1 00:00:07,550 --> 00:00:10,970 S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is the drop a 2 00:00:10,970 --> 00:00:13,550 S1: culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, 3 00:00:13,550 --> 00:00:15,590 S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of 4 00:00:15,590 --> 00:00:19,070 S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Mel Kembery and 5 00:00:19,070 --> 00:00:21,500 S1: Thomas Mitchell. What's up team? Good morning. 6 00:00:21,500 --> 00:00:24,890 S2: Everybody. I am feeling very good today. I think Osman, 7 00:00:24,890 --> 00:00:27,530 S2: you're looking particularly fine. I must say I don't want 8 00:00:27,530 --> 00:00:29,290 S2: to do too much of a loving. But you're looking 9 00:00:29,290 --> 00:00:32,110 S2: very like he's looking well rested. Trim. This is a 10 00:00:32,110 --> 00:00:32,920 S2: good angle for you. 11 00:00:32,950 --> 00:00:35,500 S3: What an original way for us to start the podcast again. 12 00:00:35,500 --> 00:00:38,950 S3: By you guys complimenting each other on your physicality. 13 00:00:39,220 --> 00:00:43,150 S1: Well, I, I'm not feeling particularly well rested, so I'm 14 00:00:43,150 --> 00:00:47,200 S1: glad I'm looking good. Thomas. Thank you so much. Mel. 15 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,440 S1: You look lovely. Delightful as always. Sparkling. 16 00:00:50,500 --> 00:00:52,300 S3: Thank you. You both look lovely. 17 00:00:52,890 --> 00:00:55,470 S2: We've covered that up. Osman. How? I was curious to know. 18 00:00:55,470 --> 00:00:58,260 S2: How is it going with the parents in town? I 19 00:00:58,260 --> 00:00:59,400 S2: know they're visiting. 20 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,370 S1: My parents did visit. It was my birthday last week. 21 00:01:02,370 --> 00:01:04,890 S1: End of last week. I got some very nice birthday 22 00:01:04,890 --> 00:01:06,750 S1: messages from a bunch of people. I got some very 23 00:01:06,750 --> 00:01:09,720 S1: mean ones from you guys. People who listened to the 24 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,160 S1: podcast last week will recall that Thomas made a jibe 25 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,500 S1: at me being a marvel guy. He sent me a 26 00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:20,860 S1: very extended birthday message comparing me to Tony Stark and Spider-Man, 27 00:01:20,860 --> 00:01:24,190 S1: which I did not appreciate at all. Um, yeah. My 28 00:01:24,190 --> 00:01:25,240 S1: parents are in town for a couple of days. It 29 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,580 S1: was nice to see them. Did you get a cake? 30 00:01:28,390 --> 00:01:29,890 S1: I did not get a cake. I got a very 31 00:01:29,890 --> 00:01:32,530 S1: nice sweater from my mum for my birthday, which I 32 00:01:32,530 --> 00:01:35,199 S1: feel like is a very mum gift to get, but 33 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:36,730 S1: also it was her birthday. Her birthday is just a 34 00:01:36,730 --> 00:01:39,910 S1: few days after mine. So, um. Yeah, that was nice 35 00:01:39,910 --> 00:01:42,750 S1: to celebrate with them. They're on holiday in Tasmania right now. 36 00:01:42,750 --> 00:01:45,509 S1: She told me she, uh, listened to. Well, she listened 37 00:01:45,510 --> 00:01:48,540 S1: to the pod all the time. And she's real deep 38 00:01:48,540 --> 00:01:52,050 S1: in Presumed Innocent right now. She's loving it. She remembers 39 00:01:52,050 --> 00:01:54,540 S1: the movie from the 90s, but is loving the TV show. 40 00:01:54,540 --> 00:01:56,550 S2: Yeah, I feel like people are really getting into Presumed 41 00:01:56,550 --> 00:01:59,610 S2: Innocent and like, I'm very much here for it, so 42 00:01:59,610 --> 00:02:01,830 S2: I'm just dying for the finale at this point. 43 00:02:01,830 --> 00:02:04,650 S3: Well, we'll have to get Mama Farooqi on the yeah, 44 00:02:04,650 --> 00:02:05,840 S3: on the line for it. 45 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,200 S1: Um, there's quite a bit we're going to talk about 46 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,739 S1: on the show today, but there's some exciting trailer related 47 00:02:12,740 --> 00:02:16,010 S1: news to, I think, maybe kick things off with. We 48 00:02:16,010 --> 00:02:20,060 S1: talked about the Gladiator two pictures that were revealed last week. 49 00:02:20,060 --> 00:02:22,790 S1: We got the trailer on Wednesday morning. 50 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,830 S4: Whose head could I give you that would satisfy this fury? 51 00:02:29,860 --> 00:02:35,320 S5: The entire Roman army's too much. The general will do 52 00:02:35,710 --> 00:02:36,399 S5: little things. 53 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,030 S4: And my throne must fall to my tool kit. I 54 00:02:40,030 --> 00:02:41,440 S4: need only give it a push. 55 00:02:42,130 --> 00:02:44,740 S6: Will you make it out alive? 56 00:02:45,430 --> 00:02:50,380 UU: All right, all right. Tears on the mausoleum floor. Blood 57 00:02:50,380 --> 00:02:52,000 UU: stains the Coliseum doors. 58 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,720 S1: They really went all out for this trailer. That was 59 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,330 S1: that was a lot of Denzel. There was a lot 60 00:02:57,330 --> 00:03:01,530 S1: of Paul Mescal. There was the Coliseum being flooded with water. 61 00:03:01,530 --> 00:03:04,050 S1: There was no church in the wild. 62 00:03:04,050 --> 00:03:07,560 S3: Sorry, you've forgotten the gladiator riding the rhino. That was 63 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,150 S3: a real highlight for me. That was a. 64 00:03:09,150 --> 00:03:12,030 S1: Flashback to Russell in the first Gladiator, and maybe some 65 00:03:12,030 --> 00:03:15,540 S1: suggestions that Paul's character is his long lost son. Maybe. 66 00:03:15,540 --> 00:03:17,070 S1: Did you guys think that? 67 00:03:17,070 --> 00:03:20,530 S2: I was actually surprised at how much like Russell or 68 00:03:20,530 --> 00:03:23,440 S2: just like Russell Energy was in the trailer, like they're 69 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,600 S2: really leaning on, I guess, the legacy of the first 70 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,880 S2: Gladiator film, which we kind of talked about being a 71 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,790 S2: bit of an issue. Um, I just thought, like, look, 72 00:03:30,790 --> 00:03:33,490 S2: to be honest, the trailer isn't amazing, but it appealed 73 00:03:33,490 --> 00:03:35,680 S2: to my specific set of tastes. Like I got hyped 74 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,780 S2: for the film after watching it. I did think it 75 00:03:37,780 --> 00:03:40,180 S2: was very funny. My absolute favorite take from seeing this 76 00:03:40,180 --> 00:03:42,570 S2: so far is a tweet that said Respect to Denzel 77 00:03:42,570 --> 00:03:45,330 S2: Washington for doing no accent work and acting and sounding 78 00:03:45,330 --> 00:03:46,980 S2: like a corrupt cop from Yonkers. 79 00:03:48,150 --> 00:03:48,360 S7: Because. 80 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,300 S2: He just they even do the Denzel laugh in the trailer. 81 00:03:51,300 --> 00:03:52,830 S2: Like it's just it's crazy. 82 00:03:52,830 --> 00:03:55,050 S3: Oh, I thought I struggled to get through this. I 83 00:03:55,050 --> 00:03:56,820 S3: can't imagine how I'm going to find the whole thing. 84 00:03:56,820 --> 00:03:57,870 S3: I mean, it looked incredible. 85 00:03:57,870 --> 00:03:58,710 S1: You didn't like the trailer. 86 00:03:58,740 --> 00:04:00,660 S3: It was just it was just so much. And I 87 00:04:00,660 --> 00:04:02,670 S3: kept thinking of, you know, there's that like Coco Chanel 88 00:04:02,670 --> 00:04:04,950 S3: quote that's like, always take one thing off before you 89 00:04:04,950 --> 00:04:07,190 S3: leave the house. I feel like Ridley Scott needs to 90 00:04:07,190 --> 00:04:09,980 S3: learn that with special effects. It was I mean, it 91 00:04:09,980 --> 00:04:12,530 S3: looked incredible, but all the water shots, boats, there were 92 00:04:12,530 --> 00:04:14,480 S3: a lot of arrows there, a lot of swords in 93 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,179 S3: the air. I just it feels like it's going to 94 00:04:17,180 --> 00:04:19,849 S3: be a lot of a lot of fighting. And I do. 95 00:04:19,850 --> 00:04:22,250 S2: Think like, you know, choosing no church in the wild, 96 00:04:22,250 --> 00:04:24,560 S2: it's such a big choice. And already people are a 97 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,130 S2: bit like, oh, is this like cheapening the legacy of Gladiator? 98 00:04:28,130 --> 00:04:29,690 S2: I thought the song worked, and I mean, I love 99 00:04:29,690 --> 00:04:30,520 S2: that song. 100 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,160 S1: I was talking to one of our colleagues, Angus, yesterday, 101 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:37,750 S1: funnily enough, about the use of like, big Kanye produced 102 00:04:37,750 --> 00:04:40,990 S1: tracks in trailers, and there's a few really great examples, 103 00:04:40,990 --> 00:04:45,130 S1: like power I think was used in The Social Network. Uh, 104 00:04:45,130 --> 00:04:48,610 S1: Black Skinhead was used in something around that same time 105 00:04:48,610 --> 00:04:52,150 S1: as well. There's something about like that maximalist sound that 106 00:04:52,150 --> 00:04:54,840 S1: gets you really excited. Also, just the repetition of the 107 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,870 S1: line about like the Colosseum again and again while we're 108 00:04:57,870 --> 00:04:59,700 S1: looking at shots of the Colosseum. It's a little bit obvious, 109 00:04:59,700 --> 00:05:00,659 S1: but but still pretty fun. 110 00:05:00,660 --> 00:05:02,729 S2: It is funny, though, because I saw like this, you know, 111 00:05:02,730 --> 00:05:05,070 S2: have you seen that Kanye has like texted someone saying 112 00:05:05,070 --> 00:05:06,900 S2: he's retiring from music? Like, do you reckon he saw 113 00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:09,240 S2: the trailer and was like, fuck, this is it for me? 114 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:09,870 S7: I'm out. 115 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:12,779 S1: Um, it was Wolf of Wall Street was Black Skinhead, 116 00:05:12,810 --> 00:05:13,049 S1: I think. 117 00:05:13,050 --> 00:05:15,360 S3: I was surprised to see the Russell throwback in the trailer. 118 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:16,770 S3: And then I was wondering, are they going to do 119 00:05:16,770 --> 00:05:18,460 S3: the are you not entertained line? 120 00:05:18,490 --> 00:05:22,299 UU: Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? 121 00:05:23,650 --> 00:05:27,849 S1: So I was generally excited about this trailer and like 122 00:05:27,850 --> 00:05:31,239 S1: I really in this era. Yeah, it's hit and miss. Uh, 123 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,270 S1: The Last Jewel. Really, really good. But we talked about 124 00:05:34,270 --> 00:05:36,760 S1: this Napoleon. Not as good. I don't have super high 125 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,710 S1: hopes for this, but I thought the trailer looked fun. 126 00:05:38,710 --> 00:05:42,420 S1: But yeah, two bits that worried me. One. what you 127 00:05:42,420 --> 00:05:45,810 S1: just said. Mel Russell's not in this film, and he's 128 00:05:45,810 --> 00:05:48,780 S1: very upset about not being in this film, so using 129 00:05:48,779 --> 00:05:51,150 S1: him and his story so heavily feels like a bit 130 00:05:51,150 --> 00:05:55,440 S1: unfair to to rusty. The other thing I'm doubling down 131 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,340 S1: on the Paul Mescal, uh, situation here. I'm not saying 132 00:05:59,339 --> 00:06:01,529 S1: that he's not a good actor, but, you know, we 133 00:06:01,529 --> 00:06:06,500 S1: talk about women actresses who have, like, you know, that 134 00:06:06,500 --> 00:06:10,430 S1: kind of meme of a period film with a woman actress. 135 00:06:10,430 --> 00:06:12,650 S1: And the line is like, I can't believe her because 136 00:06:12,650 --> 00:06:15,260 S1: she's like, seen Instagram to talk about this with like Elle, 137 00:06:15,260 --> 00:06:18,050 S1: Elle Fanning and stuff. They're like, this just doesn't make sense. 138 00:06:18,050 --> 00:06:20,540 S1: She's got like a face and a look for a 139 00:06:20,540 --> 00:06:23,300 S1: modern environment. I feel like Paul Mescal has that too. Like, 140 00:06:23,300 --> 00:06:26,510 S1: this is a guy who has just left Laneway Festival 141 00:06:26,510 --> 00:06:29,539 S1: and walked into the set of Gladiator two. It doesn't 142 00:06:29,540 --> 00:06:30,489 S1: really work for me. 143 00:06:30,490 --> 00:06:32,859 S2: Yes, I completely agree. Like he just we kind of 144 00:06:32,860 --> 00:06:35,680 S2: spoke about this on text, like Russell at least looked 145 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,890 S2: like rough. And, you know, I could believe that he was, 146 00:06:38,890 --> 00:06:42,010 S2: you know, a slave that came good. Whereas Paul Mescal 147 00:06:42,010 --> 00:06:44,859 S2: just doesn't have like, he seriously, he basically made us 148 00:06:44,860 --> 00:06:47,229 S2: be wearing the fucking short shorts. Like, it just doesn't. 149 00:06:47,260 --> 00:06:50,590 S1: Fully, fully. He somehow managed to parlay the short, short 150 00:06:50,620 --> 00:06:52,239 S1: thing into a movie where he can show off his 151 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,620 S1: legs and his manicured beard, which doesn't feel era appropriate, 152 00:06:56,620 --> 00:06:57,880 S1: I'm sorry to say. Yeah, I. 153 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,469 S3: Feel like this is one of those cases where, like, 154 00:06:59,470 --> 00:07:02,110 S3: the kind of paratext around him is going to influence 155 00:07:02,110 --> 00:07:04,870 S3: how we view the film. And maybe it wasn't the 156 00:07:04,870 --> 00:07:07,900 S3: wisest casting choice, but then who would have you like? 157 00:07:07,900 --> 00:07:09,790 S3: Who would you prefer to see as a gladiator apart 158 00:07:09,790 --> 00:07:10,630 S3: from each other? 159 00:07:11,290 --> 00:07:13,030 S2: I mean, Osman would be a great casting. Probably. 160 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:14,380 S7: Probably more appropriate. 161 00:07:14,380 --> 00:07:16,060 S2: To be honest. I know someone that's like a bit 162 00:07:16,060 --> 00:07:18,700 S2: like ugly. Beautiful. Like Jesse Plemons would be good. Like, 163 00:07:18,700 --> 00:07:20,890 S2: stick that motherfucker in Gladiator. Yes. 164 00:07:21,130 --> 00:07:22,900 S3: Okay, I like yeah, I can see that. 165 00:07:22,900 --> 00:07:25,930 S1: That's a great, great call. The other trailer that dropped 166 00:07:25,930 --> 00:07:27,520 S1: this week that I got excited about. I don't think 167 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,730 S1: I've talked to you guys about it yet. F1 starring 168 00:07:30,730 --> 00:07:32,260 S1: Brad Pitt, Red. 169 00:07:32,260 --> 00:07:36,430 S8: Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, Aston, now McLaren all have a speed 170 00:07:36,430 --> 00:07:39,970 S8: on the straights. Our shot is battling in the turns. 171 00:07:39,970 --> 00:07:42,340 S8: We need to build our car for combat. 172 00:07:42,810 --> 00:07:45,060 S9: How am I supposed to make that safe? 173 00:07:45,090 --> 00:07:46,350 S8: Who said anything about safe? 174 00:07:58,230 --> 00:08:01,410 S1: Directed by Joseph Kosinski, who did Top Gun Maverick, which 175 00:08:01,410 --> 00:08:04,710 S1: was an awesome, awesome, awesome film. The trailer didn't like 176 00:08:04,710 --> 00:08:07,340 S1: reveal a lot. There was like, a lot of Queen 177 00:08:07,340 --> 00:08:11,660 S1: and just cars racing around. Apparently they filmed a lot 178 00:08:11,660 --> 00:08:14,930 S1: of this film at actual Grand Prix like around the World. 179 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,270 S1: I'm not a huge F1 head, but I've been to 180 00:08:17,270 --> 00:08:19,700 S1: the Grand Prix, I enjoy it. I really like Brad Pitt, 181 00:08:19,700 --> 00:08:23,030 S1: I like sports films. This looks pretty fun. How you 182 00:08:23,030 --> 00:08:24,560 S1: guys finding the vibes on this one? 183 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,070 S3: I was shocked about how little this trailer revealed about 184 00:08:28,070 --> 00:08:30,200 S3: the film. I think Brad has like one line in 185 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,439 S3: it and then the rest of it is just car shots. 186 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,410 S3: I kept waiting for like, the plot to be shown. Um, 187 00:08:35,410 --> 00:08:37,959 S3: I'm excited about this. I like F1 films, I like 188 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,059 S3: the F1, love the grid walk he was on. Actually, 189 00:08:40,059 --> 00:08:41,890 S3: I saw them chasing Brad Pitt on the grid walk 190 00:08:41,890 --> 00:08:45,130 S3: just over the weekend. I'm um. I'm excited about this film. 191 00:08:45,130 --> 00:08:46,030 S3: I think it will be good. 192 00:08:46,030 --> 00:08:47,350 S2: Yeah, I think so too. I from what I could 193 00:08:47,350 --> 00:08:50,020 S2: piece together, like from the trailer, it seems like. So 194 00:08:50,170 --> 00:08:52,720 S2: Javier Bardem obviously plays like a team principal, which I think. 