1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,480 S1: From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,360 S1: This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Seelinger Morris. It's Thursday, 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:17,520 S1: December 4th. When Marc Leishman and his wife Cathy first 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,759 S1: sought out the help of George Demetriou. They were suffering 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,760 S1: with cash flow problems at Mark's business. But by the 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,600 S1: time their working relationship with Demetriou finished and after they 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,880 S1: discovered he was only pretending to be an accountant, their 8 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,880 S1: Newcastle home was repossessed and they lost. They say $4 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:43,000 S1: million today. Chief investigative reporter Kate McClymont on George Demetriou, 10 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,280 S1: a serial conman and high school dropout who conned vulnerable 11 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,760 S1: people out of millions of dollars with the help of 12 00:00:50,760 --> 00:01:00,880 S1: allegedly a bank loans manager and a series of lawyers. Kate, 13 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:02,720 S1: welcome back to the podcast. 14 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,240 S2: Thank you for having me, Sam. 15 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,480 S1: Okay. Well, you know, we feel it's a special day 16 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,959 S1: when you're on, so can you just begin with, I guess, 17 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,600 S1: telling us who is George? Dimitri, you and I have 18 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,640 S1: to ask how you stumbled onto this story. Because I'm 19 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,319 S1: lucky enough I get to talk to you in the 20 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,680 S1: hallways here at the newsroom. And you've told me in 21 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,920 S1: the past about some really unexpected sources and locations where 22 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:24,800 S1: you get tips, like, you know, other parents at the 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:26,440 S1: school gate. You know, the rest of us just hear 24 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,840 S1: about people's renovations, but you hear about, you know. 25 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,400 S2: Walking the dog is always a good source of stories. Exactly. 26 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,080 S1: So tell me how you stumbled on this one. 27 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:39,600 S2: Well, funnily enough, two lots of victims contacted me separately. Like, 28 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,920 S2: completely randomly. Just said, could you please help us with 29 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:48,080 S2: our stories? And the person we're talking about is a 30 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,880 S2: man called George Demetriou, who's a 55 year old. He's 31 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:58,730 S2: currently in jail in EMU Plains for a fraud. But 32 00:01:58,730 --> 00:02:02,650 S2: the thing that upsets the victims is that he has 33 00:02:02,650 --> 00:02:07,450 S2: ripped off and ruined so many people's lives. But he's 34 00:02:07,450 --> 00:02:11,169 S2: not in jail for ripping them off. He's in jail 35 00:02:11,330 --> 00:02:16,410 S2: for defrauding the ANZ bank. And you know, George Demetriou 36 00:02:16,970 --> 00:02:20,730 S2: left school in year ten and set up a garden 37 00:02:20,730 --> 00:02:27,170 S2: artistry business. So sometime around 2010, he thinks being a 38 00:02:27,169 --> 00:02:30,450 S2: fraudster is going to be so much more profitable. So 39 00:02:30,450 --> 00:02:33,250 S2: he