1 00:00:02,590 --> 00:00:04,269 S1: A listener production. 2 00:00:08,010 --> 00:00:10,350 S2: In this episode of The Briefing, a man who is 3 00:00:10,350 --> 00:00:13,590 S2: becoming one of the most powerful Australians in the world, 4 00:00:13,830 --> 00:00:18,650 S2: a man we don't really know that much about Lachlan Murdoch. 5 00:00:18,660 --> 00:00:22,530 S3: He is incredibly private. He has done a remarkable job, 6 00:00:22,530 --> 00:00:25,980 S3: given he's grown up in the spotlight his entire life 7 00:00:25,980 --> 00:00:28,750 S3: of keeping his views to himself. 8 00:00:28,770 --> 00:00:31,650 S2: The Murdoch family are the owners of the huge global 9 00:00:31,650 --> 00:00:35,220 S2: media empire News Corp, built by Lachlan's father Rupert, who 10 00:00:35,220 --> 00:00:38,730 S2: is now 92 years old and recently announced that he 11 00:00:38,729 --> 00:00:42,659 S2: was stepping down. And 52 year old Lachlan, his eldest son, 12 00:00:42,659 --> 00:00:45,390 S2: will be stepping up as chairman of News Corp. 13 00:00:45,390 --> 00:00:49,770 S4: New line of succession at Fox News Rupert Murdoch announcing 14 00:00:49,770 --> 00:00:52,650 S4: he will be stepping down as chairman of Fox and 15 00:00:52,650 --> 00:00:53,610 S4: News Corporation. 16 00:00:53,610 --> 00:00:57,450 S5: Now Lachlan is in the driver's seat and he has 17 00:00:57,450 --> 00:00:58,230 S5: come out on top. 18 00:00:58,230 --> 00:01:01,200 S4: The 92 year old will hand over the reins to 19 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,120 S4: his son Lachlan Murdoch. 20 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,730 S2: So what is Lachlan Murdoch really like? Is he is 21 00:01:05,730 --> 00:01:09,330 S2: right wing as his father. And we'll also talk about 22 00:01:09,330 --> 00:01:13,589 S2: the succession style plot twist that could happen once Rupert 23 00:01:13,590 --> 00:01:17,340 S2: passes away. That is our briefing. First, here are today's 24 00:01:17,340 --> 00:01:18,360 S2: big headlines. 25 00:01:20,900 --> 00:01:24,740 S6: Hey, Tom. Hello, everyone. While Federal Parliament has passed the 26 00:01:24,740 --> 00:01:28,940 S6: government's emergency laws to strengthen visa conditions for a group 27 00:01:28,940 --> 00:01:33,740 S6: of people deemed high risk after their release from immigration detention. 28 00:01:33,890 --> 00:01:35,660 S7: We are in a rush. I would like to get 29 00:01:35,660 --> 00:01:36,470 S7: this through the Parliament. 30 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,950 S6: Yes, they were in a rush. Home Affairs Claire O'Neill 31 00:01:39,950 --> 00:01:44,479 S6: in Parliament yesterday, former immigration detainees who breached these new 32 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,560 S6: laws restricting their movements will face a mandatory one year 33 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,610 S6: jail sentence. So this comes after more than 80 detainees 34 00:01:52,610 --> 00:01:56,630 S6: were released after a recent High Court ruling that indefinite 35 00:01:56,630 --> 00:02:02,360 S6: immigration detention is illegal for anyone with no real prospect 36 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:07,400 S6: of being deported. What a tense week for the government, Tom. 37 00:02:07,430 --> 00:02:09,889 S2: Yeah, this all blew up very quickly for the government. 38 00:02:09,889 --> 00:02:13,250 S2: This High Court decision seemingly caught them on the hop 39 00:02:13,250 --> 00:02:17,030 S2: they weren't prepared for, I guess, what to do with 40 00:02:17,030 --> 00:02:21,440 S2: these people who'd been released, particularly the more potentially dangerous 41 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,639 S2: members of that cohort and the opposition have really seized 42 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,510 S2: on it as a community safety issue. So they've had 43 00:02:29,510 --> 00:02:33,919 S2: to push through this legislation very quickly. It's no exaggeration 44 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,200 S2: to say they rushed it through. Claire O'Neill just admitted 45 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,350 S2: it herself. So part of it will be that they'll 46 00:02:39,350 --> 00:02:42,679 S2: have a curfew between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m., where 47 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,040 S2: an electronic monitoring device, they'll have to report to federal 48 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,840 S2: authorities quite frequently, notify the department if they'd go into state, stateless, 49 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,960 S2: the memberships of organisations, and they can't work with children. 