1
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:11,270
S1: Hey, I'm Osman Farooqui and this is The Drop, a

2
00:00:11,270 --> 00:00:14,480
S1: weekly culture show from the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age,

3
00:00:14,510 --> 00:00:16,880
S1: where we dive into the latest in the world of

4
00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,360
S1: pop culture and entertainment. I'm here with Thomas Mitchell and

5
00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,340
S1: Meg Watson. How are you guys doing?

6
00:00:22,489 --> 00:00:25,850
S2: Hey. I'm good. I'm happy to be here. The I'm

7
00:00:25,850 --> 00:00:27,620
S2: sorry to say that I'm not the book person in

8
00:00:27,650 --> 00:00:28,610
S2: Mel's absence.

9
00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,290
S1: Yeah, it's very exciting to have you, Meg, but it

10
00:00:30,290 --> 00:00:33,169
S1: is a very unfortunate episode for Mel to be missing.

11
00:00:33,170 --> 00:00:36,380
S1: She is sadly a bit unwell, but it's devastating timing,

12
00:00:36,380 --> 00:00:39,710
S1: considering that the focus of today's episode is the movie

13
00:00:39,740 --> 00:00:43,070
S1: adaptation of one of the best selling books of all time,

14
00:00:43,070 --> 00:00:46,700
S1: Colleen Hoovers It Ends With Us, starring Blake Lively. But

15
00:00:46,729 --> 00:00:48,350
S1: you know we can hold it down. I don't actually

16
00:00:48,350 --> 00:00:50,210
S1: know if this is one of Mel's, like, favorite books.

17
00:00:50,210 --> 00:00:51,680
S1: Do you have any insight into that? Thomas?

18
00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,020
S3: I can't imagine if she's a what is it, coho?

19
00:00:54,050 --> 00:00:56,420
S3: What do they call themselves? The fans. I can't imagine that.

20
00:00:56,420 --> 00:00:59,980
S3: She's a big Hoover head, but, you know, she has

21
00:00:59,980 --> 00:01:02,020
S3: just good takes on most things book related. So we

22
00:01:02,050 --> 00:01:05,020
S3: do miss her. But we shall persevere.

23
00:01:05,050 --> 00:01:08,679
S1: We'll persevere. Look, the film, the book subject of much controversy,

24
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,020
S1: and there's a lot of behind the scenes drama that

25
00:01:11,020 --> 00:01:13,330
S1: we're going to get into as well. But how are

26
00:01:13,330 --> 00:01:15,399
S1: you doing over there, Thomas? How are things?

27
00:01:15,430 --> 00:01:18,580
S3: Yeah, not too bad. Just, you know, dealing with the

28
00:01:18,580 --> 00:01:22,330
S3: first confirmed case of hand, foot and mouth in our household.

29
00:01:22,330 --> 00:01:25,179
S3: My child is at daycare, and it's one of the big, like,

30
00:01:25,209 --> 00:01:28,600
S3: kind of big three, I guess, alongside gastro and NITs.

31
00:01:28,810 --> 00:01:30,880
S3: I can only assume that Mel also has hand, foot

32
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,350
S3: and mouth. That's why she's not here.

33
00:01:33,310 --> 00:01:34,569
S2: Did she give it to your child?

34
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,820
S3: Yeah, I don't know, but, like, it's just I don't know.

35
00:01:36,850 --> 00:01:39,220
S3: There are one. There's just, like, too many words in

36
00:01:39,250 --> 00:01:41,950
S3: that disease. It's like you don't want three different things

37
00:01:41,950 --> 00:01:42,610
S3: going on.

38
00:01:42,610 --> 00:01:44,740
S1: Well, okay, this is a thing about this disease that

39
00:01:44,740 --> 00:01:47,650
S1: has always confused me, right? Because you've heard about foot

40
00:01:47,650 --> 00:01:50,320
S1: and mouth disease, which is something that cows get and

41
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,020
S1: then they kill them by the millions. And so when

42
00:01:53,020 --> 00:01:55,840
S1: I first heard of hand, foot and mouth disease, I

43
00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,030
S1: was like, well, that's even worse because now a hand

44
00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,660
S1: is involved. But apparently they don't just like, you know,

45
00:02:00,690 --> 00:02:01,560
S1: euthanize children.

46
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,580
S3: Yeah, there's not, like a secret slaughtering of millions of toddlers. Um,

47
00:02:05,610 --> 00:02:07,320
S3: I mean, to be honest, I've thought about slaughtering them

48
00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:08,970
S3: a few times over the last 24 hours because it's

49
00:02:08,970 --> 00:02:10,200
S3: pretty annoying, but.

50
00:02:10,230 --> 00:02:12,210
S2: Oh, no. And you can. Can you get it as well?

51
00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:13,230
S2: Can adults get it? Well, no.

52
00:02:13,290 --> 00:02:15,450
S3: So this is the thing you actually most people like

53
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,400
S3: had it when we were younger and stuff. So it's

54
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,250
S3: not really very contagious. So like I can assure you all,

55
00:02:20,250 --> 00:02:22,079
S3: even though you guys are in Melbourne and I'm in Sydney,

56
00:02:22,110 --> 00:02:25,680
S3: my hand, feet and mouth are completely clean.

57
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,470
S2: I'm making a I'm making a little cameo here today

58
00:02:28,470 --> 00:02:30,450
S2: as well, because when I went to drop my one

59
00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,520
S2: year old daughter at daycare this morning, I had her

60
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,340
S2: in the carrier and she was coughing and threw up

61
00:02:35,340 --> 00:02:38,310
S2: all over me. So I'm in the office for a

62
00:02:38,310 --> 00:02:41,160
S2: bit and then straight back home for single duty parenting.

63
00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:41,880
S1: What a what a life.

64
00:02:41,910 --> 00:02:43,740
S2: I recommend it, it's great. It's really fun.

65
00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,600
S1: First time I've been not the first time, but I

66
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,330
S1: feel very outnumbered. And now all of a sudden, um,

67
00:02:48,330 --> 00:02:50,130
S1: you guys doing your bit for the future?

68
00:02:50,220 --> 00:02:51,900
S2: Oh, that must be hard for you all the free

69
00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:53,070
S2: time and money.

70
00:02:53,580 --> 00:02:55,800
S1: All right, so as well as discussing all of the.

71
00:02:55,830 --> 00:02:58,630
S1: It ends with US drama and the movie itself. We're

72
00:02:58,630 --> 00:03:01,330
S1: also going to talk about the return of industry, one

73
00:03:01,330 --> 00:03:03,580
S1: of my favorite TV shows for the past couple of years.

74
00:03:03,610 --> 00:03:06,459
S1: It's a show that has steadily been growing in popularity,

75
00:03:06,460 --> 00:03:09,850
S1: and I think there's a couple of star studded additions

76
00:03:09,850 --> 00:03:12,910
S1: to the cast this season. It's got the famed Sunday

77
00:03:12,910 --> 00:03:15,820
S1: night HBO time slot replacing House of the Dragon. So

78
00:03:15,820 --> 00:03:19,239
S1: I think this show is ready to really get into

79
00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,720
S1: the mainstream. But before we get to that stuff, the

80
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:28,959
S1: Olympics guys. They're finally over. How are you feeling? You happy? Sad? Relieved?

81
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:29,980
S1: Missing it?

82
00:03:30,730 --> 00:03:33,310
S3: I think I'm missing it a little bit. Yeah. Uh,

83
00:03:33,340 --> 00:03:36,370
S3: I feel like the closing ceremony almost got me, like,

84
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,800
S3: too hyped that it was like, you know, it's sad

85
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,690
S3: that this is now over bringing out Tom cruise. I mean,

86
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,270
S3: I think we all love Tom cruise and having him

87
00:03:43,270 --> 00:03:46,510
S3: on a motorbike in Paris, like, yeah, it feels four

88
00:03:46,510 --> 00:03:49,030
S3: years now, feels too long. And I also think, um,

89
00:03:49,030 --> 00:03:51,880
S3: I mean, very funny to include Dre and Snoop when

90
00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,520
S3: you really think about their backstory, it's very funny that

91
00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,130
S3: they're like the face of the LA games.

92
00:03:56,130 --> 00:03:58,500
S1: It's crazy. It's crazy that they are the mascots of

93
00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:01,080
S1: this city when when they first burst onto the scene

94
00:04:01,110 --> 00:04:03,240
S1: and was NWA and stuff, it was like, shut these

95
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:04,680
S1: guys down, send them to jail.

96
00:04:04,710 --> 00:04:06,510
S3: Yeah, it's a real full circle moment. But yeah, I'm

97
00:04:06,510 --> 00:04:08,280
S3: very hyped. But I am sad that it's gone.

98
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,950
S1: And so you reckon we'll see. Like one for doing

99
00:04:10,950 --> 00:04:14,010
S1: the handover from London to Brisbane or something?

100
00:04:14,100 --> 00:04:16,860
S3: Sadly I just still think it'll be, um, Shepherd.

101
00:04:18,089 --> 00:04:21,570
S2: And maybe it'll be like Savage Garden and Jacob Elordi.

102
00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:22,260
S2: He's a Brisbane boy.

103
00:04:22,290 --> 00:04:24,780
S1: Actually, they're actually Brisbane X1. Four's not a Brisbane act.

104
00:04:24,779 --> 00:04:27,210
S1: Didn't really think that one through. Um, how about you?

105
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,460
S1: How about you, Meg? I actually don't know what your

106
00:04:29,490 --> 00:04:31,770
S1: sort of general engagement with the Olympics was. The last

107
00:04:31,770 --> 00:04:32,040
S1: couple of.

108
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,250
S2: Weeks are pretty high. Yeah, I'm really sad to see

109
00:04:35,250 --> 00:04:38,970
S2: it go because it's just that perfect, collective, easy experience.

110
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,680
S2: I mean, you guys talked about it on the pod before.

111
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,260
S2: It's just you get home from work and you're just

112
00:04:43,260 --> 00:04:46,739
S2: like staying in and everyone's watching the, like Boulder and

113
00:04:46,740 --> 00:04:49,620
S2: lead at 8 p.m. or whatever. What a dream. And

114
00:04:49,620 --> 00:04:51,060
S2: you don't have to think about what to do. But

115
00:04:51,060 --> 00:04:52,740
S2: then it's also kind of nice. It's got to a

116
00:04:52,740 --> 00:04:55,229
S2: point where it's like, oh, what film and TV is

117
00:04:55,230 --> 00:04:56,849
S2: going on? Like, I've kind of lost touch.

118
00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,790
S1: Yeah. It's nice. It's nice that industry waited for the

119
00:04:59,790 --> 00:05:02,669
S1: Olympics to finish before starting, but yeah, I mentioned it

120
00:05:02,670 --> 00:05:05,909
S1: on the pod last week, but it what really made

121
00:05:05,910 --> 00:05:09,390
S1: me so happy about the last few weeks was every

122
00:05:09,390 --> 00:05:13,110
S1: single person it seemed like was across the same couple

123
00:05:13,140 --> 00:05:15,450
S1: of things, whether it was like, you know, the French

124
00:05:15,450 --> 00:05:17,700
S1: pole vaulter who we talked about or the Turkish shooter

125
00:05:17,730 --> 00:05:21,510
S1: or Australia winning gold and the Fox Sisters, and perhaps

126
00:05:21,779 --> 00:05:25,530
S1: none more than the ray gun stuff that happened.

127
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,029
S2: What a way to go out. Oh my God.

128
00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:31,560
S1: Look, it's not even been a week since that dance

129
00:05:31,589 --> 00:05:35,460
S1: really took over. The world like that went properly viral

130
00:05:35,460 --> 00:05:37,560
S1: in a way that few things have in a very,

131
00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,990
S1: very long time. But in the last, like 5 or

132
00:05:39,990 --> 00:05:42,730
S1: 6 days we've been through not even like 4 or

133
00:05:42,730 --> 00:05:46,140
S1: 5 days, been through so many levels of the discourse

134
00:05:46,140 --> 00:05:49,740
S1: cycle on it. Part of me is exhausted about thinking

135
00:05:49,740 --> 00:05:52,870
S1: about Ray gun, but this is our first time together,

136
00:05:52,870 --> 00:05:54,670
S1: the three of us, to talk about this, and there

137
00:05:54,700 --> 00:05:57,849
S1: is so much like misinformation about it, so many theories

138
00:05:57,850 --> 00:06:00,070
S1: and rumors. We've done some really great stories. One of

139
00:06:00,070 --> 00:06:03,490
S1: our reporters, Francis Howe, has done a really good, basically

140
00:06:03,490 --> 00:06:07,779
S1: explainer of how Rachel Gun made it to the Paris

141
00:06:07,779 --> 00:06:11,050
S1: Olympics as a breaker, what the process was like in Australia,

142
00:06:11,050 --> 00:06:13,779
S1: how people within the breaking community feel. So a couple

143
00:06:13,810 --> 00:06:18,370
S1: of bits to unpack there, but kind of like initial takes, folks.

144
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,910
S1: What did you what were your reactions to seeing Australia's

145
00:06:22,060 --> 00:06:25,120
S1: women's breaking entry last weekend?

146
00:06:25,150 --> 00:06:27,490
S2: I mean, the joy that I felt on Saturday morning

147
00:06:27,490 --> 00:06:31,330
S2: was pretty unmatched just seeing those first clips roll through.

148
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,630
S2: It's so rare that you see something like that, right?

149
00:06:34,660 --> 00:06:36,370
S2: Like in what other sport? In the Olympics could you

150
00:06:36,370 --> 00:06:41,050
S2: see someone who's, you know, average to good and just

151
00:06:41,050 --> 00:06:45,640
S2: that harsh comparison. I actually immediately I saw the clips

152
00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,340
S2: online and they're just hilarious. And so I immediately went

153
00:06:48,339 --> 00:06:50,380
S2: and watched the whole competition because I was like, there's

154
00:06:50,380 --> 00:06:52,180
S2: no way this is fair. It's probably just like one

155
00:06:52,180 --> 00:06:56,440
S2: weird little thing. I highly recommend the full watch. Um,

156
00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,650
S2: but yeah, I mean, my first take was that it's

157
00:06:59,650 --> 00:07:01,900
S2: so funny and very confusing, and you wanted to know

158
00:07:01,900 --> 00:07:05,500
S2: that backstory, but then there is kind of a sadness

159
00:07:05,500 --> 00:07:07,360
S2: about it as well, because you think, who else could

160
00:07:07,390 --> 00:07:10,750
S2: have taken that spot? How does it affect the Australian

161
00:07:10,750 --> 00:07:14,740
S2: breaking community? And I mean, it's it's kind of Australia

162
00:07:14,740 --> 00:07:17,230
S2: as a whole is reflected in this, right? Like, Rachel

163
00:07:17,230 --> 00:07:19,540
S2: Dratch is playing Reagan on The Tonight Show in the

164
00:07:19,540 --> 00:07:22,870
S2: Australian tracker uniform. Like that was crazy to see. Australian

165
00:07:22,870 --> 00:07:25,630
S2: Daggy ness is on full display and that's very funny.

166
00:07:25,630 --> 00:07:29,230
S2: But it's also, I mean, not the point of the Olympics, right? Yeah.

167
00:07:29,350 --> 00:07:31,480
S1: Was there any part of you, Thomas, that felt sort

168
00:07:31,510 --> 00:07:35,020
S1: of like, disrespected, that this is what Australia was doing

169
00:07:35,020 --> 00:07:38,410
S1: on the national stage, international stage in this sport?

170
00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,520
S3: Yeah, it was weird. Like, I think you're right in

171
00:07:42,550 --> 00:07:45,160
S3: that it's kind of evolved through so many different like

172
00:07:45,190 --> 00:07:47,860
S3: discourse cycles already. My initial thing was like, oh, it's

173
00:07:47,860 --> 00:07:50,230
S3: kind of funny, but like, surely if I go down

174
00:07:50,230 --> 00:07:53,800
S3: to fucking time zone, there's like ten better breakdancers there.

175
00:07:53,830 --> 00:07:56,020
S3: Like I could just I could just round them up and, like,

176
00:07:56,050 --> 00:07:59,110
S3: take them to the Olympics. Um, and then and then

177
00:07:59,140 --> 00:08:00,640
S3: I thought what was quite funny though, was that like,

178
00:08:00,670 --> 00:08:02,920
S3: at first everyone was like, oh, this is this is

179
00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,260
S3: like a funny meme. There was maybe a little bit

180
00:08:05,260 --> 00:08:07,030
S3: of like an attitude of like, oh, we've done, you know,

181
00:08:07,060 --> 00:08:09,400
S3: it's been our greatest Olympics ever. Like, we've won more

182
00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,820
S3: medals in Paris than we did in Athens 2004. And yet,

183
00:08:12,850 --> 00:08:15,670
S3: like the kind of lasting memory of Australia will be

184
00:08:15,670 --> 00:08:19,360
S3: ray guns. Like, maybe not so great technical performance, but

185
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:21,760
S3: at first I felt like everyone was kind of down

186
00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,280
S3: to like almost, I don't know, embrace the like, Kath

187
00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,020
S3: and Kim ness of it all. And then once it

188
00:08:26,020 --> 00:08:29,020
S3: became like an international thing, it's almost like our protective

189
00:08:29,020 --> 00:08:30,850
S3: Australian ness kicked in and we're like, okay, it's only

190
00:08:30,850 --> 00:08:32,890
S3: okay for us to make fun of her. And now

191
00:08:32,890 --> 00:08:34,750
S3: that you guys are making fun of her, that's not

192
00:08:34,750 --> 00:08:37,600
S3: cool anymore. So it's been like almost interesting to watch

193
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,610
S3: as like an Australian identity exercise. I have kind of

194
00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,350
S3: flip flopped so much on like what I think is

195
00:08:44,350 --> 00:08:47,260
S3: the right thing. And you mentioned our colleague Francis story.

196
00:08:47,290 --> 00:08:49,890
S3: Definitely worth the read because like that gave me a

197
00:08:49,890 --> 00:08:52,680
S3: lot of context and I think, like I basically feel

198
00:08:52,710 --> 00:08:57,870
S3: now we just don't have many good breakdancers in Australia, especially, like,

199
00:08:57,900 --> 00:09:00,840
S3: you know, the women's like community of breakers is very small.

