1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:09,100 S1: A listener production. Hello, it's Antoinette Latif here, filling in 2 00:00:09,100 --> 00:00:11,920 S1: for Jamila Rizvi this week as she brings you her 3 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,329 S1: chat with Jelena Jokic. Jelena has had a pretty extraordinary 4 00:00:16,329 --> 00:00:19,570 S1: tennis career and why she may have left the tennis court. 5 00:00:19,570 --> 00:00:22,989 S1: She certainly hasn't left public life. So in this really 6 00:00:22,989 --> 00:00:27,100 S1: fascinating chat with Jamila, Jelena explains how she felt pretty 7 00:00:27,100 --> 00:00:30,930 S1: lost after retiring and at the time she was only 29. 8 00:00:30,940 --> 00:00:35,019 S1: She talks about experiencing body shaming and also the impact 9 00:00:35,020 --> 00:00:39,040 S1: her memoir unbreakable had on her because in it she 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,440 S1: dug up and she shared a lot of the trauma 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,640 S1: she's experienced in life. Also, a little later, Helen Smith 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,640 S1: will bring you the weekend list, where we recommend what 13 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,540 S1: to watch, see, do, eat, or listen to. But first, 14 00:00:52,540 --> 00:00:56,650 S1: here is Miller's interview with Jelena Dokic and a content warning. 15 00:00:56,650 --> 00:01:01,330 S1: This chat does include mentions of DV suicide and an 16 00:01:01,330 --> 00:01:02,320 S1: eating disorder. 17 00:01:06,780 --> 00:01:08,950 S2: Elaina, welcome to the weekend briefing. 18 00:01:08,970 --> 00:01:10,740 S3: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. 19 00:01:10,740 --> 00:01:14,580 S2: And congratulations on your beautiful new book, Fearless Finding the 20 00:01:14,580 --> 00:01:18,330 S2: Power to Thrive. Like two books in, you know, only 21 00:01:18,330 --> 00:01:21,420 S2: a handful of years. That's quite the achievement. What made 22 00:01:21,420 --> 00:01:23,580 S2: you want to put yourself through that again? 23 00:01:24,330 --> 00:01:27,119 S3: Thank you. Yeah. If you told me I would write 24 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,340 S3: a first one, I would tell you. No way. And 25 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:30,869 S3: then if you told me I would write another one, 26 00:01:30,870 --> 00:01:34,560 S3: I would also say, no, no way. But only because I. Yeah, 27 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,990 S3: I just didn't know where. I think life will take 28 00:01:36,990 --> 00:01:40,950 S3: me after tennis and when I retired. But yeah, when 29 00:01:40,950 --> 00:01:44,610 S3: my first book came out. Exactly. Now actually six years ago, 30 00:01:45,450 --> 00:01:47,640 S3: he changed my life. I say that the day that 31 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,160 S3: unbreakable came out was the best day of my life, 32 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,730 S3: and I literally mean that it has changed my life. 33 00:01:53,730 --> 00:01:56,460 S3: It has changed quite a few, I think, other people's 34 00:01:56,460 --> 00:01:59,490 S3: lives and helped as well. And this book now fearless, 35 00:01:59,490 --> 00:02:01,710 S3: it really is a follow up. My first one was 36 00:02:01,710 --> 00:02:04,230 S3: my it was my life story. It was what I 37 00:02:04,230 --> 00:02:08,400 S3: went through. It was a memoir and a biography, and 38 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,070 S3: this book goes a lot deeper into a lot of 39 00:02:11,070 --> 00:02:14,579 S3: the things that I went through, from abuse to mental 40 00:02:14,580 --> 00:02:18,600 S3: health to talking about an eating disorder, body shaming as well. 41 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,580 S3: But ultimately it is about recognizing trauma. How do we 42 00:02:23,580 --> 00:02:25,740 S3: go from there? How do we go from being a 43 00:02:25,740 --> 00:02:29,579 S3: victim to survivor, to then being able to actually heal 44 00:02:29,580 --> 00:02:32,459 S3: and help others and come out on the other side? 45 00:02:32,460 --> 00:02:34,710 S3: I do want this book to be ultimately a book 46 00:02:34,710 --> 00:02:38,609 S3: of hope and give other people strength and inspiration. But, 47 00:02:38,610 --> 00:02:41,640 S3: you know, you said, what makes you put yourself through that? 48 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,510 S3: It really, to be honest with you is not difficult. Yes. 49 00:02:45,510 --> 00:02:48,270 S3: At times is it hard to to write a book 50 00:02:48,430 --> 00:02:51,180 S3: and relive some of those moments? It is. It can 51 00:02:51,180 --> 00:02:55,560 S3: be mentally draining because it is a big process in 52 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,290 S3: editing it and actually getting it to that kind of 53 00:02:58,290 --> 00:03:01,560 S3: printing day and publication day. But I would do it 54 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,020 S3: all over again because it has helped me so much. 55 00:03:04,020 --> 00:03:06,990 S3: But more importantly, it's actually helped others, which is the 56 00:03:06,990 --> 00:03:08,040 S3: most important thing. 57 00:03:08,730 --> 00:03:12,810 S2: Can I take you back, Elena, to your retirement from tennis? 58 00:03:12,810 --> 00:03:15,840 S2: At that point, tennis had been your whole life, right? 59 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,060 S2: This had been what you were focused on from such 60 00:03:18,060 --> 00:03:21,420 S2: an incredibly young age. And you had that still do, 61 00:03:21,419 --> 00:03:24,330 S2: but had that amazing discipline to be able to work 62 00:03:24,330 --> 00:03:27,240 S2: at it for hours and hours and hours of every day. 63 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,850 S2: It came before everything else. What was it like to 64 00:03:29,850 --> 00:03:33,450 S2: know that that career that had been such a single focus? 65 00:03:33,570 --> 00:03:35,910 S2: Was it an end? And what what did you have 66 00:03:35,910 --> 00:03:39,330 S2: in your mind? Did you have plans or hopes or. 67 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,660 S3: No. Well, that's what I talk about. I was lost 68 00:03:42,660 --> 00:03:45,660 S3: after retiring. I was only actually 29 when I retired, 69 00:03:45,660 --> 00:03:49,140 S3: which is quite young for an athlete and especially tennis 70 00:03:49,140 --> 00:03:52,260 S3: player these days, and I retired because of injury, but 71 00:03:52,260 --> 00:03:55,410 S3: also I retired because of because of my mental health. 