WEBVTT - Howard Collins confirms EV bus disaster 

0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Sixteen past four. I've brought you the story this afternoon

0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:07.000
<v Speaker 1>about the transition for our electric bus fleet from traditional

0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:10.600
<v Speaker 1>diesel buses gas buses to electric and it's not going well.

0:00:11.480 --> 0:00:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Confirmed with me from Transport for New South Wales after

0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:15.640
<v Speaker 1>a tip off from one of our listeners who's a

0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:19.720
<v Speaker 1>bus driver, that all seventy two buses that have been

0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:24.239
<v Speaker 1>ordered from Custom Denning. Custom Denning is a Sydney based manufacturer.

0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.000
<v Speaker 1>So great that we have Australian manufacturing, but all seventy

0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:32.440
<v Speaker 1>two buses need new batteries. Howard Collins is the Transport

0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.720
<v Speaker 1>for New South Wales Director General. Thanks for joining me, Howard,

0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.519
<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much. Kinton, this sounds like a complete

0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:39.080
<v Speaker 1>stuff up.

0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:42.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think we've got to look at the industry

0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.720
<v Speaker 2>and say, look, Custom Denning doing a great job to

0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:50.600
<v Speaker 2>our only real Australian manufacturer from ground upwards put their

0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:57.120
<v Speaker 2>industry and chose a battery made in Europe. Unfortunately, this

0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:01.040
<v Speaker 2>battery has proved very unreliable, so we have I've agreed

0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.080
<v Speaker 2>with them, we removed all seventy two. The good news

0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.200
<v Speaker 2>though is they have finally dealt with and agreed with

0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.520
<v Speaker 2>the manufacturer of this battery. To have a new type

0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.200
<v Speaker 2>that's been sorted in the factory. Now they're probably a

0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:17.080
<v Speaker 2>dozen vehicles being retrofitted. It takes a while for that

0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:20.120
<v Speaker 2>to be done. There are vehicles already out and yes,

0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:24.119
<v Speaker 2>they're probably fifteen vehicles still waiting to be changed out.

0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.160
<v Speaker 2>This can't be done overnight. It's not just a plug

0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.600
<v Speaker 2>in new battery goes in a bit like you know

0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.199
<v Speaker 2>your video recorder or something like that. It is really

0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:35.280
<v Speaker 2>something which has got to be But are good on

0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:38.600
<v Speaker 2>custom denning. You know, they're one of few Australian true

0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Australian manufacturers. We are buying other vehicles from other states.

0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:47.040
<v Speaker 2>We are We're not rushing this. We are behind the

0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.480
<v Speaker 2>rest of the world. And to be honest, you know,

0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.080
<v Speaker 2>every day I walk out the front door of Elizabeth Street,

0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.840
<v Speaker 2>I hear the smooth quietness of dozens of electric buses.

0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:58.680
<v Speaker 1>So so those electric buses, how that you hear that

0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:00.560
<v Speaker 1>are running? Where are they from? Are they the ones

0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:01.960
<v Speaker 1>from China? Are they from Europe?

0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.080
<v Speaker 2>They're all sorts of different manufacturers. It is true that

0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:09.400
<v Speaker 2>to get ourselves moving, this is a long journey, over

0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:13.280
<v Speaker 2>a ten year program to replace four thousand vehicles. The

0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:17.720
<v Speaker 2>first seventeen hundred are on their way, probably about three

0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:22.400
<v Speaker 2>to five hundred a year. Some of them have direct

0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:26.239
<v Speaker 2>manufacturing from abroad, but we are working with those manufacturers

0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:31.200
<v Speaker 2>to gradually remove the content which comes from other countries

0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.840
<v Speaker 2>and set up factories to start to assemble and then

0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:39.440
<v Speaker 2>manufacture custom denning. It's a bit like David versus Goliath.

0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:42.680
<v Speaker 2>They have worked very hard to get an all Australian

0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.840
<v Speaker 2>product apart from German gearboxes and what was a French battery.

0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:51.400
<v Speaker 2>But that comes with what we call infant mortalities, some challenges.

0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:55.320
<v Speaker 2>You know, when other countries are building seventy seven thousand

0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.720
<v Speaker 2>a year, they've had plenty of chance to get the

0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:00.920
<v Speaker 2>reliability up. It's a bit like a toyo, you know.

0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.519
<v Speaker 2>They're the most reliable vehicle, I think, in the world

0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:05.359
<v Speaker 2>because they've made millions of them.

0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.720
<v Speaker 1>So the batteries were from France. That these are the

0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.520
<v Speaker 1>batteries that were installed in the seventy two buses, so

0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.959
<v Speaker 1>they're now being replaced. My information from your stuff yesterday

0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.640
<v Speaker 1>was that only two replacement buses are on the road.

0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:23.000
<v Speaker 2>They're literally on the road with the companies. But what

0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:27.720
<v Speaker 2>we're doing is there are dozens in the battery at

0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:32.960
<v Speaker 2>Custom Denningside Mary's alongside the Element To vehicles, which are

0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:37.080
<v Speaker 2>the new version of this vehicle, which is a significant

0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.520
<v Speaker 2>sort of improvement and certainly a lot of lessons learned.

