S1: Just a warning that the following episode contains details of
S1: domestic violence, including sexual violence.
S2: A Listener production.
S3: Hello. It's Antoinette Lateef with you. Do you picture when
S3: you think of domestic violence? I'll tell you what quickly
S3: comes to mind for me. It's a woman with black
S3: eyes and she's probably cowering in the corner. And the perpetrator,
S3: as I imagine it is likely to be a middle
S3: aged man. What about you? Maybe it's the couple you
S3: see in public. They might be drunk and his abuse
S3: is loud and aggressive and you get the sense that
S3: this sort of thing happens a lot. This week on
S3: the briefing as part of a special investigation into domestic violence.
S3: We're going to challenge a lot of these stereotypes. At
S3: the moment, all major crime trends are decreasing, which is
S3: good news, except for domestic violence and sexual assault. Over
S3: the next few days, in a briefing special, you'll hear
S3: from women who've never shared their stories, including a victim
S3: survivor whose abuser was her husband and also a police officer.
S4: I can imagine that a lot of members would think
S4: that they could get away with it. It's just the mentality. No.
S4: One report me because I'm in a authoritative environment.
S3: And there's also growing concern about how porn is influencing
S3: domestic violence.
S5: Where it became an issue was when it was crossing
S5: over into the bedroom and made me feel uncomfortable.
S3: And I know this doesn't make for easy listening, but
S3: I promise there'll be solutions and you'll walk away understanding
S3: that we all have a role to play and you'll
S3: be equipped with a few things you can do yourself.
S3: But first, here are today's headlines with Tom and Jan.
S3: It's Monday, the 28th of August.
S6: Good morning, everyone. Three. US Marines have been killed in
S6: an aircraft crash during a joint training exercise on Melville Island.
S6: This is just off the coast of Darwin. So 23
S6: Marines were on board the aircraft when it crashed. It
S6: was during a routine exercise and happened around 9:30 a.m. yesterday. Now,
S6: this is still a developing story. And when asked if
S6: she knew why the aircraft had come down, the NT
S6: Chief Minister Natasha Fyles, said this.
S5: No, we'd be unable to comment on that. Our focus
S5: right now is, is those patients and giving them the
S5: care that they need.
S6: Yeah. So there are at least five patients now in
S6: Darwin Hospital with serious injuries. And sadly, this isn't the
S6: only sort of training crash that's happened recently. Yeah, it's.
S7: So devastating when these troops die in training exercises. So
S7: this one over the weekend was a joint exercise involving
S7: 2000 troops, Australians, Americans, troops from the Philippines, Timor-Leste and Indonesia.
S7: And last month, you might remember that training exercise where
S7: for Australian Army air crew members died in a helicopter
S7: crash off the coast of Hamilton Island. So two crashes
S7: within a month. And in Spain, FIFA has suspended the
S7: Spanish Football Federation Luis Roubles. After that kiss, it's the
S7: kiss where he kissed Jennifer Hermoso without her consent after
S7: Spain's win at the World Cup final last weekend. So
S7: FIFA said that he's been removed from his duties for
S7: 90 days pending the disciplinary proceedings opened against him. They've
S7: also banned him from contacting Hermoso, as well as Royal
S7: Spanish Football Federation and its officials or employees during that
S7: 90 days. This comes after he refused to resign from
S7: his presidency, despite being under intense pressure from the Spanish government,
S7: The female players, the clubs and officials.
S6: This story, I think, has really just captured Spain's imagination.
S6: I've heard it reported as being Spain's MeToo moment. And
S6: there was a cartoon in the paper that said, Grandma,
S6: tell us how you won the World Cup. And the
S6: grandma says to the to the child, oh, we didn't
S6: just win the World Cup. We won so much more.
S7: So they're calling it. Yeah, as you said, Spain's MeToo moment.
S7: So since the final remember, it's just a week ago,
S7: the World Cup champion players said they would not play
S7: for the national team until the federation's leadership was removed.
S7: More than 50 other top female players join them in
S7: that move. Then on Saturday, nearly all of the coaching
S7: and technical staff of Spain's women's team resigned. So did
S7: seven members of the Spanish Football Federation all over this incident.