just puts a sign up on the wall and 40 00:02:33,250 --> 00:02:37,490 S2: says that he is an accountant. He doesn't even have 41 00:02:37,970 --> 00:02:41,530 S2: any financial training. He doesn't. He doesn't go to TAFE. 42 00:02:41,570 --> 00:02:45,450 S2: He's got nothing at all. The one thing that's still 43 00:02:45,450 --> 00:02:48,130 S2: unclear to me is that he must have done a 44 00:02:48,130 --> 00:02:52,769 S2: couple of loans in order to get recommendations. Or maybe 45 00:02:53,210 --> 00:02:56,769 S2: he did a couple of things, but the victims hadn't 46 00:02:56,889 --> 00:03:01,850 S2: yet realized they'd been cheated. They think that it's all 47 00:03:01,889 --> 00:03:08,130 S2: going okay until it's not. Which brings us to Cathy 48 00:03:08,130 --> 00:03:11,970 S2: and Marc Leishman. Now they're, you know, a lovely couple 49 00:03:11,970 --> 00:03:18,570 S2: from Newcastle. Mark's father's business was experiencing some cash flow. 50 00:03:18,770 --> 00:03:22,250 S2: It was sort of like providing sort of like mining 51 00:03:22,250 --> 00:03:27,090 S2: software to companies anyway. A lawyer in Newcastle suggests that 52 00:03:27,250 --> 00:03:30,649 S2: they talk to this guy, George Demetriou, who's, you know, 53 00:03:30,690 --> 00:03:34,730 S2: seems to be pretty good at doing loans. So they 54 00:03:34,930 --> 00:03:38,170 S2: come down to Sydney and George says, yes, I can 55 00:03:38,170 --> 00:03:41,810 S2: do this, I can do that, you know, I'll fix 56 00:03:41,810 --> 00:03:47,650 S2: your car leases, etc.. Before they know it, they've got, 57 00:03:47,690 --> 00:03:52,890 S2: you know, bailiffs knocking on the door saying, we're about 58 00:03:52,890 --> 00:03:56,860 S2: to repossess your house. You know, I just remember Cathy 59 00:03:56,860 --> 00:04:00,300 S2: Leishman saying she works in a as a physio in 60 00:04:00,300 --> 00:04:04,820 S2: a private hospital in Newcastle and just saying the embarrassment 61 00:04:05,020 --> 00:04:09,820 S2: of having process servers come to the hospital. You know, 62 00:04:10,140 --> 00:04:13,380 S2: Cathy Leishman, you're served just. 63 00:04:13,740 --> 00:04:16,620 S1: And she said they were respected members of the community. Yes. 64 00:04:17,100 --> 00:04:20,500 S2: So a court, you know, later found that their signatures 65 00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:24,620 S2: had been forged on documents, you know, and then there was, um, 66 00:04:24,660 --> 00:04:28,060 S2: lepa Sana from the Central Coast. She and her husband 67 00:04:28,100 --> 00:04:32,140 S2: had their documents forged. Not only did their marriage break 68 00:04:32,140 --> 00:04:36,979 S2: down and they've lost their houses, she's been made bankrupt. 69 00:04:36,980 --> 00:04:41,580 S2: She doesn't even know that she's been made bankrupt. Because 70 00:04:41,580 --> 00:04:46,539 S2: all the documentation goes to George Demetriou's office. And when 71 00:04:46,540 --> 00:04:49,300 S2: it comes up in court about her failing to turn up, 72 00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:53,299 S2: they file more fake documents saying she's in a mental 73 00:04:53,500 --> 00:04:58,540 S2: Institution and that's why she can't come to court. So 74 00:04:58,740 --> 00:05:04,060 S2: poor leper is still fighting the bankruptcy trustee. But when 75 00:05:04,060 --> 00:05:09,060 S2: you've been stripped of everything of all your money, you 76 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:13,620 S2: don't have the resources to fight on. And I think 77 00:05:13,820 --> 00:05:17,700 S2: this is what is so heartbreaking for these people is 78 00:05:17,700 --> 00:05:22,020 S2: that having lost everything, it's really hard to find the 79 00:05:22,020 --> 00:05:26,020 S2: funds to try to fight back. And that's where George 80 00:05:26,020 --> 00:05:30,380 S2: Demetriou has got away with it for a while. But 81 00:05:30,380 --> 00:05:34,219 S2: it's also interesting what the court thinks about these kind 82 00:05:34,260 --> 00:05:38,260 S2: of things, because Ading Demetriou, in some of these things 83 00:05:38,260 --> 00:05:44,260 S2: have been solicitors and on one case, one of the 84 00:05:44,260 --> 00:05:48,179 S2: New South Wales court judges said yes, but solicitors wouldn't 85 00:05:48,180 --> 00:05:49,100 S2: do that. 86 00:05:49,140 --> 00:05:49,620 S1: Yeah. 87 00:05:49,900 --> 00:05:53,100 S2: And it's that thing. You can imagine the frustration sitting 88 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:57,380 S2: there in court where they're believed. But you're not. 89 00:05:57,420 --> 00:06:00,020 S1: You'd feel so let down. You'd feel so betrayed. 