Speaker 1: Coming up on sixty minutes crunch time in the medal
Speaker 1: In McCann investigation. That is the golden nugget that they're
Speaker 1: looking for.
Speaker 2: There's police zero in.
Speaker 3: Scary, just scary. It's a danger for the public.
Speaker 4: The brave woman who could shed new light. He recorded everything,
Speaker 4: this eighteen year mystery, the crime against me. I've been investigated.
Speaker 4: The Madeline would still be a homework her parents.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the sixty Minutes podcast Extra Minutes Today we'll
Speaker 3: be talking about our story on the Medaline McCann case,
Speaker 3: the most high profile missing childcase in history. Joining me
Speaker 3: now is my colleague Nikki Nikola.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3: It is a story that's been ongoing with no ending.
Speaker 2: Still no no ending, eighteen years on and no ending.
Speaker 2: See the reason why we're doing this story, you know,
Speaker 2: when we're doing it now, is because there's been a
Speaker 2: renewed search in Portugal and so obviously that's brought it
Speaker 2: back into the headlines in the last but yes, at
Speaker 2: this stage, still no answers as to where Madeline McCann
Speaker 2: is riding.
Speaker 3: The highs and lows of you know, the poor families
Speaker 3: and the world that's interested and very sympathetic about this case.
Speaker 3: We've seen searches before, they've led nowhere. What's different about
Speaker 3: this one, in your opinion, is certainly about the timing
Speaker 3: of this one.
Speaker 2: Well, the timing, I think is the important thing in
Speaker 2: this one is because a prime suspect, Christian Bruckner, is
Speaker 2: set to be released in September of this year. It's
Speaker 2: a race against the clock to try and keep him
Speaker 2: behind bars because even though he is the prime suspect,
Speaker 2: they have no forensic evidence to keep him locked up
Speaker 2: for Madeline McCann's case. So they are trying or that
Speaker 2: they can to keep him behind bars. And obviously this
Speaker 2: search is hoping to maybe come up with something. It's
Speaker 2: wrapped up. We still have no answers. I mean, they
Speaker 2: have said that they have taken some things away. What
Speaker 2: that is, we don't really know. It's very you know.
Speaker 2: I've been talking to a few of reporters who are
Speaker 2: actually on the ground, and a lot of them don't
Speaker 2: and actually know themselves what's happening. Everything is quite quiet,
Speaker 2: and I think a lot of people as well, reporters
Speaker 2: who have been involved in this case for a long time,
Speaker 2: have been taken back and shocked by the fact that
Speaker 2: this search has just kind of happened out of nowhere.
Speaker 2: A lot of people were surprised by the fact that,
Speaker 2: you know, all of a sudden they're searching again, and
Speaker 2: it comes at a big, big cost.
Speaker 3: Yeah, three hundred thousand pounds yes, correct, two three days
Speaker 3: of searching.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The reporting around it was that it came after a
Speaker 3: tip off, But there is a desperation to it as well,
Speaker 3: and we're still trying to get to the bottom of that,
Speaker 3: aren't we. Yeah, did somebody inform on something?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 3: Because as you say, Chris John Bruckner is likely to
Speaker 3: walk free. Is eligible from September one last throw of
Speaker 3: the dice?
Speaker 2: Totally?
Speaker 3: Maybe all of it.
Speaker 2: I think they are racing to try and find some
Speaker 2: kind of forensic evidence. They have the Sunday, this big
Speaker 2: investigation where they have lots of USB sticks with photographs
Speaker 2: and things like that on it, But we don't actually
Speaker 2: have any evidence that links to Mattie mccahn. So obviously
Speaker 2: they're trying to find something.
Speaker 3: No physical or forensic in the form of DNA or fingerprints.
Speaker 3: It is the most fascinating scenario. You have the chief
Speaker 3: prosecutor saying we have evidence that Madeline McCann is dead
Speaker 3: and we have evidence that Christian Bruckner murdered her.
Speaker 1: We have evidence, and we come to the conclusion that
Speaker 1: Melanie mckenn is dead and Christian b murdereder.
Speaker 3: He has said that to the world, and yet they
Speaker 3: can't charge him. To think that this man who they
Speaker 3: believe has done this, it's a very brave thing to
Speaker 3: accuse somebody of murder, that he could walk free. And
Speaker 3: we know he is a bad man. I mean, he
Speaker 3: has a record as long as anyone's arm of hurting children,
Speaker 3: hurting women, terrible chats with other pedophiles. It is a
Speaker 3: scary prospect.
