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Speaker 1: Live from the Heartbeyer and the Crossroads of America. It's

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Speaker 1: Tony Katz Today. Well, hey, everybody, Andrew Langer in for

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Speaker 1: Tony Katz today on Tony Katz Today. So glad I

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Speaker 1: can join you and you can join me on this Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: you can join the conversation. Drop me a note on

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Speaker 1: x at Andrew Underscore Langer l a n G e

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Speaker 1: er also Facebook dot com slash Andrew Langer Show. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you like what you hear, you know I do

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Speaker 1: a fair amount of radio work. Also do a couple

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Speaker 1: of podcasts like everybody else in America these days. But

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Speaker 1: if you have an interest in public policy and a

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Speaker 1: deep dive into public policy, check out my launch Hour podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's a weekly as this a deep dive into public

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Speaker 1: policy issues. This week we're talking about pharmacy benefits managers.

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Speaker 1: I'm joined by An Cassidy who's from the Association of

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Speaker 1: Community Pharmacists. Next week it's going to be a counterpoint

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Speaker 1: guy named Jeremy Negosian from the Competitive Enterprise Institute. But

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Speaker 1: you know, we talk about all kinds of things on

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Speaker 1: the Lunch Hour. Go and check that out and then

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Speaker 1: I do my work for SEAPAC as the director of

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Speaker 1: the Center for Regulatory Freedom uh and the chairman or

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Speaker 1: the executive director of the Coalition Against Socialized Medicine. Go

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Speaker 1: and and check me out. Use you said, if you

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Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter, you'll find out everything that I

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Speaker 1: am up to. So one of the things I didn't play,

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Speaker 1: and I'm probably not going to play it is Ron

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Speaker 1: Johnson sort of response to what's going on. You know

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Speaker 1: that this so called attack on elan Omar last night,

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Speaker 1: it was rocketing around some guy log I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you spit on her, through water on her or

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Speaker 1: what have you, took a big swig of water and

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Speaker 1: then and then some kind of liquid was on her.

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Speaker 1: It's very clear that the guy who is who did

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Speaker 1: this is as a as a as an Illin fan,

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Speaker 1: or at least a squad fan. There's plenty of plenty

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Speaker 1: of pictures that are out there saying this anyway, So

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Speaker 1: so you know, we all see how these things, how

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Speaker 1: these things happen. Folks want to get themselves in the media.

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Speaker 1: This is all part of the chaos strategy that's out there.

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Speaker 1: But I'd be remiss if I didn't talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about this. Cloward Piven strategy issue. Let's let's

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Speaker 1: go here. I referenced this earlier and a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago I talked about Hegelian dialecta Hegel, who was

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Speaker 1: a German philosopher precursor to Marx and Engels, talked about

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Speaker 1: sort of exacerbating crises. Then Cloward and Piven, who were

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Speaker 1: political scientists, they sort of reframed it for the modern era.

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Speaker 1: Here is Charlie Kirk talking about the Cloward Piven strategy.

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Speaker 1: Let's play cut number ten.

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Speaker 2: Are being pummeled right now by this regime every single day.

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Speaker 2: They are trying to destabilize the country. There is a

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Speaker 2: theory called the Cloward Piven political strategy or political theory

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Speaker 2: that was introduced by political theorists back in the nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixties nineteen seventies, and they said, the way that we

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Speaker 2: are going to get left wing domination, the way that

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Speaker 2: we are going to get Marxist politics, it's by three things.

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Speaker 2: Building a permanent deep state bureaucracy in Washington.

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Speaker 3: D C.

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Speaker 2: Barring so much money that will never be able to

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Speaker 2: pay back and bankrupting the country, and having mass migration

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Speaker 2: of people from all over the world, and flooding the

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Speaker 2: system immigration. I wonder what those three things would ever

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Speaker 2: look like if they came into practice. You can look

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Speaker 2: it up Cloward Piven strategy. What you are living through

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Speaker 2: right now is not a mistake. It's not that Joe

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Speaker 2: Biden and the current White House they're stupid. They know

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Speaker 2: what they're doing. They know exactly what they're doing. It's

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Speaker 2: a strategy, it's a plan. They're trying to overload the

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Speaker 2: system so they could break it so then they can

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Speaker 2: build whatever comes next. And if we have anything to

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Speaker 2: say about it, we're going to say no and keep

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Speaker 2: on building something that's bold and beautiful and hopefully rooted

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Speaker 2: in traditional conservative American value principles.

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Speaker 1: And rooted in some kind of objective truth.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing that gets me right, is this idea

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Speaker 1: of you know, we no longer have this objective truth.

