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Speaker 1: You're rocking with the most Submissive the Carl Nelson Show.

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Speaker 2: You're rocking with the most Submissive and Grand Rising family,

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Speaker 2: and thanks for starting your Thursday with us. Later, the

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Speaker 2: founder of the Black Lawyers for Justice, Attorney Malik Shabbaz,

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Speaker 2: will take over our classroom. Attorney Shabaz will update us

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Speaker 2: on the on several of the criminal cases that he's

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Speaker 2: working on, and also it is analysis of the situation

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Speaker 2: in Iran. Before Attorney Shabbaz, historian and author Tracy Rookard

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Speaker 2: Shaw will preview her latest book. The book is titled

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Speaker 2: The Absence of Justice. The book is read on cos

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Speaker 2: some forgotten stories of young black children are justly sent

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Speaker 2: to Atlanta's General Penitentiary. But first to get us started,

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Speaker 2: the founder of the Black Business Month, John Templeton, discussed

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Speaker 2: Black Food Month, which ends next week, by the way,

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Speaker 2: But first let's get Kevin reopened these classroom doors. Grand Rising, Kevin.

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Speaker 1: Grand Rising, indeed, goe Nelson, My man, my man.

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Speaker 2: How you feeling. I'm still learning, Kevin. I just learned

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Speaker 2: something this morning.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. That puts you in alignment with what's going on,

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Speaker 1: I tell you.

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Speaker 2: And always try to be in alignment. Always, always that's

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Speaker 2: one of the things you can strive for to be

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Speaker 2: in alignment with the universe.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly, And it takes various ways to do

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Speaker 1: that for different people. But we won't go into all

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Speaker 1: of that because it's an important news story that you

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Speaker 1: brought up and your guess, mister Templeton was talking about too,

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Speaker 1: and that is the un resolution urges reparations for slavery's

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Speaker 1: historical wrongs. It was spearheaded by Ghana, received one hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty three votes in favor. Three countries Argentina, Israel,

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Speaker 1: and the United States voted against, and fifty two abstained

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Speaker 1: and so Ghana's President John Jermani Muhamma, he said, today

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Speaker 1: we come together in Sonom solidarity to affirm truth and

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Speaker 1: pursue a route to healing and reparative justice.

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Speaker 3: How you feel about that?

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Speaker 2: You know, you know what's great about that, Kevin, all

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Speaker 2: members of fifty four member African group, he was speaking

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Speaker 2: for them, but all Africans in the diaspora came together.

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Speaker 2: This is you know, we talk we talk a lot

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Speaker 2: on this program about unity, Black unity, right family. That

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Speaker 2: was on display of the United Nations on Wednesday, all

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Speaker 2: the Black Nations you know, it doesn't matter where you

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Speaker 2: are in the diaspora or even in South America, the Caribbean, well,

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Speaker 2: any part of the Americas, all voted in favor. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was that everybody knows that we deserve reparationship except

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Speaker 2: three countries, of course, and you mentioned them, right, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: here's all Argentina, Israel, and the United States.

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Speaker 1: And the United States says that the US does not

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Speaker 1: recognize a legal right to reparation for historical wrongs that

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Speaker 1: were not illegal under international law at the time they occurred, and.

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Speaker 2: That was their right right. The slavey was legal then,

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Speaker 2: so so they shouldn't they shouldn't be penalized. So that's

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Speaker 2: their excuse, right.

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Speaker 1: That's their excuse. They're blaming it on the law, the law.

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Speaker 1: That's what the law was at the time. So no

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Speaker 1: reparations should be they don't recognize reparations because there was

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Speaker 1: no law. And it's really wild and yet at the

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Speaker 1: same time, this is a law, a body of law

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Speaker 1: that's looking at rations now. The grave human rights violations

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Speaker 1: United Nations website says the slave trade and slavery stand

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Speaker 1: among the gravest violations of human rights in human history,

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Speaker 1: and up front to the very principles enshrined in the

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Speaker 1: Charter of the United Nations.

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Speaker 3: So it goes on and.

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Speaker 2: On, Oka, did you say how many people, how many people,

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Speaker 2: how many countries abstained were absent did not vote writing

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Speaker 2: the fence.

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Speaker 1: Well, it said that fifty two abstained, okay, and three

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Speaker 1: and we mentioned the three countries that voted against Agentina

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Speaker 1: Israel in the US and one hundred and twenty three

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Speaker 1: votes were in favor.

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Speaker 2: So you know, you know, it was interesting though, the

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Speaker 2: poor Laureate of Barbados esther Philip spoke and she says,

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Speaker 2: there'll be no peace without repertory justice. I wonder if

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Speaker 2: that resonated throughout the UN and when she said that,

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Speaker 2: because you know, obviously the black world just put them

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Speaker 2: on from her point of view. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And another quote that she said is there are no

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Speaker 1: spirits of the victims of slavery present in this room

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Speaker 1: at this moment, and they're listening for one word only. No,

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Speaker 1: she said, there are spirits and they're listening for one

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Speaker 1: word only justice.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Deep, Okay, So moving right along real quickly here, it's

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Speaker 1: Equal Payday. Women have lost ground for the second year

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Speaker 1: in a row. Equal pay has come around again. The

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Speaker 1: annual observance marks how far into the new year women

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Speaker 1: must work to make what men earned in the previous year.

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Speaker 1: This year, it's March twenty six, a day later than

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Speaker 1: it was last year. That's because for the second year

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Speaker 1: in a row, the gender pay gap in the US

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Speaker 1: has widened. According to the most recent data from the

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Speaker 1: Census Bureau, women working full time, year round now earned

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Speaker 1: eighty one cents for every dollar men earned. That's down

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Speaker 1: from eighty three sins last year, in eighty four cents

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four. Now it's the first consecutive widening

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Speaker 1: of the wage gap since the sixties. Says Deborah Vagen.

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Speaker 1: I hope I'm saying that right. She's the director of

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Speaker 1: the Equal Pay Today, a national coalition that organizes not

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Speaker 1: just one, but nine annual observances.

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Speaker 2: And wow, yeah, that gets to show how far behind

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Speaker 2: women still are.

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Speaker 1: Right yeah, yeah. And it's still Women's History Month or so.

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Speaker 1: My subject today is Wilma Rudolph. Wilma Glo Jean Rudolph

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Speaker 1: born in June twenty third, nineteen forty and passed away

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Speaker 1: November twelfth, nineteen ninety four was an American sprinter who

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Speaker 1: overcame polio as a child went on to become a

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Speaker 1: world record holding Olympic champion and international sports icon in

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Speaker 1: track and field following her successes in nineteen fifty six

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Speaker 1: and nineteen sixty Olympic Games, she competed in the two

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Speaker 1: hundred meter dash in one of bronze medal. And another

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Speaker 1: interesting aside was with that was when television began covering

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Speaker 1: worldwide coverage of the Summer Olympics and she became an

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Speaker 1: international star instantly, along with other Olympic athletes such as

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Speaker 1: Cassius Clay later known as Muhammad Ali, Oscar Robertson, and

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Speaker 1: Ralpherd Johnson. So our topic today is Wilma Rudolph and

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Speaker 1: you know that's how it goes, and that's the way

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Speaker 1: it is for the twenty sixth of March, Happy Thursday, Thanks.

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Speaker 2: Garding, Hi, Thanks Kevin. And she was an incredible athlete

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Speaker 2: to overcome polio becoming an Olympian. Yeah, that's a great story. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: thank you for spotlighting her. Ten after the Tampa Family

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Speaker 2: and is bringing John Templeton, John grand Rising, welcome back

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Speaker 2: to the program.

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Speaker 4: Well grand Rising to you and happy Liberation date.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully. Yeah, John Kevin and I were discussing the UN vote.

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Speaker 2: I want to get your thoughts on it before we

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Speaker 2: talk about to what you were scheduled here to talk about.

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Speaker 4: Well, the other thing that was interesting was that all

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Speaker 4: of the white lead countries either voted against it or

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Speaker 4: of state, so all of Europe voted against it, in

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Speaker 4: Australia and New Zealand, that sort of thing. But what

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Speaker 4: people should draw from that was that there are twice

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Speaker 4: as many countries of color, so we need to begin

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Speaker 4: looking at ourselves as the global majority. And so that

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Speaker 4: was a powerful message. The other thing was that, and

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Speaker 4: the speech by the Haitian representative was pretty powerful. So

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Speaker 4: Haiti liberated Latin America, and then Arican Americans came along,

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Speaker 4: and in the course of our emancipation and civil rights movement,

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Speaker 4: we eventually liberated Africa from colonism. It's now Africa's turn

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Speaker 4: to come back and free us. So a number of

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Speaker 4: people mentioned without prompting yesterday that it was the first

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Speaker 4: time that they felt that there was somebody outside the

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Speaker 4: United States who cared about us, and that was just

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Speaker 4: a powerful thing to say. Okay, well, you know, if

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Speaker 4: you're Chinese, you know the Chinese government is there. If

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Speaker 4: you're from l Salvador, you know the El Salvador government.

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Speaker 4: We've never had that. And so the image of a

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Speaker 4: United African Union coming together and saying that we are

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Speaker 4: speaking in one voice with the NAACP and the Congressional

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Speaker 4: Black Caucus. UH in the Caribbean community, UH, that was

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Speaker 4: extremely powerful.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it was because because you know, the reason why

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Speaker 2: they've still got some folks and this unfortunately they live

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Speaker 2: in this country who are trying to keep us apart.

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Speaker 2: And the reason why they do it is because what

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Speaker 2: happened we saw on Wednesday, there's been an awakement across

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Speaker 2: the black world globally that we are WAN and it's

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Speaker 2: coming together. That's why those these aspert groups are coming

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Speaker 2: to trying to split us apart and they think we're better.

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Speaker 2: We shouldn't be connected to our brothers and sisters where

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Speaker 2: if they're being Haiti or being Iberia Liberia or whatever,

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Speaker 2: we're a WAN. And this is what we've spoken of

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Speaker 2: the un I'm glad you pointed that out, and.

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Speaker 4: That's that's actually been the winning formula for black people.

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Speaker 5: UH.

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Speaker 4: You know for the last two hundred years. Paul Cuffey, UH,

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Speaker 4: was a parent afgan that she went and began training

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Speaker 4: Masira own. Back in the seventeen hundreds of the civil

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Speaker 4: rights movements happened because you know, Africa was becoming independent.

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Speaker 4: So we should never get seduced into the idea that

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Speaker 4: we have some domestic allies. Our winning formula has always

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Speaker 4: been to unite with Africa. So Garby had it right.

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Speaker 4: In fact, every every black leader of any substance eventually

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Speaker 4: realized that our future was unity with Africa. Took a

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Speaker 4: lot of them a long time, but eventually everybody got

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Speaker 4: to that same point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know the good thing about that, John,

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Speaker 2: We were saying it in different parts of the world.

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Speaker 2: You know, everybody was saying it, saying the Caribbean, saying

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Speaker 2: it on the content, and saying it here. But now

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Speaker 2: we got on the global stage and Ghana is a

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Speaker 2: president gets to tell the world this is how we feel,

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Speaker 2: you know, this is we're we're in lockstep bow with

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Speaker 2: all of us, all black people. We were speaking, he says.

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Speaker 2: You know, initially he was speaking for uh the African continent,

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Speaker 2: but in the end he made he made it plain

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Speaker 2: that he was speaking for black people globally. This is

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Speaker 2: how we feel and it was reflected in the voter

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I've been working pretty closely for the last

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Speaker 4: year with the sixth Region of the African Union and

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Speaker 4: that's formed that million people who are outside the continents

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Speaker 4: and so so, uh, the diaspora is actually the largest

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Speaker 4: country uh in Africa and the wealthiest. So uh, there's

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Speaker 4: there's beginning to become a recognition on the continent that

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Speaker 4: the solution to their historic problems is to really uh

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Speaker 4: get the diaspora organized and and and make it part

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Speaker 4: of the team. So so this was, uh, this was

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Speaker 4: the prompt that we needed to say, oh, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 4: this is a real thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, and it's a rever reverterating around the

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Speaker 2: globe this morning, when they look up in their papers

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Speaker 2: on the continent and the Caribbean, they'll see this story.

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Speaker 2: Even in Europe. I hope they don't bury that even

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Speaker 2: here up there, I hope they don't bury their story.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you won't see the American person.

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Speaker 2: They let me ask you this though, because some people

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Speaker 2: were following it in real time and they were saying

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Speaker 2: that the United States when they're dissenting vote. They also

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Speaker 2: made the fact that Donald Trump got the full support

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Speaker 2: of the Africans black people in this country. Did you

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Speaker 2: hear that? I saw a report by that I couldn't

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Speaker 2: confound it.

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Speaker 4: They said he had historic support among African Americans, that

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Speaker 4: he that he was the best president ever for for

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Speaker 4: asking Americans.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow. See. You know, I'll get in trouble if

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Speaker 2: I say what I really feel about what he just said.

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Speaker 2: But family, John, you understand what I'm saying now. You know,

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Speaker 2: I know he has a difficult problem with the truth,

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Speaker 2: but you're on the world stage now and you still

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Speaker 2: still perpetuate him of his lives. Come on, hopefully our

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Speaker 2: brothers and sisters are across. They probably figured out this

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Speaker 2: man don't speak with a straight tongue. And because he

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Speaker 2: wasn't speaking for US, I don't know who was speaking

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Speaker 2: for I know this. We got a few black micas

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Speaker 2: out there. That's probably who he was speaking about. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was interesting.

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Speaker 4: Man, Yep, yep, it was Yeah. And the other thing

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Speaker 4: about was the US went first. So right after all

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Speaker 4: these speeches, the person from the US and it was

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Speaker 4: somebody who wasn't recognizable, So nobody of any you know,

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Speaker 4: the actual ambassador didn't say it so they got some

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Speaker 4: low level person to read this statement and he didn't

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Speaker 4: really seem like his heart was in it. But the

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Speaker 4: US came up first and said, well, we're opposed to

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Speaker 4: and everybody was like, what really? So the timing of

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Speaker 4: that was perfect as well.

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Speaker 2: Did they use a black person to make that statement

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Speaker 2: that represented the United States?

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Speaker 4: I don't think they could find anybody. It was a

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Speaker 4: white guy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, listen, we come up on the paper, we come

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Speaker 2: back there. Let's talk about Black Food Month. That's what

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Speaker 2: you're here for originally, but I just had to pick

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Speaker 2: your brain. So I know you've been following this as well. Family,

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Speaker 2: you two just waking up. I guess it's John Temple,

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Speaker 2: that John's going to talk about Black Food Month. That's

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Speaker 2: what we're in these days. You want to get in

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Speaker 2: on this conversation, reach out to us at eight hundred

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Speaker 2: four or five zero seventy eight seventy six and we

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Speaker 2: take your phone calls next and Grand Rising family, thanks

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Speaker 2: for waking up with us on this Thursday morning. Twenty

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Speaker 2: minutes after the top of the O, I guess it's

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Speaker 2: John Temple and Johnson historian, but it's also the founder

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Speaker 2: of the Black Business Month and also Black Food Month.

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Speaker 2: So John call Us from San Francisco, John the Black

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Speaker 2: Business Month. First. How did that come about?

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Speaker 4: Wilfrid Jordan who was the chair of the National Black

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Speaker 4: Chamber at the time, and he and I had worked

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Speaker 4: together we let the campaign against Ward Commilly and Prop

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Speaker 4: to nine back in nineteen ninety six, and he said

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Speaker 4: to me, well, we don't have any data on black businesses,

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Speaker 4: and none of our national organizations really focus on economics.

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Speaker 4: And so at the time, the Bush administration had stopped

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Speaker 4: collecting the minority business data, the same thing that they're

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Speaker 4: trying to do now. And I said, well, we can't

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Speaker 4: can't generate it because it doesn't exist, and he said, well,

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Speaker 4: that's why you need to do it. And so I

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Speaker 4: figured out a way to use the Social Security actuarial

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Speaker 4: data because they have to calculate how many folks are

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Speaker 4: self employed by race and by age and by state

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Speaker 4: and that sort of thing. And I was able to

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Speaker 4: access that data. So we actually had better data than

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Speaker 4: the five year thing that the censors had been doing.

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Speaker 4: And so I did the State of Black Business Report.

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Speaker 4: And because and this is a little known fact, I

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Speaker 4: was actually the first person to write about Black History

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Speaker 4: Month in seventy six because I was the afro's White

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Speaker 4: House correspondent my first job coming out of Howard, and

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Speaker 4: I just happened to see the proclamation that Gerald Ford

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Speaker 4: did and I was the only one who wrote anything

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Speaker 4: about it. And so because I had seen what had

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Speaker 4: happened with Black History Monthels, I said, well, we need

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Speaker 4: a branding exercise to really make black folks understand the

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Speaker 4: importance of black owned businesses. So I proposed in report

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Speaker 4: that we do Black Business Month in August, because most

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Speaker 4: of the black organizations have their meetings in either late

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Speaker 4: July or August. You have Harlem Week, it's Marcus Garvey's birthday.

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Speaker 4: It got black August. So my whole approach to community

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Speaker 4: organizers has always been to get in front of things

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Speaker 4: that people are doing anyway. So I went to the

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Speaker 4: National Urban League in Detroit that year and talked about

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Speaker 4: my findings and went to several other events. And then

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Speaker 4: my younger brother was killed by police in June of

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Speaker 4: twenty four and so I decided to move forward and

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Speaker 4: start Black Business Mouth as a tribute to him. And

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Speaker 4: so this will be our twenty third year and for

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Speaker 4: the last three years. We have replicated Marcus Garvey's nineteen

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Speaker 4: twenty conference at Madison Square Garden where he had Madison

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Speaker 4: Square Garden two thousand delegates and twenty two countries for

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Speaker 4: thirty one days. And so we'll be doing thirty one

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Speaker 4: ways thirty one days in San Francisco this year to

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Speaker 4: mark the opening of the Sergeant the Sergeant Claude Johnson

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Speaker 4: National Museum of African American Art in San Francisco. So

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Speaker 4: people can start registring for that now at black businessmouth

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Speaker 4: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, I'm sorry for I lost to your brother,

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Speaker 2: you know, John. How does this differ from from the

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Speaker 2: annual report that the Urban League that puts out on

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Speaker 2: the Black business?

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Speaker 4: So, you know, well, they knew the state of Black

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Speaker 4: America and so and so I was working with Bill

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Speaker 4: Spriggs at the time. So so when we did the

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Speaker 4: State of Black Business, it was it was something that

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Speaker 4: they had not really focused on in their report. So

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Speaker 4: we've kind of, you know, because we were working together, you know,

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Speaker 4: we were able to carve out a niche where you know,

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Speaker 4: they did what they did. And Mark Morial has been

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Speaker 4: a big supporter of ours throughout the whole twenty three years.

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Speaker 4: And in fact, you know, when my brother died, they

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Speaker 4: were the first ones to reach out to me. So

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Speaker 4: but what we do is as specific is that we

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Speaker 4: look at all fifty states and we use ten key

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Speaker 4: factors for black business success. And part of what we

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Speaker 4: realized was that all of our progress has been funded

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Speaker 4: by black businesses. There's no successful black movement. It's been

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Speaker 4: externally funded. And the reason that we started National Black

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Speaker 4: Food Must in the Spring is that the first business

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Speaker 4: that we started was food. So back in the fifteen

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Speaker 4: hundreds and sixteen hundred, you had blacks, you know, in

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Speaker 4: places like New Amsterdam and Boston who would go outen

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Speaker 4: as fishermen and start selling oysters and other fish. And

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Speaker 4: so it was black food businesses that literally funded the

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Speaker 4: underground railroad. And yeah, I'm sure you know the Bogels

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Speaker 4: who still owned the Philadelphia tribunees their ancestors actually started

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Speaker 4: the catering industry in the United States, so they were

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Speaker 4: the top caterers in Philadelphia. And so African Americans dominated

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Speaker 4: agriculture and food businesses well into the nineteenth century. And

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Speaker 4: so it was those that funded the abolition movement. But

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Speaker 4: also in the sixties, it was also those businesses that

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Speaker 4: funded the civil rights movement as well. So he had

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Speaker 4: folks like ag Gast and Pascals and so you see

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Speaker 4: the pictures on the walls these places, and you know,

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Speaker 4: you know, Martin Luching got killed at the Lorraine Hotel,

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Speaker 4: which is a black on hotel. So there wouldn't have

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Speaker 4: been a civil successful civil rights movement if it hadn't

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Speaker 4: been for the black hospitality industry. So with the CTAA

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Speaker 4: Tournament and NEAC tournament, we basically taken the period between

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Speaker 4: the basketball tournaments in Eastern and made that national black food.

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Speaker 4: So this sixteenth year that we've done this all.

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Speaker 2: Right, you know, one of our listeners just sent me

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Speaker 2: a note here that Simone Biles, the Olympic gymnast, has

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Speaker 2: opened a first restaurant. It's called The Taste of Gold

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Speaker 2: and it's at the George Bush in a Conmonell Airport

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Speaker 2: in Houston. So you were talking about eateries that they

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Speaker 2: wanted you to know if you know of that.

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Speaker 4: Yes, in fact, we've had succulent Saturdays, and so we

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Speaker 4: did our black chain restaurants the first week. And we

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Speaker 4: appreciate the support we got from your show because a

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Speaker 4: lot of folks contacted us about that and signed up

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Speaker 4: for our newsletter that we send out on Fridays, and

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Speaker 4: then we had a Hug a Black Farmer Saturday, and

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Speaker 4: so we encouraged people to find the folks who were

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Speaker 4: active in food justice, urban farming, but also our black farmers,

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Speaker 4: many of whom do public events where people could come

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Speaker 4: out and pick from their fields. And then last weekend

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Speaker 4: we focused on black spirits with our Great Black Promotion

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Speaker 4: because of six hundred African Americans who are spirits manufacturers,

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Speaker 4: which has grown over the last twenty years or so.

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Speaker 4: And so this Sunday, our theme is Black Family Bunch Sunday,

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Speaker 4: and so we're encouraging folks to go out and take

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Speaker 4: their significant woman in your life to brunch this Sunday.

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Speaker 4: And we'll have a list of good bunch places around

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Speaker 4: the country that we're going to be disseminating in the newsletter.

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Speaker 4: So we encourage folks to go in and sign up

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Speaker 4: today to get the newsletter tomorrow so we can give

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Speaker 4: you our recommendations for a bunch this weekend. But we

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Speaker 4: to generate probably about fifty thousand people, and we've been

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Speaker 4: working with Live Free USA, which is doing U promotion

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Speaker 4: love free to get people to get back in the

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Speaker 4: habit of doing Sunday dinners. As to Mike McBride, who's

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Speaker 4: leading that, so because one of the things that he

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Speaker 4: recognized is that we have been so shell shocked over

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Speaker 4: the last year that people were just really you know,

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Speaker 4: didn't know how to respond. And rather than getting out

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Speaker 4: in the streets and all that sort of thing and

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Speaker 4: getting you know, tear gasped by ice, it's like, now

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Speaker 4: we get back up and start having dinner together. So

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Speaker 4: we can actually be in a position to check on

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Speaker 4: folks and just kind of see how people are with

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Speaker 4: all the layoffs and contract reversals and all that sort

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Speaker 4: of thing. You know, people are just kind of shell shocked,

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Speaker 4: and I can kind of imagine what people felt like

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Speaker 4: during reconstruction, because I'm sure in eighteen seventy five people

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Speaker 4: never thought that everything that bed to achieve would be reversed.

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Speaker 4: And so so we can see this happening in real time,

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Speaker 4: and hopefully we can use history to make sure it

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Speaker 4: doesn't happen again.

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Speaker 2: Well, Hathel right there twenty nine minutes away from the

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Speaker 2: top there. Family that's John Templeton's a historian's also the

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Speaker 2: founder of the Black Business Month and also the Black

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Speaker 2: Food Month, which we were in John, you know, the

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Speaker 2: person who sent me that report about Simon and Bios

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Speaker 2: opening a restaurant in the airport in Houston. Obviously she's

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Speaker 2: not just going to cater to black folks in Houston

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Speaker 2: who travel. So my question to you in the marketing

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Speaker 2: of food, is it marketed? Is it in a general

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Speaker 2: marketer or should they market just to you know, if

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Speaker 2: you've got a black restaurant, should you just go after

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Speaker 2: the black dollar or should you go after everybody's money?

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Speaker 4: What we discussed this so last week when we talked

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Speaker 4: about black spirits. The foundation of the American economy is

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Speaker 4: black culture. So we drive consumer demand not only in

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Speaker 4: the United States but around the world. So so the

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Speaker 4: paradox is that if you drill down on uh, you know,

417
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Speaker 4: your connection to black cousture. When I'm when i'm you know,

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Speaker 4: we do a book, say grace and wipe your hands

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Speaker 4: the black restaurant that got to America's black restaurants. And

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Speaker 4: when I'm going around looking at various restaurants to determine

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Speaker 4: whether it's black owned or not, usually just go visit

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Speaker 4: and actually, you know, meet the owners and that sort

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Speaker 4: of thing. But one one thing that's always good a

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Speaker 4: giveaway is a black restaurants always named for a relative,

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Speaker 4: uh Mama's aunt, Carol, uncle. You see a relative names

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00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 4: like okay, it's probably it was black on restaurant. So so,

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00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 4: so our story is really the universal story. And that

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Speaker 4: kind of goes back to the speech that they gave

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Speaker 4: it to un yesterday. I mean, everybody in the world

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Speaker 4: is an African, you know, but every African isn't a European.

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Speaker 2: So when we hey, John, John, John, hold up, say

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Speaker 2: that again for the folks in the back of the classroom.

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Speaker 4: Okay, everybody in the world is an African, right because

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Speaker 4: humanity started in Africa. But you know, every African isn't

435
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 4: a European or every African is in an Asian. So

436
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 4: you know, during the nineties, I had a chance to

437
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 4: do some traveling with Kool and the Gang, and it

438
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 4: struck me that whenever they would travel around the world,

439
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 4: people who couldn't speak English knew their songs. So you know,

440
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 4: it's it is our culture that is the default global culture.

441
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 4: So people will come to her restaurant because of who

442
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 4: she is and her story, and so we really have

443
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 4: to drill down on particularly black food culture. And so

444
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 4: there's just a lot of high end black restaurants around

445
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 4: the country, and some of them are doing our interesting

446
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 4: fusion things. For instance, Draymond Green has a restaurant in

447
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 4: San Francisco that is a fusion of Dominican and Ethiopian food.

448
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 4: There's another restaurant that we came across that's combination of

449
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 4: Black and Ta food. So our culture is what else?

450
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 2: Wow, that's a combination those combinations. Again, it goes back

451
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: to marketing. That's my question to you. How did they

452
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 2: market their product these and we're talking about the restaurants

453
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: now we leave businesses alone for a minute. Do they

454
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: market slowly to to African the Afghan diaspora and Africans

455
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 2: or do they go after the European market as well.

456
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 4: If you go for the black market, other groups will

457
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 4: will find you. And and that's that's been the characteristic fact.

458
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 4: There's a you know, one of things. One of the ways.

459
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 4: You know, when one of the black restaurants is successful,

460
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 4: as you go in, you might see seventy of the

461
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 4: audience is it black? And they haven't been anything different.

462
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 4: But once word gets around about their food. You know,

463
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 4: they're able to attract it. And so so what we're

464
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 4: seeing is a much higher level of investment. For instance,

465
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 4: Lace London with the Carolina Kitchens, you know, you know,

466
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 4: just the the the detail that he goes to in

467
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 4: the decoration of the restaurants and that sort of thing.

