1 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,320 S1: When Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor was taken into police custody on his 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,800 S1: 66th birthday last week, it was the first time in 3 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:17,520 S1: nearly 400 years that a British royal was arrested. I'm 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,040 S1: Samantha Selinger Morris, and you're listening to Morning Edition from 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,400 S1: The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald today, Europe correspondent 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,360 S1: David Crowe on what it means for the British monarchy 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:33,320 S1: that Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor was finally arrested after years of scandal 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:44,120 S1: and recriminations, and why he hasn't been charged. It's February 24th. David, 9 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:45,559 S1: welcome back to the podcast. 10 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,600 S2: It's great to be talking on the podcast again, Samantha. 11 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:49,440 S2: Good to see you. 12 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,560 S1: Well, it's great to see you. And there's no better 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,240 S1: person to speak to about this at the moment because you, 14 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,800 S1: of course, are in London. You were there, of course, 15 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,160 S1: when the news broke that the former prince had been arrested. 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,340 S1: So take us back to that moment. How did that 17 00:01:02,340 --> 00:01:03,420 S1: news unfold? 18 00:01:03,980 --> 00:01:07,940 S2: Pretty amazing really, when you think about it. Even though 19 00:01:08,459 --> 00:01:11,060 S2: we've been reporting for so long that there have been 20 00:01:11,060 --> 00:01:16,140 S2: these questions over Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, it's still quite shocking to 21 00:01:16,180 --> 00:01:19,660 S2: get to that point where they've actually turned up at 22 00:01:19,660 --> 00:01:24,979 S2: his country residence, police in unmarked cars and then taken 23 00:01:24,980 --> 00:01:26,540 S2: him away and put him in custody. 24 00:01:28,940 --> 00:01:34,140 S3: It's been an extraordinary day in UK history. Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor 25 00:01:34,180 --> 00:01:38,419 S3: arrested by British police over allegations of misconduct in public 26 00:01:38,420 --> 00:01:42,500 S3: office after documents in the Epstein file suggested he passed 27 00:01:42,500 --> 00:01:45,380 S3: secret government information to the disgraced financier. 28 00:01:46,100 --> 00:01:51,300 S2: And that's still something that I find incredibly dramatic. People 29 00:01:51,300 --> 00:01:53,260 S2: might say, look, you shouldn't be shocked. You know, the 30 00:01:53,260 --> 00:01:55,740 S2: writing's been on the wall. In fact, I think there's 31 00:01:55,740 --> 00:02:00,300 S2: always been a question about whether police and other authorities 32 00:02:00,340 --> 00:02:03,480 S2: really had it in them to take this to the 33 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,480 S2: point where they brought him in for an interview, to 34 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,920 S2: ask him about all this history. And I think the 35 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,600 S2: tipping point, I mean, I think you could argue that 36 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,960 S2: the tipping point should have been some of the concerns 37 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,839 S2: raised about the treatment of younger women and girls by 38 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,280 S2: Jeffrey Epstein and the cohort around him many years ago. 39 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,680 S2: But this time, the tipping point was really a matter 40 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:33,480 S2: of the disclosure of confidential government information. The emails which gave, 41 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,680 S2: I think, authorities something concrete to say here. We've got 42 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,160 S2: something to ask about. And they decided that they would move. 43 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,520 S1: Okay. Well, we'll get into the allegations in just a moment. 