S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a
S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of
S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Mel Kembery and
S1: Thomas Mitchell. What's up team? Good morning.
S2: Everybody. I am feeling very good today. I think Osman,
S2: you're looking particularly fine. I must say I don't want
S2: to do too much of a loving. But you're looking
S2: very like he's looking well rested. Trim. This is a
S2: good angle for you.
S3: What an original way for us to start the podcast again.
S3: By you guys complimenting each other on your physicality.
S1: Well, I, I'm not feeling particularly well rested, so I'm
S1: glad I'm looking good. Thomas. Thank you so much. Mel.
S1: You look lovely. Delightful as always. Sparkling.
S3: Thank you. You both look lovely.
S2: We've covered that up. Osman. How? I was curious to know.
S2: How is it going with the parents in town? I
S2: know they're visiting.
S1: My parents did visit. It was my birthday last week.
S1: End of last week. I got some very nice birthday
S1: messages from a bunch of people. I got some very
S1: mean ones from you guys. People who listened to the
S1: podcast last week will recall that Thomas made a jibe
S1: at me being a marvel guy. He sent me a
S1: very extended birthday message comparing me to Tony Stark and Spider-Man,
S1: which I did not appreciate at all. Um, yeah. My
S1: parents are in town for a couple of days. It
S1: was nice to see them. Did you get a cake?
S1: I did not get a cake. I got a very
S1: nice sweater from my mum for my birthday, which I
S1: feel like is a very mum gift to get, but
S1: also it was her birthday. Her birthday is just a
S1: few days after mine. So, um. Yeah, that was nice
S1: to celebrate with them. They're on holiday in Tasmania right now.
S1: She told me she, uh, listened to. Well, she listened
S1: to the pod all the time. And she's real deep
S1: in Presumed Innocent right now. She's loving it. She remembers
S1: the movie from the 90s, but is loving the TV show.
S2: Yeah, I feel like people are really getting into Presumed
S2: Innocent and like, I'm very much here for it, so
S2: I'm just dying for the finale at this point.
S3: Well, we'll have to get Mama Farooqi on the yeah,
S3: on the line for it.
S1: Um, there's quite a bit we're going to talk about
S1: on the show today, but there's some exciting trailer related
S1: news to, I think, maybe kick things off with. We
S1: talked about the Gladiator two pictures that were revealed last week.
S1: We got the trailer on Wednesday morning.
S4: Whose head could I give you that would satisfy this fury?
S5: The entire Roman army's too much. The general will do
S5: little things.
S4: And my throne must fall to my tool kit. I
S4: need only give it a push.
S6: Will you make it out alive?
UU: All right, all right. Tears on the mausoleum floor. Blood
UU: stains the Coliseum doors.
S1: They really went all out for this trailer. That was
S1: that was a lot of Denzel. There was a lot
S1: of Paul Mescal. There was the Coliseum being flooded with water.
S1: There was no church in the wild.
S3: Sorry, you've forgotten the gladiator riding the rhino. That was
S3: a real highlight for me. That was a.
S1: Flashback to Russell in the first Gladiator, and maybe some
S1: suggestions that Paul's character is his long lost son. Maybe.
S1: Did you guys think that?
S2: I was actually surprised at how much like Russell or
S2: just like Russell Energy was in the trailer, like they're
S2: really leaning on, I guess, the legacy of the first
S2: Gladiator film, which we kind of talked about being a
S2: bit of an issue. Um, I just thought, like, look,
S2: to be honest, the trailer isn't amazing, but it appealed
S2: to my specific set of tastes. Like I got hyped
S2: for the film after watching it. I did think it
S2: was very funny. My absolute favorite take from seeing this
S2: so far is a tweet that said Respect to Denzel
S2: Washington for doing no accent work and acting and sounding
S2: like a corrupt cop from Yonkers.
S7: Because.
S2: He just they even do the Denzel laugh in the trailer.
S2: Like it's just it's crazy.
S3: Oh, I thought I struggled to get through this. I
S3: can't imagine how I'm going to find the whole thing.
S3: I mean, it looked incredible.
S1: You didn't like the trailer.
S3: It was just it was just so much. And I
S3: kept thinking of, you know, there's that like Coco Chanel
S3: quote that's like, always take one thing off before you
S3: leave the house. I feel like Ridley Scott needs to
S3: learn that with special effects. It was I mean, it
S3: looked incredible, but all the water shots, boats, there were
S3: a lot of arrows there, a lot of swords in
S3: the air. I just it feels like it's going to
S3: be a lot of a lot of fighting. And I do.
S2: Think like, you know, choosing no church in the wild,
S2: it's such a big choice. And already people are a
S2: bit like, oh, is this like cheapening the legacy of Gladiator?
S2: I thought the song worked, and I mean, I love
S2: that song.
S1: I was talking to one of our colleagues, Angus, yesterday,
S1: funnily enough, about the use of like, big Kanye produced
S1: tracks in trailers, and there's a few really great examples,
S1: like power I think was used in The Social Network. Uh,
S1: Black Skinhead was used in something around that same time
S1: as well. There's something about like that maximalist sound that
S1: gets you really excited. Also, just the repetition of the
S1: line about like the Colosseum again and again while we're
S1: looking at shots of the Colosseum. It's a little bit obvious,
S1: but but still pretty fun.
S2: It is funny, though, because I saw like this, you know,
S2: have you seen that Kanye has like texted someone saying
S2: he's retiring from music? Like, do you reckon he saw
S2: the trailer and was like, fuck, this is it for me?
S7: I'm out.
S1: Um, it was Wolf of Wall Street was Black Skinhead,
S1: I think.
S3: I was surprised to see the Russell throwback in the trailer.
S3: And then I was wondering, are they going to do
S3: the are you not entertained line?
UU: Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?
S1: So I was generally excited about this trailer and like
S1: I really in this era. Yeah, it's hit and miss. Uh,
S1: The Last Jewel. Really, really good. But we talked about
S1: this Napoleon. Not as good. I don't have super high
S1: hopes for this, but I thought the trailer looked fun.
S1: But yeah, two bits that worried me. One. what you
S1: just said. Mel Russell's not in this film, and he's
S1: very upset about not being in this film, so using
S1: him and his story so heavily feels like a bit
S1: unfair to to rusty. The other thing I'm doubling down
S1: on the Paul Mescal, uh, situation here. I'm not saying
S1: that he's not a good actor, but, you know, we
S1: talk about women actresses who have, like, you know, that
S1: kind of meme of a period film with a woman actress.
S1: And the line is like, I can't believe her because
S1: she's like, seen Instagram to talk about this with like Elle,
S1: Elle Fanning and stuff. They're like, this just doesn't make sense.
S1: She's got like a face and a look for a
S1: modern environment. I feel like Paul Mescal has that too. Like,
S1: this is a guy who has just left Laneway Festival
S1: and walked into the set of Gladiator two. It doesn't
S1: really work for me.
S2: Yes, I completely agree. Like he just we kind of
S2: spoke about this on text, like Russell at least looked
S2: like rough. And, you know, I could believe that he was,
S2: you know, a slave that came good. Whereas Paul Mescal
S2: just doesn't have like, he seriously, he basically made us
S2: be wearing the fucking short shorts. Like, it just doesn't.
S1: Fully, fully. He somehow managed to parlay the short, short
S1: thing into a movie where he can show off his
S1: legs and his manicured beard, which doesn't feel era appropriate,
S1: I'm sorry to say. Yeah, I.
S3: Feel like this is one of those cases where, like,
S3: the kind of paratext around him is going to influence
S3: how we view the film. And maybe it wasn't the
S3: wisest casting choice, but then who would have you like?
S3: Who would you prefer to see as a gladiator apart
S3: from each other?
S2: I mean, Osman would be a great casting. Probably.
S7: Probably more appropriate.
S2: To be honest. I know someone that's like a bit
S2: like ugly. Beautiful. Like Jesse Plemons would be good. Like,
S2: stick that motherfucker in Gladiator. Yes.
S3: Okay, I like yeah, I can see that.
S1: That's a great, great call. The other trailer that dropped
S1: this week that I got excited about. I don't think
S1: I've talked to you guys about it yet. F1 starring
S1: Brad Pitt, Red.
S8: Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, Aston, now McLaren all have a speed
S8: on the straights. Our shot is battling in the turns.
S8: We need to build our car for combat.
S9: How am I supposed to make that safe?
S8: Who said anything about safe?
S1: Directed by Joseph Kosinski, who did Top Gun Maverick, which
S1: was an awesome, awesome, awesome film. The trailer didn't like
S1: reveal a lot. There was like, a lot of Queen
S1: and just cars racing around. Apparently they filmed a lot
S1: of this film at actual Grand Prix like around the World.
