WEBVTT - KIC-Start Your New Year: career - with coach & founder Janey Martino 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:03.840 Listener. 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:07.400 Seeqpod acknowledges the traditional owners and custodians of the land 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:10.640 in which we are recording this podcast. The Yeolekar Woollen 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:13.039 Clan of the Boomerang, who are a part of the 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.560 Kulin nation. We pay our respects to our elders, past 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.960 and present, and extend our respect to Aboriginal and Torres 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:21.520 Strait Islander peoples today. 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:24.520 Welcome to the Kick Pod, a. 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.080 Dam with your besties on the stuff that matters. 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:27.840 One. Two. 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:36.879 Three. Four. One. Two. Three. Four. 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:39.000 Hello, hello. 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:44.479 Today team is a very, very good episode. You are 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:47.199 going to want to stay tuned. I mean, obviously if 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:52.599 you're already listening, it's likely you're here because you are 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:55.440 ready to buckle in for this episode. Today we have 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:58.960 got on the wonderful Janie Martino. Now, you might have 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.610 heard Janie on the podcast before she came and spoke 0:01:01.610 --> 0:01:04.330 on the do I Want Kids mini series on the 0:01:04.330 --> 0:01:09.210 episode where we spoke about Korea. And then she also 0:01:09.209 --> 0:01:12.810 came and did a double episode. It was last year 0:01:12.850 --> 0:01:17.010 now because we were in 2025 where we spoke about 0:01:17.010 --> 0:01:21.970 navigating difficult conversations, not making assumptions and not taking things personally. 0:01:22.050 --> 0:01:26.050 So outside of being a very regular podcast guest, Janie 0:01:26.050 --> 0:01:29.210 actually does a lot of things she does. This is 0:01:29.209 --> 0:01:32.970 not really her main thing. So Janie is the co-founder 0:01:32.970 --> 0:01:37.330 of Smiling Mine and is also a amazing coach. Janie 0:01:37.330 --> 0:01:41.770 has a business called Kintsugi Way and she is also 0:01:41.890 --> 0:01:46.050 Steph and my personal coach as well. She just has 0:01:46.370 --> 0:01:50.170 so much wisdom and knowledge, which is why we're so 0:01:50.170 --> 0:01:53.890 excited about this. And she has also just published two books. 0:01:53.970 --> 0:01:56.730 So for anyone that has listened to episodes with Janie 0:01:56.730 --> 0:02:00.490 and wants to learn more. Work with her in some way. 0:02:00.490 --> 0:02:02.930 These books are a really, really good way to do that. 0:02:03.010 --> 0:02:05.810 The first one is called The Little Book of Keshiki. 0:02:05.850 --> 0:02:07.810 I think that's how you say it, which is rituals. 0:02:07.890 --> 0:02:10.490 And then the second one is the little Book of Goru, 0:02:10.530 --> 0:02:11.890 which is goals. 0:02:12.690 --> 0:02:14.889 And they're so good. And I saw that you and 0:02:14.889 --> 0:02:17.609 Dalton got started on them at the start of the year, 0:02:17.610 --> 0:02:20.250 and I ordered them right before the break. And so 0:02:20.250 --> 0:02:22.250 I quickly messaged her once I ordered it and I 0:02:22.250 --> 0:02:24.649 was like, I'm about to leave for the river. Maybe 0:02:24.650 --> 0:02:26.850 don't post it yet, otherwise it'll be sitting at my 0:02:26.850 --> 0:02:30.370 house for ages. Um, but basically the second I got home, 0:02:30.370 --> 0:02:31.930 I was like, okay, I'd like to come pick them 0:02:31.930 --> 0:02:34.050 up now because I was really excited to look at 0:02:34.090 --> 0:02:37.890 them and they're so amazing. I feel like nearly every 0:02:37.889 --> 0:02:41.250 year I've bought myself a new kind of daily journal 0:02:41.250 --> 0:02:44.169 or Morning Journal or something to kind of practice, and 0:02:44.970 --> 0:02:47.010 whether or not it's my ADHD, I've never really been 0:02:47.010 --> 0:02:49.329 able to stick to them. Or if I do, it's 0:02:49.330 --> 0:02:51.889 kind of like, I'll do it for a week and 0:02:51.889 --> 0:02:53.930 then I'll drop off for like three months and then 0:02:53.930 --> 0:02:55.370 I'll get back into it or whatever. 0:02:55.370 --> 0:02:59.060 I think that's very common sometimes with people with journaling 100%. 0:02:59.100 --> 0:03:00.540 Especially this time of year. Yeah. 0:03:00.540 --> 0:03:02.820 Yeah, totally. But I think what I love about these 0:03:02.860 --> 0:03:04.540 kind of journals and stuff like that and this the 0:03:04.540 --> 0:03:06.899 one that I'm speaking about right now is the rituals one, 0:03:06.900 --> 0:03:09.940 the keshiki, um, where it's kind of like a daily 0:03:09.940 --> 0:03:12.980 check in Am and PM. I love when it's really prompted. 0:03:12.980 --> 0:03:16.139 Really simple. Do do love that. Um, and that's what 0:03:16.139 --> 0:03:19.179 this is. But there's also so much information prior, um, 0:03:19.180 --> 0:03:21.700 in both the goals and Rituals book. Um, that really 0:03:21.700 --> 0:03:24.380 kind of sets you up for then what the book entails. 0:03:24.380 --> 0:03:27.780 So highly recommend both of them. They are incredible. I 0:03:27.780 --> 0:03:31.140 actually got a few DMs when I posted about it, um, asking. 0:03:31.139 --> 0:03:33.580 And one person was like, oh my gosh, I recognized 0:03:33.580 --> 0:03:36.340 Janie's name! I'm so excited for this book because I 0:03:36.380 --> 0:03:40.260 loved her podcast. So if that's you and you're listening again, 0:03:40.260 --> 0:03:44.020 you are going to absolutely love this one again. Um, 0:03:44.020 --> 0:03:46.780 we are talking about careers basically, because at this time 0:03:46.780 --> 0:03:49.500 of year and we've spoken about this with, um, these 0:03:49.500 --> 0:03:51.700 episodes to, to start the year is you kind of 0:03:51.740 --> 0:03:56.220 reflect and decide, I suppose, on what you're doing this 0:03:56.220 --> 0:03:58.470 year when it comes to comes to relationships, big life 0:03:58.470 --> 0:04:01.390 things and career is a massive part of that. And 0:04:01.390 --> 0:04:02.910 whether or not you feel like you're in the right 0:04:02.910 --> 0:04:06.750 career and the right job, is it fulfilling you, etc. 0:04:06.750 --> 0:04:09.630 we cover a lot of that and working out your 0:04:09.630 --> 0:04:13.150 strengths within a role is this job serving me? Is 0:04:13.150 --> 0:04:15.470 the job. Is it something else? And I think because 0:04:15.470 --> 0:04:18.750 of Janie's incredible, what she referred to as a yellow 0:04:18.750 --> 0:04:21.270 brick road of a career, um, she's had a lot 0:04:21.270 --> 0:04:25.589 of experience in trying different things, finding what feels right, 0:04:25.670 --> 0:04:27.590 and then moving on when it's not right, and that 0:04:27.589 --> 0:04:30.870 being totally okay. So I think you're going to get 0:04:30.870 --> 0:04:34.109 so much out of it, I certainly did. Um, and 0:04:34.110 --> 0:04:36.310 that's all because the rest of it's cold. So I'm 0:04:36.310 --> 0:04:39.229 going to go now, but here's our chat with the 0:04:39.230 --> 0:04:40.670 wonderful Janie Martineau. 0:04:42.190 --> 0:04:45.589 Hi, Janie. Hi. How are you? Very good. It's so 0:04:45.589 --> 0:04:47.790 nice to have you back. I love being here. 0:04:48.110 --> 0:04:50.510 And our listeners, the cloud links. They love you. Did 0:04:50.510 --> 0:04:52.270 you know we call them cloud links? No. Just in 0:04:52.270 --> 0:04:54.190 case you're looking at me like. What are you talking about? Yeah. 0:04:54.230 --> 0:04:57.830 Our listeners are our cloud links, and they love your episodes. 0:04:57.830 --> 0:04:59.470 They were some of our most downloaded. I think one 0:04:59.470 --> 0:05:01.350 of them actually was our in the top three of 0:05:01.350 --> 0:05:01.909 the whole year. 0:05:02.110 --> 0:05:06.029 Oh my goodness. Wow. Very excited. So thank you for that. No. 0:05:06.070 --> 0:05:08.710 Well thank you. I've got to work with you. And 0:05:08.830 --> 0:05:10.989 there are things that we all want to talk about 0:05:10.990 --> 0:05:13.750 and work through. So I'm glad they're resonating. 0:05:13.990 --> 0:05:17.550 And today we have you on to speak all things career. 0:05:17.550 --> 0:05:19.789 We could not think of a better person to talk to. 0:05:19.830 --> 0:05:22.670 So thank you for joining us. Sure. Now at this 0:05:22.670 --> 0:05:24.710 time of the year, it's the start of January. People 0:05:24.710 --> 0:05:28.430 are starting to think about their job, and maybe they've 0:05:28.430 --> 0:05:30.150 just had a bit of a break and they're going 0:05:30.150 --> 0:05:33.390 back and they're possibly thinking about like, am I doing 0:05:33.830 --> 0:05:39.229 the right job for me? How do we navigate that? 0:05:39.230 --> 0:05:41.190 And I suppose, how do you know if you are 0:05:41.190 --> 0:05:43.029 in the right industry or company? I know that's a 0:05:43.029 --> 0:05:44.190 very big question to start. 