1
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:10,360
Speaker 1: Live from val Hartland and the Crossroads of America.

2
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,960
Speaker 2: It's Tony Katz today. I don't think it's.

3
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,919
Speaker 3: Possible to discuss the situation in Iran, in the situation

4
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,040
Speaker 3: in Venezuela without discussing China and the connection points between.

5
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,040
Speaker 3: And one has to wonder whether or not this was

6
00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,360
Speaker 3: the geopolitical strategy from the Trump administration the whole time.

7
00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,880
Speaker 3: If you already see Iran on the ropes, if you

8
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,839
Speaker 3: could already capture Maduro and change how oil flows out

9
00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,160
Speaker 3: of Venezuela, therefore change the entire game. You're changing how

10
00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,559
Speaker 3: oil flows out of Iran, changing the entire game.

11
00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,680
Speaker 2: Who does the game change for? Well, certainly there's an

12
00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:44,880
Speaker 2: effect on China.

13
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,720
Speaker 3: There a very thirsty country that wants to grow and

14
00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,760
Speaker 3: already has its own issues. Tony Katz, Tony Katz today.

15
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,120
Speaker 3: Good to be here, Good to be with you. Steve

16
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,840
Speaker 3: Yates joins us right now. He's from the Heritage Foundation,

17
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 3: Senior Research Fellow for China and National Security Policies, from

18
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,959
Speaker 3: his days at AFPI, from the other work that he

19
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,919
Speaker 3: has done. We have had numerous conversations in the past,

20
00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,640
Speaker 3: but it's time to get deep, and I mean real deep.

21
00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,800
Speaker 3: On these subjects, and we have to start where we start,

22
00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,440
Speaker 3: and that's going to be in our hemisphere. With Venezuela.

23
00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,480
Speaker 3: You saw the President make this move, engauge, this capture,

24
00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,480
Speaker 3: this operation that took place where there's a question of

25
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 3: the level of hardware we use the level sophistication that

26
00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,080
Speaker 3: we have. The Venezuelans, accordions of first hand accounts, had

27
00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,000
Speaker 3: no idea what was coming.

28
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,639
Speaker 2: I had no way of countering. But we still have Delsea.

29
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,160
Speaker 3: Rodriguez is number two in place, so you can argue

30
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,280
Speaker 3: that the Maduro regime is still in place. So let's

31
00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,840
Speaker 3: start where we start in the Venezuela operation.

32
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,080
Speaker 2: Was this regime change.

33
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,520
Speaker 4: Well, Tony, I see it as moving in that direction.

34
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,760
Speaker 4: But while President Trump sometimes gets labeled by people, mostly

35
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 4: who don't like him, as acting in rash ways that

36
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,360
Speaker 4: don't really have a strategic plan at least if you're

37
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,640
Speaker 4: looking at this Venezuela exercise, there's a lot more to

38
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,800
Speaker 4: it than just the flash bang of that extraction, which

39
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,720
Speaker 4: was amazing in any number of ways. The speed, the

40
00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,200
Speaker 4: lack of fatalities on our part being able to go

41
00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,040
Speaker 4: in and do that, the number of Cubans who were

42
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,400
Speaker 4: sent home to their little mini Honor Guard a few

43
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,880
Speaker 4: days ago. There's a whole host of things that were

44
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,799
Speaker 4: truly amazing about that. But it doesn't happen like that

45
00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,000
Speaker 4: without the armada that had been put in place hitting

46
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,840
Speaker 4: some of those drug boats, showing a willingness to act

47
00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 4: on the high seas and hit some of these shipments,

48
00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,120
Speaker 4: making the international community more aware of what these ghost

49
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,480
Speaker 4: fleets are. And as you rightly point to, there is

50
00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,359
Speaker 4: an international nexus that has been operating out of Venezuela

51
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,160
Speaker 4: and through these ghost fleets that involves China, Russia, Iran,

52
00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 4: a number of other actors, and that very much was

53
00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,560
Speaker 4: front and center. So this is not an Venezuela only

54
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 4: kind of move. And I myself know whether it is

55
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,160
Speaker 4: all about China for President Trump and the team, but

56
00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,920
Speaker 4: they definitely are aware of the way this vibrates in

57
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,320
Speaker 4: other areas. China is the dominant funder for the Russia

58
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,240
Speaker 4: war machine. Oil markets are relevant to that calculation. China

59
00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,000
Speaker 4: gets a great deal of oil and other economic activity

60
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,480
Speaker 4: from Iran, and so both China and Iran have links

61
00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,320
Speaker 4: into Venezuela, and China is vulnerable to the Straits of

62
00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,320
Speaker 4: Malacca for the imports of oil that might try to

63
00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,960
Speaker 4: come in a time of crisis, and they saw diversifying

64
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,360
Speaker 4: to the Venezuelan and supply is important enough to consider

65
00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:47,960
Speaker 4: digging a second canal across Central America potentially, so very much.

