WEBVTT - Iran throwing rocks from the shadows

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<v Speaker 1>I read this report in the Wall Street Journal saying

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<v Speaker 1>that US officials and private experts are warned about being

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<v Speaker 1>warned about possible cyber attacks as a reciprocation from Iran.

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<v Speaker 1>So I thought i'd run this by futurist Skeeve Stevens,

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<v Speaker 1>who's on the phone. Good morning to you. Iran's capability

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<v Speaker 1>is it any good or is it we compared to

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<v Speaker 1>the others.

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<v Speaker 2>When we talk about significant, we're talking about significant as

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<v Speaker 2>they are a nation state.

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<v Speaker 3>What that means is do they have a lot of capabilities?

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<v Speaker 2>Do they have a limited money to do this sort

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<v Speaker 2>of things? Yes, they do, but when it comes down

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<v Speaker 2>to things like versus Israel or the United States, they're

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<v Speaker 2>in a kindergarten level, right. Iran essentially causes chaos, not damage.

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<v Speaker 3>So what they can do is I run around and.

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<v Speaker 2>They're mostly using things like social media, fake person personalities,

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<v Speaker 2>try to mess things up, muddle things up. So the

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<v Speaker 2>example of throwing from the shadows, meaning they can just

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<v Speaker 2>cause mess, but they don't really cause damage and significant damage,

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<v Speaker 2>but they can cause a bit of problems.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I'm led to believe that they have been doing

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<v Speaker 1>cyber attacks for a while.

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<v Speaker 3>So they just like to cause chaos and a certain things.

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<v Speaker 2>So they've like they've done things in the past where

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<v Speaker 2>they've hacked some of the water supply in Israel. But

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<v Speaker 2>you know, every time suddenly happens in Israel, they get

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<v Speaker 2>even better and better and better at it. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>Israel's potentially I would classify as number one in the

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<v Speaker 2>planet in cyber warfare capabilities. So most of the time Israel,

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<v Speaker 2>sorry to Israel, Iran likes to use their proxies. So

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<v Speaker 2>that's even with hacking groups and things like that. So

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<v Speaker 2>Hezblah has their little cyber activist units and so they're

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<v Speaker 2>mostly their proxies or people that believe in their sort

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<v Speaker 2>of I guess their philosophy, like to do little attacks

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<v Speaker 2>here and there where I mean in the previously the

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<v Speaker 2>time that banks where they've like caused malware problems. They

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<v Speaker 2>like to face websites and do simple denial of service attacks.

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<v Speaker 3>It's basically chaos. This is the way I refer to

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<v Speaker 3>it as it's like.

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<v Speaker 2>Messing things up as opposed to taking things like the

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<v Speaker 2>United States.

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<v Speaker 3>And Israel and even to a certain degree Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>If we attack someone's infrastructure, they're literally off the Internet,

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<v Speaker 2>they're going to be destroyed for a significant period of time.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's less strategic and more problematic. Then, yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 1>what I would say.

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<v Speaker 2>It's less strategic, and I mean they're more opportunistic as

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<v Speaker 2>opposed to strategic, meaning if they can break into some

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<v Speaker 2>supermarket websites or cause chaos and maybe take down with

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<v Speaker 2>the denial of service attack like either a bank or

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<v Speaker 2>some political websites during an election. That's the sort of

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<v Speaker 2>things I like to do. It's just like think of

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<v Speaker 2>them as you know, those protesters that are just run

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<v Speaker 2>around the streets breaking things.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the way that I run.

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<v Speaker 2>I run works from a cyber perspective, but it does

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<v Speaker 2>cause annoyance.

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<v Speaker 3>To a certain degree.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so they're not in the same league. Is Russia, say,

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<v Speaker 1>China or North Korea in places like that, then.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean North Carea is quite limited, but Russia

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<v Speaker 2>and China they do have significant resources. If places like

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<v Speaker 2>that are going to a take you let's say they

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<v Speaker 2>were going to attack Australia, they would be going after

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<v Speaker 2>electricity supplies, gas supplies, water supplies, those sort of things.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's I've.

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<v Speaker 2>Always said for many years now, the next war will

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<v Speaker 2>not be with soldiers on the front line.

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<v Speaker 3>It'll be you and me sitting in our homes when

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<v Speaker 3>the power goes out or the gas goes out.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember many years ago, many many years ago, on

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<v Speaker 2>a union in Melbourne, the gas supply infrastructure in Victoria

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<v Speaker 2>went out and we literally had to have like cold

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<v Speaker 2>showers for about two weeks as they repaired it. So

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<v Speaker 2>that's the sort of thing that they could take out now.

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<v Speaker 2>It's also one of the things people don't understand is

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<v Speaker 2>while there are lots of remote attacks, attributing blame is

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<v Speaker 2>quite difficult because very rarely well a remote states such

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<v Speaker 2>as Iran, Russia, China attack from.

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<v Speaker 3>Their own country.

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<v Speaker 2>It's very easy for us to actually block traffic from

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<v Speaker 2>those countries.

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<v Speaker 3>But what they do is they hack something in Germany.

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<v Speaker 2>That Germany server will hack something in Singapore at Singapore

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<v Speaker 2>service will has something in Australia, so the hack will

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<v Speaker 2>actually look like it comes.

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<v Speaker 3>From Australia itself.

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<v Speaker 2>So trying to say, oh, we're blocking all traffic from

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<v Speaker 2>xyz country when everyone says that, I just kind of

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<v Speaker 2>blob and go, yeah, Really, the Internet is designed not

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<v Speaker 2>to ever be affected, and you cannot take the Internet down.

