WEBVTT - The truth about domestic violence: Teens, porn and choking 0:00:00.150 --> 0:00:02.940 Just a warning that the following episode contains details of 0:00:02.940 --> 0:00:05.220 domestic violence, including sexual violence. 0:00:07.980 --> 0:00:09.660 A Listener production. 0:00:13.890 --> 0:00:17.730 Hello. It's Antoinette Lateef with you. Do you picture when 0:00:17.730 --> 0:00:20.520 you think of domestic violence? I'll tell you what quickly 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:22.650 comes to mind for me. It's a woman with black 0:00:22.650 --> 0:00:26.489 eyes and she's probably cowering in the corner. And the perpetrator, 0:00:26.489 --> 0:00:28.740 as I imagine it is likely to be a middle 0:00:28.740 --> 0:00:32.610 aged man. What about you? Maybe it's the couple you 0:00:32.610 --> 0:00:35.760 see in public. They might be drunk and his abuse 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.190 is loud and aggressive and you get the sense that 0:00:38.190 --> 0:00:40.650 this sort of thing happens a lot. This week on 0:00:40.650 --> 0:00:45.170 the briefing as part of a special investigation into domestic violence. 0:00:45.180 --> 0:00:48.240 We're going to challenge a lot of these stereotypes. At 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:51.870 the moment, all major crime trends are decreasing, which is 0:00:51.870 --> 0:00:56.520 good news, except for domestic violence and sexual assault. Over 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.670 the next few days, in a briefing special, you'll hear 0:00:59.670 --> 0:01:03.540 from women who've never shared their stories, including a victim 0:01:03.540 --> 0:01:08.490 survivor whose abuser was her husband and also a police officer. 0:01:08.490 --> 0:01:11.429 I can imagine that a lot of members would think 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.090 that they could get away with it. It's just the mentality. No. 0:01:15.090 --> 0:01:20.490 One report me because I'm in a authoritative environment. 0:01:20.490 --> 0:01:23.910 And there's also growing concern about how porn is influencing 0:01:23.910 --> 0:01:25.050 domestic violence. 0:01:25.170 --> 0:01:27.270 Where it became an issue was when it was crossing 0:01:27.270 --> 0:01:30.120 over into the bedroom and made me feel uncomfortable. 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.149 And I know this doesn't make for easy listening, but 0:01:33.150 --> 0:01:36.900 I promise there'll be solutions and you'll walk away understanding 0:01:36.900 --> 0:01:38.850 that we all have a role to play and you'll 0:01:38.850 --> 0:01:41.610 be equipped with a few things you can do yourself. 0:01:41.610 --> 0:01:44.700 But first, here are today's headlines with Tom and Jan. 0:01:44.700 --> 0:01:47.100 It's Monday, the 28th of August. 0:01:50.110 --> 0:01:54.100 Good morning, everyone. Three. US Marines have been killed in 0:01:54.100 --> 0:01:58.960 an aircraft crash during a joint training exercise on Melville Island. 0:01:59.170 --> 0:02:02.410 This is just off the coast of Darwin. So 23 0:02:02.410 --> 0:02:06.490 Marines were on board the aircraft when it crashed. It 0:02:06.490 --> 0:02:13.359 was during a routine exercise and happened around 9:30 a.m. yesterday. Now, 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:15.760 this is still a developing story. And when asked if 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:18.940 she knew why the aircraft had come down, the NT 0:02:18.940 --> 0:02:21.280 Chief Minister Natasha Fyles, said this. 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.040 No, we'd be unable to comment on that. Our focus 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:26.530 right now is, is those patients and giving them the 0:02:26.530 --> 0:02:27.280 care that they need. 0:02:27.460 --> 0:02:30.490 Yeah. So there are at least five patients now in 0:02:30.490 --> 0:02:35.110 Darwin Hospital with serious injuries. And sadly, this isn't the 0:02:35.110 --> 0:02:39.400 only sort of training crash that's happened recently. Yeah, it's. 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:43.239 So devastating when these troops die in training exercises. So 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.750 this one over the weekend was a joint exercise involving 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:52.930 2000 troops, Australians, Americans, troops from the Philippines, Timor-Leste and Indonesia. 