1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Live from vall Hartbiner and the Crossroads of America. 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 2: It's Tony Katz today ask can you shall receive arrests 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 2: in the church invasion case? Tony Katz, Tony Kats today, 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 2: Good to be here, Good to be with you. Ed 5 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 2: Morrissey with the breaking news. You know him from hotair 6 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 2: dot com. The story is very clear Don Lemon, the 7 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 2: former CNN host, entering a church with a group of people. 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: They knew what they were there to do, disrupt the 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 2: church services, intimidate those people, screaming about ice and why 10 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: don't you care about Somali's and why don't you care 11 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 2: about your Latino's brothers and sisters, and claiming that you're 12 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: not real Christians. This was about intimidation and disruption because 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: as I see it, this is what the Marxist does. 14 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: But will leave that to the side. The question is 15 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: was this a violation of the Face Act or the 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: Ku Klux Klan Act with Don Lemon as somebody who 17 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 2: was responsible for this, or is he just simply a 18 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: journalist covering the story. I don't buy to that at all. 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: You then Ed break the story that the FBI has 20 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: now engaged arrests of these church raid leaders in Indianapolis. 21 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 2: Talk me through it, walk me through what happened here. 22 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: Well, what I assume happened is that they went to 23 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: a grand jury. They took these cases to a grand jury, 24 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: got an indictment. That's what I'm assuming is happening. You know, 25 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: the FBI can arrest people without a grand jury indictment, 26 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: but the fact that it took a few days for 27 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: them to do so, even while these people are going 28 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: on television and talking about how they violated the law. 29 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a CNN clip that I've gotten the 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: post there from last night or from yesterday, not last night, 31 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: but yesterday in which Armstrong, one of the two leaders 32 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: that were arrested today so far that we know so far, 33 00:01:55,640 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: have been arrested on tape talking about this and saying, 34 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: oh no, we didn't invade, we didn't interrupt services. And 35 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: Aaron Burnett of CNN says, well, I won't dispute that, 36 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: even though they're putting out video that shows exactly that's 37 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: what they did. Now, these people have basically published the 38 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: evidence for their own crimes, and the FBI has this, 39 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: and I'm sure that the Department of Justice went to 40 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: a grand jury to get an indictment to arrest these 41 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: people so that they're solid on solid ground. Because you remember, 42 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: Tony that there are a number of people saying, why 43 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: aren't there any arrests? Where's the FBI? Why haven't they 44 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: arrested these people for doing this? It's on video. 45 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: I was one of those people, and. 46 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: Our friend Kurt Schlichter, good friend of both of ours, 47 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: was saying, you guys need to realize, this is not 48 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: a law and order episode. There's a process for this. 49 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure that they've started the process for this. Well, 50 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: here we are four days later, which is pretty fast 51 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: when it comes to a federal case. They've got the 52 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: two leaders under arrest. Haven't heard anything about Lemon yet. 53 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: We don't know about Don Lemon yet. 54 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: Well, let me let me stop you. 55 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: Right, it's very possible he's going to be arrested as well, 56 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: because he's on tape talking about how he helped coordinate this. 57 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: Let me stop you right there. Hold on one second, 58 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: ed talking to Ed Marcia Hootair dot com, and I 59 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 2: would say it's Kirch Schlector, a trial lawyer, the retired 60 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 2: colonel that trusting this administration to engage a prosecution is 61 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,399 Speaker 2: not the business that I'm in. I don't think there's 62 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: anything wrong with saying, where that bloody hell are the arrests? 63 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 2: Where are the charges? And saying well, you got to 64 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: be patient and wait is an unacceptable answer from an 65 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 2: administration that has not brought about, in my view, enough 66 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: of these things. In cases where it is clear you 67 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: talk about the video evidence, there's also the written evidence 68 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: where these leaders one is named Nakima Levy Armstrong and 69 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: then there's Chanteu Luisa Allen. These were the people that 70 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: Pam Bondi, the Attorney General named. They quite literally thanked 71 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: all these different people on Facebook and other places for 72 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: being a part of what happened here. And as they 73 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: want to describe it, well, we were just in the 74 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: church going to services. Then we asked a question and 75 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 2: that's when the pastor came back at us, and that's 76 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: when we started saying, why aren't you helping these people? 77 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 2: And it went from there. They're claiming they did nothing wrong. 78 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 2: I argue the video evidence says absolutely the opposite. 