50 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,660 S2: And if they don't comply, they could be put behind 51 00:02:56,660 --> 00:02:59,359 S2: bars for up to five years. Yeah. 52 00:02:59,370 --> 00:03:02,000 S6: I don't think this is the last we've heard of this. 53 00:03:02,270 --> 00:03:05,329 S6: There's now talk that some of the people who were 54 00:03:05,330 --> 00:03:11,690 S6: detained now unlawfully, it's been found they could apply for compensation. 55 00:03:11,690 --> 00:03:14,870 S6: So yeah, we'll see where all this goes from here. 56 00:03:14,870 --> 00:03:16,669 S6: I fear the mess is not over yet. 57 00:03:17,690 --> 00:03:20,240 S2: And it's a shocking story out of Melbourne, where a 58 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,260 S2: 12 year old girl has been charged with murder over 59 00:03:24,260 --> 00:03:27,110 S2: a stabbing of a 37 year old woman who was 60 00:03:27,110 --> 00:03:30,410 S2: found dead in her apartment yesterday. So, according to News Corp, 61 00:03:30,410 --> 00:03:32,780 S2: the girl has an intellectual disability and has been in 62 00:03:32,780 --> 00:03:36,410 S2: state care for years with concerns for her welfare in 63 00:03:36,410 --> 00:03:38,510 S2: the weeks leading up to the death. 64 00:03:39,470 --> 00:03:42,770 S6: Some sad news now a volunteer firefighter has died after 65 00:03:42,770 --> 00:03:45,410 S6: being hit by a falling tree in north west New 66 00:03:45,410 --> 00:03:49,100 S6: South Wales. The Rural Fire Service has released a statement 67 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:51,559 S6: saying the man had been fighting a blaze with fellow 68 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,070 S6: crew members when he was struck near Walgett. The emergency 69 00:03:55,070 --> 00:03:59,450 S6: services minister has expressed his condolences, saying it's a tragic 70 00:03:59,450 --> 00:04:03,380 S6: reminder of the dangers our volunteer heroes put themselves in 71 00:04:03,380 --> 00:04:05,390 S6: to protect our communities. 72 00:04:06,530 --> 00:04:09,440 S2: And there's been a big legal fight between Macca's and 73 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,589 S2: Hungry Jack's. So McDonald's took Hungry Jack's to the federal 74 00:04:12,590 --> 00:04:18,110 S2: court over an alleged trademark infringement. McDonald's argued Hungry Jack's 75 00:04:18,110 --> 00:04:21,680 S2: was in danger of deceiving its customers when it cheekily 76 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,790 S2: launched the big Jack burger in 2020, which looked very 77 00:04:25,790 --> 00:04:29,330 S2: similar to the Big Mac, big Jack versus Big Mac. 78 00:04:29,330 --> 00:04:33,710 S2: The court ruled the big Jack was not deceptively similar 79 00:04:33,710 --> 00:04:37,219 S2: to Big Mac. I guess basically that people could tell 80 00:04:37,220 --> 00:04:42,110 S2: the difference. And so, yeah, the big Jack wins and remains. 81 00:04:42,260 --> 00:04:44,840 S6: Yeah, I think, you know, you'd know where you're going 82 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,240 S6: for a start, whether it's big Jack or Big Mac, 83 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,350 S6: but it is mega cheeky because I've looked at this, 84 00:04:51,350 --> 00:04:55,700 S6: I've analysed this, put my investigative journalism hat on. I 85 00:04:55,700 --> 00:04:58,010 S6: was looking at pictures of both the Big Mac and 86 00:04:58,010 --> 00:05:01,250 S6: Big Jack's side by side, and they look in terms 87 00:05:01,250 --> 00:05:05,240 S6: of ingredients. They look very, very much the same except 88 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,820 S6: for the sauce placement. The sauce on the big jack 89 00:05:07,820 --> 00:05:11,570 S6: is on top of the patty on the Big Mac. 90 00:05:11,570 --> 00:05:14,330 S6: It's on top of the bun. The other really hilarious 91 00:05:14,330 --> 00:05:18,680 S6: component to this is Hungry. Jack's put out an ad 92 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:23,150 S6: during court proceedings saying, we're being sued by an American 93 00:05:23,150 --> 00:05:27,170 S6: burger chain. But the thing is, our big jack patties 94 00:05:27,170 --> 00:05:33,020 S6: are 25% bigger. So then as part of this court case, 95 00:05:33,020 --> 00:05:35,930 S6: they had a whole bunch of people travel to 50 96 00:05:35,930 --> 00:05:40,430 S6: different outlets and weigh the patties to make sure. And 97 00:05:40,430 --> 00:05:46,220 S6: they actually found out that Hungry Jack's patties were only 15% bigger. 