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Speaker 1: Ethan.

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Speaker 2: You may have heard there's a lot of drama with

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Speaker 2: the IEDC here in the state of Indiana.

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Speaker 3: I think I have heard a thing or two about that,

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Speaker 3: some controversy. Some would say, yeah, look, we're not letting

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Speaker 3: this go.

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Speaker 2: Of course, IEDC Indian Economic Development Corporation, and this forensic

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Speaker 2: audit that came out that essentially showed hundreds of millions

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Speaker 2: of dollars over the past three years from twenty two

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Speaker 2: to twenty four really really just given away.

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Speaker 3: Massive conflicts of interest and yet no criminal wrongdoing. We're told,

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Speaker 3: just some ethical considerations, but they'll fix that.

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Speaker 1: In the future. Well, don't worry.

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Speaker 2: Well, and we've touched on that, which is now that

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Speaker 2: the information is out in which money was taken from

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Speaker 2: poor and middle class people and then given to this

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Speaker 2: shadow quasi government entity, and then those dollars, much of them,

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Speaker 2: went to companies, to organizations, to people who are connected

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Speaker 2: with the people who are making the decisions. I think

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Speaker 2: the five alarm fire now is that the governor came

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Speaker 2: out and declared no criminal wrongdoing, but then says it's

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Speaker 2: going to go to the inspector General, when that's the

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Speaker 2: job of the inspector general to decide if it needs

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Speaker 2: to be forwarded to law enforcement for criminal proceedings.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense there, Rob,

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Speaker 3: It makes about as much sense as the IEDC giving

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Speaker 3: money to the Colts organization to advertise on the stadium.

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Speaker 3: What is the Indiana Economic Development Corporation advertising in the Colts.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we will give you money, come to us. But

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Speaker 2: our next guest has been fighting, and he's been on

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Speaker 2: this program multiple times over the years. Has been fighting

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Speaker 2: the Indian Economic Development Corporation for years, and he's been

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Speaker 2: fighting the Leap District, which is the well, the poster

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Speaker 2: child for all that's wrong with the IEDC. And in

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Speaker 2: part of that forensic audit, what's something like four hundred

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Speaker 2: plus million dollars of our money has gone to the

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Speaker 2: Leap Innovation District out in leban And Jim Love joins

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Speaker 2: us now a farmer's farmer.

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Speaker 1: Jim Love, Hello, Hello, Rob, thank you for having us back. Yeah. Absolutely, So.

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Speaker 2: You have a new piece out along with Brian Daggy

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Speaker 2: in the Indiana Capital Chronicle. Now, you're a part of

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Speaker 2: the Bun County Preservation Group which has been fighting Leap

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Speaker 2: fighting IEDC. Tell us about the piece you guys wrote

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Speaker 2: which I thought was very well written, just going right

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Speaker 2: at the heart of these things that are wrong with IEDC.

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Speaker 1: So generally, what we are for is we are for

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Speaker 1: a responsible development of farmland, responsible development of the resources

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Speaker 1: we have, and making sure that the resources that we

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Speaker 1: have are used so that the future generations have some

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Speaker 1: place to live and have resources to work with. And

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Speaker 1: so these arsonists that are taking there are resources right

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Speaker 1: now and burning them to the ground in an effort

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Speaker 1: to either build fortune and fame or build their resume

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Speaker 1: or for whatever the reason, lots of which doesn't make

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Speaker 1: sense until this audit comes out, and then things seem

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Speaker 1: to straighten themselves out a little bit because it seems

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Speaker 1: unconscionable that are the people that sit in the seats

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Speaker 1: of political leadership. I would call them political leaders, but

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Speaker 1: they're not. They're just the people that sit in those

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Speaker 1: seats would vote so dramatically against the constituents that they're

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Speaker 1: meant to represent. And so we said once again that

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Speaker 1: now that we've had this audit come out and it

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Speaker 1: shows that this money has misappropriated, that it's time for

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Speaker 1: some real accountability. And so this business of where politicians

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Speaker 1: can do things that are close to illegal or illegal.

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Speaker 1: If you did that in the private sector, you'd lose

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Speaker 1: your job.

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Speaker 2: So that was what like we just touched on, and

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Speaker 2: I want you to go into this a little bit.

