S1: A listener production.
S2: Hello, Katrina blowers and Tom Tilley here with you. And
S2: if you're relatively new to the Briefing first up, welcome
S2: and thank you for listening. We love having you with us,
S2: and we'd love to have you with us every day.
S2: So whether you're listening via Apple Podcasts or Spotify or
S2: another podcast app, if you could please hit subscribe and
S2: then you'll get the briefing in your feed every morning
S2: from 6 a.m. we give you a survey of the
S2: latest news and then a deep dive interview. Now, Tom,
S2: imagine if you were starting your workweek today.
S3: All right. So you're talking about this fabled four day
S3: work week. I hear so much about that never happens.
S2: Well, for some people, it actually has happened. 26 organisations
S2: across Australasia have been trialling this and the results are in.
S3: Right. So in this briefing today, we're going to hear
S3: how it's going in those companies that are giving it
S3: a try. You'll speak with the business in southern Queensland
S3: that's done it and apparently never looking back.
S4: Truly we didn't realise how much time we were actually
S4: wasting in just those quick conversations in the hallway or
S4: not having an agenda for a meeting or even just
S4: turning up a couple of minutes late to a meeting.
S4: It's amazing how much your productivity goes down with those
S4: tiny little incidences.
S2: Yeah, so they're absolutely loving it. And we're going to
S2: hear from the CEO of the four day workweek about
S2: how you can possibly bring it into your organization, too.
S2: But first, here are the headlines. It is Tuesday, the
S2: 20th of June.
S3: So the bride and the groom at the center of
S3: the wedding bus tragedy have made their first public statement.
S3: Mitchell Gaffney and Madeline Edsel thanked the community for the
S3: outpouring of love and support since the crash that killed
S3: ten of their wedding guests. They've said that the primary
S3: focus at this time is processing the tragedy and supporting
S3: our family and friends. Just a devastating situation for that
S3: whole community and the people that lost family members and
S3: also this couple, just unbelievable. The groom's parents have been
S3: posting on social media for action on seatbelts. So going
S3: a little bit beyond supporting their friends, making a point
S3: there as well.
S2: Yeah, I know that often you sort of look at
S2: this stuff and you think, oh, you feel really helpless.
S2: But there is a way that you can pledge some
S2: support by way of funds. Donors are being directed to
S2: the Rotaries, Hunter Valley, New South Wales Bus Tragedy Fund.
S2: That's going to help out the families of the victims.
S2: We'll all officially now be voting in a referendum on
S2: the Indigenous voice to Parliament between 2 and 6 months
S2: from now after legislation on The Voice passed through the
S2: Senate yesterday. Here's the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, Linda Burney.
S5: People in this country understand that things are not fair,
S5: things are unequal and the life outcomes for Aboriginal people
S5: are not correct. The voice is about helping us understand
S5: what the answers are.
S2: Yeah, so the most likely dates range from October 14th
S2: to the end of November. Anthony Albanese is expected to
S2: announce exactly when the referendum will be held at the
S2: annual Garma Festival, and that is Australia's biggest Indigenous festival
S2: that's happening in the first week of August.
S3: Yes, it's over a month till we find out the
S3: date and then several more months till we have the vote.
S3: I do, you know, look, I've put it out there before.
S3: I am a supporter of the voice. I will be
S3: voting yes. And the debate has has sort of gone
S3: on since January without that much new information being inserted
S3: in it. And you just see polling start to slowly
S3: support for the voice slowly fall away as the months
S3: go on. So I am concerned that it potentially should
S3: be happening sooner unless there's a major change once that
S3: date is set and and the campaign really ramps up.
S2: I think that's exactly what we're going to see. I mean,
S2: especially from the yes side of things, you know, we're
S2: going to see some advertising blitzes really begin hitting us
S2: in the next few weeks. You've got to remember that
S2: as well as having pretty big private war chests of
S2: funding on both sides, there's also public funding, so they've
S2: got to start using that.
S3: And the window of opportunity is closing for tens of
S3: thousands of people to take legal action over the Defense
S3: Department's use of forever chemicals, also known as pay. So
S3: there was a big settlement approved in the court in
S3: New South Wales yesterday, a $22 million settlement for the
S3: Wreck Bay Community and they've been devastated by these past
S3: toxins on the New South Wales south coast where they are.
