1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:05,840
Speaker 1: So the Washington Post has done a big investigation and

2
00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,440
Speaker 1: they are revealing what they claim are details on the

3
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:13,640
Speaker 1: final years of the life of former Colts owner Jim Ersay,

4
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,279
Speaker 1: who died in May at the age of sixty five.

5
00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,120
Speaker 1: It's not good, Casey, but I don't think we are

6
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:25,520
Speaker 1: at all surprised by what we're learning in this report

7
00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,120
Speaker 1: and WIBC Ryan Hedrick will join us momentarily has a

8
00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,400
Speaker 1: big post up at WIBC dot com if you want

9
00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,159
Speaker 1: to want to read it. According to Ryan's reporting the

10
00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,800
Speaker 1: Washington Post, as Ersa was working with a doctor in

11
00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,240
Speaker 1: California who prescribed him strong medications. He started with opioids

12
00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,880
Speaker 1: and later kedemy. Now that's what killed Matthew Perry, Is

13
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,440
Speaker 1: that right? The friend star in doses that made friends

14
00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,559
Speaker 1: and family orri Some people told the Post they saw

15
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,199
Speaker 1: him taking pills, and another said they watched him get

16
00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,000
Speaker 1: ketamine shots. So when you factor in, and we'll bring

17
00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,480
Speaker 1: Ryan in here in just a second, when you factor

18
00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,360
Speaker 1: in the fact that what he almost passed away, what

19
00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,680
Speaker 1: it was that a couple of years ago now and

20
00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:06,160
Speaker 1: there was well, there were.

21
00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,400
Speaker 2: Reports back in early twenty four that he had overdosed

22
00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:11,080
Speaker 2: on opioids.

23
00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, because at well at one point, remember the nine

24
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,039
Speaker 1: one one came to his house, right, they had to

25
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 1: sustate him. He was allegedly blue. And look, I don't

26
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,080
Speaker 1: think this surprises anyone because this guy had this issue

27
00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 1: throughout much of his life. And I just like, I

28
00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,560
Speaker 1: feel horrible for the guy on one hand, but then

29
00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 1: on the other hand, and this is what I and

30
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,919
Speaker 1: then we'll bring Ryan in. This is my editorial comment

31
00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:42,039
Speaker 1: on this. We as taxpayers, invested a billion dollars or

32
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,039
Speaker 1: more when you put interest into that stadium, and he

33
00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,120
Speaker 1: is the CEO or was the CEO of the company

34
00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,840
Speaker 1: that we invested in. Not only are we paying for

35
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:56,400
Speaker 1: that stadium, but we gave massive giveaways to Jim Orsay

36
00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,160
Speaker 1: and the Ursa family. And is there any other company

37
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,200
Speaker 1: if we knew the CEO behaved in the manner that

38
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:05,720
Speaker 1: this guy was behaving. And look, I hate that he

39
00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,560
Speaker 1: had these addictions and I hate that he couldn't get

40
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,240
Speaker 1: it under control. But people would be outraged if public

41
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,239
Speaker 1: money was going to invest in a company in which

42
00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,800
Speaker 1: the head of that company to face the owner, behaved

43
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,680
Speaker 1: in the manner in which this guy did. But for

44
00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,600
Speaker 1: some reason, every time we bring this up, we're the guy.

45
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:23,079
Speaker 1: We're the bad guy for pointing this out.

46
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 2: I would just like to say we were made to

47
00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:27,639
Speaker 2: invest as taxpayers.

48
00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:28,040
Speaker 1: That's right.

49
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:29,320
Speaker 2: Wasn't our choice to do it?

50
00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:29,919
Speaker 1: All right?

51
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:30,000
Speaker 2: So?

52
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,520
Speaker 1: Ryan Headrick from the WIBC Newsroom joins us now. He

53
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,880
Speaker 1: wrote the story over at WIBC dot com. He also

54
00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:39,640
Speaker 1: is the cost of the Supporting Sobriety podcast. Ryan, is

55
00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,280
Speaker 1: this this didn't surprise you? Right? I mean, you spend

56
00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,960
Speaker 1: your days now obviously your your claim sober have been

57
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,200
Speaker 1: for a long time, but you deal with and communicate

58
00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,000
Speaker 1: with people who are still in the throes of addiction.

59
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,120
Speaker 1: Did this surprise you at all? To learn?

