1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Nine podcasts. 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 2: Under cross examination, Aaron Patterson is asked whether she thought 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 2: she would never have to account for a lie about 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,239 Speaker 2: having cancer because she thought the lunch guests would die, 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 2: to which she replied, that's not true. 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 3: Victoria's mushroom mystery, the mushroom lunch that claimed three lives 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 3: an Australian family's meal is now the center of a 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 3: homicide investigation. For bizarre tragedy now grabbing global headlines, Aaron 9 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 3: Patterson's alleged victims died after eating a family lunch she'd 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 3: serve them at her home. 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 4: I cannot think of another investigation that has generated this 12 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 4: level of media and public interest. 13 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: Four of the guests of that lunch were much loved 14 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 2: members of this church. 15 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: Only one will ever return. 16 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 5: People are feeling very heavy with having lost such wonderful people. 17 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 2: Today, Aaron Patterson remained here inside her home. She's continued 18 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: to plead her innocence. 19 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: In a court room and country. 20 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 6: Victoria. 21 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,919 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson is on trial accused of using deathcat mushrooms 22 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 2: to kill She's pleaded not guilty to murdering three of 23 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 2: her former in laws and attempting to kill a fourth. 24 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: The town's church pastor. 25 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: It's up to the jurors to decide what happened when 26 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: Patterson's loved ones sat down to eat. Aaron Patterson has 27 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 2: begun her cross examination on the witness stand, and she's 28 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 2: been taken through a number of different topics, particularly around cancer, mushrooms, 29 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 2: what her intentions were with this lunch, and why she 30 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 2: invited people to her home. The cross examination began following 31 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 2: two full days of evidence where Aaron Patterson was speaking 32 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 2: with her defense barrister Colin Mandy in the examination in chief, 33 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: and it has now turned to the Crown prosecutor, the 34 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: net Rogers sc to lead off these questions. And she 35 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: really fired a lot of these quite quickly, between different 36 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 2: topics and different times and dates we've seen. 37 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 3: The net Rogers was ready and raring to go this morning. 38 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 3: She rose to her feet and stood behind that left 39 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 3: turn faster than I think I've ever seen anybody. 40 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 7: She had in her hands a number. 41 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 3: Of books and folders and pens and pencils and all 42 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 3: of these types of things when she came into the court, 43 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 3: sitting them down in front of her, and as soon 44 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 3: as she rose to her feet, she took with her 45 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 3: penny one blue binder, and inside that binder, as she 46 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: opened it up, we could see pages and pages of 47 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 3: pages in there which were the notes that she was 48 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 3: using to help direct her questioning of the accused woman. 49 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 3: And one of the major topics we heard about today 50 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 3: during that cross examination was cancer. This is something that 51 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 3: Nannette asked question after question after question about for various 52 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 3: different reasons. 53 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 7: She was trying to track what she said were. 54 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 3: A string of lies that Aaron Patterson told before, during, 55 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 3: and after the lunch when it came to speaking and 56 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 3: having conversations with her friends and family. And one of 57 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 3: the phrases that she used when she was asking Aaron 58 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 3: Patterson about this was this cancer lie, this alleged ploy 59 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 3: to bring the guests together on that lunch to tell 60 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 3: them that she had been diagnosed with cancer. 61 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 7: Penny, But that's not what she said. Happened. 62 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 3: Aaron Patterson said, something very very different actually happened. 63 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, through multiple parts of this questioning, Aaron Patterson 64 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: denied that she had told her lunch guest that she'd 65 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: been diagnosed with cancer. That was the denial she kept 66 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: coming back to, saying, that's incorrect, that's untrue. 67 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: When it was put to her. 68 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: She was asked about in Ian Wilkinson's evidence that he 69 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: had said that she had mentioned a cancer diagnosis at 70 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: this lunch, that she'd talked about a type of scan 71 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: that may have picked up a tumor, and she rebutted that, 72 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: saying that no, she had not told these lunch guests 73 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: she had been diagnosed with cancer. 