1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,240 S1: The coalition is in disarray after the resignation of three 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:13,760 S1: nationals frontbenchers on Wednesday. The senators, including Bridget McKenzie, breached 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,000 S1: shadow cabinet solidarity when they voted against Labor's hate crime laws. 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:22,119 S1: The spotlight is back on Opposition Leader Susan Lee's authority, 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,960 S1: as the coalition is again split on a key policy issue. 6 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:31,240 S1: And having already briefly broken up earlier this term that 7 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,800 S1: no doubt much to the relief of Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, 8 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,360 S1: who has faced backlash for rushing the bills through parliament 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:43,520 S1: without enough time for proper scrutiny. I'm Julia Carl Kasell, 10 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,720 S1: filling in for Samantha Salinger. Morris. And you're listening to 11 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:51,520 S1: Morning Edition from The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald. Today, 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,640 S1: federal political correspondent Natassia Chrysanthos on the rocky first few 13 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:03,880 S1: parliamentary days of the year. Welcome back to the pod, Taz. 14 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,560 S2: Thank you for having me. 15 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,319 S1: So it's been a turbulent few days in Parliament, to 16 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,360 S1: say the very least. And as we record, remains a 17 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,960 S1: fast moving situation. Let's start with the two bills that 18 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,880 S1: passed the Senate Tuesday night, one on hate speech and 19 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,959 S1: the other on gun laws in response to the Bondi massacre. 20 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,560 S1: What changes to the law can we expect? 21 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,640 S2: So as you say, there are two components. The first one, 22 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,480 S2: which is kind of become about hate crimes, gets to 23 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:38,080 S2: the issue of cracking down on radical extremism, basically. So 24 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,440 S2: one core part of that bill is new powers for 25 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,559 S2: the government to designate certain groups as hate groups and 26 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,720 S2: then outlaw their activity. And this is designed to bring 27 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,880 S2: the threshold lower than a terrorist designation, because that has 28 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,440 S2: quite a high threshold. So this new hate group designation 29 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,600 S2: is designed to capture neo-Nazi groups as well as radical 30 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,760 S2: Islamist groups and shut them down. In addition, this has 31 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,120 S2: new powers for a minister to cancel or refuse a 32 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,560 S2: visa to someone who's been spreading hateful or extremist views. 33 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,520 S2: There are also stronger penalties for people who preach hatred 34 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,600 S2: to children, for example. And then the second component is 35 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,480 S2: the gun laws. And so what this does is beef 36 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,359 S2: up background checks before people get gun licenses. It restricts 37 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,080 S2: gun ownership to Australian citizens. It limits the kind of 38 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,080 S2: guns that can be imported. And it also sets up 39 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,919 S2: a national gun buyback scheme. But this will really rely 40 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:38,840 S2: on the states, because it's the states who set a 41 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,079 S2: lot of laws around, for example, how many guns you 42 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:45,720 S2: can own. So the efficacy of the gun laws in 43 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,760 S2: terms of gun ownership will happen in tandem with the states, 44 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,400 S2: and that will be a more piecemeal process. 