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Speaker 1: Welcome to a massive episode of Insideline. Justin Harrison in

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Speaker 1: the hot seed as usual, Jamie Panduram is back. Good

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Speaker 1: to see you Pandem for the first time this year.

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Speaker 1: Knichi Michael Hooper, are we clapping?

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Speaker 2: I would put.

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Speaker 1: Myself I encouraged on this show. Hook made great to

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Speaker 1: have you back. A little update. How was Japan? I

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Speaker 1: was getting back on the field.

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Speaker 3: Well, if you want to start with getting back on

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Speaker 3: the field, I was so rusty, so I didn't play

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Speaker 3: a game since started November twenty twenty three. Now I

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Speaker 3: played some sevens, but what I learned is, well, when

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Speaker 3: I was playing sevens and going back to fifteen's, how

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Speaker 3: much of a different game that is, Like it is

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Speaker 3: just worlds apart. And my latest touch in rugby was seven.

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Speaker 3: So I knew I was going to play for about

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Speaker 3: a month, so I was in reasonable condition, got back

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Speaker 3: in shape, trained up in Toyota for a week and

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Speaker 3: then played a B game and then the week later

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Speaker 3: I played against Kobe Renses now team up in up

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Speaker 3: in Japan, and I was very underwhelming in my first

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Speaker 3: first outing in eighteen months, like just stuff like you know,

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Speaker 3: ceiling and getting penalized for ceiling over the ball because

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Speaker 3: I'd been in that sevenths role not trying to kill

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Speaker 3: around the breakdown and take out players, you know, rusty

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Speaker 3: in my timing everything like that.

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Speaker 4: So I warmed up and got some decent performances.

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Speaker 3: We struggled as a team up there in Toyota, but

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Speaker 3: in terms of I was really proud of getting back

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Speaker 3: on the field, being competitive, playing you know, and playing

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Speaker 3: around some great players. It was awesome, but more importantly

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Speaker 3: for us as a family in the stage of my career, like,

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Speaker 3: it was so much fun to be up in Japan

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Speaker 3: with the family, two young kids doing something you know

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Speaker 3: that I've never done like that. I mean, last time

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Speaker 3: I went to Japan was was COVID. So yeah, it

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Speaker 3: was a great experience for the family off the field,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, very thankful for that four months now.

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Speaker 1: When I say we, that's a very much universal and

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to include everyone, but we discussed at

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Speaker 1: length whether you're return to fifteen's in the Japanese League

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Speaker 1: would lead to maybe a fairy tale farewell.

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Speaker 4: Fairy tale farewell.

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Speaker 1: I got there in the end in that os en

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Speaker 1: Z side against the Lions in Adelaide on July twelveth

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Speaker 1: Timmy Horne in particular, big fan of the notion. He

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Speaker 1: wanted you to be captain, didn't want anyone else picked

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Speaker 1: who wasn't already playing in Australia, but he was happy

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Speaker 1: to go against his own advice there. But is it

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Speaker 1: done and dusted? You won't be featuring in that game?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Well you know I paid a bit for Tim to

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Speaker 3: give me a so no, I won't be playing in

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Speaker 3: that fixture.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like a great game. It is going to

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Speaker 3: be a great game, really intriguing on a lot of

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Speaker 3: different fronts. We just had a great discussion with it

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Speaker 3: beforehand around how it can look and who's going to

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Speaker 3: play and everything like that.

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Speaker 4: What do I know, I've played the lines before.

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Speaker 3: I know that they're a week out from a three

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Speaker 3: game test series and it's getting pointy on that tour,

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Speaker 3: and you've got probably a fully fit starting team who's

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Speaker 3: going to play against the wallaby Is a week later,

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Speaker 3: chomping at the bit, battle hardened. And I looked at

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Speaker 3: myself and I thought, well, I've had a good time

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Speaker 3: in Japan. They pour a good assay, they make a

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Speaker 3: nice rice ball at the local convenie I'm about eight

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Speaker 3: weeks ten weeks out of being battle hardened in not

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Speaker 3: a test environment, so I'd have to come home now, train,

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Speaker 3: train by myself, maybe try and get a run for Manly,

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Speaker 3: which would have been cool as well, But come up

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Speaker 3: against those guys in a team that you pulled together

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Speaker 3: for a week and as a young guy.

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Speaker 4: Perhaps two years, four years, five years.

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Speaker 3: Six years ago, Oh my god, how good as almost

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Speaker 3: thirty four year old who made a fleeting comeback. No,

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Speaker 3: it didn't sound like a game that would be a

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Speaker 3: fairy tale ending for me. Not that I was ever

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Speaker 3: after a fairy tale ending, but a game that wouldn't

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Speaker 3: give me any different. I've had so lucky with my

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Speaker 3: career and everything like that that I didn't need this

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Speaker 3: to be that type of a moment.

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Speaker 4: So it was an eat decision.

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Speaker 3: I think it'd be great to see, you know, an

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Speaker 3: up and coming player who could come up and play,

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Speaker 3: or you know, someone else who doesn't missus out on

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Speaker 3: the Wallaby squad, or a great New Zealand player to

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Speaker 3: fill that role. I think that's something really exciting for

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Speaker 3: that game. But yeah, no, it wasn't going to be Unfortunately.

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Speaker 2: What do you think the focus should be on that game, mate,

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Speaker 2: because we were talking and you know, now we're on Caral,

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Speaker 2: we'll talk about you know, it seemed to me and

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Speaker 2: both of us agreed that it's a great opportunity to

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Speaker 2: have a marquee game in amongst some high powered provincial

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Speaker 2: games and some high powered test matches, to have a

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Speaker 2: marquee celebratory game about this thing called rugby and the

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Speaker 2: global attraction. Therefore, getting the biggest names possible was one

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Speaker 2: of the discussions, right and then also having a performance

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Speaker 2: factor for player attention or say Pete Sarmono playing in

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Speaker 2: those sorts of games that ad merit, didn't it well.

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Speaker 3: I think Pete Samo's probably in both categories. Yet a

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Speaker 3: guy coming back in Australia but also a household name,

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Speaker 3: has played a lot of Wallaby games and you know,

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Speaker 3: just been a part of a winning team. So even

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Speaker 3: if he wasn't coming back to Australia, can you include him?

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Speaker 3: I would have liked to have seen the absolute and

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Speaker 3: this is the discussion over what best is, but I'd

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Speaker 3: like to see the biggest names who are available be

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Speaker 3: able to play. And I think that's what this game

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Speaker 3: suits should lend itself.

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Speaker 4: To.

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, i'd like to see that it'd

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Speaker 3: be you know, we're going to try and get everyone

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Speaker 3: we possibly can, the biggest names who are currently available

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Speaker 3: to come and play, or let's utilize this as Australia

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Speaker 3: a game essentially with a sprinkling of Kiwi. So just

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Speaker 3: to have real clear direction on what this game is,

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Speaker 3: so you know the team's probably going to get released.

