1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: Line from the Heartland and the crossroads of America. 2 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: It's Tony Katz today. 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Certainly that is going to be the number one topic 4 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: I think today, in addition to President Zelenski responding to 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: what President Trump heard from President Putin on Friday, and 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: the security guarantees when you talk about Article five light guarantees. 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: Obviously the security guarantees would be outside of NATO because 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: Ukraine is not a member of NATO, but a lot 9 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: of the members of NATO, especially in this coalition of 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: the Willings she mentioned, which is Great Britain, Germany, France 11 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: and several other big European countries are going to be 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: providing that assistance. They obviously want the United States involved. 13 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: The United States provides certain capabilities that aren't available to 14 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: anybody else on the globe, and so that discussion is 15 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: going to be a big part of what the Europeans 16 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: today talk about. 17 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 3: That's Matt Whitaker. He is the ambassador to NATO. He 18 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 3: was the former acting Attorney General in Trump's first term. 19 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 3: And this is all about what happened with Trump and 20 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 3: Putin and then what's going to be happening with Trump, 21 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:24,559 Speaker 3: Zelenski and these European leaders. Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, 22 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 3: good to be with you. Find everything I do over 23 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 3: at Tony katz dot com. Was the meeting with Vladimir 24 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 3: Putin a success or a failure? Well, that all depends 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 3: on what political side of the al you're on, or, 26 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 3: maybe said differently, whether you're rational or completely insane. 27 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 2: The rational person can state the following. 28 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 3: Well, great bit of stage craft done by the Trump team. 29 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 3: Putin arrives, they shake hands, they're walking up to a stage, 30 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 3: and then there's a flyover a B two by a 31 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 3: B too bomber flanked by fighter jets. 32 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: When Zelenski gets there, he has to pass all these 33 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: fighter jets. 34 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,839 Speaker 3: There was a purpose to that, and only the progressives 35 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 3: could say, ah, it made Trump look weak. 36 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 2: Look, I have to brag. It's part of the story. 37 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 3: Part of the story is we're us and we're asking 38 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 3: for this thing, and you might want to think long 39 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 3: and hard before you say no. It was a fine 40 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 3: bit of stagecraft. It was actually well done. But remember 41 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 3: the reason that the left is so opposed to this 42 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 3: idea is not that it's going to hurt the peace process. 43 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 3: They oppose the projection of strength. They absolutely can't stand it. 44 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 3: They hate it, despise the idea of strength. I always 45 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 3: go back to Barack Obama because Barack Obama never gave 46 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 3: an address from the Oval. I don't recall one. I 47 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 3: have looked into it. It can't exist. Of course, I 48 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: could amiss something, but there is no question none that 49 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 3: he never wanted to give an address from the Oval. 50 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 2: He never wanted the projection of power. 51 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 3: Now, while Biden did do a couple of Oval Office addresses, 52 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 3: they built that whole fake set instead of doing things 53 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 3: from the Oval. Trump every meeting is in the Oval, 54 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 3: every presentation is in the Oval. I'm the president. This 55 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 3: is the seat of power in the world, and I'm here. 56 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 3: So the B two flyover was part of that, that 57 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 3: projection of strength. The leftist will say, no deal came, 58 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 3: no cease fire came, It's a total failure of a meeting. Okay, 59 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 3: no deal came, no cease fire came. That's something Trump 60 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 3: would have to answer for because Trump said, if there's 61 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 3: no ceasefire, the sanctions are going to be severe. 62 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: Well, now we're in a. 63 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 3: Full pivot from ceasefire to peace deal, which gave Trump 64 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 3: the out of engaging full sanctions. 65 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: We also don't know everything that happened, everything that happened 66 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: in the meeting. 67 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: We don't know everything that took place. We don't know 68 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 3: every conversation that took place. We don't. But it's certainly 69 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 3: if you said the sanctions would be severe if there 70 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 3: was not a ceasefire, and there's no ceasefire, you're going 71 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 3: to have to answer for that. If you want to say, well, 72 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 3: we're onto something new, we pivoted and now we're getting 73 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 3: a piece yll well, you're gonna get people who talk 74 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 3: some smack about that. But if that's all they have, 75 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 3: they don't have much because they still argue that it's 76 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 3: wrong to have met with Vladimir Putin. Now you've just 77 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 3: raised his profile. You're trying to stop the war from happening. 