45 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,760 S1: One to watch. And this what's been called an omnibus legislation. 46 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,160 S1: It looked quite different a few days ago before it 47 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,880 S1: was split into two and its most contentious element was dropped. 48 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,800 S1: Can you tell me more about that process? 49 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,240 S2: This all came in the context, I guess, of the 50 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,520 S2: post bondage environment, um, where Opposition Leader Susan Lee was 51 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,560 S2: calling for Parliament to be recalled and pass a bunch 52 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,840 S2: of laws on issues that the opposition had outlined. Labor 53 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,960 S2: went away and department officials over the break and drafted 54 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,040 S2: these laws very quickly. And so what we ended up 55 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,800 S2: with then was one big bill that labor put forward 56 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,720 S2: that was going to capture the gun laws and the 57 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,480 S2: hate laws in the one package. And the idea of 58 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,640 S2: that was to kind of force bipartisanship, I suppose, and 59 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:38,920 S2: kind of call on the Parliament to pass them all 60 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,520 S2: together in an uncomplicated way. Of course, that did not happen. 61 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,440 S3: It is not guns that are the problem, but it 62 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,280 S3: is radical Islam that is a problem. 63 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,960 S4: What happened in Bondi was is an Islamic extremist attack 64 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,160 S4: in this country. That's what happened. 65 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,280 S3: We are only going to rid the scourge of anti-Semitism 66 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,240 S3: in this country if we all rise above our parties 67 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:01,920 S3: and do it together. 68 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,320 S2: We had the coalition come out. Unhappy about the gun laws. 69 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,960 S2: And then a range of issues arose with the hate laws. 70 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,640 S2: The key issue that you just pointed out, Julia, with 71 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,560 S2: the hate laws, was around an anti vilification offense. So 72 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,240 S2: this would have made it illegal basically at a federal level. 73 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,120 S2: A lot of these laws already existed as state and 74 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,800 S2: territory level, but would have written into the criminal code 75 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,600 S2: that it was unlawful to kind of, you know, incite 76 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,760 S2: and promote hatred against people on the basis of race. Now, crucially, 77 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,880 S2: race according to case law, it captures Jewish people, but 78 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,640 S2: it doesn't capture Muslims, for example, because Jewish people are 79 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,880 S2: deemed to be both a religious group and an ethnic group, 80 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,240 S2: whereas Muslims, for example, are just a faith group. So 81 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,479 S2: we quickly then had a widening of that debate for 82 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:53,719 S2: people who wanted the laws extended to all religions. There's 83 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,280 S2: also been a protracted debate over this issue for years 84 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,560 S2: and years over whether it should be extended to people 85 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,040 S2: on the basis of gender identity and sexuality and disability. 