S1: I'm not a huge F1 head, but I've been to
S1: the Grand Prix, I enjoy it. I really like Brad Pitt,
S1: I like sports films. This looks pretty fun. How you
S1: guys finding the vibes on this one?
S3: I was shocked about how little this trailer revealed about
S3: the film. I think Brad has like one line in
S3: it and then the rest of it is just car shots.
S3: I kept waiting for like, the plot to be shown. Um,
S3: I'm excited about this. I like F1 films, I like
S3: the F1, love the grid walk he was on. Actually,
S3: I saw them chasing Brad Pitt on the grid walk
S3: just over the weekend. I'm um. I'm excited about this film.
S3: I think it will be good.
S2: Yeah, I think so too. I from what I could
S2: piece together, like from the trailer, it seems like. So
S2: Javier Bardem obviously plays like a team principal, which I think.
S3: Is.
S2: Really good, really good casting. Like he looks like that,
S2: but and then what? So it seems like Brad is
S2: maybe the older driver, and there's that young dude that
S2: we see in the teaser trailer who's like, looks like,
S2: you know, kind of the Lewis Hamilton superstar, I'm guessing.
S1: And the films produced or ep'd by Lewis Hamilton. So
S1: I think he's putting a bit of himself in there. Yeah.
S2: Right. So I mean, like, I don't know, I think
S2: Brad Pitt is such a funny one right now. He's
S2: at a stage of his career where he's just kind
S2: of like doing whatever he probably wants to spend time doing,
S2: and this very much seems like that. But yeah, I mean,
S2: I am a big Brad guy, too, in news that
S2: will shock nobody. So I will definitely go and see this. Yeah,
S2: a lot of.
S1: People saying he's too old to play an F1 driver
S1: and I like I mean firstly it's a movie like
S1: relax everyone, take a deep breath. Tom Cruise is too
S1: old to be a Top Gun pilot. That's also the case.
S1: But I think his character is supposed to be like
S1: a retired driver who comes out of retirement to help
S1: train a new. But that's a cool story. That's like
S1: a framework that I'm into, like a creed, sort of,
S1: you know, thing going on.
S2: Imagine the insurance overheads on getting Brad Pitt to be
S2: allowed to drive an F1 car. But I mean, if
S2: Nicole Kidman has taught us anything, we'll talk about her shortly.
S2: You're never too old to play something that doesn't.
S3: You never too old to make your dreams come true.
S7: Correct.
S1: Well, I mean, let's get to that one today. Today
S1: on the show, we're going to talk about something I've
S1: wanted to discuss for a while, and that is kind
S1: of what the hell is going on with Australian music
S1: right now. The Aria charts show that Australian artists are
S1: regularly struggling to break into the top 50. The biggest
S1: Australian acts that are breaking in are acts from like 40,
S1: 50 years ago, like AC, DC and crowded House. Generally speaking,
S1: it's very, very hard for local, younger, up and coming,
S1: even successful acts to get recognition, to get airplay, to
S1: get featured on streaming platforms, to sell tickets to shows.
S1: We're going to take a look at what's going on
S1: and what could be done to shift things a little bit.
S1: We're also going to take a look at the second
S1: half of the Bear season three, whether our views on
S1: this season have shifted as we make our way through
S1: the show. But first up, you alluded to this Thomas
S1: Nicole Kidman, something we got to talk about earlier this year.
S1: Amazon gave us the idea of you, the age gap
S1: romantic comedy starring Anne Hathaway and Nicholas Galitzine. I thought
S1: it was fine. A lot of people didn't like it.
S1: But yeah, just, you know, it's a it's a light, cheap,
S1: fun comedy from from Amazon. And a couple of weeks ago,
S1: Netflix gave us their version of what is literally the
S1: same story. Essentially, it's a family Affair stars Nicole Kidman
S1: and Zac Efron. It's another age gap romantic comedy, where
S1: Nicole Kidman plays an older woman who has a meet
S1: cute with a famous younger man. They start dating. Drama ensues.
S1: The film went to number one pretty much straight away
S1: on Netflix. This is a very cursed film. I have
S1: to say. I felt quite grim about the state of
S1: the world and of cinema watching this movie. Let's talk
S1: about it. Well, what were your guys top line reactions
S1: to A family affair?
S3: I thought a family affair made the idea of you
S3: look like a nuanced and poignant movie. Yes.
S1: Thank you, thank you.
S3: Which I didn't think at the time. But now, in comparison,
S3: the idea of you wasn't so bad. I agree with you. Also,
S3: I think I'm very confused because there's lots of think
S3: pieces going around that are like, these are really great for,
S3: you know, showing that older women have lives and can
S3: have sexual desire and rediscover themselves. Like, I think we've
S3: all been seduced by this because I don't actually know
S3: if that's what's really going on here. I mean, the
S3: women in this in both of the shows, a they're
S3: a certain type of woman. Like they essentially function as
S3: like authenticators for the man, like they're the ones who
S3: can show who they really are to themselves, but then
S3: they're also the same type of woman that's allowed to
S3: experience this kind of love affair. They're like both artists
S3: or in the art space. Anne Hathaway was a curator, and, um,
S3: Nicole Kidman is a Pulitzer Prize winning writer. Um, so
S3: I guess that's suggesting that they're in open minded communities,
S3: and then they're both kind of recovering from either a
S3: husband that's passed away or a traumatic relationship. So they're,
S3: you know, it's not like this is what they do
S3: all the time. This is an exceptional moment. And then
S3: they're both have to have daughters who can be like, yeah,
S3: but they're still maternal, right? Like they're still anchored in
S3: their in their motherhood. Um, I don't know. Yeah. I
S3: just think these things are really problematic. And the whole
S3: basis of them is that we're meant to experience shock
S3: at this relationship, which in itself is kind of problematic. Anyway.
S3: I think they've dressed it up all glossy, and they're
S3: telling us that this is empowering and good stuff, but
S3: I just don't think it is.
S2: I mean, that's a super smart take. I was basically like,
S2: Is Kathy Bates in Money Trouble?
S7: Like, is she a gambler?
S2: I could see her, like slapping the slot machine. What
S2: is she doing in this movie? And even every scene
S2: she has, I think she's like, what am I doing
S2: in this movie? Uh, it was a very strange use of, like.
S2: I don't know if either of you guys have seen
S2: the paper boy.
S1: Oh, yeah. Great. That was another romantic drama between Nicole.
S2: And so they had, like, a vibe in that. That
S2: was a very different tone, that film. And, like, it's
S2: just so strange to drop in, you know, like Kathy Bates,
S2: Nicole Kidman, Zac Efron, each in their own right, pretty
S2: good at what they do and then just completely leave
S2: them floundering. This movie, it felt like it almost was
S2: close to me. It was like an Irish wish type
S2: film the way it was. It was like so aggressively lit.
S2: Everything felt fake. It, it may as well have been
S2: like shot completely on like studio lots. It was just so,
S2: so weird. The writing was appalling and like, what's so
S2: strange is that later this year, Nicole is going to
S2: do her first A24 film, Baby Girl, which is like
S2: a very similar setup. She plays like a high powered
S2: CEO who has an affair with a young intern. It's
S2: going to be like Harris Dickinson from The Iron Claw.
S2: And like, you know, that movie will be like, I mean,
S2: presumably ten times better. It's just. Yeah, I mean, it
S2: is kind of I think in this day and age,
S2: we have to see these films as a gift because
S2: it's rare that you get such a bad, you know, token.
S2: It's rare you get such a bad product that we've
S2: spoken so much about the whole mid era. This was
S2: truly a bad gift from Netflix.
S3: My theory on the Nicole Kidman is that I think
S3: she has played a string of kind of quote unquote,
S3: prestige TV characters where she's often, ah, uh, plays a, a,
S3: a woman who's going through it, who's complicated and is
S3: in complicated relationships. I'm thinking of expats, big little lies. Um,
S3: there was that crime, one she was in as well. Um,
S3: and now maybe she's trying to do a rebrand to
S3: show that Nicole Kidman can do these softer, funnier roles.
S1: In terms of the overall structural issues with this film
S1: and these types of films. Mel, I couldn't agree with
S1: you more. I think they're trying to, like, convince us
S1: that we should feel good and like, be stoked that
S1: they're showing us older women being sexually active when these
S1: are kind of some of the most weirdly morally repressed
S1: films around. I mean, at least the idea of you
S1: had like multiple attempts to show Anne Hathaway, like trying
S1: to be sexy. This film has one sort of sex
S1: scene that is interrupted by the daughter, and the rest
S1: of it is just her feeling guilty about the whole thing.