98 00:05:47,900 --> 00:05:51,890 S2: So Patty wow really got into the detail on these burgers, 99 00:05:51,890 --> 00:05:56,090 S2: didn't they? When you look at them, they, you know, 100 00:05:56,089 --> 00:05:59,719 S2: they have that triple bun thing going on the double patty. 101 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,190 S2: They are very, very similar. And actually it's sort of 102 00:06:04,190 --> 00:06:07,340 S2: backfired for McDonald's, I reckon, because I actually hadn't heard 103 00:06:07,339 --> 00:06:09,350 S2: of the big Jack, but I'm keen to give it 104 00:06:09,350 --> 00:06:10,130 S2: a try now. 105 00:06:10,220 --> 00:06:14,150 S6: Oh, there you go. We've also got another interesting consumer 106 00:06:14,150 --> 00:06:19,279 S6: story about hard solo, the alcoholic version of solo. There 107 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,690 S6: were a lot. A concerns that it used really similar packaging, 108 00:06:22,690 --> 00:06:26,260 S6: and that it wouldn't have been much of a transition 109 00:06:26,260 --> 00:06:31,839 S6: for kids to confuse the two, or maybe transition over 110 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:37,180 S6: from drinking regular solo to drinking the alcoholic version. Well, 111 00:06:37,300 --> 00:06:42,430 S6: Carlton United Breweries now has to rebrand. The Australian Beverages 112 00:06:42,430 --> 00:06:48,729 S6: Advertising Code regulator found that that would have a strong 113 00:06:48,730 --> 00:06:52,960 S6: appeal to minors. So they've got to change the name, 114 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,160 S6: the packaging. The word solo has to be removed, but 115 00:06:57,370 --> 00:06:59,800 S6: the drink will stay the same and that drink has 116 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,580 S6: sold out. So it's very popular so far. Right. 117 00:07:03,580 --> 00:07:05,770 S2: Okay. So the new product is going to be called 118 00:07:05,770 --> 00:07:09,490 S2: Hard Rated, which is a bit of a weird name. 119 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,250 S2: They're going to have to change the packaging as you said. 120 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,290 S2: I don't know about this. There's a lot of other 121 00:07:14,290 --> 00:07:17,920 S2: alcoholic drinks that also appeal to children, and I imagine 122 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,500 S2: it sort of ruins it. The connection with the old 123 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:23,290 S2: solo was part of what made this kind of interesting. 124 00:07:23,290 --> 00:07:27,220 S2: So yeah. Will it continue to sell, you know, with 125 00:07:27,460 --> 00:07:30,430 S2: this new name that doesn't really make sense. And the 126 00:07:30,430 --> 00:07:33,220 S2: packaging that doesn't really connect with the old solo? I 127 00:07:33,230 --> 00:07:37,570 S2: don't know, but I guess it's an interesting precedent because, yeah, 128 00:07:37,570 --> 00:07:39,820 S2: if there were lots of other soft drinks that were 129 00:07:39,820 --> 00:07:42,190 S2: really popular, and then they just made a slight tweak 130 00:07:42,190 --> 00:07:44,620 S2: to turn it into an alcoholic drink, that would be 131 00:07:44,620 --> 00:07:48,280 S2: a problem. But yeah, in this particular case with solo, 132 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,670 S2: it's just such an old school brand. I don't even 133 00:07:51,670 --> 00:07:54,430 S2: know how popular it is with kids. So yeah. 134 00:07:54,580 --> 00:07:56,920 S6: And I can't really imagine, you know, the old school 135 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,830 S6: solo commercials with a dude in the canoe going over 136 00:07:59,830 --> 00:08:00,670 S6: the waterfall. 137 00:08:00,790 --> 00:08:01,570 S8: Iconic. 138 00:08:01,750 --> 00:08:04,000 S6: Imagine if he'd been on the cans before he tried 139 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,830 S6: to do that. Going whitewater rafting drunk? Not good. Yes. 140 00:08:08,830 --> 00:08:12,100 S2: Fair point. Although, you know, some of that stuff I 141 00:08:12,100 --> 00:08:14,860 S2: wouldn't have done sober. It looks absolutely crazy. That guy 142 00:08:14,860 --> 00:08:18,370 S2: in the canoe. Catch you later, Katrina. It's time to 143 00:08:18,370 --> 00:08:31,370 S2: go deep on Lachlan Murdoch. Okay, let's talk real life 144 00:08:31,370 --> 00:08:34,850 S2: succession and get to know Lachlan Murdoch. Now that he's 145 00:08:34,850 --> 00:08:37,940 S2: officially becoming the chairman of News Corp, along with the 146 00:08:37,940 --> 00:08:41,390 S2: other big Murdoch company, which he runs, Fox Corp. Paddy 147 00:08:41,390 --> 