S3: So there's 11 communities. Rick Bays, one of them who
S3: are launching class actions against the Defence Department for using
S3: these pollutants generally used in firefighting foams. And a lot
S3: of people weren't happy with this decision, though it sounds
S3: like a lot of money, $22 million. But they say
S3: it's nowhere near enough for the damage it's caused their community.
S2: We have a major search and rescue operation underway off
S2: the east coast of Canada after a tourist submarine visiting
S2: the Titanic shipwreck went missing. Unfortunately, we don't know how
S2: many people were on board or exactly when it got lost.
S2: What we do know is that the craft usually carries
S2: four days worth of oxygen on board. It has the
S2: capability of carrying five people. The Titanic sank in 1912.
S2: It's located nearly four kilometres under the water. It's become
S2: pretty popular for tourists to get in submarines. I mean,
S2: that sounds amazing, but not when things go wrong.
S3: Oh yeah. Look, as someone who is a little bit
S3: prone to claustrophobia, that does.
S6: Yes, sounds fun.
S3: And 3800m down into the ocean like that is just
S3: a crazy depth. And if you thought it was a
S3: little bit cold this morning, well, you're right, particularly if
S3: you're on the whole eastern side of Australia, basically. So
S3: two cold fronts have come in two days and temperatures
S3: have dropped below freezing in parts of Tassie, Victoria Act
S3: and New South Wales. It's going to get particularly cold
S3: in Canberra down to minus five. Katrina in your old hometown.
S2: Yeah, I remember chipping the ice off the windshield every
S2: morning in WA. You're not as cold, but you are
S2: going to cop some wet weather. A big rain band
S2: is going to soak you guys in WA every day
S2: until the weekend. I don't know what I'd prefer. Cold or.
S7: Wet.
S3: I'll take dry and cold any day. There's lots you
S3: can do. You can get out and exercising, including skiing,
S3: of course. So they were having a shocking early start
S3: to the season. The resorts couldn't even open. I think
S3: with the exception of Mount Buller. Certainly the New South
S3: Wales resorts couldn't open properly on opening weekend, but now
S3: they've had this massive dump and it looks like the
S3: middle of winter all of a sudden. So that's good news.
S2: Amazing. All right, Tom, we'll leave you there. We are
S2: about to get the lowdown on the four day workweek.
S2: Three day weekends. It sounds amazing, but does it work? Well,
S2: the results are in from the first ever Australasian trial
S2: of a four day workweek. So 26 different organisations jumped
S2: on board last August. They've been doing it for six
S2: months and we're about to find out how it went.
S2: We're going to hear from the brains behind this concept
S2: in just a second. We'll also get the gist of
S2: how you practically implement this with a whole bunch of
S2: different staff who want the same days off and how
S2: you reshuffle clients. Basically the nuts and bolts of it
S2: from a company who took part. But first, let's bring
S2: in Charlotte Lockhart, who's the managing director and founder of
S2: the Australasia Four Day Workweek. First up, why are you
S2: so passionate about the four day working week? And where
S2: did all of this begin for you?
S5: I mean, why.
S8: Not be passionate about working less? Look, Andrew Barnes, my partner,
S8: did a four day week in his business, perpetual Guardian,
S8: back in 2018. And it was a very big success,
S8: not only for our business, but we got a lot
S8: of media and attention from academics and companies and governments.
S8: And then of course, we had a pandemic. And then
S8: and through that, of course, we all changed our view
S8: around and expedited this whole idea of of changing the
S8: way that we work. And so we're we've ended up
S8: with four day week. Global is really just this process
S8: of doing it in our own business, talking to other
S8: businesses and academics. And then in 2022, we started running
S8: pilot programs around the world, which the research that has
S8: been announced as part of.
S2: Yes, let's talk about this research. So we've had six
S2: months of data in Australasia. 26 different organisations have jumped
S2: on board. How did it go?
S8: So the interesting thing about the Australasian data is it's
S8: very similar to the data that we've seen in the UK,
S8: Ireland and North America. And interestingly we've got a pilot
S8: running in South Africa at the moment and we just
S8: launched one in Brazil. So it would be very we're
S8: quite interested to see whether the data remains the same.