0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:46.680
<v Speaker 2>The issue we have here is the battery company and

0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Custom Denning needed to have a great conversation about who's

0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.920
<v Speaker 2>responsible where's the warranty. That conversation took place. It meant

0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:55.840
<v Speaker 2>that for a while the vehicles had to set in

0:03:55.880 --> 0:04:00.160
<v Speaker 2>storage because we didn't want unreliable vehicles breaking down. But

0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.640
<v Speaker 2>there again they needed to sort out with their supplier

0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:07.960
<v Speaker 2>who was accountable. That's now happened. New versions of the

0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.640
<v Speaker 2>batteries are coming in, they're being supplied, they're in the

0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.560
<v Speaker 2>factory and workers are changing those outs.

0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.480
<v Speaker 1>So when will the whole seventy two fleet be on

0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:18.240
<v Speaker 1>the road?

0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:20.719
<v Speaker 2>I reckon in the next few months we will see

0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:25.799
<v Speaker 2>them all back in service. We are also introducing lots

0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:31.279
<v Speaker 2>of other vehicles, the Element Too's vehicles from other manufacturers,

0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.800
<v Speaker 2>so we'll start to see more and more vehicles in

0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Sydney starting to become electric.

0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.240
<v Speaker 1>I've had drivers of these particular buses get in contact

0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.920
<v Speaker 1>would be saying they were seriously concerned for the safety

0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:45.599
<v Speaker 1>of the bus and the past because they would stop

0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:47.240
<v Speaker 1>at a set of traffic lights and the bus wouldn't

0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:47.800
<v Speaker 1>start up again.

0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.680
<v Speaker 2>I think there was that, and I think that's why

0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.840
<v Speaker 2>we took the decision several months ago to say, look,

0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:59.200
<v Speaker 2>we cannot accept this reliability issue and safety risk. So

0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:02.919
<v Speaker 2>they were withdrawn and service. That hasn't put pressure on

0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.680
<v Speaker 2>the bus companies because obviously they lost a lot of vehicles.

0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.640
<v Speaker 2>But now the story is, and it's a clear story.

0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:12.240
<v Speaker 2>They are less in storage, more in production. They've got

0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:15.479
<v Speaker 2>a new battery fitted. We're going through a rigorous testing

0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:19.760
<v Speaker 2>process before it gets to the bus operator, and we've

0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.520
<v Speaker 2>got good support from Custom Denny. It will take time.

0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.159
<v Speaker 2>But like all brand new things which start from nothing,

0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.040
<v Speaker 2>you and sometimes you buy a component it doesn't work,

0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.000
<v Speaker 2>you have to say, let's have a different.

0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:33.040
<v Speaker 1>One, because you know on the surface, I've got to

0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:34.800
<v Speaker 1>say how and it just looks like to me and I've

0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:36.720
<v Speaker 1>been to that factory in some areas and it was

0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:40.359
<v Speaker 1>an announcement made by the previous coalition government, but it

0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.640
<v Speaker 1>seems to me that there's so much rush to get

0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.200
<v Speaker 1>electric vehicles on the roads. We're doing it before we're ready,

0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:47.640
<v Speaker 1>and this was again confirmed by transporting yourself. I was

0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.280
<v Speaker 1>a few months ago we confirmed that diesel generators were

0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:51.880
<v Speaker 1>being used to power it up the buses, which sort

0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:53.840
<v Speaker 1>of defects the purpose of the whole thing. Not all

0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:54.560
<v Speaker 1>the buses, mind.

0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.760
<v Speaker 2>You understand that. But look, the most important thing is

0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:02.160
<v Speaker 2>we want to and this gun wants to support local manufacturing.

0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:07.039
<v Speaker 2>But you're starting from a fledgling organization is working very

0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.400
<v Speaker 2>hard to catch up. You know, we could have done,

0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:12.720
<v Speaker 2>like many people do, you know, buy a load of

0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.679
<v Speaker 2>off the shelfing, you know, entirely from another country which

0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:21.000
<v Speaker 2>they make hundreds of thousands of vehicles. That's not the policy.

0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:22.800
<v Speaker 2>We want to work through that. Yes, we've got to

0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:27.320
<v Speaker 2>buy some imported vehicles, but over time we do see

0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:31.720
<v Speaker 2>the opportunity for local manufacturing like it used to be

0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.679
<v Speaker 2>where a lot of company's got involved in building great

0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:38.640
<v Speaker 2>buses made in Australia, if not New South Wales. And

0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.400
<v Speaker 2>that's what we're going to see over the next three

0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:45.320
<v Speaker 2>to four years, seventeen hundred vehicles will be here. The

0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.320
<v Speaker 2>other thing, and it's not only as you say, buying

0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:52.600
<v Speaker 2>the electric buses. We're opening our first major conversion of

0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:57.320
<v Speaker 2>a bus electrification charging in Brookvale very soon, in the

0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.559
<v Speaker 2>next couple of months, we're starting to see other bus

0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.919
<v Speaker 2>depots being converted. It's a long game though. You can't

0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.160
<v Speaker 2>do this overnight. This is like going from steam trains

0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:08.720
<v Speaker 2>to diesel. It takes time.

0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:10.520
<v Speaker 1>We've got to get it right though. Thank you, Howard,

0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.240
<v Speaker 1>thank you very much, indeed Howard Collins who is the

0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.680
<v Speaker 1>Transport for New South Wales Coordinator General. So there are

0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:19.400
<v Speaker 1>the facts. All seventy two buses need new batteries, so

0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:21.040
<v Speaker 1>they're in the factory at some areas at the moment.

0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.800
<v Speaker 1>They're also being stored in storage facilities. There are depots

0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:26.880
<v Speaker 1>not being used to the moment because they need new batteries.

0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:28.080
<v Speaker 1>They ain't on the roads.