60
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,079
Speaker 3: It doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is the level

61
00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 3: of cover ups, in the amount of people that will

62
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 3: actually cover up the behavior by the addict. When you

63
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,920
Speaker 3: look at Jim Mersey's death, the timeline may have twenty

64
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,400
Speaker 3: five in Beverly Hills, he owed 's in Beverly Hills,

65
00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,960
Speaker 3: or some people think he overdoses in Beverly Hills. No

66
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,880
Speaker 3: suspicion of that. I'm sorry, let me retract that. But

67
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,880
Speaker 3: the doctors that worked with him in California didn't have

68
00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,600
Speaker 3: any checks and balances for ersay, and that's the real

69
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,360
Speaker 3: story here. If you're rich and powerful, you have unfettered

70
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,080
Speaker 3: access to doctors who will prescribe you and look the

71
00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,680
Speaker 3: other way. I mean California's system as a history of this,

72
00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,240
Speaker 3: going back to Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson's doctor killed him

73
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,720
Speaker 3: and went on trial for reckless homicides. So again, Beverly

74
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,760
Speaker 3: Hills police say no evidence of an overdose. But the

75
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,200
Speaker 3: revelation in this reporting is five overdoses, two in Carmel,

76
00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,320
Speaker 3: one in turks and Keikos one in Miami. It just

77
00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,280
Speaker 3: went on and on and on, and the team, according

78
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,080
Speaker 3: to the Post, covered this stuff up even though we

79
00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,480
Speaker 3: knew something was wrong on the surface.

80
00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,480
Speaker 1: Well yeah, right, I mean you go back, like I said,

81
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 1: all this stuff with r say, just you know, it's

82
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,240
Speaker 1: so so chaotic because there seems to be so many things.

83
00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,160
Speaker 1: But like it was like the nine one one comes

84
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,320
Speaker 1: to his house, they've got to revive him allegedly narkon. Yeah,

85
00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:17,920
Speaker 1: he's blue.

86
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,200
Speaker 2: It's like December of twenty three and the.

87
00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:21,159
Speaker 1: Story just like went away.

88
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. And by the way, I just want to put

89
00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,240
Speaker 3: this out there. This is not this is not me

90
00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 3: editorializing this This appearance on your show called NARKN is

91
00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,800
Speaker 3: not recovery. NARKN is what they call it's preventative, and

92
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:42,000
Speaker 3: it destroys people's lives. Noloxone is an opiate blocker that

93
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,920
Speaker 3: if you're overdosing on heroin or any other opiate, will

94
00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,240
Speaker 3: will take the overdose effects away and bring you back

95
00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 3: to life. It gives people and I really hate that

96
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,920
Speaker 3: this even has to be a conversation that's grouped in

97
00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:59,720
Speaker 3: to recovery. This gives people an opportunity to continue using

98
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,200
Speaker 3: drug uggs again and again and again. I have a

99
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,800
Speaker 3: friend at IMPD says he narcans somebody six times on

100
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,039
Speaker 3: one shift two months.

101
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,119
Speaker 1: Ago, the same guy, and this guy kept using.

102
00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 3: He narcanned him twice on one call, three times on

103
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,520
Speaker 3: another call, one time on another call, and at the

104
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 3: end of the night he was still using. This stuff

105
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:20,960
Speaker 3: is not good.

106
00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,839
Speaker 1: So what is the answer to this, Because obviously you

107
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:31,360
Speaker 1: have successfully turned your life around, Matt Behar has successfully

108
00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,080
Speaker 1: turned his life round. You lay these things out in

109
00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:39,680
Speaker 1: the Supporting Sobriety podcast. Is it will like, why is

110
00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,479
Speaker 1: it that a guy like you can do this but

111
00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,840
Speaker 1: someone like him who has far more resources and access

112
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,760
Speaker 1: to medical care, etc. Than you do. Couldn't get it done.

113
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,279
Speaker 1: Why do people fail at this?

114
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,080
Speaker 3: So here's why I reached out to you to come

115
00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,640
Speaker 3: on the show today, because this is about destigmatizing addictions.

116
00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 3: So when we don't confront addiction for what it is,

117
00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,280
Speaker 3: I mean this stuff, this disease of addiction kills people.