66
00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,720
Speaker 4: China is linked very much. The administration is looking at

67
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,280
Speaker 4: the echo of these things. But as far as the

68
00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,800
Speaker 4: transition in Venezuela goes, I think that they didn't want

69
00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 4: to try to go too far, too fast. There's a

70
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,600
Speaker 4: lot of ghosts of Iraq and Afghanistan that are getting

71
00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,600
Speaker 4: sorted out, and so I see them as making this

72
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 4: gradual move. Ultimately that's going to have to go to

73
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,760
Speaker 4: an election where I do think the opposition should be

74
00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,560
Speaker 4: favored in a free and fair contest.

75
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,719
Speaker 3: Talking to Steve Yates the Heritage Foundation, where he works

76
00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:24,239
Speaker 3: on China and national security policy, you mentioned really quick

77
00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,800
Speaker 3: the ghost fleets, and it should be understood that we're

78
00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,720
Speaker 3: not talking about war fleets, We're not talking about battleships.

79
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,560
Speaker 3: We're talking about how oil that has been sanctioned by

80
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,640
Speaker 3: the United States so it can't be sold, is actually

81
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:41,760
Speaker 3: being purchased by our adversaries, by our enemies, Russia and China.

82
00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:43,400
Speaker 3: There was a nice write up about this in the

83
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal, I think it was last week, about

84
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,200
Speaker 3: how this works nine hundred some odd ships.

85
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,280
Speaker 2: To the extent that you can on this.

86
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,880
Speaker 3: Idea of these ghost fleets walk us through what it

87
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,560
Speaker 3: is that's happening and what it is you know.

88
00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,839
Speaker 4: Well, it's sort of like the classical definition of piracy.

89
00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,320
Speaker 4: You have ships that go out with a flag of

90
00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,720
Speaker 4: convenience that if or none at all, where they're not

91
00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:13,400
Speaker 4: accurately reflecting the country of ownership and registration they're they're

92
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:19,360
Speaker 4: they're doing this deliberately to avoid the national sovereign interests

93
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,479
Speaker 4: of others involved, so sanctions and otherwise. And so basically

94
00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,880
Speaker 4: we've known that Russia, China, Iran have collaborated the bust

95
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,720
Speaker 4: sanctions on any of them at any given time. And

96
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:37,279
Speaker 4: these fleets become relevant because they're moving this oil, which

97
00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,599
Speaker 4: is a fungible resource. Fancy way of saying, value in

98
00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,520
Speaker 4: that pot in your left pocket affects the value in

99
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:49,360
Speaker 4: your right pocket too, And so it's really been heart

100
00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,279
Speaker 4: and front center in terms of trying to get at

101
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:58,040
Speaker 4: real pressure on these hostile i think non status quo

102
00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,120
Speaker 4: regimes around the world world, and so they might be

103
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 4: moving the fuel from Venezuela to somewhere else. But they're

104
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,279
Speaker 4: going to have an impact on everything from hamas and

105
00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 4: terrorist organizations that are linked to Iran and others, and

106
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,400
Speaker 4: they'll have impacts in other areas too. But basically you're right,

107
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,279
Speaker 4: it's commercial vessels primarily operating in a gray zone. And

108
00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 4: this is one of the founding reasons we have a

109
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,240
Speaker 4: United States Navy is to deal with piracy.

110
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,240
Speaker 3: So we see that how China is connected to Venezuela

111
00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,840
Speaker 3: regarding oil. And certainly your point about the regime is

112
00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,919
Speaker 3: taken that something I may want.

113
00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,480
Speaker 2: To move faster might not be able to move faster.

114
00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,159
Speaker 3: It's that sometimes if you listen to President Trump, he

115
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,760
Speaker 3: hints that maybe there could be some acceptability to the

116
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,440
Speaker 3: status quo, and I temper that with my own words,

117
00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,159
Speaker 3: saying that what President Trump says versus what he does

118
00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:02,880
Speaker 3: are oft times two different things. Calling Delsa Rodriguez a

119
00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:04,880
Speaker 3: fine person or a terrific person, as he did the

120
00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,039
Speaker 3: other day from the oval, doesn't mean that she's going

121
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,480
Speaker 3: to have a long career. The what's the best way

122
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,760
Speaker 3: to say this, What was the message sent to the

123
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,680
Speaker 3: rest of the Western hemisphere?

124
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:18,840
Speaker 2: Really South America.

125
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,560
Speaker 3: What was the message sent to the globe regarding the

126
00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:23,760
Speaker 3: taking of Maduro.

127
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,640
Speaker 4: I think there were few that definitely come front and center.

128
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,200
Speaker 4: One is, at least to the countries that are essentially

129
00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,360
Speaker 4: run by cartels. This is a country that had a

130
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,800
Speaker 4: cartel boss running it, and it proved that if you

131
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,840
Speaker 4: have indictments related to injury suffered by the American people

132
00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,320
Speaker 4: in our own national interests, that your time is on

133
00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,560
Speaker 4: the clock. And the United States has proven willing and

134
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,239
Speaker 4: able to act decisively. And there's nothing that the Russian, Chinese,

135
00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,480
Speaker 4: and Iranian arms are going to be able to do

136
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,720
Speaker 4: to help you, and certainly Huban security forces are not

137
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,320
Speaker 4: going to be able to help you. And so I

138
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,560
Speaker 4: think there's at least some shade thrown in the direction

139
00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,600
Speaker 4: of Columbia, Mexico and a few others that you're going