0:05:44.190 --> 0:05:47.909 With, coming out punching. I like it, I like it. Look, 0:05:47.910 --> 0:05:53.070 I think the number one thing is how you feel 0:05:53.589 --> 0:05:57.680 when you're there and it's really about checking in and 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.000 all the work I've done this year. You know, my 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.480 number one motto that I want to go into 2025 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:07.000 with is think less, feel more. Because I just think 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:12.800 we're so busy, uh, being busy and doing that, we 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.880 really forget. Even just at moments throughout the day to 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.440 tune in and and really check in with how we're 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:22.640 feeling in our bodies and in our lives. Uh, and 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.640 are we really in our lives? Um, so that's the 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.560 first question I'd be asking. Like, am I really in 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.560 my career and in my work? And when I'm there, 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.120 am I being present? And when I'm being present, how 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.680 do I feel? Does it light me up and in 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.920 the moments it doesn't? Why is that? Then the other 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:44.440 important question I think to ask is, is the reason 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:49.159 that I mightn't be feeling good to do with the 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.600 work itself, or is it actually something more to do 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:55.890 with me? Because I think one thing I've noticed throughout 0:06:55.890 --> 0:06:59.610 my career is I often push, I don't like this, 0:06:59.890 --> 0:07:02.970 this job, or I'm not. I'm not really into this client. 0:07:03.410 --> 0:07:05.930 And a lot of the time, actually, when I step back, 0:07:06.410 --> 0:07:09.330 there were things going on for me and I needed 0:07:09.330 --> 0:07:11.930 to grow or improve in an area that I was 0:07:11.970 --> 0:07:15.890 actually finding really challenging. And perhaps I was getting negative 0:07:15.890 --> 0:07:21.290 feedback and I was feeling pretty defensive and down about it. Um, 0:07:21.290 --> 0:07:25.770 so then that what was actually about me became about 0:07:25.770 --> 0:07:29.730 the job or the work? Um, so, you know, is 0:07:29.730 --> 0:07:32.610 there an opportunity to say, is there something going on 0:07:32.610 --> 0:07:36.370 for me that this gives me the chance to unpack 0:07:36.490 --> 0:07:39.890 and improve upon, which will only help me across multiple 0:07:39.890 --> 0:07:43.250 areas of my life? Um, and then the other thing 0:07:43.250 --> 0:07:47.890 I'd say is, is it about the actual work itself? 0:07:49.130 --> 0:07:52.090 Is it playing to my strengths? Um, you know, are 0:07:52.090 --> 0:07:54.850 there is are there components of it doesn't have to 0:07:54.850 --> 0:07:56.930 be everything, but are there components of it that I 0:07:56.930 --> 0:08:03.650 really love or is it about the workplace, the environment? Um, 0:08:03.650 --> 0:08:08.290 and could I unpack the work? Yes, I am playing 0:08:08.330 --> 0:08:11.170 to my strengths. I am doing what I enjoy, I'm 0:08:11.170 --> 0:08:14.650 just not enjoying the environment. So they're probably the three 0:08:14.650 --> 0:08:18.370 things I'd say. Is it me? Is it the work 0:08:18.570 --> 0:08:20.970 that I'm doing and the tasks and the time? Or 0:08:20.970 --> 0:08:22.290 is it the environment? 0:08:22.730 --> 0:08:24.730 I think that's so powerful. And when when you talk 0:08:24.730 --> 0:08:28.250 about how do I feel? I mean, obviously that's something 0:08:28.250 --> 0:08:30.290 that we've worked on. I've been so lucky to work 0:08:30.290 --> 0:08:32.130 with you a lot on that this year, but it's 0:08:32.130 --> 0:08:35.730 really hard to do so for people listening and maybe 0:08:35.730 --> 0:08:37.290 in the day to day there's parts of their roles 0:08:37.290 --> 0:08:38.970 like I think for a lot of us that we 0:08:38.970 --> 0:08:41.090 really enjoy and like kind of light us up. And 0:08:41.090 --> 0:08:43.089 then there's maybe the more admin or whatever it might 0:08:43.090 --> 0:08:45.090 be stuff that just does not like. Well, for me, 0:08:45.130 --> 0:08:47.050 admin stuff doesn't light me up. For some people it does. 0:08:47.170 --> 0:08:51.370 Everyone's different, of course, if people are maybe working on 0:08:51.370 --> 0:08:55.140 a project that isn't there. Their biggest strength or something 0:08:55.140 --> 0:08:56.900 that they love. But it's not a huge part of 0:08:56.940 --> 0:09:00.820 their role. And when they're doing that, they don't feel motivated. 0:09:01.380 --> 0:09:03.340 How do you kind of which is probably normal. How 0:09:03.340 --> 0:09:06.020 do you decipher between the maybe the stuff you don't 0:09:06.020 --> 0:09:08.020 like so much that's just a part of the job? 0:09:08.179 --> 0:09:10.340 Because then you get to do the big, exciting stuff 0:09:10.980 --> 0:09:13.179 and that feeling. Yeah. 0:09:13.220 --> 0:09:18.060 Um, I would say the best analogy I could give 0:09:18.059 --> 0:09:24.219 for that is relationships, love. Um, I mean, at some point, 0:09:24.260 --> 0:09:27.540 once you're going through dating and you become partners and 0:09:27.540 --> 0:09:30.660 you live together, you're going to have to use the 0:09:30.660 --> 0:09:34.700 same toilet. Yeah, you're going to have to do jobs 0:09:34.700 --> 0:09:38.740 you don't like. And there will even be parts of 0:09:38.740 --> 0:09:43.059 that person that perhaps aren't as exciting or engaging and 0:09:43.059 --> 0:09:48.500 may borderline border on frustrating. Um, but overall, you feel 0:09:48.500 --> 0:09:52.349 good when you're with that person and you love that person. 0:09:52.910 --> 0:09:55.150 And you understand that that's that's part of it. So 0:09:55.150 --> 0:09:57.230 I think that's what probably what I would say is 0:09:57.230 --> 0:10:02.030 that what is the weighting in, you know, how much 0:10:02.030 --> 0:10:05.230 of it is part of the job and part of, 0:10:05.270 --> 0:10:09.350 you know, moving forward and, and building on skills and 0:10:09.390 --> 0:10:12.670 foundational and what is it? You know, what part of 0:10:12.670 --> 0:10:17.110 it is just pervasive? I don't enjoy this, and I'm 0:10:17.150 --> 0:10:21.870 not actually using my capacity and using my potential. And 0:10:21.870 --> 0:10:24.910 I think, yeah, it's exactly the same as relationships, you know, 0:10:24.910 --> 0:10:28.870 am I being my best self in this relationship, even 0:10:28.910 --> 0:10:33.870 though we have good times and bad times? Um, overall, 0:10:33.870 --> 0:10:37.190 if I step back, what is actually going on here? 0:10:37.190 --> 0:10:39.310 So I think, yeah, that's the best way to look 0:10:39.309 --> 0:10:41.870 at it in my opinion. I think that's the perfect analogy. 0:10:41.990 --> 0:10:43.310 As as soon as you said that, I was like, 0:10:43.309 --> 0:10:46.110 that makes so much sense. Um, and so what about 0:10:46.110 --> 0:10:49.910 if someone's worked out that maybe it's not the job itself, however, 0:10:49.910 --> 0:10:51.110 they want to get to get more out of it 0:10:51.150 --> 0:10:54.150 because they're not 100% happy in the job, but they 0:10:54.150 --> 0:10:56.350 don't want to quit their job and try and find 0:10:56.350 --> 0:10:59.150 another company, or try and find another direction. They're still 0:10:59.150 --> 0:11:01.790 working through that. How can they get more out of 0:11:01.830 --> 0:11:03.470 their role or the best out of their role? 0:11:03.790 --> 0:11:09.150 Yeah, I think that's about actually realizing that there's a 0:11:09.150 --> 0:11:14.630 lot you can control. Um, you can control how you 0:11:14.670 --> 0:11:19.070 show up and the attitude and the level of dedication 0:11:19.150 --> 0:11:21.470 to what you're doing, even if you know, it's not 0:11:21.510 --> 0:11:25.550 the ultimate dream for you. And doing that allows you 0:11:25.550 --> 0:11:28.910 to then I think, focus on some other things, which 0:11:28.910 --> 0:11:32.550 is is there something else in this role or in 0:11:32.550 --> 0:11:37.350 this company that I could do or work towards while 0:11:37.350 --> 0:11:39.990 I'm working out what else I want to do or 0:11:39.990 --> 0:11:42.150 where I exactly want to go? And it might not 0:11:42.150 --> 0:11:45.070 have to be a big stretch, but is there something 0:11:45.070 --> 0:11:49.760 I could identify? And maybe it's not advertised, and maybe 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:53.280 it's not exactly on the job description, but gives you 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.800 an opportunity to grow your skills or try something new, 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.240 but also gives you an opportunity to do something great 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.840 for the company and your manager, or the person you 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.520 know and or team that you're working with. And that's 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:11.000 great for two reasons. One is because you're being proactive 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.480 in thinking about others or how you can contribute more 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.959 to the company, which is always like teams that have 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.280 worked for me, that have been proactive. I always think 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:25.120 highly of them, and I'm always happy to coach because 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:29.480 