90 00:06:00,020 --> 00:06:03,620 S2: And I think the victims feel that they've been let 91 00:06:03,660 --> 00:06:07,820 S2: down by the police. They've been let down by the 92 00:06:07,820 --> 00:06:12,740 S2: Law Society because their lawyers were sometimes in cahoots with Demetriou. 93 00:06:13,339 --> 00:06:16,700 S2: The bank, like a number of them, complained to the bank, 94 00:06:16,980 --> 00:06:21,780 S2: and nothing ever seemed to have been done. And if 95 00:06:21,779 --> 00:06:25,780 S2: there's any legal aid lawyers listening out there, gee, some 96 00:06:25,779 --> 00:06:27,340 S2: of these people could do with a hand. 97 00:06:27,380 --> 00:06:29,180 S1: Yeah, right. Okay. Well, we're going to get to the 98 00:06:29,180 --> 00:06:31,700 S1: allegations against how the police and the courts and the 99 00:06:31,700 --> 00:06:33,900 S1: Law Society and so forth, you know, might have very 100 00:06:33,900 --> 00:06:38,100 S1: well failed these clients of George Demetriou. But take us 101 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:41,020 S1: into what his modus operandi was like. Did he have 102 00:06:41,020 --> 00:06:43,460 S1: a sort of set game that he played, I guess. 103 00:06:43,700 --> 00:06:46,980 S2: Look, what he did was you would come to him 104 00:06:46,980 --> 00:06:52,150 S2: to get a loan and so in some cases he 105 00:06:52,150 --> 00:06:56,070 S2: would falsify your tax return, like in one case with 106 00:06:56,070 --> 00:07:01,870 S2: Sue Arnott from Brisbane. She was she was earning $20,000 107 00:07:01,910 --> 00:07:06,109 S2: a year and she had a house. So her brother 108 00:07:06,110 --> 00:07:09,150 S2: was wanting to use her house as equity for a loan. 109 00:07:09,350 --> 00:07:14,750 S2: The next thing her tax return is she's getting 220,000. 110 00:07:15,190 --> 00:07:22,750 S2: So the loans are astronomical. They're falsifying valuations on houses. 111 00:07:22,750 --> 00:07:28,230 S2: They're falsifying. This is Demetriou loan documents selling houses from 112 00:07:28,270 --> 00:07:33,790 S2: under people by forging their signatures. It was all encompassing 113 00:07:33,790 --> 00:07:38,790 S2: and widespread. But he would also set up companies with 114 00:07:38,790 --> 00:07:44,070 S2: victims names and then get company loans. It was quite 115 00:07:44,070 --> 00:07:49,870 S2: sophisticated and very complicated, like trying to unravel, you know, 116 00:07:49,990 --> 00:07:54,510 S2: some victims names and companies were used to cheat other victims. 117 00:07:54,510 --> 00:07:59,630 S2: And so then Demetriou would pit them against each other saying, oh, 118 00:08:00,270 --> 00:08:03,710 S2: you know, Sam, it was Kate that stole your money, 119 00:08:03,750 --> 00:08:10,030 S2: not me. So he sort of kept them apart. Wow. Oh, look, 120 00:08:10,070 --> 00:08:11,390 S2: it's it's just heartbreaking. 121 00:08:11,390 --> 00:08:13,950 S1: It's horrible. And I think it was Sue Arnott. I 122 00:08:13,950 --> 00:08:15,390 S1: think she was the person who I think was on 123 00:08:15,390 --> 00:08:18,190 S1: $20,000 a year. And was it her that had, like, 124 00:08:18,230 --> 00:08:21,310 S1: I don't know, multiple, multiple companies under her name that 125 00:08:21,310 --> 00:08:23,950 S1: I think Demetriou had sort of put in her name. 126 00:08:24,150 --> 00:08:27,270 S2: When she finally went to an ANZ bank account and said, look, 127 00:08:27,510 --> 00:08:32,310 S2: could you just give me a list of the loans 128 00:08:32,309 --> 00:08:34,910 S2: that I have in my name? She did not know 129 00:08:34,910 --> 00:08:41,309 S2: that he had taken out personal loans, company loans, but, um, 130 00:08:41,429 --> 00:08:46,190 S2: she had some financial backing. She was lucky in some ways. 131 00:08:46,190 --> 00:08:51,040 S2: So it was Sue Arnott that pursued George through the 132 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:56,240 S2: courts and made him bankrupt. And also it was her 133 00:08:56,280 --> 00:09:00,000 S2: loan that the ANZ was able to prove fraud on 134 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,600 S2: Demetriou's behalf. But again, as I said, the police took 135 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:09,199 S2: action because he defrauded the ANZ, not because he defrauded 136 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,359 S2: all these poor other people. 