1 00:00:02,570 --> 00:00:04,250 S1: A listener production. 2 00:00:06,350 --> 00:00:09,740 S2: Hello, Katrina blowers and Tom Tilley here with you. And 3 00:00:09,740 --> 00:00:12,890 S2: if you're relatively new to the Briefing first up, welcome 4 00:00:12,890 --> 00:00:16,340 S2: and thank you for listening. We love having you with us, 5 00:00:16,340 --> 00:00:17,930 S2: and we'd love to have you with us every day. 6 00:00:17,930 --> 00:00:21,290 S2: So whether you're listening via Apple Podcasts or Spotify or 7 00:00:21,290 --> 00:00:24,950 S2: another podcast app, if you could please hit subscribe and 8 00:00:24,950 --> 00:00:26,960 S2: then you'll get the briefing in your feed every morning 9 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,360 S2: from 6 a.m. we give you a survey of the 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,560 S2: latest news and then a deep dive interview. Now, Tom, 11 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,040 S2: imagine if you were starting your workweek today. 12 00:00:37,130 --> 00:00:40,250 S3: All right. So you're talking about this fabled four day 13 00:00:40,250 --> 00:00:43,880 S3: work week. I hear so much about that never happens. 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:49,070 S2: Well, for some people, it actually has happened. 26 organisations 15 00:00:49,070 --> 00:00:54,350 S2: across Australasia have been trialling this and the results are in. 16 00:00:54,590 --> 00:00:56,840 S3: Right. So in this briefing today, we're going to hear 17 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,150 S3: how it's going in those companies that are giving it 18 00:00:59,150 --> 00:01:02,480 S3: a try. You'll speak with the business in southern Queensland 19 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,369 S3: that's done it and apparently never looking back. 20 00:01:06,380 --> 00:01:08,660 S4: Truly we didn't realise how much time we were actually 21 00:01:08,660 --> 00:01:12,030 S4: wasting in just those quick conversations in the hallway or 22 00:01:12,050 --> 00:01:14,270 S4: not having an agenda for a meeting or even just 23 00:01:14,270 --> 00:01:16,670 S4: turning up a couple of minutes late to a meeting. 24 00:01:16,970 --> 00:01:19,940 S4: It's amazing how much your productivity goes down with those 25 00:01:19,940 --> 00:01:21,649 S4: tiny little incidences. 26 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,170 S2: Yeah, so they're absolutely loving it. And we're going to 27 00:01:24,170 --> 00:01:27,020 S2: hear from the CEO of the four day workweek about 28 00:01:27,020 --> 00:01:30,470 S2: how you can possibly bring it into your organization, too. 29 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,709 S2: But first, here are the headlines. It is Tuesday, the 30 00:01:33,709 --> 00:01:34,700 S2: 20th of June. 31 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,180 S3: So the bride and the groom at the center of 32 00:01:39,180 --> 00:01:42,830 S3: the wedding bus tragedy have made their first public statement. 33 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,350 S3: Mitchell Gaffney and Madeline Edsel thanked the community for the 34 00:01:46,350 --> 00:01:49,500 S3: outpouring of love and support since the crash that killed 35 00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:52,740 S3: ten of their wedding guests. They've said that the primary 36 00:01:52,740 --> 00:01:56,910 S3: focus at this time is processing the tragedy and supporting 37 00:01:56,910 --> 00:02:01,740 S3: our family and friends. Just a devastating situation for that 38 00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:06,060 S3: whole community and the people that lost family members and 39 00:02:06,060 --> 00:02:09,840 S3: also this couple, just unbelievable. The groom's parents have been 40 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,470 S3: posting on social media for action on seatbelts. So going 41 00:02:13,770 --> 00:02:16,050 S3: a little bit beyond supporting their friends, making a point 42 00:02:16,050 --> 00:02:16,950 S3: there as well. 43 00:02:17,220 --> 00:02:20,040 S2: Yeah, I know that often you sort of look at 44 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,679 S2: this stuff and you think, oh, you feel really helpless. 