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Speaker 2: This is what's maddening to me. So bron spends all

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Speaker 2: this money, eight hundred thousand dollars do this audit. It

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Speaker 2: reveals all the stuff that people like Ethan and I

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Speaker 2: have talked about for years, which is that the Indian

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Speaker 2: Economic Development Corporation is just a glorified legalized money laundering operation.

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Speaker 1: And then the governor.

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Speaker 2: Like totally contradicts himself by going, well, it's going to

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Speaker 2: the Inspector General, but then also says, well, nothing criminal happened.

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Speaker 2: That's up for the Inspector General decide, but he's already

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Speaker 2: compromised the investigation.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's a classic problem where government is unable to

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Speaker 1: police itself, and it's it's just human nature. If your

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Speaker 1: wife said you're drinking too much beer and eating too

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Speaker 1: much pizza, and you said, I will do an audit

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Speaker 1: on that deer and I'll get back with you, you

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Speaker 1: would probably call your buddies and you would concur that

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Speaker 1: everything is a okay. And so that's The problem is

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Speaker 1: that the government decides, hey, we're going to audit ourselves

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Speaker 1: and we're going to make sure that we're above the board,

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Speaker 1: and they always come back that they're just slightly above

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Speaker 1: the board enough that you can see a freckle on them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well they right.

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Speaker 2: And this is the other part that's frustrating is they

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Speaker 2: write the rules special for themselves because they're in this

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Speaker 2: quasi shadow government entity where, let's face it, thirty conflicts

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Speaker 2: of interest ethan. We talked about this in the program.

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Speaker 2: If you're a local government official and you violet the

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Speaker 2: conflict of interest statute, that could be a felony you

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Speaker 2: And there's thirty of these here, And well, it's different

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Speaker 2: for them because they're they write theron rules in their

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Speaker 2: quasi government entity.

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Speaker 1: Well, and the IEC is as a brilliant animal because

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Speaker 1: it is a government when they need to drop the

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Speaker 1: hammer and force somebody to do something or intimidate somebody

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Speaker 1: to do something, and then their non government when they

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Speaker 1: need to follow some rules it would be associated with

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Speaker 1: the government.

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Speaker 3: There's also an enormous amount of hypocrisy here because they're

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Speaker 3: trying to offload responsibility for this malfeasance on prior administrations.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, you know, we just got sworn into office.

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Speaker 3: This isn't our administration's fault. Is the previous administration that

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Speaker 3: did that. And there's nothing that we can do to

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Speaker 3: fix about it. So, you know, we'll wash our hands

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Speaker 3: and do better in the future. But it begs the question,

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Speaker 3: at what point are our elected leaders to be held

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Speaker 3: accountable for what's going on with our money?

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Speaker 1: Well, and if you actually follow the train of people

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Speaker 1: that are associates through this, it's not necessarily a new

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Speaker 1: group of players. It's just a different group of players

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Speaker 1: with different titles. Jim Love is our guest. He is

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Speaker 1: with the Bunecatty Preservation Group. Fabulous new piece out in

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Speaker 1: the Indiana Capitol Chronicle about the IEDC about what has

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Speaker 1: gone on.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that came out. And I'm sure

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Speaker 2: you're much more on this than I am, and I was.

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Speaker 2: I think I was low on that one. I said

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Speaker 2: four hundred it's close to five hundred million of public money,

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Speaker 2: most of it public money went into this leap district,

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Speaker 2: this mega development in Boon County. You live out there.

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Speaker 2: What are you guys getting as a result of this?

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Speaker 2: What are I guess most importantly, what are we getting

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Speaker 2: because we're it seems like we're paying the tab as

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Speaker 2: a state, but I don't understand what the return on

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Speaker 2: investment is, do you know?

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Speaker 1: Well, so we provide a spot for Eelay Lily to

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Speaker 1: come up and build their facility, which is probably going

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Speaker 1: to bring some jobs. Looks like it definitely will. And

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Speaker 1: then the latest thing now is I believe what we're

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Speaker 1: trying to do is we're trying to burn ground to

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Speaker 1: get it off IEDC's books. So we've invited Meta to

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Speaker 1: come up and burn an enormous amount of electricity which

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Speaker 1: we did not have, and consume a bunch of water.