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Speaker 1: I pre recorded an interview with somebody for another show

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Speaker 1: and talked about one of these situations that we have

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Speaker 1: in Maryland. I don't live in Maryland anymore. I did

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Speaker 1: for a long time. But you know, as the Democrats

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Speaker 1: are trying to consolidate power, they are and yes, I

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Speaker 1: get this, there are other states that are engaging in jerrymandering,

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Speaker 1: but they're engaging in jerrymandering. Conservatives, I mean, are engaging

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Speaker 1: in jerrymandering because the states' maps don't actually reflect the

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Speaker 1: political population. But in states like Maryland and Virginia, right

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Speaker 1: where you have in Virginia, it's nearly fifty to fifty

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Speaker 1: in terms of sort of political leanings. The Democrats who

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Speaker 1: are now in power in Virginia don't like that. In Maryland,

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Speaker 1: it's a little different. Right in Maryland, it is essentially

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Speaker 1: sixty forty maybe sixty thirty, yeah, two to one, sixty

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Speaker 1: thirty registrations Democrats versus or conservatives versus liberals, so sixty

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Speaker 1: percent would be the liberals. And yet what they're trying

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Speaker 1: to do right now, of the what is it eight

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Speaker 1: congressional districts in Maryland, seven of them are seven of

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Speaker 1: them are Democrats, and obviously the two senators are Democrats,

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Speaker 1: the governor's a Democrat, and so they have been trying

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Speaker 1: to get at the Maryland's first congressional district for years.

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Speaker 1: So what did they do. They proposed a new map

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Speaker 1: this week that would essentially wipe out this conservative bastion

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Speaker 1: in Maryland's Eastern Shore and other parts of rural Maryland

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Speaker 1: and break it up and make it so that they

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Speaker 1: would be absorbed into these other left leaning congressional districts.

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Speaker 1: And what do they do by way of talking about

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Speaker 1: the issue of objective truth? What did they do was

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Speaker 1: they eliminated on their map the Chesapeake Bay, which is

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Speaker 1: this huge honkin body of water, not in the middle

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Speaker 1: of Maryland, but separating the western shore where Annapolis and

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Speaker 1: Baltimore are from the eastern shore. Right. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: is insane, you know, but that's what they're doing, sort

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Speaker 1: of on this departure from objective truth. And I teed

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Speaker 1: this up earlier, departing from objective truth cloward pivet strategy.

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Speaker 1: Here is Joe Biden in twenty twenty four June of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, right before he was forced to step

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Speaker 1: out of the presidential race, claiming that they had solved

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Speaker 1: the border crisis. Let's clay cut number nine.

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Speaker 5: Today, I'm announcing actions to bar migrants who cross our

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Speaker 5: southern border unlawfully from receiving a style. Migrants will be

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Speaker 5: restricted from receiving asylum at our southern border unless they

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Speaker 5: seek it after entering through an established lawful process. Those

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Speaker 5: who seek come to the United States legally, for example,

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Speaker 5: by making an appointment and coming to a port of entry.

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Speaker 5: Asylum will still be available to them, still available. But

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Speaker 5: if an individual chooses not to use our legal pathways,

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Speaker 5: if they choose to come without permission and against the law,

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Speaker 5: they'll be restricted from receiving an asylum and staying in

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Speaker 5: the United States. This ACTU will help us gain control

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Speaker 5: of our border, restore order into the process. As far

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Speaker 5: as I'm concerned, if you're not willing to spend the

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Speaker 5: money to hire more border patrol agents, more asylum officers,

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Speaker 5: more judges, more high tech machinery, you're just not serious

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Speaker 5: by protecting our border. So as simple as.

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Speaker 3: That, I got it.

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Speaker 1: You know something, I just I hear that I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be I mean, obviously, I'm always serious on the show,

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Speaker 1: except for when I'm joking. But you know, I hear that,

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Speaker 1: and it just makes me sad, you know, again, setting

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Speaker 1: aside the anger that I feel for how they propped

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Speaker 1: this guy up and how they denied his decline over

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Speaker 1: years declient or they denied that it was happening. You

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Speaker 1: listen to that. Just weeks before he stepped away, and

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Speaker 1: there was clearly something that was just not right, and

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Speaker 1: so I say this, and you know, again getting into

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Speaker 1: what Charlie Kirk had to say about this was by design.