I think, wow, you've actually taken the time to identify like, yes, 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.679 it's beneficial to you, but you've also told me why 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:37.360 it's going to be beneficial to me and or the company. Um, 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.960 and then I guess sitting down with the appropriate person 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.760 and actually working out, okay, here's a bit of a 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.120 plan and here's some goals that I've got and that 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.730 potentially is out of a review process. Like you don't 0:12:49.730 --> 0:12:51.970 have to wait. The thing I would say about that 0:12:51.970 --> 0:12:55.690 is you don't have to wait for formal processes to 0:12:55.730 --> 0:12:59.930 make some of those moves as well. Um, so yeah, 0:12:59.970 --> 0:13:03.650 and then working out a bit of a plan and saying, 0:13:03.650 --> 0:13:09.410 what are the gaps that I have? And then workshopping 0:13:09.410 --> 0:13:12.050 that with the person and saying, okay, this is this 0:13:12.050 --> 0:13:14.210 might be a way that I can go and do that. 0:13:14.770 --> 0:13:18.170 And then it would be looking around and saying, who 0:13:18.170 --> 0:13:22.050 is someone either at that workplace or within my circle, 0:13:23.530 --> 0:13:26.410 who might do something similar or who I might be 0:13:26.450 --> 0:13:28.610 able to talk to? And it doesn't have to be 0:13:28.610 --> 0:13:33.290 a formal mentor, but talk to to actually find out more. 0:13:33.290 --> 0:13:36.530 And that even could be someone you don't know. Um, 0:13:36.530 --> 0:13:40.610 so I've got my middle son just finished year 12. Um, 0:13:40.610 --> 0:13:42.890 and obviously that's a time when, you know, he's looking 0:13:42.890 --> 0:13:45.970 for courses. So I had a similar discussion with him 0:13:45.970 --> 0:13:49.770 and said, what about finding out someone you admire. You 0:13:49.770 --> 0:13:51.890 don't have to know them or have any connection to them. 0:13:52.530 --> 0:13:55.809 And go onto their Wikipedia page and just find out 0:13:55.809 --> 0:14:00.209 what degree they did and what he found by doing 0:14:00.210 --> 0:14:02.370 that was that some of them did degrees that had 0:14:02.370 --> 0:14:06.210 nothing to do with what they were doing now. So 0:14:06.250 --> 0:14:09.490 that then gave him a feeling of hope and inspiration 0:14:09.490 --> 0:14:11.010 that it's not the end of the world. If you 0:14:11.010 --> 0:14:14.010 pick something and he doesn't love it, and it's similar. 0:14:14.010 --> 0:14:16.770 If you have those conversations or look at other people's 0:14:17.090 --> 0:14:21.490 LinkedIn or profiles outside and say, oh, okay, actually, if 0:14:21.530 --> 0:14:25.690 you go right back to just after they graduated from university, 0:14:26.090 --> 0:14:29.290 they might be doing something completely different. So I think 0:14:29.290 --> 0:14:32.170 that's a really important step to to also realise that 0:14:32.170 --> 0:14:35.570 the people you might look at and admire and what 0:14:35.570 --> 0:14:38.490 they're doing now is probably very different. 0:14:38.890 --> 0:14:41.210 Yeah, it's so true. And I think what's also so 0:14:41.210 --> 0:14:44.690 important within that is this the self-awareness, but also the 0:14:44.690 --> 0:14:48.180 control that that we have. So I think what often 0:14:48.180 --> 0:14:50.780 can happen in these situations if someone's not happy within 0:14:50.780 --> 0:14:52.980 their role, maybe because they want more of a challenge 0:14:52.980 --> 0:14:54.940 or they want other things within their role that they 0:14:54.940 --> 0:14:57.180 haven't done before, and they want to build on those strengths, 0:14:57.180 --> 0:14:59.620 but that technically isn't in their role. It can kind 0:14:59.620 --> 0:15:01.620 of sometimes go two ways. One way is that they 0:15:01.660 --> 0:15:03.820 leave the company. And then I think from like an 0:15:03.820 --> 0:15:06.900 employer's perspective, sometimes I think like, goodness me, I wish 0:15:06.900 --> 0:15:09.620 you spoke to me because we could have made something work. 0:15:09.620 --> 0:15:11.260 And it's that assumption that, oh, they won't be able 0:15:11.260 --> 0:15:13.420 to make something work, so I won't ask. But I 0:15:13.420 --> 0:15:16.739 think second of all is the awareness that you can't. 0:15:17.180 --> 0:15:19.060 I don't think you'll get a good outcome if you 0:15:19.060 --> 0:15:22.420 go to your employer and say, I don't know, just 0:15:22.420 --> 0:15:25.260 say you're currently working in, I'm going to use podcasting 0:15:25.260 --> 0:15:27.980 for an example. You're editing videos, but you want to 0:15:27.980 --> 0:15:29.980 become a producer, and you go to your boss and 0:15:29.980 --> 0:15:31.860 you say, okay, I want to be a producer now. 0:15:31.860 --> 0:15:34.220 So I don't want to do any video editing. That 0:15:34.220 --> 0:15:36.780 for a business is so difficult because they haven't budgeted 0:15:36.780 --> 0:15:39.620 for another producer role. They then need to backfill your role. 0:15:39.940 --> 0:15:42.380 And I think as if someone came to me with that, 0:15:42.420 --> 0:15:45.220 what would be difficult is that they've only considered themselves 0:15:45.220 --> 0:15:48.070 and they haven't considered the business, which is really important. 0:15:48.150 --> 0:15:50.470 You have to balance that. So I think that is 0:15:50.470 --> 0:15:53.510 such good advice and good advice. The easier you can 0:15:53.510 --> 0:15:56.350 make it for your employer to make those changes. So 0:15:56.350 --> 0:15:58.470 if you've acknowledged and I think as well, it's like 0:15:58.470 --> 0:16:00.150 if you're asking to be a producer when you've never 0:16:00.150 --> 0:16:02.630 done it before, it's very likely there's gaps in your 0:16:02.630 --> 0:16:05.710 skill set, right. So owning, owning that and saying, here's 0:16:05.710 --> 0:16:07.310 what I need to learn. I know what I need 0:16:07.310 --> 0:16:09.790 to learn, here's how I'm going to upskill, and here's 0:16:09.790 --> 0:16:11.070 how I'm going to be able to do my job 0:16:11.070 --> 0:16:13.470 and maybe get a little bit of experience in that. 0:16:13.830 --> 0:16:15.990 And that way, then I think it's really easy to 0:16:16.030 --> 0:16:18.950 come to a solution, and you're so much more likely 0:16:19.230 --> 0:16:21.550 to kind of move forward with your employer instead of 0:16:21.550 --> 0:16:23.190 kind of leaving them being like, oh, I don't know 0:16:23.190 --> 0:16:25.430 how I can, like, I really love I love you 0:16:25.430 --> 0:16:27.430 as a team member. I think you contribute to culture. 0:16:27.430 --> 0:16:29.470 You're fantastic at your job, but I don't know if 0:16:29.470 --> 0:16:31.230 I can just make you a new job on the 0:16:31.230 --> 0:16:33.950 spot because it's not in the business plan. And, you know, 0:16:33.950 --> 0:16:36.750 obviously we all have budgets and headcount allocation and things, 0:16:36.870 --> 0:16:38.790 and so that can sometimes make it harder. 0:16:38.910 --> 0:16:41.390 Oh yeah. For sure. I think that's a very good point. 0:16:41.750 --> 0:16:44.590 And I think I was going to go into the 0:16:44.790 --> 0:16:46.950 kind of opposite spectrum is in like the bit more 0:16:46.950 --> 0:16:49.030 extreme if someone's figured out, actually, you know, I want 0:16:49.030 --> 0:16:51.830 a complete career change. Where do we begin? But before 0:16:51.830 --> 0:16:54.070 we go there, I feel like what you've touched on earlier, 0:16:54.110 --> 0:16:55.990 even in like tuning into how you feel at work 0:16:55.990 --> 0:16:59.710 or doing certain tasks, etc., can be easier said than 0:16:59.750 --> 0:17:01.830 done in like working out what your strengths are, what 0:17:01.830 --> 0:17:04.470 brings you joy, that sort of stuff. So do you 0:17:04.470 --> 0:17:06.709 mind touching on that first? Because I think regardless of 0:17:06.710 --> 0:17:08.350 whether you just want a bit of a role change 0:17:08.350 --> 0:17:11.030 or some responsibility change, or you want to upskill and 0:17:11.030 --> 0:17:13.590 like work towards something, or you want to completely change 0:17:13.590 --> 0:17:16.910 your career path, you kind of got to really understand, 0:17:16.950 --> 0:17:20.190 like what it is you're actually going to enjoy and 0:17:20.190 --> 0:17:24.310 feel challenged and, um, you know, uh, want to do 0:17:24.310 --> 0:17:26.510 and feel motivated to do, um, if it is going 0:17:26.510 --> 0:17:28.109 to be a big change. So how do people figure 0:17:28.109 --> 0:17:28.629 that out? 0:17:28.830 --> 0:17:32.470 Yeah, I think strengths is something I work with people 0:17:32.470 --> 0:17:34.510 a lot on this and a lot of people find 0:17:34.510 --> 0:17:40.470 it hard. Haha. Um, the best way I always try 0:17:40.470 --> 0:17:44.920 and go back to when you're younger because generally those 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:50.000 like base strengths and foundational strengths don't necessarily change. They 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:53.200 will evolve and you'll you'll grow, you know, build on them. 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:55.719 So that's one thing like, what did I love to 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:57.879 do when I was younger and when I, you know, 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.200 a lot of people say at uni or they might have, 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.359 you know, contributed to the magazine or done really creative things. 