137 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,960 S1: And then there's one detail that really stuck out for 138 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,559 S1: me from your story. This is a Melbourne businessman who 139 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,920 S1: you've called Mr. M because he's asked not to be named, 140 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,640 S1: and he was chasing George Demetriou for the return of 141 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,800 S1: his own money. And astonishingly, he said he went to 142 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,400 S1: police and he was put onto a detective from the 143 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,440 S1: New South Wales Fraud Squad who, after hearing Mr. M's story, 144 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,480 S1: said you too, and said that there were plenty of others, 145 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,600 S1: like did the police then take action after that, or 146 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,280 S1: was he just left with a oh, you also got duped. 147 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,559 S2: Look, I think that, um, I mean, look, nothing ended 148 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:49,200 S2: up happening with all these allegations, But this was extraordinary. 149 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,040 S2: So in 2011, Mr. M, who's been put on to 150 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,280 S2: George Demetriou, somebody else had heard about him. So he 151 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,600 S2: needs a loan to finance some business arrangements. So he 152 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,840 S2: goes along to Demetriou and he uses two houses in 153 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,959 S2: Melbourne as security for the loans. Now the loans are 154 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,439 S2: meant to go into a family company account and it 155 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,200 S2: was something like I think two point, I think it 156 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:22,679 S2: was 2.3 million. So you know, yes, the loan's been approved. 157 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,560 S2: So he keeps checking in the company account. Not there, 158 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,240 S2: not there. He finally goes into his own local ANZ 159 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,160 S2: bank and they go, oh yeah, yeah, it went in 160 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,560 S2: and it went out. And he said, it went out. 161 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,440 S2: And he said, yes, it's gone into these accounts. And 162 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,760 S2: they were associated with Demetriou. But when he rings up 163 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,319 S2: to meet you, Dmitri says, oh, yes. Remember, you gave 164 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,960 S2: me permission to invest the money in on your behalf. 165 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,040 S2: And he said, I did not. This money is for 166 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,560 S2: a family loan. He said, no, no, you gave permission. 