468
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 4: So uh so they're preparing themselves to be able to

469
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 4: reach an audience that is far beyond the black market.

470
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 4: But it's all rooted in black culture. So that's one

471
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 4: of the ways that you see that they are appealing

472
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 4: to a broader marketing. It's just the the scale of it.

473
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 4: And you know, like Mike Epps did a place in Detroit,

474
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 4: So a lot of celebrities are opening restaurants around the country,

475
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 4: but also a lot of the chefs are becoming celebrities

476
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 4: and so, uh so you see this fusion you may

477
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 4: have heard about in the Furre in Atlanta where they

478
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 4: were going to highlight Magic City, which, among other things,

479
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 4: were still a restaurant. Uh And so the NBA was

480
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,479
Speaker 4: teaming with a black restaurant to do a promotion they

481
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 4: will serve the Magic City Wings during the game.

482
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: Right and old I thought, right there, John, we gotta

483
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 2: check the news trafficking weather. Yeah, because they classify that

484
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: they're not as a restaurant but as a strip club.

485
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: So once you explain that when you get back. Also,

486
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 2: because the restaurant business is tough, it takes just one

487
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: bad review, one bad dish, and you're probably out of business.

488
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: So are you going to struggle for a while? Explain

489
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 2: that when we get if you help people you know

490
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 2: who have to cross those hurdles. Family, just waking up.

491
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: John Templeton is our guest's the founder of the Black

492
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 2: Business Month, also the founder of Black Food Month, which

493
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 2: is actually this month. What are your thoughts? You can

494
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 2: get in on this discussion. Reach out to us at

495
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 2: eight hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy six

496
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,479
Speaker 2: tickered phone calls after we check the news. That's next

497
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 2: and grand rising family, thanks for waking up with us

498
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: on this Thursday morning. And I guess this is John Templeton.

499
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 2: John is the founder of the Black Business Month and

500
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: all so Black Food Month, which happens to be this month.

501
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: Before we go back to lementstry mind, you're coming up

502
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: later this morning we speak with the founder of the

503
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: Black Warriors for Justice. There would be attorney Malik Shabaz.

504
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 2: And before we hear from attorney Melik, though, historian and

505
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 2: author Tracy Rooker Shaw will John us she's going to

506
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: preview her lady's book The Absence of Justice, and tomorrow's Fridays,

507
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: you know, and you can view another chance to free

508
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: your mind all that means to think for yourself. Join

509
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: us for our open Phone Friday program again promptly at

510
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: six am Eastern time right here in Baltimore on ten

511
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: ten WLB and also in the DMV on fourteen fifty

512
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: w L. John, before we left it for the news,

513
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: you would tell us about the was it the club

514
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 2: and you said it's a restaurant as well. It sort

515
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: of was doing a promotion with the Atlanta Hawks, and

516
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 2: some people slammed it because they said it was a

517
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 2: strip club. I want you to address that. And also

518
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: we got one of our Atlanta listeners, John wants you

519
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: to explain, you know, what happened to Study Vegan, a

520
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 2: study Vegan restaurant as well well.

521
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, questions about profitability and so I mentioned that many

522
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 4: of the chefs have become celebrities. In fact, during the

523
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 4: pandemic CLEOTV, one of your fellow TV ie companies. I

524
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 4: survived watching the cookie shows on CLEOTV during the pandemic,

525
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 4: and so we had a couple of instances where people

526
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 4: have sort of gotten ahead of their skis in terms

527
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 4: of being visible on social media and expanding and that

528
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 4: sort of thing, and basically have not been able to

529
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 4: focus on the actual mechanics of running the business. So

530
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 4: that's a cautionary tale, and it's something that you know,

531
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 4: we're experiencing really for the first time. So I think

532
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 4: where people will learn from that to just kind of

533
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 4: focus on, you know, the product first, as opposed to

534
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 4: the notoriety. I think, you know, Ben's Chili Bowl has

535
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,479
Speaker 4: been a good example since nineteen fifty eight of being

536
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 4: able to focus on, you know, delivering a product that

537
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 4: everybody can count on. The up to five restaurants around

538
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 4: the DC area and I'm waiting for them to finish

539
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 4: their renovation. But yeah, that's the key to really focus

540
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 4: on the product. And as you said, there were people

541
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 4: who thought that it was exploitative of women to bring

542
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 4: in the strip club, and so one of the white

543
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 4: players for San Antonio Spurs wrote a column about it,

544
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 4: and he wasn't even a famous player, but one White

545
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 4: Player wrote a callum about it. Then they canceled it

546
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 4: a couple of days later, So that was interesting.

547
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 2: And Slutty Vegan your friends who they were trying to

548
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 2: build out too fast? What happened to that franchise that had.

549
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 4: Been very prominent and was expanding very quickly, and you

550
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 4: know that just it creates management issues. So so so

551
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 4: perhaps looking forward to you would probably focus more on

552
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 4: a fewer restaurants and trying to expand. Probably our best

553
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 4: example of the chain is a Golden Crust, which is

554
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 4: actually the largest African American chain out of the Bronx,

555
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 4: and they've got over one hundred restaurants in nine states

556
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 4: and they actually make their own products. So they have

557
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 4: a big factory in the Bronx right around the corner

558
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 4: from where their first restaurant was. But the founder, Lowell Hawthorn,

559
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 4: about ten years so, he actually committed suicide. So it's

560
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 4: it's more than a notion to try to grow that fast,

561
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 4: and so so it's very important to really focus on

562
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 4: the business side as well in order to.

563
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 2: And a side note here, you know John, we were

564
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: supposed to interview him right before he allegedly committed suicide.

565
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 2: This is a friend of Armstrong. Williams. Armstrong's called me

566
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 2: and said, you kind of interviewed this guy. Man, he's

567
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: the fastest growing a restaurant and us who is he?

568
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 2: And he told me the guy sells it's Jamaican patties.

569
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 3: Right.

570
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 2: They started as a patty story or something like that.

571
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 4: Got a book and everything there.

572
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 2: Right, that was the book. That was the book that

573
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 2: we were supposed to be on our program. And then

574
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: a few weeks Armstrong calls were and said, hey, man,

575
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: we got to cancel that because my man committed suicide.

576
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 2: So I just want to share that with audience so

577
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: you'd have heard his story. But he still got book out.

578
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: You can research it and read the book anyway.

579
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 4: And it was to meet him like a couple of

580
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 4: days after when he uh committed suicide, because I had

581
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 4: gone out to the plant and they had shown me

582
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 4: around and everything, and it was just you know, you know,

583
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 4: I thought it was just a perfect example of how

584
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 4: to really grow, to scale and to create manufacturing. But

585
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 4: apparently there was some tax issues and uh uh, you know,

586
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 4: I think it's important to have peers to connect with

587
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 4: so that the pressure doesn't get to you. And I

588
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 4: think that was you know, perhaps for the probably just

589
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 4: didn't have anybody that he could really confide in. Uh

590
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 4: and so, uh so those all become parts of how

591
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 4: to really develop a business that's out in the public because,

592
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 4: as you say, you gotta you gotta, you gotta hit

593
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 4: it every day because you know, there are people doing

594
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 4: reviews and that sort of thing. So so the quality

595
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 4: and the pressure is really on. We're doing a first

596
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 4: class versus R But also means that the timing of

597
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 4: this year's UH National Black Food mouff is important because

598
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 4: restaurants are really catching hell from the tariffs and the

599
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 4: uproar that's happening in the economy, so very important for

600
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 4: us to shift our dollars towards black restaurants, which are

601
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 4: the ones which are really funded our freedom struggle away

602
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 4: from some of the fast food chains that have basically

603
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 4: done the moonwalk away from us UH as as as

604
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 4: what we call it UH revolution by relaxation.

605
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 2: Well hold up thorry that ten away from the top family.

606
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 2: Just checking in John Templetons, I guess Johnny's a founder

607
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 2: the Black Business Month and also Black Food Month, which

608
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: is this month. I got to ask you this because

609
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 2: we mentioned the Internet. The Internet has changed the game

610
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 2: out you know just about it all, all society itself,

611
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: and it comes to food as well. You've got fellows

612
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: on the and women on the internet who go around

613
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 2: in surprise and go to different restaurants and taste the food,

614
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 2: and then they do a report and on these particular

615
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 2: restaurants and differ they show up unexpectedly. I'm sure you've

616
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 2: probably seen these stories, and then they file their report online.

617
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: And if you get a thumbs up, your business is

618
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 2: going to increase. But if you get it not, so

619
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 2: you know, it's going to hurt your business. I want

620
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 2: to get your thoughts on that, and also want to

621
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: get your thoughts on door dash that is that changing

622
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 2: how the restaurant business is done these days.

623
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 4: Well, both of those are negative for black owned restaurants.

624
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 4: You know, we go around and we look at two

625
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 4: thousand restaurants a year that we have in our book,

626
00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 4: and I don't do a review on there because I

627
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 4: want people to experience the restaurant. And you know the

628
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 4: biggest thing that that are viewers wanted just to know

629
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 4: where they are right because most people don't even know

630
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 4: because they don't they have budgets for advertising. And so

631
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 4: what the delivery services do that's damaging.

632
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 6: Is that.

633
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 4: When you search for say soul food, you know the

634
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 4: delivery services will come up first. And so it's very

635
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 4: rare that you can actually get the website for the

636
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 4: actual restaurant. So if you go through the delivery service,

637
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 4: then they're taking fort off of that order that you

638
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 4: would have paid in full price to the restaurant otherwise.

639
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 4: And so the delivery services are damaging to ask American

640
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 4: restaurants because if you if you get it through the

641
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 4: delivery service, you're a door Dash customer. You're not You're

642
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 4: not a Ben's Chili Bowl because and so you know

643
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 4: next time you so they gonna recommend you to a

644
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 4: Korean restaurant or Getterview restaurant or something else. And so

645
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 4: so the directory that we have in our book, we

646
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 4: give the website so that people can go directly to

647
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 4: the restaurant and spend the money directly with the restaurant

648
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 4: tour and on the reviews. You know, everybody now thinks

649
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 4: they're a food viewer, but it's a very specialized field

650
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 4: and most of the people who are doing it don't

651
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 4: understand Black culture, don't understand the convention, so oftentimes they're

652
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 4: responding to the neighborhood are you know. For instance, they'll say, oh,

653
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 4: I had to wait, you know, and so your white

654
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 4: person out in Anacostia, you gotta wait twenty minutes for

655
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,919
Speaker 4: a meal, then you worried about, you know, a bunch

656
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 4: of other things. Whereas if you grew up in Anacostia,

657
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 4: you live around the corner as something that you kind

658
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 4: of build into. So I wouldn't put too much credence

659
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 4: in those online reviews. One of the things that we

660
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 4: did as we were checking this year's list is we

661
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 4: relied on the black newspapers because the editors of black

662
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 4: newspapers are probably going to be most knowledgeable about what

663
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 4: restaurants are really serving the community, which ones are hosting events,

664
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 4: and that sort of thing. So we've relied on the

665
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 4: black newspapers, also on the convention and business bureaus to

666
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 4: find out some of the places that we hadn't heard

667
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 4: about before. So I would rely on those sources as

668
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 4: opposed to online reviewers, because a lot of those folks

669
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 4: are actually trying to charge people under the stable and

670
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 4: all that sort of thing, So it's a not a

671
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 4: reliable source.

672
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 2: Uh five away from the top of that, I would

673
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 2: come round a break reel. So I got to ask

674
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: you about celebrities. We could talked earlier about Simone Biles

675
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 2: in her restaurant. It's going to be in the airport

676
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: in Houston, the main airport in Houston. Only if you're

677
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 2: familiar with the actress. Easter Race a restaurant that she's

678
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: got in La in View the View Park windsor Hills.

679
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 2: Here it's on for the La folks that they already know.

680
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 2: It's on Slawson right right, and and it's booked out

681
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: months in advance out in LA. I was trying to

682
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 2: get in and say, oh man, we booked out for

683
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 2: like three months in advance. Just does a celebrity factor

684
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 2: help you when you have a restaurant? You know people

685
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 2: want to I guess people because since you ask restaurant

686
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 2: all to be seen there, and she's as I mentioned,

687
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 2: she's booked out two or three months in advance just

688
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: to get a seat in. It's just food. But because

689
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: I guess it's Easter Ray Uh owns a restaurant or

690
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: co owner? Does that help in promoting restaurants? The celebrity factor.

691
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 4: Absolutely, But you will notice one of one of these

692
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 4: things that we want to promote during Black Food Month

693
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 4: is for black celebrities to visit restaurants. Because if you're

694
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 4: in Florida Avenue Grill, you know, first thing you see

695
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 4: are the pictures of all the celebrities who visited, and

696
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 4: some of the tables have names the celebrities who said

697
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 4: at them and that sort of thing. So so historically

698
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 4: that's how black restaurants have marketing themselves because the entertainers

699
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 4: had to eat the black restaurants. So you get all

700
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 4: these pictures of Duke Ellington and Count Basie and all

701
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 4: these kind of folks visiting the restaurants. And so for instance,

702
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 4: Roscoe Chicken Waffles.

703
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, I thought right there. John. We got to

704
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 2: step aside and get caught up in the trafficking news

705
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 2: in our different cities. We come back, I'll let you

706
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 2: tell us about Roscoe's out in LA And also Claude

707
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 2: in Baltimore has a question or comment for your family.

708
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 2: You two can get in on this discussion with John

709
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: Templeton as we discussed Black Food Month. This is Black

710
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 2: Food Month. You got a free moment used to talk

711
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: about food, Black food. That's what we're talking about. You know,

712
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 2: how to reach us eight hundred four five zero seventy

713
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 2: eight seventy six and were ticket phone calls after we

714
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 2: check the trafficking weather. That's next and Grand Rising family. Thanks,

715
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 2: thanks for waking up with us on this Thursday morning.

716
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: I guess it's John Templeton. John is the founder of

717
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: the Black Business Month and also Black Food Month, and

718
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 2: we're discussing food. Before he left, he talked about Roscoe's

719
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 2: Chicken and Waffles. Those of you who traveled go to

720
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 2: LA it's one of these known restaurants, just like the

721
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 2: Vegan restaurant Simply Wholesome right there off off Slawson. That's

722
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,240
Speaker 2: and other people. You know, it's kind of like you mentioned.

723
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 2: You mentioned the restaurant in Washington, DC. That restaurant as

724
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: well as well known Ben's Ticket Chicken, Ben's Chili Bowl.

725
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: That's where folks when they come to DC they want

726
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 2: to go eat. Well, that's the same thing that Roscoe's

727
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 2: and also Simply Wholesome. A side note on Simply Wholesome.

728
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 2: We used to do our well we did with one

729
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 2: program there at Simply Wholesome and the place was packed

730
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 2: and the fire department had come and shut it down.

731
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 2: It's like, where will these people's four o'clock in the

732
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 2: morning people, Well, all these people packed in this restaurant.

733
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 2: But anyway, I want you to tell us about Roscoe's

734
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 2: Chicken and Waffles because that's that's one of those buzzwords

735
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 2: for a restaurant that's made it big in La.

736
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, but Snoop Dogg mentioned simply Hope. I mean Roscoe

737
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,399
Speaker 4: was kicking and waffle in one of his songs and

738
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 4: that made their business explode. They're now to I think

739
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 4: he got about nineteen restaurants all the way down to

740
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 4: San Diego now, and Ben's Chili Bowl when Obama went

741
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 4: there right when he got right after he got elected,

742
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 4: really gave them a boost. So it's really significant for

743
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 4: not only celebrities and sports figures but elect officials.

744
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 2: Well let me throw this in here because I'm not

745
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 2: sure if you know this about Roscoe's Chicken and Waffles. First,

746
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 2: it was black on and he's got a lot of

747
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 2: black supporting man Snoop mentioned in one of his records.

748
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 2: Then they found out that it was by a Mexican,

749
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 2: and then they found out that he was a Trumpster,

750
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 2: and and they've been struggling in certain c of their

751
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 2: restaurants out in LA They have been struggling because folks like, hey,

752
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 2: we're not going to support a Trumpster. So it's one

753
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 2: of the things if you're in business, keep your political

754
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 2: decisions for you to yourself. You don't go out and

755
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 2: you know and make it loud and proud that you're

756
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:25,359
Speaker 2: supporting whatever candidate, especially a candidate that doesn't show up

757
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 2: for the black community. Because black folks in La of

758
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 2: you know, if they've just thumb their noses of many

759
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 2: of the Rosco's chicken the office, I just want to

760
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: throw that in. I think one of them even closed

761
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 2: the un in Pasadena. But anyway, I'll let you continue.

762
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and so but that that's that's really one

763
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 4: of the things that we want to encourage during the

764
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 4: month is for people who have uh some public visibility

765
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 4: to make a point of going to the restaurants and

766
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 4: holding events. Your sororities and fraternities can have their meetings

767
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 4: in black restaurants. Were here last seven years, we've done

768
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 4: the Black Contractors in San Francisco and every Wednesday we

769
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 4: go to a black restaurant and the whole thorry.

770
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 2: That John because we race the clock in Glad and

771
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 2: Baltimore has a question or a comment for each on

772
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 2: line three. Grand Rise and Glaudi're on with John Templeton.

773
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, Grant Rising a good subject. I uh attend a

774
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 7: lot of eat outs. We love wropping Baltimore, Washington. We

775
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 7: love to go out to restaurants. And the problem that

776
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 7: we are having because we are health conscious and vegan

777
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 7: eass and all that switching over and what we finding

778
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 7: out and we know about the cooking oil, you know,

779
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 7: Canoda or ore and a lot of restaurants cannot uh

780
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 7: pay the price they use an actual version olive walcs

781
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 7: is very expensive and uh and I know they had

782
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 7: to boost the price up to you know, to a

783
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,720
Speaker 7: to deal with the cause of that, uh, you know restaurant.

784
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 7: So when when people go to the restaurants, and I

785
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 7: know they can afford to build, but the princes are

786
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 7: so high, so they don't go no more, you know,

787
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 7: and that's gonna be a problem. So if they if

788
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 7: they don't cook their own and try to deal with

789
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 7: that high prices, it's a problem for the black restaurants.

790
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: All right, Let's give me a chance to respond, claud

791
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 2: because the rest they club. We got our next guest

792
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: down there, Tracy rookd Shark. She's waiting for us. But

793
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 2: John respond to the class and is it is it

794
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 2: appropriate if you're in a restaurant to ask how they

795
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 2: made the meal? Like Lord was saying, could you ask

796
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 2: what was what was in it?

797
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: Is?

798
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 3: You know?

799
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 2: Is that appropriate?

800
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 4: It's best to do it before you go, so you

801
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 4: might when when you call, you might want to ask

802
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 4: those kind of questions. Let though you have some special

803
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 4: uh diet Terry D has he been to Land of

804
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 4: cush Over in Baltimore?

805
00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 8: Oh?

806
00:50:58,840 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 2: He hung up?

807
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, so when I would recommend. But also there's

808
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 4: a vegan restaurant up around Georgia Avenue and Columbia UH

809
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 4: in d C. That might also be a good match

810
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 4: for him as well. But I would say called first.

811
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 4: One of the reasons why we don't do reviews.

812
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 6: Is that.

813
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 4: The worst thing that can happen to a restaurant is

814
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 4: to have a whole bunch of people come that you

815
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 4: aren't expected. And so what we do is we do

816
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 4: black food tours around the countries working with the Minority

817
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 4: limitin Owners Association. So we will organize as a group

818
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 4: of folks if there's a convention in town and take

819
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:54,240
Speaker 4: them to several restaurants. So we'll let the the owners

820
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 4: know in advance, and we'll try to take people's orders

821
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 4: in advance so that they have the best opportunity to

822
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 4: present what they're doing as opposed to you know, coming in, uh,

823
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 4: you know, in a rush, because you know, the issue

824
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 4: with you know, the thing that's tricky about being a

825
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 4: restaurant is is you have to buy your food and

826
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 4: everything else in advance, and you know, you merely not

827
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 4: know how many people are coming and so, uh so

828
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 4: that's always a very tight window to keep. So I

829
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 4: would say calling events. Uh, but it's also good to

830
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 4: know the owner. And that's that's the advantages we have

831
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 4: with our black restaurants that usually you can I mean, well,

832
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,880
Speaker 4: I'm a Red Rooster are running to Mark Samwison sometimes, So.

833
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 2: If you know the owner Red Rooster in Harlem, right, yeah, yeah,

834
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 2: that's a that that actually that was another personal note here.

835
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 2: There's a radio station we worked with, the w l

836
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 2: I B to a b LS. That's where that's where

837
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 2: we were on the third floor. That's where the restaurant

838
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 2: is now one hundred and twenty six in Lenox. Hey, listen, John,

839
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 2: we got to run, but before we go, how can

840
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 2: folks get more information about Black Food Month, Black.

841
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 4: Business Love dot com, and Black Restaurant dot Net.

842
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 2: All right, John, keep us in the loop, man, because

843
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 2: what you're doing is so important because you're connecting the

844
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 2: dots and all of us over the diaspora looking to

845
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 2: support black people. We love recycling our black dollars, especially

846
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: when it comes to eating, it comes to business. We

847
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 2: love doing it and you've got the connection. So just

848
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,800
Speaker 2: give us those digit those that information again, those websites.

849
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 4: Black Businessmall dot com and Black Restaurant dot Net.

850
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 2: Thanks John, thank you for sharing all this information with

851
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 2: us this morning. Thanks all right, all right, family, ten

852
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 2: after the top of the Our next guest is Tracy

853
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 2: rookerd Shaw Tracy grand Rising, Welcome to the program.

854
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 9: Thank you so much. Good morning, call and family, and

855
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:56,879
Speaker 9: hope you're doing well.

856
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 2: Yes, we are doing well this morning. Thank you. You

857
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 2: are an author, but you're also a historian. Give us

858
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 2: a little bit of your background. We sort of have

859
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 2: a ritual here with our first time guest, so give

860
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 2: us a little bit of your background. How we kink

861
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 2: got into the writing business.

862
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 9: Well, just wanted to say I'm from Metro Atlanta and

863
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 9: I am an archival researcher and historian, and my work

864
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 9: primarily focuses on doing deep dives into state, federal, and

865
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 9: local records. And so some people call me a reconstruction historian.

866
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 9: And while I do work in that era, it's through

867
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 9: a very specific lens for me, whether it's looking at

868
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 9: the black legislators elected in eighteen sixty eight and their

869
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:41,479
Speaker 9: contributions to the state of Georgia specifically, or my most

870
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 9: recent work where I've actually extended that research on into

871
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 9: the twentieth century, where I've uncovered a number of cases

872
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 9: where black children, some as young as twelve and thirteen,

873
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 9: who came from across the state, across the South rather

874
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 9: and even up the coast. We found children from Brooklyn

875
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 9: and from Washington, d c. And then across again the

876
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 9: South who were arrested, convicted, and incarcerated in the Atlanta

877
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 9: Federal Penitentiary for overwhelmingly nonviolent crimes. So my work is brandular,

878
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 9: it's interpretive, and its intent is just to make sure

879
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 9: that we honor our ancestors by making certain that they

880
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 9: are properly woven into the American record.

881
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 2: And your latest book, In the Absence of Justice, tell

882
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: us about that book. How did you decide to write

883
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: this particular book. What was it that you triggered that

884
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 2: thought process in your mind?

885
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:36,359
Speaker 9: It was by accident. I was completing my first book,

886
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 9: and I almost didn't do that book, The Ghost of

887
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 9: Douglas County, where I was documenting the African presence that

888
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 9: helped to create a county in Georgia, and I got

889
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 9: so frustrated because I was trying to do research, but

890
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 9: I was approaching it from using a European standard of documentation,

891
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 9: which we can't do when we're looking at our history.

892
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 9: And so it was from my interaction with doctor Chique Akua,

893
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 9: who said, don't throw in the towel. I think that

894
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 9: you're looking at this the wrong way. And I went

895
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 9: back into the archives and was able to dig and dig,

896
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 9: and then I finally found the African presence I was

897
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 9: looking for that tied to the creation of Douglas County, Georgia,

898
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 9: and it ties to Frederick Douglas specifically. And so when

899
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 9: I was in the archives, I just happened to go

900
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 9: on a back hallway and I found a picture of

901
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 9: this little kid, and I thought he looked interesting, and

902
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 9: I was drawn to him. He had on what I

903
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 9: thought was the school uniform, but the uniform had numbers

904
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 9: on the chest, and so my husband said, I don't

905
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 9: think that's a school uniform. It looks like he may

906
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 9: be incarcerated. So we eventually I was able once I

907
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 9: finished my first book, The Ghost of Douglas County, I

908
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 9: went back and I tracked the numbers down and found

909
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 9: out that he was actually in the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary.

910
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 9: He was twelve years old, Carl, and he was he

911
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 9: didn't weigh one hundred pounds, and he he wasn't five

912
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,800
Speaker 9: feet tall, and he was incarcerated. He came from Jacksonville, Florida,

913
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 9: and he was incarcerated for what they termed as mail tampering.

914
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 9: He found a piece of mail on Independence Day and

915
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 9: he was put in prison in the year nineteen o

916
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 9: five and served three years hard labor.

917
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: And that was really why a child hard labor.

918
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 9: Hard labor that was soilm cutting shops.

919
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 2: Was this all when you're research Were European a non

920
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 2: white or non black children tree the same way?

921
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 9: Or was just that our children there appeared to be

922
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 9: a focus on African children, and so when we started

923
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 9: this book, I felt like it would be a disservice

924
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 9: to Preston, who is the young man who was twelve

925
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 9: years old, if I started the story at his incarceration,

926
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 9: because I think we needed to look at a wider

927
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 9: lens so that we can understand the DNA that went

928
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 9: into the legal system and entered socially into our culture

929
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 9: that would allow a judge, a police officer, and just

930
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 9: citizens humans to look at this little baby and not

931
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,919
Speaker 9: see him for what he was, and then in turn

932
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 9: their brain transferred that into some menacing adult male who

933
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 9: was being deceitful. And so I have to say that

934
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 9: the way that I decided to back it up and

935
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 9: also connected culture to the continent was because a lot

936
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 9: of the information and teaching that I got from people

937
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 9: like Professor Tony Browner and his giving us an expanded

938
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 9: understanding culturally that everything is connected. And so we start

939
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 9: the book coming from Africa. We start the book retelling

940
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 9: how this country was created. We talked about the dehumanization

941
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 9: part that came into this country and how we got

942
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 9: to a point where grown people could look at a

943
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 9: little child and not see him for what he was.

944
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 2: Fourteenth and top Aur family. I guess there's Tracy A.

945
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 2: Rook and Shaw and she's written several books. In the book,

946
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 2: we want to talk about the ghost of Douglas County

947
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 2: before the book and discussion right now is in the

948
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 2: Absence of Justice. It's just mentioned this child was sent

949
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 2: it to the penitentiary. When you read that, did it

950
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 2: make you feel away? Because when you said it, I

951
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 2: was like, wow, you know, I guess you just envision

952
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 2: a child, a twelve year old black child being sent

953
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 2: to the penitentiary. It just it just sounds crazy. So

954
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 2: how did you feel when you researched on that and

955
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 2: you saw that?

956
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 9: Okay, so did it make me feel away? Let me

957
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 9: just share with you. The archivist had to help me

958
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 9: out of the lab, the research lab, because I was

959
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 9: crying so profusely. But it was astonishing. But here's the thing.