S7: And then at some of the games over the weekend,
S7: people are turning up with t shirts saying si acabo,
S7: which means it's over. So, so much anger, so much pressure.
S7: And finally, some kind of result.
S6: Yeah. And I think the anger comes from Ruby Ali's
S6: reaction to all of this. He refused to stand down.
S6: He said that the Football Federation was actually going to
S6: sue Hermoso for comments that she made against him. He
S6: also said that he was being attacked by fake feminism.
S6: So really standing his ground in a way that's made
S6: a lot of people in Spain, including the government, obviously,
S6: including a lot of football players, very angry.
S7: And Russian investigators have confirmed that the Wagner boss, Yevgeny Prigozhin,
S7: is dead. That's after last week's plane crash. So they've
S7: released a report that says the genetic test for the
S7: ten people on the passenger list match the remains they
S7: recovered from the crash site, including Prigozhin. There are, of course,
S7: still questions about whether the plane crash was ordered by
S7: the Kremlin after Prigozhin mutinied against Russia's army in June,
S7: leading Wagner troops on a march almost all the way
S7: to Moscow.
S6: Yeah, it's interesting to see what Yevgeny Prigozhin legacy is
S6: going to be. We heard last week Putin give him
S6: a sort of a tepid eulogy, but a eulogy nonetheless.
S6: You know, he said that he had he was a
S6: talented businessman. He had made a significant contribution to the war.
S6: So it'd be interesting to see how that sort of ends.
S6: I guess a lot of that will depend on what
S6: happens in the war in Ukraine and whether Putin really
S6: changes that language and insists on calling him a traitor.
S7: And the Trump campaign has raised 7 million USD since
S7: his police mugshot was taken at a prison in Atlanta, Georgia,
S7: last Thursday. So a lot of the money's coming from
S7: selling merchandise like mugs, t shirts and drink coolers. So
S7: now if I'd want to drink from one of those.
S7: Trump has been released on bail, but he's charged with
S7: plotting to overturn the state's 2020 election results. This is
S7: the fourth indictment he's facing and potentially the fourth trial
S7: he'll face before next year's election.
S5: Yeah, not.
S6: Surprised they slap in that mug shot on some merchandise.
S6: This feels like, you know, the the test that psychiatrists
S6: give kids or people where they make them look at
S6: a picture of just a blob. And they asked them,
S6: what do you see in this picture? It feels like
S6: the Trump mug shot. Is that in a weird way,
S6: if you're a fan of Trump, you look at that
S6: and you see somebody who is defiant, who is a hero,
S6: who is standing up to the liberal establishment. If you're
S6: on the other side, you see it as a sign
S6: of how far Trump has fallen. It's the same picture
S6: at the end of the day. And so I'm not
S6: surprised he sides put it on merchandise. I wouldn't be
S6: surprised if his detractors put it on merchandise as well.
S7: That is so true. I feel like the whole of
S7: America is a little bit like that. One interesting other
S7: note on this story, Jan, is that Donald Trump Jr
S7: is still coming here for a speaking tour next month.
S7: So I imagine he might be talking about this as well.
S6: Yeah, well, he was supposed to come I think it
S6: was a month ago and the trip got canceled because
S6: he said he wasn't given a visa by the Australian
S6: Government in time. The Government's denied that. But either way,
S6: you know, he's going to have a certainly and have
S6: a lot of things to talk about.
S7: Yeah, a bit of new material for his speeches. All right,
S7: We'll catch you later. Antoinette is up next with part
S7: one of her look at domestic violence.
S3: So I'll start with a trigger warning. The stories you're
S3: about to hear detail domestic violence, including sexual violence. And
S3: it's confronting you may find it disturbing or traumatizing. So
S3: hit pause if you need to take a moment. But
S3: I do implore you to stay with us if you can.
S3: When it comes to crime trends in Australia, domestic and
S3: sexual violence bucks the trend. Claire Weaver is Listeners investigations
S3: editor and she has some I'm going to say it
S3: peculiar hobbies because one of them is trawling through crime
S3: data in her spare time. Claire, thanks for joining us.