86 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,960 S2: So basically it opened a can of worms around how 87 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,279 S2: we regulate and criminalize speech in Australia that tends to 88 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,720 S2: rear its head every few years. And with that kind 89 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,720 S2: of came all of the usual discontent. So we had 90 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,880 S2: the Greens upset about that legislation because they wanted it 91 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:20,159 S2: to go further. 92 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,279 S5: Far from narrowing these laws, the amendments that labor have 93 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,679 S5: agreed to in this dirty deal with the coalition expand 94 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:32,159 S5: the reach of an already unreasonable crackdown on free speech. 95 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:37,200 S5: There are real questions about the constitutionality of this expansion. 96 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,000 S2: We had the coalition then upset about it because there 97 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,760 S2: were other issues with restricting free speech, and basically it 98 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,480 S2: all got too complicated, and the government ended up dropping 99 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,680 S2: that quite core component of the law, which actually got 100 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,160 S2: to hate speech articulated by regular people. And so that 101 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,479 S2: was pulled by the government at the kind of last minute. 102 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,040 S2: and we ended up voting on a watered down version 103 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:01,720 S2: of that bill. 104 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,480 S1: But despite that being pulled, the nationals, Greens and independent 105 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,599 S1: senators chose not to vote for the hate speech bill 106 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,400 S1: on Tuesday night in the Senate. We know that the 107 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,320 S1: nationals shadow ministers did this against the coalition's previously agreed 108 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,719 S1: position on the legislation. So what were some of the 109 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:22,520 S1: non-negotiables for them? 110 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,839 S2: Yeah. So then what was left of this hate crimes 111 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,920 S2: bill without that vilification clause? Was this stuff around hate 112 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,920 S2: groups and stricter rules on visas and all of that. 113 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,400 S2: So you then had the Greens rejecting that bill because 114 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,160 S2: they argued that it would unfairly scapegoat migrants. And they 115 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,960 S2: were also worried that, for example, pro-Palestinian groups could be 116 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,960 S2: designated hate groups under the terms of the legislation. So 117 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,320 S2: they opted out the liberals or the coalition. There were 118 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,720 S2: still free speech concerns within the coalition about how hate 119 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,200 S2: groups were designated. So you had nationals Senator Matt Canavan, 120 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,360 S2: for example, retain up to the last minute issues with 121 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,760 S2: the kind of restrictions on free speech inherent to that 122 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,599 S2: hate group law. Sussan Ley, as we have discussed, has 123 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,400 S2: spent the entire summer calling for the government to crack 124 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:14,280 S2: down on hate preachers and Islamic terrorism and all of 125 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,320 S2: that kind of stuff. So it would have been very 126 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,480 S2: untenable for Lee to reject the hate crimes law in 127 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,600 S2: its entirety, as well as the gun reform law, and 128 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,760 S2: it would have been untenable for her as well, I think, 129 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,440 S2: in the community, if she didn't look like she was 130 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,200 S2: being constructive. So she came in with an approach was, 131 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,400 S2: we need to get these laws over the line in 132 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,440 S2: some form. She proposed a raft of changes to the government. 