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Speaker 3: It's great. I mean, the coaching staff's rock solid. I

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Speaker 3: was up with Ian Foster up in Japan and he's

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Speaker 3: amazing coach, really good Feller, and I think you know,

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Speaker 3: ever's involved in that, it's going to get a really

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Speaker 3: nice touch of you know, a bit of Australian and

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Speaker 3: Kiwi flavor that so no, I would have loved to

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Speaker 3: have seen it be Australian New Zealand Barbarians team who's available.

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Speaker 3: The trouble is is trying to make it all work

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Speaker 3: for people in the calendar how far Like I mentioned

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Speaker 3: around the length and the layover between games for some people,

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Speaker 3: some guys are coming the back end the season. Maybe

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Speaker 3: they don't want to just keep training for another eight

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Speaker 3: weeks because it's going to be it's a daunting task

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Speaker 3: like I say so, yeah, very interesting. I mean you

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Speaker 3: had a bit of a different take on it around the.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's well, I guess that notion of best

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Speaker 2: player rights because the other thing is New Zealand. New

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Speaker 2: Zealand all Blacks have a tour that they're engaged in,

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Speaker 2: and also the Maoris. So you sort of down a

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Speaker 2: few rungs on the notion of who decides best and

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Speaker 2: how you do that or is it or not a development?

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Speaker 2: But is it a best of Super Rugby Pacific for instance,

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Speaker 2: who are just out of those test squads? And so

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Speaker 2: a lot of will hinge on who Joe Schmidt releases

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Speaker 2: too is how big is his squad, how much cotton

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Speaker 2: waters you put them in? Is that team actually given

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Speaker 2: a bit of a prerogative to maybe have a red

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Speaker 2: hot crack at the British and Irish lines to soften

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Speaker 2: them up as well tactically for a strat I mean,

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Speaker 2: let's not forget is three Test series, the biggest three

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Speaker 2: Test series that we're going to have outside the World

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Speaker 2: Cups landing in twenty twenty seven. We want to win.

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Speaker 2: We want to win that, right, so we want to

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Speaker 2: sort of climb into this British ice line squad every

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Speaker 2: time we get a chance to as well.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, of course, I think invitational teams lend itself to

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Speaker 5: some superstar status, Like you've got to have those names

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Speaker 5: to want to make people everyone's excited about the Lion

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Speaker 5: series anyway, you've got these two standalone games that you're

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Speaker 5: trying to engage the public in. They need superstars like you,

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Speaker 5: to be honest, hoops, And I'm surprised that you didn't.

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Speaker 5: Did it make a difference that they took so long

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Speaker 5: to announce the coaches and we still got uncertainty over

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Speaker 5: who's playing for each team. If they had come to

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Speaker 5: you earlier and said this is the coaching team, we

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Speaker 5: want you to be involved.

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Speaker 6: Could that have suaded you?

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Speaker 3: No, simply no, because the common sense of knowing what

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Speaker 3: it takes to perform at that level, it's a personal

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Speaker 3: decision that goes up, well, I don't think I could

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Speaker 3: have performed how I want to perform at that level

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Speaker 3: at that time, with the layover, with everything considered at

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Speaker 3: this point in my career, it just didn't seem like

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Speaker 3: a good decision, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, for other players.

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Speaker 3: Could it have garnered or snowboard a bit you go,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, that guy's playing, that guy's playing, that

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Speaker 3: guy's playing. How can I miss out on this? This

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Speaker 3: is And that's kind of what happens with Barbarians, you know,

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Speaker 3: with the Barbarians matches, you like start to get a

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Speaker 3: bit of a snowball on who's putting their hand up

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Speaker 3: and you go, geez, I, that's got to be a

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Speaker 3: team I've got to be a part of. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe that could have been a thing it done earlier,

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Speaker 3: but as we know, there's three tests that they got

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Speaker 3: to get right, which creates a lot of work. Then

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Speaker 3: you've got to try and max out the super games

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Speaker 3: and these ones are probably tagged on the end and

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Speaker 3: maybe thought of a bit last minute.

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Speaker 1: What's the atmosphere or the appetite for it? From your

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Speaker 1: experience playing with training with conversing with the Kiwi guys

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Speaker 1: that are in Japan, like Richie Muwanga is a name

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Speaker 1: that has been mentioned plenty of times. He's got an

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Speaker 1: injury which he carried into the final of the Japanese League.

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Speaker 1: On the weekend, Peto was on the show and mentioned

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Speaker 1: TJ pir N Arashed and Frazell Sewan Stevenson. You know

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Speaker 1: three of those guys are all playing in Japan? Is

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Speaker 1: there real Is the appetite still there that we've heard

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Speaker 1: throughout the year.

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Speaker 3: I think the appetites there when you start hearing other

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Speaker 3: people are king and when you start hearing other people

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Speaker 3: are pulling out, what happens there? Oh he's pulling out. Yeah, Actually,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to train faith. We still only get

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Speaker 3: myself injured.

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Speaker 1: Aaron Smith has reportedly withdrawn himself. That is that going

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Speaker 1: to affect someone like a Mwanga? Do you think putting

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Speaker 1: his hand up if he's if he's injury free.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think all these guys are their own men

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Speaker 3: and they'll make the decision that. But can you get

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Speaker 3: influenced and is there an element of peer pressure? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like that's what That's what it's about, and particularly those

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Speaker 3: type of invitational games, there's got to be an element

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Speaker 3: of fun for a player to want.

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Speaker 4: To want to come and come and play that. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Aaron Smith and I, you know, we're in the same

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Speaker 3: team and got along really well, and you know you

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Speaker 3: get a chance to play alongside like yeah, hearing a

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Speaker 3: Richie mungus Key, Well, yeah, okay, that could be really

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Speaker 3: great to play in and then you know some other

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Speaker 3: players and you go, I can't miss this game, but

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Speaker 3: you know, I don't know where that lands right now.

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Speaker 1: Panda, do you reckon? Rugby Australia is getting a little

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Speaker 1: nervous because man is injured, Aaron Smith supposedly withdrawn himself

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Speaker 1: and that might that might affect other players wanting to

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Speaker 1: be involved. And of course also there's the business side

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Speaker 1: of it, sorting out insurance, match payments, that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 5: Insurance is going to be a big one at cocause

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Speaker 5: we're talking about big salaries that the Japanese clubs want

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Speaker 5: to be safe from. So essentially the process is going

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Speaker 5: to be that RA will approach players, those players will

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Speaker 5: have to show interest, and then they've got to go

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Speaker 5: to the insurance company to figure out what the value

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Speaker 5: is going to be insured for. And you know, Moung

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Speaker 5: is highly paid, a lot of these guys are highly paid.

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Speaker 6: Then they've got to come back in.

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Speaker 5: RA has to agree to pay that insurance some and

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Speaker 5: it's like risk verse reward and what's worth it and

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Speaker 5: what's not. Now, if you're not getting those guys, as say,

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Speaker 5: these games need star power, you've got to be luring

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Speaker 5: guys through the gates who not necessarily want to watch

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Speaker 5: Australia A. You know, we've still got the franchise games,

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Speaker 5: the Super Abia games where you'll get to see that.

