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S1: Listener, Kiki acknowledges the traditional owners and custodians of the

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S1: land in which we're recording this podcast. The Wu-Tang clan

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S1: of the Boomerang, who were a part of the Kulin nation.

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S1: We pay our respects to our elders, past and present,

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S1: and extend our respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander

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S1: peoples today.

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S2: Welcome to the Kick Pod, a.

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S1: Dam with your besties on the stuff that matters.

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S2: One. Two. Three.

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UU: Four. One. Two. Three. Four.

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S1: Hello, Quadlings. Hello, Steffi.

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S2: Hello. Oh, that was weird. Sorry. That was a weird voice.

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S1: How are you doing?

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S2: I'm doing good. Good.

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S1: And I am doing. If you do want to know.

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S2: Yes. How are you doing? That was very rude of me.

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S1: No, it's not rude of you, but I was going

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S1: to say it was my Segway, so that's why I

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S1: was waiting for the question.

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S2: Okay. How are you doing?

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S1: I'm exceptionally good. Because we are about to share our

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S1: episode with the incredible Lucinda Price, aka Froomes. She is

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S1: just an absolute legend. Lucinda is a writer, comedian, a broadcaster,

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S1: has written a media. Oh wow. Broadcast. I think I

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S1: tried to combine.

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S2: The words.

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S1: Writer, comedian, broadcaster. She has also written for some of

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S1: the biggest publications in Australia. She does some very funny

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S1: videos online, which you would have seen. And the reason

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S1: that apart from all these awesome things that we just

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S1: spoke through, Lucinda has just released her first book, which

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S1: is called all I Ever Wanted to Be Hot, and

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S1: it is a memoir meets manifesto about her own experience

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S1: with an eating disorder, as well as exploring the pressures

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S1: on young women. And we just loved this book The

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S1: Honesty is it's very rare, I think, to read something

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S1: so honest around the topic of eating disorders and just

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S1: the pressure on us to look a certain way. And

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S1: I think also to admit that you cared so much

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S1: about it, which I feel like there's shame around that.

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S1: But it's also like, what are so many people will do? Exactly, exactly.

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S1: So we were like, okay, we've got to get you

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S1: on to talk about it.

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S2: Yeah. And so the awesome part, though with Lucinda is

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S2: how honest she is, not just in the book, but

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S2: on today's chat, we, we spoke about a few different

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S2: things that she does cover off in the book, like

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S2: getting a nose job when she was young, getting breast augmentation,

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S2: how she feels about her nose job compared to her

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S2: breast augmentation, moving to Sydney, kind of relocating and, um,

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S2: how like her eating disorder even felt like it was

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S2: part of her job. Um, and she was just really honest,

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S2: as Laura said about like, the unfortunately common thoughts that

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S2: do cross our mind in how we look and how

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S2: we need to look to repair a certain way or

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S2: to get somewhere in our career and was very open

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S2: in this chat, so thank you for that. But obviously

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S2: with this chat we do want to have a trigger

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S2: warning here. We do talk about eating disorders, weight loss

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S2: and disordered eating in this episode. So if you need

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S2: support or want support to help someone that you know,

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S2: you can contact the Butterfly Foundation on one 880 Hope

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S2: or one 833 4673. And we'll pop that information in

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S2: our show notes. But here is the lovely Lucinda.

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S1: Lucinda, welcome to the Kick Pod.

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S3: Hello, Queen. I'm so excited to be here. We're so excited.

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S1: To have you. And we are sitting here. You have

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S1: got a bejeweled or bedazzled or both drink bottle. You

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S1: smell like musk heaven. And it's just like, I want.

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S2: To go and buy musk sticks from, like, a milk bar.

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S3: Now. Oh, God. Thank you guys. What is this.

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S1: Perfume? Because you said you were testing it. Yes.

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S3: I'm trying to decide what my new scent is. Um,

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S3: I'm going to make a heap because I've been getting

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S3: my make up done for the book tour, and I

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S3: really want the Tom Ford Rose de Malfi. Okay, but

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S3: when I've been showing my friends, they're like, you smell

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S3: like a grandma. But then other people say, it smells good.

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S2: So that's what it is. Yeah. No, it's not grandma.

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S2: Not to me.

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S1: It's like this. Guys, I wish you could smell this.

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S1: I mean, you could go into.

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S2: You can go into macarons and do a.

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S1: Tester, but it smells like grounding. Like, it's like nostalgic

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S1: and grounding. Mhm. Yeah. That's what I'm getting right now.

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S1: But anyway thank you. So I feel like it's going

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S1: to be an amazing conversation because it's grounding right.

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S3: Yeah that actually I really appreciate smelling nice things. So

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S3: I'm glad that you think I smell nice.

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S1: Anyway now obviously we're here to talk about your perfume,

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S1: but maybe a little bit more importantly, your book. But no,

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S1: definitely not the perfume. Um, so congratulations on your book.

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S1: First of all, it is incredible. We were just talking

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S1: about it off mic before. I mean, obviously it's so funny.

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S1: We say don't judge a book by its cover, but

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S1: I feel like a lot of us, like buy books

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S1: based on the cover catches your eye. At least the

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S1: cover is amazing. Thank you. Love it. Um, and we

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S1: wanted to, I think for us and with everything that

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S1: we do with kick and our mission, like personally, but

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S1: also with the business, like when we saw it come out,

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S1: we were like, we have to talk to you about

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S1: it because of how open you are in the book,

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S1: with your relationship with your body and everything that you've experienced.

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S1: And thank you for being so generous with that as

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S1: well in everything that you shared. Can we start with

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S1: today your earliest memory with your body?

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S3: Oh, yes. Oh, so I feel like I wasn't very

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S3: cognizant of, like, my figure necessarily when I was young,

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S3: but it was more my face, like the first thing

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S3: that I and I talk about this in the first

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S3: chapter of the book, like the first thing that I

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S3: realized was like, quote unquote wrong with me was my nose.

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S3: And that became like an obsession of mine. So it

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S3: started when I was In years, I think year 5

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S3: or 6 and someone came to our school to take

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S3: photos of us while we were like on the computer.

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S3: And I obviously wanted to be in the photo because I, like,

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S3: always wanted to be in the media. And I was like,

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S3: oh my God, someone is gonna like, see me and

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S3: cast me on neighbors, like, let's go. Can I wait?

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S1: That is literally everyone's brain. That was when we were.

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S1: That was also really? Yeah. That was. And I was like,

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S1: I'm so sorry to. But I remember when I would

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S1: go like to a different place, like another state and

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S1: I would be like walking, like I'm going to be

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S1: cast by something like, no, I'm not, I feel you. Yes.

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S1: I'm ready to be.

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S3: Discovered in the fucking, um. Oh, can I swear? Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Wait.

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S1: We'll do a swearing warning because I get it. Some

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S1: of our listeners listen around. They're sending some feedback about

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S1: the swearing, but sometimes we just have to use an

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S1: F word. Do you need to go for it? So

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S1: warning today, guys swear will be coming up. Yes.

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S3: Listen, I think I should, um, test myself to not

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S3: do it. Like, let's just say that's my one go.

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S3: And then from here on out, it's up to you.

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S3: It's going gonna be a test. Um, so this guy

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S3: came in and took photos of us for the local newspaper,

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S3: and I was in it, and we were like, obviously,

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S3: side on on these computers. And then the newspaper came

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S3: back to our house, and I was so excited to

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S3: see it. And I flicked through it. And then I

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S3: saw this photo and I was like, huh? That's not me.

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S3: I've got a big nose. Like, what the hell? I

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S3: didn't realize I have a big nose. And it just like,

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S3: I just remember that feeling of like, dread, like, oh,

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S3: I've got this thing now that I've got to worry about.

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S3: Because I didn't think that was what I looked like.

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S3: And then, um, I spoke to my mum about it

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S3: recently for the book, and she's like, oh no, that

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S3: wasn't the time that you worried about it. It was

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S3: the time you went to the hairdresser, which would have

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S3: been like a year later to, like, get, um, foils

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S3: or something. You know, when you're young and you get

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S3: your first little, like, quarter head foils. Best feeling ever.

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S3: And the hairdresser was like, oh, like, asked me my

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S3: nationality really randomly. And I'm pretty sure, pretty sure. She said,

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S3: what's your nasho? So, 2006. Wow. And I was just like, oh, like,

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S3: I don't know, just like British or whatever. And she's like, oh,

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S3: I thought you were like XYZ because you got a

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S3: big nose. And I said, sis, not the big nose allegations.

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S3: So I just like, held it all together. I just

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S3: wanted to cry the whole time and then got in

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S3: the car and just burst out in tears. And my

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S3: mum was like, that's when I knew you were going

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S3: to get a nose job. And there's like nothing that

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S3: I could do to change your mind. So that was, um,

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S3: good because I ended up getting it, like, what, six

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S3: years later? I got it when I was 17. So

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S3: that was kind of like a really big moment for me.

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S3: And I write about it in the book, like I

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S3: was very happy with it as soon as I came

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S3: out of the hospital so swollen. But I was like, yes,

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S3: I'm finally me again. I'm finally like, what I think

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S3: I need to look like and what I want to

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S3: look like.

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S2: And it's interesting because like, even with you, as you said,

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S2: with the side profile thing like that is we don't

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S2: all get a side profile shot of ourselves like it

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S2: does take until someone else takes a photo or you

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S2: see something like that. And it's why a lot of

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S2: people who get into TV and the media and stuff

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S2: like that, they start to grow all these insecurities about

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S2: themselves because they're suddenly seen on so many more angles

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S2: than they've ever shot of themselves before. And so I

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S2: can relate to that a lot. Um, you said in

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S2: your book that, as you said, you spoke to your

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S2: mom about it and that you then learnt about, like

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S2: the history in your family of women disliking their noses

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S2: and doing stuff about it. When you first became insecure

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S2: about it and were insecure about it and then got

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S2: the nose job, was it just because of those few

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S2: moments or had because the reason I'm bringing this up

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S2: and it's no absolutely no shade on your mum or

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S2: anyone in your family because it is undeniably common. And

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S2: we hear it all the time in our community. But

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S2: when you're insecure about something, it's so hard not to

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S2: talk about it, especially in front of people you love,

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S2: because you're like, open about it. But a lot of

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S2: people grew up with these insecurities because they hear people

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S2: close to them, or people that look like them speak

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S2: about these insecurities, and then they're like, oh, if you're

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S2: insecure about it, then like, of course I'm insecure about

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S2: it or Whatever. Did were you aware of their insecurities

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S2: when you were younger, or did you think you were

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S2: just isolated in this alone with your insecurity? It's just

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S2: something that you're going through. And it was a later

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S2: thing that you were like, oh, okay. So you all

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S2: didn't like your nose?

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S3: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's such a good question. Um, well,

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S3: I didn't know. So my grandma had a nose job,

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S3: which is so random because I had no idea. Probably. Yeah.