0:02:52.930 --> 0:02:56.380 And last month, you might remember that training exercise where 0:02:56.380 --> 0:03:00.760 for Australian Army air crew members died in a helicopter 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.660 crash off the coast of Hamilton Island. So two crashes 0:03:04.660 --> 0:03:09.460 within a month. And in Spain, FIFA has suspended the 0:03:09.460 --> 0:03:14.140 Spanish Football Federation Luis Roubles. After that kiss, it's the 0:03:14.139 --> 0:03:17.290 kiss where he kissed Jennifer Hermoso without her consent after 0:03:17.290 --> 0:03:21.040 Spain's win at the World Cup final last weekend. So 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.350 FIFA said that he's been removed from his duties for 0:03:23.350 --> 0:03:28.269 90 days pending the disciplinary proceedings opened against him. They've 0:03:28.270 --> 0:03:32.110 also banned him from contacting Hermoso, as well as Royal 0:03:32.110 --> 0:03:35.860 Spanish Football Federation and its officials or employees during that 0:03:35.860 --> 0:03:40.660 90 days. This comes after he refused to resign from 0:03:40.660 --> 0:03:45.430 his presidency, despite being under intense pressure from the Spanish government, 0:03:45.430 --> 0:03:48.490 The female players, the clubs and officials. 0:03:48.490 --> 0:03:53.110 This story, I think, has really just captured Spain's imagination. 0:03:53.110 --> 0:03:57.100 I've heard it reported as being Spain's MeToo moment. And 0:03:57.100 --> 0:04:00.430 there was a cartoon in the paper that said, Grandma, 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:02.230 tell us how you won the World Cup. And the 0:04:02.230 --> 0:04:04.270 grandma says to the to the child, oh, we didn't 0:04:04.270 --> 0:04:07.450 just win the World Cup. We won so much more. 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.080 So they're calling it. Yeah, as you said, Spain's MeToo moment. 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.140 So since the final remember, it's just a week ago, 0:04:14.230 --> 0:04:17.230 the World Cup champion players said they would not play 0:04:17.230 --> 0:04:21.820 for the national team until the federation's leadership was removed. 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.870 More than 50 other top female players join them in 0:04:25.900 --> 0:04:28.900 that move. Then on Saturday, nearly all of the coaching 0:04:28.900 --> 0:04:32.590 and technical staff of Spain's women's team resigned. So did 0:04:32.589 --> 0:04:36.610 seven members of the Spanish Football Federation all over this incident. 0:04:36.610 --> 0:04:38.890 And then at some of the games over the weekend, 0:04:38.890 --> 0:04:41.500 people are turning up with t shirts saying si acabo, 0:04:41.500 --> 0:04:46.330 which means it's over. So, so much anger, so much pressure. 0:04:46.330 --> 0:04:48.790 And finally, some kind of result. 0:04:49.060 --> 0:04:52.779 Yeah. And I think the anger comes from Ruby Ali's 0:04:52.779 --> 0:04:56.500 reaction to all of this. He refused to stand down. 0:04:56.500 --> 0:05:00.220 He said that the Football Federation was actually going to 0:05:00.220 --> 0:05:04.000 sue Hermoso for comments that she made against him. He 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:07.900 also said that he was being attacked by fake feminism. 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.140 So really standing his ground in a way that's made 0:05:11.140 --> 0:05:14.620 a lot of people in Spain, including the government, obviously, 0:05:14.620 --> 0:05:18.130 including a lot of football players, very angry. 0:05:19.060 --> 0:05:23.710 And Russian investigators have confirmed that the Wagner boss, Yevgeny Prigozhin, 0:05:23.710 --> 0:05:27.280 is dead. That's after last week's plane crash. So they've 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.339 released a report that says the genetic test for the 0:05:30.339 --> 0:05:33.580 ten people on the passenger list match the remains they 0:05:33.580 --> 0:05:37.930 recovered from the crash site, including Prigozhin. There are, of course, 0:05:37.930 --> 0:05:40.599 still questions about whether the plane crash was ordered by 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:45.850 the Kremlin after Prigozhin mutinied against Russia's army in June, 0:05:46.210 --> 0:05:49.510 leading Wagner troops on a march almost all the way 0:05:49.510 --> 0:05:50.500 to Moscow. 0:05:50.620 --> 0:05:54.880 Yeah, it's interesting to see what Yevgeny Prigozhin legacy is 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:58.630 going to be. We heard last week Putin give him 0:05:58.630 --> 0:06:01.750 a sort of a tepid eulogy, but a eulogy nonetheless. 