S1: I don't think the politics of these movies is something
S1: to get particularly excited about, but then the actual specific
S1: mechanics of this, like the first scene where we meet
S1: Nicole Kidman and Kathy Bates, it's written like the script
S1: was done by I. The performances are ridiculous. The setup
S1: is ridiculous. In that shot, there are something like two Oscars,
S1: four Emmys, eight Golden Globes and a BAFTA. And I'm
S1: just like, what have we done to deserve this? Right now? This.
S1: And it's obviously a money play from everyone involved and
S1: they're allowed to get that bag. But at what point
S1: do we stand up and say actors and streamers? Making
S1: stuff like this devalues the craft of cinema to such
S1: an extent that audience expectations over time erode, and that
S1: they don't understand what a good film is anymore. We
S1: end up with just 100 of these things a year.
S1: Like this is why I say it's cursed. I don't
S1: think it's just a bad movie. I think in 20
S1: years time, when people write about how Hollywood and the
S1: world devolved into the grim state that it will inevitably
S1: devolve into, they'll be like a family affair was was
S1: a key moment in human history.
S2: Let's also not forget all of Zach's Kids Teen Choice
S2: Awards that he brings to the table.
S1: Well, okay. And so speaking of Zach, the other thing
S1: about this movie and I want to be careful how
S1: I talk about this one.
S2: I can talk about this fucked up face.
S7: Is.
S1: Zac Efron. Looks he looks unusual. And, you know, he
S1: he did have an accident, and he had, like, reconstructive
S1: jaw surgery. And his body and his face. It looks unusual, right.
S1: And I would say he looks significantly older than his
S1: 36 years. And I would say Nicole Kidman looks quite
S1: remarkable for her 50 years. So this is an age
S1: gap comedy where we're supposed to be like, Nicole Kidman
S1: is an older woman and Zac Efron is the younger
S1: like hot guy. She looks younger than him. And a
S1: lot of key points in this movie that just deflates
S1: the entire concept of the film. Surely I'm not the
S1: only one who felt kind of weird about that.
S2: I think on a base level it just was distracting. Like,
S2: I know he, you know, he had an accident and
S2: then he had jaw surgery or whatever, but like, I mean,
S2: I suspect in only my opinion that he like, added
S2: a couple of things to the to the jaw surgery.
S2: Just got a tune up and I just found it
S2: really distracting. Like he doesn't, you know, we had like
S2: that real run of like, heaps of Zac Efron movies.
S2: And he was great, like really funny all the time,
S2: like bad neighbors, all that stuff. And then like, now
S2: he's just a bit it's like he just looks very different.
S2: And in a movie where he's playing like the hot,
S2: attractive Hollywood star and like, his aesthetic is a big
S2: part of the character, I don't know, it then becomes
S2: a part of what makes the movie not work.
S3: We should pull the Google data on like the spike
S3: of the search. How old is Zac Efron? Because that
S3: is exactly what I did when I turned this on,
S3: because I was very confused.
S1: Yeah, it's also sad because he was in a really
S1: good and again, criminally underwatched film from the last year,
S1: The Iron Claw, an A24 movie, Sean Durkin's film about
S1: the real life wrestling family, the Von Von Erichs. And
S1: he was really good in that, like, still looked unusual,
S1: but it made sense for him to be so built
S1: playing like a wrestler. So all of these people can
S1: do great stuff. And you mentioned the Cole film. She
S1: will do great stuff. And yeah, look, as usual, I
S1: could just be being overdramatic and no one will ever
S1: think about this film again. But it does leave you
S1: feeling like a little bit weird inside that this exists
S1: and probably cost millions and millions of dollars at a
S1: time when so much of the entertainment industry is struggling
S1: to make ends meet, it just doesn't feel like the
S1: budgets are working in the direction they should be.
S2: It's very funny that she's now she's basically. Nicole is
S2: working with all of the Iron Claw family members except
S2: for Jeremy Allen White.
S1: Yeah, yeah.
S2: There's your Segway.
S1: Speaking of Jeremy Allen White, uh, let's talk about the
S1: second half of the Bear season three. Quick recap. We
S1: didn't have a great time with the first five episodes
S1: of this show. We thought they were largely treading water.
S1: There wasn't a lot of plot or character development. There
S1: was heaps of filler, not a lot of ideas. Annoyed
S1: by some of the stylistic and experimental choices we have
S1: not yet talked about episode six of ten, which we're
S1: going to talk about now. And those spoilers for all
S1: of season three of The Bear. I want to get
S1: into it with you guys. But one of the things
S1: that occurred to me about the second half of the show,
S1: which generally speaking, I found significantly better than the first half,
S1: this show has done that rare thing where it's kind
S1: of accidentally struck gold with a format and a setting
S1: and characters that are actually, at their best, quite charming,
S1: quite fun, quite relatable, quite interesting, but it kind of
S1: almost doesn't know what to do with it. And you
S1: think about shows like The Office, which is a sitcom.
S1: It's very different to the show in a lot of ways.
S1: But the thing that worked about The Office is you
S1: just kind of care about these characters and whether they
S1: are having fun, whether they are having some emotional moments.
S1: You don't care about the paper company of it all,
S1: you don't care about the mechanics of Dunder Mifflin. You're
S1: just like, I want to see this character explore their
S1: feelings with whatever character. And that's really interesting. And I
S1: think this show, particularly in the second half, is at
S1: its best when there's just great characters who've been built
S1: up to be really rich and interesting, talking about life
S1: and family and marriage and these ideas. But every time
S1: we kind of have fun in those spaces, the show
S1: pulls us back to the kitchen and Carmy and the
S1: world of fine dining that I think just like, deflates
S1: all the excitement and the fun and the energy of
S1: the show. And I think even though I thought the
S1: second half was better, it just didn't get that mix right.
S1: And ultimately, I felt like this was one of the
S1: most disappointing series of TV that I've seen this year,
S1: because the expectations were high and it just didn't really deliver.
S1: So sorry to say I felt pretty sad about it.
S1: I want to know what you guys think.
S3: I think that's really well put. I think we were
S3: all love bombed by this show. It started out as
S3: something particularly you, Thomas Mitchell. It started out as something
S3: really great and then it just couldn't deliver on keep
S3: delivering that. And we were all left being like, but
S3: you were something different, right? We like we were right
S3: to fall in love with you in the first place.
S3: But yeah, I think the second half did get better.
S3: But to me the tone of it was so inconsistent
S3: and the pacing of the episodes so varied. Not in
S3: a good way. It was almost like each episode was
S3: a vignette. But then they didn't all stand together in
S3: some episodes stood up better than others. It started to
S3: get a bit more momentum going in this second half.
S3: There were a few more plot things that developed and
S3: there were great cameos, but I don't think it was
S3: enough to save it. And even the standout episodes to
S3: me were still, they were great, but they were still
S3: kind of very predictable bear territory.
S2: Yeah, I know, again, like I was, I was so
S2: prepared to like the back half and I did like
S2: it better. But it is funny, you know, that we
S2: obviously did part one last week and, you know, always
S2: curious to get a vibe on what everyone's feeling and like,
S2: you know, I shared the podcast on my Instagram and like,
S2: literally I kind of had maybe like 20 replies and
S2: not one person was like, ah, I'm really loving this season.
S2: Like everyone is feeling the same. I think, like there's
S2: just a disappointment because we are in a funny time
S2: as well when there's not heaps of buzzy TV shows around,
S2: like we're all kind of hanging our hat on this
S2: and then like The White Lotus next year, the White
S2: Lotus next year is bad. I'm going to be like
S2: just completely depressed.
S7: But like.
S2: Everyone was psyched for this. And especially I think the
S2: trajectory of the show in between seasons has just like completely,
S2: you know, all the stars are really famous now. And
S2: so everyone was just like, so ready. And then, you know,
S2: it was probably setting itself up for disappointment, uh, Uh,
S2: and even I think going into the second half, having
S2: read so much about like, oh, you know, the napkins
S2: episode by Ayo is going to be great. Ice chips
S2: is a really great two hander. I still don't know
S2: if it really like lifted the season for me. Everything
S2: that the bear did so well in seasons one and two,
S2: all of the tricks have just been completely like mismanaged
S2: or overused. And I just think, yeah, like the show
S2: has lost its way. It's forgotten. Like what makes it joyful.
S2: And I never really thought I'd say this, but, like,
S2: I feel like Osmond a few times you've been like,
S2: would this be better as a 20 episode like office
S2: style comedy? And I'm actually kind of agreeing with you now. Maybe,
S2: maybe that's where the show could really shine, but instead
S2: it's become fixated on like being too many things, like
S2: the trauma drama and a workplace drama and a commentary on,
S2: you know, the state of fine dining and, you know,
S2: restaurants in general. It's just so convoluted and hamstrung by
S2: trying to do too many things. Yeah, I think.
S3: They start again and do a Sydney spin off like that.
S3: Would that's what I think we all need.
