WEBVTT - 4 day work week: how it's gone in Australia 0:00:02.570 --> 0:00:04.250 A listener production. 0:00:06.350 --> 0:00:09.740 Hello, Katrina blowers and Tom Tilley here with you. And 0:00:09.740 --> 0:00:12.890 if you're relatively new to the Briefing first up, welcome 0:00:12.890 --> 0:00:16.340 and thank you for listening. We love having you with us, 0:00:16.340 --> 0:00:17.930 and we'd love to have you with us every day. 0:00:17.930 --> 0:00:21.290 So whether you're listening via Apple Podcasts or Spotify or 0:00:21.290 --> 0:00:24.950 another podcast app, if you could please hit subscribe and 0:00:24.950 --> 0:00:26.960 then you'll get the briefing in your feed every morning 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:29.360 from 6 a.m. we give you a survey of the 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:33.560 latest news and then a deep dive interview. Now, Tom, 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:37.040 imagine if you were starting your workweek today. 0:00:37.130 --> 0:00:40.250 All right. So you're talking about this fabled four day 0:00:40.250 --> 0:00:43.880 work week. I hear so much about that never happens. 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:49.070 Well, for some people, it actually has happened. 26 organisations 0:00:49.070 --> 0:00:54.350 across Australasia have been trialling this and the results are in. 0:00:54.590 --> 0:00:56.840 Right. So in this briefing today, we're going to hear 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:59.150 how it's going in those companies that are giving it 0:00:59.150 --> 0:01:02.480 a try. You'll speak with the business in southern Queensland 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:06.369 that's done it and apparently never looking back. 0:01:06.380 --> 0:01:08.660 Truly we didn't realise how much time we were actually 0:01:08.660 --> 0:01:12.030 wasting in just those quick conversations in the hallway or 0:01:12.050 --> 0:01:14.270 not having an agenda for a meeting or even just 0:01:14.270 --> 0:01:16.670 turning up a couple of minutes late to a meeting. 0:01:16.970 --> 0:01:19.940 It's amazing how much your productivity goes down with those 0:01:19.940 --> 0:01:21.649 tiny little incidences. 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.170 Yeah, so they're absolutely loving it. And we're going to 0:01:24.170 --> 0:01:27.020 hear from the CEO of the four day workweek about 0:01:27.020 --> 0:01:30.470 how you can possibly bring it into your organization, too. 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.709 But first, here are the headlines. It is Tuesday, the 0:01:33.709 --> 0:01:34.700 20th of June. 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.180 So the bride and the groom at the center of 0:01:39.180 --> 0:01:42.830 the wedding bus tragedy have made their first public statement. 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.350 Mitchell Gaffney and Madeline Edsel thanked the community for the 0:01:46.350 --> 0:01:49.500 outpouring of love and support since the crash that killed 0:01:49.500 --> 0:01:52.740 ten of their wedding guests. They've said that the primary 0:01:52.740 --> 0:01:56.910 focus at this time is processing the tragedy and supporting 0:01:56.910 --> 0:02:01.740 our family and friends. Just a devastating situation for that 0:02:01.740 --> 0:02:06.060 whole community and the people that lost family members and 0:02:06.060 --> 0:02:09.840 also this couple, just unbelievable. The groom's parents have been 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:13.470 posting on social media for action on seatbelts. So going 0:02:13.770 --> 0:02:16.050 a little bit beyond supporting their friends, making a point 0:02:16.050 --> 0:02:16.950 there as well. 0:02:17.220 --> 0:02:20.040 Yeah, I know that often you sort of look at 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.679 this stuff and you think, oh, you feel really helpless. 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.110 But there is a way that you can pledge some 0:02:25.110 --> 0:02:28.830 support by way of funds. Donors are being directed to 0:02:28.830 --> 0:02:32.669 the Rotaries, Hunter Valley, New South Wales Bus Tragedy Fund. 0:02:32.850 --> 0:02:36.510 That's going to help out the families of the victims. 