1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:04,800 S1: From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:09,800 S1: This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Seelinger Morris. It's Tuesday, 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:17,239 S1: December 2nd. It really was the stuff of nightmares. A 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,800 S1: Swiss tourist who was swimming with dolphins off the New 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,360 S1: South Wales coast was suddenly mauled by a three metre 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,720 S1: long bull shark. The 25 year old died from her 7 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:33,120 S1: injuries despite her heroic boyfriend, an exchange student also from Switzerland, 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,640 S1: fighting off the shark and carrying her to shore. Today, 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,720 S1: environment and climate reporter Caitlin Fitzsimmons on why the number 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:48,800 S1: of people killed by sharks in Australia is rising. Caitlin, 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,680 S1: this topic is particularly pertinent right now because of a 12 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,160 S1: shocking shark attack last week at an idyllic beach on 13 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,360 S1: the New South Wales coast. So first off, can you 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,610 S1: just tell us about what happened? 15 00:00:59,970 --> 00:01:06,330 S2: Yes. It was a tragic circumstance. A couple from Switzerland, 16 00:01:06,330 --> 00:01:10,970 S2: in their mid 20s were camping at Calis Beach in 17 00:01:10,970 --> 00:01:15,569 S2: crowded national park on the Mid North Coast. They'd arrived 18 00:01:15,569 --> 00:01:18,930 S2: the night before and they were going for a morning swim, 19 00:01:19,370 --> 00:01:22,929 S2: apparently filming a pod of dolphins on the GoPro just 20 00:01:22,930 --> 00:01:26,490 S2: moments before. The young woman was attacked. 21 00:01:26,970 --> 00:01:30,410 S3: A secluded beach blocked off to the public following a 22 00:01:30,450 --> 00:01:32,369 S3: horrific morning in the water. 23 00:01:32,490 --> 00:01:35,130 S4: It's the shark attack that's left a young Swiss woman 24 00:01:35,130 --> 00:01:39,370 S4: dead and her partner suffering serious injuries, trying to save her. 25 00:01:39,410 --> 00:01:41,810 S5: Fatal shark attack on the New South Wales mid-north coast 26 00:01:41,810 --> 00:01:44,690 S5: is raising concerns once again about beach safety. 27 00:01:44,930 --> 00:01:47,450 S2: Her boyfriend went to try to help her. He was 28 00:01:47,450 --> 00:01:51,570 S2: also mauled. He got her to shore, but sadly she 29 00:01:51,570 --> 00:01:55,730 S2: died of her injuries on the sand and he was 30 00:01:56,170 --> 00:02:01,090 S2: assisted by a bystander and then rescued by helicopter and 31 00:02:01,090 --> 00:02:04,450 S2: taken off to hospital in a stable but serious condition. 32 00:02:08,090 --> 00:02:10,410 S1: And you've been looking into the number of shark attacks 33 00:02:10,410 --> 00:02:15,250 S1: in Australia and shark bites specifically. So I'm just curious, 34 00:02:15,250 --> 00:02:17,690 S1: is there a distinction between the use of the term 35 00:02:18,010 --> 00:02:21,250 S1: shark bite and shark attack? Like what's that about? 36 00:02:21,930 --> 00:02:25,410 S2: Okay, so I prefer to use the term shark bite. 37 00:02:25,450 --> 00:02:28,890 S2: I do use attack occasionally. I just did in my 38 00:02:28,889 --> 00:02:34,810 S2: previous answer, but I guess attack implies intent and often 39 00:02:34,810 --> 00:02:37,650 S2: sharks will bite just because they're curious. They're not always 40 00:02:37,650 --> 00:02:42,930 S2: in full blown aggressive attack mode. They may just be exploring, 41 00:02:42,970 --> 00:02:45,850 S2: seeing something unusual and checking it out with its mouth. 42 00:02:46,010 --> 00:02:48,250 S1: Okay, well, let's talk about numbers. I mean, how many 43 00:02:48,250 --> 00:02:51,170 S1: bites or deaths have there been and how does it 44 00:02:51,210 --> 00:02:52,730 S1: compare to previous years? 