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Speaker 5: And I think the appealing thing about au n Z

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Speaker 5: and the First Nation SPECIFICA game is the prospect of

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Speaker 5: some of these greats going around again and giving it

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Speaker 5: to the Lions second chances for some of these guys

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Speaker 5: you know who would have played in the thirteen series.

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Speaker 6: I love that idea.

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Speaker 5: And if they're not getting some of those guys coming through,

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Speaker 5: we might have this hotch potch game where you know,

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Speaker 5: you're essentially just seeing the offcuts of the Wallabies playing,

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Speaker 5: which you know you could have run that as an

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Speaker 5: Australia A game, And I think that takes away from

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Speaker 5: what they initially were trying to do and selling this

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Speaker 5: incredible barbarian style of trans Tasman team.

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Speaker 6: What are your thoughts on that?

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Speaker 1: Good because you've played obviously for Australia A against the

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Speaker 1: lines when they're out here in two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: and if that's where this fixture ended up being, have

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Speaker 1: we missed an opportunity, A promotional opportunity, A sales opportunity,

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Speaker 1: a ticket revenue opportunity.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's been missed. Yeah, I think the

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Speaker 2: concept is sound. I think it's got a lot of attention,

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Speaker 2: got a lot of people talking, a lot of people

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Speaker 2: leaning into possible team selections and eligibility. And there are

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Speaker 2: some there will be some great names and great players

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Speaker 2: that play play. You know, we've had to win knocked

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Speaker 2: out of us a bit with with Heops respectfully not

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Speaker 2: playing and got to say what a decision. Right to

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Speaker 2: know yourself as well as that mate. But you know,

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Speaker 2: so how do we how do we make sure that

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Speaker 2: this this game makes sense. It still makes sense. It's

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Speaker 2: also the Australia New Zealand relationship is very important in

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Speaker 2: amongst us as well. We are strong rugby partners and

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Speaker 2: that needs to be got right for this match because

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Speaker 2: that hopefully lays the foundation we mentioned it as well.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you what we're looking into the New Zealand

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Speaker 2: environment when they've got the British and Ice lines on

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Speaker 2: tour in New Zealand to have the reciprocity for this

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Speaker 2: match as well. So let's lean in and make sure

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Speaker 2: that we get these players across the line from news

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Speaker 2: Iland perspective. Who are in Japan. You know, insurances, that's

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Speaker 2: just a number. They'll reach it, they'll cover it. It'll

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Speaker 2: be no problem. They're going into a very professional environment.

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Speaker 2: They're going to well coached environment. To Hoops's point, they'll

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Speaker 2: be managed very well. They're going into a world supervised,

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Speaker 2: wall thought out environment. Now it's the names. It's the

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Speaker 2: names that we're keen to hear. It's not a missed opportunity.

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Speaker 2: It's a great opportunity to see what this Australians Zealand

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Speaker 2: concept two thousand and one is a long time ago Australia.

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Speaker 2: A concept in a Bridge and ice Lines tour is

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Speaker 2: not today. Fans consume rugby differently. They want to see

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Speaker 2: different types of athletes, they want to have different types

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Speaker 2: of access. They want names that they can put on

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Speaker 2: social media and feel like they're running on with. And

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Speaker 2: that's very different to the environment in two thousand and one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's not forget some of the provincial games in

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Speaker 3: years ago. I have been some of the best, like

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Speaker 3: because it's just a bunch of guys wanting to absolutely

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Speaker 3: tear some heads off Brombi.

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Speaker 4: McRae and potentially.

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Speaker 3: Like Lines, guys go do I need to just save

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Speaker 3: myself to get to that first Test match, and so

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Speaker 3: there is going I think to your point, this is

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Speaker 3: a week out from game one, Game one number three,

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Speaker 3: so it's it is huge and there's huge repercussions for

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Speaker 3: teams and players in this the British team's team more

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Speaker 3: so than the A and Z and AU and Z

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Speaker 3: team rather because I think they're just going to be

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Speaker 3: having an enjoyable Saturday night regardless. But point being that,

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Speaker 3: it's some big things happening for the Lions team and

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Speaker 3: that's just going to create so much story. Imagine if

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Speaker 3: they're playing someone they've never heard of, and that's not

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Speaker 3: a bad thing because that guy that they've never heard

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Speaker 3: of is probably going to have a barnstorm. So's it

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Speaker 3: creates all these different stories. Yes, yeah, there's got to

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Speaker 3: be names that would be great, but you know, whoever

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Speaker 3: they get is going to be interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's a bigger deal if the Lions lose that match

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Speaker 1: or any of the other tour matches than one of

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Speaker 1: those tour sides or provincial sides losing the glow Torch's

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Speaker 1: turned on the lines, the coaching, the environment, everything they

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Speaker 1: ab the cop it they copped it in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one when they lost to Australia A. They copped

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Speaker 1: it in twenty thirteen when they lost to the Brumbies.

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Speaker 1: So that's enough impetus, isn't it for like the ozite edside.

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Speaker 2: Well, in terms of psyche, you know the squad, you know,

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Speaker 2: sort of know that you know. I can only speak

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Speaker 2: to my experience when I was lucky enough to be

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Speaker 2: in the squad one aware of the results and the

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Speaker 2: things happening around the squad itself quarantined in Cops Harbor,

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Speaker 2: but really watching every game blowout scores, absolutely, but watching

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Speaker 2: players coming together for the first time. British and Ice

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Speaker 2: lines squad that are trying to gel and work cohesion.

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Speaker 2: They don't have time to have strategy. They were playing

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Speaker 2: everything that they were going to play leading into test

337
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Speaker 2: matches on those fields because they need to see them

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Speaker 2: working in game conditions. That's the difference Australia. We talked

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Speaker 2: about Brits Lstein's got six games leading into it. Is

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Speaker 2: that underdoing the Wallerby's I think it's actually giving the

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Speaker 2: Willerbies an advantage. They've played whole Super Roguy specific seasons together.

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Speaker 2: The majority of that's nucleus. That squad been together for

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Speaker 2: two which is what cohesions so important. British nice Lions

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Speaker 2: are going to show the wall of is what they're

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Speaker 2: trying to get right right up until the first test,

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Speaker 2: and they'll have a big library of knowledge to implement.

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Speaker 2: You know. I think it's I think it's great. It's great.

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Speaker 2: Right You've got these two everyone, and it's so close

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Speaker 2: now too, you know, absolutely super specific. We're leaning into

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Speaker 2: the finals. But come on the lines, you know, we

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Speaker 2: can't wait.

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Speaker 1: About the first game three weeks away this Saturday.

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Speaker 6: So can I.

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Speaker 2: Just can I just say, Hoops? Have I heard that

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Speaker 2: you might be available for Classic Waders?

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Speaker 4: Well mate, as I said.

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Speaker 1: On that point, what did what did playing in Japan

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Speaker 1: do for appetite to keep playing well?

359
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Speaker 4: Full transparency.