140
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,920
Speaker 4: to have to take seriously that the United States is

141
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 4: going to operate against these cartels at some point, and

142
00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,320
Speaker 4: you might want to take seriously the idea of engaging

143
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:24,920
Speaker 4: in negotiations with the Trump administration of some kind of

144
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,640
Speaker 4: a deal before the deal is made for you. When

145
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,920
Speaker 4: you end up in New York going through O Maduro's

146
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,520
Speaker 4: going through and so there's at least that message. I

147
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:39,120
Speaker 4: think that the combination of the bombing of Iranian nuclear

148
00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 4: facilities completely undetected from this side of the world of

149
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 4: that side of the world, gave a pretty dramatic demonstration

150
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,480
Speaker 4: effect too. And you put that sort of the stealth

151
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:55,719
Speaker 4: activity in Iran, the Special Forces rapid immediate activity with Venezuela,

152
00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,600
Speaker 4: it just sends to the broader world the United States

153
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,520
Speaker 4: is going to allow these outside actors to act with

154
00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:07,520
Speaker 4: impunity in our hemisphere, and we do still have some power.

155
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,559
Speaker 4: We can't be huguistic about it. We're not going to

156
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,760
Speaker 4: be in the invade occupy in nation build phase. But

157
00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,840
Speaker 4: you better take American power and interest seriously, or at

158
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,679
Speaker 4: least under this current president will act.

159
00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 2: From time to time that American power, that American interest.

160
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,280
Speaker 3: Talking to Steve Vight to the Heritage Foundation, we're research

161
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,080
Speaker 3: fellow for China and National Security Policy. We've heard this

162
00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,079
Speaker 3: as a discussion of a remake, a rebirth, a rethink

163
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,280
Speaker 3: of the Monroe doctrine, which was President James Monroe and

164
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,319
Speaker 3: trying to thwart European influence in the Western hemisphere.

165
00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 2: Whether you call it the Trump doctrine.

166
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,160
Speaker 3: Now or, as he's joked about it, the donro A doctrine.

167
00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,280
Speaker 3: Now we're talking about Chinese and Russian influence, which is

168
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,280
Speaker 3: still Chinese influence. If we think that Russia's closer and

169
00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,600
Speaker 3: closer to becoming a vassal state of China in the

170
00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,040
Speaker 3: region and in the western hemisphere here, how does that

171
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,920
Speaker 3: get applied outside of the removal of Maduro?

172
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,120
Speaker 2: Does this mean that the leader of Columbia is next?

173
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,760
Speaker 3: Is this a we're going to force the Russian subs

174
00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,520
Speaker 3: to get off the coast of Cuba. No, you can't

175
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,680
Speaker 3: drill China. I don't care what some other nation gave

176
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,440
Speaker 3: you rights to do. The answer is no. How does

177
00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:23,520
Speaker 3: this progress?

178
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,720
Speaker 4: Well, I'll tell you what my hope is, what my

179
00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 4: assumption is about where the next steps might be. I

180
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:36,440
Speaker 4: think the administration very correctly as a reaction and a

181
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,120
Speaker 4: pendulum swing back in the direction of we need to

182
00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:45,000
Speaker 4: use the resources that the creator endowed us with for

183
00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 4: the benefit of our people, our economy, together with our

184
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,920
Speaker 4: allies and neighbors, if they are willing to play along

185
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,520
Speaker 4: by the right rules of the road. And so, if

186
00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,320
Speaker 4: you think of this, there's been a rightful focus on oil.

187
00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,640
Speaker 4: Oil is kind of still front and send. No matter

188
00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,680
Speaker 4: what the Green New Deal or Green New scam dreams

189
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,200
Speaker 4: might have been, oil still matters an awful lot. But

190
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,160
Speaker 4: there's also rare earths and other kinds of critical inputs.

191
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,320
Speaker 4: We need supply chains that are closer to our market

192
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,199
Speaker 4: that are not going to be leveraged buy our adversaries

193
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,719
Speaker 4: against us in a time of crisis. There's a lot

194
00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,040
Speaker 4: of raw materials to work with in this hemisphere. So

195
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,400
Speaker 4: I look all the way from Argentina up to the

196
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:30,120
Speaker 4: discussion of Greenland as being aimed at two things, keeping

197
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:34,880
Speaker 4: the outside competitors and adversaries out as much as possible,

198
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,640
Speaker 4: and opening that up to the United States and allies

199
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 4: to have a cleaner ecosystem that runs our economies free

200
00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,520
Speaker 4: from this malign leverage. I think that it's also sort

201
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,520
Speaker 4: of been mistakenly framed as putting this our country in

202
00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 4: this hemisphere first, to the exclusion of projection of power

203
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:58,480
Speaker 4: and opportunity in other areas. I'd argue that these adversaries

204
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,439
Speaker 4: haven't really respected us and our projection of power if

205
00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,920
Speaker 4: we left our country and our borders vulnerable to severe

206
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,679
Speaker 4: attack in our own hemisphere for their kind of playing

207
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:14,439
Speaker 4: around with impunity, and so buttoning these things down doesn't

208
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,280
Speaker 4: preclude rebalancing and projection of opportunity and power in these

209
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,680
Speaker 4: other theaters. I think it actually enhances our options into

210
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,280
Speaker 4: our allies, makes us a more trustworthy and resilient partner.