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.600 And so you start to tap into, okay, maybe actually, 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.720 I am really creative and I've just that's been lost somewhere. 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:12.800 And you know, I need to build that back in. 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:15.480 So it it does also give you clues to what 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:17.640 you used to love and what lit you up. And 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.040 would that still light you up? Are you still doing it? 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:25.160 Why not? So that's one part. Um, and the other 0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:29.359 part is, what are you doing when you're in flow? 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:36.600 So when you're, you're at your most productive, but also like, 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.719 you feel good and, and everything comes together. Um, and 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.090 that's not to say that, you know, there's not speed bumps, 0:18:44.090 --> 0:18:46.850 but you know, when you're sitting at your desk or 0:18:46.930 --> 0:18:50.810 you're in a room doing an activity, it doesn't even 0:18:50.810 --> 0:18:54.810 have to be like formal work, office work. Um, and 0:18:54.810 --> 0:18:58.330 the time just passes. Yeah. And you don't even notice 0:18:58.450 --> 0:19:00.850 that's being in flow. I imagine that probably happens for 0:19:00.850 --> 0:19:04.330 you both here when you're having those conversations. And that's 0:19:04.330 --> 0:19:06.530 a really good clue. And then the third thing, which 0:19:06.530 --> 0:19:10.050 I've done this again recently, um, I love doing it 0:19:10.050 --> 0:19:14.250 every few years. But I asked a group of people 0:19:14.250 --> 0:19:16.370 close to me, um, as well as some that I 0:19:16.369 --> 0:19:20.570 work with, what my superpower was because I really wanted 0:19:20.570 --> 0:19:24.250 to hone in on. I believe I'm doing what I 0:19:24.250 --> 0:19:27.410 love and what I'm good at, but I also wanted 0:19:27.450 --> 0:19:32.169 other people's perspective. And I actually got some really insightful 0:19:32.170 --> 0:19:36.850 things that I hadn't necessarily been thinking about. Um, so 0:19:36.850 --> 0:19:39.129 that's the other thing I'd say is that obviously people 0:19:39.130 --> 0:19:45.409 you trust, people that are objective as well. Um, and 0:19:45.410 --> 0:19:47.090 not just going to tell you what you want to hear, 0:19:47.090 --> 0:19:50.889 but I think those three things pulled together. Yeah, are 0:19:50.890 --> 0:19:51.810 quite powerful. 0:19:52.609 --> 0:19:55.610 I love that idea because it's we can also be 0:19:55.609 --> 0:19:58.650 like our worst critic in that you can kind of 0:19:58.690 --> 0:20:01.530 focus more on what maybe you're not so good at 0:20:01.570 --> 0:20:03.330 and kind of forget about the strengths. So I think 0:20:03.330 --> 0:20:05.290 that's a fantastic exercise. Yeah. 0:20:05.330 --> 0:20:06.969 And it's I mean it's very it's so hard to do. 0:20:06.970 --> 0:20:08.409 I remember when I first came to you and I 0:20:08.410 --> 0:20:10.369 was like, I think I asked you to. I was like, 0:20:10.369 --> 0:20:11.929 I need to do a test and see if I'm 0:20:11.970 --> 0:20:14.850 good at my job so you can make me a test. 0:20:14.890 --> 0:20:17.890 You're like, wow, wow, we've got some work to do 0:20:17.890 --> 0:20:21.170 with this lady anyway. But it is. It's hard to do. 0:20:21.290 --> 0:20:24.050 It is. Yeah. I think the other thing is your 0:20:24.050 --> 0:20:28.010 strengths don't always bring you joy. Yeah. Yeah. So that's 0:20:28.010 --> 0:20:32.969 okay to acknowledge as well. And you know, our we 0:20:32.970 --> 0:20:36.889 shouldn't put all of our expectations on the job delivering 0:20:36.890 --> 0:20:41.900 us everything. No. Again, just like a relationship. Tube. Um, 0:20:41.940 --> 0:20:44.500 you know, my friends often say to me, it's not 0:20:44.500 --> 0:20:47.100 going to be perfect. There's always going to be something. 0:20:47.100 --> 0:20:51.060 And it's so true. Um, and that's part of it. Like, 0:20:51.500 --> 0:20:53.580 you know, it's actually weighing up what are the things 0:20:53.580 --> 0:20:56.660 that are most important. And I think that's where your 0:20:56.660 --> 0:21:00.940 values also come in and have an interplay with your strengths. 0:21:01.260 --> 0:21:03.660 Because your strengths are innate. They're things you're good at. 0:21:03.660 --> 0:21:07.780 Their skill based values are more around how you feel 0:21:08.260 --> 0:21:11.580 and how aligned what you're doing is with what you 0:21:11.619 --> 0:21:16.100 care deeply about. Uh, and so, yeah, you need to 0:21:16.140 --> 0:21:21.100 really use both of those things because joy will be 0:21:21.100 --> 0:21:25.340 inextricably linked to both like but but also I think 0:21:25.340 --> 0:21:30.379 values aligned work absolutely is where joy is to be found. 0:21:31.100 --> 0:21:32.140 How do we navigate that? 0:21:32.180 --> 0:21:32.780 Yeah. 0:21:34.700 --> 0:21:38.859 We don't have long enough to know. Um, there's a 0:21:38.859 --> 0:21:42.310 whole process I've got for going through values which I 0:21:42.310 --> 0:21:46.189 think you're familiar with. Um, yeah. So I think and 0:21:46.190 --> 0:21:50.590 a lot of them do require time and energy. And 0:21:50.590 --> 0:21:52.590 this is a great time of year to be doing 0:21:52.590 --> 0:21:57.430 this work. Um, it's a time to use breaks and 0:21:57.430 --> 0:22:01.750 holidays and sort of a bit of a slower time. Certainly, 0:22:01.790 --> 0:22:04.630 you know, in this part of the world to really reflect, 0:22:04.630 --> 0:22:08.030 but a lot of it is going back and identifying 0:22:08.710 --> 0:22:11.669 when you were younger and, you know, what did you 0:22:11.670 --> 0:22:14.070 really enjoy and what was important to you, but also 0:22:14.070 --> 0:22:17.949 through your life, when have you felt really good about 0:22:17.950 --> 0:22:22.550 something you've done or achieved and why? And what was 0:22:22.550 --> 0:22:24.909 it about that thing? And it doesn't have to be 0:22:24.910 --> 0:22:28.670 related to work or winning an award or anything like that. 0:22:28.670 --> 0:22:33.630 But what do you remember rushing home from school and 0:22:33.750 --> 0:22:37.950 telling your family about? And you know what's made you proud? Like, 0:22:37.950 --> 0:22:40.750 what makes you feel proud, you know, in connecting with 0:22:40.750 --> 0:22:45.590 all of those emotions. Um, and then I usually supply 0:22:45.590 --> 0:22:48.590 people with a big long list as well, so they 0:22:48.590 --> 0:22:57.510 can actually map out and just start circling, you know, um, trust, integrity, passion, love, joy, 0:22:57.550 --> 0:23:00.990 you know, and, and most people have big scribbles all 0:23:00.990 --> 0:23:04.629 over the page and there's lots, there's too many. Um, 0:23:04.630 --> 0:23:06.430 and then it's a matter of narrowing them down. And 0:23:06.430 --> 0:23:10.230 what you'll find through that process is that actually a 0:23:10.230 --> 0:23:14.110 lot of them, um, clump together, they group together. And 0:23:14.109 --> 0:23:18.150 so you start to get a thematic, um, and between 0:23:18.150 --> 0:23:23.230 some of those memories of, you know, feeling really good 0:23:23.230 --> 0:23:29.190 in yourself, um, and feeling really proud and digging into why, uh, 0:23:29.190 --> 0:23:31.990 also identifying, you know, words that really jump off a 0:23:31.990 --> 0:23:36.430 page to you as key drivers. Um, and your why, 0:23:36.470 --> 0:23:39.000 that's sort of I describe values as that's your why? 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:42.160 That's your reason. You know of what lights you up. 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:45.560 So yeah. And then it's narrowing them down to I 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:50.040 like to try and get to between, well four and five, 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:53.080 four and five sort of key values because otherwise I 0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:58.520 think and they just then can act as such an anchor. Um, 0:23:58.560 --> 0:24:00.640 you know, if one of my key values, for instance, 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:06.240 is family, um, then do I want to say yes 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:08.360 to that job which is going to cause me to 0:24:08.400 --> 0:24:11.280 travel and be away from the family two out of 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:14.680 four weeks a month? You know, it really does help 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:19.960 with decision making. Uh, and it does help sometimes, certainly 0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:24.919 for me to also realise why I'm not feeling great 0:24:24.920 --> 0:24:26.879 in a certain work environment. 