WEBVTT - Historian Richard Offen, 15 June 2025 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:32.479 This is remember when with Harvey Degan on Perth six pr. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:29.880 Open the door, Richard, open the door and let me in. 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:35.600 Open the door, Richard, rich. 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:38.080 Don't you than that door? 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.600 And he has, and he's sitting opposite me in the studio, Richard. 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.000 Often a very good evening to yourself. 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.280 Good evening to you. And I've got to ask, where 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.520 did you dredge those songs up before? 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:49.760 Then? 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:56.320 They magnificent, magnificently appalling. 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:01.600 Well they were, I think so, yeah, And I did 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.080 say before we played them all that they should constitute 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:06.559 the worst songs people have ever heard. 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:08.880 Yeah, I think you're right there. 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.639 There are some, Seriously, there are some one hit wonders 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:14.440 that are really nice songs, really wonderful. The fact that 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.800 there weren't any not those, Yeah, they weren't, no horrible 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.520 they but there are songs that are nice and we're 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.200 only we're one hit wonders. And they never ever sort 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:28.120 of replicated that with any other songs, but a particular 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:29.440 individual or a group. 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:34.640 I'm thinking of graud Show Marx's famous line as he 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.240 left to parties that I had a marvelous time, but 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:38.000 this was not it. 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:43.040 Indeed, now I know that you have a special topic 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:46.200 tonight to discuss with us, and I do hope that 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:48.400 you deliver that topic with some conviction. 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:49.920 Oh thank you. 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.760 Yes, it's actually this month one hundred and seventy fifth 0:01:54.760 --> 0:02:00.160 anniversary of the first convicts arriving to the West an 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:04.120 Australian penal colony. But before we get into that, can 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:08.320 I put my Royal Western Australian Historical Society hat. 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:10.240 On because something really important coming up. 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:14.399 There is we've got our annual lecture which is on Wednesday, 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:18.440 the second of July six for six thirty pm. And 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.320 I can tell you I've heard this chap speak before. 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:26.120 It's an amazing topic. It's the title is Weaving History 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:31.720 into Filmmaking and it's from the LOGI winning Tracks of Glory, 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.720 which was made by Paul Barron who's a film and 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:40.160 television producer and writer. And I've heard him speak before. 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:44.920 He is fascinating and he has brought history alive with 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.560 these films. And it should be a really good evening 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:50.440 because he's very entertaining as well. 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:51.760 He really is. 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:55.680 So as I say, it's Wednesday, the second of July 0:02:56.280 --> 0:03:01.920 at the UWA Club Auditorium and big booking is essential. 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.640 The cost is forty dollars, but it'll be forty dollars 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:08.840 well spent, I can assure you, and that's for society funds. 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:11.200 And you can. 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:16.079 Book a ticket on our website Historywest dot org dot 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:20.240 au or by phoning the Lovely Leslie in our office 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:24.800 on nine three eight six three eight four one, So 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:29.240 that's nine three eight six three eight four one, and 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:30.359 we'd love to see you there. 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:33.799 And if you didn't quite get that number, kight, he's 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:35.440 got it, so give us a buzzer on one double 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.360 three eight eighty two and one as well. Then yeah'll 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:42.240 probably be what's the capacity of the auditorium well over 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.840 one hundred, so it probably need to because I think 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:46.480 that'll be rush because he is very good. 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:50.800 He is fantastic, he really is. Yeah. 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:55.120 So back to the convicts, and I will speak with convictions. 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:56.000 You say. 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.000 These convicts arrived on the I loved the story and 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.320 we'll go into it later on the first of June 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.720 eighteen fifty. But they actually weren't the first convicts to 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.680 come to the colony. There may have been lots of 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:16.560 others on boats that went round Western Australia, but the 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:21.719 first convicts actually arrived in King George Sound on Christmas 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.520 Day eighteen twenty six, and they were part of a 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:32.839 party of people from New South Wales to come here. 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.240 In the wake of the Napoleonic Wars, which finished in 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:40.320 eighteen fifteen, there were fears that France was going to 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:44.799 lay claim to the western seaboard of Australia, and in 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:48.800 March of eighteen twenty six, Henry Bathurst, the Secretary of 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.599 State for War and the Colonies, sent a letter to 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.520 the Governor of New South Wales and in it he 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:59.720 requested that, if found suitable, a settlement should be a 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:03.080 state bablished in King George Sound. Now several other British 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:08.480 explorers have been there, George Vancouver and Matthew Flinders in particular, 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:13.239 and this was because it was on the shipping route 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:18.920 between Britain and Port Jackson. This prompted Governor what Ralph 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:23.680 Darling to send Major Edmund Lockier to establish a settlement 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:28.360 in the area with twenty troops and twenty three convicts. 