WEBVTT - Why Madeleine McCann’s disappearance is still talked about 18 years on

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up on sixty minutes crunch time in the medal

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<v Speaker 1>In McCann investigation. That is the golden nugget that they're

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<v Speaker 1>looking for.

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<v Speaker 2>There's police zero in.

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<v Speaker 3>Scary, just scary. It's a danger for the public.

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<v Speaker 4>The brave woman who could shed new light. He recorded everything,

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<v Speaker 4>this eighteen year mystery, the crime against me. I've been investigated.

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<v Speaker 4>The Madeline would still be a homework her parents.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome to the sixty Minutes podcast Extra Minutes Today we'll

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<v Speaker 3>be talking about our story on the Medaline McCann case,

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<v Speaker 3>the most high profile missing childcase in history. Joining me

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<v Speaker 3>now is my colleague Nikki Nikola.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, thank you.

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<v Speaker 3>It is a story that's been ongoing with no ending.

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<v Speaker 2>Still no no ending, eighteen years on and no ending.

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<v Speaker 2>See the reason why we're doing this story, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>when we're doing it now, is because there's been a

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<v Speaker 2>renewed search in Portugal and so obviously that's brought it

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<v Speaker 2>back into the headlines in the last but yes, at

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<v Speaker 2>this stage, still no answers as to where Madeline McCann

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<v Speaker 2>is riding.

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<v Speaker 3>The highs and lows of you know, the poor families

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<v Speaker 3>and the world that's interested and very sympathetic about this case.

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<v Speaker 3>We've seen searches before, they've led nowhere. What's different about

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<v Speaker 3>this one, in your opinion, is certainly about the timing

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<v Speaker 3>of this one.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the timing, I think is the important thing in

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<v Speaker 2>this one is because a prime suspect, Christian Bruckner, is

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<v Speaker 2>set to be released in September of this year. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a race against the clock to try and keep him

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<v Speaker 2>behind bars because even though he is the prime suspect,

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<v Speaker 2>they have no forensic evidence to keep him locked up

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<v Speaker 2>for Madeline McCann's case. So they are trying or that

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<v Speaker 2>they can to keep him behind bars. And obviously this

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<v Speaker 2>search is hoping to maybe come up with something. It's

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<v Speaker 2>wrapped up. We still have no answers. I mean, they

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<v Speaker 2>have said that they have taken some things away. What

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<v Speaker 2>that is, we don't really know. It's very you know.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been talking to a few of reporters who are

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<v Speaker 2>actually on the ground, and a lot of them don't

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<v Speaker 2>and actually know themselves what's happening. Everything is quite quiet,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think a lot of people as well, reporters

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<v Speaker 2>who have been involved in this case for a long time,

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<v Speaker 2>have been taken back and shocked by the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>this search has just kind of happened out of nowhere.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of people were surprised by the fact that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, all of a sudden they're searching again, and

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<v Speaker 2>it comes at a big, big cost.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, three hundred thousand pounds yes, correct, two three days

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<v Speaker 3>of searching.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>The reporting around it was that it came after a

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<v Speaker 3>tip off, But there is a desperation to it as well,

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<v Speaker 3>and we're still trying to get to the bottom of that,

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<v Speaker 3>aren't we. Yeah, did somebody inform on something?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it?

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<v Speaker 3>Because as you say, Chris John Bruckner is likely to

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<v Speaker 3>walk free. Is eligible from September one last throw of

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<v Speaker 3>the dice?

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<v Speaker 2>Totally?

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe all of it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think they are racing to try and find some

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<v Speaker 2>kind of forensic evidence. They have the Sunday, this big

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<v Speaker 2>investigation where they have lots of USB sticks with photographs

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<v Speaker 2>and things like that on it, But we don't actually

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<v Speaker 2>have any evidence that links to Mattie mccahn. So obviously

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<v Speaker 2>they're trying to find something.

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<v Speaker 3>No physical or forensic in the form of DNA or fingerprints.

