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Speaker 1: The only way to bag a classy lady is to

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Speaker 1: give her two tickets to the gun show.

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Speaker 2: This Monday Gun Day with the gun Guy.

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Speaker 1: Just watch up with the guns they'll get guy.

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Speaker 3: Stop calling your arms.

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Speaker 4: Gunn show.

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Speaker 1: Nigel Chasing Hammer right over there with a very special

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Speaker 1: guest on the hot line.

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Speaker 4: Here's the host of the Gun Guys Show. He is

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Speaker 4: a to a attorney, a firearms instructor, and a damn

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Speaker 4: fine American.

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Speaker 3: He's Guy Ralford. Guy, how are you?

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Speaker 2: I am great? And thanks as always to our sponsor

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Speaker 2: for Monday gunda as Premiere Arms in Brownsburg with the

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Speaker 2: largest selection of new use and historic firearms in the Midwest,

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Speaker 2: and Pa Drewler is located in the farmhouse right out front.

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Speaker 2: Check him out of thirty seven and fifty four South

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Speaker 2: Green Street in Brownsburg or Premiere Arms dot com.

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Speaker 3: So, guy, when you join us.

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Speaker 4: One of the things we like to do, and I

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Speaker 4: think it's a service to our audience, to people listening

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Speaker 4: here in Central Indie. Sometimes we'll take a story from

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Speaker 4: another state and apply it to here in Indie.

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Speaker 3: So let's go to Minnesota.

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Speaker 4: Okay, guy, what would be your advice to somebody who

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Speaker 4: is having some sort of back and forth with the police.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it's somebody here in Indiana that's going to a

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Speaker 4: protest or maybe they're getting pulled over. Next thing, you know,

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Speaker 4: you're in some sort of argument with the police, but

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Speaker 4: you also have on you your constitutionally carried firearm, legal firearm.

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Speaker 4: Because in Minnesota, this was the situation where things got heated.

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Speaker 4: There was a guy that from what we read, had

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Speaker 4: his legally acquired firearm on him. Next thing you know,

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Speaker 4: shots are fired and he's dead. If this were to

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Speaker 4: happen in Indiana, what advice would you give somebody if

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Speaker 4: they have their legally acquired firearm on them and there's

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Speaker 4: some sort of disagreement with law enforcement.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the number one priority is always to

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Speaker 2: make sure that you're not presenting any kind of a

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Speaker 2: threat to that officer. One additional possibility that, depending on

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Speaker 2: the circumstances, people may want to do is go ahead

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Speaker 2: and inform that officer that you're armed, only because you

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Speaker 2: don't want that coming as a surprise to that officer.

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Speaker 2: For some other reason, the officer discovers that, And so

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Speaker 2: I think number one thing is you still want to

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Speaker 2: present any kind of a threat to the officer. At

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Speaker 2: the same time, I really haven't liked a lot of

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Speaker 2: the commentary that we've seen, including from Republicans in the

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Speaker 2: administration and otherwise referring to Minnesota, that seemed to suggest

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Speaker 2: that simply carrying a gun, or even carrying a gun

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Speaker 2: to a protest, is in and of itself justification for

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Speaker 2: the use of deadly force against that individual. And by definition,

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Speaker 2: that's not true. And I'm a little I'm a little disappointed,

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Speaker 2: frankly that a lot of folks in THEIRS in their

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Speaker 2: zeal to the and Ice and listen, you guys know me.

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Speaker 2: I fully support ICE arresting and deporting illegal aliens. I

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Speaker 2: fully support the idea of arresting and prosecuting anyone who

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Speaker 2: tries to physically inhibit, interfere with ICE performing their lawful responsibilities.

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Speaker 2: Hey put those people in jail, No problem with that.

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Speaker 2: But the idea that, hey, this guy's carrying a gun,

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Speaker 2: therefore he deserved to have deadly force used against him. Oh,

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Speaker 2: hell no, we have a second Amendment and that includes

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Speaker 2: carrying your gun in a quote unquote protest. That's certainly

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Speaker 2: true in Indiana.

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Speaker 1: It's certainly different though than you know. It's one thing

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Speaker 1: to carry a gun during a protest or it's not

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Speaker 1: a thing at all even But to interfere in law

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Speaker 1: enforcement operations that are going on, that's something entirely different,

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Speaker 1: I think, in the fact that something just could go

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Speaker 1: wrong at any minute when you're starting to impede and

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Speaker 1: interfere or at the very least to just kind of

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Speaker 1: distract law enforcem I mean, I'm just saying the chances

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Speaker 1: for something to go horrifically wrong like it did over

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Speaker 1: the weekend increase exponentially.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And we need to talk about two different things.

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Speaker 2: We need to talk about bad judgment and that may

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Speaker 2: even contribute to getting shot at some point, but also

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Speaker 2: doing something that legally justifies having deadly force used against you. Listen,

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Speaker 2: there have been times where I've been carrying a gun

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Speaker 2: and suddenly, you know, somebody wants to get in my fate.

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Speaker 2: Not law enforcement, but somebody wants to get in my face.