118
00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,599
Speaker 3: We're losing four people a day in Indianapolis. The Colts

119
00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,200
Speaker 3: haven't been upfront with this at all. The answer to

120
00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,800
Speaker 3: your question is we need to talk about this and

121
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,640
Speaker 3: meet this head on. We need not to be ashamed

122
00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,839
Speaker 3: of it. We need to talk about it for what

123
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,839
Speaker 3: it is. If people can really buy in, I think

124
00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,040
Speaker 3: this is the disconnect from the public. If people can

125
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,880
Speaker 3: buy in to the fact that addiction is a disease.

126
00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,200
Speaker 3: And here's why I say it's a disease. It is

127
00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:35,120
Speaker 3: progressive and curable and fatal, just like cancer, just like

128
00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,360
Speaker 3: any other fatal disease that you might be diagnosed with

129
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,120
Speaker 3: if you don't treat it like Jim Orsay didn't treat it.

130
00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,520
Speaker 3: He didn't take recovery seriously because somebody in his ear,

131
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,080
Speaker 3: or his disease or his ego told him that he

132
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,280
Speaker 3: could keep going and use successfully and you can't.

133
00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 2: Do you think that the ketamine was being used to

134
00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:57,360
Speaker 2: help treat him.

135
00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,640
Speaker 3: I think ketamine was being used to offset the effects

136
00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:03,800
Speaker 3: of other drugs. I will tell you this. I was

137
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,200
Speaker 3: doing methanphetamine in the nineties and my drug dealer thought

138
00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,240
Speaker 3: I was getting too high and wanted me out of

139
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,800
Speaker 3: his house. He fed me ketamine to bring me down

140
00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,920
Speaker 3: from the methan fhetamine. But what that ended up doing

141
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,520
Speaker 3: is I collapsed. I almost died that night because the

142
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,480
Speaker 3: factors in ketamine. You can't mix stimulants and opiates. They

143
00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,640
Speaker 3: just they don't mix well, and if you do too much,

144
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,560
Speaker 3: you'll die. So I think that he was using one

145
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,520
Speaker 3: to offset another. Addicts don't know the difference between drugs

146
00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,960
Speaker 3: prescribed by a doctor and drugs that we take illegally

147
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,720
Speaker 3: on the street. So once we start playing a chemist,

148
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:45,720
Speaker 3: that's when the danger comes in.

149
00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,360
Speaker 1: Ryan Headrick is our guest from the WIBC newsroom. He

150
00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 1: has a new piece out at WIBC dot com related

151
00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 1: to this Washington Post investigation into the death of Jim Ursay.

152
00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:58,720
Speaker 1: You said something last time you were with us. We're

153
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,200
Speaker 1: talking about Joe Hawg set in the and you said,

154
00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 1: Joe Hawgs, it runs the city the way I ran

155
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,560
Speaker 1: my life in the throes of addiction. Kind of the

156
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,480
Speaker 1: same thing with Ersay. This team has been, especially post

157
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,680
Speaker 1: Andrew Luck, just constant turmoil and chaos, and I do

158
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,720
Speaker 1: wonder if these personal issues had anything to do with that.

159
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not a sports expert. I'll leave that up

160
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,200
Speaker 3: to the fan into John Herricudo's sports professionally, but I

161
00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:30,480
Speaker 3: will say this, Okay, addiction behavior of using addicts, you

162
00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,200
Speaker 3: just can't hide. Jim Orsay mismanaged the team. He would

163
00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,760
Speaker 3: go on TV and make wild accusations, he would deny

164
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:43,080
Speaker 3: his addiction, and you could not deny Jim Ursay's behavior.

165
00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,080
Speaker 3: In fact, the team sent a statement out to a

166
00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,120
Speaker 3: local TV station today saying that, look, we know that

167
00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:55,040
Speaker 3: he suffered with addiction. However he met it head on.

168
00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,200
Speaker 3: I don't think he did. I don't think he ever

169
00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,720
Speaker 3: dealt with that, and I could think you can see

170
00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:01,960
Speaker 3: that in his mannerisms and the way he walked, in

171
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,960
Speaker 3: the way he talked, and obviously it really showed up

172
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,320
Speaker 3: physically when he was in that wheelchair, he looked awful.

173
00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,720
Speaker 1: How do you know if you're an addict, Like, how

174
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,600
Speaker 1: do you know you're just a because some people, yeah

175
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 1: they drink too much, right, but they can stop. They

176
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,800
Speaker 1: you know, they do like they do stuff. How do

177
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,160
Speaker 1: you how do you even know? Like if I'm just

178
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,480
Speaker 1: somebody who making bad choices or I've got a serious problem.