211
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,920
Speaker 3: Before we get into the conversation of Iran, which is

212
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:28,480
Speaker 3: the part too.

213
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,240
Speaker 2: Here. You brought up Greenland.

214
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,640
Speaker 3: No, I don't think we're taking Greenland by military force.

215
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,640
Speaker 3: I would oppose it on every single level. I think

216
00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,280
Speaker 3: as a concept it's ridiculous. I think the overreaction is massive,

217
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,480
Speaker 3: and I think that's purposeful from understanding Trump and how

218
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,920
Speaker 3: he likes to do things to try and get people

219
00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 3: to the table.

220
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:48,920
Speaker 2: We need Greenland that badly.

221
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,400
Speaker 4: Well, we definitely need to keep Russia and China out,

222
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,640
Speaker 4: and we need to keep them out before they have

223
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 4: more of a toe hold, and so I support any

224
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,880
Speaker 4: kind of preempt Shaka and Awe to get at that.

225
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,920
Speaker 4: I think the way the President has approached it has

226
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:12,600
Speaker 4: exposed the fecklessness of Europe, especially Denmark. It's incredibly stupid

227
00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:16,320
Speaker 4: really for them to say somehow it's offensive for America

228
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,920
Speaker 4: to say that they would take it. They freaking took

229
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,440
Speaker 4: it and so this is kind of just stupidity on

230
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,880
Speaker 4: steroids on their part. And then you're going to rally

231
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,160
Speaker 4: what military to do what, So you're going to talk

232
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,760
Speaker 4: about threatening the United States while you can't really reasonably

233
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,200
Speaker 4: threaten Russia on your own to defend Ukraine. So this

234
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:43,040
Speaker 4: is exposing hypocrisy, weakness on seriousness on many many levels.

235
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,000
Speaker 4: And I think that's part of the process, and we

236
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,960
Speaker 4: don't need to take it militarily. We can isolate where

237
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,600
Speaker 4: the populated areas on Greenland are and completely control the

238
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,600
Speaker 4: entire rest of that island and have access to what

239
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:57,680
Speaker 4: we need to keep the Chinese Russians out, and that's

240
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,640
Speaker 4: probably where this is going. So there's the Donald Trump

241
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,160
Speaker 4: way of saying, or you know, the Godfather way of saying,

242
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,079
Speaker 4: we can do this the easy way or the hard way.

243
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,880
Speaker 4: But I agree with you that ultimately this isn't about

244
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,520
Speaker 4: Team America going in and doing a Venezuela and Greenland,

245
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,160
Speaker 4: and I think this is really all about negotiations. But

246
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,520
Speaker 4: ultimately it comes down to we're they're on the North

247
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,400
Speaker 4: American shelf, They're not part of Europe economically in the

248
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 4: terms of security, that's where their future is and needs

249
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:28,440
Speaker 4: to be.

250
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,000
Speaker 3: I've got more with Steve Yates of the Heritage Foundation

251
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,080
Speaker 3: coming up. Find everything at Tony kats dot com and

252
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,200
Speaker 3: don't forget to check out the video of this interview.

253
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,320
Speaker 3: Just look for my YouTube channel, Tony Katz. Subscribe, do

254
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,440
Speaker 3: that this is Tony Katz Today. Really change in their

255
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,640
Speaker 3: tune in Minneapolis, We've got to fight Ice. Ice is

256
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,600
Speaker 3: the enemy and they're fascists and they're it's a Gestapo

257
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,840
Speaker 3: and we have to destroy them. And that has has

258
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 3: gone to why can't we all just get along?

259
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,200
Speaker 2: Man? Why ca we just love each other?

260
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,920
Speaker 3: What is going on with this messaging? Tony Katz, Tony

261
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 3: Katz Today, Good to be here, Good to be with you.

262
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,440
Speaker 3: This was Benjapiro on Gavin Newsom's podcast. And even the

263
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 3: governor of California, anybody else think it's weird that that

264
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,280
Speaker 3: these people have podcasts. The lieutenant governor of Indiana, my

265
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,640
Speaker 3: lieutenant governor has a podcast, and I'm I think he's

266
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,920
Speaker 3: done a very bad job of representing himself as an LG.

267
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:31,800
Speaker 2: But he's got a podcast.

268
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,360
Speaker 3: It's like, well, are you a lieutenant governor or are

269
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:35,200
Speaker 3: you an influencer?

270
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,920
Speaker 2: What are you trying to be? Here, Gavin Newsom, what

271
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,360
Speaker 2: is it you're trying to be here? But listen to this.

272
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,000
Speaker 5: Your press office tweeted out that it was state sponsored terrorism,

273
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,440
Speaker 5: which I mean, Governor, I.

274
00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,280
Speaker 2: Just have to ask you about that.

275
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,880
Speaker 5: That sort of thing makes our politics worse, and he does,

276
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,600
Speaker 5: and our ice officers obviously are not terrorists. A tragic

277
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:57,720
Speaker 5: situation is not state sponsored terrorism.

278
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,080
Speaker 2: I think that's fair. Yeah, I think that's fair. So

279
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,960
Speaker 2: you're walking back what it is your.