45 00:02:52,970 --> 00:02:57,980 S2: So there is generally in any given year either no 46 00:02:58,220 --> 00:03:03,140 S2: deaths from shark bite or one or maybe two. And 47 00:03:03,460 --> 00:03:10,340 S2: there have been since 2000 around Australia, 58 deaths by 48 00:03:10,340 --> 00:03:15,980 S2: shark bite, including the recent one and Mercury salakas on 49 00:03:16,020 --> 00:03:20,580 S2: the northern beaches in September. And that's according to the 50 00:03:20,620 --> 00:03:24,820 S2: Australian Shark Incident Database, which is maintained at Taronga Zoo 51 00:03:25,340 --> 00:03:31,340 S2: and is considered very comprehensive. And that is actually rising 52 00:03:31,340 --> 00:03:36,660 S2: over time. There are kind of reasons that are put 53 00:03:36,660 --> 00:03:40,660 S2: forward for that, but I think it's complicated. There are 54 00:03:40,660 --> 00:03:45,300 S2: many reasons, and it's not because the population of the 55 00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:51,140 S2: sharks is increasing. Many of these sharks species are vulnerable, 56 00:03:51,340 --> 00:03:54,430 S2: such as white sharks, which are responsible for the majority 57 00:03:54,430 --> 00:03:59,630 S2: of shark bites. We do know, though, that the behavior 58 00:03:59,910 --> 00:04:03,990 S2: and distribution and range of the sharks is changing, and 59 00:04:03,990 --> 00:04:08,070 S2: that's partly because of development pressures, and it's also because 60 00:04:08,070 --> 00:04:11,950 S2: of climate change. So white sharks, which are a cool 61 00:04:11,950 --> 00:04:16,750 S2: water species, are moving further south, and they are probably 62 00:04:16,750 --> 00:04:21,070 S2: going to be more predominant in the future in Victoria 63 00:04:21,070 --> 00:04:26,070 S2: and Tasmania. And the bull sharks and tiger sharks, which 64 00:04:26,110 --> 00:04:30,310 S2: are warm water species, will also be moving further south, 65 00:04:30,390 --> 00:04:32,430 S2: whereas at the moment they spend quite a lot of 66 00:04:32,430 --> 00:04:36,430 S2: the year in Queensland, northern New South Wales, they'll be 67 00:04:36,430 --> 00:04:40,670 S2: moving more into, you know, Sydney's waters, for example, and 68 00:04:40,670 --> 00:04:44,870 S2: the south coast. But one of the big reasons why 69 00:04:44,870 --> 00:04:49,750 S2: the shark bites are on the rise is because of humans. 70 00:04:50,070 --> 00:04:54,350 S2: Our population has been growing. Our population has been growing 71 00:04:54,390 --> 00:04:59,510 S2: strongest on the coastline, and water sports are more popular 72 00:04:59,510 --> 00:05:02,710 S2: than ever, so we're spending more time in the ocean, 73 00:05:02,710 --> 00:05:07,390 S2: whether it's swimming or surfing or diving. And of course, 74 00:05:07,430 --> 00:05:10,390 S2: that increases the chances of interactions. 75 00:05:10,910 --> 00:05:12,990 S1: Now, you mentioned before that most of the deaths are 76 00:05:12,990 --> 00:05:15,309 S1: with great white sharks, but it was a bull shark 77 00:05:15,310 --> 00:05:17,990 S1: that was involved in the Bay incident with the death 78 00:05:17,990 --> 00:05:21,070 S1: of the Swiss tourist last week. So can you tell 79 00:05:21,070 --> 00:05:22,710 S1: us a bit more about the bull shark? Because they 80 00:05:22,710 --> 00:05:24,510 S1: are particularly aggressive, right. 81 00:05:25,110 --> 00:05:28,750 S2: They are considered. So I think we we don't know 82 00:05:28,750 --> 00:05:32,589 S2: a lot about the behavior and why they behave in 83 00:05:32,589 --> 00:05:36,670 S2: certain ways, but certainly from our perspective we would consider 84 00:05:36,670 --> 00:05:40,230 S2: them aggressive. They are a warm water shark and I 85 00:05:40,230 --> 00:05:43,310 S2: think they really prefer it over 23 degrees. So when 86 00:05:43,310 --> 00:05:47,110 S2: it gets warmer down south, that's when they might come down. 87 00:05:47,510 --> 00:05:51,359 S2: So they might often be Breeding up on the north 88 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,760 S2: coast and mid-north coast. Then they might. As adults swim 89 