00:08:45,020 S2: Manning is an investigative reporter who's been researching the Murdochs 148 00:08:45,020 --> 00:08:48,680 S2: for over two years. He's got a podcast on Rupert 149 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,260 S2: called The Last Mogul and a book on Lachlan called 150 00:08:51,260 --> 00:08:54,370 S2: The Successor. Paddy, thank you so much for joining us. 151 00:08:54,380 --> 00:08:55,280 S3: Thanks for having me, Tom. 152 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,730 S2: So given how much power Lachlan Murdoch has slowly accrued 153 00:08:58,730 --> 00:09:02,240 S2: over the years and now consolidated, do you think we 154 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,550 S2: here in Australia really know that much about him as 155 00:09:04,550 --> 00:09:05,240 S2: a person? 156 00:09:05,420 --> 00:09:09,380 S3: He is incredibly private and I think that he has 157 00:09:09,380 --> 00:09:12,170 S3: done a remarkable job, given he's grown up in the 158 00:09:12,170 --> 00:09:16,760 S3: spotlight his entire life of keeping his views to himself. 159 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,220 S3: On the other hand, he spent more time here than 160 00:09:19,220 --> 00:09:23,270 S3: any of the other Murdoch children. He loves Australia. I 161 00:09:23,270 --> 00:09:27,650 S3: think he is, you know, better understood here. Perhaps, than 162 00:09:27,650 --> 00:09:30,559 S3: he is in America, where they really scratch their heads. 163 00:09:30,830 --> 00:09:33,559 S2: His story seems to be one of many things, but 164 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,220 S2: contrasts is one of them, and there's really interesting contrast 165 00:09:37,220 --> 00:09:40,340 S2: to explore. One of them is the contrast between him 166 00:09:40,340 --> 00:09:44,719 S2: and his father on a personal and political level. How 167 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,490 S2: different or how similar are they? 168 00:09:46,670 --> 00:09:51,200 S3: Similarities. They love newspapers. Lachlan is the only one of 169 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,080 S3: the kids that's taken much interest in that newspaper and 170 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:55,910 S3: the historical roots of the business. 171 00:09:55,910 --> 00:09:57,920 S2: So you start in your book by talking about the 172 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,880 S2: time he spent in some of the Queensland newspapers. Yep. Courier-Mail, etcetera. 173 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,579 S3: Yep. That's right. He gets thrown into the deep end 174 00:10:04,580 --> 00:10:07,790 S3: in Australia. He comes here because he reads a biography 175 00:10:07,790 --> 00:10:11,359 S3: of his grandfather, Sir Keith, and says, I want to 176 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,390 S3: understand the roots of the family and the family business. 177 00:10:14,690 --> 00:10:17,330 S3: And he gets thrown into the Super League wars in 178 00:10:17,330 --> 00:10:20,900 S3: the 90s and is very quickly up the kind of 179 00:10:20,900 --> 00:10:26,270 S3: elevator running Holt Street at running the Australian operations of 180 00:10:26,270 --> 00:10:30,140 S3: News Corp at Holt Street in Surry Hills in Sydney. Okay, so. 181 00:10:30,140 --> 00:10:33,320 S2: He's into the newspapers like his father. He genuinely is interested. 182 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,309 S3: Yes. The difference is, of course, that he's inherited at all. 183 00:10:37,309 --> 00:10:42,410 S3: He hasn't built an empire. He's inherited. And and he's 184 00:10:42,410 --> 00:10:44,900 S3: had an incredibly I mean, like Rupert, he had an 185 00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:49,550 S3: incredibly privileged upbringing. You know, Keith Murdoch was wealthy and 186 00:10:49,550 --> 00:10:52,980 S3: Rupert went to the best schools and went to Oxford University. Sure. 187 00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:53,720 S3: But Keith owned. 188 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,140 S2: Two newspapers, and Rupert took it from there. So an 189 00:10:57,140 --> 00:10:59,270 S2: incredible journey in Rupert's lifetime. 190 00:10:59,420 --> 00:11:02,480 S3: He definitely exceeded his father. I mean, there is an 191 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,810 S3: argument that his father, as managing director of the Herald 192 00:11:05,809 --> 00:11:09,890 S3: and Weekly Times, this is Sir Keith, built Australia's first 193 00:11:09,890 --> 00:11:13,910 S3: national media chain. But he didn't own those that empire. 