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Speaker 1: It was Joe Biden comes in office. Let's assume for

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Speaker 1: a moment that Joe Biden had was in full control

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Speaker 1: of his mental faculties when he assumed office in January

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one. The very first thing that he did,

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Speaker 1: or among the very first things that he did when

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Speaker 1: he assumed office, was to get rid of nine plus

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Speaker 1: executive orders that the first Trump administration had put in

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Speaker 1: place to deal with the illegal immigrant right. They created

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Speaker 1: the condition and once they had overwhelmed everything, once the

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Speaker 1: disaster had unfolded, then he steps in as he's in

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Speaker 1: the midst of literally the campaign for his political life,

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Speaker 1: and he makes this announcement. Listen, when we come back,

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Speaker 1: I got to tee this up because we got Brandon

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Speaker 1: Arnold from NTU joining us in just a couple of minutes.

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Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the announcements today about the

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Speaker 1: Trump accounts. I'm Andrew Langer. This is Tony Kats Today.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody. I am Andrew Langer in for Tony

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Speaker 1: Katz today. So lots going on now. The President was

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Speaker 1: in Iowa, gave a speech in Iowa, and they were

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Speaker 1: talking about the economy. They brought up a waitress to

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Speaker 1: talk about no taxes on tips. There's a lot going

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Speaker 1: on this year, Lots of changes to the code and

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Speaker 1: lots of good changes. And one of the good things

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Speaker 1: that we were dealing with was the you know, the

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Speaker 1: extension of the standard deduction, which was hugely historic under

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Speaker 1: President Trump's first term. And I want to I want

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Speaker 1: to start here. We're going to jump down a little

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Speaker 1: bit because we're talking about the Trump accounts in a second,

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Speaker 1: but I want to see this up. Scott Bessent was

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Speaker 1: on the Treasure Secretary. It was on CNBC this morning,

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Speaker 1: and here he is talking about because he's also he's

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Speaker 1: not just Treasury Secretary, as he says, he's also now

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Speaker 1: the IRS Commissioner talking about the taxes and twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 1: let's play cut sixteen.

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Speaker 4: I'm also the IRS Commissioner. So I can see that

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Speaker 4: we're probably going to have between another one hundred hundred

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Speaker 4: and fifty billion of refunds, a lot of that going

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Speaker 4: to working families. Based on the President's signature, policies, no

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Speaker 4: tax and tips, no tax and overtime, no text and

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Speaker 4: solid security, deductibility of auto loans for American made cars.

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Speaker 4: So it's going to be a big refund season. Working

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Speaker 4: Americans will reset their withholding and I tell everyone do

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Speaker 4: have a look at your withholding, so that will give

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Speaker 4: you a weekly fill up or monthly fill up in wages.

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Speaker 4: So I think we are containing costs, but more importantly,

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Speaker 4: we're going to see real wage games for working Americans.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because we've talked about the idea

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Speaker 1: of doing a some kind of a receipt from the

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Speaker 1: government or a thank you note from government around tax time.

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Speaker 1: I could see the Trump administration doing this. I could

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Speaker 1: also see it the Democrats getting very angry. Never Trump

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Speaker 1: is getting very angry. The idea is you should remind

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Speaker 1: people close to election time as to what their tax

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Speaker 1: liability is, remind them just how much they're paying. It's funny.

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Speaker 1: Obviously the East Coast got hit with the snow and

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Speaker 1: ice that you guys got hit with as well, in well,

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Speaker 1: lots of folks actually, because it's not just Indianapolis that

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Speaker 1: I'm broadcasting to right now, and a good friend of

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Speaker 1: mine was talking about the issue of being in and

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Speaker 1: around DC and the lack of services they get for

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Speaker 1: what they pay in taxes. So the idea is that maybe,

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Speaker 1: just maybe folks ought to be reminded of that close

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Speaker 1: to election time. There are lots of different ways to

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Speaker 1: skin that cat. But so today they're doing a big

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Speaker 1: summit about the economy. They're talking about these Trump accounts.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk. Let's hear from Scott Bessant again. Let's play

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Speaker 1: cut number fourteen Landon.

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Speaker 6: We've got business leaders, we've got philanthropists, we've got companies

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Speaker 6: that are going to talk about contributing to the Trump accounts.

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Speaker 6: And today we want to raise the profile. We want

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Speaker 6: all Americans to start signing up. So just this week

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Speaker 6: since to start a filing season with the IRS, we

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Speaker 6: have had six hundred thousand families out of an estimated

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Speaker 6: twenty five million already fill out Form forty five forty seven.