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,640 S2: around for food so they can tell from the tagging program. Actually, 90 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:04,599 S2: that certain individuals will come to Sydney Harbour every year. 91 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,200 S2: It's almost as if they have a holiday house in Sydney, 92 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,240 S2: is what the researcher was telling me. Um, and, you know, 93 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,839 S2: every year, a certain time, um, they're like, oh, it's 94 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,440 S2: time to go visit my mates in Sydney. And then 95 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,760 S2: they'll stay here year round. And that's going to become 96 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,320 S2: more common as the season will last longer. The waters 97 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,640 S2: in Sydney will be warm enough for them to stay 98 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:28,279 S2: here for longer. And then, uh, eventually it drops below 99 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,839 S2: a certain point and they'll swim back up north again. 100 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,040 S1: Okay. But you wrote about, I guess what we're looking 101 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,480 S1: to see will happen in the future with regards to 102 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,560 S1: the warming of the oceans and how it's actually going 103 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,599 S1: to change the behaviour or the swimming grounds of sharks. 104 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,840 S1: So tell us, I mean, are Victorians and Tasmanians, are 105 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:46,640 S1: they sort of set to be on notice by about 106 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,810 S1: 2060 that they're going to experience this more because the 107 00:06:49,810 --> 00:06:50,890 S1: sharks will be going there. 108 00:06:51,490 --> 00:06:56,849 S2: The white sharks will be more prevalent down south by 2060. 109 00:06:57,810 --> 00:07:01,770 S2: That's under a high emissions scenario, though. So if we 110 00:07:01,770 --> 00:07:05,930 S2: can curb our greenhouse emissions, then those can stay terrorising 111 00:07:05,930 --> 00:07:07,370 S2: us Sydneysiders instead. 112 00:07:10,330 --> 00:07:17,090 S1: We'll be right back. And so we know that these 113 00:07:17,090 --> 00:07:19,970 S1: horrific deaths that we've unfortunately been reading about have led 114 00:07:19,970 --> 00:07:23,130 S1: people to question the current safeguards that are in place 115 00:07:23,130 --> 00:07:26,130 S1: to try and keep us safe from shark attacks. We 116 00:07:26,130 --> 00:07:29,970 S1: know that Maria Psilakis, who's the widow of Mercury Psilakis, 117 00:07:29,970 --> 00:07:32,330 S1: who died after being mauled by a shark at DUI 118 00:07:32,370 --> 00:07:36,050 S1: in September, that's at Sydney's northern beaches. She's called for 119 00:07:36,050 --> 00:07:39,570 S1: an overhaul of alert systems at Sydney beaches. So do 120 00:07:39,570 --> 00:07:42,210 S1: you have any tips? I guess after researching these shark 121 00:07:42,210 --> 00:07:45,410 S1: deaths about how we can best protect ourselves, given that 122 00:07:45,730 --> 00:07:48,410 S1: we are always sharing the ocean with sharks. 123 00:07:48,770 --> 00:07:53,170 S2: So I think she specifically called for more drone surveillance. 