194 00:11:13,910 --> 00:11:17,750 S3: He just ran it. Rupert built the world's first global 195 00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:22,610 S3: media empire, just having inherited the one newspaper in Adelaide effectively. 196 00:11:22,610 --> 00:11:27,530 S3: And yeah, he outmatched his father, probably in the 80s 197 00:11:27,530 --> 00:11:31,040 S3: and then has continued for another three decades. 198 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:35,329 S2: So that's a key difference that Lachlan inherited it very different. 199 00:11:35,420 --> 00:11:39,199 S3: Absolutely. And the other thing is that Lachlan I don't 200 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,189 S3: think aspires. He doesn't consider himself a journalist. Keith was 201 00:11:43,190 --> 00:11:45,980 S3: a journalist, always editor of the Melbourne Herald and started 202 00:11:45,980 --> 00:11:50,480 S3: as a reporter. Rupert was thrown in. He does consider 203 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,850 S3: himself a journalist. He's actually always been a proprietor, has 204 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,180 S3: been the publisher, but he is a sleeves rolled up 205 00:11:56,179 --> 00:12:00,110 S3: media proprietor on the news floor, writing editorials. 206 00:12:00,110 --> 00:12:00,949 S2: Editorial input. 207 00:12:01,190 --> 00:12:04,219 S3: Totally. All his life. He loves newspapers and that is 208 00:12:04,220 --> 00:12:08,250 S3: part of his being. But that is where Lachlan is. 209 00:12:08,260 --> 00:12:11,390 S3: He's not quite. He's more of a businessman than a journalist, 210 00:12:11,390 --> 00:12:14,090 S3: and I don't think he aspires to be the kind 211 00:12:14,090 --> 00:12:18,380 S3: of editor in chief, the way highly interventionist, the way 212 00:12:18,380 --> 00:12:21,800 S3: Rupert has been all the way through his 70 year career. 213 00:12:21,980 --> 00:12:25,520 S3: Nor do I think Lachlan wants to be the political 214 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,760 S3: kingmaker that Rupert has been, really. You know, I don't 215 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,130 S3: think he's got that, you know, and you could see 216 00:12:31,130 --> 00:12:33,860 S3: it as benign in some ways. It's he doesn't have 217 00:12:33,860 --> 00:12:36,980 S3: that ambition to sort of run the world. You know, 218 00:12:37,010 --> 00:12:41,060 S3: the way Rupert has had strong opinions on every elected 219 00:12:41,059 --> 00:12:44,840 S3: leader in Australia, the United Kingdom, in the US for 220 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:45,650 S3: all those decades. 221 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,680 S2: And generally right wing increasingly so as you sort of 222 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,250 S2: chart his journey through the 70s and 80s. But is 223 00:12:52,250 --> 00:12:55,100 S2: Lachlan much more of a centrist? Because you you have 224 00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:57,020 S2: this great quote from him where he says, I'm not 225 00:12:57,020 --> 00:13:00,890 S2: I'm not someone that fits into the left or right binary. 226 00:13:00,890 --> 00:13:04,970 S2: I'm someone that is a bit more socially progressive, but 227 00:13:05,179 --> 00:13:08,630 S2: economically I'm quite conservative. That's how he tries to position himself. 228 00:13:08,630 --> 00:13:11,630 S2: So is that true? Is that a fair representation given 229 00:13:11,630 --> 00:13:13,280 S2: the choices he's made over the years? 230 00:13:13,580 --> 00:13:16,490 S3: Well, yeah. It's true that he has always described his 231 00:13:16,490 --> 00:13:21,680 S3: politics that way socially smaller, liberal and economically conservative. And 232 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,780 S3: in the 90s when he came to Australia, he was 233 00:13:23,780 --> 00:13:27,610 S3: anti Hanson pro Republic. You know he's. He had the 234 00:13:27,610 --> 00:13:30,460 S3: short cropped hair with the tattoo. Is into rock climbing. 