44 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,920 S1: But first, let's get into, as you say, that shocking 45 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:54,079 S1: moment where there's that image of Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor in the 46 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,520 S1: back of a police car. He's slumped in the back. 47 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,280 S1: His eyes are wide. He's got his hands clutched together. 48 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,740 S1: What was the reaction over there in the UK? Because 49 00:03:03,740 --> 00:03:05,900 S1: you and I were discussing, just before we started recording, 50 00:03:05,900 --> 00:03:09,179 S1: that this is the first arrest of a British royal 51 00:03:09,180 --> 00:03:12,780 S1: in nearly 400 years. The last one was King Charles 52 00:03:12,820 --> 00:03:15,859 S1: the First, and that led to his execution and the 53 00:03:15,860 --> 00:03:18,940 S1: temporary the monarchy was, was they got rid of the 54 00:03:18,940 --> 00:03:21,780 S1: monarchy there for about 11 years. So it was massive. 55 00:03:21,780 --> 00:03:26,300 S1: So what was the reaction to this really monumental arrest? 56 00:03:26,620 --> 00:03:30,540 S2: This has been a slow motion investigation in some way, 57 00:03:30,540 --> 00:03:35,580 S2: a slow motion scandal because it's happened over such a 58 00:03:35,580 --> 00:03:40,060 S2: long period of time. And so even though I found 59 00:03:40,060 --> 00:03:43,700 S2: the moment of arrest to be a really dramatic moment 60 00:03:44,020 --> 00:03:48,140 S2: when I went to Buckingham Palace to talk to British people, 61 00:03:48,380 --> 00:03:51,700 S2: I found it so fascinating that the common response multiple 62 00:03:51,700 --> 00:03:55,140 S2: times was, this should have happened earlier. There wasn't a 63 00:03:55,140 --> 00:03:58,740 S2: sense from British people I spoke to that, oh my goodness. 64 00:03:58,780 --> 00:04:01,300 S2: You know, I've never I've never seen anything like this. 65 00:04:01,300 --> 00:04:03,600 S2: I'm so shocked. There was a kind of a pent 66 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,600 S2: up frustration, I think that Andrew had been shielded for 67 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,200 S2: too long and that this had been a long time coming. 68 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,440 S1: But of course, the main point here is that Prince 69 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,080 S1: Andrew has not been charged or he wasn't arrested for 70 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,880 S1: anything to do with alleged sexual impropriety or sexual crimes. 71 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,520 S1: This is about his time as the trade envoy. So 72 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,480 S1: let's get into the nuts and bolts. What has he 73 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,359 S1: actually been arrested for? What are the allegations? 74 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,600 S2: When I talk to people, that's all a bit of 75 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,800 S2: a blur to some of the Brits I spoke to, 76 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,240 S2: because they just think he should have been dealt with 77 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,920 S2: earlier on a whole range of fronts. But I think 78 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,720 S2: it's important to be specific about what he's facing. He's 79 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,239 S2: not been charged. He's facing an investigation. He's been released 80 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:58,040 S2: under investigation. So they held him in custody while they 81 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,359 S2: presumably questioned him. But it's about his conduct as a 82 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,740 S2: trade envoy now, in 2001, after he left the Navy, 83 00:05:05,779 --> 00:05:09,740 S2: he was appointed a trade envoy, which gave him a 84 00:05:09,860 --> 00:05:13,779 S2: public duty because he was in an official role. But 85 00:05:13,779 --> 00:05:16,179 S2: it also gave him a lot of latitude to travel 86 00:05:16,180 --> 00:05:18,340 S2: around the world, to do deals, to see a lot 87 00:05:18,339 --> 00:05:21,940 S2: of people, to build connections and have a network of investors, 88 00:05:21,940 --> 00:05:27,060 S2: wealthy people, people like Jeffrey Epstein. And in that role, 89 00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:30,860 S2: we now know. But people weren't sure about it at 90 00:05:30,860 --> 00:05:33,900 S2: the time. He was in touch with Jeffrey Epstein and 91 00:05:33,900 --> 00:05:37,900 S2: sending information. How much information we can't be certain about. 