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Speaker 2: I had a drunk one time poking me in the

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Speaker 2: chest tell me he's gonna kick my butt, and I

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Speaker 2: had to think, you know what, I'm carrying a gun.

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Speaker 2: I need to walk away from this confrontation because I

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Speaker 2: don't want to risk any possibility my gun becomes involved

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Speaker 2: in the situation because we start rolling around on the

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Speaker 2: ground and I lose control of my gun or whatever else.

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Speaker 2: And so I had to realize that discretion was the

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Speaker 2: better part of valor and say, no, disengage. I'm going

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Speaker 2: to walk away simply because I was carrying a gun,

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Speaker 2: where if I hadn't been carrying a gun, I would

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Speaker 2: have been much more inclined to give this guy an

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Speaker 2: obo to the face. So I get your point completely nuge.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, to say that the carrying

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Speaker 2: of a gun in a situation, even like we saw

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Speaker 2: in Minnesota, in and of itself, justified at officer shooting him, No, no,

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Speaker 2: and no. We have a Second Amendment for a reason.

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Speaker 4: Guy, Let's talk a little bit about the gun in

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Speaker 4: question here. It's a weapon that we've talked about quite

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Speaker 4: a bit on this program, and usually it's for some

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Speaker 4: controversial reasons.

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Speaker 3: This SIG three twenty.

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Speaker 4: I believe it was the weapon that was found on

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Speaker 4: the person of the now deceased in Minnesota. What's been

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Speaker 4: the backstory on this firearm?

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Speaker 2: Well, there have been a number of allegations that the

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Speaker 2: gun will spontaneously discharge and it started out. Early models

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Speaker 2: were shown did not necessarily be dropped safe and if

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Speaker 2: they were dropped at just the right angle, they could

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Speaker 2: go off. Since then, there are reports of the gun

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Speaker 2: just being in a holster, just being carried, not being touched,

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Speaker 2: and would go off and injure someone in the process.

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Speaker 2: And SIG's been sued a number of times that SIGG

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Speaker 2: has been steadfast and saying there's no defect in the gun.

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Speaker 2: I have talked to armorers, professional armorers, who gunsmiths who

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Speaker 2: have told me there is a mechanism of action that

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Speaker 2: can result in the gun going off without the trigger

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Speaker 2: being pulled. That's greatly disappointing to me. I was defending

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Speaker 2: the gun for many years. I owned two of them,

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Speaker 2: SIG three twenties. But there is a possibility to the

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Speaker 2: gun can spontaneously discharged. I've also seen a video blown

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Speaker 2: up on the internet. If you guys have seen this

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Speaker 2: same one that as the everybody refers to him, the

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Speaker 2: agent in the gray coat who took the gun from

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Speaker 2: Alex Pretty and was walking away with the gun. Close

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Speaker 2: up of that video and zoomed an image seems to

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Speaker 2: suggest that the gun may have discharged, as that officer

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Speaker 2: is carrying it away, and if that happened and the

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Speaker 2: sound of that gunshot then gave other officers a reason

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Speaker 2: to believe they were being fired upon from someone, then

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Speaker 2: you know that certainly is going to be a factor

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Speaker 2: in the analysis of whether what they did was justified.

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Speaker 2: But you know, it appeared to me from the videos

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Speaker 2: I've seen that that guy was took the gun from

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Speaker 2: pretty was then walking away, and after that were additional

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Speaker 2: shots fired by officers at the gentleman who ended up dying.

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Speaker 2: And so all that's going to have to play out.

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Speaker 2: But there does appear to be at least some evidence

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Speaker 2: of that gun discharged as it was being carried away.

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Speaker 2: Whether that's because that agent pulled the trigger or whether

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Speaker 2: the gun spontaneously discharged is yet to be seen.

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Speaker 4: One more thing on this Minnesota topic, guy, and then

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Speaker 4: we'll take a break and we'll move on to some

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Speaker 4: other things here. But I'm glad you brought this up earlier.

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Speaker 4: It's okay if you consider yourself to be a Republican

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Speaker 4: or a conservative and one of your guys says something stupid,

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Speaker 4: it's okay to call them out, Because I know you

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Speaker 4: were pretty fired up at something cash Betel said about

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Speaker 4: this situation.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean cash Betel came out and said,

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Speaker 2: you know, you come out, you carry a loaded gun

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Speaker 2: and two extra magazines. Uh, to a protest. You know,

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Speaker 2: you can expect bad things to happen. Essentially, he was

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Speaker 2: saying this simply the carrying of a gun along with

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Speaker 2: two extra magazines, somehow, in and of itself justified the

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Speaker 2: use of force against this person. And I was deeply

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Speaker 2: offended by that. For the head of the FBI to

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Speaker 2: suddenly lose sight of the fact that we have a

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Speaker 2: second Amendment in this country, Carrying a gun in in

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Speaker 2: and of itself means nothing. Carrying extra magazines I carry

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Speaker 2: extra magazines all the time. That means nothing. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean I'm intending to commit a crime, doesn't mean I'm

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Speaker 2: intending to shoot anyone. So that is upsetting to me.