0:02:37.260 --> 0:02:40.470 We'll all officially now be voting in a referendum on 0:02:40.470 --> 0:02:43.950 the Indigenous voice to Parliament between 2 and 6 months 0:02:43.950 --> 0:02:47.100 from now after legislation on The Voice passed through the 0:02:47.100 --> 0:02:50.700 Senate yesterday. Here's the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, Linda Burney. 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:56.000 People in this country understand that things are not fair, 0:02:56.010 --> 0:03:00.150 things are unequal and the life outcomes for Aboriginal people 0:03:00.150 --> 0:03:05.730 are not correct. The voice is about helping us understand 0:03:05.730 --> 0:03:07.200 what the answers are. 0:03:07.770 --> 0:03:11.820 Yeah, so the most likely dates range from October 14th 0:03:11.820 --> 0:03:16.140 to the end of November. Anthony Albanese is expected to 0:03:16.139 --> 0:03:18.990 announce exactly when the referendum will be held at the 0:03:19.020 --> 0:03:23.730 annual Garma Festival, and that is Australia's biggest Indigenous festival 0:03:23.730 --> 0:03:25.980 that's happening in the first week of August. 0:03:26.340 --> 0:03:28.560 Yes, it's over a month till we find out the 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.500 date and then several more months till we have the vote. 0:03:31.500 --> 0:03:34.559 I do, you know, look, I've put it out there before. 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:36.360 I am a supporter of the voice. I will be 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:40.740 voting yes. And the debate has has sort of gone 0:03:40.740 --> 0:03:44.550 on since January without that much new information being inserted 0:03:44.550 --> 0:03:47.580 in it. And you just see polling start to slowly 0:03:47.940 --> 0:03:50.820 support for the voice slowly fall away as the months 0:03:50.820 --> 0:03:54.450 go on. So I am concerned that it potentially should 0:03:54.450 --> 0:03:56.940 be happening sooner unless there's a major change once that 0:03:56.940 --> 0:04:00.180 date is set and and the campaign really ramps up. 0:04:00.690 --> 0:04:03.540 I think that's exactly what we're going to see. I mean, 0:04:03.540 --> 0:04:07.440 especially from the yes side of things, you know, we're 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:11.520 going to see some advertising blitzes really begin hitting us 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.040 in the next few weeks. You've got to remember that 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.919 as well as having pretty big private war chests of 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:20.669 funding on both sides, there's also public funding, so they've 0:04:20.670 --> 0:04:21.870 got to start using that. 0:04:22.930 --> 0:04:25.450 And the window of opportunity is closing for tens of 0:04:25.450 --> 0:04:28.810 thousands of people to take legal action over the Defense 0:04:28.810 --> 0:04:32.860 Department's use of forever chemicals, also known as pay. So 0:04:32.860 --> 0:04:35.620 there was a big settlement approved in the court in 0:04:35.620 --> 0:04:38.830 New South Wales yesterday, a $22 million settlement for the 0:04:38.830 --> 0:04:42.580 Wreck Bay Community and they've been devastated by these past 0:04:42.670 --> 0:04:45.700 toxins on the New South Wales south coast where they are. 0:04:45.940 --> 0:04:49.830 So there's 11 communities. Rick Bays, one of them who 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.170 are launching class actions against the Defence Department for using 0:04:53.170 --> 0:04:57.940 these pollutants generally used in firefighting foams. And a lot 0:04:57.940 --> 0:05:01.120 of people weren't happy with this decision, though it sounds 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.430 like a lot of money, $22 million. But they say 0:05:03.430 --> 0:05:07.300 it's nowhere near enough for the damage it's caused their community. 0:05:08.410 --> 0:05:11.920 We have a major search and rescue operation underway off 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.640 the east coast of Canada after a tourist submarine visiting 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:20.260 the Titanic shipwreck went missing. Unfortunately, we don't know how 0:05:20.260 --> 0:05:24.280 many people were on board or exactly when it got lost. 0:05:24.550 --> 0:05:26.740 What we do know is that the craft usually carries 0:05:26.740 --> 0:05:29.289 four days worth of oxygen on board. It has the 0:05:29.290 --> 0:05:34.540 capability of carrying five people. The Titanic sank in 1912. 