960
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 9: What I didn't realize is was I thought, Preston, was this,

961
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,959
Speaker 9: you know, this one off case where this one oldver

962
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 9: zealous judge just misapplied the law. But the more we researched,

963
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 9: and as Professor Tony Rodder would say, the ancestral intelligence

964
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 9: started to guide us to certain pieces of information. Preston

965
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 9: was one of many. Carl he was twelve. Then we

966
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 9: found thirteen year old and fourteen year old and it

967
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 9: just kept going on and on and on until we

968
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 9: had a book that was over three hundred pages, and

969
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 9: I thought it was just going to be a very

970
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 9: short manuscript on president. But there were many other children,

971
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 9: so we know that this was an intentional effort to

972
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 9: incarcerate our people and our children. And it wasn't a

973
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 9: one off with this twelve year old. There were many

974
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 9: other children captured.

975
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 2: And we say children so young girls were involved as well.

976
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 6: Well.

977
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 9: The Atlanta Penitentiary was the facility for boys, and so

978
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 9: that's where we focused. We didn't expand it out, and

979
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 9: so this penitentiary only housed mail inmates.

980
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 2: Children twelve years old. I wonder how we've become institutionalized, Tom,

981
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 2: But we discussed the early about reparations family. This is

982
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,919
Speaker 2: another reason why we should get reparations on this story

983
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 2: in this book. You got to read this book in

984
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 2: the absence of justice. What else did you just struck

985
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 2: you doing your research before you put it on print.

986
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 9: Well, one of the things I noticed a common thread,

987
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 9: so let me just say for present, he appeared to

988
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 9: be on the street, and so we were trying to

989
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 9: figure out what happened to his parents. And so I

990
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 9: think even today and we talk about this where I

991
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 9: am in Georgia, in the school system, you know, we

992
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,040
Speaker 9: have to be careful when children appear to be not

993
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 9: represented because it's almost like a dog whistle to the

994
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 9: predators who are out in community. And so we want

995
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:32,520
Speaker 9: to always stay focused and give children covering.

996
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 2: R Tracy hold that thought right there. We got to

997
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: step aside for a few months. I don't want to

998
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 2: break your rhythm. When you come back, just please complete

999
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 2: your thought. Family, you two can get it on this discussion.

1000
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 2: I guess is Tracy rookod Shaw. She's written a book.

1001
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 2: Book is titled in the Absence of Justice. She mentioned

1002
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 2: a twelve year old in Atlanta being sent in the penitentiary.

1003
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts? Reach out to us at eight

1004
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 2: hundred four or five zero seventy eighth seventy six and

1005
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 2: we'll take your phone calls next and Grand Rising family,

1006
01:01:57,400 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 2: thanks for starting your Thursday with us. It's twenty minutes alfter.

1007
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 2: It's there. I guess is Tracy Rokenshaw. She's written a

1008
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 2: book called The Absence of Justice. It's the untold stories

1009
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 2: of young Black children's sentence to the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary.

1010
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 2: She shared with us one of the persons in her book,

1011
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 2: a twelve year old Preston, and what he was sentenced

1012
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 2: for a sentence of penitentiary, you know, depends only where

1013
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 2: hard criminals are. This is a twelve year old child,

1014
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 2: So Tracy, before we left for the break, he will

1015
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 2: tell us about his parents, Where were his parents and

1016
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:26,280
Speaker 2: all this.

1017
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 9: So it's important to remember that the country was devastated

1018
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 9: by yellow fever at the around the end of the

1019
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 9: eighteen hundreds, and Preston was born in eighteen ninety three,

1020
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 9: just two years before my great great grandfather was born.

1021
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:45,920
Speaker 9: And so we are assuming, because there's a lot that

1022
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:48,000
Speaker 9: we don't know in the public record, we have to

1023
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 9: go by what we can piece together these fragments of information.

1024
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 9: And so we assume that both of his parents were lost,

1025
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 9: maybe during that fever, or they were killed or in

1026
01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 9: some way, because he was basically on the street. And also, Carl,

1027
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 9: it's important to note that during this time, there weren't

1028
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 9: a lot of opportunities for orphanages. For young black children,

1029
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 9: especially where he was in Jacksonville, Florida, which is where

1030
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 9: he came from. And so he was pretty much raising

1031
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 9: himself the best that he could, and he was supporting

1032
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 9: himself on the street as what they turned back then

1033
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:20,919
Speaker 9: a boot black, but we call it a shoeshine boy,

1034
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 9: and that is what we believe why he found himself

1035
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 9: on the white side of town on the fourth of

1036
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 9: July when he was arrested after picking up a piece

1037
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 9: of mail that, according to the police, had some value

1038
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 9: in it. So I'm assuming that it had some piece

1039
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 9: of money in it. But from that there were no

1040
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 9: outreaches from the court system to get him any kind

1041
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 9: of housing, permanent housing, or to get him There were

1042
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 9: churches almost on every corner, but there wasn't. They didn't

1043
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 9: appear to be any reach out from the court. They

1044
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 9: took him very quickly, put him in front of a

1045
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 9: grand jury, believe it or not, and then the next

1046
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 9: thing we know, he is off to Atlanta into the

1047
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 9: Federal PENITENTI doing hard time for picking up a piece

1048
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 9: of mail.

1049
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 2: How much time did you do?

1050
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 9: Three years?

1051
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 2: Three years? Wow, I'm still a child.

1052
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 9: He's still a child. When he was released he was

1053
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 9: fifteen years old, he wasn't literate, and so you know,

1054
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 9: many people have contacted me asking, you know, was I

1055
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:22,920
Speaker 9: able to contact his family and what happened to Preston?

1056
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 9: And I said, you know, that's kind of like Hollywood ending.

1057
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 9: We would love to be able to track all of

1058
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 9: the children down in the book, but to be honest,

1059
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 9: you know, that's a time where there wasn't a lot

1060
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 9: of public information, and so he pretty much blended back

1061
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 9: into the shadows. And one of the reasons we wrote

1062
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 9: the book the way that we did. It's an archival

1063
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 9: piece because it's a calling card for genealogists and people

1064
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 9: and families to get this book and come find your people,

1065
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 9: because we can't tell the endings of their stories. We

1066
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 9: know that they are no longer with us. But it's

1067
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 9: going to take families going in that book and looking

1068
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 9: in the back and finding Grandpa and looking at the

1069
01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:59,600
Speaker 9: intake for him and being able to share with us

1070
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:01,920
Speaker 9: what happen happened to them and how they built or

1071
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 9: rebuilt their lives and help us to expand American history twenty.

1072
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 2: Four after the top down, Tracy, is just just what

1073
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 2: you've told me about the book, you know, I'm thinking

1074
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 2: about young Preston. Somebody should do a documentary, a movie

1075
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 2: or something about this and tell this story on the screen.

1076
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 2: You know, the book came out last year the end

1077
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:23,560
Speaker 2: of last year. So as folks and any of the

1078
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 2: Hollywood folks or any of our black documentarians have reached

1079
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 2: out to you want to do it. Put this on

1080
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 2: the screen, show the greater black world can see it.

1081
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 9: I've not been in talks about doing a documentary because

1082
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 9: we have to understand that there's a limited amount of

1083
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 9: information that we know, because it was very difficult to

1084
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 9: piece these fragments together, and so the only way unless

1085
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 9: a family member were to come forward and complete the story,

1086
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 9: then we would have to transition it from you know,

1087
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 9: from a non fiction into a fiction and create an ending.

1088
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 9: Now we do have his record in the prison, and

1089
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 9: one of the things I can tell you a common

1090
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 9: thing with all of the children to be able to

1091
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 9: control them because they were babies and so they were

1092
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 9: you know, running and playing because any environment that a

1093
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 9: child is in, they will turn it into a playground.

1094
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 9: And so we know that the tactics used in those

1095
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 9: prisons were to almost starve them to death. He was

1096
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 9: surviving on very little food and water at one point

1097
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 9: and put in solitary confinement just because he was laughing,

1098
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 9: And we have the record showing why he was put

1099
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 9: in solitary confinement. So to answer your question, no, but

1100
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 9: you know, again, there's not a lot of information that

1101
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 9: gives us the completion of what happened, or really too

1102
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 9: much before. We have the information that comes from the

1103
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 9: prison and that's how we're able to piece together his story.

1104
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 2: Wow, what a story, though, Tracy. Do you think he

1105
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:49,160
Speaker 2: understood could he process at twelve years old where he

1106
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:51,720
Speaker 2: was and why he was in the position that he was.

1107
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 2: Did you think twelve year olds he understood that because

1108
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 2: you said, you know, Tolia are still playing. Did he

1109
01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 2: thought it was just like, you know, going off the

1110
01:06:59,320 --> 01:06:59,959
Speaker 2: camp or something.

1111
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 9: Well, I think that for him to survive on the street,

1112
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 9: he probably was a little tougher than the average twelve

1113
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 9: year old because he probably encountered a whole bunch of

1114
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 9: unsavor characters and he needed to survive. But with that said,

1115
01:07:13,720 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 9: he's still a baby and his mind was still developing

1116
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 9: and cognitively, I don't necessarily know if he understood all

1117
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 9: of the nuances of the court system and why he

1118
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 9: was there. But I know that from the records that

1119
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:32,440
Speaker 9: we have, and one of the chapters not to be crude,

1120
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 9: I labeled one of the sections from his discipline reports

1121
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 9: where he pretty much told the guard where he could

1122
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 9: go and explicit curse words. And so I'm sure that

1123
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 9: he probably did not understand everything that was going on.

1124
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 9: I mean, me reading it at fifty seven, I don't

1125
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 9: really understand it and my brain can't manage it that well.

1126
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 9: But again, I mean, you know, God gives children coping mechanisms,

1127
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 9: we as black people have all I always had that,

1128
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 9: you know, Doctor Edwin Nichols teaches us that about our

1129
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 9: ability to cope, and I think that's what he was

1130
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 9: doing in these in these walls.

1131
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 2: Wow, what a story twenty seven at the top of

1132
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 2: their family. You want to get in on this conversation,

1133
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 2: like guess. Tracy rookeuld Shaw reach out to us at

1134
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:18,839
Speaker 2: eight hundred four five zero seventy eighth seventy six discussing

1135
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 2: her latest book. She's an historian and an author. In

1136
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 2: the book is called The Absence of Justice. It tells

1137
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 2: the untold stories of young black children sentenced to the

1138
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,960
Speaker 2: Atlanta Federal penitentiary, she shared one with us. Preston, a

1139
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 2: twelve year old picked up a piece of mail on

1140
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 2: the street and then he was arrested. And it's happened

1141
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:37,600
Speaker 2: in the things you mentioned. It was happening on the

1142
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 2: fourth of July, which whatever that means for them, you know,

1143
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:45,800
Speaker 2: that was interesting. But Tracy, how long did this penitentiary state?

1144
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 2: How long were they doing this incarcerating our babies?

1145
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 9: Well, specifically in this facility that we looked at, it

1146
01:08:56,080 --> 01:09:00,600
Speaker 9: was created in nineteen oh two, and so once it

1147
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 9: was created, and now I can't say for a cross

1148
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 9: and as it relates to state prisons because we didn't

1149
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 9: look at all the state prisons, but for this federal institution,

1150
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 9: it seemed like once it was up, it was an

1151
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:15,600
Speaker 9: ongoing flow of young people in that system. So I

1152
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 9: said twelve Preston was twelve. We also found, you know,

1153
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:21,760
Speaker 9: a thirteen year old, a fourteen year old. And what

1154
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 9: I will tell you is right now we are working

1155
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 9: with Senator John Ossouf's office in hopes to get a

1156
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 9: Senate resolution, and we're working on that so that we

1157
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 9: can have Preston's incarceration and grants incarceration. The twelve and

1158
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 9: the thirteen year old, to have that documented as a

1159
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 9: part of the US Congressional record, to acknowledge that these children,

1160
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 9: at this time, when the law was not being fairly applied,

1161
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 9: were incarcerated in a federal facility. At one point we

1162
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 9: had talked about, you know, we really wanted for these

1163
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 9: children to be posthumously pardoned, but in the current environ

1164
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:02,200
Speaker 9: I don't know that that would be possible. So we

1165
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:04,800
Speaker 9: are working very hard to try to get them their

1166
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:08,719
Speaker 9: stories included in the official congressional record of the country.

1167
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:11,760
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for doing that. You wrote the book

1168
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 2: and you could have dropped it right there, but you

1169
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 2: you know, you take it to the next level. And

1170
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 2: hopefully Hobbshaws will get re elected again because he's he's

1171
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 2: looking good down there where he is. The Republicans are

1172
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,479
Speaker 2: catching hell right now, so hopefully, you know that can

1173
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 2: be a reality. But let me ask you this though, Tracy,

1174
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 2: some of the other boys, did you ever figure out

1175
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 2: what happened after they were released? Were you able to

1176
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:37,080
Speaker 2: track them down or you know, because a twelve year old,

1177
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 2: if you go into the penitentiary, you're going to be

1178
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 2: You're going to be You're gonna be institutionalized and that's

1179
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 2: life because you especially at twelve years old, that's you

1180
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:48,560
Speaker 2: don't know any other sort of formal life. You know,

1181
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:52,599
Speaker 2: you become institutionalizing and the prison becomes your home. That's

1182
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,599
Speaker 2: where you grew up. If you figured out what happened

1183
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 2: once they were released, how do they adjust to society?

1184
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:01,400
Speaker 2: Is that is that part of your research?

1185
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 9: Well, again, we follow the records until they go cold.

1186
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 9: And what I will say is the very I don't

1187
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:14,679
Speaker 9: what's the word, the way that they were put into prison,

1188
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,679
Speaker 9: the level of care and consideration of putting a baby

1189
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 9: in jail was kind of the way the records showed

1190
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 9: them being released. And let's say for present specifically, I

1191
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:25,679
Speaker 9: said he was fifteen when he was released. They didn't

1192
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:28,760
Speaker 9: show him being handed off to someone, you know, an

1193
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:32,240
Speaker 9: adult signing him out. They didn't show him or have

1194
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:34,600
Speaker 9: record that they gave him money. So we don't know

1195
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 9: if he ended up living in Atlanta or if he

1196
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 9: went back to Florida. And that's the thing for almost

1197
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 9: all of the children in this book. They don't really

1198
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 9: give you a record of what happened. It was kind

1199
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 9: of like very callous. They didn't they didn't have a

1200
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 9: lot of care about documenting how they released it. Once

1201
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 9: your turn was over, and then you know, you were

1202
01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:55,800
Speaker 9: you were set free. And so unless you know someone

1203
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 9: comes forward and says, hey, well that's my grandfather. And

1204
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:00,160
Speaker 9: when he left there, he ended up, you know, come

1205
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 9: into Washington, d c. And he built this amazing business,

1206
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 9: or you know he worked here for years. We're not

1207
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:08,759
Speaker 9: gonna know, which is why the book is a calling

1208
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:12,680
Speaker 9: card for genealogists to come and find their people out

1209
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:14,960
Speaker 9: and find their families and help us to tell the story.

1210
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 9: One of the children, I will say this, he was

1211
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:20,560
Speaker 9: fifteen years old, and to your point, I wanted to

1212
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:24,360
Speaker 9: show what happens when you take a young person and

1213
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 9: you submerge them in an environment like this and then

1214
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:29,600
Speaker 9: come out and you don't really have a lot of resources.

1215
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 9: We show his beautiful face at fifteen, where his eyes

1216
01:12:33,640 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 9: are bright and just you know, and hopeful, and then

1217
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 9: we found him again about nineteen or twenty years later,

1218
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 9: where he had at that point been in the system

1219
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:47,519
Speaker 9: a couple of times, and his appearance is dramatically different.

1220
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 9: It looked like the pain of life had just been

1221
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:53,880
Speaker 9: etched in his face and that started. That was not

1222
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 9: the way he looked when they got him when he

1223
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 9: was fifteen years old. So we do put that those

1224
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 9: pictures in there so that you can see him and

1225
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:03,960
Speaker 9: hopefully again his family will come forward and tell us.

1226
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:07,040
Speaker 2: What happened to him and family, that's what it's important

1227
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:09,840
Speaker 2: to sit down with your elders and have these conversations

1228
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 2: and record them and just telling hey, grandpa, what happened,

1229
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:14,720
Speaker 2: how did you grow up? What was what was going

1230
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 2: on back then. You'll be amazed at some of the stories.

1231
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:19,280
Speaker 2: And this is important. Maybe we could have find Preston's

1232
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 2: parents if you're listening out there at twenty year away

1233
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 2: from the top of our family. Just checking in. As

1234
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:27,640
Speaker 2: Tracy Rookenshaw discussing her book The Absence of Justice, it

1235
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 2: tells on stoles untold stories of young black children who

1236
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:33,639
Speaker 2: are sentenced to the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary, and she mentioned

1237
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 2: one or twelve year old Preston. Wow, let's go to Raymond.

1238
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 2: Raymond's checking in from Capitol Hilly's online. One grand rising Raymond.

1239
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 2: You're want with Tracy, Yeah, yeah, get closed to our phone. Raymond.

1240
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 8: Yes, a good morning. I'll do time in that penitentiary.

1241
01:13:55,120 --> 01:14:03,519
Speaker 8: I had a PENITENTIARYC prison system sent me there m M.

1242
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 8: When they closed Lord Reformatory, they sent inmates through the

1243
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:16,560
Speaker 8: federal system. That was the first prison I went in.

1244
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:30,479
Speaker 8: I was, I was about I was about I think

1245
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:31,280
Speaker 8: forty five.

1246
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 2: Then it's it's a very well, well, Raymond, What was

1247
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 2: it like for you? What was it because you are

1248
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 2: forty five and you know it wasn't back then when

1249
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:44,560
Speaker 2: when Preston was was twelve years old? What was she

1250
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:47,679
Speaker 2: like in that prison in Atlanta?

1251
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 8: That was in two thousand and seven, if my memory

1252
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 8: served me correctly, when I went there when they had

1253
01:14:56,320 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 8: closed Lord Reformatory, they had sent in DC and MA

1254
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:02,800
Speaker 8: all over the country, and that was the first prison

1255
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 8: I had went to, a Lanti fag of prison.

1256
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:08,439
Speaker 4: And it was terrible. It was.

1257
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 8: It was it's an old prison. They had remodeled or

1258
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:20,519
Speaker 8: tried to remodel it far as inside, but they still

1259
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 8: had a remnants of the old prison. And you can

1260
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:31,519
Speaker 8: certain positive prison. You can see the ghosts if you

1261
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:38,879
Speaker 8: can feel it. It was terrible and just so many memories.

1262
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:43,720
Speaker 8: Hearing this interview from this lady about the book. You know,

1263
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:49,560
Speaker 8: I was kind of cautious about calling, even mentioning that

1264
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:53,960
Speaker 8: I've been there. It rejuvenated so many memories of that.

1265
01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 8: It was like going to a haunted house.

1266
01:15:58,479 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 4: It was terrible.

1267
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:02,800
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, how do you think a

1268
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:04,640
Speaker 2: twelve year old would survive? Because you you were you

1269
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,040
Speaker 2: were an adult when you went to that prison in Atlanta?

1270
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 2: How do you think of twelve year old maneuver there.

1271
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 8: I can imagine the horrors because back then when he went,

1272
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:22,560
Speaker 8: it was all white staff. When I went, most of

1273
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 8: the staff was all black, from the warden going down

1274
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 8: to the correctional officers. They had very few white staff

1275
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:38,479
Speaker 8: members there. So I can imagine when he went it

1276
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:45,000
Speaker 8: was all white, and I can imagine the horrors that

1277
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:49,040
Speaker 8: he had to endure to survive. The fact that he

1278
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 8: got released and he was alive, that's a testament to himself.

1279
01:16:57,479 --> 01:16:57,599
Speaker 3: Right.

1280
01:16:58,240 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 8: I just can't imagine. I can imagine what he went through.

1281
01:17:03,479 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 2: And Raymond, we got to take a break. Thank you

1282
01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:06,880
Speaker 2: for sharing your story with us, and we get Tracy

1283
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 2: respond to what you just shared with us again, where

1284
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 2: Preston went through? Twelve year old family just checking in,

1285
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:14,760
Speaker 2: I guess is Tracy rooked Shaw. She's his story and

1286
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:16,600
Speaker 2: she's also an author. She's written a book called The

1287
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:20,600
Speaker 2: Absence of Justice. It tells the nonstalls, untold stories of

1288
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:23,439
Speaker 2: young black children sentence to the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary. You

1289
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:26,439
Speaker 2: just heard Raymond says he's been there, he was incarcerating there.

1290
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:29,080
Speaker 2: But a twelve year old child was incarcerated there. And

1291
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 2: this is what part of the story that Tracy's telling us.

1292
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts you want to get in on

1293
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:35,640
Speaker 2: this conversation, Like Raymond did just reach out to us

1294
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:38,840
Speaker 2: at eight hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy

1295
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:40,840
Speaker 2: six and were ticket phone calls after we checked the news,

1296
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:44,080
Speaker 2: trafficking weather, that's next and Grand Rising family, thanks for

1297
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 2: starting your Thursday with us and our guest Tracy rooked Shaw.

1298
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:49,639
Speaker 2: She's written a book. Tyl of the book is The Absence,

1299
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:52,840
Speaker 2: Absence of Justice. It's the ontold stories of young Black

1300
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 2: children sentence to the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary. She shared the

1301
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 2: story of us and she was doing some research and

1302
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 2: found out the twelve year old Preston It was Alna Streets,

1303
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:03,679
Speaker 2: a shoeshine boy back in the day, and he picked

1304
01:18:03,720 --> 01:18:07,200
Speaker 2: up a letter, a piece of mail on the street

1305
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:09,719
Speaker 2: and he was arrested with that because he probably contained

1306
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 2: money as whatever they say they did. But the twelve

1307
01:18:11,640 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 2: year old was sent to the penitentiary. Just imagine that,

1308
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:16,840
Speaker 2: a twelve year old being sent to the penitentiary for

1309
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 2: what sort of a crime. And you think for yourself, Therefore,

1310
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 2: the grace of God go I. If I was born

1311
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:24,240
Speaker 2: in another time in space, I could have been impressed

1312
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:27,479
Speaker 2: in and it just just a child being sentenced to

1313
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:30,479
Speaker 2: a penitentiary. We hardened criminals, you know, back in the day.

1314
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 2: This is what happened. This is what Tracy researched. Tracy,

1315
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:34,760
Speaker 2: I want to get your response to what Raymonds is

1316
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 2: because he did time in that prison as well. He

1317
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:38,240
Speaker 2: shared with us this morning.

1318
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:43,680
Speaker 9: I thought something very interesting about he said, which was

1319
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:46,519
Speaker 9: that the ghost well he felt that were in the

1320
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:49,040
Speaker 9: walls and that they, you know, made an effort to

1321
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:52,439
Speaker 9: try to reconstruct or clean that facility up. What I

1322
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:55,800
Speaker 9: wanted to say is that during Preston's time, there was

1323
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:59,800
Speaker 9: an infamous warden who was there, William Moyer, and he

1324
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:05,160
Speaker 9: he had a horrific reputation for brutalizing the men in

1325
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:09,639
Speaker 9: the prison. There were reports of him leaving men chain

1326
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 9: to steal pipes who were burning alive, and they were

1327
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 9: just being tortured in a number of ways, and so

1328
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:22,120
Speaker 9: as though if Pressing's plight was not difficult enough. Unfortunately

1329
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 9: he came across this warden before he was actually ousted

1330
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:30,600
Speaker 9: from the prison. And so this this warden took what

1331
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:34,320
Speaker 9: appears to be great pleasure in torturing Preston. And so

1332
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 9: from his presents disciplined records, he was again I think

1333
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:43,960
Speaker 9: I mentioned earlier, surviving on very limited food. Sometimes they

1334
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:46,240
Speaker 9: would give pressed in a slice of bread and very

1335
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:49,320
Speaker 9: limited water. And so I am certain by the time

1336
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:53,840
Speaker 9: that he was after a year or so, he would

1337
01:19:53,920 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 9: he had to be skeletal, because he already went in

1338
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,800
Speaker 9: and he wasn't one hundred pounds, and again he did,

1339
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 9: he was not five feet So there were intentional to

1340
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:08,120
Speaker 9: his point people in there that I mean, they terrorized

1341
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:11,320
Speaker 9: black inmates, and that did not start with Preston. They

1342
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:12,599
Speaker 9: terrorized him as well.

1343
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:16,200
Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned bread and water, and we used

1344
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:19,040
Speaker 2: to hear about that they are prisons, but now you're

1345
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:21,800
Speaker 2: bringing it into reality. Your research has shown that that's

1346
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:26,240
Speaker 2: what really was given to inmates. Yeah, they weren't getting

1347
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 2: cereals and a steak, bread and water, a twelve year

1348
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:32,600
Speaker 2: old family. Let that sink in. Let me say this.

1349
01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:34,920
Speaker 2: We got to get a copy of this book and

1350
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 2: pass it on to your family and friends, because it's

1351
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:40,600
Speaker 2: the kind of information that this particular administration does not

1352
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,280
Speaker 2: want out in the open. They don't want us to

1353
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 2: talk about this. They don't want us to know about this.

1354
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:47,519
Speaker 2: I'm sure I got a couple of tweets from people

1355
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:50,160
Speaker 2: who are just angry right now. They want to come

1356
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:53,559
Speaker 2: through the radio and just go snatch and just calm down.

1357
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:56,439
Speaker 2: People who sent me those those tweets, just calm down.

1358
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:58,720
Speaker 2: You know, we figured out another way to get to

1359
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:02,439
Speaker 2: get to get revenge for Preston. Anyway, let me get

1360
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:04,360
Speaker 2: up my soapbox. He had thirteen away from the top

1361
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:06,960
Speaker 2: of our Sister Famas checking in from Washington, DC wants

1362
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:09,200
Speaker 2: to speak to Tracy Grant Rising and sister for him.

1363
01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:10,040
Speaker 2: Now you're on with Tracy.

1364
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:14,040
Speaker 10: Good morning, mister Nelson, and thank you for taking mccalling

1365
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 10: greetings to your guest. Two point things. I did come

1366
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:21,519
Speaker 10: across the story a few years ago when I was

1367
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:26,480
Speaker 10: doing research for a course I was teaching on juvenile delinquency,

1368
01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 10: and as I was building my currithum. I did come

1369
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:33,760
Speaker 10: across the story about the Atlanta Federal prison where they

1370
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 10: were spending children to us, so I will definitely get

1371
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:39,800
Speaker 10: a copy of your book. But I also learned to

1372
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:44,600
Speaker 10: raise that kind of like history is repeating itself. Congressman

1373
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:50,599
Speaker 10: Byron Donald's from Florida reintroduced a DC crime built during

1374
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:56,479
Speaker 10: the time when Trump was sending the Reserve here, the

1375
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 10: National Guard.

1376
01:21:57,360 --> 01:21:58,000
Speaker 9: Here in d C.

1377
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 10: And he introduced a legislation to charge youth as adult.

1378
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:09,160
Speaker 10: And as you know, DF doesn't have the autonomy that

1379
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 10: most jurisdictions do. Congress pretty much tries to overrule the

1380
01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 10: district of Columba. And the irony is that, and Congresswoman

1381
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:23,600
Speaker 10: Jasmine Crockett calls him out on this. The irony is

1382
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:27,520
Speaker 10: is that Byron Donalds is, you know, putting forth legislation

1383
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:33,080
Speaker 10: to charge youth as adults, and he himself as was

1384
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 10: subject to being having his sins expunged if you will,

1385
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:42,040
Speaker 10: And I'm not sure if you're familiar with the legislation

1386
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:45,280
Speaker 10: was put forth to charge youth as as as an

1387
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:50,559
Speaker 10: adult by Congressman by Byron Donalds. So anyway, that's all

1388
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:52,120
Speaker 10: I wanted to share, and I will definitely get a

1389
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:53,000
Speaker 10: copy of the book.

