Speaker 1: Welcome to a massive episode of Insideline. Justin Harrison in
Speaker 1: the hot seed as usual, Jamie Panduram is back. Good
Speaker 1: to see you Pandem for the first time this year.
Speaker 1: Knichi Michael Hooper, are we clapping?
Speaker 2: I would put.
Speaker 1: Myself I encouraged on this show. Hook made great to
Speaker 1: have you back. A little update. How was Japan? I
Speaker 1: was getting back on the field.
Speaker 3: Well, if you want to start with getting back on
Speaker 3: the field, I was so rusty, so I didn't play
Speaker 3: a game since started November twenty twenty three. Now I
Speaker 3: played some sevens, but what I learned is, well, when
Speaker 3: I was playing sevens and going back to fifteen's, how
Speaker 3: much of a different game that is, Like it is
Speaker 3: just worlds apart. And my latest touch in rugby was seven.
Speaker 3: So I knew I was going to play for about
Speaker 3: a month, so I was in reasonable condition, got back
Speaker 3: in shape, trained up in Toyota for a week and
Speaker 3: then played a B game and then the week later
Speaker 3: I played against Kobe Renses now team up in up
Speaker 3: in Japan, and I was very underwhelming in my first
Speaker 3: first outing in eighteen months, like just stuff like you know,
Speaker 3: ceiling and getting penalized for ceiling over the ball because
Speaker 3: I'd been in that sevenths role not trying to kill
Speaker 3: around the breakdown and take out players, you know, rusty
Speaker 3: in my timing everything like that.
Speaker 4: So I warmed up and got some decent performances.
Speaker 3: We struggled as a team up there in Toyota, but
Speaker 3: in terms of I was really proud of getting back
Speaker 3: on the field, being competitive, playing you know, and playing
Speaker 3: around some great players. It was awesome, but more importantly
Speaker 3: for us as a family in the stage of my career, like,
Speaker 3: it was so much fun to be up in Japan
Speaker 3: with the family, two young kids doing something you know
Speaker 3: that I've never done like that. I mean, last time
Speaker 3: I went to Japan was was COVID. So yeah, it
Speaker 3: was a great experience for the family off the field,
Speaker 3: and yeah, very thankful for that four months now.
Speaker 1: When I say we, that's a very much universal and
Speaker 1: I don't mean to include everyone, but we discussed at
Speaker 1: length whether you're return to fifteen's in the Japanese League
Speaker 1: would lead to maybe a fairy tale farewell.
Speaker 4: Fairy tale farewell.
Speaker 1: I got there in the end in that os en
Speaker 1: Z side against the Lions in Adelaide on July twelveth
Speaker 1: Timmy Horne in particular, big fan of the notion. He
Speaker 1: wanted you to be captain, didn't want anyone else picked
Speaker 1: who wasn't already playing in Australia, but he was happy
Speaker 1: to go against his own advice there. But is it
Speaker 1: done and dusted? You won't be featuring in that game?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Well you know I paid a bit for Tim to
Speaker 3: give me a so no, I won't be playing in
Speaker 3: that fixture.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It sounds like a great game. It is going to
Speaker 3: be a great game, really intriguing on a lot of
Speaker 3: different fronts. We just had a great discussion with it
Speaker 3: beforehand around how it can look and who's going to
Speaker 3: play and everything like that.
Speaker 4: What do I know, I've played the lines before.
Speaker 3: I know that they're a week out from a three
Speaker 3: game test series and it's getting pointy on that tour,
Speaker 3: and you've got probably a fully fit starting team who's
Speaker 3: going to play against the wallaby Is a week later,
Speaker 3: chomping at the bit, battle hardened. And I looked at
Speaker 3: myself and I thought, well, I've had a good time
Speaker 3: in Japan. They pour a good assay, they make a
Speaker 3: nice rice ball at the local convenie I'm about eight
Speaker 3: weeks ten weeks out of being battle hardened in not
Speaker 3: a test environment, so I'd have to come home now, train,
Speaker 3: train by myself, maybe try and get a run for Manly,
Speaker 3: which would have been cool as well, But come up
Speaker 3: against those guys in a team that you pulled together
Speaker 3: for a week and as a young guy.
Speaker 4: Perhaps two years, four years, five years.
Speaker 3: Six years ago, Oh my god, how good as almost
Speaker 3: thirty four year old who made a fleeting comeback. No,
Speaker 3: it didn't sound like a game that would be a
Speaker 3: fairy tale ending for me. Not that I was ever
Speaker 3: after a fairy tale ending, but a game that wouldn't
Speaker 3: give me any different. I've had so lucky with my
Speaker 3: career and everything like that that I didn't need this
Speaker 3: to be that type of a moment.
Speaker 4: So it was an eat decision.
Speaker 3: I think it'd be great to see, you know, an
Speaker 3: up and coming player who could come up and play,
Speaker 3: or you know, someone else who doesn't missus out on
Speaker 3: the Wallaby squad, or a great New Zealand player to
Speaker 3: fill that role. I think that's something really exciting for
Speaker 3: that game. But yeah, no, it wasn't going to be Unfortunately.
Speaker 2: What do you think the focus should be on that game, mate,
Speaker 2: because we were talking and you know, now we're on Caral,
Speaker 2: we'll talk about you know, it seemed to me and
Speaker 2: both of us agreed that it's a great opportunity to
Speaker 2: have a marquee game in amongst some high powered provincial
Speaker 2: games and some high powered test matches, to have a
Speaker 2: marquee celebratory game about this thing called rugby and the
Speaker 2: global attraction. Therefore, getting the biggest names possible was one
Speaker 2: of the discussions, right and then also having a performance
Speaker 2: factor for player attention or say Pete Sarmono playing in
Speaker 2: those sorts of games that ad merit, didn't it well.
Speaker 3: I think Pete Samo's probably in both categories. Yet a
Speaker 3: guy coming back in Australia but also a household name,
Speaker 3: has played a lot of Wallaby games and you know,
Speaker 3: just been a part of a winning team. So even
Speaker 3: if he wasn't coming back to Australia, can you include him?
Speaker 3: I would have liked to have seen the absolute and
Speaker 3: this is the discussion over what best is, but I'd
Speaker 3: like to see the biggest names who are available be
Speaker 3: able to play. And I think that's what this game
Speaker 3: suits should lend itself.
Speaker 4: To.
Speaker 3: I think, you know, i'd like to see that it'd
Speaker 3: be you know, we're going to try and get everyone
Speaker 3: we possibly can, the biggest names who are currently available
Speaker 3: to come and play, or let's utilize this as Australia
Speaker 3: a game essentially with a sprinkling of Kiwi. So just
Speaker 3: to have real clear direction on what this game is,
Speaker 3: so you know the team's probably going to get released.
Speaker 3: It's great. I mean, the coaching staff's rock solid. I
Speaker 3: was up with Ian Foster up in Japan and he's
Speaker 3: amazing coach, really good Feller, and I think you know,
Speaker 3: ever's involved in that, it's going to get a really
Speaker 3: nice touch of you know, a bit of Australian and
Speaker 3: Kiwi flavor that so no, I would have loved to
Speaker 3: have seen it be Australian New Zealand Barbarians team who's available.