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<v Speaker 3>It is the most fascinating scenario. You have the chief

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<v Speaker 3>prosecutor saying we have evidence that Madeline McCann is dead

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<v Speaker 3>and we have evidence that Christian Bruckner murdered her.

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<v Speaker 1>We have evidence, and we come to the conclusion that

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<v Speaker 1>Melanie mckenn is dead and Christian b murdereder.

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<v Speaker 3>He has said that to the world, and yet they

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<v Speaker 3>can't charge him. To think that this man who they

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<v Speaker 3>believe has done this, it's a very brave thing to

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<v Speaker 3>accuse somebody of murder, that he could walk free. And

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<v Speaker 3>we know he is a bad man. I mean, he

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<v Speaker 3>has a record as long as anyone's arm of hurting children,

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<v Speaker 3>hurting women, terrible chats with other pedophiles. It is a

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<v Speaker 3>scary prospect.

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<v Speaker 2>We interview Hazel be and she is an alleged rape

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<v Speaker 2>victim of Christian Bruckner. It's a terrifying story. Her story

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<v Speaker 2>is terrifying and she is obviously, you know, fronted court.

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<v Speaker 2>She has forwarded her anonymity to talk about her case

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<v Speaker 2>and sadly was acquitted in October last year.

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<v Speaker 3>Hazel is somebody that I've wanted to talk to for

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<v Speaker 3>a long time. She's an Irish woman who when she

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<v Speaker 3>was twenty so twenty one years ago in two thousand

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<v Speaker 3>and four, so three years before Madeline McCann went missing.

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<v Speaker 3>She was on a holiday working holiday in Portugal, not

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<v Speaker 3>far from where Maddie and her family would end up

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<v Speaker 3>twenty having the time of her life.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, living in an.

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<v Speaker 3>Apartment on her own. Comes home for the first time

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<v Speaker 3>on her own. She's normally with a group of friends

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<v Speaker 3>and the boyfriend at that time, falls asleep on the bed,

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<v Speaker 3>fully dressed, wakes up to her name being called by

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<v Speaker 3>a stranger.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and she doesn't know how he knew her name. Frightening, terrifying.

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<v Speaker 2>He was dressed all in black, when he had a

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<v Speaker 2>mask in which he could see his eyes, was holding

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<v Speaker 2>a knife.

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<v Speaker 3>How many times did he rape you?

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<v Speaker 2>Three?

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<v Speaker 4>Three times? Yeah, twice in my bedroom and once on

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<v Speaker 4>the breakfast bar.

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<v Speaker 3>Did you think you'd survive?

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<v Speaker 4>Honestly? Now that's the truth. A man dressed in black

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<v Speaker 4>with a knife, and he's carrying out these horrendous acts

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<v Speaker 4>on you, and he clearly hates you. He clearly doesn't

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<v Speaker 4>like you. He wants to hoart you. I don't think

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<v Speaker 4>it's it will be wrong with me to say that

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<v Speaker 4>I felt like I was gonna die.

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<v Speaker 3>Terrifying, Yeah, absolutely, Like worse nightmare, worst worst nightmare, And

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<v Speaker 3>what happened for the next couple of hours after that

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<v Speaker 3>is very distressing. The fact that she's a functioning, fighting,

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<v Speaker 3>wonderful woman is extraordinary given what she went through. Because

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<v Speaker 3>not only did she encounter Christian Ruckner is her allegation. Yes,

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<v Speaker 3>this man who she identified because of his piercing blue eyes.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, back then she told Portuguese police he was

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<v Speaker 3>German English speaking with a German accent, you have slim build,

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<v Speaker 3>but he had these piercing blue eyes. And that's all

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<v Speaker 3>she could see of him. But as much as she'd

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<v Speaker 3>like to forget those eyes, she can't.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, to this day, she talks about it in the interview.

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<v Speaker 2>Doesn't she that she can still, you know, picture those

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<v Speaker 2>really piercing blue eyes.

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<v Speaker 3>Look.