0:05:34.540 --> 0:05:39.910 It's located nearly four kilometres under the water. It's become 0:05:39.910 --> 0:05:43.180 pretty popular for tourists to get in submarines. I mean, 0:05:43.180 --> 0:05:46.510 that sounds amazing, but not when things go wrong. 0:05:46.510 --> 0:05:48.880 Oh yeah. Look, as someone who is a little bit 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:50.849 prone to claustrophobia, that does. 0:05:50.890 --> 0:05:52.690 Yes, sounds fun. 0:05:52.690 --> 0:05:58.450 And 3800m down into the ocean like that is just 0:05:58.450 --> 0:06:04.210 a crazy depth. And if you thought it was a 0:06:04.210 --> 0:06:07.599 little bit cold this morning, well, you're right, particularly if 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:10.960 you're on the whole eastern side of Australia, basically. So 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:15.039 two cold fronts have come in two days and temperatures 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:20.260 have dropped below freezing in parts of Tassie, Victoria Act 0:06:20.260 --> 0:06:23.890 and New South Wales. It's going to get particularly cold 0:06:23.890 --> 0:06:28.540 in Canberra down to minus five. Katrina in your old hometown. 0:06:29.110 --> 0:06:32.320 Yeah, I remember chipping the ice off the windshield every 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.650 morning in WA. You're not as cold, but you are 0:06:35.650 --> 0:06:38.800 going to cop some wet weather. A big rain band 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:41.890 is going to soak you guys in WA every day 0:06:41.890 --> 0:06:44.920 until the weekend. I don't know what I'd prefer. Cold or. 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:45.400 Wet. 0:06:46.810 --> 0:06:48.910 I'll take dry and cold any day. There's lots you 0:06:48.910 --> 0:06:53.620 can do. You can get out and exercising, including skiing, 0:06:53.620 --> 0:06:56.710 of course. So they were having a shocking early start 0:06:56.710 --> 0:07:00.250 to the season. The resorts couldn't even open. I think 0:07:00.250 --> 0:07:02.980 with the exception of Mount Buller. Certainly the New South 0:07:02.980 --> 0:07:06.520 Wales resorts couldn't open properly on opening weekend, but now 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.010 they've had this massive dump and it looks like the 0:07:09.010 --> 0:07:11.530 middle of winter all of a sudden. So that's good news. 0:07:11.830 --> 0:07:15.460 Amazing. All right, Tom, we'll leave you there. We are 0:07:15.460 --> 0:07:18.400 about to get the lowdown on the four day workweek. 0:07:25.740 --> 0:07:31.440 Three day weekends. It sounds amazing, but does it work? Well, 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.710 the results are in from the first ever Australasian trial 0:07:34.710 --> 0:07:39.000 of a four day workweek. So 26 different organisations jumped 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.250 on board last August. They've been doing it for six 0:07:41.250 --> 0:07:44.580 months and we're about to find out how it went. 0:07:44.700 --> 0:07:47.550 We're going to hear from the brains behind this concept 0:07:47.550 --> 0:07:49.800 in just a second. We'll also get the gist of 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:53.280 how you practically implement this with a whole bunch of 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.970 different staff who want the same days off and how 0:07:56.970 --> 0:07:59.850 you reshuffle clients. Basically the nuts and bolts of it 0:07:59.850 --> 0:08:03.270 from a company who took part. But first, let's bring 0:08:03.270 --> 0:08:06.870 in Charlotte Lockhart, who's the managing director and founder of 0:08:06.870 --> 0:08:11.190 the Australasia Four Day Workweek. First up, why are you 0:08:11.190 --> 0:08:14.640 so passionate about the four day working week? And where 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:16.440 did all of this begin for you? 0:08:16.620 --> 0:08:17.190 I mean, why. 0:08:17.190 --> 0:08:20.820 Not be passionate about working less? Look, Andrew Barnes, my partner, 0:08:21.210 --> 0:08:24.120 did a four day week in his business, perpetual Guardian, 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:28.290 back in 2018. And it was a very big success, 0:08:28.290 --> 0:08:30.390 not only for our business, but we got a lot 0:08:30.390 --> 0:08:34.560 of media and attention from academics and companies and governments. 