200
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,929
S3: She kind of, you know, legitimately won her way there.

201
00:09:03,929 --> 00:09:06,599
S3: She this might sound really slack. I'm probably going to

202
00:09:06,630 --> 00:09:08,190
S3: make an enemy of the, I don't know, tens of

203
00:09:08,190 --> 00:09:11,040
S3: people that do breaking in this country. But like she

204
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,720
S3: is perhaps the best of a bad bunch. I don't

205
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,570
S3: think we perform well at the World championships like historically,

206
00:09:15,570 --> 00:09:17,460
S3: so I don't know, like it's maybe it's sad that

207
00:09:17,460 --> 00:09:19,800
S3: there is really good breakers out there that aren't part

208
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,070
S3: of the correct avenues to get to places like the Olympics.

209
00:09:23,070 --> 00:09:25,770
S3: But I think the discourse of her being like, oh,

210
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,020
S3: you know, this is like a white privilege thing, and

211
00:09:28,020 --> 00:09:31,170
S3: she's just, you know, cheated her way there. Probably unfair,

212
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,809
S3: even though I understand the frustration that, you know, to

213
00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,270
S3: go to the Olympics and put on a performance that

214
00:09:36,270 --> 00:09:39,120
S3: is kind of embarrassing and perhaps technically not up to scratch,

215
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:40,260
S3: is also very frustrating.

216
00:09:40,260 --> 00:09:43,080
S2: It's definitely not true. She cheated her way there. We

217
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,260
S2: should say that. Like she definitely went through the qualification processes,

218
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,910
S2: but I think it's still a failure of the systemic

219
00:09:49,910 --> 00:09:52,220
S2: system in place in breaking, which is, you know, a

220
00:09:52,220 --> 00:09:55,819
S2: relatively new sport if we're going to call it a sport.

221
00:09:55,820 --> 00:09:57,530
S2: And there's a lot of contention about whether it should

222
00:09:57,530 --> 00:10:00,020
S2: be in the Olympics at all. And I think it's

223
00:10:00,020 --> 00:10:03,979
S2: not fair to say that Rachel Gunn, it's her fault

224
00:10:03,980 --> 00:10:06,590
S2: that she's the representative and it's taking away the opportunity

225
00:10:06,620 --> 00:10:08,420
S2: from someone else. But I think it's probably fair to

226
00:10:08,420 --> 00:10:12,740
S2: say that of the system which sends people through, why

227
00:10:12,740 --> 00:10:15,109
S2: weren't there more scouts picking up people at Time Zone?

228
00:10:15,140 --> 00:10:17,660
S2: I mean, if you're a 16 year old breaker from like,

229
00:10:17,660 --> 00:10:20,540
S2: Western Sydney, are you going to even know that there

230
00:10:20,540 --> 00:10:23,059
S2: is a pathway? The person with a PhD in breaking

231
00:10:23,090 --> 00:10:24,950
S2: is probably the person who will know.

232
00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:27,800
S1: Yeah, maybe it's worth sort of unpacking a little bit

233
00:10:27,830 --> 00:10:31,790
S1: of how we ended up here, because it was, I think,

234
00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:36,410
S1: to a lot of people, incongruous to see Australia represented

235
00:10:36,410 --> 00:10:41,480
S1: at breaking, which, you know, breaking b boying, b girling breakdancing.

236
00:10:41,510 --> 00:10:43,460
S1: It's one of the four pillars of hip hop. You know,

237
00:10:43,490 --> 00:10:46,880
S1: it has its genesis in black communities in America in

238
00:10:46,910 --> 00:10:49,550
S1: the 70s and in the 80s, and in Australia. Like

239
00:10:49,550 --> 00:10:53,000
S1: most people, when you think about B-Boys and B-girls, you

240
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,390
S1: think about the Filipino Korean kids out in public places

241
00:10:56,390 --> 00:10:58,670
S1: in the city just absolutely carving it up. And then

242
00:10:58,670 --> 00:11:02,390
S1: all of a sudden it's this academic from Macquarie Uni, this,

243
00:11:02,390 --> 00:11:05,210
S1: this 36 year old white lady who looks like she's

244
00:11:05,210 --> 00:11:07,880
S1: taking the piss in terms of her outfit. And the

245
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:09,800
S1: moves are not good. So it's like, okay, hang on,

246
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,440
S1: what happened here? And that's led to all these rumours.

247
00:11:12,470 --> 00:11:14,989
S1: You know, there's these weird things going around on social media.

248
00:11:15,020 --> 00:11:18,140
S1: There's this petition that's got thousands and thousands of signatories,

249
00:11:18,140 --> 00:11:22,069
S1: suggestions that her husband was a judge, and he's the

250
00:11:22,070 --> 00:11:25,460
S1: one who kind of snuck her in. I think the

251
00:11:25,460 --> 00:11:27,589
S1: short version of this essentially is like, yes, there's a

252
00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:30,620
S1: lot of B-Boys and B-girls in Australia who just participate

253
00:11:30,620 --> 00:11:33,650
S1: in the sport socially and casually. This sport gets picked

254
00:11:33,650 --> 00:11:36,500
S1: quite late in the piece to be a new part

255
00:11:36,530 --> 00:11:39,740
S1: of the Paris Olympics. The community here scrambles to create

256
00:11:39,740 --> 00:11:43,219
S1: some sort of framework and structure to decide who is

257
00:11:43,230 --> 00:11:46,800
S1: selected to go to Paris. There's a handful of volunteers

258
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,530
S1: who put their hands up. They create this process. It's

259
00:11:49,530 --> 00:11:52,170
S1: not ideal. It's not perfect. There's this one event in

260
00:11:52,170 --> 00:11:54,479
S1: Sydney that's the best chance to send someone along. That

261
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,540
S1: obviously skews it to who knows about this process, who's

262
00:11:57,540 --> 00:11:59,339
S1: got the resources to get to Sydney and spend a

263
00:11:59,340 --> 00:12:02,040
S1: weekend there? It potentially excludes a whole bunch of people

264
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,189
S1: from Western Sydney, like you pointed out, Meg, and from

265
00:12:05,190 --> 00:12:09,120
S1: all different parts of Australia who couldn't participate. And so yeah,

266
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,390
S1: there's not a conspiracy. It's just a sport that's in

267
00:12:12,390 --> 00:12:16,770
S1: its professional infancy. That led to something that looked quite jarring.

268
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,400
S1: And I think it has ultimately it's kind of unfair.

269
00:12:20,429 --> 00:12:23,400
S1: Like I've been at the centre of some social media pylons. Thomas,

270
00:12:23,429 --> 00:12:27,090
S1: we've discussed your recent forays in that in that world

271
00:12:27,090 --> 00:12:32,370
S1: as well. Being the subject of global ridicule is something

272
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,530
S1: like quite intense. And I don't think it doesn't matter

273
00:12:34,530 --> 00:12:36,300
S1: how bad an athlete is. I don't think anyone really

274
00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:40,380
S1: deserves that. I think it's also true that it looked

275
00:12:40,380 --> 00:12:42,770
S1: like a lot of Australian athletes crashed out at this

276
00:12:42,770 --> 00:12:45,500
S1: Olympic Games. You know, like Rohan Browning, who's apparently the

277
00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:48,530
S1: fastest man in Australia, he finished sixth in his heat

278
00:12:48,530 --> 00:12:51,710
S1: for the Olympics. Like it wasn't a great run, but

279
00:12:51,710 --> 00:12:54,110
S1: he just ran slightly less fast than everyone else. So

280
00:12:54,110 --> 00:12:56,510
S1: no one kind of pointed at him and said, you suck.

281
00:12:56,540 --> 00:12:59,540
S1: You're a bad athlete when you're dancing and dancing. It

282
00:12:59,540 --> 00:13:02,060
S1: already is this kind of subjective thing, and you look

283
00:13:02,090 --> 00:13:04,490
S1: a bit weird. You're going to get piled on more

284
00:13:04,490 --> 00:13:06,050
S1: in a way. So I think all of that is

285
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:07,729
S1: like very unfair and I feel a bit sad about

286
00:13:07,730 --> 00:13:10,490
S1: what happened to her, but I also feel a bit

287
00:13:10,700 --> 00:13:12,860
S1: I'm also a part of me that's like, you know,

288
00:13:12,890 --> 00:13:14,809
S1: even though this sport is in its infancy and there

289
00:13:14,809 --> 00:13:17,540
S1: wasn't a good enough process or a lot of resources

290
00:13:17,570 --> 00:13:20,870
S1: to get them there, it did feel like, depressingly Australian,

291
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:24,260
S1: that breaking when these other countries managed to find ways

292
00:13:24,260 --> 00:13:27,230
S1: to send really good and interesting and diverse competitors, we

293
00:13:27,230 --> 00:13:29,600
S1: just kind of didn't bother engaging with it to that extent,

294
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,380
S1: and it felt like a missed opportunity in terms of

295
00:13:33,380 --> 00:13:36,260
S1: what Australia can offer in these things. And like you said, Meg,

296
00:13:36,260 --> 00:13:38,719
S1: we've done so well in the Olympics up until then,

297
00:13:38,750 --> 00:13:41,189
S1: we had this great reputation. Everyone was like, how cool

298
00:13:41,190 --> 00:13:43,859
S1: is Australia? There I became the most nationalistic I have

299
00:13:43,860 --> 00:13:46,590
S1: been for, you know, three years since the Tokyo Games.

300
00:13:46,590 --> 00:13:50,220
S1: And then it's like, oh cool, a daggy Australian in a,

301
00:13:50,250 --> 00:13:53,130
S1: you know, looks like a P.E. teachers uniform, seemingly taking

302
00:13:53,130 --> 00:13:55,590
S1: the piss out of hip hop, hip hop culture. I

303
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:57,809
S1: didn't really appreciate that. And I will go as far

304
00:13:57,809 --> 00:14:00,720
S1: as to say, as an Australian, I felt let down

305
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,339
S1: that this is the best that we could offer the

306
00:14:02,340 --> 00:14:03,300
S1: world stage.

307
00:14:04,140 --> 00:14:06,390
S3: Oh God, I can hear the Daily Mail headlines now.

308
00:14:08,070 --> 00:14:09,810
S3: Yeah it is, it is weird. And she, you know,

309
00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,300
S3: she kind of has said quite openly that she I

310
00:14:12,300 --> 00:14:14,610
S3: think new again because of her like performance at the

311
00:14:14,610 --> 00:14:17,579
S3: World championships in Belgium where all of the Australian dancers,

312
00:14:17,580 --> 00:14:20,580
S3: I think came last. Um, she knew that she wasn't

313
00:14:20,580 --> 00:14:22,500
S3: going to be as technically proficient as the other dancers.

314
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:25,140
S3: And so her kind of angle was to go like

315
00:14:25,170 --> 00:14:27,300
S3: for originality. And that's why some of her moves were so,

316
00:14:27,330 --> 00:14:29,700
S3: you know, out there and stuff. And again, I do

317
00:14:29,730 --> 00:14:31,860
S3: see why people are like, well, fuck, come on. Like,

318
00:14:31,890 --> 00:14:33,480
S3: you can't really like go all the way to the

319
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,140
S3: Olympics and then just like, take a gamble on doing

320
00:14:37,140 --> 00:14:39,859
S3: something absolutely wacky and hope that that maybe pays off.

321
00:14:39,860 --> 00:14:44,720
S3: So yeah, it's very weird that this has become the

322
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,550
S3: enormous talking point that it has. And I guess this

323
00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:49,730
S3: is the beauty of the Olympics. But yeah, I still think, um,

324
00:14:49,730 --> 00:14:52,250
S3: just like for whoever cares or what it's worth, the

325
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,010
S3: goat of the Olympics is the Turkish shooting man.

326
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,440
S1: Yeah, a lot of people have compared Rachel Gun to

327
00:14:57,470 --> 00:14:59,330
S1: like Eric the Eel. Do you remember him from Sydney

328
00:14:59,330 --> 00:15:01,580
S1: Olympics 2000, where he finished last and was the first

329
00:15:01,580 --> 00:15:04,700
S1: time he'd actually swum that far? Because the country he

330
00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:07,790
S1: comes from didn't have pools. And I actually find that

331
00:15:07,790 --> 00:15:11,630
S1: to be a ridiculous comparison. Like, this guy went up

332
00:15:11,630 --> 00:15:14,240
S1: against all the odds to make it to the Olympics

333
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,760
S1: and came from a very poor part of the world,

334
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:18,950
S1: and struggled and managed to do it. And like that,

335
00:15:18,950 --> 00:15:24,800
S1: that sort of narrative of overcoming all adversity and and

336
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,350
S1: making a name for yourself, that's the magic of the Olympics.

337
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:30,260
S1: I don't know if Rachel Gun it falls into that

338
00:15:30,260 --> 00:15:32,150
S1: kind of like going to the Olympics with a lot

339
00:15:32,180 --> 00:15:36,290
S1: of structural support. And tanking is not an Eric the

340
00:15:36,290 --> 00:15:36,890
S1: Eel situation.

341
00:15:36,890 --> 00:15:39,760
S2: I think she's a bit more of our Steven Bradbury.

342
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:41,109
S4: At least he won a medal.

343
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,120
S2: No, but you know what I mean. Like, that's a

344
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,750
S2: celebration of Australian mediocrity. It was a guy who was

345
00:15:46,750 --> 00:15:50,110
S2: losing and just happened to chance it. And, you know,

346
00:15:50,140 --> 00:15:52,810
S2: Reagan happened to chance her way into the Olympics. And

347
00:15:52,810 --> 00:15:54,820
S2: you kind of have to root for that underdog or

348
00:15:54,820 --> 00:15:57,190
S2: you feel bad for them. And like, obviously it's not

349
00:15:57,190 --> 00:16:00,520
S2: the same because she didn't win. But I mean, to

350
00:16:00,550 --> 00:16:03,190
S2: avoid a pile on and ruining this woman's life, you're

351
00:16:03,190 --> 00:16:06,970
S2: left with little else to do other than, like, support her. Yeah.

352
00:16:06,970 --> 00:16:07,810
S2: Once it's done.

353
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,250
S1: Yeah. I want to turn this into a cultural studies PhD. Like.

354
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:13,630
S1: Like Rachel Gunn has.

355
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:15,250
S3: I think the real winner at the end of the

356
00:16:15,250 --> 00:16:18,790
S3: day is obviously the next season of dancing with the stars. Yeah.

357
00:16:19,090 --> 00:16:20,800
S3: She will be the first person cast. And to be honest,

358
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,630
S3: Kevin could probably use the win. It's been a big week.

359
00:16:23,380 --> 00:16:23,890
S4: She will have.

360
00:16:23,890 --> 00:16:26,050
S2: A long career on Australian TV.

361
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,080
S1: Well, I the what I was going to say and

362
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:31,810
S1: you know, maybe this is straying too far into like

363
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:36,190
S1: just social theory territory. I always find it interesting which

364
00:16:36,210 --> 00:16:40,860
S1: celebrities or athletes mainstream Australia is very quick to like,

365
00:16:40,890 --> 00:16:43,830
S1: feel sympathy for and try to redeem and which ones

366
00:16:43,830 --> 00:16:45,960
S1: they continue to take down. I mean, you don't have

367
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:47,670
S1: to get into the specifics of this, but like Latrell

368
00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:49,770
S1: Mitchell's like back in the news. This is an athlete

369
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,830
S1: who is like actually extremely good, but, you know, is

370
00:16:52,830 --> 00:16:57,450
S1: also a vocal, proud black man. And the opportunities and

371
00:16:57,450 --> 00:16:59,310
S1: the second chances afforded to him by the powers that

372
00:16:59,340 --> 00:17:02,910
S1: be seem like quite in contrast to kind of mediocre,

373
00:17:02,940 --> 00:17:06,659
S1: well-meaning like white athletes. I think that's just a part

374
00:17:06,660 --> 00:17:10,050
S1: of the way that Australian society has functioned and continues

375
00:17:10,050 --> 00:17:13,530
S1: to function. Again, I don't want to use Rachel Gunn

376
00:17:13,530 --> 00:17:16,200
S1: as an example of everything wrong with, you know, the

377
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,439
S1: discussion around tall poppy syndrome in Australia. But I think

378
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,040
S1: it is interesting the way that the fault lines have emerged. Like,

379
00:17:23,070 --> 00:17:25,139
S1: who is upset with her and who is willing to

380
00:17:25,170 --> 00:17:26,790
S1: just say she just gave it a go? She's a

381
00:17:26,790 --> 00:17:29,220
S1: nice lady. Let's leave her alone. But I reckon we

382
00:17:29,220 --> 00:17:31,830
S1: probably leave the Reagan conversation there.

383
00:17:32,220 --> 00:17:34,959
S2: I did see a friend of mine said, and I'm

384
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,030
S2: sure a lot of people have said the same as

385
00:17:37,030 --> 00:17:40,420
S2: succulent Chinese meal man has fallen, a new hero must

386
00:17:40,420 --> 00:17:42,130
S2: rise in Australian meme culture.

387
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,770
S3: Exactly. The cycle just continues.

388
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,389
S1: It does feel like this will be one thing that

389
00:17:46,390 --> 00:17:48,070
S1: we do talk about in like 20 or 30 years,

390
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:50,260
S1: and I like that. I think it's nice to have

391
00:17:50,260 --> 00:17:52,959
S1: monoculture again for that reason, because she's going.

392
00:17:52,990 --> 00:17:54,760
S2: To write an incredible paper about this.

393
00:17:56,170 --> 00:17:58,149
S1: A couple of other quick bits of news before we

394
00:17:58,150 --> 00:18:01,419
S1: get into the main focus of today's app. Do you

395
00:18:01,420 --> 00:18:05,230
S1: guys see the trailer for the new movie Saturday Night?

396
00:18:06,010 --> 00:18:08,679
S5: NBC makes more money playing reruns of The Tonight Show.

397
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:12,189
S5: NBC is lucky to have something as relevant as this show.