79 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,799 Speaker 1: So there's two things here. There's probable cause and there's 80 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. You need probable cause for 81 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: the indictment in the arrest and the prosecution the video 82 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: evidence is that the best way to handle probable causes 83 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: to take it to a grand jury because it gives 84 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: you the most secure position for an indictment. And I 85 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 1: assume that that's what happened, is that they took it 86 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,799 Speaker 1: to a grand jury, maybe in Minneapolis, maybe someplace else, 87 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: got the indictment and issued the warrants. Again, they could 88 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: do it without an indictment, but I suspect that the 89 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: delay here was trying to get an indictment through the 90 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,119 Speaker 1: proper process so that it's bulletproof when you get into court. 91 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: The argument that you just gave from Armstrong and Allen 92 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: is going to be their defense on trial, and whether 93 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: or not a jury believes them that this was you know, 94 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: that they didn't do anything wrong. That's going to be 95 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: up to a jury. Jury might decide, yeah, they didn't 96 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: do anything wrong. Jury sometimes do that. You get nullification 97 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: in some cases, which again, you know, the jurisdiction for 98 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: this is going to be in Minnesota. I don't know 99 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: that they're going to hold it in headapin County, or 100 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: if they're going to look for some other venue. They 101 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: may change venues on this based on all of that 102 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,239 Speaker 1: else that's going on round there, I would hope so, actually, 103 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: but it's not easy to do either. So it's one thing. 104 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: It's it's something that they're going to have to probably 105 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: fight on. But but yeah, I mean the idea here 106 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: is you get them in, you indict them, you arrest them, 107 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: and then you give them their you give them a 108 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: fair trial. So they can make those arguments. But that's 109 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: not an argument against the rest. That's not an argument 110 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: against indictment. That's an argument once you get into the 111 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: courtroom and you are trying to avoid prison time. And 112 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: bear in mind that this is a lot less To me, 113 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: this is a lot worse violation than the Face Act 114 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: prosecutions that were conducted under Merrit Garland in the Joe 115 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: Biden regency, as I like to call it. I mean, 116 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: they arrested Mark Hauck for a shove on a sidewalk 117 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: outside of an abortion clinic with an armed raid by 118 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: FBI agents at dawn, and then put him through a 119 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: trial this stretched on for months and a jury acquitted 120 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: him because they didn't see as a Face Act violation. 121 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: So this is again, this is the process and that 122 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 1: wasn't even into abortion clinic that was outside of an 123 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: abortion clinic. And the Face Act, by the way, protects 124 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: both abortion clinics and churches. It was written specifically to 125 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: protect both. And this is going to be and the 126 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: ku Klux Klan Act. I'm a little less clear, but 127 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: apparently it also crosses those lines. There's also conspiracy, which 128 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: means that you had people conspiring to commit a felony 129 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: or a felonious act, which sometimes the conspiracy part is 130 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: worse than the act itself, and that's where you'll start 131 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: to see other people being brought in as conspirators. Possibly 132 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: Don Lemon would fall into that category, though as far 133 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: as I know, he hasn't been arrested. 134 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: You talk about conspirators, wait until you find out someone 135 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: talk to somebody else in another state and we start 136 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: talking about rico, because this is a whole gambit going 137 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: around to be able to try and intimidate and influence 138 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: elections and influence dollars and a whole bunch of other things. 139 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 2: Talking to Ed marscy off hodair dot Com, I want 140 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 2: to be clear that I am not coming to you 141 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: from a legal angle. I appreciate that you are engaging 142 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 2: the reporting here. I am not asking what the result 143 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: of a case is going to be. I want to 144 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: know where the prosecutions are. That was how I started 145 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 2: the result of a case as well how a case 146 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 2: is prosecuted. OJ did it, but he was found not guilty, 147 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 2: and I think that's the entirety of the point here. 148 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: But to your argument of conspiracy and some of these 149 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: other things, the Face Act and the KKK Act, Let's 150 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 2: talk a little bit about the Face Act and how 151 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: this comes to be. It's nineteen ninety four, signed into 152 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: law by William Jefferson. Hey did I get that on 153 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: your dress? Clinton? And his what? I'm sorry? I thought 154 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: that was his name. It was right there. I was 155 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 2: on the que card. I apologize, slick, will you? Well, well, 156 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 2: now you're just being gross me. This was about, obstensibly 157 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: abortion clinics, and I want you to dig into Merrick 158 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: Garland what he did with these abortion clinics, because I 159 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 2: don't think people understand the amount Christians were absolutely targeted 160 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: and abused for utilizing their First Amendment rights. But the 161 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: Face Act does protect churches and does protect parishioners. Walk 162 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 2: me through it and then get into what happened with 163 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 2: Merrick Garland, the former Attorney General jo Joe Biden, and 164 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 2: abortion clinics. 