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<v Speaker 4>I completely understand why maybe people in the public might say,

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<v Speaker 4>how can you recognize someone by their eyes? I get it, Like,

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<v Speaker 4>I completely understand.

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<v Speaker 3>But when all.

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<v Speaker 4>You can see of this person's their eyes, you don't

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<v Speaker 4>have a choice fether or not you remember them. They're

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<v Speaker 4>just there.

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<v Speaker 3>But not only does she have this awful, unimaginable experience

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<v Speaker 3>with this man who she identified as Christian Brookner, but

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<v Speaker 3>then she's treated a double blow, really by the Portuguese police,

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<v Speaker 3>and they didn't believe her. They didn't investigate. According to her,

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<v Speaker 3>the only investigation was to follow her around to see

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<v Speaker 3>if she'd invited.

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<v Speaker 2>This sexual Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>I just don't know. How resilient do you have to be?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, she said. At the time, obviously, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>she went to police and like you said, they didn't

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<v Speaker 2>believe her. She went to hospital, you know, had chexts

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<v Speaker 2>as you do, and they just kind of wheeled her

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<v Speaker 2>around and left her there. And you know, this is

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<v Speaker 2>a twenty year old who is on a working holiday,

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<v Speaker 2>has no close family there and she's just left. I

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't even imagine what she would have gone through. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, even to this day, I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>anyone who's been through something like that, it has really

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<v Speaker 2>affected her life, but also her family's life, friends, close

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<v Speaker 2>friends of hers, you know, her mum and dad, her

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<v Speaker 2>brothers and sisters. And back to the image. In twenty twenty,

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<v Speaker 2>when it was released a picture of Christian Brukner, she

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<v Speaker 2>actually physically had a reaction to it. You know, she

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<v Speaker 2>had to go into the bathroom and was sick because

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<v Speaker 2>she saw this picture and she knew from looking at

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<v Speaker 2>that that that was her alleged attacker.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and she'd not made any allegations against anyone. So

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<v Speaker 3>from two thousand and four to twenty and twenty, she

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<v Speaker 3>didn't know who her attacker was. She didn't make any allegations.

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<v Speaker 3>She thought that that person would never face justice. She

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<v Speaker 3>is adamant that he's the man who attacked her. I

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<v Speaker 3>think what's interesting about her case though, too, is that

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<v Speaker 3>she gives an insight into how the Portuguese police dealt

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<v Speaker 3>with her and that investigation, and that is relevant and

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<v Speaker 3>important in this because it gives us some insight into

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<v Speaker 3>how the McCann family was treated. Yep, they were treated

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<v Speaker 3>as suspects in the disappearance of Maddie. And while that's

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<v Speaker 3>a natural first step, she looking at people closest to

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<v Speaker 3>the child because that's historically, yeah, where you will find

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<v Speaker 3>your offenders, that it would appear. And so the accusation

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<v Speaker 3>has been conduct that investigation properly, so forensic evidence could

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<v Speaker 3>have been lost.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah. I mean even we spoke to Charlie Hedges

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<v Speaker 2>in our story as well, and he talks about the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that you know there were crime you know, certain

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<v Speaker 2>areas that when they're investigating Maddie's case, where you know,

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<v Speaker 2>people were just walking through crime scenes which they could

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<v Speaker 2>have probably could have taped up earlier. You know, evidence,

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<v Speaker 2>crucial evidence could have been tampered with if that's the

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<v Speaker 2>case because of Portuguese authorities.

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<v Speaker 3>At the time. Did Portuguese police fail Madeline McCann.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I mean I think the initial actions were lacking.

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<v Speaker 1>So maybe with a different approach we wouldn't be here

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<v Speaker 1>talking about this now.

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<v Speaker 3>Getting it right. Is the difference between life and death.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, As you said, Hazel went to the same police

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<v Speaker 2>station and McCann's went to same police officers are dealing

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<v Speaker 2>with similar things.