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Speaker 7: So it's so people are signing up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so people are signing up. These are the interest

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Speaker 1: bearing tax deferred accounts that are out there. And the

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Speaker 1: idea is you can you can you know, take the

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Speaker 1: one time deal and and interest rule accrue over time,

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Speaker 1: or you can add to it over time, and if

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Speaker 1: you contribute the maximum every month, when your child turns

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Speaker 1: twenty eight, they will have over a million dollars in

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Speaker 1: that account. You know, it's funny because I was explaining

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Speaker 1: this to my older child when they were starting their

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Speaker 1: first job out of college and talking about investments and

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Speaker 1: talking about withholdings and talking about you know, interest bear,

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Speaker 1: you know, interest in mutual funds, and what that meant

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Speaker 1: over time, if you put X number of dollars aside

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Speaker 1: every month, what that would mean in you know, fifteen

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Speaker 1: twenty forty years. This is this is important stuff. Caroline

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Speaker 1: Levitt is at this summit as well. He or she

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Speaker 1: is talking about talking about the Trump account. Let's play

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Speaker 1: at number.

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Speaker 7: Thirteen two stats. I want to point out if I could,

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Speaker 7: I like.

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Speaker 8: To bring the receipts when I know the press will

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Speaker 8: be in the room. Eight percent of Americans don't own stock.

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Speaker 8: But with these Trump accounts, now every single newborn child

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Speaker 8: within the years of eligibility will be invested in the

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Speaker 8: stock market.

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Speaker 7: And I think that's a really beautiful thing.

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Speaker 8: And I know Secretary of McMahon at the Department of

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Speaker 8: Education is working really hard to sort of upgrade our

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Speaker 8: curriculum across the country, allowing states to lead first, so

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Speaker 8: that children can learn about the stock market, can learn

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Speaker 8: about our economy, can learn about these basic life skills

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Speaker 8: that they should be taught in our classrooms. This is

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Speaker 8: something our children are going to be learning about for

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Speaker 8: generations to come and benefiting from themselves.

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Speaker 7: And then secondly, this statistic gloo me away so much.

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Speaker 7: I had the factchecker's fact check it again. But it's true.

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Speaker 8: As parents, if we make maximum contributions to our child's

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Speaker 8: Trump account, the projected value will be nearly one point

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Speaker 8: one million dollars by the time they are twenty eight

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Speaker 8: years old. That is incredible. By the time your child

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Speaker 8: is twenty eight years old, the Trump account could earn

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Speaker 8: them up to one point one million dollars.

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Speaker 7: I'm twenty eight years old right now.

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Speaker 8: I wish I had a Trump account back in nineteen

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Speaker 8: ninety seven.

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Speaker 7: So this is amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's that's the beauty of compound interest.

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Speaker 1: Then that may be the most important piece of financial

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Speaker 1: literacy out there, is the idea of investment. And this

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Speaker 1: is just so it's it's so basic, so axiomatic, but

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Speaker 1: yet it's one that is missed by everybody. It's so

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Speaker 1: funny because we are spending all of this time right

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Speaker 1: now now Listen, I don't want to I could. I

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Speaker 1: could never do math on the air. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to go on the air right now and do math

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Speaker 1: to sort of project what the value of a dollar

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Speaker 1: would be, you know, twenty eight years from now versus today.

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Speaker 1: But certainly you know, again, even in the most conservative

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Speaker 1: sort of bearing investment account, it's going to outpace inflation.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's as we sit here and we

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Speaker 1: talk about credit card interest rates, this is this is

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Speaker 1: the flip side to all of this, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about that with Brandon Arnold. What I appreciate

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Speaker 1: about these Trump accounts is that essentially it is a

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Speaker 1: way of circumventing the dialogue over over social security and

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Speaker 1: the privatization of Social Security. I mean, essentially what has

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Speaker 1: happened here is UH, Team Trump and the Republicans have

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Speaker 1: have sidestepped this because the idea being that if you

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Speaker 1: simply kept this UH kept the the these funds, if

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Speaker 1: you invest on a monthly basis, you you you hedge

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Speaker 1: on whether or not there's going to be Social Security

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Speaker 1: down the road, right if you don't take it out

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Speaker 1: at a twenty eight, but you continue down this road

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Speaker 1: the ideas maybe these are funds that can be that

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Speaker 1: can be retired upon, right. I mean, one of the

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Speaker 1: problems that we've had over time. And it's funny. I'm

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Speaker 1: watching I didn't watch the first time around. It's the

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Speaker 1: same thing with the West Wing. I didn't watch the

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Speaker 1: West Wing the first time around, and and finally last

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Speaker 1: summer I decided, you know something, I'm gonna invest I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna watch West Wing. I actually also did the same

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Speaker 1: thing with with mad Men. I never watched mad Men

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Speaker 1: the first time around, so I'm doing this with House

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Speaker 1: of Cards. What I appreciated about the West Wing was

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Speaker 1: it was quaint and I mean, obviously it was the

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Speaker 1: Democrats view of what they wanted the perfect Democrat president

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Speaker 1: to be. Obviously that was Martin Sheen's character, someone that

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Speaker 1: would be palatable, obviously no basis in reality. I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, the producers of a House of Cards essentially

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Speaker 1: create the flip side to that, even though Frank Underwood

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Speaker 1: is a Democrat. But it's fascinating because both shows have

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Speaker 1: dealt with issues that have remained issues today. You know,

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Speaker 1: House of Cards is what ten twelve years old, and

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Speaker 1: obviously West Wing much much older than that. But the

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Speaker 1: problems that they were talking about still and not solve.