167 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,080 S2: He said, okay, where's my signature? There was nothing. And 168 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,440 S2: the other thing was that his family, they're all fighting, 169 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,600 S2: saying you've taken the money. He said, I didn't. I 170 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,840 S2: promise you, the money went in and the money went out, 171 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,560 S2: and he went to the New South Wales Police. And 172 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:20,600 S2: that's when they were told, oh, so you too have 173 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,920 S2: been defrauded by this man. 174 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:24,280 S1: And did he ever get his money back? 175 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:24,720 S2: No. 176 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:38,000 S1: We'll be right back. So I do have to ask, though. 177 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,160 S1: I mean, did the A and Z fail the victims 178 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:41,480 S1: of George Demetriou? 179 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:46,370 S2: Look, I think that they did Because I think that 180 00:11:46,370 --> 00:11:50,690 S2: they possibly just thought it wouldn't be possible. But now, 181 00:11:51,130 --> 00:11:53,050 S2: you know, I sort of wonder if they ever went 182 00:11:53,050 --> 00:11:57,209 S2: back after the court case. And don't forget, the court 183 00:11:57,210 --> 00:12:01,690 S2: case was, you know, Demetriou ripping off the ANZ bank 184 00:12:02,130 --> 00:12:07,970 S2: after their former Chatswood you know, loans manager admitted in 185 00:12:07,970 --> 00:12:12,929 S2: court saying yes I faked the signature. Did they go 186 00:12:12,929 --> 00:12:17,850 S2: back and check what else. What other claims had come 187 00:12:17,850 --> 00:12:22,610 S2: before them previously. Did they reassess, you know, what had 188 00:12:22,610 --> 00:12:25,690 S2: happened to their customers in the past? I don't know, 189 00:12:25,730 --> 00:12:26,650 S2: they wouldn't say. 190 00:12:27,410 --> 00:12:30,810 S1: So you've asked them and just got silence? Yes. Okay. 191 00:12:31,370 --> 00:12:35,329 S1: And I wanted to ask you about Anna. She was 192 00:12:35,330 --> 00:12:38,730 S1: left bankrupt after Demetriou manufactured loan documents and forged her 193 00:12:38,730 --> 00:12:42,210 S1: and her husband's signatures on numerous documents, including on the 194 00:12:42,210 --> 00:12:44,970 S1: sale of their house at Copacabana. She's the one who 195 00:12:44,970 --> 00:12:47,890 S1: told you that her marriage broke down from the stress 196 00:12:48,170 --> 00:12:50,730 S1: and the horribleness of all of this, and she told 197 00:12:50,730 --> 00:12:53,010 S1: you that her efforts to, quote, bring attention to the 198 00:12:53,010 --> 00:12:57,210 S1: frauds perpetrated by Demetriou have been dismissed at every turn. 199 00:12:57,210 --> 00:13:00,490 S1: So who did she turn to? And I mean, are 200 00:13:00,490 --> 00:13:02,930 S1: there any other authorities that sort of failed to stop 201 00:13:02,929 --> 00:13:06,089 S1: George Demetriou when they could have possibly done so? Besides those, 202 00:13:06,130 --> 00:13:06,850 S1: you know, we've discussed? 203 00:13:06,890 --> 00:13:10,730 S2: Well, she's been to the police. She has pleaded with 204 00:13:10,730 --> 00:13:15,810 S2: the bankruptcy courts, saying that I was a victim in 205 00:13:15,809 --> 00:13:19,930 S2: all this. And it's just like no one has believed her. 206 00:13:19,970 --> 00:13:23,650 S2: No one has listened to her. And, you know, to 207 00:13:23,690 --> 00:13:29,610 S2: find yourself bankrupt after, you know. And I have to clarify, too, 208 00:13:29,650 --> 00:13:33,809 S2: that in some of these situations, these people were already 209 00:13:33,809 --> 00:13:39,929 S2: in financial distress. And George Demetriou just made it worse. 210 00:13:40,170 --> 00:13:45,500 S2: So whether their financial position was going to lead to 211 00:13:45,540 --> 00:13:49,780 S2: the eventual outcome, I don't know, but whatever happened, Demetriou 212 00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:53,500 S2: just made things so much worse for people. 