78 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 3: And if the left wants to say just put one 79 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 3: hundred thousand US troops on the ground, already, let them 80 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 3: say it. But you'll note that they never say it. 81 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 3: They never say that the thing that it would take. 82 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 4: No. 83 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 3: Instead, they go to Eric Swallwell on MSNBC to be 84 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 3: completely insane. 85 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 2: Comes in your sense of where this goes from. 86 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 5: Here, Well, if you're Europe, you're quite worried now because 87 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,799 Speaker 5: You just saw the president of the United States achieve zero, 88 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 5: and they will have to ask themselves what more are 89 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 5: they willing to do, knowing that they too could be 90 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 5: thrown under the bus if Russia ever moved farther west. 91 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 5: But as far as objectives, I was hoping to hear 92 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 5: that there would be a trilateral meeting that didn't come 93 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 5: out of this. I was hoping to hear there'd be 94 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 5: a ceasefire that didn't come out of this. And I 95 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 5: was hoping to at least hear about the territory that 96 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 5: would be proposed or exchanged by both sides that didn't 97 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 5: come out of this. Look, Alicia, I don't know if 98 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 5: Donald Trump is or is not a Russian asset. I 99 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 5: do know that at press conference is like this, and 100 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 5: like at Helsinki. 101 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 3: He certainly, good Lord, that's the best Eric Swawall will do, 102 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 3: by the way he or can do. 103 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 2: He doesn't know what came out of the meeting. 104 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 3: All I know is Trump has the meeting on a Friday, 105 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 3: and then Monday, he's got all of Europe showing up 106 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 3: at the White House. Oh, it's gonna be a party. 107 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 3: I mean quite literally. They usually have huge planning for 108 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 3: meetings like this, all of a sudden, everybody's showing up. 109 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 3: So you can't say that there's no movement. You can 110 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 3: get me to agree that he said sees fire or sanctions, 111 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: and yes he has to deal with that, like I said, 112 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 3: but you can't say that there was no movement. You can't. 113 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 3: The question is where does the movement take us? And 114 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: what the Democrats are saying is we want it to fail. 115 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 3: He needs to be a failure. It has to fail. 116 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,239 Speaker 3: Nothing can work. They can't even celebrate the trying. 117 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: They can't do it. 118 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 3: They'll never do it. Broken people, non American in my view. 119 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 3: I'll get more into that. I did have a chance 120 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 3: to sit down over the weekend with the Israeli Ambassador 121 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 3: to the United States, Michael Ler a very very long conversation, 122 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 3: wide reaching conversation about the war in Gaza, about the 123 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 3: propaganda war and what does it mean to win. 124 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: That's coming up next. Keep it here. I'm Tony Katz. 125 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 3: So over the weekend I had the opportunity to speak 126 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 3: with Ambassador Michael Lyder, who is the Israeli Ambassador to 127 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: the United States. Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, good to 128 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 3: be with you. He was in town and he's doing 129 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 3: some touring and connection to Connection, and there we sat 130 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 3: in the studio having a conversation for well over fifty minutes, 131 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 3: a little bit about Bourbon, a little bit about Israel, 132 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 3: a lot about Israel specifically the war with Gaza, specifically 133 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 3: what he sees from the US media. 134 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: And so I'm gonna bring you parts of that interview. 135 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 3: I'll have the whole thing up on the YouTube channel 136 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 3: at Tony Katz and I'll have it up as a 137 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 3: special piece of podcasts share that over there. I asked 138 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,679 Speaker 3: the questions including who dropped the ball on October seventh? 139 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 3: You know, is is this war winnable? 140 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: Meaning what does it mean to win? And we had 141 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: an interesting bit of. 142 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 3: Back and forth twice regarding does Hamas remain or not remain? 143 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 3: What does it mean disarmed versus dismantled? And it was 144 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 3: it was a very interesting look. But I appreciate very 145 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 3: much Ambassador Light's candor. 146 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: It was it was very very present, not only a. 147 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: Bit of the historical references and making sure you understand connections, 148 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 3: connection pieces to just the current situation and the very honest, 149 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 3: sober look at what it is. Israelis are dealing with 150 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 3: what Americans are seeing in their universities and from their 151 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 3: politicos and others. So the conversation it didn't start here, 152 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 3: but I'll share it with you here. Where are the Israelis? 153 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 3: I mean, are they looking to end Tamas or are 154 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 3: they looking for this war to be over? Are the 155 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 3: people of Israel with you on this idea, because certainly 156 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 3: I have never discussed the destruction of Hamas as in 157 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 3: somehow there's a man left standing, But one could argue, 158 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 3: how could you ensure you got every last man? Are 159 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 3: the Israelis with you on this? Do they want this 160 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 3: fight to continue until Hamas is gone? Or is it 161 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 3: get the hostages back and we'll worry about the rest later. 