74 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: What she did agree to was she. 75 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: Wanted the lunch guests to believe that she was going 76 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: to have some cancer treatment. Now this as part of 77 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: this evidence, she was taken back and forth to the 78 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: different text messages she was sending members of the family 79 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 2: at different times, and different things she was saying about 80 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 2: her health and tests she was undergoing. 81 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 3: She was explaining that she quite enjoyed the love and 82 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 3: care that she felt from her family. She really denied 83 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 3: that at that lunch she sat them down for one 84 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 3: reason to tell them that there was cancer, but that 85 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 3: there was any really real discussion at all about how 86 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 3: to prep the kids to break the. 87 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 7: News to them. 88 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 3: And we also heard that Simon Patterson during his evidence 89 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 3: that was something else that was put to the accused today. 90 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 3: In his testimony, he recalled that his father Don Patterson, 91 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 3: the day after the lunch had said to him, yes, 92 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 3: while we were there, there was this conversation about cancer, 93 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 3: possible chemotherapy, possible surgery, and also. 94 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 7: Plans to tell the children. 95 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 3: But when both of those witness testimonies were put to 96 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 3: the accused, she said, no. 97 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 7: That was not her recollection of the conversations at the. 98 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 2: Lunch, and she was asked about conversations that she had 99 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 2: with a child protection worker, Katrina Cripps as well, and 100 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 2: when she was asked around where that she'd been, saying 101 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: that she might have needed some advice on breaking something 102 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: to her children, she said that, well, no, that wasn't 103 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 2: the case. And then there was a part of the 104 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 2: questioning when Nannette Rodgers took Aaron Patterson to what were 105 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 2: described as thumbnails from internet searchers. That's how Aaron Patterson 106 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 2: told them, in her words, some snapshots or screenshots is 107 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 2: what Annannette Rodgers was saying. They were that had been 108 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 2: found on a device belonging to Aaron Patterson. And will 109 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 2: take you through a little bit of this evidence as 110 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 2: it was heard in the courtroom. This is Annette Rodgers 111 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: sc while questioning Aaron Patterson, the accused. 112 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: It's no one's real voice. 113 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 5: This would allow you to tell a more convincing lie 114 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 5: about having cancer. 115 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 4: I mean, theoretically that's true, but that's not what I did. 116 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 5: And you did this in your attempt to present to 117 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 5: your parents in law and Heather Wilkinson and Ian Wilkinson 118 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 5: that you had been medically diagnosed with cancer. Correct or incorrect? 119 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 4: Can you ask that again please? 120 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 5: You sought out this information from the Internet for the 121 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 5: purpose of educating yourself about ovarian and brain cancer symptoms. 122 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 4: I did do that at one point. 123 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 5: Yes, yes, my proposition there's several, but the first is 124 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 5: that would allow you to tell a more convincing lie 125 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 5: about having cancer, correct or incorrect. 126 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 4: That was not why I did it. 127 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 6: Why did you do it? 128 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 4: Because I was concerned that I had a varying cancer. 129 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 4: I was concerned that I had something wrong with my brain. 130 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 5: I suggest that you were educating yourself in an attempt 131 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 5: to present to your parents in law and Heather and 132 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 5: Ian Wilkinson that you had been medically diagnosed with cancer. No, 133 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 5: that's not correct, and you pretended to have a legitimate 134 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 5: reason to speak with them when you organized and held 135 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 5: the lunch at your house on twenty nine July twenty 136 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 5: twenty three. 137 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 4: I didn't give them any reason when I invited them. 138 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 4: I just invited them. 139 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 5: Detective Epping still gave evidence and produced the diary of 140 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 5: Gail Patterson. Can I take you to that please? You 141 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 5: remember him giving that evidence? 142 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 8: I do. 143 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 6: Do you remember the exhibit? I do so. 144 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 5: On Wednesday, twenty eight June twenty twenty three, the entry 145 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 5: appears Aaron Saint Vincent's. 146 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 6: Arm lump it does? 147 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 5: Do you agree that the reference in this diary entry 148 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 5: is a reference to you? It is you told at 149 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 5: least Gail Patterson sometime before twenty eight June twenty twenty three, 150 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 5: that you had a lump in your elbow correct, correct, 151 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 5: And that you had to go to Saint Vincent's Hospital 152 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 5: for an appointment on the twenty eighth of June twenty 153 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 5: twenty three. 154 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 6: Correct. 