195 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:52,900 S3: Is. 196 00:08:53,350 --> 00:08:56,760 S2: Really good, really good casting. Like he looks like that, 197 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,590 S2: but and then what? So it seems like Brad is 198 00:08:58,590 --> 00:09:00,960 S2: maybe the older driver, and there's that young dude that 199 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,300 S2: we see in the teaser trailer who's like, looks like, 200 00:09:03,300 --> 00:09:05,520 S2: you know, kind of the Lewis Hamilton superstar, I'm guessing. 201 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,100 S1: And the films produced or ep'd by Lewis Hamilton. So 202 00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:10,199 S1: I think he's putting a bit of himself in there. Yeah. 203 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:11,820 S2: Right. So I mean, like, I don't know, I think 204 00:09:11,820 --> 00:09:13,679 S2: Brad Pitt is such a funny one right now. He's 205 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:15,030 S2: at a stage of his career where he's just kind 206 00:09:15,030 --> 00:09:18,179 S2: of like doing whatever he probably wants to spend time doing, 207 00:09:18,179 --> 00:09:20,270 S2: and this very much seems like that. But yeah, I mean, 208 00:09:20,270 --> 00:09:23,000 S2: I am a big Brad guy, too, in news that 209 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,880 S2: will shock nobody. So I will definitely go and see this. Yeah, 210 00:09:25,910 --> 00:09:26,119 S2: a lot of. 211 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,550 S1: People saying he's too old to play an F1 driver 212 00:09:28,550 --> 00:09:30,650 S1: and I like I mean firstly it's a movie like 213 00:09:30,650 --> 00:09:33,439 S1: relax everyone, take a deep breath. Tom Cruise is too 214 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,199 S1: old to be a Top Gun pilot. That's also the case. 215 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,359 S1: But I think his character is supposed to be like 216 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,000 S1: a retired driver who comes out of retirement to help 217 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,510 S1: train a new. But that's a cool story. That's like 218 00:09:43,510 --> 00:09:46,510 S1: a framework that I'm into, like a creed, sort of, 219 00:09:46,540 --> 00:09:47,620 S1: you know, thing going on. 220 00:09:47,620 --> 00:09:50,080 S2: Imagine the insurance overheads on getting Brad Pitt to be 221 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,180 S2: allowed to drive an F1 car. But I mean, if 222 00:09:52,179 --> 00:09:54,340 S2: Nicole Kidman has taught us anything, we'll talk about her shortly. 223 00:09:54,340 --> 00:09:56,679 S2: You're never too old to play something that doesn't. 224 00:09:57,070 --> 00:09:59,170 S3: You never too old to make your dreams come true. 225 00:09:59,200 --> 00:09:59,680 S7: Correct. 226 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,599 S1: Well, I mean, let's get to that one today. Today 227 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,490 S1: on the show, we're going to talk about something I've 228 00:10:03,490 --> 00:10:06,219 S1: wanted to discuss for a while, and that is kind 229 00:10:06,220 --> 00:10:08,449 S1: of what the hell is going on with Australian music 230 00:10:08,450 --> 00:10:12,109 S1: right now. The Aria charts show that Australian artists are 231 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,160 S1: regularly struggling to break into the top 50. The biggest 232 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,490 S1: Australian acts that are breaking in are acts from like 40, 233 00:10:19,490 --> 00:10:23,689 S1: 50 years ago, like AC, DC and crowded House. Generally speaking, 234 00:10:23,690 --> 00:10:26,990 S1: it's very, very hard for local, younger, up and coming, 235 00:10:26,990 --> 00:10:31,059 S1: even successful acts to get recognition, to get airplay, to 236 00:10:31,059 --> 00:10:34,120 S1: get featured on streaming platforms, to sell tickets to shows. 237 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:35,410 S1: We're going to take a look at what's going on 238 00:10:35,410 --> 00:10:38,500 S1: and what could be done to shift things a little bit. 239 00:10:38,530 --> 00:10:40,480 S1: We're also going to take a look at the second 240 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,480 S1: half of the Bear season three, whether our views on 241 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,720 S1: this season have shifted as we make our way through 242 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,719 S1: the show. But first up, you alluded to this Thomas 243 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,050 S1: Nicole Kidman, something we got to talk about earlier this year. 244 00:10:53,050 --> 00:10:56,250 S1: Amazon gave us the idea of you, the age gap 245 00:10:56,250 --> 00:11:00,660 S1: romantic comedy starring Anne Hathaway and Nicholas Galitzine. I thought 246 00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:02,850 S1: it was fine. A lot of people didn't like it. 247 00:11:02,850 --> 00:11:05,910 S1: But yeah, just, you know, it's a it's a light, cheap, 248 00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:10,770 S1: fun comedy from from Amazon. And a couple of weeks ago, 249 00:11:10,770 --> 00:11:13,980 S1: Netflix gave us their version of what is literally the 250 00:11:13,980 --> 00:11:17,610 S1: same story. Essentially, it's a family Affair stars Nicole Kidman 251 00:11:17,610 --> 00:11:21,500 S1: and Zac Efron. It's another age gap romantic comedy, where 252 00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:24,380 S1: Nicole Kidman plays an older woman who has a meet 253 00:11:24,380 --> 00:11:28,160 S1: cute with a famous younger man. They start dating. Drama ensues. 254 00:11:28,190 --> 00:11:30,710 S1: The film went to number one pretty much straight away 255 00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:34,069 S1: on Netflix. This is a very cursed film. I have 256 00:11:34,070 --> 00:11:37,040 S1: to say. I felt quite grim about the state of 257 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,969 S1: the world and of cinema watching this movie. Let's talk 258 00:11:40,970 --> 00:11:43,800 S1: about it. Well, what were your guys top line reactions 259 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,180 S1: to A family affair? 260 00:11:45,210 --> 00:11:47,579 S3: I thought a family affair made the idea of you 261 00:11:47,580 --> 00:11:50,760 S3: look like a nuanced and poignant movie. Yes. 262 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:51,900 S1: Thank you, thank you. 263 00:11:51,929 --> 00:11:54,000 S3: Which I didn't think at the time. But now, in comparison, 264 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,960 S3: the idea of you wasn't so bad. I agree with you. Also, 265 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,439 S3: I think I'm very confused because there's lots of think 266 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,829 S3: pieces going around that are like, these are really great for, 267 00:12:04,830 --> 00:12:08,990 S3: you know, showing that older women have lives and can 268 00:12:08,990 --> 00:12:12,770 S3: have sexual desire and rediscover themselves. Like, I think we've 269 00:12:12,770 --> 00:12:15,380 S3: all been seduced by this because I don't actually know 270 00:12:15,380 --> 00:12:18,650 S3: if that's what's really going on here. I mean, the 271 00:12:18,650 --> 00:12:21,380 S3: women in this in both of the shows, a they're 272 00:12:21,380 --> 00:12:24,859 S3: a certain type of woman. Like they essentially function as 273 00:12:24,860 --> 00:12:27,860 S3: like authenticators for the man, like they're the ones who 274 00:12:27,890 --> 00:12:31,100 S3: can show who they really are to themselves, but then 275 00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:33,459 S3: they're also the same type of woman that's allowed to 276 00:12:33,460 --> 00:12:37,059 S3: experience this kind of love affair. They're like both artists 277 00:12:37,059 --> 00:12:40,630 S3: or in the art space. Anne Hathaway was a curator, and, um, 278 00:12:40,990 --> 00:12:45,160 S3: Nicole Kidman is a Pulitzer Prize winning writer. Um, so 279 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,340 S3: I guess that's suggesting that they're in open minded communities, 280 00:12:48,340 --> 00:12:51,520 S3: and then they're both kind of recovering from either a 281 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,120 S3: husband that's passed away or a traumatic relationship. So they're, 282 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:56,670 S3: you know, it's not like this is what they do 283 00:12:56,670 --> 00:12:59,370 S3: all the time. This is an exceptional moment. And then 284 00:12:59,370 --> 00:13:01,980 S3: they're both have to have daughters who can be like, yeah, 285 00:13:01,980 --> 00:13:05,309 S3: but they're still maternal, right? Like they're still anchored in 286 00:13:05,309 --> 00:13:08,429 S3: their in their motherhood. Um, I don't know. Yeah. I 287 00:13:08,429 --> 00:13:11,130 S3: just think these things are really problematic. And the whole 288 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,500 S3: basis of them is that we're meant to experience shock 289 00:13:13,500 --> 00:13:17,280 S3: at this relationship, which in itself is kind of problematic. Anyway. 290 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:18,929 S3: I think they've dressed it up all glossy, and they're 291 00:13:18,929 --> 00:13:22,490 S3: telling us that this is empowering and good stuff, but 292 00:13:22,490 --> 00:13:23,960 S3: I just don't think it is. 293 00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:26,810 S2: I mean, that's a super smart take. I was basically like, 294 00:13:26,809 --> 00:13:28,970 S2: Is Kathy Bates in Money Trouble? 295 00:13:30,350 --> 00:13:31,370 S7: Like, is she a gambler? 296 00:13:31,370 --> 00:13:33,710 S2: I could see her, like slapping the slot machine. What 297 00:13:33,710 --> 00:13:36,740 S2: is she doing in this movie? And even every scene 298 00:13:36,740 --> 00:13:39,020 S2: she has, I think she's like, what am I doing 299 00:13:39,020 --> 00:13:42,920 S2: in this movie? Uh, it was a very strange use of, like. 300 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,459 S2: I don't know if either of you guys have seen 301 00:13:44,460 --> 00:13:45,540 S2: the paper boy. 302 00:13:45,570 --> 00:13:49,050 S1: Oh, yeah. Great. That was another romantic drama between Nicole. 303 00:13:49,050 --> 00:13:51,150 S2: And so they had, like, a vibe in that. That 304 00:13:51,150 --> 00:13:54,060 S2: was a very different tone, that film. And, like, it's 305 00:13:54,059 --> 00:13:56,640 S2: just so strange to drop in, you know, like Kathy Bates, 306 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,490 S2: Nicole Kidman, Zac Efron, each in their own right, pretty 307 00:13:59,490 --> 00:14:02,340 S2: good at what they do and then just completely leave 308 00:14:02,340 --> 00:14:06,059 S2: them floundering. This movie, it felt like it almost was 309 00:14:06,059 --> 00:14:08,570 S2: close to me. It was like an Irish wish type 310 00:14:08,570 --> 00:14:11,059 S2: film the way it was. It was like so aggressively lit. 311 00:14:11,059 --> 00:14:14,030 S2: Everything felt fake. It, it may as well have been 312 00:14:14,030 --> 00:14:18,110 S2: like shot completely on like studio lots. It was just so, 313 00:14:18,110 --> 00:14:21,020 S2: so weird. The writing was appalling and like, what's so 314 00:14:21,020 --> 00:14:23,570 S2: strange is that later this year, Nicole is going to 315 00:14:23,570 --> 00:14:26,810 S2: do her first A24 film, Baby Girl, which is like 316 00:14:26,810 --> 00:14:29,030 S2: a very similar setup. She plays like a high powered 317 00:14:29,030 --> 00:14:32,080 S2: CEO who has an affair with a young intern. It's 318 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,000 S2: going to be like Harris Dickinson from The Iron Claw. 319 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,090 S2: And like, you know, that movie will be like, I mean, 320 00:14:37,090 --> 00:14:40,120 S2: presumably ten times better. It's just. Yeah, I mean, it 321 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,770 S2: is kind of I think in this day and age, 322 00:14:41,770 --> 00:14:43,570 S2: we have to see these films as a gift because 323 00:14:43,570 --> 00:14:46,630 S2: it's rare that you get such a bad, you know, token. 324 00:14:46,780 --> 00:14:48,850 S2: It's rare you get such a bad product that we've 325 00:14:48,850 --> 00:14:51,340 S2: spoken so much about the whole mid era. This was 326 00:14:51,340 --> 00:14:53,470 S2: truly a bad gift from Netflix. 327 00:14:53,470 --> 00:14:55,600 S3: My theory on the Nicole Kidman is that I think 328 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,380 S3: she has played a string of kind of quote unquote, 329 00:14:58,380 --> 00:15:03,330 S3: prestige TV characters where she's often, ah, uh, plays a, a, 330 00:15:03,330 --> 00:15:06,930 S3: a woman who's going through it, who's complicated and is 331 00:15:06,930 --> 00:15:11,190 S3: in complicated relationships. I'm thinking of expats, big little lies. Um, 332 00:15:11,190 --> 00:15:13,860 S3: there was that crime, one she was in as well. Um, 333 00:15:13,860 --> 00:15:16,290 S3: and now maybe she's trying to do a rebrand to 334 00:15:16,290 --> 00:15:20,060 S3: show that Nicole Kidman can do these softer, funnier roles. 335 00:15:20,060 --> 00:15:23,300 S1: In terms of the overall structural issues with this film 336 00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:25,220 S1: and these types of films. Mel, I couldn't agree with 337 00:15:25,220 --> 00:15:28,040 S1: you more. I think they're trying to, like, convince us 338 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,680 S1: that we should feel good and like, be stoked that 339 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,010 S1: they're showing us older women being sexually active when these 340 00:15:34,010 --> 00:15:37,040 S1: are kind of some of the most weirdly morally repressed 341 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,950 S1: films around. I mean, at least the idea of you 342 00:15:39,950 --> 00:15:42,950 S1: had like multiple attempts to show Anne Hathaway, like trying 343 00:15:42,950 --> 00:15:46,050 S1: to be sexy. This film has one sort of sex 344 00:15:46,050 --> 00:15:48,240 S1: scene that is interrupted by the daughter, and the rest 345 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,930 S1: of it is just her feeling guilty about the whole thing. 346 00:15:51,930 --> 00:15:54,150 S1: I don't think the politics of these movies is something 347 00:15:54,180 --> 00:15:57,900 S1: to get particularly excited about, but then the actual specific 348 00:15:57,900 --> 00:16:00,270 S1: mechanics of this, like the first scene where we meet 349 00:16:00,270 --> 00:16:05,040 S1: Nicole Kidman and Kathy Bates, it's written like the script 350 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,360 S1: was done by I. The performances are ridiculous. The setup 351 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,620 S1: is ridiculous. In that shot, there are something like two Oscars, 352 00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:16,820 S1: four Emmys, eight Golden Globes and a BAFTA. And I'm 353 00:16:16,820 --> 00:16:21,230 S1: just like, what have we done to deserve this? Right now? This. 354 00:16:21,230 --> 00:16:25,070 S1: And it's obviously a money play from everyone involved and 355 00:16:25,070 --> 00:16:28,310 S1: they're allowed to get that bag. But at what point 356 00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:34,570 S1: do we stand up and say actors and streamers? Making 357 00:16:34,570 --> 00:16:39,010 S1: stuff like this devalues the craft of cinema to such 358 00:16:39,010 --> 00:16:43,000 S1: an extent that audience expectations over time erode, and that 359 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,640 S1: they don't understand what a good film is anymore. We 360 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,010 S1: end up with just 100 of these things a year. 361 00:16:48,010 --> 00:16:50,020 S1: Like this is why I say it's cursed. I don't 362 00:16:50,020 --> 00:16:52,180 S1: think it's just a bad movie. I think in 20 363 00:16:52,180 --> 00:16:54,790 S1: years time, when people write about how Hollywood and the 364 00:16:54,790 --> 00:16:58,290 S1: world devolved into the grim state that it will inevitably 365 00:16:58,290 --> 00:17:01,170 S1: devolve into, they'll be like a family affair was was 366 00:17:01,170 --> 00:17:02,970 S1: a key moment in human history. 367 00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:06,240 S2: Let's also not forget all of Zach's Kids Teen Choice 368 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,190 S2: Awards that he brings to the table. 