0:06:01.750 --> 0:06:03.850 You know, he said that he had he was a 0:06:03.850 --> 0:06:08.200 talented businessman. He had made a significant contribution to the war. 0:06:08.410 --> 0:06:11.470 So it'd be interesting to see how that sort of ends. 0:06:11.470 --> 0:06:13.089 I guess a lot of that will depend on what 0:06:13.089 --> 0:06:15.970 happens in the war in Ukraine and whether Putin really 0:06:15.970 --> 0:06:18.970 changes that language and insists on calling him a traitor. 0:06:20.370 --> 0:06:24.479 And the Trump campaign has raised 7 million USD since 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:29.040 his police mugshot was taken at a prison in Atlanta, Georgia, 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.950 last Thursday. So a lot of the money's coming from 0:06:31.950 --> 0:06:36.950 selling merchandise like mugs, t shirts and drink coolers. So 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:38.610 now if I'd want to drink from one of those. 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.640 Trump has been released on bail, but he's charged with 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.570 plotting to overturn the state's 2020 election results. This is 0:06:45.570 --> 0:06:49.620 the fourth indictment he's facing and potentially the fourth trial 0:06:49.620 --> 0:06:52.020 he'll face before next year's election. 0:06:52.140 --> 0:06:52.529 Yeah, not. 0:06:52.529 --> 0:06:55.200 Surprised they slap in that mug shot on some merchandise. 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.919 This feels like, you know, the the test that psychiatrists 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.339 give kids or people where they make them look at 0:07:02.339 --> 0:07:05.580 a picture of just a blob. And they asked them, 0:07:05.580 --> 0:07:08.370 what do you see in this picture? It feels like 0:07:08.370 --> 0:07:12.500 the Trump mug shot. Is that in a weird way, 0:07:12.510 --> 0:07:14.910 if you're a fan of Trump, you look at that 0:07:14.910 --> 0:07:19.470 and you see somebody who is defiant, who is a hero, 0:07:19.470 --> 0:07:22.830 who is standing up to the liberal establishment. If you're 0:07:22.830 --> 0:07:25.020 on the other side, you see it as a sign 0:07:25.020 --> 0:07:28.380 of how far Trump has fallen. It's the same picture 0:07:28.380 --> 0:07:31.170 at the end of the day. And so I'm not 0:07:31.170 --> 0:07:33.510 surprised he sides put it on merchandise. I wouldn't be 0:07:33.510 --> 0:07:36.690 surprised if his detractors put it on merchandise as well. 0:07:37.860 --> 0:07:39.570 That is so true. I feel like the whole of 0:07:39.570 --> 0:07:42.180 America is a little bit like that. One interesting other 0:07:42.180 --> 0:07:45.050 note on this story, Jan, is that Donald Trump Jr 0:07:45.060 --> 0:07:48.120 is still coming here for a speaking tour next month. 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.450 So I imagine he might be talking about this as well. 0:07:50.460 --> 0:07:53.489 Yeah, well, he was supposed to come I think it 0:07:53.490 --> 0:07:55.830 was a month ago and the trip got canceled because 0:07:55.830 --> 0:07:57.660 he said he wasn't given a visa by the Australian 0:07:57.660 --> 0:08:01.410 Government in time. The Government's denied that. But either way, 0:08:02.250 --> 0:08:05.160 you know, he's going to have a certainly and have 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:06.330 a lot of things to talk about. 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.450 Yeah, a bit of new material for his speeches. All right, 0:08:09.450 --> 0:08:12.060 We'll catch you later. Antoinette is up next with part 0:08:12.060 --> 0:08:14.970 one of her look at domestic violence. 0:08:24.430 --> 0:08:27.520 So I'll start with a trigger warning. The stories you're 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:32.650 about to hear detail domestic violence, including sexual violence. And 0:08:32.650 --> 0:08:36.910 it's confronting you may find it disturbing or traumatizing. So 0:08:36.910 --> 0:08:39.430 hit pause if you need to take a moment. But 0:08:39.429 --> 0:08:42.010 I do implore you to stay with us if you can. 