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.480 And I think I was searching the other day for it. 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:35.520 I think I read somewhere in total. With the civilians 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:37.919 that were coming here, it was a party of about 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.320 eighty but I might have dreamt that. 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:40.880 I don't know. 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.840 They arrived in King George Sound on Christmas Day. Od 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.160 data to arrive in a place, isn't there. 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:50.159 A bit the shops want to open? 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:55.000 No, I don't think they were actually and the settlement 0:05:55.200 --> 0:06:02.599 was called Fredericktown after King George's son Frederick. They also 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:06.839 bought with them enough domestic animals, food crops and building 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:11.000 materials to start this small and very remote in those 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:15.359 days outpost, and the convict presence was maintained in the 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:19.039 settlement until about November of eighteen thirty so, after the 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:23.320 Swan River Colony had been formed, and at that time 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:29.119 the control of Frederictown was let over to the Swan 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.839 River Colony and the troops and convicts withdrew back to 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:41.480 New South Wales, and so that colony continued. The small 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:46.000 proportion of laborers in the colony meant that everything was slow, 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:54.360 and incidentally Fredericktown Sterling renamed Albany, and so Elbany celebrates 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:58.719 its two hundredth anniversary of its founding next year. Whereas 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:03.080 we have to wait until a nineteen no twenty twenty nine, 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.599 aren't we Yeah, I have to think about it, yep. 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:07.680 That's it. 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.680 So the Swan River Colony had been formed, and for 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.920 the first fifteen years the people of the colony were 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:20.680 generally opposed to the idea of accepting convicts. Even though 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:25.320 there was a very small laboring force here and they 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.560 were making well. There weren't enough of them to make 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:35.600 any significant progress on building infrastructure like roads, bridges, fortresses 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:41.280 or whatever. But the idea of asking the British government 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:47.040 to send convicts was in constant circulation and discussion almost 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.680 from the start of the colony. As early as eighteen 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:56.000 thirty one, permission was requested by a colonial land owner 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:02.240 that three hundred swing rights swing riot. I can't even 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.440 say it convicts, and I haven't had anything to drink. 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:09.680 That's probably the problem. Three hundred swing Riot convicts were 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.200 requested to be brought here but refused. 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:14.760 Now it's interesting the swing. 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:21.640 Riots were widespread uprising in the agri between agricultural workers 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:26.240 back in the UK worried about the mechanization of farming. 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:30.080 And it all began in my neck of the woods, 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.400 down in the Elam Valley in Kent, with the destruction 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:38.280 of a threshing machine. Obviously, before that, laborers had done 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:42.360 the threshing. This destruction was in the summer of eighteen 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:47.320 thirty and by December the riots had spread throughout the 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:53.720 South of England and East Anglia and caused a lot 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:57.480 of problems. And you can see their point. They were 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.640 worried that they were going to lose their jobs. Someone 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:05.920 that lost their freedom. They certainly did, and were sent 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:10.600 to all sorts of places. Even so, the idea of 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:14.760 convicts coming here was discussed at length, and there was 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:19.800 an editorial in the Freemantle Observer promoting the need for 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:21.160 convict labor. 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.120 And George Fletcher Moore, who was. 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:28.439 The Commissioner of the Civil Court in the early days 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:31.760 of the Swan River Colony, wrote in his diary mister Brown, 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.720 that was the colonial secretary called yesterday. He wants me 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:40.200 to sketch a plan for employing prisoners as a working gang, 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.440 the governor being anxious to occupy them in this way 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:50.400 if the settlers will pay for a superintendent. But that 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:55.120 came to nothing, and in eighteen thirty four Captain Frederick 0:09:55.200 --> 0:10:00.200 Irwin of the sixty third Regiment suggested that they the 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:04.920 colony take in some Indian convicts. These would be used 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:09.360 for constructing roads and bridges and things like that, but 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:15.120 yet again that was pushed to one side. Also in 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.640 the same year, there was a meeting of settlers in 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:22.160 King George Sound, Albany, and they passed a motion that 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:27.600 labor was definitely needed. This was for the work of 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:34.280 clearing land around Albany and creating roads, but it was 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:39.680 defeated by the Western Australian Agricultural Society, who didn't like 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:41.040 the idea of convicts. 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:42.040 Now. 