age. Like people just 0:33:13.630 --> 0:33:17.140 don't care. Like it's hard to get people to be 0:33:17.140 --> 0:33:19.570 as invested in, like the outcome of that as a 0:33:19.570 --> 0:33:21.640 as it was, for instance, even in the last season 0:33:21.640 --> 0:33:23.510 finale when it was like, you know, Carmy having a 0:33:23.510 --> 0:33:25.730 breakdown and possibly blowing up his relationship as well as 0:33:25.730 --> 0:33:28.340 his relationship with Richie, like, people can get around that. 0:33:28.340 --> 0:33:31.730 Whereas like, you know, cutting on, you know, a Google 0:33:31.730 --> 0:33:34.100 alert that the review from the Chicago Tribune has come 0:33:34.100 --> 0:33:34.520 in like. 0:33:34.760 --> 0:33:38.270 Honestly, what's more stressful is your Google rating dropping from 0:33:38.270 --> 0:33:41.600 like 4.7 to 4.4, because a bunch of racist people 0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:44.270 give you reviews like that is more detrimental to your 0:33:44.270 --> 0:33:47.510 financial bottom line than a review in a legacy newspaper. 0:33:47.510 --> 0:33:50.440 No offense to our wonderful colleagues at Good Food, but 0:33:50.440 --> 0:33:54.580 the economics of restaurants don't really live or die. On 0:33:54.580 --> 0:33:57.400 one review from something like the Chicago Tribune, and as 0:33:57.400 --> 0:33:59.980 if it wasn't already annoying enough to have that be 0:33:59.980 --> 0:34:02.560 the main stakes of the season, you then have uncle 0:34:02.560 --> 0:34:05.410 just be like, hey, by the way, this review is bad. Like, 0:34:05.410 --> 0:34:06.880 I'm going to destroy your restaurant. 0:34:07.120 --> 0:34:08.589 Yeah, that was not necessary. 0:34:09.340 --> 0:34:12.650 I think that you're so right like that. The elements 0:34:12.650 --> 0:34:15.290 where they push the plot forward with characters who weren't 0:34:15.290 --> 0:34:17.930 kami was when it's at its best. And the other 0:34:17.930 --> 0:34:21.830 good storyline was Sydney's wrestling about whether to leave the 0:34:21.830 --> 0:34:25.250 restaurant and go and chase up other opportunities. And considering 0:34:25.250 --> 0:34:28.310 what she's built at the bear and the fine dining 0:34:28.310 --> 0:34:31.370 restaurant versus the potential she has and how to grow, 0:34:31.370 --> 0:34:34.370 how to change, I thought that was also really interesting. Sadly, 0:34:34.370 --> 0:34:37.000 it didn't get developed much. Hopefully it will move on, 0:34:37.000 --> 0:34:39.370 but I'm really glad we've all come around to that. 0:34:39.370 --> 0:34:44.680 The kami character, the emotionally repressed chef. 0:34:44.680 --> 0:34:45.790 Happy to lord this over. 0:34:46.180 --> 0:34:49.630 Like the emotionally repressed chef who can't express himself and 0:34:49.630 --> 0:34:53.589 makes everyone else's life a living nightmare. Like, I think 0:34:53.590 --> 0:34:55.989 we're done with it. I was we're I think society 0:34:55.989 --> 0:34:57.430 has agreed that we're we're over. 0:34:57.430 --> 0:34:57.790 It's almost like. 0:34:57.790 --> 0:34:59.259 Kami brought it back. And then he killed it. 0:34:59.260 --> 0:35:00.989 Yeah, he killed it himself. 0:35:01.350 --> 0:35:01.920 Yeah. 0:35:01.920 --> 0:35:05.040 I mean, look, I haven't loved kami this season either. Obviously, 0:35:05.040 --> 0:35:06.900 I still, you know, he's still my boy. But I 0:35:06.900 --> 0:35:10.350 guess the question will be in, you know, do does 0:35:10.350 --> 0:35:12.690 the same sense of reviews spell the end of the bear? 0:35:12.690 --> 0:35:15.450 Because the reviews have generally been quite bad and, well, 0:35:15.450 --> 0:35:18.630 you know, a single bad review may not impact the 0:35:18.630 --> 0:35:21.600 restaurant in the show's universe. I don't know, I feel 0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:25.190 like definitely the spate of bad reviews for season three 0:35:25.190 --> 0:35:28.549 is going to temper expectations for season four. We assume 0:35:28.550 --> 0:35:30.109 that's probably going to be the last season anyway because 0:35:30.110 --> 0:35:32.150 they filmed them back to back, but it creates an 0:35:32.150 --> 0:35:35.630 interesting environment for season four to enter into because the 0:35:35.630 --> 0:35:37.939 show has been great. Season three, they cooked it and 0:35:37.940 --> 0:35:40.790 now we're getting this last season. Like what? What happens now? 0:35:40.790 --> 0:35:44.060 It's almost kind of a shame that they've already filmed 0:35:44.060 --> 0:35:46.790 the final season, because not that I think that it's 0:35:46.790 --> 0:35:50.739 always helpful for creators to have real feedback on their 0:35:50.739 --> 0:35:52.629 work as they're making it, but maybe in this case 0:35:52.630 --> 0:35:53.410 it would have been. 0:35:53.860 --> 0:35:56.379 Yeah, I feel like Chris Torres online enough to have 0:35:56.380 --> 0:35:58.660 been across what worked and didn't work from this season. 0:35:58.660 --> 0:36:00.760 And I think you're spot on that it might have 0:36:00.760 --> 0:36:02.890 been good to just like, have that input a little 0:36:02.890 --> 0:36:06.129 bit and dial things in a different way. We don't 0:36:06.130 --> 0:36:08.170 know though, right? Like we have talked about how it 0:36:08.170 --> 0:36:10.240 felt like this season was stretching out. Not a lot 0:36:10.239 --> 0:36:12.900 of plot very thinly. Maybe there's a lot in the 0:36:12.900 --> 0:36:16.500 chamber for season four. Like I'm still excited for it. 0:36:16.500 --> 0:36:18.689 When the show is good, it makes me feel really happy. 0:36:18.690 --> 0:36:22.620 I have some expectations that we could get something better, 0:36:22.770 --> 0:36:25.620 and I guess the advantage at this point is expectations 0:36:25.620 --> 0:36:28.740 are low so we can only be like, happily surprised. 0:36:28.739 --> 0:36:32.009 So it'll be fun to talk about it next year 0:36:32.010 --> 0:36:35.340 when the show's out. But um, yeah, sad to say, 0:36:35.350 --> 0:36:38.890 not one of our best viewing experiences this year. No. 0:36:38.920 --> 0:36:40.779 Do not let it rip. Just let it simmer a 0:36:40.780 --> 0:36:41.290 bit more. 0:36:53.110 --> 0:36:55.330 All right, let's talk about music. We cover the music 0:36:55.330 --> 0:36:58.060 industry a lot in our jobs here at the Sydney 0:36:58.060 --> 0:37:00.520 Morning Herald and The Age. And over the last couple 0:37:00.520 --> 0:37:03.670 of years there's been some pretty clear and I'd say 0:37:03.670 --> 0:37:07.810 depressing patterns about what's going on live music right now. 0:37:07.810 --> 0:37:10.239 If you're not one of the biggest artists in the world, 0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:13.299 Taylor Swift, Fred again level. It's really tough. It's tough 0:37:13.300 --> 0:37:15.459 to sell out shows. It's tough to get people to 0:37:15.460 --> 0:37:18.430 pay money to come and see you. In Australia in particular, 0:37:18.430 --> 0:37:22.089 Australian artists are really struggling to break through the traditional 0:37:22.090 --> 0:37:25.040 model of how they could make a living and boost 0:37:25.040 --> 0:37:28.759 their careers kind of doesn't work anymore. For most of 0:37:28.760 --> 0:37:33.230 the last 50 years, certainly most of our lives artists 0:37:33.230 --> 0:37:36.170 could make a buck playing in small, medium sized venues 0:37:36.170 --> 0:37:39.200 across the country. They could tour big festivals up and 0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:42.830 down the East coast. Triple J getting a song playlisted 0:37:42.830 --> 0:37:45.290 on that would give you huge amounts of coverage and 0:37:45.290 --> 0:37:48.319 attention and boost your sales. Triple J just does not 0:37:48.320 --> 0:37:50.500 rate in the way that it used to. It can't 0:37:50.500 --> 0:37:54.069 influence the tastes of Australians in the same way anymore. 