162 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 3: Which certainly was at conversation piece a year plus ago, 163 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 3: certainly seems to have changed since the release of the 164 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 3: videos that you're referencing, showing these hostages being starved and 165 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 3: horrific conditions, one very possibly digging his own grave. I mean, 166 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 3: that's what it looked like to anybody who had a mind. 167 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, look, it's a legitimate discussion. 168 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 6: Everybody's united that Gaza could never go back to October sixth. 169 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 6: There's nobody in Israel doesn't agree to that Gaza could 170 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 6: never again pose a threat TI Israel. There is a 171 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 6: discussion over whether or not we could achieve that if 172 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 6: we now move back, basically surrender to get the hostages out. 173 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 6: The majority opinion is, which comes to the fore clearly 174 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 6: in all the polling, is that we will not succeed 175 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 6: in getting all the hostages out alive and leave Hamas 176 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 6: standing at the end of the day. They're going to 177 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 6: hold out to the very end, and we could try, 178 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 6: but the idea of surrender and leaving Hamas intact will 179 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 6: pose a visceral existential threat in the future. So it's 180 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 6: a very difficult question that we're facing. There is a 181 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 6: discussion about it, but the majority of people are still 182 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 6: absolutely convinced that we have to get the hostages out 183 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 6: as we remain intent on destroying Ramas. It's a hard 184 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 6: bridge to cross, Okay, it's a hard circle to square, 185 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 6: but we're working on it. And it's important to remember 186 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 6: we started with two hundred and fifty five hostages. We 187 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 6: got two hundred and five out with a combination of 188 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 6: both negotiation and military pressure. We did not accomplish anything 189 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 6: without military pressure. The military pressure has to continue, and 190 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 6: that's the only thing that has a chance of convincing 191 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 6: the last men standing in Framas to give up. 192 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,839 Speaker 3: Talking to Ambassador Michael Leiter, the Israeli ambassador to the 193 00:11:52,960 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 3: United States, one more question about October Seventh's that's the 194 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 3: hard question. How who took their eyes off the ball? 195 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 3: In the end, someone has to be responsible for not 196 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 3: knowing things that we could argue clearly not everything could 197 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 3: have been known, but many things should have been known. 198 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 6: Yeah, what was it that that great philosopher Forrest Gump said? 199 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 6: Stuff happens, and this was bad stuff. It was a 200 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 6: perfect storm. There was a breakdown in the system and 201 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 6: for a good six to eight hours we were dysfunctional. 202 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 6: But nobody should get the wrong idea. We have the 203 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 6: best intelligence in the world. We proved that just a 204 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 6: few months later in Beirut when five thousand beepers went 205 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 6: off in people's pockets. We proved that a few days 206 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 6: after that with the walkie talkies that went off basically 207 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 6: decimated Krizbala. This was an organization, a terrorist organization that 208 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 6: was feared across the world, and fifty thousand storm troopers 209 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 6: we basically masculated them and then What makes that even 210 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 6: look like a playground was what we accomplished in the 211 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 6: middle of Tehran. Okay, we the same army that failed 212 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 6: on October seventh, created a drone factory in the center 213 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 6: of Tehran over months and sent them into action, all 214 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 6: at the same time, taking out all of the nuclear 215 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,719 Speaker 6: scientists and all of the generals that hitted up the 216 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 6: IRGC in about ninety seconds. Then we had all of 217 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 6: the installations, the missile installations, their raning missile installations taken out, 218 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 6: some by air, some on the ground, paving the way 219 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 6: for Midnight Hammer, so that our planes could have complete 220 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 6: dominance over the skies in Iran, opening the way for 221 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 6: the B twos, the American B twos, to fly in 222 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 6: uncontestant to take out these nuclear sites. By the way, 223 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 6: it was an unprecedented collaboration between Israel and the United States. 224 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 6: There's never been anything on this scale, the intensity of 225 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 6: the collaboration, which I was personally witnessed to being the 226 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 6: point man in Washington between the Israel governments and the 227 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 6: Trump administration. 228 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 3: You come in to your job as President Trump is 229 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 3: getting inaugurated, and I mentioned you're born in Scranton, right, 230 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 3: and so all we've ever heard about Joe Biden, you know, 231 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 3: a scrappy kid from Scranton, allegedly. I don't know if 232 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 3: he was scrappy or not. I didn't know him at 233 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 3: the time. Talk about the difference in support or to 234 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 3: the extent there is a difference in support between the 235 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 3: Biden administration and the Trump administration, which admittedly you do 236 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 3: have a much closer view of than maybe anybody. 