S3: Some people enjoy yoga or long walks on the beach
S3: in their spare time, but you're no cliche. So tell me,
S3: what did you find in your crime trawl?
S5: Hi, Antoinette. Yes, I am a total nerd.
S8: I will own that. So I was going through New
S8: South Wales Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research data over
S8: five years and it looked at all the major crimes
S8: and helpfully marked them in green and red. Now all
S8: the major crimes were marked in green and had dropped
S8: except for two of them which stood out in red.
S8: And they were domestic violence and sexual assaults. They were
S8: bucking the trend and had increased.
S3: Yeah. Wow. And do you think this is an anomaly?
S3: It's just a New South Wales experience.
S8: So to find that answer, I went looking in the
S8: ABS data for all the other states and territories and
S8: I found the same thing. We're looking at victims of
S8: domestic violence related sexual assaults and they had increased across
S8: the board. So Queensland had a very substantial jump of 59%
S8: over that same time period. New South Wales 35%. WA 20%.
S8: Northern Territory 16%, Victoria 12% and South Australia 7% now
S8: with the Act in Tasmania we're dealing with smaller populations
S8: compared to other states, but they have each recorded huge jumps.
S8: In the Act it was 54% and in Tasmania 201%,
S8: which is just huge.
S3: And could this in part I wonder, be a good
S3: thing because it shows that there's more awareness, more people
S3: are talking about it and as a result more people
S3: are reporting it?
S8: Absolutely. And that's an important part of the picture. So
S8: much work is being done in this space, so people
S8: are more inclined to report, which is great, but it's
S8: not the whole picture. All the experts I've spoken to
S8: have said there is also an increase.
S3: And I'm interested in particular how this may play out
S3: among young people, because there are a lot of sort
S3: of stereotypes about who the perpetrator and victim is of
S3: domestic violence. Absolutely.
S8: And look, the data tells us that the highest rates
S8: are in young people and it's very young. It's under
S8: 18 or early 20s. And what the frontline workers are
S8: saying is that that young people today are exposed to
S8: porn a lot more and at a younger age than ever.
S8: And that is actually shaping their expectations when it comes
S8: to sex. Some of this porn is explicit, violent, misogynistic
S8: and aggressive. And young people report they feel pressure to
S8: re-enact some of these acts when they get into a relationship,
S8: even if they don't want to.
S3: And I know often the research takes a while to
S3: catch up, but there is a slowly a body of
S3: research that's growing, that's linking the role of porn and
S3: domestic violence.
S8: Absolutely there is. And another thing I heard from frontline
S8: workers was that they're seeing a rise in really disturbing injuries,
S8: choking strangulation injuries, which can actually have long term impact
S8: on your brain and also really distressing internal injuries that
S8: end up in emergency departments.
S3: Listeners, investigations editor Claire Weaver. They're two women have decided
S3: to share their stories for the first time. Both experienced
S3: years of violence at the hands of people they loved
S3: and trusted. And porn played a role. Monique, which is
S3: not her real name, was just 14 when her then
S3: boyfriend started abusing her. Monique, thanks for your time and
S3: being so open about such a harrowing experience in your life.
S3: Can you describe the domestic violence you experienced?
S9: Basically, it was a range of different things from like
S9: coercive control, emotional abuse and blackmail to sexual assault, rape
S9: and physical abuse.
S3: Your boyfriend, as I understand, was about the same age
S3: as you, and that was 14 or 15. And at
S3: the time, he watched a lot of porn. How do
S3: you think that impacted the abuse you suffered?
S9: I sort of wasn't completely aware of it at the time.
S9: It's something that occurred to me later on. I mean,
S9: when asked what he was doing, he said that he
S9: was copying things that he'd seen in porn. So looking
S9: back on that now as an adult, I can only
S9: imagine the kind of pornography that that he would have
S9: been copying to be doing that kind of behaviour. It
S9: wouldn't have been like the main cause of the violence
S9: and the sexual abuse, but it was definitely influencing his actions.
S3: And was it hard.
S9: To accept.