S8: But what it says is that it is entirely possible
S8: in our programmes we get people to focus in on
S8: productivity and so that you can look at how you
S8: can improve your business so that you can give people
S8: time off. This is not a case of just saying,
S8: Oh well, if you give people time off, your business
S8: will be better. That's possible. But you know, one also
S8: needs to be a lot more targeted about these things. Also,
S8: as we've driven through the process, we're no longer really
S8: talking about a three day weekend. We're talking about how
S8: can you do some form of meaningful reduction in time.
S8: And so we have a number of businesses now more
S8: and more joining our pilots that actually look at 180
S8: 100 rule, which is 100% pay, 80% time, 100% productivity.
S8: And it might be that they stay open five days
S8: a week. But then, you know, people work shorter hours
S8: or what is increasingly becoming popular and is what is
S8: what Perpetual Guardian does is it's a fully flexible but
S8: reduced work. And so therefore, people take the sort of
S8: time off that suits them, the business and their customers.
S2: How is it that you can get 100% productivity out
S2: of people? How does this actually work?
S8: So what we're saying is 100% of the productivity that
S8: you've already got and the reality is you've not got 100%
S8: productivity across your 37.5 or 40 hour week as things
S8: are now, because what happens in Parkinson's law says that
S8: work expands to the time that you make available to it,
S8: but also what happens in businesses that we actually have
S8: a lot of layering of things that don't necessarily add
S8: into the current requirement for productivity in a business, because
S8: we get very much, you know, this is the way
S8: we've always done it sort of behaviour, particularly for businesses
S8: that have been around for a while in startups. What
S8: we see is people looking for what is best practice
S8: so that I can ensure that I'm not driving myself
S8: into an early grave and I'm not, you know, making
S8: my people work ridiculous hours as well. When you look
S8: at your business and you go, wow, okay, so this
S8: is why we're really here and this is what our
S8: customers really want, then the majority of businesses find that
S8: they actually have wastage and that can be wastage and
S8: systems wastage and time wastage and all sorts of various things,
S8: or just running a production line in a different way.
S8: What we encourage the differences that we get bosses to
S8: partner with their people and actually let their people run
S8: the programme rather than going, right, well, this is how
S8: we're going to save some time and money because when
S8: you do that, when you say to people, I want
S8: you to be more productive, when you're getting time and
S8: motion people and all that people hear is you want
S8: me to do more with less? And layoffs are on
S8: the way. And you don't trust me when you say
S8: to people. Look, guys, we want you to be more
S8: productive because if we can improve productivity, you can go home.
S8: People go. Right. Let me think about that for a minute.
S8: I will come back with some good ideas. And that's
S8: the modern way we run the workforce now, isn't it?
S8: We don't dictate from the C-suite anymore, you know, quietly
S8: quitting great resignation and the kind of the post-pandemic workforce
S8: won't be dictated to. And that way. And why should they?
S8: A business doesn't exist without its people and the people
S8: don't have a job without the leadership. So partner together.
S8: And we're seeing this more and more, particularly in Australia,
S8: where the unions now are getting on board with us
S8: who've got Bunnings, their union is driving this Oxfam, their
S8: union is driving it and it's actually understanding that the
S8: benefits that we get for our employees with them having
S8: better wellbeing means that they are better at work. So
S8: that's been proven not just by our study. There are
S8: other studies that prove that wellbeing at work actually makes
S8: your business better, but also from a people perspective, we
S8: actually all deserve a better life. And so it's it's
S8: the delicious circle of happiness where people are happier at work,
S8: so then they're happier at home. So then they bring
S8: a happier person to work, then they're happier at home,
S8: and then they bring that out into society and then
S8: they're just healthier, too.
S2: That was Charlotte Lockhart from the four day workweek. Let's
S2: find out now how you get this to actually come
S2: together on the ground with one of the Australian companies
S2: who's tried it. Wendy Green is from Momentum Mental Health,
S2: which is a company in Toowoomba in southern Queensland. Wendy
S2: begin for us by describing the working culture at your company.
S2: Before you began this trial, what did it look like?
S4: Right. So momentum mental health in Toowoomba, Queensland. We are
S4: a small community mental health organisation. We rely on funds
S4: from the Government and also philanthropic fundraising to operate essentially.