165 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: Well, the Face Act was promoted because there had been 166 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: in the eighties some violent attacks on abortion clinics, right, 167 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: and they wanted to escalate this into federal crimes. At 168 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: the same time, though, they also there was also violence 169 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: in churches and that sort of thing and people. This 170 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: was a compromise in Congress to marry the two things 171 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: together into the Face Act, So it was protecting basically 172 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: both sides, right, So it got buy in from both 173 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: parties on that basis, and so that's the reason why 174 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: it exists in its form. It's the reason why Bill 175 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: Clinton signed it into law. Unfortunately, violence at abortion clinics 176 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: dropped off, had really kind of dropped off by that 177 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: point anyway. But again, they wanted to emphasize that the 178 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: federal government was going to be involved in this. Now 179 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: we can quibble over this because while there is no 180 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: First Amendment right to an abortion, there certainly is a 181 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: First Amendment right to freedom of religious religious expression, and 182 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: that especially applies to places of worship. So there is 183 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: really a federal interest more in the church's angle than 184 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,719 Speaker 1: there is in the abortion clinic angle, but it does 185 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: apply to both. And what it means is that you 186 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: can't go into these places to interrupt, you know, either 187 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: abortion operations or religious services, regardless of whatever your demonstration is. Now, 188 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: just to make this clear, had Armstrong and Allen and 189 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: Lemon just stayed on the sidewalk, held signs, march back 190 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: and forth, chanting their chants and singing their songs, it 191 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: would have been perfectly fine. 192 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: We've thought that with roast. Maybe you could have thought 193 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: them disgusting for doing so, but legally, to your points, absolutely, 194 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: they would have been within their rights. 195 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: Absolutely legal. And I love peaceful legal demonstrations because I 196 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: think peaceful legal administrations are a fantastic aspect of American politics. 197 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean I have to agree with them, but 198 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 1: as long as they're peaceful and legal, it's not a problem. 199 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: The problem is is that this was not peaceful, and 200 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: it violated the First Amendment rights of people in that 201 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: church to conduct religious ceremonies and intimidate them. They're intimidating 202 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: them into stopping this, stopping this religious warship. So this 203 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: is the consequence of doing that. That's in the Face Act. 204 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: That is a federal crime. It is not a First 205 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: Amendment expression of speech to interrupt somebody else's church services 206 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: and take them over and intimidate the parishioners that are 207 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: in there. So this is absolutely a federal crime. It's 208 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: absolutely a federal government's interest to enforce it. And you know, 209 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: within four days, it's pretty good. I think it sends 210 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: a pretty strong signal that they that this type of 211 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: thing is going to be prosecuted in the future. I 212 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: actually think that when a couple of weeks from now, 213 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: we're going to look back at the at the alacrity 214 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: exhibited by the Department of Justice in this case and 215 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: see that as a pretty strong disincentive to this sort 216 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: of thing in the future. 217 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 2: Talking to Ed Marssey off hot air dot Com, I 218 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 2: think we're going to say it's it's about time within 219 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 2: all of this. Over the last few days since Don 220 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: Lemon and this group invaded this church, from my words, 221 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 2: I'll use it that way, the Left has been either 222 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 2: silent or supportive somehow what they did isn't a problem. 223 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 2: What they did isn't an issue. You have this one guy, 224 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 2: we're wearing a beanie that says blank Trump on it. Screaming, 225 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 2: you call yourself Christians? The pastors in a suit? Did 226 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 2: Jesus wear a suit? And I don't know. I wasn't there, 227 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 2: so I'm not sure if he was wearing HARMANI or 228 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 2: hartshafter Marx, I don't I don't know if he cleaned 229 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 2: his toga. I don't have the answers. I hear there 230 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 2: was a shroud and that made him look very, very good. 231 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: The larger scale subject here is that they have not condemned. 