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Speaker 3: I had this moment back end of last year where

361
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Speaker 3: I'm like, could I push through to twenty seven? Give

362
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Speaker 3: my shot itself a shot at well cut at home?

363
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Speaker 3: And the answer was no, pretty quick, like I started

364
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Speaker 3: putting my head back in the darks. Is that you've

365
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Speaker 3: got to put him in, put more weight on, you know,

366
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Speaker 3: and come up against guys who are chomping at the

367
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Speaker 3: bit and I'm not chomping at the bit anymore. And

368
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Speaker 3: the game for someone who you know, ringing wets not

369
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Speaker 3: get making one hundred kilos is hard. And when you're

370
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Speaker 3: all in, that's that's awesome. Like I loved it, loved

371
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Speaker 3: every minute of it. I'm not it's hard to be

372
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Speaker 3: all in. I get a different priorities, my life, all

373
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Speaker 3: those things. So you know, that made the decision for me,

374
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Speaker 3: even though you know, sometimes goog and I was speaking

375
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Speaker 3: on the sideline one game and I'm like, you still

376
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Speaker 3: miss it, and like, obviously Justin's been out of the

377
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Speaker 3: game for a while, and he goes, yeah, you know,

378
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Speaker 3: sometimes I just think.

379
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Speaker 4: What what if all the second rollers went down?

380
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Speaker 3: You know, there's no one else And I get it

381
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Speaker 3: because I know that this am Z game is going

382
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Speaker 3: to be on and you're going to have those same feelings.

383
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Speaker 3: And I think that's the great thing about being a

384
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Speaker 3: rugby player, and you know, particularly being close you know.

385
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Speaker 4: To it, you always go what if? What if?

386
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Speaker 6: What if?

387
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Speaker 3: But when you really break it down, and the guys

388
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Speaker 3: that I've spoken to that I've finished, the juice isn't

389
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Speaker 3: worth the squeeze after because the squeeze is hard like,

390
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,640
Speaker 3: you know, it's a hard game and at one point

391
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Speaker 3: you don't even think about that because it's all about

392
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Speaker 3: the goal.

393
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Speaker 5: You know, we don't often hear athletes talk about that

394
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Speaker 5: moment as a competitor. What was the moment you knew

395
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Speaker 5: that you just wasn't in you anymore?

396
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Speaker 4: What was the moment?

397
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,920
Speaker 3: Probably like a Tuesday training just recently and you saw

398
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Speaker 3: from the weekend and you're still saw whereas you know,

399
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,560
Speaker 3: when you're a young young guy, that's Tuesday's your day again,

400
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,040
Speaker 3: You're into it, Monday, you're even feeling good after a

401
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,920
Speaker 3: Saturday game, but when you're just trying to get through.

402
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 3: And some guys are brilliant at this. They're able to

403
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Speaker 3: get through a Tuesday, get through a Thursday, and then

404
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,000
Speaker 3: just perform on the weekend. But that wasn't me. So

405
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,440
Speaker 3: it does look different for everyone. And so to answer

406
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Speaker 3: your question, I saw on Tuesday, you know, a couple

407
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Speaker 3: of tuesdays.

408
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Speaker 4: It wasn't just one.

409
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Speaker 3: It was over a matter of time and you just

410
00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,760
Speaker 3: you know, you've got to clean out a guy who's

411
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Speaker 3: over the ball, and you just don't want to do it.

412
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,239
Speaker 3: And then you know you're getting frustrated him because he's

413
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,520
Speaker 3: stealing the ball at training, but really you've missed your

414
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,280
Speaker 3: mark and it's on you. And then you know you've

415
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Speaker 3: got no one to blame or not blame, but you

416
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 3: know you've got to be critical of yourself. He's just

417
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Speaker 3: doing what I would have done ten years ago. So yeah,

418
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Speaker 3: it was that moment and then you go, Okay, well

419
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Speaker 3: can I do that for that period of time at

420
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Speaker 3: the level that I know some of the players are

421
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:25,119
Speaker 3: trying to do it?

422
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Speaker 4: And it's a no.

423
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Speaker 3: So I have a probably a big enough ego to

424
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Speaker 3: realize that I don't want to play poorly, and that's

425
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,560
Speaker 3: you know, like or play not what I think I can.

426
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Speaker 3: If I can't add the value I want to add

427
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Speaker 3: to a team, then I shouldn't play.

428
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,560
Speaker 1: Big enough ego maybe, but that's enough humility too. I

429
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Speaker 1: would say, if you're able to recognize that, well, if

430
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 1: you're ready for retirement, hoops, and I can tell I

431
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,400
Speaker 1: can tell you right now you're ready for the media

432
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,960
Speaker 1: because you just took a private conversation with Justin Harrison

433
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Speaker 1: put it in the public sphere, So welcome to the media.

434
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Speaker 3: I just wanted every past rugby player to know that

435
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 3: we all have the feeling you just try to humanize.

436
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 1: Its practicing that little just in case the Third Test

437
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 1: rolls around that let's move the conversation on, thanks for

438
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 1: your honesty and taking us into the last six months

439
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 1: of yours playing over in Japan. Highly contentious moment from

440
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,120
Speaker 1: the weekend's games Super Rugby specific we know the Crusaders

441
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,159
Speaker 1: beat the Brumbies in Canberra and there was a what

442
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,680
Speaker 1: appeared to be a knock on late in the game

443
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,400
Speaker 1: by sev Reese wasn't called. In the aftermath, the Crusaders

444
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:36,040
Speaker 1: scored a try. It's been heavily debated on stand Sport

445
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:37,880
Speaker 1: straight after the game.

446
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 4: Morgan too was very pointed in his opinion of it.

447
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 1: It's continued to be debated in the days since that match,

448
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,239
Speaker 1: but it's led me to this question and I think

449
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 1: it's quite fitting we got hoops on this week is

450
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 1: should Rugby or Super Rugby the competition maybe look at

451
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 1: implementing a captain's challenge so that Ryan Lonegan or Alan

452
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 1: Alati Friday night could have maybe said to the ref

453
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: I want to I want to look at that again.

454
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 6: I want a second look.

455
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,439
Speaker 1: As someone who captain a lot of footy hoops how

456
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 1: would you approach or what would you think of implementing

457
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 1: a captain's challenge.

458
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 3: I'd love it, and I liken it to cricket. That's

459
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,479
Speaker 3: the DRS works, and that system I think works.

460
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 4: Why does it work?

461
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 3: I think, first and foremost, it takes pressure off at

462
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 3: being a bunker decision or the viewer of the fan going, oh,

463
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:26,399
Speaker 3: who's a bunker?

464
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 4: Who's this getting involved?

465
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 3: This unknown entity out here somewhere interrupting the game again.