S1: It's so funny for a show that is about fine
S1: dining and restaurants, every time they talk about that, it's
S1: when I lose the most amount of interest. And we
S1: talked about this last week. I couldn't be more in
S1: the bag for this. As a guy who loves prestige
S1: television and loves fine dining so much that I co-own
S1: a fine dining restaurant, But the show's treatment of that
S1: stuff is so grating and self-indulgent. Honestly, like the finale
S1: of this season took away a lot of the momentum
S1: that I thought the last few episodes had built up
S1: the first half of that finale, just being these real world,
S1: top tier chefs just sitting around a table, giving us
S1: the same vibe on fine dining that we've heard for
S1: three seasons. This is about family. This is about cooking
S1: to make people happy. This is about service. It's like
S1: we know that. Like, I don't care about the woman
S1: who owns Milk Bar. Lecture me on this stuff. And
S1: I think the other thing about the show's treatment of
S1: fine dining is all of these ideas about it being
S1: about hospitality and care and nurturing. The kinds of voices
S1: in the show are these top tier, super rich, elite
S1: chefs who run chain restaurants all around the country. It's like,
S1: that's not really what they practice, so it just feels
S1: like quite hollow to me. I can't get excited at
S1: all about the conversations in the show about the actual
S1: world of Restauranting.
S3: That final episode was quite shocking in how terrible it was.
S3: I genuinely thought I was like, has the Fine Dining
S3: Institute of America sponsored this episode or something.
S7: Like right, right.
S1: At some point it became like just a, a lobbying
S1: attempt for a group of like elite restaurateurs.
S3: Yeah, yeah. And at the same time as they're trying to, like,
S3: promote the benefits of fine dining, they're trying to give
S3: us the narrative of how traumatized Carmy is, that he
S3: has to blow up everyone else's life because he's had
S3: such a horrible time learning how to, I don't know,
S3: cross a chicken's legs or whatever that whole thing was about.
S3: I just thought that last episode really was the epitome
S3: of what was wrong with the whole season its reliance
S3: on collage, its melodrama, its musical kind of heavy handedness.
S3: All of those things that we discussed from the first
S3: half were here in the second half, and then they
S3: just put the little cherry on top of the cake
S3: with this final episode.
S2: Yeah. And that's what I mean in terms of like,
S2: who is this show for now? Like I feel like
S2: in the first two seasons, you know, I don't know,
S2: none of us are really, like, super familiar. I mean,
S2: maybe you are Osment with the, like, Chicago dining scene,
S2: but there were like, you know, little snippets of people
S2: in the first two seasons that were like winks and
S2: they were like, well used. And everyone was like, oh,
S2: that's cool. That's like insidery. And now it's gone the
S2: complete wrong way. And it's like, I don't know, he's
S2: Christopher Storer. He and his sister have like a deep,
S2: you know, food background. Is he just like trying to
S2: impress these people and like, win them over by putting
S2: them in these like really famous show because it no
S2: longer felt like that was for the audience, that felt
S2: like it was for the people in the show to
S2: be like, you know, like it's weird circle jerk thing,
S2: which is like, not what the bear has ever been about.
S2: And like, you know, I do think all of that
S2: being said, there are still some really beautiful moments in
S2: these episodes. And like, I know we're going to talk
S2: about the episode that was that was great. Like, we,
S2: you know, to to go back into the world of
S2: just that one character and get this bottle episode and,
S2: you know, nothing kind of matches, I guess, like fishes
S2: or forks from last season. But I still thought the
S2: journey of Tina was good. And also it convinced me
S2: once again that the only thing I really want to
S2: eat at the bear or the beef is the Italian sandwich.
S1: Mm. Yeah. Let's talk about the stuff that was good.
S1: Like the Tina episode. I enjoyed it because it was
S1: a respite from all the wanky circle jerk stuff, and
S1: it gave me stuff that I kind of didn't know
S1: that I needed or wanted. But then when I got it,
S1: I was like, this is actually cool. Like, I didn't
S1: know anything about how long Tina had been working at
S1: that restaurant, getting an insight into her life, getting a
S1: snapshot of just like working class life in America. For
S1: someone from that kind of background and the the struggles
S1: that you experienced, the meeting with Jon Bernthal. Like, it's
S1: so good to see Jon Bernthal in the show. That
S1: was awesome. Just like 15 minutes of them sitting at
S1: a table talking about their life, their work, their dreams,
S1: what they want to achieve that felt like quite meaningful
S1: and nice and was a really good break from all
S1: the bullshit of the kami. Oh my God, it's so
S1: hard to get the wishbone out of the chicken man
S1: who gives up.
S2: That's what I mean. Like watching the two of them
S2: talk like it was. That was like a really beautiful
S2: human moment when they're like, comparing their shitty days. And he, like,
S2: goes first and then she goes next. And that's like,
S2: how many people do that every day when you're like,
S2: I'm having a bad day. Me too. Like, okay, you download,
S2: then I'll download. Like, that's the show at its very best.
S2: You know, you've just got two people in a situation.
S2: They find their way to one another and then like
S2: we go from there and it's just so much more relatable.
S2: So I just thought like that the episode worked really
S2: well and like, I thought her husband was a great character.
S2: It just. Yeah, it was it was really nice. And,
S2: you know, I thought in terms of like a great,
S2: you know, addition to her CV, the way that like
S2: the repetition of her of Tina every day, like going
S2: out to find a job, like the way it was
S2: cut together, like it looked great. So that to me
S2: was like the standout.
S3: Yeah, I think that episode is an achievement. But then
S3: when you look at it in the season overall, it
S3: just makes you more confused about what the bear is
S3: trying to do and be. And I think you're right,
S3: like the reason it was so welcomed was because we
S3: just had such a lead up of fairly average episodes,
S3: without a lot going on. I do think this show
S3: is like very kind to its characters. There was that
S3: moment in the In the Tina episode where she says
S3: something like, she's not, she doesn't, she doesn't attack all
S3: the younger people who have kind of dismissed her and
S3: rolled their eyes at her because of her background. She's
S3: very generous about it, and I do think that is
S3: something this show does sometimes, for good or for bad,
S3: that it's kind to its characters.
S1: Yeah, people are kind of like, uh, victims of circumstance
S1: and of the structures around them, rather than being individual,
S1: morally bad people. It's like what Tina is going through
S1: is a structural readjustment of the Chicago economy, where people
S1: like her are considered devalued and a whole generation of
S1: just like young, hyper addicted to work people who don't
S1: care about it because they're alienated, whatever. That's smart and.
S3: Interesting. Yeah, definitely. And very traitor with a lot of dignity.
S3: So I thought that was really good. And then obviously
S3: the other one was, uh, where sugar has her baby, um,
S3: which I thought was a very another very moving, powerful episode.
S2: Yeah, it was funny because I feel like everyone was,
S2: I guess, waiting for the return of Jamie Lee Curtis,
S2: that we all knew it was coming. And, you know,
S2: she was such a standout in fishers. I thought this
S2: episode was good too. Not quite as like I didn't
S2: lose my mind over it like everyone else did. I
S2: think Jamie Lee is so good at playing like manic
S2: like her. She gets that look in her eyes. Basically,
S2: her and Claire Danes have like, the best crazy eyes
S2: in the business. But yeah, like, I thought the episode
S2: was good and and, you know, there was some really
S2: beautiful moments. But again, it's just like, it feels so
S2: strange to be sitting here talking about the bear and being, like,
S2: almost like having to cling on to these two, like
S2: pretty good episodes as a way of like justifying the
S2: third season.
S3: This is the funeral for the bear. Mhm.
S1: Um, one other bit that I just wanted to talk
S1: about the two, two bits that are not part of
S1: those two standalone episodes that I really enjoyed, that I
S1: also think go to what the show could be at
S1: its best if it just maybe, maybe part of the
S1: issue is that Christopher Storer had two critically acclaimed seasons
S1: of the show, and the network's like, you just do
S1: whatever you want to do, and he indulged some of
S1: his instincts when it needed to be pared back a bit.
S1: The bits that I think it could focus on more
S1: when the facts who I think have just been in
S1: the show a bit too much. There's too many facts.
S1: There's I don't know whether it's about them trying to
S1: justify their comedy entry at the Emmys, which I think
S1: is maybe part of it, because there's been this constant
S1: conversation of how is the bear in the comedy category?
S1: This is like category fraud. And now they're like, no, no, no,
S1: it's funny. We've got these funny guys. Generally they they
S1: didn't do much for me. But when they go to
S1: visit Claire in the hospital, I thought that was kind
S1: of interesting. And I think, what do you do with
S1: a show that for three seasons has been set in
S1: the same venue, with the same characters? To move things forward,
S1: you kind of need to push things. You need to
S1: like introduce new characters or new settings or new drama,
S1: new tension. And this was an example of that. We're
S1: in a different space. I didn't love Claire in the
S1: second season, but I found her quite interesting. Now, two
S1: characters who've never interacted with her on screen, their dynamic,
S1: how they're talking about the relationship between her and kami.