92 00:05:38,300 --> 00:05:40,420 S2: But we do know from the emails released by the 93 00:05:40,420 --> 00:05:44,700 S2: US Department of Justice that the Prince, as he was 94 00:05:44,700 --> 00:05:49,460 S2: at the time, was sending government documents, assessments of trade 95 00:05:49,460 --> 00:05:56,540 S2: missions or assessments of investment opportunities to Jeffrey Epstein, whether 96 00:05:56,540 --> 00:06:03,080 S2: they were of incredible financial value to Jeffrey Epstein. We 97 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,520 S2: can't know because the emails released by the Department of 98 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:10,240 S2: Justice don't include the attachments. So we don't know what 99 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:16,040 S2: those documents showed. But we do know that in one case, 100 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:21,200 S2: the prince, as he was, got information from his office. 101 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,920 S2: I think government document about a trade mission. Five minutes later, 102 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,760 S2: he sent it on to Jeffrey Epstein. So there was 103 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,719 S2: this regular pattern of communication even after that point when 104 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,280 S2: Prince Andrew said to the BBC and others that he 105 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,080 S2: didn't have anything to do with Jeffrey Epstein. He was 106 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,520 S2: still in contact with a key individual who was talking 107 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,120 S2: to them both. So I think there were backchannels, there 108 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:48,000 S2: was information being traded in a way. And the way 109 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,240 S2: I've seen it is in some of the emails, when 110 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,599 S2: you go through them, you're seeing these insiders, this network 111 00:06:54,600 --> 00:07:00,000 S2: around Epstein trading information. Then in the next email, they're 112 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:05,539 S2: talking about girls. Right. It was this network of sleazy 113 00:07:05,540 --> 00:07:09,180 S2: behavior at Epstein's island. At the same time, there was 114 00:07:09,180 --> 00:07:12,660 S2: dubious conduct going on with the exchange of information. And 115 00:07:12,660 --> 00:07:15,420 S2: let's face it, Epstein was an investor and a financier, 116 00:07:15,900 --> 00:07:19,540 S2: and there was huge scope for him to use inside information. 117 00:07:20,060 --> 00:07:21,820 S1: So tell us a little bit more about what the 118 00:07:21,820 --> 00:07:25,660 S1: police are actually investigating here. It's improper conduct in public office. 119 00:07:25,660 --> 00:07:28,460 S1: So what is that all about? Is the suggestion or 120 00:07:28,460 --> 00:07:32,580 S1: the concern perhaps, that he just gained financially from passing 121 00:07:32,580 --> 00:07:36,580 S1: over confidential information that he gained as trade envoy to 122 00:07:36,620 --> 00:07:38,740 S1: people for his own gain? Is it that he could 123 00:07:38,780 --> 00:07:42,300 S1: have been harming British security? What is the concern here? 124 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:44,420 S1: And tell us a bit more about this alleged offence, 125 00:07:44,420 --> 00:07:49,580 S1: which we have to say, Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor denies any wrongdoing. 126 00:07:50,540 --> 00:07:53,220 S2: The offence of misconduct in public office and he was 127 00:07:53,220 --> 00:07:56,060 S2: in public office. He had a public duty as the 128 00:07:56,060 --> 00:08:00,060 S2: trade envoy within a government agency. But it's been interesting 129 00:08:00,060 --> 00:08:03,400 S2: for me to read some of the advice from prosecutors 130 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,440 S2: about stacking up a case of this kind, because it's 131 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,400 S2: very clear that there's a high benchmark. It doesn't necessarily 132 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,480 S2: have to be financial misconduct, although I think we'd all 133 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,520 S2: think that that's obviously one way in which misconduct can 134 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,720 S2: can arise. There is interesting language from past cases about 135 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,240 S2: how it really needs to be established that there is 136 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,480 S2: wilful misconduct. It really has to have that intent or 137 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,000 