232 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 2: It seems the only condemnation you can get these days 233 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 2: is from Senator John Fetterman, who has turned out to 234 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: be the voice of reason on the Democratic side. Oh 235 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 2: is he going to get primaried out of existence in 236 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: a couple of years by the Democrats, none of them 237 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 2: in a joint statement saying we disagree with Ice, but 238 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 2: this is too far. How yeah, your thoughts on where 239 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: that comes from and where that leads to, Well. 240 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: I think it comes from the fact that the politics 241 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: around this have been radicalized to a large extent. And 242 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,239 Speaker 1: you know, from people who've been on the ground in Minneapolis, 243 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: they talk about how these are not masses of thousands 244 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: of people. There's a couple of hundred people that show 245 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: up to these things. But they're all very radical, and 246 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: they're organized, and they're trying to create these types of things, 247 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: and so of course they're not going to not going 248 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: to pooh poo it, you know, after well that was 249 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: maybe that was a little too far, that's that's not 250 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: where they're at. I think that there's a lot of 251 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: people who really don't like ice and don't like what 252 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: they're doing, who would still take a look at that, 253 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 1: even in Minnesota. Even in Minneapolis, let's take a look 254 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: at what happened in that church and say that's just 255 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: flat out wrong. It should never have happened and and 256 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: it should be dealt with forthwith. But you're not going 257 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: to get that from the organized protest out there, because 258 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: they're radicals. These are the radicals who are who resent 259 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: religion anyway. I mean those remarks, and this is the thing, 260 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: and this is the reason why if you're in this 261 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: sort of situation you shut up and let your attorney 262 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: talk is because that type of talk shows that you 263 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: had a hostile intent when you went into that church. 264 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: That person is probably going to be among the ones 265 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: that are arrested that I know which one you're talking 266 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: about he was out there saying, I think it was yesterday, 267 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: Come and arrest me, come and get me, come and 268 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: kill me. You can you can kill the you can 269 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: kill the revolutionary, but you can't kill the revolution same guy, 270 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: And that type of that type of commentary afterwards is 271 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: admissible in court and goes to show hostility towards the 272 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: towards the First Amendment expression of of you know, a 273 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: faith that was taking place in this church. It goes 274 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: to motive and the prosecutors and there are going to 275 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: really lean on that type of thing to show that 276 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: this was not just a demonstration that the intent was 277 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: to it was to prevent these people from exercising their 278 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: First Amendment rights in their own church. And so yeah, 279 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: that's the reason why. Maybe that's also the reason why 280 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: they waited a couple of days to really get this going, 281 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: because they figured these people were going to go out 282 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: and and build their case for them over the next 283 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: couple of days. That may have been strategic. 284 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 2: I've got more with Ed Marcy coming right up. Keep 285 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: it here. I'm Tony Katz and this is Tony Katz Today. 286 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: Find everything at Tony kats dot com. So we've got 287 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 2: arrests that have taken place because of the church invasion. 288 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: Do I get to see cuffs on Don Lemon? Oh? 289 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 2: One can dream, Tony Katz Tony Kats today. Good to 290 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 2: be with you. Ed Marssey joins me right now from 291 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 2: hot air dot com, where he is the coppo, the 292 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 2: two D coppo over there, Ed Marscy on the Twitter 293 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 2: X two ours two U s is. Be sure to 294 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: check it out as we're discussing Pambondi making moves and 295 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 2: in my view about time arrests made of the two 296 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 2: leaders of the groups involved in the church invasion in 297 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 2: Saint Paul, Minnesota, harassing church goers, intimidating church goers. Some 298 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 2: ark you terrorizing churchgoers, and I'll use the wording of 299 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: the left here. I think that's all absolutely okay. When 300 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: you're screaming and children are crying, you're terrorizing people. That's 301 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 2: what this group did. And in that group was Don Lemon. 302 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: Don Lemon, the former CNN host who put out a 303 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: video and you have it in the article, Ed, You've 304 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 2: got it as clear as day. You actually show where 305 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 2: the video is of Don Lemon right there. Uh he is, 306 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 2: uh you know, talking about Hey, I'm out here and 307 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 2: and and the and the crowds out here and and uh, 308 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: they're going to Minneapolis. 309 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 3: I got a little bit of go and did some 310 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 3: some reconnaissance on the ground and speaking to an organization 311 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 3: there that's gearing up too for resistance and protests. I've 312 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 3: been surprised, pleasantly surprised to see the community coming together. 