S1: It's kind of funny. It was kind of heartfelt. That
S1: was really good. And then the other one like that
S1: was when Richie talks to his ex-wife in the playground.
S1: I wish more of the season had been Richie and
S1: his freaking out about the wedding. Basically everything that he
S1: did was really interesting. Gillian Jacobs is really good. That
S1: was also really cool. It's new characters pushing old characters
S1: in certain directions, making them grapple with change. Life circumstances.
S1: Like that's what's so good about TV as a medium
S1: is you create characters, you create settings, you think you
S1: know them, and then you throw challenges their way and
S1: you see how they fend them off. And when the
S1: show did that a bit, it was great. Overwhelmingly, the
S1: show just didn't do it. And it certainly didn't do
S1: it with Carmy, who is dealing with the same challenge
S1: he's dealt with his entire life.
S2: And to have the entire stakes of the season let
S2: rest on. A review from the Chicago Tribune like that
S2: just doesn't in this day and age. Like people just
S2: don't care. Like it's hard to get people to be
S2: as invested in, like the outcome of that as a
S2: as it was, for instance, even in the last season
S2: finale when it was like, you know, Carmy having a
S2: breakdown and possibly blowing up his relationship as well as
S2: his relationship with Richie, like, people can get around that.
S2: Whereas like, you know, cutting on, you know, a Google
S2: alert that the review from the Chicago Tribune has come
S2: in like.
S1: Honestly, what's more stressful is your Google rating dropping from
S1: like 4.7 to 4.4, because a bunch of racist people
S1: give you reviews like that is more detrimental to your
S1: financial bottom line than a review in a legacy newspaper.
S1: No offense to our wonderful colleagues at Good Food, but
S1: the economics of restaurants don't really live or die. On
S1: one review from something like the Chicago Tribune, and as
S1: if it wasn't already annoying enough to have that be
S1: the main stakes of the season, you then have uncle
S1: just be like, hey, by the way, this review is bad. Like,
S1: I'm going to destroy your restaurant.
S7: Yeah, that was not necessary.
S3: I think that you're so right like that. The elements
S3: where they push the plot forward with characters who weren't
S3: kami was when it's at its best. And the other
S3: good storyline was Sydney's wrestling about whether to leave the
S3: restaurant and go and chase up other opportunities. And considering
S3: what she's built at the bear and the fine dining
S3: restaurant versus the potential she has and how to grow,
S3: how to change, I thought that was also really interesting. Sadly,
S3: it didn't get developed much. Hopefully it will move on,
S3: but I'm really glad we've all come around to that.
S3: The kami character, the emotionally repressed chef.
S1: Happy to lord this over.
S3: Like the emotionally repressed chef who can't express himself and
S3: makes everyone else's life a living nightmare. Like, I think
S3: we're done with it. I was we're I think society
S3: has agreed that we're we're over.
S7: It's almost like.
S2: Kami brought it back. And then he killed it.
S3: Yeah, he killed it himself.
S7: Yeah.
S2: I mean, look, I haven't loved kami this season either. Obviously,
S2: I still, you know, he's still my boy. But I
S2: guess the question will be in, you know, do does
S2: the same sense of reviews spell the end of the bear?
S2: Because the reviews have generally been quite bad and, well,
S2: you know, a single bad review may not impact the
S2: restaurant in the show's universe. I don't know, I feel
S2: like definitely the spate of bad reviews for season three
S2: is going to temper expectations for season four. We assume
S2: that's probably going to be the last season anyway because
S2: they filmed them back to back, but it creates an
S2: interesting environment for season four to enter into because the
S2: show has been great. Season three, they cooked it and
S2: now we're getting this last season. Like what? What happens now?
S3: It's almost kind of a shame that they've already filmed
S3: the final season, because not that I think that it's
S3: always helpful for creators to have real feedback on their
S3: work as they're making it, but maybe in this case
S3: it would have been.
S1: Yeah, I feel like Chris Torres online enough to have
S1: been across what worked and didn't work from this season.
S1: And I think you're spot on that it might have
S1: been good to just like, have that input a little
S1: bit and dial things in a different way. We don't
S1: know though, right? Like we have talked about how it
S1: felt like this season was stretching out. Not a lot
S1: of plot very thinly. Maybe there's a lot in the
S1: chamber for season four. Like I'm still excited for it.
S1: When the show is good, it makes me feel really happy.
S1: I have some expectations that we could get something better,
S1: and I guess the advantage at this point is expectations
S1: are low so we can only be like, happily surprised.
S1: So it'll be fun to talk about it next year
S1: when the show's out. But um, yeah, sad to say,
S1: not one of our best viewing experiences this year. No.
S2: Do not let it rip. Just let it simmer a
S2: bit more.
S1: All right, let's talk about music. We cover the music
S1: industry a lot in our jobs here at the Sydney
S1: Morning Herald and The Age. And over the last couple
S1: of years there's been some pretty clear and I'd say
S1: depressing patterns about what's going on live music right now.
S1: If you're not one of the biggest artists in the world,
S1: Taylor Swift, Fred again level. It's really tough. It's tough
S1: to sell out shows. It's tough to get people to
S1: pay money to come and see you. In Australia in particular,
S1: Australian artists are really struggling to break through the traditional
S1: model of how they could make a living and boost
S1: their careers kind of doesn't work anymore. For most of
S1: the last 50 years, certainly most of our lives artists
S1: could make a buck playing in small, medium sized venues
S1: across the country. They could tour big festivals up and
S1: down the East coast. Triple J getting a song playlisted
S1: on that would give you huge amounts of coverage and
S1: attention and boost your sales. Triple J just does not
S1: rate in the way that it used to. It can't
S1: influence the tastes of Australians in the same way anymore.
S1: The biggest drivers of musical discovery now things like Spotify, YouTube,
S1: TikTok these are places where Australian artists are just getting
S1: drowned out by the sheer volume of what is going
S1: on internationally, and you can actually see this represented numerically
S1: in the Aria charts. And Mel, you're a recent addition
S1: to my Instagram follower list.
S7: Well, welcome to the madness.
S1: Yeah, welcome to the madness. Thomas, you've been there a
S1: little bit longer. You might not have witnessed this, but, um,
S1: every so often when, uh, the Aria Instagram page releases,
S1: it's like top ten Australian singles or top ten singles.
S1: I will share it because for the last like ten years,
S1: there's largely been like one song in the top 50,
S1: and that has been Vance Joy's Riptide.
S7: What a song though.
UU: Are you running down to the Riptide? Taken away to
UU: the dark side I want to be your left hand man.
S1: I love people who are close to me. You know
S1: will tease me about my obsession with that song and
S1: how it charts. For the record. I don't hate the song.
S1: I don't hate Vance Joy at all. I think it
S1: is remarkable in not a good way, that this one
S1: song is the only commercially successful Australian song for the past,
S1: like 11 years. But let's look at the Aria charts
S1: this week, for example. So in the top 50 singles
S1: on the Aria charts right now there are only three
S1: Australian artists. It's actually like 1 or 2 more than
S1: it's been for most of the year. Uh, The Kid
S1: Laroi is there with a couple of tracks, his new
S1: single and his, uh, previous one. There's a DJ. I
S1: don't know if you guys are across this guy Cyril. Uh,
S1: he kind of just reworks of songs he has remixed
S1: stumbling in the Suzi Quatro and Chris Norman track. He's
S1: up There. Good on DJ Cyril. And then there's Vance
S1: Joy with Riptide, a song that was released 11 years ago.
S1: That is what is charting in terms of Australian artists
S1: right now. And when you look at specifically the top
S1: 20 Australian singles right now, it's kind of even more grim.
S1: Four of them out of the top 20 are AC
S1: DC songs released like at least 30 or 40 years ago.
S1: There's another six songs that are at least 10 or
S1: 15 years old, so that's half of the top 20
S1: being 15 years or older. There are two different versions
S1: of gorgeous. Somebody I Used to Know like, this is
S1: it's not good, right? And I guess the question is,
S1: rant aside, Oz, like, what does this mean? And maybe
S1: the way to start the conversation with you guys, I
S1: ran into our colleague Marnie, who's on the sports team here,
S1: and she was wearing a jumper. A client liaison jumper
S1: looked really cool and I was like, oh, we're talking
S1: about Australian music today. Like, are you listening to any
S1: Australian acts that are new or interesting? And she's like, no,
S1: I don't even know where I would discover Australian music anymore.
S1: And all three of us work in this industry, so
S1: we're sort of like a bit of a biased sample.