0:08:34.650 --> 0:08:38.010 And then of course, we had a pandemic. And then 0:08:38.190 --> 0:08:41.730 and through that, of course, we all changed our view 0:08:41.730 --> 0:08:45.480 around and expedited this whole idea of of changing the 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.199 way that we work. And so we're we've ended up 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.050 with four day week. Global is really just this process 0:08:52.050 --> 0:08:54.390 of doing it in our own business, talking to other 0:08:54.390 --> 0:08:58.319 businesses and academics. And then in 2022, we started running 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:02.280 pilot programs around the world, which the research that has 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:03.930 been announced as part of. 0:09:04.020 --> 0:09:07.320 Yes, let's talk about this research. So we've had six 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:12.209 months of data in Australasia. 26 different organisations have jumped 0:09:12.210 --> 0:09:14.250 on board. How did it go? 0:09:14.460 --> 0:09:17.430 So the interesting thing about the Australasian data is it's 0:09:17.429 --> 0:09:20.850 very similar to the data that we've seen in the UK, 0:09:20.850 --> 0:09:25.230 Ireland and North America. And interestingly we've got a pilot 0:09:25.230 --> 0:09:27.570 running in South Africa at the moment and we just 0:09:27.570 --> 0:09:30.060 launched one in Brazil. So it would be very we're 0:09:30.059 --> 0:09:32.880 quite interested to see whether the data remains the same. 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:36.090 But what it says is that it is entirely possible 0:09:36.090 --> 0:09:39.300 in our programmes we get people to focus in on 0:09:39.300 --> 0:09:42.360 productivity and so that you can look at how you 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.150 can improve your business so that you can give people 0:09:45.150 --> 0:09:47.910 time off. This is not a case of just saying, 0:09:47.910 --> 0:09:49.469 Oh well, if you give people time off, your business 0:09:49.470 --> 0:09:53.730 will be better. That's possible. But you know, one also 0:09:53.730 --> 0:09:56.910 needs to be a lot more targeted about these things. Also, 0:09:56.910 --> 0:10:00.059 as we've driven through the process, we're no longer really 0:10:00.059 --> 0:10:02.910 talking about a three day weekend. We're talking about how 0:10:02.910 --> 0:10:06.480 can you do some form of meaningful reduction in time. 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.180 And so we have a number of businesses now more 0:10:09.179 --> 0:10:14.010 and more joining our pilots that actually look at 180 0:10:14.010 --> 0:10:19.800 100 rule, which is 100% pay, 80% time, 100% productivity. 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.170 And it might be that they stay open five days 0:10:22.170 --> 0:10:24.809 a week. But then, you know, people work shorter hours 0:10:24.809 --> 0:10:28.170 or what is increasingly becoming popular and is what is 0:10:28.170 --> 0:10:31.410 what Perpetual Guardian does is it's a fully flexible but 0:10:31.410 --> 0:10:34.949 reduced work. And so therefore, people take the sort of 0:10:34.950 --> 0:10:38.370 time off that suits them, the business and their customers. 0:10:38.730 --> 0:10:43.979 How is it that you can get 100% productivity out 0:10:43.980 --> 0:10:46.610 of people? How does this actually work? 0:10:46.620 --> 0:10:48.870 So what we're saying is 100% of the productivity that 0:10:48.870 --> 0:10:52.620 you've already got and the reality is you've not got 100% 0:10:52.620 --> 0:10:57.030 productivity across your 37.5 or 40 hour week as things 0:10:57.030 --> 0:11:00.840 are now, because what happens in Parkinson's law says that 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.449 work expands to the time that you make available to it, 0:11:03.450 --> 0:11:06.690 but also what happens in businesses that we actually have 0:11:06.690 --> 0:11:11.040 a lot of layering of things that don't necessarily