369 00:17:08,850 --> 00:17:11,250 S1: Well, okay. And so speaking of Zach, the other thing 370 00:17:11,250 --> 00:17:12,900 S1: about this movie and I want to be careful how 371 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:14,280 S1: I talk about this one. 372 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:15,510 S2: I can talk about this fucked up face. 373 00:17:16,170 --> 00:17:16,410 S7: Is. 374 00:17:17,550 --> 00:17:20,010 S1: Zac Efron. Looks he looks unusual. And, you know, he 375 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,700 S1: he did have an accident, and he had, like, reconstructive 376 00:17:22,700 --> 00:17:27,110 S1: jaw surgery. And his body and his face. It looks unusual, right. 377 00:17:27,109 --> 00:17:30,320 S1: And I would say he looks significantly older than his 378 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,320 S1: 36 years. And I would say Nicole Kidman looks quite 379 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,800 S1: remarkable for her 50 years. So this is an age 380 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,500 S1: gap comedy where we're supposed to be like, Nicole Kidman 381 00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:41,359 S1: is an older woman and Zac Efron is the younger 382 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,210 S1: like hot guy. She looks younger than him. And a 383 00:17:44,210 --> 00:17:46,720 S1: lot of key points in this movie that just deflates 384 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,119 S1: the entire concept of the film. Surely I'm not the 385 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,520 S1: only one who felt kind of weird about that. 386 00:17:51,609 --> 00:17:54,250 S2: I think on a base level it just was distracting. Like, 387 00:17:54,250 --> 00:17:55,990 S2: I know he, you know, he had an accident and 388 00:17:55,990 --> 00:17:58,570 S2: then he had jaw surgery or whatever, but like, I mean, 389 00:17:58,570 --> 00:18:01,150 S2: I suspect in only my opinion that he like, added 390 00:18:01,150 --> 00:18:03,160 S2: a couple of things to the to the jaw surgery. 391 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:04,750 S2: Just got a tune up and I just found it 392 00:18:04,750 --> 00:18:07,090 S2: really distracting. Like he doesn't, you know, we had like 393 00:18:07,090 --> 00:18:09,260 S2: that real run of like, heaps of Zac Efron movies. 394 00:18:09,260 --> 00:18:11,450 S2: And he was great, like really funny all the time, 395 00:18:11,450 --> 00:18:14,449 S2: like bad neighbors, all that stuff. And then like, now 396 00:18:14,450 --> 00:18:17,330 S2: he's just a bit it's like he just looks very different. 397 00:18:17,330 --> 00:18:19,760 S2: And in a movie where he's playing like the hot, 398 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,490 S2: attractive Hollywood star and like, his aesthetic is a big 399 00:18:22,490 --> 00:18:25,370 S2: part of the character, I don't know, it then becomes 400 00:18:25,369 --> 00:18:27,740 S2: a part of what makes the movie not work. 401 00:18:27,740 --> 00:18:30,080 S3: We should pull the Google data on like the spike 402 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,330 S3: of the search. How old is Zac Efron? Because that 403 00:18:32,330 --> 00:18:34,240 S3: is exactly what I did when I turned this on, 404 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,700 S3: because I was very confused. 405 00:18:37,090 --> 00:18:39,850 S1: Yeah, it's also sad because he was in a really 406 00:18:39,850 --> 00:18:43,150 S1: good and again, criminally underwatched film from the last year, 407 00:18:43,150 --> 00:18:47,920 S1: The Iron Claw, an A24 movie, Sean Durkin's film about 408 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,430 S1: the real life wrestling family, the Von Von Erichs. And 409 00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:53,710 S1: he was really good in that, like, still looked unusual, 410 00:18:53,710 --> 00:18:55,419 S1: but it made sense for him to be so built 411 00:18:55,420 --> 00:18:58,170 S1: playing like a wrestler. So all of these people can 412 00:18:58,170 --> 00:19:00,240 S1: do great stuff. And you mentioned the Cole film. She 413 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,489 S1: will do great stuff. And yeah, look, as usual, I 414 00:19:02,490 --> 00:19:04,560 S1: could just be being overdramatic and no one will ever 415 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,050 S1: think about this film again. But it does leave you 416 00:19:07,050 --> 00:19:11,220 S1: feeling like a little bit weird inside that this exists 417 00:19:11,220 --> 00:19:13,800 S1: and probably cost millions and millions of dollars at a 418 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,639 S1: time when so much of the entertainment industry is struggling 419 00:19:17,670 --> 00:19:21,080 S1: to make ends meet, it just doesn't feel like the 420 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,540 S1: budgets are working in the direction they should be. 421 00:19:23,540 --> 00:19:25,729 S2: It's very funny that she's now she's basically. Nicole is 422 00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:28,760 S2: working with all of the Iron Claw family members except 423 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:29,930 S2: for Jeremy Allen White. 424 00:19:30,140 --> 00:19:31,040 S1: Yeah, yeah. 425 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:31,669 S2: There's your Segway. 426 00:19:32,060 --> 00:19:36,590 S1: Speaking of Jeremy Allen White, uh, let's talk about the 427 00:19:36,590 --> 00:19:41,240 S1: second half of the Bear season three. Quick recap. We 428 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,600 S1: didn't have a great time with the first five episodes 429 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,939 S1: of this show. We thought they were largely treading water. 430 00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:50,369 S1: There wasn't a lot of plot or character development. There 431 00:19:50,369 --> 00:19:53,490 S1: was heaps of filler, not a lot of ideas. Annoyed 432 00:19:53,490 --> 00:19:58,020 S1: by some of the stylistic and experimental choices we have 433 00:19:58,020 --> 00:20:00,030 S1: not yet talked about episode six of ten, which we're 434 00:20:00,030 --> 00:20:01,949 S1: going to talk about now. And those spoilers for all 435 00:20:01,950 --> 00:20:04,590 S1: of season three of The Bear. I want to get 436 00:20:04,590 --> 00:20:06,780 S1: into it with you guys. But one of the things 437 00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:10,070 S1: that occurred to me about the second half of the show, 438 00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:15,230 S1: which generally speaking, I found significantly better than the first half, 439 00:20:15,230 --> 00:20:18,410 S1: this show has done that rare thing where it's kind 440 00:20:18,410 --> 00:20:22,129 S1: of accidentally struck gold with a format and a setting 441 00:20:22,130 --> 00:20:25,400 S1: and characters that are actually, at their best, quite charming, 442 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,429 S1: quite fun, quite relatable, quite interesting, but it kind of 443 00:20:28,430 --> 00:20:29,750 S1: almost doesn't know what to do with it. And you 444 00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:33,040 S1: think about shows like The Office, which is a sitcom. 445 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:34,300 S1: It's very different to the show in a lot of ways. 446 00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:36,850 S1: But the thing that worked about The Office is you 447 00:20:36,850 --> 00:20:39,100 S1: just kind of care about these characters and whether they 448 00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:42,190 S1: are having fun, whether they are having some emotional moments. 449 00:20:42,190 --> 00:20:44,620 S1: You don't care about the paper company of it all, 450 00:20:44,619 --> 00:20:46,899 S1: you don't care about the mechanics of Dunder Mifflin. You're 451 00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:49,780 S1: just like, I want to see this character explore their 452 00:20:49,780 --> 00:20:52,330 S1: feelings with whatever character. And that's really interesting. And I 453 00:20:52,330 --> 00:20:55,000 S1: think this show, particularly in the second half, is at 454 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,420 S1: its best when there's just great characters who've been built 455 00:20:57,420 --> 00:21:00,870 S1: up to be really rich and interesting, talking about life 456 00:21:00,869 --> 00:21:04,290 S1: and family and marriage and these ideas. But every time 457 00:21:04,290 --> 00:21:08,160 S1: we kind of have fun in those spaces, the show 458 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,669 S1: pulls us back to the kitchen and Carmy and the 459 00:21:11,670 --> 00:21:14,970 S1: world of fine dining that I think just like, deflates 460 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,820 S1: all the excitement and the fun and the energy of 461 00:21:17,820 --> 00:21:20,010 S1: the show. And I think even though I thought the 462 00:21:20,010 --> 00:21:23,100 S1: second half was better, it just didn't get that mix right. 463 00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:25,530 S1: And ultimately, I felt like this was one of the 464 00:21:25,530 --> 00:21:28,920 S1: most disappointing series of TV that I've seen this year, 465 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,670 S1: because the expectations were high and it just didn't really deliver. 466 00:21:32,670 --> 00:21:36,090 S1: So sorry to say I felt pretty sad about it. 467 00:21:36,330 --> 00:21:37,530 S1: I want to know what you guys think. 468 00:21:37,530 --> 00:21:40,050 S3: I think that's really well put. I think we were 469 00:21:40,050 --> 00:21:42,659 S3: all love bombed by this show. It started out as 470 00:21:42,660 --> 00:21:46,020 S3: something particularly you, Thomas Mitchell. It started out as something 471 00:21:46,020 --> 00:21:49,889 S3: really great and then it just couldn't deliver on keep 472 00:21:49,890 --> 00:21:51,750 S3: delivering that. And we were all left being like, but 473 00:21:51,750 --> 00:21:54,630 S3: you were something different, right? We like we were right 474 00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:56,159 S3: to fall in love with you in the first place. 475 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,550 S3: But yeah, I think the second half did get better. 476 00:21:59,550 --> 00:22:03,000 S3: But to me the tone of it was so inconsistent 477 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,149 S3: and the pacing of the episodes so varied. Not in 478 00:22:06,150 --> 00:22:08,880 S3: a good way. It was almost like each episode was 479 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,540 S3: a vignette. But then they didn't all stand together in 480 00:22:11,540 --> 00:22:15,230 S3: some episodes stood up better than others. It started to 481 00:22:15,230 --> 00:22:17,840 S3: get a bit more momentum going in this second half. 482 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,060 S3: There were a few more plot things that developed and 483 00:22:20,060 --> 00:22:22,340 S3: there were great cameos, but I don't think it was 484 00:22:22,340 --> 00:22:25,219 S3: enough to save it. And even the standout episodes to 485 00:22:25,220 --> 00:22:27,470 S3: me were still, they were great, but they were still 486 00:22:27,470 --> 00:22:30,859 S3: kind of very predictable bear territory. 487 00:22:30,859 --> 00:22:32,869 S2: Yeah, I know, again, like I was, I was so 488 00:22:32,869 --> 00:22:34,840 S2: prepared to like the back half and I did like 489 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,640 S2: it better. But it is funny, you know, that we 490 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,820 S2: obviously did part one last week and, you know, always 491 00:22:39,820 --> 00:22:43,300 S2: curious to get a vibe on what everyone's feeling and like, 492 00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:45,970 S2: you know, I shared the podcast on my Instagram and like, 493 00:22:45,970 --> 00:22:48,490 S2: literally I kind of had maybe like 20 replies and 494 00:22:48,490 --> 00:22:51,340 S2: not one person was like, ah, I'm really loving this season. 495 00:22:51,340 --> 00:22:54,340 S2: Like everyone is feeling the same. I think, like there's 496 00:22:54,340 --> 00:22:56,830 S2: just a disappointment because we are in a funny time 497 00:22:56,830 --> 00:22:59,189 S2: as well when there's not heaps of buzzy TV shows around, 498 00:22:59,190 --> 00:23:00,930 S2: like we're all kind of hanging our hat on this 499 00:23:00,930 --> 00:23:02,580 S2: and then like The White Lotus next year, the White 500 00:23:02,580 --> 00:23:04,140 S2: Lotus next year is bad. I'm going to be like 501 00:23:04,140 --> 00:23:05,310 S2: just completely depressed. 502 00:23:06,150 --> 00:23:06,600 S7: But like. 503 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,169 S2: Everyone was psyched for this. And especially I think the 504 00:23:10,170 --> 00:23:13,920 S2: trajectory of the show in between seasons has just like completely, 505 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,989 S2: you know, all the stars are really famous now. And 506 00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:18,659 S2: so everyone was just like, so ready. And then, you know, 507 00:23:18,660 --> 00:23:21,480 S2: it was probably setting itself up for disappointment, uh, Uh, 508 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,720 S2: and even I think going into the second half, having 509 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,940 S2: read so much about like, oh, you know, the napkins 510 00:23:26,940 --> 00:23:29,220 S2: episode by Ayo is going to be great. Ice chips 511 00:23:29,220 --> 00:23:31,590 S2: is a really great two hander. I still don't know 512 00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:34,439 S2: if it really like lifted the season for me. Everything 513 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,750 S2: that the bear did so well in seasons one and two, 514 00:23:36,750 --> 00:23:39,840 S2: all of the tricks have just been completely like mismanaged 515 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,100 S2: or overused. And I just think, yeah, like the show 516 00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:47,400 S2: has lost its way. It's forgotten. Like what makes it joyful. 517 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:48,869 S2: And I never really thought I'd say this, but, like, 518 00:23:48,869 --> 00:23:50,580 S2: I feel like Osmond a few times you've been like, 519 00:23:50,580 --> 00:23:52,859 S2: would this be better as a 20 episode like office 520 00:23:52,859 --> 00:23:56,040 S2: style comedy? And I'm actually kind of agreeing with you now. Maybe, 521 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,530 S2: maybe that's where the show could really shine, but instead 522 00:23:58,530 --> 00:24:01,500 S2: it's become fixated on like being too many things, like 523 00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:05,250 S2: the trauma drama and a workplace drama and a commentary on, 524 00:24:05,250 --> 00:24:07,410 S2: you know, the state of fine dining and, you know, 525 00:24:07,410 --> 00:24:11,630 S2: restaurants in general. It's just so convoluted and hamstrung by 526 00:24:11,630 --> 00:24:13,250 S2: trying to do too many things. Yeah, I think. 527 00:24:13,250 --> 00:24:15,800 S3: They start again and do a Sydney spin off like that. 528 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,360 S3: Would that's what I think we all need. 529 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,330 S1: It's so funny for a show that is about fine 530 00:24:20,330 --> 00:24:23,600 S1: dining and restaurants, every time they talk about that, it's 531 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,640 S1: when I lose the most amount of interest. And we 532 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,379 S1: talked about this last week. I couldn't be more in 533 00:24:27,380 --> 00:24:29,180 S1: the bag for this. As a guy who loves prestige 534 00:24:29,180 --> 00:24:32,480 S1: television and loves fine dining so much that I co-own 535 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,430 S1: a fine dining restaurant, But the show's treatment of that 536 00:24:36,430 --> 00:24:40,990 S1: stuff is so grating and self-indulgent. Honestly, like the finale 537 00:24:40,990 --> 00:24:43,899 S1: of this season took away a lot of the momentum 538 00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:46,000 S1: that I thought the last few episodes had built up 539 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,900 S1: the first half of that finale, just being these real world, 540 00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:53,140 S1: top tier chefs just sitting around a table, giving us 541 00:24:53,140 --> 00:24:55,750 S1: the same vibe on fine dining that we've heard for 542 00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:59,310 S1: three seasons. This is about family. This is about cooking 543 00:24:59,340 --> 00:25:01,919 S1: to make people happy. This is about service. It's like 544 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,159 S1: we know that. Like, I don't care about the woman 545 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,439 S1: who owns Milk Bar. Lecture me on this stuff. And 546 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,409 S1: I think the other thing about the show's treatment of 547 00:25:10,410 --> 00:25:13,439 S1: fine dining is all of these ideas about it being 548 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:18,030 S1: about hospitality and care and nurturing. The kinds of voices 549 00:25:18,030 --> 00:25:21,570 S1: in the show are these top tier, super rich, elite 550 00:25:21,590 --> 00:25:24,620 S1: chefs who run chain restaurants all around the country. It's like, 551 00:25:24,619 --> 00:25:27,080 S1: that's not really what they practice, so it just feels 552 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,609 S1: like quite hollow to me. I can't get excited at 553 00:25:31,609 --> 00:25:34,460 S1: all about the conversations in the show about the actual 554 00:25:34,460 --> 00:25:35,810 S1: world of Restauranting. 