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S3: Until like quite a bit later, because she always had this, like,

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S3: little tiny tent nose. And also you don't really look

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S3: at what your grandparents look like. Yeah. You're not thinking

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S3: about it. Um, but then later on, I saw this

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S3: photo of her when she was probably my age now,

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S3: and she had quite like she had a really substantial nose, like,

220
00:10:17,490 --> 00:10:21,270
S3: a lot bigger than what mine was, naturally. Um, but, yeah,

221
00:10:21,270 --> 00:10:23,250
S3: that was never kind of discussed. Like no one was

222
00:10:23,250 --> 00:10:25,829
S3: ever self-conscious about the way they looked. Like, my mum

223
00:10:25,830 --> 00:10:28,500
S3: really tried so hard. And even when I kind of, like,

224
00:10:28,530 --> 00:10:31,079
S3: developed an eating disorder, she tried so hard to never

225
00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:35,370
S3: talk about. Like, I'm someone who ruminates. And part of

226
00:10:35,370 --> 00:10:36,720
S3: the way that I try and get through it is

227
00:10:36,750 --> 00:10:40,140
S3: like asking lots of reassuring questions. And so I'd constantly

228
00:10:40,140 --> 00:10:41,969
S3: be talking about my nose. Are you sure? Like, I

229
00:10:41,970 --> 00:10:43,110
S3: really want to get it done. Like, does it look

230
00:10:43,110 --> 00:10:44,490
S3: really big in this photo? This or that? And it

231
00:10:44,490 --> 00:10:47,010
S3: would just be this, like, loop that I couldn't get over.

232
00:10:47,010 --> 00:10:50,100
S3: And so she is like a very patient person and

233
00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:54,179
S3: would never, um, put a foot wrong, which is kind

234
00:10:54,210 --> 00:10:58,829
S3: of amazing. Like, she's a very, um, intelligent and very

235
00:10:58,830 --> 00:11:02,730
S3: considered person. Yeah. So I later found out as well

236
00:11:02,730 --> 00:11:04,260
S3: that she didn't like her nose. Like, we have the

237
00:11:04,260 --> 00:11:08,309
S3: same nose, naturally, but she didn't really have the means

238
00:11:08,309 --> 00:11:10,500
S3: when she was, you know, a young girl to get

239
00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:14,250
S3: it changed. But, yeah, it was funny to see on

240
00:11:14,250 --> 00:11:16,620
S3: my dad's side. It was his mom that got it changed.

241
00:11:16,620 --> 00:11:19,349
S3: And I found out through writing the book that my

242
00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:22,290
S3: mom's mom had all her teeth knocked out when she

243
00:11:22,290 --> 00:11:24,089
S3: was in her early 20s to get like, they did

244
00:11:24,090 --> 00:11:26,340
S3: that in the, uh, in the 40s. They could do

245
00:11:26,340 --> 00:11:28,320
S3: a thing called, like, the Hollywood smile. They'd knock out

246
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:29,190
S3: all your teeth. Oh my God.

247
00:11:29,220 --> 00:11:30,179
S2: And just start from scratch.

248
00:11:30,179 --> 00:11:33,360
S3: And just give you dentures, which is so bad because

249
00:11:33,390 --> 00:11:34,589
S3: then you have to wear dentures for the rest of

250
00:11:34,590 --> 00:11:36,870
S3: your life. Like you don't have teeth. Yeah. So there

251
00:11:36,870 --> 00:11:39,559
S3: was like, a lot of like really crazy. Both that

252
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,940
S3: and no show would have been really substantial in the 40s. 50s. Um,

253
00:11:43,940 --> 00:11:47,480
S3: but in terms of every single person in my family

254
00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,720
S3: has a big nose. Um, it's just like a thing,

255
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,059
S3: but I think, I don't think the insecurities were put

256
00:11:53,059 --> 00:11:54,890
S3: on me at all. I honestly think it was like

257
00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:56,300
S3: outside factors. Yeah.

258
00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:58,550
S2: And I think that's so special because like, and I've

259
00:11:58,550 --> 00:12:00,560
S2: brought this up before in the podcast is something that

260
00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,800
S2: I am so eternally grateful for in my mum as well,

261
00:12:03,830 --> 00:12:06,710
S2: is I didn't even know she had insecurities until I

262
00:12:06,710 --> 00:12:09,319
S2: went shopping with her one day in my 20s, and

263
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,060
S2: she was like looking for a dress for this event.

264
00:12:11,059 --> 00:12:13,400
S2: And she said something about it, wanting to cover the

265
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:14,750
S2: top of her arms or go at least to her

266
00:12:14,750 --> 00:12:16,610
S2: knees because she didn't like her thighs. And I was

267
00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:18,319
S2: so taken aback, like I was like, hang on. What? You.

268
00:12:18,350 --> 00:12:20,900
S2: You're insecure about your thighs as well, or like your arms.

269
00:12:21,050 --> 00:12:23,239
S2: And it was just for me. I look back at

270
00:12:23,270 --> 00:12:26,480
S2: that now and I'm so grateful because whilst in high school,

271
00:12:26,510 --> 00:12:29,060
S2: girls talk about it and like, you know, there's bitchiness

272
00:12:29,059 --> 00:12:30,679
S2: and stuff like that. And we had magazines back then

273
00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,650
S2: that we'd compare ourselves. And obviously now it's social media,

274
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,580
S2: at least in my home like. And as you said

275
00:12:36,580 --> 00:12:38,050
S2: in the conversations that I would have had with my

276
00:12:38,050 --> 00:12:41,230
S2: mom about my body, she I never heard her speaking

277
00:12:41,230 --> 00:12:43,929
S2: negatively about herself. So I think that's. Yeah, I mean,

278
00:12:43,929 --> 00:12:45,339
S2: it's not to say you obviously can still have the

279
00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:47,320
S2: insecurities as you did, but I think I do think

280
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,929
S2: it really helps that have that support and like not

281
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,630
S2: eat into it or feed into it even earlier.

282
00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:53,679
S3: Yeah, totally.

283
00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:54,010
S2: Mhm.

284
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,360
S1: Especially when navigating now like just the exposure we have

285
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,570
S1: to plastic surgery. Like it's something we speak about all

286
00:13:01,660 --> 00:13:04,930
S1: like the time on the podcast just around like Botox

287
00:13:04,929 --> 00:13:08,079
S1: and aging and all these things. And there's nothing like

288
00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:09,700
S1: what I think is amazing. I think in the past

289
00:13:09,730 --> 00:13:13,329
S1: kind of maybe five years, it's very much because I

290
00:13:13,330 --> 00:13:15,819
S1: feel like maybe five years ago people were like, Botox

291
00:13:15,820 --> 00:13:17,860
S1: is so bad. But now it's like people. When we

292
00:13:17,860 --> 00:13:20,170
S1: did a poll, people were like, just like whatever people

293
00:13:20,170 --> 00:13:22,360
S1: want to do for themselves. Like it's their prerogative. It's

294
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,050
S1: their body, it's their life. Totally agree with that. But

295
00:13:26,050 --> 00:13:28,690
S1: I think the other thing with plastic surgery is, and

296
00:13:28,690 --> 00:13:31,090
S1: I think with your story, because it was your personal

297
00:13:31,090 --> 00:13:34,830
S1: insecurity that you obviously felt more comfortable after you had it,

298
00:13:34,830 --> 00:13:37,230
S1: and that is your prerogative. And that is amazing. But

299
00:13:37,230 --> 00:13:40,500
S1: I think it's when it stems from other like for example,

300
00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:44,010
S1: with your story, do you feel that if that woman

301
00:13:44,010 --> 00:13:46,890
S1: that made that comment in the hairdressing salon, if you'd never, ever,

302
00:13:46,890 --> 00:13:49,050
S1: ever thought about your nose and then that became the

303
00:13:49,050 --> 00:13:52,470
S1: reason that you got it, that would be hard, right?

304
00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:54,540
S3: Yeah, totally. Yeah. And that's the thing that I write

305
00:13:54,540 --> 00:13:58,500
S3: about is the, like, um, insecurities that people put on you. Yeah.

306
00:13:58,530 --> 00:14:00,479
S3: And there's a great writer who's a friend of mine,

307
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,240
S3: and she wrote a piece for Refinery29, which was about,

308
00:14:03,270 --> 00:14:05,790
S3: I can't remember what she called it, like secondhand insecurities

309
00:14:05,790 --> 00:14:08,850
S3: or something. When someone comments something like, she was, um,

310
00:14:08,850 --> 00:14:11,790
S3: she says like of flat chest. And then someone would say, oh, like,

311
00:14:11,790 --> 00:14:14,459
S3: I love how, you know, and often it's dressed up

312
00:14:14,460 --> 00:14:16,320
S3: and the person's meaning it. Well, it's like, oh my God,

313
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,330
S3: it's so true. Yeah. Like, I love how you've got, like,

314
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,100
S3: a flat chest. Like so good. Like, people do it

315
00:14:20,100 --> 00:14:22,200
S3: with me about my boobs or like, I love how

316
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,960
S3: you've got, like, this or that. And I'm like, babe,

317
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,660
S3: I know you mean well, but just like it's this

318
00:14:27,660 --> 00:14:29,280
S3: is wrong on so many levels, but I'm just going

319
00:14:29,310 --> 00:14:34,950
S3: to let that slide with the plastic surgery stuff and

320
00:14:34,950 --> 00:14:37,680
S3: body modifications like I. Also, when I was 19, I

321
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:42,359
S3: got a breast augmentation, breast implants. And that I think

322
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,060
S3: was honestly because someone said to me again, when I

323
00:14:45,060 --> 00:14:47,640
S3: was at a pool party in high school, someone goes,

324
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,160
S3: oh my God, listen to your boobs are so asymmetrical.

325
00:14:50,460 --> 00:14:52,380
S3: And again, I went, what the fuck? Like, I had

326
00:14:52,380 --> 00:14:54,120
S3: no idea. I love my boobs. I had big boobs.

327
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,790
S3: I was like, yes, like, these are great. And then

328
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,160
S3: it started and I would look at my boobs from

329
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,920
S3: all different angles, from different mirrors, and I just couldn't

330
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,320
S3: get past it, so I felt like I had to

331
00:15:04,350 --> 00:15:08,040
S3: fix it. Got a major invasive surgery that I regret now.

332
00:15:08,070 --> 00:15:09,840
S3: And so for stuff like that, I think the no's

333
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:11,790
S3: definitely felt different for me because that, yeah.

334
00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:13,770
S1: You've had two totally different experiences, right?

335
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:15,930
S3: Yeah, yeah. And I think yeah, with the no's, it

336
00:15:15,930 --> 00:15:18,420
S3: was like, I'm not doing it to look like anyone else.

337
00:15:18,420 --> 00:15:19,710
S3: I'm doing it because I want to look like my

338
00:15:19,740 --> 00:15:22,620
S3: like child self. But then with the breast implants, that

339
00:15:22,620 --> 00:15:26,310
S3: was definitely something to try and appease. This perfection, perfection

340
00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:29,430
S3: and this like perceived gaze that I thought was omnipresent

341
00:15:29,430 --> 00:15:31,970
S3: around me when I just don't think I needed it

342
00:15:31,970 --> 00:15:33,140
S3: as a 19 year old girl.