313 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 2: In the Verse community. If you see this. 314 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 3: When we first pulled up, we're like, wait a minute, 315 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 3: what is which? Which operation are we at? And as 316 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 3: it turns out, because we were like, well, this is 317 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 3: kind of maga coated, right, so the American flag or whatever, 318 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 3: but these. 319 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,959 Speaker 2: An American flag is is maga coated, uh ed Marsci. 320 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 2: But he's wearing a hat that says Lemon. He's got 321 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,440 Speaker 2: his uh microphone which is DL for Don Lemon. He's 322 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: going to pretend that it wasn't him, it was my 323 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 2: evil twins Skippy. He knew this was happening. And he 324 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 2: then went on to say, listen, I was just a 325 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 2: journalist covering this story. And we've already heard from William 326 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 2: Jacobson of Legal insurrection dot com. You know, there were 327 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 2: people associated with January sixth who said we were just 328 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: recording what was happening. We were an independent journalists. It 329 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 2: didn't work for them. Talk to me about Don Lemon's 330 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 2: take here. 331 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 1: Well, there's also another video of Don Lemon that I 332 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: don't think I have in the in the post, but 333 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: we've had it at hot Air where he's talking about 334 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: how seeing children, you know, leaving the church in tears, 335 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: and that's part of the process, right, that's you have 336 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: to have that sort of impact when you're protesting. So 337 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: I mean he's saying that after the fact, so I 338 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: don't necessarily know that they prosecutors can use that promotive. 339 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,479 Speaker 1: And again I'm this is speculative because as far as 340 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: I know, Don Lemon hasn't been charged or arrested yet. 341 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: But the fact that he was in the church with them, 342 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: he went in with them and started peppering the pastor 343 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: with questions in the middle of all of this, does 344 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: not speak very well to being simply a journalist. This 345 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: is somebody who was part of the harassment that was 346 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: taking place, arguably at least and again, I think in 347 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: the case of Don Lemon especially, you'd want to take 348 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: that to a grand jury before you issued an indictment, 349 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: or for you issue to arrest warrant, you'd want the 350 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: indictment in hand, just to show that you've checked all 351 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 1: the boxes before you arrest somebody who has been recognized 352 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: as a journalist in years past. But in this case, 353 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: he was clearly an activist. He was clearly part of 354 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: this whole project of invading this church. There's apparently evidence 355 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: that Armstrong, I think, has talked about where she was 356 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: coordinating this with Don Lemon. And again, this is one 357 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: of the reasons why you want to shut up about stuff. 358 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: Have your attorneys who you're talking for you in the 359 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: aftermath of things like this, and that type of thing 360 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: is going to it's going to be admissible in court, 361 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: and he's going to he's gonna have to lawyer up 362 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: no matter what he does, and he's gonna be lucky 363 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: if he's not charged in this. 364 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 2: And that's you know, when you listen to his smugness 365 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 2: in his quasi defense about how he's just a journalist 366 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 2: and you're only going after me because I'm a black 367 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: gay man, as if anybody cares whatsoever. I think this 368 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 2: becomes a conversation about clickbait. Hey, this is gonna get 369 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 2: me in the headlines. Hey, this is gonna get me 370 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 2: a lot of views here and then the the ever 371 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 2: popular No one's really going to come after me. I 372 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 2: can get away with these things? Is there is there 373 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 2: more of this to come? You know? Alensky talks about 374 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 2: a good tactic as well, Your people enjoy Is this 375 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 2: the tactic? Is Don Lemon doing this now an inspiration 376 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: to other progressives and people who are on the margins, 377 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,239 Speaker 2: like Jim Acossa and others to say this is this 378 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 2: is the way? No. 379 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: I think that the fact that people are getting arrested 380 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: for this is a pretty is a pretty strong disincentive 381 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: for this is the way now. The activists are one thing, 382 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: but when you got people like Jim Acosta and Don 383 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: Lemon who are at risk, then I think things start 384 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: to back off just a little bit. But yes, I 385 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: mean I think you're right. I think this is about clickbait. 