0:37:54.100 --> 0:37:58.480 The biggest drivers of musical discovery now things like Spotify, YouTube, 0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:01.330 TikTok these are places where Australian artists are just getting 0:38:01.330 --> 0:38:04.090 drowned out by the sheer volume of what is going 0:38:04.090 --> 0:38:09.610 on internationally, and you can actually see this represented numerically 0:38:09.610 --> 0:38:13.549 in the Aria charts. And Mel, you're a recent addition 0:38:13.550 --> 0:38:15.530 to my Instagram follower list. 0:38:15.770 --> 0:38:17.450 Well, welcome to the madness. 0:38:17.450 --> 0:38:19.969 Yeah, welcome to the madness. Thomas, you've been there a 0:38:19.969 --> 0:38:22.280 little bit longer. You might not have witnessed this, but, um, 0:38:22.280 --> 0:38:27.259 every so often when, uh, the Aria Instagram page releases, 0:38:27.260 --> 0:38:30.320 it's like top ten Australian singles or top ten singles. 0:38:30.320 --> 0:38:33.319 I will share it because for the last like ten years, 0:38:33.320 --> 0:38:36.259 there's largely been like one song in the top 50, 0:38:36.260 --> 0:38:38.200 and that has been Vance Joy's Riptide. 0:38:38.230 --> 0:38:39.100 What a song though. 0:38:39.219 --> 0:38:43.660 Are you running down to the Riptide? Taken away to 0:38:43.660 --> 0:38:47.350 the dark side I want to be your left hand man. 0:38:48.130 --> 0:38:51.219 I love people who are close to me. You know 0:38:51.219 --> 0:38:53.560 will tease me about my obsession with that song and 0:38:53.560 --> 0:38:56.440 how it charts. For the record. I don't hate the song. 0:38:56.440 --> 0:38:59.380 I don't hate Vance Joy at all. I think it 0:38:59.380 --> 0:39:03.069 is remarkable in not a good way, that this one 0:39:03.070 --> 0:39:06.940 song is the only commercially successful Australian song for the past, 0:39:06.940 --> 0:39:09.400 like 11 years. But let's look at the Aria charts 0:39:09.430 --> 0:39:12.219 this week, for example. So in the top 50 singles 0:39:12.219 --> 0:39:14.740 on the Aria charts right now there are only three 0:39:14.770 --> 0:39:18.189 Australian artists. It's actually like 1 or 2 more than 0:39:18.190 --> 0:39:20.410 it's been for most of the year. Uh, The Kid 0:39:20.410 --> 0:39:22.390 Laroi is there with a couple of tracks, his new 0:39:22.390 --> 0:39:25.700 single and his, uh, previous one. There's a DJ. I 0:39:25.700 --> 0:39:28.310 don't know if you guys are across this guy Cyril. Uh, 0:39:28.310 --> 0:39:32.330 he kind of just reworks of songs he has remixed 0:39:32.330 --> 0:39:35.150 stumbling in the Suzi Quatro and Chris Norman track. He's 0:39:35.150 --> 0:39:39.290 up There. Good on DJ Cyril. And then there's Vance 0:39:39.290 --> 0:39:41.960 Joy with Riptide, a song that was released 11 years ago. 0:39:41.960 --> 0:39:46.129 That is what is charting in terms of Australian artists 0:39:46.130 --> 0:39:49.540 right now. And when you look at specifically the top 0:39:49.540 --> 0:39:54.070 20 Australian singles right now, it's kind of even more grim. 0:39:54.070 --> 0:39:56.950 Four of them out of the top 20 are AC 0:39:56.950 --> 0:40:00.370 DC songs released like at least 30 or 40 years ago. 0:40:00.400 --> 0:40:03.700 There's another six songs that are at least 10 or 0:40:03.700 --> 0:40:06.160 15 years old, so that's half of the top 20 0:40:06.160 --> 0:40:10.060 being 15 years or older. There are two different versions 0:40:10.060 --> 0:40:13.130 of gorgeous. Somebody I Used to Know like, this is 0:40:13.130 --> 0:40:16.190 it's not good, right? And I guess the question is, 0:40:16.190 --> 0:40:20.570 rant aside, Oz, like, what does this mean? And maybe 0:40:20.570 --> 0:40:23.420 the way to start the conversation with you guys, I 0:40:23.420 --> 0:40:26.569 ran into our colleague Marnie, who's on the sports team here, 0:40:26.570 --> 0:40:29.810 and she was wearing a jumper. A client liaison jumper 0:40:29.810 --> 0:40:31.610 looked really cool and I was like, oh, we're talking 0:40:31.610 --> 0:40:34.040 about Australian music today. Like, are you listening to any 0:40:34.040 --> 0:40:37.420 Australian acts that are new or interesting? And she's like, no, 0:40:37.420 --> 0:40:41.470 I don't even know where I would discover Australian music anymore. 0:40:41.469 --> 0:40:43.900 And all three of us work in this industry, so 0:40:43.900 --> 0:40:45.850 we're sort of like a bit of a biased sample. 0:40:45.850 --> 0:40:49.419 But putting aside getting media releases from labels or from 0:40:49.420 --> 0:40:52.719 acts themselves, how were you guys, if at all, you 0:40:52.719 --> 0:40:56.980 are discovering new Australian songs or music? 0:40:56.980 --> 0:40:59.650 I think that really hits the nail on the head. 0:40:59.650 --> 0:41:02.940 Like that question summarizes what the issue is, which is 0:41:02.940 --> 0:41:06.510 that Australian artists are finding it impossible to break through 0:41:06.510 --> 0:41:09.030 and to reach new audiences. When you think about, like 0:41:09.030 --> 0:41:12.960 the traditional methods of discovery, they're no longer there. Triple 0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:17.250 J is struggling, we know, to retain a Gen Z audience. 