133 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,760 S2: The government agreed on them and there are few checks 134 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,200 S2: and balances. For example, these laws will have to be 135 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,800 S2: reviewed in two years to make sure that they're working effectively, 136 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,000 S2: and that the opposition needs to be consulted before a 137 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,440 S2: group is designated a hate group. And she has spent 138 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,800 S2: a lot of this week kind of begging and insisting 139 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,560 S2: behind closed doors for the nationals to get on board. 140 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,640 S2: And there have been very tense conversations between her and 141 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,680 S2: nationals leaders. But at the end of the day, what 142 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,880 S2: we saw on Tuesday was the nationals in the House. 143 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,520 S2: When it came time to vote for this bill, the 144 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,520 S2: Liberal MPs voted for it. And that includes people like 145 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,200 S2: Andrew Hastie, who have also got quite prudent free speech concerns. 146 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,960 S2: But the nationals abstained for that vote and they said, well, 147 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,640 S2: we're going to put forward amendments in the Senate. And 148 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,920 S2: if those amendments are rejected, then we're going to vote 149 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,440 S2: against the bill. And then that's what happened at 11:00 150 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,800 S2: pm on Tuesday night. So you had these quite um, 151 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,520 S2: they were they were great images from our photographer here. 152 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,200 S2: Alex Ellinghausen Of the four national senators sitting on the 153 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:36,920 S2: other side of the chamber, and they ended up voting 154 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,360 S2: with the Greens, which Susan Lee pointed out was quite 155 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,200 S2: a bizarre position for the nationals to find themselves in. Um, 156 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,679 S2: and they're kind of they're smiling up at Alex Ellinghausen 157 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,520 S2: as they go their own way on this one. 158 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,319 S1: And then we saw three of them. The nationals shadow 159 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:55,360 S1: ministers resigned from the cabinet on Wednesday. Was this inevitable 160 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,000 S1: following their, I guess you could say, disloyalty. Like, just 161 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,800 S1: how bad is it that the ministers chose to go 162 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,240 S1: against the wishes of their leader and their coalition colleagues? 163 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,200 S2: This goes to a dynamic in the Parliament that we 164 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,040 S2: see again and again. You know, crossing the floor has consequences. 165 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,680 S2: But most importantly, both cabinet and shadow cabinet, which are 166 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,200 S2: the group of people who are designated with portfolio responsibilities 167 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,640 S2: and the benefits that come with that as well, are 168 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,360 S2: expected to toe the party line. And it is untenable 169 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,600 S2: for a political party to operate if its frontbench, who 170 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,760 S2: are the leadership of the party, don't kind of align 171 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,280 S2: in their public statements with the rest of their colleagues. 