280
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,160
Speaker 3: Own press office put out and what the entire party

281
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:07,840
Speaker 3: believes to be true.

282
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,120
Speaker 2: Look at how they're acting, except that's not the entire party.

283
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,440
Speaker 3: When it was John Fetterman, you just were fine with

284
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 3: attacking John Fetterman.

285
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 2: Now you got Gavin Newsom walking it back.

286
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,400
Speaker 3: The mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Fray, is walking it back.

287
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,960
Speaker 2: The governor Tim Walls.

288
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:29,680
Speaker 3: The governor has gone from this is gestapo and wishing

289
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,040
Speaker 3: that Donald Trump was dead to saying, hey, mister President,

290
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,200
Speaker 3: we need to tone down the rhetoric here, that's what

291
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 3: we need to do. But when you read it, this

292
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,640
Speaker 3: piece that he put out, it's not even that, it's

293
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,400
Speaker 3: it's nasty.

294
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 2: Here. Let me let me share this with you. This

295
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,920
Speaker 2: is Tim walls. In his own words, well.

296
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,800
Speaker 1: I said this yesterday. We've never been at war with

297
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:03,440
Speaker 1: our federal government. I think in this case that the

298
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,320
Speaker 1: National Guard is their main mission. They have a dual mission.

299
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,640
Speaker 3: So he's saying that he's at war, Minnesota's at war.

300
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 3: Leftists are at war. And this was him posting this week,

301
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,720
Speaker 3: I'm making a direct appeal to the president. Let's turn

302
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,879
Speaker 3: the temperature down. Stop this campaign of retribution. This is

303
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,199
Speaker 3: not who we are. Well, I don't know how you're

304
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,480
Speaker 3: going to turn the temperature down if you're saying it's retribution.

305
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:32,040
Speaker 3: But he then continues an appeal to Minnesotan's I know

306
00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:36,560
Speaker 3: this is scary. We can we must speak out loudly, urgently,

307
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,800
Speaker 3: but also peacefully. We cannot flame, we cannot fan the

308
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,760
Speaker 3: flames of chaos. That's what he wants. You want the

309
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 3: president to tone down the rhetoric, and you're saying that

310
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,680
Speaker 3: he wants chaos. Well, why would he tone down the

311
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,399
Speaker 3: rhetoric if he wants chaos? What in the world are

312
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,880
Speaker 3: you even asking? And why would anybody tone down anything

313
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,720
Speaker 3: if you're calling them a chaos merchant?

314
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 2: Also, oh, what do you think this has to do

315
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 2: with Trump? ICE is doing their job.

316
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 3: And a lot of people you've been seeing mentioning, well,

317
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 3: ICE was able to get rid of all these people,

318
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,679
Speaker 3: all these illegal immigrants under Barack Obama.

319
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:12,440
Speaker 2: You didn't have this.

320
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,560
Speaker 3: And the difference is the violence from the political left

321
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,920
Speaker 3: and the left like, oh, that's not it, Oh that's

322
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 3: not true. It's the methods and guys, guys, we get it.

323
00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:26,360
Speaker 2: You don't like the masks.

324
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,480
Speaker 3: Heard loud and clear, you're trying to kill the ICE

325
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:35,120
Speaker 3: agent because they're doing their job. That's the response. Wear

326
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,760
Speaker 3: a mask, can keep doing the job. This is about

327
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,439
Speaker 3: you leftists, it is.

328
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 2: And everybody knows it.

329
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,880
Speaker 3: And oh they try to respond and react and how

330
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:46,399
Speaker 3: dare you?

331
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,560
Speaker 2: And you everybody can see it. That's the part that

332
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:50,520
Speaker 2: they're fighting against.

333
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 3: They want to gaslight America, and America sees that there

334
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,720
Speaker 3: are women showing up.

335
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:58,880
Speaker 2: To fight ICE agents.

336
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,480
Speaker 3: And yet you know, when you rent an apartment and

337
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 3: you've got the oven there and you open up that

338
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,560
Speaker 3: lower compartment, there's like this broiler thing on.

339
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:07,560
Speaker 2: It's like a broiler tray.

340
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,119
Speaker 3: It's got the little slats on it, and then the

341
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,040
Speaker 3: cover comes off the tray underneath it. This woman was

342
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 3: wearing that like it was a bulletproof vest. She strapped

343
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:17,200
Speaker 3: that to her chest.

344
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,160
Speaker 2: I kid you not. I can't make that up.

345
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,720
Speaker 3: I wouldn't know how, like your kid going to play

346
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,119
Speaker 3: in somebody's fort when they're seven. These people aren't toning

347
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 3: down the rhetoric. They're desperate for more and they want

348
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 3: more violence. It's who they are. We see them and

349
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,320
Speaker 3: you can't gaslight America on it.

350
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,400
Speaker 2: But they're trying to change the tone. And one has

351
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 2: to wonder why. On Tony Katz.

352
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,200
Speaker 3: Continuing my conversation with Steve Yates from the Heritage Foundation,

353
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,320
Speaker 3: Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, Steve Yates from Heritage where

354
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 3: he focuses on national security policy and China policy.