45 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,110 S2: But there is a way that you can pledge some 46 00:02:25,110 --> 00:02:28,830 S2: support by way of funds. Donors are being directed to 47 00:02:28,830 --> 00:02:32,669 S2: the Rotaries, Hunter Valley, New South Wales Bus Tragedy Fund. 48 00:02:32,850 --> 00:02:36,510 S2: That's going to help out the families of the victims. 49 00:02:37,260 --> 00:02:40,470 S2: We'll all officially now be voting in a referendum on 50 00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:43,950 S2: the Indigenous voice to Parliament between 2 and 6 months 51 00:02:43,950 --> 00:02:47,100 S2: from now after legislation on The Voice passed through the 52 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:50,700 S2: Senate yesterday. Here's the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, Linda Burney. 53 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:56,000 S5: People in this country understand that things are not fair, 54 00:02:56,010 --> 00:03:00,150 S5: things are unequal and the life outcomes for Aboriginal people 55 00:03:00,150 --> 00:03:05,730 S5: are not correct. The voice is about helping us understand 56 00:03:05,730 --> 00:03:07,200 S5: what the answers are. 57 00:03:07,770 --> 00:03:11,820 S2: Yeah, so the most likely dates range from October 14th 58 00:03:11,820 --> 00:03:16,140 S2: to the end of November. Anthony Albanese is expected to 59 00:03:16,139 --> 00:03:18,990 S2: announce exactly when the referendum will be held at the 60 00:03:19,020 --> 00:03:23,730 S2: annual Garma Festival, and that is Australia's biggest Indigenous festival 61 00:03:23,730 --> 00:03:25,980 S2: that's happening in the first week of August. 62 00:03:26,340 --> 00:03:28,560 S3: Yes, it's over a month till we find out the 63 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,500 S3: date and then several more months till we have the vote. 64 00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:34,559 S3: I do, you know, look, I've put it out there before. 65 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,360 S3: I am a supporter of the voice. I will be 66 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,740 S3: voting yes. And the debate has has sort of gone 67 00:03:40,740 --> 00:03:44,550 S3: on since January without that much new information being inserted 68 00:03:44,550 --> 00:03:47,580 S3: in it. And you just see polling start to slowly 69 00:03:47,940 --> 00:03:50,820 S3: support for the voice slowly fall away as the months 70 00:03:50,820 --> 00:03:54,450 S3: go on. So I am concerned that it potentially should 71 00:03:54,450 --> 00:03:56,940 S3: be happening sooner unless there's a major change once that 72 00:03:56,940 --> 00:04:00,180 S3: date is set and and the campaign really ramps up. 73 00:04:00,690 --> 00:04:03,540 S2: I think that's exactly what we're going to see. I mean, 74 00:04:03,540 --> 00:04:07,440 S2: especially from the yes side of things, you know, we're 75 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,520 S2: going to see some advertising blitzes really begin hitting us 76 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,040 S2: in the next few weeks. You've got to remember that 77 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,919 S2: as well as having pretty big private war chests of 78 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,669 S2: funding on both sides, there's also public funding, so they've 79 00:04:20,670 --> 00:04:21,870 S2: got to start using that. 80 00:04:22,930 --> 00:04:25,450 S3: And the window of opportunity is closing for tens of 81 00:04:25,450 --> 00:04:28,810 S3: thousands of people to take legal action over the Defense 82 00:04:28,810 --> 00:04:32,860 S3: Department's use of forever chemicals, also known as pay. So 83 00:04:32,860 --> 00:04:35,620 S3: there was a big settlement approved in the court in 84 00:04:35,620 --> 00:04:38,830 S3: New South Wales yesterday, a $22 million settlement for the 85 00:04:38,830 --> 00:04:42,580 S3: Wreck Bay Community and they've been devastated by these past 86 00:04:42,670 --> 00:04:45,700 S3: toxins on the New South Wales south coast where they are. 87 00:04:45,940 --> 00:04:49,830 S3: So there's 11 communities. Rick Bays, one of them who 88 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,170 S3: are launching class actions against the Defence Department for using 89 00:04:53,170 --> 00:04:57,940 S3: these pollutants generally used in firefighting foams. And a lot 90 00:04:57,940 --> 00:05:01,120 S3: of people weren't happy with this decision, though it sounds 91 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,430 S3: like a lot of money, $22 million. But they say 92 00:05:03,430 --> 00:05:07,300 S3: it's nowhere near enough for the damage it's caused their community. 