72 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:00,210 S3: I battled anxiety, depression, PTSD for more than a decade. 73 00:04:00,210 --> 00:04:04,110 S3: When I retired and it was tough. I didn't know 74 00:04:04,110 --> 00:04:07,140 S3: where I would go from there, but I also wasn't 75 00:04:07,140 --> 00:04:10,200 S3: in a position to play anymore, and I had to 76 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:15,720 S3: really reinvent myself and really find out what happiness was privately. 77 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,720 S3: But also, where do I go from there professionally and 78 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,050 S3: what do I do? But most importantly, I had so 79 00:04:22,050 --> 00:04:25,620 S3: much trauma and so much that I actually had to 80 00:04:25,620 --> 00:04:28,980 S3: deal with privately more than actually figuring out from there, 81 00:04:28,980 --> 00:04:33,000 S3: what do I do now in my life? Because I 82 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:37,830 S3: hadn't dealt with it, I was raised, I was taught, 83 00:04:37,830 --> 00:04:41,669 S3: I was kind of trained to be silent. And a 84 00:04:41,670 --> 00:04:43,830 S3: lot of the things that a lot of people and 85 00:04:43,830 --> 00:04:46,560 S3: you have read in unbreakable, being a refugee, being bullied, 86 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,039 S3: being abused by my father physically, in emotionally from the 87 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:54,299 S3: age of six for almost two decades, leaving home at 88 00:04:54,300 --> 00:04:58,679 S3: 19 at the same time, almost committing suicide in 2005 89 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,130 S3: and 2006. I had to deal with that, and I 90 00:05:02,130 --> 00:05:05,280 S3: hadn't dealt with that because most importantly, I actually didn't 91 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,010 S3: know all of these things that I was going through it. 92 00:05:08,490 --> 00:05:12,150 S3: I didn't know that I needed to get help, and 93 00:05:12,150 --> 00:05:15,360 S3: that's ultimately what I needed to do. And after I 94 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,780 S3: actually retired, I could feel that. I could feel that 95 00:05:18,779 --> 00:05:21,480 S3: I wasn't happy, I could feel that I wasn't living, 96 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,570 S3: I was existing, and I could really feel like I 97 00:05:24,570 --> 00:05:27,990 S3: had to sort out a lot of things privately, even 98 00:05:27,990 --> 00:05:31,260 S3: like first, before I could even think about, okay, what 99 00:05:31,260 --> 00:05:34,080 S3: is life going to be now other than tennis and 100 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:35,310 S3: find that identity? 101 00:05:36,540 --> 00:05:39,630 S2: You've had enormous success as a commentator as well as 102 00:05:39,630 --> 00:05:43,080 S2: a writer since your tennis career. Being a commentator is 103 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,410 S2: the very definition of having a voice, right? Literally being 104 00:05:46,410 --> 00:05:49,830 S2: paid to to say what you think about tennis. How 105 00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:53,310 S2: was that? Sort of, I suppose, the psychological transition from 106 00:05:53,310 --> 00:05:56,580 S2: from being someone who'd been told to be silent and 107 00:05:56,580 --> 00:06:00,270 S2: be quiet, to find your voice and then be so 108 00:06:00,270 --> 00:06:01,770 S2: willing to share it with people. 109 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:06,000 S3: Well, again, actually started with unbreak. I actually started wanting 110 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:11,400 S3: to commentate and be a part of tennis and do 111 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,050 S3: it for I don't know if I would even say 112 00:06:13,050 --> 00:06:16,200 S3: a living. It's a passion of mine. But it started 113 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,790 S3: with unbreakable. Everything did, and Jessica Halloran was the biggest, 114 00:06:20,790 --> 00:06:23,760 S3: to be honest with you. Reason why? I did everything. 115 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,990 S3: We had conversations years earlier and she really understood me, 116 00:06:27,990 --> 00:06:31,530 S3: and she understood the pain that I was in and 117 00:06:31,529 --> 00:06:36,060 S3: the trauma, and she was such a big support in 118 00:06:36,060 --> 00:06:40,230 S3: telling my story. And we ultimately went into it going, 119 00:06:40,230 --> 00:06:43,020 S3: this story needs to be told. And I, as I 120 00:06:43,020 --> 00:06:46,260 S3: say at the end of unbreakable, if it helps one person, 121 00:06:46,260 --> 00:06:48,989 S3: it's mission accomplished. That's what I wanted all along. It 122 00:06:48,990 --> 00:06:52,320 S3: actually never was even about me. I didn't realize how 123 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,779 S3: much she would help me, and that all of this 124 00:06:54,779 --> 00:06:57,040 S3: weight would be lifted off my shoulders the day the 125 00:06:57,089 --> 00:07:00,660 S3: war comes out. And I always thought, look, I went 126 00:07:00,660 --> 00:07:03,240 S3: through a lot of these things. I know what it's like. 127 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,900 S3: I know what I didn't have, I didn't have help. 128 00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:09,210 S3: We didn't have that at the time. We didn't talk 129 00:07:09,210 --> 00:07:12,600 S3: about a lot of these things that we do more now, 130 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,940 S3: even though we can still be better. There was so 131 00:07:14,940 --> 00:07:18,210 S3: much stigma about talking about a lot of these things. 132 00:07:18,210 --> 00:07:24,180 S3: The conversation around it wasn't normal. And we had this dream, 133 00:07:24,180 --> 00:07:26,970 S3: I would say, really a dream of telling my story 134 00:07:26,970 --> 00:07:30,180 S3: just to help someone out there, because I think deep 135 00:07:30,180 --> 00:07:33,450 S3: down she really knew we could. I didn't I kind 136 00:07:33,450 --> 00:07:36,210 S3: of always thought I didn't even know if anyone was 137 00:07:36,210 --> 00:07:38,190 S3: going to even buy my book or listen to it. 138 00:07:38,190 --> 00:07:42,300 S3: So yeah, I think Jess is the biggest reason why 139 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:44,580 S3: we are here, why I've told my story, why I 140 00:07:44,580 --> 00:07:47,970 S3: am the person I am today, why I've survived, healed, 141 00:07:47,970 --> 00:07:50,460 S3: and how I can actually go another step and actually 142 00:07:50,460 --> 00:07:55,860 S3: help others. And to actually be able to talk about tennis. 