355
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,680
Speaker 2: We've discussed Venezuela.

356
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,719
Speaker 3: And we discussed Greenland as it through in there, and

357
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,400
Speaker 3: I was connecting what's happening in Venezuela to what's happening

358
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 3: regarding Iran.

359
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 2: And how these things affect China.

360
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 3: Iran is a story of I think this all goes

361
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 3: back to how Israel responded to October seventh, where Israel

362
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,200
Speaker 3: did not do what the world expected, which was throw

363
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,400
Speaker 3: some bombs and then okay, we'll back off because you're

364
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 3: all so angry. They miscalculated how the Israelis would feel.

365
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,120
Speaker 3: The Israeli said, no, we're done here. We had enough

366
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 3: of this. The population changed in a moment. They went

367
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 3: to bed one way on October seventh, and they woke

368
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 3: up differently on October eighth, and it hasn't changed in

369
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 3: going on on three years. So Iran then had to

370
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,920
Speaker 3: deal with the consequence of the US wanting to get

371
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 3: involved in taking out the nuclear facilities at Foordah Isfahan

372
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 3: and the Tans. And then you saw that the people

373
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 3: saw this who have no interest in the Ayatola and

374
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 3: an Islamic regime. It's not a see themselves at all.

375
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,800
Speaker 3: They would see them They certainly see themselves as Persians.

376
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,360
Speaker 3: They would see themselves more as Europeans than they were

377
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 3: would anything else. And they've decided that this is an

378
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,480
Speaker 3: opportunity to take like they tried to take in twenty

379
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 3: twelve with the Arab Spring Green Revolution, et cetera.

380
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 2: This one seems to have more legs.

381
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 3: President Trump has said, help, it's on its way, the

382
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 3: USS Abraham Link and aircraft carriers making its way to

383
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 3: the Middle East. Right now, walk me through where we

384
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 3: have gone regarding what has taken place since October seventh

385
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,879
Speaker 3: and the drone attacks and missile attacks Iran has dealt with,

386
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 3: the attacks Israel has put on them. Does it lead

387
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 3: us to a moment that we're at now that President

388
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 3: Trump and the administration could see and end to the

389
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 3: Iotola means a possible peace in the Middle East, And

390
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 3: that's everything he's ever wanted.

391
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 4: So you're right Tony to look at this arc, and

392
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 4: there's a lot that can be said about it, and

393
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,199
Speaker 4: I'll do an imperfect job, but I you know, I

394
00:21:54,240 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 4: think so did I lot there to work with? I

395
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 4: think to me one of the real inflection points outside

396
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 4: of just the population of Israel was.

397
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 6: That the Israelis, but everyone around the world saw these

398
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 6: flash mobs instantly out in the streets and saw basically

399
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 6: a neo Maoist Marxist network that were doing violent and

400
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 6: crazy things all over the world.

401
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 4: And so it made it very very.

402
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 7: Clear that the old way of talking about Israel Palestine

403
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 7: or whatever kind of peace deals and the debates about

404
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 7: settlement and all that kind.

405
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 4: Of thing that had defined the past, this is what

406
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 4: we're talking about anymore. This is an international movement that

407
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 4: is at odds, not just with Israel. All of these

408
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 4: same people are the rental mobs that are protesting against

409
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 4: Ice will call Trump hitler and whatever worse there could

410
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 4: possibly be, and they're destroying what used to be known

411
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 4: as London and the country of France. And so there's

412
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 4: something that came out of the genies bottle after October

413
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 4: seventh that has taken a while to settle in. But

414
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 4: I think that sort of feeds into why people are

415
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 4: looking at Iran differently in this case. And so we

416
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 4: also saw that America was able to take action that

417
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 4: we didn't, at least in that near time frame afterwards,

418
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 4: have devastating or expanded risk. This was not the ghost

419
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 4: of Iraq. A lot of some of our fellow center

420
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 4: right pundits were saying this is going to lead to

421
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 4: World War III. It has not, and so we're dealing

422
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 4: with a different set of facts. It doesn't surprise me

423
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 4: that Israel sees no going back October seventh. I just

424
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 4: can't imagine how people have been able to either forget

425
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:06,679
Speaker 4: or minimize the shock of that kind of activity. But

426
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 4: clearly the population of Israel, not just the hardcore, not

427
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 4: just the supporters of President Prime Minister net Yahoo. The

428
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 4: broader population sees this, and the attack on Jews everywhere

429
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 4: around the world that was linked directly to that certainly

430
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 4: made it bigger than Israeli politics, and this bigger than

431
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 4: the security of the state of Israel. So we have

432
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 4: the nuclear program that has been dealt with somewhat, but

433
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 4: that's an ongoing exercise. I think now with the oil

434
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:43,239
Speaker 4: markets pressure there is I think maybe some hope that

435
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,199
Speaker 4: broader sanctions can't be busted as easily. The ghost feats

436
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 4: fleets being dealt with by our armada means the sanctions

437
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 4: can't be busted as easily. Some of our sort of

438
00:24:55,640 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 4: comprehensive pressure tactics can be more comprehensive now. And so

439
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 4: with the threat of a military strike, greater economic pressure

440
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 4: peeling off, Russia being distracted with a grinding war in Ukraine,