Speaker 3: The trouble is is trying to make it all work
Speaker 3: for people in the calendar how far Like I mentioned
Speaker 3: around the length and the layover between games for some people,
Speaker 3: some guys are coming the back end the season. Maybe
Speaker 3: they don't want to just keep training for another eight
Speaker 3: weeks because it's going to be it's a daunting task
Speaker 3: like I say so, yeah, very interesting. I mean you
Speaker 3: had a bit of a different take on it around the.
Speaker 2: It's just it's well, I guess that notion of best
Speaker 2: player rights because the other thing is New Zealand. New
Speaker 2: Zealand all Blacks have a tour that they're engaged in,
Speaker 2: and also the Maoris. So you sort of down a
Speaker 2: few rungs on the notion of who decides best and
Speaker 2: how you do that or is it or not a development?
Speaker 2: But is it a best of Super Rugby Pacific for instance,
Speaker 2: who are just out of those test squads? And so
Speaker 2: a lot of will hinge on who Joe Schmidt releases
Speaker 2: too is how big is his squad, how much cotton
Speaker 2: waters you put them in? Is that team actually given
Speaker 2: a bit of a prerogative to maybe have a red
Speaker 2: hot crack at the British and Irish lines to soften
Speaker 2: them up as well tactically for a strat I mean,
Speaker 2: let's not forget is three Test series, the biggest three
Speaker 2: Test series that we're going to have outside the World
Speaker 2: Cups landing in twenty twenty seven. We want to win.
Speaker 2: We want to win that, right, so we want to
Speaker 2: sort of climb into this British ice line squad every
Speaker 2: time we get a chance to as well.
Speaker 5: Yeah, of course, I think invitational teams lend itself to
Speaker 5: some superstar status, Like you've got to have those names
Speaker 5: to want to make people everyone's excited about the Lion
Speaker 5: series anyway, you've got these two standalone games that you're
Speaker 5: trying to engage the public in. They need superstars like you,
Speaker 5: to be honest, hoops, And I'm surprised that you didn't.
Speaker 5: Did it make a difference that they took so long
Speaker 5: to announce the coaches and we still got uncertainty over
Speaker 5: who's playing for each team. If they had come to
Speaker 5: you earlier and said this is the coaching team, we
Speaker 5: want you to be involved.
Speaker 6: Could that have suaded you?
Speaker 3: No, simply no, because the common sense of knowing what
Speaker 3: it takes to perform at that level, it's a personal
Speaker 3: decision that goes up, well, I don't think I could
Speaker 3: have performed how I want to perform at that level
Speaker 3: at that time, with the layover, with everything considered at
Speaker 3: this point in my career, it just didn't seem like
Speaker 3: a good decision, you.
Speaker 4: Know, for other players.
Speaker 3: Could it have garnered or snowboard a bit you go,
Speaker 3: oh my god, that guy's playing, that guy's playing, that
Speaker 3: guy's playing. How can I miss out on this? This
Speaker 3: is And that's kind of what happens with Barbarians, you know,
Speaker 3: with the Barbarians matches, you like start to get a
Speaker 3: bit of a snowball on who's putting their hand up
Speaker 3: and you go, geez, I, that's got to be a
Speaker 3: team I've got to be a part of. So, you know,
Speaker 3: maybe that could have been a thing it done earlier,
Speaker 3: but as we know, there's three tests that they got
Speaker 3: to get right, which creates a lot of work. Then
Speaker 3: you've got to try and max out the super games
Speaker 3: and these ones are probably tagged on the end and
Speaker 3: maybe thought of a bit last minute.
Speaker 1: What's the atmosphere or the appetite for it? From your
Speaker 1: experience playing with training with conversing with the Kiwi guys
Speaker 1: that are in Japan, like Richie Muwanga is a name
Speaker 1: that has been mentioned plenty of times. He's got an
Speaker 1: injury which he carried into the final of the Japanese League.
Speaker 1: On the weekend, Peto was on the show and mentioned
Speaker 1: TJ pir N Arashed and Frazell Sewan Stevenson. You know
Speaker 1: three of those guys are all playing in Japan? Is
Speaker 1: there real Is the appetite still there that we've heard
Speaker 1: throughout the year.
Speaker 3: I think the appetites there when you start hearing other
Speaker 3: people are king and when you start hearing other people
Speaker 3: are pulling out, what happens there? Oh he's pulling out. Yeah, Actually,
Speaker 3: I don't want to train faith. We still only get
Speaker 3: myself injured.
Speaker 1: Aaron Smith has reportedly withdrawn himself. That is that going
Speaker 1: to affect someone like a Mwanga? Do you think putting
Speaker 1: his hand up if he's if he's injury free.
Speaker 3: Look, I think all these guys are their own men
Speaker 3: and they'll make the decision that. But can you get
Speaker 3: influenced and is there an element of peer pressure? Yeah,
Speaker 3: like that's what That's what it's about, and particularly those
Speaker 3: type of invitational games, there's got to be an element
Speaker 3: of fun for a player to want.
Speaker 4: To want to come and come and play that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Aaron Smith and I, you know, we're in the same
Speaker 3: team and got along really well, and you know you
Speaker 3: get a chance to play alongside like yeah, hearing a
Speaker 3: Richie mungus Key, Well, yeah, okay, that could be really
Speaker 3: great to play in and then you know some other
Speaker 3: players and you go, I can't miss this game, but
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know where that lands right now.
Speaker 1: Panda, do you reckon? Rugby Australia is getting a little
Speaker 1: nervous because man is injured, Aaron Smith supposedly withdrawn himself
Speaker 1: and that might that might affect other players wanting to
Speaker 1: be involved. And of course also there's the business side
Speaker 1: of it, sorting out insurance, match payments, that sort of stuff.
Speaker 5: Insurance is going to be a big one at cocause
Speaker 5: we're talking about big salaries that the Japanese clubs want
Speaker 5: to be safe from. So essentially the process is going
Speaker 5: to be that RA will approach players, those players will
Speaker 5: have to show interest, and then they've got to go
Speaker 5: to the insurance company to figure out what the value
Speaker 5: is going to be insured for. And you know, Moung
Speaker 5: is highly paid, a lot of these guys are highly paid.
Speaker 6: Then they've got to come back in.
Speaker 5: RA has to agree to pay that insurance some and
Speaker 5: it's like risk verse reward and what's worth it and
Speaker 5: what's not. Now, if you're not getting those guys, as say,
Speaker 5: these games need star power, you've got to be luring
Speaker 5: guys through the gates who not necessarily want to watch
Speaker 5: Australia A. You know, we've still got the franchise games,
Speaker 5: the Super Abia games where you'll get to see that.