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Speaker 2: I've been a defender of his I've been a defender

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Speaker 2: of the administration generally. But you know that doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: that every ice agent is infallible and incapable of making

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Speaker 2: a bad decision or using excess or force under the circumstance.

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Speaker 2: I'm not drawing that conclusion yet. I'm going to let

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Speaker 2: more facts play out. But I'm not going to just

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Speaker 2: knee jerk reaction in favor of the ice agent and

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Speaker 2: against the citizen simply based on the fact that citizens

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Speaker 2: carrying a gun. That would be hypocritical based on everything

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Speaker 2: I stand for.

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Speaker 4: It's Monday, Gun Day with the Gun Guy Guy Relford,

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Speaker 4: host of the Gun Guy Show, to a attorney and

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Speaker 4: firearms instructor Guy. The story about the Uvolde police officer

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Speaker 4: kind of brings everything together for you. It's loosely about firearms,

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Speaker 4: but it's also about the law.

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Speaker 3: So I'm curious in.

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Speaker 4: Your perspective, the school police officer cleared acquitted of any

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Speaker 4: charges when he refused to run into the building and

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Speaker 4: try to take out that school shooter.

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Speaker 3: There were a lot of deaths, A lot.

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Speaker 4: Of people blame the resource officer here, but he was

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Speaker 4: acquitted of everything.

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Speaker 3: What did you think?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wasn't surprised at all by this. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this person, this is Adrian Gonzalez. He's the school resource officer,

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Speaker 2: so he was just a responding officer. He's the officer

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Speaker 2: there on site responsible for the safety of those kids

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Speaker 2: in that school. And there's video of him. You know,

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Speaker 2: powering outside, much like we saw in Parkland, Florida during

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Speaker 2: that school shooting, and took no action. Additional officers showed up,

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Speaker 2: as we all saw and those heartbreaking videos, officers stood

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Speaker 2: around and did nothing for seventy seven minutes while the

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Speaker 2: bad guy continued to murder staff and school children, and

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Speaker 2: all of which, you know, is just unfathomable to me

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Speaker 2: that the protocols for all law enforcement across the country

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Speaker 2: since colum Mine have been you know, you find that

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Speaker 2: you or you find that threat, you eliminate the threat,

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Speaker 2: You engage the threat, do not wait, do not establish

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Speaker 2: a perimeter, you find the threat, you neutralize the threat.

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Speaker 2: End of story. And these people in Nuvaldi didn't do

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Speaker 2: that by any means for over an hour. And so

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Speaker 2: this Aidan Gonzalez was prosecuted for child endangerment, child abandonment,

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Speaker 2: and the jury came back and acquitted him on all charges.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not surprised by that. You know, it may

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Speaker 2: not have really fit the crime of child endangerment. It

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Speaker 2: was simply him not doing his job, but it just

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Speaker 2: goes to show you, you know, we have a Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court case, interestingly enough, also called Gonzalez a City of

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Speaker 2: Castle Rock versus Gonzalez. It says police have no affirmative

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Speaker 2: duty to protect you. If police fail to protect you,

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Speaker 2: you know, they can't be sued for that. And for

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Speaker 2: that reason, it doesn't surprise me a bit this guy

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Speaker 2: was found not guilty. But it also tells me that

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to listen to any government official. It says,

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Speaker 2: I don't have the to defend myself, to have the

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Speaker 2: capacity and the legal ability to defend myself, because hey,

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Speaker 2: if someone says, you know, you don't need to carry

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Speaker 2: a gun because the police will protect you, just called

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Speaker 2: nine to one one. Oh hell No, police don't have

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Speaker 2: a responsibility to protect me. It's my job to protect myself.

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Speaker 2: And for that reason, I'm not listening into any of

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Speaker 2: that criticism or those kind of limitations.

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Speaker 3: God, we've got about thirty seconds left here.

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Speaker 4: Do you like the idea of training teachers or maybe

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Speaker 4: even retired police officers, retired military guys to work at

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Speaker 4: these schools to protect the kids?

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent? I mean, you know, there's a great

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Speaker 2: book out there called The First thirty Seconds by the

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Speaker 2: Ultimate Expert on school shootings or any mass shootings, and

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Speaker 2: he says listen. The number of fatalities can be completely

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Speaker 2: predicted by the amount of time that a shooter has

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Speaker 2: until the good guy with a gun shows up. It's

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Speaker 2: simply a matter of time. Otherwise it's time and math

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Speaker 2: you just add up to casualties. So you have to

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Speaker 2: have an armed presence by someone qualified and willing, back

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Speaker 2: to mister Gonzalez's case, armed and willing to engage that

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Speaker 2: threat and neutralize that threat, hopefully in the first thirty seconds,

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Speaker 2: because that's how you minimize casualties. We saw that in

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Speaker 2: the Greenwood Park Mall back in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 4: Find him on social media at guy Reelford, Follow him,

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Speaker 4: ask questions.

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Speaker 3: He's the best guy. We appreciate you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks guys,