555 00:25:35,810 --> 00:25:41,840 S3: That final episode was quite shocking in how terrible it was. 556 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,780 S3: I genuinely thought I was like, has the Fine Dining 557 00:25:44,780 --> 00:25:47,969 S3: Institute of America sponsored this episode or something. 558 00:25:47,970 --> 00:25:48,960 S7: Like right, right. 559 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,850 S1: At some point it became like just a, a lobbying 560 00:25:50,850 --> 00:25:53,190 S1: attempt for a group of like elite restaurateurs. 561 00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:56,010 S3: Yeah, yeah. And at the same time as they're trying to, like, 562 00:25:56,010 --> 00:25:58,230 S3: promote the benefits of fine dining, they're trying to give 563 00:25:58,230 --> 00:26:00,840 S3: us the narrative of how traumatized Carmy is, that he 564 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,540 S3: has to blow up everyone else's life because he's had 565 00:26:03,540 --> 00:26:05,580 S3: such a horrible time learning how to, I don't know, 566 00:26:05,580 --> 00:26:08,670 S3: cross a chicken's legs or whatever that whole thing was about. 567 00:26:08,670 --> 00:26:12,440 S3: I just thought that last episode really was the epitome 568 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,230 S3: of what was wrong with the whole season its reliance 569 00:26:15,230 --> 00:26:20,389 S3: on collage, its melodrama, its musical kind of heavy handedness. 570 00:26:20,390 --> 00:26:22,430 S3: All of those things that we discussed from the first 571 00:26:22,430 --> 00:26:24,470 S3: half were here in the second half, and then they 572 00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:26,300 S3: just put the little cherry on top of the cake 573 00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:27,800 S3: with this final episode. 574 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,840 S2: Yeah. And that's what I mean in terms of like, 575 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,909 S2: who is this show for now? Like I feel like 576 00:26:31,910 --> 00:26:34,040 S2: in the first two seasons, you know, I don't know, 577 00:26:34,060 --> 00:26:35,740 S2: none of us are really, like, super familiar. I mean, 578 00:26:35,740 --> 00:26:38,530 S2: maybe you are Osment with the, like, Chicago dining scene, 579 00:26:38,530 --> 00:26:41,080 S2: but there were like, you know, little snippets of people 580 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:42,970 S2: in the first two seasons that were like winks and 581 00:26:42,970 --> 00:26:44,620 S2: they were like, well used. And everyone was like, oh, 582 00:26:44,619 --> 00:26:47,890 S2: that's cool. That's like insidery. And now it's gone the 583 00:26:47,890 --> 00:26:49,330 S2: complete wrong way. And it's like, I don't know, he's 584 00:26:49,330 --> 00:26:51,580 S2: Christopher Storer. He and his sister have like a deep, 585 00:26:51,580 --> 00:26:54,070 S2: you know, food background. Is he just like trying to 586 00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:56,350 S2: impress these people and like, win them over by putting 587 00:26:56,350 --> 00:26:58,290 S2: them in these like really famous show because it no 588 00:26:58,290 --> 00:27:00,270 S2: longer felt like that was for the audience, that felt 589 00:27:00,270 --> 00:27:02,580 S2: like it was for the people in the show to 590 00:27:02,580 --> 00:27:05,190 S2: be like, you know, like it's weird circle jerk thing, 591 00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:07,560 S2: which is like, not what the bear has ever been about. 592 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,540 S2: And like, you know, I do think all of that 593 00:27:09,540 --> 00:27:12,210 S2: being said, there are still some really beautiful moments in 594 00:27:12,210 --> 00:27:13,949 S2: these episodes. And like, I know we're going to talk 595 00:27:13,950 --> 00:27:16,830 S2: about the episode that was that was great. Like, we, 596 00:27:16,830 --> 00:27:19,320 S2: you know, to to go back into the world of 597 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,690 S2: just that one character and get this bottle episode and, 598 00:27:21,690 --> 00:27:24,110 S2: you know, nothing kind of matches, I guess, like fishes 599 00:27:24,109 --> 00:27:27,050 S2: or forks from last season. But I still thought the 600 00:27:27,050 --> 00:27:29,480 S2: journey of Tina was good. And also it convinced me 601 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,129 S2: once again that the only thing I really want to 602 00:27:31,130 --> 00:27:34,670 S2: eat at the bear or the beef is the Italian sandwich. 603 00:27:34,910 --> 00:27:38,240 S1: Mm. Yeah. Let's talk about the stuff that was good. 604 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,540 S1: Like the Tina episode. I enjoyed it because it was 605 00:27:41,540 --> 00:27:44,750 S1: a respite from all the wanky circle jerk stuff, and 606 00:27:44,750 --> 00:27:46,410 S1: it gave me stuff that I kind of didn't know 607 00:27:46,410 --> 00:27:48,689 S1: that I needed or wanted. But then when I got it, 608 00:27:48,690 --> 00:27:50,610 S1: I was like, this is actually cool. Like, I didn't 609 00:27:50,609 --> 00:27:53,220 S1: know anything about how long Tina had been working at 610 00:27:53,250 --> 00:27:55,619 S1: that restaurant, getting an insight into her life, getting a 611 00:27:55,619 --> 00:27:58,740 S1: snapshot of just like working class life in America. For 612 00:27:58,740 --> 00:28:02,040 S1: someone from that kind of background and the the struggles 613 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,790 S1: that you experienced, the meeting with Jon Bernthal. Like, it's 614 00:28:05,790 --> 00:28:08,310 S1: so good to see Jon Bernthal in the show. That 615 00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:10,520 S1: was awesome. Just like 15 minutes of them sitting at 616 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,060 S1: a table talking about their life, their work, their dreams, 617 00:28:14,060 --> 00:28:16,700 S1: what they want to achieve that felt like quite meaningful 618 00:28:16,700 --> 00:28:18,650 S1: and nice and was a really good break from all 619 00:28:18,650 --> 00:28:22,640 S1: the bullshit of the kami. Oh my God, it's so 620 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,830 S1: hard to get the wishbone out of the chicken man 621 00:28:24,830 --> 00:28:25,250 S1: who gives up. 622 00:28:25,250 --> 00:28:26,990 S2: That's what I mean. Like watching the two of them 623 00:28:26,990 --> 00:28:29,360 S2: talk like it was. That was like a really beautiful 624 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,840 S2: human moment when they're like, comparing their shitty days. And he, like, 625 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,880 S2: goes first and then she goes next. And that's like, 626 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,709 S2: how many people do that every day when you're like, 627 00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:38,840 S2: I'm having a bad day. Me too. Like, okay, you download, 628 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,210 S2: then I'll download. Like, that's the show at its very best. 629 00:28:41,210 --> 00:28:43,670 S2: You know, you've just got two people in a situation. 630 00:28:43,670 --> 00:28:45,290 S2: They find their way to one another and then like 631 00:28:45,290 --> 00:28:48,500 S2: we go from there and it's just so much more relatable. 632 00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:50,750 S2: So I just thought like that the episode worked really 633 00:28:50,750 --> 00:28:53,000 S2: well and like, I thought her husband was a great character. 634 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,100 S2: It just. Yeah, it was it was really nice. And, 635 00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:57,620 S2: you know, I thought in terms of like a great, 636 00:28:57,620 --> 00:29:00,190 S2: you know, addition to her CV, the way that like 637 00:29:00,190 --> 00:29:02,800 S2: the repetition of her of Tina every day, like going 638 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,360 S2: out to find a job, like the way it was 639 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,520 S2: cut together, like it looked great. So that to me 640 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:07,840 S2: was like the standout. 641 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,719 S3: Yeah, I think that episode is an achievement. But then 642 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,390 S3: when you look at it in the season overall, it 643 00:29:13,390 --> 00:29:15,850 S3: just makes you more confused about what the bear is 644 00:29:15,850 --> 00:29:17,650 S3: trying to do and be. And I think you're right, 645 00:29:17,650 --> 00:29:20,470 S3: like the reason it was so welcomed was because we 646 00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:24,080 S3: just had such a lead up of fairly average episodes, 647 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,240 S3: without a lot going on. I do think this show 648 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,360 S3: is like very kind to its characters. There was that 649 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,690 S3: moment in the In the Tina episode where she says 650 00:29:32,690 --> 00:29:35,510 S3: something like, she's not, she doesn't, she doesn't attack all 651 00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:37,610 S3: the younger people who have kind of dismissed her and 652 00:29:37,610 --> 00:29:40,729 S3: rolled their eyes at her because of her background. She's 653 00:29:40,730 --> 00:29:42,680 S3: very generous about it, and I do think that is 654 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,680 S3: something this show does sometimes, for good or for bad, 655 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,970 S3: that it's kind to its characters. 656 00:29:47,970 --> 00:29:51,300 S1: Yeah, people are kind of like, uh, victims of circumstance 657 00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:54,570 S1: and of the structures around them, rather than being individual, 658 00:29:54,570 --> 00:29:57,660 S1: morally bad people. It's like what Tina is going through 659 00:29:57,660 --> 00:30:01,440 S1: is a structural readjustment of the Chicago economy, where people 660 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,260 S1: like her are considered devalued and a whole generation of 661 00:30:04,260 --> 00:30:07,710 S1: just like young, hyper addicted to work people who don't 662 00:30:07,710 --> 00:30:09,750 S1: care about it because they're alienated, whatever. That's smart and. 663 00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:13,460 S3: Interesting. Yeah, definitely. And very traitor with a lot of dignity. 664 00:30:13,460 --> 00:30:15,170 S3: So I thought that was really good. And then obviously 665 00:30:15,170 --> 00:30:19,760 S3: the other one was, uh, where sugar has her baby, um, 666 00:30:20,060 --> 00:30:25,010 S3: which I thought was a very another very moving, powerful episode. 667 00:30:25,010 --> 00:30:27,020 S2: Yeah, it was funny because I feel like everyone was, 668 00:30:27,020 --> 00:30:29,150 S2: I guess, waiting for the return of Jamie Lee Curtis, 669 00:30:29,150 --> 00:30:30,860 S2: that we all knew it was coming. And, you know, 670 00:30:30,860 --> 00:30:34,040 S2: she was such a standout in fishers. I thought this 671 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,340 S2: episode was good too. Not quite as like I didn't 672 00:30:36,340 --> 00:30:38,350 S2: lose my mind over it like everyone else did. I 673 00:30:38,350 --> 00:30:41,320 S2: think Jamie Lee is so good at playing like manic 674 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,080 S2: like her. She gets that look in her eyes. Basically, 675 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:45,970 S2: her and Claire Danes have like, the best crazy eyes 676 00:30:45,970 --> 00:30:48,550 S2: in the business. But yeah, like, I thought the episode 677 00:30:48,550 --> 00:30:50,380 S2: was good and and, you know, there was some really 678 00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:53,890 S2: beautiful moments. But again, it's just like, it feels so 679 00:30:53,890 --> 00:30:56,920 S2: strange to be sitting here talking about the bear and being, like, 680 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,320 S2: almost like having to cling on to these two, like 681 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,960 S2: pretty good episodes as a way of like justifying the 682 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:02,770 S2: third season. 683 00:31:02,770 --> 00:31:04,480 S3: This is the funeral for the bear. Mhm. 684 00:31:05,890 --> 00:31:07,510 S1: Um, one other bit that I just wanted to talk 685 00:31:07,510 --> 00:31:10,090 S1: about the two, two bits that are not part of 686 00:31:10,090 --> 00:31:12,610 S1: those two standalone episodes that I really enjoyed, that I 687 00:31:12,610 --> 00:31:14,680 S1: also think go to what the show could be at 688 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,230 S1: its best if it just maybe, maybe part of the 689 00:31:17,230 --> 00:31:19,930 S1: issue is that Christopher Storer had two critically acclaimed seasons 690 00:31:19,930 --> 00:31:22,060 S1: of the show, and the network's like, you just do 691 00:31:22,060 --> 00:31:24,120 S1: whatever you want to do, and he indulged some of 692 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,460 S1: his instincts when it needed to be pared back a bit. 693 00:31:26,460 --> 00:31:28,860 S1: The bits that I think it could focus on more 694 00:31:28,860 --> 00:31:31,200 S1: when the facts who I think have just been in 695 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,060 S1: the show a bit too much. There's too many facts. 696 00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:34,950 S1: There's I don't know whether it's about them trying to 697 00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:37,830 S1: justify their comedy entry at the Emmys, which I think 698 00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:39,960 S1: is maybe part of it, because there's been this constant 699 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,350 S1: conversation of how is the bear in the comedy category? 700 00:31:43,350 --> 00:31:46,080 S1: This is like category fraud. And now they're like, no, no, no, 701 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,900 S1: it's funny. We've got these funny guys. Generally they they 702 00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:51,300 S1: didn't do much for me. But when they go to 703 00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:53,790 S1: visit Claire in the hospital, I thought that was kind 704 00:31:53,790 --> 00:31:56,430 S1: of interesting. And I think, what do you do with 705 00:31:56,430 --> 00:31:58,950 S1: a show that for three seasons has been set in 706 00:31:58,950 --> 00:32:02,670 S1: the same venue, with the same characters? To move things forward, 707 00:32:02,670 --> 00:32:05,070 S1: you kind of need to push things. You need to 708 00:32:05,070 --> 00:32:07,980 S1: like introduce new characters or new settings or new drama, 709 00:32:07,980 --> 00:32:09,930 S1: new tension. And this was an example of that. We're 710 00:32:09,930 --> 00:32:12,240 S1: in a different space. I didn't love Claire in the 711 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,490 S1: second season, but I found her quite interesting. Now, two 712 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,000 S1: characters who've never interacted with her on screen, their dynamic, 713 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,060 S1: how they're talking about the relationship between her and kami. 714 00:32:21,150 --> 00:32:22,920 S1: It's kind of funny. It was kind of heartfelt. That 715 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,380 S1: was really good. And then the other one like that 716 00:32:25,380 --> 00:32:28,530 S1: was when Richie talks to his ex-wife in the playground. 