Speaker 5: And I think the appealing thing about au n Z
Speaker 5: and the First Nation SPECIFICA game is the prospect of
Speaker 5: some of these greats going around again and giving it
Speaker 5: to the Lions second chances for some of these guys
Speaker 5: you know who would have played in the thirteen series.
Speaker 6: I love that idea.
Speaker 5: And if they're not getting some of those guys coming through,
Speaker 5: we might have this hotch potch game where you know,
Speaker 5: you're essentially just seeing the offcuts of the Wallabies playing,
Speaker 5: which you know you could have run that as an
Speaker 5: Australia A game, And I think that takes away from
Speaker 5: what they initially were trying to do and selling this
Speaker 5: incredible barbarian style of trans Tasman team.
Speaker 6: What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1: Good because you've played obviously for Australia A against the
Speaker 1: lines when they're out here in two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: and if that's where this fixture ended up being, have
Speaker 1: we missed an opportunity, A promotional opportunity, A sales opportunity,
Speaker 1: a ticket revenue opportunity.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's been missed. Yeah, I think the
Speaker 2: concept is sound. I think it's got a lot of attention,
Speaker 2: got a lot of people talking, a lot of people
Speaker 2: leaning into possible team selections and eligibility. And there are
Speaker 2: some there will be some great names and great players
Speaker 2: that play play. You know, we've had to win knocked
Speaker 2: out of us a bit with with Heops respectfully not
Speaker 2: playing and got to say what a decision. Right to
Speaker 2: know yourself as well as that mate. But you know,
Speaker 2: so how do we how do we make sure that
Speaker 2: this this game makes sense. It still makes sense. It's
Speaker 2: also the Australia New Zealand relationship is very important in
Speaker 2: amongst us as well. We are strong rugby partners and
Speaker 2: that needs to be got right for this match because
Speaker 2: that hopefully lays the foundation we mentioned it as well.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what we're looking into the New Zealand
Speaker 2: environment when they've got the British and Ice lines on
Speaker 2: tour in New Zealand to have the reciprocity for this
Speaker 2: match as well. So let's lean in and make sure
Speaker 2: that we get these players across the line from news
Speaker 2: Iland perspective. Who are in Japan. You know, insurances, that's
Speaker 2: just a number. They'll reach it, they'll cover it. It'll
Speaker 2: be no problem. They're going into a very professional environment.
Speaker 2: They're going to well coached environment. To Hoops's point, they'll
Speaker 2: be managed very well. They're going into a world supervised,
Speaker 2: wall thought out environment. Now it's the names. It's the
Speaker 2: names that we're keen to hear. It's not a missed opportunity.
Speaker 2: It's a great opportunity to see what this Australians Zealand
Speaker 2: concept two thousand and one is a long time ago Australia.
Speaker 2: A concept in a Bridge and ice Lines tour is
Speaker 2: not today. Fans consume rugby differently. They want to see
Speaker 2: different types of athletes, they want to have different types
Speaker 2: of access. They want names that they can put on
Speaker 2: social media and feel like they're running on with. And
Speaker 2: that's very different to the environment in two thousand and one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's not forget some of the provincial games in
Speaker 3: years ago. I have been some of the best, like
Speaker 3: because it's just a bunch of guys wanting to absolutely
Speaker 3: tear some heads off Brombi.
Speaker 4: McRae and potentially.
Speaker 3: Like Lines, guys go do I need to just save
Speaker 3: myself to get to that first Test match, and so
Speaker 3: there is going I think to your point, this is
Speaker 3: a week out from game one, Game one number three,
Speaker 3: so it's it is huge and there's huge repercussions for
Speaker 3: teams and players in this the British team's team more
Speaker 3: so than the A and Z and AU and Z
Speaker 3: team rather because I think they're just going to be
Speaker 3: having an enjoyable Saturday night regardless. But point being that,
Speaker 3: it's some big things happening for the Lions team and
Speaker 3: that's just going to create so much story. Imagine if
Speaker 3: they're playing someone they've never heard of, and that's not
Speaker 3: a bad thing because that guy that they've never heard
Speaker 3: of is probably going to have a barnstorm. So's it
Speaker 3: creates all these different stories. Yes, yeah, there's got to
Speaker 3: be names that would be great, but you know, whoever
Speaker 3: they get is going to be interesting.
Speaker 1: It's a bigger deal if the Lions lose that match
Speaker 1: or any of the other tour matches than one of
Speaker 1: those tour sides or provincial sides losing the glow Torch's
Speaker 1: turned on the lines, the coaching, the environment, everything they
Speaker 1: ab the cop it they copped it in two thousand
Speaker 1: and one when they lost to Australia A. They copped
Speaker 1: it in twenty thirteen when they lost to the Brumbies.
Speaker 1: So that's enough impetus, isn't it for like the ozite edside.
Speaker 2: Well, in terms of psyche, you know the squad, you know,
Speaker 2: sort of know that you know. I can only speak
Speaker 2: to my experience when I was lucky enough to be
Speaker 2: in the squad one aware of the results and the
Speaker 2: things happening around the squad itself quarantined in Cops Harbor,
Speaker 2: but really watching every game blowout scores, absolutely, but watching
Speaker 2: players coming together for the first time. British and Ice
Speaker 2: lines squad that are trying to gel and work cohesion.
Speaker 2: They don't have time to have strategy. They were playing
Speaker 2: everything that they were going to play leading into test
Speaker 2: matches on those fields because they need to see them
Speaker 2: working in game conditions. That's the difference Australia. We talked
Speaker 2: about Brits Lstein's got six games leading into it. Is
Speaker 2: that underdoing the Wallerby's I think it's actually giving the
Speaker 2: Willerbies an advantage. They've played whole Super Roguy specific seasons together.
Speaker 2: The majority of that's nucleus. That squad been together for
Speaker 2: two which is what cohesions so important. British nice Lions
Speaker 2: are going to show the wall of is what they're
Speaker 2: trying to get right right up until the first test,
Speaker 2: and they'll have a big library of knowledge to implement.
Speaker 2: You know. I think it's I think it's great. It's great.
Speaker 2: Right You've got these two everyone, and it's so close
Speaker 2: now too, you know, absolutely super specific. We're leaning into
Speaker 2: the finals. But come on the lines, you know, we
Speaker 2: can't wait.
Speaker 1: About the first game three weeks away this Saturday.
Speaker 6: So can I.
Speaker 2: Just can I just say, Hoops? Have I heard that
Speaker 2: you might be available for Classic Waders?
Speaker 4: Well mate, as I said.
Speaker 1: On that point, what did what did playing in Japan
Speaker 1: do for appetite to keep playing well?
Speaker 4: Full transparency.
Speaker 3: I had this moment back end of last year where
Speaker 3: I'm like, could I push through to twenty seven? Give
Speaker 3: my shot itself a shot at well cut at home?