143 00:07:55,860 --> 00:07:57,810 S3: And like you say, it kind of came at the 144 00:07:57,810 --> 00:08:00,270 S3: same time that I told my story. And I don't 145 00:08:00,270 --> 00:08:02,640 S3: think that that's a coincidence. To be able to now 146 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,660 S3: talk tennis, to do interviews with players and yeah, to 147 00:08:06,660 --> 00:08:08,430 S3: do it at the biggest stage, to do it at 148 00:08:08,430 --> 00:08:12,090 S3: Grand Slams. And I'm just very fortunate and I'm very 149 00:08:12,090 --> 00:08:14,130 S3: grateful and lucky to have that opportunity. 150 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,690 S2: Part of the success of a professional athlete lies in 151 00:08:18,690 --> 00:08:22,350 S2: their mindset, right? Not just in their physical skills and ability, 152 00:08:22,350 --> 00:08:26,700 S2: and in tennis, especially the ability to block everything out 153 00:08:26,700 --> 00:08:29,400 S2: and to come back and play that next point and 154 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,920 S2: to not think about everything that's going on around you 155 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,080 S2: and all the consequences. But just to play that next shot, 156 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,290 S2: play that next ball. One of the things we know 157 00:08:37,290 --> 00:08:41,250 S2: is a hallmark of living with PTSD and trauma is 158 00:08:41,250 --> 00:08:45,929 S2: also blocking out experiences of your past. I wonder if 159 00:08:45,929 --> 00:08:48,479 S2: that was something that happened for you, and how you 160 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,770 S2: were able to tap back into things that had happened 161 00:08:52,770 --> 00:08:54,840 S2: to you as a child, and trauma that had happened 162 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,160 S2: to you as a child, to be able to tell 163 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:56,969 S2: that story? 164 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,700 S3: Yeah, I did look and like I said, I didn't 165 00:08:59,700 --> 00:09:02,250 S3: talk about it for a very long time. And that's 166 00:09:02,250 --> 00:09:07,020 S3: what often victims and survivors of any kind of abuse 167 00:09:07,020 --> 00:09:12,030 S3: or anything that they've gone through, that will often happen. 168 00:09:12,030 --> 00:09:15,480 S3: And I didn't talk about it because I was afraid. Obviously, 169 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,179 S3: I was afraid of my father. I was very scared 170 00:09:18,179 --> 00:09:20,520 S3: of him. The abuse that I went through when you're, 171 00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:23,670 S3: you know, when you kicked and punched to the point 172 00:09:23,670 --> 00:09:27,060 S3: of being unconscious and when you're going through that for 173 00:09:27,059 --> 00:09:31,260 S3: 15 years, you are you are. That fear is so 174 00:09:31,260 --> 00:09:34,440 S3: hard to explain of how afraid you are of that person, 175 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,680 S3: but it also turns into almost being afraid of anything 176 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:42,330 S3: out there. And that's how I felt. And also what 177 00:09:42,330 --> 00:09:47,100 S3: I said earlier, I was raised, I was taught to 178 00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:50,130 S3: be silent and to never, ever say anything. I actually 179 00:09:50,130 --> 00:09:53,340 S3: start this book fearless with what my father used to 180 00:09:53,340 --> 00:09:55,860 S3: tell me all the time, which was, don't you dare 181 00:09:55,860 --> 00:09:58,470 S3: ever say anything, you know, don't you dare or I 182 00:09:58,470 --> 00:10:00,390 S3: will kill you. And those were the words that I 183 00:10:00,390 --> 00:10:03,810 S3: had in a lot of people that are abused. This 184 00:10:03,809 --> 00:10:06,120 S3: is what you hear. It's all about silence. That's how 185 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,990 S3: abusers and perpetrators function. That's how they keep control and 186 00:10:09,990 --> 00:10:14,040 S3: that's how they manipulate and put you down. So for 187 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,230 S3: a very long time, yes, I put on a brave face, 188 00:10:16,230 --> 00:10:18,990 S3: but it only goes on for so long. You can't 189 00:10:18,990 --> 00:10:24,120 S3: do that forever. And we've seen that with everybody that 190 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,750 S3: has come out and talked about it. And Grace tame 191 00:10:27,750 --> 00:10:31,110 S3: is such an inspiration. She is one person, the women 192 00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:34,170 S3: that came out with the MeToo movement. I'll go to 193 00:10:34,170 --> 00:10:36,690 S3: athletes as well as well, Simone Biles and the whole 194 00:10:36,690 --> 00:10:39,840 S3: US gymnastics team and what they've been able to do 195 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,920 S3: and change. You can do it, but you can't do 196 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,730 S3: it forever. And also it is if you can do it, 197 00:10:47,730 --> 00:10:51,929 S3: time to speak up for others. Others that don't have 198 00:10:51,929 --> 00:10:53,579 S3: a voice or feel like they have a voice or 199 00:10:53,580 --> 00:10:57,000 S3: the courage or the strength. So we need to do 200 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,189 S3: it if we can. For everybody else. 201 00:10:59,730 --> 00:11:03,930 S2: You've spoken recently, including an interview with Stella magazine about. 202 00:11:04,450 --> 00:11:08,020 S2: Your experience of living with an eating disorder. And one 203 00:11:08,020 --> 00:11:11,110 S2: of the things that you said really struck me, which 204 00:11:11,110 --> 00:11:14,050 S2: is that you hadn't spoken about it publicly for so 205 00:11:14,050 --> 00:11:18,189 S2: long because you didn't understand it. Can you help me 206 00:11:18,190 --> 00:11:19,510 S2: understand what that means? 