93 00:05:08,410 --> 00:05:11,920 S2: We have a major search and rescue operation underway off 94 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,640 S2: the east coast of Canada after a tourist submarine visiting 95 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,260 S2: the Titanic shipwreck went missing. Unfortunately, we don't know how 96 00:05:20,260 --> 00:05:24,280 S2: many people were on board or exactly when it got lost. 97 00:05:24,550 --> 00:05:26,740 S2: What we do know is that the craft usually carries 98 00:05:26,740 --> 00:05:29,289 S2: four days worth of oxygen on board. It has the 99 00:05:29,290 --> 00:05:34,540 S2: capability of carrying five people. The Titanic sank in 1912. 100 00:05:34,540 --> 00:05:39,910 S2: It's located nearly four kilometres under the water. It's become 101 00:05:39,910 --> 00:05:43,180 S2: pretty popular for tourists to get in submarines. I mean, 102 00:05:43,180 --> 00:05:46,510 S2: that sounds amazing, but not when things go wrong. 103 00:05:46,510 --> 00:05:48,880 S3: Oh yeah. Look, as someone who is a little bit 104 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,849 S3: prone to claustrophobia, that does. 105 00:05:50,890 --> 00:05:52,690 S6: Yes, sounds fun. 106 00:05:52,690 --> 00:05:58,450 S3: And 3800m down into the ocean like that is just 107 00:05:58,450 --> 00:06:04,210 S3: a crazy depth. And if you thought it was a 108 00:06:04,210 --> 00:06:07,599 S3: little bit cold this morning, well, you're right, particularly if 109 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,960 S3: you're on the whole eastern side of Australia, basically. So 110 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,039 S3: two cold fronts have come in two days and temperatures 111 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:20,260 S3: have dropped below freezing in parts of Tassie, Victoria Act 112 00:06:20,260 --> 00:06:23,890 S3: and New South Wales. It's going to get particularly cold 113 00:06:23,890 --> 00:06:28,540 S3: in Canberra down to minus five. Katrina in your old hometown. 114 00:06:29,110 --> 00:06:32,320 S2: Yeah, I remember chipping the ice off the windshield every 115 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,650 S2: morning in WA. You're not as cold, but you are 116 00:06:35,650 --> 00:06:38,800 S2: going to cop some wet weather. A big rain band 117 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,890 S2: is going to soak you guys in WA every day 118 00:06:41,890 --> 00:06:44,920 S2: until the weekend. I don't know what I'd prefer. Cold or. 119 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:45,400 S7: Wet. 120 00:06:46,810 --> 00:06:48,910 S3: I'll take dry and cold any day. There's lots you 121 00:06:48,910 --> 00:06:53,620 S3: can do. You can get out and exercising, including skiing, 122 00:06:53,620 --> 00:06:56,710 S3: of course. So they were having a shocking early start 123 00:06:56,710 --> 00:07:00,250 S3: to the season. The resorts couldn't even open. I think 124 00:07:00,250 --> 00:07:02,980 S3: with the exception of Mount Buller. Certainly the New South 125 00:07:02,980 --> 00:07:06,520 S3: Wales resorts couldn't open properly on opening weekend, but now 126 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,010 S3: they've had this massive dump and it looks like the 127 00:07:09,010 --> 00:07:11,530 S3: middle of winter all of a sudden. So that's good news. 128 00:07:11,830 --> 00:07:15,460 S2: Amazing. All right, Tom, we'll leave you there. We are 129 00:07:15,460 --> 00:07:18,400 S2: about to get the lowdown on the four day workweek. 