717 00:32:28,530 --> 00:32:32,040 S1: I wish more of the season had been Richie and 718 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,480 S1: his freaking out about the wedding. Basically everything that he 719 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,050 S1: did was really interesting. Gillian Jacobs is really good. That 720 00:32:39,050 --> 00:32:43,580 S1: was also really cool. It's new characters pushing old characters 721 00:32:43,580 --> 00:32:47,300 S1: in certain directions, making them grapple with change. Life circumstances. 722 00:32:47,300 --> 00:32:50,210 S1: Like that's what's so good about TV as a medium 723 00:32:50,210 --> 00:32:54,200 S1: is you create characters, you create settings, you think you 724 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,660 S1: know them, and then you throw challenges their way and 725 00:32:56,660 --> 00:32:58,310 S1: you see how they fend them off. And when the 726 00:32:58,310 --> 00:33:01,570 S1: show did that a bit, it was great. Overwhelmingly, the 727 00:33:01,570 --> 00:33:03,340 S1: show just didn't do it. And it certainly didn't do 728 00:33:03,340 --> 00:33:05,530 S1: it with Carmy, who is dealing with the same challenge 729 00:33:05,530 --> 00:33:06,730 S1: he's dealt with his entire life. 730 00:33:06,730 --> 00:33:08,860 S2: And to have the entire stakes of the season let 731 00:33:08,860 --> 00:33:11,110 S2: rest on. A review from the Chicago Tribune like that 732 00:33:11,110 --> 00:33:13,630 S2: just doesn't in this day and age. Like people just 733 00:33:13,630 --> 00:33:17,140 S2: don't care. Like it's hard to get people to be 734 00:33:17,140 --> 00:33:19,570 S2: as invested in, like the outcome of that as a 735 00:33:19,570 --> 00:33:21,640 S2: as it was, for instance, even in the last season 736 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,510 S2: finale when it was like, you know, Carmy having a 737 00:33:23,510 --> 00:33:25,730 S2: breakdown and possibly blowing up his relationship as well as 738 00:33:25,730 --> 00:33:28,340 S2: his relationship with Richie, like, people can get around that. 739 00:33:28,340 --> 00:33:31,730 S2: Whereas like, you know, cutting on, you know, a Google 740 00:33:31,730 --> 00:33:34,100 S2: alert that the review from the Chicago Tribune has come 741 00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:34,520 S2: in like. 742 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,270 S1: Honestly, what's more stressful is your Google rating dropping from 743 00:33:38,270 --> 00:33:41,600 S1: like 4.7 to 4.4, because a bunch of racist people 744 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,270 S1: give you reviews like that is more detrimental to your 745 00:33:44,270 --> 00:33:47,510 S1: financial bottom line than a review in a legacy newspaper. 746 00:33:47,510 --> 00:33:50,440 S1: No offense to our wonderful colleagues at Good Food, but 747 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,580 S1: the economics of restaurants don't really live or die. On 748 00:33:54,580 --> 00:33:57,400 S1: one review from something like the Chicago Tribune, and as 749 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,980 S1: if it wasn't already annoying enough to have that be 750 00:33:59,980 --> 00:34:02,560 S1: the main stakes of the season, you then have uncle 751 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,410 S1: just be like, hey, by the way, this review is bad. Like, 752 00:34:05,410 --> 00:34:06,880 S1: I'm going to destroy your restaurant. 753 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,589 S7: Yeah, that was not necessary. 754 00:34:09,340 --> 00:34:12,650 S3: I think that you're so right like that. The elements 755 00:34:12,650 --> 00:34:15,290 S3: where they push the plot forward with characters who weren't 756 00:34:15,290 --> 00:34:17,930 S3: kami was when it's at its best. And the other 757 00:34:17,930 --> 00:34:21,830 S3: good storyline was Sydney's wrestling about whether to leave the 758 00:34:21,830 --> 00:34:25,250 S3: restaurant and go and chase up other opportunities. And considering 759 00:34:25,250 --> 00:34:28,310 S3: what she's built at the bear and the fine dining 760 00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:31,370 S3: restaurant versus the potential she has and how to grow, 761 00:34:31,370 --> 00:34:34,370 S3: how to change, I thought that was also really interesting. Sadly, 762 00:34:34,370 --> 00:34:37,000 S3: it didn't get developed much. Hopefully it will move on, 763 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,370 S3: but I'm really glad we've all come around to that. 764 00:34:39,370 --> 00:34:44,680 S3: The kami character, the emotionally repressed chef. 765 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:45,790 S1: Happy to lord this over. 766 00:34:46,180 --> 00:34:49,630 S3: Like the emotionally repressed chef who can't express himself and 767 00:34:49,630 --> 00:34:53,589 S3: makes everyone else's life a living nightmare. Like, I think 768 00:34:53,590 --> 00:34:55,989 S3: we're done with it. I was we're I think society 769 00:34:55,989 --> 00:34:57,430 S3: has agreed that we're we're over. 770 00:34:57,430 --> 00:34:57,790 S7: It's almost like. 771 00:34:57,790 --> 00:34:59,259 S2: Kami brought it back. And then he killed it. 772 00:34:59,260 --> 00:35:00,989 S3: Yeah, he killed it himself. 773 00:35:01,350 --> 00:35:01,920 S7: Yeah. 774 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,040 S2: I mean, look, I haven't loved kami this season either. Obviously, 775 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:06,900 S2: I still, you know, he's still my boy. But I 776 00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:10,350 S2: guess the question will be in, you know, do does 777 00:35:10,350 --> 00:35:12,690 S2: the same sense of reviews spell the end of the bear? 778 00:35:12,690 --> 00:35:15,450 S2: Because the reviews have generally been quite bad and, well, 779 00:35:15,450 --> 00:35:18,630 S2: you know, a single bad review may not impact the 780 00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:21,600 S2: restaurant in the show's universe. I don't know, I feel 781 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,190 S2: like definitely the spate of bad reviews for season three 782 00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:28,549 S2: is going to temper expectations for season four. We assume 783 00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:30,109 S2: that's probably going to be the last season anyway because 784 00:35:30,110 --> 00:35:32,150 S2: they filmed them back to back, but it creates an 785 00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:35,630 S2: interesting environment for season four to enter into because the 786 00:35:35,630 --> 00:35:37,939 S2: show has been great. Season three, they cooked it and 787 00:35:37,940 --> 00:35:40,790 S2: now we're getting this last season. Like what? What happens now? 788 00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:44,060 S3: It's almost kind of a shame that they've already filmed 789 00:35:44,060 --> 00:35:46,790 S3: the final season, because not that I think that it's 790 00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:50,739 S3: always helpful for creators to have real feedback on their 791 00:35:50,739 --> 00:35:52,629 S3: work as they're making it, but maybe in this case 792 00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:53,410 S3: it would have been. 793 00:35:53,860 --> 00:35:56,379 S1: Yeah, I feel like Chris Torres online enough to have 794 00:35:56,380 --> 00:35:58,660 S1: been across what worked and didn't work from this season. 795 00:35:58,660 --> 00:36:00,760 S1: And I think you're spot on that it might have 796 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,890 S1: been good to just like, have that input a little 797 00:36:02,890 --> 00:36:06,129 S1: bit and dial things in a different way. We don't 798 00:36:06,130 --> 00:36:08,170 S1: know though, right? Like we have talked about how it 799 00:36:08,170 --> 00:36:10,240 S1: felt like this season was stretching out. Not a lot 800 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,900 S1: of plot very thinly. Maybe there's a lot in the 801 00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:16,500 S1: chamber for season four. Like I'm still excited for it. 802 00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:18,689 S1: When the show is good, it makes me feel really happy. 803 00:36:18,690 --> 00:36:22,620 S1: I have some expectations that we could get something better, 804 00:36:22,770 --> 00:36:25,620 S1: and I guess the advantage at this point is expectations 805 00:36:25,620 --> 00:36:28,740 S1: are low so we can only be like, happily surprised. 806 00:36:28,739 --> 00:36:32,009 S1: So it'll be fun to talk about it next year 807 00:36:32,010 --> 00:36:35,340 S1: when the show's out. But um, yeah, sad to say, 808 00:36:35,350 --> 00:36:38,890 S1: not one of our best viewing experiences this year. No. 809 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,779 S2: Do not let it rip. Just let it simmer a 810 00:36:40,780 --> 00:36:41,290 S2: bit more. 811 00:36:53,110 --> 00:36:55,330 S1: All right, let's talk about music. We cover the music 812 00:36:55,330 --> 00:36:58,060 S1: industry a lot in our jobs here at the Sydney 813 00:36:58,060 --> 00:37:00,520 S1: Morning Herald and The Age. And over the last couple 814 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,670 S1: of years there's been some pretty clear and I'd say 815 00:37:03,670 --> 00:37:07,810 S1: depressing patterns about what's going on live music right now. 816 00:37:07,810 --> 00:37:10,239 S1: If you're not one of the biggest artists in the world, 817 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,299 S1: Taylor Swift, Fred again level. It's really tough. It's tough 818 00:37:13,300 --> 00:37:15,459 S1: to sell out shows. It's tough to get people to 819 00:37:15,460 --> 00:37:18,430 S1: pay money to come and see you. In Australia in particular, 820 00:37:18,430 --> 00:37:22,089 S1: Australian artists are really struggling to break through the traditional 821 00:37:22,090 --> 00:37:25,040 S1: model of how they could make a living and boost 822 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,759 S1: their careers kind of doesn't work anymore. For most of 823 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:33,230 S1: the last 50 years, certainly most of our lives artists 824 00:37:33,230 --> 00:37:36,170 S1: could make a buck playing in small, medium sized venues 825 00:37:36,170 --> 00:37:39,200 S1: across the country. They could tour big festivals up and 826 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,830 S1: down the East coast. Triple J getting a song playlisted 827 00:37:42,830 --> 00:37:45,290 S1: on that would give you huge amounts of coverage and 828 00:37:45,290 --> 00:37:48,319 S1: attention and boost your sales. Triple J just does not 829 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,500 S1: rate in the way that it used to. It can't 830 00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:54,069 S1: influence the tastes of Australians in the same way anymore. 831 00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:58,480 S1: The biggest drivers of musical discovery now things like Spotify, YouTube, 832 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,330 S1: TikTok these are places where Australian artists are just getting 833 00:38:01,330 --> 00:38:04,090 S1: drowned out by the sheer volume of what is going 834 00:38:04,090 --> 00:38:09,610 S1: on internationally, and you can actually see this represented numerically 835 00:38:09,610 --> 00:38:13,549 S1: in the Aria charts. And Mel, you're a recent addition 836 00:38:13,550 --> 00:38:15,530 S1: to my Instagram follower list. 837 00:38:15,770 --> 00:38:17,450 S7: Well, welcome to the madness. 838 00:38:17,450 --> 00:38:19,969 S1: Yeah, welcome to the madness. Thomas, you've been there a 839 00:38:19,969 --> 00:38:22,280 S1: little bit longer. You might not have witnessed this, but, um, 840 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:27,259 S1: every so often when, uh, the Aria Instagram page releases, 841 00:38:27,260 --> 00:38:30,320 S1: it's like top ten Australian singles or top ten singles. 842 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,319 S1: I will share it because for the last like ten years, 843 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,259 S1: there's largely been like one song in the top 50, 844 00:38:36,260 --> 00:38:38,200 S1: and that has been Vance Joy's Riptide. 845 00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:39,100 S7: What a song though. 846 00:38:39,219 --> 00:38:43,660 UU: Are you running down to the Riptide? Taken away to 847 00:38:43,660 --> 00:38:47,350 UU: the dark side I want to be your left hand man. 848 00:38:48,130 --> 00:38:51,219 S1: I love people who are close to me. You know 849 00:38:51,219 --> 00:38:53,560 S1: will tease me about my obsession with that song and 850 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,440 S1: how it charts. For the record. I don't hate the song. 851 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,380 S1: I don't hate Vance Joy at all. I think it 852 00:38:59,380 --> 00:39:03,069 S1: is remarkable in not a good way, that this one 853 00:39:03,070 --> 00:39:06,940 S1: song is the only commercially successful Australian song for the past, 854 00:39:06,940 --> 00:39:09,400 S1: like 11 years. But let's look at the Aria charts 855 00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:12,219 S1: this week, for example. So in the top 50 singles 856 00:39:12,219 --> 00:39:14,740 S1: on the Aria charts right now there are only three 857 00:39:14,770 --> 00:39:18,189 S1: Australian artists. It's actually like 1 or 2 more than 858 00:39:18,190 --> 00:39:20,410 S1: it's been for most of the year. Uh, The Kid 859 00:39:20,410 --> 00:39:22,390 S1: Laroi is there with a couple of tracks, his new 860 00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:25,700 S1: single and his, uh, previous one. There's a DJ. I 861 00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:28,310 S1: don't know if you guys are across this guy Cyril. Uh, 862 00:39:28,310 --> 00:39:32,330 S1: he kind of just reworks of songs he has remixed 863 00:39:32,330 --> 00:39:35,150 S1: stumbling in the Suzi Quatro and Chris Norman track. He's 864 00:39:35,150 --> 00:39:39,290 S1: up There. Good on DJ Cyril. And then there's Vance 865 00:39:39,290 --> 00:39:41,960 S1: Joy with Riptide, a song that was released 11 years ago. 866 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,129 S1: That is what is charting in terms of Australian artists 867 00:39:46,130 --> 00:39:49,540 S1: right now. And when you look at specifically the top 868 00:39:49,540 --> 00:39:54,070 S1: 20 Australian singles right now, it's kind of even more grim. 869 00:39:54,070 --> 00:39:56,950 S1: Four of them out of the top 20 are AC 870 00:39:56,950 --> 00:40:00,370 S1: DC songs released like at least 30 or 40 years ago. 871 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,700 S1: There's another six songs that are at least 10 or 872 00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:06,160 S1: 15 years old, so that's half of the top 20 873 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:10,060 S1: being 15 years or older. There are two different versions 874 00:40:10,060 --> 00:40:13,130 S1: of gorgeous. Somebody I Used to Know like, this is 875 00:40:13,130 --> 00:40:16,190 S1: it's not good, right? And I guess the question is, 876 00:40:16,190 --> 00:40:20,570 S1: rant aside, Oz, like, what does this mean? And maybe 877 00:40:20,570 --> 00:40:23,420 S1: the way to start the conversation with you guys, I 878 00:40:23,420 --> 00:40:26,569 S1: ran into our colleague Marnie, who's on the sports team here, 879 00:40:26,570 --> 00:40:29,810 S1: and she was wearing a jumper. A client liaison jumper 880 00:40:29,810 --> 00:40:31,610 S1: looked really cool and I was like, oh, we're talking 881 00:40:31,610 --> 00:40:34,040 S1: about Australian music today. Like, are you listening to any 882 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,420 S1: Australian acts that are new or interesting? And she's like, no, 883 00:40:37,420 --> 00:40:41,470 S1: I don't even know where I would discover Australian music anymore. 884 00:40:41,469 --> 00:40:43,900 S1: And all three of us work in this industry, so 885 00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:45,850 S1: we're sort of like a bit of a biased sample. 886 00:40:45,850 --> 00:40:49,419 S1: But putting aside getting media releases from labels or from 887 00:40:49,420 --> 00:40:52,719 S1: acts themselves, how were you guys, if at all, you 888 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,980 S1: are discovering new Australian songs or music? 