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Speaker 1: Right now, I'm in the second season of House of

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Speaker 1: Cards and they're talking about social security and social security

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Speaker 1: retirement ages and all of those things. Well, the point is,

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you know, dealing with

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Speaker 1: social security head on is the third rail of politics

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason. But to me, this circumvents that this

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Speaker 1: side steps it because it gets the solution in place

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Speaker 1: before you tackle the problem. And I think that's a

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Speaker 1: brilliant bit of politics. By the way, breaking news apparently

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Speaker 1: the FED agents involved in the killing of Alex Preddi,

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Speaker 1: the male nurse in Minneapolis, they have been placed on leave.

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Speaker 1: That's breaking news. Here listen. In a moment, we're going

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Speaker 1: to be joined by Brandon Arnold. He is the executive

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Speaker 1: vice president of the National Taxpayers Union. We're going to

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Speaker 1: talk to him about Trump accounts. I got to talk

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Speaker 1: to him about this plan to try to cap credit

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Speaker 1: card debt for our credit card interest rates for a

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Speaker 1: year at ten percent. Yeah, I'm not a fan. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I've got an OpEd that I've written and getting placed

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Speaker 1: right now on that issue. Want to hear from you,

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Speaker 1: Facebook dot com, slash Andrew Lang at Andrew underscro Linger

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Speaker 1: on X. I'm Andrew Langer. This is Tony Kats Today.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody. I am Andrew Langer in for Tony

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Speaker 1: Katz today. Yes, I did just say this before we

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Speaker 1: went to the news. Apparently the federal agents involved in

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Speaker 1: the shooting of the male nurse in Minneapolis have been

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Speaker 1: placed on leave pending the investigation. That's fine. I didn't

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Speaker 1: have a problem that they should be. There should be

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Speaker 1: an investigation of this to make sure everything is done.

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Speaker 1: According to Hoyle. But as we've been talking about, there's

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Speaker 1: lots of economics news out there. I got questions and

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Speaker 1: hopefully I can get answers from my friend colleague, Brandon Arnold.

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Speaker 1: He's the executive vice president of the National Taxpayers Union.

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Speaker 1: How you doing, Brandon, what's going on with.

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Speaker 3: You doing great? Andrew, Always a pleasure to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: Good listen. So Scott Bessont was on there doing this

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Speaker 1: summit about the Trump accounts, but he was talking about

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Speaker 1: the tax news. There's lots of good tax news this season,

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Speaker 1: isn't there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, and tax season has started already. I think

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Speaker 3: people haven't been paying maybe as much attention as they

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Speaker 3: would if it weren't for some of the other news

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Speaker 3: that is taking place, as well as the bad weather

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Speaker 3: and everything. But tax season started on the twenty sixth,

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Speaker 3: just a couple of days ago. People can file their

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Speaker 3: taxes now, and I think when they do so, a

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Speaker 3: lot of people are going to be pleasantly surprised because

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Speaker 3: a lot of those tax provisions that were in the

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Speaker 3: One Big Beautiful Bill or the Working Families tax cut

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Speaker 3: package that passed on July fourth, a lot of those

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Speaker 3: tax provisions were retroactive to the beginning of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: So when people file their taxes, they may not know it,

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Speaker 3: but that child tax Credit, that bigger Child task Credit,

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Speaker 3: that bigger standard deduction, that was all working on their

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Speaker 3: behalf throughout the course of last year, and they're going

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Speaker 3: to get a bump of in some cases thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: or even more in those refund shots, more than they

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Speaker 3: were expecting. And that's great news because consumers taxpayers can

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Speaker 3: certainly use that extra cash right now.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's interesting because you know, actually, let me,

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Speaker 1: let me actually lead into this because I saw a

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Speaker 1: headline on something that was clickbait talking about consumer confidence

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Speaker 1: being at the lowest level in a decade, and I'm thinking, no,

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Speaker 1: that's that's not accurate. It's not accurate, is it, Brandon?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, we're given taxes and given regulation

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Speaker 1: and giving prices have not gone down down, but the

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Speaker 1: rampant inflation is certainly have been curbed. Consumers are feeling

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Speaker 1: better about things, aren't they.