235 00:13:30,460 --> 00:13:35,050 S3: He was kind of cool, hip, young, you know, cosmopolitan. Dude. 236 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:40,630 S3: Fast forward to now. I don't know how you reconcile 237 00:13:40,750 --> 00:13:45,429 S3: being socially progressive with also, for example, donating $1 million 238 00:13:45,429 --> 00:13:48,819 S3: to the Senate Leadership Fund of Mitch McConnell, who is 239 00:13:48,820 --> 00:13:52,359 S3: the architect of the conservative super majority on the US 240 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,090 S3: Supreme Court that just did away with Roe v Wade. 241 00:13:55,780 --> 00:13:59,589 S3: If you're donating to Mitch McConnell's leadership fund, how can 242 00:13:59,590 --> 00:14:03,429 S3: you describe yourself as socially progressive? It doesn't wash in 243 00:14:03,429 --> 00:14:04,090 S3: my mind. 244 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,030 S2: Well, the direction of Fox News would also raise that 245 00:14:07,030 --> 00:14:09,640 S2: same question. But you deal with that in the book. 246 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,220 S2: And there's a quote from him saying, that's a business 247 00:14:12,220 --> 00:14:17,380 S2: decision because it's the only big conservative news channel. So 248 00:14:17,380 --> 00:14:20,410 S2: is it just about business rather than his values? 249 00:14:20,650 --> 00:14:24,400 S3: I think it is primarily about business for Lachlan. I 250 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,340 S3: think he looks at Fox News and it's a successful business. 251 00:14:27,340 --> 00:14:30,190 S3: It's an incredible business model. I mean, it has just 252 00:14:30,190 --> 00:14:34,120 S3: coughed up almost $1 billion in defamation payments in the 253 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,720 S3: Dominion case, and it's still trucking along. The share price 254 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,220 S3: has basically remained steady. So it's an incredible business. In 255 00:14:42,220 --> 00:14:45,190 S3: his most recent book, Michael Wolff, Not to plug another author, 256 00:14:45,190 --> 00:14:47,979 S3: but he describes it as perhaps the most profitable media 257 00:14:47,980 --> 00:14:52,300 S3: business ever made. Fox News it is unbelievably profitable, $2 258 00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:56,680 S3: billion a year that it makes. But Lachlan also has 259 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,700 S3: an idea that, you know, someone has to represent. You know, 260 00:15:00,700 --> 00:15:03,820 S3: the quality of debate is lifted by a diversity of opinion. 261 00:15:03,820 --> 00:15:07,570 S3: Someone has to represent that middle America, if you like, 262 00:15:07,570 --> 00:15:10,810 S3: which is underrepresented by the, you know, small liberal media. 263 00:15:10,810 --> 00:15:13,230 S3: The way the Murdochs see it, you know, dominated by 264 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,750 S3: coastal elites, that's literally how they talk. And someone had 265 00:15:16,750 --> 00:15:19,570 S3: to represent middle America. Now, he's not saying that he 266 00:15:19,570 --> 00:15:22,030 S3: agrees with everything that goes to air on Fox News, 267 00:15:22,030 --> 00:15:25,030 S3: but he, I think, believes there's a public interest in 268 00:15:25,030 --> 00:15:28,480 S3: representing a broader variety of views. 269 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,750 S2: The other interesting contrast in the life of Lachlan Murdoch 270 00:15:31,750 --> 00:15:36,310 S2: is that of him and his siblings, particularly his brother James. 271 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,000 S2: They're less than two years apart, so very close relationship 272 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,630 S2: over the years, but they do seem like very different characters. 273 00:15:43,630 --> 00:15:46,570 S2: What's going on with the siblings now that Lachlan has 274 00:15:46,570 --> 00:15:50,710 S2: ascended to the top job? And how much store can 275 00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:53,830 S2: we put in these reports that there's so much tension 276 00:15:53,830 --> 00:15:57,610 S2: that once Rupert actually passes away, the other siblings could 277 00:15:57,610 --> 00:15:59,020 S2: roll him straight away? 278 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,840 S3: Well, I think it's a very real scenario, and one 279 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,440 S3: that probably does concern Lachlan. What I was told the 280 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,410 S3: way I was guided is that when I was researching 281 00:16:08,410 --> 00:16:13,240 S3: the biography, talking to other members of the sources close 282 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,540 S3: to other members of the family, was that the siblings 283 00:16:16,540 --> 00:16:21,250 S3: were determined once Rupert passed, to reassert control of the 284 00:16:21,250 --> 00:16:24,220 S3: Murdoch family businesses and do it in a way that 285 00:16:24,220 --> 00:16:29,170 S3: protects and enhances democracies around the world rather than undermines them. Right. 