343
00:15:33,740 --> 00:15:36,440
S1: We wanted to chat as well about your move from

344
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,300
S1: Melbourne to Sydney and if it's okay, I'm going to

345
00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:39,980
S1: read a little bit from your book.

346
00:15:40,010 --> 00:15:40,610
S3: Love it.

347
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,270
S1: So when you started working in the media, that's when

348
00:15:44,270 --> 00:15:47,540
S1: you moved from Melbourne to Sydney and when you started

349
00:15:47,540 --> 00:15:49,820
S1: doing video work and building a public profile, and you

350
00:15:49,820 --> 00:15:52,910
S1: wrote the border between New South Wales and Victoria was

351
00:15:52,910 --> 00:15:55,520
S1: a physical embodiment of the divorce of my new self

352
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,250
S1: from the old. If Melbourne me was stuck in a rut,

353
00:15:58,250 --> 00:16:01,880
S1: comfortable but coddled, binging and lonely, Sydney me was fresh

354
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,430
S1: and sparkly and happy to strut her way down Crown

355
00:16:04,430 --> 00:16:07,610
S1: Street in thigh high boots to buy groceries just because

356
00:16:07,610 --> 00:16:10,640
S1: she was driven and ready to take every opportunity. I

357
00:16:10,670 --> 00:16:14,810
S1: decided she was who I was destined to be. Can

358
00:16:14,810 --> 00:16:17,600
S1: you talk to us about this? And I think within

359
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,260
S1: that as well. Did you feel like you had to

360
00:16:21,290 --> 00:16:24,290
S1: change your body or yourself to be this version of

361
00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:27,140
S1: you that you felt like you were destined to be?

362
00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:33,340
S3: 100%. I always wanted to be like, cool. For me,

363
00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:35,500
S3: being skinny was being cool. It wasn't necessarily to be

364
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:38,230
S3: more sexually desirable, it was to fit this mold of

365
00:16:38,260 --> 00:16:40,930
S3: like the it girl who is the presenter and like

366
00:16:40,930 --> 00:16:43,150
S3: the channel V presenter. I had this very like particular

367
00:16:43,150 --> 00:16:45,160
S3: idea of what I wanted to be, and now that

368
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,710
S3: I had this opportunity, I thought, I have to take it.

369
00:16:47,710 --> 00:16:51,010
S3: I have to do this to give myself the best chance.

370
00:16:51,010 --> 00:16:53,470
S3: And I actually remember Steph, and you can tell me

371
00:16:53,470 --> 00:16:54,940
S3: if you don't want to talk about it. But when

372
00:16:54,940 --> 00:16:56,980
S3: I worked at pedestrian and I worked in the Melbourne office,

373
00:16:56,980 --> 00:16:59,950
S3: I interviewed you over the phone when you did, um,

374
00:17:00,070 --> 00:17:04,270
S3: the a YouTube like vlog about your experience with binge eating. Yeah.

375
00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:06,520
S3: And I'll never forget it. I still have your number.

376
00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:08,620
S2: I love it, it's still the same.

377
00:17:08,650 --> 00:17:11,200
S3: It's still the same. Yeah, I've considered some prank calls,

378
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,899
S3: but I always stop myself because you seem really nice,

379
00:17:13,900 --> 00:17:16,300
S3: so I wouldn't do it to you. But the urge

380
00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:18,820
S3: has been there. Just so you know, um, and I

381
00:17:18,820 --> 00:17:23,050
S3: remember writing about that, and I actually remember the comments

382
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:27,060
S3: on the post, and some of them were like. you know,

383
00:17:27,090 --> 00:17:29,460
S3: because you spoke about I remember you spoke about like,

384
00:17:29,460 --> 00:17:33,390
S3: peanut butter and we won't go into the details, but

385
00:17:33,390 --> 00:17:35,550
S3: I remember some comments being like, oh yeah, like that's

386
00:17:35,550 --> 00:17:38,490
S3: a binge. Like that's healthy food. Like people were fucking like,

387
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:39,179
S3: oh sorry, sorry.

388
00:17:39,210 --> 00:17:40,320
S2: No you can't. Um.

389
00:17:41,010 --> 00:17:43,800
S3: From someone I was experiencing it at the same time. Yeah.

390
00:17:43,950 --> 00:17:47,700
S3: And so it was like very it was a big

391
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:51,480
S3: deal to interview you for it and to hear your experience.

392
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,060
S3: And someone who was going through it. It was very

393
00:17:54,060 --> 00:17:55,469
S3: obvious to me in the video that you knew what

394
00:17:55,470 --> 00:17:57,810
S3: it was like. But for people, obviously, who didn't know

395
00:17:57,810 --> 00:17:59,220
S3: what it's like, they see you as a model and

396
00:17:59,220 --> 00:18:02,130
S3: this very, like aspirational person and they're like, oh, like,

397
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,190
S3: there's no way that you actually know what it's like. Um,

398
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:06,629
S3: so I thought that was really brave of you. And

399
00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:09,000
S3: I thought that was like a very important conversation and

400
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,430
S3: would have been so hard and stuff like that helps

401
00:18:11,430 --> 00:18:13,649
S3: when I write the book, because I'll always remember that

402
00:18:13,650 --> 00:18:16,200
S3: as a kind of like a brave thing to do.

403
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,449
S3: But in terms of and that was when I was

404
00:18:18,450 --> 00:18:22,470
S3: in Melbourne. Um, so coming off the back of that

405
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:24,859
S3: and moving to Sydney, it did really feel like this

406
00:18:24,859 --> 00:18:30,470
S3: whole new sparkly city and I'd always, like, had this weird, um,

407
00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:34,010
S3: affinity to Sydney because of the 2000 Olympics. I remember

408
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,199
S3: as a kid being like, whoa. Sydney's like such a

409
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:36,950
S3: big deal.

410
00:18:36,980 --> 00:18:41,179
S2: There's animals there. Like the cartoon animals. Yeah, I love that.

411
00:18:41,570 --> 00:18:44,239
S3: So, yeah, it was kind of like this very exciting

412
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,820
S3: moment that I felt like I had to capitalize on.

413
00:18:46,820 --> 00:18:49,159
S3: And I think people get it, even with, like, shredding

414
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,560
S3: for weddings and, like, doing all that stuff, you're trying

415
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,170
S3: to deliver yourself to this person who you think will

416
00:18:54,170 --> 00:18:56,780
S3: be really happy, and then you get it and you realize,

417
00:18:56,780 --> 00:19:00,169
S3: oh shit, I got to like, maintain it now. Mhm. Yeah.

418
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:01,580
S1: And how much did it did it bring. Because I

419
00:19:01,580 --> 00:19:03,560
S1: think it's so true. And I think we think that

420
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,170
S1: especially in like we speak about this a lot with weddings.

421
00:19:06,170 --> 00:19:08,330
S1: It kills me because I think and it's why with

422
00:19:08,330 --> 00:19:11,150
S1: cake we never do before and after photos. Because if

423
00:19:11,180 --> 00:19:15,680
S1: you have deprived yourself and, you know, starved yourself and

424
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,860
S1: it's obviously not sustainable starving ourselves and we can't actually

425
00:19:18,890 --> 00:19:21,320
S1: set we all have a healthy weight range point. We

426
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,440
S1: can't say it's scientifically impossible to bring it back. You

427
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,260
S1: have to always be in starvation mode, which is unsustainable. Right.

428
00:19:27,290 --> 00:19:29,240
S1: And not not an enjoyable life. And I would love

429
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,609
S1: to talk to you about that, but I think we

430
00:19:31,609 --> 00:19:35,630
S1: think that it's going to solve everything for us. And

431
00:19:35,630 --> 00:19:38,330
S1: all it does is gives us a photo of ourselves.

432
00:19:38,330 --> 00:19:40,850
S1: And we're not only then just comparing ourselves to everyone else,

433
00:19:40,850 --> 00:19:44,300
S1: but we're comparing ourselves to this. After photo of where

434
00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:48,710
S1: we were smaller and society accepted us better, or whatever

435
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:52,100
S1: it may be, that actually is totally unsustainable for us.

436
00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:53,690
S1: But I feel like if you've got there, it makes

437
00:19:53,690 --> 00:19:56,090
S1: it easier because then you think like your self-talk is like, well,

438
00:19:56,090 --> 00:19:59,300
S1: I've been there before. Like, why can't I get there again, right?

439
00:19:59,330 --> 00:20:00,439
S3: Yes, yes.

440
00:20:00,470 --> 00:20:03,620
S1: At what point did it go from being kind of like, oh,

441
00:20:03,650 --> 00:20:06,020
S1: I'm doing this so I can be more successful in

442
00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:10,100
S1: my career to I actually have an eating disorder. And

443
00:20:10,100 --> 00:20:12,470
S1: this is starting to really like where did it get.

444
00:20:12,740 --> 00:20:14,630
S1: It's really hard because it's all gray, isn't it, in

445
00:20:14,660 --> 00:20:15,859
S1: that space in between.

446
00:20:15,890 --> 00:20:18,889
S3: It can be gray, but there's definitely like certain instances.

447
00:20:18,890 --> 00:20:21,760
S3: You guys are so good at questions. I'm loving this.

448
00:20:21,790 --> 00:20:23,920
S1: I just as I was asking you that, I was like,

449
00:20:23,950 --> 00:20:26,350
S1: is this a question? I double barreled them too much

450
00:20:26,380 --> 00:20:28,270
S1: and then I'm like, no. I think it's also.

451
00:20:28,270 --> 00:20:30,190
S2: When we're talking about things like disordered eating and body

452
00:20:30,190 --> 00:20:33,159
S2: image issues, like we battle with having so much to

453
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:35,950
S2: say at the same time as asking the questions. Yeah.

454
00:20:35,980 --> 00:20:42,129
S3: No, I love it. Um, for me, I realized that

455
00:20:42,130 --> 00:20:45,340
S3: it was a problem. Probably. Well, because yeah, for the

456
00:20:45,340 --> 00:20:49,270
S3: first few months it was amazing. Like, people were giving

457
00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:52,150
S3: me so many compliments. I was this vision of myself

458
00:20:52,150 --> 00:20:56,649
S3: when I was, you know, um, the Sydney, Sydney me

459
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,619
S3: was being created and work was really busy. I was

460
00:20:59,619 --> 00:21:02,080
S3: getting these amazing opportunities going on these overseas trips to

461
00:21:02,109 --> 00:21:04,689
S3: interview people. So there was this kind of like momentum

462
00:21:04,690 --> 00:21:07,270
S3: that made it easier to be hungry, because I was

463
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:10,119
S3: hungry in so many ways, and I was living out

464
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,220
S3: of home. So I for the first time and kind

465
00:21:12,220 --> 00:21:15,940
S3: of like creating my own rules. But I probably knew. Yeah,

466
00:21:15,970 --> 00:21:19,690
S3: as you say, Laura, like it was gray. But there

467
00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:21,880
S3: were moments that I realized I'd clicked over, which was

468
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,290
S3: like I would feel really faint or like I'd like

469
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,440
S3: there would be some physical symptoms. And it was when

470
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,230
S3: I kind of felt like I stopped going to like

471
00:21:32,260 --> 00:21:35,620
S3: social things, or I had to eat a certain thing.