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.949 When it comes to crime trends in Australia, domestic and 0:08:44.950 --> 0:08:49.480 sexual violence bucks the trend. Claire Weaver is Listeners investigations 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:51.699 editor and she has some I'm going to say it 0:08:51.700 --> 0:08:55.510 peculiar hobbies because one of them is trawling through crime 0:08:55.510 --> 0:08:58.840 data in her spare time. Claire, thanks for joining us. 0:08:58.929 --> 0:09:01.840 Some people enjoy yoga or long walks on the beach 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.780 in their spare time, but you're no cliche. So tell me, 0:09:04.780 --> 0:09:07.030 what did you find in your crime trawl? 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.220 Hi, Antoinette. Yes, I am a total nerd. 0:09:09.220 --> 0:09:11.380 I will own that. So I was going through New 0:09:11.380 --> 0:09:15.010 South Wales Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research data over 0:09:15.010 --> 0:09:17.350 five years and it looked at all the major crimes 0:09:17.350 --> 0:09:20.439 and helpfully marked them in green and red. Now all 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.050 the major crimes were marked in green and had dropped 0:09:23.050 --> 0:09:25.089 except for two of them which stood out in red. 0:09:25.090 --> 0:09:28.330 And they were domestic violence and sexual assaults. They were 0:09:28.330 --> 0:09:30.160 bucking the trend and had increased. 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.380 Yeah. Wow. And do you think this is an anomaly? 0:09:32.380 --> 0:09:34.120 It's just a New South Wales experience. 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.460 So to find that answer, I went looking in the 0:09:36.460 --> 0:09:39.070 ABS data for all the other states and territories and 0:09:39.070 --> 0:09:42.010 I found the same thing. We're looking at victims of 0:09:42.010 --> 0:09:45.130 domestic violence related sexual assaults and they had increased across 0:09:45.130 --> 0:09:49.150 the board. So Queensland had a very substantial jump of 59% 0:09:49.150 --> 0:09:54.250 over that same time period. New South Wales 35%. WA 20%. 0:09:54.250 --> 0:09:59.290 Northern Territory 16%, Victoria 12% and South Australia 7% now 0:09:59.290 --> 0:10:02.230 with the Act in Tasmania we're dealing with smaller populations 0:10:02.230 --> 0:10:05.680 compared to other states, but they have each recorded huge jumps. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:09.850 In the Act it was 54% and in Tasmania 201%, 0:10:09.850 --> 0:10:11.380 which is just huge. 0:10:11.380 --> 0:10:14.080 And could this in part I wonder, be a good 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.780 thing because it shows that there's more awareness, more people 0:10:16.780 --> 0:10:19.420 are talking about it and as a result more people 0:10:19.420 --> 0:10:20.140 are reporting it? 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.660 Absolutely. And that's an important part of the picture. So 0:10:22.660 --> 0:10:24.670 much work is being done in this space, so people 0:10:24.670 --> 0:10:27.160 are more inclined to report, which is great, but it's 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.410 not the whole picture. All the experts I've spoken to 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.750 have said there is also an increase. 0:10:31.750 --> 0:10:34.270 And I'm interested in particular how this may play out 0:10:34.270 --> 0:10:36.309 among young people, because there are a lot of sort 0:10:36.309 --> 0:10:39.550 of stereotypes about who the perpetrator and victim is of 0:10:39.550 --> 0:10:41.080 domestic violence. Absolutely. 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.240 And look, the data tells us that the highest rates 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.610 are in young people and it's very young. It's under 0:10:45.610 --> 0:10:49.270 18 or early 20s. And what the frontline workers are 0:10:49.270 --> 0:10:52.030 saying is that that young people today are exposed to 0:10:52.030 --> 0:10:55.300 porn a lot more and at a younger age than ever. 0:10:55.300 --> 0:10:58.270 And that is actually shaping their expectations when it comes 0:10:58.270 --> 0:11:02.920 to sex. Some of this porn is explicit, violent, misogynistic 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.950 and aggressive. And young people report they feel pressure to 0:11:05.950 --> 0:11:08.770 re-enact some of these acts when they get into a relationship, 0:11:08.770 --> 0:11:09.970 even if they don't want to. 0:11:10.090 --> 0:11:12.070 And I know often the research takes a while to 0:11:12.070 --> 0:11:14.500 catch up, but there is a slowly a body of 0:11:14.500 --> 0:11:18.250 research that's growing, that's linking the role of porn and 0:11:18.250 --> 0:11:19.240 domestic violence. 