237 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 6: Right, Well, a few things. I mean. First of all, 238 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 6: I think that Joe Biden belonged to the traditional Democratic 239 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 6: support for Israel. He had a visceral, belly up, natural 240 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 6: support for the State of Israel, which goes back decades. 241 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 6: I think that he was dealing with a situation where 242 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 6: there were many demanding of him more of a heavy 243 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 6: handed policy towards Israel. I think for the most part 244 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 6: he deflected it. But there was something that we had 245 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 6: to deal with which is very problematic, and that was 246 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 6: an arms embargo functional arms in bargo during a seven 247 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 6: front war that we had to contend with him. The 248 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 6: first thing that President Trump did coming into office was 249 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 6: to remove that embargo and put everything back on track. 250 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 6: It took some time, because you know, the moment you 251 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 6: take the train off the tracks, it takes a little 252 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 6: bit more time. Even though you have a direction instruction 253 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 6: to put it back on, it takes some time. But 254 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 6: it was done. It was the first thing we've ever 255 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 6: had a better friend in the White House, President Trump. 256 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 6: He brought us the Abraham Accords in twenty nineteen. And 257 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 6: nobody could have imagined that Israel would have a piece 258 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 6: accord with four Muslim states without being demanded of to 259 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 6: divide Jerusalem, to give up the Jewish communities in Judaani Samaria, 260 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 6: just to live in peace. And I'll tell you, before 261 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 6: the war, I spent a good deal of time in 262 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 6: Abu Dhabi, and you see I have a kipa yamakam. 263 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 6: I felt more comfortable in Abu Dhabi than I feel 264 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 6: in most European cities as a Jew. Now, who could 265 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 6: have imagined that ten years ago? Okay, and some of 266 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 6: my deepest discussions on philosophy, on theology, on political science 267 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 6: taking place with colleagues in the Muslim world. That wouldn't 268 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 6: have been possible for the Abraham courts. 269 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 3: Now go ahead, So you. 270 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 6: Know, I think are there differences. I'll tell you one thing, 271 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 6: I am absolutely committed to and it's difficult because the 272 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 6: added the atmosphere in Washington now is very partisan. It 273 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 6: but I'm absolutely committed to making and keeping Israel as 274 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 6: bipartisan as possible. It is probably the most difficult job 275 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 6: that I have, or part of the job that I have, 276 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 6: is keeping things bipartisan. I engage with senators and congressmen 277 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 6: are very critical of Israel. I want to keep the 278 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 6: door open for discussion, but obviously I want to embrace 279 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 6: those senators, like the senators of Indiana and the congressmen 280 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 6: of Indiana, who are so consistently supportive, like the governor 281 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 6: I hope to meet tomorrow, so consistently supportive of Israel 282 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 6: in every way. And while I'm working hard towards bipartisan embrace, 283 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 6: I want to make sure that I don't leave the 284 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 6: very close engagement that we have with the best friends 285 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 6: who are constantly you know, at our backs and holding 286 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 6: firm you mentioned. 287 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 2: Who would have thought that ten years ago? 288 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 3: And I think that what we see now is just 289 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 3: an unbelievable openness to the hatred. But I can point 290 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 3: back to eleven years talking about European cities, Charlie Ebdoh 291 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 3: and the attack there in France. This is a constant 292 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 3: and consistent thing. We can talk about those who have 293 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 3: been beheaded by Islamists in the middle of the United Kingdom, 294 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 3: and yet these places still refuse to be on the 295 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 3: side I think of the rational. 296 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 2: We'll get to that. 297 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 3: But you brought up the people of Congress, and certainly 298 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 3: we have seen some people of Congress being not just 299 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 3: critical but flat out. 300 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 2: Would the term be. 301 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 3: A fabulous or just engaged in a radical amount of 302 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 3: rhetoric and a very little bit of fact? 303 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: We see the US universities. 304 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 3: You spoke very clearly about this regarding the New York 305 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,199 Speaker 3: Times and the posting of this photo of look at 306 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 3: this starving child, and it turns out this child is 307 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 3: not starving. This child has cerebral palsy. This child has 308 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 3: other issues that lead to the malnutrition, and in the 309 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 3: photo cut out of the photo there's his brother healthy 310 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 3: as can be. How much harder I mean, you actually 311 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 3: referred to that as a blood letting, as a demonization 312 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 3: in the reporting. How much harder does that make the 313 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 3: job of defeating humas. 