155 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 5: Correct, And by the use of the phrase Saint Vincent's 156 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 5: you intended to convey Saint Vincent's Hospital in Melbourne. 157 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 6: Correct. 158 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 5: Yes, because there is no Saint Vincent's in Crumborough or 159 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 5: leam Gatha. 160 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 6: Is there. 161 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 4: No, there's not. 162 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 6: You did not have. 163 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 5: A lump in your elbow on the twenty eighth of 164 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 5: June twenty twenty three, that's true. You did not have 165 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 5: an appointment at Saint Vincent's Hospital on twenty eight June 166 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 5: twenty twenty three, did you correct? 167 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 4: No, I didn't. 168 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: When I asked about whether she had used a potential 169 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: cancer diagnosis or health concerns to invite these people to 170 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: her home, Aaron Patterson said no, that that's not the 171 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: reason that she'd asked them to come over, and she 172 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 2: disputed that that is the reason she had told Katrina 173 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: Cripps that this lunch had been held, that child protection worker. 174 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 6: Yeah. 175 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 3: And Nanette Rogers when she was continuing to press Aaron 176 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 3: Patterson really hard on this lie, this cancer con this 177 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 3: cancer lie. Well, you heard the word I suggest a 178 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 3: lot today and a lot of Aaron Patterson's responses were yes, no, disagree, 179 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 3: don't agree, and other times she would give longer responses, 180 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 3: But in this particular one, Aette Rogers said that, you know, 181 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 3: I suggest to you you never thought that this account, 182 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 3: this lie about having cancer, would ever need to come out, 183 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 3: because you thought all the lunch guests would die. 184 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: We'll hear a little bit of that evidence as it 185 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 2: was presented in the courtroom. This is again Aaron Patterson 186 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: and Anette rogers through the evidence. 187 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 5: So to sum up in relation to your so called 188 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 5: cancer diagnosis, your claim to various people that you had 189 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 5: been diagnosed with cancer before the lunch was deliberately false. 190 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 4: Yes or no, I didn't make that claim. 191 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 5: You told this lie. I suggest as part of your 192 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 5: efforts to get the lunch guests and Simon to attend 193 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 5: your lunch correct or incorrect? 194 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 4: Incorrect? 195 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 5: And I suggest to explain why the children were not present. 196 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 5: Correct or incorrect? 197 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 4: Incorrect? 198 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 6: You knew you. 199 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 5: Didn't have cancer, however, correct, that's true, but you needed, 200 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 5: I suggest, to appear to have a good reason to 201 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 5: invite your guests to lunch at your house, because it 202 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 5: was so out of the ordinary for you to do this. 203 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 5: Agree or disagree? 204 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 4: Disagree? 205 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 5: Do you say that it was ordinary for you to 206 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 5: have people over to your house for lunch? 207 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 4: No, it wasn't ordinary, and. 208 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 5: It certainly wasn't ordinary to invite Ian and Hea. 209 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 6: That was it. 210 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: That's true. 211 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 4: They hadn't been for lunch at my house before. 212 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 5: I suggest that you never thought you would have to 213 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 5: account for this lie about having cancer because you thought 214 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:13,839 Speaker 5: that the lunch guests would die. That's not true, and 215 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 5: your lie would never be found out correct or incorrect. 216 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 4: That's not true now. 217 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson also was asked a number of times, sort 218 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: of a number of different ways about mushrooms and particularly 219 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 2: her dehydrator and how she had used that dehydrator to 220 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: dehydrate mushrooms, different things that she had told different people 221 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 2: over the few months in the lead up to this 222 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: lunch and previously. But she was also asked about what 223 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,679 Speaker 2: she had told the police in relation to this particular dehydrator. 224 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 7: As part of this. 225 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 3: The jury were taken through images again more photographs that 226 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 3: we have seen earlier on in the trial, and they 227 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 3: were of the dehydrator. We saw the dehydrator in various 228 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 3: different locations. One was a photograph that the accused agreed 229 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 3: she had taken of the dehydrator after she purchased it 230 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 3: in April twenty twenty three. Does were of the dehydrata 231 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 3: in the tip. Aaron Patterson admits that the day after 232 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 3: she was released from hospital in August twenty twenty three, 233 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 3: she drove to the tip and she got rid of it, 234 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 3: and she was explaining that because she agreed that she lied. 235 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 3: She agreed that she lied to the police. She agreed 236 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 3: that she was afraid that she would be held responsible 237 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 3: when she was disposing of this evidence. And she also 238 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: agreed with Annette Roger's assertions that her fingerprints had been 239 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,839 Speaker 3: found on the dehydrator as well. She didn't deny any 240 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 3: of that, but she did deny knowing that any deathcat 241 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 3: mushrooms could have been prepared in that dehydrator. And she 242 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 3: also said that no stag did she ever intend to pick, dry, 243 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 3: or cook and serve poisonous mushrooms to her lunch guests 244 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 3: using that dehydrata. 