472
00:21:35,650 --> 00:21:37,239
S3: I had to eat this thing every day, and if

473
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,400
S3: I didn't have it, I'd be frustrated. Like, it kind

474
00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:43,030
S3: of had a lot of similarities to, again, like anxiety

475
00:21:43,030 --> 00:21:45,640
S3: and that need for reassurance. But it had morphed into

476
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:52,209
S3: this eating disorder element. Um, but even, you know, I

477
00:21:52,210 --> 00:21:55,030
S3: was always like, cognizant of what I looked like and

478
00:21:55,030 --> 00:21:56,439
S3: what I had to do to do it. I would

479
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,629
S3: just tell people I was on a diet and for

480
00:21:58,630 --> 00:22:00,610
S3: the most part, like working in an office, people would

481
00:22:00,609 --> 00:22:02,500
S3: always be complimenting me, being like, how do you eat

482
00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:05,830
S3: that every day? Like, you've got such amazing willpower or

483
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:08,410
S3: I love your outfits. Like, you always look so cool.

484
00:22:08,410 --> 00:22:13,360
S3: And so I was constantly, um, yeah, reassured or like validation.

485
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,130
S2: People know about me or hear it like I completely

486
00:22:16,130 --> 00:22:16,610
S2: relate to that.

487
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,389
S3: Yeah, like it became me. Yeah. That's me. But in

488
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:22,100
S3: terms of. Yeah, when I knew that it had fully

489
00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:26,540
S3: clicked over, probably like maybe a year in, I want

490
00:22:26,570 --> 00:22:28,790
S3: to say, but then it took me another few years

491
00:22:28,790 --> 00:22:30,859
S3: to actually want to change. Mhm.

492
00:22:31,220 --> 00:22:34,700
S2: Yeah. It's so true isn't it. Because I remember when

493
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:38,270
S2: for me I started picking up like patterns of restrictive

494
00:22:38,270 --> 00:22:41,179
S2: eating and binge eating. It was at the start I

495
00:22:41,180 --> 00:22:42,980
S2: was like doing nothing wrong in my mind, like I

496
00:22:42,980 --> 00:22:46,550
S2: was just being healthy and I was almost like trying

497
00:22:46,550 --> 00:22:48,800
S2: to influence my mum in, like being more conscious of

498
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,840
S2: what she was eating or like how she prepared our

499
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,630
S2: food at home and whatever. And it got exacerbated when

500
00:22:53,630 --> 00:22:55,460
S2: I then moved overseas and was on my own, because

501
00:22:55,460 --> 00:22:56,869
S2: then there was like no one else to kind of

502
00:22:56,900 --> 00:23:00,169
S2: like pull me into reality. Um, but yeah, at the

503
00:23:00,170 --> 00:23:03,080
S2: start I didn't. I was so in it that I

504
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,850
S2: thought it was the right thing to be doing, and

505
00:23:04,850 --> 00:23:07,280
S2: it wasn't until I had some kind of, as you said,

506
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:12,080
S2: there's like moments through the gray area that you remember, um,

507
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,369
S2: that made me realise that, like, what I was doing

508
00:23:14,369 --> 00:23:18,119
S2: was not sustainable, I was not happy, and I was

509
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,280
S2: probably never going to be happy. And so like, what

510
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,650
S2: am I going to do now? Like, and I missed

511
00:23:22,650 --> 00:23:25,920
S2: this kind of relationship that I once had with both

512
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,430
S2: my body and food. And so I wonder for you

513
00:23:29,790 --> 00:23:33,270
S2: because I know in the book you said when you

514
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:36,270
S2: passed out and when you came to, I was spaced

515
00:23:36,270 --> 00:23:40,350
S2: out but secretly pleased. So I'd love to know that

516
00:23:40,350 --> 00:23:44,219
S2: transition between, like, as you said, that getting that external

517
00:23:44,220 --> 00:23:47,220
S2: validation from other people or feeling like you're actually yeah,

518
00:23:47,250 --> 00:23:52,380
S2: you're getting to your goal to then realizing, as you said, that, okay,

519
00:23:52,410 --> 00:23:55,740
S2: this is not healthy. And I know that that takes

520
00:23:55,740 --> 00:23:57,750
S2: years to kind of build through those habits and stuff

521
00:23:57,750 --> 00:24:02,340
S2: like that. But what when was it that you realized

522
00:24:02,340 --> 00:24:06,270
S2: certain things were a problem or like something to to change? Like,

523
00:24:06,270 --> 00:24:08,820
S2: was there did you talk to someone else about it?

524
00:24:08,850 --> 00:24:11,430
S2: Was it someone else saying like, yeah, you're right, this

525
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:14,380
S2: is this is a bit different to like maybe following

526
00:24:14,380 --> 00:24:17,800
S2: some sort of diet diet that is sustainable. This is

527
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,889
S2: actually quite obsessive. Did you talk to someone? What was it?

528
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,629
S2: What was the thing that, like helped you change it

529
00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:23,800
S2: and change those habits?

530
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:28,450
S3: Yes. So funny about becoming, like, evangelical about food. Like,

531
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,090
S3: I would also, like, tell people I'd be like, no, like,

532
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:32,560
S3: I would tell my mum. I would give her all

533
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,090
S3: these tips of like, no, no, no, now do this,

534
00:24:34,090 --> 00:24:37,390
S3: do this. But there's like a very clear and I

535
00:24:37,420 --> 00:24:40,870
S3: write about this in the book, going to a cycle,

536
00:24:40,900 --> 00:24:43,570
S3: going to a psychiatrist because I felt so depressed and

537
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,480
S3: like just so this is probably, yeah, a year and

538
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,580
S3: a bit into being in Sydney, maybe even a year,

539
00:24:48,580 --> 00:24:50,320
S3: almost to the dot of moving to Sydney.

540
00:24:50,350 --> 00:24:53,020
S1: Was your work still very busy? Yes. Okay. So at

541
00:24:53,020 --> 00:24:55,690
S1: this point your work is busy. You've still got everyone

542
00:24:55,690 --> 00:24:58,480
S1: around you, is complimenting you, telling you you have great willpower.

543
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,790
S1: Telling you you look hot, you look in the mirror,

544
00:25:00,820 --> 00:25:02,169
S1: you love what you see.

545
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:03,100
S2: But you're not happy.

546
00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:03,550
S1: But you're not.

547
00:25:03,550 --> 00:25:08,020
S3: Happy. Not happy. Yeah. And it was this, like real emptiness.

548
00:25:08,020 --> 00:25:10,260
S3: And I'd experienced it before. When I was younger, I'd

549
00:25:10,260 --> 00:25:14,340
S3: go through all these, like, periods, like, um, episodes of, um,

550
00:25:14,369 --> 00:25:17,609
S3: you know, feeling like, really down. But this felt it

551
00:25:17,609 --> 00:25:21,000
S3: didn't necessarily. Yeah. No, it felt different because previously, when

552
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,540
S3: I'd felt really down, I wasn't doing anything physically to

553
00:25:24,570 --> 00:25:27,660
S3: make it a thing, whereas this was like there was

554
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:31,380
S3: feeling really down. And also I was really hungry, but

555
00:25:31,380 --> 00:25:32,609
S3: I didn't put two and two together. So I went

556
00:25:32,609 --> 00:25:35,850
S3: to the psychiatrist, gave her all of my symptoms, told

557
00:25:35,850 --> 00:25:38,520
S3: her my family history. And I think when you have

558
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,820
S3: a family history of like certain disorders, um, there's like

559
00:25:41,850 --> 00:25:46,230
S3: a very clear through line for experts sometimes. And she,

560
00:25:46,650 --> 00:25:50,370
S3: you know, diagnosed me with something and left the room

561
00:25:50,369 --> 00:25:52,830
S3: to go get the script for the medication. And I

562
00:25:52,830 --> 00:25:55,260
S3: was so excited. I was like, yay! Like, I'm going

563
00:25:55,260 --> 00:25:57,060
S3: to get medication. I can stay the way I am.

564
00:25:57,060 --> 00:26:00,600
S3: I'm just not going to be depressed anymore. And then the, um, intern,

565
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,310
S3: there was an intern in the room and she leant

566
00:26:02,310 --> 00:26:03,989
S3: over and she was like, hey, I actually think you

567
00:26:03,990 --> 00:26:09,199
S3: might have anorexia. And I was like, oh, yeah. Like, um,

568
00:26:09,230 --> 00:26:12,109
S3: I just kind of like, I didn't take that as, oh,

569
00:26:12,140 --> 00:26:14,900
S3: that's a problem to fix. I was like, I'm killing it. Like,

570
00:26:14,930 --> 00:26:18,080
S3: you think that I. Okay, I look unwell enough now that, like.

571
00:26:18,109 --> 00:26:18,830
S2: Yeah, I look skinny enough.

572
00:26:18,859 --> 00:26:22,070
S3: I look skinny enough. Skinny legend. But I thought that

573
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:25,760
S3: was interesting how you can fall through the cracks so

574
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,139
S3: many times. It doesn't matter. I was going to, like,

575
00:26:27,170 --> 00:26:30,860
S3: a leading expert in, um, you know, like, mood disorders,

576
00:26:30,859 --> 00:26:34,460
S3: like depression. And she just saw it as something else

577
00:26:34,460 --> 00:26:37,400
S3: and didn't take into account what I think would have

578
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,000
S3: been quite clear for someone who is an expert in

579
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,250
S3: eating disorders. But there just aren't that many people who

580
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:44,690
S3: are experts. Mhm.

581
00:26:47,570 --> 00:26:48,560
S4: One, two three.

582
00:26:49,130 --> 00:26:52,219
S2: When was it that it wasn't like I'm killing it anymore,

583
00:26:52,250 --> 00:26:54,800
S2: like I can't live like this anymore. What was that

584
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:55,640
S2: point for you?

585
00:26:55,910 --> 00:27:01,520
S3: I think it actually kind of like it. I came

586
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,889
S3: out of the really restrictive eating disorder kind of in

587
00:27:03,890 --> 00:27:08,090
S3: a positive way. It was 2020. Um, Mhm. And it

588
00:27:08,090 --> 00:27:11,210
S3: was probably I can pinpoint it to November 2020. I

589
00:27:11,210 --> 00:27:14,210
S3: had still been restricting but I kind of like really

590
00:27:14,210 --> 00:27:17,090
S3: flourished into this friendship group in my local area, like

591
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,250
S3: people that I'd known from high school and like other people.