0:41:17.250 --> 0:41:21.029 We know that music street presses are not thriving in 0:41:21.030 --> 0:41:24.390 the way that they used to. And we also know 0:41:24.390 --> 0:41:26.180 that the charts and I don't think this is the 0:41:26.180 --> 0:41:28.009 answer to the problem, but it is obviously part of 0:41:28.010 --> 0:41:32.270 a bigger discussion. The charts aren't reflecting the Australian acts 0:41:32.270 --> 0:41:35.510 that are coming through, because the way that they're the 0:41:35.510 --> 0:41:40.790 data is collected is obviously privileging visibility, which is why 0:41:40.790 --> 0:41:44.239 you get superstars monopolizing it and why you get old 0:41:44.239 --> 0:41:47.060 favourites staying on the list. So I think that is 0:41:47.060 --> 0:41:50.530 the issue is that people aren't finding new artists. The 0:41:50.530 --> 0:41:53.560 venues are collapsing, as we know, during Covid more than 0:41:53.560 --> 0:41:56.260 1000 closed down. So that would have been another traditional 0:41:56.260 --> 0:41:59.470 method live music. And that's not there anymore. How do 0:41:59.469 --> 0:42:01.359 I find I'm like, I guess I'm pretty lucky in 0:42:01.360 --> 0:42:05.770 the job that I'm in. We often get approached by 0:42:05.770 --> 0:42:08.710 record companies who are showing their new acts, and that 0:42:08.710 --> 0:42:11.530 is actually how I've discovered a lot of Australian music, 0:42:11.530 --> 0:42:14.540 and particularly that like peaches PRC. Every so often we 0:42:14.540 --> 0:42:18.440 will do, uh, kind of young music to watch story. 0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:20.540 So I guess that's really how I find it through 0:42:20.540 --> 0:42:23.960 this like position, lucky position that I'm in. But if 0:42:23.960 --> 0:42:27.140 you're not in industries where you're getting that kind of access, 0:42:27.140 --> 0:42:28.520 I don't know where you're finding it. 0:42:28.520 --> 0:42:31.009 Yeah, it is really strange. Like, I, I feel like 0:42:31.010 --> 0:42:34.640 I have had like, really strange experiences that speak to, 0:42:34.640 --> 0:42:37.779 I guess, so many of the problems that we have, like, okay, 0:42:37.780 --> 0:42:39.819 for instance, when you get into the car and you drive, 0:42:39.820 --> 0:42:43.029 most people I would say have their automatically your Bluetooth 0:42:43.030 --> 0:42:44.830 hooks up to your car and you listen to music 0:42:44.830 --> 0:42:48.009 on streaming that you've already been listening to. Uh, but like, 0:42:48.010 --> 0:42:49.600 you know, every so often, if you just like chuck 0:42:49.600 --> 0:42:51.880 the radio on, I will regularly like if I have 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:53.680 triple J on, I hear a song I like, I'll 0:42:53.680 --> 0:42:55.960 then like look up that artist on my Spotify. And 0:42:55.960 --> 0:42:58.060 then eventually, once you've like, say you listen to their album, 0:42:58.060 --> 0:43:00.219 then you get to like the artist radio. That to 0:43:00.219 --> 0:43:02.610 me has been a path to find new stuff, but 0:43:02.610 --> 0:43:05.160 that's such a convoluted way of having to, like, stumble 0:43:05.160 --> 0:43:07.799 onto new Australian artists. So I remember like for ages 0:43:07.800 --> 0:43:10.020 when I first got into Bad dreams, then through the 0:43:10.020 --> 0:43:12.089 bad dreams like Artist Radio, I found all these other 0:43:12.090 --> 0:43:14.520 Australian bands that you know, are similar ish and that 0:43:14.520 --> 0:43:16.830 opens up. But like that is a very that's a 0:43:16.830 --> 0:43:18.899 lot of steps to get to new music. 0:43:18.930 --> 0:43:22.200 Yeah, totally. And Spotify is a really interesting one. I 0:43:22.200 --> 0:43:24.629 was trying to see if there are any new music 0:43:24.630 --> 0:43:27.739 Australian Spotify playlist, and there were some that you think 0:43:27.739 --> 0:43:29.930 might be new Australian songs, and they're not like Hot 0:43:29.960 --> 0:43:32.780 Hits Australia. That's a playlist. What if I curate? It's 0:43:32.780 --> 0:43:36.020 not Australian music, it's just like big international tracks that 0:43:36.020 --> 0:43:40.040 are curated for Australian listeners. That's a bit confusing. I 0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:42.770 like drill music, as you guys know, and so Spotify 0:43:42.770 --> 0:43:45.950 served me an Aussie drill playlist and I thought, well, 0:43:45.950 --> 0:43:49.810 this might be some new drill tracks. No, it's like 0:43:49.810 --> 0:43:52.540 in the beginning by one for if you know, you 0:43:52.540 --> 0:43:55.240 know by hooligan houses are like five six year old songs. 0:43:55.239 --> 0:43:57.670 Cosby Sweater by the Hilltop Hoods, which is absolutely not 0:43:57.670 --> 0:44:00.459 a drill song. It's on that playlist. And I think 0:44:00.460 --> 0:44:02.590 if it wasn't for the work that I do or 0:44:02.590 --> 0:44:04.990 the fact that I have a lot of friends and 0:44:04.989 --> 0:44:07.719 kind of former colleagues who work in the music industry 0:44:07.719 --> 0:44:09.250 or are artists, I. 0:44:09.250 --> 0:44:09.730 Would. 0:44:09.730 --> 0:44:13.330 Generally really struggle. And if that's how I feel, I 0:44:13.330 --> 0:44:16.310 don't blame normal people for not understanding what is happening 0:44:16.310 --> 0:44:19.609 in the Australian music landscape right now. And I think 0:44:19.610 --> 0:44:22.580 it's so it's so interesting because we talked about triple J, 0:44:22.580 --> 0:44:24.980 we talk about triple J a couple of times that 0:44:24.980 --> 0:44:28.910 was created to basically solve the same problem that we're 0:44:28.910 --> 0:44:32.600 having now. There wasn't an Australian radio station that played 0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:36.439 Australian music to younger people, and there was concerns that 0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:39.580 Australian artists and Australian audiences were going to miss out 0:44:39.580 --> 0:44:45.070 on a generation of sounds, ideas, storytelling. So the government 0:44:45.070 --> 0:44:48.070 needed to create something to nurture it, because ultimately, I 0:44:48.070 --> 0:44:50.800 think there's a general belief that it's important to have 0:44:50.800 --> 0:44:54.310 a creative and artistic community in Australia, and it's important 0:44:54.310 --> 0:44:57.580 for artists to be able to tell Australian stories musically 0:44:57.580 --> 0:45:00.850 and otherwise. So the government did it. Now the idea 0:45:00.850 --> 0:45:04.440 of like the government creating its own streaming platform, or 0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:09.299 even trying to regulate streaming platforms to encourage Australian music 0:45:09.300 --> 0:45:11.370 feels pretty far fetched. Like they can't even really do 0:45:11.370 --> 0:45:15.090 it right with meta to keep journalists employed. We've talked 0:45:15.090 --> 0:45:17.700 about streaming quotas on things like Netflix that was supposed 0:45:17.700 --> 0:45:20.009 to happen this year. It looks like from people I 0:45:20.010 --> 0:45:22.500 speak to in the industry, that might not happen before 0:45:22.500 --> 0:45:25.290 the next federal election. I can't really get a handle 0:45:25.290 --> 0:45:29.030 on whether people think or realize that this is a 0:45:29.030 --> 0:45:32.419 significant issue. I'm interested to get your guys vibes on that. 0:45:32.420 --> 0:45:34.760 Like you're talking about the venue shutting down Mel. I 0:45:34.760 --> 0:45:36.920 think there's a bit of conversation about that. There's a 0:45:36.920 --> 0:45:39.560 bit of conversation about the issues in festival land, like 0:45:39.560 --> 0:45:42.350 there are