466
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,640
Speaker 3: And it gives that ability for the captain to come

467
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,159
Speaker 3: in to reverse the howler, which is what the cricket

468
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 3: one was. DRS is brought in to reverse that one

469
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 3: the umpire just completely misses. So I think what that

470
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 3: will do is it will give more ownership to the official,

471
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 3: the referee, the man in the middle. And he has

472
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 3: the hardest job. Like, I don't care what anyone says,

473
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 3: he has the hardest job. He's going to get scrutinized

474
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 3: regardless win, lose or draw. Like if he play, if

475
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,160
Speaker 3: he plays, and I say play, but if he officiates

476
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 3: his best.

477
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 4: Game, no one's going to say a word about him.

478
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 4: That's a hard gig, isn't it. Like you want to

479
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 4: like no one.

480
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,719
Speaker 3: Maybe there'll be one article, pander, would you write an

481
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 3: article about a ref who really refereed the game?

482
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 4: Well?

483
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 6: No, absolutely, but it is the thing. I also like

484
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 6: this idea.

485
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 5: Now, Super Rugby's got his concerns because they've done everything

486
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 5: to speed up the game. They worried that you introduce

487
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 5: a capitalist challenge, it's going to start slowing things down.

488
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 5: But if we look at the NRL example, nine out

489
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 5: of ten challenges fail, and it actually highlights what a

490
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 5: good job the refs are doing, where players and fans

491
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 5: feel like they've been done over so many times. I

492
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 5: don't mind it. If as long as it's you one,

493
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 5: you get one shot at it. If you fail, you

494
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 5: lose your challenge, and it does give you an opportunity

495
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 5: for the Subaru subcases. Now, I am told that there

496
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 5: is some footage of that incident that hasn't aired that

497
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 5: appears to show that Reese put it backwards. Now, from

498
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 5: the naked eye, it looks like a knock on every day,

499
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 5: But that might also explain why other officials isn't get

500
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 5: involved in that. But as a concept, I think it

501
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 5: actually adds to the drama like it has to the NRL,

502
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 5: while also ensuring that the referee is looked after it.

503
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 5: I mean, most of the time they get it right.

504
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,439
Speaker 5: They do a great job, and we don't want to

505
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 5: discourage young people from getting involved taking up a whistle,

506
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 5: you know, feeling like they're.

507
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 6: Being targeted every game.

508
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 5: But I don't see any drama with it being a

509
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 5: one off challenge and if you get it right, you

510
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 5: retain your challenge.

511
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 1: It's a good point you make about Super Rugby's the

512
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: problem for Super Rugby in this space is they're trying

513
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: to speed up the game, which is something you talk

514
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 1: about a lot good when we think about getting things

515
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 1: right around head contact or reviewing moments and that sort

516
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: of stuff.

517
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 6: Is what's the balance?

518
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 1: But could you maybe treat the last ten minutes of

519
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 1: a game differently? You know, the bit way basketball does

520
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 1: or the NFL does, is that that last couple of

521
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 1: minutes of those those sort of matches can really drag

522
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: out because you've got timeouts and that sort of thing.

523
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 6: Could you accept the.

524
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: Game in rugby being slowed down and those sort of

525
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: championship minutes for things like this to be reviewed.

526
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 2: Well, I think the message that any any game that

527
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 2: isn't fast, isn't a good one is flawed, right, so

528
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 2: let's remind usselves about that. Static moments, mauls will put

529
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 2: together scrums a great position over a ball and a ball. Still,

530
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 2: that's not a fast action, but that's a powerful execution

531
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 2: of skill in the game of rugby. You're not talking

532
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: about speeding the game up to make everything non static.

533
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: We're talking about the confusion around decisions, and we're talking

534
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 2: about technology needing to catch up with the game. So

535
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 2: the last ten minutes, I think elongating the game to

536
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: make it drawn out and to have some sort of

537
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 2: different rule structure that's inconsistent with the previous seventy minutes

538
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 2: is probably flawed, but absolutely support the captain's call because

539
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 2: the other thing it does, Mate, is it empowers the players.

540
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 2: The captain actually is the captain and the players will console.

541
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 2: It's a bit like, you know, should we kick for

542
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 2: touch hoops, we'll go for three points. You know the momentum,

543
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 2: you know what's going on, you know your troops, and

544
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 2: you know what Sometimes even if you think it's not

545
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: a knock on, and if your boys ask you to

546
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: make the challenge, the Captain's going to stick them in

547
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 2: up and say I've got your back. You know, no problem.

548
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 2: I think that the issue we're going to have is technology.

549
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: We need the technology because just to your point that

550
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 2: apparently there's footage floating around that shows us not a

551
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: knock on the advantage of the RS and tennis as well,

552
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: is it's indisputable. You know, the line is the line,

553
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 2: and the technology is caught up and you can see

554
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 2: the heatprint of the ball and those sorts of things.

555
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 2: The league is a bit better too. They put a

556
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 2: lot more resource into their bunker than what super Reguipacific does.

557
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: So I think it's a great it's a great solution

558
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 2: for involving the crowd, empowering the players, and adding some

559
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 2: intrigue into the game.

560
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, the game is completely imperfect that like to talk

561
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,719
Speaker 3: about tennis, You talk about cricket like it's straightforward, like

562
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,879
Speaker 3: so I think, yeah, the balls on the line or

563
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 3: yeah there was sneak through, it's clear as day, whereas

564
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 3: rugby is so imperfect.

565
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 4: So that's why you know, we've got to actually play

566
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 4: to that as a strength.

567
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 3: And I think empower the referee that yeah he's going

568
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 3: to make mistakes like all of us players did, but

569
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 3: and do all the time, But how do we make

570
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 3: him get better and better? Well, that's give him the

571
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 3: ability to make the decision, because if he makes it,

572
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 3: you know, twenty minutes into the game, no one really talks.

573
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 3: But like that's your I think, what's so clever about

574
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 3: your point? You can't just have this last ten minutes

575
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 3: where everything gets reviewed and everything gets looked at, because

576
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: what if five minutes into the game our team goes

577
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 3: seven neel down and there was a glaring knock on.

578
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 3: But you know that's just as important as the last

579
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 3: ten minutes where they're playing with seven point line. So

580
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, it's got to be across the

581
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 3: whole game. I think it is the same. So I

582
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 3: agree with that. And then we just got to give ownership.

583
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 3: And I think, how do you give ownership as well?

584
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 3: You've got to take some things away from the ref

585
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 3: So I think the report system and I've said this

586
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 3: for a long time now, but Rugby League has the

587
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 3: report system down pat up. In Japan, there was a

588
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 3: real difficulty around you know, you'd go back six seven

589
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 3: phases for a potential head contact. Game stops, they go,

590
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 3: referees go away and watch, you know, watch the tape

591
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 3: is it head contact, yellow card, and then it goes

592
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 3: all the way back to that point. So I think

593
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 3: rugby has to be you know, a two phase, maybe

594
00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: three phase, I don't know what the number is, but

595
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 3: two is anything before that can't involve. If there is

596
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 3: an involvement, gets the word down to the ref on

597
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 3: report or if it's a knock on hands in the ruck,

598
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 3: that sort of thing that's just let go, that's on

599
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 3: the ref. I would like to see that to help

600
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 3: the ref have more ownership, and then we support the

601
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: refs as we best can, and there's I think there's

602
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 3: some great ways that we can do that better.