592
00:27:19,250 --> 00:27:21,889
S3: And I got into this relationship with someone and it

593
00:27:21,890 --> 00:27:24,350
S3: was the first relationship I'd ever had where the person

594
00:27:24,350 --> 00:27:26,870
S3: was my age, and it was really, like respectful and fun,

595
00:27:26,869 --> 00:27:29,810
S3: and we just had so much fun together. And that

596
00:27:29,810 --> 00:27:33,709
S3: was a time when kind of like, I was learning

597
00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:35,510
S3: how to have less rules because I wanted to hang

598
00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:37,640
S3: out with this person, and I knew that it wasn't

599
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,470
S3: about the way I looked like we just liked hanging

600
00:27:39,470 --> 00:27:41,209
S3: out with each other. And again, I think it was

601
00:27:41,210 --> 00:27:43,459
S3: the first time where I felt like in the presence

602
00:27:43,460 --> 00:27:46,940
S3: of a man, like, I wasn't trying to be this, like,

603
00:27:46,970 --> 00:27:50,330
S3: pretty princess. I was just having fun with this person.

604
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,520
S3: So that was a really crucial part of it, of

605
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,820
S3: coming out while also, you know, I think that eating

606
00:27:55,820 --> 00:27:58,129
S3: disorders are a habit. And I think in order to

607
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,080
S3: break the habit, you have to do things physically to

608
00:28:00,109 --> 00:28:03,260
S3: break a habit like smoking or like gambling or any

609
00:28:03,260 --> 00:28:06,970
S3: other kind of addiction. So there was probably that. But

610
00:28:06,970 --> 00:28:11,590
S3: then that slowly morphed into binge eating. And that's when

611
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:13,389
S3: I really decided I needed to get help because I

612
00:28:13,390 --> 00:28:15,520
S3: was gaining weight. So I think that's also something to

613
00:28:15,550 --> 00:28:18,220
S3: note is like the time when I realized I need

614
00:28:18,220 --> 00:28:20,980
S3: a third party professional help with this wasn't when I

615
00:28:20,980 --> 00:28:23,980
S3: was restricting, it was when I was no longer reaping

616
00:28:23,980 --> 00:28:25,780
S3: the benefits of being a certain weight.

617
00:28:25,810 --> 00:28:28,600
S2: Yeah, because I feel like the difference is like because

618
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,060
S2: when I was binge eating, I had no self-control. Like

619
00:28:31,090 --> 00:28:33,369
S2: I thought I did. And I would, like, try and

620
00:28:33,369 --> 00:28:35,830
S2: control everything that I was eating, but I had no

621
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:38,680
S2: control of how much and how often and how late

622
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,180
S2: into the night it would happen, and then how bad

623
00:28:40,180 --> 00:28:42,970
S2: I would feel about it. Whereas like when you're kind

624
00:28:42,970 --> 00:28:46,510
S2: of restricting and starving yourself, it is almost like the

625
00:28:46,540 --> 00:28:49,150
S2: and what a lot of people go into it thinking

626
00:28:49,150 --> 00:28:50,680
S2: and feeling is like, this is the one element of

627
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,020
S2: my life I can control. So that would have been

628
00:28:53,020 --> 00:28:56,200
S2: quite a shift to go from one kind of disordered

629
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,780
S2: eating to the other. And I can understand. And it

630
00:28:58,780 --> 00:29:00,640
S2: is it's sad in a way that it was like

631
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,900
S2: gaining weight and everything that was like, okay, something rather

632
00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:05,760
S2: than looking skinny. But I think that just goes to

633
00:29:05,790 --> 00:29:09,870
S2: show that society likes us better when we're smaller. And like,

634
00:29:09,870 --> 00:29:12,450
S2: maybe when you were gaining weight, this like fear of

635
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:14,489
S2: something happening with your job or whatever, and this is

636
00:29:14,490 --> 00:29:16,920
S2: me assuming. So please correct me if I'm wrong, but yeah,

637
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:18,810
S2: your weight changing in any way or whatever. It's like

638
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:20,550
S2: now there's a problem. Yes.

639
00:29:20,550 --> 00:29:25,410
S3: Yeah, yeah. And now. Yeah. Exactly. Everything that you said,

640
00:29:25,410 --> 00:29:29,010
S3: it was like, Now I'm losing this thing that I want.

641
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,900
S3: And I still, you know, I was a lot happier,

642
00:29:30,900 --> 00:29:32,910
S3: but there was still elements of me that did feel

643
00:29:32,910 --> 00:29:35,700
S3: that kind of like hopelessness sometimes. So I was thinking,

644
00:29:35,700 --> 00:29:38,370
S3: I'm going to go back to how ups, how, you know,

645
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,710
S3: down and hopeless I was when I was really skinny,

646
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:43,680
S3: but now I'm going to be not really skinny. And,

647
00:29:43,710 --> 00:29:47,700
S3: you know, I was still really, um, conflated looking a

648
00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:50,490
S3: certain way to being successful in this job, and that

649
00:29:50,490 --> 00:29:54,780
S3: wasn't going anywhere. Um, and yeah, I think it's definitely

650
00:29:54,780 --> 00:29:56,700
S3: got that element of drive to it. And when you

651
00:29:56,700 --> 00:30:00,979
S3: are binge eating, you feel so bad about yourself. Like

652
00:30:00,980 --> 00:30:05,959
S3: it's just this really deep disgust and yeah, feeling of

653
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,810
S3: a lack of control. And that was it's also like

654
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,300
S3: very physically draining. Like the next day it's like coming

655
00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:12,830
S3: out of a migraine the next day. Like you kind

656
00:30:12,860 --> 00:30:17,150
S3: of shot like. And it's just the cycle repeats. So yeah,

657
00:30:17,150 --> 00:30:18,650
S3: that was that was hard.

658
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:22,160
S1: Oh thank you for sharing that. It it means a

659
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,530
S1: lot and I think for so I just it's as

660
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,870
S1: kind of Steph called out. But it is it's really

661
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:29,270
S1: fucking hard that we just have so much pressure on

662
00:30:29,270 --> 00:30:32,300
S1: ourselves to be smaller. And it's just why it's so

663
00:30:32,300 --> 00:30:36,650
S1: important to not comment on people's bodies, because it's just

664
00:30:36,650 --> 00:30:41,030
S1: the fact that you are probably mentally like obviously going

665
00:30:41,030 --> 00:30:45,320
S1: through disordered eating in both instances, one just presented differently,

666
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,660
S1: but it just sucks that the only time you were

667
00:30:47,660 --> 00:30:49,550
S1: able to want to do something about it, and that's

668
00:30:49,550 --> 00:30:51,890
S1: not you, that's just the way that society makes us feel,

669
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,670
S1: is when your weight was going up instead of down.

670
00:30:56,390 --> 00:30:59,360
S1: And it's why eating disorders are just so hard to

671
00:30:59,390 --> 00:31:02,750
S1: work through. In your book, you wrote about an instance

672
00:31:02,750 --> 00:31:06,980
S1: where you were backpacking with two friends that were naturally

673
00:31:07,010 --> 00:31:10,580
S1: a smaller size than you were. How old were you

674
00:31:10,610 --> 00:31:12,230
S1: when that happened?

675
00:31:12,260 --> 00:31:13,940
S3: Um, 21. 21.

676
00:31:13,970 --> 00:31:15,680
S1: Okay, so that was before.

677
00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:18,170
S3: That was when it had. That's when I had started.

678
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,970
S3: Kind of. That was around the time I would have

679
00:31:19,970 --> 00:31:24,590
S3: interviewed you, Steph. So I'd started, uh, binging and purging

680
00:31:24,590 --> 00:31:26,810
S3: at that stage, but I wasn't. I was dieting like

681
00:31:26,810 --> 00:31:31,160
S3: I was doing the, um, prepackaged, calorie controlled meal situation,

682
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,320
S3: but I didn't consider it an eating disorder yet. That

683
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,600
S3: was kind of just more disordered eating. Yeah.

684
00:31:35,630 --> 00:31:37,700
S1: I think I wanted to talk about this because I

685
00:31:37,700 --> 00:31:41,900
S1: think as I was reading your words around, it's so

686
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,060
S1: because those friends like, I don't know if they spoke

687
00:31:44,060 --> 00:31:46,130
S1: about food or if they didn't. I'm kind of guessing,

688
00:31:46,130 --> 00:31:47,900
S1: by the way, you wrote. They didn't because they didn't really.

689
00:31:47,930 --> 00:31:51,020
S1: It didn't they weren't taken over by food thoughts or

690
00:31:51,020 --> 00:31:52,760
S1: they just lived their life. Right. And they happen to

691
00:31:52,790 --> 00:31:56,030
S1: look like we're all genetically so different. And some people

692
00:31:56,030 --> 00:31:58,570
S1: will be able to eat whatever they want. Our bodies

693
00:31:58,570 --> 00:32:02,020
S1: are just so different, right? But I think that's something

694
00:32:02,020 --> 00:32:05,620
S1: that is can be a really big trigger. And it's

695
00:32:05,650 --> 00:32:08,140
S1: actually really and it's amazing that they didn't really speak

696
00:32:08,140 --> 00:32:11,080
S1: about it. But I was um, I we've both been

697
00:32:11,110 --> 00:32:13,090
S1: like Steph and I obviously on a journey with our bodies.

698
00:32:13,090 --> 00:32:16,450
S1: And I think it's something that working out that your

699
00:32:16,450 --> 00:32:19,990
S1: body is not the biggest value add to society. Like

700
00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:22,720
S1: it's the least interesting thing about us is very hard

701
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,700
S1: and it's a journey. And I still I feel like

702
00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:27,100
S1: I felt like I was there. And then there was

703
00:32:27,100 --> 00:32:30,070
S1: an instance that happened recently where I was around people

704
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:33,670
S1: that spoke about their bodies for like for quite a

705
00:32:33,670 --> 00:32:38,020
S1: long period in a row. And I started getting thoughts back.

706
00:32:38,020 --> 00:32:41,950
S1: And it's just the impact of, of other people and

707
00:32:41,950 --> 00:32:44,709
S1: that language around us. And I do think it's something that,

708
00:32:44,740 --> 00:32:47,410
S1: like you and I wanted to ask you, did you

709
00:32:47,410 --> 00:32:50,560
S1: have to like in your friendship groups around you, like,

710
00:32:50,590 --> 00:32:53,680
S1: do you still get triggered by people talking about their

711
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,040
S1: bodies and have you chosen people that don't talk about it? Like,

712
00:32:57,070 --> 00:32:59,290
S1: how have you navigated that? Because I think that is

713
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,110
S1: it's really hard and it's not anyone's fault because it's

714
00:33:02,140 --> 00:33:04,540
S1: we're conditioned to talk about our bodies all the time.

715
00:33:04,570 --> 00:33:06,370
S2: They're obviously going through their own thing too. But it just.