S3: That domestic violence could impact someone so young? I mean,
S3: you were 14 at the time and that it could
S3: include sexual violence, given that you'd also had a consensual
S3: sexual relationship with him?
S9: Yeah, yeah, it was really difficult. I think at the
S9: time I felt like because I had said yes to
S9: the relationship, that I had said yes to anything that
S9: he would do within that relationship. Like I felt responsible
S9: for that, like I had signed. Up for something that
S9: I didn't completely understand. There are a lot of times
S9: when when I said that I wasn't comfortable with something
S9: or if I said I tried to stop what was happening,
S9: he would call me frigid or he would say that
S9: I was I was supposed to like it, or that
S9: if I loved him, I would do this. And and
S9: then he would also have a lot of emotional problems
S9: as well and sort of say things like, if I
S9: left him, he would kill himself. And so I felt
S9: very stuck and and really, really not understanding what was
S9: going on. I sort of felt really responsible in the
S9: relationship because it's what I had signed up for. And
S9: and I didn't want any of those horrible things to
S9: happen to him. And, and yeah, it was just a
S9: really difficult situation to be in, I think, and especially
S9: at such a young age when I had no understanding
S9: of what a healthy relationship should really look like, as
S9: well as not feeling like I can really go to
S9: anyone to talk about it. Yes.
S3: So at the time, did you know what domestic violence
S3: looked like or have much of a concept of it
S3: to identify it?
S9: Not at all. I had no idea that abuse and
S9: violence could happen within a relationship and with someone you knew.
S9: I think especially 20 years ago, we were sort of
S9: taught stranger danger and, you know, don't get into bands
S9: with old men and don't take candy from strangers and
S9: that kind of thing. I really had no understanding that
S9: that kind of thing can happen in a relationship or
S9: with someone that, you know. I knew him for a
S9: year before any of this started. So yeah, I had
S9: no idea that that was possible.
S3: And do you think there's much discussion about the role
S3: sexual violence plays in domestic violence? Because it sounds as
S3: though it took you several years until you reflected back
S3: and realized, okay, that was a form of the violence,
S3: and porn played a role in that too.
S9: Yeah, I think people often see it as separate, but
S9: I think they often coexist, unfortunately. And understanding of that
S9: happening in between really young relationships as well. I think
S9: people when they think about domestic violence, they think about
S9: married couples or when they think about sexual abuse or
S9: sexual assault, they think about, you know, older men in
S9: positions of authority taking advantage of children. And so even
S9: even now, as I'm processing through all of this and
S9: what I experienced, I find it really hard to find
S9: information about the kind of experience that I had. And
S9: it really wasn't until Chanel Contos came out with her
S9: Teach Us Consent campaign that I realized that it had
S9: happened to so many people and it makes me really angry.
S9: But at least I sort of felt a little bit
S9: more validated in what I experienced because up until then
S9: I just thought like, you know, just something was wrong
S9: with me and I just couldn't deal with handle the
S9: situation properly. And, you know, I'd done something wrong.
S3: That was a woman we're calling Monique. She's not the
S3: only one who's seen the accessibility and influence porn has
S3: had on sexual violence in relationships. Rachel is a victim
S3: survivor advocate and runs a service for women and young
S3: people called the Legacy Foundation. Rachel, thanks for sharing your
S3: experience with us, which I know included physical abuse, emotional abuse,
S3: financial abuse. But it's the sexual violence and abuse that
S3: in some ways impacted you the most. Can you tell
S3: me what it was like for you?
S5: We started off in our relationship with a pretty healthy
S5: sexual relationship, But what I found quite early on was
S5: that there were parts of that relationship that I didn't
S5: feel comfortable with, things like being pinned down, things like
S5: having hands around my throat and had to. Find the
S5: strength to speak up about those. And I feel like
S5: that was easier early on in that relationship before the
S5: coercive control had really taken place. But certainly what I
S5: realized was that a lot of those uncomfortable situations had
S5: come from porn.
S3: How much porn was your then partner watching you, do
S3: you know?