Speaker 2: We interview Hazel be and she is an alleged rape
Speaker 2: victim of Christian Bruckner. It's a terrifying story. Her story
Speaker 2: is terrifying and she is obviously, you know, fronted court.
Speaker 2: She has forwarded her anonymity to talk about her case
Speaker 2: and sadly was acquitted in October last year.
Speaker 3: Hazel is somebody that I've wanted to talk to for
Speaker 3: a long time. She's an Irish woman who when she
Speaker 3: was twenty so twenty one years ago in two thousand
Speaker 3: and four, so three years before Madeline McCann went missing.
Speaker 3: She was on a holiday working holiday in Portugal, not
Speaker 3: far from where Maddie and her family would end up
Speaker 3: twenty having the time of her life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, living in an.
Speaker 3: Apartment on her own. Comes home for the first time
Speaker 3: on her own. She's normally with a group of friends
Speaker 3: and the boyfriend at that time, falls asleep on the bed,
Speaker 3: fully dressed, wakes up to her name being called by
Speaker 3: a stranger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she doesn't know how he knew her name. Frightening, terrifying.
Speaker 2: He was dressed all in black, when he had a
Speaker 2: mask in which he could see his eyes, was holding
Speaker 2: a knife.
Speaker 3: How many times did he rape you?
Speaker 2: Three?
Speaker 4: Three times? Yeah, twice in my bedroom and once on
Speaker 4: the breakfast bar.
Speaker 3: Did you think you'd survive?
Speaker 4: Honestly? Now that's the truth. A man dressed in black
Speaker 4: with a knife, and he's carrying out these horrendous acts
Speaker 4: on you, and he clearly hates you. He clearly doesn't
Speaker 4: like you. He wants to hoart you. I don't think
Speaker 4: it's it will be wrong with me to say that
Speaker 4: I felt like I was gonna die.
Speaker 3: Terrifying, Yeah, absolutely, Like worse nightmare, worst worst nightmare, And
Speaker 3: what happened for the next couple of hours after that
Speaker 3: is very distressing. The fact that she's a functioning, fighting,
Speaker 3: wonderful woman is extraordinary given what she went through. Because
Speaker 3: not only did she encounter Christian Ruckner is her allegation. Yes,
Speaker 3: this man who she identified because of his piercing blue eyes.
Speaker 3: You know, back then she told Portuguese police he was
Speaker 3: German English speaking with a German accent, you have slim build,
Speaker 3: but he had these piercing blue eyes. And that's all
Speaker 3: she could see of him. But as much as she'd
Speaker 3: like to forget those eyes, she can't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to this day, she talks about it in the interview.
Speaker 2: Doesn't she that she can still, you know, picture those
Speaker 2: really piercing blue eyes.
Speaker 3: Look.
Speaker 4: I completely understand why maybe people in the public might say,
Speaker 4: how can you recognize someone by their eyes? I get it, Like,
Speaker 4: I completely understand.
Speaker 3: But when all.
Speaker 4: You can see of this person's their eyes, you don't
Speaker 4: have a choice fether or not you remember them. They're
Speaker 4: just there.
Speaker 3: But not only does she have this awful, unimaginable experience
Speaker 3: with this man who she identified as Christian Brookner, but
Speaker 3: then she's treated a double blow, really by the Portuguese police,
Speaker 3: and they didn't believe her. They didn't investigate. According to her,
Speaker 3: the only investigation was to follow her around to see
Speaker 3: if she'd invited.
Speaker 2: This sexual Yeah.
Speaker 3: I just don't know. How resilient do you have to be?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she said. At the time, obviously, you know,
Speaker 2: she went to police and like you said, they didn't
Speaker 2: believe her. She went to hospital, you know, had chexts
Speaker 2: as you do, and they just kind of wheeled her
Speaker 2: around and left her there. And you know, this is
Speaker 2: a twenty year old who is on a working holiday,
Speaker 2: has no close family there and she's just left. I
Speaker 2: couldn't even imagine what she would have gone through. And
Speaker 2: you know, even to this day, I think, you know,
Speaker 2: anyone who's been through something like that, it has really
Speaker 2: affected her life, but also her family's life, friends, close
Speaker 2: friends of hers, you know, her mum and dad, her
Speaker 2: brothers and sisters. And back to the image. In twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: when it was released a picture of Christian Brukner, she
Speaker 2: actually physically had a reaction to it. You know, she
Speaker 2: had to go into the bathroom and was sick because
Speaker 2: she saw this picture and she knew from looking at
Speaker 2: that that that was her alleged attacker.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she'd not made any allegations against anyone. So
Speaker 3: from two thousand and four to twenty and twenty, she
Speaker 3: didn't know who her attacker was. She didn't make any allegations.