add 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:16.860 into the current requirement for productivity in a business, because 0:11:16.860 --> 0:11:18.930 we get very much, you know, this is the way 0:11:18.929 --> 0:11:22.380 we've always done it sort of behaviour, particularly for businesses 0:11:22.380 --> 0:11:25.319 that have been around for a while in startups. What 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.410 we see is people looking for what is best practice 0:11:28.410 --> 0:11:32.699 so that I can ensure that I'm not driving myself 0:11:32.700 --> 0:11:35.429 into an early grave and I'm not, you know, making 0:11:35.429 --> 0:11:39.720 my people work ridiculous hours as well. When you look 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.180 at your business and you go, wow, okay, so this 0:11:42.179 --> 0:11:44.490 is why we're really here and this is what our 0:11:44.490 --> 0:11:49.349 customers really want, then the majority of businesses find that 0:11:49.350 --> 0:11:53.130 they actually have wastage and that can be wastage and 0:11:53.130 --> 0:11:57.480 systems wastage and time wastage and all sorts of various things, 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.870 or just running a production line in a different way. 0:12:00.870 --> 0:12:04.559 What we encourage the differences that we get bosses to 0:12:04.980 --> 0:12:08.400 partner with their people and actually let their people run 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:11.459 the programme rather than going, right, well, this is how 0:12:11.460 --> 0:12:13.800 we're going to save some time and money because when 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:15.510 you do that, when you say to people, I want 0:12:15.510 --> 0:12:17.430 you to be more productive, when you're getting time and 0:12:17.429 --> 0:12:20.579 motion people and all that people hear is you want 0:12:20.580 --> 0:12:22.980 me to do more with less? And layoffs are on 0:12:22.980 --> 0:12:26.059 the way. And you don't trust me when you say 0:12:26.059 --> 0:12:28.309 to people. Look, guys, we want you to be more 0:12:28.309 --> 0:12:32.210 productive because if we can improve productivity, you can go home. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.479 People go. Right. Let me think about that for a minute. 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.959 I will come back with some good ideas. And that's 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.520 the modern way we run the workforce now, isn't it? 0:12:41.570 --> 0:12:45.710 We don't dictate from the C-suite anymore, you know, quietly 0:12:45.710 --> 0:12:51.140 quitting great resignation and the kind of the post-pandemic workforce 0:12:51.140 --> 0:12:54.620 won't be dictated to. And that way. And why should they? 0:12:54.710 --> 0:12:57.560 A business doesn't exist without its people and the people 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:01.220 don't have a job without the leadership. So partner together. 0:13:01.220 --> 0:13:04.550 And we're seeing this more and more, particularly in Australia, 0:13:04.550 --> 0:13:07.490 where the unions now are getting on board with us 0:13:07.490 --> 0:13:10.940 who've got Bunnings, their union is driving this Oxfam, their 0:13:10.940 --> 0:13:15.170 union is driving it and it's actually understanding that the 0:13:15.170 --> 0:13:20.420 benefits that we get for our employees with them having 0:13:20.420 --> 0:13:23.510 better wellbeing means that they are better at work. So 0:13:23.510 --> 0:13:26.270 that's been proven not just by our study. There are 0:13:26.270 --> 0:13:29.480 other studies that prove that wellbeing at work actually makes 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.800 your business better, but also from a people perspective, we 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:38.840 actually all deserve a better life. And so it's it's 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:42.350 the delicious circle of happiness where people are happier at work, 0:13:42.350 --> 0:13:43.939 so then they're happier at home. So then they bring 0:13:43.940 --> 0:13:46.010 a happier person to work, then they're happier at home, 0:13:46.010 --> 0:13:48.469 and then they bring that out into society and then 0:13:48.470 --> 0:13:49.670 they're just healthier, too. 0:13:50.390 --> 0:13:54.559 That was Charlotte Lockhart from the four day workweek. Let's 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:58.010 find out now how you get this to actually come 0:13:58.010 --> 0:14:00.950 together on the ground with one of the Australian companies 0:14:00.950 --> 0:14:05.030 who's tried it. Wendy Green is from Momentum Mental Health, 0:14:05.030 --> 0:14:08.689 which is a company in Toowoomba in southern Queensland. Wendy 0:14:08.690 --> 0:14:12.440 begin for us by describing the working culture at your company. 