1390
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:56,840
Speaker 2: All right, thanks sister for human Tracy. I want to

1391
01:22:56,880 --> 01:22:58,720
Speaker 2: respond with what she just shared with us.

1392
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 9: Well, of course, I think it's quite disturbing, and that

1393
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 9: specific legislation, I can't really speak to it, but I

1394
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:10,160
Speaker 9: do am familiar with the congressman, and so I think

1395
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 9: that that is why we have to be very vocal

1396
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 9: and protective of all of our children and make sure

1397
01:23:17,240 --> 01:23:19,600
Speaker 9: that we are a part of this legislative process. And

1398
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 9: it goes back to what I was saying earlier about

1399
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:26,000
Speaker 9: these dog whistles that are out there and then surrounding

1400
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:30,160
Speaker 9: the most vulnerable in our community, and that was children

1401
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:33,280
Speaker 9: back then, and it's our children now. And so whether

1402
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 9: it is someone who looks like us and who doesn't

1403
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:39,160
Speaker 9: look like us, who has the motive of being able

1404
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:42,000
Speaker 9: to restrain the black community, and we all have to

1405
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 9: owd equally, if not more accountable, those who should be

1406
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:49,320
Speaker 9: working and helping us strengthen our community when they are

1407
01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:53,040
Speaker 9: trying to put forth legislation that is not in the

1408
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:56,840
Speaker 9: best interest it's specifically of our young people. So I'm

1409
01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 9: familiar with him, not familiar with the specific legislation, but

1410
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:02,760
Speaker 9: it is about as like you and other people who

1411
01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 9: continue to elevate when they when they hear of this

1412
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:09,560
Speaker 9: type of reform coming I mean legislation coming forward, so

1413
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:12,120
Speaker 9: that we can all band together and make sure that

1414
01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:13,200
Speaker 9: our voices are heard to.

1415
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:13,960
Speaker 4: Try to prevent it.

1416
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:17,760
Speaker 2: All right, thanks, sister fan. Let me just add on

1417
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 2: that barn Donalds is a Republican. He's now a concier

1418
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:25,679
Speaker 2: now is running for governor of Florida. Our family in Florida.

1419
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:27,559
Speaker 2: Let's you know what to do. He's running for governor

1420
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 2: and he's leading in the polls. He's been endorsed by

1421
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:32,840
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. So and he himself, a sister for the

1422
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:36,160
Speaker 2: EMA pointed out, have some infractions on his record and

1423
01:24:36,200 --> 01:24:38,280
Speaker 2: he's trying to get an expunge. But Ittill, he wants

1424
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:42,000
Speaker 2: to criminalize our young young children's that's just well, you

1425
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:45,280
Speaker 2: know what to do. Family. But anyway, Tracy, Uh, I

1426
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 2: want to ask you about your other book two, The

1427
01:24:47,160 --> 01:24:50,519
Speaker 2: Ghost of Douglas County Frederick Douglas. How did that come about?

1428
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:55,080
Speaker 9: Well, I, as I sayd, I live in Metro Atlanta,

1429
01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:57,920
Speaker 9: and specifically the county that I live in is called

1430
01:24:58,240 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 9: Douglas spelled with one as, and so when I moved

1431
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:03,439
Speaker 9: here years ago, I really didn't think much about the

1432
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:06,559
Speaker 9: naming of it, because if you know anything about especially

1433
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:09,840
Speaker 9: the South, there were many things twenty years ago that

1434
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:13,280
Speaker 9: were named after Confederate soldiers and just all kind of foolishness.

1435
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:16,240
Speaker 9: So I really didn't pay that much attention. But once

1436
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 9: I got grafted into at the local African American community,

1437
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:23,080
Speaker 9: I was hearing the story over and over again that

1438
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:27,040
Speaker 9: back years ago in eighteen seventy, that the county was

1439
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:30,479
Speaker 9: originally named for Frederick Douglass, but they ended up changing it.

1440
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:33,439
Speaker 9: And I had heard that, but it was my encounter

1441
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:35,680
Speaker 9: with one of our elders who was about to turn

1442
01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 9: a hundred, and she told me that when she was

1443
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:40,640
Speaker 9: a child, it was frequently known her parents and their

1444
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 9: friends talked about it. And she said, well, you know,

1445
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:47,120
Speaker 9: I don't have any written proof, but I've always believed

1446
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:49,000
Speaker 9: it to be true. And it was just something about

1447
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:51,320
Speaker 9: her story and the way that she talked about it.

1448
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:55,000
Speaker 9: It was so authentic that it just had the ring

1449
01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:57,360
Speaker 9: of truth to it when it came from her. And

1450
01:25:57,479 --> 01:26:01,519
Speaker 9: so it started me on this path to to find

1451
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:05,599
Speaker 9: whether find out whether or not Frederick Douglas indeed had

1452
01:26:05,640 --> 01:26:08,000
Speaker 9: some sort of connection to this area that is just

1453
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 9: west of Atlanta, about twenty miles because I actually worked

1454
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:16,600
Speaker 9: downtown Atlanta. And so after much research, when we definitively

1455
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:19,200
Speaker 9: found out that there were connections to the genesis of

1456
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:21,360
Speaker 9: this county, well that's.

1457
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:22,840
Speaker 2: Another book we need to pick up, the ghost of

1458
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:25,200
Speaker 2: Douglas County. Let me ask you this, though every city

1459
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:28,880
Speaker 2: we've got Martin Luther King of Boulevard Street, Avenue or whatever,

1460
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:32,200
Speaker 2: and it's usually the worst part of town, got to

1461
01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:36,519
Speaker 2: shape straight up. But Douglas County right now, is it

1462
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:37,320
Speaker 2: predominant black?

1463
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:40,800
Speaker 5: You know it is now?

1464
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:44,599
Speaker 9: When initially when I moved out here twenty years ago,

1465
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:49,160
Speaker 9: it was not. It was probably eighty twenty and it

1466
01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:54,880
Speaker 9: is completely flipped in the year in twenty fourteen, I

1467
01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:59,040
Speaker 9: actually became the first black woman to be sworn in

1468
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:01,519
Speaker 9: on the Bard of Education, and I served as the

1469
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:04,719
Speaker 9: chair of the Board of Education out here for close

1470
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:07,000
Speaker 9: to a decade, and I'm still on the Board of Education.

1471
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:09,960
Speaker 9: I just retired as chair and I'll be retiring from

1472
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:11,840
Speaker 9: the board at the end of the year. So the

1473
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:16,840
Speaker 9: demographics have shifted significantly in the last twenty years.

1474
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:19,840
Speaker 2: I got to ask you this since you involved in education,

1475
01:27:20,600 --> 01:27:23,000
Speaker 2: is this taught in the schools in that county that

1476
01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:25,360
Speaker 2: you know the name for Frederick Douglas.

1477
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:28,440
Speaker 4: We teach educators.

1478
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:31,280
Speaker 9: And one of the things that I just completed not

1479
01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:35,080
Speaker 9: long ago was a conference for educators, not just local

1480
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:37,200
Speaker 9: but for the state of Georgia. I came in and

1481
01:27:37,320 --> 01:27:41,400
Speaker 9: I talked this specific I created a curriculum that talked

1482
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:44,400
Speaker 9: about it. Here's the thing, when you're in an area

1483
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 9: and they have an existing history, you're always going to

1484
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:51,680
Speaker 9: have a historians who are considered the county historians. And

1485
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:54,479
Speaker 9: so this has been a huge debate in the county

1486
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:58,439
Speaker 9: because we as doctor chiquh A. Kula stressed to me,

1487
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 9: when I almost threw in the towel stop the research.

1488
01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:04,560
Speaker 9: I was going into the to the archives with this

1489
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 9: mindset that I could that African history was going to

1490
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:10,760
Speaker 9: be documented the same way as European history, and I

1491
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 9: was bumping my head. And so when I realized that

1492
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:16,600
Speaker 9: that was not the case, and I stopped looking for

1493
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 9: these very beautifully written, typed up, perfectly notarized documents, and

1494
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 9: I had to shift my lens and start looking for

1495
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:30,439
Speaker 9: fragments of information and actually starting to build the framework

1496
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 9: for our history that changed everything. And so what happens

1497
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:37,960
Speaker 9: is to your question about curriculum, there is a debate

1498
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:42,439
Speaker 9: whether they can, whether you they will entrust what's written

1499
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 9: and typed, or whether they will accept the histories that

1500
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:48,759
Speaker 9: we've had to build from the fragments.

1501
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:51,760
Speaker 2: I got to answer you these on the educational piece

1502
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:54,640
Speaker 2: because as an educator, do and help us out with

1503
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:57,160
Speaker 2: because you know, we have a lot of predominant black

1504
01:28:57,240 --> 01:29:01,799
Speaker 2: school districts across the country. As educators, they can infuse

1505
01:29:02,160 --> 01:29:04,679
Speaker 2: information like your books. Can they bring those books into

1506
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:07,720
Speaker 2: the classroom and teach out you about their history, or

1507
01:29:09,479 --> 01:29:11,640
Speaker 2: a state control the curriculum and tell them what they

1508
01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:12,200
Speaker 2: have to teach.

1509
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:16,960
Speaker 9: Well, there are certain standards that are required by each state,

1510
01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:20,080
Speaker 9: and the classrooms have to teach to the standards. And

1511
01:29:20,240 --> 01:29:23,760
Speaker 9: so it depends on how restrictive those districts are and

1512
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:28,960
Speaker 9: how they do that. Because remember, everything unfortunately comes down

1513
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:32,559
Speaker 9: to an exam, and so the curriculum that is infused

1514
01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:35,400
Speaker 9: in the classroom, all of it. They like for it

1515
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:40,040
Speaker 9: to go towards being able to prepare for you know,

1516
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:44,479
Speaker 9: a range of exams that might happen in certain subject areas.

1517
01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:50,519
Speaker 9: So it depends on the level of the rigidness of

1518
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:53,800
Speaker 9: the district and whether or not the curriculum can be

1519
01:29:57,080 --> 01:29:59,799
Speaker 9: what is the word acceptable in terms of it relating

1520
01:29:59,840 --> 01:30:02,160
Speaker 9: to to the official standards that they have to teach to.

1521
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:05,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounded like a copper but hold I thought

1522
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 2: right there. When we come back, though, I want to

1523
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:09,080
Speaker 2: find out from you who needs to know this information

1524
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:12,280
Speaker 2: as a historian now andaslan author, who do you think

1525
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:14,600
Speaker 2: needs to know this information more? Our people are the

1526
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:16,400
Speaker 2: other folks. I want to get your response to that,

1527
01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:18,280
Speaker 2: but we got to step aside, get caught up in

1528
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:20,760
Speaker 2: the traffic and weather in our different cities four minutes

1529
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:22,160
Speaker 2: away from the top they our family. You want to

1530
01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 2: join our conversation with Tracy, reach out to us at

1531
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:27,800
Speaker 2: eight hundred four five zero seventy eight seventy sixtion. We'll

1532
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:29,840
Speaker 2: take your phone calls after we check the traffic. That's next.

1533
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:31,960
Speaker 2: Thanks for starting your Thursday with Usten our guests, the

1534
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:36,200
Speaker 2: Tracy rookerd Shaw. Tracy's written, she's an author, she's a historian.

1535
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:38,400
Speaker 2: I guess she's an historian. First, Tracy's that it is,

1536
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,559
Speaker 2: and then he started put on what you found out

1537
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:43,960
Speaker 2: on paper? Is that how it's all started for you.

1538
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:50,040
Speaker 9: It was I am a card carrying NERD, so I

1539
01:30:50,160 --> 01:30:55,160
Speaker 9: do enjoy doing granular research. So the historian is first,

1540
01:30:55,240 --> 01:30:58,720
Speaker 9: and then I ended up putting pen to paper. But

1541
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:00,960
Speaker 9: if I could call, I would like to tell you,

1542
01:31:01,240 --> 01:31:03,080
Speaker 9: if it's okay in the last couple of minutes, who

1543
01:31:03,160 --> 01:31:05,720
Speaker 9: the ghosts are in Douglas County. Would we have time

1544
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:05,960
Speaker 9: for that?

1545
01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:06,760
Speaker 8: Sure?

1546
01:31:06,840 --> 01:31:11,000
Speaker 9: Go ahead, So the ghosts of Douglas County. While while

1547
01:31:11,080 --> 01:31:13,120
Speaker 9: the book and most people look at it, and when

1548
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:14,840
Speaker 9: you see the cover up, you're going to see an

1549
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:17,519
Speaker 9: imprint of Frederick Douglas's space. What I want to make

1550
01:31:17,560 --> 01:31:23,600
Speaker 9: sure that everyone that remembers that in eighteen sixty eight, specifically,

1551
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:25,439
Speaker 9: I'm going to say for the state of Georgia, which

1552
01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:28,680
Speaker 9: is where I lived, that there were a number of men,

1553
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:33,080
Speaker 9: black men who were elected into our state legislature. It

1554
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:35,280
Speaker 9: were we had a number in the House, and we

1555
01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:38,479
Speaker 9: had three in the Senate. And it was the power

1556
01:31:38,640 --> 01:31:42,439
Speaker 9: of those who we call the original thirty three, the

1557
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:45,799
Speaker 9: power of those men that were shaping legislation across Georgia,

1558
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:49,080
Speaker 9: and that included them putting their vote together and they

1559
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:52,200
Speaker 9: always voted in a single block, and it was those

1560
01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:56,040
Speaker 9: black men who voted for the creation of Douglas County, Georgia,

1561
01:31:56,439 --> 01:31:59,640
Speaker 9: which once we did the intense and depth research, we

1562
01:31:59,680 --> 01:32:03,240
Speaker 9: found the original handwritten record signed by the governor, which

1563
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:05,360
Speaker 9: they provided to us in the National and I'm sorry,

1564
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:08,439
Speaker 9: in the Georgia Archives, where we did learn that at

1565
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:11,040
Speaker 9: one point this county was actually named Douglas spelled with

1566
01:32:11,120 --> 01:32:14,519
Speaker 9: two s's, and years later it was changed to Douglas

1567
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:15,160
Speaker 9: with one s.

1568
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:20,120
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that great information. Listen. If it's just Johnas's family,

1569
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:23,320
Speaker 2: I guess it's Tracy Rokidshaw. She's written two books. Well,

1570
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:25,720
Speaker 2: there's several books, but the books she's talking about is

1571
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 2: The Ghost of Douglas County. But the book that caught

1572
01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:30,519
Speaker 2: her eye was The Absence of Justice. This is her

1573
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:33,160
Speaker 2: latest book, and he tells the untold stories of young

1574
01:32:33,240 --> 01:32:36,519
Speaker 2: black children's sentence to the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary. She shared

1575
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:39,160
Speaker 2: with us the story of Preston, a twelve year old

1576
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:42,120
Speaker 2: picked up some news, picked up some paper on fourth

1577
01:32:42,160 --> 01:32:44,800
Speaker 2: of July, so a shoeshine boy, and he was sent

1578
01:32:44,880 --> 01:32:49,880
Speaker 2: to the penitentiary with hardened criminals. And Tracy, one of

1579
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:52,920
Speaker 2: our listeners in London, says, your guest work is very

1580
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:56,320
Speaker 2: necessary and valuable, shocking. At the same time, he goes

1581
01:32:56,360 --> 01:32:59,280
Speaker 2: on to say, I came across the information below just yesterday,

1582
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:02,400
Speaker 2: which also with Shack. I've never heard it before. So

1583
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:05,200
Speaker 2: much of the African story to research, and he sells you.

1584
01:33:05,320 --> 01:33:06,840
Speaker 2: Thank you, And it goes on to tell the story

1585
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:08,920
Speaker 2: about in the summer of sixty three, in the heat

1586
01:33:08,920 --> 01:33:10,760
Speaker 2: of the Civil Rights movement, a group of young girls,

1587
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:13,880
Speaker 2: some M's youngest twelve, were arrested for protesting segregation in

1588
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:17,559
Speaker 2: Americas Georgia. But what happened next remained a hidden chapter

1589
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:20,120
Speaker 2: of history for decades. And he shares with me a

1590
01:33:20,240 --> 01:33:23,360
Speaker 2: video exploring the Howard parents story, the story of the

1591
01:33:23,439 --> 01:33:27,320
Speaker 2: Lisburg Stockade girls who were held for weeks in a primitive,

1592
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:32,120
Speaker 2: dilapid Civil War era guard house, no bets, no work

1593
01:33:32,160 --> 01:33:35,160
Speaker 2: in plumbing, no contact with their terrified families. Were just

1594
01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:39,560
Speaker 2: protesters and there were children who faced unimaginable conditions for

1595
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:42,599
Speaker 2: the simple demand of equality. So he wanted to share

1596
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:44,439
Speaker 2: that with you. I guess it's something else put on

1597
01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:46,519
Speaker 2: your plate to look in. Have you heard about that before?

1598
01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:50,640
Speaker 9: I can't say specifically that I that I have, but

1599
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:54,240
Speaker 9: you know, there's so much history that we have not unearthed.

1600
01:33:54,760 --> 01:33:57,759
Speaker 9: And I will say in the in the Absence of Justice,

1601
01:33:57,800 --> 01:34:00,200
Speaker 9: once we got through the very short narrative, Death is

1602
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:04,719
Speaker 9: up front, we entitle the next section the unearthing, because

1603
01:34:05,479 --> 01:34:08,599
Speaker 9: much of our history is still buried. And it's very important,

1604
01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:10,719
Speaker 9: you know that we that we tell our stories.

1605
01:34:11,640 --> 01:34:14,080
Speaker 2: Oh, it's more than it's it's absolutely important because if

1606
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:17,080
Speaker 2: we don't tell our story, who will you know? Hopefully family,

1607
01:34:17,320 --> 01:34:20,200
Speaker 2: if you you know, know about the the Atlanta Federal

1608
01:34:20,240 --> 01:34:22,400
Speaker 2: Penitentiary home and this is again I'll say it's again,

1609
01:34:22,439 --> 01:34:24,679
Speaker 2: it's important for us to sit down with our elders,

1610
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:27,400
Speaker 2: our grandparents, it's still alive. We record them now, we

1611
01:34:27,479 --> 01:34:29,719
Speaker 2: got we could have wasted, so that you can pass

1612
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:31,360
Speaker 2: it on to the family so they know who we are.

1613
01:34:31,479 --> 01:34:33,439
Speaker 2: So many of so many of our families, we don't

1614
01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:34,679
Speaker 2: have these conversations anymore.

1615
01:34:34,720 --> 01:34:34,960
Speaker 4: We don't.

1616
01:34:35,040 --> 01:34:39,479
Speaker 2: We don't have you know, family reunions, Cousins don't know

1617
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:41,160
Speaker 2: their cousins and all that kind of stuff. We got

1618
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:42,679
Speaker 2: to cut that out. We got to get come together

1619
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:44,840
Speaker 2: and so we can preserve our story because they don't

1620
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:47,960
Speaker 2: want the stories that Tracy's telling us in her books.

1621
01:34:48,240 --> 01:34:51,240
Speaker 2: They don't want that to be known. So, Tracy, what's

1622
01:34:51,320 --> 01:34:52,560
Speaker 2: what's the next project for you?

1623
01:34:52,680 --> 01:34:52,840
Speaker 3: Now?

1624
01:34:54,800 --> 01:34:58,120
Speaker 9: Well, I want to be able to further expand on

1625
01:34:58,360 --> 01:35:01,080
Speaker 9: the black legislators from eighteenth sixty eight, of which we

1626
01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:05,439
Speaker 9: are commonly locally called them the original thirty three. There's

1627
01:35:05,479 --> 01:35:08,400
Speaker 9: a part even though that story has been told to

1628
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:12,320
Speaker 9: some extent. We just erected a plaque at our state

1629
01:35:12,400 --> 01:35:15,200
Speaker 9: capitol in their honor, But I don't really think they

1630
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:18,320
Speaker 9: understand how we got to that point. So we again

1631
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:21,080
Speaker 9: are gonna cast a very wide net and we're gonna

1632
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:26,800
Speaker 9: talk about the importation of Africans from the continent, and

1633
01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:32,680
Speaker 9: then what happened in eighteen o eight when the transatlantic

1634
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:35,759
Speaker 9: slave trade was stopped, and then how we got into

1635
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:40,080
Speaker 9: slave breeding, and how that slave breeding created these huge

1636
01:35:40,160 --> 01:35:44,879
Speaker 9: populations of black people, so that when the emancipation happened

1637
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:48,639
Speaker 9: and then the Reconstruction Act gave the right to black

1638
01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:50,920
Speaker 9: men to vote. This is how there were so many

1639
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:54,240
Speaker 9: black men in these pockets of the state of Georgia

1640
01:35:54,280 --> 01:35:56,280
Speaker 9: who were able to elect all of these black men

1641
01:35:56,360 --> 01:35:56,880
Speaker 9: to office.

1642
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:00,760
Speaker 2: And you know, just give us a description of the

1643
01:36:01,320 --> 01:36:04,240
Speaker 2: latest book, The Absence of Justice again for Lay.

1644
01:36:04,120 --> 01:36:08,480
Speaker 9: Comers, sure, so in the absence of justice. It documents

1645
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:11,000
Speaker 9: the story of young black children who were sentenced to

1646
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:14,200
Speaker 9: the Atlanta Federal Penitentiary. And for those who might think

1647
01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:17,680
Speaker 9: this is a Georgia book, it's not. These Atlanta. The

1648
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:22,000
Speaker 9: Atlanta Federal Penitentiary was the closest, the newly constructed and

1649
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:25,600
Speaker 9: the closest penitentiary to the states in the South. And

1650
01:36:26,080 --> 01:36:29,600
Speaker 9: they even took inmates from up the coast. And so

1651
01:36:29,800 --> 01:36:34,280
Speaker 9: you will find children in this book from Brooklyn, from Washington,

1652
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:37,360
Speaker 9: d c. You'll find them in from Kentucky, and then

1653
01:36:37,439 --> 01:36:40,400
Speaker 9: from all across the South. So it is a book

1654
01:36:40,520 --> 01:36:43,920
Speaker 9: that one gives you the context of how we got

1655
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:46,439
Speaker 9: here and the DNA of our culture and how we

1656
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:49,000
Speaker 9: got to the point where this was even allowable. And

1657
01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:51,599
Speaker 9: then the balance of the book, we wanted to pay

1658
01:36:52,080 --> 01:36:55,559
Speaker 9: really honor the children, so you will actually see their faces.

1659
01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:58,599
Speaker 9: We had their mugshots and intake forms, and you will

1660
01:36:59,280 --> 01:37:01,280
Speaker 9: be able to see what they were charged with and

1661
01:37:01,479 --> 01:37:03,560
Speaker 9: there's the length of time that they spent. So we

1662
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:06,559
Speaker 9: want people to get this book, come find your people

1663
01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:08,559
Speaker 9: and help us to tell the rest of their stories.

1664
01:37:09,280 --> 01:37:10,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, family, because this is a lease are of the

1665
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 2: books that they don't want us to read. They definitely

1666
01:37:13,040 --> 01:37:14,400
Speaker 2: don't want us to read this book. So I'm just

1667
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:16,559
Speaker 2: urging you want to be picked a copy of this book,

1668
01:37:16,640 --> 01:37:19,000
Speaker 2: read it, pass it on to your friends. And also

1669
01:37:19,400 --> 01:37:21,439
Speaker 2: if we can track down some of these inmates, because

1670
01:37:21,479 --> 01:37:23,519
Speaker 2: she told the story of a twelve year old that

1671
01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:26,280
Speaker 2: twelve year old pression. Briefly, just give that story again

1672
01:37:26,320 --> 01:37:28,800
Speaker 2: because I want Atturning Malik Shabahas to hear this story.

1673
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:29,240
Speaker 2: Go ahead.

1674
01:37:30,479 --> 01:37:33,960
Speaker 9: So Preston James originally came from Jacksonville, Florida. We know

1675
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:37,799
Speaker 9: that at one point his parents lived in South Carolina

1676
01:37:38,360 --> 01:37:40,880
Speaker 9: and then he resurfaced in Jacksonville. By the time we

1677
01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:43,880
Speaker 9: see him at Jacksonville, we don't see any parents around him.

1678
01:37:44,240 --> 01:37:46,599
Speaker 9: That's when he was supporting himself on the street as

1679
01:37:46,640 --> 01:37:49,600
Speaker 9: a bootlack. He ended up going to prison in the

1680
01:37:49,720 --> 01:37:52,000
Speaker 9: year night he was born in eighteen ninety three. He

1681
01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:54,920
Speaker 9: went to prison in nineteen oh five, so he was

1682
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:57,080
Speaker 9: released three years later, So that would have been what

1683
01:37:57,280 --> 01:37:59,960
Speaker 9: nineteen o eight, and he would have been about fifty

1684
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:03,000
Speaker 9: ten years old. So we don't know if Preston James,

1685
01:38:03,040 --> 01:38:07,240
Speaker 9: if he started his life here in the Atlanta area,

1686
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:10,200
Speaker 9: or if he found his way back to Jacksonville or

1687
01:38:10,240 --> 01:38:13,080
Speaker 9: even South Carolina. So if you're a family out there,

1688
01:38:13,240 --> 01:38:16,479
Speaker 9: people in South Carolina, people in Florida, and of course

1689
01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:19,679
Speaker 9: people in Georgia, if you have a relative, a great

1690
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:23,360
Speaker 9: grandparent by the name of Preston James, please reach out

1691
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:26,759
Speaker 9: to us. You can go to an absence of justice

1692
01:38:27,040 --> 01:38:29,920
Speaker 9: dot com and there's a contact form. Please let us

1693
01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:33,479
Speaker 9: know if this is your relative, and we would love

1694
01:38:33,560 --> 01:38:35,360
Speaker 9: to work with you to expand his story.

1695
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is why, I writ Attorney Malik Shabouc he's

1696
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:40,360
Speaker 2: on decies up next to hear the story because it's

1697
01:38:40,360 --> 01:38:44,080
Speaker 2: a twelve year old that was a center of the penitentiary.

1698
01:38:44,120 --> 01:38:46,320
Speaker 2: Twelve year old. Can you tell the family again what

1699
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:48,639
Speaker 2: will see the alleged crime if you will.

1700
01:38:49,920 --> 01:38:54,559
Speaker 9: They captioned it as mail tampering because he picked up

1701
01:38:54,560 --> 01:38:56,519
Speaker 9: a piece of mail that did not belong to him,

1702
01:38:57,040 --> 01:39:00,240
Speaker 9: and the woman who found him with the mail, it

1703
01:39:00,400 --> 01:39:03,160
Speaker 9: was said that the mail had a piece of had

1704
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:07,000
Speaker 9: a valuable inside. I'm assuming that's money, they never said,

1705
01:39:08,160 --> 01:39:10,360
Speaker 9: and then she, of course the police got him and

1706
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:12,920
Speaker 9: that's what happened. So it was considered mail tampering.

1707
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:15,280
Speaker 2: So we don't know if he had a trial and

1708
01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:17,320
Speaker 2: all of that stuff as well, or they just sent

1709
01:39:17,400 --> 01:39:19,120
Speaker 2: him off to the penitential at twelve years old.

1710
01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:22,600
Speaker 9: So from what we can tell, and that's why I

1711
01:39:22,680 --> 01:39:26,080
Speaker 9: love for lawyers to read this book, it doesn't appear

1712
01:39:26,120 --> 01:39:28,439
Speaker 9: that he had due process. We don't see any in

1713
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:31,200
Speaker 9: We don't see in the record where there is an

1714
01:39:31,240 --> 01:39:35,479
Speaker 9: attorney noted for president. It looks as though he pretty

1715
01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:38,640
Speaker 9: much agreed, I don't want to like to use the

1716
01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:43,000
Speaker 9: word confessed, but agreed after a grand jury was convened.