124 00:07:53,530 --> 00:07:57,050 S2: And I think that is one of the most effective 125 00:07:57,250 --> 00:07:59,570 S2: things that we can do is actually knowing what sharks 126 00:07:59,570 --> 00:08:02,930 S2: are out there. And that's also done through this network 127 00:08:02,930 --> 00:08:09,010 S2: of drumlines and acoustic tagging and sensors that will ping 128 00:08:09,010 --> 00:08:11,450 S2: in certain places. So you can look at the Shark 129 00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:14,290 S2: smart app and see where all the tagged individuals are 130 00:08:14,330 --> 00:08:16,970 S2: and where they were last spotted, which is quite cool. 131 00:08:17,410 --> 00:08:22,730 S2: The Drumlines in our smart drumlines all that basically means 132 00:08:22,730 --> 00:08:26,170 S2: is that rather than the fisheries people having to go 133 00:08:26,170 --> 00:08:29,250 S2: round and check each one, they get an automatic pin 134 00:08:29,250 --> 00:08:33,050 S2: from a satellite sensor when it's been activated, and then 135 00:08:33,050 --> 00:08:36,010 S2: they can go directly to the correct one. Then they can, 136 00:08:36,050 --> 00:08:39,490 S2: you know, tag and release the shark in another location. 137 00:08:39,490 --> 00:08:43,770 S2: So it's a non-lethal measure. I think the biggest tip, 138 00:08:43,809 --> 00:08:46,660 S2: apart from. Of course, we do need to understand we're 139 00:08:46,660 --> 00:08:51,020 S2: going into a wild environment. It's the sharks home and 140 00:08:51,020 --> 00:08:54,300 S2: so on. I mean, I think that's absolutely true, but 141 00:08:54,700 --> 00:08:58,940 S2: we also all want to swim and not feel that 142 00:08:58,940 --> 00:09:04,140 S2: we're going to be terrorized. So I think we know, um, 143 00:09:04,260 --> 00:09:09,100 S2: that the odds are very, very low of encountering a shark, 144 00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:12,060 S2: but they're going to be higher if the water is 145 00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:15,420 S2: turbid and there's not much visibility. And that's not because 146 00:09:15,420 --> 00:09:17,940 S2: you don't see the sharks. It's because the sharks don't 147 00:09:17,940 --> 00:09:21,100 S2: see you. And we're not their natural food. They're more 148 00:09:21,100 --> 00:09:23,460 S2: likely to come and check us out and try to 149 00:09:23,780 --> 00:09:25,660 S2: take a bite out of us. If they can't see 150 00:09:25,700 --> 00:09:29,300 S2: us properly and they think we're something else. So that's 151 00:09:29,300 --> 00:09:34,260 S2: why many of the attacks occur in, uh, at dusk 152 00:09:34,260 --> 00:09:37,420 S2: and dawn. It's less because of there being more sharks there, 153 00:09:37,420 --> 00:09:40,260 S2: but more because there's less visibility. And it's also the 154 00:09:40,260 --> 00:09:43,140 S2: case if there's been rain and the water's waters turbid. 155 00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:46,740 S2: They also come where there's fish. So if you had 156 00:09:46,740 --> 00:09:48,860 S2: rain and you've had a lot of nutrients wash offshore 157 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:50,620 S2: and there's a lot of fish feeding that's going to 158 00:09:50,620 --> 00:09:55,180 S2: attract sharks. So I think you can be smart about 159 00:09:55,179 --> 00:09:59,380 S2: the risks. And then there's interesting research on prevention measures. 160 00:09:59,500 --> 00:10:02,180 S2: So there is some evidence to say that some of 161 00:10:02,179 --> 00:10:07,300 S2: the electronic deterrents that are out there will deter sharks, 162 00:10:07,300 --> 00:10:10,300 S2: and that some of the new wetsuit materials that are 163 00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:16,059 S2: meant to be bite resistant are also effective. However, you 164 00:10:16,059 --> 00:10:19,500 S2: want to maybe look up which specific ones, because I 165 00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:21,740 S2: think there's a lot of snake oil out there as well. 166 00:10:21,780 --> 00:10:24,220 S1: Oh I bet. And what about shark nets? I mean, 167 00:10:24,260 --> 00:10:25,780 S1: do we need more of them? Because I know that 168 00:10:25,780 --> 00:10:28,179 S1: this has been a big issue in Sydney in particular. 