179
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:29,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, because obsessive and compulsive factors lead you to be unmanageable.

180
00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,280
Speaker 3: And only one, only you can actually determine whether you're

181
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,280
Speaker 3: an addict. That is a personal conversation that you have

182
00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,160
Speaker 3: to have with God and with somebody in recovery. But

183
00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,559
Speaker 3: you would know if you're an addict, if you just

184
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,880
Speaker 3: whatever you're doing, you're never satisfied, you're never filled up,

185
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,600
Speaker 3: you just can't get enough, And especially if those behaviors

186
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 3: are making your life both inner and outward unmanageable, like

187
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,440
Speaker 3: like how you feel about others, how you feel about yourself,

188
00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,640
Speaker 3: and then of course what you do. Are you not

189
00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,560
Speaker 3: paying bills, or you're not going to work, or you're

190
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,080
Speaker 3: beating your spouse or you're getting arrested. Those are outward signs.

191
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:10,439
Speaker 3: The inner signs of unmanageability, low self esteem, self hatred,

192
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:15,040
Speaker 3: rebellion against authority, rebellion at work, can't keep a job.

193
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,040
Speaker 3: Those are the factors inside that sometimes people can't see outwardly.

194
00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:20,120
Speaker 3: If that makes sense.

195
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,080
Speaker 1: Heabyay, go ahead, good.

196
00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,000
Speaker 2: I just wanted to ask you how common is it

197
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,440
Speaker 2: for someone who's in long term recovery to have a relapse.

198
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 3: Uh, it's common if they stop working the program. I

199
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,120
Speaker 3: was texting with one of our bosses and I said,

200
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,720
Speaker 3: what we say in my twelve step program is you're

201
00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,200
Speaker 3: either working on a recovery or you're working on relapse.

202
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,520
Speaker 3: There's no in between. Because one thing that people don't

203
00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,600
Speaker 3: get about recovery is it's progressive. If you don't work

204
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,720
Speaker 3: on your recovery, your disease will work on you. And

205
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,400
Speaker 3: that's why there's twelve steps, and you're encouraged to write

206
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,040
Speaker 3: and practice the twelve steps in every area of your

207
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 3: life because addicts, for people using drugs that have stopped,

208
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:04,080
Speaker 3: it's an abnormal state. For people like me not using drugs,

209
00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,320
Speaker 3: as abnormals get I want to get high all the time. Later, Yeah,

210
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,520
Speaker 3: I just don't. I was triggered the other day driving

211
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,880
Speaker 3: down the street seeing people doing open air drug sales

212
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,480
Speaker 3: in the homeless camp I was covering. But that's when

213
00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 3: I need to call a sponsor, or tell my wife,

214
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,040
Speaker 3: or go to a meeting or tell somebody about it.

215
00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,520
Speaker 3: I'm telling you, addiction does not discriminate. This is why

216
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:27,480
Speaker 3: this ARSA story is so big.

217
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,559
Speaker 2: I just got one more question for you, and then

218
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,319
Speaker 2: Nikki Kelly from the Indiana Capitol Chronicle is going to

219
00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,320
Speaker 2: join us. What do you think that this does to

220
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,600
Speaker 2: the Kicking the Stigma campaign that the Colts have.

221
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,680
Speaker 3: I think the Colts would be wise to come out

222
00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,120
Speaker 3: with the public statement about this. I think they need

223
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:45,960
Speaker 3: to meet it head on. I don't think it does

224
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,800
Speaker 3: anything to the campaign. In fact, I think if they

225
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,360
Speaker 3: play this right, they can strengthen the campaign and just

226
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,080
Speaker 3: admit to his overdose is let us know what we

227
00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,000
Speaker 3: already know. Build the trust back up that stigmas are

228
00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,920
Speaker 3: and stigmas are are cast in public for a reason

229
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,240
Speaker 3: because when people don't deal with obvious signs, that's when

230
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,560
Speaker 3: addiction is stigmatized. So this could go one of two ways.

231
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,960
Speaker 3: The kicking the Stigma campaign is great for people, but

232
00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,360
Speaker 3: I think a little honesty would go a long way

233
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,959
Speaker 3: in building the public's trust back in there backing and

234
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,679
Speaker 3: the kicking the stigma campaign.

235
00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,439
Speaker 1: Ryan Hendrick from the WIBC newsroom and the supporting Sobriety podcast.

236
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks guys,