314 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 2: So the conversation continues from there, and I will bring 315 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 2: it to you more ahead. 316 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 3: Tony Katz This is Tony Katz today, continuing my conversation 317 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 3: with Ambassador Michael Lighter. Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, good 318 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 3: to be with you. His Hebrew name is hil Lighter. 319 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 3: And I don't know why I told you that. It's 320 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 3: just I tried to pronounce it multiple times, and it's 321 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 3: like they wouldn't give me a fit answer on how 322 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 3: to pronounce it. I say, just tell me. 323 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 2: I don't know if they were messing with me or 324 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 2: whatever it was. 325 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 3: I spoke with the ambassador for almost an hour over 326 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 3: over the weekend. It was a good, good conversation. There 327 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 3: was pushback, there was there was a history lesson, there 328 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 3: was there was really, I think for me, a takeaway 329 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 3: that the ambassador embodies an approach of we're not apologizing. 330 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 3: We're not going to apologize in the slightest we are 331 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,959 Speaker 3: not going to pretend that everything is all right, and 332 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 3: we're not going to beg for our supper. 333 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 2: We're going to put an end to these people. 334 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 3: We're going to fight the propagandists who come at us, 335 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 3: and we're not going to stop. 336 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 2: And that led to the conversation regarding the New York Times. 337 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 3: You spoke very clearly about this regarding the New York 338 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 3: Times and the posting of this photo of look at 339 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 3: this starving child, and it turns out this child is 340 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 3: not starving. This child has cerebral palsy. This child has 341 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 3: other issues that lead to the malnutrition. And in the 342 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 3: photo cut out of the photo there's his brother healthy 343 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 3: as can be. How much harder I mean, you actually 344 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 3: referred to that as a blood letting, as a demonization 345 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 3: in the reporting. How much harder does that make the 346 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 3: job of defeating Hamas. 347 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 2: Well? It makes it much more difficult. 348 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 6: We can actually see in the intel that Hamas hardens 349 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 6: its position in negotiations over the hostages every time the 350 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,959 Speaker 6: Europeans sound off in favor of a Palestinian state. I mean, 351 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 6: you know, Madame Macron and Prime Minister starmer In, the 352 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 6: Prime Minister of Canady really have to stop and think, 353 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 6: what are you doing? Are you really going to give 354 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 6: the Palestinians a prize? 355 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: Now? 356 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 6: Is October seventh going to be Palestine Independence day? Now 357 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 6: our hostages are still rotting in tunnels. You're proclaiming recognition, 358 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 6: you're in a lateral What does that even mean? How 359 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 6: do you unilaterally recognize what does that mean who's the government? Well, 360 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 6: you know the last time you tried this, you gave 361 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 6: elections to the people of Gazla. You know they elected, 362 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 6: They elected Hamas, and the polls indicate that today if 363 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 6: they were held in Judaan Samaria, they may once again 364 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 6: elect Haramas. And I want to tell you the people 365 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 6: of Israel have been willing to work towards a Palestinian 366 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 6: state alongside of Israel for decades. That was Oslo. We 367 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 6: try to make Oslo work. We ended up with buses 368 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 6: being bombed. I was the deputy director General of the 369 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 6: Ministry of Education. One of the things I had to 370 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 6: deal with in the Second Defada were hundreds of thousands 371 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 6: of school kids suffering from all sorts of anxieties because 372 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 6: they had to take school buses and the school buses 373 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 6: were targeted. We lost one hundred and sixty two children 374 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 6: during the Second of Defada because school buses were targeted 375 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 6: by yasar Arafa. It wasn't even Hamas at the time. 376 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 6: It was yasar Arafa with whom we had a peace deal. Now, 377 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 6: after October seventh, the bandwidth in Israel for a Palestinian 378 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 6: state west of the Jordan has been reduced to about 379 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 6: a hair's breadth. 380 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 3: Right, there's appen that was probably the biggest sea change 381 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 3: is not from from coast to non coast. 382 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 6: I mean, look, somebody's just got to take a look 383 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 6: at the map. As I said before, Israel fits into 384 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 6: Indiana four and a half times. Now, if we're going 385 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 6: to carve out Judaan Samaria, we're reducing Israel from a 386 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 6: country that is now forty miles wide to a country 387 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 6: that'll be nine miles wide. How do you possibly protect 388 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 6: the country that's nine miles wide? You know, people often 389 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 6: ask why do you have two ports? One in Haifa 390 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 6: and one in Ashdod on the Mediterranean. One port in 391 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 6: the Mediterrane will be enough. I mean, there's only ninety 392 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 6: kilometers in between them. Why do you have two ports? Well, 393 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 6: the reason is that the founder of