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.840 Just a few years later, in eighteen thirty nine, Governor 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:51.520 John Hutt, the second Governor of Western Australia, received a 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:56.760 letter from the Colonial Office in London asking the colony 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:03.120 to accept junior juvenile prisoners. These were young people who 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:08.839 had been first reformed in i quote penitentiaries especially adapted 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:13.520 for the purpose of their education and reformation. After seeking 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:19.679 comment from the agricultural society here, Hutt responded the majority 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.080 of the community would not object to boys above the 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:27.120 age of fifteen, but that the labor market could not 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.839 support more than thirty boys a year, and subsequently two 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:36.360 hundred and thirty four juvenile prisoners were transported here from 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:40.720 Parkhaus Prison. Incidentally, that's now a top security prison on 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.280 the Isle of Wight. They came between eighteen forty two 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:48.200 and eighteen forty nine, but they were classed as apprentices 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.920 here of course, no convict name whatsoever. 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:55.360 And I guess we ought to take a break. 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.480 Caught we I think you need to make you're going great, Gunzi. 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.320 You can take a little sip of your cool clear 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.680 water and we shall be back before you've had a 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:04.480 chance to miss it. 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:11.359 On Perth six PR. This is remember when with Harvey Degan. 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:13.800 And Richard Oftens in the studio with me, he's going 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.040 through the early days of the convicts here, just a 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:20.240 year or two after the settlement of the Swan River 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:24.240 colony and down albany Way. And you may have those 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.240 of you listening out there. You may have direct links 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.840 back to those convicts if you do give us a 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.600 call and have a chat about them. One double three 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:33.680 A to eighty two. Once upon a time you never 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:40.560 flush people out, it was, isn't it. Yeah, desperate to 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:43.520 find a convict in our ancestry. 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:46.440 Now, Just a funny little aside. A friend of mine, 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:48.800 an old teaching colleague of mine back in the UK, 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.839 when he first came to visit us here about ten 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:56.120 years ago. He remarked when he got here that they'd 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.880 given him the green immigration card on the plane to 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:02.439 fill in and he said, there was a question that said, 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.120 have you been convicted of anything? And he said, I 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.280 didn't know. It was still compulsory. 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.240 Lie. That was a great line that was dropped on 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:15.120 immigration by the great cricket commentator John Arlott. 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:17.000 Oh, yes, like that. 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:18.439 You remember from now. 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.360 I'm sure Stathan. 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:24.160 Coming in now from the northern end. And he was brilliant, 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:25.960 He was absolutely brilliant. And they said do you have 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:30.520 any previous conviction? I'm sorry, I didn't realize that was 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.160 still great line. 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.280 So getting back to these apprentices, the lads with the 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.679 best will in the world, you know, fifteen year olds 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.800 weren't going to set the world on fire with their 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.280 skills and knowledge of building roads. 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.079 They'll be on their mobile phones all the time. 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.000 Well of course they would, yes, stupid boy. 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:56.360 And so it didn't help with the severe labor shortage 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:02.400 here and serious lobbying for Western Australia to become a 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.160 penal colony began in eighteen forty four and at that 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:10.360 time the members of the York Agricultural Society and they 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.319 were having the biggest problems because the road from York 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:18.040 to person Fremantle was virtually non existence, dust bowl in summer, 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:22.800 quagmire in winter, and absolutely useless. They brought forward emotion 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.600 stating that it is the opinion of this meeting that 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:31.640 inasmuch as the present land regulations have entirely destroyed our 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:35.600 labor fund, we conceived that the Home Government, that's the 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.840 English government, British government are bound in justice to supply 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:44.480 us with some kind of labor. And after mature deliberations, 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:48.720 we have come to the determination of petitioning the Secretary 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.720 of State for the Colonies for a gang of forty 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:57.560 convicts to be exclusively employed in public works. I just 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.800 love the words that are used. 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.040 We've got a listener wishes to have a chat. Jeff 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:04.200 of Eastvic Parkers John. 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:09.680 Could I Jeff good Harvey? How are you welcome the 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.720 bushranger Moundine. Joe is a relative of mine. 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:18.720 Wow? How is his name? 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:20.920 Was Joseph Bealitho John. 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:24.920 That's right? Yes, from Barry in Wales. 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:31.400 His mother was married Belitho and Belitho is an ancient 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.640 Cornish Homers in the Domestay book. 