398
00:18:12,430 --> 00:18:14,590
S5: They don't even want it. That's logical. That's why they're

399
00:18:14,590 --> 00:18:16,900
S5: paying us all to be here. I mean, 90 minutes

400
00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:18,910
S5: of live television by a group of 20 year olds

401
00:18:18,940 --> 00:18:21,070
S5: who have never made anything. Do you ever stop and

402
00:18:21,070 --> 00:18:24,940
S5: wonder why they said yes? A counterculture show starring total

403
00:18:24,940 --> 00:18:28,990
S5: unknowns with zero narrative and even less structure. What the fuck?

404
00:18:34,410 --> 00:18:36,210
S5: They want you to fail.

405
00:18:38,730 --> 00:18:40,050
S6: We just have to make it to air.

406
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:45,090
S7: Am I still in the show?

407
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,360
S3: I am very hyped for this. Um, I, I feel

408
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,609
S3: like Saturday Night Live was a big thing in my house.

409
00:18:50,609 --> 00:18:52,890
S3: My dad's like a big SNL guy. He's got all

410
00:18:52,890 --> 00:18:54,660
S3: the books. I kind of felt like I lived through

411
00:18:54,660 --> 00:18:57,300
S3: a lot of iterations of it through him. So I'm

412
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:00,030
S3: really excited about this. And also I think, like, I

413
00:19:00,030 --> 00:19:02,580
S3: don't know, Nicholas Braun as Jim Henson could be like

414
00:19:02,609 --> 00:19:04,920
S3: one of the great casting choices. The whole thing just

415
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,660
S3: looks like I'm down.

416
00:19:06,690 --> 00:19:08,550
S1: He's having fun in the trailer so, so quickly. This

417
00:19:08,550 --> 00:19:12,240
S1: is a movie by Jason Reitman. It's based on the

418
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,179
S1: real life events leading up to the night of the

419
00:19:15,180 --> 00:19:20,220
S1: first episode of Saturday Night Live. It's got a stacked cast.

420
00:19:20,220 --> 00:19:24,780
S1: Finn Wolfhard, Nicholas Braun, you mentioned Gabriel LaBelle from the

421
00:19:24,780 --> 00:19:28,920
S1: Steven Spielberg movie The Fabelmans, Rachel Sennott, Cory Michael Smith,

422
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:32,850
S1: Cooper Hoffman, Kaia Gerber, Willem Dafoe, Matthew Rhys, J.K. Simmons

423
00:19:32,850 --> 00:19:35,490
S1: John Bettis is crazy. Um, what did you think of

424
00:19:35,490 --> 00:19:36,180
S1: the trailer?

425
00:19:36,270 --> 00:19:40,020
S2: I think it's really interesting, the drama in that trailer.

426
00:19:40,050 --> 00:19:42,510
S2: It was like they were landing a man on the moon.

427
00:19:43,859 --> 00:19:46,919
S2: And even I saw John Mulaney recently roasting John Mulaney,

428
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:50,430
S2: who was a longtime SNL writer, and star roasting it

429
00:19:50,430 --> 00:19:54,540
S2: on Seth Meyers. Also, SNL alum just saying, like, wow,

430
00:19:54,540 --> 00:19:56,220
S2: I didn't know it was that dramatic, guys.

431
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,490
S1: Yeah. The, um, the Mulaney bit was very, very funny.

432
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,130
S1: Even like the poster for the film is so funny,

433
00:20:02,130 --> 00:20:05,700
S1: it says the writers are inebriated, the set is on fire,

434
00:20:05,730 --> 00:20:09,060
S1: the sound system is wrecked, the actors are physically assaulting

435
00:20:09,060 --> 00:20:12,180
S1: each other. The crew is in open revolt. They have

436
00:20:12,180 --> 00:20:14,310
S1: 90 minutes to figure it all out. Will they do it?

437
00:20:14,310 --> 00:20:16,710
S1: It's like, well, we know they didn't like Lorne Michaels,

438
00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:18,690
S1: like the most successful TV producer in history.

439
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,840
S2: I mean, I'm I'm invested in the drama. And I think,

440
00:20:21,869 --> 00:20:24,119
S2: you know, us and everyone who listens to this podcast

441
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,850
S2: probably feels the same, even if you don't love SNL

442
00:20:26,850 --> 00:20:29,520
S2: and specifically in its current iteration, which is not the

443
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,710
S2: height of what it has been. It's this incredible institution.

444
00:20:32,740 --> 00:20:35,470
S2: So much pop culture stuff to dive into there. Well,

445
00:20:35,470 --> 00:20:37,450
S2: normal people go into the cinema. Care? I don't.

446
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:38,860
S4: Know. Yeah. If you're not in the bag.

447
00:20:38,859 --> 00:20:40,360
S1: For SNL, why do you care about this.

448
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:40,899
S4: Movie?

449
00:20:40,930 --> 00:20:42,670
S3: Yeah. It's weird. Also, I feel like that blurb could

450
00:20:42,670 --> 00:20:44,260
S3: just apply to most TV shows. It could apply to

451
00:20:44,290 --> 00:20:47,140
S3: this podcast. The crew is in open revolt.

452
00:20:47,890 --> 00:20:48,159
S4: Who's the.

453
00:20:48,190 --> 00:20:49,360
S2: Who's the Chevy Chase of this.

454
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:50,139
S4: Podcast?

455
00:20:50,170 --> 00:20:51,970
S3: But yeah, I do. I do wonder how niche it

456
00:20:51,970 --> 00:20:55,270
S3: is like. And also especially it's such a like, you know,

457
00:20:55,300 --> 00:20:58,389
S3: American product. Like do people in are people in the

458
00:20:58,390 --> 00:21:00,460
S3: UK going to go and watch a movie about like

459
00:21:00,490 --> 00:21:02,859
S3: Saturday Night Live or many people in Australia would care

460
00:21:02,890 --> 00:21:05,170
S3: enough to go and see it? But yeah, I guess

461
00:21:05,170 --> 00:21:05,770
S3: we'll see.

462
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:10,060
S2: I think it could have an incredible press run at least. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

463
00:21:10,090 --> 00:21:12,850
S2: Because they've done so much research and like the film

464
00:21:12,850 --> 00:21:15,430
S2: itself is modeled together from all these interviews with so much,

465
00:21:15,460 --> 00:21:18,070
S2: so many past cast and crew. And that's really interesting.

466
00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:20,590
S2: There's so much to dive into there, plus the people involved.

467
00:21:20,619 --> 00:21:23,050
S2: I mean, why is Nicholas Braun playing two people in this?

468
00:21:23,140 --> 00:21:23,649
S4: It's so weird.

469
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,380
S2: And he's playing Andy Kaufman, which is like a historically very,

470
00:21:26,410 --> 00:21:27,730
S2: you know, difficult role.

471
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:28,270
S4: Yeah. Yeah.

472
00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:31,050
S2: As well as Jim Henson. I mean, I you know,

473
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,609
S2: I love the guy, but what's what's up?

474
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,190
S1: I think the sheer amount of star power will get

475
00:21:35,190 --> 00:21:37,560
S1: people in. People will just be like, I kind of

476
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,410
S1: know that guy. I want to see him do something. Um,

477
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,920
S1: the other bit of film news that caught my attention make, like,

478
00:21:43,950 --> 00:21:46,020
S1: a long time ago. Maybe like ten years ago or more.

479
00:21:46,020 --> 00:21:48,629
S1: You told me about a movie that I should watch.

480
00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:51,900
S1: And it had that movie had a sequel that you

481
00:21:51,900 --> 00:21:54,000
S1: told me I should watch. And I ended up watching

482
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,010
S1: those two movies, and they probably had two of my

483
00:21:56,010 --> 00:21:57,149
S1: top ten favorite movies ever made.

484
00:21:57,180 --> 00:21:58,350
S4: They changed your life. You changed my.

485
00:21:58,350 --> 00:22:00,930
S1: Life. You changed my life. They are Mamma mia! And

486
00:22:00,930 --> 00:22:02,700
S1: Mamma mia! Here we go again.

487
00:22:02,730 --> 00:22:03,899
S4: Let's go.

488
00:22:04,290 --> 00:22:07,980
S1: There was, um. There was an interview. Christine Baranski, who is,

489
00:22:08,010 --> 00:22:10,260
S1: I guess, like a sort of secondary cast member of

490
00:22:10,260 --> 00:22:14,040
S1: those films, did with The Hollywood Reporter. Uh, and she

491
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,090
S1: was asked about the possibility of Mamma mia! Three, and

492
00:22:18,090 --> 00:22:21,060
S1: she said, very excitingly, that she had lunch with, uh,

493
00:22:21,060 --> 00:22:24,060
S1: Judy Craymer, one of the producers of those films, and

494
00:22:24,060 --> 00:22:26,129
S1: she said that she's working on it. She's come up

495
00:22:26,130 --> 00:22:29,230
S1: with a plot and that she's keen to make it happen.

496
00:22:29,260 --> 00:22:32,830
S1: My favorite quote from this interview, though, was, uh, you know,

497
00:22:32,859 --> 00:22:34,690
S1: she's talking about how this is the kind of movie

498
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,690
S1: we need to get people in the theaters. She said,

499
00:22:37,690 --> 00:22:40,180
S1: it's the kind of movie that makes people happy, witnessing

500
00:22:40,180 --> 00:22:43,300
S1: how much people are showing up for these Democratic campaign rallies.

501
00:22:43,330 --> 00:22:45,790
S1: Now there's a lot of smiles and a lot of laughter.

502
00:22:45,820 --> 00:22:49,240
S1: People are drawn to happiness and joy. Mamma mia made

503
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,459
S1: so many millions of people around the world happy. So

504
00:22:51,460 --> 00:22:53,590
S1: I don't know if she's like, linking the future of

505
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:58,240
S1: this franchise to the political fortunes of Kamala Harris. But regardless, like,

506
00:22:58,270 --> 00:22:59,980
S1: I'm excited if this comes back. I love how.

507
00:22:59,980 --> 00:23:01,389
S3: It's like we've come up with a plot like, I

508
00:23:01,390 --> 00:23:04,690
S3: bet you maybe it'll be in Greece. Like maybe something

509
00:23:04,690 --> 00:23:06,909
S3: will happen in Greece for Mamma mia! But yeah, I

510
00:23:06,910 --> 00:23:08,710
S3: will obviously go and see it. I mean, I love

511
00:23:08,710 --> 00:23:11,290
S3: any movie set in Greece and they make three boys,

512
00:23:11,290 --> 00:23:13,450
S3: so why? I mean, if they can make three wog

513
00:23:13,450 --> 00:23:17,260
S3: boys and you know that I love Nick Giannopoulos, you know,

514
00:23:17,290 --> 00:23:19,180
S3: as if he's one of those. That's a great point.

515
00:23:19,210 --> 00:23:21,160
S1: We can't we can't have the Wog Boy being, like,

516
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,740
S1: the longest running franchise set in the Greek islands.

517
00:23:24,010 --> 00:23:24,430
S4: No way.

518
00:23:24,430 --> 00:23:27,390
S3: Man. No, that's a crime against cinema. So, yeah, I

519
00:23:27,390 --> 00:23:29,550
S3: reckon I'm giving it my green light anyway.

520
00:23:29,670 --> 00:23:32,310
S2: What? What's your take on the Mamma mia franchise, Thomas?

521
00:23:32,340 --> 00:23:35,310
S3: I love Mamma mia! I'm also like, yeah, it's got

522
00:23:35,310 --> 00:23:38,490
S3: everything you need. It's got, like, happy music, famous people

523
00:23:38,490 --> 00:23:40,469
S3: in it, the Greek islands. Like, there's no way you

524
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:42,420
S3: go and watch those films and have a bad time.

525
00:23:42,420 --> 00:23:44,369
S1: I might have already said this on the podcast before,

526
00:23:44,369 --> 00:23:45,990
S1: but when I watch Mamma mia! Here We Go Again,

527
00:23:46,020 --> 00:23:50,070
S1: I was struck by how the narrative structure is one

528
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:52,800
S1: for one for The Godfather two. Like it's exactly the

529
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,439
S1: same thing. And that is a sequel, but also a

530
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,350
S1: prequel through flashbacks, and you learn more about what made

531
00:23:58,350 --> 00:24:01,050
S1: the characters act in certain ways and shaped them. And

532
00:24:01,050 --> 00:24:02,910
S1: I thought I was going crazy. And then I read

533
00:24:02,910 --> 00:24:05,250
S1: an interview with the director, and he was like, my

534
00:24:05,250 --> 00:24:08,190
S1: daughter watched The Godfather two and she was like, hey,

535
00:24:08,190 --> 00:24:10,590
S1: you should make Mamma mia two, but you should make

536
00:24:10,590 --> 00:24:13,050
S1: it like The Godfather, where it's a prequel and a sequel.

537
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,419
S1: So it's a very deliberate choice there.

538
00:24:15,450 --> 00:24:17,730
S2: That's very interesting. But on behalf of all women, I'm

539
00:24:17,730 --> 00:24:20,340
S2: not going to let you hijack the Mamma mia discussion

540
00:24:20,340 --> 00:24:22,410
S2: to talk about The Godfather. That's not in the spirit

541
00:24:22,410 --> 00:24:23,250
S2: of this film.

542
00:24:23,609 --> 00:24:27,140
S1: Oh, that's very That's very funny. Um. All right, guys.

543
00:24:27,170 --> 00:24:30,320
S1: Got a question for you. How familiar are each of

544
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,369
S1: you with the works of one Colleen Hoover?

545
00:24:34,580 --> 00:24:35,810
S2: I have heard of her.

546
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:36,260
S4: Okay.

547
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:37,879
S2: I have been to airports.

548
00:24:39,770 --> 00:24:42,800
S3: Yes, I, too have been to airports, but I am.

549
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,940
S3: I am across Colleen Hoover. I have young nieces who, uh,

550
00:24:46,940 --> 00:24:50,630
S3: get very swept up in the booktok movement, I suppose. Um, and,

551
00:24:50,660 --> 00:24:52,640
S3: you know, any opportunity to mention that I once wrote

552
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,469
S3: a book, but at the at the time that my

553
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:57,260
S3: book was published, which was 20, 21, Booktok was really

554
00:24:57,260 --> 00:25:00,470
S3: blowing up. And my publishers kept saying to me, like,

555
00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:03,170
S3: have you seen Colleen Hoover on Booktok? Like, you should

556
00:25:03,170 --> 00:25:06,410
S3: really try and, like, start a TikTok account and do

557
00:25:06,410 --> 00:25:08,270
S3: some book talking. And so I think if you were

558
00:25:08,270 --> 00:25:10,400
S3: to go and scour the internet, there is like a

559
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,129
S3: book talk that I started in like mid 2021. Me

560
00:25:13,130 --> 00:25:14,870
S3: talking shit about me anyway. I didn't become Colleen Hoover.

561
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,270
S1: I'm absolutely going to scour the internet to find that,

562
00:25:17,270 --> 00:25:20,540
S1: my friend. That's what I'm doing immediately after this podcast recording.

563
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,180
S3: Yes. But yeah, I I'm across her and she did

564
00:25:23,180 --> 00:25:24,190
S3: very well. It turns out.

565
00:25:24,220 --> 00:25:25,389
S4: She did very well.

566
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,450
S2: Very well for a self-published author at the start, for sure.

567
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,150
S1: Yeah. So she started writing in 2011 and self-published her

568
00:25:31,150 --> 00:25:33,610
S1: first few books. I got kind of really good reviews

569
00:25:33,609 --> 00:25:36,610
S1: on different independent blogs and things like that. But her

570
00:25:36,609 --> 00:25:39,970
S1: biggest selling book, It Ends With Us, which has sold

571
00:25:39,970 --> 00:25:43,000
S1: nearly 7 million copies around, which is just, you know,

572
00:25:43,030 --> 00:25:45,820
S1: for context, an insane amount of books like people don't

573
00:25:45,820 --> 00:25:47,770
S1: sell that many books. I think in a couple of

574
00:25:47,770 --> 00:25:50,890
S1: years it outsold the Bible, which is, you know, famously,

575
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,470
S1: like the most selling book every year that was released

576
00:25:53,470 --> 00:25:56,920
S1: in 2016. But it had this big boost in 2021

577
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,490
S1: during the pandemic when everyone was on book talk. It

578
00:26:00,490 --> 00:26:04,090
S1: Ends With Us is a romance novel. It's loosely inspired

579
00:26:04,090 --> 00:26:07,659
S1: by the abusive relationship between her mother and father. And

580
00:26:07,660 --> 00:26:10,840
S1: if you think those two things sound like odd together,

581
00:26:10,869 --> 00:26:13,000
S1: they are definitely. And it's going to be a big

582
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,139
S1: part of our conversation around the film adaptation. Uh, the

583
00:26:17,140 --> 00:26:21,730
S1: movie is extremely successful. It's number two at the box

584
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:24,990
S1: office behind Deadpool and Wolverine, which gives us a sort

585
00:26:24,990 --> 00:26:29,640
S1: of weird Blake Lively Ryan Reynolds synergy. I think if

586
00:26:29,670 --> 00:26:32,670
S1: you said ten years ago that those two would be

587
00:26:32,670 --> 00:26:35,879
S1: the leads in the biggest two movies at the global

588
00:26:35,910 --> 00:26:38,880
S1: box office, that would feel a bit weird. Anyway, it

589
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,840
S1: stars Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, who's also the director

590
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,750
S1: of the film, also stars Jenny Slate and Hasan Minhaj

591
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:53,340
S1: in supporting roles. Lively's character, Lily Blossom Bloom, is a florist.

592
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:57,330
S1: The names the names in this movie are crazy. Um.

593
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:03,570
S1: She is a florist. Strikes up a relationship with Rail Kincaid, uh,

594
00:27:03,570 --> 00:27:06,930
S1: who's played by Justin Baldoni. Uh, most of the film

595
00:27:06,930 --> 00:27:09,840
S1: plays out kind of a straightforward romance story. They go

596
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,260
S1: on dates, there's some fun montages, they move in together.

597
00:27:13,260 --> 00:27:16,320
S1: She works with Ryan's sister, who's played by slate. The

598
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,960
S1: sister becomes her best friend. They work together in this florist.