Israel, the first 394 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 6: Prime Minister of Israel, Bengorian, realized that when you have 395 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 6: a country so narrow, nine miles wide, it's easy to 396 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 6: cut it in half. You didn't want a situation where 397 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 6: we'd be without a port, right, so I put one 398 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 6: above the nine mile wide with and one below, one 399 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 6: ad in the south, one Hype in the north. That's 400 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 6: those are the parameters of the country. So we're not 401 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 6: about to reduce ourselves to the pre sixty seven border, 402 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 6: particularly after we saw what jihadis on our border can do. 403 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,959 Speaker 6: So we want to think out of the box. We 404 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 6: want the Palestinians to live in dignity, We want them 405 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 6: to have local autonomy. You want to think of all 406 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 6: sorts of ideas that are going to raise their standard 407 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 6: of living. And by the way, already they have a 408 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 6: higher GDP per capita than their neighbors in Egypt and Jordan, 409 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 6: certainly Syria. When I've been talking about that, but. 410 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 3: You you brought up Canada and Portugal, the UK and 411 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 3: France saying they're going to recognize a Palestinian state. We 412 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 3: talk about how the propaganda of the New York Times 413 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 3: makes it more difficult. This makes it more more difficult. 414 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 6: Because that's you mentioned New York Times. I got to 415 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 6: point something out to you. 416 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:58,719 Speaker 2: Feel free. 417 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 6: So the idea that Zionism began in the nineteenth century 418 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 6: is nonsense. Zionism is an integral part of Judaism. There's 419 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 6: no Judaism without Zionism. We're introduced in Judaism to Abraham, right, Abraham, 420 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 6: what does Abraham do as we're introduced to him, go 421 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 6: to the land of Israel. That's our introduction to Abraham. 422 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 6: Nothing else. Everything else follows that. Our very introduction is 423 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 6: the bond between the first Jew and the Land of Israel. 424 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 6: And everything else in Genesis centers around that. They have 425 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 6: to leave because of famine, they have to go back 426 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 6: to the land. Isaac leaves because of famine, goes back 427 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 6: to the land. Jacob is warned despite the famine not 428 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,479 Speaker 6: to leave. Then it's exile from the land in Egypt, 429 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 6: and then it's leaving Egypt where the land of Israel. 430 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 6: That's the whole story of the advent of the Jewish people. 431 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 6: So this idea that you know, Zionism was born out 432 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 6: of German nationalism of the nineteenth century. It's all poppy cock, 433 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 6: it's all nonsense. It's all attempt post. By the way, 434 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 6: Edward said, professor of English Literature and Columbia University, really 435 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 6: began this whole woke nonsense about you know, being us 436 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 6: being colonizers. 437 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 2: He said. 438 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 6: He had this phrase, the British left Nigeria and the 439 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 6: French left Algeria, only the Jews remained in Palestine. Yeah, man, 440 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 6: but Jews are to the land of Israel, not what 441 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 6: the British are to Nigeria or what the French are 442 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 6: to Algeria. We're indigenous. We're not usurpers, We're not Aliens, 443 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 6: We're not colonizers. We're indigenous to the land. In the 444 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 6: land is indigenous to us. 445 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,479 Speaker 3: Talking to the ambassador, the Israelian Ambassador to the United States, 446 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 3: Michael Leider, that subject, that conversation, in order to work, 447 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 3: has to involve a participant that is actually willing to 448 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 3: listen to it and impossibly engage a. 449 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 2: Debate in it. 450 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 3: What you see as you bring the New York Times, 451 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 3: as we talk about this propaganda piece, things that we 452 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 3: see on college campuses are people who will not listen 453 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 3: to it. And I would say that this is something 454 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 3: of American progressives that you could argue that in the main, 455 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 3: but it's certainly not all. Whether we're talking about Senator 456 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 3: John Fetterman of Pennsylvania and Congressman. 457 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 2: Richie Torres of New York. 458 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 3: These are people I disagree with vehemently on a great 459 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 3: number of topics on Israel. 460 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 2: They are remarkably. 461 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 6: Sound and strong one hundred percent, But. 462 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 3: American progressives keep discussing like the former Transportation secretary, former 463 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,959 Speaker 3: mayor South Bend that you mentioned earlier, Pete Buddha judge 464 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 3: who I'm assuming is trying to figure out whether or 465 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 3: not he's running. In twenty twenty eight, and went on 466 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 3: a podcast called Pod Save America, which is run by 467 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 3: guys who are part of the Obama team, and the 468 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 3: conversation of Israel came up, and his answers were so 469 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 3: out of all sides of his mouth that he had 470 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 3: to come back and further engage clarification. And once again, 471 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 3: as with so many of these people, well the clarification involves, well, 472 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 3: we need a two state solution. There has to be 473 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 3: a two state solution. What we need is a two 474 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 3: state solution, Ambassador. So is there any possibility at all, ever, 475 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 3: in any way of a two state solution. 