441
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 4: China having to watch out for its oil supplies and

442
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 4: some other equities, you now have the theocratic regime having

443
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 4: a stand on its own. And I don't think the

444
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 4: point you've made can be made too much. The Persian

445
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 4: people are not first and foremost theocratic. This forty plus

446
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 4: year cancer was imposed upon them and it's frustrating. I

447
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 4: can't wait for the regime to go and I have

448
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 4: to have even you know, I can be more patient

449
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 4: about it than I think the Iranian people want to

450
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 4: be on that. But I do think that the administration,

451
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 4: somewhat like we were talking about with Venezuela, is trying

452
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 4: to figure out how do we roll this forward without

453
00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 4: things vibrating out of control and with their on there's

454
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 4: more variables than there were with Venezuela. That's where we are.

455
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 3: When you talk about the variables, talking to Steve Yates

456
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 3: and the Heritage Foundation, what are they? What is it

457
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 3: that the general populace isn't considering or isn't aware of

458
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 3: because we don't study these things every day that you

459
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 3: think we should be well.

460
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 4: Some of them. I think people, if they take a moment,

461
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 4: will know instinctively, and we've seen it in the past.

462
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 4: Iran has more military capability than Venezuela does, and so

463
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 4: they could choose to launch a number of things in

464
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 4: a number of different directions. If they chose to strike

465
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 4: a military base or two in the broader Middle East,

466
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 4: that can't happen without actually opening a wider war with

467
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 4: that host nation as well. But we don't I think,

468
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 4: have unanimity across those allies about what their risk tolerance

469
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 4: is and whether and how they would want us or

470
00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 4: themselves to respond. There's also navigating the same question is Venezuela.

471
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 4: If you take out a regime, where do you go.

472
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 4: We are against at this point of reviewing what happened

473
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 4: in Iraq. We're against sort of looking at debathification and

474
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 4: sending a bunch of academics to stand up in departments

475
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 4: of government and rewrite a constitution and to preside over

476
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 4: an election ourselves. Presumably there are allies in the region

477
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 4: that are better positioned to be able to navigate some

478
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 4: of that political way forward, and they would have assets

479
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 4: to deal with that. It could include exiles who come

480
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 4: back to different other movements.

481
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 8: But there's a lot that has to get sorted, and

482
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 8: I don't think it's been sorted yet, And that might

483
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 8: lead to some hesitation on the part of President Trump,

484
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 8: maybe even some hesitation on the part of the government

485
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 8: of Israel, Saudi Arabia, UAE and others that would have

486
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 8: shared equities in this way forward.

487
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 4: But the model and infrastructure is there with the Abraham Accords.

488
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 4: That is the future of having that coalition economically, militarily

489
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 4: trying to contain the align influences and chart this alternative

490
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 4: path to peace and prosperity.

491
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 3: That's the model, and I would assume that with that,

492
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 3: with an Iran that was a signator of the Abraham Accords,

493
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 3: it also would limit the opportunities and ideas of Erdowan

494
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 3: in Turkey. It keeps that further separation between the Turks

495
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 3: and maybe the Saudis, as they would both be.

496
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 2: Fighting to be the hegemonic power in the area.

497
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 3: Talking to Steve Yates of the Heritage Foundation, all of

498
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 3: this I connect to China in these places where these

499
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 3: two places Iran in Venezuela, where China gets oil, where

500
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 3: China has been trying to build influence, where China utilizes

501
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 3: these relationships to build disruptions for the United States, which

502
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 3: is of course the goal and the desire, because their

503
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 3: desire is to be the superpower of the globe.

504
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: It is about their domination. Now, this this brings about

505
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: a lot of questions.

506
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 3: One of the most recently is about the population bomb,

507
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 3: the idea of whether or not China is the superpower.

508
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 3: We think they are one point four billion people, but

509
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 3: you take a look at birth rates, take a look

510
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 3: at death rates, take a look at one child policy.

511
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: Is this even possible? This population was supposed.

512
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: To drop from one point four billion to five six

513
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 3: hundred million in the course of one hundred years.

514
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 2: Some argue we're already there.

515
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 3: How is China dealing with the moves in Venezuela that

516
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 3: have an effect on them economically, the moves in around

517
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 3: that have an effect on them economically. How do we

518
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 3: see the Chinese navigating this? And where is the pressure

519
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 3: point for the United States and for Western aligned nations

520
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 3: to further China's degradation.

521
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 4: Well, there are several pressure points that have been evolving,

522
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 4: I think in very interesting and probably positive ways for

523
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 4: our interests. From twenty twenty five I've spilling into twenty

524
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 4: twenty six. One could say that China is engaged in

525
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 4: this kind of activity in order to distract, degrade, or

526
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 4: tie down America in other parts of the world, so

527
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 4: that China can act with greater impunity in its own

528
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 4: part of the world. And I think there's something to

529
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 4: that thought process. Another is they're gaining out if there

530
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 4: was some kind of a conflict. They've watched Russia in

531
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 4: day Ukraine for an additional time, and the world, the

532
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 4: so called free world, thumped its chest about imposing different

533
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 4: kinds of sanctions, and they are studying every detail about

534
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 4: how has Russia weathered those sanctions, so that if China

535
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 4: were to act against Taiwan, the Philippines, Japan, anyone that

536
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 4: would China be similarly disposed to be able to weather sanctions, blockades,

537
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 4: changes in trade patterns, whatever those things might be. And

538
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 4: so they learned by what around in these other areas.