Speaker 3: She thought that that person would never face justice. She
Speaker 3: is adamant that he's the man who attacked her. I
Speaker 3: think what's interesting about her case though, too, is that
Speaker 3: she gives an insight into how the Portuguese police dealt
Speaker 3: with her and that investigation, and that is relevant and
Speaker 3: important in this because it gives us some insight into
Speaker 3: how the McCann family was treated. Yep, they were treated
Speaker 3: as suspects in the disappearance of Maddie. And while that's
Speaker 3: a natural first step, she looking at people closest to
Speaker 3: the child because that's historically, yeah, where you will find
Speaker 3: your offenders, that it would appear. And so the accusation
Speaker 3: has been conduct that investigation properly, so forensic evidence could
Speaker 3: have been lost.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I mean even we spoke to Charlie Hedges
Speaker 2: in our story as well, and he talks about the
Speaker 2: fact that you know there were crime you know, certain
Speaker 2: areas that when they're investigating Maddie's case, where you know,
Speaker 2: people were just walking through crime scenes which they could
Speaker 2: have probably could have taped up earlier. You know, evidence,
Speaker 2: crucial evidence could have been tampered with if that's the
Speaker 2: case because of Portuguese authorities.
Speaker 3: At the time. Did Portuguese police fail Madeline McCann.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean I think the initial actions were lacking.
Speaker 1: So maybe with a different approach we wouldn't be here
Speaker 1: talking about this now.
Speaker 3: Getting it right. Is the difference between life and death.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, As you said, Hazel went to the same police
Speaker 2: station and McCann's went to same police officers are dealing
Speaker 2: with similar things.
Speaker 3: But she's striking back Cazel. She wants to make a difference,
Speaker 3: and she's now taken her complaint against the Portuguese authorities, correct, Yeah,
Speaker 3: the European cort of given Rights.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she's lodged her application. I think for Hazel,
Speaker 2: she's doing it too as a sense of not necessarily closure,
Speaker 2: but I think she just wants the basic if someone
Speaker 2: is in a situation like this, you know, not that
Speaker 2: you'd want anyone. She wants people to be at least
Speaker 2: treated in a respectful manner, and that is a big
Speaker 2: thing that she talks about. You know, obviously she can't
Speaker 2: take back what has happened to her, but at least
Speaker 2: if she can, you know, talk out and try and
Speaker 2: make some changes for any young person or anyone who
Speaker 2: is in a situation like this, that they are treated
Speaker 2: in a humane way. And that's mainly you know, her
Speaker 2: big message.
Speaker 3: Remind them collect forensic evidence. There was forensic evidence in
Speaker 3: her apartment that was never collected. Bloodstones, fingernails.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she went back and had to see all this.
Speaker 3: If she's right, and as heard, she's adamant that Christian
Speaker 3: Ruckner is the man who raped her. Then that raises
Speaker 3: the questions so many what ifs if the police had
Speaker 3: taken her seriously, would he have been out to grab
Speaker 3: Maddie McCann and murder her as the German chief prosecutor
Speaker 3: believes he did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she says that in our interview, she says,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe if my case was investigated in a
Speaker 2: proper manner, perhaps Maddie would be at home now with
Speaker 2: her mum and dad.
Speaker 3: That's a terrible thing. Yeah, if the Portuguese police had
Speaker 3: believed you, do you believe Madeline McCann would be here today?
Speaker 4: Yes, I believe that Madeline would still be a homework
Speaker 4: her parents.
Speaker 3: What do you think makes this search so desperate?
Speaker 2: One could think maybe they've done this search to try
Speaker 2: and find something before it is too late. Yeah, September
Speaker 2: isn't too far away, no, of course.