S2: that that awareness, that knowledge. Well, this is for me 138 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,480 S2: a key reason why in my writing about it, over 139 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,840 S2: the last couple of days, I have not assumed that 140 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,240 S2: the former prince will be charged, because I think that 141 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:39,960 S2: there's a lot of work that needs to be done 142 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,679 S2: to really establish some of the evidence to show that 143 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,719 S2: there was wilful misconduct. And so I think the way 144 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,839 S2: I've put it is Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor may be somebody we 145 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:55,480 S2: always talk of as being arrested for misconduct in public office, 146 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,320 S2: not as somebody who was charged with misconduct, let alone 147 00:08:58,320 --> 00:08:59,760 S2: convicted of misconduct. 148 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,239 S1: But we do know it's a big deal. My understanding 149 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,100 S1: is that often when really high profile members of the 150 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:07,580 S1: public in Britain and elsewhere, for that matter, you know, 151 00:09:07,620 --> 00:09:10,100 S1: when there's some suspicion that they've done something wrong. My 152 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:13,179 S1: understanding is that usually the course of events is that 153 00:09:13,179 --> 00:09:16,020 S1: the police might invite them for an interview, and they're 154 00:09:16,020 --> 00:09:18,700 S1: not sort of obligated to be interviewed, but they might 155 00:09:18,700 --> 00:09:22,380 S1: get a warrant and their house might be searched for documents, 156 00:09:22,380 --> 00:09:25,060 S1: and they've been invited for an interview. But that's absolutely 157 00:09:25,059 --> 00:09:28,300 S1: not what's happened here. He has been arrested. And my 158 00:09:28,300 --> 00:09:31,179 S1: understanding is for him to have been arrested by police 159 00:09:31,420 --> 00:09:33,180 S1: in the UK over this, they would have to have 160 00:09:33,179 --> 00:09:36,420 S1: reasonable suspicion and they would have to have had documents 161 00:09:36,420 --> 00:09:39,219 S1: and evidence would suggest that there is serious concern here. 162 00:09:39,220 --> 00:09:42,339 S1: He's not just being invited to be interviewed. Why do 163 00:09:42,340 --> 00:09:45,500 S1: you think there's been his arrest now? Like why this 164 00:09:45,500 --> 00:09:49,380 S1: tipping point after so much time, so many allegations of 165 00:09:49,380 --> 00:09:53,220 S1: wrongdoing of various kinds into the former Prince Andrew? 166 00:09:53,780 --> 00:09:55,820 S2: I think it's because of the emails that came out 167 00:09:55,820 --> 00:09:58,179 S2: from the Department of Justice at the end of January 168 00:09:58,940 --> 00:10:01,500 S2: and in fact, full credit here to the BBC, because 169 00:10:01,500 --> 00:10:05,970 S2: there was a BBC reporter who found the first instance 170 00:10:05,970 --> 00:10:10,770 S2: of a confidential government document being forwarded to Jeffrey Epstein, 171 00:10:11,010 --> 00:10:13,290 S2: and that then led other people to search through the 172 00:10:13,290 --> 00:10:15,970 S2: files to find similar cases. And bear in mind the 173 00:10:15,970 --> 00:10:19,930 S2: Department of Justice in the US didn't find them and 174 00:10:19,970 --> 00:10:24,130 S2: reveal them and say, here's something a bit curious. They 175 00:10:24,130 --> 00:10:28,890 S2: just released millions of files, and it's really been the 176 00:10:28,929 --> 00:10:33,330 S2: work of the media to search those files. That's turned up. 177 00:10:33,330 --> 00:10:37,209 S2: The thing that I think led to the public debate 178 00:10:37,210 --> 00:10:42,370 S2: becoming so strong that it was just untenable for authorities 179 00:10:42,370 --> 00:10:44,730 S2: to sit back and say, oh, look, we're really not sure. 180 00:10:44,730 --> 00:10:48,090 S2: We better not do anything. I think that really created 181 00:10:48,090 --> 00:10:50,890 S2: a situation where they they had to do the interview, 182 00:10:51,370 --> 00:10:53,929 S2: had to call him in, and they had to do 183 00:10:53,929 --> 00:10:58,809 S2: it by going and searching two properties and arriving unannounced. 184 00:10:58,809 --> 00:11:01,689 S2: Because of course, the calculations there are that if you 185 00:11:01,690 --> 00:11:03,790 S2: tell somebody you're going to call them in for an interview. 186 00:11:03,830 --> 00:11:05,110 S2: Then they destroy documents. 