245 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll take you again to a little bit of 246 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 2: this evidence now in the lead up to what the 247 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 2: listeners are about to hear. As you heard, Aaron Patterson 248 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 2: does admit it's an agreed fact in this case that 249 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 2: the senior fingerprint expert found that there were three of 250 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 2: her fingerprints, her index, middle and ring fingerprints on the 251 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 2: back of this dehydrator once it was retrieved from the tip. 252 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 2: So both sides of the bar table agree on that. 253 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 2: But as Ahnett Rodgers was taking Aaron Patterson through this 254 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 2: particular part of the questioning, she'd sort of said to her, 255 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 2: do you agree that this is your dehydrator? And the 256 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 2: photos taken from the tip and Aaron Patterson said, well 257 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 2: that she sort of assumed that it was and asked 258 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 2: why that was by Nanette Rogers. Aaron Patterson said, well, 259 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 2: if someone else could have bought a dehydraderl on too, 260 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: I don't know that necessarily, And when that's when Annett Rodgers. 261 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: Really took her back too. Well, you have. 262 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: Agreed, haven't you, to the fact that your fingerprints are 263 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 2: on this particular dehydrator. Let's hear a little bit more 264 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: of what the court heard, not just in relation to 265 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 2: the fingerprints, but the dehydrator itself as part of this 266 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 2: police interview and other things. 267 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: Aaron Patterson says, she told the police. 268 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 5: You agree that they were your fingerprints found on your dehydrator. 269 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 4: Correct. 270 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 5: You took the dehydrator to the transfer station because you'd 271 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 5: been using it to dehydrate mushrooms, hadn't you? Yes, And 272 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 5: not just any old mushrooms, death cat mushrooms in fact, correct. 273 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 4: I didn't know that i'd done. 274 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 5: That, and you knew that they were death cat mushrooms 275 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 5: that you had been dehydrating. 276 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 6: Correct. 277 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 5: I didn't know that, and you were very keen to 278 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 5: dispose of any evidence which might connect you with the 279 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 5: possession of death cat mushrooms. 280 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 4: No, I didn't know they'd been in it. 281 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 5: That's why you rushed out the day after your release 282 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 5: from Munash to get rid of the evidence. 283 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 6: Correct. 284 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 5: No, you lied to police about never owning a dehydrator 285 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 5: because you knew you had used the dehydrator to prepare 286 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 5: death cap mushrooms to include in. 287 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 6: The lunch No. 288 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 4: I didn't know that. 289 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 5: You lied because you knew if you'd told the police 290 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 5: the truth, it would implicate you in the deliberate poisoning 291 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 5: of your four lunch guests. 292 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 6: Correct. 293 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 4: No, No, it's not true. 294 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 5: Now I want to go to the lie you told 295 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 5: police about never dehydrating food Exhibit sixty three. Please in 296 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 5: the record of interview that you participated in on the 297 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 5: fifth of August, Question one six'. One all, right do 298 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 5: you preserve foods or anything like? That, no have you 299 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 5: ever dehydrated food or? Anything, no that was a lie 300 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 5: that you told police about never dehydrating. 301 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 6: Food. 302 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 5: Correct, correct, because of, course you had posted messages in 303 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 5: your chat group. 304 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 6: Earlier in the. 305 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 5: Year, CORRECT i did and told your friends that you 306 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 5: had been dehydrating. 307 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 6: Mushrooms. Correct. 308 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 2: Correct the conversations With facebook friends were brought, up as 309 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 2: we've mentioned a number of times in this part of 310 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: the cross, examination and so was the evidence of some 311 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: of the women who've told the court they became friends 312 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 2: With Aaron patterson through a true Crime facebook group and 313 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: then would have personal chats about various elements of their. 