WEBVTT - Tony Katz & Phil Magness on Dr. Fauci's Diary & the Great Barrington Declaration

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<v Speaker 1>Live from vall Hartbeiner and the Crossroads of America. It's

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<v Speaker 1>Tony Katz today. The vast majority of people in America

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<v Speaker 1>know nothing about the Great Barrington Declaration. And the reason

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<v Speaker 1>they don't know about it is because, well, it didn't

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<v Speaker 1>get much play. Oh it was outrageously important. It was

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<v Speaker 1>doctors and health professionals and scientists saying, you know what

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<v Speaker 1>we're doing regarding COVID. This was in the middle of COVID,

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<v Speaker 1>in the heat of COVID. This is not in any

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<v Speaker 1>way smart or proper or good. This is a horrible

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<v Speaker 1>way to go about things. We don't know what doctor

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<v Speaker 1>Fauci or doctor Berks or any of these other people

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<v Speaker 1>pretend that they are doing, but they're gonna hurt a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people. There's a better way to do this.

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<v Speaker 1>And as you know, and I know, and we know,

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<v Speaker 1>many of those messages got silenced, whether it be from

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<v Speaker 1>some of the leading doctors and scientists and health professionals,

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<v Speaker 1>or whether it be you asking a basi of question

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<v Speaker 1>on social media. Tony Cats Tony Katz today, good to

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<v Speaker 1>be with you. Well. In the treasure Trove of Things,

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<v Speaker 1>the Senator Ran Paul released from the diary of Anthony Fauci,

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Anthony Fauci emails, etc. Was this notification? You can

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<v Speaker 1>find it. I've got it over at tonykats dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>This email that Fauci sent to doctor Deborah Burks, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the one who wears the scarves, asking her to come

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<v Speaker 1>out against the Great Barrington Declaration. Phil Magnus joins me

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<v Speaker 1>right now. His work is at the Independent Institute, where

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<v Speaker 1>he is a Senior Fellow and the David J. Threau

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<v Speaker 1>Chair in Political Economy. He also works with the American

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<v Speaker 1>Institute for Economic Research, where he was formerly the fa

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<v Speaker 1>Hiak Chair in Economics at Economic History, which means he

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<v Speaker 1>knows a lot of things that we don't, which is

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<v Speaker 1>good because this does have a lot of economic connotations

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<v Speaker 1>to it. He is also the author of the sixteen

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen project Myth and Cracks in the Ivory Tower The

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<v Speaker 1>Moral Mess of Higher Education, both of which touch on

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<v Speaker 1>the concept of what it is we are told versus

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<v Speaker 1>what it is that is. Phil Magnus, thanks for taking

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<v Speaker 1>the time. I appreciate it. You got a heck of

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<v Speaker 1>a resume there. But I want to discuss the Great

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<v Speaker 1>Barrington Declaration. Let's start where we start, which is what

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<v Speaker 1>is the Great Barrington Declaration.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely so, I was one of a very small number

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<v Speaker 2>of people that was actually in the room when the

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<v Speaker 2>thing was signed in October twenty twenty. And this was

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<v Speaker 2>a document basically challenging the idea that lockdowns were the

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<v Speaker 2>way to deal with the pandemic, that pointed out that

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<v Speaker 2>lockdowns not only were on a very swim evidentiary basis

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't work, but on top of that, they cost

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<v Speaker 2>all sorts of social harms, economic harms. They put people

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<v Speaker 2>out of work, caused mental health issues, kept kids out

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<v Speaker 2>of schools. And this was a document that came together

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<v Speaker 2>during the second wave of COVID. If you remember, in

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<v Speaker 2>fall twenty twenty, the cases were ticking up again and

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<v Speaker 2>all of the people who had locked us down back

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<v Speaker 2>in the spring started revisiting those ideas, and in some

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<v Speaker 2>cases many states and many countries are in the world,

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<v Speaker 2>they did re enact lockdowns again in the fall of

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty. But what happened is we got a group

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<v Speaker 2>of scientists together, and this was Jay Bodicheria, who's now