207 00:11:19,540 --> 00:11:19,959 S1: Yeah. 208 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,949 S3: Same thing. Similar to like, you talk about PTSD and 209 00:11:24,070 --> 00:11:27,819 S3: I very deliberately, in this book went in depth about 210 00:11:27,820 --> 00:11:31,470 S3: my eating disorder, which I didn't understand for very long time, for, 211 00:11:31,540 --> 00:11:36,640 S3: for 15 years. And I thought of maybe everyone kind 212 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,370 S3: of feels like this about food and has this relationship 213 00:11:39,370 --> 00:11:42,520 S3: with food. So yes, for me it's a binging and 214 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,790 S3: starving disorder where I would eat up to ten times 215 00:11:45,790 --> 00:11:48,550 S3: ten meals a day in one day, then I would 216 00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:52,870 S3: starve myself completely. No food, nothing for 48 hours. Even 217 00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:57,040 S3: with training, even as the hard training that we go 218 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,910 S3: through as athletes. And obviously at first it was so hard, 219 00:12:00,910 --> 00:12:03,309 S3: but then you kind of almost get used to it 220 00:12:03,309 --> 00:12:07,360 S3: and torturing your body. And I was doing this while 221 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,599 S3: I was competing and playing, so I was already so 222 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,740 S3: far behind everyone else by doing that. But even more importantly, 223 00:12:14,740 --> 00:12:19,540 S3: even after I retired, because I didn't understand it, because 224 00:12:19,780 --> 00:12:24,730 S3: in a way I've never heard or seen anyone talk 225 00:12:24,730 --> 00:12:27,370 S3: about it, I couldn't resonate with anyone for a very 226 00:12:27,370 --> 00:12:30,370 S3: long time with things that I went through, and that's 227 00:12:30,370 --> 00:12:32,890 S3: why I have such a passion for telling my story 228 00:12:32,890 --> 00:12:35,890 S3: and doing it now, because there might be someone out 229 00:12:35,890 --> 00:12:38,349 S3: there that sees my story, that one person, and it 230 00:12:38,350 --> 00:12:41,920 S3: might change everything for them. And yeah, my eating disorder 231 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,040 S3: is something that, yeah, I've battled for a very long time, 232 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,650 S3: didn't understand it because I didn't know what it was, 233 00:12:47,650 --> 00:12:51,339 S3: and I didn't know that I was battling to that extent. 234 00:12:51,340 --> 00:12:55,000 S3: But then at the same time, especially kind of in 235 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,239 S3: the last year or two, I knew that that was 236 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,450 S3: my comfort food and eating was my comfort, and it 237 00:13:01,450 --> 00:13:04,780 S3: was the one thing that didn't disappoint, because when you're 238 00:13:04,780 --> 00:13:09,580 S3: disappointed and let down by so many people, especially your family, 239 00:13:09,730 --> 00:13:12,819 S3: which are supposed to kind of be your rock, and 240 00:13:12,820 --> 00:13:16,720 S3: then no matter what that was, then my safety and 241 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:18,790 S3: that was I went to food. A lot of people 242 00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:22,990 S3: that go through trauma will battle things like certain eating 243 00:13:22,990 --> 00:13:26,860 S3: disorders or addictions or mental health battles, and I've had that. 244 00:13:26,860 --> 00:13:29,680 S3: So I finally kind of understood that that was because 245 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,870 S3: of my trauma. Once I started dealing with it and 246 00:13:31,870 --> 00:13:35,650 S3: healing from it. And it did start with unbreakable, but 247 00:13:35,650 --> 00:13:38,679 S3: it was only the start. I could now understand it 248 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,800 S3: and actually deal with it, get help, and now I'm 249 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,490 S3: really understanding it where it comes from, how my emotions work. 250 00:13:45,490 --> 00:13:48,880 S3: And now I'm actually starting to find that more balanced 251 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,050 S3: and healthier lifestyle. 252 00:14:00,420 --> 00:14:03,449 S2: I watched with look, I feel like I was fist 253 00:14:03,450 --> 00:14:07,350 S2: pumping from from the couch earlier this year during the 254 00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:11,130 S2: Australian Open when you. If I was writing the media article, 255 00:14:11,130 --> 00:14:14,010 S2: I'd say hit back at some of the online body 256 00:14:14,010 --> 00:14:17,460 S2: shaming that that you experienced when you were commentating during 257 00:14:17,460 --> 00:14:19,770 S2: the Australian Open. Can you tell me a bit about 258 00:14:19,770 --> 00:14:23,040 S2: what you had to put up with, and also why 259 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:26,460 S2: it was important for you to say something, particularly about 260 00:14:26,460 --> 00:14:29,400 S2: the nature of online abuse and bullying? 261 00:14:30,420 --> 00:14:35,610 S3: It was extremely important and it was something that I 262 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:40,080 S3: had to talk about openly, publicly and fight it. I 263 00:14:40,110 --> 00:14:42,720 S3: did it last year, and then I did it this year, 264 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,500 S3: because when the summer of tennis and the Australian Open 265 00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:50,310 S3: comes around, there is so much attention, and that includes 266 00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:52,650 S3: on everybody that's in the public eye and that that 267 00:14:52,650 --> 00:14:57,810 S3: includes us commentators and hosts and TV personalities. And it's 268 00:14:57,810 --> 00:15:01,800 S3: always around that time that there's so much judgment going around. 269 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,530 S3: And I actually spoke about it to, like I said, 270 00:15:04,530 --> 00:15:07,260 S3: a couple of years and I got a lot of support. 