599
00:27:18,990 --> 00:27:22,030
S1: It's all kind of, like, nice and romantic. And while

600
00:27:22,030 --> 00:27:26,350
S1: that story is developing, we also get flashbacks to younger Lily,

601
00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:32,350
S1: who befriends a homeless boy named Atlas. They become close.

602
00:27:32,350 --> 00:27:36,310
S1: They end up sleeping together. As the movie progresses, we

603
00:27:36,310 --> 00:27:40,210
S1: end up getting some pretty heavy revelations. Turns out Lily's

604
00:27:40,210 --> 00:27:44,530
S1: dad was physically abusive to both her mother and to

605
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,690
S1: her friend. The young Atlas. We also learn that Ryle

606
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,740
S1: has actually been physically abusive to Lily multiple times, something

607
00:27:53,740 --> 00:27:56,679
S1: the film kind of avoids showing until quite late on.

608
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,830
S1: We think it's just like a nice, beautiful relationship, but

609
00:27:59,830 --> 00:28:02,740
S1: it turns out that no, the movie's hidden from us.

610
00:28:02,740 --> 00:28:05,590
S1: Some pretty intense things that have been going on between them,

611
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:08,379
S1: and that's the main tension point of the movie. Lily

612
00:28:08,380 --> 00:28:11,650
S1: grapples with what to do with her relationship and her life.

613
00:28:11,890 --> 00:28:15,400
S1: This this was a very unusual movie. I was not familiar.

614
00:28:15,430 --> 00:28:16,899
S1: I mean, I was familiar with the source material but

615
00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:21,180
S1: hadn't read it. At times it felt like a rom com,

616
00:28:21,180 --> 00:28:24,330
S1: particularly the early bits of their relationship, particularly every time

617
00:28:24,330 --> 00:28:26,520
S1: Jenny Slate and Hasan Minhaj are in the movie. I mean,

618
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,359
S1: they're comedians, so you wouldn't cast them if you weren't

619
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,240
S1: trying to make it sort of funny and comedic. But

620
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,750
S1: then there is this really abrupt and unsettling tonal shift

621
00:28:36,750 --> 00:28:40,080
S1: when the film starts to become about abuse and domestic

622
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,650
S1: violence and you know what to do about that. I

623
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,650
S1: kind of thought it was unclear what the movie's message

624
00:28:46,650 --> 00:28:49,740
S1: was about, some of those bigger themes, so much to

625
00:28:49,770 --> 00:28:53,010
S1: talk about in terms of the movie itself, the performances,

626
00:28:53,010 --> 00:28:56,370
S1: all of the drama that has been playing out during

627
00:28:56,370 --> 00:28:58,950
S1: the press tour. But kind of maybe it's a starting point.

628
00:28:58,950 --> 00:29:01,620
S1: Simple question. Meg, what did you make of it? Ends

629
00:29:01,620 --> 00:29:02,370
S1: with us.

630
00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:06,690
S2: Yeah, it's a it's a strange film. I think it, um,

631
00:29:06,690 --> 00:29:09,930
S2: your perception of it probably depends on how you walk

632
00:29:09,930 --> 00:29:12,420
S2: in and what information, you know. I think even saying

633
00:29:12,420 --> 00:29:15,150
S2: that plot summary, you know, that's going to give people

634
00:29:15,150 --> 00:29:17,160
S2: a different impression if you didn't know there's anything about

635
00:29:17,180 --> 00:29:19,310
S2: domestic violence in this film, which arguably a lot of

636
00:29:19,310 --> 00:29:21,230
S2: the marketing doesn't want you to know.

637
00:29:21,260 --> 00:29:23,330
S1: Yeah, the trailers do not suggest anything of that kind.

638
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,970
S2: No. In fact, one of the trailers quotes a tweet

639
00:29:25,970 --> 00:29:29,480
S2: that says, bring your bring your girlfriends, wear your florals,

640
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,100
S2: make it a girl's night out, which is deeply upsetting. Um,

641
00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:39,020
S2: but so, I mean, I went in with low expectations,

642
00:29:39,020 --> 00:29:41,690
S2: I think. I've not read the book, but I know

643
00:29:41,690 --> 00:29:45,710
S2: the book's kind of notorious for being quite poorly written. Um,

644
00:29:45,710 --> 00:29:48,860
S2: as popular as it is, I think that popularity comes

645
00:29:48,860 --> 00:29:51,650
S2: from the shock and melodrama of it. I mean, the

646
00:29:51,650 --> 00:29:54,410
S2: TikToks you talk about were all like Gen Z women

647
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:59,270
S2: kind of crying as they were blindsided by those violent twists. Um,

648
00:29:59,390 --> 00:30:01,430
S2: so I went in with very low expectations. I thought

649
00:30:01,430 --> 00:30:04,670
S2: it was kind of an upgraded life lifetime movie type thing,

650
00:30:04,670 --> 00:30:07,400
S2: and I really found it that way for half of

651
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,330
S2: the film, two thirds of the film, really cringeworthy dialogue,

652
00:30:11,330 --> 00:30:14,750
S2: the romance it sets up. I mean, as a romcom,

653
00:30:14,750 --> 00:30:19,600
S2: it Fails. It's not funny. There's no real tension or

654
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,180
S2: stakes other than will she or will she not go

655
00:30:22,180 --> 00:30:27,640
S2: on a date with a hot neurosurgeon? Um, and so

656
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,770
S2: I was it was very cringeworthy. I didn't enjoy those

657
00:30:29,770 --> 00:30:32,620
S2: parts of the film. But then I think I found

658
00:30:32,620 --> 00:30:36,460
S2: the last third of the movie surprisingly more compelling than

659
00:30:36,460 --> 00:30:39,790
S2: I thought I would. Not so much that it redeems

660
00:30:39,790 --> 00:30:43,030
S2: the entire movie for me. I wouldn't say it is

661
00:30:43,030 --> 00:30:48,220
S2: great cinema, but I think it's very interesting in what

662
00:30:48,220 --> 00:30:52,180
S2: it's doing. And, you know, there are there are worse

663
00:30:52,180 --> 00:30:54,969
S2: stories out there. I think there were people crying in

664
00:30:54,970 --> 00:30:55,960
S2: the cinema behind us.

665
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:59,440
S1: Yeah, our cinema was full of younger women sobbing. I,

666
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,310
S1: I found that quite perplexing. I was not at all

667
00:31:03,310 --> 00:31:05,380
S1: emotionally invested in the stakes of this.

668
00:31:05,380 --> 00:31:10,570
S2: I think in those moments I was I think the

669
00:31:10,570 --> 00:31:13,150
S2: way that it does some of those violent sequences was

670
00:31:13,150 --> 00:31:17,880
S2: surprisingly Bracing. And I think Blake Lively, who I don't

671
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,370
S2: like as an actress, was really great in those moments.

672
00:31:20,460 --> 00:31:26,160
S2: And the questions it raises and the dynamic it presents

673
00:31:26,190 --> 00:31:29,820
S2: is compelling for a lot of women to think about,

674
00:31:29,820 --> 00:31:32,340
S2: I think. And I think those women who were crying

675
00:31:32,370 --> 00:31:35,460
S2: were probably having pretty compelling discussions afterwards as well.

676
00:31:35,610 --> 00:31:38,940
S1: I couldn't disagree more with most of what you said,

677
00:31:38,940 --> 00:31:41,250
S1: but I want to get Thomas's take on, on on

678
00:31:41,250 --> 00:31:43,560
S1: the movie. What did you think about this one? Yeah.

679
00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:45,420
S3: Once again, good to have Osborne and I leading the

680
00:31:45,420 --> 00:31:46,620
S3: discussion on this.

681
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:47,130
S4: Um.

682
00:31:47,730 --> 00:31:52,260
S3: Yeah, I think I watched it alone in a cinema,

683
00:31:52,260 --> 00:31:54,390
S3: which just felt like such an odd thing to do

684
00:31:54,390 --> 00:31:56,490
S3: for me to be just heading off to see it

685
00:31:56,490 --> 00:31:59,220
S3: ends with us. But, like, I think it's really tricky

686
00:31:59,220 --> 00:32:02,880
S3: because there's so much, like, emotional buy in with this

687
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,820
S3: movie that people have before you even walk into the cinema,

688
00:32:05,850 --> 00:32:10,320
S3: because like, really, everyone knows this story. I mean, we're

689
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,760
S3: probably in the minority in that the three of us

690
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,720
S3: saw the movie and haven't read the book. Like I

691
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,090
S3: would say, many of the cinema girls will have been

692
00:32:16,090 --> 00:32:19,330
S3: massive Hoover heads and were fully, I mean, like part

693
00:32:19,330 --> 00:32:22,720
S3: of this story since 2021, you know, and so like,

694
00:32:22,750 --> 00:32:25,990
S3: I don't know if they care what the movie's like.

695
00:32:26,020 --> 00:32:28,450
S3: And I get the feeling that the people making the

696
00:32:28,450 --> 00:32:31,300
S3: movie didn't really care either. That's kind of how I

697
00:32:31,300 --> 00:32:34,060
S3: felt watching it. Like they as far as I can tell,

698
00:32:34,060 --> 00:32:35,410
S3: there are a couple of changes from the book, but

699
00:32:35,410 --> 00:32:37,990
S3: it's a pretty faithful adaptation. But I thought, yeah, it

700
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:40,120
S3: was like it did really feel like a lifetime movie.

701
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,160
S3: And then at the very end, like, you know, this

702
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,580
S3: dark stuff happens. And I wasn't sure if it was

703
00:32:45,580 --> 00:32:48,700
S3: supposed to, you know, like, leave us with a message

704
00:32:48,700 --> 00:32:50,020
S3: about anything, really.

705
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,830
S2: I mean, I think there's different ways to watch it.

706
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:59,380
S2: I think if there's a message, it's dismantling some of

707
00:32:59,380 --> 00:33:02,200
S2: the ideas about domestic violence and relationships. I think there's

708
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,000
S2: often this idea that men who hurt their partners are

709
00:33:07,030 --> 00:33:09,100
S2: kind of like, there's this thing of the monster myth.

710
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:11,140
S2: It's this, you know, big bad guy who's going to

711
00:33:11,140 --> 00:33:12,990
S2: come out of nowhere and smack you. And he's all

712
00:33:12,990 --> 00:33:15,240
S2: evil all the time. And I think this film does

713
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,490
S2: a good job of showing that's not the case. You know,

714
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,780
S2: hot neurosurgeons can also have massive anger problems and hit

715
00:33:21,780 --> 00:33:25,410
S2: their partners. And those relationships can have days and times

716
00:33:25,410 --> 00:33:27,960
S2: which are very good. And sometimes people stay in those

717
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,140
S2: relationships because they cling on to those good times, or

718
00:33:31,140 --> 00:33:34,650
S2: they're gaslit into thinking the bad times were an accident

719
00:33:34,650 --> 00:33:38,460
S2: or weren't what they thought it was, or a mistake.

720
00:33:38,460 --> 00:33:40,620
S2: That won't happen again. And I think it did show

721
00:33:40,620 --> 00:33:43,020
S2: that in a compelling way. And I think the idea

722
00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:45,810
S2: of whether to leave, whether you should leave, whether you're

723
00:33:45,810 --> 00:33:49,830
S2: seeing a situation in the reality that you should was

724
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:53,340
S2: done quite well. And even with the knowledge of how

725
00:33:53,340 --> 00:33:55,230
S2: the movie was going to turn, because, you know, it's

726
00:33:55,230 --> 00:33:57,570
S2: got this violent edge towards it, you can watch those

727
00:33:57,570 --> 00:34:01,710
S2: kind of more lifetime movie parts of it picking up

728
00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:04,020
S2: the little red flags in a way. And if anything,

729
00:34:04,020 --> 00:34:06,000
S2: that was the tension of the earlier parts. You know,

730
00:34:06,030 --> 00:34:08,910
S2: you see him in the very first time you see him.

731
00:34:08,910 --> 00:34:11,840
S2: He's like thrashing, kicking a chair. There's these violent tendencies

732
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,620
S2: unearthed early on in the way that they're flirting. There's

733
00:34:15,620 --> 00:34:20,360
S2: like line crossing as well. It's like at one certain

734
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,609
S2: point she wants to stop doing things and he kind

735
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,790
S2: of like Flirtatiously pushes on. Those are red flags. And like,

736
00:34:25,820 --> 00:34:30,110
S2: watching those sequences as a women, as a woman can

737
00:34:30,110 --> 00:34:34,370
S2: have a more insidious response, I suppose. So even if

738
00:34:34,370 --> 00:34:39,050
S2: it's kind of boring, it's an experience of getting inside

739
00:34:39,050 --> 00:34:42,590
S2: a relationship like that. Um, I don't think it nails

740
00:34:42,620 --> 00:34:45,440
S2: like as a public service announcement, as a public campaign.

741
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,890
S2: It's not incredible, but as a talking point about domestic

742
00:34:48,890 --> 00:34:51,230
S2: violence and how it actually plays out in real life,

743
00:34:51,230 --> 00:34:54,739
S2: I think it's interesting and worthwhile. I think like the

744
00:34:54,739 --> 00:34:57,350
S2: end is also something we can talk about, the way

745
00:34:57,350 --> 00:34:59,930
S2: it kind of almost redeems him a little bit by

746
00:34:59,930 --> 00:35:03,650
S2: giving him motivation almost to why he has these angry,

747
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,080
S2: angry responses. He's got this childhood trauma he's kind of

748
00:35:06,110 --> 00:35:10,270
S2: responding to in one way, you know, that shows that

749
00:35:10,270 --> 00:35:14,170
S2: these feelings of anger and frustration come from somewhere and

750
00:35:14,170 --> 00:35:16,270
S2: can be worked on by men, which is important. But

751
00:35:16,270 --> 00:35:18,250
S2: in another it gives you a bit of an out

752
00:35:18,250 --> 00:35:21,730
S2: as well. Um, yeah, I don't know. I think there's

753
00:35:21,730 --> 00:35:23,350
S2: a point, but I think it's not clear.

754
00:35:23,380 --> 00:35:25,660
S1: I think that that what you just said then that

755
00:35:25,660 --> 00:35:27,819
S1: there is maybe a point it's not clear and maybe

756
00:35:27,820 --> 00:35:29,980
S1: the end contradicts some of what it's trying to say.

757
00:35:29,980 --> 00:35:32,260
S1: I think that's that's a fair that's kind of more

758
00:35:32,260 --> 00:35:36,609
S1: close to how I feel. And I guess I don't

759
00:35:36,610 --> 00:35:38,080
S1: I don't really disagree with a lot of what you

760
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,379
S1: said there, but I think it's maybe more generous. And

761
00:35:41,380 --> 00:35:46,060
S1: I think someone with your knowledge, experience, engagement with culture

762
00:35:46,060 --> 00:35:48,399
S1: and conversations around this, you can fill in some of

763
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,580
S1: the blanks around, you know, oh, is the film trying

764
00:35:51,580 --> 00:35:54,940
S1: to suggest that she should have recognized that he's abusive

765
00:35:54,969 --> 00:35:57,580
S1: because he kicked the chair and stuff? I'm not as

766
00:35:57,580 --> 00:36:00,280
S1: convinced that one. That is what they're trying to do

767
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,230
S1: in this movie. And we'll talk about who directs it.

768
00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:05,890
S1: And two audiences will walk away with a clear sense of, okay,

769
00:36:05,890 --> 00:36:08,550
S1: this is what bad behavior looks like. This is what

770
00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:12,180
S1: a healthy relationship should look like. I think the part

771
00:36:12,180 --> 00:36:16,470
S1: of the problem with the way that this film tries

772
00:36:16,469 --> 00:36:19,500
S1: to engage with very like, firstly, no one is forcing

773
00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:21,480
S1: anyone to make a movie about this stuff, right? Like,

774
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:25,529
S1: they've chosen to make a film about domestic violence, generational

775
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,819
S1: trauma in multiple different contexts. There's multiple different experiences and

776
00:36:29,820 --> 00:36:31,890
S1: representations of it. And I think if you're going to

777
00:36:31,890 --> 00:36:35,220
S1: do that, you have to think very clearly about what

778
00:36:35,219 --> 00:36:37,260
S1: are you trying to say about this? What are you representing?

779
00:36:37,260 --> 00:36:40,890
S1: What are the risks around this? And I'm not convinced

780
00:36:40,890 --> 00:36:42,600
S1: they have thought through that. And I think part of

781
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,719
S1: the problem with it is this book was written in 2016,

782
00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:50,250
S1: before Harvey Weinstein was exposed, before the kind of MeToo

783
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,750
S1: movement which then ushered in a wave of generally like

784
00:36:54,780 --> 00:36:57,029
S1: a lot of really interesting and good movies that go

785
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:59,190
S1: to what you were saying. Explain that, you know, this

786
00:36:59,190 --> 00:37:01,320
S1: myth of the monster is not really how this stuff

787
00:37:01,350 --> 00:37:04,259
S1: always manifests. And you know what leads people to do

788
00:37:04,260 --> 00:37:08,110
S1: certain things, but also the reasons why some victims feel

789
00:37:08,110 --> 00:37:10,630
S1: compelled to stay, and just all the kind of complexities

790
00:37:10,630 --> 00:37:13,690
S1: and nuances around that. It just doesn't feel like this

791
00:37:13,690 --> 00:37:16,390
S1: movie is in dialogue with any of that stuff. It's

792
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:19,359
S1: just telling this story from 2016 that was not really

793
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,819
S1: well written, that was criticized at the time for not

794
00:37:21,820 --> 00:37:26,650
S1: engaging with things. And if like, I agree with you that,

795
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,980
S1: you know, it shows that a hot neurosurgeon can also

796
00:37:29,980 --> 00:37:33,670
S1: be abusive, but I'm not convinced that's a problem that

797
00:37:33,670 --> 00:37:35,500
S1: needed to be solved. Like, I'm not I'm not convinced

798
00:37:35,500 --> 00:37:38,680
S1: that most people now are still in that mindset. And

799
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,649
S1: I think even when it does show that, I still

800
00:37:41,650 --> 00:37:44,799
S1: find it kind of confusing because I think throughout most

801
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,000
S1: of the movie, even if Baldoni's character, Raoul Kincaid, is

802
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,359
S1: shown to be a little bit boundary pushing, he's still

803
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,600
S1: ultimately shown as being kind of a loving boyfriend. Like,

804
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,149
S1: that's why the reveal is so dramatic, right? Because you're

805
00:37:58,150 --> 00:38:00,100
S1: led to believe that this is a pretty happy and

806
00:38:00,100 --> 00:38:02,830
S1: good and positive relationship. And then, oh my god, turns

807
00:38:02,830 --> 00:38:05,190
S1: out he's quite bad and you live in that space

808
00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:07,830
S1: for a short period of time. And at very quickly

809
00:38:07,830 --> 00:38:10,529
S1: after that you realize, oh, he's bad because something bad

810
00:38:10,530 --> 00:38:12,630
S1: happened to him as a kid, and now he's just

811
00:38:12,630 --> 00:38:15,180
S1: trying his best to overcome it. And none of that

812
00:38:15,180 --> 00:38:18,629
S1: feels like the reality of this stuff. Like, it almost

813
00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:21,899
S1: feels like that undermines what you were suggesting the movie

814
00:38:21,900 --> 00:38:25,740
S1: is trying to do, which is explain that all sorts

815
00:38:25,739 --> 00:38:28,290
S1: of people can do bad things, and we have to

816
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,170
S1: understand that not this guy is perfect. But if it

817
00:38:31,170 --> 00:38:32,790
S1: wasn't for this thing that happened to him as a kid,

818
00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:34,740
S1: he wouldn't have these anger issues and beat up his wife.