Speaker 3: And the answer was no, pretty quick, like I started
Speaker 3: putting my head back in the darks. Is that you've
Speaker 3: got to put him in, put more weight on, you know,
Speaker 3: and come up against guys who are chomping at the
Speaker 3: bit and I'm not chomping at the bit anymore. And
Speaker 3: the game for someone who you know, ringing wets not
Speaker 3: get making one hundred kilos is hard. And when you're
Speaker 3: all in, that's that's awesome. Like I loved it, loved
Speaker 3: every minute of it. I'm not it's hard to be
Speaker 3: all in. I get a different priorities, my life, all
Speaker 3: those things. So you know, that made the decision for me,
Speaker 3: even though you know, sometimes goog and I was speaking
Speaker 3: on the sideline one game and I'm like, you still
Speaker 3: miss it, and like, obviously Justin's been out of the
Speaker 3: game for a while, and he goes, yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes I just think.
Speaker 4: What what if all the second rollers went down?
Speaker 3: You know, there's no one else And I get it
Speaker 3: because I know that this am Z game is going
Speaker 3: to be on and you're going to have those same feelings.
Speaker 3: And I think that's the great thing about being a
Speaker 3: rugby player, and you know, particularly being close you know.
Speaker 4: To it, you always go what if? What if?
Speaker 6: What if?
Speaker 3: But when you really break it down, and the guys
Speaker 3: that I've spoken to that I've finished, the juice isn't
Speaker 3: worth the squeeze after because the squeeze is hard like,
Speaker 3: you know, it's a hard game and at one point
Speaker 3: you don't even think about that because it's all about
Speaker 3: the goal.
Speaker 5: You know, we don't often hear athletes talk about that
Speaker 5: moment as a competitor. What was the moment you knew
Speaker 5: that you just wasn't in you anymore?
Speaker 4: What was the moment?
Speaker 3: Probably like a Tuesday training just recently and you saw
Speaker 3: from the weekend and you're still saw whereas you know,
Speaker 3: when you're a young young guy, that's Tuesday's your day again,
Speaker 3: You're into it, Monday, you're even feeling good after a
Speaker 3: Saturday game, but when you're just trying to get through.
Speaker 3: And some guys are brilliant at this. They're able to
Speaker 3: get through a Tuesday, get through a Thursday, and then
Speaker 3: just perform on the weekend. But that wasn't me. So
Speaker 3: it does look different for everyone. And so to answer
Speaker 3: your question, I saw on Tuesday, you know, a couple
Speaker 3: of tuesdays.
Speaker 4: It wasn't just one.
Speaker 3: It was over a matter of time and you just
Speaker 3: you know, you've got to clean out a guy who's
Speaker 3: over the ball, and you just don't want to do it.
Speaker 3: And then you know you're getting frustrated him because he's
Speaker 3: stealing the ball at training, but really you've missed your
Speaker 3: mark and it's on you. And then you know you've
Speaker 3: got no one to blame or not blame, but you
Speaker 3: know you've got to be critical of yourself. He's just
Speaker 3: doing what I would have done ten years ago. So yeah,
Speaker 3: it was that moment and then you go, Okay, well
Speaker 3: can I do that for that period of time at
Speaker 3: the level that I know some of the players are
Speaker 3: trying to do it?
Speaker 4: And it's a no.
Speaker 3: So I have a probably a big enough ego to
Speaker 3: realize that I don't want to play poorly, and that's
Speaker 3: you know, like or play not what I think I can.
Speaker 3: If I can't add the value I want to add
Speaker 3: to a team, then I shouldn't play.
Speaker 1: Big enough ego maybe, but that's enough humility too. I
Speaker 1: would say, if you're able to recognize that, well, if
Speaker 1: you're ready for retirement, hoops, and I can tell I
Speaker 1: can tell you right now you're ready for the media
Speaker 1: because you just took a private conversation with Justin Harrison
Speaker 1: put it in the public sphere, So welcome to the media.
Speaker 3: I just wanted every past rugby player to know that
Speaker 3: we all have the feeling you just try to humanize.
Speaker 1: Its practicing that little just in case the Third Test
Speaker 1: rolls around that let's move the conversation on, thanks for
Speaker 1: your honesty and taking us into the last six months
Speaker 1: of yours playing over in Japan. Highly contentious moment from
Speaker 1: the weekend's games Super Rugby specific we know the Crusaders
Speaker 1: beat the Brumbies in Canberra and there was a what
Speaker 1: appeared to be a knock on late in the game
Speaker 1: by sev Reese wasn't called. In the aftermath, the Crusaders
Speaker 1: scored a try. It's been heavily debated on stand Sport
Speaker 1: straight after the game.
Speaker 4: Morgan too was very pointed in his opinion of it.
Speaker 1: It's continued to be debated in the days since that match,
Speaker 1: but it's led me to this question and I think
Speaker 1: it's quite fitting we got hoops on this week is
Speaker 1: should Rugby or Super Rugby the competition maybe look at
Speaker 1: implementing a captain's challenge so that Ryan Lonegan or Alan
Speaker 1: Alati Friday night could have maybe said to the ref
Speaker 1: I want to I want to look at that again.
Speaker 6: I want a second look.
Speaker 1: As someone who captain a lot of footy hoops how
Speaker 1: would you approach or what would you think of implementing
Speaker 1: a captain's challenge.
Speaker 3: I'd love it, and I liken it to cricket. That's
Speaker 3: the DRS works, and that system I think works.
Speaker 4: Why does it work?
Speaker 3: I think, first and foremost, it takes pressure off at
Speaker 3: being a bunker decision or the viewer of the fan going, oh,
Speaker 3: who's a bunker?
Speaker 4: Who's this getting involved?
Speaker 3: This unknown entity out here somewhere interrupting the game again.
Speaker 3: And it gives that ability for the captain to come
Speaker 3: in to reverse the howler, which is what the cricket
Speaker 3: one was. DRS is brought in to reverse that one
Speaker 3: the umpire just completely misses. So I think what that
Speaker 3: will do is it will give more ownership to the official,
Speaker 3: the referee, the man in the middle. And he has
Speaker 3: the hardest job. Like, I don't care what anyone says,
Speaker 3: he has the hardest job. He's going to get scrutinized
Speaker 3: regardless win, lose or draw. Like if he play, if
Speaker 3: he plays, and I say play, but if he officiates
Speaker 3: his best.
Speaker 4: Game, no one's going to say a word about him.
Speaker 4: That's a hard gig, isn't it. Like you want to
Speaker 4: like no one.
Speaker 3: Maybe there'll be one article, pander, would you write an
Speaker 3: article about a ref who really refereed the game?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 6: No, absolutely, but it is the thing. I also like
Speaker 6: this idea.
Speaker 5: Now, Super Rugby's got his concerns because they've done everything
Speaker 5: to speed up the game. They worried that you introduce
Speaker 5: a capitalist challenge, it's going to start slowing things down.