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:35.200 Yeah it is, yes. 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:37.160 He wasn't a convict though, was he He was a 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:37.760 bush ranger. 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:39.640 No, he was a convict to start. 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:40.240 He was. 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:46.400 Transported here for stealing in I thought a little bit 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.560 about Moondan didn't know that bit, and he. 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.880 Kept gaping from Frio, so they built him a special 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:54.200 cell so he couldn't get out. 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:54.920 That's right. 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.080 Yes, he was the Houdini of the nineteenth century in 0:15:58.120 --> 0:15:59.120 Western Australia. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:00.400 There's no doubt out it. 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:06.600 So my surname is Blitho bl igh O and his 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:08.200 mother's name was Blo. 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.720 That was too fantastic. Cool. 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:12.720 Yeah, what do you know? 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:14.400 Can you Are you good at escaping? 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:17.880 I've never been in sight. 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:21.600 Well, just escaping the washing up in the evening is 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.040 a skill I find anyway. 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.640 I'm a bachelor of Well, there you go, the Moondine 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:29.240 Joe story. 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.520 That's my favorite Moondiine story. Just digressing. And he was 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.000 He was a British convict, of course, silly Harvey. What 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:40.360 he was doing at Fremantle Jail. He was sentenced to 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:44.080 hard labor and that meant breaking rocks. But because they're 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.160 a bit worried about him escaping, they brought the rocks 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:50.320 into the prison that's a true story. And so he 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:54.040 was breaking the rocks, and then when the guards weren't watching, 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.720 he was also whacking the walls of the fremental prison 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:03.440 with the sledgehammer. Sledgehow and that's how we escape. Amazing. 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:05.800 You must be very you must be very proud to 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.159 have to have him in your lineage. Jeff. 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.000 Yeah, well I only found out a couple of years ago. 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.639 I've had romas, but I'm still I actually go and 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:18.840 did not for a fact. 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:19.119 You know. 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:24.320 No, Well, that's great, indeed, good only, thank you very much. 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.240 Anyone else has got links to any convince. It was 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:29.640 a buzz, yeah, certainly. So. 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.240 The your agricultural society said that we really ought to 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:37.320 have convicts here, but there was still strenuous opposition to it. 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:43.440 But you know, other particularly the agricultural society, is cottoned 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:49.560 onto this, and they kept saying that the convicts would 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:54.440 provide much needed labor to help with the infrastructure. And 0:17:55.000 --> 0:18:00.520 but that eighteen forty five petition was rejected you nanimously 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:06.159 by the Council, the Legislative Council. They stated that the 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:11.399 necessity for such an application is not apparent. No dearth 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:14.080 of labor can be so extreme as to call for 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:19.520 or warrant our having recourse to such a hazardous experiment 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:24.719 for a supply, so they weren't too keen on it. However, 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:29.520 to address the problems raised by the petition, the Legislative 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:35.480 Council asked, with great misgivings, for the British Government to 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:40.320 send out a small number of convicts for a limited term. 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:44.280 When the reports of the Council's debate on the introduction 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:48.520 of convicts arrived in Britain in eighteen forty eight, the 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:49.760 British government. 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:51.520 Took great interest in them. 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:55.760 Not surprisingly, by this time the only British colonies still 0:18:55.800 --> 0:19:01.080 willing to accept convicts under protest were Canada and Van 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:05.160 Demon's Land now Tasmania. Even New South Wales had stopped. 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:12.840 By then. A tentative attempt to institute a penal system 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:19.360 within England had caused public outcry and had been dispen suspended. 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:24.080 With nowhere else to send convicts, the numbers of British 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:29.680 jails had in jails had increased, and there were serious 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:30.760 problems over there. 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.119 Well, what do you know, Steve of Beachbrook, That a 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:35.440 lot of story to tell us, could I. 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:40.520 Steve good Evening? Yes, Tarby and Richard. Hello, Yes, my 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.640 great great grandfather was a Parker's boy. 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:45.199 Wow. 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:50.400 He came out on the Cumberland in eighteen forty six. Yeah, 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:52.840 and he was of the ripe old age of nine 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:55.560 crust packers. Boy. 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.359 Is incredible, isn't it. What did he do steal a 0:19:58.359 --> 0:19:59.560 handkerchief or a loaf? 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.200 Me that I haven't found out what his crime was? Yes, 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.280 terrible really when you think about how old you could 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:13.240 send somebody like halfway around the world nowhere, yes, at nine? 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:17.280 Yeah, yeah, I mean how did you survive on the 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.439 ship for three or four months? 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.320 As incredible? All that? All that? 