government inquiries looking at live music. I don't 0:45:42.350 --> 0:45:44.600 know if enough people are really across the fact that 0:45:44.600 --> 0:45:48.230 just the bare bones nature of I'm an artist trying 0:45:48.230 --> 0:45:50.620 to make a song and get that song played and 0:45:50.620 --> 0:45:53.110 get people to listen to it, which is the very 0:45:53.110 --> 0:45:55.629 base level of how this industry is supposed to work, 0:45:55.630 --> 0:45:59.140 is kind of fundamentally broken. Do people know that? 0:45:59.500 --> 0:46:02.830 I mean, I would say from the, you know, sample 0:46:02.830 --> 0:46:05.530 size of the people I know, and we've obviously discussed 0:46:05.530 --> 0:46:08.170 that they're not exactly the greatest people sometimes. But like 0:46:08.170 --> 0:46:11.440 I would say that they they not only do they 0:46:11.440 --> 0:46:14.149 not know, but like perhaps they don't care, which is 0:46:14.150 --> 0:46:16.910 like depressing and perhaps an indictment on like, I don't 0:46:16.910 --> 0:46:20.299 know where people in this particular, you know, day and 0:46:20.300 --> 0:46:23.060 age in the moment we exist in right now value, 0:46:23.060 --> 0:46:25.129 you know, the importance of new music. But like I 0:46:25.130 --> 0:46:28.310 just don't think they do like, I like it's it's 0:46:28.310 --> 0:46:30.860 sad to say, but I definitely feel like even my, 0:46:30.860 --> 0:46:34.190 my friends who aren't really into like, you know, entertainment 0:46:34.190 --> 0:46:36.080 and music and the arts and stuff, like in terms 0:46:36.080 --> 0:46:37.969 of where new music ranks in their list of priorities, 0:46:37.969 --> 0:46:40.089 like they'll be way more across, like what's going on 0:46:40.090 --> 0:46:43.000 in film and TV and that landscape, as opposed to 0:46:43.000 --> 0:46:45.250 like new music. I don't know, I feel like as 0:46:45.250 --> 0:46:47.770 you get older, unfortunately, people get rusted on to what 0:46:47.770 --> 0:46:51.670 they know. And the passion for discovering new music especially, 0:46:51.670 --> 0:46:53.650 is something that like dulls. And unless you happen to 0:46:53.650 --> 0:46:55.870 be in the industry, which we all are, people don't 0:46:55.870 --> 0:46:57.700 really go seeking it out in the way that they go. 0:46:57.700 --> 0:47:00.489 Seeking out the new TV series, the new film, because 0:47:00.489 --> 0:47:02.460 that stuff gets fed to us more and more. And so, 0:47:02.460 --> 0:47:05.160 I don't know, it's like on so many different fronts, 0:47:05.160 --> 0:47:07.110 I think, you know, to be a new group or 0:47:07.110 --> 0:47:09.629 a new artist, you're facing like a lot of different battles. 0:47:09.630 --> 0:47:13.080 Yeah. And I also don't know if people fully realize 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:16.470 the necessity of protecting Australian culture and why it's important 0:47:16.469 --> 0:47:20.069 to support Australian new artists in particular, and not just 0:47:20.070 --> 0:47:23.610 in music. Obviously, this applies to all different fields, but 0:47:23.610 --> 0:47:27.410 I think that is a historic thing that goes well. 0:47:27.440 --> 0:47:31.490 Back to like the cultural cringe and how we've consistently 0:47:31.489 --> 0:47:35.030 devalued the role of the arts. And like, I don't know, even, 0:47:35.030 --> 0:47:39.230 you know, Stem is important, but I think Stem, sport, 0:47:39.230 --> 0:47:43.010 all these other things are historically valued over the role 0:47:43.010 --> 0:47:47.540 that storytellers have. Um, and I think that it's because 0:47:47.540 --> 0:47:50.120 it's hard to measure. Right. Like, although sometimes you can 0:47:50.140 --> 0:47:53.290 measure it when you have certain film franchises or, you know, 0:47:53.290 --> 0:47:55.210 we talk about Bluey a bit, but I think because 0:47:55.210 --> 0:47:58.750 it's hard to measure, these new artists can miss out. 0:47:58.750 --> 0:48:01.719 But what they're bringing is not necessarily financial, but it's 0:48:01.719 --> 0:48:04.900 a way of, you know, reflecting our culture back to ourselves, 0:48:04.900 --> 0:48:07.359 which I think people, until it's gone, you don't really 0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:09.550 realize what you're what you're losing. 0:48:09.550 --> 0:48:11.020 Yeah. And I think in that vein, one thing I 0:48:11.020 --> 0:48:14.690 wanted to mention is the closure after 25 years of 0:48:14.690 --> 0:48:17.960 the Sydney independent record label Elefant Traks, who a big 0:48:17.960 --> 0:48:21.319 part of the independent music scene for decades, particularly hip 0:48:21.320 --> 0:48:25.040 hop acts like The Herd, Urthboy, Hermitude, L-fresh The Lion, 0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:29.030 Horrorshow like these are independent acts nurtured by a music 0:48:29.030 --> 0:48:32.120 label that could make eke out a living, we should 0:48:32.120 --> 0:48:35.690 say never super financially lucrative. And those are artists that 0:48:35.690 --> 0:48:39.790 represented very specific parts of Australia, whether it's like indigenous 0:48:39.790 --> 0:48:42.550 acts like The Last Connection, whether it's DJs from the 0:48:42.550 --> 0:48:44.410 Blue Mountains like Hermitude, whether it's kids from the inner West, 0:48:44.410 --> 0:48:48.760 whether it's L-fresh from Western Sydney, they told stories about 0:48:48.760 --> 0:48:52.210 the places and communities they came from, and they could 0:48:52.210 --> 0:48:56.469 only exist because of a musical infrastructure and a label 0:48:56.469 --> 0:49:01.960 that existed to support them. With that label closing and 0:49:01.960 --> 0:49:04.500 basically no one creating new labels because it doesn't make 0:49:04.500 --> 0:49:07.050 any sense. As we've been talking about, there's literally like 0:49:07.050 --> 0:49:10.560 stories and genres and kinds of music that will just 0:49:10.560 --> 0:49:12.899 not really hit. And maybe the other thing to say 0:49:12.900 --> 0:49:15.299 is none of this is a knock on artists or 0:49:15.300 --> 0:49:18.120 the people trying to promote them. I'm not mad at 0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:19.980 or saying there aren't good Australian artists. I'm going to 0:49:19.980 --> 0:49:22.350 name some good Australian artists I think people should check 0:49:22.350 --> 0:49:25.620 out in a minute. It's more the structure around how 0:49:25.620 --> 0:49:28.830 all this stuff works is making it very hard for 0:49:28.830 --> 0:49:33.090 them to succeed. I do think, though, in some major 0:49:33.090 --> 0:49:35.280 labels this is a really interesting thing. So a few 0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:37.530 people have broken down their numbers for me over the 0:49:37.530 --> 0:49:39.870 past couple of weeks, and they've I've been asking around 0:49:39.870 --> 0:49:42.779 different artists and different industry people. Where do you think 