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.920 Before you began this trial, what did it look like? 0:14:16.110 --> 0:14:19.760 Right. So momentum mental health in Toowoomba, Queensland. We are 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:24.920 a small community mental health organisation. We rely on funds 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:30.950 from the Government and also philanthropic fundraising to operate essentially. 0:14:30.950 --> 0:14:36.110 So our small team of 12 people were basically working 0:14:36.110 --> 0:14:40.430 our butts off. There's more need than what we can 0:14:40.430 --> 0:14:44.690 cover and I would say that we were experiencing the 0:14:44.690 --> 0:14:50.450 very familiar staff rotation. Yeah, retaining staff is tricky in 0:14:50.450 --> 0:14:53.450 our industry and people burn out on the average of 0:14:53.450 --> 0:14:56.510 between sort of two and four years. You see quite 0:14:56.510 --> 0:15:01.340 a high rotation through the mental health system specifically. So 0:15:01.340 --> 0:15:05.810 we definitely were looking for better ways to reward our 0:15:05.810 --> 0:15:11.060 staff without necessarily having that beautiful slush fund of money 0:15:11.060 --> 0:15:13.730 to give everyone a pay rise. We wanted to reward 0:15:13.730 --> 0:15:19.250 this hard working team and also find a way to, yeah, 0:15:19.250 --> 0:15:20.060 retain them. 0:15:20.660 --> 0:15:23.360 So you guys do a lot of coaching and you 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.340 do a lot of client facing stuff. So you're, you're 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:30.200 having to juggle other people's schedules as well as your own. 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:35.450 How do you even go about managing workflows for implementing 0:15:35.450 --> 0:15:38.150 a four day workweek? That sounds really complicated. 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:43.040 You have amazing mentoring support through four day week global 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:46.580 when you go into one of these trials. And so 0:15:46.580 --> 0:15:48.950 a key thing for us was we did three months 0:15:48.950 --> 0:15:53.150 of pre-work and we created our own rules of engagement. 0:15:53.150 --> 0:15:56.540 And yes, we are a forward facing organisation. Closing one 0:15:56.540 --> 0:15:59.270 day a week just is not an option for momentum. 0:15:59.270 --> 0:16:03.260 So we tried. One of the other models that Andrew 0:16:03.260 --> 0:16:06.650 Barnes talks about quite a lot, which is where people 0:16:06.650 --> 0:16:09.620 do a smattering across the week. If you are a 0:16:09.620 --> 0:16:13.550 forward facing organisation, some of our staff chose to do 0:16:13.550 --> 0:16:16.729 shorter hours so they could do school pickups and then 0:16:16.730 --> 0:16:19.970 others of us chose a full day off. But they 0:16:19.970 --> 0:16:22.880 happened all the way across the week with one non-negotiable 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.010 day that we were all on site because we needed 0:16:25.010 --> 0:16:27.440 to make sure that there was one day where all 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.350 personnel were on site so we could do training and 0:16:30.350 --> 0:16:33.020 make sure that we connected with one another. That's a 0:16:33.020 --> 0:16:36.620 really key finding out of our rules of engagement. People 0:16:36.620 --> 0:16:40.670 were concerned about losing some of that authentic relationship with 0:16:40.670 --> 0:16:43.880 one another, so we made that a priority in our planning. 