314 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 2: Lives and it was mentioned through this cross examination Particularly 315 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 2: Aaron patterson was taken to what she had said to 316 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 2: Her facebook friends regarding her use of her, dehydrator but 317 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 2: also how she had been using that with the mushrooms 318 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: when it came to preparing food for her. 319 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 3: Children, yeah mushrooms was another main topic of today in 320 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 3: the line of questioning that we, heard And Nanette rogers 321 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 3: was asking whether or Not Aaron patterson had used mushrooms 322 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 3: previously in cooked them in. 323 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 7: Food she, said, yes she. 324 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 3: Had she agreed that, yes she'd use them before in 325 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 3: meals such as muffins for her. Children and that's When 326 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 3: nannette leaned into that little bit and, said, okay, WELL 327 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 3: i suggest to you that you were testing at that, 328 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:33,119 Speaker 3: point testing how you could hide mushrooms in food without anybody. 329 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 3: Noticing and the accused, agreed she, said, yes that's, fair 330 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 3: that's a fair, summary but that wasn't her intention to 331 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 3: do that with any sort of deceit in. Mind it 332 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 3: was more to try and get more vegetables in the 333 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 3: meals for her. 334 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 2: Children, yeah and when we're talking about those particular, mushrooms 335 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 2: we're talking about the dehydrated mushrooms that the court has 336 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 2: Heard Aaron patterson had dried and then basically powdered down 337 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: to put in things like brownies and some of the 338 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 2: other things that you. Mentioned and she said through her 339 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,359 Speaker 2: evidence that she, agreed, yes there had been a conversation 340 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 2: at the hospital in the days after the fatal, lunch 341 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 2: and that she had had a conversation both with her estranged, Husband, 342 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 2: simon but also with the two children in the room 343 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 2: where they were referencing these taste tests regarding. 344 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: Muffins and when she was asked sort. 345 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 2: Of about whether the children knew that those mushrooms were 346 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: in the, Muffins Aaron patterson, said this certainly wasn't the 347 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: first time that the children were finding. Out that they 348 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 2: were just having a. Discussion she said in her evidence 349 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: that she had told the child after they had eaten 350 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 2: a number of these muffins or guess, what surprise were her. 351 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: Words it was a surprise. 352 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 2: That these were the muffins that they most enjoyed actually 353 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: have mushrooms in, them because this particular, child she, says 354 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: doesn't like. Mushrooms, now let's hear a little bit of 355 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 2: as you mentioned What Nanette rodgers was Asking Aaron pattison 356 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 2: about when it came to whether these other forms of 357 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 2: cooking she'd done were. 358 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 5: A test and how did you blitz these mushrooms into a? 359 00:16:58,680 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 5: Powder did you use A. 360 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 4: I THINK i used the. 361 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 5: THERMOMIX i suggest that you were testing to see how 362 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 5: you could hide mushrooms in food without someone. 363 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 6: Noticing. 364 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 4: CORRECT i was seen IF i could put mushrooms into 365 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 4: my kid's. 366 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 6: Food without them. Noticing. Correct, yeah that's. 367 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 4: Fair. 368 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 5: Yep the next screenshot so fun, fact the dehydrator reduces 369 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 5: mushroom mass by ninety. Percent do you Think woollies would 370 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 5: mind IF i brought the dehydrator into their vegetable section 371 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 5: and dry things BEFORE i buy? Them you sent that 372 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 5: message to The facebook user GROUP i did you knew 373 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 5: the dehydrator reduced mushroom mass by ninety percent because you'd 374 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 5: weighed the mushrooms before and after you dehydrated them to 375 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 5: see how it changed their. Mass, CORRECT i. Did did 376 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 5: you research that aspect online or that was your own? 377 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 4: Experiment AND i think that was from my own. 378 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 5: Experiment you were interested in how much mushrooms weighed before 379 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,719 Speaker 5: and after being. Dehydrated, correct that's obvious from this. 380 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 6: Post. 381 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 2: Yes as part of this part of the, Evidence Aaron 382 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: patterson was being shown not just spoken to about messages 383 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 2: that she'd sent Her facebook, friends but shown actual particular 384 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 2: screenshots of these, messages as well as being taken back 385 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,159 Speaker 2: to those photos of the dehydrator and asked whether she 386 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 2: had shared them with these particular. People and, there as we've, 387 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 2: mentioned more of these mushrooms being brought back and forth 388 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 2: in the photos that were being shown to the court 389 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 2: and the questions that were being raised With Aaron patterson 390 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 2: around those particular mushrooms on the dehydrated trays and what 391 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 2: they actually. 