172 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,199 S2: And so there are only four nationals left in the 173 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,320 S2: Senate at this point. Three of them have shadow ministerial 174 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:52,559 S2: portfolios and responsibilities, and those three voted against the position 175 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,160 S2: that had been outlined by the leader. And so we 176 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,970 S2: saw a similar thing happen. Very different circumstances, but very 177 00:10:00,970 --> 00:10:04,770 S2: much like last year when Jacinta Price said that she 178 00:10:04,770 --> 00:10:07,490 S2: didn't have the confidence of Susan Lee, similar to when 179 00:10:07,530 --> 00:10:10,370 S2: Andrew Hastie, who was then a frontbencher as well, said 180 00:10:10,410 --> 00:10:12,810 S2: I want to speak my mind and he resigned from 181 00:10:12,809 --> 00:10:16,730 S2: the opposition frontbench. These three senators are now in a 182 00:10:16,730 --> 00:10:19,890 S2: position where they have defied the party position and saw 183 00:10:20,290 --> 00:10:23,090 S2: their leadership role is in, in many ways, untenable. So 184 00:10:23,130 --> 00:10:27,530 S2: it's very difficult for Susan Lee to continue kind of 185 00:10:27,570 --> 00:10:31,969 S2: projecting authority in the party room if her own frontbench 186 00:10:32,970 --> 00:10:37,209 S2: kind of acts to defy what she has set out 187 00:10:37,210 --> 00:10:38,449 S2: as the party position. 188 00:10:39,290 --> 00:10:41,930 S1: And what have we heard from Opposition Leader Susan Lee 189 00:10:41,970 --> 00:10:44,810 S1: about these developments? We know that members are working to 190 00:10:44,850 --> 00:10:48,890 S1: minimise as much damage as possible, avoid a formal split 191 00:10:48,890 --> 00:10:52,210 S1: of the coalition. But is that what you think will happen? 192 00:10:52,370 --> 00:10:55,570 S2: I think what we're hearing, again, like you say, to 193 00:10:55,650 --> 00:10:58,290 S2: try and mitigate the fallout. Here is a lot of 194 00:10:58,330 --> 00:11:00,890 S2: putting the blame back on labor, and this is where 195 00:11:00,890 --> 00:11:03,929 S2: you could say, you know, the situations with Price and 196 00:11:03,929 --> 00:11:06,370 S2: Hastie versus these guys are different. Price and Hastie are 197 00:11:06,410 --> 00:11:07,970 S2: kind of that evolved in their own like, you know, 198 00:11:07,970 --> 00:11:10,970 S2: it was very much self led. The argument now to 199 00:11:11,010 --> 00:11:13,809 S2: kind of salvage this situation is, well, everyone was forced 200 00:11:13,809 --> 00:11:15,850 S2: into a position they didn't want to be because labor 201 00:11:15,850 --> 00:11:19,010 S2: rushed these laws and forced them to vote very quickly 202 00:11:19,010 --> 00:11:23,050 S2: and kind of didn't extend the negotiation period. So we're 203 00:11:23,050 --> 00:11:26,730 S2: hearing at this point, Nationals and Liberals MPs kind of 204 00:11:26,770 --> 00:11:30,090 S2: like play down the consequences, I suppose, for the coalition 205 00:11:30,090 --> 00:11:33,770 S2: and for Lee's leadership by shifting the onus or shifting 206 00:11:33,770 --> 00:11:36,210 S2: the blame back to the government for this situation. 207 00:11:42,210 --> 00:11:43,130 S1: After the break. 208 00:11:44,010 --> 00:11:46,569 S2: I think what is clear after, you know, tragedies and 209 00:11:46,570 --> 00:11:49,290 S2: challenges that are faced by a nation, including Bondi, is 210 00:11:49,290 --> 00:11:53,690 S2: that people do look to leaders. They expect kind of 211 00:11:53,730 --> 00:11:58,050 S2: a moral authority. They expect Decisiveness. They expect people to 212 00:11:58,090 --> 00:11:59,530 S2: rise above politics. 213 00:12:07,970 --> 00:12:10,689 S1: And that was one of the major criticisms on Albanese, 214 00:12:10,730 --> 00:12:13,530 S1: how rushed the legislation was, and how little time all 215 00:12:13,530 --> 00:12:16,970 S1: these MPs and senators had to go through the legislation. 216 00:12:17,450 --> 00:12:20,890 S1: How does this all look for Albanese? Because we know 217 00:12:20,890 --> 00:12:24,050 S1: that Albanese has had to capitulate on these bills early, 218 00:12:24,370 --> 00:12:26,490 S1: and that that was off the back of weeks of 219 00:12:26,490 --> 00:12:30,450 S1: criticism about his response to the Bondi massacre. Now the 220 00:12:30,450 --> 00:12:34,170 S1: coalition is imploding. Maybe it could be a welcome distraction. 221 00:12:34,170 --> 00:12:38,050 S2: I'm sure Albanese will be very pleased by this distraction. 