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<v Speaker 2>Fauci's replacement boss figure at the NIH. Donald Trump appointed

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<v Speaker 2>him in part because of his reputation entered this Martin

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<v Speaker 2>Koldorf of Harvard at the time, and sinetra gup To

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<v Speaker 2>of Oxford. So three physicians came together, we held a

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<v Speaker 2>conference on the case against lockdowns, and they articulated those

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<v Speaker 2>principles in a short to sake summary statement to challenge

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<v Speaker 2>the return of this policy that Sugi and Burks and

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<v Speaker 2>some of the other figures in the so called public

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<v Speaker 2>health establishment were pushing at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the things the Great Barrington Declaration states, and

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<v Speaker 1>Great Barrington is where air is located. Correct, that's the

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<v Speaker 1>specific town that it's in. It reads coming from both

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<v Speaker 1>the left and right, and around the world. We have

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<v Speaker 1>devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are

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<v Speaker 1>producing devastating effects on short and long term public health.

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<v Speaker 1>The result, to name a few, include lower childhood vaccination

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<v Speaker 1>rates worse than cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings, and

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<v Speaker 1>deteriorating mental health lead into greater excess mortality in years

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<v Speaker 1>to come, with the working class in younger members of

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<v Speaker 1>society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school

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<v Speaker 1>is a grave injustice. When we think of the time

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<v Speaker 1>October twenty twenty. As you're describing it, sir, this was

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<v Speaker 1>a very near radical thing to say everything we're hearing

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<v Speaker 1>from on high is wrong. It's a danger. Let us

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<v Speaker 1>say so it gets signed. What was the reaction and

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<v Speaker 1>the response to the Great Barrington Declaration.

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<v Speaker 2>Initially it was very positive. It kind of went viral

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<v Speaker 2>on the internet, got picked up in some major news

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<v Speaker 2>media sources. I think the Wall Street Journal covered it.

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<v Speaker 2>Fox News picked it up, and they pointed out that

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<v Speaker 2>this says, finally somebody is challenging Anthony Fauci and this

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<v Speaker 2>policy that he has been pushing for several months now

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't seem to be working, doesn't seem to be

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<v Speaker 2>addressing the pandemic, and oh, by the way, it has

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<v Speaker 2>all these other costs and consequences. So that was the

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<v Speaker 2>initial reactions, generally positive, kind of recognizing, hey, we could

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<v Speaker 2>finally have the scientific debate we were denied in the spring.

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<v Speaker 2>And then all of a sudden, this is probably about

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<v Speaker 2>three or four days after the decoration was signed, the

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<v Speaker 2>media turned outright hostile against it, attacks on the authors,

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<v Speaker 2>calling them frings epidemiologists. We got deboosted on the Google links,

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<v Speaker 2>Google searches, from it. It used to appear on the

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<v Speaker 2>top page along with news media coverage of it, and

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<v Speaker 2>then suddenly, all of a sudden, it's on page four

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<v Speaker 2>behind crazy conspiracy blogs announcing the Great bearings and declarations

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<v Speaker 2>going to kill us. All so very rapid switch in

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<v Speaker 2>the public discussion around it, and it was kind of

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<v Speaker 2>mystifying at the time of why that had happened, because

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<v Speaker 2>all we were asking for was a public debate over

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<v Speaker 2>the science, a public debate over whether lockdowns actually did

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<v Speaker 2>what they promised to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Talking to Phil Magnus, Senior Fellow at the Independent Institute,

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<v Speaker 1>David J. Throw Chair and Political Economy, and his work

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<v Speaker 1>with Aier the American Institute for Economic Research, where he

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<v Speaker 1>was formerly the Fa Hyak Chair in Economics and Economic History,

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<v Speaker 1>and we can certainly tie in a lot of what

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<v Speaker 1>we saw in the COVID days to what we have

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<v Speaker 1>seen in economic reality today. But there's also an economic

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<v Speaker 1>reality of what we have done to generations and what

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<v Speaker 1>it is we were doing in trying to from other

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<v Speaker 1>groups silencing this kind of talk you talk about, all

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<v Speaker 1>of a sudden it was removed from search engines, etc.