819
00:38:34,739 --> 00:38:36,270
S1: And now he's going to figure it out, and now

820
00:38:36,270 --> 00:38:38,310
S1: he's going to end up being kind of redeemed by

821
00:38:38,310 --> 00:38:39,480
S1: the end of it, I would say.

822
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:41,670
S2: Yeah, I do think the movie has a structural issue. Like,

823
00:38:41,700 --> 00:38:44,760
S2: I agree with you that in a perfect world, for

824
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,460
S2: both the movie's sake and kind of social context sake,

825
00:38:47,489 --> 00:38:50,339
S2: it would be good to have shown that relationship more

826
00:38:50,340 --> 00:38:53,040
S2: in the bad times, and to see what it's like

827
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,140
S2: to be stuck in a relationship like that, and kind

828
00:38:55,140 --> 00:38:57,239
S2: of even if she's second guessing herself and enjoys some

829
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,760
S2: of it, more of that kind of being trapped feeling,

830
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,739
S2: because that is the reality for most of it, that

831
00:39:01,770 --> 00:39:03,890
S2: that honeymoon period is very short, but in the movie

832
00:39:03,890 --> 00:39:06,770
S2: it's very long. Mhm. Um, and then also I've heard

833
00:39:06,770 --> 00:39:08,570
S2: a lot of criticism about how it doesn't show how

834
00:39:08,570 --> 00:39:09,980
S2: difficult it is to leave.

835
00:39:10,010 --> 00:39:10,520
S4: Well yeah. I mean you.

836
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:11,180
S1: Don't see that at all.

837
00:39:11,210 --> 00:39:11,930
S2: You don't see that at all.

838
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,029
S1: See her in a very horrific situation and then she's

839
00:39:14,030 --> 00:39:14,660
S1: just out.

840
00:39:14,690 --> 00:39:15,140
S4: Yeah.

841
00:39:15,170 --> 00:39:19,130
S2: Yes. And it's because the characters are so thin as well.

842
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:20,990
S2: I mean, like, who is this woman and where does

843
00:39:20,989 --> 00:39:23,570
S2: she get all her money? She's got this flower business

844
00:39:23,570 --> 00:39:24,980
S2: of dying flowers.

845
00:39:25,010 --> 00:39:26,660
S1: I looked this up because Meg and I watched this

846
00:39:26,660 --> 00:39:28,759
S1: movie together, and we were whispering to each other, like,

847
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:31,640
S1: what is she selling here? Apparently, in the book, it's

848
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,980
S1: a steampunk florist. Yeah.

849
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,270
S3: Yeah. Yeah, I think, like, I mean, they're all very

850
00:39:38,270 --> 00:39:41,390
S3: good points. I just think, like. And I believe this

851
00:39:41,390 --> 00:39:43,880
S3: was some of the criticism like, initially aimed at the book.

852
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:47,240
S3: It's like everything that it's trying to do and you know,

853
00:39:47,300 --> 00:39:49,850
S3: it is definitely a talking point that people need to

854
00:39:49,850 --> 00:39:53,000
S3: discuss that, you know, like what? What? Perhaps, maybe the

855
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,450
S3: stereotypical idea of like, a violent relationship is not what

856
00:39:56,450 --> 00:39:59,060
S3: most of them look like. And that's important that we all,

857
00:39:59,090 --> 00:40:01,540
S3: you know, like discuss and know that. But it always

858
00:40:01,540 --> 00:40:04,330
S3: felt like the, the as far as I'm aware. Anyway,

859
00:40:04,330 --> 00:40:05,440
S3: some of the criticisms of the book is that it

860
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,070
S3: was trading in like the rom com territory and really

861
00:40:09,070 --> 00:40:12,340
S3: trading off of that in order to like, leverage its popularity.

862
00:40:12,340 --> 00:40:14,620
S3: But then at the same time, it's like, but it

863
00:40:14,650 --> 00:40:16,270
S3: kind of like shoehorns in these other issues. It's like,

864
00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:17,500
S3: you know, you're trying to have your cake and eat

865
00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:19,719
S3: it too. And I felt the movie did that. It's

866
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,270
S3: not that, you know, the moments where they showed how,

867
00:40:22,300 --> 00:40:25,299
S3: you know, kind of like confusing or murky those relationships

868
00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:27,760
S3: can be that was done pretty well. But then like,

869
00:40:27,790 --> 00:40:29,710
S3: and again, this is where I think I struggled to divorce.

870
00:40:29,710 --> 00:40:31,840
S3: What I know about the marketing of the film and

871
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,060
S3: everything I'm like, it left a kind of weird taste

872
00:40:34,060 --> 00:40:36,310
S3: in my mouth. The press tour has kind of like

873
00:40:36,340 --> 00:40:38,410
S3: lined up with the Deadpool thing, and we've got like

874
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,350
S3: a barbenheimer thing, and it's like it just doesn't feel

875
00:40:41,350 --> 00:40:44,710
S3: like tonally they've paid respect, I guess, to the issues

876
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:47,350
S3: they're trying to tell us that they want to really

877
00:40:47,350 --> 00:40:50,710
S3: seriously address. And so it all just made me feel

878
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:52,930
S3: a bit funny. And then at the same time, yeah,

879
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,720
S3: like I appreciate they do have to show the bits

880
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:57,850
S3: of the relationship that are nice, but it still felt

881
00:40:57,850 --> 00:41:00,170
S3: it was like trying to sell a rom com and

882
00:41:00,170 --> 00:41:02,660
S3: then also get buy in from people who like, want

883
00:41:02,690 --> 00:41:05,359
S3: to talk about and think about these serious issues.

884
00:41:05,390 --> 00:41:07,280
S1: Yeah, like, why are Hasan Minhaj and Jenny Slate in

885
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:07,879
S1: this movie?

886
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,000
S2: I think it's to create some fun because otherwise it's

887
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,540
S2: just awful. Right. It's like very hokey, cringe worthy romance

888
00:41:14,540 --> 00:41:16,880
S2: and then straight up trauma. Like, you've got to have

889
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,430
S2: something else in the mix. Um, but yeah, I mean,

890
00:41:19,460 --> 00:41:22,760
S2: it's telling that even after the book people, these young

891
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,420
S2: readers were describing themselves as like Team Atlas or Team Rachel. Like,

892
00:41:26,450 --> 00:41:28,790
S2: that's very upsetting. And it's proof that the story is

893
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:30,890
S2: not done well enough because you should not be.

894
00:41:31,070 --> 00:41:32,330
S4: Team domestic.

895
00:41:32,330 --> 00:41:32,930
S2: Abuser.

896
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:33,650
S4: Totally. Totally.

897
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,050
S3: Exactly. Like, there are so many Reddit threads that are like,

898
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:37,910
S3: I read one yesterday that's like, hey, like, didn't want

899
00:41:37,910 --> 00:41:39,650
S3: to admit this, but I actually kind of am Team

900
00:41:39,650 --> 00:41:42,110
S3: Rachel and I'm like, what the fuck? Like this. But

901
00:41:42,110 --> 00:41:44,959
S3: that's because I feel like the book and the film consciously, like,

902
00:41:44,989 --> 00:41:48,050
S3: buy into this, like Stan, you know, kind of culture

903
00:41:48,050 --> 00:41:49,940
S3: that we have in order to get buy in from them.

904
00:41:49,940 --> 00:41:52,100
S3: But then they also want the serious side. And it's

905
00:41:52,100 --> 00:41:54,680
S3: just and like, you know, this will probably get I'm

906
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,509
S3: sure if we end up on TikTok with this, there'll

907
00:41:56,540 --> 00:41:59,320
S3: be a million teenagers disappointed with me again. But like

908
00:41:59,350 --> 00:42:01,540
S3: Colleen Hoover probably isn't the good enough writer to have

909
00:42:01,540 --> 00:42:04,300
S3: done this. But she struck gold and then continued to

910
00:42:04,330 --> 00:42:06,040
S3: strike gold. And then now we're all kind of here

911
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:06,730
S3: talking about it.

912
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,980
S1: I think there's a wider context as well. Like, you know,

913
00:42:09,010 --> 00:42:11,290
S1: this this book lives in the shadow of 50 Shades

914
00:42:11,290 --> 00:42:14,080
S1: of Grey with the kind of romance books that that

915
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:20,379
S1: have certain dynamics around, uh, you know, dominant, more aggressive,

916
00:42:20,380 --> 00:42:23,140
S1: controlling men. Those books have been criticized as well. But

917
00:42:23,140 --> 00:42:25,779
S1: I guess there's a difference between those kinds of dynamics

918
00:42:25,780 --> 00:42:31,089
S1: within a BDSM context and conversation and consent and whatever

919
00:42:31,090 --> 00:42:35,650
S1: this book and film are kind of modeling those domineering,

920
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,910
S1: aggressive and violent things without any like of that framework

921
00:42:39,910 --> 00:42:42,880
S1: around it, which feels like watered down from something that

922
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,770
S1: is already pretty, not great. And then by the time

923
00:42:44,770 --> 00:42:49,180
S1: it filters down to regular viewers, they're on Reddit being like,

924
00:42:49,180 --> 00:42:51,400
S1: I actually thought Raoul was pretty hot. It's pretty cool when,

925
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:53,319
S1: you know, a guy just takes control in the bedroom.

926
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:54,730
S1: That's pretty fun, right? I mean, the.

927
00:42:54,730 --> 00:42:58,830
S2: Film does end in a place where, you know, are

928
00:42:58,830 --> 00:43:00,239
S2: we doing full spoilers?

929
00:43:00,330 --> 00:43:02,280
S1: I think I think at this stage. Fair enough.

930
00:43:02,310 --> 00:43:02,520
S4: Yeah.

931
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,910
S2: The film ends in a place where she. The inspiring

932
00:43:05,940 --> 00:43:07,859
S2: thing is she does make a choice for herself. I mean,

933
00:43:07,860 --> 00:43:09,600
S2: it shouldn't be a shock with a name like it

934
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,090
S2: ends with us. That's about domestic violence. Like she. The

935
00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:15,030
S2: inspiring thing for women watching the film is making the

936
00:43:15,030 --> 00:43:17,880
S2: decision to leave and actually standing by it. Even if

937
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,160
S2: there are these reasons. Maybe he's got childhood trauma, maybe

938
00:43:20,190 --> 00:43:23,070
S2: he has issues. It doesn't matter because it's your life,

939
00:43:23,070 --> 00:43:27,779
S2: and what you deserve matters. It does get there. There's there's,

940
00:43:27,930 --> 00:43:30,540
S2: you know, there's a fudgy stuff around the sides, but

941
00:43:30,540 --> 00:43:33,149
S2: it gets there. So does that matter for anything?

942
00:43:33,180 --> 00:43:35,279
S1: Well, I was going to say, I think maybe the

943
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,800
S1: elephant in the room around the conversation. And I think

944
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:42,420
S1: this helps pivot to the wider context because, as Thomas said,

945
00:43:42,450 --> 00:43:45,360
S1: the movie's ultimately a vehicle for the Blake and Ryan

946
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,880
S1: show more than it is a vehicle to really, seriously

947
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,100
S1: discuss and grapple with these ideas. The elephant in the

948
00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:52,890
S1: room is that the bad guy, quote unquote. Ryle is

949
00:43:52,890 --> 00:43:56,630
S1: the director of the movie, and I do wonder if

950
00:43:56,660 --> 00:44:00,080
S1: the movie would look and be paced and structured differently,

951
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,170
S1: or just the way certain things are shot and the

952
00:44:03,170 --> 00:44:06,170
S1: perspectives were shown would be different if the director wasn't

953
00:44:06,170 --> 00:44:08,870
S1: the guy who was ultimately the abusive one. And I

954
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:11,690
S1: think that's maybe why so much of the movie does

955
00:44:11,690 --> 00:44:14,359
S1: show him just being a handsome, charming hunk.

956
00:44:14,390 --> 00:44:16,940
S2: I'm not so sure about that, because then also, he's

957
00:44:16,940 --> 00:44:19,219
S2: the guy in the press tour who's actually doing the

958
00:44:19,219 --> 00:44:22,850
S2: domestic violence campaigning like he's the only one talking about

959
00:44:22,850 --> 00:44:24,920
S2: the issue. And everyone else is kind of talking about

960
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,870
S2: the rom com. So, you.

961
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:27,739
S4: Know, yeah, it's a good.

962
00:44:27,739 --> 00:44:29,510
S2: Point. He's the guy who came up with the framework

963
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:31,970
S2: for the film, and I have to assume that comes

964
00:44:31,969 --> 00:44:34,940
S2: from somewhere. Like, you think that just because he's in

965
00:44:34,940 --> 00:44:36,740
S2: the main character role, he wants to launch himself as

966
00:44:36,739 --> 00:44:37,640
S2: a Hollywood hunk?

967
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:40,250
S1: I don't know if it's as straightforward as that. So

968
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,230
S1: Blake Lively is a producer of this movie. I think

969
00:44:42,230 --> 00:44:46,340
S1: having a star as the producer. The other star as

970
00:44:46,340 --> 00:44:49,400
S1: the director, there clearly being some tension that has led

971
00:44:49,430 --> 00:44:52,550
S1: to neither of them talking to each other. Blake and

972
00:44:52,550 --> 00:44:54,610
S1: most of the other cast, I think everyone except Hasan

973
00:44:54,610 --> 00:44:57,670
S1: Minhaj has unfollowed Justin Baldoni. They're not doing this press

974
00:44:57,670 --> 00:45:01,240
S1: tour together. Something clearly happened. There are suggestions that Blake

975
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,660
S1: got a friend of Ryan's to do a re-edit of

976
00:45:04,660 --> 00:45:06,880
S1: the movie. I don't know if that's actually the edit

977
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,860
S1: that was released or not, but it is worth pointing

978
00:45:08,860 --> 00:45:11,710
S1: out that Blake Lively or the young version of a

979
00:45:11,710 --> 00:45:15,250
S1: character is in every single scene of this film. There

980
00:45:15,250 --> 00:45:18,790
S1: is no scene of this film where you see Rachel

981
00:45:18,790 --> 00:45:22,660
S1: dealing with anything, Atlas dealing with anything that doesn't revolve around.

982
00:45:22,780 --> 00:45:23,830
S4: That's actually crazy, isn't it?

983
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,470
S1: It's bizarre. It's bizarre. So yeah, I wonder whether maybe

984
00:45:26,500 --> 00:45:28,900
S1: actually we're both maybe right here in a way that

985
00:45:28,930 --> 00:45:31,630
S1: like he's shooting it in a certain way. Maybe he

986
00:45:31,630 --> 00:45:33,310
S1: wants to grapple with these ideas, but he ultimately doesn't

987
00:45:33,310 --> 00:45:36,069
S1: want to come across as a super evil guy. But

988
00:45:36,070 --> 00:45:38,200
S1: then at the same time, Blake's like, no, no, no,

989
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:40,750
S1: this movie needs to be about me. Her and Ryan

990
00:45:40,750 --> 00:45:44,350
S1: allegedly buddy up to Colleen Hoover and the distributor Sony

991
00:45:44,350 --> 00:45:46,660
S1: and like, take control and Final Cut. And what we're

992
00:45:46,660 --> 00:45:49,359
S1: left with is a really confusing and strange film like

993
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,910
S1: that is potentially what's happened here. Or maybe he saw

994
00:45:52,910 --> 00:45:54,500
S1: the final cut of the movie and was like, this

995
00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:56,540
S1: is dogshit. I don't want anything to do. I'm not

996
00:45:56,540 --> 00:45:58,670
S1: coming to the premiere. I'm not doing anything. But it's

997
00:45:58,670 --> 00:46:00,320
S1: been a crazy drama, right?

998
00:46:00,350 --> 00:46:02,600
S3: Yeah. It's bizarre. Like, I mean, it's already obviously had

999
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,180
S3: comparisons to the whole don't worry, darling thing. It is

1000
00:46:05,180 --> 00:46:08,690
S3: very odd, though, to, like, have a press tour for

1001
00:46:08,690 --> 00:46:10,370
S3: an enormous movie. It's like number two at the box

1002
00:46:10,370 --> 00:46:14,270
S3: office and not have the two leads who are, you know, like,

1003
00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:16,370
S3: this relationship is so key to the entire message of

1004
00:46:16,370 --> 00:46:19,130
S3: the film, just not together. He's also the director of

1005
00:46:19,130 --> 00:46:21,859
S3: the movie. She's only doing press with other members of

1006
00:46:21,860 --> 00:46:25,490
S3: the cast. He's doing press completely alone. And it's just like,

1007
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,830
S3: it's almost I mean, they're very cynical. Part of me

1008
00:46:27,830 --> 00:46:29,630
S3: was like, is this some kind of plant? Like, are

1009
00:46:29,630 --> 00:46:31,880
S3: we being played here? So we do, you know, people

1010
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:33,770
S3: like us sit here and talk about it. But I

1011
00:46:33,770 --> 00:46:35,299
S3: do find it very odd, like even just to come

1012
00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:37,339
S3: out with a statement, maybe like to say like, hey, look,

1013
00:46:37,370 --> 00:46:39,920
S3: we had some creative differences, but, you know, we're all

1014
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,720
S3: in support of the movie and we hope you enjoy it.

