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Speaker 1: Live from Vaal Hartbeiner and the Crossroads of America. It's

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Speaker 1: Tony Katz today. I think with the sale of F

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Speaker 1: thirty five strike Fighter jets to Saudi Arabia from the

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Speaker 1: United States, the meeting that took place yesterday in the

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Speaker 1: White House with a President Trump and Mohammed Ben Salomon,

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Speaker 1: the Crown Prince, and more happening today, I think there

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Speaker 1: is a very acceptable question out there as to what

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Speaker 1: are we selling them, but maybe more importantly should we

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Speaker 1: be selling to Saudi Arabia. I'm not over what happened

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Speaker 1: on September eleventh. That's me speaking. I'm not speaking for you.

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Speaker 1: I'm speaking for myself. Tony Katz, Tony Kats today, Good

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Speaker 1: to be with you. Major Mike Lyons joins me right now.

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Speaker 1: United States Army major, retired military analyst, does a lot

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Speaker 1: of work with West Point and I live in the

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Speaker 1: real world, and I was explaining this yesterday on the

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Speaker 1: show that there are a lot of actors I don't

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Speaker 1: want to work with, but that doesn't mean you don't

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Speaker 1: work with them. And I actually think that the time

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Speaker 1: for retribution regarding September eleventh has long passed, and it

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Speaker 1: wasn't done as I see it properly then, But I'm

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Speaker 1: here now and Saudi Arabia as ally in agreement on

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Speaker 1: the Abraham Accords and pushing Iran and the Iranian regime

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Speaker 1: further and further into disbanding and nothingness and falling away,

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Speaker 1: creating a better Iran and a better future for the

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Speaker 1: Middle East. That's what's on the table. But let's start

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Speaker 1: where we start these F thirty five's. What can you

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Speaker 1: tell us about the major lions and how do we

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Speaker 1: feel about them going to Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 2: Well, Tony, I think clearly we have to always remember

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Speaker 2: what happened on September eleventh and go from there.

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Speaker 3: But this is a different Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 2: This is a different country right now with a different leader,

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Speaker 2: and now's the time to strike this deal with Saudi

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Speaker 2: Arabia in order to gain this additional leverage over Iran

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Speaker 2: and to really start to set forward a new path

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Speaker 2: for the Middle East. So what we know about the deal,

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Speaker 2: It looks like Saudi Arabia has requested forty eight F

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Speaker 2: thirty five's to go along with three hundred main battle

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Speaker 2: tanks Abram's battle tank, so it's not only airpower it's

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Speaker 2: going to be ground power. This is Trump leverage at play,

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Speaker 2: visible leverage right out there, aligning with a country that

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Speaker 2: had not had this level of firepower before. Let's talk

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Speaker 2: about the F thirty five real quick. We'll talk more

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Speaker 2: about it. But this is not just a plane, This

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Speaker 2: is an ecosystem, and this is a next generation fighter

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Speaker 2: that will definitely took the power of balance in the

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Speaker 2: Middle East towards Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 1: You know, the F thirty five has been a big

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Speaker 1: part of conversation because not only is it this incredible

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Speaker 1: bit of hardware, this was built with a lot of

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Speaker 1: NATO partners at play, including Turkey, and then Turkey turned

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Speaker 1: around and purchased the SU four hundred missile defense system,

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Speaker 1: which is a Russian defense system which bills itself as

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Speaker 1: an F thirty five killer. And this is a real problem.

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Speaker 1: But keeping it on Saudi Arabia, just quickly, you brought

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Speaker 1: up the Abrams tanks. Saudi Arabia can't roll tanks into

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Speaker 1: a place like Iran. For what purpose do they need

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Speaker 1: Abrams tanks?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think they're always concerned about their birdies at rock.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps in the southern portion with with the Yemen there,

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Speaker 2: but they project power. There's no question that three hundred

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Speaker 2: Abrams tanks, it's about a division's worth of that kind

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Speaker 2: of hardware would make Cutter Arabia virtually inoculous to any

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Speaker 2: kind of attack that would come on the ground. They

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Speaker 2: have a big playground, they have a big place in

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Speaker 2: sandbox out there to train and practice on those. So

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Speaker 2: they want to get that because it's the most advanced

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Speaker 2: land based projection of power that's that's in the world

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Speaker 2: right now. There's nothing in the world that can defeat

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Speaker 2: that Abrams tank. So I think I like the deal.

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Speaker 2: I like the fact that American hardware will go towards

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Speaker 2: that and so and what's going to provide is interoperatibility.