213 00:13:53,540 --> 00:13:56,700 S1: So you mentioned just then that, you know, she told 214 00:13:56,700 --> 00:13:58,900 S1: so many people about what was happening to her. No 215 00:13:58,900 --> 00:14:00,059 S1: one believed her. Why? 216 00:14:01,059 --> 00:14:05,380 S2: Because I just think that fraudsters get away with it. 217 00:14:05,380 --> 00:14:07,819 S2: Because people don't believe that they will do it. They 218 00:14:07,820 --> 00:14:11,540 S2: don't believe that lawyers will help them do it. And 219 00:14:11,540 --> 00:14:15,339 S2: there's one lawyer, Hector X, and I've been writing about 220 00:14:15,380 --> 00:14:21,300 S2: Hector X for years. He's been found, you know, guilty 221 00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:26,460 S2: of professional misconduct. So he was acting for some of 222 00:14:26,460 --> 00:14:30,780 S2: the victims. And then it turns out that when George 223 00:14:30,780 --> 00:14:36,300 S2: Demetriou declares himself bankrupt and transfers his assets to another 224 00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:42,300 S2: former bankrupt who is helping him backdate the documents. But 225 00:14:42,340 --> 00:14:46,980 S2: Hector X, who's meant to be representing his own clients, 226 00:14:46,980 --> 00:14:53,380 S2: but instead he's doing the dirty with George Demetriou and 227 00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:56,900 S2: he actually died in September last year. But there are 228 00:14:56,900 --> 00:15:02,940 S2: multiple claims for professional negligence against Hector X, and this 229 00:15:02,940 --> 00:15:07,380 S2: is another failure by the regulators. The Law Society actually 230 00:15:07,420 --> 00:15:11,500 S2: took over his practice in 2020. He had to hand 231 00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:16,260 S2: in his practising certificate again. So the Leishman's who were 232 00:15:16,260 --> 00:15:21,820 S2: victims of Hector X, they've been pestering the Law Society 233 00:15:21,820 --> 00:15:25,460 S2: to release their files so that they can at least 234 00:15:25,460 --> 00:15:28,820 S2: try to recover some of their funds under, you know, 235 00:15:28,860 --> 00:15:33,420 S2: this professional negligence cover for victims of lawyers. 236 00:15:33,460 --> 00:15:35,500 S1: Because they say not only have they lost their house 237 00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:38,300 S1: in Newcastle, but also $4 million, right? 238 00:15:38,340 --> 00:15:41,780 S2: Yes. But they can't get their files back because the 239 00:15:41,780 --> 00:15:45,340 S2: Law Society has them. And at the last I heard, 240 00:15:45,340 --> 00:15:49,420 S2: they were saying, oh, now it'll cost you $600 if 241 00:15:49,420 --> 00:15:51,780 S2: you want to get them from this office, or if 242 00:15:51,780 --> 00:15:55,140 S2: we bring them into the city, that'll cost, you know, $800. 243 00:15:55,340 --> 00:15:59,060 S2: And you think these people have suffered enough, and now 244 00:15:59,580 --> 00:16:05,620 S2: you're charging them to get their own files from your office? Like, 245 00:16:05,660 --> 00:16:08,860 S2: it's just. I just think the wheels of justice in 246 00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:09,700 S2: this case. 247 00:16:09,740 --> 00:16:11,060 S1: Have ground these people under the. 248 00:16:11,060 --> 00:16:14,780 S2: Ground. Not only have they turned slowly, they've ground them 249 00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:16,220 S2: into oblivion. 250 00:16:16,340 --> 00:16:19,180 S1: And I guess, just to wrap up, I guess this 251 00:16:19,180 --> 00:16:21,940 S1: would seem to be the, you know, the indignity. To 252 00:16:21,980 --> 00:16:25,100 S1: top it all off, is that the allegation in your 253 00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:28,020 S1: piece is that this Sydney solicitor, the late Sydney solicitor 254 00:16:28,060 --> 00:16:32,700 S1: Hector X, that he allegedly helped George Demetriou to retain 255 00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:37,380 S1: his Lamborghini as Maserati, millions of dollars that he'd stolen 256 00:16:37,380 --> 00:16:39,430 S1: from clients by sort of, I guess, hiding them away. 257 00:16:39,430 --> 00:16:42,390 S1: Is that right before he declared himself bankrupt? 