392 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 3: Showed this came as the accused woman was asked about 393 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 3: foraging as. Well these were two points that were really put, 394 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 3: together and it started with her being asked about if 395 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 3: you'd ever foraged for mushrooms in That april To july 396 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. Period she said, yes but denied ever 397 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 3: seeking out death cat, varieties and the way this was 398 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 3: asked was, okay but so we've got these photographs now as, 399 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 3: well and we've got these photographs that show mushrooms drying 400 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 3: on trail of a dehydrator at her. Home and she was, asked, 401 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,199 Speaker 3: okay you've said that you, forage but do you agree 402 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 3: that these are death cap mushrooms on these? Trays, now 403 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 3: these are different mushroom mushrooms drying on. Trays earlier we 404 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 3: saw mushrooms that looked more like The woolies pre cut, 405 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:16,920 Speaker 3: variety but these ones were. 406 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 7: Whole you could see them from the. 407 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 3: Top they were almost an orange brown, color And Tom 408 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 3: may had explained that they looked like that they were 409 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: a few days, old And Aaron pattison had agreed as 410 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 3: part of her, evidence but she denied that she ever 411 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 3: deliberately picked death cap, mushrooms even when those questions were 412 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 3: repeatedly put to her By internet. 413 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 7: Rogers are these death cup? Mushrooms do you? AGREE i 414 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 7: suggested to you that they. 415 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 3: Are and then the questioning went a little bit further 416 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 3: penny to other, photographs similar, photographs but this time it 417 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,719 Speaker 3: showed the accused drawing mushrooms on trays that had been 418 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 3: placed on kitchen. 419 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 7: Scales and it was as. 420 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: Part of this element of the questioning That Aaron patterson 421 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 2: was really being asked about what she might have been 422 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 2: doing with those kitchens scales at the time she was 423 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 2: Taken Byneret rodgers to all different photos from the police 424 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 2: search of the home and also from these photos That 425 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 2: Aaron patterson identified as being on her kitchen, bench about 426 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,120 Speaker 2: what she could see on the scales and what those 427 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 2: scales looked, like whether they were her kitchen. Scales and 428 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 2: this is Where Nannette rodgers made a suggestion To Aaron 429 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 2: patterson that again this was another kind of experiment perhaps 430 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 2: these particular photos showed and will let you hear this 431 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 2: evidence as it unfolded in the. Courtroom as part of, 432 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 2: It Aaron patterson is also being asked about the area 433 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 2: Of locke In gippsland and AN i naturalist post regarding 434 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 2: death cap. 435 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 5: Mushrooms, now AS i understand your evidence before the, break 436 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 5: you deny that these are death cap. Mushrooms that's your, 437 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 5: evidence that's. 438 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 4: CORRECT i don't think they. 439 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 5: Are you don't think they are. CORRECT i suggest that 440 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 5: you Saw christine McKenzie's post that she posted ON I 441 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 5: naturalist on Eighteen april twenty twenty three about death cap 442 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 5: mushrooms At. Lock you agree or? DISAGREE i. DISAGREE i 443 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 5: suggest that you then went To lock on twenty Eight 444 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 5: april twenty twenty. 445 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 6: Three do you agree or? 446 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 4: DISAGREE i don't know IF i did go to lock 447 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 4: that day or. 448 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 5: Not i'm going to suggest that you went to lock 449 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 5: on that day to find death cap. Mushrooms agree or, disagree, 450 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 5: disagree and that these mushrooms in this image are the 451 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 5: death cap mushrooms that you found At lock on twenty 452 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 5: Eight april twenty. 453 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 6: Three agree or? Disagree? 454 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 5: DISAGREE i suggest that you were weighing these, mushrooms these 455 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 5: death cap, mushrooms so that you could calculate the weight 456 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 5: required for the administration of a fatal dose for one 457 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 5: person agree or, disagree, disagree and the weight required for 458 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 5: five fatal doses for five. 459 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 6: People agree or disagree. 