889 00:40:56,980 --> 00:40:59,650 S3: I think that really hits the nail on the head. 890 00:40:59,650 --> 00:41:02,940 S3: Like that question summarizes what the issue is, which is 891 00:41:02,940 --> 00:41:06,510 S3: that Australian artists are finding it impossible to break through 892 00:41:06,510 --> 00:41:09,030 S3: and to reach new audiences. When you think about, like 893 00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:12,960 S3: the traditional methods of discovery, they're no longer there. Triple 894 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,250 S3: J is struggling, we know, to retain a Gen Z audience. 895 00:41:17,250 --> 00:41:21,029 S3: We know that music street presses are not thriving in 896 00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:24,390 S3: the way that they used to. And we also know 897 00:41:24,390 --> 00:41:26,180 S3: that the charts and I don't think this is the 898 00:41:26,180 --> 00:41:28,009 S3: answer to the problem, but it is obviously part of 899 00:41:28,010 --> 00:41:32,270 S3: a bigger discussion. The charts aren't reflecting the Australian acts 900 00:41:32,270 --> 00:41:35,510 S3: that are coming through, because the way that they're the 901 00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:40,790 S3: data is collected is obviously privileging visibility, which is why 902 00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:44,239 S3: you get superstars monopolizing it and why you get old 903 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,060 S3: favourites staying on the list. So I think that is 904 00:41:47,060 --> 00:41:50,530 S3: the issue is that people aren't finding new artists. The 905 00:41:50,530 --> 00:41:53,560 S3: venues are collapsing, as we know, during Covid more than 906 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,260 S3: 1000 closed down. So that would have been another traditional 907 00:41:56,260 --> 00:41:59,470 S3: method live music. And that's not there anymore. How do 908 00:41:59,469 --> 00:42:01,359 S3: I find I'm like, I guess I'm pretty lucky in 909 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,770 S3: the job that I'm in. We often get approached by 910 00:42:05,770 --> 00:42:08,710 S3: record companies who are showing their new acts, and that 911 00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:11,530 S3: is actually how I've discovered a lot of Australian music, 912 00:42:11,530 --> 00:42:14,540 S3: and particularly that like peaches PRC. Every so often we 913 00:42:14,540 --> 00:42:18,440 S3: will do, uh, kind of young music to watch story. 914 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,540 S3: So I guess that's really how I find it through 915 00:42:20,540 --> 00:42:23,960 S3: this like position, lucky position that I'm in. But if 916 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,140 S3: you're not in industries where you're getting that kind of access, 917 00:42:27,140 --> 00:42:28,520 S3: I don't know where you're finding it. 918 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,009 S2: Yeah, it is really strange. Like, I, I feel like 919 00:42:31,010 --> 00:42:34,640 S2: I have had like, really strange experiences that speak to, 920 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,779 S2: I guess, so many of the problems that we have, like, okay, 921 00:42:37,780 --> 00:42:39,819 S2: for instance, when you get into the car and you drive, 922 00:42:39,820 --> 00:42:43,029 S2: most people I would say have their automatically your Bluetooth 923 00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:44,830 S2: hooks up to your car and you listen to music 924 00:42:44,830 --> 00:42:48,009 S2: on streaming that you've already been listening to. Uh, but like, 925 00:42:48,010 --> 00:42:49,600 S2: you know, every so often, if you just like chuck 926 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,880 S2: the radio on, I will regularly like if I have 927 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,680 S2: triple J on, I hear a song I like, I'll 928 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,960 S2: then like look up that artist on my Spotify. And 929 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,060 S2: then eventually, once you've like, say you listen to their album, 930 00:42:58,060 --> 00:43:00,219 S2: then you get to like the artist radio. That to 931 00:43:00,219 --> 00:43:02,610 S2: me has been a path to find new stuff, but 932 00:43:02,610 --> 00:43:05,160 S2: that's such a convoluted way of having to, like, stumble 933 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,799 S2: onto new Australian artists. So I remember like for ages 934 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,020 S2: when I first got into Bad dreams, then through the 935 00:43:10,020 --> 00:43:12,089 S2: bad dreams like Artist Radio, I found all these other 936 00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:14,520 S2: Australian bands that you know, are similar ish and that 937 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,830 S2: opens up. But like that is a very that's a 938 00:43:16,830 --> 00:43:18,899 S2: lot of steps to get to new music. 939 00:43:18,930 --> 00:43:22,200 S1: Yeah, totally. And Spotify is a really interesting one. I 940 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,629 S1: was trying to see if there are any new music 941 00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:27,739 S1: Australian Spotify playlist, and there were some that you think 942 00:43:27,739 --> 00:43:29,930 S1: might be new Australian songs, and they're not like Hot 943 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,780 S1: Hits Australia. That's a playlist. What if I curate? It's 944 00:43:32,780 --> 00:43:36,020 S1: not Australian music, it's just like big international tracks that 945 00:43:36,020 --> 00:43:40,040 S1: are curated for Australian listeners. That's a bit confusing. I 946 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,770 S1: like drill music, as you guys know, and so Spotify 947 00:43:42,770 --> 00:43:45,950 S1: served me an Aussie drill playlist and I thought, well, 948 00:43:45,950 --> 00:43:49,810 S1: this might be some new drill tracks. No, it's like 949 00:43:49,810 --> 00:43:52,540 S1: in the beginning by one for if you know, you 950 00:43:52,540 --> 00:43:55,240 S1: know by hooligan houses are like five six year old songs. 951 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,670 S1: Cosby Sweater by the Hilltop Hoods, which is absolutely not 952 00:43:57,670 --> 00:44:00,459 S1: a drill song. It's on that playlist. And I think 953 00:44:00,460 --> 00:44:02,590 S1: if it wasn't for the work that I do or 954 00:44:02,590 --> 00:44:04,990 S1: the fact that I have a lot of friends and 955 00:44:04,989 --> 00:44:07,719 S1: kind of former colleagues who work in the music industry 956 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,250 S1: or are artists, I. 957 00:44:09,250 --> 00:44:09,730 S7: Would. 958 00:44:09,730 --> 00:44:13,330 S1: Generally really struggle. And if that's how I feel, I 959 00:44:13,330 --> 00:44:16,310 S1: don't blame normal people for not understanding what is happening 960 00:44:16,310 --> 00:44:19,609 S1: in the Australian music landscape right now. And I think 961 00:44:19,610 --> 00:44:22,580 S1: it's so it's so interesting because we talked about triple J, 962 00:44:22,580 --> 00:44:24,980 S1: we talk about triple J a couple of times that 963 00:44:24,980 --> 00:44:28,910 S1: was created to basically solve the same problem that we're 964 00:44:28,910 --> 00:44:32,600 S1: having now. There wasn't an Australian radio station that played 965 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,439 S1: Australian music to younger people, and there was concerns that 966 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,580 S1: Australian artists and Australian audiences were going to miss out 967 00:44:39,580 --> 00:44:45,070 S1: on a generation of sounds, ideas, storytelling. So the government 968 00:44:45,070 --> 00:44:48,070 S1: needed to create something to nurture it, because ultimately, I 969 00:44:48,070 --> 00:44:50,800 S1: think there's a general belief that it's important to have 970 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,310 S1: a creative and artistic community in Australia, and it's important 971 00:44:54,310 --> 00:44:57,580 S1: for artists to be able to tell Australian stories musically 972 00:44:57,580 --> 00:45:00,850 S1: and otherwise. So the government did it. Now the idea 973 00:45:00,850 --> 00:45:04,440 S1: of like the government creating its own streaming platform, or 974 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:09,299 S1: even trying to regulate streaming platforms to encourage Australian music 975 00:45:09,300 --> 00:45:11,370 S1: feels pretty far fetched. Like they can't even really do 976 00:45:11,370 --> 00:45:15,090 S1: it right with meta to keep journalists employed. We've talked 977 00:45:15,090 --> 00:45:17,700 S1: about streaming quotas on things like Netflix that was supposed 978 00:45:17,700 --> 00:45:20,009 S1: to happen this year. It looks like from people I 979 00:45:20,010 --> 00:45:22,500 S1: speak to in the industry, that might not happen before 980 00:45:22,500 --> 00:45:25,290 S1: the next federal election. I can't really get a handle 981 00:45:25,290 --> 00:45:29,030 S1: on whether people think or realize that this is a 982 00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:32,419 S1: significant issue. I'm interested to get your guys vibes on that. 983 00:45:32,420 --> 00:45:34,760 S1: Like you're talking about the venue shutting down Mel. I 984 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:36,920 S1: think there's a bit of conversation about that. There's a 985 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,560 S1: bit of conversation about the issues in festival land, like 986 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,350 S1: there are government inquiries looking at live music. I don't 987 00:45:42,350 --> 00:45:44,600 S1: know if enough people are really across the fact that 988 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,230 S1: just the bare bones nature of I'm an artist trying 989 00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:50,620 S1: to make a song and get that song played and 990 00:45:50,620 --> 00:45:53,110 S1: get people to listen to it, which is the very 991 00:45:53,110 --> 00:45:55,629 S1: base level of how this industry is supposed to work, 992 00:45:55,630 --> 00:45:59,140 S1: is kind of fundamentally broken. Do people know that? 993 00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:02,830 S2: I mean, I would say from the, you know, sample 994 00:46:02,830 --> 00:46:05,530 S2: size of the people I know, and we've obviously discussed 995 00:46:05,530 --> 00:46:08,170 S2: that they're not exactly the greatest people sometimes. But like 996 00:46:08,170 --> 00:46:11,440 S2: I would say that they they not only do they 997 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,149 S2: not know, but like perhaps they don't care, which is 998 00:46:14,150 --> 00:46:16,910 S2: like depressing and perhaps an indictment on like, I don't 999 00:46:16,910 --> 00:46:20,299 S2: know where people in this particular, you know, day and 1000 00:46:20,300 --> 00:46:23,060 S2: age in the moment we exist in right now value, 1001 00:46:23,060 --> 00:46:25,129 S2: you know, the importance of new music. But like I 1002 00:46:25,130 --> 00:46:28,310 S2: just don't think they do like, I like it's it's 1003 00:46:28,310 --> 00:46:30,860 S2: sad to say, but I definitely feel like even my, 1004 00:46:30,860 --> 00:46:34,190 S2: my friends who aren't really into like, you know, entertainment 1005 00:46:34,190 --> 00:46:36,080 S2: and music and the arts and stuff, like in terms 1006 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:37,969 S2: of where new music ranks in their list of priorities, 1007 00:46:37,969 --> 00:46:40,089 S2: like they'll be way more across, like what's going on 1008 00:46:40,090 --> 00:46:43,000 S2: in film and TV and that landscape, as opposed to 1009 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,250 S2: like new music. I don't know, I feel like as 1010 00:46:45,250 --> 00:46:47,770 S2: you get older, unfortunately, people get rusted on to what 1011 00:46:47,770 --> 00:46:51,670 S2: they know. And the passion for discovering new music especially, 1012 00:46:51,670 --> 00:46:53,650 S2: is something that like dulls. And unless you happen to 1013 00:46:53,650 --> 00:46:55,870 S2: be in the industry, which we all are, people don't 1014 00:46:55,870 --> 00:46:57,700 S2: really go seeking it out in the way that they go. 1015 00:46:57,700 --> 00:47:00,489 S2: Seeking out the new TV series, the new film, because 1016 00:47:00,489 --> 00:47:02,460 S2: that stuff gets fed to us more and more. And so, 1017 00:47:02,460 --> 00:47:05,160 S2: I don't know, it's like on so many different fronts, 1018 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,110 S2: I think, you know, to be a new group or 1019 00:47:07,110 --> 00:47:09,629 S2: a new artist, you're facing like a lot of different battles. 1020 00:47:09,630 --> 00:47:13,080 S3: Yeah. And I also don't know if people fully realize 1021 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,470 S3: the necessity of protecting Australian culture and why it's important 1022 00:47:16,469 --> 00:47:20,069 S3: to support Australian new artists in particular, and not just 1023 00:47:20,070 --> 00:47:23,610 S3: in music. Obviously, this applies to all different fields, but 1024 00:47:23,610 --> 00:47:27,410 S3: I think that is a historic thing that goes well. 1025 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,490 S3: Back to like the cultural cringe and how we've consistently 1026 00:47:31,489 --> 00:47:35,030 S3: devalued the role of the arts. And like, I don't know, even, 1027 00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:39,230 S3: you know, Stem is important, but I think Stem, sport, 1028 00:47:39,230 --> 00:47:43,010 S3: all these other things are historically valued over the role 1029 00:47:43,010 --> 00:47:47,540 S3: that storytellers have. Um, and I think that it's because 1030 00:47:47,540 --> 00:47:50,120 S3: it's hard to measure. Right. Like, although sometimes you can 1031 00:47:50,140 --> 00:47:53,290 S3: measure it when you have certain film franchises or, you know, 1032 00:47:53,290 --> 00:47:55,210 S3: we talk about Bluey a bit, but I think because 1033 00:47:55,210 --> 00:47:58,750 S3: it's hard to measure, these new artists can miss out. 1034 00:47:58,750 --> 00:48:01,719 S3: But what they're bringing is not necessarily financial, but it's 1035 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,900 S3: a way of, you know, reflecting our culture back to ourselves, 1036 00:48:04,900 --> 00:48:07,359 S3: which I think people, until it's gone, you don't really 1037 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,550 S3: realize what you're what you're losing. 