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:30.280 Yeah. I'm not. I'm nodding really strong because I think 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:33.080 going through the values exercise with you earlier in the 0:24:33.080 --> 0:24:36.080 year certainly made me so much more aware of that 0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:38.010 sort of stuff, and it and it has made making 0:24:38.010 --> 0:24:42.210 decisions easier in a sense, because it's like I'm just 0:24:42.210 --> 0:24:44.530 trying to lean more into to me and like what 0:24:44.530 --> 0:24:46.290 I think is true to me. And when working through 0:24:46.290 --> 0:24:48.649 my values is one way of doing that. Um, but 0:24:48.650 --> 0:24:52.010 I think, like even with someone when we're thinking of, 0:24:52.010 --> 0:24:54.210 I think what you said before about your work doesn't 0:24:54.210 --> 0:24:57.250 necessarily have to be the thing that brings you all 0:24:57.250 --> 0:24:59.450 the joy in every parts of your job, just like 0:24:59.450 --> 0:25:03.410 it doesn't have to meet every value that you have. Um, 0:25:03.410 --> 0:25:05.530 what would you say? Like is the red flag, though, 0:25:05.570 --> 0:25:07.850 if none of your values are aligned with the work 0:25:07.850 --> 0:25:08.450 that you do? 0:25:08.890 --> 0:25:09.570 I think so. 0:25:09.730 --> 0:25:10.210 Yeah. 0:25:10.250 --> 0:25:14.090 I, I think, yeah, I mean, my, one of my 0:25:14.090 --> 0:25:18.930 values is courage, for instance. And so I spent some 0:25:18.930 --> 0:25:23.010 time at a big four bank when I sold a 0:25:23.010 --> 0:25:27.370 company there, and I wasn't able to exert as much 0:25:27.369 --> 0:25:31.970 courage and bring things into the world quick and fast. 0:25:31.970 --> 0:25:35.129 And and I totally respect that. And that was a 0:25:35.130 --> 0:25:39.690 brilliant environment to create other things, but for me, that's 0:25:40.090 --> 0:25:43.730 probably one of my most important values. And so it's 0:25:43.730 --> 0:25:48.810 also why it's important to have a small list and 0:25:48.810 --> 0:25:52.730 and know the ones that are really deal breakers. I guess, again, 0:25:52.730 --> 0:25:56.050 like a relationship. Like, what are your deal breakers? Uh, 0:25:56.050 --> 0:25:59.050 and I think that's really good to identify because then 0:25:59.170 --> 0:26:03.090 you'll also, uh, have more courage, I guess, to make 0:26:03.530 --> 0:26:05.930 hard decisions because sometimes it is really hard if it's 0:26:05.930 --> 0:26:09.330 a great job and it pays really well, but it 0:26:09.330 --> 0:26:13.810 actually doesn't tick any thing on your values list, even 0:26:13.850 --> 0:26:16.650 it might tick all your strengths or some of your strengths, 0:26:16.650 --> 0:26:20.050 but none of your values. Then it might be why 0:26:20.050 --> 0:26:22.650 you're not enjoying it as much as you potentially could 0:26:22.650 --> 0:26:27.250 if you went to another workplace that was really values aligned. 0:26:30.090 --> 0:26:31.010 One. Two three. 0:26:31.730 --> 0:26:35.210 What about patience? I think that's also something that kind 0:26:35.340 --> 0:26:37.540 of can can come into this because a lot of 0:26:37.540 --> 0:26:39.900 people I know, maybe it is because when you have 0:26:39.900 --> 0:26:42.220 a goal for a role that you want to work towards, 0:26:42.220 --> 0:26:44.619 or maybe as an example, you used to work in PR, 0:26:44.660 --> 0:26:47.260 that was your first business that you had. And when 0:26:47.260 --> 0:26:49.939 you come into a PR agency, it's very unlikely you 0:26:49.940 --> 0:26:53.340 will be emailing, you know, the Herald Sun, the age 0:26:53.340 --> 0:26:55.540 that the press contacts the day you walk in, because 0:26:55.540 --> 0:26:58.220 that's something I would say. You probably learn. You learn 0:26:58.220 --> 0:27:00.700 over time, right? There's other jobs that you do first. 0:27:01.780 --> 0:27:05.219 How important is patience? Because I think it can be. 0:27:05.220 --> 0:27:07.500 And I totally understand why. Why for a lot of people, 0:27:07.500 --> 0:27:09.740 especially if they're really driven, they want to just keep 0:27:09.740 --> 0:27:11.659 going and going and going and building because they've got 0:27:11.660 --> 0:27:13.700 this goal of where they want to get to. And 0:27:13.700 --> 0:27:17.740 sometimes it does take like if PR is your passion, 0:27:17.740 --> 0:27:19.540 it does take for you to get to that more 0:27:19.540 --> 0:27:21.940 senior role, to be able to have a role that's 100% 0:27:21.980 --> 0:27:25.100 PR or whatever that might be. So that could could 0:27:25.100 --> 0:27:27.380 be quite jarring for people if they're kind of thinking about, well, 0:27:27.380 --> 0:27:29.580 I'm doing all this other work that doesn't feel good, 0:27:29.740 --> 0:27:32.139 even though I'm on the path to, you know, what 0:27:32.140 --> 0:27:36.990 I want to do. How important is patience and how 0:27:37.030 --> 0:27:39.870 how do you kind of recommend people? And maybe it's 0:27:39.869 --> 0:27:42.470 maybe more common for entry level jobs, but also it's 0:27:42.470 --> 0:27:44.830 for people that might change career paths or whatever it 0:27:44.830 --> 0:27:48.830 might be. How important is patience and how how should 0:27:48.830 --> 0:27:51.310 we be thinking about it? Because we live in a 0:27:51.310 --> 0:27:53.590 world like we think of Uber Eats. Like we can 0:27:53.590 --> 0:27:58.950 get everything straight away this instant, like Instagram, instant validation. 0:27:58.950 --> 0:28:02.990 And at work. That's not always, um, or really very 0:28:02.990 --> 0:28:03.870 rarely the case. 0:28:05.270 --> 0:28:08.470 Yeah, I think so. My mum, when I was going 0:28:08.470 --> 0:28:13.149 through school, my mum worked at a university library, and 0:28:13.830 --> 0:28:17.870 the one observation she made throughout her career there, which 0:28:17.869 --> 0:28:24.310 was quite lengthy, was the change in the students willingness 0:28:24.310 --> 0:28:30.150 to wait for a book. Interesting. And she literally saw 0:28:30.150 --> 0:28:33.869 that happen before her own eyes, going from cohorts of 0:28:33.869 --> 0:28:38.030 students that were happy to wait days, weeks for a 0:28:38.030 --> 0:28:42.830 textbook and a book to ones that absolutely. Why isn't 0:28:42.830 --> 0:28:47.270 it available now? And if not now, tomorrow. And yeah, 0:28:47.270 --> 0:28:52.070 so it's I think it's so real, the fact that 0:28:52.070 --> 0:28:55.070 we are we just technology and we're so used to 0:28:55.110 --> 0:28:58.990 getting every single thing we want now that we're almost 0:28:58.990 --> 0:29:03.430 once we get things, we're not even as excited. And 0:29:03.430 --> 0:29:07.510 I think that's one thing that is so important is, 0:29:07.510 --> 0:29:12.270 is the process and the journey and working out actually 0:29:12.310 --> 0:29:16.270 how we can not only value it and and learn patience, 0:29:16.270 --> 0:29:19.550 which I do think is I love ambition like I, 0:29:19.550 --> 0:29:23.790 and I really relate to impatient people. I think it's great. 0:29:23.790 --> 0:29:28.630 It's that hunger, it's that hustle. But similarly, if we 0:29:28.630 --> 0:29:32.360 don't enjoy the process and also respect some of Some 0:29:32.360 --> 0:29:35.920 of the learnings and things that patients will grant us. 0:29:36.440 --> 0:29:40.040 We won't be as good at what we do anyway. Um, 0:29:40.040 --> 0:29:42.760 and that's not to say, you know, because there's also that, 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:45.720 you know, you have to work your way up. Not necessarily. Like, 0:29:45.720 --> 0:29:51.560 I think there's absolutely opportunity for people to jump the 0:29:51.560 --> 0:29:54.800 queue if they have talent and they work really hard. 0:29:54.800 --> 0:30:00.440 And but part of that is also by doing the work, 0:30:01.160 --> 0:30:04.840 you're not going to get there without that. Um, and, 0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:08.120 and doing the work is learning. And learning is what 0:30:08.120 --> 0:30:11.960 makes us really, really good at what we do. Um, 0:30:11.960 --> 0:30:15.360 and you've seen it. Everyone's seen that play out. The 0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:18.480 difference when you're sitting around a table or interacting with 0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:22.280 people at work, people that really know their stuff and 0:30:22.280 --> 0:30:27.080 that have been patient and have really taken in every 0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:32.130 opportunity and throughout their process of progression Depression and those 0:30:32.130 --> 0:30:35.930 that you know that haven't. And it's you know, there's 0:30:35.970 --> 0:30:38.890 a far more think about the long game is what 0:30:38.890 --> 0:30:41.930 I would say, um, is sort of, you know, to 0:30:41.970 --> 0:30:44.410 relate it, I guess, to a marathon, you know, the 0:30:44.410 --> 0:30:50.330 people that put in the boring, probably more grueling parts 0:30:50.330 --> 0:30:53.090 of the training, which is just, you know, rather you 0:30:53.090 --> 0:30:56.450 just of course, everyone wants to get to the day. Yeah, 0:30:56.450 --> 0:30:59.130 but what are you like? And do you even cross 0:30:59.130 --> 0:31:04.090 the finish line if that's how you tackle a marathon 0:31:04.210 --> 0:31:07.570 and it's, you know, it's the same philosophy. 