S1: But putting aside getting media releases from labels or from
S1: acts themselves, how were you guys, if at all, you
S1: are discovering new Australian songs or music?
S3: I think that really hits the nail on the head.
S3: Like that question summarizes what the issue is, which is
S3: that Australian artists are finding it impossible to break through
S3: and to reach new audiences. When you think about, like
S3: the traditional methods of discovery, they're no longer there. Triple
S3: J is struggling, we know, to retain a Gen Z audience.
S3: We know that music street presses are not thriving in
S3: the way that they used to. And we also know
S3: that the charts and I don't think this is the
S3: answer to the problem, but it is obviously part of
S3: a bigger discussion. The charts aren't reflecting the Australian acts
S3: that are coming through, because the way that they're the
S3: data is collected is obviously privileging visibility, which is why
S3: you get superstars monopolizing it and why you get old
S3: favourites staying on the list. So I think that is
S3: the issue is that people aren't finding new artists. The
S3: venues are collapsing, as we know, during Covid more than
S3: 1000 closed down. So that would have been another traditional
S3: method live music. And that's not there anymore. How do
S3: I find I'm like, I guess I'm pretty lucky in
S3: the job that I'm in. We often get approached by
S3: record companies who are showing their new acts, and that
S3: is actually how I've discovered a lot of Australian music,
S3: and particularly that like peaches PRC. Every so often we
S3: will do, uh, kind of young music to watch story.
S3: So I guess that's really how I find it through
S3: this like position, lucky position that I'm in. But if
S3: you're not in industries where you're getting that kind of access,
S3: I don't know where you're finding it.
S2: Yeah, it is really strange. Like, I, I feel like
S2: I have had like, really strange experiences that speak to,
S2: I guess, so many of the problems that we have, like, okay,
S2: for instance, when you get into the car and you drive,
S2: most people I would say have their automatically your Bluetooth
S2: hooks up to your car and you listen to music
S2: on streaming that you've already been listening to. Uh, but like,
S2: you know, every so often, if you just like chuck
S2: the radio on, I will regularly like if I have
S2: triple J on, I hear a song I like, I'll
S2: then like look up that artist on my Spotify. And
S2: then eventually, once you've like, say you listen to their album,
S2: then you get to like the artist radio. That to
S2: me has been a path to find new stuff, but
S2: that's such a convoluted way of having to, like, stumble
S2: onto new Australian artists. So I remember like for ages
S2: when I first got into Bad dreams, then through the
S2: bad dreams like Artist Radio, I found all these other
S2: Australian bands that you know, are similar ish and that
S2: opens up. But like that is a very that's a
S2: lot of steps to get to new music.
S1: Yeah, totally. And Spotify is a really interesting one. I
S1: was trying to see if there are any new music
S1: Australian Spotify playlist, and there were some that you think
S1: might be new Australian songs, and they're not like Hot
S1: Hits Australia. That's a playlist. What if I curate? It's
S1: not Australian music, it's just like big international tracks that
S1: are curated for Australian listeners. That's a bit confusing. I
S1: like drill music, as you guys know, and so Spotify
S1: served me an Aussie drill playlist and I thought, well,
S1: this might be some new drill tracks. No, it's like
S1: in the beginning by one for if you know, you
S1: know by hooligan houses are like five six year old songs.
S1: Cosby Sweater by the Hilltop Hoods, which is absolutely not
S1: a drill song. It's on that playlist. And I think
S1: if it wasn't for the work that I do or
S1: the fact that I have a lot of friends and
S1: kind of former colleagues who work in the music industry
S1: or are artists, I.
S7: Would.
S1: Generally really struggle. And if that's how I feel, I
S1: don't blame normal people for not understanding what is happening
S1: in the Australian music landscape right now. And I think
S1: it's so it's so interesting because we talked about triple J,
S1: we talk about triple J a couple of times that
S1: was created to basically solve the same problem that we're
S1: having now. There wasn't an Australian radio station that played
S1: Australian music to younger people, and there was concerns that
S1: Australian artists and Australian audiences were going to miss out
S1: on a generation of sounds, ideas, storytelling. So the government
S1: needed to create something to nurture it, because ultimately, I
S1: think there's a general belief that it's important to have
S1: a creative and artistic community in Australia, and it's important
S1: for artists to be able to tell Australian stories musically
S1: and otherwise. So the government did it. Now the idea
S1: of like the government creating its own streaming platform, or
S1: even trying to regulate streaming platforms to encourage Australian music
S1: feels pretty far fetched. Like they can't even really do
S1: it right with meta to keep journalists employed. We've talked
S1: about streaming quotas on things like Netflix that was supposed
S1: to happen this year. It looks like from people I
S1: speak to in the industry, that might not happen before
S1: the next federal election. I can't really get a handle
S1: on whether people think or realize that this is a
S1: significant issue. I'm interested to get your guys vibes on that.
S1: Like you're talking about the venue shutting down Mel. I
S1: think there's a bit of conversation about that. There's a
S1: bit of conversation about the issues in festival land, like
S1: there are government inquiries looking at live music. I don't
S1: know if enough people are really across the fact that
S1: just the bare bones nature of I'm an artist trying
S1: to make a song and get that song played and
S1: get people to listen to it, which is the very
S1: base level of how this industry is supposed to work,
S1: is kind of fundamentally broken. Do people know that?
S2: I mean, I would say from the, you know, sample
S2: size of the people I know, and we've obviously discussed
S2: that they're not exactly the greatest people sometimes. But like
S2: I would say that they they not only do they
S2: not know, but like perhaps they don't care, which is
S2: like depressing and perhaps an indictment on like, I don't
S2: know where people in this particular, you know, day and
S2: age in the moment we exist in right now value,
S2: you know, the importance of new music. But like I
S2: just don't think they do like, I like it's it's
S2: sad to say, but I definitely feel like even my,
S2: my friends who aren't really into like, you know, entertainment
S2: and music and the arts and stuff, like in terms
S2: of where new music ranks in their list of priorities,
S2: like they'll be way more across, like what's going on
S2: in film and TV and that landscape, as opposed to
S2: like new music. I don't know, I feel like as
S2: you get older, unfortunately, people get rusted on to what
S2: they know. And the passion for discovering new music especially,
S2: is something that like dulls. And unless you happen to
S2: be in the industry, which we all are, people don't
S2: really go seeking it out in the way that they go.
S2: Seeking out the new TV series, the new film, because
S2: that stuff gets fed to us more and more. And so,
S2: I don't know, it's like on so many different fronts,
S2: I think, you know, to be a new group or
S2: a new artist, you're facing like a lot of different battles.
S3: Yeah. And I also don't know if people fully realize
S3: the necessity of protecting Australian culture and why it's important
S3: to support Australian new artists in particular, and not just
S3: in music. Obviously, this applies to all different fields, but
S3: I think that is a historic thing that goes well.
S3: Back to like the cultural cringe and how we've consistently
S3: devalued the role of the arts. And like, I don't know, even,
S3: you know, Stem is important, but I think Stem, sport,
S3: all these other things are historically valued over the role
S3: that storytellers have. Um, and I think that it's because
S3: it's hard to measure. Right. Like, although sometimes you can
S3: measure it when you have certain film franchises or, you know,
S3: we talk about Bluey a bit, but I think because
S3: it's hard to measure, these new artists can miss out.
S3: But what they're bringing is not necessarily financial, but it's
S3: a way of, you know, reflecting our culture back to ourselves,
S3: which I think people, until it's gone, you don't really
S3: realize what you're what you're losing.