476 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,239 Speaker 6: Well, it's not two and it's not state, and it's 477 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 6: not solution. But aside from that, let me let me 478 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 6: get back to that in a minute. I got sidetracked. 479 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 6: I was going to say something about the New York Times. 480 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 2: Oh, go ahead, you know, as I said before. 481 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 6: The New York Times blood libel against the State of Israel, 482 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 6: where it puts a baby suffering from cystic fibrosis on 483 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 6: the cover and claims and crops out the brother who's 484 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 6: perfectly healthy, and you can't really see that the mother 485 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 6: is perfectly healthy because she's kind of coddling the spine 486 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 6: exposed little boy suffering. They knew what the story was. 487 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 6: They knew it, and it hit some seventy to eighty 488 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 6: million people when they were attracted it five days later, 489 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 6: and it really wasn't a retraction. It was this milli 490 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 6: mouth kind of apologetica. It nearly didn't really say that 491 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 6: we were It wasn't a mea culpa. Some fifty thousand 492 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 6: people saw it right five days later. I didn't even 493 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 6: understand the context. 494 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: That's a blood libel. 495 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 6: I mean, what is the difference between that and saying 496 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 6: that Jews use blood in preparing their Mansas for Passover. 497 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 6: That's an excuse to kill Jews. 498 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 2: And we saw it. 499 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 6: By the way, I had two of my employees killed. 500 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 6: Two diplomats from the embassy and Jerusalem were shot dead 501 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 6: by somebody who flew from Chicago with a gun and 502 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 6: said free, free, free Palestine and shot them dead. As 503 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 6: a matter of fact, when the young girl Sarah from 504 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 6: Kansas beautiful young lady was crawling away after she had 505 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 6: been shot. Once he moved closer to make sure that 506 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 6: she was dead, you know, fired another round. Where dides 507 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 6: sickness come from, if not from this campus insanity or 508 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 6: from people claiming that we're implementing a genocide. Implementing a genocide. 509 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 6: It is unprecedented and the annals of history of modern 510 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 6: warfare where a country at war with a foreign entity 511 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 6: is providing a surge of humanitarian funding. We're not responsible 512 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 6: for that. We're responsible to allow the UNN to facilitate 513 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 6: the provision of humanitarian and we're doing that, and I 514 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 6: don't want to get back to them. We're doing it 515 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 6: in a big way, in a big way. But let 516 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 6: me get back to New York Times. The New York 517 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 6: Times in the early part of the twentieth century under 518 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 6: Jewish ownership. I love it when people say, well, you know, 519 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 6: Bernie Sander is a Jew. 520 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 2: Okay, you want to hear my takes no. 521 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 6: Yeah, listen, listen, he's not ideal. Okay, say had of 522 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 6: a Jewish mother. Okay, but you know, please don't claim 523 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 6: the mantle. You know that you have a right to speak, 524 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 6: and we have the Jewish people because you had a 525 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 6: Jewish mother. That doesn't rate. Okay, The question is how 526 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 6: do you feel about the state of Israel. How do 527 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 6: you feel about the most important thing the Jewish people 528 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 6: have in the world today? Okay, if you're constantly working 529 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 6: to put an embargo on them, don't claim the mantle 530 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 6: of you know well, I have a Jewish accent, and 531 00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 6: I come from Brooklyn. 532 00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 3: With all due. 533 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 2: Respect, I loved the whole with all due respect. 534 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 3: Line because for me, y'all, I'll say, I won't speak 535 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 3: for the ambassador. 536 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 2: There's no respect to have for Bernie Sanders. None. Bernie 537 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 2: Sanders on every level is a failure. 538 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 3: A failure is a man, a failure in his politics, 539 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 3: a failure when it comes to being able to recognize 540 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 3: right from wrong, a failure to speak honestly and clearly. 541 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 3: He's a failed human being who has never provided any 542 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 3: value anywhere at all. That he has popularity, that people 543 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 3: like Dana bash Over at CNN want a lot and 544 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 3: glorify him really ugly stuff, as I see it, very 545 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 3: very ugly stuff. My conversation with Ambassador Michael Leiterer of 546 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 3: the Israeli Ambassador to the United States. I mean it 547 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 3: covered a lot, a lot, a lot of subjects, and 548 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 3: I'm going to be posting the whole thing, so you 549 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,479 Speaker 3: have it. I'm going to be playing more of it 550 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 3: in the days ahead. Just a look of philosophy is 551 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 3: to like, what moves these people? What exactly are they 552 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 3: all about? And certainly when it comes to the absolute 553 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 3: horror of the New York Times, when it comes to them, 554 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 3: we have to stop thinking of them as the paper 555 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 3: of record. I've said this before, I'll say it again. 