603
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: In there problem though, if you put someone on report

604
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: for something that happens six to seven phases eight phases back,

605
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: but there's no punishment for that act, then someone's kind

606
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: of gotten away with it.

607
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 2: Call only after one game, after the first game that

608
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: that's introduced, and someone's put on report and sanctioned postgame

609
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: meaningfully if it's if they're guilty, of course, but and

610
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: then every legend, every player will then be on notice

611
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: that in the game you are under scrutiny, and not

612
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: necessarily at the end the scrutiny so yeah, they are.

613
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: But our point is that we don't want to stop

614
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 2: the game necessarily. Unnecessarily, we want to put trust and

615
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: empowerment in the referee. The whole game is it's a

616
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 2: violent disagreement, it's a whole The whole game is about

617
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 2: exposing everyone to a human error. It's about finding a

618
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 2: fault in skill and making someone make a mistake. So

619
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 2: to the referee. Every tactic, a lot of strategies are

620
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 2: about going to the nth part of the law and

621
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: then taking off a few more centimeters to get away

622
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: with see what we can do. We need to empower

623
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 2: the referees in the TMO and we need to trust

624
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: that relationship. The TMO needs to be able to lean

625
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: into the reference. Say mate, there was a knock on

626
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 2: two phases ago, maximum two on the twenty two is

627
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: a scrum for X team on the twenty two. Thanks

628
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 2: for the heads up, no problem. Or there's an incident

629
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: on report inform the captain Michael, you know your number

630
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 2: six has been on report. After the game, we're going

631
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: to sort it out.

632
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 3: You got to think, from a player's point of view,

633
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 3: agree with that one hundred percent. What happens to me

634
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 3: if I miss six weeks, I miss opportunity to get selected,

635
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 3: potential match payments. So that's my contract opportunity to get resigned.

636
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: If I'm in a contract year selection, I then give

637
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 3: the next guy an opportunity to play six games ahead

638
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 3: of me. Like, the repercussions are massive. So to say

639
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 3: that the Grand Grand Final would be an interesting one, can.

640
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 4: I just can you go back and take out Dan

641
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 4: Carter and in a World Cup final?

642
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 3: Well maybe you look at that, but you know, I

643
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: think in terms of no one wants to miss time

644
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 3: and if it's avoidable, which it is avoidable, Like, I

645
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,239
Speaker 3: don't think the system's working at the moment. And we

646
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 3: saw that in the Forced War Tars game that we

647
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 3: discussed about it. That's a clear punch thrown and nothing

648
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 3: was done about it.

649
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: About the fergusly Worn incident, we looked it appeared that

650
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: he punched Nick Dolly.

651
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 3: So we appeared he did punch Nick Dolly. So okay,

652
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 3: I loved it. It's great TV, great rugby. You know

653
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: he still can't. You know, the Biff is great, great

654
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 3: to watch and everything like that. You know, it makes

655
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: makes real enjoyment. But okay, they don't want to do

656
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: anything on the field on report, or would have been.

657
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 4: Interested what he would have got on report got four

658
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 4: weeks already have the report system. Because we have the sighting.

659
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: System independent sideing commissions.

660
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: You cannot even get penalized and still be sided. So

661
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: you could effectively not be put on report and still

662
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: be sided. But there appears to be some serious flaws.

663
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 6: In the siding.

664
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 5: I'd love to see some explanations that would clear up

665
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 5: a lot of things With fans. We have a system

666
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 5: so coaches are clipping up incidents from every game and

667
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 5: sending it off to the referees' boss in Australia Brendan mckibbon,

668
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 5: referees boss in New Zealand Chris Pollock every Monday morning.

669
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 5: They get a bunch of them, sometimes more than thirty,

670
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 5: and they get explanations and when the guys get it wrong,

671
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 5: they put their hands up saying, yep, ref got it wrong,

672
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 5: TMO got it wrong. But it'd be nice to hear

673
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 5: from those guys going this was the decision making. This

674
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 5: was why we didn't cite Fergus Lee Warner for a punch.

675
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 5: It would actually explain and get clarity. A lot of

676
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 5: fans asking this very question. How can you have one

677
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 5: game where a bloke gets sent off straight away and

678
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 5: then another escape sanction altogether. You know, surely they're accountable

679
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 5: and they can give us an explanation, and they have

680
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 5: their reasons. It'd be nice to hear those reasons.

681
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: The NRL used to do that. Hoops that used to

682
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: have their GM of Football gram and as we get

683
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: up every Monday afternoon and go through a full list

684
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: of decisions from the weekend, whether they were right or wrong,

685
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: usually the most contentious ones. Do you think rugby super

686
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: rugby could benefit from something like that?

687
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: What was the result of that the NRL did people

688
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 3: like it? Was it tuned into Did it create extra stories?

689
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: You could create extra stories, more criticated, extra interest because

690
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 1: it allowed coaches and players to respond, created more talking points,

691
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: more headlines. There was certainly that element to it. Do

692
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: you think there's a benefit from a football point.

693
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 3: Of view, Well, I hope that more under the lens

694
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 3: makes everyone better. Players, players get reviewed, you get talked

695
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 3: about by press after the game. Our performance is put

696
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 3: on show, coaches, teams performance put on show all the time?

697
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 4: Why not everyone else? Extra stories?

698
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 3: But all with the idea that this ecosystem is trying

699
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 3: to get better. So that's what I think so great

700
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 3: about the coaches being able to feedback to the referees,

701
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 3: and the referees love that feedback because they're getting to

702
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 3: see insight from an imperfect game. You know, what everyone's

703
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 3: thinking and how they can make it better next time.

704
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 3: So I mean, you've got to try to find line

705
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 3: because you open things up to the world of the

706
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 3: internet and you can get slammed and you know all that.

707
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 3: You've got to deal with that in a responsible way.

708
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: But there is a responsible way to do it. Maybe

709
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 3: it's a closed environment. Maybe you know, there's an email

710
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 3: list sent out or a news to you know, anyone

711
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 3: who wants to sign up. But I don't think more

712
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 3: content in more storyline and making it more of a

713
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 3: drama is.

714
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 4: Also not a bad thing as well. In terms of

715
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 4: the game.

716
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: I can hear fans already calling for referee press conferences postmatch.

717
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 2: Well yeah, maybe, but you can't.

718
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 6: I'm not endorsing that.

719
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 2: The other thing is you don't want to continue to litigate,

720
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 2: you know, singular moments in a game and not have

721
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: the context, interpretation of law, empowerment of referees well, not

722
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: trying to destabilize the referee and the process. I think

723
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: it would be helpful this notion of independent siding commissioners.

724
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: Who are they? You know, who are they? Because because

725
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: to your point, there've been games I've finished having not

726
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: been penalized and nothing's happened, and then realized that an

727
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 2: independent signing commission has sided you for something that you

728
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 2: have to then go to a judicial hearing to explain

729
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 2: when you don't have any context. You don't have any

730
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 2: except for cold interpretation on the screen and not knowing

731
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: who that person is.