271 00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:12,270 S3: But this year something shifted. Something changed. This year, everybody 272 00:15:12,270 --> 00:15:16,140 S3: stood up. Not just people that follow me and my story, 273 00:15:16,140 --> 00:15:20,250 S3: but everybody, even people that didn't know me, the media 274 00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:22,560 S3: as well. There was so much support and I'm so 275 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,250 S3: grateful for that. But yeah, I'm very happy because they 276 00:15:26,250 --> 00:15:29,700 S3: haven't just stood up for what I was kind of saying, 277 00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:34,590 S3: which was we need to really talk openly about body shaming, 278 00:15:34,590 --> 00:15:39,600 S3: about trolling, social media abuse. And actually we really need 279 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,930 S3: to pay attention to what needs to stop, especially, I think, 280 00:15:42,930 --> 00:15:45,930 S3: towards women and looks and women that are in the 281 00:15:45,930 --> 00:15:49,110 S3: public eye. But yeah, everybody stood up and listened and 282 00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:51,780 S3: really supported it. Articles were amazing. Like you said, the 283 00:15:51,780 --> 00:15:55,410 S3: media as well used their platform to actually spread the 284 00:15:55,410 --> 00:15:58,110 S3: word and I'm so grateful for that. But why did 285 00:15:58,110 --> 00:16:01,920 S3: that happen? Because sharing my story and sharing what I 286 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,590 S3: was going through, the messages that I was getting, which 287 00:16:04,590 --> 00:16:07,020 S3: were vile, and I posted them and I posted them 288 00:16:07,020 --> 00:16:09,690 S3: on purpose so that people see what we go through. 289 00:16:10,170 --> 00:16:13,140 S3: It changed something. People stood up and said, enough is 290 00:16:13,140 --> 00:16:16,230 S3: enough because people that are on social media and I'm 291 00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:19,260 S3: only on Instagram, I'm actually using it for something good. 292 00:16:19,260 --> 00:16:22,800 S3: I'm trying to use it for something positive. We should 293 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,610 S3: be able to do that without having to face all 294 00:16:26,610 --> 00:16:30,690 S3: of this. It's not even judgement. It's actually really mean 295 00:16:30,690 --> 00:16:34,110 S3: comments that you never know how they might affect people. 296 00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:37,770 S3: And I feel like it's such an important battle to 297 00:16:37,770 --> 00:16:40,680 S3: fight because we can't just sweep it under the rug. 298 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,530 S3: It is not normal just because someone can be behind 299 00:16:43,530 --> 00:16:47,010 S3: a keyboard and write something. And I know that I 300 00:16:47,010 --> 00:16:49,440 S3: can use the block button and trust me, I do. 301 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,960 S3: But that's not the point. We should be able to 302 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,390 S3: have this freedom to be either. I'm not hurting anyone. 303 00:16:54,390 --> 00:16:57,210 S3: In fact, I'm using it for something positive and then 304 00:16:57,210 --> 00:17:00,120 S3: you get all this backlash. But also it was about 305 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,930 S3: body shaming as well. I was body shamed and it's 306 00:17:03,930 --> 00:17:07,080 S3: not okay. I should be if I am judged, let's 307 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,010 S3: say it should be on my work ethic, on my commentary, 308 00:17:11,460 --> 00:17:15,600 S3: on how much good I do. I really work so 309 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,360 S3: hard at being kind to people and all of these 310 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,359 S3: different things, and that's all of a sudden nobody looks 311 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,510 S3: at that. It's whether you're a size four or 10 312 00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:30,629 S3: or 16, my measurements and my size does not define me. 313 00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:34,740 S3: My IQ and everything that I do are then sadly, 314 00:17:34,740 --> 00:17:37,230 S3: that's what we got to. That's what I was judged 315 00:17:37,230 --> 00:17:40,650 S3: on and that's all people saw. So it was disappointing 316 00:17:40,650 --> 00:17:42,359 S3: because I know that I was not the only one. 317 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,330 S3: And on the other hand, I was working so hard 318 00:17:45,330 --> 00:17:47,910 S3: at my commentary and when I go out there and 319 00:17:47,910 --> 00:17:50,280 S3: interview players and I really try and make it fun 320 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,640 S3: for everybody, people watching at home, people in the stands, 321 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,490 S3: and you're trying to do all this really good work. 322 00:17:56,490 --> 00:18:00,000 S3: Also on the side with my charity work and everything else, 323 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,080 S3: and it's not recognised when in all of these body 324 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,530 S3: shaming comments or articles come out. So that was really 325 00:18:07,530 --> 00:18:09,480 S3: important to fight that. And I said I'm going to 326 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,850 S3: continue doing it. And I still say that that I 327 00:18:11,850 --> 00:18:15,090 S3: will continue doing that because we can't just let it slide. 328 00:18:15,090 --> 00:18:18,629 S3: Enough is enough. And also I want to fight for that, 329 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,710 S3: you know, 14 year old girl that sees that and goes, 330 00:18:22,710 --> 00:18:24,810 S3: oh my God, I actually feel like I'm hurt. I 331 00:18:24,810 --> 00:18:27,330 S3: have a voice here. That's what I'm fighting for. Not 332 00:18:27,330 --> 00:18:30,000 S3: even myself. I'm fighting for for those girls and for 333 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:30,780 S3: everyone else. 334 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,000 S2: They are lucky to have you. You know, I think 335 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,810 S2: about my own teenage years and the kind of television 336 00:18:36,810 --> 00:18:40,889 S2: shows and movies and magazines and what was put in 337 00:18:40,890 --> 00:18:43,860 S2: front of us as commentary. That meant that it was 338 00:18:43,859 --> 00:18:48,119 S2: normalised to think that someone's worth was connected to their weight. 