460 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 2: Disagree we'll be back with more Of Aaron patterson's evidence after. This, 461 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 2: now in another part Of Aaron patterson's, evidence as you've heard, 462 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 2: there she denied that she had been in any way 463 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 2: sort of weighing up these mushrooms to find out what 464 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 2: amount would be something that could cause a person. Harm 465 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 2: but she was asked outwardly By Etnanette rogers whether she 466 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 2: had served her lunch guests these Beef wellingtons and that 467 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 2: she knew that they had death cap mushrooms in. Them 468 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 2: she denied, that and she was asked a second question 469 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 2: Whether Simon, patterson her estranged, husband had come to the 470 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 2: lunch If Nanette rodgers alleged she would have given him 471 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 2: a Beef wellington with death cap mushrooms in it. Intentionally, 472 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 2: Now Aaron patterson replied to, that saying that if it 473 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: had come to the, lunch she would have given him 474 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 2: a Beef, wellington but that it wouldn't have intentionally contained 475 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 2: death cap. Mushrooms, now before we get to the end 476 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 2: of this, Episode Aaron. 477 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: Patterson in the last, episode the listeners. 478 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 2: Heard she hadn't finished her examination in chief with her 479 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 2: defense Barrister Colin, Mandy and this did happen on the 480 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 2: same day that the cross examination. 481 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: Started but it was fairly. 482 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 2: Brief but she was taken through a number of elements 483 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 2: of her evidence that she says and her defense barrassed to, 484 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 2: say are. 485 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 3: Lies, Yeah these were questions that she agreed that she 486 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 3: answered while being questioned by police in a record of, 487 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 3: interview largely around the, dehydrator but also the string of 488 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 3: lies that she told. 489 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 8: Police in the record of the, interview you were asked 490 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 8: some questions about the. Dehydrator i'll just go to the. 491 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 8: Document you were, asked have you ever dehydrated food or? Anything? 492 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 8: Yes and your answer was, No? Yes was that a? 493 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 8: Lie it? Was then question two hundred and sixty. Three 494 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 8: the question ends with these, words what's that in relation 495 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 8: to do you know anything about a dehydrator in your? 496 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 8: House and your answer is, no. Yep and then question 497 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 8: two hundred and sixty, Four, no, okay do you own a? Dehydrator? No? 498 00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 8: No all? 499 00:23:59,720 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 5: Right? 500 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 8: Okay were those? 501 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 5: Lies? 502 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 8: Yes and why did you tell the police those lies 503 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 8: on the fifth Of? August, WELL i. 504 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,959 Speaker 4: Had disposed of it a few days earlier in the 505 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 4: context of thinking that maybe mushrooms That i'd foraged or 506 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 4: the MEAL i prepared was responsible for making people. Sick 507 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 4: and then on The, Saturday detective Epping stall told me 508 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 4: That gail And heather had passed. Away and it was this, 509 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 4: stupid knee jerk reaction to just dig deeper and keep. 510 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 4: LYING i was just scared AND i shouldn't have done. 511 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,959 Speaker 8: It and in relation to foraging for, mushrooms you were 512 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 8: asked some questions in the record of. Interview, Question, okay 513 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 8: is that something you've done in the past foraging for? Mushrooms, 514 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 8: yep and your answer was never, Yes and then question 515 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 8: or anything like, that, never and your answer was. Never 516 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 8: that was a lie, Too. 517 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 4: Yes they were both. 518 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 8: Lies and was that lie told for the same? Reasons. 519 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 3: Yes then she was taken through the prosecution case against. 520 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 3: Her Now mandy laid that, out and then she was 521 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 3: asked to respond to each of those different. 522 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 7: Points and here's a little. 523 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 2: Bit of the specific prosecution case Against Aaron patterson That 524 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 2: Colin mandy sc was taking her, through line by line 525 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 2: and her responses as they were heard in the. 526 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 3: Court, yeah he took her through question, answer question, answer question, 527 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 3: answer very very very. 528 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 7: Quickly and it was right at the very end of his. 529 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 3: Evidence and we could see And At rogers sitting there 530 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 3: on the other side of the lectern ready to get 531 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 3: up and ask. Questions but this was the final thing 532 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 3: That Colin mandy had to do with his. Client after 533 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 3: a couple of days of asking her a lot of, 534 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 3: questions he was quite calm and slow and quietly spoken 535 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 3: in a lot of his. Questions but these were read 536 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 3: very very, quickly and we'll take you through. 537 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 2: Them. 538 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 8: Now did you lie to people when you said you'd 539 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 8: only cooked one batch of mushrooms for the Beef? Wellingtons? 