539
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 4: But the other is that the Chinese Communist Party, at

540
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 4: its origin and through its life cycle, is all about

541
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 4: political warfare first, and comprehensive warfare on top of that.

542
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 4: What that means is they don't really segregate sort of

543
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 4: the organized military as operating in its own under the

544
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 4: separate kind of rules. They will use civilian fishing vessels

545
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 4: for military or national security or economic security means as

546
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 4: they see fit. They will use students they send into universities,

547
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 4: or professors they send into universities in ways that they

548
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 4: see fit. Everything to them is dual use. And the

549
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 4: first reason for being in all of this for them

550
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 4: is to serve the party, to keep it in power,

551
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 4: and to inflect pain or confusion on others that get

552
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 4: in the way of the party, and they've done that

553
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 4: in all these theaters. So resetting in these other other

554
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 4: theaters limits their ability to tie us down and be

555
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 4: better a position to be able to focus on what

556
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 4: they want to do. In perhaps East Asia, it gives

557
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 4: them areas to be able to rely upon to survive

558
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 4: sanctions or a time of crisis, like I was saying

559
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 4: with the Straits of Malaca, if they have other pathways

560
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 4: to energy, they can be more resilient in a time

561
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 4: of crisis in theory, but they remain vulnerable on energy.

562
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 4: They remain vulnerable in needing access to our consumer market.

563
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 4: They are an export led economy. They cannot survive as

564
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 4: an economy without sustaining that access. And frankly, well, I

565
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 4: don't think that that President Trump's toolkit has been perfect.

566
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 4: It is far improved over the toolkit that previous presidents

567
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 4: were willing to even use. I think at this point

568
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 4: China has to be careful. They see a revitalized Japan

569
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 4: acting more independently. That matters. People can try to minimize Japan,

570
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 4: but it's a major economy and has significant capabilities, and

571
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 4: it plays a vital role in that first island chain

572
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 4: in Asia, but it also echoes into Europe and other

573
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 4: areas because no one sees Japan as a threat or

574
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 4: any stabilizers. So whatever they want to demonize Trump about,

575
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 4: you can't paint Japan with that same brush. And so

576
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 4: it helps balance some of these areas of opportunity and

577
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 4: we'll see how it all shakes out. But that's a

578
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 4: little bit of a I think dogs breakfast and putting

579
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 4: up onto the table of all the many ways that

580
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 4: we're tackling the China challenge, but it definitely is involved

581
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 4: in all of the areas that you've.

582
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 3: Outlined, and certainly the mention of Takaichi, the new Prime

583
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 3: Minister of Japan is she has not shown herself to

584
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 3: be any type of wilting flower. There is the Japanese

585
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 3: people see. I think what a lot people see. There's

586
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: an opportunity here to re set the stage. And that's

587
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: so much of what we're looking at and how I believe,

588
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 3: you know, as we've been discussing all these things, connect

589
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 3: Venezuela and Iran reset the stage with China and China's

590
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 3: abilities and ambitions, and I appreciate hearing that I'm not

591
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 3: off base with my theory.

592
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 4: We are together.

593
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: Steve Yates.

594
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 3: You can catch him at the Heritage of Foundation and

595
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 3: his work on national security and China policy. He also

596
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 3: hosts the China Desk podcast over at the Federal Newswire Federal?

597
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 2: Was it federalnewswire dot com?

598
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 4: Is that where I get the Federal Newswire dot com?

599
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 2: The Federalnewswire dot com? I figured it out all by myself, Steve.

600
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: I appreciate you being here more to get to I'm

601
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 3: Tony katz So in maybe the most unsurprising story of

602
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 3: the week, the NEA, according to disclosures, shown giving millions

603
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 3: of dollars to social justice disoriented group far left causes

604
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 3: ANYA National Education Association. Yeah, that's why you can't let

605
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:10,439
Speaker 3: these people teach your children. They can't be allowed near

606
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 3: your kids. They are an arm of the Democratic Party.

607
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,720
Speaker 3: Everybody who is anybody knows this and is fully aware

608
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 3: of this. They sent three hundred thousand dollars to the

609
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 3: sixteen thirty Fund, a liberal dark money group that, according

610
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 3: to Fox Digital, tens of thousands to the Tides Network Foundation.

611
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 3: The Tides Foundation, that's Soros, and of course that led

612
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 3: to anti Israel protests and all sorts of things.

613
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 2: The moral of the story here is.

614
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 3: That these organizations are not good and are not just.

615
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 3: They are a danger to your kids and to you,

616
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 3: and you're not supposed to support them, and you have

617
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 3: to financially starve them until they break. And that means

618
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 3: telling your kids you don't go to this school, and

619
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 3: you go to the school because you're the parent.

620
00:35:59,440 --> 00:35:59,959
Speaker 2: You're in charge.

621
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 3: Find everything at tonycats dot com.

622
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 2: I'll catch you Monday. Everyone, take care,