716
00:33:06,370 --> 00:33:08,650
S1: Again, it's like that second hand insecurity it makes. Well,

717
00:33:08,650 --> 00:33:11,380
S1: if you're like if someone's talking about how they're worried

718
00:33:11,380 --> 00:33:13,900
S1: about bloating and what their tummy looks like and they're

719
00:33:13,900 --> 00:33:16,900
S1: two sizes smaller than you. Fuck. I should be thinking

720
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,450
S1: about that, right? Like, that's it's one of those things

721
00:33:19,450 --> 00:33:21,190
S1: like it just comes back in. So how have you

722
00:33:21,220 --> 00:33:23,620
S1: navigated that, like in your recovery?

723
00:33:23,650 --> 00:33:27,070
S3: Yes. So now as a fully recovered person, I don't

724
00:33:27,070 --> 00:33:29,500
S3: get triggered by anything. Oh, amazing. I really don't. Which

725
00:33:29,530 --> 00:33:31,600
S3: is crazy to me now. Like would have been crazy

726
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,390
S3: to me years ago. Like, I've got friends now that

727
00:33:34,420 --> 00:33:36,670
S3: are always talking about wanting to like shred for going

728
00:33:36,670 --> 00:33:39,130
S3: overseas and stuff and it doesn't affect me, but I

729
00:33:39,130 --> 00:33:41,530
S3: can see I sometimes get a flashback to what I

730
00:33:41,530 --> 00:33:43,270
S3: would have been like a few years ago, and I

731
00:33:43,270 --> 00:33:44,920
S3: was like, oh, that would have been like deeply triggering

732
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,220
S3: for me. There was like, I really think it's so

733
00:33:48,220 --> 00:33:50,860
S3: powerful to be around, and this is hard. It's circumstantial,

734
00:33:50,860 --> 00:33:53,210
S3: but to be around people who don't think about food

735
00:33:53,210 --> 00:33:55,700
S3: in their bodies, and especially people who are like a

736
00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:58,550
S3: diverse range of sizes. You know, if you're around someone

737
00:33:58,550 --> 00:34:01,610
S3: who society thinks should be smaller and they're not worried

738
00:34:01,610 --> 00:34:03,800
S3: about it, that's so freeing. And I think those people

739
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,070
S3: deserve a medal because it's so unusual. And I know

740
00:34:07,070 --> 00:34:10,700
S3: that it probably would take work or, you know, or

741
00:34:10,850 --> 00:34:13,399
S3: I guess, yeah, some people just are never hit with

742
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,110
S3: the disordered eating stick. Um, but I think definitely it

743
00:34:18,110 --> 00:34:23,569
S3: does make a difference when someone's going through recovery. I

744
00:34:23,570 --> 00:34:25,910
S3: think people should really be careful about the way that

745
00:34:25,910 --> 00:34:27,710
S3: they speak about their body, because you do take it

746
00:34:27,710 --> 00:34:30,920
S3: all in when you're going through something like that, especially

747
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,680
S3: even when you're going through therapy. Even then, you have

748
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,540
S3: to think about it all the time to get through it.

749
00:34:35,540 --> 00:34:38,480
S3: It's like homework. And so it is very easy to

750
00:34:38,510 --> 00:34:41,420
S3: like the comment about the secondhand. Yeah, like the nose

751
00:34:41,420 --> 00:34:43,759
S3: or this or that. Just know that when you're around

752
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,910
S3: someone who you think might be experiencing or experiencing an

753
00:34:46,910 --> 00:34:50,000
S3: eating disorder, they're taking in all the information their brain

754
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,650
S3: is hardwired to find any instance of talking about bodies.

755
00:34:53,650 --> 00:34:55,360
S3: And it's like when you have a crush and you're like,

756
00:34:55,390 --> 00:34:57,640
S3: in Limerence you want to ask me about it?

757
00:34:57,670 --> 00:34:58,450
S2: Yeah. Yeah.

758
00:34:58,900 --> 00:35:04,120
S3: Yeah. Literally someone asks you. Yeah. Um, so, yeah, I

759
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,670
S3: think it's I talk about it in the book as well,

760
00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:08,950
S3: fat talk and how when you're kind of like going

761
00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:11,380
S3: out to going, getting ready to go out and stuff

762
00:35:11,380 --> 00:35:13,420
S3: like that, if you know, you can be in friendship

763
00:35:13,420 --> 00:35:16,090
S3: groups where it is really normalized. I'm lucky at the

764
00:35:16,090 --> 00:35:19,959
S3: moment that I'm not in that. Um, but definitely growing

765
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,400
S3: up in, in high school and when I hang out

766
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,239
S3: with friends from like a past life, I'm like, oh, damn,

767
00:35:25,390 --> 00:35:27,549
S3: people still really do talk like this. I'm kind of

768
00:35:27,580 --> 00:35:30,100
S3: in this echo chamber now, but it's definitely still a thing.

769
00:35:30,130 --> 00:35:32,920
S2: Obviously, I think it's fantastic, and it would be so

770
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,160
S2: good for everyone listening that maybe, you know, maybe they're

771
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,980
S2: in the depths of something right now to hear you

772
00:35:38,980 --> 00:35:41,080
S2: say that you're in a place now where you can

773
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,690
S2: remember what it was like, but you're not necessarily triggered.

774
00:35:44,170 --> 00:35:46,720
S2: It would be so powerful for them. And I want

775
00:35:46,750 --> 00:35:48,370
S2: to know that when you were in the depths of

776
00:35:48,370 --> 00:35:50,890
S2: it all, especially because you'd kind of gone from like

777
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:56,020
S2: full restrictive, you know, anorexia to then binge eating and everything.

778
00:35:56,290 --> 00:35:58,330
S2: Could you see yourself ever coming out of it, or

779
00:35:58,330 --> 00:36:00,489
S2: were you kind of like, I mean, you obviously got help,

780
00:36:00,489 --> 00:36:02,110
S2: but could you kind of be like, I'm going to

781
00:36:02,140 --> 00:36:03,250
S2: forever live with this?

782
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,430
S3: 100%. I thought I'd forever lived with it. You're just like,

783
00:36:06,430 --> 00:36:08,740
S3: there's absolutely no way that I am not going to

784
00:36:08,739 --> 00:36:10,870
S3: live with this, because it takes up my whole life.

785
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:14,230
S3: And that's why I wanted to write the book in

786
00:36:14,230 --> 00:36:15,910
S3: this time of my life, as you said, because I

787
00:36:15,910 --> 00:36:18,820
S3: can still remember what it's like. And I think sometimes

788
00:36:18,820 --> 00:36:22,209
S3: when I read recovery stories, it'd be from someone who'd recovered.

789
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,020
S3: And the way that they spoke about it, it was

790
00:36:26,020 --> 00:36:28,810
S3: just too far fetched. So I wanted to be close

791
00:36:28,810 --> 00:36:31,000
S3: enough to this time so I can reach someone in

792
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,790
S3: the depths and be like, no, no, no. Like, I

793
00:36:33,790 --> 00:36:35,890
S3: think I get what you're going through because sometimes you're like,

794
00:36:35,890 --> 00:36:37,870
S3: if I saw someone recovered, I'd be like, yeah, but

795
00:36:37,870 --> 00:36:39,609
S3: you couldn't have actually been as bad as me because

796
00:36:39,610 --> 00:36:41,710
S3: there's no way you could be where you are now.

797
00:36:41,739 --> 00:36:44,080
S3: So I wanted to really make it clear without being

798
00:36:44,110 --> 00:36:47,250
S3: triggering in the book that, like, I've been there and

799
00:36:47,489 --> 00:36:50,489
S3: I know that it feels like you will never recover.

800
00:36:50,489 --> 00:36:52,110
S3: And I know that it feels like you've opened this

801
00:36:52,110 --> 00:36:55,020
S3: Pandora's box and you can't get it back. And there's,

802
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,480
S3: you know, I think you can also be delusional and think, oh, no,

803
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,870
S3: everyone thinks is thinking about this. Everyone's thinking about me.

804
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,610
S3: We all think about it. This is going to be

805
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,980
S3: it forever. But there are people that don't think about it.

806
00:37:04,980 --> 00:37:06,930
S3: And I think you can be one of them. And

807
00:37:06,930 --> 00:37:08,460
S3: that's why it was so important for me in this

808
00:37:08,460 --> 00:37:10,740
S3: book to have the final kind of chapters where I

809
00:37:10,739 --> 00:37:14,580
S3: talk about the sensation of recovery, because I think as well,

810
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,969
S3: you don't often what I found through recovery and the

811
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,780
S3: kind of stories that I'd gravitate towards when I was considering, um,

812
00:37:21,780 --> 00:37:25,890
S3: recovering were always kind of like, and I wonder what

813
00:37:25,890 --> 00:37:28,290
S3: you guys think about this. I'd often find people going

814
00:37:28,290 --> 00:37:31,650
S3: from full on restricting anorexia, especially about 10 to 5

815
00:37:31,650 --> 00:37:34,230
S3: years ago. You'd see the recovery stories and they go

816
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:36,660
S3: to that to like going to a bodybuilding competition and

817
00:37:36,690 --> 00:37:39,900
S3: like becoming quote unquote strong. And it was always this

818
00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:43,920
S3: like restricting to exercise pipeline, which wigged me out because

819
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,000
S3: I'm like, I hate exercising. I don't want to do that,

820
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,939
S3: but I don't want to. Like, what's the alternative? So

821
00:37:49,940 --> 00:37:52,160
S3: for me, being able to show that there is this

822
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,279
S3: alternative where you can go back to behaving like a child.

823
00:37:55,310 --> 00:37:57,410
S3: I exercise when I want to, I'm not. I don't

824
00:37:57,410 --> 00:37:59,930
S3: do any exercise to try and, um, change the way

825
00:37:59,930 --> 00:38:02,870
S3: my body looks. Can't believe that. Like I love rollerblading

826
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:05,930
S3: or going for a walk or like frolicking in the ocean.

827
00:38:05,930 --> 00:38:09,200
S3: I don't do any targeted exercise for my body. And

828
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:14,359
S3: I think that that is that is unusual, I think,

829
00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:17,240
S3: because even even if you don't have a disordered relationship

830
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,410
S3: with food, I think even that feeling of like, you know,

831
00:38:21,410 --> 00:38:22,940
S3: when it's a Sunday night and, you know, you have

832
00:38:22,940 --> 00:38:25,219
S3: to get up for an exercise class tomorrow morning and

833
00:38:25,219 --> 00:38:27,980
S3: you have that dread. And sometimes I think the dread

834
00:38:28,010 --> 00:38:29,870
S3: is just normal. And then I think sometimes there's this

835
00:38:29,870 --> 00:38:33,049
S3: dread that's more existential and more kind of like impacting

836
00:38:33,050 --> 00:38:35,690
S3: your quality of life. So for me, I really needed

837
00:38:35,690 --> 00:38:39,140
S3: to take like a year or two off exercise to

838
00:38:39,170 --> 00:38:40,520
S3: be able to get back to a place where I

839
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,000
S3: could enjoy it, and it becomes something that I find enjoyable.