1015
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:46,219
S3: Like Hashtag Blooms by Lily or whatever. It just seems

1016
00:46:46,219 --> 00:46:48,950
S3: really strange. And, you know, there are obviously so many

1017
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:51,230
S3: different stories. The one that I was like have kind

1018
00:46:51,260 --> 00:46:53,660
S3: of seen the most is that they both she did

1019
00:46:53,660 --> 00:46:56,300
S3: a cut or she actually got someone from Deadpool versus

1020
00:46:56,330 --> 00:46:58,430
S3: Wolverine to do a cut, which is crazy because that

1021
00:46:58,430 --> 00:47:00,950
S3: movie is possibly even worse than this one. But then

1022
00:47:00,950 --> 00:47:03,259
S3: and then he did a cut and Sony preferred his,

1023
00:47:03,260 --> 00:47:05,660
S3: but Colleen Hoover preferred hers. So there's like so many

1024
00:47:05,660 --> 00:47:07,969
S3: weird things going on. And like, you know, I think

1025
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,670
S3: to most normal people out of the maybe like media,

1026
00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:13,219
S3: social media bubble, that thing of like, oh my God,

1027
00:47:13,219 --> 00:47:16,160
S3: they all unfollowed him on Instagram seems like probably meaningless

1028
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:17,990
S3: and ridiculous, but like that means something in this day

1029
00:47:17,989 --> 00:47:20,150
S3: and age. So clearly he is on the outer of

1030
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:23,210
S3: this like clique. And the funny thing is, there is

1031
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,339
S3: a sequel book which is inevitably going to be made

1032
00:47:25,340 --> 00:47:27,380
S3: into a sequel film. And like, I would not be

1033
00:47:27,380 --> 00:47:30,380
S3: surprised if he was recast. I feel like basically my

1034
00:47:30,380 --> 00:47:32,750
S3: social media feed and the internet has been dominated by

1035
00:47:32,750 --> 00:47:35,060
S3: Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds the last month. It's been

1036
00:47:35,060 --> 00:47:38,060
S3: very strange to live in, um, like, there's so much

1037
00:47:38,060 --> 00:47:40,580
S3: cross-promotional with these two movies that have nothing to do

1038
00:47:40,580 --> 00:47:43,220
S3: with each other, aside from the fact that their leads

1039
00:47:43,219 --> 00:47:45,230
S3: are married. And the whole time I've just felt this

1040
00:47:45,230 --> 00:47:46,310
S3: a bit jarring.

1041
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,529
S1: Well, there's even like, Blake did a thing on the

1042
00:47:48,530 --> 00:47:51,029
S1: red carpet where she just chucked out. Oh, by the way,

1043
00:47:51,030 --> 00:47:54,870
S1: Ryan wrote this scene and this balcony scene. I saw

1044
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:57,419
S1: that clip before I watched the movie, and I was like, oh,

1045
00:47:57,450 --> 00:48:01,890
S1: there's like this romantic, funny scene on the balcony. The

1046
00:48:01,890 --> 00:48:03,060
S1: balcony scene wasn't that good.

1047
00:48:03,090 --> 00:48:03,600
S4: It's so bad.

1048
00:48:03,630 --> 00:48:05,970
S1: It's so bad. So I don't, but I don't know

1049
00:48:05,969 --> 00:48:07,859
S1: if that was her sort of trying to just like,

1050
00:48:07,890 --> 00:48:10,620
S1: ensure that there were headlines about her and Ryan to,

1051
00:48:10,650 --> 00:48:13,620
S1: you know, force that barbenheimer narrative that you mentioned Thomas

1052
00:48:13,620 --> 00:48:16,469
S1: or whether she was trying to suggest, actually, me and

1053
00:48:16,469 --> 00:48:19,440
S1: Ryan were the creative forces on set here. We were

1054
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,960
S1: doing rewrites. It's not Justin Baldoni's film.

1055
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,420
S2: I also saw the screenwriter respond to that. She was like,

1056
00:48:24,420 --> 00:48:26,160
S2: that's the first I've heard of that.

1057
00:48:27,870 --> 00:48:31,110
S1: Um, yeah. There is a, um, there is a sequel

1058
00:48:31,140 --> 00:48:34,080
S1: book and it does feature all the same characters, so

1059
00:48:34,110 --> 00:48:36,360
S1: it'll be interesting to see who returns. I was reading

1060
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,410
S1: the Wikipedia summary of it yesterday. Uh, it's seemingly more

1061
00:48:40,410 --> 00:48:45,630
S1: unhinged than this film. There's a weird bit where, um, uh,

1062
00:48:45,660 --> 00:48:50,540
S1: Baldoni's character, Ryan Kincaid is watching Finding Nemo, and he

1063
00:48:50,540 --> 00:48:53,060
S1: has never seen Finding Nemo before, and he discovers his

1064
00:48:53,060 --> 00:48:55,910
S1: character called Dory, and that is the middle name of

1065
00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:59,180
S1: the child he and Blake Lively's character have, and then

1066
00:48:59,180 --> 00:49:02,630
S1: he goes through her diaries and discovers that she watched

1067
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:04,910
S1: it for the first time with Atlas, and he has

1068
00:49:04,910 --> 00:49:05,600
S1: a meltdown.

1069
00:49:05,630 --> 00:49:08,000
S2: Well, are you two aware that the majority of the

1070
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,750
S2: book takes place as essentially diary entries to Ellen DeGeneres?

1071
00:49:11,780 --> 00:49:12,620
S4: Are you joking?

1072
00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:15,260
S3: I only learned that yesterday.

1073
00:49:15,290 --> 00:49:17,990
S1: That's why Ellen was in the movie. There's a scene

1074
00:49:17,989 --> 00:49:19,399
S1: where she's watching Ellen.

1075
00:49:19,430 --> 00:49:20,089
S4: Yeah.

1076
00:49:20,210 --> 00:49:22,220
S2: And I assume why Dory is important to her.

1077
00:49:22,340 --> 00:49:28,040
S4: Is this. Oh, because Ellen's dory. Yes. This book is

1078
00:49:28,070 --> 00:49:29,540
S4: sold more than a million.

1079
00:49:29,540 --> 00:49:30,320
S2: Copies, you.

1080
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:30,740
S4: Know.

1081
00:49:31,070 --> 00:49:32,900
S3: Do you reckon the next. The next movie will be

1082
00:49:32,900 --> 00:49:35,120
S3: announced and they'll just recast, riles. But it'll be Hugh

1083
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,180
S3: Jackman just so they can all three of them hang

1084
00:49:38,210 --> 00:49:39,590
S3: out forever. Annoying.

1085
00:49:39,770 --> 00:49:41,900
S2: I mean, honestly, could it be Ryan Reynolds?

1086
00:49:41,930 --> 00:49:42,379
S4: Yeah.

1087
00:49:42,410 --> 00:49:47,440
S1: Jeez. Well, look. Weird movie. Extremely popular. Is is doing very,

1088
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,050
S1: very well. A lot of people will watch it. Really

1089
00:49:50,050 --> 00:49:53,229
S1: glad we talked about it and had that kind of conversation.

1090
00:50:03,010 --> 00:50:05,830
S1: The other thing that we wanted to discuss on the

1091
00:50:05,830 --> 00:50:09,400
S1: podcast this week is the return of one of my

1092
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,980
S1: favorite shows, Thomas. I think it's become one of your

1093
00:50:11,980 --> 00:50:14,469
S1: favorite shows as well. Meg I believe it's a show

1094
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:17,320
S1: you've seen one episode of since I Ambushed You, with

1095
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:18,850
S1: the fact that we were going to talk about it.

1096
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,130
S2: Correct. I watched one episode last night, so I'm ready

1097
00:50:21,130 --> 00:50:21,939
S2: to go.

1098
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:26,920
S1: Um, it is industry HBO show. It airs on Binge

1099
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,589
S1: in Australia. It comes out Monday every week. Season three

1100
00:50:29,590 --> 00:50:31,960
S1: premiered this week. Thomas, do you want to do you

1101
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:33,670
S1: want to give us a bit of a rundown of industry?

1102
00:50:33,670 --> 00:50:35,350
S1: What's it about? Why do we love it before we

1103
00:50:35,350 --> 00:50:37,930
S1: talk about the return of the show?

1104
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,509
S3: Yes. Well, I will quote one of the great minds

1105
00:50:40,510 --> 00:50:42,700
S3: of our time in that it is the Gossip Girl

1106
00:50:42,700 --> 00:50:46,910
S3: of investment banking, essentially. Um, which is a quote that

1107
00:50:46,910 --> 00:50:51,710
S3: I made up all by myself. But anyway, basically everyone, uh, basically, look,

1108
00:50:51,739 --> 00:50:53,899
S3: as you said, season three just started, but basically industry

1109
00:50:53,900 --> 00:50:56,150
S3: is a show kind of set in the high stakes

1110
00:50:56,150 --> 00:50:59,060
S3: world of investment banking, a world that I know nothing about.

1111
00:50:59,060 --> 00:51:02,270
S3: But I get so, like hyped by the numbers anyway.

1112
00:51:02,270 --> 00:51:05,029
S3: And it basically, like, focused on the sales floor of

1113
00:51:05,030 --> 00:51:08,030
S3: the fictional financial institution Pierpoint, which I guess is like

1114
00:51:08,060 --> 00:51:10,970
S3: a Goldman's. It's a private equity firm, and each year

1115
00:51:10,969 --> 00:51:13,430
S3: they take in like a new batch of graduates fresh

1116
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:15,230
S3: out of college. And that's kind of where the show

1117
00:51:15,230 --> 00:51:18,260
S3: picks up. The first season aired in 2020. We meet

1118
00:51:18,260 --> 00:51:21,140
S3: this batch of graduates, um, and they're basically told from

1119
00:51:21,140 --> 00:51:23,630
S3: the get go at the end of, you know, your

1120
00:51:23,630 --> 00:51:25,820
S3: first six months slash the end of the first season,

1121
00:51:25,820 --> 00:51:28,460
S3: only a few of you will be kept on. Um, so, like,

1122
00:51:28,489 --> 00:51:30,469
S3: you know, the entire first season is kind of imbued

1123
00:51:30,469 --> 00:51:32,450
S3: with this tension of that some of these people will

1124
00:51:32,450 --> 00:51:36,290
S3: not survive. Uh, and basically it kind of then throws

1125
00:51:36,290 --> 00:51:39,169
S3: us into this high stakes world where they're dealing with,

1126
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,690
S3: you know, sickening amounts of money every day, but also

1127
00:51:41,690 --> 00:51:44,500
S3: so much of their role. And that industry is about

1128
00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:47,800
S3: networking and going out and getting to know your clients

1129
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,830
S3: in a deeper level. There's like sex, there is a

1130
00:51:50,860 --> 00:51:53,739
S3: lot of drugs, there is a lot of relationships blowing up,

1131
00:51:53,739 --> 00:51:56,440
S3: people falling in and out of love. It really is

1132
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,380
S3: a show that has it all kind of, I guess,

1133
00:51:59,410 --> 00:52:02,350
S3: like the the person we follow the most is Harper.

1134
00:52:02,350 --> 00:52:04,480
S3: She's a young American girl who moves to London, which

1135
00:52:04,510 --> 00:52:06,730
S3: is where the show is set, and she's like kind

1136
00:52:06,730 --> 00:52:09,370
S3: of a genius, but also the queen of self sabotage.

1137
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,920
S3: But she she leads this group of young graduates that

1138
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,739
S3: we follow through from season one to season three, which

1139
00:52:14,739 --> 00:52:16,360
S3: is where we pick up right now.

1140
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,260
S1: Nice one. Thank you. Great breakdown. Meg, the episode that

1141
00:52:20,260 --> 00:52:21,880
S1: you've watched is that the pilot of season one?

1142
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:26,770
S4: It sure was directed by Lena Dunham. Is it really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

1143
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,690
S2: Well, well, my impression was it's kind of skins meets suits.

1144
00:52:31,690 --> 00:52:32,860
S2: Does that carry on?

1145
00:52:32,860 --> 00:52:35,980
S1: Well some people. Okay, that's so interesting because the first

1146
00:52:35,980 --> 00:52:37,870
S1: episode of the show, despite all the hype about Lena

1147
00:52:37,870 --> 00:52:39,940
S1: Dunham directing it, I think is like maybe one of

1148
00:52:39,940 --> 00:52:44,700
S1: the worst. I think the show Tonally and, like performance wise,

1149
00:52:44,700 --> 00:52:47,370
S1: finds a different groove and I would call it more

1150
00:52:47,370 --> 00:52:49,260
S1: euphoria meets succession.

1151
00:52:49,410 --> 00:52:49,739
S4: Okay.

1152
00:52:50,010 --> 00:52:52,469
S1: So skins versus suits is kind of like the B-grade version.

1153
00:52:52,500 --> 00:52:52,860
S1: I agree.

1154
00:52:53,070 --> 00:52:55,770
S2: Yeah. I mean, yeah, it was all right. That was

1155
00:52:55,770 --> 00:52:58,290
S2: my review of the first episode. Did she continue directing or.

1156
00:52:58,290 --> 00:52:59,760
S4: Just no telling?

1157
00:52:59,790 --> 00:53:02,220
S1: Yeah, well, I think I think what is really interesting

1158
00:53:02,219 --> 00:53:05,130
S1: about this show and, and I think this extends into

1159
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,170
S1: season three as well. We've talked a bit on this

1160
00:53:07,170 --> 00:53:10,890
S1: podcast about what television kind of used to be versus

1161
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,710
S1: what television is now. Right. And so right now, the

1162
00:53:13,710 --> 00:53:15,810
S1: kinds of shows that we all love, shows like succession,

1163
00:53:15,810 --> 00:53:19,590
S1: shows like The Bear, there are these, you know, really

1164
00:53:19,590 --> 00:53:24,779
S1: complicated thought through developed rich characters who are interacting with

1165
00:53:24,780 --> 00:53:27,270
S1: the purpose of going somewhere. And these stories, episode by

1166
00:53:27,270 --> 00:53:30,810
S1: episode of season by season, have these very specific self-contained arcs,

1167
00:53:30,810 --> 00:53:34,290
S1: and we're kind of being pushed gently towards a direction

1168
00:53:34,290 --> 00:53:37,770
S1: compared to shows of yesteryear, which are just like, here's

1169
00:53:37,770 --> 00:53:40,080
S1: a bunch of characters. They're going to get stuff thrown

1170
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:41,640
S1: at them, they're going to have to handle it. There's

1171
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:43,290
S1: going to be new challenges. We don't really know where

1172
00:53:43,290 --> 00:53:45,150
S1: the show is going, but we're kind of like seeing

1173
00:53:45,150 --> 00:53:47,640
S1: these guys hang out, interact. Maybe some of them date,

1174
00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:49,620
S1: maybe some of them break up. They get into fights.

1175
00:53:49,620 --> 00:53:52,530
S1: This feels like a really interesting blend of both of

1176
00:53:52,530 --> 00:53:55,890
S1: those things. It has a really interesting prestige vibe in

1177
00:53:55,890 --> 00:53:59,970
S1: terms of the writing and the cast and the performances,

1178
00:53:59,969 --> 00:54:03,900
S1: the sets, the the kind of sharp, sleek way the

1179
00:54:03,900 --> 00:54:08,279
S1: show looks and feels and the way it grapples with like,

1180
00:54:08,310 --> 00:54:11,460
S1: pretty contemporary and interesting political issues. The second season, for example,

1181
00:54:11,489 --> 00:54:16,410
S1: is set immediately like after like Covid has stopped, you know,

1182
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,719
S1: lockdowns and stuff have ended, people coming back to the workplace,

1183
00:54:18,750 --> 00:54:21,870
S1: a lot of discussion around like the financial impact of that,

1184
00:54:21,870 --> 00:54:24,330
S1: the mental impact of that on people, what that did

1185
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:27,570
S1: to the world, as well as people's one on one relationships.

1186
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:32,160
S1: Season three is very firmly like set now debates around

1187
00:54:32,190 --> 00:54:36,420
S1: like wokeness and environmental sustainability and gender equality and finance

1188
00:54:36,450 --> 00:54:39,090
S1: and people on different sides of those debates. So it's

1189
00:54:39,090 --> 00:54:42,100
S1: punching at a, you know, pretty high range in terms

1190
00:54:42,100 --> 00:54:44,530
S1: of the themes and the ideas, but then it's also

1191
00:54:44,530 --> 00:54:46,930
S1: just about a bunch of like kind of young people

1192
00:54:46,930 --> 00:54:51,129
S1: in their 20s who's smart in their workplace sense, but

1193
00:54:51,130 --> 00:54:52,690
S1: also kind of dumb because they're young people in their

1194
00:54:52,690 --> 00:54:55,150
S1: 20s and keep doing coke in the middle of the

1195
00:54:55,150 --> 00:54:58,180
S1: week and keep sleeping with each other when they probably shouldn't.

1196
00:54:58,330 --> 00:55:00,969
S1: And I actually love the fact that those two things

1197
00:55:00,969 --> 00:55:03,460
S1: are melding really well. Like over the last few years,

1198
00:55:03,460 --> 00:55:05,799
S1: I've come to love these characters as weird as they

1199
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,080
S1: all are. And it's like, what will happen to now? Like,

1200
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,180
S1: what's Yasmin going to do? What? What are all these

1201
00:55:10,180 --> 00:55:14,410
S1: guys up to? And I invested in them as characters,

1202
00:55:14,410 --> 00:55:17,710
S1: but also loved the way that the show's writers use

1203
00:55:17,710 --> 00:55:21,880
S1: the concept as a vehicle to discuss, like, contemporary social

1204
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,720
S1: and political stuff. And I think my initial reaction to

1205
00:55:25,750 --> 00:55:28,000
S1: the pilot was similar to yours. I was like, this

1206
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,279
S1: feels like okay, but like maybe a bit mid-tier. I

1207
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,320
S1: think it just gets better and better and better and better.