339 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,729 S2: And I think, I think 13 year old me would 340 00:18:50,730 --> 00:18:53,280 S2: have loved to have you to look up to. Well, 341 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,169 S2: I did, except I was looking up to your tennis 342 00:18:55,170 --> 00:18:57,850 S2: at the time, but nonetheless. Also, if it had been now, 343 00:18:57,850 --> 00:18:59,669 S2: it would have been looking up to you for another reason. 344 00:19:00,340 --> 00:19:00,820 S4: Thank you. 345 00:19:01,250 --> 00:19:06,340 S2: And I know that as and you talk about in 346 00:19:06,340 --> 00:19:10,090 S2: in the book, you talk about the fortune that you 347 00:19:10,090 --> 00:19:13,479 S2: had made through your incredible work on the tennis court 348 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,980 S2: that your father took from you. And the reality is 349 00:19:17,980 --> 00:19:23,260 S2: that mental health care and support is really expensive in 350 00:19:23,260 --> 00:19:26,139 S2: this country, especially, and not always easy to access. It 351 00:19:26,140 --> 00:19:29,380 S2: costs money to to access the right kind of support, 352 00:19:29,380 --> 00:19:31,000 S2: to be able to deal with the kind of trauma 353 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,850 S2: that you've been through and that you've shared in the book. 354 00:19:34,750 --> 00:19:36,669 S2: I imagine there are a whole lot of people listening 355 00:19:36,670 --> 00:19:38,320 S2: who want to make sure and want to know that 356 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,910 S2: you're okay, and you've been able to rebuild your own 357 00:19:42,910 --> 00:19:45,910 S2: economic security after it was stolen from you. 358 00:19:46,510 --> 00:19:50,740 S3: Yeah, I am, but I talked about that again on 359 00:19:50,740 --> 00:19:55,750 S3: purpose because I that was also, let's say, financial abuse 360 00:19:55,750 --> 00:19:59,500 S3: as well, to give away millions and millions. But to 361 00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:02,920 S3: be honest, I've wanted freedom and happiness and that's all 362 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,080 S3: my father cared about. So I thought that I would 363 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,679 S3: get it with that. But unfortunately, with abuse and abuses, 364 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:13,210 S3: it never stops and they're never satisfied. But yeah, I've 365 00:20:13,210 --> 00:20:16,300 S3: been able to absolutely rebuild. But when you talk about 366 00:20:16,540 --> 00:20:19,660 S3: the cost of of getting help and the cost of 367 00:20:19,660 --> 00:20:23,170 S3: getting mental health to help and being able to do 368 00:20:23,170 --> 00:20:26,890 S3: it consistently with a, with a professional, but also when 369 00:20:26,890 --> 00:20:33,460 S3: it comes to domestic violence and women, then also not 370 00:20:33,460 --> 00:20:37,630 S3: having that opportunity to start, I think from the beginning 371 00:20:37,630 --> 00:20:40,600 S3: when they leave, especially when they live with kids as well. 372 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,020 S3: So that kind of equity as well is really big. 373 00:20:44,020 --> 00:20:46,660 S3: I talk about that towards the end of my book 374 00:20:46,660 --> 00:20:50,409 S3: and I think moving forward as well. I don't know 375 00:20:50,410 --> 00:20:52,660 S3: what that is right now, and I'm kind of glad 376 00:20:52,660 --> 00:20:54,730 S3: you touched on it, but that's what I want. That's 377 00:20:54,730 --> 00:20:57,550 S3: the work I want to do. That's what I want 378 00:20:57,550 --> 00:21:00,700 S3: to see how we can change things and make it 379 00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:05,590 S3: that people have mental health professionals and the help that 380 00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:08,470 S3: they need more accessible, and that it's not that expensive. 381 00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:12,070 S3: But same goes for people that leave a domestic violence 382 00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:15,200 S3: and a family violence situation. And how do they rebuild? 383 00:21:15,220 --> 00:21:18,399 S3: I spoke about it earlier this year on Q&A, actually, 384 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,440 S3: and the whole conversation around superannuation and whether it's worth 385 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,890 S3: having something where, you know, small portion if you really 386 00:21:26,890 --> 00:21:30,010 S3: do find yourself out on the street, which domestic violence 387 00:21:30,010 --> 00:21:33,910 S3: and family violence, 99% of the time you leave, you 388 00:21:33,910 --> 00:21:36,820 S3: are out on the street, especially with kids. Whether it's 389 00:21:36,820 --> 00:21:39,310 S3: worth having something that you can just withdraw, something to 390 00:21:39,310 --> 00:21:43,510 S3: start again, because the numbers of women and girls going 391 00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:49,990 S3: back to a domestic violence family or home is 90% 392 00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:53,469 S3: within the first six weeks because it is so hard 393 00:21:53,470 --> 00:21:58,000 S3: to start again. So yeah, I want to continue those conversations, 394 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,070 S3: and I want to continue that on a bigger level 395 00:22:00,070 --> 00:22:03,670 S3: so that we can do something and make it easier 396 00:22:03,670 --> 00:22:05,950 S3: for people. I was basically when I left at 19 397 00:22:05,950 --> 00:22:08,500 S3: out on the street. It's just that I was lucky 398 00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:11,109 S3: that I was going to the next tournament and my 399 00:22:11,109 --> 00:22:13,900 S3: my next paycheck was within a few weeks, but I 400 00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:16,690 S3: still had to worry about it and go, okay, I've 401 00:22:16,690 --> 00:22:19,300 S3: got nothing here. I've just got my racquet bag and 402 00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:22,990 S3: I've got my suitcase. I'm here at a tournament and 403 00:22:23,470 --> 00:22:25,930 S3: what happens from here? Like if I need something, I 404 00:22:25,930 --> 00:22:29,410 S3: had no money. So yeah, I know what that kind 405 00:22:29,410 --> 00:22:32,500 S3: of feels like. And I hope that in the future 406 00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:36,010 S3: we can do more. And that includes getting that mental 407 00:22:36,010 --> 00:22:38,740 S3: health help and making it more accessible. 