Speaker 5: But if we look at the NRL example, nine out
Speaker 5: of ten challenges fail, and it actually highlights what a
Speaker 5: good job the refs are doing, where players and fans
Speaker 5: feel like they've been done over so many times. I
Speaker 5: don't mind it. If as long as it's you one,
Speaker 5: you get one shot at it. If you fail, you
Speaker 5: lose your challenge, and it does give you an opportunity
Speaker 5: for the Subaru subcases. Now, I am told that there
Speaker 5: is some footage of that incident that hasn't aired that
Speaker 5: appears to show that Reese put it backwards. Now, from
Speaker 5: the naked eye, it looks like a knock on every day,
Speaker 5: But that might also explain why other officials isn't get
Speaker 5: involved in that. But as a concept, I think it
Speaker 5: actually adds to the drama like it has to the NRL,
Speaker 5: while also ensuring that the referee is looked after it.
Speaker 5: I mean, most of the time they get it right.
Speaker 5: They do a great job, and we don't want to
Speaker 5: discourage young people from getting involved taking up a whistle,
Speaker 5: you know, feeling like they're.
Speaker 6: Being targeted every game.
Speaker 5: But I don't see any drama with it being a
Speaker 5: one off challenge and if you get it right, you
Speaker 5: retain your challenge.
Speaker 1: It's a good point you make about Super Rugby's the
Speaker 1: problem for Super Rugby in this space is they're trying
Speaker 1: to speed up the game, which is something you talk
Speaker 1: about a lot good when we think about getting things
Speaker 1: right around head contact or reviewing moments and that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff.
Speaker 6: Is what's the balance?
Speaker 1: But could you maybe treat the last ten minutes of
Speaker 1: a game differently? You know, the bit way basketball does
Speaker 1: or the NFL does, is that that last couple of
Speaker 1: minutes of those those sort of matches can really drag
Speaker 1: out because you've got timeouts and that sort of thing.
Speaker 6: Could you accept the.
Speaker 1: Game in rugby being slowed down and those sort of
Speaker 1: championship minutes for things like this to be reviewed.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the message that any any game that
Speaker 2: isn't fast, isn't a good one is flawed, right, so
Speaker 2: let's remind usselves about that. Static moments, mauls will put
Speaker 2: together scrums a great position over a ball and a ball. Still,
Speaker 2: that's not a fast action, but that's a powerful execution
Speaker 2: of skill in the game of rugby. You're not talking
Speaker 2: about speeding the game up to make everything non static.
Speaker 2: We're talking about the confusion around decisions, and we're talking
Speaker 2: about technology needing to catch up with the game. So
Speaker 2: the last ten minutes, I think elongating the game to
Speaker 2: make it drawn out and to have some sort of
Speaker 2: different rule structure that's inconsistent with the previous seventy minutes
Speaker 2: is probably flawed, but absolutely support the captain's call because
Speaker 2: the other thing it does, Mate, is it empowers the players.
Speaker 2: The captain actually is the captain and the players will console.
Speaker 2: It's a bit like, you know, should we kick for
Speaker 2: touch hoops, we'll go for three points. You know the momentum,
Speaker 2: you know what's going on, you know your troops, and
Speaker 2: you know what Sometimes even if you think it's not
Speaker 2: a knock on, and if your boys ask you to
Speaker 2: make the challenge, the Captain's going to stick them in
Speaker 2: up and say I've got your back. You know, no problem.
Speaker 2: I think that the issue we're going to have is technology.
Speaker 2: We need the technology because just to your point that
Speaker 2: apparently there's footage floating around that shows us not a
Speaker 2: knock on the advantage of the RS and tennis as well,
Speaker 2: is it's indisputable. You know, the line is the line,
Speaker 2: and the technology is caught up and you can see
Speaker 2: the heatprint of the ball and those sorts of things.
Speaker 2: The league is a bit better too. They put a
Speaker 2: lot more resource into their bunker than what super Reguipacific does.
Speaker 2: So I think it's a great it's a great solution
Speaker 2: for involving the crowd, empowering the players, and adding some
Speaker 2: intrigue into the game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the game is completely imperfect that like to talk
Speaker 3: about tennis, You talk about cricket like it's straightforward, like
Speaker 3: so I think, yeah, the balls on the line or
Speaker 3: yeah there was sneak through, it's clear as day, whereas
Speaker 3: rugby is so imperfect.
Speaker 4: So that's why you know, we've got to actually play
Speaker 4: to that as a strength.
Speaker 3: And I think empower the referee that yeah he's going
Speaker 3: to make mistakes like all of us players did, but
Speaker 3: and do all the time, But how do we make
Speaker 3: him get better and better? Well, that's give him the
Speaker 3: ability to make the decision, because if he makes it,
Speaker 3: you know, twenty minutes into the game, no one really talks.
Speaker 3: But like that's your I think, what's so clever about
Speaker 3: your point? You can't just have this last ten minutes
Speaker 3: where everything gets reviewed and everything gets looked at, because
Speaker 3: what if five minutes into the game our team goes
Speaker 3: seven neel down and there was a glaring knock on.
Speaker 3: But you know that's just as important as the last
Speaker 3: ten minutes where they're playing with seven point line. So
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, it's got to be across the
Speaker 3: whole game. I think it is the same. So I
Speaker 3: agree with that. And then we just got to give ownership.
Speaker 3: And I think, how do you give ownership as well?
Speaker 3: You've got to take some things away from the ref
Speaker 3: So I think the report system and I've said this
Speaker 3: for a long time now, but Rugby League has the
Speaker 3: report system down pat up. In Japan, there was a
Speaker 3: real difficulty around you know, you'd go back six seven
Speaker 3: phases for a potential head contact. Game stops, they go,
Speaker 3: referees go away and watch, you know, watch the tape
Speaker 3: is it head contact, yellow card, and then it goes
Speaker 3: all the way back to that point. So I think
Speaker 3: rugby has to be you know, a two phase, maybe
Speaker 3: three phase, I don't know what the number is, but
Speaker 3: two is anything before that can't involve. If there is
Speaker 3: an involvement, gets the word down to the ref on
Speaker 3: report or if it's a knock on hands in the ruck,
Speaker 3: that sort of thing that's just let go, that's on
Speaker 3: the ref. I would like to see that to help
Speaker 3: the ref have more ownership, and then we support the
Speaker 3: refs as we best can, and there's I think there's
Speaker 3: some great ways that we can do that better.
Speaker 1: In there problem though, if you put someone on report
Speaker 1: for something that happens six to seven phases eight phases back,
Speaker 1: but there's no punishment for that act, then someone's kind
Speaker 1: of gotten away with it.
Speaker 2: Call only after one game, after the first game that
Speaker 2: that's introduced, and someone's put on report and sanctioned postgame
Speaker 2: meaningfully if it's if they're guilty, of course, but and
Speaker 2: then every legend, every player will then be on notice
Speaker 2: that in the game you are under scrutiny, and not
Speaker 2: necessarily at the end the scrutiny so yeah, they are.