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Speaker 2: So should it happen, and we never thought we'd have

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Speaker 2: a desert storm or go back to Saudi Arabia like

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Speaker 2: we did in the nineties in the early part of

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Speaker 2: this century, but if we did, we now have interoperability

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Speaker 2: with US systems both on the F thirty fives and

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Speaker 2: the Abrams tank.

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Speaker 3: So I think I'm crazy about this deal. I think

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Speaker 3: it's a great thing.

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Speaker 1: Talking to Major Mike Lions, retired to United States Army

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Speaker 1: military analyst, You're crazy about the deal. So you're a yes.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of people are asking should we be

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Speaker 1: selling jets to Saudi Arabia. You started by saying, this

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Speaker 1: is a different Saudi Arabia. Walk me through your thinking.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're selling fighter jets obviously, but the interoperability of

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Speaker 2: these jets are just more than that. As they fly,

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Speaker 2: they collect data. They can provide data to us, to

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Speaker 2: the United States as we fly in that region as well.

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Speaker 2: They're meshed in communications networks, and I think that they'll

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Speaker 2: provide a moving intel post that we're always looking for

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Speaker 2: looking for on the ground, let's say, and that we've

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Speaker 2: had to move out and about the past few years.

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Speaker 2: I think that again they will be used as a

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Speaker 2: deterrent and leverage. We'll go back to Trump. It's all

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Speaker 2: about leverage with him, and in this case, it's showing

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Speaker 2: that leverage over the iraniance. Iran does not have a

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Speaker 2: partner that's going to provide this level of military hardware

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Speaker 2: to them.

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Speaker 3: That goes against it.

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Speaker 2: So from a way to preserve the peace and to

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Speaker 2: project power in the Middle East, there's no better platforms

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Speaker 2: than these two on the ground than the air.

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Speaker 1: You talk about projecting power and peace. This move because

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Speaker 1: a lot of this you know, hey, you were helpful

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Speaker 1: with some things regarding Iran. Of course, Saudi Arabia wants

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Speaker 1: Iran off the board there. They want to be the

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Speaker 1: hegemonic power in the area. Trump saying, we can make

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Speaker 1: that kind of happen, but you need to sign the

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Speaker 1: Abraham Accords. We need to change fundamentally. And then they

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Speaker 1: had a little bit of a back and forth at

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Speaker 1: the White House in the Oval yesterday where Mohammed bin

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Speaker 1: Saman said we need a two state solution and President

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Speaker 1: Trump definitely backed off the idea of it being a

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Speaker 1: two state solution and getting some of these other nations

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Speaker 1: involved in the rebuild of Gaza doesn't mean a two

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Speaker 1: state solution in the slightest. But this is all in

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Speaker 1: a larger sense about Trump realigning the Middle East. It

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Speaker 1: starts with the Abraham Accords, and it's here now is

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Speaker 1: what is the realignment goal? If you were to describe it.

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Speaker 2: Well, the realignment goal is more towards economic and economic

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Speaker 2: advancement of these countries that had been led by leaders

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Speaker 2: that didn't really care about its people. We project capitalism

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Speaker 2: on Syria, and to again think about the fact that

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Speaker 2: Syrian leaders in the White House last week unthinkable ten

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Speaker 2: or fifteen years ago. And now look where that's gone

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Speaker 2: and their potential participation in the Abraham Accords. And same

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Speaker 2: with Saudi Arabia. They can be the hegemonic power within

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Speaker 2: the region. They can be the on that that drives

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Speaker 2: business through given their economic advances.

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Speaker 3: And we we know Israel, and Israel just wants peace.

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Speaker 2: Israel is not looking to wage war and advance its

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Speaker 2: borders or anything like that. They want they want to

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Speaker 2: live in peace and prosperity. So that's that's this new

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Speaker 2: Middle East that that the Trump administration has carved out

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Speaker 2: right now, and it's it's moving down that path. And

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Speaker 2: sure there's risks sending military military equipment like this to

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Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia, mostly in the software side of it, because

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Speaker 2: again Saudi Arabia now will pick up Intel that perhaps

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Speaker 2: that they wouldn't have before because they don't have that capability.

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Speaker 2: The F thirty five is a is an Intel vacuum

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Speaker 2: machine and picks up things as it's flying through the skies.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: And and again we'll be working alongside with the US

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Speaker 2: forces in the area there as well. So there's there's

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Speaker 2: some risk when it comes to this when the leader's perspective.

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Speaker 2: But given the relationship that Trump is established with with NBS,

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Speaker 2: and given where Saudi Arabia is right now, this is

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Speaker 2: the time to strike when the fire is hot.

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Speaker 1: You know this. You brought up Syria, and it's weird this.