386 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: It's about getting attention. That's kind of what this type 387 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 1: of I don't want to call it activism because there's 388 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 1: legitimate forms of activism. This is what this kind of 389 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: terrorism maybe a little too strong intimidation. This is what 390 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 1: these types of intimidation tactics are supposed to produce. It's 391 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: supposed to produce great feelings. You're you're feeling powerful, You're 392 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: you're you're interfering with the man and you know, and 393 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: f Trump and all of this, and that is going 394 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: to incentivize some people who aren't entirely rational or don't 395 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: really think things through very well, like Don Lemon, to 396 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: do things that are going to get them in a 397 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: great deal of trouble. And that's where that's where we're 398 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: at with this. This is and by the way, this 399 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: is where we're at with Renee Good. I'm not happy 400 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: that Renee Good was shot by ice, but she was 401 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: out there obstructing their operations. She didn't follow lawful commands 402 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: to step out of her car. Her wife told her 403 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: to drive away, and she hit an agent and that's 404 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: lethal force. It was all sorts of bad on just 405 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: it was a bad outcome of a bad situation. That's 406 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: what the risks are in these types of things. This 407 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: is sort of the extreme of the outcomes of it. 408 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: Nobody wants to see anybody get shot in circumstances like that. 409 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: It's terrible that somebody did, But this is what happens 410 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: when you play with fire, is you get burned. Eventually, 411 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: and that's what happened with Renee Good, and that's what's 412 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: going to happen the next time somebody tries to interfere 413 00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: with ice and uses lethal force, either against the the 414 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: officers in the field or in order to escape them. 415 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: It's I think this is why you don't do that 416 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: sort of We're on two different subjects though. 417 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 2: There's the one subject of whether or not people rational 418 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 2: people who may not like what I just doing, would 419 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 2: get involved in how this may keep them away. No, 420 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 2: that's just too much. But Don Lemon is taking a 421 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 2: look at clicks and hits and interviews, like, all right, 422 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 2: I'm back on the front pages. Everyone realizes how important 423 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 2: I am, and that's a crazy aphrodisiac. And then you 424 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 2: have the other people like that guy screaming you can 425 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 2: kill me, you can kill the revolutionary, but you can't 426 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 2: kill the revolution The word state that they don't see 427 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 2: this as a disagreement. They are discussing a total dismantling 428 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 2: of the nation written large. They are absolutely, at least 429 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 2: in their words, willing to die. And when I take 430 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 2: a look at them going into a church and engaging 431 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 2: the intimidation, I do believe you can use the word terrorizing. 432 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 2: I think that that puts you moments away from them 433 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 2: lighting bibles on fire. Now, yeah, you won't see anybody 434 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 2: walk into a mosque with forty people saying, how come 435 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 2: you're not upset with Somali's that were involved in fraud 436 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 2: of the American people? Why aren't you out there supporting 437 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 2: the American people as opposed to this fraud that's never 438 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 2: going to come? Which is another part of this story. 439 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 2: But I do think that we are in this place 440 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 2: where we don't see the disincentive rather the true believer 441 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 2: who has been told that the whole nation is going 442 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 2: to be destroyed if we don't get rid of Trump, 443 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 2: get rid of I stop Republicans, keep them from winning 444 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 2: by any and every means possible. I think it's just 445 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 2: to lead to more and greater violent acts. 446 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: It is, it is, This is what happens when when 447 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: you adopt a resistance mentality instead of an opposition mentality. Right, 448 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: I mean, when you're in a constitutional republic, you know, 449 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: based on democratic you know processes, when you lose an election, 450 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: you're in the opposition, right, you know, there's there's responsibilities 451 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 1: for being in the opposition. You highlight all the things 452 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: that are going wrong. You try to you try to 453 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 1: engage as much as possible to get what you can. 454 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: That's that's the traditional republican democratic republic in the non 455 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 1: communist sense, right, because democratic republic is you know what 456 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: some communist states call themselves. That's a traditional role in 457 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: a in a constitutional republic. Of people who lose elections, 458 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: they go into the opposition. They propose alternates, alternatives for policies, 459 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: They try to get compromises so they can get some 460 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: of their objectives pushed through until the next election. The 461 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: people who are involved in this are not opposition, they 462 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: are resistance, and so they're they're framing this is that 463 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: they have to obstruct literally everything that's going on. They 464 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: want to create this kind of chaos in order to 465 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: provoke the larger revolution. Yeah, and you're right, some of 466 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: these doesn't send won't even touch those impulses. What it 467 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: will do, though, is it will limit the recruitment for 468 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: that type of for that type of approach. I guess 469 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: you can say it brings me. It will It will 470 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: eventually force people to to think about things rationally, and 471 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: the people who are rational will respond to those incentives, 472 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: which and I'm hoping that the people who are in 473 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: irrational are very few in number. 