1717
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:44,880
Speaker 9: And I can't believe that they would even they would

1718
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:47,760
Speaker 9: get people together to even discuss mail tampering, but they did,

1719
01:39:48,320 --> 01:39:51,320
Speaker 9: and so he was pretty much after that he was

1720
01:39:51,360 --> 01:39:53,880
Speaker 9: sent off. So I don't after the indictment from the

1721
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:56,719
Speaker 9: grand jury, the next thing we see is him having

1722
01:39:56,760 --> 01:39:59,280
Speaker 9: his document signed and the judge saying, okay, we're going

1723
01:39:59,360 --> 01:40:01,080
Speaker 9: to give you three years is hard labor in the

1724
01:40:01,120 --> 01:40:04,120
Speaker 9: Atlanta Federal Penitentiary. So, as far as we don't see

1725
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:07,120
Speaker 9: a long drawn our trial, it appears he was indicted

1726
01:40:07,200 --> 01:40:10,840
Speaker 9: and from there he pretty much agreed that you know

1727
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:13,840
Speaker 9: that that this is something that he did.

1728
01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:17,200
Speaker 2: Twelve year twelve years old family he's going to the

1729
01:40:17,280 --> 01:40:20,400
Speaker 2: chaneral penitentiary with hardened criminals back in the day a

1730
01:40:20,439 --> 01:40:24,519
Speaker 2: shoeshine boy. Wow, how can we get copies of the book, Tracy?

1731
01:40:25,840 --> 01:40:30,680
Speaker 9: So you can go to in absence I'm sorry, in

1732
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:34,479
Speaker 9: Absence of Justice dot com and so books can be

1733
01:40:34,640 --> 01:40:37,519
Speaker 9: purchased there. And also our contact form is there, So

1734
01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:40,559
Speaker 9: if you have questions or want to provide us any information,

1735
01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:43,320
Speaker 9: please reach out to us via that contact form and

1736
01:40:43,400 --> 01:40:47,000
Speaker 9: we will be happy to respond and also help anyone

1737
01:40:47,080 --> 01:40:49,200
Speaker 9: that might be doing their own research. If we have

1738
01:40:49,600 --> 01:40:51,640
Speaker 9: information that can help you, we're going to help you.

1739
01:40:51,880 --> 01:40:54,200
Speaker 9: So in Absence of Justice dot com.

1740
01:40:55,080 --> 01:40:57,200
Speaker 2: All right, fammy, thank you, Tracy, thank you for writing

1741
01:40:57,240 --> 01:41:01,479
Speaker 2: this book and one on Frederick Douglas's well. That one

1742
01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:04,479
Speaker 2: is titled The Ghost of Douglas County in Georgia. And

1743
01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:07,080
Speaker 2: her book, the latest book, The Absence of Justice. The

1744
01:41:07,160 --> 01:41:09,400
Speaker 2: on told stories of young black children's sentence to the

1745
01:41:09,439 --> 01:41:12,000
Speaker 2: Atlanta Federal Penitentiary and she shares one of us, a

1746
01:41:12,000 --> 01:41:15,519
Speaker 2: twelve year old young boy. Twelve year old child. Tracy,

1747
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:17,679
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you for doing the research and family,

1748
01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:19,800
Speaker 2: we need to get copies of these books and pass

1749
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:21,759
Speaker 2: it on to our families as well. Thank you, Tracy,

1750
01:41:22,680 --> 01:41:25,240
Speaker 2: thank you, honor to have a great day. All right.

1751
01:41:25,400 --> 01:41:28,840
Speaker 2: That's Tracy Rookard Shaw. That's that's her name. And again

1752
01:41:28,920 --> 01:41:31,240
Speaker 2: the book is called The Absence of Justice. It's the

1753
01:41:31,280 --> 01:41:34,240
Speaker 2: ontold stories of young black children's sentence to the Atlanta

1754
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:37,360
Speaker 2: Federal Penitentiary. And I mentioned that attorney Malik Shabazi has

1755
01:41:37,400 --> 01:41:39,840
Speaker 2: joined this right now, thirteen after the top, they are

1756
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:41,720
Speaker 2: Grand Rising, attorney Malik.

1757
01:41:43,360 --> 01:41:45,920
Speaker 3: Grand Rising, and good morning, brother Karl Nelson.

1758
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:49,519
Speaker 2: Hey, I wanted you to yeah, I wanted you to

1759
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:51,640
Speaker 2: hear that story. Man, as an attorney, how did you

1760
01:41:51,680 --> 01:41:54,360
Speaker 2: feel about that? A twelve year old being sentenced to

1761
01:41:54,439 --> 01:41:57,519
Speaker 2: the penitentiary. You know, he picked up some mail on

1762
01:41:57,560 --> 01:41:59,719
Speaker 2: the street on the fourth of July of all the days,

1763
01:42:00,280 --> 01:42:02,120
Speaker 2: and he got you know, he sent to the penetary.

1764
01:42:02,200 --> 01:42:04,360
Speaker 2: She says, there are a number of children back then,

1765
01:42:04,520 --> 01:42:08,520
Speaker 2: our children, twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old, he sent the penitentiary.

1766
01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:10,000
Speaker 2: Is a lawyer, how does that make you feel?

1767
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:16,439
Speaker 3: Outrageous? Absolutely outrageous and shocking. And I want to read

1768
01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:18,760
Speaker 3: more about it. I mean I really couldn't believe it

1769
01:42:18,840 --> 01:42:23,400
Speaker 3: as it was being articulated, and it's something I definitely

1770
01:42:23,479 --> 01:42:29,640
Speaker 3: want to follow up on and I need that information.

1771
01:42:31,400 --> 01:42:33,560
Speaker 3: Thank you to me to be text to me. I

1772
01:42:33,680 --> 01:42:35,720
Speaker 3: love to read up on that. I can't believe it

1773
01:42:35,800 --> 01:42:39,000
Speaker 3: as I'm listening to it, but things like that do

1774
01:42:39,200 --> 01:42:43,080
Speaker 3: happen in the United States of America, and.

1775
01:42:43,160 --> 01:42:46,240
Speaker 2: That's why we have you. Attorney Elite Shabaz is the

1776
01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:48,280
Speaker 2: founder of the Black Lawyers for Justice and he's working

1777
01:42:48,320 --> 01:42:51,840
Speaker 2: on several cases. So we've got some folks already lined

1778
01:42:51,880 --> 01:42:54,400
Speaker 2: up that wanted chiming as well on these cases. So

1779
01:42:54,720 --> 01:42:57,320
Speaker 2: I'll let you take it away, Attorney Elie Schabaz. What

1780
01:42:57,400 --> 01:42:58,640
Speaker 2: are some of the cases you're working on?

1781
01:42:59,320 --> 01:43:01,759
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you so much on behalf of Black Lawyers

1782
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:05,400
Speaker 3: for Justice. Of three cases that we will discuss here

1783
01:43:05,520 --> 01:43:09,040
Speaker 3: today before we talk at the end about the war,

1784
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:11,800
Speaker 3: the first case we want to talk about this morning

1785
01:43:11,960 --> 01:43:14,960
Speaker 3: is about a young man who's very special to us.

1786
01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:21,160
Speaker 3: That's young Malie Carter, who are February eleventh tragically died

1787
01:43:21,720 --> 01:43:25,920
Speaker 3: at the United States Prison usp Lee, the United States

1788
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:31,600
Speaker 3: Prison Lee in Virginia, and this prison usp Lee is

1789
01:43:31,720 --> 01:43:39,679
Speaker 3: notorious and in America in Virginia for violation of constitutional rights,

1790
01:43:40,560 --> 01:43:43,600
Speaker 3: violation of the Eighth Amendment, and the way that it

1791
01:43:43,720 --> 01:43:44,719
Speaker 3: treats its prisoners.

1792
01:43:44,760 --> 01:43:44,920
Speaker 11: There.

1793
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:49,080
Speaker 3: So on the line this morning, I have the mother

1794
01:43:50,040 --> 01:43:54,040
Speaker 3: of Malie Carter, the great mother and great advocate, Miss

1795
01:43:54,160 --> 01:43:58,759
Speaker 3: are Lisa Carter, and also I believe other family members,

1796
01:43:59,280 --> 01:44:03,840
Speaker 3: but Miss Carter here Malik's mom. Malik's as a Malie Carter,

1797
01:44:03,880 --> 01:44:09,719
Speaker 3: as a Washington DC resident. Unfortunately, back in twenty eighteen,

1798
01:44:09,960 --> 01:44:14,320
Speaker 3: he had a felony conviction and he was sent off

1799
01:44:14,360 --> 01:44:19,840
Speaker 3: to prison, scheduled be released from Lee in April. He

1800
01:44:19,960 --> 01:44:23,519
Speaker 3: was scheduled to be released from Lee in April, but

1801
01:44:23,960 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 3: he suffered a severe injury at this moment, as we know,

1802
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:36,880
Speaker 3: a severe injury at Lee, and then he died prior

1803
01:44:37,000 --> 01:44:41,720
Speaker 3: on Prior to him dying on the eleventh, Mom had

1804
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:47,240
Speaker 3: gotten alert that Malik was being severely mistreated, that Malik

1805
01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:51,560
Speaker 3: was being beaten, that malik Our rights were being violated,

1806
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:56,160
Speaker 3: and she was advocating strongly, strongly to the prison to

1807
01:44:56,880 --> 01:45:00,880
Speaker 3: speak to him, to look out for him. Uh and

1808
01:45:01,080 --> 01:45:05,840
Speaker 3: Malik ultimately died in solitary confinement. Where we are in

1809
01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:08,680
Speaker 3: the case right now, there's a state autopsy that we

1810
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:12,040
Speaker 3: are in the middle of, and also there's been an

1811
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:16,000
Speaker 3: independent autopsy done in this case done by the great

1812
01:45:16,120 --> 01:45:21,480
Speaker 3: doctor Roger Mitchell, former medical director at Howard University Hospital

1813
01:45:21,600 --> 01:45:27,839
Speaker 3: and president of the National Medical Association. Well, thank doctor Mitchell.

1814
01:45:28,360 --> 01:45:32,120
Speaker 3: So we have a couple of autopsies that are pending

1815
01:45:32,240 --> 01:45:36,160
Speaker 3: right now. But it's clear that that Malik Carter was

1816
01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:43,600
Speaker 3: was uh left in solitary confinement, left to left to

1817
01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:49,360
Speaker 3: die with grossly neglected, and left to die without any

1818
01:45:49,479 --> 01:45:53,680
Speaker 3: medical treatment, likely as a form of punishment by a

1819
01:45:54,439 --> 01:45:59,599
Speaker 3: prison here at Lee that is notorious for punishings its

1820
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:03,800
Speaker 3: prison in manners that violate the Eighth Amendment of the

1821
01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:05,160
Speaker 3: United States Constitution.

1822
01:46:06,160 --> 01:46:08,479
Speaker 2: Old I thought right there, counsel. We got to step

1823
01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:10,080
Speaker 2: aside for a few months. We come back. We'll hear

1824
01:46:10,160 --> 01:46:13,400
Speaker 2: from Milik Carter's mom, Alicia, she's real us a family

1825
01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:15,439
Speaker 2: view two can get in on this conversation. You know

1826
01:46:15,560 --> 01:46:17,559
Speaker 2: how to reach us eight hundred four or five zero

1827
01:46:18,320 --> 01:46:20,920
Speaker 2: seventy eight seventy six seventeen. After the top of that,

1828
01:46:21,080 --> 01:46:23,200
Speaker 2: we'll be back. We dor phone calls next hang on

1829
01:46:23,400 --> 01:46:25,680
Speaker 2: rising family, thanks us starting your Thursday with us at

1830
01:46:25,680 --> 01:46:27,559
Speaker 2: twenty one minutes after the top of that. I guess

1831
01:46:27,560 --> 01:46:30,799
Speaker 2: he's attorneym Elite Chabazi's the founder of the Black Lawyers

1832
01:46:30,840 --> 01:46:34,679
Speaker 2: for Justice, and we've give us some information about inmate

1833
01:46:34,840 --> 01:46:38,160
Speaker 2: that died while incarcerated. His name is Melie Carter. So,

1834
01:46:39,120 --> 01:46:41,320
Speaker 2: Attorney Malik, can you can you introduce his mom to

1835
01:46:41,400 --> 01:46:41,840
Speaker 2: the family?

1836
01:46:42,560 --> 01:46:46,360
Speaker 3: Yes, I will. I A justice from Malik Carter is

1837
01:46:46,400 --> 01:46:49,599
Speaker 3: what I want everybody who's listening around the country to remember.

1838
01:46:50,280 --> 01:46:54,400
Speaker 3: Justice from Malik L. Carter. I want you to prepare

1839
01:46:54,479 --> 01:46:58,240
Speaker 3: to hear from his mother, the Great Alisa Carter, who

1840
01:46:58,360 --> 01:47:00,680
Speaker 3: was about to come home. I want to let you

1841
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:05,240
Speaker 3: know that also in this case, that a violation that

1842
01:47:05,320 --> 01:47:08,400
Speaker 3: you hear about soon, because there's a couple of lawsuits

1843
01:47:08,439 --> 01:47:13,640
Speaker 3: that are being filed. In this case, Malik was embalmed illegally.

1844
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:19,000
Speaker 3: Malik had was embalmed without the consent of his next

1845
01:47:19,040 --> 01:47:22,000
Speaker 3: of kin, without the consent of his mother, and violated

1846
01:47:22,040 --> 01:47:24,960
Speaker 3: against the laws of the state of Virginia. This was

1847
01:47:25,040 --> 01:47:30,280
Speaker 3: offensive to the family. And it's also suspicious that before

1848
01:47:30,400 --> 01:47:32,880
Speaker 3: the family could conduct what it has a legal right

1849
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:38,559
Speaker 3: to an independent autopsy, that they embalmed Malik's body, which

1850
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:42,840
Speaker 3: had a compromising effect on the second autopsy. And there's

1851
01:47:42,880 --> 01:47:44,800
Speaker 3: a lot to this and this case is going to

1852
01:47:44,840 --> 01:47:47,760
Speaker 3: be developing, but I want you to hear right now

1853
01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:49,760
Speaker 3: from one of the great mothers that I've met in

1854
01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:53,479
Speaker 3: my entire career of representing many grieving mothers. I want

1855
01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:57,519
Speaker 3: you to hear from Miss Alisa Carter Malik's mother. Please

1856
01:47:57,600 --> 01:47:58,160
Speaker 3: receive her.

1857
01:47:58,800 --> 01:48:04,040
Speaker 2: All right, Mama, Yeah, I know I hate to meet

1858
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:06,519
Speaker 2: you out of these circumstances, but welcome to the program.

1859
01:48:06,760 --> 01:48:09,040
Speaker 2: Tell us, tell us what happens when you first heard

1860
01:48:09,160 --> 01:48:10,519
Speaker 2: that your son had died in prison?

1861
01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:16,599
Speaker 5: Good morning, thank you mom, mister Sagar and my voices

1862
01:48:16,640 --> 01:48:19,599
Speaker 5: I've been talking since like almost too much straight over

1863
01:48:19,680 --> 01:48:24,000
Speaker 5: and bring issue, too much throat in my voice. But

1864
01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:29,839
Speaker 5: first of all, I started getting called January, late January,

1865
01:48:29,960 --> 01:48:35,479
Speaker 5: like January twenty fifth. Family members. That family was in

1866
01:48:35,560 --> 01:48:38,840
Speaker 5: the shoe with my side saying please call O. I

1867
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:43,400
Speaker 5: A called f I this the first day. They beating

1868
01:48:43,439 --> 01:48:45,880
Speaker 5: their man's serve but they kicking them in his boss.

1869
01:48:47,400 --> 01:48:49,519
Speaker 5: They just beating them. He just screamed and they was

1870
01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:54,200
Speaker 5: like poor man. The family call saying red baby Earth

1871
01:48:54,280 --> 01:48:59,439
Speaker 5: for a man so strong to him shrink like that,

1872
01:49:00,080 --> 01:49:03,719
Speaker 5: call my mother, call, call my mother. You know, teller,

1873
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:04,400
Speaker 5: what's going on?

1874
01:49:05,000 --> 01:49:05,360
Speaker 4: That said?

1875
01:49:05,400 --> 01:49:09,320
Speaker 5: It was so cran cruging to everyone like so, and

1876
01:49:09,439 --> 01:49:12,240
Speaker 5: I'm thankful for those people because I'm not even gonna

1877
01:49:12,280 --> 01:49:14,519
Speaker 5: call them inmates, so they getting treated worse than dogs.

1878
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:21,120
Speaker 5: So yeah, so I called up there. They said, oh

1879
01:49:22,760 --> 01:49:25,479
Speaker 5: the first day, they was like, oh, we all on lockdown,

1880
01:49:25,680 --> 01:49:29,519
Speaker 5: nothing's going on, just give me turning me every which

1881
01:49:29,720 --> 01:49:32,320
Speaker 5: which way but loose while they are unlive in my

1882
01:49:32,520 --> 01:49:37,400
Speaker 5: side in a torturing way like crucifim like Jesus put

1883
01:49:37,479 --> 01:49:40,080
Speaker 5: him in. They were like he had four points restraints,

1884
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:42,400
Speaker 5: so that's just like Jesus side up, but the only

1885
01:49:42,479 --> 01:49:44,760
Speaker 5: thing he don't got is a cross on his back.

1886
01:49:45,360 --> 01:49:47,840
Speaker 5: And it's like every day and that was like I

1887
01:49:47,920 --> 01:49:50,360
Speaker 5: guys start calling and stuff. It's like every day I called,

1888
01:49:50,439 --> 01:49:52,840
Speaker 5: they hangs up. They leave me on a hold for

1889
01:49:54,160 --> 01:49:57,840
Speaker 5: long periods time, come back and say are you still

1890
01:49:57,880 --> 01:50:01,280
Speaker 5: in there? After forty five minutes to hang up on me.

1891
01:50:02,120 --> 01:50:04,160
Speaker 5: It was just so much torture. So I just know

1892
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:07,880
Speaker 5: like my baby was going through a lot because how

1893
01:50:07,920 --> 01:50:11,679
Speaker 5: they treated me as a mother, concern about their child

1894
01:50:11,800 --> 01:50:16,880
Speaker 5: well bed and and every day got disrespectful. It's a

1895
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:20,840
Speaker 5: fuller kkks and me down to the water, down to

1896
01:50:21,240 --> 01:50:26,840
Speaker 5: his assistant, down to everybody and here's the thing. They

1897
01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:29,040
Speaker 5: couldn't take him, so they took him. They knew that

1898
01:50:29,240 --> 01:50:31,559
Speaker 5: he was too much to the finish line, so they

1899
01:50:31,600 --> 01:50:34,800
Speaker 5: knew they violated so bad and know him as a person.

1900
01:50:34,840 --> 01:50:37,160
Speaker 5: I just took him in a wheelchair. I this woman

1901
01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:39,720
Speaker 5: in my son all of a sudden, at least at

1902
01:50:39,800 --> 01:50:41,680
Speaker 5: least at least I got a son, because you know,

1903
01:50:41,840 --> 01:50:44,080
Speaker 5: you locked up and I know it's dangerous in there,

1904
01:50:44,200 --> 01:50:47,600
Speaker 5: you know, all around the boards. And they just.

1905
01:50:49,240 --> 01:50:51,920
Speaker 2: Ask you this question. Did you find out why they

1906
01:50:51,960 --> 01:50:54,840
Speaker 2: were abusing him while he was incarcerated? Did they did

1907
01:50:54,880 --> 01:50:55,840
Speaker 2: he do something new?

1908
01:50:56,000 --> 01:50:59,200
Speaker 5: They can't they I got no clear answer for no

1909
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:03,400
Speaker 5: administrator's no, AAE metistrant. Nobody is just this.

1910
01:51:03,840 --> 01:51:05,280
Speaker 12: They thought they know that.

1911
01:51:05,520 --> 01:51:07,000
Speaker 5: I don't know why they did that to him because

1912
01:51:07,000 --> 01:51:10,160
Speaker 5: I'm always calling for him, like here in daycare, so

1913
01:51:10,240 --> 01:51:13,519
Speaker 5: I don't they know he had somebody fighting and loving him.

1914
01:51:13,600 --> 01:51:17,920
Speaker 5: So they just took matters and they hand played wrong son.

1915
01:51:18,040 --> 01:51:22,719
Speaker 5: That's all the must say, wrong person's son. And also

1916
01:51:23,840 --> 01:51:26,280
Speaker 5: that you made me forget about my next thing. But

1917
01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:29,360
Speaker 5: mm hmmm, it's just too much to gather.

1918
01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:33,360
Speaker 2: Well, hold that thought right there, because and counsel a

1919
01:51:33,479 --> 01:51:35,880
Speaker 2: turn of Malik Shabazz Juwanna is with us as well

1920
01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:44,639
Speaker 2: as he involved in the case as well with Malie Carter. Yes, Juana, Juanna, Oh.

1921
01:51:44,600 --> 01:51:45,360
Speaker 4: That's my sister.

1922
01:51:45,800 --> 01:51:46,200
Speaker 5: I forgot.

1923
01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:47,000
Speaker 9: This is what I was about.

1924
01:51:47,040 --> 01:51:47,200
Speaker 3: Three.

1925
01:51:47,720 --> 01:51:52,479
Speaker 5: Allegedly they came to a steal saying he looked like

1926
01:51:52,560 --> 01:51:54,439
Speaker 5: he's high, so you gonna kill a man.

1927
01:51:54,520 --> 01:51:54,960
Speaker 4: So he was like.

1928
01:51:55,040 --> 01:51:57,120
Speaker 5: They was like, oh, you gotta get to buy here.

1929
01:51:57,120 --> 01:51:58,880
Speaker 5: They gonna bring a cheer. So the cheer is the

1930
01:51:59,000 --> 01:52:00,000
Speaker 5: thing they stripped.

1931
01:52:00,040 --> 01:52:01,920
Speaker 4: You beat, you would flip off.

1932
01:52:02,000 --> 01:52:04,840
Speaker 5: The ladies kick him in his balls, put a mask

1933
01:52:04,960 --> 01:52:07,080
Speaker 5: on the face with some mace on it. He was like, no,

1934
01:52:07,200 --> 01:52:08,400
Speaker 5: I ain't even had you know.

1935
01:52:08,439 --> 01:52:08,760
Speaker 4: I'm sorry.

1936
01:52:08,880 --> 01:52:12,120
Speaker 5: So suspectively he was high. He got killed.

1937
01:52:13,840 --> 01:52:16,120
Speaker 2: Twenty seven after the top day. Our family just checking in.

1938
01:52:16,200 --> 01:52:19,559
Speaker 2: The attorney Malik Shabaz from the Black Lawyers for Justices

1939
01:52:19,600 --> 01:52:21,240
Speaker 2: with us and it's got taken on some of the

1940
01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:23,200
Speaker 2: cases he's working on. This one is the case of

1941
01:52:23,880 --> 01:52:28,040
Speaker 2: of inmate Milik Carter who was abused and killed in prison.

1942
01:52:28,560 --> 01:52:31,040
Speaker 2: You mentioned your sister's with us, she's online five, Juanna,

1943
01:52:31,160 --> 01:52:33,519
Speaker 2: what your thoughts on what went down? What do you

1944
01:52:33,600 --> 01:52:34,839
Speaker 2: know about what happened?

1945
01:52:37,160 --> 01:52:40,280
Speaker 13: I'm complaining just on the line in support of my

1946
01:52:40,479 --> 01:52:47,000
Speaker 13: family and my sister, and we want answers. We want transparency,

1947
01:52:47,400 --> 01:52:50,600
Speaker 13: not delayed, not silent, and I just really want to

1948
01:52:50,640 --> 01:52:53,160
Speaker 13: give her the floor so that way she can continue

1949
01:52:53,240 --> 01:52:56,560
Speaker 13: to tell the story and the world will hear it.

1950
01:52:57,640 --> 01:53:01,960
Speaker 2: All right, gotcha, let me go back to attorney Millie Shabazad.

1951
01:53:01,960 --> 01:53:06,360
Speaker 2: You said they embalmed him before. Explain that, because it

1952
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:09,120
Speaker 2: seems like, you know before you have an autopsy, and

1953
01:53:09,160 --> 01:53:11,600
Speaker 2: you guys ordered the second autopsy. What's going on with that?

1954
01:53:12,960 --> 01:53:13,240
Speaker 4: Okay?

1955
01:53:13,280 --> 01:53:15,080
Speaker 3: Well, well, first of all, we want to want to

1956
01:53:15,120 --> 01:53:18,360
Speaker 3: be clear here that that Malik has suffered from a

1957
01:53:18,600 --> 01:53:22,240
Speaker 3: severe break or fracture in his leg. He had a

1958
01:53:22,520 --> 01:53:28,240
Speaker 3: severe injury. That cause of that injury is under investigation.

1959
01:53:28,880 --> 01:53:31,000
Speaker 3: The one thing we do know is that he should

1960
01:53:31,000 --> 01:53:36,799
Speaker 3: have been treated promptly and effectively, and all all results

1961
01:53:36,880 --> 01:53:40,400
Speaker 3: to this date show that he was not properly attended

1962
01:53:40,439 --> 01:53:46,479
Speaker 3: to and that he was in solitary confinement without being

1963
01:53:46,600 --> 01:53:51,760
Speaker 3: intended to for an extended and unacceptable period of time.

1964
01:53:51,920 --> 01:53:55,280
Speaker 3: So the autopsy results that we do have show that

1965
01:53:55,800 --> 01:53:59,519
Speaker 3: that he was not that his leg was not attended to.

1966
01:53:59,720 --> 01:54:02,240
Speaker 3: Is that put in the cast or the pens were

1967
01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:05,240
Speaker 3: put into no medical treatment at all, what we're saying,

1968
01:54:05,680 --> 01:54:10,400
Speaker 3: and that must have been extruciating diabolical pain that he

1969
01:54:10,600 --> 01:54:14,759
Speaker 3: was in at that time. So the state does conduct

1970
01:54:15,120 --> 01:54:20,479
Speaker 3: an autopsy and you're not supposed to embalm the body,

1971
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:23,000
Speaker 3: and State of Virginia is very clear on that you're

1972
01:54:23,080 --> 01:54:27,160
Speaker 3: not supposed to embalm the body and without the permission

1973
01:54:27,240 --> 01:54:31,599
Speaker 3: of the next of ken. Why because as in this case,

1974
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:34,920
Speaker 3: if the family and the next of ken wants a

1975
01:54:35,320 --> 01:54:43,040
Speaker 3: second autopsy, they want another investigation on this, then embalmbing

1976
01:54:43,120 --> 01:54:47,200
Speaker 3: does what. It compromises the tissue. It compromises that that

1977
01:54:47,480 --> 01:54:51,920
Speaker 3: that second medical examination, and that draws suspicion to black

1978
01:54:52,040 --> 01:54:55,920
Speaker 3: lawyers for justice, That draws the question of why why

1979
01:54:56,160 --> 01:55:01,760
Speaker 3: was it the rush to Embalmleik. So it's not only suspicious,

1980
01:55:01,800 --> 01:55:06,200
Speaker 3: but it's offensive. It's offensive to the dignity of Mom

1981
01:55:06,320 --> 01:55:11,000
Speaker 3: and this family. And so legal actions coming fast than that.