840
00:38:44,030 --> 00:38:47,570
S2: It's so important to find that because like the if

841
00:38:47,570 --> 00:38:50,090
S2: the movement isn't something that you enjoy, as you said,

842
00:38:50,090 --> 00:38:51,739
S2: it will pop up and you will dread it. And

843
00:38:51,739 --> 00:38:53,089
S2: it's not to say those days that you're not going

844
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,220
S2: to feel that motivated, like that's a little bit different,

845
00:38:55,219 --> 00:38:59,600
S2: but it's dreading certain classes or like avoiding things like that.

846
00:38:59,630 --> 00:39:02,120
S2: It's like you obviously haven't found what fuels you or

847
00:39:02,150 --> 00:39:05,540
S2: makes you feel really good. And if you connecting with

848
00:39:05,570 --> 00:39:08,450
S2: like your childhood self and like dancing, frolicking, getting in

849
00:39:08,450 --> 00:39:10,280
S2: the water and all that, that is so awesome that

850
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,320
S2: you found that because it is still important that we

851
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,080
S2: all move our bodies, but to do it in a way,

852
00:39:15,110 --> 00:39:17,660
S2: particularly as someone who's come through, like having an eating

853
00:39:17,660 --> 00:39:20,180
S2: disorder and have has been so fixated on their body

854
00:39:20,180 --> 00:39:21,500
S2: to be able to do it and not think about it,

855
00:39:21,500 --> 00:39:25,040
S2: it's just so amazing. So like well done you on

856
00:39:25,070 --> 00:39:28,939
S2: that because it is, I think, and even with those

857
00:39:28,969 --> 00:39:31,700
S2: the people that kind of do go from being really

858
00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:34,310
S2: restrictive to then bodybuilding and so on, you have to

859
00:39:34,340 --> 00:39:37,430
S2: focus on food a lot. Yes. To attain that kind

860
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:41,109
S2: of body. So in a way, you're still being somewhat,

861
00:39:41,380 --> 00:39:44,469
S2: you know, too focused and really concentrated. And I have

862
00:39:44,469 --> 00:39:46,719
S2: nothing against people who want to do it. And they

863
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,730
S2: challenge themselves and they do it like my auntie did it.

864
00:39:48,820 --> 00:39:52,509
S2: And for her, it was like this challenge that she didn't,

865
00:39:52,540 --> 00:39:54,820
S2: you know, that she was like, I'm like so proud.

866
00:39:54,820 --> 00:39:57,040
S2: She did it in her 50s, so proud that she

867
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,130
S2: did it. Um, won't necessarily do it again. Like, I

868
00:40:00,130 --> 00:40:03,880
S2: wouldn't consider that, as you know, but it's going from

869
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:05,529
S2: one or the other one extreme to the other. And

870
00:40:05,530 --> 00:40:07,210
S2: I think it's awesome that you've been able to find

871
00:40:07,210 --> 00:40:09,669
S2: that relationship with with movement as well, because it can

872
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:14,020
S2: be really hard. And I um, again, it just comes

873
00:40:14,020 --> 00:40:16,630
S2: back to society thinking that we need to do things

874
00:40:16,630 --> 00:40:18,940
S2: to look a certain way when the way we eat

875
00:40:18,969 --> 00:40:22,510
S2: is to literally live like we have to eat and

876
00:40:22,510 --> 00:40:24,460
S2: to move. That's just so that we can continue to

877
00:40:24,489 --> 00:40:26,260
S2: be able to move and get up from A to

878
00:40:26,290 --> 00:40:30,640
S2: B long into our old age, hopefully for everyone. So

879
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,770
S2: it's awesome you've reframed that. Thank you.

880
00:40:32,860 --> 00:40:35,680
S1: Yeah it's amazing. And I think too it's just it's

881
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,500
S1: just as you're speaking, I think I was just thinking

882
00:40:38,530 --> 00:40:42,220
S1: about at the same time, like TikTok. And if you

883
00:40:42,219 --> 00:40:44,530
S1: get in the wrong algorithm and like, honestly, you can

884
00:40:44,530 --> 00:40:47,950
S1: get in an algorithm where every single video is like

885
00:40:47,950 --> 00:40:52,569
S1: people being like, I've found the secret to like getting

886
00:40:52,570 --> 00:40:55,300
S1: a thigh gap or to like targeting the lower body

887
00:40:55,330 --> 00:40:57,279
S1: fat that you've never been able to move, like you

888
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,280
S1: have to do this particular exercise. And it's like if

889
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,100
S1: you don't want to, like, that's obviously not moving for

890
00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:05,290
S1: your mind or for enjoyment or because you want to

891
00:41:05,290 --> 00:41:07,900
S1: take care of your body, that's to change it. It's

892
00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:11,080
S1: really interesting because on my I was just thinking as well,

893
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,810
S1: we've just finished a quick, um, like a big shoot

894
00:41:13,810 --> 00:41:15,459
S1: where we shoot a lot of workouts for the app,

895
00:41:15,460 --> 00:41:18,250
S1: and there was a lot of core workouts in there,

896
00:41:18,250 --> 00:41:20,200
S1: and as I was doing them, I was like, I

897
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,900
S1: never train core because all my abs. Well, first of all,

898
00:41:22,900 --> 00:41:25,089
S1: I find it boring and I don't like lying down

899
00:41:25,090 --> 00:41:28,150
S1: and exercising, so like, don't like it. But I had

900
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:30,399
S1: a bulged disc in my back last year. So in

901
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,410
S1: my recovery and I love like running for me is

902
00:41:32,410 --> 00:41:34,540
S1: my meditation. It makes me so happy. It brings me

903
00:41:34,540 --> 00:41:37,520
S1: so much joy. It was once something I did to

904
00:41:37,550 --> 00:41:40,670
S1: deprive myself, like to punish myself. And I've reframed it

905
00:41:40,670 --> 00:41:45,410
S1: and I've. I love running so much. Um, and but

906
00:41:45,410 --> 00:41:48,259
S1: in order to run, I actually need to do core work,

907
00:41:48,260 --> 00:41:52,250
S1: because otherwise my lower back takes all of the, um, pressure.

908
00:41:52,250 --> 00:41:54,830
S1: But it's been really interesting. And I was reflecting yesterday,

909
00:41:54,830 --> 00:41:57,500
S1: and I actually think the reason there's one reason I

910
00:41:57,500 --> 00:41:59,600
S1: find it boring. But the other reason I don't do

911
00:41:59,630 --> 00:42:02,299
S1: core work is because it's like a fuck you to

912
00:42:02,330 --> 00:42:05,899
S1: the internet because I don't I truly do not care,

913
00:42:05,930 --> 00:42:08,300
S1: because for so long I wanted to have abs and

914
00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:10,280
S1: I don't care. And I'm like, well, I'm not going

915
00:42:10,310 --> 00:42:13,190
S1: to do core work because I don't. I'm not exercising

916
00:42:13,219 --> 00:42:14,870
S1: to look a certain way. But it was interesting yesterday

917
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:16,489
S1: I was like, I actually need to do this because

918
00:42:16,489 --> 00:42:18,140
S1: I need to protect my back and otherwise I'm not

919
00:42:18,140 --> 00:42:20,180
S1: going to be able to run. But it's just that

920
00:42:20,180 --> 00:42:25,130
S1: rewiring of our brains, right? That is really hard to do,

921
00:42:25,130 --> 00:42:29,090
S1: but we can get there. Um, and I wanted to,

922
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,160
S1: to finish off something else you spoke about in the

923
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,890
S1: book was and I think it's so important is the

924
00:42:33,890 --> 00:42:37,840
S1: last five kilos. I feel like that is. Especially when

925
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:42,219
S1: we were maybe for our parents generation losing the last five.

926
00:42:42,219 --> 00:42:45,910
S1: I feel like that is the name of like 1000 books. Yeah,

927
00:42:45,940 --> 00:42:48,970
S1: it's like how to get the last stubborn. Whatever. What

928
00:42:48,969 --> 00:42:51,850
S1: do you think? Obviously know for writing the book, but

929
00:42:51,850 --> 00:42:53,890
S1: would love to hear it from you. What do you

930
00:42:53,890 --> 00:42:57,489
S1: think about the last five? And is there such a thing?

931
00:42:58,390 --> 00:43:02,890
S3: Um, I sometimes think that in many ways I'm glad

932
00:43:02,890 --> 00:43:04,569
S3: that I went through what I went through, because I

933
00:43:04,570 --> 00:43:07,150
S3: think that if I hadn't, I would still have that

934
00:43:07,150 --> 00:43:09,610
S3: last five kilo mindset for the rest of my life.

935
00:43:09,700 --> 00:43:12,219
S3: So yeah, I had a couple years of, like, really

936
00:43:12,219 --> 00:43:15,790
S3: having a shit time. Oh, sorry. Your kids. Um, you know,

937
00:43:15,820 --> 00:43:20,470
S3: having a really terrible, cruddy, crappy time. But ultimately, I

938
00:43:20,469 --> 00:43:22,060
S3: think I would go as far as to say I'm

939
00:43:22,060 --> 00:43:24,700
S3: glad that I experienced it, because it's freed me from

940
00:43:24,700 --> 00:43:26,980
S3: ever wanting to go back to that mindset. And I

941
00:43:26,980 --> 00:43:29,350
S3: think that even if you don't have a quote unquote, um,

942
00:43:29,380 --> 00:43:32,560
S3: eating disorder that hits all the criteria, I think that

943
00:43:32,570 --> 00:43:36,650
S3: this disordered eating mindset, I think the mindset is kind

944
00:43:36,650 --> 00:43:38,660
S3: of the hardest part. I think that there's a misconception

945
00:43:38,660 --> 00:43:41,660
S3: about eating disorders, that they're really terrible physically, which they

946
00:43:41,660 --> 00:43:44,720
S3: can be. But I personally feel that the mindset and

947
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:49,100
S3: being stuck in this last five kilo mindset can deprive

948
00:43:49,130 --> 00:43:51,230
S3: you of so much joy that you don't even know

949
00:43:51,260 --> 00:43:52,700
S3: is available to you.

950
00:43:52,850 --> 00:43:56,390
S1: And what about also, can I ask you if you

951
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:59,150
S1: lost in quotation marks the last five? Do you think

952
00:43:59,150 --> 00:44:00,919
S1: that's actually the last five, or do you think there's

953
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,979
S1: another one after that? Like it's never actually the last five,

954
00:44:04,010 --> 00:44:04,549
S1: is it?

955
00:44:04,580 --> 00:44:07,310
S3: I think if you have that mindset then it will never.

956
00:44:07,340 --> 00:44:09,350
S3: There'll always be an extra two or a five or

957
00:44:09,380 --> 00:44:11,719
S3: that goal weight, or like that Roman Empire weight that

958
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:13,009
S3: you weighed when you were 17.

959
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:13,279
S2: Yeah.