474 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 2: To the mid realms. It brings me to the midterms. 475 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 2: Talking to Ed Morrissey of hotair dot com. Does any 476 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 2: of this any of what we have seen, the the 477 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 2: slander of ICE agents, the politicos saying we should defund 478 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 2: Ice and you people are are are terrorists and and 479 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 2: and you're unworthy and you're good to the the Gestapo, 480 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 2: uh and uh, the hitting of them with cars, the 481 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 2: ramming of cars, what happened with Renee Good watching what 482 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 2: has happened regarding this church invasion. Is there an effect 483 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 2: on the voter for the midterms, which I would normally 484 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 2: call an economic election where the opportunity for gaining seats 485 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 2: goes with the opposition party as opposed to the party 486 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 2: in power. The data shows that in the House, mostly 487 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 2: in the House more often than not in the Senate. 488 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 2: Does this have an effect in your view? 489 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it does. And I've been talking about 490 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: this with people, and I've written about it a couple times, 491 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: and people get a little irritated by this. But the 492 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 1: problem is is that it's chaos, and chaos always redounds 493 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: against the party in power. Voters expect things to be 494 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: handled with a minimum amount of chaos, and the chaos 495 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: agents kind of count on this too, by the way, 496 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: and this is what happened in twenty twenty, is that 497 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: you had all sorts of chaos breaking out, first with 498 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: the pandemic, then with the riots, and Republicans ended up 499 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: narrowly losing that election. That's what they're trying to set 500 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: up for the midterms too, is this chaos, and to 501 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: a certain extent, it is being activated through very aggressive 502 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: tactics by Immigrations and Customers Enforcement, right which I completely 503 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: support the mission. I understand that they're arresting people who 504 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: are very bad and there's only certain ways that you 505 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: can do this. They're trying to explain how they're going 506 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: through the process, and that's all good. It's a very 507 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: difficult situation here, though, because when it creates chaos, people 508 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: look at that and say, well, I support the policy, 509 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: but I don't necessarily want to see these outcomes as 510 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: a result of that, and people will look at the 511 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: chaos and blame the party in power for it. So, yes, 512 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,239 Speaker 1: I think that there is a risk in the mid 513 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: terms with this, and I don't think that risk actually 514 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: existed until two or three weeks ago. Just remember this 515 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: is all just over the last two or three. 516 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 2: Well, you see the risks for the Republicans and not 517 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 2: the Democrats. 518 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: Yes, because the Democrats aren't in charge. Republicans are in charge, 519 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: so they sort of own the chaos that gets created. 520 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: People are going to look at this and say, what 521 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: was the what was the initiating factor, what was the 522 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: catalyst for the chaos? And if they conclude that it 523 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: was Ice enforcing immigration laws in the way that ICE 524 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: is doing, then yes, I think there's a risk for 525 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: Republicans in the midterms that this is the isn't the 526 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: answer to that? 527 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 2: Reactive isn't the answer? Put down the chaos and this 528 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 2: nonsense federalizing that that's. 529 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: What they're trying to get it done. Well, then then 530 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: you're really setting fire to Then you're really setting fire 531 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: to the chaos narrative because if you send in, if 532 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,479 Speaker 1: you if you invote the Insurrection Act, which I guarantee 533 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: you Trump would be inclined to do otherwise, then you're 534 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:50,719 Speaker 1: really creating a crisis. And again, crisis is chaos, and 535 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: voters are not going to respond well to that. It's 536 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: I'm just saying that this is the type of thing 537 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: today you probably want to get a hold of and 538 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: and dial down as fast as you can do it 539 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: while still maintaining the mission. 540 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 2: I do not know. 541 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: Tricky, and it's going to be tricky. 542 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 2: I don't know if you're wrong, but saying that they 543 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 2: can engage in writing and the political right suffers the 544 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 2: consequences of it, that is, that's a messed up thought 545 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 2: and one that's going to keep some people up at night. 546 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 2: Ed Morrissey hotair dot com. Check out his latest over 547 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 2: there on the arrests in the church invasion. I appreciate 548 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 2: you ed very much more to get to I'm Tony 549 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 2: Katz and this is Tony Kats Today.