1982
01:55:11,160 --> 01:55:13,920
Speaker 3: This case is about wrong for the death. But you

1983
01:55:14,040 --> 01:55:16,920
Speaker 3: have pending autopsy results which are taking a little bit

1984
01:55:17,040 --> 01:55:20,480
Speaker 3: longer than I expected. But there's going to be a

1985
01:55:20,640 --> 01:55:24,240
Speaker 3: lawsuit filed within a few weeks on the embalming issue,

1986
01:55:25,440 --> 01:55:28,720
Speaker 3: and there's also a big event coming up that I

1987
01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:31,360
Speaker 3: want you all to stay tuned and then we'll get

1988
01:55:31,440 --> 01:55:35,240
Speaker 3: back to you about. On April the twenty six there's

1989
01:55:35,320 --> 01:55:40,880
Speaker 3: a big fundraiser and support rally for Justice for Malik Carter.

1990
01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:44,120
Speaker 3: It's going to take place in Washington, d C. Mom

1991
01:55:44,280 --> 01:55:46,760
Speaker 3: is a good mom, but they've been burdened with some

1992
01:55:47,000 --> 01:55:52,160
Speaker 3: thousands almost seventeen eighteen thousand dollars and in burial expenses

1993
01:55:52,280 --> 01:55:57,240
Speaker 3: and with no chable And so I'm calling on the community,

1994
01:55:57,400 --> 01:56:00,880
Speaker 3: all my all of our and my supporter here to

1995
01:56:01,680 --> 01:56:05,720
Speaker 3: pay attention to this case because justice is needed and

1996
01:56:05,880 --> 01:56:08,120
Speaker 3: support for the family is needed, and we're going to

1997
01:56:08,160 --> 01:56:10,440
Speaker 3: get to the bottom of this, and there's going to

1998
01:56:10,480 --> 01:56:14,560
Speaker 3: be some changes at us P lee on behalf of

1999
01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:17,960
Speaker 3: Elite Carter and every other inmate that is suffering and

2000
01:56:18,120 --> 01:56:19,120
Speaker 3: has suffered.

2001
01:56:18,760 --> 01:56:21,800
Speaker 2: There twenty nine away from the top. Let me ask

2002
01:56:21,840 --> 01:56:23,920
Speaker 2: you this, though, how much how difficult is this a

2003
01:56:24,040 --> 01:56:27,920
Speaker 2: case for you, though, counselor, because you got the information

2004
01:56:27,960 --> 01:56:30,480
Speaker 2: you got to get from Discovery, how is it going

2005
01:56:30,560 --> 01:56:33,040
Speaker 2: to be difficult to get those the guards and the

2006
01:56:33,120 --> 01:56:36,080
Speaker 2: prison officials to cooperate. How can you force them to

2007
01:56:36,160 --> 01:56:38,520
Speaker 2: give up information about the elite Carter.

2008
01:56:39,640 --> 01:56:44,240
Speaker 3: Yes, you can. You can legally force them to find

2009
01:56:44,280 --> 01:56:47,920
Speaker 3: out everything that had been happening, that did happen in

2010
01:56:48,040 --> 01:56:51,720
Speaker 3: this incident, and that that's our job. We're getting much

2011
01:56:52,000 --> 01:56:57,120
Speaker 3: some of that information now and other information is as

2012
01:56:57,360 --> 01:57:00,680
Speaker 3: I'm accustomed to being with hell. But that's what attorneys

2013
01:57:00,720 --> 01:57:03,480
Speaker 3: are for, that's what the legal procedures are for. And

2014
01:57:03,720 --> 01:57:06,960
Speaker 3: so I want everybody to track this case because more

2015
01:57:07,000 --> 01:57:10,080
Speaker 3: and more information is going to come out over the

2016
01:57:10,600 --> 01:57:13,320
Speaker 3: next several months that will shed great light on what

2017
01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:16,320
Speaker 3: actually happened to young Malie Carter as he was on

2018
01:57:16,440 --> 01:57:20,640
Speaker 3: the eve of his release. Wow. So if y'all want

2019
01:57:20,680 --> 01:57:23,240
Speaker 3: to support this case, I want the mom to give

2020
01:57:23,280 --> 01:57:26,280
Speaker 3: out to go fund me or go fund me information

2021
01:57:26,440 --> 01:57:28,800
Speaker 3: if she can. If not, I have a number where

2022
01:57:28,840 --> 01:57:30,280
Speaker 3: people can support this case.

2023
01:57:31,920 --> 01:57:34,720
Speaker 2: All right, Mom, before you give out that, when when

2024
01:57:34,760 --> 01:57:37,720
Speaker 2: did you get the phone call from the prison to

2025
01:57:37,760 --> 01:57:38,720
Speaker 2: say he was deceased?

2026
01:57:38,800 --> 01:57:39,480
Speaker 8: What was that like?

2027
01:57:41,480 --> 01:57:41,720
Speaker 6: It was?

2028
01:57:41,960 --> 01:57:42,880
Speaker 7: It was like a hall.

2029
01:57:43,000 --> 01:57:44,880
Speaker 9: It was been always a horror movie.

2030
01:57:45,480 --> 01:57:49,880
Speaker 5: But just to know, honestly, I felt my somachs home,

2031
01:57:50,360 --> 01:57:52,600
Speaker 5: but I didn't think he was going to die. You know,

2032
01:57:52,800 --> 01:57:55,640
Speaker 5: even though there's severe things that was brought to my

2033
01:57:55,760 --> 01:58:00,240
Speaker 5: attention to alert other great people, family members. You know,

2034
01:58:04,280 --> 01:58:07,480
Speaker 5: it's just I can't even remember the question. It's been

2035
01:58:07,600 --> 01:58:11,920
Speaker 5: so much like I'm right, my mind is just racing

2036
01:58:12,080 --> 01:58:15,880
Speaker 5: like every second night being awareness out. It was the

2037
01:58:16,000 --> 01:58:20,440
Speaker 5: worst thing I ever dealt with in my entire life,

2038
01:58:21,240 --> 01:58:24,760
Speaker 5: by they killing my son and giving me a hard time.

2039
01:58:26,480 --> 01:58:28,880
Speaker 5: It just was too much together. Then a lady calls me.

2040
01:58:30,160 --> 01:58:33,760
Speaker 5: I sent the FBI and the OIAS to any big

2041
01:58:35,240 --> 01:58:38,880
Speaker 5: establishments in there. I've been emailing them. I guess I

2042
01:58:38,960 --> 01:58:41,080
Speaker 5: got the email, so I started calling them because they

2043
01:58:41,160 --> 01:58:41,360
Speaker 5: was like.

2044
01:58:42,920 --> 01:58:43,680
Speaker 13: They starve and.

2045
01:58:43,680 --> 01:58:47,840
Speaker 5: I'm just hearing so much horror stuff that is so inhumane.

2046
01:58:49,000 --> 01:58:51,760
Speaker 5: I scored it for FBI and OA. They went up

2047
01:58:51,800 --> 01:58:55,800
Speaker 5: in there twenty four hours my son dead, so I

2048
01:58:55,960 --> 01:58:58,160
Speaker 5: was confused, like did he die that day? Did he

2049
01:58:58,240 --> 01:59:01,760
Speaker 5: die before then? And know the want to tell it truth,

2050
01:59:01,840 --> 01:59:04,320
Speaker 5: you know, God don't bless no mess. The lady calls

2051
01:59:04,400 --> 01:59:06,800
Speaker 5: me and say just say, are you sitting down?

2052
01:59:06,840 --> 01:59:07,040
Speaker 6: Are you?

2053
01:59:07,080 --> 01:59:09,560
Speaker 5: Whats the one? She's like, she was like, Hi, this

2054
01:59:09,760 --> 01:59:13,480
Speaker 5: is miss Jackson from miss sounding like a clue club client,

2055
01:59:13,800 --> 01:59:18,120
Speaker 5: this is missus Jackson from the Oh Leave USP. I'm

2056
01:59:18,240 --> 01:59:21,440
Speaker 5: calling and behad for your sum alite Carter. I was like,

2057
01:59:21,520 --> 01:59:25,040
Speaker 5: what's going on, ma'am? He said, we found them unconscious

2058
01:59:25,400 --> 01:59:28,520
Speaker 5: and we did everything to survive, and he didn't make it.

2059
01:59:29,000 --> 01:59:33,280
Speaker 5: I said, why the fuck y'all kill my motherfuckers? They said, oh,

2060
01:59:33,800 --> 01:59:34,839
Speaker 5: nobody killing.

2061
01:59:35,040 --> 01:59:38,360
Speaker 2: You apologize for I understand, but listen, we got apologies

2062
01:59:38,360 --> 01:59:40,720
Speaker 2: that we can't use those those words on the radio. Okay,

2063
01:59:43,440 --> 01:59:46,880
Speaker 2: all right, yeah, thank you, I understand. Okay, you're still grieving,

2064
01:59:47,320 --> 01:59:50,920
Speaker 2: but Kevin, make sure you clean that up first. Thank you, Kevin.

2065
01:59:51,480 --> 01:59:54,200
Speaker 2: Uh counselor. Yeah, picking up from that, he was supposed

2066
01:59:54,200 --> 01:59:57,280
Speaker 2: to be released? H At what time? How close was

2067
01:59:57,360 --> 02:00:04,000
Speaker 2: he to his release? State? Mary, You're supposed to re

2068
02:00:04,080 --> 02:00:05,760
Speaker 2: least March twenty six? And when did this happen?

2069
02:00:06,440 --> 02:00:10,040
Speaker 3: In February eleven? There's February eleven, so you're talking about

2070
02:00:10,240 --> 02:00:12,600
Speaker 3: roughly forty five days?

2071
02:00:14,760 --> 02:00:14,960
Speaker 6: Wow?

2072
02:00:15,440 --> 02:00:17,680
Speaker 8: Absolutely, a counselor.

2073
02:00:18,720 --> 02:00:21,760
Speaker 2: Have we found out why he was being abused like this?

2074
02:00:22,440 --> 02:00:25,080
Speaker 2: Did he commit some infraction while he was incarcerated?

2075
02:00:26,640 --> 02:00:32,760
Speaker 3: Shock? No, we don't have any. No, No, we don't

2076
02:00:32,800 --> 02:00:36,040
Speaker 3: have any. First of all, there's there's there's no justification

2077
02:00:36,200 --> 02:00:41,240
Speaker 3: for abuse regardless. However, no, there's nothing there's nothing that

2078
02:00:41,440 --> 02:00:49,440
Speaker 3: Malik Harder deity here that would warrant what happened. Absolutely not.

2079
02:00:50,400 --> 02:00:53,360
Speaker 3: They do use his mom And first of all, I

2080
02:00:53,400 --> 02:00:56,800
Speaker 3: want everybody to understand, there's nothing like the pain of

2081
02:00:56,960 --> 02:01:00,640
Speaker 3: a mother having to lose and bury their child. And

2082
02:01:00,680 --> 02:01:03,320
Speaker 3: there's some others in this audience who been there. There's

2083
02:01:03,360 --> 02:01:07,440
Speaker 3: nothing like that pain. So understand Miss Alsa No no,

2084
02:01:07,720 --> 02:01:12,720
Speaker 3: hear what they use. And according to several many witnesses

2085
02:01:12,760 --> 02:01:15,880
Speaker 3: that are coming forward, as they use coercive means, as

2086
02:01:15,960 --> 02:01:19,240
Speaker 3: many prisons do around America, until they get caught, they

2087
02:01:19,360 --> 02:01:24,000
Speaker 3: use their own means. They use ad hoc justice, such

2088
02:01:24,040 --> 02:01:26,760
Speaker 3: as mom described. If you're in a regular cell and

2089
02:01:26,840 --> 02:01:29,600
Speaker 3: they accuse you of doing something, or they bring the

2090
02:01:29,760 --> 02:01:31,680
Speaker 3: chair in, and when they bring the chair and the

2091
02:01:32,200 --> 02:01:34,440
Speaker 3: team of men in and they get to they get

2092
02:01:34,480 --> 02:01:39,200
Speaker 3: to beating on you and abusing you, and so there's

2093
02:01:39,240 --> 02:01:44,920
Speaker 3: something vindictive going on here. There's something malicious going on here.

2094
02:01:44,960 --> 02:01:48,760
Speaker 3: There's some form of punishment that Malik was subject to

2095
02:01:49,400 --> 02:01:53,839
Speaker 3: that allowed him to suffer the injuries that he suffered

2096
02:01:54,440 --> 02:01:56,680
Speaker 3: and to just be left there like that. I mean,

2097
02:01:56,720 --> 02:02:00,840
Speaker 3: that must have been horrific for Malik to have such

2098
02:02:00,880 --> 02:02:04,640
Speaker 3: a severe break leg injury, you know. And and it's

2099
02:02:05,040 --> 02:02:07,520
Speaker 3: the evidence so forth shows that it was just uh

2100
02:02:08,160 --> 02:02:15,360
Speaker 3: uh likely and heavily infected a septic uhh. So so

2101
02:02:15,520 --> 02:02:17,640
Speaker 3: what I'm saying is that he was he was punished

2102
02:02:17,880 --> 02:02:24,360
Speaker 3: without cause. He was uh his rights were violated, and

2103
02:02:24,720 --> 02:02:27,520
Speaker 3: and and and he went through an enormous amount of

2104
02:02:27,600 --> 02:02:32,080
Speaker 3: pain and suffering. Uh And the prison allowed that to happen.

2105
02:02:32,240 --> 02:02:34,680
Speaker 3: Seems to be as a form of punishment, which is

2106
02:02:34,720 --> 02:02:38,560
Speaker 3: a pattern at usp LEA. It's a pattern and and

2107
02:02:39,200 --> 02:02:41,440
Speaker 3: and this is like in the case of the Ranking

2108
02:02:41,520 --> 02:02:44,760
Speaker 3: County Goon Squad and other cases I've been on. This

2109
02:02:44,960 --> 02:02:47,680
Speaker 3: is one of those cases whereas the evidence is going

2110
02:02:47,760 --> 02:02:52,080
Speaker 3: to come in, many officials here at that prison and

2111
02:02:52,240 --> 02:02:55,440
Speaker 3: around the state are going to be found complicit in

2112
02:02:55,560 --> 02:02:57,480
Speaker 3: what has been happening at usp LEE.

2113
02:02:58,200 --> 02:03:00,520
Speaker 2: All right, hold up, all right, there a few moments

2114
02:03:00,520 --> 02:03:02,720
Speaker 2: to come back. I'll let you give us the go

2115
02:03:02,920 --> 02:03:06,840
Speaker 2: fund me information so we can help Malik Carter and

2116
02:03:07,000 --> 02:03:09,400
Speaker 2: his family. What are your thoughts? Family eight hundred and

2117
02:03:09,400 --> 02:03:11,480
Speaker 2: four or five zero seventy eight to seventy six to

2118
02:03:11,480 --> 02:03:13,800
Speaker 2: speak to the family and attorney Elik Shabaz, and we'll

2119
02:03:13,840 --> 02:03:16,400
Speaker 2: take your phone calls next and grand Rising family. Thanks

2120
02:03:16,440 --> 02:03:18,120
Speaker 2: for staying with us on this Thursday morning with our

2121
02:03:18,120 --> 02:03:20,920
Speaker 2: guess Attorney Malik Shabbaz from is the founder of the

2122
02:03:20,960 --> 02:03:23,240
Speaker 2: Black Laws for Justices, sharing some of the cases he's

2123
02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:25,200
Speaker 2: working on, and I'm Mantail. We're going to also talk

2124
02:03:25,200 --> 02:03:27,360
Speaker 2: about the situation in Iran before we go back to

2125
02:03:27,400 --> 02:03:30,120
Speaker 2: in the all Inemistry. Remind you Tomorrow's Friday. As usual,

2126
02:03:30,200 --> 02:03:31,840
Speaker 2: we give you a chance to free your mind. All

2127
02:03:31,880 --> 02:03:34,160
Speaker 2: that means is, you know, just think for yourself, you know,

2128
02:03:34,400 --> 02:03:37,600
Speaker 2: leave your talking points and political talking points behind. Open

2129
02:03:37,640 --> 02:03:40,640
Speaker 2: phone Friday program begins promptly at six am Eastern time

2130
02:03:40,720 --> 02:03:43,720
Speaker 2: right here in baltimorrow on ten ten WLB and also

2131
02:03:43,800 --> 02:03:46,960
Speaker 2: on the DMV on fourteen fifty WOL. All right, counselor

2132
02:03:47,040 --> 02:03:49,240
Speaker 2: let's before we move on to the next case, can

2133
02:03:49,320 --> 02:03:51,560
Speaker 2: you give us the go fund the information for Elie Carter.

2134
02:03:54,520 --> 02:04:03,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want everybody to go to justice Justice for Malik.

2135
02:04:04,200 --> 02:04:08,120
Speaker 3: The name is Malik L. Carter on go fund me.

2136
02:04:08,760 --> 02:04:12,800
Speaker 3: But if you type in justice for Malik you'll see

2137
02:04:12,880 --> 02:04:16,800
Speaker 3: the page. It says Justice for Malik. Uncovering the Truth

2138
02:04:17,680 --> 02:04:23,800
Speaker 3: ALSOS on my Facebook Pagelik s Z Shabbaiz on Facebook

2139
02:04:24,400 --> 02:04:28,520
Speaker 3: Malik f z Shabbas. You'll find it on Facebook. You'll

2140
02:04:28,560 --> 02:04:32,800
Speaker 3: find Justice for Malik Uncovering the Truth on go fund Me.

2141
02:04:33,280 --> 02:04:35,880
Speaker 3: I want all my supporters to help this family out

2142
02:04:35,920 --> 02:04:39,760
Speaker 3: that's fighting for justice and fighting with independent all top

2143
02:04:39,880 --> 02:04:43,240
Speaker 3: season and some of you all know how difficult it

2144
02:04:43,440 --> 02:04:46,480
Speaker 3: is fighting for your loved ones behind bars. I want

2145
02:04:46,520 --> 02:04:49,200
Speaker 3: to also give a shout out to Attorney Howard Woodson.

2146
02:04:49,720 --> 02:04:53,920
Speaker 3: Howard Woodson, my longtime colleague and the civil rights legal

2147
02:04:54,040 --> 02:04:58,560
Speaker 3: struggle and former NAACP leader in Virginia who is on

2148
02:04:58,720 --> 02:05:01,440
Speaker 3: top of this case and so you all will hear

2149
02:05:01,520 --> 02:05:04,200
Speaker 3: more about this and justice for Malie Carter's what I

2150
02:05:04,400 --> 02:05:05,240
Speaker 3: want to say today.

2151
02:05:06,280 --> 02:05:08,120
Speaker 2: All right, sevent you away from the top. I know

2152
02:05:08,200 --> 02:05:11,280
Speaker 2: the case you're working on with Marcus Taylor. Can you

2153
02:05:11,400 --> 02:05:13,520
Speaker 2: tell us about that case counseling.

2154
02:05:13,840 --> 02:05:17,120
Speaker 3: Yes, Marcus Taylor, who should be on the line now,

2155
02:05:17,320 --> 02:05:21,360
Speaker 3: Marcus Taylor. This is in Mississippi. This is in line

2156
02:05:21,440 --> 02:05:24,400
Speaker 3: with some of the strong civil rights work that Black

2157
02:05:24,480 --> 02:05:28,600
Speaker 3: Lawyers for Justice is going in the state of Mississippi. Now,

2158
02:05:28,720 --> 02:05:35,000
Speaker 3: Marcus Taylor is a case of illegal sentencing, excessive sentencing.

2159
02:05:35,760 --> 02:05:42,240
Speaker 3: In the year twenty fifteen, young Marcus Taylor took a

2160
02:05:42,320 --> 02:05:47,240
Speaker 3: plea on a scheduled three drug conviction in Mississippi. Marcus

2161
02:05:47,400 --> 02:05:53,680
Speaker 3: sentence was lawfully the maximum for his sentence lawfully was

2162
02:05:53,880 --> 02:05:57,160
Speaker 3: five years. It was five years and should have been

2163
02:05:57,280 --> 02:06:02,440
Speaker 3: less on a plea, but someone was five years. Would

2164
02:06:02,480 --> 02:06:07,960
Speaker 3: you believe that the defense attorney, the prosecutor and the

2165
02:06:08,160 --> 02:06:13,000
Speaker 3: judge all got together and agreed for a sentence for

2166
02:06:13,480 --> 02:06:19,160
Speaker 3: Marcus for fifteen years and sentenced him and agreed for

2167
02:06:19,320 --> 02:06:23,360
Speaker 3: him to be sentenced for fifteen years in prison. And

2168
02:06:23,600 --> 02:06:28,360
Speaker 3: Marcus Taylor has sat in prison, sat behind bars for

2169
02:06:28,960 --> 02:06:34,160
Speaker 3: ten years, five years beyond the max, sat behind bars

2170
02:06:34,280 --> 02:06:38,640
Speaker 3: for ten years until he was just recently freed by

2171
02:06:38,760 --> 02:06:43,640
Speaker 3: the Court of Appeals on one hand, and Governor Tate

2172
02:06:43,800 --> 02:06:47,960
Speaker 3: Reeves issued a pardon. There's a lot in between that,

2173
02:06:48,080 --> 02:06:50,880
Speaker 3: but that's the essence of it. A young man, a

2174
02:06:52,960 --> 02:06:59,480
Speaker 3: sippy who lost his way, should have been taken a

2175
02:06:59,720 --> 02:07:05,040
Speaker 3: plea for probably two and a half years or three years. Instead,

2176
02:07:07,200 --> 02:07:11,960
Speaker 3: was being misled by everybody, the court, the prosecutors, and

2177
02:07:12,040 --> 02:07:15,600
Speaker 3: his lawyers and ended up spending ten years in jail

2178
02:07:17,040 --> 02:07:21,480
Speaker 3: until the Court of Appeals pointed out that wasn't the lawyers,

2179
02:07:22,520 --> 02:07:25,400
Speaker 3: what was the Court of Appeals pointed out that their

2180
02:07:25,480 --> 02:07:30,440
Speaker 3: original sentence was only supposed to last five years. And

2181
02:07:30,560 --> 02:07:33,360
Speaker 3: then as Lynn Fetch and others got prepared to fight

2182
02:07:33,480 --> 02:07:38,680
Speaker 3: the Court of Appeals and keeping behind bars, and you know,

2183
02:07:38,840 --> 02:07:41,080
Speaker 3: time runs out, you get past years and you have

2184
02:07:41,200 --> 02:07:43,880
Speaker 3: to file an appeal, you have to file a notice

2185
02:07:43,920 --> 02:07:46,480
Speaker 3: to get out. All of that had passed. And so

2186
02:07:46,600 --> 02:07:48,760
Speaker 3: in one of the few times that I've agreed with

2187
02:07:48,920 --> 02:07:51,760
Speaker 3: Governor rees and this is one of them, he stepped

2188
02:07:51,800 --> 02:07:56,880
Speaker 3: in and intervened, then freed Marcus and his brother Maurice,

2189
02:07:57,760 --> 02:08:01,040
Speaker 3: who had a twenty year sentence. And so that's where

2190
02:08:01,040 --> 02:08:03,520
Speaker 3: we are today. That Marcus is he should he should

2191
02:08:03,520 --> 02:08:04,600
Speaker 3: be on the line here.

2192
02:08:05,640 --> 02:08:08,800
Speaker 2: No, Marcus, Marcus isn't with us a councilor so, so,

2193
02:08:09,040 --> 02:08:11,280
Speaker 2: uh tell me at what point though, after you get

2194
02:08:11,320 --> 02:08:16,560
Speaker 2: the sentence, should yeah, neither on the line. But I'm

2195
02:08:16,600 --> 02:08:18,200
Speaker 2: going to ask you this about the plea deals because

2196
02:08:18,240 --> 02:08:20,160
Speaker 2: we keep seeing you know, you you watch Law and

2197
02:08:20,280 --> 02:08:21,960
Speaker 2: Order and all this kind of stuff those shows on

2198
02:08:22,080 --> 02:08:25,960
Speaker 2: TV about the plea deals. How advantageous is for you

2199
02:08:26,040 --> 02:08:28,200
Speaker 2: to take a plead deal? When is it When is

2200
02:08:28,240 --> 02:08:30,440
Speaker 2: it advantageous for you as a defendant to take a

2201
02:08:30,480 --> 02:08:30,920
Speaker 2: plea deal.

2202
02:08:33,520 --> 02:08:37,400
Speaker 3: It's advantage it's advantageous. They say Marcus is on the line,

2203
02:08:37,400 --> 02:08:39,760
Speaker 3: So we want to check get into that in the

2204
02:08:39,880 --> 02:08:44,600
Speaker 3: second because I've got his his his sister here. It's

2205
02:08:45,320 --> 02:08:49,400
Speaker 3: if if you're facing if if you know us a defendant,

2206
02:08:49,480 --> 02:08:55,120
Speaker 3: that that evidence is likely to convict you, and that

2207
02:08:55,760 --> 02:08:58,000
Speaker 3: if you go to trial that you will receive a

2208
02:08:58,120 --> 02:09:01,560
Speaker 3: sentence that is that is much longer than than what

2209
02:09:01,720 --> 02:09:05,600
Speaker 3: you could arrange through a pre plea deal, then yes,

2210
02:09:05,840 --> 02:09:09,760
Speaker 3: you should you should consider taking a plea uh uh.

2211
02:09:10,160 --> 02:09:14,200
Speaker 3: And I think Marcus did the right thing here. I

2212
02:09:14,400 --> 02:09:18,840
Speaker 3: just think lack of knowledge, lack of knowledge which he

2213
02:09:18,920 --> 02:09:22,200
Speaker 3: can't be blamed for. He's the he's the client. But

2214
02:09:22,400 --> 02:09:27,400
Speaker 3: the lack of knowledge and a number of serious errors

2215
02:09:27,480 --> 02:09:32,280
Speaker 3: occurred that allowed him to enter a plea for a

2216
02:09:33,880 --> 02:09:36,800
Speaker 3: crime that brought him the maximum five years. I mean

2217
02:09:36,840 --> 02:09:39,360
Speaker 3: the police should have been two and a half three years.

2218
02:09:40,600 --> 02:09:44,760
Speaker 3: So uh, in this case, I think he he, he, he,

2219
02:09:45,040 --> 02:09:48,960
Speaker 3: His intent was was right, he operated in good faith. Uh,

2220
02:09:49,800 --> 02:09:52,440
Speaker 3: you know, every I mean, this has to be a

2221
02:09:52,560 --> 02:09:57,200
Speaker 3: nightmare for it's a nightmare for him. But and I

2222
02:09:57,320 --> 02:10:00,880
Speaker 3: hate to talk about other attorneys, but he's obviously let

2223
02:10:01,000 --> 02:10:05,560
Speaker 3: down by by his counsel. Uh, he's obviously let back.

2224
02:10:05,600 --> 02:10:09,440
Speaker 3: I mean I couldn't imagine. I couldn't imagine being the

2225
02:10:09,520 --> 02:10:13,000
Speaker 3: attorney where where my where I signed my client over

2226
02:10:13,120 --> 02:10:16,680
Speaker 3: and participated and signing him to a plead deal which

2227
02:10:17,160 --> 02:10:22,040
Speaker 3: which sentenced him to to uh ten years beyond the

2228
02:10:22,280 --> 02:10:24,600
Speaker 3: maximum of what he was to receive. I just can't

2229
02:10:24,840 --> 02:10:26,520
Speaker 3: that would I would never go to sleep as a

2230
02:10:26,600 --> 02:10:32,040
Speaker 3: lawyer at night. So, uh, Marcus is the victimy right right, and.