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<v Speaker 1>This brings us to this email that doctor Fauci sent

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<v Speaker 1>out to Deborah Burks saying, so, just a heads up.

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<v Speaker 1>Over the past week, I've come out very strongly publicly

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<v Speaker 1>against the Great Barrington A declaration. This was from October sixteenth,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty, and asking her to do the same. To

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<v Speaker 1>come out against this. In a world of so called

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<v Speaker 1>science people can be hey, I disagree. What was it

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<v Speaker 1>like for him to come out against it? How did

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<v Speaker 1>that play out?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we found out after the fact. You know, all

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<v Speaker 2>this sudden explosion of hate and demonization that was occurring

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<v Speaker 2>around the Great Bearrington Declaration, it actually had a cause,

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<v Speaker 2>and Anthony Fauci was a major player in that cause.

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<v Speaker 2>I filed a Freedom of Information Act request with the

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<v Speaker 2>NIH office where Fauci worked, way back in twenty twenty one,

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<v Speaker 2>and it actually kind of opened the door to looking

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<v Speaker 2>into this. So all the committee investigation that Ran Paul

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<v Speaker 2>has pursued ever since then, a couple of the lawsuits

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<v Speaker 2>around it. Kind of the starting point was the discovery

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<v Speaker 2>of an email, and this is an email from Fauci's

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<v Speaker 2>boss at the time, Francis Collins, to him saying, this

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<v Speaker 2>Great Barrington Declaration things going around, has all these fringe

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<v Speaker 2>epidemiologists that are challenging lockdowns and colins ordered Fauci said,

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<v Speaker 2>I want you to write and publish a devastating published

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<v Speaker 2>takedown of these authors, and basically as a directive to

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<v Speaker 2>get this underway because we need to counter it. And Fauci,

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<v Speaker 2>it turns out, is that new email we got from

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<v Speaker 2>Rand Paul's committee and new foyas that have come true,

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<v Speaker 2>he actually engages in a very el avert coordinated campaign

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<v Speaker 2>to smear the Great Marrington Declaration in the media, in

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<v Speaker 2>the press, behind the scenes in the White House. He

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<v Speaker 2>is a consummate political actor, not a scientist, is what

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<v Speaker 2>all these emails tend to confirm. He's not looking at

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<v Speaker 2>the evidence on lockdowns or the arguments that were being made.

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<v Speaker 2>He's circulating political editorials in favor of lockdowns and calling

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<v Speaker 2>friends in the White House to try to suppress anti

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<v Speaker 2>lockdown voices. So one of the members of the COVID

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<v Speaker 2>task force that was a skeptic of lockdowns is doctor

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<v Speaker 2>Scott Atlas, who's from Stanford University. He was brought in

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of be a counter voice to Fauci, And

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<v Speaker 2>it turns out, right around the time of the Great

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<v Speaker 2>Bearrington declaration, Atlas, who had been favorable to it, gets

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<v Speaker 2>on Fauci's bad side, and Fauci starts this campaign with

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<v Speaker 2>Verks to try to get him fired and removed from

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<v Speaker 2>the COVID Task Force. Because they don't want any dissent internally.

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<v Speaker 2>That's pushing for a document like the Great Bearrington Declaration.

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<v Speaker 2>They wanted to be able to call the shots on lockdowns.

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<v Speaker 2>So rather than this being Fauci the science, as he

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<v Speaker 2>often declared himself to be, it's actually Sauci the political

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<v Speaker 2>operative who is trying to maintain control of the narrative

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<v Speaker 2>and control over the policy and steer it toward lockdowns.

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<v Speaker 1>So the reason I speak to you certainly your connection

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<v Speaker 1>to the Great Barrington Declaration. But this view of this

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of the economics, right, economics we think of

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<v Speaker 1>his dollars and cents, But economics is taking a look

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<v Speaker 1>at a situation and asking ourselves, how can we predict

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<v Speaker 1>the consequences?