0:49:42.780 --> 0:49:45.629 some of these key issues lie and who's responsible? They 0:49:45.630 --> 0:49:47.970 made the point that in the olden days, like say, ten, 0:49:47.969 --> 0:49:51.650 15 years ago, about 90% of the revenue from major 0:49:51.650 --> 0:49:54.529 labels came from selling new music because people had to 0:49:54.530 --> 0:49:58.129 buy albums. Right. Once you own the Fleetwood Mac Best 0:49:58.130 --> 0:49:59.839 of album, you don't need to buy it again. You 0:49:59.840 --> 0:50:01.640 just play it all the time. So for labels to 0:50:01.640 --> 0:50:04.489 make money, they have to find and break and nurture 0:50:04.489 --> 0:50:07.910 new acts to convince you to buy new records. With 0:50:07.910 --> 0:50:11.450 the advent of streaming, the numbers have totally flipped. About 90% 0:50:11.450 --> 0:50:14.420 of the money comes from streaming back catalogue stuff. So 0:50:14.420 --> 0:50:17.180 you do listen to Fleetwood Mac on Spotify rather than 0:50:17.180 --> 0:50:19.459 playing the album now, and every time you do that 0:50:19.460 --> 0:50:22.460 generates money for the label and for the band. So 0:50:22.460 --> 0:50:25.520 major labels don't have the same incentive they used to 0:50:25.520 --> 0:50:29.150 to find and nurture and help break Australian artists. There 0:50:29.150 --> 0:50:31.280 are big labels in this country who have cut back 0:50:31.280 --> 0:50:33.560 their A&R departments, and they're the people who are in 0:50:33.560 --> 0:50:37.190 charge of finding and nurturing acts because it's way less 0:50:37.190 --> 0:50:42.279 risky and more economically safe to spend $1 million saying, 0:50:42.280 --> 0:50:45.190 go and listen to Fleetwood Mac records than it is 0:50:45.190 --> 0:50:47.710 to say, hey, this new artist Thomas Mitchell's got a 0:50:47.710 --> 0:50:49.990 great album, give it a red hot go. And so 0:50:49.989 --> 0:50:52.089 there is that side of it as well, and I 0:50:52.090 --> 0:50:53.350 don't yeah, I don't know what the fix is. I 0:50:53.350 --> 0:50:57.040 don't run these labels, but there's a lot of factors 0:50:57.040 --> 0:51:01.120 that are all aligning to make the Australian music landscape 0:51:01.180 --> 0:51:02.650 feel pretty grim at the. 0:51:02.650 --> 0:51:03.630 Moment Then I. 0:51:03.630 --> 0:51:05.280 Mean, a lot of buzz around that Thomas Mitchell guy, 0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:07.470 by the way, you guys should check him out. I 0:51:07.469 --> 0:51:09.330 think that's what's so interesting though, because like obviously we're 0:51:09.330 --> 0:51:12.330 seeing this like clogging of the charts with old artists like, 0:51:12.330 --> 0:51:14.460 you know, as it was, Harry styles has been on 0:51:14.460 --> 0:51:16.980 there basically since it dropped Ed Sheeran. Like all these 0:51:16.980 --> 0:51:19.469 people that we just like, you know, obviously Taylor and 0:51:19.469 --> 0:51:21.750 I saw that in, in the UK in the Official 0:51:21.750 --> 0:51:24.089 Charts Company, they changed their rules a couple of years 0:51:24.090 --> 0:51:26.399 ago to limit the amount of songs that one artist 0:51:26.400 --> 0:51:29.629 can have on the chart. So yeah, interesting. One artist 0:51:29.630 --> 0:51:31.130 can only have a limit of three songs in the 0:51:31.130 --> 0:51:33.650 UK chart at any given time. So, you know, that 0:51:33.650 --> 0:51:36.980 was like actually created in response to Ed Sheeran's, um, whatever, 0:51:36.980 --> 0:51:39.890 whichever math symbol album he released that was really good. 0:51:40.070 --> 0:51:42.379 But like so so that means that, I guess, could 0:51:42.380 --> 0:51:44.810 that be an incentive to a label? Because, you know, 0:51:44.810 --> 0:51:47.330 obviously charting still means a lot. It makes you eligible 0:51:47.330 --> 0:51:49.669 for a bunch of awards and labels, still want the 0:51:49.670 --> 0:51:52.569 prestige and recognition that comes with charting. So if we 0:51:52.570 --> 0:51:55.299 do institute rules like that here, so you can only have, 0:51:55.300 --> 0:51:57.820 you know, you know, three songs from an artist or 0:51:57.820 --> 0:51:59.950 you could have like there's been suggestions of doing like 0:51:59.950 --> 0:52:02.200 Time limits. So a song can only chart for this 0:52:02.200 --> 0:52:04.150 long or it has to be within this amount of 0:52:04.150 --> 0:52:06.190 time of release. And then I guess you create a 0:52:06.190 --> 0:52:09.100 bit more of a framework around what is allowed to chart. 0:52:09.100 --> 0:52:11.470 So then because obviously, as you said, the nature of 0:52:11.469 --> 0:52:12.850 streaming is that people just go and listen to whatever 0:52:12.850 --> 0:52:15.130 they want to listen to, and it's often just their 0:52:15.140 --> 0:52:17.840 favourite songs from 15 years ago. And that way you 0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:20.750 can kind of like maybe like massage the charts back 0:52:20.750 --> 0:52:23.240 into a more contemporary reflection of like what is going 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:25.250 on and what is actually being listened to as opposed 0:52:25.250 --> 0:52:26.390 to people's favorite shit. 0:52:26.390 --> 0:52:28.580 But I don't know if I do think that that like, 0:52:28.580 --> 0:52:30.830 I think it's interesting to talk about the charts. Um, 0:52:30.830 --> 0:52:34.279 and I think the Arias have changed their charts and 0:52:34.280 --> 0:52:37.280 how they collect their data over the years. Um, but 0:52:37.280 --> 0:52:38.570 I do think that would be a bit that's a 0:52:38.570 --> 0:52:40.390 bit of a distraction from the issue. Like, I don't 0:52:40.390 --> 0:52:42.910 know if you want to massage the data to necessarily 0:52:42.910 --> 0:52:46.810 tell a kind of story to, to Australian artists like 0:52:46.810 --> 0:52:48.700 you may as well just address the issue of why 0:52:48.700 --> 0:52:52.390 Australian artists are struggling so much rather than be like, well, 0:52:52.390 --> 0:52:54.520 here's the data all polished up. I mean, we do 0:52:54.520 --> 0:52:56.920 it for your story. Sometimes we we twist the data 0:52:56.920 --> 0:52:59.800 to look good for you and it doesn't address the issue. Right. Like, 0:53:00.489 --> 0:53:02.440 you know what I mean? Like it's a distraction in 0:53:02.440 --> 0:53:02.620 a way. 0:53:02.770 --> 0:53:04.830 But I think you could address all problems at the 0:53:04.830 --> 0:53:06.540 same time. Do you know what I mean? Like, rather than. Yeah, 0:53:06.540 --> 0:53:08.370 just like papering over the cracks of the Da to 0:53:08.370 --> 0:53:10.980 make it paint a pretty picture that could be part 0:53:10.980 --> 0:53:12.270 of a larger solution. 0:53:12.270 --> 0:53:14.730 Yeah. Like what merit is there in a chart that 0:53:14.730 --> 0:53:17.040 tells you that AC, DC have four songs in the 0:53:17.040 --> 0:53:19.439 top 20 right now? That to me is an issue. 