0:31:08.090 --> 0:31:12.010 It's. Yeah, that's such good advice. Now people might be 0:31:12.010 --> 0:31:14.410 sitting and thinking about how they feel in their jobs 0:31:14.410 --> 0:31:16.930 and maybe they're like, oh, I don't feel so good. 0:31:17.010 --> 0:31:20.050 But I think with the current kind of cost of 0:31:20.050 --> 0:31:22.450 living crisis we're in and the job market, and then 0:31:22.450 --> 0:31:26.330 also like for people that have, you know, kids, mortgage, etc., 0:31:26.370 --> 0:31:30.490 it can be quite scary to think about changing Careers 0:31:31.010 --> 0:31:34.530 or not careers or even just roles. How do you 0:31:34.530 --> 0:31:37.010 recommend people kind of navigate that? 0:31:37.050 --> 0:31:41.330 Um, so there's a couple of things. One is I 0:31:41.330 --> 0:31:46.410 would love people to think about the philosophy of ikigai, 0:31:46.970 --> 0:31:50.250 which is I love my Japanese philosophies, as we know, 0:31:51.010 --> 0:31:56.650 but ikigai is all about purpose. And it's a way 0:31:56.650 --> 0:32:01.330 to actually map your purpose. Um, and to do that, 0:32:01.530 --> 0:32:05.489 you do a list of what you're good at. You 0:32:05.490 --> 0:32:07.570 do a list of what you can get paid for. 0:32:08.730 --> 0:32:10.890 You do a list of what you love to do, 0:32:11.490 --> 0:32:13.209 and then you do a list of what the world 0:32:13.210 --> 0:32:17.170 needs because it's all around purpose. Now there should be 0:32:17.170 --> 0:32:20.410 a few dot points, at least in each. And I 0:32:20.410 --> 0:32:23.209 think what people expect is that all of those things, 0:32:23.250 --> 0:32:25.209 you know, you should put them in a Venn diagram 0:32:25.210 --> 0:32:27.810 and then all of those things just cross over and 0:32:27.810 --> 0:32:31.940 you have your dream job. Amazing job. Life doesn't work 0:32:31.940 --> 0:32:35.100 like that. Just like we said around partners, you know? Now, 0:32:36.060 --> 0:32:39.460 if I use my career as an example, I have 0:32:39.740 --> 0:32:44.620 had smiling mind. Perfect example. I'm passionate about it. I 0:32:44.660 --> 0:32:47.940 love the work that we do. I can use things 0:32:47.940 --> 0:32:53.460 I'm good at. Never paid me a cent. Now, that 0:32:53.460 --> 0:32:57.180 doesn't mean that every everything I've done in my career 0:32:57.180 --> 0:33:01.060 isn't really valid, including that. It just means that I 0:33:01.060 --> 0:33:05.260 can't necessarily get everything out of the one thing. So 0:33:05.260 --> 0:33:06.780 if you're in a job and you're not in a 0:33:06.780 --> 0:33:12.380 position to move, there are other parts of your ikigai 0:33:12.420 --> 0:33:19.060 that you can embrace. Take charge of and enjoy. You know, 0:33:19.100 --> 0:33:22.459 while you work out either what else you want to 0:33:22.460 --> 0:33:25.380 do or while you work through what's going on for 0:33:25.380 --> 0:33:28.750 you in your personal life and in your financial life. 0:33:29.310 --> 0:33:33.110 So that's that's one thing. The other thing I would say, 0:33:33.390 --> 0:33:37.150 and this is more of a prod, which I love 0:33:37.190 --> 0:33:40.470 giving people, um, just to put a little question mark 0:33:40.470 --> 0:33:46.870 in their mind is what part of I can't because um, or. Yes, 0:33:46.870 --> 0:33:51.870 but is to do with construct and constructs that you 0:33:51.870 --> 0:33:56.590 have created for yourself and potentially your family. But I 0:33:56.590 --> 0:34:00.350 think then be real with yourself. So that's the one 0:34:00.350 --> 0:34:03.310 thing I would say. We there's a lot of stories 0:34:03.310 --> 0:34:06.070 that we tell ourselves, and there's a lot of ways 0:34:06.070 --> 0:34:10.910 that we justify not necessarily being as happy or engaged 0:34:10.910 --> 0:34:13.750 as we could be. And a lot of it is 0:34:13.750 --> 0:34:18.230 built on a construct that we've actually created for ourselves. Um, 0:34:18.230 --> 0:34:20.790 so it's just really that's the little prod New Year's 0:34:20.790 --> 0:34:24.790 prod that I give. Um, so ikigai gives us an 0:34:24.790 --> 0:34:31.109 opportunity to have breadth And engagement in other areas. If 0:34:31.230 --> 0:34:33.670 we want to, and really discover how to bring that 0:34:33.670 --> 0:34:35.950 into our lives, if it's not already, particularly what the 0:34:35.950 --> 0:34:38.629 world needs. There's so much to do out there that 0:34:38.630 --> 0:34:41.790 you don't get paid for, that you can use your strengths, 0:34:41.830 --> 0:34:44.950 you know, um, if you want to. That can really 0:34:44.950 --> 0:34:49.990 light you up. So it's not all about, um, money 0:34:49.989 --> 0:34:54.029 and climbing the ladder. Um, and also the last thing 0:34:54.030 --> 0:34:57.750 I would say is I think it's also potentially not 0:34:57.750 --> 0:35:01.790 focusing too much on what things look good. 0:35:02.390 --> 0:35:05.670 Um, like, externally, what other people might think on LinkedIn. 0:35:05.710 --> 0:35:08.910 Yeah. I'd be great for my profile. I've done it. 0:35:09.070 --> 0:35:11.509 I've done it. And they're always the things I've disliked 0:35:11.670 --> 0:35:14.750 the most. Yeah. By far. So a lot of people 0:35:14.750 --> 0:35:17.470 look at my LinkedIn and they're like, whoa, this is 0:35:17.469 --> 0:35:19.509 I just I just own it. I'm like, it's the 0:35:19.550 --> 0:35:23.270 yellow brick road. Bless. Bless you. Thank you. Double bless. 0:35:23.310 --> 0:35:25.350 Thank you. So dainty. 0:35:25.390 --> 0:35:27.200 I know it was a tiny little squeak. 0:35:28.560 --> 0:35:32.160 I, um, and. Yeah, but I just own it. And 0:35:32.160 --> 0:35:34.160 I said, yeah, now I call it my yellow brick 0:35:34.160 --> 0:35:37.759 road of a career. Because I have followed my curiosity, 0:35:37.760 --> 0:35:41.319 I have followed my passion, and I've worried less about 0:35:41.320 --> 0:35:43.520 the fact that I might not have been at a 0:35:43.520 --> 0:35:46.640 place for as long or, yeah, that I haven't stayed 0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:51.560 in a particular industry or I've. Yeah, I've not let 0:35:51.560 --> 0:35:55.440 that rule. Yeah. And when people look at my LinkedIn 0:35:55.440 --> 0:35:57.799 they'll know what I mean. But I think you also. 0:35:57.800 --> 0:36:00.000 Have the conviction in in why. Right. Because I think 0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:02.920 if I'm thinking if I'm interviewing someone and they've changed 0:36:02.920 --> 0:36:06.040 jobs like ten times in two years and I say why? 0:36:06.160 --> 0:36:08.120 And they're like, they don't have a like there's no 0:36:08.120 --> 0:36:10.080 conviction in it. That's when I'd be like, okay, well, 0:36:10.080 --> 0:36:12.680 I don't know if you'll be the right person, but 0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:15.520 I think that's I think there's an assumption that if 0:36:15.520 --> 0:36:17.720 you have, you know, changed career paths like you have, 0:36:17.719 --> 0:36:21.120 that it's always bad when it's not at all like 0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:25.239 there's so much more context that that matters around it. 0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:32.410 I also think, uh, people underestimate how much the truth works. Yes. So, 0:36:33.610 --> 0:36:38.810 like like I if someone said in an interview because 0:36:38.810 --> 0:36:40.770 a lot of people also say to me, I can't leave. 0:36:40.770 --> 0:36:43.370 I haven't even been there a year. Yeah, right. Yes. 0:36:43.410 --> 0:36:47.210 And again, like, well, you can you're choosing to stay 0:36:47.210 --> 0:36:50.130 because you want to stay longer than a year. Completely fine. 0:36:50.410 --> 0:36:53.330 But again that's a construct that says yeah, that looks 0:36:53.330 --> 0:36:56.930 better if I have, rather than sitting in front of 0:36:56.930 --> 0:36:59.810 a potential new employer and saying, do you know what 0:36:59.810 --> 0:37:02.330 I actually, rather than being somewhere that I just knew 0:37:02.370 --> 0:37:04.930 wasn't a values fit for me, I decided to get 0:37:04.930 --> 0:37:08.210 really proactive and make the change straight away, because I 0:37:08.290 --> 0:37:11.890 want to be in a workplace where I'm really contributing 0:37:11.890 --> 0:37:17.089 and really engaged. That's powerful. Potential manager is going to 0:37:17.090 --> 0:37:18.410 be unimpressed by that. 0:37:19.290 --> 0:37:21.530 One note there with the truth, because I felt this 0:37:21.530 --> 0:37:23.370 this has happened quite a few times when we've interviewed 0:37:23.370 --> 0:37:26.009 people is The truth is not good if you're going 0:37:26.050 --> 0:37:29.090 to trash an ex-employee. I feel like if you're going to. 0:37:29.130 --> 0:37:31.650 But it's talking about what you just said. But I've 0:37:31.650 --> 0:37:33.250 had I feel like just just a note. I feel 0:37:33.250 --> 0:37:36.170 like when that happens, I sit there like, I'll be next, 0:37:36.210 --> 0:37:38.610 you know, like you just I feel like it's not about. 0:37:38.610 --> 0:37:40.850 And then, you know, that's that's making it personal. But 0:37:40.850 --> 0:37:42.850 it's not personal. It's about what you just did, like 0:37:43.170 --> 0:37:46.010 it was about you and how you felt in that organization. 0:37:46.050 --> 0:37:48.170 That's right. You want values, land, work. And so I 0:37:48.170 --> 0:37:49.450 just want to call that out because I feel like 0:37:49.450 --> 0:37:51.570 when people do that, sometimes they want to email them afterwards. 0:37:51.570 --> 0:37:54.130 I have before actually and said, like, hey, this is 0:37:54.130 --> 0:37:56.250 maybe not the best thing to do in an interview. 0:37:56.250 --> 0:37:58.850 Definitely. Well, maybe they need to read The Four Agreements 0:37:58.850 --> 0:38:00.810 because then they'd be impeccable with their word. 0:38:00.850 --> 0:38:01.730 Exactly. 0:38:01.969 --> 0:38:04.489 Hopefully they have, because it was in our special shares episode. 