S5: I don't think I knew at the start how much
S5: porn he had watched previously and did watch when? When
S5: I wasn't with him. Certainly it wasn't long before I
S5: discovered that that was a regular part of his life
S5: and sex life. And. And I didn't necessarily have a
S5: huge issue with that. Everybody has different sexual tastes, and
S5: that's fine. I think where it became an issue was
S5: when it was crossing over into the bedroom and made
S5: me feel uncomfortable for the majority of the relationship. I
S5: was expected to talk dirty and if I didn't do that,
S5: there was either no sex or I was told that
S5: I was really boring. And the more pressure somebody puts
S5: on you to talk dirty, the less you actually want
S5: to do that. You feel this pressure to do those
S5: things and it actually turns you off sexually. And it
S5: got to the point in the last few years of
S5: our relationship where our sex life was almost nonexistent. And
S5: what he did was use sex as a tool of
S5: manipulation and control. So he would withhold sex as a
S5: form of control and tell me that I was so unattractive,
S5: I was so weak. And the only way he could
S5: possibly find me attractive was to watch porn at the
S5: same time.
S3: So now in in the support work you do, are
S3: people having these sorts of conversations about the way sexual
S3: violence plays out within domestic violence?
S5: Occasionally, but certainly not enough. And we know that we've
S5: had clients with us for two and a half years
S5: and only after a couple of years will they talk
S5: about the sexual violence that occurred within their relationship. We
S5: still feel that there's a huge taboo around that, a
S5: huge taboo around talking about sexual abuse and violence at all.
S5: But just in talking about sex in general, and they
S5: just don't feel comfortable. And I don't think that most
S5: people understand the level of sexual abuse and sexual violence
S5: that occurs within relationships. I think they are concerned to
S5: call it out. If somebody you're in a relationship with
S5: physically assaults, you, you know, and you can say they
S5: physically assaulted you, whether you choose to do anything about
S5: that or leave is is totally different. But you know
S5: what it is And you call it out with sexual
S5: violence in relationships, I think we're much less keen to
S5: call it out. We just we feel ashamed.
S3: And so many of the limited conversations that we are
S3: hearing around this is generally around heterosexual relationships with male perpetrators.
S3: What's your understanding of how this may play out in
S3: in queer relationships?
S5: I actually believe that it's it's far worse in queer relationships,
S5: much more likely to have sexual abuse and violence occurring
S5: and much more likely to put their partners under pressure
S5: to be using porn and also to bring in third
S5: parties and really putting pressure to accept the third party
S5: without that consent.
S3: What can we do to help young people in particular
S3: navigate sexual relationship and identify when it is domestic violence?
S5: I think it's got to start and end with education.
S5: I think we have to start educating our young ones
S5: about sex. What it is. I really feel that we
S5: need to be starting that education from early ages of
S5: primary school. And, you know, we don't have to talk
S5: about sex in when we're talking to kindergarten children, but
S5: we have to start talking about respectful relationships and consent.
S5: And I think that's where it starts. And then building
S5: on that year after year, these aren't conversations that should
S5: be happening in year 5 or 6 as a one off,
S5: and that's it. It's never touched on again, these things
S5: change and I think certainly by the time our children
S5: are in high school, this is something that we should
S5: be building on every year, checking in with the children,
S5: making sure they're safe, people for them to talk to
S5: if they do have any issues, but really making them
S5: understand that, you know, pornography can be okay to watch,
S5: but it doesn't necessarily portray what a healthy sexual relationship
S5: looks like. And if that's what you're forming your basis
S5: of sex on, you're going to end up in a
S5: really awful situation.
S3: Victim survivor advocate Rachel sharing her story with you there
S3: tomorrow on the Briefing. How can police protect domestic violence
S3: victims when there's a perpetrator in their ranks? You'll hear
S3: from an extraordinary woman who speaks out for the first time.
S3: She details what happens when she tried to report the
S3: abuse she suffered for years at the hands of her husband,
S3: who was a cop. And when she reported it to
S3: his colleagues in the police force. If you or. Someone
S3: you know is experiencing family violence. Phone one 800 Respect,
S3: which is available 24 over seven for counselling and support
S3: for men who have anger, relationship or parenting issues. There's
S3: the men's referral service on one 307 6491. Listener.