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Speaker 1: This is a guy who's a terrorist. I mean, America

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Speaker 1: was the enemy and all that, and now he's here

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Speaker 1: in a suit after the overthrowing of Basharlesad and he's

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Speaker 1: visiting the White House. And yet this has been greeted

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Speaker 1: with a great amount of applause. And so this idea

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Speaker 1: of realigning the Middle East, you know, when people are

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Speaker 1: upset with this is Saudi Arabia. This is responsible for

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Speaker 1: September eleventh, This is responsible for the murder of Jamal Kashogi.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not saying no to any of those things.

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Speaker 1: It is about dealing with the world as it is,

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Speaker 1: not as you may want it to be. And President Trump,

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Speaker 1: I would argue, does that very very well. The reception

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Speaker 1: that the new Syrian leadership has gotten, what is that?

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Speaker 1: How has that been seen on the world stage.

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Speaker 3: I think it's been seeing positive.

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Speaker 2: But you've described real politique exactly how it is. And

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Speaker 2: that's the United States, and this administration looks up the

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Speaker 2: world as the way it is and not previous administrations

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Speaker 2: trying to project the way they want it to be.

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Speaker 2: They want to tell other countries how they can talk

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Speaker 2: to their employees, They want to tell other countries about

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Speaker 2: human rights violations and the like. And it's not that's

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Speaker 2: not to say that we can't keep that in mind,

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Speaker 2: but we have to look at the world and the

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Speaker 2: where and where it is. So what do we want.

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Speaker 2: We want the Russians back inside of Syria. You want

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Speaker 2: a submarine base, a tartis, having them have a foothold

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Speaker 2: in the Mediterranean. You know we've not only is this

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Speaker 2: uh is going to project power over Iran, but it

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Speaker 2: will reject or will put Russia out of the Middle

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Speaker 2: East as well, lock them out completely, something that the

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Speaker 2: Obama administration allowed them back in. John Kerry allows them

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Speaker 2: back in when Obama refuses to go after them when

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Speaker 2: they crossed the multiple red lines with chemical weapons. So

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Speaker 2: this is this is realigning the Middle East towards US

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Speaker 2: interests as an oversight, as an over control.

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Speaker 3: Let's say that the umbrella for control.

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Speaker 2: But but returning power to the people in the legion

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Speaker 2: as to our our alliances to make sure that we

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Speaker 2: get what we want to get.

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Speaker 1: Talking to Major Mike Lyons, retired United States Army military analyst,

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Speaker 1: and and with Trump, as in so many things, it

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Speaker 1: is about the dollars, and this investment into into Gaza

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Speaker 1: is about a return, and it is about a guarantee

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Speaker 1: in some levels of safety. First off, you have trade partners,

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Speaker 1: You're you're not likely to attack them. That's very Milton

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Speaker 1: Friedman and it's in its concept, but it's also highly accurate.

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Speaker 1: I would argue, hi would it would? I would assume

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Speaker 1: agree with that. Maybe I've misread the man. But the

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Speaker 1: follow up here is who are we dealing with still

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Speaker 1: as the enemies, And this is of course Iran. You

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Speaker 1: take out Naton's, you take out Isfahan, you take out

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Speaker 1: four Doah, these nuclear facilities. You've engaged massive sanctions on

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Speaker 1: the nation so desperate that they're now trying to capture

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Speaker 1: and have captured at least one oil tanker through the

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Speaker 1: Straits of Hormus that was Marshall Islands flagged. We still

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Speaker 1: think of Iran as the threat in the region.

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Speaker 2: Well, we do from their capability perspective and their level

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Speaker 2: of intelligence, I mean, their culture. They have the wherewithal

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Speaker 2: to create the environment that would potentially threaten Israel again.

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Speaker 2: And you know what's happened to Iran in the past

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Speaker 2: two years and three years since really October seventh when

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Speaker 2: Hamas made that tremendous mistake by attacking Israel the way

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Speaker 2: they attacked, and where we are today and how the

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Speaker 2: entire proxy military for the Iranians has been destroyed and

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Speaker 2: Iran is so exposed right now and the fact that

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Speaker 2: we did take out their nuclear capability set that back.

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Speaker 2: The genie's out of the bottle on that. That's not

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Speaker 2: to say they won't potentially have this capability, but for

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Speaker 2: right now, for the near term five to ten years,

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Speaker 2: that's not going to happen. And so I think that

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Speaker 2: this is all all about these other countries then in

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Speaker 2: the Middle He's gaining an advantage over Iran and advancing

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Speaker 2: themselves and making sure that Iran stays in that box

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Speaker 2: as well as Russia. We don't want the Russians involved

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Speaker 2: with any Middle Eastern activities, and I think that this

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Speaker 2: is also part of that strategy.