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<v Speaker 1>I was in Queensland in the eighties when Sea queb

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<v Speaker 1>the Southeast Queensland Electricity Board we're having issues with the

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<v Speaker 1>Jobi occupedis and government and they intermittently cut off the

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<v Speaker 1>power and people were just going nuts. And I did

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<v Speaker 1>read that after seventy two hours, that's when people really

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<v Speaker 1>start to lose their mind if they haven't got electricity

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<v Speaker 1>and they haven't got hot water, like you said, so

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<v Speaker 1>something even for that minimal amount of time does cause

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<v Speaker 1>a huge amount of disruption.

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely does.

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<v Speaker 1>We have.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a weird psychological effect.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're sitting in your house, like I'm sitting here

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<v Speaker 2>right now, if my power goes out.

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<v Speaker 3>I go, what the hell? What's going on?

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<v Speaker 2>And then if I walk outside though, and I see

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<v Speaker 2>the entire streets out, I go, okay, shared suffering, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, that's right. We sort of chill out a bit.

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<v Speaker 3>But after a.

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<v Speaker 2>Period with electricity, especially when you lose start to lose

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<v Speaker 2>monetary value, like all the items in your freezer and

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<v Speaker 2>things like that, that's when people start to get upset.

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<v Speaker 3>But the thing that affects us the most is the

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<v Speaker 3>things that we never think about.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't sit here turning your tap on going, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>look at that, My taft's awesome.

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<v Speaker 3>I look at my phone. Until you don't have this exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Until these things that are just air to us, that

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<v Speaker 2>that we just breed daily, until they got to take

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<v Speaker 2>it away from us, we don't realize. But this is

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<v Speaker 2>how we are going to be on the front line.

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<v Speaker 2>But also all of the countries and I'm sure Australia

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<v Speaker 2>to we have operatives in all these other countries. This

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<v Speaker 2>is they all operators here, so they don't this is

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<v Speaker 2>just have to attack remotely siberly.

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<v Speaker 3>From far far away. They can do things here too.

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<v Speaker 1>I did see that the Wall Street Journal ran a

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<v Speaker 1>story about how regulators and governments were issuing warnings to

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<v Speaker 1>businesses to check their defenses. Are the usual defenses we've

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<v Speaker 1>got in place? Okay? Is there anything else that we

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<v Speaker 1>need to do in terms of what security we've got.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry to say this, Shire, but we are probably

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<v Speaker 2>one percent of what we need. Most people try to

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<v Speaker 2>do things themselves. It's like having backups. When was the

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<v Speaker 2>last time you even heard about people backing up servers? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Right? And like people just related to rely on the cloud.

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<v Speaker 2>They relying whatever product they buy, and they also rely

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<v Speaker 2>on whatever it's.

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<v Speaker 3>It integrator is telling them. Are we vulnerable?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, We don't change the passwords of our routers. Like

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<v Speaker 2>I did a talk the other day about accessing web cameras,

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<v Speaker 2>and the problem is it is so easy, and people

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<v Speaker 2>just keep the same factory default settings where you can

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<v Speaker 2>look into people's cameras, to their bedrooms, their bathrooms, their offices,

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<v Speaker 2>and you can see what's going on.

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<v Speaker 3>Because people don't bother. They just assume that technology is safe.

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<v Speaker 3>Now with everything from a few years ago is very

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<v Speaker 3>different now.

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<v Speaker 2>If you go to Bunning's website and look for the

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<v Speaker 2>term grid connect, you will see fans, heaters, light switches, power.

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<v Speaker 3>Everything is smart now. Everything has an IP address.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think it was last year that I was

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<v Speaker 2>messing with my neighbor because he would have bought a

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<v Speaker 2>fan and.

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<v Speaker 3>He didn't realize I was a smart fan and I

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<v Speaker 3>was working on my network at the time, and I

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<v Speaker 3>didn't do it. It's on purpose.

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<v Speaker 2>I went, oh, I don't know what's going on here.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a fan added itself to my network. So I

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<v Speaker 2>was turning his van on and off at three o'clock

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<v Speaker 2>in the morning and he didn't even realize I was

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<v Speaker 2>a smart fan and didn't know what was happening. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>imagine if that was like one of those little twenty

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<v Speaker 2>dollars powerpoints with an IP address in it, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>turning on and off something that's actually quite critical. Wow,

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<v Speaker 2>everything is smart. Now, everything is smart.

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder what people would be more annoyed at losing

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<v Speaker 1>a hot shower or the Internet.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is the Internet these days are kind

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<v Speaker 2>of ubiquitous. I mean, I sit here, I'm using starlink,

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<v Speaker 2>so you can't cut my cables. But then most people

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<v Speaker 2>are on five five G and mobile phones, so to

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<v Speaker 2>take out most people's.

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<v Speaker 3>Internet today, you'd actually have to take out the cellular

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<v Speaker 3>their works. So it's quite hard these days to do

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of that.

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<v Speaker 2>And the Internet's designed specifically to within built innate failover. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the sad thing is your house might not work,

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<v Speaker 2>your fridge might not work. You can't do anything, but

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<v Speaker 2>you can still post on TikTok.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, maybe I should have rephrased the question, what do

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<v Speaker 1>you think people would be more afraid to lose Facebook

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<v Speaker 1>or toilet paper?

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<v Speaker 3>Facebook probably made always good to do it. You Thank

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<v Speaker 3>you so much. No problem will