187 00:11:10,910 --> 00:11:11,870 S1: After the break. 188 00:11:13,270 --> 00:11:16,590 S2: But what's being done now is, in some ways, the 189 00:11:16,590 --> 00:11:19,750 S2: King's work to make sure that it's dealt with as 190 00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:23,189 S2: strongly as possible in order to protect what the repercussions 191 00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:25,110 S2: would be for Prince William down the track. 192 00:11:30,990 --> 00:11:33,670 S1: And so what's actually the latest in the investigation? And 193 00:11:33,670 --> 00:11:36,590 S1: can you talk us through what the process is and 194 00:11:36,590 --> 00:11:39,990 S1: why Andrew was released without charge? You know, obviously it's 195 00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:42,550 S1: very serious. He was arrested. But like you say, he 196 00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:44,870 S1: has actually been released without charge. 197 00:11:45,150 --> 00:11:48,470 S2: What we have seen is that they've continued with their searches. 198 00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:55,110 S2: They continued searching his former house at Windsor. They continued 199 00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:59,670 S2: that into Monday. So that's interesting because he was moving 200 00:11:59,670 --> 00:12:02,710 S2: out of that residence. Clearly they thought there's something more 201 00:12:02,750 --> 00:12:07,809 S2: they needed to look at there. So that's ongoing. But 202 00:12:07,809 --> 00:12:11,530 S2: at this point there's been no further statement from police. 203 00:12:12,050 --> 00:12:16,650 S2: And also really key point to make. There's been no 204 00:12:16,650 --> 00:12:22,610 S2: statement from Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, not through his lawyers, not through 205 00:12:22,610 --> 00:12:25,490 S2: any public relations outfit that he's got working for him. 206 00:12:25,490 --> 00:12:30,050 S2: Just total silence. I find that interesting because often you 207 00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:34,090 S2: get a very basic statement from lawyers, but here it's 208 00:12:34,090 --> 00:12:38,090 S2: total silence. So the onus is, in that sense, is 209 00:12:38,090 --> 00:12:43,210 S2: really on the authorities to put up a case. And 210 00:12:43,210 --> 00:12:46,570 S2: without that next step, he may never feel that he 211 00:12:46,570 --> 00:12:47,930 S2: needs to say anything at all. 212 00:12:48,850 --> 00:12:51,450 S1: And reporting in the last 24 hours is that the 213 00:12:51,450 --> 00:12:55,330 S1: government is actually planning to remove Andrew from that royal 214 00:12:55,330 --> 00:12:58,770 S1: line of succession. He is around eighth in line to 215 00:12:58,809 --> 00:13:01,650 S1: the throne. So I guess one could question what the 216 00:13:01,650 --> 00:13:04,190 S1: real point is. But tell me, has there been a 217 00:13:04,190 --> 00:13:07,150 S1: shift towards how the public feels about the monarchy? 218 00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:09,790 S2: I think that there's a shift in thinking that's been 219 00:13:09,790 --> 00:13:12,829 S2: happening in the UK, because the government here has been 220 00:13:12,830 --> 00:13:16,189 S2: signalling that it's willing to consider passing a law to 221 00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:21,430 S2: remove him as from the succession. They weren't talking about 222 00:13:21,429 --> 00:13:24,590 S2: that last October, November. They said it wasn't a priority. 223 00:13:24,590 --> 00:13:27,270 S2: They've got a lot of other important work to do. Now, 224 00:13:27,270 --> 00:13:30,630 S2: I think there's a realization that it's so bad, they 225 00:13:30,630 --> 00:13:34,230 S2: have to be crystal clear that he cannot be in 226 00:13:34,230 --> 00:13:36,709 S2: line to the throne. And that, I think, would then 227 00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:40,510 S2: raise the question, where in Australia? I'd be surprised if 228 00:13:40,510 --> 00:13:42,950 S2: they didn't take the same position in government, which is, yes, 229 00:13:42,950 --> 00:13:46,589 S2: we're willing to consider that even if there are no 230 00:13:46,590 --> 00:13:51,110 S2: charges laid and it never moves to another step. There 231 00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:56,030 S2: is still this scandal that surrounds Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, so he'll 232 00:13:56,030 --> 00:13:59,709 S2: never escape the questions about his personal conduct and that, 233 00:13:59,710 --> 00:14:03,150 S2: I think, will tarnish him for the rest of his life. 234 00:14:03,510 --> 00:14:06,730 S2: It means that the royal family has to isolate him, 235 00:14:06,730 --> 00:14:09,929 S2: which they are doing, which can't be easy for a 236 00:14:09,929 --> 00:14:12,250 S2: king to have to do that to his own brother. 