0:53:19.440 --> 0:53:22.020 It's like maybe I think all the ideas you suggested, Thomas, 0:53:22.020 --> 0:53:23.880 make sense. Maybe there's another one there, which is like, 0:53:23.880 --> 0:53:26.069 just have a chart that is for like music that's 0:53:26.070 --> 0:53:28.380 been released in the past 12 months. So we know 0:53:28.380 --> 0:53:32.400 what Australian acts that are making new music, how are 0:53:32.400 --> 0:53:35.160 they doing? What are people listening to? What is hitting 0:53:35.160 --> 0:53:37.230 doesn't solve all the problems. I completely agree with you, Mel, 0:53:37.230 --> 0:53:40.200 but if like a young Australian act, someone is going 0:53:40.200 --> 0:53:43.020 to mention Nick Ward has a really successful song because 0:53:43.020 --> 0:53:45.810 he's been playlisted by triple J, he's been announced as 0:53:45.810 --> 0:53:48.840 Troye Sivan's support act for the tour later this year. 0:53:48.840 --> 0:53:51.089 There's maybe a little bit of buzz around him if 0:53:51.090 --> 0:53:54.340 he can get the chance to track in a chart 0:53:54.340 --> 0:53:57.879 that isn't crowded out by AC, DC and a 30 0:53:57.880 --> 0:54:00.490 year old gorgeous song or 20 year old gorgeous song, like, 0:54:00.489 --> 0:54:02.680 maybe that could put him on the radar a little 0:54:02.680 --> 0:54:05.020 bit so these things could potentially work in tandem. 0:54:05.020 --> 0:54:06.550 But I feel like the other thing we probably need 0:54:06.550 --> 0:54:08.770 to mention is, well, two things. Obviously, I think in 0:54:08.770 --> 0:54:10.870 response to all of this, like last year, Tony Burke 0:54:10.870 --> 0:54:13.450 announced the creation of Music Australia, which is basically a 0:54:13.450 --> 0:54:15.900 body that is dedicated to, I think one of their 0:54:15.900 --> 0:54:19.529 biggest priorities is addressing discoverability, because that's what really is 0:54:19.530 --> 0:54:21.780 so hard right now. But I suppose we probably have 0:54:21.780 --> 0:54:24.780 to discuss like TikTok, because that is where, you know, 0:54:24.780 --> 0:54:28.170 the classic triple J demo exists now is on TikTok. 0:54:28.170 --> 0:54:30.570 And obviously there's been so many different issues in terms 0:54:30.570 --> 0:54:33.180 of like licensing of songs and ways to get discovered 0:54:33.180 --> 0:54:36.480 and the fact that TikTok is a platform that basically 0:54:36.480 --> 0:54:40.210 is exists and will only, you know, spotlight artists if 0:54:40.210 --> 0:54:43.180 their music goes viral. But like basically, I guess if 0:54:43.180 --> 0:54:46.150 I was an Australian musician, like wanting to break out, 0:54:46.150 --> 0:54:48.330 I'd be like, well, look, all of these 16 to 0:54:48.330 --> 0:54:51.339 30 year olds really are like existing on TikTok or 0:54:51.340 --> 0:54:54.279 listening to stuff or discovering stuff on TikTok, like, how 0:54:54.280 --> 0:54:56.830 do I infiltrate this platform that is kind of like 0:54:56.830 --> 0:54:59.529 engineered to be geared against me anyway, but like what? 0:54:59.530 --> 0:55:01.690 What happens there like that? That is a big problem 0:55:01.690 --> 0:55:02.620 for Australian artists. 0:55:02.620 --> 0:55:04.540 Well, I think it's a problem if they feel like 0:55:04.540 --> 0:55:06.700 they have to infiltrate that, because TikTok obviously likes a 0:55:06.700 --> 0:55:09.520 very certain kind of music. I mean, Gracie Abrams is 0:55:09.520 --> 0:55:13.420 maybe the epitome of that likes a very certain kind 0:55:13.420 --> 0:55:15.790 of song. Um, and that's dominating. So I don't think 0:55:15.790 --> 0:55:19.239 you want to get the Australian artists to create the 0:55:19.239 --> 0:55:21.190 song that TikTok is loving, because then you will just 0:55:21.190 --> 0:55:23.680 have the same song created over and over again. I 0:55:23.680 --> 0:55:26.020 actually think the bigger issue really is like, artists don't 0:55:26.020 --> 0:55:28.940 make a lot of money out of record sales or streams, 0:55:28.940 --> 0:55:32.150 like they make their money out of touring. And that, 0:55:32.150 --> 0:55:34.640 I think, is the real crux of the issue in 0:55:34.640 --> 0:55:37.670 Australia is that they don't have anywhere to play anymore. 0:55:37.700 --> 0:55:40.520 Totally, totally and harder for them to tour internationally with, 0:55:40.520 --> 0:55:44.120 you know, exchange rates, cost of living, visa fees increasing 0:55:44.120 --> 0:55:46.520 for artists in the States. It's a story that Meg, 0:55:46.520 --> 0:55:48.860 our colleague, covered a couple of weeks ago, just on 0:55:48.860 --> 0:55:53.030 the streaming side of things. I mean, there this is 0:55:53.030 --> 0:55:55.130 where there have been conversations for the government to step 0:55:55.130 --> 0:55:57.410 in and actually and it's a boring word to use, 0:55:57.410 --> 0:55:59.810 but like regulate, like if they're going to talk about 0:55:59.810 --> 0:56:03.680 making sure that Netflix prioritizes Australian content, why can't there 0:56:03.710 --> 0:56:07.130 be discussion around, you know, when Spotify makes its playlist? 0:56:07.130 --> 0:56:09.890 So when Spotify plays radio, you know, it's like, you 0:56:09.890 --> 0:56:12.350 like this artist, listen to that artist. Every third song 0:56:12.350 --> 0:56:14.600 has to be an Australian song. Like, why not just 0:56:14.600 --> 0:56:18.270 say you operate in our country, you make money from Australians, 0:56:18.270 --> 0:56:20.279 and part of the quid pro quo of that is 0:56:20.280 --> 0:56:22.859 you have to ensure that Australian acts can't just be 0:56:22.860 --> 0:56:26.219 drowned out by Sabrina Carpenter again and again, or Gracie 0:56:26.219 --> 0:56:29.100 Abrams on TikTok. Like, I think that is something that 0:56:29.100 --> 0:56:31.260 could be done. I hope Music Australia is doing it. 0:56:31.260 --> 0:56:34.020 I mean, they're smart people probably think about this stuff 0:56:34.020 --> 0:56:36.330 more than us. I'm kind of surprised that no one 0:56:36.330 --> 0:56:38.610 in the government just stood up and said, hey, yeah, 0:56:38.610 --> 0:56:41.560 there's a real issue here with music in Australia. Every 0:56:41.560 --> 0:56:43.570 artist is talking about it. Every label is talking about it, 0:56:43.570 --> 0:56:45.489 the media is talking about it. We're going to look 0:56:45.489 --> 0:56:48.640 at what we can do. It sort of just seems like, oh, well, 0:56:48.640 --> 0:56:50.259 maybe get to it once we figure out what to 0:56:50.260 --> 0:56:52.209 do with Netflix, which has been going on for years 0:56:52.210 --> 0:56:54.670 and years. So I feel a little bit pessimistic. But 0:56:54.670 --> 0:56:58.870 hopefully this conversation encourages people to think about it. Maybe 0:56:58.870 --> 0:57:01.420 there are some influential people listening to this and starting 0:57:01.420 --> 0:57:05.730 those convos. If music companies in Australia, if artists started 0:57:05.730 --> 0:57:10.350 demanding the government do something to enforce Australian music, be 0:57:10.350 --> 0:57:12.150 played on things like TikTok and Spotify, I think that 0:57:12.150 --> 0:57:14.580 could go a long way. Along with the touring stuff 0:57:14.580 --> 0:57:15.480 that you mentioned, Mel. 0:57:15.510 --> 0:57:18.330 I'm kind of skeptical that we'll see the government try 0:57:18.330 --> 0:57:21.990 to enforce quotas on TikTok. Um, I agree, I'm just 0:57:21.990 --> 0:57:22.590 chucking out some. 0:57:22.590 --> 0:57:23.490 Ideas like be positive. 