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Speaker 1: So when does this strategy come to fruition, because it

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Speaker 1: would seem to me that the strategy is only successful

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Speaker 1: when the Ayatola is gone and the people of Iran

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Speaker 1: and say, you know what, we're actually Persia, that we're

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Speaker 1: we're not around We're Persian, We're Persians, and hey, who

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Speaker 1: wants to engage in trade. Isn't that the moment of success?

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Speaker 2: Well likely, sure, from a final perspective, But until then,

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Speaker 2: our foreign policy can be what it was back in

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Speaker 2: the eighties, and it's just containment and making sure. Same

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Speaker 2: with same with the Soviet Union back during the Cold Wars.

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Speaker 2: It's just containment, making sure that the Iranians are not

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Speaker 2: partnering with let's say the North Koreans and they taking

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Speaker 2: their nuclear capabilities, some of their missile capability, making sure

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Speaker 2: that Iran is not an exporter of terrorism and state

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Speaker 2: sponsoring groups and proxy armies that exist that once existed

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Speaker 2: inside of Syria and Iraq and having them attack Israel.

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Speaker 2: I mean the downside right now of Gaza is we

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Speaker 2: haven't seen Turkey or Indonesia. These countries had promised to

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Speaker 2: step up in order to provide some level of structure

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Speaker 2: for security. They haven't been involved. Nor of the Egyptians.

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Speaker 2: I still believe that Egypt is the indispensable partner here

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Speaker 2: in this to make it work. But until Hamas is

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Speaker 2: completely obliterated, which they don't seem to be, they still

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Speaker 2: control some ministries, they still control some arms, and until

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Speaker 2: those other Middle Eastern countries get involved, that mission's not

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Speaker 2: moving forward. Trump got the hostages out, and that's kind

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Speaker 2: of it for right now. But that's these fire still

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Speaker 2: hanging on a threat.

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Speaker 3: It's a big it.

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Speaker 1: It's a big it. Before I let you go, you

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Speaker 1: brought up Russia, and I don't think anything anywhere involving

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Speaker 1: the military doesn't involve a conversation about China. Is this

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Speaker 1: move solely about keeping the Russian influence out of the

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Speaker 1: Middle East? And how big can Russian influence be considering

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Speaker 1: that they're still in this ever loving morass with the Ukrainians.

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Speaker 2: You know, the point about China is really solid because

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Speaker 2: I think that's the secondary objective with every single foreign

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Speaker 2: policy projection that the Trump administration has done, keeping China

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Speaker 2: out of the Middle East. Trying to do now a

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Speaker 2: deal in Ukraine. I saw a report that's some kind

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Speaker 2: of twenty eight point plan. I think that's way too much,

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Speaker 2: but to try to settle that situation with the China

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Speaker 2: in the background. And clearly we're projecting power in the

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Speaker 2: Caribbean because we don't want China involvement with Venezuela and

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Speaker 2: the likes.

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Speaker 1: So you see you see the USS gerald Ford, the

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Speaker 1: largest aircraft carrier we have in the Caribbean. You see

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Speaker 1: these other assets coming the designation of Maduro as a

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Speaker 1: narco terrorist organization, these drugs as a way of thwarting

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Speaker 1: China because they I've been spending crazy cash and trying

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Speaker 1: to build out South America.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's exactly right, and we're reestablishing our footprint in

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Speaker 2: the southern part of the hemisphere as part of the

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Speaker 2: Monroe doctrine. And shouldn't surprise anybody. We shouldn't have to

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Speaker 2: send a carrier group to the Caribbean to project power.

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Speaker 2: But this is how this administration talks, this is how

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Speaker 2: they gain leverage. And perhaps Maduro will change his behavior.

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Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think we have to always

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Speaker 2: be careful with regime change. It doesn't always go the

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Speaker 2: way we want it to go. And clearly we have

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Speaker 2: a supply chain issue coming from Columbia with their cocaine

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Speaker 2: twenty five hundred metric tons a year.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't come on those speedboats.

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Speaker 2: It comes mostly over land, gets to Mexico combined with fentanyl,

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Speaker 2: and that's what the Trump administration is trying to fight.

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Speaker 2: But right now, the leverage they're projecting is visible leverage

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Speaker 2: on what's happening right now and with every secondary mission

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Speaker 2: is to project power against the Chinese to say, don't

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Speaker 2: even think about it.

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Speaker 1: Major Mike Lyons, retired Nited States Army military analyst. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate you being with us. More to come. I'm Tony Katz.

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Speaker 1: This is Tony Katz today