0:38:04.489 --> 0:38:06.530 So exactly for the holidays. If not. 0:38:07.730 --> 0:38:10.930 Get it. Exactly. And I think the other thing, just 0:38:10.930 --> 0:38:13.089 to be really clear and I'd love to circle back 0:38:13.130 --> 0:38:15.090 on and you touched on it before is just around 0:38:15.090 --> 0:38:17.529 not putting. And I mean, it's very much in the 0:38:18.170 --> 0:38:20.850 what I think what you were talking about before, not 0:38:20.850 --> 0:38:23.090 putting it. I think Covid did this a little bit 0:38:23.090 --> 0:38:25.739 when we started working from home, and there wasn't as 0:38:25.739 --> 0:38:28.860 much of a divide between work and life. And yeah, 0:38:28.900 --> 0:38:32.259 the work started then, like during Covid, covering expenses for 0:38:32.260 --> 0:38:34.620 like at home stuff, because like, if you're working, like 0:38:34.620 --> 0:38:38.219 your desk or whatever. Yep. I think what that also 0:38:38.260 --> 0:38:41.100 meant was there became a bit more of a blurred 0:38:41.100 --> 0:38:44.700 line on the expectation on the workplace. And I think 0:38:44.700 --> 0:38:48.100 people expect more than ever from their work to and 0:38:48.100 --> 0:38:50.299 for their job to, like, solve everything in their life. 0:38:50.300 --> 0:38:52.219 You know, if they have bad mental health, it's like, oh, 0:38:52.219 --> 0:38:54.140 it's because they don't. It's because of my job or 0:38:54.180 --> 0:38:56.140 whatever it means. I think it's happening a little bit 0:38:56.140 --> 0:38:58.460 more than than before. And obviously, what the danger is, 0:38:58.460 --> 0:39:01.140 and it's like anything, if you put every expectation on 0:39:01.140 --> 0:39:03.939 any area in your life, if one thing goes wrong 0:39:03.940 --> 0:39:06.299 in that, like you will just be crushed. Like if 0:39:06.300 --> 0:39:09.219 your whole life is your relationship, like, that's super, super, 0:39:09.219 --> 0:39:11.620 super dangerous if your whole life is your career, etc.. 0:39:11.660 --> 0:39:13.180 Do you mind talking to that a little bit more? 0:39:13.180 --> 0:39:15.859 Because I just think it's really important because sometimes people think, oh, 0:39:15.900 --> 0:39:18.580 I'll change your job and my whole everything will be solved, 0:39:18.580 --> 0:39:20.460 but it's not always the case, right? 0:39:21.500 --> 0:39:23.950 Yeah. Well, exactly. And that's why I think I said 0:39:23.989 --> 0:39:28.270 at the top of the episode is the most, I think, 0:39:28.310 --> 0:39:31.750 important question to ask, if not the first one, is, 0:39:32.830 --> 0:39:37.989 is this about work or is this about me? Yeah. 0:39:38.030 --> 0:39:42.030 And I actually love that question just outside of work. I, 0:39:42.070 --> 0:39:45.150 I've really learned and I often challenge and talk to 0:39:45.190 --> 0:39:50.109 people about resistance. So resistance is a gift if you 0:39:50.110 --> 0:39:52.910 choose to use it that way. So things you're like, oh, 0:39:52.910 --> 0:39:57.150 I can't stand that person or oh, I didn't like that. 0:39:57.150 --> 0:40:00.350 There will be something in there that is part of 0:40:00.350 --> 0:40:04.750 you that you don't like. Yeah. Or if it's a 0:40:04.750 --> 0:40:06.830 book that someone says, oh, you really should read this 0:40:06.830 --> 0:40:08.830 and you start reading, it's like, oh, this is crap. 0:40:10.710 --> 0:40:14.110 It will usually be because it's hit some kind of nerve. 0:40:14.550 --> 0:40:16.870 And that's exactly the same if if you're in a 0:40:16.870 --> 0:40:20.910 workplace and certain things are coming up for you there 0:40:20.910 --> 0:40:24.830 to be explored and not just explored. To blame the 0:40:24.830 --> 0:40:28.589 external circumstances, although that that may be valid and that 0:40:28.590 --> 0:40:33.550 that's okay, but also an opportunity to turn inward and say, 0:40:33.550 --> 0:40:38.190 how am I showing up? Yeah. How am I contributing 0:40:38.230 --> 0:40:43.669 to this feeling? And I think in life, not just 0:40:43.670 --> 0:40:46.910 in work, if you can do that and own your part, 0:40:47.630 --> 0:40:54.110 then life will be better. And then when everything isn't perfect, 0:40:54.110 --> 0:40:59.910 which it never is, and when you're only enjoying, you know, 0:40:59.910 --> 0:41:03.950 a smaller proportion of your work and you do need 0:41:03.950 --> 0:41:07.509 to continue there, then it is easier if you are 0:41:07.510 --> 0:41:11.190 still showing up and doing the work on yourself to 0:41:11.230 --> 0:41:17.390 make that optimal. I honestly believe that also you're just 0:41:17.390 --> 0:41:20.589 way more fun to be around. It's a pleasure to 0:41:20.590 --> 0:41:23.839 be around people who own their part and you know 0:41:23.880 --> 0:41:28.240 that take responsibility for themselves and the role that they're playing. Um, 0:41:28.280 --> 0:41:32.000 it's it's very refreshing. And it, it shows other people 0:41:32.000 --> 0:41:35.000 how to be as well. So yeah, I think it's 0:41:35.040 --> 0:41:37.920 that's a really great challenge to sort of take into 0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:42.040 a workplace. The other really good tip that I actually 0:41:42.200 --> 0:41:45.759 I'm going to credit her, but Debbie Lee, um, who 0:41:45.760 --> 0:41:50.480 is the careers counsellor where Henry goes to school, made 0:41:50.480 --> 0:41:55.200 a really good point talking about the 8020 rule. It 0:41:55.200 --> 0:41:58.040 was really around decision making and obviously, you know, year 0:41:58.040 --> 0:42:01.839 12 making a decision. But I loved it more generally, 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:07.200 which was you're never really going to be 100% on 0:42:07.200 --> 0:42:10.640 any decision you make or anything that you do like 0:42:10.640 --> 0:42:17.280 that is just unrealistic. But if you're 80%, it's bloody good. Yeah. 0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:21.370 And then see how the how the percentage changes over time. 0:42:22.010 --> 0:42:25.450 And I really I just love that. Yeah. The wisdom 0:42:25.450 --> 0:42:26.450 of Debbie Lee. 0:42:26.489 --> 0:42:27.969 I love that a lot of a lot of my 0:42:27.969 --> 0:42:31.170 girlfriends use that for relationships as well. And I think 0:42:31.210 --> 0:42:33.730 you never like, when has anyone been 100% sure to 0:42:33.730 --> 0:42:35.530 break up with someone? I mean, unless they did something 0:42:35.530 --> 0:42:39.689 like very, very, very bad, of course. But if there's no, like, 0:42:39.690 --> 0:42:43.529 wrongdoing and it's just not feeling right. That's right. The 0:42:43.530 --> 0:42:45.450 amount of doubt you have in yourself, like, oh, what 0:42:45.450 --> 0:42:47.290 if I you know, what if it's the only person 0:42:47.290 --> 0:42:50.450 I'm going to get? And that's a scarcity mindset of 0:42:50.450 --> 0:42:52.049 what if it's just a stage and a phase and 0:42:52.050 --> 0:42:54.250 blah blah, blah, etc. but I feel like that actually 0:42:54.250 --> 0:42:56.609 applies so well to like a lot of decisions we 0:42:56.610 --> 0:42:58.930 make in our lives outside of career too. 0:42:58.969 --> 0:43:03.090 Yeah, I think even when something drastic does happen, like terrible, terrible, 0:43:03.090 --> 0:43:05.290 something that really happened, you could still be 99% because 0:43:05.290 --> 0:43:07.049 that 1% is holding on to all the positive times 0:43:07.050 --> 0:43:08.969 you had with this person, and that maybe they'll learn 0:43:08.969 --> 0:43:11.290 from their mistake and you can flip it. And I 0:43:11.290 --> 0:43:13.050 think it's even the same in like making a big, 0:43:13.050 --> 0:43:15.810 big decision like having a kid or whatever. When I've 0:43:15.810 --> 0:43:20.050 said before, I 100% knew I was ready. I was 0:43:20.330 --> 0:43:22.330 definitely in the 90s. Like, I knew it was something 0:43:22.330 --> 0:43:25.490 that I like, definitely wanted, felt right at the time, etc. 0:43:25.489 --> 0:43:27.489 but there wasn't. Of course, there was other considerations that 0:43:27.489 --> 0:43:30.370 were going on in my mind, but it's so good 0:43:30.370 --> 0:43:33.050 and it's what you've spoken to a lot laws this year, 0:43:33.050 --> 0:43:35.890 and leaning into is like the decision you make is 0:43:35.890 --> 0:43:39.050 going to be the right one. And like not trying 0:43:39.050 --> 0:43:42.810 to pre-empt what that hindsight will be because hindsight only 0:43:42.810 --> 0:43:46.290 happens after the fact. Um, and just really leaning into 0:43:46.290 --> 0:43:48.890 that decision and being okay with the learnings that come 0:43:48.890 --> 0:43:51.650 from it, whether it's like you look back in hindsight 0:43:51.650 --> 0:43:54.370 and think, yeah, I'm so glad I did that, or okay, 0:43:54.370 --> 0:43:56.210 I'm glad I did that, but now I'm in another pickle. 0:43:57.090 --> 0:44:01.410 Yes. And just trusting that there's purpose in it as well. 0:44:01.489 --> 0:44:07.010 There's purpose in every decision and even the so-called wrong ones. 0:44:07.010 --> 0:44:10.330 There's sort of there isn't any such thing because that 0:44:10.330 --> 0:44:14.290 will place you somewhere else, which will lead to something else, 0:44:14.330 --> 0:44:17.529 like your yellow brick road. And that's exactly, exactly. And 0:44:17.530 --> 0:44:21.779 I think it makes it a much more refreshing way 0:44:21.780 --> 0:44:26.100 to live as well. Like, there are no wrong decisions. 0:44:26.100 --> 0:44:29.020 There are decisions that you may think, oh, that wasn't ideal. 0:44:29.460 --> 0:44:33.299 What is the next best decision? So I can take 0:44:33.300 --> 0:44:36.620 a different direction? Um, and it's really, you know, I 0:44:36.620 --> 0:44:38.700 think it's. Yeah, it's a great way to live. 0:44:38.940 --> 0:44:41.060 And trusting yourself. Right. Instead of and this is something 0:44:41.060 --> 0:44:42.899 we've worked on with me in that if I'm like, 0:44:42.900 --> 0:44:44.739 if I make I used, I used to think if 0:44:44.739 --> 0:44:46.660 I made a wrong decision that it would be like 0:44:46.700 --> 0:44:49.380 the end of the world, like literally that would Stuart 0:44:49.380 --> 0:44:50.940 Little no, not Stuart Little I got it wrong. Yeah 0:44:50.940 --> 0:44:53.540 Stuart little chicken little chicken little not Stuart Little he's the. 0:44:54.020 --> 0:44:54.620 He's the mouse. 0:44:54.700 --> 0:44:58.660 They're both cute. Chicken little that it's like it would 0:44:58.660 --> 0:45:00.740 be a disaster and everything will be over. But that's 0:45:00.780 --> 0:45:03.100 like there's not many decisions we can make in our 0:45:03.100 --> 0:45:05.899 lives like especially within career where we can never go 0:45:05.900 --> 0:45:08.420 back or it's going to be the end of the world. 