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.729 Absolutely there is. And another thing I heard from frontline 0:11:21.730 --> 0:11:24.670 workers was that they're seeing a rise in really disturbing injuries, 0:11:24.850 --> 0:11:28.569 choking strangulation injuries, which can actually have long term impact 0:11:28.570 --> 0:11:32.230 on your brain and also really distressing internal injuries that 0:11:32.230 --> 0:11:33.819 end up in emergency departments. 0:11:33.970 --> 0:11:38.380 Listeners, investigations editor Claire Weaver. They're two women have decided 0:11:38.380 --> 0:11:41.890 to share their stories for the first time. Both experienced 0:11:41.890 --> 0:11:44.679 years of violence at the hands of people they loved 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.429 and trusted. And porn played a role. Monique, which is 0:11:48.429 --> 0:11:51.400 not her real name, was just 14 when her then 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:55.240 boyfriend started abusing her. Monique, thanks for your time and 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:59.440 being so open about such a harrowing experience in your life. 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.860 Can you describe the domestic violence you experienced? 0:12:03.490 --> 0:12:07.479 Basically, it was a range of different things from like 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:13.600 coercive control, emotional abuse and blackmail to sexual assault, rape 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:15.940 and physical abuse. 0:12:16.150 --> 0:12:19.059 Your boyfriend, as I understand, was about the same age 0:12:19.059 --> 0:12:22.270 as you, and that was 14 or 15. And at 0:12:22.270 --> 0:12:24.550 the time, he watched a lot of porn. How do 0:12:24.550 --> 0:12:27.340 you think that impacted the abuse you suffered? 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.860 I sort of wasn't completely aware of it at the time. 0:12:29.860 --> 0:12:31.989 It's something that occurred to me later on. I mean, 0:12:31.990 --> 0:12:34.660 when asked what he was doing, he said that he 0:12:34.660 --> 0:12:37.660 was copying things that he'd seen in porn. So looking 0:12:37.660 --> 0:12:40.000 back on that now as an adult, I can only 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.880 imagine the kind of pornography that that he would have 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.210 been copying to be doing that kind of behaviour. It 0:12:46.210 --> 0:12:49.300 wouldn't have been like the main cause of the violence 0:12:49.300 --> 0:12:53.590 and the sexual abuse, but it was definitely influencing his actions. 0:12:53.590 --> 0:12:55.270 And was it hard. 0:12:55.270 --> 0:12:55.990 To accept. 0:12:55.990 --> 0:13:00.150 That domestic violence could impact someone so young? I mean, 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.010 you were 14 at the time and that it could 0:13:03.010 --> 0:13:09.160 include sexual violence, given that you'd also had a consensual 0:13:09.460 --> 0:13:11.170 sexual relationship with him? 0:13:11.170 --> 0:13:13.570 Yeah, yeah, it was really difficult. I think at the 0:13:13.570 --> 0:13:16.480 time I felt like because I had said yes to 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.270 the relationship, that I had said yes to anything that 0:13:19.270 --> 0:13:22.989 he would do within that relationship. Like I felt responsible 0:13:22.990 --> 0:13:24.679 for that, like I had signed. Up for something that 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:27.650 I didn't completely understand. There are a lot of times 0:13:27.650 --> 0:13:30.980 when when I said that I wasn't comfortable with something 0:13:30.980 --> 0:13:33.470 or if I said I tried to stop what was happening, 0:13:33.470 --> 0:13:36.740 he would call me frigid or he would say that 0:13:37.010 --> 0:13:38.929 I was I was supposed to like it, or that 0:13:38.929 --> 0:13:41.270 if I loved him, I would do this. And and 0:13:41.270 --> 0:13:45.320 then he would also have a lot of emotional problems 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.240 as well and sort of say things like, if I 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.300 left him, he would kill himself. And so I felt 0:13:50.300 --> 0:13:55.010 very stuck and and really, really not understanding what was 0:13:55.010 --> 0:13:58.099 going on. I sort of felt really responsible in the 0:13:58.100 --> 0:14:00.679 relationship because it's what I had signed up for. And 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:02.810 and I didn't want any of those horrible things to 0:14:02.809 --> 0:14:05.449 happen to him. And, and yeah, it was just a 0:14:05.450 --> 0:14:07.970 really difficult situation to be in, I think, and especially 0:14:07.970 --> 0:14:10.100 at such a young age when I had no understanding 0:14:10.100 --> 0:14:13.280 of what a healthy relationship should really look like, as 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.920 well as not feeling like I can really go to 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:17.900 anyone to talk about it. Yes. 0:14:17.900 --> 0:14:20.150 So at the time, did you know what domestic violence 0:14:20.150 --> 0:14:23.510 looked like or have much of a concept of it 0:14:23.510 --> 0:14:24.660 to identify it? 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.500 Not at all. I had no idea that abuse and 0:14:27.500 --> 0:14:30.650 violence could happen within a relationship and with someone you knew. 0:14:31.220 --> 0:14:34.580 I think especially 20 years ago, we were sort of 0:14:34.580 --> 0:14:38.510 taught stranger danger and, you know, don't get into bands 0:14:38.510 --> 0:14:41.210 with old men and don't take candy from strangers and 0:14:41.210 --> 0:14:43.910 that kind of thing. I really had no understanding that 0:14:43.910 --> 0:14:46.520 that kind of thing can happen in a relationship or 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.490 with someone that, you know. I knew him for a 0:14:49.490 --> 0:14:52.340 year before any of this started. So yeah, I had 0:14:52.340 --> 0:14:53.810 no idea that that was possible. 0:14:53.990 --> 0:14:57.230 And do you think there's much discussion about the role 0:14:57.230 --> 0:15:01.010 sexual violence plays in domestic violence? Because it sounds as 0:15:01.010 --> 0:15:03.980 though it took you several years until you reflected back 0:15:03.980 --> 0:15:06.710 and realized, okay, that was a form of the violence, 0:15:06.710 --> 0:15:08.660 and porn played a role in that too. 0:15:09.050 --> 0:15:12.860 Yeah, I think people often see it as separate, but 0:15:12.860 --> 0:15:18.050 I think they often coexist, unfortunately. And understanding of that 0:15:18.050 --> 0:15:22.160 happening in between really young relationships as well. I think 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.590 people when they think about domestic violence, they think about 0:15:24.590 --> 0:15:28.130 married couples or when they think about sexual abuse or 0:15:28.130 --> 0:15:30.740 sexual assault, they think about, you know, older men in 0:15:30.740 --> 0:15:34.550 positions of authority taking advantage of children. And so even 0:15:34.550 --> 0:15:37.890 even now, as I'm processing through all of this and 0:15:37.910 --> 0:15:40.520 what I experienced, I find it really hard to find 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:44.270 information about the kind of experience that I had. And 0:15:44.270 --> 0:15:47.960 it really wasn't until Chanel Contos came out with her 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.470 Teach Us Consent campaign that I realized that it had 0:15:51.470 --> 0:15:54.170 happened to so many people and it makes me really angry. 0:15:54.170 --> 0:15:56.990 But at least I sort of felt a little bit 0:15:56.990 --> 0:15:59.540 more validated in what I experienced because up until then 0:15:59.540 --> 0:16:02.270 I just thought like, you know, just something was wrong 0:16:02.270 --> 0:16:04.370 with me and I just couldn't deal with handle the 0:16:04.370 --> 0:16:07.580 situation properly. And, you know, I'd done something wrong. 0:16:07.820 --> 0:16:11.120 That was a woman we're calling Monique. She's not the 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:15.320 only one who's seen the accessibility and influence porn has 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.340 had on sexual violence in relationships. Rachel is a victim 0:16:19.340 --> 0:16:22.340 survivor advocate and runs a service for women and young 0:16:22.340 --> 0:16:26.360 people called the Legacy Foundation. Rachel, thanks for sharing your 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:30.290 experience with us, which I know included physical abuse, emotional abuse, 0:16:30.290 --> 0:16:34.070 financial abuse. But it's the sexual violence and abuse that 0:16:34.070 --> 0:16:36.920 in some ways impacted you the most. Can you tell 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:38.390 me what it was like for you? 