130 00:07:25,740 --> 00:07:31,440 S2: Three day weekends. It sounds amazing, but does it work? Well, 131 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,710 S2: the results are in from the first ever Australasian trial 132 00:07:34,710 --> 00:07:39,000 S2: of a four day workweek. So 26 different organisations jumped 133 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,250 S2: on board last August. They've been doing it for six 134 00:07:41,250 --> 00:07:44,580 S2: months and we're about to find out how it went. 135 00:07:44,700 --> 00:07:47,550 S2: We're going to hear from the brains behind this concept 136 00:07:47,550 --> 00:07:49,800 S2: in just a second. We'll also get the gist of 137 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,280 S2: how you practically implement this with a whole bunch of 138 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,970 S2: different staff who want the same days off and how 139 00:07:56,970 --> 00:07:59,850 S2: you reshuffle clients. Basically the nuts and bolts of it 140 00:07:59,850 --> 00:08:03,270 S2: from a company who took part. But first, let's bring 141 00:08:03,270 --> 00:08:06,870 S2: in Charlotte Lockhart, who's the managing director and founder of 142 00:08:06,870 --> 00:08:11,190 S2: the Australasia Four Day Workweek. First up, why are you 143 00:08:11,190 --> 00:08:14,640 S2: so passionate about the four day working week? And where 144 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,440 S2: did all of this begin for you? 145 00:08:16,620 --> 00:08:17,190 S5: I mean, why. 146 00:08:17,190 --> 00:08:20,820 S8: Not be passionate about working less? Look, Andrew Barnes, my partner, 147 00:08:21,210 --> 00:08:24,120 S8: did a four day week in his business, perpetual Guardian, 148 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,290 S8: back in 2018. And it was a very big success, 149 00:08:28,290 --> 00:08:30,390 S8: not only for our business, but we got a lot 150 00:08:30,390 --> 00:08:34,560 S8: of media and attention from academics and companies and governments. 151 00:08:34,650 --> 00:08:38,010 S8: And then of course, we had a pandemic. And then 152 00:08:38,190 --> 00:08:41,730 S8: and through that, of course, we all changed our view 153 00:08:41,730 --> 00:08:45,480 S8: around and expedited this whole idea of of changing the 154 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,199 S8: way that we work. And so we're we've ended up 155 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,050 S8: with four day week. Global is really just this process 156 00:08:52,050 --> 00:08:54,390 S8: of doing it in our own business, talking to other 157 00:08:54,390 --> 00:08:58,319 S8: businesses and academics. And then in 2022, we started running 158 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,280 S8: pilot programs around the world, which the research that has 159 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:03,930 S8: been announced as part of. 160 00:09:04,020 --> 00:09:07,320 S2: Yes, let's talk about this research. So we've had six 161 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:12,209 S2: months of data in Australasia. 26 different organisations have jumped 162 00:09:12,210 --> 00:09:14,250 S2: on board. How did it go? 163 00:09:14,460 --> 00:09:17,430 S8: So the interesting thing about the Australasian data is it's 164 00:09:17,429 --> 00:09:20,850 S8: very similar to the data that we've seen in the UK, 165 00:09:20,850 --> 00:09:25,230 S8: Ireland and North America. And interestingly we've got a pilot 166 00:09:25,230 --> 00:09:27,570 S8: running in South Africa at the moment and we just 167 00:09:27,570 --> 00:09:30,060 S8: launched one in Brazil. So it would be very we're 168 00:09:30,059 --> 00:09:32,880 S8: quite interested to see whether the data remains the same. 169 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,090 S8: But what it says is that it is entirely possible 170 00:09:36,090 --> 00:09:39,300 S8: in our programmes we get people to focus in on 171 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:42,360 S8: productivity and so that you can look at how you 172 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,150 S8: can improve your business so that you can give people 173 00:09:45,150 --> 00:09:47,910 S8: time off. This is not a case of just saying, 174 00:09:47,910 --> 00:09:49,469 S8: Oh well, if you give people time off, your business 