S1: Yeah. And I think in that vein, one thing I
S1: wanted to mention is the closure after 25 years of
S1: the Sydney independent record label Elefant Traks, who a big
S1: part of the independent music scene for decades, particularly hip
S1: hop acts like The Herd, Urthboy, Hermitude, L-fresh The Lion,
S1: Horrorshow like these are independent acts nurtured by a music
S1: label that could make eke out a living, we should
S1: say never super financially lucrative. And those are artists that
S1: represented very specific parts of Australia, whether it's like indigenous
S1: acts like The Last Connection, whether it's DJs from the
S1: Blue Mountains like Hermitude, whether it's kids from the inner West,
S1: whether it's L-fresh from Western Sydney, they told stories about
S1: the places and communities they came from, and they could
S1: only exist because of a musical infrastructure and a label
S1: that existed to support them. With that label closing and
S1: basically no one creating new labels because it doesn't make
S1: any sense. As we've been talking about, there's literally like
S1: stories and genres and kinds of music that will just
S1: not really hit. And maybe the other thing to say
S1: is none of this is a knock on artists or
S1: the people trying to promote them. I'm not mad at
S1: or saying there aren't good Australian artists. I'm going to
S1: name some good Australian artists I think people should check
S1: out in a minute. It's more the structure around how
S1: all this stuff works is making it very hard for
S1: them to succeed. I do think, though, in some major
S1: labels this is a really interesting thing. So a few
S1: people have broken down their numbers for me over the
S1: past couple of weeks, and they've I've been asking around
S1: different artists and different industry people. Where do you think
S1: some of these key issues lie and who's responsible? They
S1: made the point that in the olden days, like say, ten,
S1: 15 years ago, about 90% of the revenue from major
S1: labels came from selling new music because people had to
S1: buy albums. Right. Once you own the Fleetwood Mac Best
S1: of album, you don't need to buy it again. You
S1: just play it all the time. So for labels to
S1: make money, they have to find and break and nurture
S1: new acts to convince you to buy new records. With
S1: the advent of streaming, the numbers have totally flipped. About 90%
S1: of the money comes from streaming back catalogue stuff. So
S1: you do listen to Fleetwood Mac on Spotify rather than
S1: playing the album now, and every time you do that
S1: generates money for the label and for the band. So
S1: major labels don't have the same incentive they used to
S1: to find and nurture and help break Australian artists. There
S1: are big labels in this country who have cut back
S1: their A&R departments, and they're the people who are in
S1: charge of finding and nurturing acts because it's way less
S1: risky and more economically safe to spend $1 million saying,
S1: go and listen to Fleetwood Mac records than it is
S1: to say, hey, this new artist Thomas Mitchell's got a
S1: great album, give it a red hot go. And so
S1: there is that side of it as well, and I
S1: don't yeah, I don't know what the fix is. I
S1: don't run these labels, but there's a lot of factors
S1: that are all aligning to make the Australian music landscape
S1: feel pretty grim at the.
S7: Moment Then I.
S2: Mean, a lot of buzz around that Thomas Mitchell guy,
S2: by the way, you guys should check him out. I
S2: think that's what's so interesting though, because like obviously we're
S2: seeing this like clogging of the charts with old artists like,
S2: you know, as it was, Harry styles has been on
S2: there basically since it dropped Ed Sheeran. Like all these
S2: people that we just like, you know, obviously Taylor and
S2: I saw that in, in the UK in the Official
S2: Charts Company, they changed their rules a couple of years
S2: ago to limit the amount of songs that one artist
S2: can have on the chart. So yeah, interesting. One artist
S2: can only have a limit of three songs in the
S2: UK chart at any given time. So, you know, that
S2: was like actually created in response to Ed Sheeran's, um, whatever,
S2: whichever math symbol album he released that was really good.
S2: But like so so that means that, I guess, could
S2: that be an incentive to a label? Because, you know,
S2: obviously charting still means a lot. It makes you eligible
S2: for a bunch of awards and labels, still want the
S2: prestige and recognition that comes with charting. So if we
S2: do institute rules like that here, so you can only have,
S2: you know, you know, three songs from an artist or
S2: you could have like there's been suggestions of doing like
S2: Time limits. So a song can only chart for this
S2: long or it has to be within this amount of
S2: time of release. And then I guess you create a
S2: bit more of a framework around what is allowed to chart.
S2: So then because obviously, as you said, the nature of
S2: streaming is that people just go and listen to whatever
S2: they want to listen to, and it's often just their
S2: favourite songs from 15 years ago. And that way you
S2: can kind of like maybe like massage the charts back
S2: into a more contemporary reflection of like what is going
S2: on and what is actually being listened to as opposed
S2: to people's favorite shit.
S3: But I don't know if I do think that that like,
S3: I think it's interesting to talk about the charts. Um,
S3: and I think the Arias have changed their charts and
S3: how they collect their data over the years. Um, but
S3: I do think that would be a bit that's a
S3: bit of a distraction from the issue. Like, I don't
S3: know if you want to massage the data to necessarily
S3: tell a kind of story to, to Australian artists like
S3: you may as well just address the issue of why
S3: Australian artists are struggling so much rather than be like, well,
S3: here's the data all polished up. I mean, we do
S3: it for your story. Sometimes we we twist the data
S3: to look good for you and it doesn't address the issue. Right. Like,
S3: you know what I mean? Like it's a distraction in
S3: a way.
S2: But I think you could address all problems at the
S2: same time. Do you know what I mean? Like, rather than. Yeah,
S2: just like papering over the cracks of the Da to
S2: make it paint a pretty picture that could be part
S2: of a larger solution.
S1: Yeah. Like what merit is there in a chart that
S1: tells you that AC, DC have four songs in the
S1: top 20 right now? That to me is an issue.
S1: It's like maybe I think all the ideas you suggested, Thomas,
S1: make sense. Maybe there's another one there, which is like,
S1: just have a chart that is for like music that's
S1: been released in the past 12 months. So we know
S1: what Australian acts that are making new music, how are
S1: they doing? What are people listening to? What is hitting
S1: doesn't solve all the problems. I completely agree with you, Mel,
S1: but if like a young Australian act, someone is going
S1: to mention Nick Ward has a really successful song because
S1: he's been playlisted by triple J, he's been announced as
S1: Troye Sivan's support act for the tour later this year.
S1: There's maybe a little bit of buzz around him if
S1: he can get the chance to track in a chart
S1: that isn't crowded out by AC, DC and a 30
S1: year old gorgeous song or 20 year old gorgeous song, like,
S1: maybe that could put him on the radar a little
S1: bit so these things could potentially work in tandem.
S2: But I feel like the other thing we probably need
S2: to mention is, well, two things. Obviously, I think in
S2: response to all of this, like last year, Tony Burke
S2: announced the creation of Music Australia, which is basically a
S2: body that is dedicated to, I think one of their
S2: biggest priorities is addressing discoverability, because that's what really is
S2: so hard right now. But I suppose we probably have
S2: to discuss like TikTok, because that is where, you know,
S2: the classic triple J demo exists now is on TikTok.
S2: And obviously there's been so many different issues in terms
S2: of like licensing of songs and ways to get discovered
S2: and the fact that TikTok is a platform that basically
S2: is exists and will only, you know, spotlight artists if
S2: their music goes viral. But like basically, I guess if
S2: I was an Australian musician, like wanting to break out,
S2: I'd be like, well, look, all of these 16 to
S2: 30 year olds really are like existing on TikTok or
S2: listening to stuff or discovering stuff on TikTok, like, how
S2: do I infiltrate this platform that is kind of like
S2: engineered to be geared against me anyway, but like what?
S2: What happens there like that? That is a big problem
S2: for Australian artists.
S3: Well, I think it's a problem if they feel like
S3: they have to infiltrate that, because TikTok obviously likes a
S3: very certain kind of music. I mean, Gracie Abrams is
S3: maybe the epitome of that likes a very certain kind
S3: of song. Um, and that's dominating. So I don't think
S3: you want to get the Australian artists to create the
S3: song that TikTok is loving, because then you will just
S3: have the same song created over and over again. I
S3: actually think the bigger issue really is like, artists don't
S3: make a lot of money out of record sales or streams,
S3: like they make their money out of touring. And that,
S3: I think, is the real crux of the issue in
S3: Australia is that they don't have anywhere to play anymore.
S1: Totally, totally and harder for them to tour internationally with,
S1: you know, exchange rates, cost of living, visa fees increasing
S1: for artists in the States. It's a story that Meg,
S1: our colleague, covered a couple of weeks ago, just on
S1: the streaming side of things. I mean, there this is
S1: where there have been conversations for the government to step
S1: in and actually and it's a boring word to use,
S1: but like regulate, like if they're going to talk about
S1: making sure that Netflix prioritizes Australian content, why can't there
S1: be discussion around, you know, when Spotify makes its playlist?
S1: So when Spotify plays radio, you know, it's like, you
S1: like this artist, listen to that artist. Every third song
S1: has to be an Australian song. Like, why not just
S1: say you operate in our country, you make money from Australians,
S1: and part of the quid pro quo of that is
S1: you have to ensure that Australian acts can't just be
S1: drowned out by Sabrina Carpenter again and again, or Gracie
S1: Abrams on TikTok. Like, I think that is something that
S1: could be done. I hope Music Australia is doing it.
S1: I mean, they're smart people probably think about this stuff
S1: more than us. I'm kind of surprised that no one
S1: in the government just stood up and said, hey, yeah,
S1: there's a real issue here with music in Australia. Every
S1: artist is talking about it. Every label is talking about it,
S1: the media is talking about it. We're going to look
S1: at what we can do. It sort of just seems like, oh, well,
S1: maybe get to it once we figure out what to
S1: do with Netflix, which has been going on for years
S1: and years. So I feel a little bit pessimistic. But
S1: hopefully this conversation encourages people to think about it. Maybe
S1: there are some influential people listening to this and starting
S1: those convos. If music companies in Australia, if artists started
S1: demanding the government do something to enforce Australian music, be
S1: played on things like TikTok and Spotify, I think that
S1: could go a long way. Along with the touring stuff
S1: that you mentioned, Mel.