732
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 3: And also who is that person? Are they a rugby player?

733
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 6: Well, that's right, what's the criteria?

734
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: How do they select them?

735
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 3: So there has to be and I think rugby league again,

736
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 3: has a former rugby player, a rugby league player, you.

737
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 4: Know, a lawyer, you know, someone else.

738
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 3: I don't know who it is, but there's a bit

739
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 3: of a nice spread over who makes that decision. Because

740
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 3: we've talked about this. There is such thing as a

741
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 3: rugby accident. And you're playing with a guy that's very

742
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: tall and a guy who's not so tall, and somehow

743
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 3: you've got to try and play the same game. So

744
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 3: some things just and at speed that weren't intentional. So

745
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 3: does that come into the grading of is that an

746
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 3: eight or a four week suspension or a no suspension

747
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 3: at all? Because two guys just clearly tried to take

748
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 3: a ball in the air and the result was bad.

749
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 3: But that's kind of what happens when you go onto

750
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 3: the field, like again a collision sport, You're going to

751
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 3: have some unfortunate events happening, and that doesn't make them okay.

752
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 3: You know, we don't want to see that stuff, but

753
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 3: it happens, so you know, how can we And that's

754
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:26,959
Speaker 3: what makes it fun?

755
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 4: So how can you balance that?

756
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 3: And I think that's why you need to If you

757
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 3: do put a lot of things on report, who is

758
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 3: on that board becomes extremely important.

759
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: It might be something they have to formalize and employ

760
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: people to sit in that sort of position full time.

761
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 4: I'm sure we could spend an entire.

762
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 2: Week just don't tell anyone about it.

763
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does sound spread out amongst a number of people,

764
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: but I think we can probably discuss this on a

765
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: weeks long show. I do want to move on to

766
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: another topic that's starting to bubble in rugby, as rumors

767
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: of another rebel league this one entitled three sixty. It's

768
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 1: got backing of some highly influential people including Mike Tindall,

769
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 1: rugby World Cup winner, part of the Royal family.

770
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 4: This new rebel league, Panda, Is it genuine?

771
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: Is it something that rugby is that's going to change

772
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: the shape of rugby?

773
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 5: Well, I don't think so. Look the foundations of the

774
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 5: idea of sound. They're saying that every club around the

775
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 5: world is losing money or is barely breaking even that

776
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 5: is true. We know that rugby, like other sports, is

777
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 5: not immune from these financial pressures.

778
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 6: But has any rebel league ever worked?

779
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 5: You know, in my time covering sport more than twenty years,

780
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 5: the only one that I can remember working was the

781
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 5: Indian Premier League, and that's only because it started as

782
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 5: a rebel idea where they were going to take players

783
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 5: out of the Indian system and all over the world,

784
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 5: and then the BCCI got involved and said, well, actually

785
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 5: we're going to back this. So it only worked because

786
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 5: it wasn't then a rebel league. It was part of

787
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 5: the body that owned eighty percent of world's cricket finances.

788
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 5: Super League in regular league cause was a disaster caused

789
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 5: untold damage to the game. We've had numerous other rebel

790
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 5: league ideas. Absolutely, so the biggest red flag in this

791
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 5: mate is that they don't have the money behind them.

792
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 5: They're going to players offering contracts and saying, listen, if

793
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 5: you sign, we will then go to these investors and

794
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 5: say that we've got you to sign, and then we'll

795
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 5: give you your contracts, we'll get you your money. So it's

796
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 5: almost going backwards. Normally you get the funding to start.

797
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 5: The idea is you're going to get the top three

798
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 5: hundred and sixty players from around the world to commit

799
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 5: to this rebel league, give up most likely their test

800
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 5: status because you would have to be playing in this

801
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 5: rebel league while the Wallabies or England or other teams

802
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 5: are playing test matches in those windows.

803
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 6: I don't know who you're going to.

804
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 5: Commit to that when you can't come up with the

805
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 5: money in the first place. So it's flawed from a

806
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 5: number of instances there, I see it really struggling. And

807
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 5: the other thing is, while the game is struggling for finances,

808
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 5: you'd have to have World Rugby backing. I don't think

809
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 5: that there is enough in the pot from independent investors

810
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 5: to go we can spend half a billion dollars on

811
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 5: this league to play and then rival what world rugby's

812
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 5: got coming in. So yeah, I really don't see it

813
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 5: getting off.

814
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 6: The ground hoops.

815
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: From a player's perspective, given you the most recent to

816
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 1: actually take the field, how big a risk is that

817
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: to sign with something that doesn't have the money but

818
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: is saying if you sign your profile or help us get.

819
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 3: The money depends where you are. It's all contextural to

820
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 3: the player. How do you mean, well, if I'm contracted

821
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 3: to Rugby Australia for the next period of time, how

822
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 3: can I sign something else?

823
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 4: Because they're not going to want to release me.

824
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 3: So there's a you know, we've got people here who

825
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 3: know the details of contracts better than most and I think,

826
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 3: you know, it becomes really how could they won't let

827
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 3: you go? So how can I sign it? So that

828
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 3: becomes a very real risk because it pisss off your

829
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 3: actual employer, and then is the money even real? And

830
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 3: then you know, I think I heard that the international

831
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 3: window they would allow.

832
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:14,479
Speaker 4: You to play.

833
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 6: There's going to be a clash with the Roman champions

834
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 6: there is.

835
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so I mean that's going to be that's

836
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 3: going to be a tough self.

837
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 6: For Yeah, so Wallaby would have to go on giving up.

838
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: On the proposed dates would be I think it was

839
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: April to June, and then it would break and then

840
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: it'd come back in August October.

841
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 3: All so say this, this is this rebel comp wanted

842
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 3: and by the way, more money for players.

843
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 4: I love it.

844
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 3: They get me wrong, but look, I just yeah, it's

845
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 3: a hard one to put yourself in that position. They're

846
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 3: not going to be able to get the best players

847
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 3: because they're contracted right now, got to big players coming

848
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 3: out of contract. They've got a big players at the

849
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 3: end of their.

850
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 4: Career or right at the beginning. Is that right?

851
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 6: Do you think?

852
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 2: Yeah? You spot on. I think timing and funding are

853
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: the two big rocks. You know you talk about proposed

854
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: all the timing and mechanics of it can be finesse right,

855
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 2: And where's the risk? Where's your leverage? Where's what does

856
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: it need to stand up? It needs market players? So

857
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 2: if market players are currently engaged in employment contracts with

858
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: their employer which are binding by the common law, then

859
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: how can you make that work? Make the success with

860
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 2: IPL is because they made it work around the national

861
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 2: programs and around the domestic professional program.

862
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 5: No test player or our plan misses the chance to

863
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 5: represent Australia.

864
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 2: There's your precedent. Just because it hasn't worked before, and

865
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 2: rugby doesn't mean a cantwork. Now we've got we've been

866
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,919
Speaker 2: professional enough to know what we're getting wrong and right.