175 00:09:49,470 --> 00:09:53,730 S8: will be better. That's possible. But you know, one also 176 00:09:53,730 --> 00:09:56,910 S8: needs to be a lot more targeted about these things. Also, 177 00:09:56,910 --> 00:10:00,059 S8: as we've driven through the process, we're no longer really 178 00:10:00,059 --> 00:10:02,910 S8: talking about a three day weekend. We're talking about how 179 00:10:02,910 --> 00:10:06,480 S8: can you do some form of meaningful reduction in time. 180 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,180 S8: And so we have a number of businesses now more 181 00:10:09,179 --> 00:10:14,010 S8: and more joining our pilots that actually look at 180 182 00:10:14,010 --> 00:10:19,800 S8: 100 rule, which is 100% pay, 80% time, 100% productivity. 183 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,170 S8: And it might be that they stay open five days 184 00:10:22,170 --> 00:10:24,809 S8: a week. But then, you know, people work shorter hours 185 00:10:24,809 --> 00:10:28,170 S8: or what is increasingly becoming popular and is what is 186 00:10:28,170 --> 00:10:31,410 S8: what Perpetual Guardian does is it's a fully flexible but 187 00:10:31,410 --> 00:10:34,949 S8: reduced work. And so therefore, people take the sort of 188 00:10:34,950 --> 00:10:38,370 S8: time off that suits them, the business and their customers. 189 00:10:38,730 --> 00:10:43,979 S2: How is it that you can get 100% productivity out 190 00:10:43,980 --> 00:10:46,610 S2: of people? How does this actually work? 191 00:10:46,620 --> 00:10:48,870 S8: So what we're saying is 100% of the productivity that 192 00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:52,620 S8: you've already got and the reality is you've not got 100% 193 00:10:52,620 --> 00:10:57,030 S8: productivity across your 37.5 or 40 hour week as things 194 00:10:57,030 --> 00:11:00,840 S8: are now, because what happens in Parkinson's law says that 195 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,449 S8: work expands to the time that you make available to it, 196 00:11:03,450 --> 00:11:06,690 S8: but also what happens in businesses that we actually have 197 00:11:06,690 --> 00:11:11,040 S8: a lot of layering of things that don't necessarily add 198 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:16,860 S8: into the current requirement for productivity in a business, because 199 00:11:16,860 --> 00:11:18,930 S8: we get very much, you know, this is the way 200 00:11:18,929 --> 00:11:22,380 S8: we've always done it sort of behaviour, particularly for businesses 201 00:11:22,380 --> 00:11:25,319 S8: that have been around for a while in startups. What 202 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,410 S8: we see is people looking for what is best practice 203 00:11:28,410 --> 00:11:32,699 S8: so that I can ensure that I'm not driving myself 204 00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:35,429 S8: into an early grave and I'm not, you know, making 205 00:11:35,429 --> 00:11:39,720 S8: my people work ridiculous hours as well. When you look 206 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,180 S8: at your business and you go, wow, okay, so this 207 00:11:42,179 --> 00:11:44,490 S8: is why we're really here and this is what our 208 00:11:44,490 --> 00:11:49,349 S8: customers really want, then the majority of businesses find that 209 00:11:49,350 --> 00:11:53,130 S8: they actually have wastage and that can be wastage and 210 00:11:53,130 --> 00:11:57,480 S8: systems wastage and time wastage and all sorts of various things, 211 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,870 S8: or just running a production line in a different way. 212 00:12:00,870 --> 00:12:04,559 S8: What we encourage the differences that we get bosses to 213 00:12:04,980 --> 00:12:08,400 S8: partner with their people and actually let their people run 214 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,459 S8: the programme rather than going, right, well, this is how 215 00:12:11,460 --> 00:12:13,800 S8: we're going to save some time and money because when 216 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,510 S8: you do that, when you say to people, I want 217 00:12:15,510 --> 00:12:17,430 S8: you to be more productive, when you're getting time and 218 00:12:17,429 --> 00:12:20,579 S8: motion people and all that people hear is you want 219 00:12:20,580 --> 00:12:22,980 S8: me to do more with less? And layoffs are on 220 00:12:22,980 --> 00:12:26,059 S8: the way. And you don't trust me when you say 221 00:12:26,059 --> 00:12:28,309 S8: to people. Look, guys, we want you to be more 222 00:12:28,309 --> 00:12:32,210 S8: productive because if we can improve productivity, you can go home. 223 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,479 S8: People go. Right. Let me think about that for a minute. 