S3: I'm kind of skeptical that we'll see the government try
S3: to enforce quotas on TikTok. Um, I agree, I'm just
S3: chucking out some.
S7: Ideas like be positive.
S3: We've seen how they've gone with meta. Um, I actually
S3: think the more maybe effective model to steal from is
S3: what they've done with the film industry, which are like
S3: kind of tax offsets and rebates. I wonder if that's
S3: more of a way to incentivize these companies to, to
S3: promote Australian musicians, because I.
S7: Just don't.
S3: Want to sound like the AFR, but I don't know
S3: if the regulation of the big companies is going to
S3: work like Sony. I love Sony, but like, they're not,
S3: you know, they they have to make a profit like
S3: they're not.
S7: Your lunch coming up.
S3: I don't have faith in their kind of their altruism.
S1: I feel like regardless of which path anyone takes, we
S1: have just come up with like seven great ideas to help,
S1: and I hope someone listening to this takes them on.
S1: I said that I wanted to mention a couple of
S1: recent Australian songs, because I don't want to just talk
S1: about the issues here and then my My Impress Your
S1: Friends is not an Australian artist, so I thought I
S1: should mention Australian acts before people make fun of me.
S1: I mentioned Nick Ward before up and coming pop guy
S1: on the Troy Tour. His most recent single, Shooting Star
S1: is really, really fun. If you want a pop kind
S1: of a vibe. Amyl and the sniffers, they don't need
S1: my help. They're a big and successful band. I've always
S1: loved them. Their most recent single, You Should Not Be
S1: Doing That is really good. Like, I think this is
S1: one of the best Australian songs in the last little while.
S1: It's really, really fun and it's so exciting to see
S1: them kill it overseas. And the final one northeast Party House,
S1: more electro sort of vibe. Their latest album is awesome,
S1: but the lead single off it, enhancer, is also really fun.
S1: So there's a bit of a rock, pop and dance recommendations.
S1: So there you go. I'm doing my bit to support
S1: Australian music. Let's move on to our final and most
S1: beloved segment, Impress Your Friends, where we share something that
S1: we watched, listened to, read, or consumed last week in culture. Uh, Mel?
S1: I'm up.
S3: Well, learning new Australian writers. My recommendation this week is, um, kin.
S3: Mine's new memoir, Fragile Creatures. It's a really the word
S3: that comes to mind is graceful, like it's a very
S3: graceful book. It's about his experience growing up in Perth.
S3: His mum was a migrant from England, his dad was
S3: a Burmese refugee. And it starts, it looks at the
S3: racism he endured in Perth growing up from that background,
S3: and it's really quite horrific and at times hard to watch.
S3: But then it moves into this experience he has going overseas,
S3: and his former partner accuses him of stalking her. So
S3: he has to face a court case overseas. And while
S3: that's going on, his sister has been facing this illness,
S3: which leaves her in bed for months and months and months,
S3: and she's getting worse. And it's an illness that, you know,
S3: the diagnosis is contentious, so there's all these different elements
S3: of it. But he brings it together so nicely and
S3: it's really honest and insightful, and it's a look at
S3: masculinity and racism and also the idea about how the
S3: body and mind works together. It's just a very, uh,
S3: it's a great read. I would recommend it. And I'm
S3: it's a quiet book. It's from a smaller publisher, Black Inc.. Uh,
S3: Ken is a writer, but I don't think has is,
S3: you know, particularly well known. So I hope it does
S3: kind of make a mark because it does deserve to
S3: be read.
S1: Good on you supporting Australian artists, Mel.
S7: Great try.
S1: Great stuff. Um.
S2: Thomas Vine is a TV show on a little known streamer,
S2: Aussie streamer named Apple. This. This is very good, though. Um,
S2: you know, we've been in a bit of a funny
S2: time for, for new TV shows, and obviously the bear
S2: is pointing us all, but This is Sunny, starring Rashida Jones,
S2: who I think we all know and love. Um, I
S2: think she's great. Uh, and so basically, this is adapted
S2: from Colin O'Sullivan's novel. Uh, but basically she plays an
S2: American woman living in Japan with her Japanese husband. And
S2: one day, her husband and son disappear in a plane crash. Uh,
S2: it all feels very mysterious. A bit losti almost. Um,
S2: but as far as we know, her husband has passed away. Uh, she,
S2: you know, in this kind of strange, you know, post death.
S7: Grief.
S2: That has gripped her, she then, like, gets a knock
S2: at the door one day and she meets Sonny, a
S2: robot that her husband, who was far as she knew,
S2: worked for a refrigeration company has created and tailored to
S2: her exact sensibilities. He has a full history of her life,
S2: and he basically is the ultimate companion. And at first,
S2: she doesn't really know what to make of it. And
S2: then as the show kind of goes along, it becomes,
S2: you know, this comfort, but it also becomes this increasingly
S2: kind of like dark force in her life. And the
S2: show is really funny. Rashida Jones is so good at
S2: toeing the line between like, drama and then like comedy,
S2: and also just there's this constant sense of foreboding. The
S2: show does become like a kind of comment on, you know,
S2: where the future is headed. And I and all of
S2: those things we love to delve into. But yeah, if
S2: you're if you're looking for a kind of an off
S2: beat show that is a bit different to everything else
S2: out there right now, um, Sunny on Apple is definitely
S2: worth a watch.
S7: Uh, Apple.
S1: TV hitting it out of the park lately.
S7: I think I'd love a robot friend.
S2: Yeah, you probably would.
S7: Yeah.
S1: Avoid the obvious Thomas joke.
S3: Yeah. Set you up.
S7: There.
S1: Uh, my my recommendation is my guy, Zack Bryant. Back.
S1: Surprise album out of nowhere. The great American bar scene.
S1: I will say I really liked this album. So, Zack Bryant,
S1: for people who are not familiar with my adoration of
S1: country artist in America, really, really good. Had that really
S1: big hit. I remember everything with Kacey Musgraves, I think,
S1: towards the end of last year, but has released a
S1: couple of awesome albums. His self-titled is probably my favorite. Uh,
S1: I will say about this album, it's not like a
S1: radical reinvention of Zach. It's very much the same stuff
S1: that we've had from him in a while, but it's
S1: pretty good. There's a Bruce Springsteen collaboration on there, which
S1: is really, really nice. Um, my two favorite tracks, if
S1: you're a bit daunted by the size and the length
S1: of the album, and you want to just sort of
S1: what are the good bits? Uh, 28 and Oak Island.
S1: Two real standout fun, kind of more poppy, accessible bits,
S1: but just really nice to have another full length Zach
S1: Bryant album. Yes, it's my recommendation.
S2: I just wanted to offer some feedback on your recommendation.
S1: Feel free.
S2: Firstly, it fucking features John Mayer and you didn't.
S7: Sorry, you didn't even mention it.
S1: Which is I'm trying to pretend that one doesn't exist.
S2: I actually quite like that song. The album is great.
S2: I listened to it on the way to work this morning.
S2: I've been so into it when when he just, like,
S2: comes out with Wet Hot American.
S7: Best kind of.
S2: Best lyrics since I was.
S7: I've never more.
S1: Wanted to just be a guy who drives a truck.
S1: And the main thing I'm worried about is like, what
S1: I'm bringing to the cookout on Friday night. And that
S1: is the nostalgia that he is like conjuring up. And
S1: I'm like, man, yeah, the world used to be a
S1: more simple place. You don't have to worry about politics
S1: or the state of the world, just your family. You know,
S1: your job, your gun, your truck. I mean, I'm.
S7: Making it sound like a conservative album. It's not.
S3: You're fetishizing kind of working class culture here.
S1: I, I.
S7: I.
S1: Mean, that's country music, right? Like, that's that's the vibes.
S1: It's simple and straightforward and yeah, he's you know, he's
S1: an interesting songwriter as well. I don't mean to write
S1: him off as just like a country hick or whatever, but, um,
S1: there's something about the detachment from a lot of the
S1: chaos and drama in the world that we kind of
S1: cover and talk about all the time that I find
S1: really appealing about the album. So it's good. It's a
S1: great listen.
S3: I'm glad it came out in time for your birthday, too.
S1: Thanks, Mel. Thank you. Um, that's it from us guys.
S1: Great conversations. Always take care. See you next week.
S7: Perfect. We've got to go.
S3: Out with Riptide shortly.
S7: I was scared of dentists, and.
S10: I was scared of dentists and the dark. I was
S10: scared of pretty girls and starting conversations.
UU: All my friends are turning green.
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong.
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,
S1: make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app.
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with
S1: a friend! I'm Usman Farooqui. See you next week!