2231
02:10:32,080 --> 02:10:35,080
Speaker 2: He's joined us right now, attorneyment Leak, he's online. Three

2232
02:10:35,200 --> 02:10:37,760
Speaker 2: grand riseing Marcus, Marcus Taylor, Welcome to the program.

2233
02:10:39,720 --> 02:10:41,640
Speaker 3: How y'all doing well.

2234
02:10:41,720 --> 02:10:43,800
Speaker 2: We want to hear your story. What happened? We heard

2235
02:10:43,800 --> 02:10:45,839
Speaker 2: it from your attorney would tell us what happened?

2236
02:10:47,200 --> 02:10:53,080
Speaker 14: Well, it was you know, it was all it was

2237
02:10:53,160 --> 02:10:55,840
Speaker 14: all the you know, it's all so long ago. I

2238
02:10:55,920 --> 02:10:59,000
Speaker 14: can but I can only but I still can remember

2239
02:11:00,280 --> 02:11:01,360
Speaker 14: things very vividly.

2240
02:11:02,000 --> 02:11:05,120
Speaker 11: When when when when.

2241
02:11:05,240 --> 02:11:13,080
Speaker 14: When my lawyer and the the atturner general was saying.

2242
02:11:12,920 --> 02:11:19,440
Speaker 12: That I couldn't you know that I was I had

2243
02:11:19,520 --> 02:11:22,800
Speaker 12: to take the fifteen years which was was was.

2244
02:11:25,200 --> 02:11:28,800
Speaker 14: The Masima penity for the crime up in acting in Mississippi.

2245
02:11:31,840 --> 02:11:34,400
Speaker 3: I was. I was devastated, you.

2246
02:11:34,400 --> 02:11:34,960
Speaker 12: Know what I'm saying.

2247
02:11:35,160 --> 02:11:39,840
Speaker 14: But they were saying like either either either I take

2248
02:11:39,920 --> 02:11:44,480
Speaker 14: that time or face more time. You understand what I'm saying.

2249
02:11:45,240 --> 02:11:50,040
Speaker 2: So so you thought you you made the best decision

2250
02:11:50,120 --> 02:11:51,960
Speaker 2: with with what you knew at that particular time.

2251
02:11:53,160 --> 02:11:56,080
Speaker 12: Let me ask you this question, me being being illiterate

2252
02:11:56,200 --> 02:11:56,720
Speaker 12: to the law.

2253
02:11:58,080 --> 02:12:03,720
Speaker 14: Basically you on in you know, especially like the way

2254
02:12:03,760 --> 02:12:08,120
Speaker 14: they've ridden up the charges on me. I didn't know

2255
02:12:08,800 --> 02:12:13,000
Speaker 14: because that that wasn't anchorate, So I didn't know. Basically

2256
02:12:13,040 --> 02:12:15,840
Speaker 14: I was just bamboos or in into to take and

2257
02:12:17,080 --> 02:12:19,240
Speaker 14: you know a plead.

2258
02:12:20,040 --> 02:12:22,760
Speaker 2: You know right, Well, let me actually I'm Marcus at

2259
02:12:23,120 --> 02:12:25,240
Speaker 2: nine minutes way from the top. That was the attorney

2260
02:12:25,280 --> 02:12:30,480
Speaker 2: black or White, your original attorney black and and and

2261
02:12:30,800 --> 02:12:34,440
Speaker 2: he sort of and I mean go to attorneym Elite Shabaz,

2262
02:12:34,680 --> 02:12:39,000
Speaker 2: so attorney Elite Shabout these these guys are I guess

2263
02:12:39,040 --> 02:12:42,080
Speaker 2: these public defenders if they will, whether it's just another number,

2264
02:12:42,160 --> 02:12:44,840
Speaker 2: just wanted to you know, east their case load is,

2265
02:12:45,320 --> 02:12:48,040
Speaker 2: how do you see that? How can another brother do

2266
02:12:48,200 --> 02:12:51,320
Speaker 2: another brother like that in the legal field, because I

2267
02:12:51,400 --> 02:12:52,080
Speaker 2: know you wouldn't do it.

2268
02:12:53,800 --> 02:12:57,360
Speaker 3: Uh, let's see how we look at that. I don't.

2269
02:12:58,720 --> 02:13:01,360
Speaker 3: I don't know how much race plays into it. I

2270
02:13:01,480 --> 02:13:05,200
Speaker 3: do know as a as black attorneys, that especially as

2271
02:13:05,240 --> 02:13:09,160
Speaker 3: criminal defense attorneys or any attorney whether but regardless to race,

2272
02:13:09,280 --> 02:13:12,400
Speaker 3: we have to when it comes to a person's liberty,

2273
02:13:13,040 --> 02:13:16,000
Speaker 3: you have to be extra cautious. It's just one thing

2274
02:13:16,120 --> 02:13:20,600
Speaker 3: to fight for a person's civil rights or compensation, it's

2275
02:13:20,640 --> 02:13:23,960
Speaker 3: a It's another matter when somebody's liberty is at stake,

2276
02:13:24,040 --> 02:13:26,840
Speaker 3: So you have to be extra cautious. So yeah, I

2277
02:13:26,920 --> 02:13:30,720
Speaker 3: am disappointed in his original trial counsel, and they should

2278
02:13:30,760 --> 02:13:33,560
Speaker 3: serve every client, regardless to race, with the with the

2279
02:13:34,320 --> 02:13:39,200
Speaker 3: highest of diligence. But also doing this appeals process just

2280
02:13:39,880 --> 02:13:43,000
Speaker 3: lawyers of different races. I said this in the beginning.

2281
02:13:43,680 --> 02:13:50,120
Speaker 3: It wasn't the It wasn't Marcus post conviction lawyers who

2282
02:13:50,440 --> 02:13:54,040
Speaker 3: raised the issue that his sentence was illegal. There wasn't

2283
02:13:54,120 --> 02:13:57,040
Speaker 3: them raising the issue. They raised other issues that he

2284
02:13:57,120 --> 02:13:59,920
Speaker 3: should be let out for for reasons of mercy or

2285
02:14:00,120 --> 02:14:03,920
Speaker 3: other reasons. They advocated over the years to get him

2286
02:14:03,960 --> 02:14:08,240
Speaker 3: out for different reasons. The Court of Appeals on its own,

2287
02:14:09,160 --> 02:14:12,080
Speaker 3: the Court of Appeals on its own is the one

2288
02:14:12,120 --> 02:14:17,280
Speaker 3: that ordered Marcus's post conviction attorneys to recognize the fact

2289
02:14:17,320 --> 02:14:23,640
Speaker 3: that his original plea deal on the Schedule three drug

2290
02:14:23,760 --> 02:14:27,760
Speaker 3: conviction was illegal. It should have been no longer than

2291
02:14:27,880 --> 02:14:31,560
Speaker 3: five years than the Court of Appeals ordered different attorneys,

2292
02:14:32,120 --> 02:14:36,160
Speaker 3: his different attorneys, his post conviction attorneys to brief the

2293
02:14:36,320 --> 02:14:40,320
Speaker 3: court on the fact that the whole sentence was illegal. Okay,

2294
02:14:40,520 --> 02:14:45,760
Speaker 3: so you know, yeah, as black attorneys, we should fight.

2295
02:14:45,920 --> 02:14:48,520
Speaker 3: But just regardless to race, lawyers have to be about

2296
02:14:48,600 --> 02:14:52,160
Speaker 3: their work. And this was some of the This was bad.

2297
02:14:52,280 --> 02:14:56,040
Speaker 3: Bad on the court, bad on the prosecutors.

2298
02:14:55,320 --> 02:14:56,080
Speaker 6: Bad on the.

2299
02:14:58,240 --> 02:15:02,760
Speaker 3: On the defense lawyers, and even conviction. Fortunately, and I

2300
02:15:03,840 --> 02:15:07,440
Speaker 3: sounds shocking to say it, but it was very relevant

2301
02:15:07,480 --> 02:15:12,480
Speaker 3: here that the governor Reeves and Mississippi stepped in and

2302
02:15:12,760 --> 02:15:17,840
Speaker 3: pardoned Marcus, and a few days later pardoned Maurice and

2303
02:15:18,000 --> 02:15:19,920
Speaker 3: just let him go because the case would have kept

2304
02:15:19,920 --> 02:15:24,000
Speaker 3: getting appeeled. So now that they're out, it's the question

2305
02:15:24,320 --> 02:15:28,680
Speaker 3: of of how did you compensate this man and them,

2306
02:15:28,960 --> 02:15:31,720
Speaker 3: both of them. But really, in this case, my client Marcus,

2307
02:15:32,160 --> 02:15:35,360
Speaker 3: how is he to be compensated for losing some of

2308
02:15:35,440 --> 02:15:37,320
Speaker 3: the most valuable years.

2309
02:15:37,080 --> 02:15:40,760
Speaker 2: Of his life, Timmy, he will never get back listen,

2310
02:15:40,800 --> 02:15:41,920
Speaker 2: we'll come up on a break. But I got a

2311
02:15:41,920 --> 02:15:44,320
Speaker 2: tweet question for your tweeter once to know a counselor

2312
02:15:44,600 --> 02:15:47,040
Speaker 2: was the prison privately owned that Marcus was sent to?

2313
02:15:50,320 --> 02:15:55,480
Speaker 3: Well, this is a state penitentiary, okay, And.

2314
02:15:57,240 --> 02:16:02,880
Speaker 2: So you know, when is there any yesand reprimand coming

2315
02:16:03,000 --> 02:16:06,200
Speaker 2: for his original attorney and the judge involved in this case?

2316
02:16:06,480 --> 02:16:07,200
Speaker 2: How does that look?

2317
02:16:11,120 --> 02:16:15,480
Speaker 3: That's a touchy subject at this moment between Marcus and

2318
02:16:15,600 --> 02:16:19,000
Speaker 3: his previous counsel and I don't want to comment on

2319
02:16:19,120 --> 02:16:21,680
Speaker 3: that right now. I've commented enough on I would say

2320
02:16:21,760 --> 02:16:24,640
Speaker 3: I don't know what actions are coming to them. I

2321
02:16:24,760 --> 02:16:28,120
Speaker 3: do know about justice for Marcus Taylor and the campaign

2322
02:16:28,320 --> 02:16:31,040
Speaker 3: for Justice for Marcus. First of all, I want to

2323
02:16:31,080 --> 02:16:34,520
Speaker 3: tell everybody that Marcus is on a new path in life.

2324
02:16:35,040 --> 02:16:38,080
Speaker 3: That whatever happened in twenty fifteen, he served his time,

2325
02:16:38,280 --> 02:16:42,800
Speaker 3: served five years, but really probably seven years more than

2326
02:16:42,879 --> 02:16:45,800
Speaker 3: he should have served, and he's got his life around.

2327
02:16:45,879 --> 02:16:49,000
Speaker 3: He's a he's a hard working young man, and you

2328
02:16:49,120 --> 02:16:51,320
Speaker 3: all are gonna come to like Marcus. Marcus is a

2329
02:16:51,440 --> 02:16:56,280
Speaker 3: likable guy. And sometimes we go left and right left

2330
02:16:56,400 --> 02:17:00,560
Speaker 3: in life, but Marcus is on the right path. Now,

2331
02:17:00,680 --> 02:17:04,360
Speaker 3: what I want to say, is you know we're seeking

2332
02:17:04,800 --> 02:17:08,840
Speaker 3: we're seeking compensation for him in two ways about what happened,

2333
02:17:08,879 --> 02:17:13,880
Speaker 3: seeking justice for him in two ways. Legally, we're poised

2334
02:17:13,959 --> 02:17:18,760
Speaker 3: to file a civil a major civil rights lawsuit for

2335
02:17:19,560 --> 02:17:23,000
Speaker 3: keeping him behind bars longer than he should have. Uh

2336
02:17:23,400 --> 02:17:28,080
Speaker 3: that that's on the schedule, and Mississippi does not have

2337
02:17:28,280 --> 02:17:32,200
Speaker 3: a but in this case, it's a legal sentencing. But

2338
02:17:32,240 --> 02:17:35,280
Speaker 3: they don't have statutes on the book to cover this.

2339
02:17:35,400 --> 02:17:40,119
Speaker 3: But he has a legal case, a federal civil rights

2340
02:17:40,240 --> 02:17:45,720
Speaker 3: legal case that is on the heroic since we have

2341
02:17:45,879 --> 02:17:50,199
Speaker 3: a unique opportunity for the that the governor has stepped

2342
02:17:50,240 --> 02:17:52,880
Speaker 3: in and said this is wrong. So we're going to

2343
02:17:53,120 --> 02:17:59,440
Speaker 3: the Black Caucus, the black legislators in Mississippi and other

2344
02:17:59,560 --> 02:18:04,000
Speaker 3: legislation and others. We're going to the state legislature also

2345
02:18:04,720 --> 02:18:08,360
Speaker 3: to see if they will pass a special compensation bill

2346
02:18:08,920 --> 02:18:12,760
Speaker 3: for Marcus Taylor, which is done all the time around

2347
02:18:12,800 --> 02:18:13,280
Speaker 3: the country.

2348
02:18:13,879 --> 02:18:16,160
Speaker 2: And so hold up through right there. So we got

2349
02:18:16,200 --> 02:18:18,000
Speaker 2: to take a short break here so our stations can

2350
02:18:18,040 --> 02:18:19,800
Speaker 2: identify themselves down the line. I want to come back

2351
02:18:19,800 --> 02:18:21,800
Speaker 2: and want to ask Marcus how he felt when he

2352
02:18:21,879 --> 02:18:24,800
Speaker 2: found out that he's doing more than the time that

2353
02:18:25,080 --> 02:18:26,480
Speaker 2: he was supposed to do. How is that?

2354
02:18:26,680 --> 02:18:26,920
Speaker 3: You know? What?

2355
02:18:27,280 --> 02:18:29,440
Speaker 2: What was that feeling when you were in prison? Told you, hey, man,

2356
02:18:29,480 --> 02:18:31,720
Speaker 2: you should have been out some time ago. I did

2357
02:18:31,840 --> 02:18:34,120
Speaker 2: Marcus share that with us. Family's just joining us. I

2358
02:18:34,160 --> 02:18:36,880
Speaker 2: guess there's Attorney Malige Shabazza from the Black Lawyers for

2359
02:18:37,080 --> 02:18:39,240
Speaker 2: Justices sharing a couple of criminal cases. Is working on

2360
02:18:39,480 --> 02:18:41,720
Speaker 2: You got questions, reach out to us at eight hundred

2361
02:18:41,760 --> 02:18:44,720
Speaker 2: and four five zero seventy eight seventy six and we'll

2362
02:18:44,760 --> 02:18:47,480
Speaker 2: take you phone calls next and grind Rising family. Thanks

2363
02:18:47,520 --> 02:18:49,600
Speaker 2: are rolling with us on this Thursday morning with our guests.

2364
02:18:49,600 --> 02:18:52,280
Speaker 2: They're the founder of the Black Lawyers for Justice, Attorney

2365
02:18:52,280 --> 02:18:54,640
Speaker 2: Malice Shabazi. These are some of the criminal cases that

2366
02:18:55,000 --> 02:18:56,720
Speaker 2: he takes on. A lot of lawyers they want to

2367
02:18:56,760 --> 02:18:58,520
Speaker 2: deal with this kind of stuff. It's difficult. It's not

2368
02:18:58,600 --> 02:19:01,119
Speaker 2: the easy cases. It's a lot of work, go through

2369
02:19:01,200 --> 02:19:04,120
Speaker 2: discovery and fighting for black folks. It's tough. It's tough work.

2370
02:19:04,160 --> 02:19:06,640
Speaker 2: So I don't just want to congratulate a turning Elicie

2371
02:19:06,680 --> 02:19:08,920
Speaker 2: Shabbaz for taking on these indeavors, because I'm telling you

2372
02:19:09,879 --> 02:19:11,800
Speaker 2: lawyers and some of lars, I know that this is

2373
02:19:11,840 --> 02:19:14,000
Speaker 2: too much work for them. It's not easy. These cases

2374
02:19:14,040 --> 02:19:16,560
Speaker 2: are not easy cases. I wouldn't say that, but Marcus,

2375
02:19:17,000 --> 02:19:20,240
Speaker 2: one of is we talked about with Elite Shabbaz's case,

2376
02:19:20,400 --> 02:19:22,360
Speaker 2: who was who was killed while he was in prison?

2377
02:19:22,720 --> 02:19:25,520
Speaker 2: Marcus Taylor, He who was doing time when he should

2378
02:19:25,560 --> 02:19:28,480
Speaker 2: have been released. So Marcus, what how did you feel

2379
02:19:28,520 --> 02:19:30,640
Speaker 2: when you found out that, Man I could have been

2380
02:19:31,160 --> 02:19:34,240
Speaker 2: I've done my time, you know, I should have been released,

2381
02:19:34,400 --> 02:19:36,560
Speaker 2: but I'm still here. How did that make you feel

2382
02:19:36,760 --> 02:19:37,600
Speaker 2: when you found that out?

2383
02:19:41,440 --> 02:19:47,640
Speaker 14: Well, first of all, I was I was mostly devastated,

2384
02:19:47,800 --> 02:19:49,560
Speaker 14: you know what I'm saying, by the fank did.

2385
02:19:52,080 --> 02:19:55,680
Speaker 12: And you know, you know by the time I know

2386
02:19:55,720 --> 02:19:59,680
Speaker 12: what I'm saying, that I had to do. I did time,

2387
02:20:00,560 --> 02:20:03,400
Speaker 12: you know, like beyond the time then I.

2388
02:20:03,560 --> 02:20:05,240
Speaker 11: Was convicted of it.

2389
02:20:05,440 --> 02:20:07,320
Speaker 12: Just it just it just messed me up all the

2390
02:20:07,360 --> 02:20:10,360
Speaker 12: way around my my you know, just it just.

2391
02:20:10,400 --> 02:20:13,800
Speaker 14: Missed my mind up. It's just I can't I can't words,

2392
02:20:13,840 --> 02:20:16,680
Speaker 14: can't up, can't can't explain how I felt at that moment.

2393
02:20:17,200 --> 02:20:22,320
Speaker 14: I feel like I was I felt betrayed because I

2394
02:20:22,400 --> 02:20:23,600
Speaker 14: can't get that time bank.

2395
02:20:24,320 --> 02:20:25,520
Speaker 12: My kids, like.

2396
02:20:27,080 --> 02:20:31,160
Speaker 14: They you know, they almost grown now, you know, they're teenagers,

2397
02:20:31,240 --> 02:20:35,320
Speaker 14: you know, and I lost all their time. For the

2398
02:20:35,400 --> 02:20:37,840
Speaker 14: most point, I thought about the time that I lost,

2399
02:20:38,959 --> 02:20:42,840
Speaker 14: and it was just I was, I was. I was

2400
02:20:42,920 --> 02:20:44,680
Speaker 14: extremely appalled about it.

2401
02:20:46,640 --> 02:20:49,920
Speaker 2: Oh well, thanks for sharing that, Ma, and good luck

2402
02:20:49,959 --> 02:20:50,560
Speaker 2: in the future.

2403
02:20:51,440 --> 02:20:51,640
Speaker 8: League.

2404
02:20:51,879 --> 02:20:53,480
Speaker 2: How do you put a dollar figure on that, because

2405
02:20:53,480 --> 02:20:55,959
Speaker 2: you know he was corrected that the time that he lost,

2406
02:20:56,080 --> 02:20:58,959
Speaker 2: especially with his children, you can't you know, you can't

2407
02:20:59,000 --> 02:21:02,080
Speaker 2: put a dollar around that. It's chilling a growing he mister,

2408
02:21:02,200 --> 02:21:05,920
Speaker 2: you know, the parenting part of of you know, helping

2409
02:21:06,000 --> 02:21:08,640
Speaker 2: your children. How do you you know, how do you

2410
02:21:08,680 --> 02:21:09,880
Speaker 2: put a dollar figure on that?

2411
02:21:11,480 --> 02:21:14,920
Speaker 3: Well, it's hard to because, as we all know, the

2412
02:21:15,040 --> 02:21:18,280
Speaker 3: most precious and valuable thing any of us have in

2413
02:21:18,440 --> 02:21:22,640
Speaker 3: life is time. And to take the most precious years

2414
02:21:22,760 --> 02:21:26,119
Speaker 3: of his life away time with his children and their

2415
02:21:26,280 --> 02:21:30,160
Speaker 3: developmental years and and just time is that. I mean,

2416
02:21:30,200 --> 02:21:33,400
Speaker 3: that's incredible. And anybody, any of us put in ourselves

2417
02:21:33,480 --> 02:21:38,520
Speaker 3: in market shoes, Uh, that's just it's it's on one hand,

2418
02:21:38,560 --> 02:21:42,840
Speaker 3: it's incalculable, but on the other hand, it has to

2419
02:21:42,959 --> 02:21:47,080
Speaker 3: be calculated. Uh, and so they are. You know, there

2420
02:21:47,120 --> 02:21:50,160
Speaker 3: are different different ranges. This is this is not really

2421
02:21:50,240 --> 02:21:53,960
Speaker 3: a wrongful conviction. This is more so excessive sentencing and

2422
02:21:54,920 --> 02:21:58,280
Speaker 3: and it has value on it. Uh, And so I

2423
02:21:58,720 --> 02:22:01,760
Speaker 3: won't necessarily speak to the value right now. It has

2424
02:22:02,240 --> 02:22:06,520
Speaker 3: has significant value. But instead of speaking to the value

2425
02:22:06,600 --> 02:22:09,000
Speaker 3: right now, but I'm gonna speak to the procedures of

2426
02:22:09,600 --> 02:22:14,080
Speaker 3: of getting this young man compensation and and once again

2427
02:22:14,240 --> 02:22:17,320
Speaker 3: that is that's through legal means, which could be a

2428
02:22:17,440 --> 02:22:21,080
Speaker 3: fight because you know, you've got defenses qual everybody was

2429
02:22:21,160 --> 02:22:24,280
Speaker 3: going to put up qualified immunity defense and it's not

2430
02:22:24,440 --> 02:22:28,160
Speaker 3: easy in Mississippi as it is in other states, which

2431
02:22:28,280 --> 02:22:32,119
Speaker 3: has statutes to address this. However, the unique chance here,

2432
02:22:32,480 --> 02:22:34,880
Speaker 3: as I want to know, the unique chance here is

2433
02:22:34,920 --> 02:22:40,280
Speaker 3: that a Republican governor has part in Marcus and so

2434
02:22:40,520 --> 02:22:45,920
Speaker 3: there there exists a certain amount of good will across

2435
02:22:46,240 --> 02:22:52,520
Speaker 3: party lines, across party lines and the beyond. And I

2436
02:22:52,640 --> 02:22:55,560
Speaker 3: think that the good will that exists is what Black

2437
02:22:55,640 --> 02:22:59,240
Speaker 3: lawyers for justice are seeking to take advantage of. And

2438
02:22:59,480 --> 02:23:02,680
Speaker 3: so uh, in the in the in the I want

2439
02:23:02,720 --> 02:23:05,480
Speaker 3: to give a shout out to Mississippi Attorney Trent Walker,

2440
02:23:06,160 --> 02:23:09,280
Speaker 3: who's who's going to be working with us on this case.

2441
02:23:09,840 --> 02:23:13,520
Speaker 3: And we're counting on legislators, yes, in the Black legislature,

2442
02:23:13,640 --> 02:23:18,039
Speaker 3: initially to help put the bill, the compensation bill from

2443
02:23:18,160 --> 02:23:21,600
Speaker 3: Marcus Taylor and Maurice if possible, But I know for

2444
02:23:21,800 --> 02:23:27,880
Speaker 3: Marcus Taylor were expecting a compensation bill for Marcus Taylor

2445
02:23:28,040 --> 02:23:34,680
Speaker 3: to come into the Mississippi legislation across party lines and

2446
02:23:34,959 --> 02:23:39,440
Speaker 3: give this young man the compensation he deserves because he

2447
02:23:39,600 --> 02:23:42,960
Speaker 3: was done wrong by the state, done wrong by the courts,

2448
02:23:43,440 --> 02:23:47,080
Speaker 3: done wrong by the prosecutors, and sadly done wrong by

2449
02:23:47,160 --> 02:23:53,400
Speaker 3: his by his own attorneys at many points. And so, uh,

2450
02:23:53,959 --> 02:23:56,280
Speaker 3: you know, I don't want to put a value out

2451
02:23:56,320 --> 02:23:58,080
Speaker 3: here in public on it right now, but I would

2452
02:23:58,080 --> 02:24:02,800
Speaker 3: say it's substantial because it's nothing more valuable than time

2453
02:24:03,520 --> 02:24:06,640
Speaker 3: than time. If you all want to support this case, also,

2454
02:24:06,680 --> 02:24:09,120
Speaker 3: I will give you a number. I want you to

2455
02:24:09,200 --> 02:24:14,200
Speaker 3: text me at four oh two, four oh six eight

2456
02:24:14,480 --> 02:24:19,160
Speaker 3: eight zero seven three five two four oh six eight

2457
02:24:19,240 --> 02:24:23,400
Speaker 3: eight zero seven three fives as we fight for Marcus.

2458
02:24:24,160 --> 02:24:24,280
Speaker 15: Uh.

2459
02:24:24,640 --> 02:24:29,320
Speaker 3: There as you can help Marcus, help a young black

2460
02:24:29,400 --> 02:24:35,039
Speaker 3: man who lost, who lost many years in behind bars

2461
02:24:35,120 --> 02:24:38,000
Speaker 3: that he shouldn't have, text text us and find out

2462
02:24:38,080 --> 02:24:41,480
Speaker 3: how you can help on this campaign to get justice

2463
02:24:41,560 --> 02:24:44,560
Speaker 3: for Marcus Taylor and to and to support him right

2464
02:24:44,640 --> 02:24:46,600
Speaker 3: now as he tries to live a good life and

2465
02:24:46,680 --> 02:24:48,520
Speaker 3: a life is good for him and his family.

2466
02:24:49,600 --> 02:24:51,480
Speaker 2: All right, hold up? All right? That eight after the top,

2467
02:24:51,560 --> 02:24:54,360
Speaker 2: there are Christian's callings from Malibourne, California. Has got a

2468
02:24:54,440 --> 02:24:57,920
Speaker 2: question or a comment for Marcus and you, Attorney Malik

2469
02:24:58,280 --> 02:25:01,279
Speaker 2: Christian grand Rising, Good.

2470
02:25:01,120 --> 02:25:04,840
Speaker 11: Morning, gentlemen, Marcus Man, you up and running now. Man,

2471
02:25:04,920 --> 02:25:07,280
Speaker 11: your whole life is ahead of you. Tell us what

2472
02:25:07,400 --> 02:25:10,680
Speaker 11: your plans are and what are you thinking about doing.

2473
02:25:10,760 --> 02:25:14,039
Speaker 11: I know we had some time when you sitting down

2474
02:25:14,720 --> 02:25:16,680
Speaker 11: what you're gonna move forward to, So tell us how

2475
02:25:16,720 --> 02:25:20,039
Speaker 11: you're gonna go ahead and implement those uh those drinks.

2476
02:25:21,959 --> 02:25:22,680
Speaker 2: All right, thanks for.

2477
02:25:24,240 --> 02:25:24,600
Speaker 3: Right now.

2478
02:25:26,440 --> 02:25:31,600
Speaker 14: I'm I'm working at US Foods and I'm just taking

2479
02:25:31,640 --> 02:25:33,440
Speaker 14: it one day at a time, trying to you know

2480
02:25:33,480 --> 02:25:35,760
Speaker 14: what I'm saying, pursue things that need.