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Speaker 1: And before we leave today, we need to visit about

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Speaker 1: that water. All the water is going to be the

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Speaker 1: problem that Central Indiana will have into the future.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about that. But real quick, I want you

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Speaker 2: to remind everybody because you on this program multiple times before,

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Speaker 2: but how IEDC went about this? Where and then you

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Speaker 2: can go into some detail this. They basically went to

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Speaker 2: your fellow farmers and they said, hey, where the you

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Speaker 2: talked about being the government when they want to be

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Speaker 2: the government, we're the government. You don't technically have to

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Speaker 2: sell to us, but you're gonna end up losing in

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Speaker 2: the end anyway. So you can either fight us or

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Speaker 2: you can take this very large premium we're willing to

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Speaker 2: pay for your ground. Either way, it's you're going to

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Speaker 2: end up, you're going to end up in the same position.

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Speaker 2: You might as well just make it easy on yourself. Basically, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they basically said, hey, good luck. You can either fight

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Speaker 2: us or you can go with us. But the interesting

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Speaker 2: thing about this is these large sums of money that

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Speaker 2: they're paying for this land compared to the amount of

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Speaker 2: money that these people are spending to build these facilities,

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Speaker 2: the cost of land is inconsequential, and so that's why

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Speaker 2: they can come in and wield a big stick, and

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Speaker 2: the numbers are enormous, and they make the people that

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Speaker 2: have had land very powerful out purchasing land in the

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Speaker 2: secondary landmarket. However, to the project, it's just such an

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Speaker 2: insignificant part of it. So yeah, they've come in, they've

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Speaker 2: put the land package together through secrecy, and they made

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Speaker 2: people sign NDA's which was foolish that people even were

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Speaker 2: willing to do that, because you should be able to

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Speaker 2: talk to your neighbors about what you're doing. But they

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Speaker 2: forced people to do that.

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Speaker 1: So they've got all this ground put together and so

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Speaker 1: now it's under contract for purchase agreement. And I really

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Speaker 1: believe that what they're trying to do is they're trying

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Speaker 1: to get it off their books. So instead of building

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Speaker 1: this stuff compressed, they're building this stuff in a real

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Speaker 1: spread out fashion.

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Speaker 2: So tell us about the water issue, because there's two

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Speaker 2: major I mean, look, there's the money that's been spent,

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Speaker 2: and then there's the farm crownd that's gobbled up. But

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Speaker 2: the big concern is the lack of water and the

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Speaker 2: power issue. And the water I think the last time

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Speaker 2: we talked to you, there was this huge controversy about

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Speaker 2: where they're going to get the water from. They were

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Speaker 2: trying to get it out of typical New County, typical

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Speaker 2: New counties fighting back. What's going on with that?

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Speaker 1: So the current savior for water is going to be

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Speaker 1: citizens Energy and the plan is and this should do

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Speaker 1: you have any listeners in the Hamilton County area? Oh,

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Speaker 1: we got a couple. That's what we always told, nobody's listening.

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Speaker 1: But then we see fifty thousand people that they are listening. Well,

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Speaker 1: somewhere in between zero and fifty thousand, Jim take a

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Speaker 1: shot at it. Well, here's something that those folks should

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Speaker 1: be concerned with. So they're going to bring twenty five

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Speaker 1: million gallons of water from the east. Well, where is

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Speaker 1: extra water in the east in Indiana? I mean, you

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Speaker 1: look at the growth of Indiana, it's in the east.

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Speaker 1: And the gentleman that we were at a meeting one

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Speaker 1: night that had ran Westfield's water plant said that what

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Speaker 1: they do over there is they keep punching wells down

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Speaker 1: in the White River aquifer, and when one municipality's well

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Speaker 1: goes dry, they punch a deeper one and screw the

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Speaker 1: rest of them. So if you live in any of

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Speaker 1: those areas and you're wondering, how do they have extra

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Speaker 1: waters send to us, that's anybody's mystery. Because now we've

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Speaker 1: got a data center that's going to need five million

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Speaker 1: gallons of water and we and it's just not there.

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Speaker 1: We're also going to use ten times the highest rate

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Speaker 1: that our local utility has ever used in a day.

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Speaker 1: The Meta facility will use ten x that rate, having

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Speaker 1: to build new power lines, which will ultimately end up

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Speaker 1: in rate payers pockets somehow.