867
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 2: We know that commercializing the game is wrong at the

868
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 2: moment and perhaps is spot on as well. The more

869
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 2: revenue for players, particularly who the game asks a lot

870
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 2: of players, and the more that they can monetize that

871
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 2: experience and that skill setolutely go for it. Don't forget

872
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: also coaches, support staff, marketing jobs that the ecosystem and

873
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 2: the sport businesses sport. That's a great opportunity for much

874
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 2: more than just the perception that players are going to

875
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: be mercenary and go and do a cash grab. What

876
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: they're doing is providing an opportunity for a sporting ecosystem

877
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 2: to be created and for lots of community to enjoy it,

878
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: lots of people to celebrate this thing called sport, you know,

879
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 2: and let's not forget about that as well.

880
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 3: You know.

881
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 2: So timing and funding, timing and funding and these are

882
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,959
Speaker 2: not immovable rocks, you know. Anyone who's been in any

883
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 2: negotiation in their life that's involved money. It just involves

884
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 2: getting to the number. So they'll get to the number probably,

885
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 2: and then they need to get the timing, I think

886
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 2: is the bigger rock coups. I reckon to keep the

887
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: sanctity of test rugby a lot, you know, because that's

888
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: important for the domestic community. Right Our Test Rugby program

889
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 2: funds our community, our rugby community, boys and girls that

890
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 2: are playing rugby on the weekend, funded by the national program.

891
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,879
Speaker 2: We need to have that protected, if.

892
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: I recall correctly, back in your playing days, probably early

893
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 1: playing days, mid mid nineties, there was a rebel movement.

894
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: What's the whole reason Super rugby is here is and

895
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 2: Fox was created. World Rebel rugby was the thing that

896
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 2: was happening. We had signed contracts because they were the

897
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 2: only contracts given to us at the time. One hundred

898
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: and eighty players from Australia had signed. I met George

899
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: Gregor in a cafe and campus s ign'm a little contract,

900
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: and then spring Box negotiated to cross the floor and

901
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 2: signed as the current world champions with Fox and News Limited.

902
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: So then after that everyone else went across the other side.

903
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: So were you offered money at that point, so there

904
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: was money behind it there. I feel like this is

905
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 1: the big sticking point in this latest rebel movement. And well,

906
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: for all, you know, for all genuine intentions they may have,

907
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: or confidence they may have in their business strategy, that's

908
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: a big deal. Like when Super League arose in Rugby League,

909
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: they were offering big money for players to sign live

910
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: golf had big money backing it for players to to

911
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: come away from the PGAs if they don't have money.

912
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: I think their buckleys are really convincing anyone of great

913
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: profile to join this rebel league.

914
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 4: And why would I watch it as a fan?

915
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 3: I think that's a big point you got to ask

916
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 3: with in terms of the game, Like you watch.

917
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 4: Australia because I'm Australian. I want to see the Wallabies win.

918
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 3: And that's why World Cup is at the third biggest

919
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 3: event in the world, because it's patriotic. I go down

920
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 3: I support mainly my dad played for Manley, Like, so

921
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 3: does a rebel league have that type of thing, which

922
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 3: is what rugby's built on, is the community element?

923
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 4: I don't know.

924
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 3: That would be my challenge to it is you know, okay,

925
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 3: I know sever reason's talked about Richie Muhanga. You know

926
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 3: barely you know these guys, some of these players are

927
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 3: playing and they're going to be in this team.

928
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 4: Am I gonna watch it like at three o'clock in.

929
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 3: The morning in Brazil against you know, for a team

930
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 3: called the I don't know what the would be called, Like,

931
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:02,720
Speaker 3: I don't know if I would. We've got to remember

932
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 3: Seven's just you know, is pretty much this style Grand

933
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 3: Prix style? And what did they lose last year? I

934
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 3: heard some big figure thirty get dirty.

935
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 5: And have revamped it so that they've cut it to

936
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 5: twelve teams and eighteen point tribalism.

937
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, like that's why that and that is patriotic

938
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 3: that we are supporting Australia there, we are supporting New

939
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 3: Zealand and all the rest of it. So you know,

940
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 3: I mean you go down to a man the ringer

941
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 3: game and that thing you can't get in, and I

942
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 3: know there's elements of that across the world. I'm interested why,

943
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 3: you know, why does a rebel league I think everyone

944
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 3: have their own opinion.

945
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 4: Why would a rebel league try and pop up?

946
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 3: And why would this crew try and do it and

947
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 3: not just try and pump money into.

948
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 4: You know, an.

949
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 3: Existing model or how do you make you know, what

950
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 3: do the EPL teams, the Premier Football League teams make money?

951
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 4: Yeah? I don't know would half of them? Do half

952
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 4: of them do?

953
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 3: Like? You know, could you get a WASPS? Could you

954
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 3: pump money back into our wasps? Could you pump money

955
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 3: back into a London Irish? Could that be an EPL?

956
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 3: Like if that's what they were going for, I don't know.

957
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 5: Well, they've made the claim that so seven out of

958
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 5: the ten English clubs are losing money and three are

959
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 5: barely breaking even.

960
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 6: But again, is there a window here?

961
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 5: I mean, if you sign a Wallabies contract, then you've

962
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 5: got to play super rugby. That's a lot of games,

963
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 5: and then you introduce this other thing, which could be

964
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 5: an IPL style of tournament. Is there a window that

965
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 5: actually fits where a player could make good money for

966
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 5: a six week stint for one of these new clubs.

967
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,240
Speaker 6: Is it possible to fit it in there? Google hoops?

968
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 6: I mean, how does that work?

969
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 2: Borrying continuing on with her, why would this sort of environment.

970
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: One thing that rugby's starting to become very good at

971
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 2: is cannibalizing itself. All the different governing bodies and clashing seasons,

972
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 2: competition ladders, and we're trying to get this World Club

973
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: competition off the ground now as a concept. That's a

974
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: great concept that carries fandom through which came the same jersey.

975
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 2: It solidifies and and validates the competitions they're in as

976
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 2: the premier club competition. Then it elevates them and drags

977
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 2: all those people up. So why could you not say

978
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: to these people, mister Mike Tindall, you've clearly got some

979
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 2: time on your hands, why don't you put your energy

980
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 2: into actually finding a funding model that supports the World

981
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 2: Club concept, because that engages existing domestic programs and validates

982
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: national programs as well. There's a window carved out. Everyone's

983
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 2: got an in principal agreement. How about we do that

984
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 2: instead of trying to work on this third planet over here.

985
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 2: Maybe that's something.

986
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll get Mike Tindall on an inside line and

987
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 1: we can ask you all those let's kid him. Great

988
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: to have your back in the country and great to

989
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: have you on inside line in person for the first time.

990
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: When we did you have it on a zoom when

991
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: you got a delivery from menu log or something like that.

992
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 4: I think.

993
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: Panda great to have you back, and Google always good

994
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:52,760
Speaker 1: to have you. Great cheese gents,