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:26.800 Yes, poor little blighter, Well it must have carved a 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.639 pretty good future for himself. You must have been a 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:30.919 lad of strong character. 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:33.400 Steve Well, Yes, I guess. 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.440 I guess they put them to work pretty much down 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:38.760 at wherever it was done in the Southwest that they 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:39.240 hadn't and. 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:42.480 I think a lot of them were built. 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:45.080 Yeah, I think a lot of them were put into 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:49.040 domestic labor, weren't they, and things like gardeners and that 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.480 sort of thing, because a nine year old wouldn't be 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:53.680 up to building a bridge, I don't think. 0:20:55.320 --> 0:21:01.080 Year. No, maybe apprenticed of some sort. I'm not sure. 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.480 I don't have all the story about his life because 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:04.399 I'm still looking into that. 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:06.680 Yeah, that'll be interesting to you. What give us a 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:09.840 buzz back when you delve into PA. We'd love to 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.000 know the history of a nine year old who's made 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.560 good after being deported at that age. Good only stay. 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:15.879 Thanks for you, Colling, You're welcome. 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:17.560 Thank you. That's great. 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.000 Yeah, has got some good I thought it, thought it 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.080 might bring some people out tonight. 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:25.560 Yeah. 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:30.520 So yet again the British government said, nap, We're not 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:34.520 doing that. We're not sending you them on a fixed term. 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.600 You either have them for life or not at all. 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:43.000 And that led to even more concern over here about 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:47.600 getting them, should we have them or not? And after 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.920 the break, I'll talk about a public meeting. In February 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:57.520 of eighteen forty nine. 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:04.360 This remember when with Harvey Degan on Perth six PR. 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.520 Richard often talking about our early convicts. I suppose they're 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:09.199 all early weren't they? 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:15.840 Well they yes to tortoism, Yes, yes, So in February 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.199 of eighteen forty nine, this whole issue of are we 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:22.200 going to have convicts? Aren't we came to a head, 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:24.879 and there was a public meeting held in what we 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.720 now call the old Courthouse down in Sterling Gardens. Three 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:32.320 hundred attended it, and on they say there was a 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:35.760 hot debate, But on a February day with three hundred 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:36.280 in there. 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:37.840 I think everything was hot. 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.119 I think there were a few who fainted. I don't know, 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:48.400 but very soon a majority view emerged that in support 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:52.399 of a proposal put forward by Laronel Sampson, who of 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:58.280 course was a merchant in Fremantle. Sampson argued that the 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:03.040 colony needed both labor and capital, and he thought that 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:06.560 a penal colony would not only bring the labor, but 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:09.040 there would be some money coming with it from the 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:17.280 British government to help. They got the convicts, but not 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:22.919 a lot of money, and as a result, Governor Fitzgerald 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:29.680 was able to tell the Colonial Office that the colony 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:34.760 had decided that we could be turned into a convict 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:38.639 colony in May of eighteen forty nine. She's quite quick 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:43.280 after the February meeting. When you think that letters had 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:47.320 to go backwards and forwards by ship, I'm wondering whether 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:51.639 the British government had decided to impose the colony the 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:55.160 convicts on us, because there was an order in Council 0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:59.840 that on the first day of June of eighteen forty 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:04.960 nine that Western Australia would become a penal colony. 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:10.639 Because we should remember that the whole philosophy behind convict 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:13.280 settlement of Australia from Britain was to clear out the 0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:14.160 British jail. 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:18.320 That's right, moved the dross somewhere well away from them. 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:20.160 Yeah, and it has to be said. 0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:25.560 In eighteen fifty anticipation of the first convicts arriving, the 0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:33.960 Legislative Council debated a convict discipline bill and it didn't 0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:39.800 get too far, the Inquirer reported on the second of January. 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:45.360 Notwithstanding the many alterations and amendments effected at the former sitting, 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:49.919 the bill had to undergo still further pruning, as it 0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:55.080 was red clause by clause discussion. There was none rambling. 0:24:55.160 --> 0:25:00.000 Conversation took place, sometimes three or four speaking at once. 0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:03.640 That sounds like Premiers question. 0:25:03.520 --> 0:25:09.760 Time to me. But anyway, and as later as late 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:15.199 January that year, the Birth Gazette was reporting that we 0:25:15.280 --> 0:25:19.480 would get some convicts, and the first convict ship, of course, 0:25:19.800 --> 0:25:23.760 arrived on the first of June eighteen fifty in Fremantle, 0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:30.240 much to the surprise of everyone here. They weren't expecting them. Really, yeah, 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:33.199 it's lovely. I love the irony of this. You couldn't 0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:38.119 make this up. It Nobody mentioned this in the articles 0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:43.359