224 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,959 S8: I will come back with some good ideas. And that's 225 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,520 S8: the modern way we run the workforce now, isn't it? 226 00:12:41,570 --> 00:12:45,710 S8: We don't dictate from the C-suite anymore, you know, quietly 227 00:12:45,710 --> 00:12:51,140 S8: quitting great resignation and the kind of the post-pandemic workforce 228 00:12:51,140 --> 00:12:54,620 S8: won't be dictated to. And that way. And why should they? 229 00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:57,560 S8: A business doesn't exist without its people and the people 230 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,220 S8: don't have a job without the leadership. So partner together. 231 00:13:01,220 --> 00:13:04,550 S8: And we're seeing this more and more, particularly in Australia, 232 00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:07,490 S8: where the unions now are getting on board with us 233 00:13:07,490 --> 00:13:10,940 S8: who've got Bunnings, their union is driving this Oxfam, their 234 00:13:10,940 --> 00:13:15,170 S8: union is driving it and it's actually understanding that the 235 00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:20,420 S8: benefits that we get for our employees with them having 236 00:13:20,420 --> 00:13:23,510 S8: better wellbeing means that they are better at work. So 237 00:13:23,510 --> 00:13:26,270 S8: that's been proven not just by our study. There are 238 00:13:26,270 --> 00:13:29,480 S8: other studies that prove that wellbeing at work actually makes 239 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,800 S8: your business better, but also from a people perspective, we 240 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:38,840 S8: actually all deserve a better life. And so it's it's 241 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,350 S8: the delicious circle of happiness where people are happier at work, 242 00:13:42,350 --> 00:13:43,939 S8: so then they're happier at home. So then they bring 243 00:13:43,940 --> 00:13:46,010 S8: a happier person to work, then they're happier at home, 244 00:13:46,010 --> 00:13:48,469 S8: and then they bring that out into society and then 245 00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:49,670 S8: they're just healthier, too. 246 00:13:50,390 --> 00:13:54,559 S2: That was Charlotte Lockhart from the four day workweek. Let's 247 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,010 S2: find out now how you get this to actually come 248 00:13:58,010 --> 00:14:00,950 S2: together on the ground with one of the Australian companies 249 00:14:00,950 --> 00:14:05,030 S2: who's tried it. Wendy Green is from Momentum Mental Health, 250 00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:08,689 S2: which is a company in Toowoomba in southern Queensland. Wendy 251 00:14:08,690 --> 00:14:12,440 S2: begin for us by describing the working culture at your company. 252 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,920 S2: Before you began this trial, what did it look like? 253 00:14:16,110 --> 00:14:19,760 S4: Right. So momentum mental health in Toowoomba, Queensland. We are 254 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:24,920 S4: a small community mental health organisation. We rely on funds 255 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:30,950 S4: from the Government and also philanthropic fundraising to operate essentially. 