1038 00:48:09,550 --> 00:48:11,020 S1: Yeah. And I think in that vein, one thing I 1039 00:48:11,020 --> 00:48:14,690 S1: wanted to mention is the closure after 25 years of 1040 00:48:14,690 --> 00:48:17,960 S1: the Sydney independent record label Elefant Traks, who a big 1041 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,319 S1: part of the independent music scene for decades, particularly hip 1042 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:25,040 S1: hop acts like The Herd, Urthboy, Hermitude, L-fresh The Lion, 1043 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:29,030 S1: Horrorshow like these are independent acts nurtured by a music 1044 00:48:29,030 --> 00:48:32,120 S1: label that could make eke out a living, we should 1045 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,690 S1: say never super financially lucrative. And those are artists that 1046 00:48:35,690 --> 00:48:39,790 S1: represented very specific parts of Australia, whether it's like indigenous 1047 00:48:39,790 --> 00:48:42,550 S1: acts like The Last Connection, whether it's DJs from the 1048 00:48:42,550 --> 00:48:44,410 S1: Blue Mountains like Hermitude, whether it's kids from the inner West, 1049 00:48:44,410 --> 00:48:48,760 S1: whether it's L-fresh from Western Sydney, they told stories about 1050 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,210 S1: the places and communities they came from, and they could 1051 00:48:52,210 --> 00:48:56,469 S1: only exist because of a musical infrastructure and a label 1052 00:48:56,469 --> 00:49:01,960 S1: that existed to support them. With that label closing and 1053 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,500 S1: basically no one creating new labels because it doesn't make 1054 00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:07,050 S1: any sense. As we've been talking about, there's literally like 1055 00:49:07,050 --> 00:49:10,560 S1: stories and genres and kinds of music that will just 1056 00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,899 S1: not really hit. And maybe the other thing to say 1057 00:49:12,900 --> 00:49:15,299 S1: is none of this is a knock on artists or 1058 00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:18,120 S1: the people trying to promote them. I'm not mad at 1059 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:19,980 S1: or saying there aren't good Australian artists. I'm going to 1060 00:49:19,980 --> 00:49:22,350 S1: name some good Australian artists I think people should check 1061 00:49:22,350 --> 00:49:25,620 S1: out in a minute. It's more the structure around how 1062 00:49:25,620 --> 00:49:28,830 S1: all this stuff works is making it very hard for 1063 00:49:28,830 --> 00:49:33,090 S1: them to succeed. I do think, though, in some major 1064 00:49:33,090 --> 00:49:35,280 S1: labels this is a really interesting thing. So a few 1065 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,530 S1: people have broken down their numbers for me over the 1066 00:49:37,530 --> 00:49:39,870 S1: past couple of weeks, and they've I've been asking around 1067 00:49:39,870 --> 00:49:42,779 S1: different artists and different industry people. Where do you think 1068 00:49:42,780 --> 00:49:45,629 S1: some of these key issues lie and who's responsible? They 1069 00:49:45,630 --> 00:49:47,970 S1: made the point that in the olden days, like say, ten, 1070 00:49:47,969 --> 00:49:51,650 S1: 15 years ago, about 90% of the revenue from major 1071 00:49:51,650 --> 00:49:54,529 S1: labels came from selling new music because people had to 1072 00:49:54,530 --> 00:49:58,129 S1: buy albums. Right. Once you own the Fleetwood Mac Best 1073 00:49:58,130 --> 00:49:59,839 S1: of album, you don't need to buy it again. You 1074 00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,640 S1: just play it all the time. So for labels to 1075 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,489 S1: make money, they have to find and break and nurture 1076 00:50:04,489 --> 00:50:07,910 S1: new acts to convince you to buy new records. With 1077 00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:11,450 S1: the advent of streaming, the numbers have totally flipped. About 90% 1078 00:50:11,450 --> 00:50:14,420 S1: of the money comes from streaming back catalogue stuff. So 1079 00:50:14,420 --> 00:50:17,180 S1: you do listen to Fleetwood Mac on Spotify rather than 1080 00:50:17,180 --> 00:50:19,459 S1: playing the album now, and every time you do that 1081 00:50:19,460 --> 00:50:22,460 S1: generates money for the label and for the band. So 1082 00:50:22,460 --> 00:50:25,520 S1: major labels don't have the same incentive they used to 1083 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,150 S1: to find and nurture and help break Australian artists. There 1084 00:50:29,150 --> 00:50:31,280 S1: are big labels in this country who have cut back 1085 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,560 S1: their A&R departments, and they're the people who are in 1086 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,190 S1: charge of finding and nurturing acts because it's way less 1087 00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:42,279 S1: risky and more economically safe to spend $1 million saying, 1088 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,190 S1: go and listen to Fleetwood Mac records than it is 1089 00:50:45,190 --> 00:50:47,710 S1: to say, hey, this new artist Thomas Mitchell's got a 1090 00:50:47,710 --> 00:50:49,990 S1: great album, give it a red hot go. And so 1091 00:50:49,989 --> 00:50:52,089 S1: there is that side of it as well, and I 1092 00:50:52,090 --> 00:50:53,350 S1: don't yeah, I don't know what the fix is. I 1093 00:50:53,350 --> 00:50:57,040 S1: don't run these labels, but there's a lot of factors 1094 00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:01,120 S1: that are all aligning to make the Australian music landscape 1095 00:51:01,180 --> 00:51:02,650 S1: feel pretty grim at the. 1096 00:51:02,650 --> 00:51:03,630 S7: Moment Then I. 1097 00:51:03,630 --> 00:51:05,280 S2: Mean, a lot of buzz around that Thomas Mitchell guy, 1098 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,470 S2: by the way, you guys should check him out. I 1099 00:51:07,469 --> 00:51:09,330 S2: think that's what's so interesting though, because like obviously we're 1100 00:51:09,330 --> 00:51:12,330 S2: seeing this like clogging of the charts with old artists like, 1101 00:51:12,330 --> 00:51:14,460 S2: you know, as it was, Harry styles has been on 1102 00:51:14,460 --> 00:51:16,980 S2: there basically since it dropped Ed Sheeran. Like all these 1103 00:51:16,980 --> 00:51:19,469 S2: people that we just like, you know, obviously Taylor and 1104 00:51:19,469 --> 00:51:21,750 S2: I saw that in, in the UK in the Official 1105 00:51:21,750 --> 00:51:24,089 S2: Charts Company, they changed their rules a couple of years 1106 00:51:24,090 --> 00:51:26,399 S2: ago to limit the amount of songs that one artist 1107 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,629 S2: can have on the chart. So yeah, interesting. One artist 1108 00:51:29,630 --> 00:51:31,130 S2: can only have a limit of three songs in the 1109 00:51:31,130 --> 00:51:33,650 S2: UK chart at any given time. So, you know, that 1110 00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:36,980 S2: was like actually created in response to Ed Sheeran's, um, whatever, 1111 00:51:36,980 --> 00:51:39,890 S2: whichever math symbol album he released that was really good. 1112 00:51:40,070 --> 00:51:42,379 S2: But like so so that means that, I guess, could 1113 00:51:42,380 --> 00:51:44,810 S2: that be an incentive to a label? Because, you know, 1114 00:51:44,810 --> 00:51:47,330 S2: obviously charting still means a lot. It makes you eligible 1115 00:51:47,330 --> 00:51:49,669 S2: for a bunch of awards and labels, still want the 1116 00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:52,569 S2: prestige and recognition that comes with charting. So if we 1117 00:51:52,570 --> 00:51:55,299 S2: do institute rules like that here, so you can only have, 1118 00:51:55,300 --> 00:51:57,820 S2: you know, you know, three songs from an artist or 1119 00:51:57,820 --> 00:51:59,950 S2: you could have like there's been suggestions of doing like 1120 00:51:59,950 --> 00:52:02,200 S2: Time limits. So a song can only chart for this 1121 00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,150 S2: long or it has to be within this amount of 1122 00:52:04,150 --> 00:52:06,190 S2: time of release. And then I guess you create a 1123 00:52:06,190 --> 00:52:09,100 S2: bit more of a framework around what is allowed to chart. 1124 00:52:09,100 --> 00:52:11,470 S2: So then because obviously, as you said, the nature of 1125 00:52:11,469 --> 00:52:12,850 S2: streaming is that people just go and listen to whatever 1126 00:52:12,850 --> 00:52:15,130 S2: they want to listen to, and it's often just their 1127 00:52:15,140 --> 00:52:17,840 S2: favourite songs from 15 years ago. And that way you 1128 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,750 S2: can kind of like maybe like massage the charts back 1129 00:52:20,750 --> 00:52:23,240 S2: into a more contemporary reflection of like what is going 1130 00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,250 S2: on and what is actually being listened to as opposed 1131 00:52:25,250 --> 00:52:26,390 S2: to people's favorite shit. 1132 00:52:26,390 --> 00:52:28,580 S3: But I don't know if I do think that that like, 1133 00:52:28,580 --> 00:52:30,830 S3: I think it's interesting to talk about the charts. Um, 1134 00:52:30,830 --> 00:52:34,279 S3: and I think the Arias have changed their charts and 1135 00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:37,280 S3: how they collect their data over the years. Um, but 1136 00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:38,570 S3: I do think that would be a bit that's a 1137 00:52:38,570 --> 00:52:40,390 S3: bit of a distraction from the issue. Like, I don't 1138 00:52:40,390 --> 00:52:42,910 S3: know if you want to massage the data to necessarily 1139 00:52:42,910 --> 00:52:46,810 S3: tell a kind of story to, to Australian artists like 1140 00:52:46,810 --> 00:52:48,700 S3: you may as well just address the issue of why 1141 00:52:48,700 --> 00:52:52,390 S3: Australian artists are struggling so much rather than be like, well, 1142 00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:54,520 S3: here's the data all polished up. I mean, we do 1143 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,920 S3: it for your story. Sometimes we we twist the data 1144 00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,800 S3: to look good for you and it doesn't address the issue. Right. Like, 1145 00:53:00,489 --> 00:53:02,440 S3: you know what I mean? Like it's a distraction in 1146 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:02,620 S3: a way. 1147 00:53:02,770 --> 00:53:04,830 S2: But I think you could address all problems at the 1148 00:53:04,830 --> 00:53:06,540 S2: same time. Do you know what I mean? Like, rather than. Yeah, 1149 00:53:06,540 --> 00:53:08,370 S2: just like papering over the cracks of the Da to 1150 00:53:08,370 --> 00:53:10,980 S2: make it paint a pretty picture that could be part 1151 00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:12,270 S2: of a larger solution. 1152 00:53:12,270 --> 00:53:14,730 S1: Yeah. Like what merit is there in a chart that 1153 00:53:14,730 --> 00:53:17,040 S1: tells you that AC, DC have four songs in the 1154 00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,439 S1: top 20 right now? That to me is an issue. 1155 00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,020 S1: It's like maybe I think all the ideas you suggested, Thomas, 1156 00:53:22,020 --> 00:53:23,880 S1: make sense. Maybe there's another one there, which is like, 1157 00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,069 S1: just have a chart that is for like music that's 1158 00:53:26,070 --> 00:53:28,380 S1: been released in the past 12 months. So we know 1159 00:53:28,380 --> 00:53:32,400 S1: what Australian acts that are making new music, how are 1160 00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,160 S1: they doing? What are people listening to? What is hitting 1161 00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:37,230 S1: doesn't solve all the problems. I completely agree with you, Mel, 1162 00:53:37,230 --> 00:53:40,200 S1: but if like a young Australian act, someone is going 1163 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,020 S1: to mention Nick Ward has a really successful song because 1164 00:53:43,020 --> 00:53:45,810 S1: he's been playlisted by triple J, he's been announced as 1165 00:53:45,810 --> 00:53:48,840 S1: Troye Sivan's support act for the tour later this year. 1166 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,089 S1: There's maybe a little bit of buzz around him if 1167 00:53:51,090 --> 00:53:54,340 S1: he can get the chance to track in a chart 1168 00:53:54,340 --> 00:53:57,879 S1: that isn't crowded out by AC, DC and a 30 1169 00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,490 S1: year old gorgeous song or 20 year old gorgeous song, like, 1170 00:54:00,489 --> 00:54:02,680 S1: maybe that could put him on the radar a little 1171 00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,020 S1: bit so these things could potentially work in tandem. 1172 00:54:05,020 --> 00:54:06,550 S2: But I feel like the other thing we probably need 1173 00:54:06,550 --> 00:54:08,770 S2: to mention is, well, two things. Obviously, I think in 1174 00:54:08,770 --> 00:54:10,870 S2: response to all of this, like last year, Tony Burke 1175 00:54:10,870 --> 00:54:13,450 S2: announced the creation of Music Australia, which is basically a 1176 00:54:13,450 --> 00:54:15,900 S2: body that is dedicated to, I think one of their 1177 00:54:15,900 --> 00:54:19,529 S2: biggest priorities is addressing discoverability, because that's what really is 1178 00:54:19,530 --> 00:54:21,780 S2: so hard right now. But I suppose we probably have 1179 00:54:21,780 --> 00:54:24,780 S2: to discuss like TikTok, because that is where, you know, 1180 00:54:24,780 --> 00:54:28,170 S2: the classic triple J demo exists now is on TikTok. 1181 00:54:28,170 --> 00:54:30,570 S2: And obviously there's been so many different issues in terms 1182 00:54:30,570 --> 00:54:33,180 S2: of like licensing of songs and ways to get discovered 1183 00:54:33,180 --> 00:54:36,480 S2: and the fact that TikTok is a platform that basically 1184 00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,210 S2: is exists and will only, you know, spotlight artists if 1185 00:54:40,210 --> 00:54:43,180 S2: their music goes viral. But like basically, I guess if 1186 00:54:43,180 --> 00:54:46,150 S2: I was an Australian musician, like wanting to break out, 1187 00:54:46,150 --> 00:54:48,330 S2: I'd be like, well, look, all of these 16 to 1188 00:54:48,330 --> 00:54:51,339 S2: 30 year olds really are like existing on TikTok or 1189 00:54:51,340 --> 00:54:54,279 S2: listening to stuff or discovering stuff on TikTok, like, how 1190 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,830 S2: do I infiltrate this platform that is kind of like 1191 00:54:56,830 --> 00:54:59,529 S2: engineered to be geared against me anyway, but like what? 1192 00:54:59,530 --> 00:55:01,690 S2: What happens there like that? That is a big problem 1193 00:55:01,690 --> 00:55:02,620 S2: for Australian artists. 1194 00:55:02,620 --> 00:55:04,540 S3: Well, I think it's a problem if they feel like 1195 00:55:04,540 --> 00:55:06,700 S3: they have to infiltrate that, because TikTok obviously likes a 1196 00:55:06,700 --> 00:55:09,520 S3: very certain kind of music. I mean, Gracie Abrams is 1197 00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,420 S3: maybe the epitome of that likes a very certain kind 1198 00:55:13,420 --> 00:55:15,790 S3: of song. Um, and that's dominating. So I don't think 1199 00:55:15,790 --> 00:55:19,239 S3: you want to get the Australian artists to create the 1200 00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,190 S3: song that TikTok is loving, because then you will just 1201 00:55:21,190 --> 00:55:23,680 S3: have the same song created over and over again. I 1202 00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,020 S3: actually think the bigger issue really is like, artists don't 1203 00:55:26,020 --> 00:55:28,940 S3: make a lot of money out of record sales or streams, 1204 00:55:28,940 --> 00:55:32,150 S3: like they make their money out of touring. And that, 1205 00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:34,640 S3: I think, is the real crux of the issue in 1206 00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,670 S3: Australia is that they don't have anywhere to play anymore. 1207 00:55:37,700 --> 00:55:40,520 S1: Totally, totally and harder for them to tour internationally with, 1208 00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,120 S1: you know, exchange rates, cost of living, visa fees increasing 1209 00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,520 S1: for artists in the States. It's a story that Meg, 1210 00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:48,860 S1: our colleague, covered a couple of weeks ago, just on 1211 00:55:48,860 --> 00:55:53,030 S1: the streaming side of things. I mean, there this is 1212 00:55:53,030 --> 00:55:55,130 S1: where there have been conversations for the government to step 1213 00:55:55,130 --> 00:55:57,410 S1: in and actually and it's a boring word to use, 1214 00:55:57,410 --> 00:55:59,810 S1: but like regulate, like if they're going to talk about 1215 00:55:59,810 --> 00:56:03,680 S1: making sure that Netflix prioritizes Australian content, why can't there 1216 00:56:03,710 --> 00:56:07,130 S1: be discussion around, you know, when Spotify makes its playlist? 1217 00:56:07,130 --> 00:56:09,890 S1: So when Spotify plays radio, you know, it's like, you 1218 00:56:09,890 --> 00:56:12,350 S1: like this artist, listen to that artist. Every third song 1219 00:56:12,350 --> 00:56:14,600 S1: has to be an Australian song. Like, why not just 1220 00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,270 S1: say you operate in our country, you make money from Australians, 1221 00:56:18,270 --> 00:56:20,279 S1: and part of the quid pro quo of that is 1222 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,859 S1: you have to ensure that Australian acts can't just be 1223 00:56:22,860 --> 00:56:26,219 S1: drowned out by Sabrina Carpenter again and again, or Gracie 1224 00:56:26,219 --> 00:56:29,100 S1: Abrams on TikTok. Like, I think that is something that 1225 00:56:29,100 --> 00:56:31,260 S1: could be done. I hope Music Australia is doing it. 1226 00:56:31,260 --> 00:56:34,020 S1: I mean, they're smart people probably think about this stuff 1227 00:56:34,020 --> 00:56:36,330 S1: more than us. I'm kind of surprised that no one 1228 00:56:36,330 --> 00:56:38,610 S1: in the government just stood up and said, hey, yeah, 1229 00:56:38,610 --> 00:56:41,560 S1: there's a real issue here with music in Australia. Every 1230 00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:43,570 S1: artist is talking about it. Every label is talking about it, 1231 00:56:43,570 --> 00:56:45,489 S1: the media is talking about it. We're going to look 1232 00:56:45,489 --> 00:56:48,640 S1: at what we can do. It sort of just seems like, oh, well, 1233 00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:50,259 S1: maybe get to it once we figure out what to 1234 00:56:50,260 --> 00:56:52,209 S1: do with Netflix, which has been going on for years 1235 00:56:52,210 --> 00:56:54,670 S1: and years. So I feel a little bit pessimistic. But 1236 00:56:54,670 --> 00:56:58,870 S1: hopefully this conversation encourages people to think about it. Maybe 1237 00:56:58,870 --> 00:57:01,420 S1: there are some influential people listening to this and starting 1238 00:57:01,420 --> 00:57:05,730 S1: those convos. If music companies in Australia, if artists started 1239 00:57:05,730 --> 00:57:10,350 S1: demanding the government do something to enforce Australian music, be 1240 00:57:10,350 --> 00:57:12,150 S1: played on things like TikTok and Spotify, I think that 1241 00:57:12,150 --> 00:57:14,580 S1: could go a long way. Along with the touring stuff 1242 00:57:14,580 --> 00:57:15,480 S1: that you mentioned, Mel. 1243 00:57:15,510 --> 00:57:18,330 S3: I'm kind of skeptical that we'll see the government try 1244 00:57:18,330 --> 00:57:21,990 S3: to enforce quotas on TikTok. Um, I agree, I'm just 1245 00:57:21,990 --> 00:57:22,590 S3: chucking out some. 1246 00:57:22,590 --> 00:57:23,490 S7: Ideas like be positive. 