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.500 We started off in our relationship with a pretty healthy 0:16:42.500 --> 0:16:46.610 sexual relationship, But what I found quite early on was 0:16:46.610 --> 0:16:49.430 that there were parts of that relationship that I didn't 0:16:49.430 --> 0:16:53.930 feel comfortable with, things like being pinned down, things like 0:16:53.930 --> 0:16:57.950 having hands around my throat and had to. Find the 0:16:57.950 --> 0:17:00.590 strength to speak up about those. And I feel like 0:17:00.590 --> 0:17:03.620 that was easier early on in that relationship before the 0:17:03.620 --> 0:17:08.929 coercive control had really taken place. But certainly what I 0:17:08.930 --> 0:17:11.810 realized was that a lot of those uncomfortable situations had 0:17:11.810 --> 0:17:13.399 come from porn. 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:17.120 How much porn was your then partner watching you, do 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:17.630 you know? 0:17:17.810 --> 0:17:20.030 I don't think I knew at the start how much 0:17:20.030 --> 0:17:24.080 porn he had watched previously and did watch when? When 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.949 I wasn't with him. Certainly it wasn't long before I 0:17:27.980 --> 0:17:31.460 discovered that that was a regular part of his life 0:17:31.460 --> 0:17:35.419 and sex life. And. And I didn't necessarily have a 0:17:35.420 --> 0:17:40.100 huge issue with that. Everybody has different sexual tastes, and 0:17:40.100 --> 0:17:43.430 that's fine. I think where it became an issue was 0:17:43.430 --> 0:17:45.800 when it was crossing over into the bedroom and made 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.670 me feel uncomfortable for the majority of the relationship. I 0:17:49.670 --> 0:17:53.630 was expected to talk dirty and if I didn't do that, 0:17:53.630 --> 0:17:56.690 there was either no sex or I was told that 0:17:56.690 --> 0:18:00.500 I was really boring. And the more pressure somebody puts 0:18:00.500 --> 0:18:02.810 on you to talk dirty, the less you actually want 0:18:02.810 --> 0:18:05.420 to do that. You feel this pressure to do those 0:18:05.420 --> 0:18:09.859 things and it actually turns you off sexually. And it 0:18:09.859 --> 0:18:12.020 got to the point in the last few years of 0:18:12.020 --> 0:18:16.159 our relationship where our sex life was almost nonexistent. And 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:18.229 what he did was use sex as a tool of 0:18:18.230 --> 0:18:22.310 manipulation and control. So he would withhold sex as a 0:18:22.310 --> 0:18:26.180 form of control and tell me that I was so unattractive, 0:18:26.180 --> 0:18:28.250 I was so weak. And the only way he could 0:18:28.250 --> 0:18:30.590 possibly find me attractive was to watch porn at the 0:18:30.590 --> 0:18:31.530 same time. 0:18:31.550 --> 0:18:35.330 So now in in the support work you do, are 0:18:35.330 --> 0:18:38.630 people having these sorts of conversations about the way sexual 0:18:38.630 --> 0:18:41.420 violence plays out within domestic violence? 0:18:42.230 --> 0:18:46.430 Occasionally, but certainly not enough. And we know that we've 0:18:46.430 --> 0:18:49.609 had clients with us for two and a half years 0:18:49.609 --> 0:18:51.949 and only after a couple of years will they talk 0:18:51.950 --> 0:18:55.430 about the sexual violence that occurred within their relationship. We 0:18:55.430 --> 0:18:58.129 still feel that there's a huge taboo around that, a 0:18:58.130 --> 0:19:03.050 huge taboo around talking about sexual abuse and violence at all. 0:19:03.050 --> 0:19:06.470 But just in talking about sex in general, and they 0:19:06.470 --> 0:19:10.369 just don't feel comfortable. And I don't think that most 0:19:10.369 --> 0:19:14.360 people understand the level of sexual abuse and sexual violence 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:18.350 that occurs within relationships. I think they are concerned to 0:19:18.350 --> 0:19:21.350 call it out. If somebody you're in a relationship with 0:19:21.350 --> 0:19:24.560 physically assaults, you, you know, and you can say they 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.230 physically assaulted you, whether you choose to do anything about 0:19:27.230 --> 0:19:30.350 that or leave is is totally different. But you know 0:19:30.350 --> 0:19:32.750 what it is And you call it out with sexual 0:19:32.750 --> 0:19:35.660 violence in relationships, I think we're much less keen to 0:19:35.660 --> 0:19:38.600 call it out. We just we feel ashamed. 