960
00:44:13,310 --> 00:44:17,300
S3: God, yeah. So I guess what has helped me as well,

961
00:44:17,300 --> 00:44:18,980
S3: that I write about in the last chapter is like

962
00:44:19,010 --> 00:44:21,380
S3: talking to older women and them like, oh, I just

963
00:44:21,380 --> 00:44:26,899
S3: wish I appreciated, like being able to be like mobile

964
00:44:26,900 --> 00:44:29,660
S3: or this or that or be young and like, enjoy

965
00:44:29,660 --> 00:44:31,169
S3: all these other things that you get from being young,

966
00:44:31,170 --> 00:44:33,450
S3: which is, yeah, being mobile, having so much energy and

967
00:44:33,450 --> 00:44:36,239
S3: doing this and doing that. So for me, it's about

968
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,160
S3: trying to think, what am I going to want when

969
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,440
S3: I'm 60? What am I going to look back at

970
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,020
S3: and appreciate? And I think it's the times when I'm

971
00:44:43,020 --> 00:44:44,850
S3: going out with friends and we're having a big dinner

972
00:44:44,850 --> 00:44:47,219
S3: and I'm not thinking about food, and then we're having

973
00:44:47,219 --> 00:44:49,350
S3: lots of drinks and like, we're going out. I'm thinking

974
00:44:49,350 --> 00:44:51,060
S3: about all these things that I can do because I'm

975
00:44:51,060 --> 00:44:52,859
S3: not worried about the last five kilos. Like, I'm going

976
00:44:52,890 --> 00:44:55,589
S3: to be getting all the cocktails I want. Yeah. And

977
00:44:55,590 --> 00:44:57,330
S3: it does all even out like you say, Laura, we

978
00:44:57,330 --> 00:45:00,210
S3: all have a set, a waypoint. And I tried to

979
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:04,950
S3: as well in the book, recognise that, um, you know,

980
00:45:04,980 --> 00:45:07,050
S3: it is easier for some people than other people to

981
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,690
S3: accept the body that they're in because they are celebrated

982
00:45:09,690 --> 00:45:12,210
S3: in society. Yeah. And I think it's important for me

983
00:45:12,210 --> 00:45:13,710
S3: to say that, like, as much as I'm not the

984
00:45:13,710 --> 00:45:17,040
S3: ideal body weight that I once wanted, I still fit,

985
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,190
S3: I still am straight sized. And I think that a

986
00:45:20,190 --> 00:45:21,840
S3: friend of mine mentioned to me, you know, I think

987
00:45:21,870 --> 00:45:23,310
S3: you'd be writing a different book if you were in

988
00:45:23,310 --> 00:45:25,770
S3: a different body. And I think that's important as well,

989
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,190
S3: to touch on and to discuss in a book like this.

990
00:45:29,610 --> 00:45:32,010
S3: But I think, yeah, the personal and the individual freedom

991
00:45:32,010 --> 00:45:37,140
S3: that you can get from, um, eating what? Your body's

992
00:45:37,140 --> 00:45:39,120
S3: so smart. You guys talk about this like your body

993
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,350
S3: is so smart, takes so much to rewire your brain.

994
00:45:43,350 --> 00:45:45,120
S3: But I think if you can focus on doing that,

995
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,250
S3: and like I said, you don't have to have an

996
00:45:47,250 --> 00:45:49,800
S3: eating disorder to want to try and eradicate those disordered

997
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,700
S3: eating thoughts. And I hope that I can show people

998
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:55,710
S3: that as hard as it is, like I think it

999
00:45:55,710 --> 00:45:58,230
S3: is possible to go back to your child self, it's

1000
00:45:58,230 --> 00:46:00,390
S3: always going back to your child self and looking at

1001
00:46:00,390 --> 00:46:03,060
S3: older women and older people, and kind of like melding

1002
00:46:03,060 --> 00:46:04,320
S3: the two to put you in a good place in

1003
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,600
S3: the middle, you know, I love it. Does that make sense?

1004
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:07,290
S2: Yeah, absolutely.

1005
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,540
S1: I love that. That is so beautiful. And it's so

1006
00:46:09,570 --> 00:46:12,210
S1: true because it's like the two areas of our life.

1007
00:46:12,210 --> 00:46:14,940
S1: It's like. But unfortunately, the majority of our life is

1008
00:46:14,940 --> 00:46:17,670
S1: in the middle part where we care so much about

1009
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:19,589
S1: stuff that doesn't really matter.

1010
00:46:19,620 --> 00:46:22,440
S2: Well, the first part is we haven't learned all the shit.

1011
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,600
S2: And then and so we're just kind of, you know,

1012
00:46:24,660 --> 00:46:26,550
S2: in our in our bodies and in our world. And

1013
00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:29,110
S2: the later part is we've got all this hindsight. So like,

1014
00:46:29,140 --> 00:46:31,839
S2: how do we get that earlier? Yes. Which is why

1015
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,400
S2: I relate I related to what you said in that,

1016
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:35,770
S2: like in some ways you're grateful for the the journey

1017
00:46:35,770 --> 00:46:39,700
S2: that you've been on. And I am too, because I,

1018
00:46:39,730 --> 00:46:42,190
S2: I mean, number one kick might not exist. Like, if

1019
00:46:42,190 --> 00:46:46,240
S2: we hadn't gone through what we had. But, um, it's

1020
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,180
S2: enabled me to be able to squash any kind of

1021
00:46:49,210 --> 00:46:51,459
S2: food noise that does come up if it ever rears

1022
00:46:51,460 --> 00:46:56,140
S2: its head again so quickly, because I remember going through

1023
00:46:56,140 --> 00:46:58,660
S2: that and I'm like, I'm not going back. Going back. Yeah,

1024
00:46:58,690 --> 00:47:02,350
S2: because I love going out now and just looking at

1025
00:47:02,350 --> 00:47:04,899
S2: a menu and thinking like, what do I actually feel like?

1026
00:47:04,930 --> 00:47:07,120
S2: Like what's jumping out at me, not what's.

1027
00:47:07,150 --> 00:47:08,080
S1: Has the least calories.

1028
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,860
S2: Yeah, yeah. And like, it's just so much. It's as

1029
00:47:11,860 --> 00:47:14,530
S2: you said, it's so freeing. And ordering cocktails instead of

1030
00:47:14,530 --> 00:47:16,149
S2: thinking that you have to have the one that has

1031
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:17,770
S2: zero calories or whatever.

1032
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,410
S1: Because I actually, I hate vodka. I hate it so much.

1033
00:47:20,410 --> 00:47:22,689
S1: But I just remember all those stupid toasts being like

1034
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:24,190
S1: calories in drinks.

1035
00:47:24,219 --> 00:47:24,970
S5: Yes, yes.

1036
00:47:24,969 --> 00:47:28,509
S1: And You're not enjoying it? Yeah, I'm not enjoying it. Totally. So.

1037
00:47:28,540 --> 00:47:30,910
S1: Except if we order a cocktail, it has. I don't

1038
00:47:30,910 --> 00:47:33,490
S1: really know what. I really don't like tequila or mezcal.

1039
00:47:33,489 --> 00:47:34,359
S1: Sometimes I go.

1040
00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:35,170
S3: You like mezcal.

1041
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:36,010
S1: Do I? You don't like.

1042
00:47:36,010 --> 00:47:37,810
S2: Rum? You don't like. I don't like a lot of spirits.

1043
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:38,110
S1: You like.

1044
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,540
S2: You just. You like champagne. I like Aperol.

1045
00:47:40,540 --> 00:47:41,770
S3: Champagne, Prosecco.

1046
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,700
S1: I like very, very sweet cocktails that have, uh, white

1047
00:47:45,730 --> 00:47:48,370
S1: stuff on top. Foam, egg white, foam, egg white.

1048
00:47:48,430 --> 00:47:51,460
S3: Yeah, but never too eggy. Please. Yeah. Sometimes the eggs

1049
00:47:51,820 --> 00:47:53,469
S3: hits different, so we don't want that.

1050
00:47:53,980 --> 00:47:54,459
S1: But it is.

1051
00:47:54,489 --> 00:47:57,310
S2: It is nice to, like, sit here like three people

1052
00:47:57,310 --> 00:47:59,650
S2: that have definitely gone through phases in their life where

1053
00:47:59,650 --> 00:48:03,040
S2: food noise absolutely took over 24, over seven hours in

1054
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,830
S2: our day. You do get to you can get to

1055
00:48:05,860 --> 00:48:09,280
S2: a point where you can like order what you feel,

1056
00:48:09,310 --> 00:48:12,460
S2: not regret it afterwards as well. That's the other one.

1057
00:48:12,850 --> 00:48:15,220
S2: And it's it is freeing. And that is what you

1058
00:48:15,219 --> 00:48:20,020
S2: should aspire to, not a certain aesthetic or goal weight. Totally. Yeah.

1059
00:48:20,050 --> 00:48:21,700
S3: Oh my God, I'm so honored to be here, guys.

1060
00:48:21,700 --> 00:48:23,350
S3: Thank you for having me. This is like a pinch

1061
00:48:23,380 --> 00:48:25,000
S3: me moment. Oh thank you guys.

1062
00:48:25,150 --> 00:48:27,070
S1: Thank you so much for coming on. It's, um. It

1063
00:48:27,070 --> 00:48:28,719
S1: is a gift. Your book is a gift to the world,

1064
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,069
S1: and we really appreciate it.

1065
00:48:30,100 --> 00:48:31,150
S3: Thank you. Babe.

1066
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:35,380
S1: Thank you so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed

1067
00:48:35,380 --> 00:48:38,440
S1: the episode. If you ever want to get involved in

1068
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,750
S1: the Kick Pod, which we would love, there are a

1069
00:48:40,780 --> 00:48:43,390
S1: few ways you can do it. You can follow us

1070
00:48:43,390 --> 00:48:46,060
S1: and DM us on Instagram. We're at kick pod. That's

1071
00:48:46,090 --> 00:48:49,509
S1: kick pod. Tell us what you think of our episodes,

1072
00:48:49,510 --> 00:48:53,080
S1: suggest guests for future episodes or DM us an anonymous

1073
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,460
S1: voice note which we love.

1074
00:48:54,489 --> 00:48:58,029
S2: You can also join the conversation in our closed Facebook group.

1075
00:48:58,030 --> 00:49:00,520
S2: Just search Kick Pod on Facebook and if you want

1076
00:49:00,550 --> 00:49:02,500
S2: to learn more about the kick app, you can visit

1077
00:49:02,500 --> 00:49:06,250
S2: us at kick app.com or search Kick that's Kick on

1078
00:49:06,250 --> 00:49:08,590
S2: the Apple App Store or Google Play Store. We have

1079
00:49:08,590 --> 00:49:11,020
S2: a seven day free trial for you to try us out,

1080
00:49:11,020 --> 00:49:13,300
S2: and you can also follow us on Instagram at Steph

1081
00:49:13,300 --> 00:49:16,359
S2: Claire Smith and Laura Henshaw. We'll be back in your

1082
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:17,830
S2: ears very soon.