Speaker 3: And you know, legally they only get one chance at
Speaker 3: charging this man, or anyone, and I mean that's the law.
Speaker 3: That's the law here too. Yes, you know, if they
Speaker 3: charge him and because they don't have forensic evidence, they
Speaker 3: don't have strong enough material to convict him, then he
Speaker 3: walks around can never be charged again. This is part
Speaker 3: of their thinking that if they don't charge him, but
Speaker 3: they search and find something, then they have a stronger case.
Speaker 3: You know, this is being seen as the final search,
Speaker 3: but of course any tip off, any admissions, could lead
Speaker 3: to further searches. Christian Vaulters, the chief prosecutor in Germany,
Speaker 3: said to me, this is it. This is the only
Speaker 3: person they're looking at. They have looked at everything else.
Speaker 3: There is nothing else to look at. So if he
Speaker 3: walks off into the night, never to be seen again,
Speaker 3: then this will remain an unsold case. And what is
Speaker 3: heartbreaking for many people is that they believe they know
Speaker 3: who did it.
Speaker 2: Christian Brookner does have a history and they you know,
Speaker 2: there are lots of reports saying that he will if
Speaker 2: he's allowed to walk free, he will go to a
Speaker 2: country where there is no extradition or disappear and they'll
Speaker 2: never be able to chase up again. He's gone.
Speaker 3: The one interesting thing, the one glimmer of hope, might
Speaker 3: be if that's the case, if that plays out that way,
Speaker 3: that there might be a chance that the UK might
Speaker 3: take some sort of action. The Portuguese is more unlikely,
Speaker 3: but that there is a way that we're yet to
Speaker 3: understand fully how that would work. But UK legal system
Speaker 3: will step in at some point. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the Madeline McCann fund, they would just give
Speaker 2: an extra money only in April. Maybe another jurisdiction could
Speaker 2: step in and try and find something. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but otherwise, yeah, I think this search really is a
Speaker 2: race against time to try and find something, because, like
Speaker 2: you said, it is one of the world's most prolific
Speaker 2: missing person's case, and you know, people are searching fans
Speaker 2: is and for the fam, you know, the McCann's. You
Speaker 2: couldn't even imagine what they're going through. And the glimmer
Speaker 2: of hope to have some kind of answers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, every time. You can't imagine what they must be
Speaker 3: going through when their daughter's name hits the headlines. It again,
Speaker 3: another search is called and we hear nothing beyond her.
Speaker 3: There's a chance that the prosecutors have got it wrong. Certainly,
Speaker 3: the defense has said in other allegations against Christen Brugner
Speaker 3: that they were weak and he ends up being acquitted.
Speaker 3: Acquitted because, according to the judge, the initial investigation was
Speaker 3: so poorly done. Yes, which again for Hazel behind is heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, heartbreaking, and I mean in that case as well,
Speaker 2: that's going through an appeal at the moment.
Speaker 3: I know how brave is she and she sat in
Speaker 3: a room opposite this man who she said did monstrous
Speaker 3: things to her, made to sit in a position where
Speaker 3: she had eye contact with him, and the worst, she said,
Speaker 3: beyond you know, apart from what he did to her,
Speaker 3: what she alleges he did to her, this was the
Speaker 3: worst moment in her life. And she's prepared to go
Speaker 3: back in there and do it all again if there's
Speaker 3: a retrial.
Speaker 2: She said in our interview that it was the worst.
Speaker 2: You know. In fact, she at one point, she didn't
Speaker 2: want to. She wanted to walk out and never walk
Speaker 2: back in there for day two.
Speaker 3: She's very impressive and living the terrible impact of what
Speaker 3: she suffered as a twenty year old.
Speaker 2: She said in again in our interview that that day
Speaker 2: she might not have died, but she's lost. Spiritually, she's gone.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: And whether he killed me physically or not, spiritually, that
Speaker 4: was me. I was gone. I was done that day,
Speaker 4: you know. That was yeah, I didn't exist anymore.
Speaker 3: Her spirit is strong though, and she's certainly worth watching,
Speaker 3: don't you think.
Speaker 2: Hundred percent? Yeah, she's a very great chat speak so well, well,
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you, good fun working with you on
Speaker 2: this one twice.
Speaker 3: Thank you. And if you want to see that story,
Speaker 3: if you missed it on Sunday night, check out the
Speaker 3: sixty minutes YouTube channel.