Speaker 2: But our point is that we don't want to stop
Speaker 2: the game necessarily. Unnecessarily, we want to put trust and
Speaker 2: empowerment in the referee. The whole game is it's a
Speaker 2: violent disagreement, it's a whole The whole game is about
Speaker 2: exposing everyone to a human error. It's about finding a
Speaker 2: fault in skill and making someone make a mistake. So
Speaker 2: to the referee. Every tactic, a lot of strategies are
Speaker 2: about going to the nth part of the law and
Speaker 2: then taking off a few more centimeters to get away
Speaker 2: with see what we can do. We need to empower
Speaker 2: the referees in the TMO and we need to trust
Speaker 2: that relationship. The TMO needs to be able to lean
Speaker 2: into the reference. Say mate, there was a knock on
Speaker 2: two phases ago, maximum two on the twenty two is
Speaker 2: a scrum for X team on the twenty two. Thanks
Speaker 2: for the heads up, no problem. Or there's an incident
Speaker 2: on report inform the captain Michael, you know your number
Speaker 2: six has been on report. After the game, we're going
Speaker 2: to sort it out.
Speaker 3: You got to think, from a player's point of view,
Speaker 3: agree with that one hundred percent. What happens to me
Speaker 3: if I miss six weeks, I miss opportunity to get selected,
Speaker 3: potential match payments. So that's my contract opportunity to get resigned.
Speaker 3: If I'm in a contract year selection, I then give
Speaker 3: the next guy an opportunity to play six games ahead
Speaker 3: of me. Like, the repercussions are massive. So to say
Speaker 3: that the Grand Grand Final would be an interesting one, can.
Speaker 4: I just can you go back and take out Dan
Speaker 4: Carter and in a World Cup final?
Speaker 3: Well maybe you look at that, but you know, I
Speaker 3: think in terms of no one wants to miss time
Speaker 3: and if it's avoidable, which it is avoidable, Like, I
Speaker 3: don't think the system's working at the moment. And we
Speaker 3: saw that in the Forced War Tars game that we
Speaker 3: discussed about it. That's a clear punch thrown and nothing
Speaker 3: was done about it.
Speaker 1: About the fergusly Worn incident, we looked it appeared that
Speaker 1: he punched Nick Dolly.
Speaker 3: So we appeared he did punch Nick Dolly. So okay,
Speaker 3: I loved it. It's great TV, great rugby. You know
Speaker 3: he still can't. You know, the Biff is great, great
Speaker 3: to watch and everything like that. You know, it makes
Speaker 3: makes real enjoyment. But okay, they don't want to do
Speaker 3: anything on the field on report, or would have been.
Speaker 4: Interested what he would have got on report got four
Speaker 4: weeks already have the report system. Because we have the sighting.
Speaker 2: System independent sideing commissions.
Speaker 1: You cannot even get penalized and still be sided. So
Speaker 1: you could effectively not be put on report and still
Speaker 1: be sided. But there appears to be some serious flaws.
Speaker 6: In the siding.
Speaker 5: I'd love to see some explanations that would clear up
Speaker 5: a lot of things With fans. We have a system
Speaker 5: so coaches are clipping up incidents from every game and
Speaker 5: sending it off to the referees' boss in Australia Brendan mckibbon,
Speaker 5: referees boss in New Zealand Chris Pollock every Monday morning.
Speaker 5: They get a bunch of them, sometimes more than thirty,
Speaker 5: and they get explanations and when the guys get it wrong,
Speaker 5: they put their hands up saying, yep, ref got it wrong,
Speaker 5: TMO got it wrong. But it'd be nice to hear
Speaker 5: from those guys going this was the decision making. This
Speaker 5: was why we didn't cite Fergus Lee Warner for a punch.
Speaker 5: It would actually explain and get clarity. A lot of
Speaker 5: fans asking this very question. How can you have one
Speaker 5: game where a bloke gets sent off straight away and
Speaker 5: then another escape sanction altogether. You know, surely they're accountable
Speaker 5: and they can give us an explanation, and they have
Speaker 5: their reasons. It'd be nice to hear those reasons.
Speaker 1: The NRL used to do that. Hoops that used to
Speaker 1: have their GM of Football gram and as we get
Speaker 1: up every Monday afternoon and go through a full list
Speaker 1: of decisions from the weekend, whether they were right or wrong,
Speaker 1: usually the most contentious ones. Do you think rugby super
Speaker 1: rugby could benefit from something like that?
Speaker 3: What was the result of that the NRL did people
Speaker 3: like it? Was it tuned into Did it create extra stories?
Speaker 1: You could create extra stories, more criticated, extra interest because
Speaker 1: it allowed coaches and players to respond, created more talking points,
Speaker 1: more headlines. There was certainly that element to it. Do
Speaker 1: you think there's a benefit from a football point.
Speaker 3: Of view, Well, I hope that more under the lens
Speaker 3: makes everyone better. Players, players get reviewed, you get talked
Speaker 3: about by press after the game. Our performance is put
Speaker 3: on show, coaches, teams performance put on show all the time?
Speaker 4: Why not everyone else? Extra stories?
Speaker 3: But all with the idea that this ecosystem is trying
Speaker 3: to get better. So that's what I think so great
Speaker 3: about the coaches being able to feedback to the referees,
Speaker 3: and the referees love that feedback because they're getting to
Speaker 3: see insight from an imperfect game. You know, what everyone's
Speaker 3: thinking and how they can make it better next time.
Speaker 3: So I mean, you've got to try to find line
Speaker 3: because you open things up to the world of the
Speaker 3: internet and you can get slammed and you know all that.
Speaker 3: You've got to deal with that in a responsible way.
Speaker 3: But there is a responsible way to do it. Maybe
Speaker 3: it's a closed environment. Maybe you know, there's an email
Speaker 3: list sent out or a news to you know, anyone
Speaker 3: who wants to sign up. But I don't think more
Speaker 3: content in more storyline and making it more of a
Speaker 3: drama is.
Speaker 4: Also not a bad thing as well. In terms of
Speaker 4: the game.
Speaker 1: I can hear fans already calling for referee press conferences postmatch.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, maybe, but you can't.
Speaker 6: I'm not endorsing that.
Speaker 2: The other thing is you don't want to continue to litigate,
Speaker 2: you know, singular moments in a game and not have
Speaker 2: the context, interpretation of law, empowerment of referees well, not
Speaker 2: trying to destabilize the referee and the process. I think
Speaker 2: it would be helpful this notion of independent siding commissioners.
Speaker 2: Who are they? You know, who are they? Because because
Speaker 2: to your point, there've been games I've finished having not
Speaker 2: been penalized and nothing's happened, and then realized that an
Speaker 2: independent signing commission has sided you for something that you
Speaker 2: have to then go to a judicial hearing to explain
Speaker 2: when you don't have any context. You don't have any
Speaker 2: except for cold interpretation on the screen and not knowing
Speaker 2: who that person is.
Speaker 3: And also who is that person? Are they a rugby player?
Speaker 6: Well, that's right, what's the criteria?
Speaker 2: How do they select them?
Speaker 3: So there has to be and I think rugby league again,
Speaker 3: has a former rugby player, a rugby league player, you.
Speaker 4: Know, a lawyer, you know, someone else.