222 00:12:38,090 --> 00:12:40,450 S2: You know, the last four weeks of headlines have really 223 00:12:40,450 --> 00:12:45,290 S2: focused on him, his actions or lack thereof. And, you know, 224 00:12:45,330 --> 00:12:49,130 S2: Lee has done a what has been an effective job 225 00:12:49,130 --> 00:12:53,370 S2: of prosecuting that case against the government. Whether that ends 226 00:12:53,370 --> 00:12:55,610 S2: up rewarding her politically is yet to be seen. And 227 00:12:55,610 --> 00:12:57,250 S2: a lot of the polling that's come out so far, 228 00:12:57,250 --> 00:13:00,570 S2: we've seen Albanese take a huge fall in his personal 229 00:13:00,850 --> 00:13:04,890 S2: popularity and performance ratings. We've seen labor slide back a 230 00:13:04,890 --> 00:13:08,290 S2: little bit, but, you know, we haven't seen the coalition, 231 00:13:08,290 --> 00:13:11,050 S2: for example, jump in and make up that ground. We 232 00:13:11,050 --> 00:13:15,170 S2: haven't seen Lee go forward in personal performance either. A 233 00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:17,530 S2: lot of that has actually gone towards one nation. And 234 00:13:17,530 --> 00:13:20,410 S2: so we're in a situation this week where both our poll, 235 00:13:20,450 --> 00:13:24,370 S2: the Resolve Political Monitor and Newspoll have one nation sitting 236 00:13:24,370 --> 00:13:28,850 S2: at kind of record levels of popularity. But either way, 237 00:13:28,890 --> 00:13:33,449 S2: there has been this fall in the government's stakes that Lee, 238 00:13:34,090 --> 00:13:38,890 S2: you know, should be riding on to be kind of 239 00:13:38,929 --> 00:13:42,130 S2: crude in political terms. And instead they've ended the week 240 00:13:42,130 --> 00:13:44,809 S2: in this way. So that, I assume, will be quite 241 00:13:44,850 --> 00:13:49,050 S2: disappointing for her and ironic given that they have kind 242 00:13:49,050 --> 00:13:51,450 S2: of had the upper hand, if you will, in this 243 00:13:52,050 --> 00:13:54,809 S2: kind of political dynamic for the last four weeks. 244 00:13:55,250 --> 00:13:57,010 S1: And do you think this gives us a kind of 245 00:13:57,050 --> 00:14:00,610 S1: indication of the parliamentary year ahead, or is this was 246 00:14:00,610 --> 00:14:02,850 S1: this too rushed to process to really give us a 247 00:14:02,850 --> 00:14:03,890 S1: a realistic look? 248 00:14:04,210 --> 00:14:08,170 S2: It'll be interesting, right? Because Albanese, he was so strong 249 00:14:08,170 --> 00:14:10,010 S2: at the end of last year and the kind of 250 00:14:10,010 --> 00:14:13,050 S2: narrative around him was, okay, this guy's here now for 251 00:14:13,050 --> 00:14:16,970 S2: the next three years. He's got this huge majority in 252 00:14:16,970 --> 00:14:19,730 S2: the lower house. Kind of nothing can really stop him. 253 00:14:19,930 --> 00:14:23,170 S2: And then we had the kind of expenses situation at 254 00:14:23,170 --> 00:14:25,450 S2: the end of December take a bit of shine off 255 00:14:25,450 --> 00:14:29,290 S2: the government, followed by this very horrific attack, which is 256 00:14:29,290 --> 00:14:33,170 S2: really a time then when Australians look for leadership. Our 257 00:14:33,170 --> 00:14:35,530 S2: polling as well has shown that they found that lacking 258 00:14:35,530 --> 00:14:38,330 S2: in general when it comes to Albanese. So he has 259 00:14:38,330 --> 00:14:40,530 S2: got a lot of ground to make up in, showing 260 00:14:40,570 --> 00:14:44,570 S2: that he has the leadership qualities that people are looking for. 261 00:14:44,610 --> 00:14:48,610 S2: In times such as these, his popularity and his performance 262 00:14:48,610 --> 00:14:51,810 S2: ratings are now kind of at their record low phase 263 00:14:51,810 --> 00:14:53,890 S2: like he had. And it kind of mirrors, you know, 264 00:14:53,930 --> 00:14:56,290 S2: he had a big dip after The Voice. He had 265 00:14:56,290 --> 00:14:57,930 S2: a big dip around this time last year, when there 266 00:14:57,930 --> 00:15:00,970 S2: were a few other anti-Semitic incidents that were, you know, 267 00:15:01,010 --> 00:15:04,330 S2: dominating news headlines. And Peter Dutton at that time was 268 00:15:04,330 --> 00:15:07,970 S2: really attacking the government over that as well. So the 269 00:15:07,970 --> 00:15:10,770 S2: question will be how he recovers, you know, whether he 270 00:15:10,770 --> 00:15:13,010 S2: retains the support from his caucus. And it is worth 271 00:15:13,010 --> 00:15:15,610 S2: saying that, especially after the election, he does have a 272 00:15:15,610 --> 00:15:20,090 S2: very loyal caucus, but there is nonetheless kind of, I guess, 273 00:15:20,130 --> 00:15:24,330 S2: public support to be regained on his part. So that 274 00:15:24,330 --> 00:15:26,130 S2: will be a journey now going into the year. And 275 00:15:26,130 --> 00:15:28,970 S2: I think we can see with the Coalition and One Nation, 276 00:15:28,970 --> 00:15:30,770 S2: who's now come back this week for the first time 277 00:15:30,770 --> 00:15:33,850 S2: with Barnaby Joyce in the lower house as a representative. 