169 00:10:28,780 --> 00:10:32,460 S2: So there's two types of shark nets. So in the 170 00:10:32,500 --> 00:10:36,700 S2: harbour and, um, you know, many other areas where there's not, 171 00:10:36,740 --> 00:10:39,780 S2: you know, giant bays and fast swells and so on. 172 00:10:40,100 --> 00:10:45,030 S2: You might have a rigid net that completely encloses the 173 00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:49,630 S2: swimming area, and that's very effective. And it's also not 174 00:10:49,630 --> 00:10:55,429 S2: destructive to marine life. What we also have at many beaches, 175 00:10:55,429 --> 00:10:58,630 S2: and I can speak for New South Wales here every 176 00:10:58,630 --> 00:11:03,230 S2: summer from about September to March, we have these mesh 177 00:11:03,230 --> 00:11:07,830 S2: nets at 51 beaches from Wollongong to Newcastle. And that's 178 00:11:07,830 --> 00:11:12,550 S2: basically this short, little flexible fishing net that's just floating 179 00:11:12,550 --> 00:11:16,829 S2: out in the ocean like a handkerchief, indiscriminately killing whatever 180 00:11:16,830 --> 00:11:19,990 S2: comes its way unless rescuers can get to it first. 181 00:11:20,750 --> 00:11:24,390 S2: And they have been used since the 30s. They were 182 00:11:24,390 --> 00:11:28,070 S2: never intended to deter sharks from coming in or block 183 00:11:28,070 --> 00:11:30,750 S2: them or provide any kind of barrier. They were just 184 00:11:30,750 --> 00:11:36,030 S2: designed to cull them and that's all that they've ever done. 185 00:11:36,190 --> 00:11:41,160 S2: They also kill dolphins, turtles, many other creatures and and 186 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,760 S2: harmless sharks like the grey nurse shark, which is critically endangered. 187 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:50,440 S2: And there's not really any evidence that they reduce human 188 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:56,360 S2: deaths from sharks because the statistics are so low. We've 189 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:01,720 S2: had two lethal shark bites at netted beaches, 1 in 190 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:07,120 S2: 1963 and the one in D earlier this year. And 191 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,040 S2: we've got like 900 beaches in New South Wales. And 192 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,640 S2: you could pick another 51 and have a completely different 193 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,720 S2: set of results. So we don't we can't statistically prove 194 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,000 S2: that they work. We can't statistically prove that they don't work. 195 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:26,040 S2: But we can say that there are non-lethal measures that 196 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,199 S2: do work and might be better placed in the future. 197 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,120 S1: Wow. Well, thank you so much, Caitlin, for your time. 198 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:37,520 S2: Okay. Thank you. 199 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,000 S1: Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by myself 200 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,079 S1: and Kai Wong. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Our 201 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,480 S1: head of audio is Tom McKendrick. The Morning Edition is 202 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,079 S1: a production of The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. 203 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,120 S1: If you enjoy the show and want more of our journalism, 204 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,440 S1: subscribe to our newspapers today. It's the best way to 205 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:10,719 S1: support what we do. Search The age or Smh.com.au. Subscribe 206 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,760 S1: and sign up for our newsletter to receive a comprehensive 207 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,479 S1: summary of the day's most important news, analysis and insights 208 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,720 S1: in your inbox every day. Links are in the show. Notes. 209 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,600 S1: I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. This is the morning edition. Thanks 210 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:28,439 S1: for listening.