Speaker 3: I don't know who it is, but there's a bit
Speaker 3: of a nice spread over who makes that decision. Because
Speaker 3: we've talked about this. There is such thing as a
Speaker 3: rugby accident. And you're playing with a guy that's very
Speaker 3: tall and a guy who's not so tall, and somehow
Speaker 3: you've got to try and play the same game. So
Speaker 3: some things just and at speed that weren't intentional. So
Speaker 3: does that come into the grading of is that an
Speaker 3: eight or a four week suspension or a no suspension
Speaker 3: at all? Because two guys just clearly tried to take
Speaker 3: a ball in the air and the result was bad.
Speaker 3: But that's kind of what happens when you go onto
Speaker 3: the field, like again a collision sport, You're going to
Speaker 3: have some unfortunate events happening, and that doesn't make them okay.
Speaker 3: You know, we don't want to see that stuff, but
Speaker 3: it happens, so you know, how can we And that's
Speaker 3: what makes it fun?
Speaker 4: So how can you balance that?
Speaker 3: And I think that's why you need to If you
Speaker 3: do put a lot of things on report, who is
Speaker 3: on that board becomes extremely important.
Speaker 1: It might be something they have to formalize and employ
Speaker 1: people to sit in that sort of position full time.
Speaker 4: I'm sure we could spend an entire.
Speaker 2: Week just don't tell anyone about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does sound spread out amongst a number of people,
Speaker 1: but I think we can probably discuss this on a
Speaker 1: weeks long show. I do want to move on to
Speaker 1: another topic that's starting to bubble in rugby, as rumors
Speaker 1: of another rebel league this one entitled three sixty. It's
Speaker 1: got backing of some highly influential people including Mike Tindall,
Speaker 1: rugby World Cup winner, part of the Royal family.
Speaker 4: This new rebel league, Panda, Is it genuine?
Speaker 1: Is it something that rugby is that's going to change
Speaker 1: the shape of rugby?
Speaker 5: Well, I don't think so. Look the foundations of the
Speaker 5: idea of sound. They're saying that every club around the
Speaker 5: world is losing money or is barely breaking even that
Speaker 5: is true. We know that rugby, like other sports, is
Speaker 5: not immune from these financial pressures.
Speaker 6: But has any rebel league ever worked?
Speaker 5: You know, in my time covering sport more than twenty years,
Speaker 5: the only one that I can remember working was the
Speaker 5: Indian Premier League, and that's only because it started as
Speaker 5: a rebel idea where they were going to take players
Speaker 5: out of the Indian system and all over the world,
Speaker 5: and then the BCCI got involved and said, well, actually
Speaker 5: we're going to back this. So it only worked because
Speaker 5: it wasn't then a rebel league. It was part of
Speaker 5: the body that owned eighty percent of world's cricket finances.
Speaker 5: Super League in regular league cause was a disaster caused
Speaker 5: untold damage to the game. We've had numerous other rebel
Speaker 5: league ideas. Absolutely, so the biggest red flag in this
Speaker 5: mate is that they don't have the money behind them.
Speaker 5: They're going to players offering contracts and saying, listen, if
Speaker 5: you sign, we will then go to these investors and
Speaker 5: say that we've got you to sign, and then we'll
Speaker 5: give you your contracts, we'll get you your money. So it's
Speaker 5: almost going backwards. Normally you get the funding to start.
Speaker 5: The idea is you're going to get the top three
Speaker 5: hundred and sixty players from around the world to commit
Speaker 5: to this rebel league, give up most likely their test
Speaker 5: status because you would have to be playing in this
Speaker 5: rebel league while the Wallabies or England or other teams
Speaker 5: are playing test matches in those windows.
Speaker 6: I don't know who you're going to.
Speaker 5: Commit to that when you can't come up with the
Speaker 5: money in the first place. So it's flawed from a
Speaker 5: number of instances there, I see it really struggling. And
Speaker 5: the other thing is, while the game is struggling for finances,
Speaker 5: you'd have to have World Rugby backing. I don't think
Speaker 5: that there is enough in the pot from independent investors
Speaker 5: to go we can spend half a billion dollars on
Speaker 5: this league to play and then rival what world rugby's
Speaker 5: got coming in. So yeah, I really don't see it
Speaker 5: getting off.
Speaker 6: The ground hoops.
Speaker 1: From a player's perspective, given you the most recent to
Speaker 1: actually take the field, how big a risk is that
Speaker 1: to sign with something that doesn't have the money but
Speaker 1: is saying if you sign your profile or help us get.
Speaker 3: The money depends where you are. It's all contextural to
Speaker 3: the player. How do you mean, well, if I'm contracted
Speaker 3: to Rugby Australia for the next period of time, how
Speaker 3: can I sign something else?
Speaker 4: Because they're not going to want to release me.
Speaker 3: So there's a you know, we've got people here who
Speaker 3: know the details of contracts better than most and I think,
Speaker 3: you know, it becomes really how could they won't let
Speaker 3: you go? So how can I sign it? So that
Speaker 3: becomes a very real risk because it pisss off your
Speaker 3: actual employer, and then is the money even real? And
Speaker 3: then you know, I think I heard that the international
Speaker 3: window they would allow.
Speaker 4: You to play.
Speaker 6: There's going to be a clash with the Roman champions
Speaker 6: there is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so I mean that's going to be that's
Speaker 3: going to be a tough self.
Speaker 6: For Yeah, so Wallaby would have to go on giving up.
Speaker 1: On the proposed dates would be I think it was
Speaker 1: April to June, and then it would break and then
Speaker 1: it'd come back in August October.
Speaker 3: All so say this, this is this rebel comp wanted
Speaker 3: and by the way, more money for players.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 3: They get me wrong, but look, I just yeah, it's
Speaker 3: a hard one to put yourself in that position. They're
Speaker 3: not going to be able to get the best players
Speaker 3: because they're contracted right now, got to big players coming
Speaker 3: out of contract. They've got a big players at the
Speaker 3: end of their.
Speaker 4: Career or right at the beginning. Is that right?
Speaker 6: Do you think?
Speaker 2: Yeah? You spot on. I think timing and funding are
Speaker 2: the two big rocks. You know you talk about proposed
Speaker 2: all the timing and mechanics of it can be finesse right,
Speaker 2: And where's the risk? Where's your leverage? Where's what does
Speaker 2: it need to stand up? It needs market players? So
Speaker 2: if market players are currently engaged in employment contracts with
Speaker 2: their employer which are binding by the common law, then
Speaker 2: how can you make that work? Make the success with
Speaker 2: IPL is because they made it work around the national
Speaker 2: programs and around the domestic professional program.
Speaker 5: No test player or our plan misses the chance to
Speaker 5: represent Australia.
Speaker 2: There's your precedent. Just because it hasn't worked before, and
Speaker 2: rugby doesn't mean a cantwork. Now we've got we've been
Speaker 2: professional enough to know what we're getting wrong and right.