556 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 3: The New York Post has to be the paper of record, 557 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 3: and President Trump should say so. The New York Times 558 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 3: is no longer in charge. 559 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 2: This is not news. How many more times can they 560 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 2: fail enough? 561 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 3: The New York Post is the paper record, The Washington 562 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 3: Times is the paper of record. You're the paper of record, 563 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 3: far better track record than the New York Times. 564 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 2: We need to put an end to this immediately, If 565 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 2: not sooner, keep it here. 566 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 3: I'm Tony Katz. This is Tony Kats today. I don't 567 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 3: know what's going on with today. If it's something in 568 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 3: the water, if there's a full moon, half moon, if 569 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 3: there's multiple moons, I don't know. 570 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 2: But my social media feed has been nutty than. 571 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 3: Normal, Tony Katz, Tony Kats today is so good to 572 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 3: be with you. And it's not that I don't get 573 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 3: crazy people in throwing crazy stuff my way. It's that 574 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 3: not every day do I get called a Nazi. And 575 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 3: today it was just like chock full of it. Somebody 576 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 3: yelled at me because I breathed too much into the microphone. 577 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 2: I'm like, what are you? What are you talking about? 578 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 3: Like, people are just very angry and they don't know 579 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 3: how to express themselves and so it comes. 580 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 2: Out in insanity. And so the Nazi thing today. 581 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 3: Was like the same stuff you get, right, it's not 582 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 3: different because I'm on this side of the microphone. Oh 583 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 3: you disagree with me, you must be a Nazi. Oh 584 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 3: U sport Trump, you must be a Nazi. Oh uh, 585 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 3: I don't like. 586 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 2: What you wore this morning, you must be a Nazi. 587 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: Right. 588 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 3: It's it's that kind of thing. It's this Pavlovian ridiculous 589 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 3: response from people with small minds who do not know, 590 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 3: they don't know how to engage. Then there's Joy Reid, 591 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 3: which I will tell you I have been trying not 592 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 3: to play any of her stuff, not at all. She's 593 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 3: it's just it's beyond silly. But this is a new 594 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 3: level of. 595 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 2: Are we're calling it black supremacist? 596 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: Right? 597 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 3: If not, then then I'll come up give me a 598 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 3: different name. You tell me what this is. 599 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 2: They can't fix the history they did. 600 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 4: Their ancestors made this country into a slave, a slave. 601 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 2: Hell, she's talking about white people. 602 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 3: She's on this podcast, she's talking about white people. She's 603 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 3: wearing a hat that says FDT. What do you think 604 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,760 Speaker 3: that means? Just just in care right, it's it's instead 605 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 3: of FJB, it's FDT. 606 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 2: And here. They can't fix the history they did. 607 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:54,240 Speaker 4: Their ancestors made this country into a slave, a slave. 608 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 2: Hell. 609 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 4: But they can clean it up now because they got 610 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 4: the Smithsonian. 611 00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 2: They can get rid of all the slavery stuff. 612 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 4: They got gregor you that can lie about the history 613 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 4: to the children. They can't originally invent anything more than 614 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 4: they ever were able to invent good music. We black 615 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 4: folk gave y'all country music, hip hop, R and B. 616 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 6: Jazz, rock and roll. 617 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 4: They couldn't even invent that. But they have to call 618 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 4: a white man the king because they couldn't make rock 619 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 4: and roll. 620 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 2: So they have to stamp the. 621 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,879 Speaker 4: King on a man whose main song was stolen from 622 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 4: an overweight black woman. 623 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 3: Well, I didn't realize we were going to be doing 624 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 3: the whole white men can jump mentality. 625 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 2: That is something else. 626 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 3: I also noticed that she doesn't mention all the thousands 627 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 3: upon thousands of one hundreds of thousands of white men 628 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 3: who died to end slavery, all of the Civil War. 629 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 3: But that's not the argument. That's not worthy of our time. 630 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 3: What is to note here is that just like I 631 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 3: was talking about these trolls so broken, she's got nothing else. 632 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 2: You can't talk policy, she can't talk philosophy. All she 633 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 2: can do is hate. 634 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 3: And that's why people like her progressives can't be allowed 635 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 3: to have power again. Find everything at Tony Katz dot com. Tomorrow, 636 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 3: everyone take care