0:45:08.420 --> 0:45:10.940 And there was an episode, actually on The diary of 0:45:10.940 --> 0:45:13.540 a CEO, and I remember we spoke about it and 0:45:13.580 --> 0:45:15.740 Steven Bartlett. Actually, no, it was on Mel Robbins podcast, 0:45:15.739 --> 0:45:17.630 and Steven was talking and he was he was talking 0:45:17.630 --> 0:45:20.310 about he used an example of someone in banking, and 0:45:20.310 --> 0:45:22.230 they've been in banking for like their whole career, 20 0:45:22.230 --> 0:45:25.750 or 30 years. And they weren't happy, but they wanted to. 0:45:25.790 --> 0:45:28.230 They were thinking about, oh, if I leave, like, well, 0:45:28.270 --> 0:45:30.190 what if I can't get another job in a totally 0:45:30.190 --> 0:45:32.310 different career? What if I do? Like, I don't make 0:45:32.310 --> 0:45:34.910 money from that. What if it's a disaster? And his 0:45:34.950 --> 0:45:37.670 kind of response back to that is like, well, that 0:45:37.670 --> 0:45:40.830 risk seems so small compared to spending another ten years 0:45:40.830 --> 0:45:43.950 in something that brings you no joy. And we so 0:45:43.950 --> 0:45:47.149 often don't think about that, but we just have to trust. 0:45:47.150 --> 0:45:49.310 And I think that's like what the biggest learning that 0:45:49.310 --> 0:45:51.870 I've had in, you know, having the pleasure of working 0:45:51.870 --> 0:45:56.189 with you this year is just trusting that things will 0:45:56.190 --> 0:45:59.069 be okay. And especially if you have a mindset like 0:45:59.070 --> 0:46:00.669 I did where I was like, no, things won't be okay. 0:46:00.670 --> 0:46:03.710 I have to control everything. Otherwise it'll be a disaster. Like, 0:46:04.550 --> 0:46:08.230 I know we have some cloud things that also think like, yes, yes, 0:46:08.230 --> 0:46:11.230 there's many. It's just letting go and and trusting that 0:46:11.270 --> 0:46:14.150 like it's, you know, there is a, you know, a 0:46:14.150 --> 0:46:15.870 zero point. It's like with anxiety there's always that always 0:46:15.870 --> 0:46:19.310 that 0.001% chance the worst thing will happen, but there's 0:46:19.310 --> 0:46:21.870 also 99.9% chance that it won't. 0:46:22.030 --> 0:46:25.790 Exactly. And also sometimes things that happen to you. So 0:46:25.790 --> 0:46:30.270 it's also not, um, like career wise. It's not always 0:46:30.270 --> 0:46:33.469 your decision either. And I think that's important to touch on, 0:46:33.469 --> 0:46:38.989 particularly when the economy, you know, is as it is. Uh, and, 0:46:39.270 --> 0:46:42.430 or you go for I remember the first job, um, 0:46:42.430 --> 0:46:45.230 or one of the second job I went for, it 0:46:45.230 --> 0:46:48.069 was junior fashion editor at the age. Shout out to 0:46:48.110 --> 0:46:50.149 Rachel Wells. We got down to the last two and 0:46:50.150 --> 0:46:52.989 she won. Um, I don't think I've ever been more 0:46:52.989 --> 0:46:57.270 devastated about missing out on a job. Ever. I could 0:46:57.270 --> 0:46:59.230 not stop crying. I mean, I was a lot younger, 0:46:59.230 --> 0:47:04.270 but also, I felt like everything I saw for myself 0:47:04.390 --> 0:47:07.830 was over. Now I look back on that now and 0:47:07.830 --> 0:47:10.069 think that would have taken me in a direction that 0:47:10.070 --> 0:47:15.229 I know would not have played to my all my strengths, 0:47:15.360 --> 0:47:19.080 particularly the the really big ones. Uh, and it wouldn't 0:47:19.080 --> 0:47:21.680 have been right for me at all. But at that 0:47:21.680 --> 0:47:25.520 moment I was devastated. Now that decision was made for me, 0:47:26.080 --> 0:47:28.840 and it took me a while to get over. But 0:47:28.840 --> 0:47:32.120 I can look back also in retrospect and see that 0:47:32.120 --> 0:47:34.839 was actually me being looked after and being taken in 0:47:34.840 --> 0:47:38.759 the direction I needed to go. So that might not 0:47:38.760 --> 0:47:41.720 happen in the moment, but I can guarantee as being 0:47:41.719 --> 0:47:46.000 a lot older than certainly both of you, and I'd 0:47:46.000 --> 0:47:50.120 say nearly all of the listeners that that will happen, 0:47:50.280 --> 0:47:52.360 that will happen all through your life, where a decision 0:47:52.360 --> 0:47:56.480 may have been made for you. And at the time, um, 0:47:56.480 --> 0:48:01.480 certainly in your career it felt devastating. But it will actually, 0:48:01.480 --> 0:48:04.400 in retrospect, have led to something else that I am 0:48:04.400 --> 0:48:07.440 sure will be bigger and better and more aligned. 0:48:07.480 --> 0:48:10.000 Yeah, that is so good. And I, I have to say, 0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:12.080 my mum listens to the podcast and she's definitely older 0:48:12.080 --> 0:48:13.799 than you, so I can already hear her in my 0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:15.930 text messages, being asked quickly if. 0:48:15.930 --> 0:48:18.730 By telling someone my mum's older than you, but she 0:48:18.730 --> 0:48:19.569 said she said. 0:48:19.610 --> 0:48:21.529 I'm sure I'm older than all of my all of 0:48:21.530 --> 0:48:25.969 the listeners. I know that our mothers will both be listening. Um, 0:48:26.010 --> 0:48:28.290 but speaking of age, because I think that's an important 0:48:28.290 --> 0:48:30.210 one to touch on, because it can be the excuse 0:48:30.210 --> 0:48:32.890 that a lot of people jump to before we finish up. 0:48:33.130 --> 0:48:35.210 Is it ever too late to change your career or 0:48:35.210 --> 0:48:35.730 your job? 0:48:35.930 --> 0:48:44.330 Definitely not. Definitely not. Um, firstly, our brain literally is plastic. Like, 0:48:44.330 --> 0:48:47.290 we we have neural pathways like we can if we 0:48:47.290 --> 0:48:53.090 can reshape our brain, we can reshape our careers. Um, so, yeah, 0:48:53.130 --> 0:48:58.250 I think it is all possible. It's just also what? 0:48:59.090 --> 0:49:01.969 I guess there'll be potential pay offs if it's a 0:49:01.969 --> 0:49:06.250 big pivot. Uh, I think, you know, that is a 0:49:06.250 --> 0:49:09.009 decision to make, probably as a, as a family or 0:49:09.010 --> 0:49:11.970 as a, you know, if you're in a relationship, but 0:49:12.170 --> 0:49:17.610 I Absolutely. I mean, I've changed careers completely, doing the coaching, 0:49:18.330 --> 0:49:20.729 you know, and have moved into that work and, and 0:49:20.770 --> 0:49:23.250 sort of away from more of that sort of straight 0:49:23.290 --> 0:49:27.290 sort of business work. And that does feel like a leap. 0:49:27.290 --> 0:49:31.450 I'm doing a hypnotherapy degree. I just I feel that 0:49:31.450 --> 0:49:37.210 we put barriers in front of ourselves that don't need 0:49:37.210 --> 0:49:40.170 to be there. But like I said before, a lot 0:49:40.170 --> 0:49:43.529 of it is stories that we're telling ourselves about why 0:49:43.530 --> 0:49:49.130 we can't do something and there's always something that's underneath that. 0:49:49.650 --> 0:49:53.370 And usually it will be fear. Or it could also 0:49:53.370 --> 0:49:57.410 be about like, what will people think? Like, does that 0:49:57.410 --> 0:50:01.610 seem weird or. Yeah, but what I would say is, 0:50:02.690 --> 0:50:06.130 and I've been cruel enough to one of my clients 0:50:06.130 --> 0:50:11.250 recently to she's a fantastic writer. And so I've made 0:50:11.250 --> 0:50:16.460 her do her eulogy as part of her homework. And. Wow. Yeah. 0:50:18.140 --> 0:50:23.740 But the reason is that I think when you consider 0:50:24.900 --> 0:50:29.980 what you might like yours to say, what would the 0:50:29.980 --> 0:50:31.060 content be? 0:50:31.420 --> 0:50:33.220 Mhm. It's not going to be about your job. 0:50:33.300 --> 0:50:39.859 Exactly. And it might be about someone who's 80 and 0:50:39.860 --> 0:50:46.459 went on an adventure when at 40 she realized she 0:50:46.460 --> 0:50:50.340 was a nurse and she actually wanted to train to 0:50:50.340 --> 0:50:53.540 be a pilot. Who knows. But how cool. I'd like 0:50:53.540 --> 0:50:56.660 to sit at that funeral and hear that story, you know? 0:50:56.700 --> 0:51:01.819 Because that was someone who really thought anything was possible. 0:51:02.340 --> 0:51:07.180 So I think it's also really cool to, you know, 0:51:07.219 --> 0:51:10.820 and that aligns with your values as well. Uh, and 0:51:11.390 --> 0:51:14.430 When I think about my career, it's the thing that 0:51:14.430 --> 0:51:16.750 I've never been paid for that I hope people speak 0:51:16.750 --> 0:51:22.589 about at my funeral, um, which is smiling mind and well, 0:51:22.630 --> 0:51:26.990 obviously also hopefully that I'm a good human, but but, 0:51:27.030 --> 0:51:30.830 you know, career wise, I'm saying what I would want 0:51:30.830 --> 0:51:33.989 to know is it was about that that had had 0:51:33.989 --> 0:51:38.589 impact and helped people. And so all of the other 0:51:38.590 --> 0:51:42.110 things I am proud of and I've had fun doing, 0:51:42.590 --> 0:51:45.430 but to me, yeah. So I think that's also a 0:51:45.430 --> 0:51:47.910 very cool exercise. If you're a bit on the fence 0:51:47.910 --> 0:51:51.069 or you're thinking, oh, but I can't because, you know, 0:51:51.150 --> 0:51:56.069 think about it like just own what you want and 0:51:56.070 --> 0:51:59.270 then write that out and be like, okay, now how 0:51:59.270 --> 0:52:02.109 do I get there? And make sure it's, you know, 0:52:02.150 --> 0:52:04.509 make sure your kids put it in, make sure they 0:52:04.510 --> 0:52:07.070 say it, make sure it happens. 0:52:07.110 --> 0:52:09.950 Um, what a way to finish. Thank you so much 0:52:10.230 --> 0:52:13.190 for joining us. It's been incredible. I've got so many. 0:52:13.350 --> 0:52:14.910 We've spent so much time together, but I've got so 0:52:14.910 --> 0:52:17.270 much more out of today as well. So thank you 0:52:17.270 --> 0:52:17.830 so much. 0:52:18.030 --> 0:52:20.710 Pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thank you. 0:52:21.150 --> 0:52:24.030 Thank you so much for listening. 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