278 00:15:34,050 --> 00:15:36,210 S2: That kind of spectra of one nation will continue to 279 00:15:36,250 --> 00:15:39,930 S2: haunt the coalition. And, you know, I think it would 280 00:15:39,930 --> 00:15:42,850 S2: be fair to say that the posturing on gun laws 281 00:15:42,850 --> 00:15:45,770 S2: from the coalition this week as well, and the decision 282 00:15:45,770 --> 00:15:50,210 S2: to vote against those was also like One Nation was 283 00:15:50,210 --> 00:15:53,210 S2: part of the mix there, too, because One Nation was 284 00:15:53,210 --> 00:15:56,570 S2: also mounting its own campaign against the government's gun reforms. 285 00:15:56,570 --> 00:15:59,130 S2: And so the nationals are really going to be competing 286 00:15:59,490 --> 00:16:01,410 S2: with one nation there, and that is going to keep 287 00:16:01,410 --> 00:16:04,490 S2: dragging Sussan Ley to that side of the debate. And 288 00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:07,530 S2: how she wades through that will ultimately determine whether she 289 00:16:07,530 --> 00:16:08,250 S2: stays on. 290 00:16:10,450 --> 00:16:13,250 S1: And MPs did pay tribute to the victims of the 291 00:16:13,250 --> 00:16:16,730 S1: Bondi shooting on Monday. But do you think that now, 292 00:16:16,770 --> 00:16:20,970 S1: after all this political in-fighting, it's kind of undermined those 293 00:16:20,970 --> 00:16:25,410 S1: efforts for peace and unity after one of Australia's worst 294 00:16:25,410 --> 00:16:26,730 S1: ever terror attacks? 295 00:16:27,170 --> 00:16:29,730 S2: I think what is clear after, you know, tragedies and 296 00:16:29,730 --> 00:16:32,490 S2: challenges that are faced by a nation, including Bondi, is 297 00:16:32,490 --> 00:16:36,850 S2: that people do look to leaders. They expect kind of 298 00:16:36,890 --> 00:16:41,170 S2: a moral authority. They expect decisiveness. They expect people to 299 00:16:41,210 --> 00:16:44,650 S2: rise above politics. I think the whole post Bondi environment 300 00:16:44,650 --> 00:16:47,890 S2: has been really challenging in that way. And I think 301 00:16:47,930 --> 00:16:51,450 S2: in the federal space, you know, you've had both opposition 302 00:16:51,450 --> 00:16:54,130 S2: leader and prime minister talking about unity, talking about a 303 00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:57,570 S2: desire for bipartisanship that hasn't been apparent in about a month. 304 00:16:57,930 --> 00:17:01,650 S2: This was pitched by the Prime Minister as a way 305 00:17:01,650 --> 00:17:05,210 S2: for the Parliament to come together. But very quickly, you know, 306 00:17:05,250 --> 00:17:07,650 S2: the nature of how quickly the laws came out, the 307 00:17:07,650 --> 00:17:11,170 S2: fact that they were presented as that one package that 308 00:17:11,210 --> 00:17:14,810 S2: kind of served to wedge the greens in the opposition, 309 00:17:14,930 --> 00:17:19,090 S2: people saw that as a cynical political tactic. And so 310 00:17:19,970 --> 00:17:22,129 S2: even from the start of this week, there was a 311 00:17:22,130 --> 00:17:24,449 S2: lot of politics. What we've ended up with is a 312 00:17:24,490 --> 00:17:27,050 S2: two bills that have passed. And, you know, Albanese saying 313 00:17:27,050 --> 00:17:31,450 S2: these will make Australia stronger. But neither had consistent support 314 00:17:31,450 --> 00:17:34,530 S2: across the parliament. So it kind of hasn't offered that 315 00:17:34,530 --> 00:17:38,090 S2: coming together or a kind of healing moment where I 316 00:17:38,090 --> 00:17:40,250 S2: think people can look to the federal Parliament and say, okay, 317 00:17:40,290 --> 00:17:42,130 S2: we've dealt with this and now let's move on in 318 00:17:42,130 --> 00:17:44,130 S2: a kind of more United way. 319 00:17:48,130 --> 00:17:50,209 S1: Well, thank you so much for your time today. Tas 320 00:17:50,210 --> 00:17:51,450 S1: it's been fantastic. 321 00:17:52,290 --> 00:17:53,050 S2: Thank you. 322 00:18:04,010 --> 00:18:07,530 S1: In other news today, there are growing concerns that Snapchat's 323 00:18:07,530 --> 00:18:12,290 S1: enforcement of Australia's world first under 16 social media restrictions 324 00:18:12,290 --> 00:18:17,490 S1: is failing vulnerable teenagers. And for the first time ever, 325 00:18:17,490 --> 00:18:21,690 S1: renewables supplied most of the energy to power Australia's east coast. 326 00:18:22,530 --> 00:18:28,570 S1: You can read more on theage.com.au or smh.com.au. Today's episode 327 00:18:28,570 --> 00:18:32,850 S1: was produced by Josh towers. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, 328 00:18:33,090 --> 00:18:37,170 S1: and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. 329 00:18:37,890 --> 00:18:40,330 S1: And if you like our show, follow the Morning Edition 330 00:18:40,330 --> 00:18:43,330 S1: and leave a review for us on Apple or Spotify. 331 00:18:44,290 --> 00:18:49,050 S1: Thanks for listening. I'm Julia Ketzel. This is the morning edition.