1208
00:55:32,350 --> 00:55:34,150
S1: And I think season two is a level up from

1209
00:55:34,150 --> 00:55:37,570
S1: season one. And I think season three from the premiere

1210
00:55:37,570 --> 00:55:40,850
S1: that we've seen is a significant level up again. How

1211
00:55:40,850 --> 00:55:42,950
S1: did you find the premiere of season three? Thomas.

1212
00:55:42,980 --> 00:55:43,460
S4: Yeah.

1213
00:55:43,730 --> 00:55:46,070
S3: Again, I thought, like, it is so rare for shows

1214
00:55:46,070 --> 00:55:48,049
S3: to just keep getting better and better, and probably is

1215
00:55:48,050 --> 00:55:50,120
S3: a show where you need to stick with the three

1216
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,859
S3: episode rule that you have to watch at least three

1217
00:55:51,860 --> 00:55:55,339
S3: of the first season to really, like, get into the world. Um, yeah,

1218
00:55:55,370 --> 00:55:57,259
S3: I thought season three premiere was great. The fact that

1219
00:55:57,260 --> 00:55:59,540
S3: we now have this kind of new character in that

1220
00:55:59,570 --> 00:56:01,820
S3: in Kit Harington, it's like a bit of a star power.

1221
00:56:01,820 --> 00:56:03,830
S3: And yeah, the fact that it is looking at contemporary

1222
00:56:03,830 --> 00:56:05,900
S3: issues and, you know, this whole like the kind of

1223
00:56:05,930 --> 00:56:09,200
S3: conscious investor, the clean energy that being a space that

1224
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,870
S3: people want to align themselves either because they really want

1225
00:56:11,870 --> 00:56:14,540
S3: to or they want to appear to be good. Um,

1226
00:56:14,570 --> 00:56:16,520
S3: it is impressive that they've managed to keep such a

1227
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,800
S3: finger on the pulse, but then, yeah, at the same time,

1228
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:20,840
S3: I'm like, it is fun watching these young, hot people

1229
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:22,759
S3: do like coke on the weekend and stumble out of

1230
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:24,680
S3: the club and then like, change their shirt in the

1231
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,710
S3: company bathroom and be like, I'm good to go, everybody. Um,

1232
00:56:27,710 --> 00:56:31,100
S3: so yeah, it gets like the mix really, right, I think, um,

1233
00:56:31,100 --> 00:56:33,680
S3: I still can't shake that. There is a sense maybe

1234
00:56:33,830 --> 00:56:36,739
S3: to have a, you know, a throwback reference has industry

1235
00:56:36,790 --> 00:56:39,339
S3: kind of Steven Bradbury its way into the dialogue. A

1236
00:56:39,340 --> 00:56:42,190
S3: lot of the other shows have fallen off, like succession

1237
00:56:42,190 --> 00:56:44,740
S3: is no longer around to compete with like this. This

1238
00:56:44,739 --> 00:56:46,450
S3: show has been around for a little while, and it's

1239
00:56:46,450 --> 00:56:49,420
S3: never it's always been like close but never quite there.

1240
00:56:49,420 --> 00:56:51,430
S3: Whereas as you said, it's now got this prime time

1241
00:56:51,460 --> 00:56:54,399
S3: HBO slot on the Sunday night, which is historically the

1242
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:56,169
S3: slot given to, you know, the most talked about show

1243
00:56:56,170 --> 00:56:58,630
S3: on the planet. And maybe industry just had to like,

1244
00:56:58,660 --> 00:57:01,060
S3: wait its turn. And luckily, this season does seem to

1245
00:57:01,060 --> 00:57:03,129
S3: be like the best one yet. But I don't know.

1246
00:57:03,130 --> 00:57:04,509
S3: I don't know if I could ever put it into

1247
00:57:04,510 --> 00:57:07,750
S3: this succession tier category, but it's very close.

1248
00:57:08,050 --> 00:57:10,210
S1: I think that's a really interesting question. I think that

1249
00:57:10,210 --> 00:57:12,460
S1: I think what's interesting is that the different shows that

1250
00:57:12,460 --> 00:57:15,069
S1: are going in different trajectories, like we talked last week,

1251
00:57:15,070 --> 00:57:17,830
S1: we talked the week before about the season three problem

1252
00:57:17,830 --> 00:57:20,740
S1: so many shows have where clearly some auteur had this

1253
00:57:20,740 --> 00:57:24,610
S1: great vision to tell a particular story. They executed it

1254
00:57:24,610 --> 00:57:27,160
S1: in season one. They got greenlit for season two, and

1255
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,050
S1: by season three they're kind of like, what are we

1256
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:31,180
S1: doing here now? Like, this is not what we wanted

1257
00:57:31,180 --> 00:57:33,430
S1: to do. Whereas this show had the opposite. They had

1258
00:57:33,430 --> 00:57:36,090
S1: such a big and interesting cast, kind of of a

1259
00:57:36,090 --> 00:57:39,060
S1: lot of unknowns initially. And still a lot of these

1260
00:57:39,090 --> 00:57:43,110
S1: actors aren't necessarily super famous, and that means you meet

1261
00:57:43,110 --> 00:57:46,860
S1: them without any sense of expectation. You get to watch

1262
00:57:46,860 --> 00:57:49,110
S1: them settle into their groove. And I think, like the

1263
00:57:49,110 --> 00:57:52,230
S1: old network shows, when there were 25 episodes a year,

1264
00:57:52,260 --> 00:57:55,560
S1: you know you love it when I talk about that. Thomas. Um,

1265
00:57:55,590 --> 00:57:58,140
S1: over the course of each season and over the course

1266
00:57:58,140 --> 00:58:01,740
S1: of multiple seasons, the show adapts to like what these

1267
00:58:01,740 --> 00:58:03,960
S1: characters are good at. What are the interesting dynamics? What

1268
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,780
S1: if we threw Eric in a room with Harper for

1269
00:58:06,780 --> 00:58:09,120
S1: a few episodes? What if it's now Yasmine and Eric

1270
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,760
S1: doing coke in her lawyer's office? Like, what does that

1271
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,220
S1: throw up? And that's a fun place to exist in.

1272
00:58:14,220 --> 00:58:16,980
S1: I think that's what TV can do at its best.

1273
00:58:16,980 --> 00:58:19,620
S1: I think that's really different to something like succession or

1274
00:58:19,650 --> 00:58:22,470
S1: even The Bear, which isn't about maybe just like chucking

1275
00:58:22,470 --> 00:58:26,220
S1: characters together and seeing what happens. It's about extremely, extremely

1276
00:58:26,220 --> 00:58:29,730
S1: tight and sharp writing, executed at a very high level

1277
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,970
S1: by very famous, successful like theater actors that have been

1278
00:58:32,970 --> 00:58:34,620
S1: around for 30 or 40 years.

1279
00:58:34,650 --> 00:58:36,390
S3: Yeah. And I think I mean, like I said, it

1280
00:58:36,390 --> 00:58:39,180
S3: is very odd. I guess it is similar to what

1281
00:58:39,210 --> 00:58:41,550
S3: I experienced in succession. What we all kind of did

1282
00:58:41,580 --> 00:58:44,610
S3: is that like, you know, you find yourself so immersed

1283
00:58:44,610 --> 00:58:46,560
S3: in these scenes that they're like yelling at each other

1284
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:48,570
S3: and the tension is ramping up about something. I have

1285
00:58:48,570 --> 00:58:51,090
S3: no idea what any of it actually means. So like,

1286
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,120
S3: they're like 44 points at 45,000,003 quarters and I'm like,

1287
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:55,320
S3: oh my God, they're not going to do it. Are

1288
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:59,340
S3: they like I don't. And then same thing £4.80 a share.

1289
00:58:59,340 --> 00:59:01,860
S3: That's crazy. Yeah exactly. And succession they used to do

1290
00:59:01,890 --> 00:59:04,050
S3: like have like similar business chat and I'd be like

1291
00:59:04,170 --> 00:59:06,390
S3: this is insane. They're about to make this decision not

1292
00:59:06,390 --> 00:59:10,860
S3: knowing anything that's going on. So yeah like it's it's

1293
00:59:10,860 --> 00:59:13,110
S3: quite nice to be sent into a world where you're like,

1294
00:59:13,140 --> 00:59:16,320
S3: I know it's stressful and I know it's crazy, but

1295
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:18,690
S3: I don't know what they do for a job. Exactly.

1296
00:59:19,380 --> 00:59:19,830
S4: I have a.

1297
00:59:19,830 --> 00:59:22,740
S2: Question. Why do you think it isn't? Why was the

1298
00:59:22,740 --> 00:59:24,660
S2: show not popular when it first came out? Why did

1299
00:59:24,660 --> 00:59:26,490
S2: it never have the cut through moment? It came out

1300
00:59:26,490 --> 00:59:29,910
S2: in 2020 when we were all in lockdowns, desperate for content.

1301
00:59:30,030 --> 00:59:32,740
S2: I hadn't watched it. Why is that? Do people not

1302
00:59:32,740 --> 00:59:35,680
S2: want to watch investment bankers when they were losing their jobs?

1303
00:59:35,710 --> 00:59:36,220
S4: It could.

1304
00:59:36,220 --> 00:59:39,400
S1: Be that. I mean, it's funny, like Covid was this

1305
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:41,800
S1: time where we had so much to watch, but there's

1306
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:43,660
S1: a bunch of shows from that year that I think

1307
00:59:43,660 --> 00:59:45,430
S1: are some of the best shows that just kind of

1308
00:59:45,460 --> 00:59:47,860
S1: got lost in the midst of it when people stuck

1309
00:59:47,860 --> 00:59:50,200
S1: to like rewatching The Office or friends and things like,

1310
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,200
S1: I think about things like station 11 and Watchmen, some

1311
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,360
S1: of the literally best TV shows I think of the

1312
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:59,590
S1: past decade. Um, I also think like I enjoyed season one,

1313
00:59:59,590 --> 01:00:02,260
S1: but I wasn't shouting about it from the rooftops. Like,

1314
01:00:02,260 --> 01:00:05,290
S1: I think you're right to point out that there is

1315
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,050
S1: like sometimes a cutesy vibe or sometimes a skinny vibe.

1316
01:00:08,380 --> 01:00:09,910
S1: For me, it was really season.

1317
01:00:09,970 --> 01:00:12,940
S4: Skins is great. Skins. Skins is not underrate skins.

1318
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:15,820
S1: Um. Season two, you know, there was a two year

1319
01:00:15,820 --> 01:00:18,010
S1: break between it because of Covid and stuff. So I

1320
01:00:18,010 --> 01:00:20,170
S1: think it lost a bit of momentum. And by the

1321
01:00:20,170 --> 01:00:22,180
S1: time it came back with season two, which is really,

1322
01:00:22,180 --> 01:00:25,000
S1: really good, people kind of forgotten about it. And now

1323
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,190
S1: I think and I think also let's, let's be honest,

1324
01:00:27,220 --> 01:00:30,400
S1: like we talked about this earlier, HBO has now just

1325
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,840
S1: put it in the Sunday slot. And it may be

1326
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:35,180
S1: that with succession, with a couple of other big shows,

1327
01:00:35,180 --> 01:00:37,160
S1: they just thought, this is good, but it's not our

1328
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:39,740
S1: top tier. This is kind of like the second tier show.

1329
01:00:39,770 --> 01:00:41,240
S1: We're not going to put all of our marketing and

1330
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:44,180
S1: stuff behind it while we've got succession. Now the deck

1331
01:00:44,180 --> 01:00:46,910
S1: is cleared. This is like a show coming out at

1332
01:00:46,910 --> 01:00:48,380
S1: a time when there isn't a lot of stuff. And

1333
01:00:48,380 --> 01:00:50,150
S1: I guess that's your point, Thomas. Is it is it

1334
01:00:50,150 --> 01:00:53,000
S1: the Steven Bradbury of kind of prestige TV? I think

1335
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,400
S1: in a way it is, but it's also pretty good.

1336
01:00:55,430 --> 01:00:57,290
S3: Yeah, that probably won't be a pull quote that binge

1337
01:00:57,290 --> 01:00:57,860
S3: uses to.

1338
01:00:57,890 --> 01:00:58,670
S4: Like on the.

1339
01:00:58,670 --> 01:01:02,270
S3: Landing screen. But even I think the marketing of season three,

1340
01:01:02,300 --> 01:01:04,550
S3: like it's been very strange for me because I haven't

1341
01:01:04,580 --> 01:01:06,470
S3: watched it like as the seasons have dropped. So I've

1342
01:01:06,470 --> 01:01:08,810
S3: basically watched the first two seasons like over the last

1343
01:01:08,810 --> 01:01:12,410
S3: two weeks. So I haven't had that context. But watching

1344
01:01:12,710 --> 01:01:15,830
S3: being aware of season three coming and the marketing from

1345
01:01:15,830 --> 01:01:18,740
S3: HBO reminds me heaps of the marketing from succession. Like

1346
01:01:18,740 --> 01:01:20,540
S3: suddenly they've got these big, like kind of like black

1347
01:01:20,540 --> 01:01:23,360
S3: and white posters of single characters on like, bus stops

1348
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:27,050
S3: and stuff. Like they've obviously really hedging their bets on it.

1349
01:01:27,050 --> 01:01:29,270
S3: So yeah, I mean, I'll be and I do feel

1350
01:01:29,270 --> 01:01:31,360
S3: like I've heard a lot of people talking about season three,

1351
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:34,510
S3: so there is like a vacuum there. And I guess this,

1352
01:01:34,510 --> 01:01:36,310
S3: this will hopefully fill it.

1353
01:01:36,430 --> 01:01:39,730
S1: Well, yeah, I mean, let's let's talk about, um, like awards, right?

1354
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,130
S1: It hasn't been nominated for anything. Like it's not an

1355
01:01:42,130 --> 01:01:44,950
S1: Emmy contender, I think probably drowned out by succession. I

1356
01:01:44,950 --> 01:01:47,770
S1: think the the only award it's won is a British

1357
01:01:47,770 --> 01:01:54,640
S1: Royal Television Society craft and Design award for casting. Um, but,

1358
01:01:54,670 --> 01:01:57,070
S1: you know, Rotten Tomatoes is an imperfect thing in so

1359
01:01:57,070 --> 01:01:58,960
S1: many ways. But as an example, I think of the

1360
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:05,080
S1: trajectory of the show critically. Season 176%. Season 296%. Third

1361
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,260
S1: season so far 100%. So it's a show that it

1362
01:02:08,260 --> 01:02:09,790
S1: took a little while, I think, to figure it out.

1363
01:02:09,790 --> 01:02:11,500
S1: But luckily you've got us and we're telling you about

1364
01:02:11,500 --> 01:02:13,570
S1: it now, so you've got it sorted.

1365
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:15,070
S3: It makes a lot of sense to me that Emily

1366
01:02:15,070 --> 01:02:17,169
S3: in Paris also came out during the pandemic, and everyone

1367
01:02:17,170 --> 01:02:20,440
S3: was like, this is fucking art. And now we've got

1368
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,020
S3: Emily in Paris, which drops, I think, tomorrow or today

1369
01:02:23,020 --> 01:02:25,990
S3: on Netflix season four. Um, but like, that was I guess,

1370
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:29,100
S3: the show people needed at that time and industry maybe wasn't. Yeah.

1371
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:30,960
S1: It's a good it's a good point. Like what were

1372
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,380
S1: we looking for at that time. Most people wanted like

1373
01:02:34,410 --> 01:02:37,590
S1: sort of comfortable, fun, dumb stuff. I was the only

1374
01:02:37,590 --> 01:02:40,709
S1: weirdo that wanted to watch station 11, a show set

1375
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:44,790
S1: immediately after a global pandemic that destroyed society. I watched

1376
01:02:44,790 --> 01:02:45,900
S1: contagion 100 times.

1377
01:02:46,110 --> 01:02:48,240
S3: Yeah, I watched I think a lot of people watched contagion. Yeah, contagion.

1378
01:02:48,390 --> 01:02:49,110
S4: Let's see what I think.

1379
01:02:49,110 --> 01:02:50,580
S2: Most people did that for about a week.

1380
01:02:50,610 --> 01:02:51,930
S4: And then they were like, no more. It's too.

1381
01:02:51,930 --> 01:02:54,870
S1: Much. Um, yeah. The show has a lot of, like, anti-heroes.

1382
01:02:54,900 --> 01:02:57,330
S1: Like most of the people in the show are quite conflicted,

1383
01:02:57,330 --> 01:03:00,390
S1: quite terrible, betray each other. And and what you were

1384
01:03:00,390 --> 01:03:04,170
S1: saying before, Thomas, about how it represents the the finance world.

1385
01:03:04,170 --> 01:03:06,510
S1: I totally agree. Like, I don't understand how most of

1386
01:03:06,510 --> 01:03:08,820
S1: this stuff operates. I think the show is really smart

1387
01:03:08,820 --> 01:03:11,700
S1: at not overexplaining like there's not a lot of exposition

1388
01:03:11,700 --> 01:03:14,070
S1: that would just dumb it down and make us feel

1389
01:03:14,070 --> 01:03:17,160
S1: a bit stupid anyway, but at the same time you

1390
01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:19,680
S1: understand why it matters. Like you get the stakes and

1391
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:21,810
S1: when they're throwing numbers out there, you're like, oh shit,

1392
01:03:21,810 --> 01:03:24,870
S1: this person needs to like, win this thing. Otherwise X, Y,

1393
01:03:24,870 --> 01:03:26,400
S1: and Z will happen. It reminds me a lot of

1394
01:03:26,430 --> 01:03:28,800
S1: Margin Call, like one of my favorite films, where they

1395
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,710
S1: just don't really tell you what's going on, but you understand.

1396
01:03:31,710 --> 01:03:32,640
S4: What it's like.

1397
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:34,380
S2: Succession as well, right? Like, how much do you know

1398
01:03:34,380 --> 01:03:38,700
S2: about mergers and why waste our shit mattered? You don't.