286 00:16:29,170 --> 00:16:32,560 S2: So they're in a family trust which controls a large 287 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,020 S2: chunk of the voting shares. Correct? 288 00:16:35,020 --> 00:16:38,050 S3: Right. Yep. And they say they control about 40%. It's 289 00:16:38,050 --> 00:16:40,510 S3: enough for the Murdoch family to control the empire. 290 00:16:40,510 --> 00:16:42,369 S2: Because if you were to get the other 60% to 291 00:16:42,370 --> 00:16:44,859 S2: vote against them, everyone in that 60% would have to agree, 292 00:16:44,860 --> 00:16:46,810 S2: which is unlikely. Very unlikely. So this is where it 293 00:16:46,810 --> 00:16:49,810 S2: comes back to the TV show succession as possible, where 294 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,930 S2: they're trying to corral the other shareholders to vote with 295 00:16:52,930 --> 00:16:54,070 S2: them on certain deals. 296 00:16:54,370 --> 00:16:59,050 S3: Lachlan. Well, perhaps course correct. It is possible they have 297 00:16:59,050 --> 00:17:00,730 S3: just done it this year in the wake of the 298 00:17:00,730 --> 00:17:04,150 S3: Dominion settlement. Within a week, Lachlan took the decision to 299 00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:08,110 S3: fire their biggest star, Tucker Carlson, the most controversial person 300 00:17:08,109 --> 00:17:09,550 S3: on air in cable television. 301 00:17:09,700 --> 00:17:10,390 S2: Not Rupert's. 302 00:17:10,390 --> 00:17:14,169 S3: Lachlan call. Well, you know, they have been doing this 303 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:19,030 S3: delicate kind of dance with Trump all year. Well, in fact, 304 00:17:19,030 --> 00:17:22,570 S3: since 2020, how do they, especially now that they've had 305 00:17:22,570 --> 00:17:27,130 S3: to pay out to the Dominion $787 million and they've 306 00:17:27,130 --> 00:17:28,900 S3: got more litigation coming. 307 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,629 S2: For our listeners. That's for essentially pushing the stolen election 308 00:17:31,630 --> 00:17:34,120 S2: narrative on Fox News despite knowing it was bullshit. 309 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,230 S3: Exactly, exactly. All those evidence, all that emails, texts, the 310 00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:41,800 S3: sworn testimony of Rupert, Lachlan and others all show that 311 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,879 S3: none of them believed, except maybe Maria Bartiromo. None of 312 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,690 S3: them believed that the election had been stolen from Trump, 313 00:17:49,690 --> 00:17:52,570 S3: but they still put it to air multiple times. 314 00:17:52,570 --> 00:17:55,180 S2: Okay, so a lot of Australians are very critical of 315 00:17:55,180 --> 00:17:57,730 S2: the Murdochs and their impact on politics, particularly here in 316 00:17:57,730 --> 00:18:01,090 S2: Australia and of course, in America. Kevin Rudd is one 317 00:18:01,090 --> 00:18:03,850 S2: of the loudest voices, less so now that he's in 318 00:18:03,850 --> 00:18:08,590 S2: the ambassador role in America, Malcolm Turnbull, many others. Do 319 00:18:08,590 --> 00:18:12,160 S2: you think the critics of the Murdochs and their influence 320 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,209 S2: could actually see the company move in a more favourable 321 00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:19,690 S2: direction under Lachlan than it has under Rupert Murdoch? 322 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,180 S3: Look, I think it is possible because there will be 323 00:18:22,180 --> 00:18:25,840 S3: the pressure from his siblings to do that. The other 324 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,800 S3: alternative is that. The Murdoch family decide once Rupert has 325 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,179 S3: passed to just sell. Literally break it up so the. 326 00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:36,100 S2: Three other siblings could force Lachlan to do that. 327 00:18:36,100 --> 00:18:38,530 S3: They could. They could put the whole thing on the market. 328 00:18:38,590 --> 00:18:41,650 S3: Interestingly enough, in the Michael Wolff book that has just 329 00:18:41,650 --> 00:18:45,310 S3: come out, there's a lot of verbatim quoting from Roger Ailes. 