Speaker 2: We know that commercializing the game is wrong at the
Speaker 2: moment and perhaps is spot on as well. The more
Speaker 2: revenue for players, particularly who the game asks a lot
Speaker 2: of players, and the more that they can monetize that
Speaker 2: experience and that skill setolutely go for it. Don't forget
Speaker 2: also coaches, support staff, marketing jobs that the ecosystem and
Speaker 2: the sport businesses sport. That's a great opportunity for much
Speaker 2: more than just the perception that players are going to
Speaker 2: be mercenary and go and do a cash grab. What
Speaker 2: they're doing is providing an opportunity for a sporting ecosystem
Speaker 2: to be created and for lots of community to enjoy it,
Speaker 2: lots of people to celebrate this thing called sport, you know,
Speaker 2: and let's not forget about that as well.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So timing and funding, timing and funding and these are
Speaker 2: not immovable rocks, you know. Anyone who's been in any
Speaker 2: negotiation in their life that's involved money. It just involves
Speaker 2: getting to the number. So they'll get to the number probably,
Speaker 2: and then they need to get the timing, I think
Speaker 2: is the bigger rock coups. I reckon to keep the
Speaker 2: sanctity of test rugby a lot, you know, because that's
Speaker 2: important for the domestic community. Right Our Test Rugby program
Speaker 2: funds our community, our rugby community, boys and girls that
Speaker 2: are playing rugby on the weekend, funded by the national program.
Speaker 2: We need to have that protected, if.
Speaker 1: I recall correctly, back in your playing days, probably early
Speaker 1: playing days, mid mid nineties, there was a rebel movement.
Speaker 2: What's the whole reason Super rugby is here is and
Speaker 2: Fox was created. World Rebel rugby was the thing that
Speaker 2: was happening. We had signed contracts because they were the
Speaker 2: only contracts given to us at the time. One hundred
Speaker 2: and eighty players from Australia had signed. I met George
Speaker 2: Gregor in a cafe and campus s ign'm a little contract,
Speaker 2: and then spring Box negotiated to cross the floor and
Speaker 2: signed as the current world champions with Fox and News Limited.
Speaker 2: So then after that everyone else went across the other side.
Speaker 1: So were you offered money at that point, so there
Speaker 1: was money behind it there. I feel like this is
Speaker 1: the big sticking point in this latest rebel movement. And well,
Speaker 1: for all, you know, for all genuine intentions they may have,
Speaker 1: or confidence they may have in their business strategy, that's
Speaker 1: a big deal. Like when Super League arose in Rugby League,
Speaker 1: they were offering big money for players to sign live
Speaker 1: golf had big money backing it for players to to
Speaker 1: come away from the PGAs if they don't have money.
Speaker 1: I think their buckleys are really convincing anyone of great
Speaker 1: profile to join this rebel league.
Speaker 4: And why would I watch it as a fan?
Speaker 3: I think that's a big point you got to ask
Speaker 3: with in terms of the game, Like you watch.
Speaker 4: Australia because I'm Australian. I want to see the Wallabies win.
Speaker 3: And that's why World Cup is at the third biggest
Speaker 3: event in the world, because it's patriotic. I go down
Speaker 3: I support mainly my dad played for Manley, Like, so
Speaker 3: does a rebel league have that type of thing, which
Speaker 3: is what rugby's built on, is the community element?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: That would be my challenge to it is you know, okay,
Speaker 3: I know sever reason's talked about Richie Muhanga. You know
Speaker 3: barely you know these guys, some of these players are
Speaker 3: playing and they're going to be in this team.
Speaker 4: Am I gonna watch it like at three o'clock in.
Speaker 3: The morning in Brazil against you know, for a team
Speaker 3: called the I don't know what the would be called, Like,
Speaker 3: I don't know if I would. We've got to remember
Speaker 3: Seven's just you know, is pretty much this style Grand
Speaker 3: Prix style? And what did they lose last year? I
Speaker 3: heard some big figure thirty get dirty.
Speaker 5: And have revamped it so that they've cut it to
Speaker 5: twelve teams and eighteen point tribalism.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, like that's why that and that is patriotic
Speaker 3: that we are supporting Australia there, we are supporting New
Speaker 3: Zealand and all the rest of it. So you know,
Speaker 3: I mean you go down to a man the ringer
Speaker 3: game and that thing you can't get in, and I
Speaker 3: know there's elements of that across the world. I'm interested why,
Speaker 3: you know, why does a rebel league I think everyone
Speaker 3: have their own opinion.
Speaker 4: Why would a rebel league try and pop up?
Speaker 3: And why would this crew try and do it and
Speaker 3: not just try and pump money into.
Speaker 4: You know, an.
Speaker 3: Existing model or how do you make you know, what
Speaker 3: do the EPL teams, the Premier Football League teams make money?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I don't know would half of them? Do half
Speaker 4: of them do?
Speaker 3: Like? You know, could you get a WASPS? Could you
Speaker 3: pump money back into our wasps? Could you pump money
Speaker 3: back into a London Irish? Could that be an EPL?
Speaker 3: Like if that's what they were going for, I don't know.
Speaker 5: Well, they've made the claim that so seven out of
Speaker 5: the ten English clubs are losing money and three are
Speaker 5: barely breaking even.
Speaker 6: But again, is there a window here?
Speaker 5: I mean, if you sign a Wallabies contract, then you've
Speaker 5: got to play super rugby. That's a lot of games,
Speaker 5: and then you introduce this other thing, which could be
Speaker 5: an IPL style of tournament. Is there a window that
Speaker 5: actually fits where a player could make good money for
Speaker 5: a six week stint for one of these new clubs.
Speaker 6: Is it possible to fit it in there? Google hoops?
Speaker 6: I mean, how does that work?
Speaker 2: Borrying continuing on with her, why would this sort of environment.
Speaker 2: One thing that rugby's starting to become very good at
Speaker 2: is cannibalizing itself. All the different governing bodies and clashing seasons,
Speaker 2: competition ladders, and we're trying to get this World Club
Speaker 2: competition off the ground now as a concept. That's a
Speaker 2: great concept that carries fandom through which came the same jersey.
Speaker 2: It solidifies and and validates the competitions they're in as
Speaker 2: the premier club competition. Then it elevates them and drags
Speaker 2: all those people up. So why could you not say
Speaker 2: to these people, mister Mike Tindall, you've clearly got some
Speaker 2: time on your hands, why don't you put your energy
Speaker 2: into actually finding a funding model that supports the World
Speaker 2: Club concept, because that engages existing domestic programs and validates
Speaker 2: national programs as well. There's a window carved out. Everyone's
Speaker 2: got an in principal agreement. How about we do that
Speaker 2: instead of trying to work on this third planet over here.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's something.
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll get Mike Tindall on an inside line and
Speaker 1: we can ask you all those let's kid him. Great
Speaker 1: to have your back in the country and great to
Speaker 1: have you on inside line in person for the first time.
Speaker 1: When we did you have it on a zoom when
Speaker 1: you got a delivery from menu log or something like that.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 1: Panda great to have you back, and Google always good
Speaker 1: to have you. Great cheese gents,