237 00:14:12,929 --> 00:14:16,650 S2: But it's something that is being done to protect the monarchy, 238 00:14:16,690 --> 00:14:20,210 S2: protect the institution, and protect the House of Windsor. I 239 00:14:20,210 --> 00:14:23,130 S2: do find the dynamic interesting in the sense that there 240 00:14:23,130 --> 00:14:26,530 S2: will always be, I guess, a stench from this scandal 241 00:14:26,530 --> 00:14:29,890 S2: and that will last into future reigns, including the reign 242 00:14:29,930 --> 00:14:33,650 S2: of Prince William. But what's being done now is, in 243 00:14:33,650 --> 00:14:36,730 S2: some ways, the King's work to make sure that it's 244 00:14:36,730 --> 00:14:40,490 S2: dealt with as strongly as possible in order to protect 245 00:14:40,490 --> 00:14:43,410 S2: what the repercussions would be for Prince William down the track. 246 00:14:43,530 --> 00:14:45,410 S4: But I want to put this to you, because ever since. 247 00:14:45,410 --> 00:14:49,050 S1: This has come out, I've started wondering, could this even 248 00:14:49,090 --> 00:14:51,570 S1: and wait with me here for a moment, strengthen the monarchy? 249 00:14:51,570 --> 00:14:53,410 S1: And the reason I say that is because I've seen 250 00:14:53,410 --> 00:14:57,570 S1: so much commentary surrounding how King Charles has responded to this. 251 00:14:57,570 --> 00:14:59,810 S1: We know he took a very unusual step in a 252 00:14:59,810 --> 00:15:02,370 S1: statement to say that he stood ready to support police 253 00:15:02,370 --> 00:15:05,750 S1: if they were approached, and I believe within hours of 254 00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:08,630 S1: his brother being arrested, he was at a fashion show 255 00:15:08,630 --> 00:15:11,710 S1: and I've seen commentary of people going good on him, 256 00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:14,990 S1: you know, business as usual. He is just, you know, 257 00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:17,630 S1: backing the police and getting on with the job. Which 258 00:15:17,630 --> 00:15:20,790 S1: made me wonder, could this even strengthen the monarchy? Or 259 00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:22,710 S1: perhaps King Charles's standing? 260 00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:27,150 S2: I wouldn't underestimate the ability of the monarchy to survive this. 261 00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:31,630 S2: I am not one of those who who've been writing. Oh, 262 00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:34,710 S2: this will, uh. This is a huge problem for the monarchy. 263 00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:37,150 S2: And the monarchy is now on notice. I don't see 264 00:15:37,150 --> 00:15:39,430 S2: it playing out that way. When I talk to one 265 00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:43,510 S2: guy outside Buckingham Palace, he said he was 100% behind 266 00:15:43,510 --> 00:15:46,350 S2: the monarchy. He said there are black sheep in every family. 267 00:15:46,390 --> 00:15:48,790 S2: He believes in the institution. And other others I spoke 268 00:15:48,790 --> 00:15:51,150 S2: to as well were the same. They they believe in 269 00:15:51,150 --> 00:15:56,310 S2: the institutional arrangements of, of, uh, the English structure, the 270 00:15:56,310 --> 00:15:59,430 S2: British structure. And I think there are many in Australia 271 00:15:59,430 --> 00:16:01,790 S2: who would see things the same way, even though there's 272 00:16:01,830 --> 00:16:04,470 S2: a stronger republican movement in Australia than there is in 273 00:16:04,650 --> 00:16:08,170 S2: the UK. I think also they have been getting on 274 00:16:08,170 --> 00:16:12,890 S2: with business as usual. William and Kate went to the BAFTAs, right? 275 00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:16,170 S2: So they're at a high glamour event in London at 276 00:16:16,170 --> 00:16:21,330 S2: the Cinema Awards with high profile actors. King Charles has 277 00:16:21,330 --> 00:16:24,410 S2: got a lot of supporters. All the things that they do, 278 00:16:24,810 --> 00:16:27,810 S2: it's easy to mock, but the fact is that they 279 00:16:27,810 --> 00:16:30,370 S2: resonate with a lot of people, and so they still 280 00:16:30,370 --> 00:16:34,810 S2: have that reservoir of goodwill in the community. And it 281 00:16:34,810 --> 00:16:38,010 S2: is kind of, you know, there's an irrational element to 282 00:16:38,010 --> 00:16:41,050 S2: it that they're not going to be dragged down and 283 00:16:41,050 --> 00:16:44,530 S2: destroyed by this scandal in their own family. But I 284 00:16:44,530 --> 00:16:47,970 S2: think that on the balance of probabilities, that is the 285 00:16:47,970 --> 00:16:49,130 S2: way it's going to pan out. 286 00:16:49,730 --> 00:16:51,850 S1: But we do have to talk about the fact that 287 