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Speaker 3: And you know, it's also a shame you mentioned on

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Speaker 3: the amount of farmland that's getting gobbled up by these

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Speaker 3: concrete megastructures, because once you have put those concrete foundations

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Speaker 3: deep into the earth, it's often not financially feasible to

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Speaker 3: return that to arable farm land because it's going to

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Speaker 3: require millions of dollars of remediation to take all the

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Speaker 3: foundation and the concrete and the gravel and the things

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Speaker 3: out of the soil just to get it back. So

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Speaker 3: once it's gobbled up, it's gone essentially, and that's just

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Speaker 3: for an agricultural state like Indiana.

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Speaker 1: It's a crying shame. Yeah, you can never return that

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Speaker 1: ground back. If you watch what's going on in these

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Speaker 1: building the ground is so good where we're at that

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Speaker 1: they are having to use lime to lime stabilize it.

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Speaker 1: And the amount of lime they have pumped into the

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Speaker 1: ground to try to firm up this ground so that

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Speaker 1: they can build these roads and a bunch of these

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Speaker 1: buildings is just incredible. And so yeah, that land is

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Speaker 1: never going to be brought back into production. It will

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Speaker 1: have to be into some kind of a commercial endeavor.

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Speaker 1: And definitely we'll get you out here with this, Jim. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I get called an old man who yells at clouds

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Speaker 1: quite a bit, right, But I like you. I'm young,

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Speaker 1: not as young as I used to be, but as

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Speaker 1: young as I'll ever be, right I because I see

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Speaker 1: this happen in my hometown, and I see this what's

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Speaker 1: happened to you guys. It makes me sad because fields

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Speaker 1: and farming. Not that I grew up on a farm

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Speaker 1: or was a farmer, but seeing and being around your friends,

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Speaker 1: your family, the people you grew you know, you grew

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Speaker 1: up with that that farming was, or people you consider

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Speaker 1: to be like your family. This is this was what

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Speaker 1: we were, what Central Indiana was, It's what you knew,

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Speaker 1: It's it's what you There was something great about it

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Speaker 1: and it's all gone now and it just seems like

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Speaker 1: it's these high density housing developments of a bunch of

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Speaker 1: people who in large part don't connect with the community

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Speaker 1: or don't have any tie to the history of the community,

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Speaker 1: or these megabuildings that are lifeless, that are dystopian, and

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Speaker 1: I just feel this go away and that goes It

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Speaker 1: just makes me feel so sad to see what's become

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Speaker 1: of it. Am I just am I totally up base.

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Speaker 2: I feel like with you, I have sort of a

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Speaker 2: kinship with that and the people that you are working

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Speaker 2: with to try to put a stop.

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Speaker 1: To some of this madness. It is sad because it

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Speaker 1: has been the tradition here. We were the largest industry

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Speaker 1: in the state of Indiana for years. But it even

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Speaker 1: goes deeper than that. Is folks. Now there seems to

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Speaker 1: be a big push to eat more natural, eat healthy things.

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Speaker 1: And the only way anybody knows how to do that

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Speaker 1: is by using this earth that we've been blessed with

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Speaker 1: and we've been given to be a steward of, and

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Speaker 1: it is growth. Crops, raise animals, do things to create

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Speaker 1: healthy food sources. And without that, nobody wants to eat

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Speaker 1: synthetic food, regardless of what some of the billionaires in

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Speaker 1: this country think would be a great idea. And nobody

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Speaker 1: really wants to eat crickets so that they as a

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Speaker 1: protein source. So if you want healthy food, we're going

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Speaker 1: to have to keep some of this farmland, and all

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Speaker 1: farm land is not equal. That's the other thing. There's

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Speaker 1: a great misconception because they say, well, just go to Nebraska,

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Speaker 1: just go to Kansas. Well, I get to travel a

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Speaker 1: lot of those areas and rest assured we can do

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Speaker 1: great things in Central Indiana without using additional water sources,

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Speaker 1: which is awesome. And grow good, healthy food to keep

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Speaker 1: feeding a hungry world.

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Speaker 2: Jim Love of the Boone County Preservation Group. Thanks for

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Speaker 2: the fight, my friend. Keep it up. Thanks Rob,