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.760 So there must have been some hiccups along the way. 0:16:47.060 --> 0:16:49.820 What were some of the failings that you've learned from? 0:16:50.060 --> 0:16:52.640 So the first thing was everyone put in their their 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.340 optimum day that they'd like off. And of course, most 0:16:55.340 --> 0:17:00.590 people chose Monday or Friday. Everyone wants a three day weekend. Obviously, 0:17:00.590 --> 0:17:03.620 that that couldn't happen. And we figured out along the 0:17:03.620 --> 0:17:07.940 way which days were our heavier days with programs and 0:17:07.940 --> 0:17:12.320 just the trends of people coming in for support around 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:16.460 mental health and wellbeing. It tended to be quite heavy 0:17:16.460 --> 0:17:19.580 on a Friday and so along the way we found 0:17:19.580 --> 0:17:24.490 ourselves quite lean on a few Fridays. And so, yeah, 0:17:24.490 --> 0:17:26.830 there certainly was moments where we were like, Oh, this 0:17:26.830 --> 0:17:29.530 isn't working, this isn't working, having four people having their 0:17:29.530 --> 0:17:32.980 gift day on a Friday. So we adjusted and pivoted 0:17:32.980 --> 0:17:36.130 and then as an organization all kind of figured out 0:17:36.130 --> 0:17:39.130 that other days would work. And it's funny, we've got 0:17:39.130 --> 0:17:41.709 quite a large number of people opting for Tuesdays and 0:17:41.710 --> 0:17:44.950 Wednesdays now because they've just seen how it works. And 0:17:44.950 --> 0:17:48.760 particularly with those of us who've got little kids. Often 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.430 a midweek appointment is an easy thing to get. If 0:17:51.430 --> 0:17:55.630 you've got speech things and reading groups and all the 0:17:55.630 --> 0:17:59.710 plethora of things that that children require, a midweek appointment 0:17:59.710 --> 0:18:01.899 is an easier one to get. So we've found that 0:18:01.900 --> 0:18:04.240 quite a few of our crew have just naturally now 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.959 fallen happily on a Tuesday, and they don't mind at 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.149 all that one day on a Monday to get things 0:18:10.150 --> 0:18:12.820 sorted and then they have their Tuesday off and then 0:18:12.820 --> 0:18:16.060 they power through the rest of their week. Another thing 0:18:16.060 --> 0:18:19.420 we also did was no meetings happen unless we have 0:18:19.420 --> 0:18:22.300 an agenda now, like we really worked on cutting the 0:18:22.300 --> 0:18:25.060 fat out of that watercooler chat that can go on 0:18:25.060 --> 0:18:29.560 for hours and we put in purposeful team lunches. So 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.790 we make sure that that that impromptu catch up still happens. 0:18:33.790 --> 0:18:36.250 But truly, we didn't realize how much time we were 0:18:36.250 --> 0:18:39.820 actually wasting and just those quick conversations in the hallway 0:18:39.850 --> 0:18:41.950 and not having an agenda for a meeting or even 0:18:41.950 --> 0:18:44.560 just turning up a couple of minutes late to a meeting. 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.830 It's amazing how much your productivity goes down with those 0:18:47.830 --> 0:18:51.670 tiny little incidences. So it's been great for us. We 0:18:51.670 --> 0:18:54.340 extended our trial for another six months actually, just to 0:18:54.340 --> 0:18:56.800 make sure we had a full year of data. Next 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.199 month we'll be at our 12 month mark and with 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.320 productivity up 20%, like there's no way we won't be 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.710 recommending that we move forward with this permanently. So that's exciting. 0:19:05.950 --> 0:19:10.390 That was Wendy Green from Momentum Mental Health. And there's 0:19:10.390 --> 0:19:13.690 going to be another Australasian trial which is kicking off 0:19:13.690 --> 0:19:17.290 in a few weeks time. They're recruiting right now. So 0:19:17.290 --> 0:19:19.480 if you're thinking this is something you'd like to tell 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.120 your boss about, or maybe you are the boss and 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.430 you want to give it a go, you can register 0:19:24.430 --> 0:19:34.609 right now over at four day week. Listener.