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<v Speaker 3>But she's striking back Cazel. She wants to make a difference,

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<v Speaker 3>and she's now taken her complaint against the Portuguese authorities, correct, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>the European cort of given Rights.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, she's lodged her application. I think for Hazel,

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<v Speaker 2>she's doing it too as a sense of not necessarily closure,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think she just wants the basic if someone

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<v Speaker 2>is in a situation like this, you know, not that

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<v Speaker 2>you'd want anyone. She wants people to be at least

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<v Speaker 2>treated in a respectful manner, and that is a big

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<v Speaker 2>thing that she talks about. You know, obviously she can't

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<v Speaker 2>take back what has happened to her, but at least

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<v Speaker 2>if she can, you know, talk out and try and

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<v Speaker 2>make some changes for any young person or anyone who

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<v Speaker 2>is in a situation like this, that they are treated

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<v Speaker 2>in a humane way. And that's mainly you know, her

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<v Speaker 2>big message.

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<v Speaker 3>Remind them collect forensic evidence. There was forensic evidence in

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<v Speaker 3>her apartment that was never collected. Bloodstones, fingernails.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she went back and had to see all this.

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<v Speaker 3>If she's right, and as heard, she's adamant that Christian

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<v Speaker 3>Ruckner is the man who raped her. Then that raises

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<v Speaker 3>the questions so many what ifs if the police had

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<v Speaker 3>taken her seriously, would he have been out to grab

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<v Speaker 3>Maddie McCann and murder her as the German chief prosecutor

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<v Speaker 3>believes he did.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, she says that in our interview, she says,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe if my case was investigated in a

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<v Speaker 2>proper manner, perhaps Maddie would be at home now with

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<v Speaker 2>her mum and dad.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a terrible thing. Yeah, if the Portuguese police had

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<v Speaker 3>believed you, do you believe Madeline McCann would be here today?

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, I believe that Madeline would still be a homework

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<v Speaker 4>her parents.

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<v Speaker 3>What do you think makes this search so desperate?

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<v Speaker 2>One could think maybe they've done this search to try

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<v Speaker 2>and find something before it is too late. Yeah, September

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<v Speaker 2>isn't too far away, no, of course.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, legally they only get one chance at

0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:57.440
<v Speaker 3>charging this man, or anyone, and I mean that's the law.

0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.360
<v Speaker 3>That's the law here too. Yes, you know, if they

0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.439
<v Speaker 3>charge him and because they don't have forensic evidence, they

0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:08.400
<v Speaker 3>don't have strong enough material to convict him, then he

0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.400
<v Speaker 3>walks around can never be charged again. This is part

0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.080
<v Speaker 3>of their thinking that if they don't charge him, but

0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:19.600
<v Speaker 3>they search and find something, then they have a stronger case.

0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.360
<v Speaker 3>You know, this is being seen as the final search,

0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.720
<v Speaker 3>but of course any tip off, any admissions, could lead

0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:31.400
<v Speaker 3>to further searches. Christian Vaulters, the chief prosecutor in Germany,

0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:36.040
<v Speaker 3>said to me, this is it. This is the only

0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:39.520
<v Speaker 3>person they're looking at. They have looked at everything else.

0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.920
<v Speaker 3>There is nothing else to look at. So if he

0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.679
<v Speaker 3>walks off into the night, never to be seen again,

0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.880
<v Speaker 3>then this will remain an unsold case. And what is

0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:53.120
<v Speaker 3>heartbreaking for many people is that they believe they know

0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:54.000
<v Speaker 3>who did it.

0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.040
<v Speaker 2>Christian Brookner does have a history and they you know,

0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.640
<v Speaker 2>there are lots of reports saying that he will if

0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.560
<v Speaker 2>he's allowed to walk free, he will go to a

0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:05.959
<v Speaker 2>country where there is no extradition or disappear and they'll

0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.280
<v Speaker 2>never be able to chase up again. He's gone.