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<v Speaker 2>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>This how Milton Friedman would describe economics. How do you

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<v Speaker 1>predict the consequences of changes in circumstances? And I do

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<v Speaker 1>find myself to be a Milton Friedman guy Thomas Sowell guy.

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<v Speaker 1>I would be more of an fa hiat guy. But

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<v Speaker 1>just the reading is so incredibly boring. It's so just

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<v Speaker 1>if he could write the way he would think, I

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<v Speaker 1>would be a happy man, but the writing was just tedious.

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<v Speaker 1>Is I'll get out? But we talked about the economic consequences,

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<v Speaker 1>to which there were none that came into the thinking.

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<v Speaker 1>And it seemed to me that the Great Barrington Declaration

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<v Speaker 1>dealt with all of the potential consequences, and doctor Fauci,

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<v Speaker 1>doctor Burke's mainstream media cared not about consequences, but cared

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<v Speaker 1>about fear for a purpose. Is that the correct assessment

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<v Speaker 1>in your view?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it is absolutely the case. You know, as

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<v Speaker 2>you mentioned, incentives matter, secondary and tertiary effects of decisions

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<v Speaker 2>we make. They matter. And one of the things that

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<v Speaker 2>happened with the lockdowns, it's not just shutting society down

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<v Speaker 2>to keep this disease supposedly contained, although we find out

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't work either under lockdowns, like the whole theory

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<v Speaker 2>behind it was wrong. Shutting down society also means that

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<v Speaker 2>people can't go to work. They also can't go out

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<v Speaker 2>to the store unless they're wearing a mask and walking

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<v Speaker 2>in the direction of the stickers on the floor hours.

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<v Speaker 2>Non essential businesses are shut down, and you start thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about this, what are some of the consequences of that.

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<v Speaker 2>That means that if I'm living paycheck to paycheck and

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<v Speaker 2>suddenly my job, my business, my restaurant that I work at,

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<v Speaker 2>is no longer allowed to be open, that means I

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<v Speaker 2>no longer have a paycheck coming in. And if you're

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<v Speaker 2>sitting there in COVID and say you're a reporter for

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<v Speaker 2>the New York Times, you can do your job at

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<v Speaker 2>home on a laptop. You can watch Netflix, you can

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<v Speaker 2>get Uber Eats or door Dash or something to deliver

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<v Speaker 2>your meals, and life is actually pretty good. It's not disrupted.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you're just working, you know, paycheck to paycheck

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<v Speaker 2>and a service industry job, and you're basically being told

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<v Speaker 2>you're no longer essential, you're out of work, and maybe

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<v Speaker 2>you have a rent payment or a car payment due

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<v Speaker 2>next month, well you're out of luck. This is a

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<v Speaker 2>real economic strain, and we saw it early in the pandemic.

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<v Speaker 2>The states that had the more ristrictive lockdown policies shot

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<v Speaker 2>up in unemployment. You had very clear state level measures

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<v Speaker 2>of this that the worst the lockdown state was, the

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<v Speaker 2>higher the unemployment rate. And states that remained relatively open

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<v Speaker 2>or that ended the lockdowns early on, like Florida, well,

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<v Speaker 2>their economies rebounded and this has tangible effects on the

0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.719
<v Speaker 2>quality of life and the ability to even get by

0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.959
<v Speaker 2>for working class Americans, and those were completely disregarded by

0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.640
<v Speaker 2>Fauci and people I would call the laptop class who

0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.040
<v Speaker 2>could have the luxury of working from home and ordering

0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:39.080
<v Speaker 2>Uber eats and sitting there on their laptops while the

0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:40.280
<v Speaker 2>service industry suffered.

0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:46.080
<v Speaker 1>Is there concrete data you can point to regarding we

0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.320
<v Speaker 1>did this and here is the results we see it.

0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.480
<v Speaker 1>We take a look at inflation right now, which certainly

0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.800
<v Speaker 1>I could have with you the conversation regarding whether or

0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.520
<v Speaker 1>not tariffs are still leading to that as an increase

0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.480
<v Speaker 1>in cost and keeping too much cash in the system.