1399
01:03:38,700 --> 01:03:41,250
S2: But Kendall seems mad about it so totally.

1400
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:43,890
S1: And I still think the 100 was a good idea.

1401
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:45,660
S3: Yes. Me too. And then I was. I was like,

1402
01:03:45,660 --> 01:03:48,870
S3: with a friend on the weekend who is in this space.

1403
01:03:48,870 --> 01:03:50,940
S3: He works for a hedge fund and, you know, is

1404
01:03:50,940 --> 01:03:52,740
S3: in private equity. And I was like, man, you have

1405
01:03:52,740 --> 01:03:55,110
S3: to watch industry. And he was like, oh, I don't know.

1406
01:03:55,140 --> 01:03:56,880
S3: Like he's like, would you watch a show like that?

1407
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:59,040
S3: But about like journalism and media.

1408
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:00,660
S4: Yeah. And it's the bold type.

1409
01:04:00,930 --> 01:04:03,120
S1: Well, Meg and I watched a one of our favorite

1410
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:06,600
S1: scenes from The Newsroom yesterday after newsroom.

1411
01:04:06,780 --> 01:04:08,460
S3: That was that was a weird show where everyone for

1412
01:04:08,670 --> 01:04:10,320
S3: like half an hour was like, this is really good. Ah.

1413
01:04:10,350 --> 01:04:12,030
S1: It's not. No, no, it was terrible show. It was

1414
01:04:12,030 --> 01:04:13,680
S1: a terrible show. Um, yeah. I think that's the problem.

1415
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:16,350
S1: When you're so close to something, you don't really want

1416
01:04:16,380 --> 01:04:18,120
S1: to watch it because it's just annoying to point out,

1417
01:04:18,150 --> 01:04:29,440
S1: like how wrong it is about this stuff. All right,

1418
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,980
S1: before we finish up today, we have our regular Impress

1419
01:04:32,980 --> 01:04:36,459
S1: Your Friends segment where we share something we watched, read,

1420
01:04:36,460 --> 01:04:40,090
S1: listen to, or otherwise consumed in the world of culture. Meg,

1421
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:42,940
S1: you're a wonderful guest this week. You get to go first.

1422
01:04:42,940 --> 01:04:44,380
S1: What have you got for us?

1423
01:04:44,410 --> 01:04:48,430
S2: Uh, mine is somewhat pandemic related, I suppose. So there's

1424
01:04:48,430 --> 01:04:52,210
S2: a new four part docu series coming out called Chimp Crazy.

1425
01:04:52,210 --> 01:04:56,500
S2: It's an HBO show which is co-directed by Eric Goode,

1426
01:04:56,530 --> 01:05:01,120
S2: who was one of the directors of Tiger King. It's

1427
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:03,610
S2: following on in a similar kind of trajectory. It looks

1428
01:05:03,610 --> 01:05:07,120
S2: at the people who own chimpanzees, who keep them as

1429
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,460
S2: pets in their home. And so it's got very much

1430
01:05:09,460 --> 01:05:12,250
S2: those eccentric characters that we saw in Tiger King. There's

1431
01:05:12,250 --> 01:05:15,580
S2: this woman, Tonya Haddix, who's the main character who looks

1432
01:05:15,580 --> 01:05:18,940
S2: like a Dolly Parton character, like she actively styles herself

1433
01:05:18,940 --> 01:05:21,190
S2: like Dolly Parton. Her house is all pastel pink. She's

1434
01:05:21,190 --> 01:05:23,840
S2: got the big blonde hair, and she keeps chimps as

1435
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:27,920
S2: essentially her children. So it's got this light, frothy vibe,

1436
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:30,590
S2: which is kind of silly and zany, but it's also

1437
01:05:30,590 --> 01:05:32,810
S2: in a way that's slightly different to Tiger King. I

1438
01:05:32,810 --> 01:05:37,070
S2: think it takes the animal welfare issues a bit more seriously,

1439
01:05:37,070 --> 01:05:40,610
S2: and there's some scenes in there which are really pretty harrowing,

1440
01:05:40,610 --> 01:05:42,710
S2: and it follows a lot of work that Peta have

1441
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:44,840
S2: done in this space. You know, it looks at women

1442
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:47,540
S2: who've kept chimps as their little babies and literally breastfed

1443
01:05:47,570 --> 01:05:50,030
S2: them at times. But it also, you know, tells the

1444
01:05:50,030 --> 01:05:54,500
S2: story of that chimp who literally bit a woman's face off. Um,

1445
01:05:54,500 --> 01:05:56,900
S2: and you know how that could be avoided? What needs

1446
01:05:56,900 --> 01:06:00,050
S2: to be done, uh, to avoid those situations? It also

1447
01:06:00,050 --> 01:06:03,260
S2: features Alan Cumming. Wow. Um, so one of the chimps

1448
01:06:03,260 --> 01:06:08,210
S2: that Tonya owns is a very famous chimp called Tonka.

1449
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:10,370
S2: He had a long career in the 90s. He was

1450
01:06:10,370 --> 01:06:11,900
S2: like the George of the jungle chimp.

1451
01:06:12,050 --> 01:06:13,370
S1: Like he was in George of the jungle.

1452
01:06:13,550 --> 01:06:14,180
S4: Oh, wow. He's a.

1453
01:06:14,180 --> 01:06:16,670
S2: Famous chimp. Wow. And he was in a film with

1454
01:06:16,670 --> 01:06:20,210
S2: Alan Cumming in the 90s. And since then, Alan's become

1455
01:06:20,210 --> 01:06:22,840
S2: like a Peta spokesperson. He's kind of realized, you know,

1456
01:06:22,900 --> 01:06:25,630
S2: we shouldn't have chimps in these movies. It's not fair

1457
01:06:25,630 --> 01:06:30,160
S2: to them. Detrimental for all sorts of reasons. Um, but

1458
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:34,510
S2: the the docu series is really it's super entertaining for

1459
01:06:34,510 --> 01:06:39,220
S2: all those reasons. But it's also a really compelling object

1460
01:06:39,220 --> 01:06:43,390
S2: to discuss kind of ethics and documentary filmmaking. So, uh,

1461
01:06:43,390 --> 01:06:45,700
S2: Eric Goode really had to talk his way back into

1462
01:06:45,700 --> 01:06:48,880
S2: the animal community after Tiger King. It was received really poorly,

1463
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:49,780
S2: for obvious reasons.

1464
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:50,500
S4: That makes sense.

1465
01:06:50,500 --> 01:06:53,919
S2: To the point that he's actually made this, this show

1466
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:59,230
S2: with a proxy director. So the subjects in the series

1467
01:06:59,230 --> 01:07:00,550
S2: didn't know that he was the director.

1468
01:07:00,550 --> 01:07:01,300
S4: Didn't know this was being.

1469
01:07:01,300 --> 01:07:01,990
S1: Done by the Tiger.

1470
01:07:01,990 --> 01:07:02,710
S4: King. Yeah.

1471
01:07:02,890 --> 01:07:06,670
S2: So and it actively interrogates that the scenes with him

1472
01:07:06,700 --> 01:07:09,280
S2: kind of discussing how he feels about it and also

1473
01:07:09,310 --> 01:07:11,860
S2: the twists and turns that the series takes, which are

1474
01:07:11,860 --> 01:07:16,870
S2: quite entertaining, are also just really, really interesting to think about.

1475
01:07:16,900 --> 01:07:19,180
S2: You know what? What do you owe the subjects of

1476
01:07:19,180 --> 01:07:21,400
S2: a documentary? What do you owe the audience? How should

1477
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:25,240
S2: a director conduct themselves? It's only four episodes and it's

1478
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:28,120
S2: dropping weekly on binge, so I think it'll be a real, like,

1479
01:07:28,150 --> 01:07:30,910
S2: talky show. And it starts on this Monday.

1480
01:07:30,940 --> 01:07:32,950
S1: Yeah, I've been hearing you get excited about this for

1481
01:07:32,950 --> 01:07:35,230
S1: the last couple of weeks, and I think it's going

1482
01:07:35,260 --> 01:07:36,490
S1: to be a big one. I think people will be

1483
01:07:36,490 --> 01:07:37,690
S1: chatting about this.

1484
01:07:37,900 --> 01:07:40,240
S2: Yeah, I watched all four episodes back to back and

1485
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:41,530
S2: just lost my mind in the office.

1486
01:07:41,530 --> 01:07:43,720
S1: So yeah, yeah, no, I'm excited to watch this and

1487
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:45,520
S1: I think it could be something that we talk about more.

1488
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,850
S1: Thank you. My great recommendation is, um. Thomas, what do

1489
01:07:48,850 --> 01:07:49,300
S1: you got?

1490
01:07:49,330 --> 01:07:53,050
S3: Yes. Well, in Mel's absence, I thought someone had to

1491
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:56,380
S3: recommend a book. And so I will be taking that

1492
01:07:56,380 --> 01:07:57,370
S3: mantle today.

1493
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,230
S4: Colleen Hoover's sequel.

1494
01:07:59,260 --> 01:08:00,790
S1: To it ends with us. It starts with us.

1495
01:08:00,820 --> 01:08:03,910
S3: Yes, correct. Uh, speak on book talk. No. So this

1496
01:08:03,910 --> 01:08:07,930
S3: is Long Island Compromise by Taffy Brodesser-akner. It came out

1497
01:08:07,930 --> 01:08:10,900
S3: a month ago. Um, and just kind of gotten through it.

1498
01:08:10,930 --> 01:08:13,030
S3: It is. I'm not sure if you guys have read

1499
01:08:13,060 --> 01:08:14,170
S3: her first novel, Fleishman.

1500
01:08:14,230 --> 01:08:14,680
S4: Is in Trouble.

1501
01:08:14,710 --> 01:08:16,660
S1: Great novel, great TV adaptation.

1502
01:08:16,660 --> 01:08:19,830
S3: Exactly. And this feels like a I mean, it's not

1503
01:08:19,830 --> 01:08:22,559
S3: a sequel, but it feels like a stylistic sequel. It

1504
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,050
S3: has much of the same kind of vibe, I guess,

1505
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:29,280
S3: as Fleishman. Basically, it's set in on Long Island. Unsurprising

1506
01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:33,150
S3: in the 1980s. Carl Fletcher, he's a prominent local businessman,

1507
01:08:33,150 --> 01:08:34,890
S3: and basically he's coming home from work one day and

1508
01:08:34,890 --> 01:08:39,270
S3: he's ambushed on his driveway and kidnapped and tortured and

1509
01:08:39,270 --> 01:08:42,420
S3: then eventually, weirdly returned to his family. But basically, the

1510
01:08:42,450 --> 01:08:45,390
S3: novel then kind of splits into it's told by his

1511
01:08:45,390 --> 01:08:49,290
S3: three children in three different parts. And I guess, weirdly,

1512
01:08:49,290 --> 01:08:51,210
S3: as is a strange theme of today's podcast, it very

1513
01:08:51,210 --> 01:08:56,160
S3: much looks at generational trauma, how the kidnapping of their

1514
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:58,500
S3: father affected these kids and also affected their father and

1515
01:08:58,500 --> 01:09:00,689
S3: the family unit. But at the same time, I guess

1516
01:09:00,689 --> 01:09:04,320
S3: it plays into similar space to Fleishman, and it's a

1517
01:09:04,350 --> 01:09:07,049
S3: satirizing or a skewering of the rich. You know, these

1518
01:09:07,050 --> 01:09:10,590
S3: people have got endless resources, and they kind of live

1519
01:09:10,590 --> 01:09:14,130
S3: in a bubble. And how that community and that family

1520
01:09:14,130 --> 01:09:17,070
S3: almost tries to downplay the trauma of what happened to Carl.

1521
01:09:17,070 --> 01:09:19,990
S3: So it's both a commentary on suburbia and, you know,

1522
01:09:20,020 --> 01:09:22,269
S3: the Uber wealthy, as well as a look at how

1523
01:09:22,300 --> 01:09:25,120
S3: trauma kind of trickles down. It's got the similar thing

1524
01:09:25,150 --> 01:09:27,820
S3: of like, you know, Fleischman featured, I guess a big twist,

1525
01:09:27,820 --> 01:09:29,920
S3: almost like or that twist energy. There's a lot of

1526
01:09:29,950 --> 01:09:32,140
S3: that in the book. I really am a big fan

1527
01:09:32,140 --> 01:09:34,570
S3: of Jaffe's writing. She writes for The New Yorker a lot.

1528
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:36,099
S3: So if you've ever read any of her stuff or

1529
01:09:36,130 --> 01:09:38,379
S3: have read Fleischman or even watched the TV show, I

1530
01:09:38,380 --> 01:09:41,080
S3: think you will love Long Island compromise. Um, yeah, that's

1531
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:42,430
S3: my recommendation for this week.

1532
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:44,320
S1: Wow, you guys are hitting it out of the park.

1533
01:09:44,350 --> 01:09:46,630
S1: That's great stuff. Thanks, man. And thanks for keeping the

1534
01:09:46,630 --> 01:09:48,790
S1: book stuff going.

1535
01:09:48,820 --> 01:09:50,530
S3: I'm just trying. It's basically a play for me to

1536
01:09:50,530 --> 01:09:52,269
S3: get the metal heads on side while she's up.

1537
01:09:52,810 --> 01:09:53,170
S4: Hand, foot.

1538
01:09:53,170 --> 01:09:53,920
S3: And mouth.

1539
01:09:54,070 --> 01:09:54,670
S4: That's really.

1540
01:09:54,670 --> 01:09:57,520
S1: Funny. No, the metal heads transferred very neatly to Meg,

1541
01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:59,740
S1: and I think whatever. Thomas and Oz heads exist. Also

1542
01:09:59,740 --> 01:10:04,180
S1: transferred to Meg today. Yeah. Um, my recommendation is an

1543
01:10:04,180 --> 01:10:08,650
S1: artist called, uh, Beer Barbie. Uh, she's 24 year old

1544
01:10:08,650 --> 01:10:12,400
S1: Filipino British singer. Uh, been a fan for a while.

1545
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:15,370
S1: She's got a new album. Was released last week. It's

1546
01:10:15,370 --> 01:10:19,580
S1: called This Is How Tomorrow Moves. Beabadoobee is like very

1547
01:10:19,580 --> 01:10:24,890
S1: firmly part of this. Like Gen Z revival of 90s stuff.

1548
01:10:24,890 --> 01:10:27,469
S1: She wears her influences on her sleeve. She's talked a

1549
01:10:27,470 --> 01:10:30,560
S1: lot about loving Mazzy Star, pavement. I think there's a

1550
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:33,860
S1: song she's got named after Stephen Malkmus, The Cardigans. It's

1551
01:10:33,860 --> 01:10:37,970
S1: a real fun throwback to that sort of sound. Uh,

1552
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:40,340
S1: a bit of Bic Runga, you know, sway energy on

1553
01:10:40,340 --> 01:10:42,559
S1: this new album as well. Uh, her last album had

1554
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:46,370
S1: a lot of tracks that made me really nostalgic for

1555
01:10:46,370 --> 01:10:49,310
S1: the era where, like, Hilary Duff was releasing music, but

1556
01:10:49,310 --> 01:10:53,450
S1: she's also firmly part of the contemporary pop wave as well.

1557
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:57,290
S1: You know, she's toured with Taylor Swift. She understands what

1558
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:00,920
S1: people want from contemporary young women pop stars as well.

1559
01:11:00,950 --> 01:11:03,290
S1: It's a really interesting marriage of those two things. She's

1560
01:11:03,290 --> 01:11:06,740
S1: really great person to like, read articles and interviews with.

1561
01:11:06,770 --> 01:11:09,560
S1: She's talked a lot about being an Asian woman growing

1562
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:11,750
S1: up in the West and loving pop music, but not

1563
01:11:11,750 --> 01:11:14,510
S1: seeing herself represented and then seeing, you know, Karen O

1564
01:11:14,540 --> 01:11:16,270
S1: on stage and being like, wow, I could do stuff

1565
01:11:16,270 --> 01:11:19,360
S1: like that as well. Yeah, she's only 24. She's really,

1566
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:21,730
S1: really good. This album is really great. It's a cool

1567
01:11:21,729 --> 01:11:23,740
S1: entry point into her kind of music if you want

1568
01:11:23,770 --> 01:11:25,570
S1: to give it a spin. So yeah.

1569
01:11:25,570 --> 01:11:26,019
S4: That's my rock.

1570
01:11:26,140 --> 01:11:28,390
S2: That's a wild combination of influences. I'm keen to check

1571
01:11:28,390 --> 01:11:28,599
S2: it out.

1572
01:11:28,630 --> 01:11:31,689
S1: It's it's wacky, it's confusing the pavement thing, but also

1573
01:11:31,689 --> 01:11:34,000
S1: like it works. It works in terms of how a

1574
01:11:34,030 --> 01:11:35,769
S1: lot of the tracks bring these things together. And then

1575
01:11:35,770 --> 01:11:38,500
S1: sometimes it's like, that's a mazzy star track. That's a

1576
01:11:38,620 --> 01:11:38,980
S1: I'm just gonna.

1577
01:11:38,979 --> 01:11:41,139
S3: Have fade into you playing in my head all day.

1578
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:43,810
S1: Yeah, yeah. Maybe we'll fade out with that one.

1579
01:11:43,870 --> 01:11:45,130
S3: Oh, ladies and gentlemen.

1580
01:11:46,060 --> 01:11:47,830
S1: Tom, it's great to chat. Meg, thank you so much

1581
01:11:47,830 --> 01:11:48,429
S1: for joining us.

1582
01:11:48,430 --> 01:11:50,229
S4: Thanks for having me. Thanks, guys.

1583
01:11:53,470 --> 01:11:56,650
S1: This episode of The Drop was produced by Kai Wong.

1584
01:11:56,650 --> 01:11:59,170
S1: If you enjoyed listening to today's episode of The Drop,

1585
01:11:59,170 --> 01:12:01,809
S1: make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast app.

1586
01:12:01,810 --> 01:12:04,689
S1: Leave us a review or better yet, share the episode

1587
01:12:04,689 --> 01:12:06,910
S1: with a friend. I'm Osman Farooqui.

1588
01:12:06,970 --> 01:12:07,990
UU: See you next week!