408 00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:41,680 S2: Elaine, I want to thank you for joining me again 409 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,140 S2: on the Weekend Briefing. It's been a few years since 410 00:22:44,140 --> 00:22:47,020 S2: we've had you on the show, and I have so 411 00:22:47,020 --> 00:22:50,590 S2: enjoyed reading fearless. There's a line in it where you say, 412 00:22:50,590 --> 00:22:53,890 S2: I am not fully healed, I am not fully recovered. 413 00:22:53,890 --> 00:22:56,290 S2: I am a work in progress, I think. I think 414 00:22:56,290 --> 00:22:58,600 S2: we're all works in progress, but the next thing you 415 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,379 S2: say is that you're also a fighter and you're someone 416 00:23:02,380 --> 00:23:04,720 S2: who fights not just for yourself, but for so many 417 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,180 S2: people around you and so many people you've never even met. 418 00:23:07,180 --> 00:23:08,949 S2: So I want to say thank you so much for that. 419 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,800 S3: Oh, no, thank you. Thank you for having me, I think. Yeah, 420 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,199 S3: like you said, especially if you've gone through trauma and 421 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,649 S3: you will always kind of be healing. But once you 422 00:23:17,650 --> 00:23:21,699 S3: start that process and you can really look forward, and 423 00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:23,679 S3: that's what the end of my towards the end of 424 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,109 S3: my book, I talk about it's about that acceptance and 425 00:23:26,109 --> 00:23:29,680 S3: moving forward, knowing that you're worthy. Your past doesn't define 426 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,820 S3: you or defeat you, and it's all about hanging in there. 427 00:23:33,820 --> 00:23:35,830 S3: But most importantly, and I think that that's why I 428 00:23:35,830 --> 00:23:37,480 S3: got through a lot of things, which is actually a 429 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,910 S3: question I get asked often, is how I did it. 430 00:23:39,910 --> 00:23:44,170 S3: Is that belief, that belief in yourself? Never give up 431 00:23:44,170 --> 00:23:47,110 S3: on yourself and know that you can get through it, 432 00:23:47,109 --> 00:23:50,770 S3: and never letting anyone put you down and always fighting 433 00:23:50,770 --> 00:23:54,340 S3: and always believing, and most importantly, never giving up on 434 00:23:54,340 --> 00:23:57,850 S3: your dreams and on yourself. So yeah, I hope that 435 00:23:57,850 --> 00:24:01,350 S3: people can definitely get that. Message as well. Towards the 436 00:24:01,350 --> 00:24:04,199 S3: end of my book, and ultimately I do want it 437 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,830 S3: to be a book of hope and strength. So yeah, 438 00:24:06,869 --> 00:24:08,970 S3: that's my wish with this book. And if I can 439 00:24:08,970 --> 00:24:12,119 S3: help again, like I say, even with unbreakable, if it 440 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,150 S3: helps that one person and if it changes their life 441 00:24:15,150 --> 00:24:18,400 S3: and if it saves their life, it's so worth it. 442 00:24:18,420 --> 00:24:21,930 S3: You don't get to save lives every day in your 443 00:24:21,930 --> 00:24:23,940 S3: own life. So if I can do it, I'll be 444 00:24:23,940 --> 00:24:26,040 S3: the happiest person in the world. And that's what I 445 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,710 S3: want my legacy to be. And thank you for giving 446 00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:31,709 S3: me the opportunity again, to talk about my book and 447 00:24:31,710 --> 00:24:35,430 S3: have this conversation. You are so inspirational to me, and 448 00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:38,700 S3: you are the definition of inspirational and being a fighter 449 00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:41,940 S3: and having that courage. So it really is an honor 450 00:24:41,940 --> 00:24:42,990 S3: for me to talk to you. 451 00:24:46,210 --> 00:24:49,300 S1: Well, that's it for Camilla's conversation with Jelena Dokic. And 452 00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:51,310 S1: you can get your hands on your Lena's new book, 453 00:24:51,310 --> 00:24:56,020 S1: Fearless Finding the power to thrive at Any Good Bookstore. 454 00:24:56,140 --> 00:24:59,350 S1: And remember, if anything in this conversation brought up some 455 00:24:59,350 --> 00:25:01,900 S1: issues or feelings for you, there are people you can 456 00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:05,590 S1: talk to 24 over seven. One 800 respect or that's 457 00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:14,260 S1: 1800 737 732 and there's also lifeline at 13 1114. But now 458 00:25:14,260 --> 00:25:16,659 S1: it's time for the list with Helen Smith. 459 00:25:20,170 --> 00:25:24,040 S5: Alrighty. It's time for the weekend list. It's Helen here 460 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,460 S5: producer of the Weekend Briefing, and I'll be pumping out 461 00:25:27,460 --> 00:25:34,360 S5: some recommendations this week. My first recommendation is a TV show. Surprise, surprise. 