256 00:14:30,950 --> 00:14:36,110 S4: So our small team of 12 people were basically working 257 00:14:36,110 --> 00:14:40,430 S4: our butts off. There's more need than what we can 258 00:14:40,430 --> 00:14:44,690 S4: cover and I would say that we were experiencing the 259 00:14:44,690 --> 00:14:50,450 S4: very familiar staff rotation. Yeah, retaining staff is tricky in 260 00:14:50,450 --> 00:14:53,450 S4: our industry and people burn out on the average of 261 00:14:53,450 --> 00:14:56,510 S4: between sort of two and four years. You see quite 262 00:14:56,510 --> 00:15:01,340 S4: a high rotation through the mental health system specifically. So 263 00:15:01,340 --> 00:15:05,810 S4: we definitely were looking for better ways to reward our 264 00:15:05,810 --> 00:15:11,060 S4: staff without necessarily having that beautiful slush fund of money 265 00:15:11,060 --> 00:15:13,730 S4: to give everyone a pay rise. We wanted to reward 266 00:15:13,730 --> 00:15:19,250 S4: this hard working team and also find a way to, yeah, 267 00:15:19,250 --> 00:15:20,060 S4: retain them. 268 00:15:20,660 --> 00:15:23,360 S2: So you guys do a lot of coaching and you 269 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,340 S2: do a lot of client facing stuff. So you're, you're 270 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,200 S2: having to juggle other people's schedules as well as your own. 271 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:35,450 S2: How do you even go about managing workflows for implementing 272 00:15:35,450 --> 00:15:38,150 S2: a four day workweek? That sounds really complicated. 273 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,040 S4: You have amazing mentoring support through four day week global 274 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,580 S4: when you go into one of these trials. And so 275 00:15:46,580 --> 00:15:48,950 S4: a key thing for us was we did three months 276 00:15:48,950 --> 00:15:53,150 S4: of pre-work and we created our own rules of engagement. 277 00:15:53,150 --> 00:15:56,540 S4: And yes, we are a forward facing organisation. Closing one 278 00:15:56,540 --> 00:15:59,270 S4: day a week just is not an option for momentum. 279 00:15:59,270 --> 00:16:03,260 S4: So we tried. One of the other models that Andrew 280 00:16:03,260 --> 00:16:06,650 S4: Barnes talks about quite a lot, which is where people 281 00:16:06,650 --> 00:16:09,620 S4: do a smattering across the week. If you are a 282 00:16:09,620 --> 00:16:13,550 S4: forward facing organisation, some of our staff chose to do 283 00:16:13,550 --> 00:16:16,729 S4: shorter hours so they could do school pickups and then 284 00:16:16,730 --> 00:16:19,970 S4: others of us chose a full day off. But they 285 00:16:19,970 --> 00:16:22,880 S4: happened all the way across the week with one non-negotiable 286 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,010 S4: day that we were all on site because we needed 287 00:16:25,010 --> 00:16:27,440 S4: to make sure that there was one day where all 288 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,350 S4: personnel were on site so we could do training and 289 00:16:30,350 --> 00:16:33,020 S4: make sure that we connected with one another. That's a 290 00:16:33,020 --> 00:16:36,620 S4: really key finding out of our rules of engagement. People 291 00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:40,670 S4: were concerned about losing some of that authentic relationship with 292 00:16:40,670 --> 00:16:43,880 S4: one another, so we made that a priority in our planning. 293 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,760 S2: So there must have been some hiccups along the way. 294 00:16:47,060 --> 00:16:49,820 S2: What were some of the failings that you've learned from? 295 00:16:50,060 --> 00:16:52,640 S4: So the first thing was everyone put in their their 296 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,340 S4: optimum day that they'd like off. And of course, most 297 00:16:55,340 --> 00:17:00,590 S4: people chose Monday or Friday. Everyone wants a three day weekend. Obviously, 298 00:17:00,590 --> 00:17:03,620 S4: that that couldn't happen. And we figured out along the 299 00:17:03,620 --> 00:17:07,940 S4: way which days were our heavier days with programs and 300 00:17:07,940 --> 00:17:12,320 S4: just the trends of people coming in for support around 301 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,460 S4: mental health and wellbeing. It tended to be quite heavy 302 00:17:16,460 --> 00:17:19,580 S4: on a Friday and so along the way we found 303 00:17:19,580 --> 00:17:24,490 S4: ourselves quite lean on a few Fridays. And so, yeah, 304 00:17:24,490 --> 00:17:26,830 S4: there certainly was moments where we were like, Oh, this 305 00:17:26,830 --> 00:17:29,530 S4: isn't working, this isn't working, having four people having their 306 00:17:29,530 --> 00:17:32,980 S4: gift day on a Friday. So we adjusted and pivoted 307 00:17:32,980 --> 00:17:36,130 S4: and then as an organization all kind of figured out 308 00:17:36,130 --> 00:17:39,130 S4: that other days would work. And it's funny, we've got 309 00:17:39,130 --> 00:17:41,709 S4: quite a large number of people opting for Tuesdays and 310 00:17:41,710 --> 00:17:44,950 S4: Wednesdays now because they've just seen how it works. And 311 00:17:44,950 --> 00:17:48,760 S4: particularly with those of us who've got little kids. Often 312 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,430 S4: a midweek appointment is an easy thing to get. If 313 00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:55,630 S4: you've got speech things and reading groups and all the 314 00:17:55,630 --> 00:17:59,710 S4: plethora of things that that children require, a midweek appointment 315 00:17:59,710 --> 00:18:01,899 S4: is an easier one to get. So we've found that 316 00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:04,240 S4: quite a few of our crew have just naturally now 317 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,959 S4: fallen happily on a Tuesday, and they don't mind at 318 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,149 S4: all that one day on a Monday to get things 319 00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:12,820 S4: sorted and then they have their Tuesday off and then 320 00:18:12,820 --> 00:18:16,060 S4: they power through the rest of their week. Another thing 321 00:18:16,060 --> 00:18:19,420 S4: we also did was no meetings happen unless we have 322 00:18:19,420 --> 00:18:22,300 S4: an agenda now, like we really worked on cutting the 323 00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:25,060 S4: fat out of that watercooler chat that can go on 324 00:18:25,060 --> 00:18:29,560 S4: for hours and we put in purposeful team lunches. So 325 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,790 S4: we make sure that that that impromptu catch up still happens. 326 00:18:33,790 --> 00:18:36,250 S4: But truly, we didn't realize how much time we were 327 00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:39,820 S4: actually wasting and just those quick conversations in the hallway 328 00:18:39,850 --> 00:18:41,950 S4: and not having an agenda for a meeting or even 329 00:18:41,950 --> 00:18:44,560 S4: just turning up a couple of minutes late to a meeting. 330 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,830 S4: It's amazing how much your productivity goes down with those 331 00:18:47,830 --> 00:18:51,670 S4: tiny little incidences. So it's been great for us. We 332 00:18:51,670 --> 00:18:54,340 S4: extended our trial for another six months actually, just to 333 00:18:54,340 --> 00:18:56,800 S4: make sure we had a full year of data. Next 334 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,199 S4: month we'll be at our 12 month mark and with 335 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,320 S4: productivity up 20%, like there's no way we won't be 336 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,710 S4: recommending that we move forward with this permanently. So that's exciting. 337 00:19:05,950 --> 00:19:10,390 S2: That was Wendy Green from Momentum Mental Health. And there's 338 00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:13,690 S2: going to be another Australasian trial which is kicking off 339 00:19:13,690 --> 00:19:17,290 S2: in a few weeks time. They're recruiting right now. So 340 00:19:17,290 --> 00:19:19,480 S2: if you're thinking this is something you'd like to tell 341 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,120 S2: your boss about, or maybe you are the boss and 342 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,430 S2: you want to give it a go, you can register 343 00:19:24,430 --> 00:19:34,609 S2: right now over at four day week. Listener.