330 00:18:45,310 --> 00:18:49,750 S3: Wolf and Ailes died in 2017. Former boss of the who, 331 00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:53,109 S3: the founder co founder with Rupert of Fox News and 332 00:18:53,109 --> 00:18:56,800 S3: Roger Ailes tells Wolf that the Murdoch in his view, 333 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,490 S3: the Murdoch children all regard Fox News as a steaming 334 00:19:00,490 --> 00:19:04,780 S3: pile of shit on the table. They're all embarrassed by it. Now, 335 00:19:04,780 --> 00:19:09,010 S3: I have dealt extensively with the people around Lachlan. He 336 00:19:09,010 --> 00:19:11,950 S3: is running Fox News, but there's a tension there because 337 00:19:11,950 --> 00:19:15,460 S3: he's based here in Australia more often than not. 338 00:19:15,460 --> 00:19:18,850 S2: Okay, so he's grown up in a different generation. He's 339 00:19:18,850 --> 00:19:21,760 S2: more interested in living in Sydney, which is, you know, 340 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,420 S2: a better lifestyle than living in America. You're saying that 341 00:19:25,420 --> 00:19:28,660 S2: his politics aren't as hardcore as his father. You're saying 342 00:19:28,660 --> 00:19:31,750 S2: that his views, whatever they are, are going to be 343 00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:35,590 S2: tempered by his siblings, who are much more progressive. Link 344 00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:38,859 S2: all of that together. Very different picture emerges of the 345 00:19:38,859 --> 00:19:40,960 S2: leadership of this big corporation. 346 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,560 S3: Yeah. I mean, look, Lachlan has a reputation for being 347 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,590 S3: right of Rupert. A lot of people will say that, 348 00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:53,560 S3: but it's just not the way I've been briefed. I mean, look, 349 00:19:53,890 --> 00:19:56,200 S3: he just put Tony Abbott on the board. Tony Abbott 350 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,750 S3: is an arch conservative. He's just been appointed to the 351 00:19:58,750 --> 00:20:04,240 S3: board of Fox Corporation. He's a, you know, trenchant climate denial. 352 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,960 S3: He's just opposed the voice referendum. I mean, he is 353 00:20:07,990 --> 00:20:11,320 S3: staunch Catholic. He is as far right as you get 354 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,290 S3: in the Liberal Party in Australia. You know, I'm not 355 00:20:14,290 --> 00:20:18,130 S3: naive about Lachlan's politics, but I think the combination of 356 00:20:18,130 --> 00:20:22,389 S3: the dynamic within the family and this kind of unspoken 357 00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:27,310 S3: ambivalence that, you know, seems to kind of be deep 358 00:20:27,310 --> 00:20:31,570 S3: seated does lead me to question whether Lachlan really is 359 00:20:31,570 --> 00:20:34,270 S3: the kind of right wing ideologue that most people assume 360 00:20:34,270 --> 00:20:35,080 S3: that he is. 361 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,050 S2: Paddy Manning and his work on Lachlan Murdoch is in 362 00:20:38,050 --> 00:20:40,870 S2: his book called successor, and you can get across his 363 00:20:40,869 --> 00:20:44,350 S2: new podcast series on Rupert Murdoch. It's called Rupert The 364 00:20:44,350 --> 00:20:52,359 S2: Last Mogul. Antoinette is going to bring you the weekend briefing, 365 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,609 S2: dropping into your feed tomorrow. Antoinette, who are you speaking 366 00:20:54,609 --> 00:20:55,990 S2: to this week? 367 00:20:55,990 --> 00:21:01,030 S1: I have a super interesting chat with author feminist Clementine 368 00:21:01,030 --> 00:21:06,609 S1: Ford about her latest book, I Don't The Case Against Marriage. Super, 369 00:21:06,609 --> 00:21:11,440 S1: super interesting, particularly given I've been married for 13 years 370 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,260 S1: and Clem makes the case that women shouldn't take their 371 00:21:14,260 --> 00:21:19,990 S1: husbands surnames. I've taken mine, so it's both personal, political, entertaining. 372 00:21:19,990 --> 00:21:23,470 S1: We don't agree on everything, but I think it makes 373 00:21:23,470 --> 00:21:26,140 S1: for a fascinating chat and certainly left me with lots 374 00:21:26,140 --> 00:21:27,250 S1: of things to think about. 375 00:21:27,250 --> 00:21:30,520 S2: Yeah, Clementine Ford on the briefing. That will be a 376 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,880 S2: very interesting chat. Thank you, Antoinette, and thank you very 377 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,240 S2: much to our hard working team here at the briefing. 378 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:44,450 S2: I'll catch you Monday. Listener.