00:16:52,050 --> 00:16:55,610 S1: there's something like 3 million files of the Epstein files 288 00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:58,270 S1: that have not been released, and even among the 3 289 00:16:58,270 --> 00:17:01,450 S1: million or so pages of documents of the Epstein files 290 00:17:01,450 --> 00:17:04,290 S1: that have been released, of course, Prince Andrew comes out 291 00:17:04,290 --> 00:17:08,310 S1: of it looking very badly. There's still these questions about 292 00:17:08,310 --> 00:17:11,470 S1: his treatment of young women, and especially the claim by 293 00:17:11,470 --> 00:17:13,750 S1: the late Virginia Giuffre that she was forced to have 294 00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:16,909 S1: sex with him as a 17 year old. So how 295 00:17:16,950 --> 00:17:18,790 S1: are people feeling in England about the fact that he's 296 00:17:18,790 --> 00:17:21,790 S1: been arrested? Not over the way he's treated women, but 297 00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:23,350 S1: about leaking information? 298 00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:29,270 S2: Yes, you you never know what else could emerge, will 299 00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:32,550 S2: never be sure about whether another document could land at 300 00:17:32,550 --> 00:17:36,030 S2: any moment. Although I also feel that when you've got 301 00:17:36,030 --> 00:17:40,750 S2: a police investigation, as soon as an arrest is made 302 00:17:40,750 --> 00:17:44,350 S2: and the police call somebody in, you often find that 303 00:17:44,350 --> 00:17:48,389 S2: things quieten down because people won't answer questions. They'll say, oh, 304 00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:50,190 S2: that's a matter before the police. And I can't talk 305 00:17:50,190 --> 00:17:53,310 S2: about that. So you do sometimes find a bit of silence. 306 00:17:53,630 --> 00:17:57,030 S2: But getting to that point of you never know what 307 00:17:57,030 --> 00:18:02,190 S2: can emerge. Andrew Mountbatten, Windsor and Ghislaine Maxwell said for 308 00:18:02,190 --> 00:18:07,570 S2: years that the photograph of the former Prince with Virginia 309 00:18:07,570 --> 00:18:12,489 S2: Roberts Giuffre was false, was a fake. And in the 310 00:18:12,530 --> 00:18:15,410 S2: emails that have emerged from the Department of Justice, there's 311 00:18:15,410 --> 00:18:18,890 S2: an email from Ghislaine Maxwell where she admits it was true. 312 00:18:19,090 --> 00:18:22,930 S2: 15 years ago, journalists got in touch with Jeffrey Epstein 313 00:18:23,250 --> 00:18:26,730 S2: to ask about his use of RAF airfields in England. 314 00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:31,889 S2: And they denied, denied, denied. In the emails, there's an 315 00:18:31,890 --> 00:18:36,690 S2: email where Jeffrey Epstein admits he was using RAF airfields 316 00:18:36,810 --> 00:18:41,890 S2: in England. Did Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor help him to do that? 317 00:18:41,890 --> 00:18:46,290 S2: Was there a connection there? Well, that's one avenue for investigation. 318 00:18:46,290 --> 00:18:49,970 S2: But again, it's only emerged out of these emails. So yes, 319 00:18:49,970 --> 00:18:52,010 S2: you never really know what else may emerge. 320 00:18:56,210 --> 00:18:58,530 S1: Well it seems like this is far from over for 321 00:18:58,530 --> 00:19:01,930 S1: Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor. So thank you so much, David, for your time. 322 00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:04,930 S2: Thanks, Samantha. It's always good to talk. See you next time. 323 00:19:12,790 --> 00:19:15,750 S1: And in other news today, a key architect of the 324 00:19:15,750 --> 00:19:19,710 S1: ballpark and Paul Keating era of economic reform has pleaded 325 00:19:19,710 --> 00:19:23,350 S1: with the Albanese government to deliver real tax reform that 326 00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:27,709 S1: rewards young Australians. Police in New South Wales, investigating the 327 00:19:27,710 --> 00:19:31,709 S1: kidnapping of a Sydney grandfather are combing through bushland searching 328 00:19:31,710 --> 00:19:34,870 S1: for the 85 year old. For the latest developments, head 329 00:19:34,869 --> 00:19:38,950 S1: to our websites. Read these headlines and more on the 330 00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:46,710 S1: Smh.com.au and the Ajc.com. Today's episode was produced by Josh towers. 331 00:19:46,750 --> 00:19:50,390 S1: Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are 332 00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:54,150 S1: overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like 333 00:19:54,190 --> 00:19:57,190 S1: our show, follow the Morning Edition and leave a review 334 00:19:57,190 --> 00:20:00,670 S1: for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.