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Speaker 3: Yes? And no, I mean, I think there is some

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Speaker 3: validity to that data that we've seen there. And you know,

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Speaker 3: I think we look at prices and inflation is about

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Speaker 3: where it was actually the beginning of Trump's presidency. It's

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Speaker 3: fluctuated up, it's fluctuated down, but it's pretty much level.

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Speaker 3: We have to think about it, though, not just in

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Speaker 3: terms of that price level, but also all the inflation

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Speaker 3: that took place, of course during the Biden years, when

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Speaker 3: we had approaching double digit inflation. That's all baked into

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Speaker 3: the cake. And on top of that, the other part

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Speaker 3: of the equation is certainly wages. And what really got

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Speaker 3: Biden into hot water was when inflation was increasing at

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Speaker 3: a pace greater than what wages were increasing, So people

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Speaker 3: were effectively getting poor. We're certainly not to that point now,

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Speaker 3: but we've seen a de escalation in wage growth. So

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Speaker 3: that weak labor market that people are talking about, I

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Speaker 3: think that's rearing its ugly head here, and people aren't

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Speaker 3: getting wage increases the way that we would like to

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Speaker 3: the way that they certainly did during the first Trump administration.

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Speaker 3: So until we get wages stabilized along with the price

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Speaker 3: stabilization that we've already seen and hopefully continue in a

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Speaker 3: positive direction, that's when that economic uncertainty enters into the

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Speaker 3: equation as well.

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Speaker 1: Got it, Yeah, No, I get that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Our guest is Brandon Arnold. He is the executive vice

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Speaker 1: president for the National Taxpayers Union. So I meant to

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Speaker 1: ask this. We had Horace Cooper on earlier. I didn't

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Speaker 1: get a chance to talk to him about this much,

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Speaker 1: but this has been weighing heavily in the back of

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Speaker 1: my head, and I want to get your thoughts on this.

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Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago, literally two weeks ago today,

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Speaker 1: the President started talking about a temporary cap on credit

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Speaker 1: card interest rates at ten percent. This is deeply, deeply

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Speaker 1: concerning to me, as it would be, because it is

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Speaker 1: you know, if Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders or AOC

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Speaker 1: talked about it, what are your thoughts here?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I do not like this idea at all. You know,

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Speaker 3: I think so many of Trump's best achievements have been

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Speaker 3: on the deregulatory front. I mean, that's one of the

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Speaker 3: reasons why we look at gas prices. Those have come

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Speaker 3: down markedly because we've reduced some of the regulations around

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Speaker 3: oil extraction and exploration. We're bringing more oil to market

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Speaker 3: that's lowering prices. This moves in the opposite direction. This

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Speaker 3: is regulating credit cards to a point where you're talking

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Speaker 3: about ten percent cap on interest rates. Right now, if

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Speaker 3: you go out to buy a used car, the average

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Speaker 3: interest rate is twelve percent, and that's for a secured loan,

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Speaker 3: meaning that if you default on your credit on your payments,

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Speaker 3: then the bank can take that car back. With credit cards,

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Speaker 3: it's unsecured debt, which is why we face higher interest

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Speaker 3: rates because the bank can't take back your trip from

434
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 3: the Disney World last year. That's gone. So that's why

435
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 3: we have higher interest rates there. If you start to

436
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 3: cap credit card interest rates, all that's going to happen

437
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 3: is that working class Americans are going to take it

438
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 3: on the and they're going to see their credit cards

439
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 3: completely disappear. They're not going to have access to credit,

440
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 3: or they're going to see higher annual fees, stricter lending limitations,

441
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 3: the points and milds disappear. It's going to be really

442
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 3: really hard, especially time when you know a lot of

443
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 3: people are struggling. They need to have that extra access

444
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 3: to credit sometimes to float those unexpected events when their

445
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 3: h VAC unit breaks or they have an unexpected car

446
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 3: repair or whatever. They need access to that credit more

447
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 3: than ever. So I think this would be a really

448
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 3: really harmful idea.

449
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: I get see this is this is what it comes

450
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: down to for me, Brandon, is this issue of again

451
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: there's the ideological or intellectual or philosophical consistency that's that's

452
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: at work here. You know, it's one of those things

453
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: where we decried what the what the Biden administration of

454
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: the Obama administration did on the student loans side of things, right,

455
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: and recognizing that student loans are similar to credit card

456
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: credit because they're unsecured loans, as you point out, and

457
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: so you know, to me, if we're being consistent, we

458
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: have to be concerned about this. It's the same thing

459
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,959
Speaker 1: with the folks who are proposing that we do a

460
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: tariff rebate for Americans. A. It assumes that the tariffs

461
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: have driven up prices. But this is a one off

462
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: to me on the idea of you know, the Democrats

463
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 1: when they want to raise the cost of electricity for

464
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: people by engaging in all kinds of risky schemes saying well, well,

465
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: for poor Americans, we'll give them a rebate on it.