462 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:39,250 S5: I've been binging again. So Beckham on Netflix. That's my 463 00:25:39,250 --> 00:25:43,390 S5: first recommendation. If you love the story of Becks and Posh, 464 00:25:43,390 --> 00:25:45,840 S5: this is for you or if you kind of like, 465 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,490 S5: knew about a few of the scandals or you grew 466 00:25:48,490 --> 00:25:50,920 S5: up with the Spice Girls, but you don't know the 467 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,369 S5: ins and outs, I highly recommend this. Now. It does 468 00:25:54,369 --> 00:25:57,040 S5: go into the football world quite a bit and goes 469 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,310 S5: into how like Becks kind of made his start, but 470 00:26:00,310 --> 00:26:02,980 S5: I actually really enjoyed that. But I think that's because 471 00:26:02,980 --> 00:26:05,530 S5: I've been binging Wrexham as well. I'm kind of in 472 00:26:05,530 --> 00:26:09,250 S5: this UK football world at the moment, but I think 473 00:26:09,250 --> 00:26:12,310 S5: it still could have focused a little bit more on 474 00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:16,240 S5: Victoria if I, if I do say, but I really 475 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,620 S5: just loved how the show kind of highlights their love 476 00:26:20,619 --> 00:26:24,940 S5: for one another and how much effort they went into 477 00:26:24,940 --> 00:26:26,920 S5: seeing each other and being with each other at the 478 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:33,190 S5: start of their relationship. So David Beckham would fly, drive, 479 00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:36,940 S5: answer the phone at any hour of the night just 480 00:26:36,940 --> 00:26:40,570 S5: to be with Victoria. Like someone's going to drive five 481 00:26:40,570 --> 00:26:43,129 S5: hours just to spend an hour with you. Drive three 482 00:26:43,130 --> 00:26:46,150 S5: hours to spend like 30 minutes with you that I 483 00:26:46,150 --> 00:26:47,949 S5: don't know. If that's not love, then I don't know 484 00:26:47,950 --> 00:26:50,830 S5: what it is like. That is commitment. And he would 485 00:26:50,830 --> 00:26:53,410 S5: just answer that phone any time of the day. Just 486 00:26:53,410 --> 00:26:56,080 S5: working around Victoria's schedule when she was doing all her 487 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,040 S5: Spice Girl stuff and touring the world as an icon. 488 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,130 S5: So I really love that aspect. I didn't know much 489 00:27:03,130 --> 00:27:06,580 S5: about that. But another thing, it does touch on the 490 00:27:06,580 --> 00:27:12,010 S5: cheating scandals and rumours between David and Victoria David doing 491 00:27:12,010 --> 00:27:16,090 S5: the cheating. But if you really want a deep dive, 492 00:27:16,090 --> 00:27:20,350 S5: I would definitely recommend shameless the podcast. So Mitch and Zara, 493 00:27:20,350 --> 00:27:24,370 S5: the host, have done an amazing three part app that 494 00:27:24,369 --> 00:27:28,930 S5: they've just rereleased called David and Victoria Beckham, a special 495 00:27:28,930 --> 00:27:32,500 S5: from the archives. But after watching this and Relistening to 496 00:27:32,500 --> 00:27:35,500 S5: the shameless podcast, it really it just made me love 497 00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:39,190 S5: Victoria even more. So that's my first wreck now. My 498 00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:44,530 S5: second recommendation is Who Killed Jill Dando on Netflix? So 499 00:27:44,530 --> 00:27:48,159 S5: it's about this famous TV news presenter, and I'd actually 500 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,380 S5: never heard of her, but she's pretty much just like 501 00:27:50,380 --> 00:27:54,490 S5: the Princess Diana of news presenters. And I'm not giving 502 00:27:54,490 --> 00:27:58,720 S5: anything away here. But the story is based on Jill 503 00:27:58,750 --> 00:28:04,240 S5: being murdered at her doorstep. So the resources that went 504 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,740 S5: into this murder investigation are outstanding. But at the same time, 505 00:28:08,740 --> 00:28:11,470 S5: the series points out all of these key parts of 506 00:28:11,470 --> 00:28:15,340 S5: evidence that they missed. And it's just an extraordinary story. 507 00:28:15,340 --> 00:28:18,880 S5: The investigation went on for well over a year, and 508 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,780 S5: the police, like, really had to be careful with who 509 00:28:22,780 --> 00:28:26,350 S5: they were naming or who they were making a suspect 510 00:28:26,350 --> 00:28:30,730 S5: or potentially arresting, because they said that person would then 511 00:28:30,730 --> 00:28:34,630 S5: have been the most hated person in Britain. That's how 512 00:28:34,630 --> 00:28:37,990 S5: big Jill was, and she really had an effect on 513 00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:41,500 S5: her viewers. Now, the ending did kind of leave me hanging, 514 00:28:41,500 --> 00:28:45,040 S5: but it's still a great watch and I'd love to 515 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,290 S5: know what you think. But if you're a true crime 516 00:28:47,290 --> 00:28:49,570 S5: junkie like me, I think you're going to love it. 517 00:28:49,570 --> 00:28:53,890 S6: She was so polished and so professional in many ways. 518 00:28:53,890 --> 00:28:57,250 S6: I think people saw Jill as a TV. Diana, so. 519 00:28:57,250 --> 00:28:58,810 S7: Glamorous is wonderful. 520 00:28:59,230 --> 00:29:00,850 S8: Jill was at the top of her game. 521 00:29:00,940 --> 00:29:02,710 S6: She was the nation's sweetheart. 522 00:29:03,190 --> 00:29:09,460 S9: The golden girl of British television. Murdered on her doorstep. 523 00:29:10,530 --> 00:29:11,640 S9: In broad daylight. 524 00:29:13,290 --> 00:29:15,630 S5: Now that's it for this week. Thank you so much 525 00:29:15,630 --> 00:29:18,060 S5: for being with us and tuning in. As always. It's 526 00:29:18,060 --> 00:29:21,090 S5: a pleasure. Now, if you want more of the weekend briefing, 527 00:29:21,090 --> 00:29:23,220 S5: you can find us on the listener app. You can 528 00:29:23,220 --> 00:29:25,530 S5: download the listener app in the App Store and you 529 00:29:25,530 --> 00:29:29,010 S5: can follow us there. Otherwise, you can follow or subscribe 530 00:29:29,010 --> 00:29:32,140 S5: wherever you get your podcasts from. And hey, why don't 531 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,610 S5: give us a rating and review for this fabulous interview 532 00:29:35,610 --> 00:29:40,110 S5: with Yelena Dokic? And FYI, you can actually rate and 533 00:29:40,110 --> 00:29:43,500 S5: review every app, so we will be back bright and 534 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:46,080 S5: early on Monday morning when Tom Tilley and the team 535 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,710 S5: will have the latest headlines straight to your earphones, along 536 00:29:49,710 --> 00:29:59,340 S5: with some amazing interviews. Stay safe everyone! Listener.