0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.240
<v Speaker 1>We could take a look at specific job sectors and

0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.360
<v Speaker 1>see whether or not they've recovered and whether or not

0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.280
<v Speaker 1>it has been investment in AI that's actually been leading

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 1>to certain issues as opposed to damage done. We could

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:18.080
<v Speaker 1>take a look at education outcomes as well. What can

0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:23.400
<v Speaker 1>be pointed to as this is the result of this

0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.960
<v Speaker 1>shutdown and here is the damage done, or maybe you

0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.359
<v Speaker 1>can tell me the other way, Well, here's a surprising

0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.520
<v Speaker 1>success that came from it, and if the damage is done,

0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:33.800
<v Speaker 1>what does it take to get out of it?

0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, So I guess there's two direct implications of COVID,

0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:40.920
<v Speaker 2>and one was the immediate that sort of mentioned is

0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.360
<v Speaker 2>like the shutting down of the economy caused people to

0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.800
<v Speaker 2>lose their jobs. And yes, when we reopened those jobs

0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 2>came back, but we were more or less operating in

0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:55.480
<v Speaker 2>an enforced recession for about a year during COVID. That

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.240
<v Speaker 2>means people are worse off regardless. That means that not

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:03.880
<v Speaker 2>only is it e arm to disruption to their everyday lives,

0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.360
<v Speaker 2>and we saw that in the unemployment data. We saw

0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.280
<v Speaker 2>that in the economy essentially crashed in early twenty twenty

0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.320
<v Speaker 2>and it took a while to rebound. The second, the

0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:16.080
<v Speaker 2>longer term effect is well, what did we do in response? Well,

0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.920
<v Speaker 2>politicians of course panicked when the economy was shut down,

0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:21.720
<v Speaker 2>when people were closed out of their job, says what

0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.280
<v Speaker 2>we need to pass stimulus checks, We need to create

0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:28.600
<v Speaker 2>all these government programs to hold people over. If we're

0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.800
<v Speaker 2>going to lock them down, let's throw them a bone. Basically,

0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.760
<v Speaker 2>So we had the succession of these stimulus checks that

0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 2>were payouts essentially done on debt from the US government.

0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.400
<v Speaker 2>There wasn't any revenue to pay for it, but it

0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 2>was just to hold people over, and those stimulus checks

0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:50.280
<v Speaker 2>basically get absorbed into the macroeconomic situation of the federal

0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.040
<v Speaker 2>government and become one of the major emphasises in twenty

0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.920
<v Speaker 2>twenty two. So a couple of years later, in the

0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.120
<v Speaker 2>inflationary crisis, we dumped a bunch of money in to

0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:03.760
<v Speaker 2>the economy, and we pretended as if it was, you know,

0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.040
<v Speaker 2>basically no big deal and it would take care of

0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 2>itself and work its way through the system. Well, Joe

0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.880
<v Speaker 2>Biden mismanaged the inflationary crisis because it was all supposed

0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 2>to be transitory and passed through. And here we are,

0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, four years later, still dealing with the repercussions

0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.960
<v Speaker 2>of that, which traces back to the stimulus checks, traces

0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.920
<v Speaker 2>back to policies that we had to enact during COVID

0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.080
<v Speaker 2>as a result of the fact that we shut down

0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:31.000
<v Speaker 2>the entire economy.

0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Phil Magnus he is senior fellow at the Independent Institute

0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:40.400
<v Speaker 1>David J. Throachair and Political Economy, and his work at

0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.960
<v Speaker 1>AIRE The American Institute for Economic Research, where he was

0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.600
<v Speaker 1>the fa Hiak Chair. I appreciate you taking the time

0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.280
<v Speaker 1>to be with us, give us the breakdown. We'll talk

0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.920
<v Speaker 1>economics in the future. I hope more to get to

0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:54.920
<v Speaker 1>keep it here. This is Tony Kax today