0:19:39.020 --> 0:19:41.630 And so many of the limited conversations that we are 0:19:41.630 --> 0:19:48.410 hearing around this is generally around heterosexual relationships with male perpetrators. 0:19:48.650 --> 0:19:51.109 What's your understanding of how this may play out in 0:19:51.109 --> 0:19:52.429 in queer relationships? 0:19:52.580 --> 0:19:56.480 I actually believe that it's it's far worse in queer relationships, 0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:01.699 much more likely to have sexual abuse and violence occurring 0:20:01.700 --> 0:20:06.110 and much more likely to put their partners under pressure 0:20:06.109 --> 0:20:08.840 to be using porn and also to bring in third 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:14.420 parties and really putting pressure to accept the third party 0:20:14.420 --> 0:20:16.040 without that consent. 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.399 What can we do to help young people in particular 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:24.379 navigate sexual relationship and identify when it is domestic violence? 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:28.100 I think it's got to start and end with education. 0:20:28.100 --> 0:20:30.679 I think we have to start educating our young ones 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.949 about sex. What it is. I really feel that we 0:20:33.950 --> 0:20:36.770 need to be starting that education from early ages of 0:20:36.770 --> 0:20:39.350 primary school. And, you know, we don't have to talk 0:20:39.350 --> 0:20:43.160 about sex in when we're talking to kindergarten children, but 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:46.490 we have to start talking about respectful relationships and consent. 0:20:46.490 --> 0:20:49.700 And I think that's where it starts. And then building 0:20:49.700 --> 0:20:53.119 on that year after year, these aren't conversations that should 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.600 be happening in year 5 or 6 as a one off, 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.840 and that's it. It's never touched on again, these things 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:02.990 change and I think certainly by the time our children 0:21:02.990 --> 0:21:04.940 are in high school, this is something that we should 0:21:04.940 --> 0:21:07.700 be building on every year, checking in with the children, 0:21:07.700 --> 0:21:10.160 making sure they're safe, people for them to talk to 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:13.430 if they do have any issues, but really making them 0:21:13.430 --> 0:21:17.960 understand that, you know, pornography can be okay to watch, 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:21.950 but it doesn't necessarily portray what a healthy sexual relationship 0:21:21.950 --> 0:21:24.740 looks like. And if that's what you're forming your basis 0:21:24.740 --> 0:21:26.600 of sex on, you're going to end up in a 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:28.400 really awful situation. 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:32.480 Victim survivor advocate Rachel sharing her story with you there 0:21:32.900 --> 0:21:36.620 tomorrow on the Briefing. How can police protect domestic violence 0:21:36.619 --> 0:21:40.250 victims when there's a perpetrator in their ranks? You'll hear 0:21:40.250 --> 0:21:44.359 from an extraordinary woman who speaks out for the first time. 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:47.390 She details what happens when she tried to report the 0:21:47.390 --> 0:21:51.290 abuse she suffered for years at the hands of her husband, 0:21:51.290 --> 0:21:53.480 who was a cop. And when she reported it to 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:57.210 his colleagues in the police force. If you or. Someone 0:21:57.210 --> 0:22:01.920 you know is experiencing family violence. Phone one 800 Respect, 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:06.000 which is available 24 over seven for counselling and support 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:10.560 for men who have anger, relationship or parenting issues. There's 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:23.060 the men's referral service on one 307 6491. Listener.