0:57:23.490 --> 0:57:26.220 We've seen how they've gone with meta. Um, I actually 0:57:26.220 --> 0:57:29.270 think the more maybe effective model to steal from is 0:57:29.270 --> 0:57:31.580 what they've done with the film industry, which are like 0:57:31.580 --> 0:57:34.700 kind of tax offsets and rebates. I wonder if that's 0:57:34.700 --> 0:57:38.990 more of a way to incentivize these companies to, to 0:57:38.990 --> 0:57:41.390 promote Australian musicians, because I. 0:57:41.390 --> 0:57:42.230 Just don't. 0:57:42.230 --> 0:57:43.580 Want to sound like the AFR, but I don't know 0:57:43.580 --> 0:57:47.300 if the regulation of the big companies is going to 0:57:47.300 --> 0:57:50.150 work like Sony. I love Sony, but like, they're not, 0:57:50.150 --> 0:57:52.420 you know, they they have to make a profit like 0:57:52.420 --> 0:57:52.780 they're not. 0:57:52.780 --> 0:57:53.380 Your lunch coming up. 0:57:53.470 --> 0:57:56.770 I don't have faith in their kind of their altruism. 0:57:56.890 --> 0:57:59.830 I feel like regardless of which path anyone takes, we 0:57:59.830 --> 0:58:03.010 have just come up with like seven great ideas to help, 0:58:03.010 --> 0:58:05.410 and I hope someone listening to this takes them on. 0:58:05.440 --> 0:58:07.570 I said that I wanted to mention a couple of 0:58:07.570 --> 0:58:10.120 recent Australian songs, because I don't want to just talk 0:58:10.120 --> 0:58:12.610 about the issues here and then my My Impress Your 0:58:12.610 --> 0:58:14.950 Friends is not an Australian artist, so I thought I 0:58:14.950 --> 0:58:17.250 should mention Australian acts before people make fun of me. 0:58:17.250 --> 0:58:19.890 I mentioned Nick Ward before up and coming pop guy 0:58:19.890 --> 0:58:22.800 on the Troy Tour. His most recent single, Shooting Star 0:58:22.800 --> 0:58:25.020 is really, really fun. If you want a pop kind 0:58:25.020 --> 0:58:27.450 of a vibe. Amyl and the sniffers, they don't need 0:58:27.450 --> 0:58:30.390 my help. They're a big and successful band. I've always 0:58:30.390 --> 0:58:33.150 loved them. Their most recent single, You Should Not Be 0:58:33.150 --> 0:58:35.790 Doing That is really good. Like, I think this is 0:58:35.790 --> 0:58:39.540 one of the best Australian songs in the last little while. 0:58:39.540 --> 0:58:42.610 It's really, really fun and it's so exciting to see 0:58:42.610 --> 0:58:46.480 them kill it overseas. And the final one northeast Party House, 0:58:46.480 --> 0:58:49.750 more electro sort of vibe. Their latest album is awesome, 0:58:49.750 --> 0:58:52.630 but the lead single off it, enhancer, is also really fun. 0:58:52.630 --> 0:58:56.740 So there's a bit of a rock, pop and dance recommendations. 0:58:56.740 --> 0:58:58.270 So there you go. I'm doing my bit to support 0:58:58.270 --> 0:59:08.490 Australian music. Let's move on to our final and most 0:59:08.490 --> 0:59:12.330 beloved segment, Impress Your Friends, where we share something that 0:59:12.330 --> 0:59:18.180 we watched, listened to, read, or consumed last week in culture. Uh, Mel? 0:59:18.180 --> 0:59:18.780 I'm up. 0:59:18.840 --> 0:59:24.780 Well, learning new Australian writers. My recommendation this week is, um, kin. 0:59:24.780 --> 0:59:29.780 Mine's new memoir, Fragile Creatures. It's a really the word 0:59:29.780 --> 0:59:31.490 that comes to mind is graceful, like it's a very 0:59:31.490 --> 0:59:35.990 graceful book. It's about his experience growing up in Perth. 0:59:35.990 --> 0:59:39.980 His mum was a migrant from England, his dad was 0:59:39.980 --> 0:59:42.800 a Burmese refugee. And it starts, it looks at the 0:59:42.800 --> 0:59:45.860 racism he endured in Perth growing up from that background, 0:59:45.860 --> 0:59:49.400 and it's really quite horrific and at times hard to watch. 0:59:49.400 --> 0:59:53.470 But then it moves into this experience he has going overseas, 0:59:53.470 --> 0:59:58.180 and his former partner accuses him of stalking her. So 0:59:58.180 --> 1:00:00.010 he has to face a court case overseas. And while 1:00:00.010 --> 1:00:03.580 that's going on, his sister has been facing this illness, 1:00:03.580 --> 1:00:07.450 which leaves her in bed for months and months and months, 1:00:07.450 --> 1:00:10.030 and she's getting worse. And it's an illness that, you know, 1:00:10.030 --> 1:00:14.110 the diagnosis is contentious, so there's all these different elements 1:00:14.110 --> 1:00:16.600 of it. But he brings it together so nicely and 1:00:16.600 --> 1:00:19.620 it's really honest and insightful, and it's a look at 1:00:19.620 --> 1:00:23.610 masculinity and racism and also the idea about how the 1:00:23.610 --> 1:00:27.390 body and mind works together. It's just a very, uh, 1:00:27.390 --> 1:00:29.790 it's a great read. I would recommend it. And I'm 1:00:29.790 --> 1:00:33.330 it's a quiet book. It's from a smaller publisher, Black Inc.. Uh, 1:00:33.330 --> 1:00:36.240 Ken is a writer, but I don't think has is, 1:00:36.270 --> 1:00:38.370 you know, particularly well known. So I hope it does 1:00:38.370 --> 1:00:40.320 kind of make a mark because it does deserve to 1:00:40.320 --> 1:00:40.780 be read. 1:00:40.810 --> 1:00:43.240 Good on you supporting Australian artists, Mel. 1:00:43.330 --> 1:00:44.020 Great try. 1:00:44.020 --> 1:00:45.430 Great stuff. Um. 1:00:45.430 --> 1:00:48.850 Thomas Vine is a TV show on a little known streamer, 1:00:48.880 --> 1:00:53.050 Aussie streamer named Apple. This. This is very good, though. Um, 1:00:53.050 --> 1:00:54.730 you know, we've been in a bit of a funny 1:00:54.730 --> 1:00:57.100 time for, for new TV shows, and obviously the bear 1:00:57.160 --> 1:01:00.040 is pointing us all, but This is Sunny, starring Rashida Jones, 1:01:00.040 --> 1:01:02.440 who I think we all know and love. Um, I 1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:05.040 think she's great. Uh, and so basically, this is adapted 1:01:05.040 --> 1:01:08.220 from Colin O'Sullivan's novel. Uh, but basically she plays an 1:01:08.220 --> 1:01:10.919 American woman living in Japan with her Japanese husband. And 1:01:10.920 --> 1:01:14.010 one day, her husband and son disappear in a plane crash. Uh, 1:01:14.010 --> 1:01:17.220 it all feels very mysterious. A bit losti almost. Um, 1:01:17.220 --> 1:01:20.580 but as far as we know, her husband has passed away. Uh, she, 1:01:20.580 --> 1:01:24.570 you know, in this kind of strange, you know, post death. 