466
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: We'll give them something on the back end. It's only

467
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 1: rich people who are going to have to do this.

468
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: I mean, am I right or wrong in this this

469
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 1: kind of tinkering. We have to be consistent, don't we.

470
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think we're better off just keeping

471
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 3: the government out of these kinds of decisions, because you know,

472
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 3: once they start to decide, oh this this group gets

473
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 3: this amount of money, this group's gets that amount of money,

474
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: Inevitably they're going to make poor decisions. We see that

475
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 3: time and time again. So providing rebates, whether those are

476
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 3: ter freebates or in the green energy space where they

477
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 3: pick and choose winners. Oh, we want to see solar

478
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 3: and win succeed. But we no longer like more stable

479
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 3: and reliable forms of energy like natural gas for instance.

480
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 3: At nuclear you know that just ends up hurting consumers

481
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, hurting working class Americans

482
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 3: more than anyone who can least afford those types of

483
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 3: shocks and to often, more often than not be left

484
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 3: out in the cold, because guess what, working class Americans

485
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 3: don't really have lobbyists in Washington the way that rightial

486
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 3: interest groups do. So when you're not at the table,

487
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 3: you're on the menu, and working glass Americans are usually

488
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 3: on the menu in these decision making processes.

489
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 1: And I know you're not a lobbying organization, but certainly

490
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: that's what the National Taxpayers Union is all about, isn't

491
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: a Brandon?

492
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, that is exactly why we're around to provide

493
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 3: that voice. But as hard as we work and as

494
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 3: great a team as I have, there are a lot

495
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 3: of people driving very expensive cars, living in very nice

496
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 3: houses that are doing doing quite well by their their

497
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 3: special interest groups in Washington, and we're doing everything we

498
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 3: kind to compete with them, but it's it's always an

499
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 3: uphill battle.

500
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 4: Of course.

501
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: Hey, before I let you go, I don't know if

502
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: you're sure, are you tracking in all this neo temperance

503
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: movement and the I the idea that the government was

504
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: going to change the what the safe serving of alcohol

505
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: was going to be folks. Brandon is very interested in

506
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: the craft beer issue and regular and regulations that sort

507
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: of stand in the way of folks who are engaged

508
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: in the artisanal side or the entrepreneurial side of I'm

509
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: going to say at the booze industry, and I don't

510
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: mean that in a bad way, you know, but were

511
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: you were you tracking this at all? This the possibility

512
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: that the that the USDA and the HHS were going

513
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: to come out and say that there was no safe

514
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: serving of alcohol.

515
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 7: I did hear that.

516
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 3: I haven't been tracking as closely as I'd like, But

517
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 3: you know, I'm always skeptical of the USDA telling us

518
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 3: what to eat and drink. I think as adults we

519
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 3: should be able to make adult decisions. Obviously, moderation is very, very,

520
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 3: very important when you're talking about a substance like alcohol.

521
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 3: But I think most of us, the vast majority of Americans,

522
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 3: are responsible enough to make responsible decisions to not drink

523
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 3: and drive, not abuse alcohol, and so forth, and the

524
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 3: government should mostly stay out of our business. And let

525
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 3: us be grown ups here here.

526
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: And you know something, Tony, who I'm filling in for,

527
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: he does his Eat, Drink, Smoke podcast and radio show,

528
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: so I know he agrees with me as well. Brandon,

529
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 1: it's been too long since we chatted. We got to

530
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: do this again soon. How do folks find out more

531
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: about the work that you're doing and the work of

532
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: end to you?

533
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, National Taxpayers Union NTOU dot org. We're certainly all

534
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: over social media. Find us on x, Facebook, you name it,

535
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 3: and we would love to hear from your listeners. Love

536
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 3: to hear your feedback and everything on the work that

537
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 3: we're doing, and it is always a great pleasure. Andrew,

538
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: I do appreciate your time.

539
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: Take care, Brandon. Listen. That was Brandon Arnold. Into you

540
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: dot org is the website. Go and check that out. Listen.