S4: So our small team of 12 people were basically working
S4: our butts off. There's more need than what we can
S4: cover and I would say that we were experiencing the
S4: very familiar staff rotation. Yeah, retaining staff is tricky in
S4: our industry and people burn out on the average of
S4: between sort of two and four years. You see quite
S4: a high rotation through the mental health system specifically. So
S4: we definitely were looking for better ways to reward our
S4: staff without necessarily having that beautiful slush fund of money
S4: to give everyone a pay rise. We wanted to reward
S4: this hard working team and also find a way to, yeah,
S4: retain them.
S2: So you guys do a lot of coaching and you
S2: do a lot of client facing stuff. So you're, you're
S2: having to juggle other people's schedules as well as your own.
S2: How do you even go about managing workflows for implementing
S2: a four day workweek? That sounds really complicated.
S4: You have amazing mentoring support through four day week global
S4: when you go into one of these trials. And so
S4: a key thing for us was we did three months
S4: of pre-work and we created our own rules of engagement.
S4: And yes, we are a forward facing organisation. Closing one
S4: day a week just is not an option for momentum.
S4: So we tried. One of the other models that Andrew
S4: Barnes talks about quite a lot, which is where people
S4: do a smattering across the week. If you are a
S4: forward facing organisation, some of our staff chose to do
S4: shorter hours so they could do school pickups and then
S4: others of us chose a full day off. But they
S4: happened all the way across the week with one non-negotiable
S4: day that we were all on site because we needed
S4: to make sure that there was one day where all
S4: personnel were on site so we could do training and
S4: make sure that we connected with one another. That's a
S4: really key finding out of our rules of engagement. People
S4: were concerned about losing some of that authentic relationship with
S4: one another, so we made that a priority in our planning.
S2: So there must have been some hiccups along the way.
S2: What were some of the failings that you've learned from?
S4: So the first thing was everyone put in their their
S4: optimum day that they'd like off. And of course, most
S4: people chose Monday or Friday. Everyone wants a three day weekend. Obviously,
S4: that that couldn't happen. And we figured out along the
S4: way which days were our heavier days with programs and
S4: just the trends of people coming in for support around
S4: mental health and wellbeing. It tended to be quite heavy
S4: on a Friday and so along the way we found
S4: ourselves quite lean on a few Fridays. And so, yeah,
S4: there certainly was moments where we were like, Oh, this
S4: isn't working, this isn't working, having four people having their
S4: gift day on a Friday. So we adjusted and pivoted
S4: and then as an organization all kind of figured out
S4: that other days would work. And it's funny, we've got
S4: quite a large number of people opting for Tuesdays and
S4: Wednesdays now because they've just seen how it works. And
S4: particularly with those of us who've got little kids. Often
S4: a midweek appointment is an easy thing to get. If
S4: you've got speech things and reading groups and all the
S4: plethora of things that that children require, a midweek appointment
S4: is an easier one to get. So we've found that
S4: quite a few of our crew have just naturally now
S4: fallen happily on a Tuesday, and they don't mind at
S4: all that one day on a Monday to get things
S4: sorted and then they have their Tuesday off and then
S4: they power through the rest of their week. Another thing
S4: we also did was no meetings happen unless we have
S4: an agenda now, like we really worked on cutting the
S4: fat out of that watercooler chat that can go on
S4: for hours and we put in purposeful team lunches. So
S4: we make sure that that that impromptu catch up still happens.
S4: But truly, we didn't realize how much time we were
S4: actually wasting and just those quick conversations in the hallway
S4: and not having an agenda for a meeting or even
S4: just turning up a couple of minutes late to a meeting.
S4: It's amazing how much your productivity goes down with those
S4: tiny little incidences. So it's been great for us. We
S4: extended our trial for another six months actually, just to
S4: make sure we had a full year of data. Next
S4: month we'll be at our 12 month mark and with
S4: productivity up 20%, like there's no way we won't be
S4: recommending that we move forward with this permanently. So that's exciting.
S2: That was Wendy Green from Momentum Mental Health. And there's
S2: going to be another Australasian trial which is kicking off
S2: in a few weeks time. They're recruiting right now. So
S2: if you're thinking this is something you'd like to tell
S2: your boss about, or maybe you are the boss and
S2: you want to give it a go, you can register
S2: right now over at four day week. Listener.