1247 00:57:23,490 --> 00:57:26,220 S3: We've seen how they've gone with meta. Um, I actually 1248 00:57:26,220 --> 00:57:29,270 S3: think the more maybe effective model to steal from is 1249 00:57:29,270 --> 00:57:31,580 S3: what they've done with the film industry, which are like 1250 00:57:31,580 --> 00:57:34,700 S3: kind of tax offsets and rebates. I wonder if that's 1251 00:57:34,700 --> 00:57:38,990 S3: more of a way to incentivize these companies to, to 1252 00:57:38,990 --> 00:57:41,390 S3: promote Australian musicians, because I. 1253 00:57:41,390 --> 00:57:42,230 S7: Just don't. 1254 00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:43,580 S3: Want to sound like the AFR, but I don't know 1255 00:57:43,580 --> 00:57:47,300 S3: if the regulation of the big companies is going to 1256 00:57:47,300 --> 00:57:50,150 S3: work like Sony. I love Sony, but like, they're not, 1257 00:57:50,150 --> 00:57:52,420 S3: you know, they they have to make a profit like 1258 00:57:52,420 --> 00:57:52,780 S3: they're not. 1259 00:57:52,780 --> 00:57:53,380 S7: Your lunch coming up. 1260 00:57:53,470 --> 00:57:56,770 S3: I don't have faith in their kind of their altruism. 1261 00:57:56,890 --> 00:57:59,830 S1: I feel like regardless of which path anyone takes, we 1262 00:57:59,830 --> 00:58:03,010 S1: have just come up with like seven great ideas to help, 1263 00:58:03,010 --> 00:58:05,410 S1: and I hope someone listening to this takes them on. 1264 00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,570 S1: I said that I wanted to mention a couple of 1265 00:58:07,570 --> 00:58:10,120 S1: recent Australian songs, because I don't want to just talk 1266 00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,610 S1: about the issues here and then my My Impress Your 1267 00:58:12,610 --> 00:58:14,950 S1: Friends is not an Australian artist, so I thought I 1268 00:58:14,950 --> 00:58:17,250 S1: should mention Australian acts before people make fun of me. 1269 00:58:17,250 --> 00:58:19,890 S1: I mentioned Nick Ward before up and coming pop guy 1270 00:58:19,890 --> 00:58:22,800 S1: on the Troy Tour. His most recent single, Shooting Star 1271 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,020 S1: is really, really fun. If you want a pop kind 1272 00:58:25,020 --> 00:58:27,450 S1: of a vibe. Amyl and the sniffers, they don't need 1273 00:58:27,450 --> 00:58:30,390 S1: my help. They're a big and successful band. I've always 1274 00:58:30,390 --> 00:58:33,150 S1: loved them. Their most recent single, You Should Not Be 1275 00:58:33,150 --> 00:58:35,790 S1: Doing That is really good. Like, I think this is 1276 00:58:35,790 --> 00:58:39,540 S1: one of the best Australian songs in the last little while. 1277 00:58:39,540 --> 00:58:42,610 S1: It's really, really fun and it's so exciting to see 1278 00:58:42,610 --> 00:58:46,480 S1: them kill it overseas. And the final one northeast Party House, 1279 00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,750 S1: more electro sort of vibe. Their latest album is awesome, 1280 00:58:49,750 --> 00:58:52,630 S1: but the lead single off it, enhancer, is also really fun. 1281 00:58:52,630 --> 00:58:56,740 S1: So there's a bit of a rock, pop and dance recommendations. 1282 00:58:56,740 --> 00:58:58,270 S1: So there you go. I'm doing my bit to support 1283 00:58:58,270 --> 00:59:08,490 S1: Australian music. Let's move on to our final and most 1284 00:59:08,490 --> 00:59:12,330 S1: beloved segment, Impress Your Friends, where we share something that 1285 00:59:12,330 --> 00:59:18,180 S1: we watched, listened to, read, or consumed last week in culture. Uh, Mel? 1286 00:59:18,180 --> 00:59:18,780 S1: I'm up. 1287 00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:24,780 S3: Well, learning new Australian writers. My recommendation this week is, um, kin. 1288 00:59:24,780 --> 00:59:29,780 S3: Mine's new memoir, Fragile Creatures. It's a really the word 1289 00:59:29,780 --> 00:59:31,490 S3: that comes to mind is graceful, like it's a very 1290 00:59:31,490 --> 00:59:35,990 S3: graceful book. It's about his experience growing up in Perth. 1291 00:59:35,990 --> 00:59:39,980 S3: His mum was a migrant from England, his dad was 1292 00:59:39,980 --> 00:59:42,800 S3: a Burmese refugee. And it starts, it looks at the 1293 00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,860 S3: racism he endured in Perth growing up from that background, 1294 00:59:45,860 --> 00:59:49,400 S3: and it's really quite horrific and at times hard to watch. 1295 00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:53,470 S3: But then it moves into this experience he has going overseas, 1296 00:59:53,470 --> 00:59:58,180 S3: and his former partner accuses him of stalking her. So 1297 00:59:58,180 --> 01:00:00,010 S3: he has to face a court case overseas. And while 1298 01:00:00,010 --> 01:00:03,580 S3: that's going on, his sister has been facing this illness, 1299 01:00:03,580 --> 01:00:07,450 S3: which leaves her in bed for months and months and months, 1300 01:00:07,450 --> 01:00:10,030 S3: and she's getting worse. And it's an illness that, you know, 1301 01:00:10,030 --> 01:00:14,110 S3: the diagnosis is contentious, so there's all these different elements 1302 01:00:14,110 --> 01:00:16,600 S3: of it. But he brings it together so nicely and 1303 01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:19,620 S3: it's really honest and insightful, and it's a look at 1304 01:00:19,620 --> 01:00:23,610 S3: masculinity and racism and also the idea about how the 1305 01:00:23,610 --> 01:00:27,390 S3: body and mind works together. It's just a very, uh, 1306 01:00:27,390 --> 01:00:29,790 S3: it's a great read. I would recommend it. And I'm 1307 01:00:29,790 --> 01:00:33,330 S3: it's a quiet book. It's from a smaller publisher, Black Inc.. Uh, 1308 01:00:33,330 --> 01:00:36,240 S3: Ken is a writer, but I don't think has is, 1309 01:00:36,270 --> 01:00:38,370 S3: you know, particularly well known. So I hope it does 1310 01:00:38,370 --> 01:00:40,320 S3: kind of make a mark because it does deserve to 1311 01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:40,780 S3: be read. 1312 01:00:40,810 --> 01:00:43,240 S1: Good on you supporting Australian artists, Mel. 1313 01:00:43,330 --> 01:00:44,020 S7: Great try. 1314 01:00:44,020 --> 01:00:45,430 S1: Great stuff. Um. 1315 01:00:45,430 --> 01:00:48,850 S2: Thomas Vine is a TV show on a little known streamer, 1316 01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:53,050 S2: Aussie streamer named Apple. This. This is very good, though. Um, 1317 01:00:53,050 --> 01:00:54,730 S2: you know, we've been in a bit of a funny 1318 01:00:54,730 --> 01:00:57,100 S2: time for, for new TV shows, and obviously the bear 1319 01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:00,040 S2: is pointing us all, but This is Sunny, starring Rashida Jones, 1320 01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,440 S2: who I think we all know and love. Um, I 1321 01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,040 S2: think she's great. Uh, and so basically, this is adapted 1322 01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:08,220 S2: from Colin O'Sullivan's novel. Uh, but basically she plays an 1323 01:01:08,220 --> 01:01:10,919 S2: American woman living in Japan with her Japanese husband. And 1324 01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:14,010 S2: one day, her husband and son disappear in a plane crash. Uh, 1325 01:01:14,010 --> 01:01:17,220 S2: it all feels very mysterious. A bit losti almost. Um, 1326 01:01:17,220 --> 01:01:20,580 S2: but as far as we know, her husband has passed away. Uh, she, 1327 01:01:20,580 --> 01:01:24,570 S2: you know, in this kind of strange, you know, post death. 1328 01:01:24,570 --> 01:01:25,050 S7: Grief. 1329 01:01:25,050 --> 01:01:27,030 S2: That has gripped her, she then, like, gets a knock 1330 01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:29,810 S2: at the door one day and she meets Sonny, a 1331 01:01:29,810 --> 01:01:32,540 S2: robot that her husband, who was far as she knew, 1332 01:01:32,540 --> 01:01:35,720 S2: worked for a refrigeration company has created and tailored to 1333 01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:39,350 S2: her exact sensibilities. He has a full history of her life, 1334 01:01:39,350 --> 01:01:41,660 S2: and he basically is the ultimate companion. And at first, 1335 01:01:41,660 --> 01:01:43,910 S2: she doesn't really know what to make of it. And 1336 01:01:43,910 --> 01:01:47,060 S2: then as the show kind of goes along, it becomes, 1337 01:01:47,060 --> 01:01:50,090 S2: you know, this comfort, but it also becomes this increasingly 1338 01:01:50,090 --> 01:01:53,020 S2: kind of like dark force in her life. And the 1339 01:01:53,020 --> 01:01:54,940 S2: show is really funny. Rashida Jones is so good at 1340 01:01:54,940 --> 01:01:57,970 S2: toeing the line between like, drama and then like comedy, 1341 01:01:57,970 --> 01:02:00,910 S2: and also just there's this constant sense of foreboding. The 1342 01:02:00,910 --> 01:02:03,430 S2: show does become like a kind of comment on, you know, 1343 01:02:03,430 --> 01:02:05,560 S2: where the future is headed. And I and all of 1344 01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:07,750 S2: those things we love to delve into. But yeah, if 1345 01:02:07,750 --> 01:02:09,280 S2: you're if you're looking for a kind of an off 1346 01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:10,960 S2: beat show that is a bit different to everything else 1347 01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,480 S2: out there right now, um, Sunny on Apple is definitely 1348 01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:14,169 S2: worth a watch. 1349 01:02:14,290 --> 01:02:14,740 S7: Uh, Apple. 1350 01:02:14,740 --> 01:02:16,270 S1: TV hitting it out of the park lately. 1351 01:02:16,270 --> 01:02:17,670 S7: I think I'd love a robot friend. 1352 01:02:18,180 --> 01:02:19,230 S2: Yeah, you probably would. 1353 01:02:19,230 --> 01:02:19,650 S7: Yeah. 1354 01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:22,320 S1: Avoid the obvious Thomas joke. 1355 01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:23,520 S3: Yeah. Set you up. 1356 01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:23,850 S7: There. 1357 01:02:24,060 --> 01:02:29,670 S1: Uh, my my recommendation is my guy, Zack Bryant. Back. 1358 01:02:29,670 --> 01:02:34,110 S1: Surprise album out of nowhere. The great American bar scene. 1359 01:02:34,110 --> 01:02:36,870 S1: I will say I really liked this album. So, Zack Bryant, 1360 01:02:36,870 --> 01:02:39,930 S1: for people who are not familiar with my adoration of 1361 01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:44,830 S1: country artist in America, really, really good. Had that really 1362 01:02:44,830 --> 01:02:46,930 S1: big hit. I remember everything with Kacey Musgraves, I think, 1363 01:02:46,930 --> 01:02:49,030 S1: towards the end of last year, but has released a 1364 01:02:49,030 --> 01:02:52,540 S1: couple of awesome albums. His self-titled is probably my favorite. Uh, 1365 01:02:52,540 --> 01:02:54,700 S1: I will say about this album, it's not like a 1366 01:02:54,700 --> 01:02:58,480 S1: radical reinvention of Zach. It's very much the same stuff 1367 01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:00,880 S1: that we've had from him in a while, but it's 1368 01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,580 S1: pretty good. There's a Bruce Springsteen collaboration on there, which 1369 01:03:03,580 --> 01:03:06,540 S1: is really, really nice. Um, my two favorite tracks, if 1370 01:03:06,540 --> 01:03:09,930 S1: you're a bit daunted by the size and the length 1371 01:03:09,930 --> 01:03:11,580 S1: of the album, and you want to just sort of 1372 01:03:11,580 --> 01:03:14,670 S1: what are the good bits? Uh, 28 and Oak Island. 1373 01:03:14,700 --> 01:03:18,960 S1: Two real standout fun, kind of more poppy, accessible bits, 1374 01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,620 S1: but just really nice to have another full length Zach 1375 01:03:22,620 --> 01:03:24,750 S1: Bryant album. Yes, it's my recommendation. 1376 01:03:24,750 --> 01:03:27,060 S2: I just wanted to offer some feedback on your recommendation. 1377 01:03:27,210 --> 01:03:27,930 S1: Feel free. 1378 01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:31,760 S2: Firstly, it fucking features John Mayer and you didn't. 1379 01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:33,620 S7: Sorry, you didn't even mention it. 1380 01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:36,740 S1: Which is I'm trying to pretend that one doesn't exist. 1381 01:03:36,830 --> 01:03:38,930 S2: I actually quite like that song. The album is great. 1382 01:03:38,930 --> 01:03:40,400 S2: I listened to it on the way to work this morning. 1383 01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,290 S2: I've been so into it when when he just, like, 1384 01:03:42,410 --> 01:03:45,050 S2: comes out with Wet Hot American. 1385 01:03:45,740 --> 01:03:46,490 S7: Best kind of. 1386 01:03:46,490 --> 01:03:48,020 S2: Best lyrics since I was. 1387 01:03:48,020 --> 01:03:48,620 S7: I've never more. 1388 01:03:48,620 --> 01:03:51,800 S1: Wanted to just be a guy who drives a truck. 1389 01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,310 S1: And the main thing I'm worried about is like, what 1390 01:03:54,310 --> 01:03:57,070 S1: I'm bringing to the cookout on Friday night. And that 1391 01:03:57,070 --> 01:04:00,310 S1: is the nostalgia that he is like conjuring up. And 1392 01:04:00,310 --> 01:04:01,780 S1: I'm like, man, yeah, the world used to be a 1393 01:04:01,780 --> 01:04:04,300 S1: more simple place. You don't have to worry about politics 1394 01:04:04,300 --> 01:04:06,670 S1: or the state of the world, just your family. You know, 1395 01:04:06,670 --> 01:04:09,460 S1: your job, your gun, your truck. I mean, I'm. 1396 01:04:09,460 --> 01:04:11,440 S7: Making it sound like a conservative album. It's not. 1397 01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:15,160 S3: You're fetishizing kind of working class culture here. 1398 01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:16,300 S1: I, I. 1399 01:04:16,510 --> 01:04:16,660 S7: I. 1400 01:04:16,660 --> 01:04:19,530 S1: Mean, that's country music, right? Like, that's that's the vibes. 1401 01:04:19,530 --> 01:04:22,500 S1: It's simple and straightforward and yeah, he's you know, he's 1402 01:04:22,500 --> 01:04:25,080 S1: an interesting songwriter as well. I don't mean to write 1403 01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:27,720 S1: him off as just like a country hick or whatever, but, um, 1404 01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,840 S1: there's something about the detachment from a lot of the 1405 01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:32,670 S1: chaos and drama in the world that we kind of 1406 01:04:32,670 --> 01:04:34,320 S1: cover and talk about all the time that I find 1407 01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:36,150 S1: really appealing about the album. So it's good. It's a 1408 01:04:36,150 --> 01:04:36,570 S1: great listen. 1409 01:04:36,570 --> 01:04:38,250 S3: I'm glad it came out in time for your birthday, too. 1410 01:04:38,250 --> 01:04:41,460 S1: Thanks, Mel. Thank you. Um, that's it from us guys. 1411 01:04:41,470 --> 01:04:44,380 S1: Great conversations. Always take care. See you next week. 1412 01:04:44,590 --> 01:04:45,460 S7: Perfect. We've got to go. 1413 01:04:45,460 --> 01:04:46,690 S3: Out with Riptide shortly. 1414 01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:48,730 S7: I was scared of dentists, and. 1415 01:04:50,530 --> 01:04:55,870 S10: I was scared of dentists and the dark. I was 1416 01:04:55,870 --> 01:04:59,920 S10: scared of pretty girls and starting conversations. 1417 01:04:59,920 --> 01:05:03,160 UU: All my friends are turning green. 1418 01:05:08,130 --> 01:05:10,950 S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong. 1419 01:05:10,980 --> 01:05:13,770 S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop, 1420 01:05:13,770 --> 01:05:16,200 S1: make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app. 1421 01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,840 S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share it with 1422 01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,990 S1: a friend! I'm Usman Farooqui. See you next week!