258 00:16:42,430 --> 00:16:46,550 S2: Yes. That's right. It's I mean, that's the the last 259 00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:49,710 S2: insult is in fact, I think he said he had 260 00:16:49,710 --> 00:16:51,390 S2: $3 in his account. 261 00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:52,030 S1: That's right. 262 00:16:52,270 --> 00:16:56,750 S2: But it's interesting because his, um, his current bankruptcy trustee 263 00:16:56,950 --> 00:17:03,190 S2: has now extended his bankruptcy because normally you bankrupt for 264 00:17:03,190 --> 00:17:09,430 S2: three years, but the bankruptcy trustee has found all these anomalies, 265 00:17:09,470 --> 00:17:14,190 S2: you know, hiding assets, etc.. So his bankruptcy has been 266 00:17:14,190 --> 00:17:17,670 S2: extended for an extra, I think an extra four years 267 00:17:17,710 --> 00:17:19,590 S2: until 2027. Till 2027. 268 00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:21,550 S1: But but does that mean that he's still got millions 269 00:17:21,550 --> 00:17:24,750 S1: of dollars allegedly stashed away somewhere and is a Lamborghini 270 00:17:24,750 --> 00:17:25,590 S1: and his Maserati? 271 00:17:25,790 --> 00:17:29,550 S2: Well, I think that that is what is believed. But again, 272 00:17:29,910 --> 00:17:35,510 S2: a bankruptcy trustee needs to be funded in order to, 273 00:17:35,950 --> 00:17:39,310 S2: you know, pursue this because doing forensic accounting, doing that 274 00:17:39,310 --> 00:17:43,550 S2: kind of tracing is not cheap. So you need for 275 00:17:43,550 --> 00:17:46,870 S2: someone to come along and say, I will give you 276 00:17:47,030 --> 00:17:50,750 S2: X amount of money to go after this man, his 277 00:17:50,750 --> 00:17:55,070 S2: poor victims. You know, they often don't have the money 278 00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:59,390 S2: to fund this. So it's a vicious circle. Like you 279 00:17:59,390 --> 00:18:02,750 S2: can get away with stuff if you if your victims 280 00:18:02,750 --> 00:18:07,030 S2: are crushed, are financially crushed. It's win win for you 281 00:18:07,030 --> 00:18:07,830 S2: as the crook. 282 00:18:08,310 --> 00:18:10,030 S1: So, I mean, so what should happen next? I mean, 283 00:18:10,190 --> 00:18:12,950 S1: is anyone actually going to do you think take notice 284 00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:14,950 S1: of this story? I don't know. Pick up on it. 285 00:18:14,990 --> 00:18:19,909 S2: I don't know. It's. Yes. It'll be interesting to see 286 00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:21,109 S2: what does happen. 287 00:18:21,150 --> 00:18:24,710 S1: Okay. Well watch this space. Listeners and viewers, thanks so much, Kate, 288 00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:25,910 S1: as always, for your time. 289 00:18:25,950 --> 00:18:26,990 S2: Oh my pleasure. 290 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,480 S1: Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by myself 291 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,960 S1: and Kai Wong. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Our 292 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,359 S1: head of audio is Tom McKendrick. The Morning Edition is 293 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,960 S1: a production of The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. 294 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,000 S1: If you enjoy the show and want more of our journalism, 295 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,320 S1: subscribe to our newspapers today. It's the best way to 296 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:11,639 S1: support what we do. Search The Age or Smh.com.au. Subscribe 297 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,840 S1: and sign up for our Morning Edition newsletter to receive 298 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,600 S1: a comprehensive summary of the day's most important news, analysis 299 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,720 S1: and insights in your inbox every day. Links are in 300 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:27,000 S1: the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. This is the 301 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,320 S1: morning edition. Thanks for listening.