0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.360
<v Speaker 3>The one interesting thing, the one glimmer of hope, might

0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.520
<v Speaker 3>be if that's the case, if that plays out that way,

0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:19.080
<v Speaker 3>that there might be a chance that the UK might

0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:21.760
<v Speaker 3>take some sort of action. The Portuguese is more unlikely,

0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:26.440
<v Speaker 3>but that there is a way that we're yet to

0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:30.440
<v Speaker 3>understand fully how that would work. But UK legal system

0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:32.320
<v Speaker 3>will step in at some point. Yeah.

0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And the Madeline McCann fund, they would just give

0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:39.200
<v Speaker 2>an extra money only in April. Maybe another jurisdiction could

0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:44.200
<v Speaker 2>step in and try and find something. I don't know,

0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:48.599
<v Speaker 2>but otherwise, yeah, I think this search really is a

0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.800
<v Speaker 2>race against time to try and find something, because, like

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:56.439
<v Speaker 2>you said, it is one of the world's most prolific

0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.440
<v Speaker 2>missing person's case, and you know, people are searching fans

0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.280
<v Speaker 2>is and for the fam, you know, the McCann's. You

0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.679
<v Speaker 2>couldn't even imagine what they're going through. And the glimmer

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.000
<v Speaker 2>of hope to have some kind of answers.

0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, every time. You can't imagine what they must be

0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:15.199
<v Speaker 3>going through when their daughter's name hits the headlines. It again,

0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:20.120
<v Speaker 3>another search is called and we hear nothing beyond her.

0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.840
<v Speaker 3>There's a chance that the prosecutors have got it wrong. Certainly,

0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:28.960
<v Speaker 3>the defense has said in other allegations against Christen Brugner

0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 3>that they were weak and he ends up being acquitted.

0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:37.040
<v Speaker 3>Acquitted because, according to the judge, the initial investigation was

0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.920
<v Speaker 3>so poorly done. Yes, which again for Hazel behind is heartbreaking.

0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, heartbreaking, and I mean in that case as well,

0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:45.800
<v Speaker 2>that's going through an appeal at the moment.

0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.080
<v Speaker 3>I know how brave is she and she sat in

0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:53.040
<v Speaker 3>a room opposite this man who she said did monstrous

0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.960
<v Speaker 3>things to her, made to sit in a position where

0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:00.480
<v Speaker 3>she had eye contact with him, and the worst, she said,

0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.920
<v Speaker 3>beyond you know, apart from what he did to her,

0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.160
<v Speaker 3>what she alleges he did to her, this was the

0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 3>worst moment in her life. And she's prepared to go

0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.680
<v Speaker 3>back in there and do it all again if there's

0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:13.320
<v Speaker 3>a retrial.

0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.320
<v Speaker 2>She said in our interview that it was the worst.

0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:18.680
<v Speaker 2>You know. In fact, she at one point, she didn't

0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:20.400
<v Speaker 2>want to. She wanted to walk out and never walk

0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:21.680
<v Speaker 2>back in there for day two.

0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 3>She's very impressive and living the terrible impact of what

0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:27.560
<v Speaker 3>she suffered as a twenty year old.

0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 2>She said in again in our interview that that day

0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 2>she might not have died, but she's lost. Spiritually, she's gone.

0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:34.080
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.880
<v Speaker 4>And whether he killed me physically or not, spiritually, that

0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.440
<v Speaker 4>was me. I was gone. I was done that day,

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.920
<v Speaker 4>you know. That was yeah, I didn't exist anymore.

0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:48.040
<v Speaker 3>Her spirit is strong though, and she's certainly worth watching,

0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:48.560
<v Speaker 3>don't you think.

0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:52.480
<v Speaker 2>Hundred percent? Yeah, she's a very great chat speak so well, well,

0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.080
<v Speaker 2>thank you, thank you, good fun working with you on

0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:56.040
<v Speaker 2>this one twice.

0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.160
<v Speaker 3>Thank you. And if you want to see that story,

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.760
<v Speaker 3>if you missed it on Sunday night, check out the

0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:03.840
<v Speaker 3>sixty minutes YouTube channel.