541
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: Let me come back. We start talking about foreign policy

542
00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: again and something that Scott Besson said today, you know,

543
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: which gets to the heart of how messed up though

544
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: I almost used a curse word, they're landed, how messed

545
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: up the global stages. I'm Andrew Langer. This is Tony

546
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: Kats today. Welcome back, everybody. I am Andrew Langer. In

547
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: for Tony Katz today, So glad I can join you

548
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: and you can join me. We got to be consistent, guys.

549
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: I mean, there's it's it's just that simple. And I

550
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: know there are some folks who are out there who

551
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: are saying, well, you know something, the Democrats have no

552
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: problems having double standards of being hypocritical, and if they

553
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: are going to go beyond themselves to deal with this stuff,

554
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: we ought to do it as well. We do it

555
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: first time. I don't. I don't go in for that.

556
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, all we can be

557
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: is true to our principles. And if what we believe

558
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: principally is right and it's borne out by reality, most importantly,

559
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: all the more reasons stick to it. So I got

560
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: a real hard time. Listen. I can make the case,

561
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: and I have made the case as to why a

562
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: tariffs are sometimes useful and why they may not be

563
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: the end all be all, why it was not going

564
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: to cause the economic apocalypse. Right. I can make that case,

565
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: and I could do so in a way that's not

566
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: intellectually or ideologically inconsistent to what we believe. On the

567
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: other hand, when we are talking about fundamentally tinkering with marketplaces.

568
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: I got a real problem with that. Yeah, here's a

569
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: funny thing. So you know, we'll talk about talk about

570
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: credit cards again in a second. But we know that

571
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical industry is very near and dear to a

572
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: lot of folks within the direct home station of the

573
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: Tony Katz network right in Indianapolis, whether it's Lily or

574
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: Novartis or whatever, lots of folks who are engaged in

575
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: research and development of pharmaceuticals. And we know what happens

576
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: if federal policies start to interfere with the intellectual property

577
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: that underpins the research that is being done to make

578
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: these scientific medical advancements. We know what happens there. Therefore,

579
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: we should be guarding against it. If you know, we

580
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: certainly regarding against it when Joe Biden was trying to

581
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: go down that road, whether it was direct price controls

582
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: or whether it was monkeying around with the intellectual property

583
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: underpinning I'm sure we've ever had this conversation. Here, take

584
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: a step back for a second and give you give

585
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: you a little learning on this. Back in the nineteen

586
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 1: eighties early nineteen eighties, America was losing the innovation battle,

587
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: and Evan By Democratic senator from Indiana and Bob Dole

588
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: got together. They both realized that one of the problems

589
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: was that if federal research money was is used at

590
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: any point in the research process, usually as seed capital,

591
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: then somebody could not patent their discovery and reap the

592
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: benefits of that patenting. So the two of them got

593
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: together and they passed the Bidole Act, which says that

594
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: if you take a certain degree of federal funding as

595
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,719
Speaker 1: seed capital for your research, well you can still patent.

596
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: And there was an explosion in the figurative sense in

597
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: terms of innovation in America. And so you know, when

598
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: the Biden administration was trying to undo by Dole in

599
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: the name of trying to bring down prescription drug prices

600
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: by essentially threatening to march in and seize the patents

601
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: of drugs that they thought the prices were too high on, well,

602
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: as you can imagine, we pushed back against this. So

603
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: when you've got the Trump administration doing the same thing,

604
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: different but essentially threatening the innovation by going in and

605
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 1: setting price controls on prescription drug prices, that has an

606
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: effect on folks desires to innovate. So we push back

607
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: against it because we have to be consistent. Bernie Sanders,

608
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren and AOC they want to destroy the private

609
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: credit market in America. They want the government to take

610
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: it over for a lot of reasons, not the least

611
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: of what having to do with power. So they're the

612
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: folks who are behind this idea of detaching interest rates

613
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: from an assessment of risk. Credit card interest rates are

614
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: amongst the most democratically and I don't mean that, I

615
00:34:53,640 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: mean small d democratized investigations out there. They look at

616
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: your financial background and your experiences, and that determines the

617
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: interest rate that you're going to pay on what is

618
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: essentially an unsecured loan on like a home loan or

619
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: an auto loan, right where there's a tangible property behind it.

620
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 1: What happens, as Brandon Arnold points out, is that folks

621
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 1: will lose their credit cards, they will lose their access

622
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: to credit lines. If this goes through, folks will it's

623
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 1: not unbanked, uncredited, uncreditable. This is an AOC Bernie Sanders

624
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren way of doing things. It's bad policy and

625
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: they make for great politics. It's bad policy. We don't

626
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: want that and any case, next, how we're going to

627
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: be joined by Dan Runday. We're going to be talking

628
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: about foreign policy. I'm Andrew Langer in for Tony Katz today.

629
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: This is Tony kat Study in Na