1:01:24.570 --> 1:01:25.050 Grief. 1:01:25.050 --> 1:01:27.030 That has gripped her, she then, like, gets a knock 1:01:27.030 --> 1:01:29.810 at the door one day and she meets Sonny, a 1:01:29.810 --> 1:01:32.540 robot that her husband, who was far as she knew, 1:01:32.540 --> 1:01:35.720 worked for a refrigeration company has created and tailored to 1:01:35.720 --> 1:01:39.350 her exact sensibilities. He has a full history of her life, 1:01:39.350 --> 1:01:41.660 and he basically is the ultimate companion. And at first, 1:01:41.660 --> 1:01:43.910 she doesn't really know what to make of it. And 1:01:43.910 --> 1:01:47.060 then as the show kind of goes along, it becomes, 1:01:47.060 --> 1:01:50.090 you know, this comfort, but it also becomes this increasingly 1:01:50.090 --> 1:01:53.020 kind of like dark force in her life. And the 1:01:53.020 --> 1:01:54.940 show is really funny. Rashida Jones is so good at 1:01:54.940 --> 1:01:57.970 toeing the line between like, drama and then like comedy, 1:01:57.970 --> 1:02:00.910 and also just there's this constant sense of foreboding. The 1:02:00.910 --> 1:02:03.430 show does become like a kind of comment on, you know, 1:02:03.430 --> 1:02:05.560 where the future is headed. And I and all of 1:02:05.560 --> 1:02:07.750 those things we love to delve into. But yeah, if 1:02:07.750 --> 1:02:09.280 you're if you're looking for a kind of an off 1:02:09.280 --> 1:02:10.960 beat show that is a bit different to everything else 1:02:10.960 --> 1:02:13.480 out there right now, um, Sunny on Apple is definitely 1:02:13.480 --> 1:02:14.169 worth a watch. 1:02:14.290 --> 1:02:14.740 Uh, Apple. 1:02:14.740 --> 1:02:16.270 TV hitting it out of the park lately. 1:02:16.270 --> 1:02:17.670 I think I'd love a robot friend. 1:02:18.180 --> 1:02:19.230 Yeah, you probably would. 1:02:19.230 --> 1:02:19.650 Yeah. 1:02:20.880 --> 1:02:22.320 Avoid the obvious Thomas joke. 1:02:22.440 --> 1:02:23.520 Yeah. Set you up. 1:02:23.520 --> 1:02:23.850 There. 1:02:24.060 --> 1:02:29.670 Uh, my my recommendation is my guy, Zack Bryant. Back. 1:02:29.670 --> 1:02:34.110 Surprise album out of nowhere. The great American bar scene. 1:02:34.110 --> 1:02:36.870 I will say I really liked this album. So, Zack Bryant, 1:02:36.870 --> 1:02:39.930 for people who are not familiar with my adoration of 1:02:40.240 --> 1:02:44.830 country artist in America, really, really good. Had that really 1:02:44.830 --> 1:02:46.930 big hit. I remember everything with Kacey Musgraves, I think, 1:02:46.930 --> 1:02:49.030 towards the end of last year, but has released a 1:02:49.030 --> 1:02:52.540 couple of awesome albums. His self-titled is probably my favorite. Uh, 1:02:52.540 --> 1:02:54.700 I will say about this album, it's not like a 1:02:54.700 --> 1:02:58.480 radical reinvention of Zach. It's very much the same stuff 1:02:58.480 --> 1:03:00.880 that we've had from him in a while, but it's 1:03:00.880 --> 1:03:03.580 pretty good. There's a Bruce Springsteen collaboration on there, which 1:03:03.580 --> 1:03:06.540 is really, really nice. Um, my two favorite tracks, if 1:03:06.540 --> 1:03:09.930 you're a bit daunted by the size and the length 1:03:09.930 --> 1:03:11.580 of the album, and you want to just sort of 1:03:11.580 --> 1:03:14.670 what are the good bits? Uh, 28 and Oak Island. 1:03:14.700 --> 1:03:18.960 Two real standout fun, kind of more poppy, accessible bits, 1:03:18.960 --> 1:03:22.620 but just really nice to have another full length Zach 1:03:22.620 --> 1:03:24.750 Bryant album. Yes, it's my recommendation. 1:03:24.750 --> 1:03:27.060 I just wanted to offer some feedback on your recommendation. 1:03:27.210 --> 1:03:27.930 Feel free. 1:03:27.960 --> 1:03:31.760 Firstly, it fucking features John Mayer and you didn't. 1:03:31.910 --> 1:03:33.620 Sorry, you didn't even mention it. 1:03:34.640 --> 1:03:36.740 Which is I'm trying to pretend that one doesn't exist. 1:03:36.830 --> 1:03:38.930 I actually quite like that song. The album is great. 1:03:38.930 --> 1:03:40.400 I listened to it on the way to work this morning. 1:03:40.400 --> 1:03:42.290 I've been so into it when when he just, like, 1:03:42.410 --> 1:03:45.050 comes out with Wet Hot American. 1:03:45.740 --> 1:03:46.490 Best kind of. 1:03:46.490 --> 1:03:48.020 Best lyrics since I was. 1:03:48.020 --> 1:03:48.620 I've never more. 1:03:48.620 --> 1:03:51.800 Wanted to just be a guy who drives a truck. 1:03:51.800 --> 1:03:54.310 And the main thing I'm worried about is like, what 1:03:54.310 --> 1:03:57.070 I'm bringing to the cookout on Friday night. And that 1:03:57.070 --> 1:04:00.310 is the nostalgia that he is like conjuring up. And 1:04:00.310 --> 1:04:01.780 I'm like, man, yeah, the world used to be a 1:04:01.780 --> 1:04:04.300 more simple place. You don't have to worry about politics 1:04:04.300 --> 1:04:06.670 or the state of the world, just your family. You know, 1:04:06.670 --> 1:04:09.460 your job, your gun, your truck. I mean, I'm. 1:04:09.460 --> 1:04:11.440 Making it sound like a conservative album. It's not. 1:04:11.440 --> 1:04:15.160 You're fetishizing kind of working class culture here. 1:04:15.160 --> 1:04:16.300 I, I. 1:04:16.510 --> 1:04:16.660 I. 1:04:16.660 --> 1:04:19.530 Mean, that's country music, right? Like, that's that's the vibes. 1:04:19.530 --> 1:04:22.500 It's simple and straightforward and yeah, he's you know, he's 1:04:22.500 --> 1:04:25.080 an interesting songwriter as well. I don't mean to write 1:04:25.080 --> 1:04:27.720 him off as just like a country hick or whatever, but, um, 1:04:27.720 --> 1:04:30.840 there's something about the detachment from a lot of the 1:04:30.840 --> 1:04:32.670 chaos and drama in the world that we kind of 1:04:32.670 --> 1:04:34.320 cover and talk about all the time that I find 1:04:34.320 --> 1:04:36.150 really appealing about the album. So it's good. It's a 1:04:36.150 --> 1:04:36.570 great listen. 1:04:36.570 --> 1:04:38.250 I'm glad it came out in time for your birthday, too. 1:04:38.250 --> 1:04:41.460 Thanks, Mel. Thank you. Um, that's it from us guys. 1:04:41.470 --> 1:04:44.380 Great conversations. Always take care. See you next week. 1:04:44.590 --> 1:04:45.460 Perfect. We've got to go. 1:04:45.460 --> 1:04:46.690 Out with Riptide shortly. 1:04:46.720 --> 1:04:48.730 I was scared of dentists, and. 1:04:50.530 --> 1:04:55.870 I was scared of dentists and the dark. I was 1:04:55.870 --> 1:04:59.920 scared of pretty girls and starting conversations. 1:04:59.920 --> 1:05:03.160 All my friends are turning green. 1:05:08.130 --> 1:05:10.950 This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong. 1:05:10.980 --> 1:05:13.770 If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, 1:05:13.770 --> 1:05:16.200 make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app. 1:05:16.200 --> 1:05:18.840 Leave us a review or better yet, share it with 1:05:18.840 --> 1:05:21.990 a friend! I'm Usman Farooqui. See you next week!