540 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 4: NO i didn't. 541 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 8: Lie were all six of the Beef wellington's the? Same? 542 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 8: Yes were each of the Beef wellingtons on each of 543 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 8: the five plates that you served up the? Same? Yes 544 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 8: did you lie about purchasing dried mushrooms from An asian 545 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 8: grocer in The oakley area Of april twenty twenty? Three? 546 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 8: No did you lie about using those mushrooms from The 547 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 8: asian grocer in the Beef? Wellingtons NO i. Didn't did 548 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 8: you lie about your children eating leftovers of the same 549 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 8: meal that had been served at the? Lunch NO i. 550 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 8: Didn't did you pretend to be sick following the? 551 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 6: Lunch? 552 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 4: NO i. 553 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 2: Didn't the final thing that happened With Aaron patterson and 554 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 2: her defense barrister before the cross examination began was she was, 555 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 2: asked individually in relation to each lunch guest whether she 556 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 2: had any intention. 557 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: To cause them, harm and she said that she. 558 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 2: Didn't she replied no to all of, them and as 559 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 2: it was going through the, names First Donald, patterson Then Gail, 560 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 2: Patterson Heather, Wilkinson Ian, Wilkinson Aaron patterson's voice sounded more 561 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 2: and more, emotional like she was choking up getting out 562 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: these nose that she was saying as she answered these particular, 563 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 2: questions saying to her defense barrister that she did not 564 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 2: want to cause the people harm and that she had 565 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 2: no intention to do. 566 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: That there is one other part. 567 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 2: That will take the listeners to from what has happened 568 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 2: in the, courtroom and that's what the jury has been 569 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 2: told about the length of time this trial is going to. 570 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 2: Take it is now nearly the end of the sixth 571 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 2: week that we are recording. This, initially the jury was 572 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: told this would be around a sixth week, trial but 573 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 2: that has now. 574 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: Changed that has. 575 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 3: Just As Christopher biale didn't want to put a number on, 576 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 3: it he didn't want to put a figure on how 577 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 3: much longer the jury will be, therefore but he wanted 578 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 3: to take them through what the next few weeks could look, 579 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 3: like and it was weeks that he Mentioned. Penny he 580 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 3: said he expects the accused to be on the stand 581 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 3: for another few. Days we have a public holiday coming, 582 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 3: up so the jury won't be sitting on that, day 583 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 3: and then to follow that there could be more evidence 584 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,439 Speaker 3: called once they find out whether or not that's the, 585 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 3: case that could be extra time if that doesn't, Happen, 586 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 3: penny he was explained to the jury that they next 587 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 3: move into the closing submissions from both the prosecution and, 588 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 3: defeat which. 589 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 7: Could take a couple of days. Each he said he 590 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 7: then may need. 591 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 3: Some time the judge himself to finalize what he calls his, 592 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 3: charge that's the directions he essentially gives to the jury 593 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 3: before they go out to consider their. Verdict and he 594 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 3: said after he'd made that decision and the time formulating 595 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 3: that his charge itself would then. 596 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 7: Take a couple of days as. 597 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 3: Well so if we're trying to count numbers as he 598 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 3: was going, along we're looking at another couple of weeks 599 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 3: at this. 600 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 2: Stage, yeah that, certainly as you, said he didn't want 601 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 2: to put an exact figure on, it but he wanted 602 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: the jury to be prepared and to be able to 603 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 2: understand that this is what is starting to happen. 604 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: Toward the end of this. 605 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 2: Trial he also noted that once the jury goes, out he, said, 606 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 2: well then the shoes on the other, foot because it 607 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 2: will be up to them how long they, deliberate he, 608 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 2: said sort, of how's long is a piece of string 609 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 2: in relation to, that and that they can take as 610 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 2: much time as they. 611 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: Need so you AND i. 612 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: Erin we will be remaining in More well for quite 613 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 2: some time to, come and we'll bring the listeners. 614 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: More as we, mentioned there. 615 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 2: Is a public holiday coming up where there won't be 616 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 2: any evidence heard for a couple of days by the. 617 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 2: Court but when we can bring you more of what 618 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 2: has been happening inside the courtroom and this evidence in, detail. 619 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 6: We will. 620 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode Of Say. 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