2481
02:25:35,680 --> 02:25:36,160
Speaker 11: To be done.

2482
02:25:36,840 --> 02:25:40,720
Speaker 14: And my goal is the Finn you know, you know,

2483
02:25:41,879 --> 02:25:45,760
Speaker 14: established things for my family and keep you know, just

2484
02:25:45,879 --> 02:25:47,840
Speaker 14: keep moving forward, you know what I'm saying, Trying to

2485
02:25:47,879 --> 02:25:48,680
Speaker 14: put this behind me.

2486
02:25:48,760 --> 02:25:49,400
Speaker 11: Much as I can.

2487
02:25:50,360 --> 02:25:53,880
Speaker 14: I'm thinking about running my own little bidiness, you know

2488
02:25:53,920 --> 02:25:56,800
Speaker 14: what I'm saying, like drink, driving a bombs truck and.

2489
02:25:58,760 --> 02:26:03,840
Speaker 12: And h I think there's probably, you know, for the

2490
02:26:03,959 --> 02:26:05,640
Speaker 12: goals right now, I just gonna just do it one

2491
02:26:05,720 --> 02:26:08,560
Speaker 12: day at a time, all right.

2492
02:26:08,560 --> 02:26:11,680
Speaker 2: You take it slow. That's a good move. Thanks, Thanks

2493
02:26:11,720 --> 02:26:12,120
Speaker 2: for sure.

2494
02:26:12,959 --> 02:26:15,760
Speaker 3: All right, before we let y'all know, I want to

2495
02:26:15,760 --> 02:26:17,640
Speaker 3: say something quickly, I want to let y'all know in

2496
02:26:17,680 --> 02:26:20,720
Speaker 3: the little in the radio listening audience that that he

2497
02:26:20,840 --> 02:26:24,680
Speaker 3: has the advantage of our of our mentorship here and

2498
02:26:24,800 --> 02:26:27,280
Speaker 3: I want you to follow this case of market sailor

2499
02:26:27,360 --> 02:26:32,080
Speaker 3: because we are pursuing the best for him, not only compensation,

2500
02:26:33,000 --> 02:26:36,680
Speaker 3: but the best through our through our connections. He should

2501
02:26:36,680 --> 02:26:39,840
Speaker 3: have the best of employment and and he's going to

2502
02:26:39,920 --> 02:26:43,440
Speaker 3: receive a lot more support than you would think of

2503
02:26:43,680 --> 02:26:46,120
Speaker 3: in many areas and whatever he wants to do in

2504
02:26:46,240 --> 02:26:49,840
Speaker 3: life that he is going to be receiving that supports

2505
02:26:50,440 --> 02:26:53,400
Speaker 3: uh to carry out a better path in life in

2506
02:26:53,600 --> 02:26:54,199
Speaker 3: many ways.

2507
02:26:55,560 --> 02:26:57,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's going to be the issue if if

2508
02:26:57,800 --> 02:26:59,760
Speaker 2: at the end of this, when he does it gets

2509
02:26:59,800 --> 02:27:02,720
Speaker 2: his just rewards. That all the shocks are going to

2510
02:27:02,760 --> 02:27:04,640
Speaker 2: be around there, all the family members. You need to know,

2511
02:27:04,879 --> 02:27:07,560
Speaker 2: everybody will be around with tips and you know, trying

2512
02:27:07,600 --> 02:27:09,640
Speaker 2: to take you know, take advantage of the brother. So

2513
02:27:10,400 --> 02:27:13,280
Speaker 2: Attorney Malik Shabouts I'm glad that you grounded him and

2514
02:27:13,480 --> 02:27:15,240
Speaker 2: going to surround him with people who can help him.

2515
02:27:17,760 --> 02:27:19,400
Speaker 3: I privilege, I privilege.

2516
02:27:19,400 --> 02:27:23,080
Speaker 2: All right, Marcus, I thank if you're sharing your thoughts

2517
02:27:23,120 --> 02:27:25,800
Speaker 2: with us this morning, and you know, and good luck

2518
02:27:25,879 --> 02:27:28,879
Speaker 2: brother and attorney Malik. We're gonna move on to Irando.

2519
02:27:28,959 --> 02:27:30,680
Speaker 2: Before we do that. At first, I just want to

2520
02:27:30,720 --> 02:27:33,200
Speaker 2: congratulate relate to you for taking on these cases. As

2521
02:27:33,240 --> 02:27:36,480
Speaker 2: I mentioned, these are not easy cases. These are not

2522
02:27:36,800 --> 02:27:39,360
Speaker 2: really easy case. There's a lot of work you got

2523
02:27:39,440 --> 02:27:41,560
Speaker 2: to put in to do this stuff like this, both

2524
02:27:41,600 --> 02:27:44,720
Speaker 2: of these cases, just just thinking about them, just going

2525
02:27:44,760 --> 02:27:47,800
Speaker 2: through the discovery process because there's so much you got

2526
02:27:47,920 --> 02:27:50,080
Speaker 2: to on cover. So first I want to congratulate you

2527
02:27:50,200 --> 02:27:52,039
Speaker 2: for doing this. But let me ask you this though.

2528
02:27:52,080 --> 02:27:55,320
Speaker 2: Why because you could be on Easy Street as an attorney,

2529
02:27:55,480 --> 02:27:58,640
Speaker 2: you could be doing mortgages or entertainment law or all

2530
02:27:58,720 --> 02:28:01,520
Speaker 2: the other things you know, just Jeff paper, divorces, whatever,

2531
02:28:02,240 --> 02:28:03,760
Speaker 2: But you became a criminal attorney.

2532
02:28:03,840 --> 02:28:08,800
Speaker 3: Why Well, well this is a racial fight. Well, racial

2533
02:28:08,879 --> 02:28:11,680
Speaker 3: fight is my fight. First of all, I do want

2534
02:28:11,680 --> 02:28:15,720
Speaker 3: to acknowledge that there's there's a national shortage of of

2535
02:28:16,200 --> 02:28:21,600
Speaker 3: of of civil rights lawyers and constitutional lawyers, and in

2536
02:28:21,720 --> 02:28:25,320
Speaker 3: this case, these are the civil aspects of criminal cases.

2537
02:28:25,400 --> 02:28:28,520
Speaker 3: You're talking about things that happen once a person is

2538
02:28:28,640 --> 02:28:32,160
Speaker 3: behind bars and so forth. Other world. I do what

2539
02:28:32,240 --> 02:28:35,080
Speaker 3: I do, brother, because I have to. I was I

2540
02:28:35,240 --> 02:28:37,920
Speaker 3: was trained to do this, and it's not easy. I

2541
02:28:37,959 --> 02:28:41,240
Speaker 3: could be on many easy street and in many ways,

2542
02:28:42,280 --> 02:28:45,680
Speaker 3: but you know, lawyer in work is not an easy work.

2543
02:28:45,760 --> 02:28:48,480
Speaker 3: That's why it's a national shortage of attorneys that want

2544
02:28:48,520 --> 02:28:52,800
Speaker 3: to do this work, especially litigation work. But brother, I

2545
02:28:52,959 --> 02:28:55,400
Speaker 3: have to do it. I mean it's called they struggle

2546
02:28:55,600 --> 02:28:58,600
Speaker 3: for a reason. And if this is my position that

2547
02:28:58,720 --> 02:29:00,880
Speaker 3: I'm putting in and I have the man up and

2548
02:29:01,400 --> 02:29:04,359
Speaker 3: and do the best I can. I get many calls

2549
02:29:04,640 --> 02:29:07,960
Speaker 3: all the time about all kinds of racial problems. I

2550
02:29:08,080 --> 02:29:10,680
Speaker 3: have to narrow my focus to see which cases that

2551
02:29:10,800 --> 02:29:13,000
Speaker 3: I can take on and I have the time to

2552
02:29:13,160 --> 02:29:17,080
Speaker 3: take on. And I believe I'm doing it. And I

2553
02:29:17,160 --> 02:29:19,520
Speaker 3: want to thank the other attorneys and black lawyers for

2554
02:29:19,760 --> 02:29:22,440
Speaker 3: justice that are that are fighting with us to to

2555
02:29:22,800 --> 02:29:25,640
Speaker 3: to do it. It's not an easy work, but you know,

2556
02:29:27,480 --> 02:29:29,880
Speaker 3: how we're going to get free without freedom is not

2557
02:29:29,959 --> 02:29:32,360
Speaker 3: going to be given to us. So I come in.

2558
02:29:32,720 --> 02:29:35,920
Speaker 3: I got to say that Charles Hamilton Houston worked hard

2559
02:29:36,040 --> 02:29:39,880
Speaker 3: and struggled hard before me, My brother toorney Donald Temple

2560
02:29:40,000 --> 02:29:44,040
Speaker 3: and Greg Latimer and Johnny Cochrane rest his soul worked

2561
02:29:44,080 --> 02:29:47,800
Speaker 3: hard before me. So so we just keep on fighting, Brotherren.

2562
02:29:48,160 --> 02:29:50,440
Speaker 3: And the fact that you appreciate it is enough, and

2563
02:29:50,560 --> 02:29:53,560
Speaker 3: the fact that people appreciate it is is enough to

2564
02:29:53,680 --> 02:29:55,080
Speaker 3: keep to keep right on working.

2565
02:29:56,160 --> 02:29:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know, you look at the scope of

2566
02:29:58,080 --> 02:29:59,760
Speaker 2: the work that you do on the casis that you

2567
02:30:00,720 --> 02:30:02,560
Speaker 2: And that was gonna be my next question. Who who

2568
02:30:02,680 --> 02:30:05,880
Speaker 2: sort of set the example, set the pace for you

2569
02:30:06,000 --> 02:30:08,160
Speaker 2: with that? You now picked up the baton because a

2570
02:30:08,320 --> 02:30:10,800
Speaker 2: lot of lawyers, and everybody knows lawyers, you know, like

2571
02:30:10,879 --> 02:30:12,840
Speaker 2: I said, you could be sitting on Easy Street. They

2572
02:30:12,879 --> 02:30:16,280
Speaker 2: don't do litigation. They just pushed paper, you know. But

2573
02:30:16,440 --> 02:30:18,520
Speaker 2: you've you've taken up, you know, to help our people.

2574
02:30:18,640 --> 02:30:20,880
Speaker 2: I was trying to figure out where that where that

2575
02:30:21,040 --> 02:30:23,760
Speaker 2: started from. Was was that in law school? After law school?

2576
02:30:23,800 --> 02:30:24,560
Speaker 2: Pre law school?

2577
02:30:26,640 --> 02:30:26,920
Speaker 4: Okay?

2578
02:30:27,160 --> 02:30:30,600
Speaker 3: Uh, what was that final part of that statement about.

2579
02:30:32,120 --> 02:30:32,160
Speaker 15: It?

2580
02:30:32,320 --> 02:30:34,400
Speaker 2: Was it pre law school that you thought about doing

2581
02:30:34,480 --> 02:30:36,680
Speaker 2: this when you decided you're going to go to law school,

2582
02:30:36,760 --> 02:30:38,800
Speaker 2: this is what you're going to do. Defend our people,

2583
02:30:40,040 --> 02:30:43,120
Speaker 2: our rights civil rights attorneys if you will, or was

2584
02:30:43,200 --> 02:30:45,680
Speaker 2: it during law school or after law school?

2585
02:30:47,000 --> 02:30:52,400
Speaker 3: It was a combination. Here. First of all, you know

2586
02:30:52,720 --> 02:30:56,680
Speaker 3: I have extensive political background with the with the Nation

2587
02:30:56,840 --> 02:30:59,600
Speaker 3: of Islam, and so I have to say that doctor

2588
02:30:59,640 --> 02:31:05,680
Speaker 3: Kuhl Mohammad Uh strongly encouraged me and pushed me to

2589
02:31:05,840 --> 02:31:09,760
Speaker 3: be a warrior lawyer. Uh in the spirit of another

2590
02:31:09,879 --> 02:31:14,360
Speaker 3: man that I admired greatly, Attorney Alton Maddocks and and

2591
02:31:14,560 --> 02:31:18,320
Speaker 3: so so my Alton Maddox had a direct impact on me.

2592
02:31:18,400 --> 02:31:22,200
Speaker 3: He came to Howard University Law School, doctor Khalib Muhammad

2593
02:31:22,400 --> 02:31:25,680
Speaker 3: was behind me. I have to say that I have

2594
02:31:25,800 --> 02:31:29,240
Speaker 3: to again thank you my mentor here in the DC area,

2595
02:31:29,360 --> 02:31:34,400
Speaker 3: Attorney Donald Temple Uh great police brutality and civil lawyer,

2596
02:31:34,480 --> 02:31:40,000
Speaker 3: Attorney Greg Latimer. I've also received mentoring and direct relations

2597
02:31:40,200 --> 02:31:46,320
Speaker 3: legal training from the great attorney and former mayor of Jackson, Mississippi,

2598
02:31:46,520 --> 02:31:51,720
Speaker 3: choke Way Lamoumba Uh. Johnny Cochrane was an inspiration. I

2599
02:31:52,000 --> 02:31:54,840
Speaker 3: did have some interactions with him. He's a great inspiration.

2600
02:31:55,080 --> 02:31:59,560
Speaker 3: So uh, I guess these are my these are the

2601
02:32:00,000 --> 02:32:03,520
Speaker 3: inspirations I have and I know that this is my role.

2602
02:32:03,640 --> 02:32:05,400
Speaker 3: You know, as soon as I got out of law school,

2603
02:32:05,600 --> 02:32:09,039
Speaker 3: I was working with the million used March and doctor

2604
02:32:09,120 --> 02:32:12,920
Speaker 3: Khalib Muhammad, and we had to immediately fight the City

2605
02:32:13,000 --> 02:32:16,120
Speaker 3: of New York in federal court and win against the

2606
02:32:16,240 --> 02:32:19,480
Speaker 3: City of New York in federal court for blocking his

2607
02:32:19,720 --> 02:32:22,280
Speaker 3: right to march. So therefore I knew right away that

2608
02:32:22,440 --> 02:32:26,760
Speaker 3: this special role I had was valuable to the struggle,

2609
02:32:28,760 --> 02:32:30,480
Speaker 3: and so I have to do what I have to do.

2610
02:32:30,640 --> 02:32:34,800
Speaker 3: I've been criticized, but remarkably some have criticized me for

2611
02:32:35,000 --> 02:32:37,480
Speaker 3: being a lawyer, but I think they understand a little

2612
02:32:37,480 --> 02:32:41,520
Speaker 3: bit better now about the tactical role that a lawyer

2613
02:32:41,640 --> 02:32:45,119
Speaker 3: plays and our liberation struggle. I do have another case

2614
02:32:45,200 --> 02:32:47,240
Speaker 3: here before we talk about the war, and that's the

2615
02:32:47,320 --> 02:32:51,600
Speaker 3: case of the DC Hot Sauce case with the teacher.

2616
02:32:53,520 --> 02:32:55,400
Speaker 3: I don't know if we're going to go to that one.

2617
02:32:55,480 --> 02:32:59,400
Speaker 2: Next. We have some folks on the line for you

2618
02:32:59,760 --> 02:33:01,280
Speaker 2: who who who?

2619
02:33:02,640 --> 02:33:04,360
Speaker 3: And then come to it. Well, we had we're looking

2620
02:33:04,440 --> 02:33:11,800
Speaker 3: for Dornessa Harris, all right, Dornessa Okay, Okay, I'm sure

2621
02:33:11,840 --> 02:33:14,000
Speaker 3: we got plenty of questions here, so we'll come to him.

2622
02:33:14,080 --> 02:33:18,200
Speaker 3: But now, this is the DC case of the DC

2623
02:33:18,680 --> 02:33:27,680
Speaker 3: teacher's assistant who disciplined Dornessa's nephew, the son of Denise Griggs,

2624
02:33:28,080 --> 02:33:32,080
Speaker 3: little David UH. And Little David is a student at

2625
02:33:32,280 --> 02:33:38,600
Speaker 3: noll n A lll E Elementary in Washington, d C. Sadly,

2626
02:33:38,800 --> 02:33:44,320
Speaker 3: what happened is on September eleventh of last year, Little David,

2627
02:33:45,000 --> 02:33:51,160
Speaker 3: who who who suffers from a disability, who is nonverbal

2628
02:33:51,760 --> 02:33:56,960
Speaker 3: meaning he can't speak out to articulate himself at this

2629
02:33:57,160 --> 02:34:03,400
Speaker 3: stage UH and suffers from a stability, was reprimanded and

2630
02:34:03,640 --> 02:34:09,720
Speaker 3: disciplined by a teacher's aide who put hot sauce on

2631
02:34:09,959 --> 02:34:14,920
Speaker 3: her fingers and put it down the mouth and the

2632
02:34:15,160 --> 02:34:20,560
Speaker 3: throat of little David. He had now elementary school. And

2633
02:34:20,720 --> 02:34:23,160
Speaker 3: this case is all in the news in DC because

2634
02:34:23,200 --> 02:34:30,480
Speaker 3: it is outraged advocates of children's child advocates, advocates for

2635
02:34:30,600 --> 02:34:34,400
Speaker 3: the disabled, and this shouldn't happen in our community. So

2636
02:34:34,600 --> 02:34:40,600
Speaker 3: what happened was David has a strong mother who and

2637
02:34:40,840 --> 02:34:42,840
Speaker 3: some of y'all have seen us on the local news,

2638
02:34:43,640 --> 02:34:48,000
Speaker 3: and Sani stood up and we stood up, and the

2639
02:34:48,240 --> 02:34:53,000
Speaker 3: teacher's aide was arrested and did.

2640
02:34:54,480 --> 02:34:55,520
Speaker 4: Two weeks ago.

2641
02:34:57,160 --> 02:35:01,680
Speaker 3: Plead guilty in DC Superior court for simple assault against

2642
02:35:01,840 --> 02:35:06,840
Speaker 3: David and that's where this case is now and this

2643
02:35:07,040 --> 02:35:08,400
Speaker 3: is a significant case.

2644
02:35:10,959 --> 02:35:12,640
Speaker 2: Hold that thought right there. We got to step aside

2645
02:35:12,680 --> 02:35:15,120
Speaker 2: for a few moments, Attorney Elite Shabaz, and when we

2646
02:35:15,200 --> 02:35:18,680
Speaker 2: come back, we'll also meet Donessa as well. This case

2647
02:35:18,760 --> 02:35:21,320
Speaker 2: made national news, by the way, seventeen minutes off the

2648
02:35:21,360 --> 02:35:22,600
Speaker 2: top of the our family, you want to get in

2649
02:35:22,680 --> 02:35:25,480
Speaker 2: on this conversation with the attorney Elie Shabaz and his

2650
02:35:25,720 --> 02:35:29,320
Speaker 2: current client right now, Donesssa with the hot sauce case

2651
02:35:29,520 --> 02:35:32,040
Speaker 2: in Washington DC. You know how to reach us eight

2652
02:35:32,160 --> 02:35:35,360
Speaker 2: hundred four or five zero seventy eight seventy six and

2653
02:35:35,440 --> 02:35:38,160
Speaker 2: we'll take you phone calls next and Grand Rising family

2654
02:35:38,240 --> 02:35:40,720
Speaker 2: twenty one minutes after the top down. Thanks staying with

2655
02:35:40,840 --> 02:35:43,359
Speaker 2: us on this Thursday morning with our guest attorney League Shabaz.

2656
02:35:43,400 --> 02:35:45,640
Speaker 2: And before we left, he was telling us about this case,

2657
02:35:45,720 --> 02:35:48,560
Speaker 2: the hot sauce case in Washington, d C. The teacher's

2658
02:35:48,600 --> 02:35:52,240
Speaker 2: aid forced the hot sauce down the mouth of one

2659
02:35:52,280 --> 02:35:54,920
Speaker 2: of the students. So, Attorney Millie, can you introduce Duanessa

2660
02:35:55,040 --> 02:35:55,320
Speaker 2: for us?

2661
02:35:57,160 --> 02:36:00,160
Speaker 3: Hey, I want to introduce first of all, all the

2662
02:36:00,240 --> 02:36:02,960
Speaker 3: cages we're talking about y'all can go online and read

2663
02:36:03,040 --> 02:36:06,119
Speaker 3: about it. Go on and put in your search engine

2664
02:36:06,320 --> 02:36:13,720
Speaker 3: Marcus Taylor Mississippi and pardon. Put Marcus Taylor, Mississippi. Pardon

2665
02:36:14,120 --> 02:36:16,520
Speaker 3: put that in your search Read more about the caps.

2666
02:36:17,000 --> 02:36:20,440
Speaker 3: Go in there in the search bar put Malik Carter

2667
02:36:21,400 --> 02:36:27,680
Speaker 3: death usp Lee. Read about it. Malik Carter death, usp

2668
02:36:27,920 --> 02:36:30,360
Speaker 3: Lee read about it. I want you all to now

2669
02:36:30,480 --> 02:36:34,760
Speaker 3: receive a dedicated aunt who I've worked with for many years,

2670
02:36:34,840 --> 02:36:38,120
Speaker 3: a dedicated advocate in the district of Columbia that cares

2671
02:36:38,200 --> 02:36:41,760
Speaker 3: about our people. And she's the aunt of little David.

2672
02:36:42,240 --> 02:36:44,960
Speaker 3: So as we say this morning, justice for little David,

2673
02:36:45,000 --> 02:36:47,440
Speaker 3: I want you to receive his auntie, miss or Neessa.

2674
02:36:48,520 --> 02:36:52,200
Speaker 2: All right, Auntie, good morning, welcome grand rising to the program.

2675
02:36:53,480 --> 02:36:54,000
Speaker 9: Good morning.

2676
02:36:55,520 --> 02:36:57,360
Speaker 2: Tell us what happened? When did you find out about

2677
02:36:57,400 --> 02:36:57,960
Speaker 2: this incident?

2678
02:37:01,000 --> 02:37:04,400
Speaker 16: First of all, I didn't find out about the incident

2679
02:37:04,600 --> 02:37:10,320
Speaker 16: until uh, maybe two weeks so maybe a month later,

2680
02:37:11,160 --> 02:37:16,520
Speaker 16: after the DC Police Department came back and said that

2681
02:37:16,560 --> 02:37:20,800
Speaker 16: they were getting no charges. So at that point there

2682
02:37:20,879 --> 02:37:23,280
Speaker 16: was no charges want to be fouled at that point

2683
02:37:23,680 --> 02:37:25,880
Speaker 16: his mother finally, so yeah, it was a month later

2684
02:37:26,440 --> 02:37:30,360
Speaker 16: his mother came back called his mother's grandmother called me

2685
02:37:30,640 --> 02:37:34,000
Speaker 16: and were crying, telling me, you know what had happened

2686
02:37:34,400 --> 02:37:36,760
Speaker 16: When they told me that the police officer was on

2687
02:37:37,000 --> 02:37:41,760
Speaker 16: vacation and the file just sat on his death until

2688
02:37:41,800 --> 02:37:44,720
Speaker 16: he returned. Then he came back, He came back and

2689
02:37:44,800 --> 02:37:49,240
Speaker 16: said no charges. I immediately put him to paper and

2690
02:37:50,080 --> 02:37:55,480
Speaker 16: I emailed doctor Schabez. I mean, just just a flew

2691
02:37:55,640 --> 02:38:02,040
Speaker 16: of emails demanding accountability. So that's where I picked up

2692
02:38:02,800 --> 02:38:04,760
Speaker 16: on the story. Where I found out everything that we

2693
02:38:04,879 --> 02:38:08,480
Speaker 16: made me live it was that they took so little

2694
02:38:08,640 --> 02:38:11,680
Speaker 16: care or cared so little about a child who has

2695
02:38:11,920 --> 02:38:17,320
Speaker 16: autism autism and cannot verbally speak, so meaning it does

2696
02:38:17,440 --> 02:38:22,120
Speaker 16: not click in his mind that someone did something wrong

2697
02:38:22,200 --> 02:38:27,200
Speaker 16: to him. He can't communicate that what's wrong with him.

2698
02:38:27,280 --> 02:38:31,320
Speaker 16: He can't tell you something is hurting, his mouth is burning.

2699
02:38:31,680 --> 02:38:35,200
Speaker 16: He can't tell you that he sits there, that he

2700
02:38:35,400 --> 02:38:39,400
Speaker 16: sits there with no expression. So you never know the

2701
02:38:39,520 --> 02:38:42,520
Speaker 16: pain for this young lady to put hot sauce in

2702
02:38:42,640 --> 02:38:46,720
Speaker 16: his mouth, and then for the school system or the

2703
02:38:46,800 --> 02:38:50,840
Speaker 16: teacher not to report it until after school when it

2704
02:38:50,959 --> 02:38:54,960
Speaker 16: happened at lunchtime. Had me live it simply because his

2705
02:38:55,160 --> 02:38:57,600
Speaker 16: mouth was sitting there burning what type of aid did

2706
02:38:57,680 --> 02:39:00,560
Speaker 16: you give him? Did you give him meal to follow

2707
02:39:00,680 --> 02:39:05,160
Speaker 16: up with the hot sauce? How was David suffering? How

2708
02:39:05,320 --> 02:39:08,840
Speaker 16: was he suffering? Was he suffering at that point? And

2709
02:39:09,000 --> 02:39:12,520
Speaker 16: I am just living. I'm hurt that Chinese put her

2710
02:39:12,680 --> 02:39:18,600
Speaker 16: child in the hands of licensed professionals supposedly to take

2711
02:39:18,720 --> 02:39:22,760
Speaker 16: care of her child, my nephew, and this for this.

2712
02:39:23,000 --> 02:39:25,840
Speaker 2: To happen, all right, Dunia, let me ask you us

2713
02:39:25,840 --> 02:39:27,760
Speaker 2: a twenty five out the talk, he says he's on

2714
02:39:27,840 --> 02:39:30,240
Speaker 2: the spectrum. How old is he? And what did he

2715
02:39:30,360 --> 02:39:31,440
Speaker 2: do though to deserve this?

2716
02:39:33,200 --> 02:39:36,000
Speaker 16: He's ten years though we don't know what he did.

2717
02:39:36,240 --> 02:39:41,160
Speaker 16: I David. David is a child who will sit there

2718
02:39:41,440 --> 02:39:45,560
Speaker 16: and just play on his laptop. He's a He's a

2719
02:39:45,840 --> 02:39:49,040
Speaker 16: sweet child. He does not he doesn't do anything. He

2720
02:39:49,160 --> 02:39:51,760
Speaker 16: doesn't do anything. If he does mess with something, you

2721
02:39:51,920 --> 02:39:55,240
Speaker 16: tell him to stop. You have to tell him something repeatedly. Yes,

2722
02:39:55,640 --> 02:39:57,560
Speaker 16: and I know that it's time consul me. But that

2723
02:39:57,720 --> 02:40:01,960
Speaker 16: is what special educ is for. You're supposed to have

2724
02:40:02,720 --> 02:40:05,600
Speaker 16: leniency for these children and be able to work with

2725
02:40:05,720 --> 02:40:09,840
Speaker 16: these children. David can't comprehend when he's doing something wrong.

2726
02:40:09,920 --> 02:40:13,600
Speaker 16: He really can't. He's not the comprehension is just not

2727
02:40:13,760 --> 02:40:18,520
Speaker 16: there and whatever he did, it does not justify putting

2728
02:40:18,560 --> 02:40:19,600
Speaker 16: hot sauce in his mouth.

2729
02:40:20,120 --> 02:40:22,600
Speaker 2: All right, let me jump to this. Did the teacher's

2730
02:40:22,640 --> 02:40:25,520
Speaker 2: aid know that David was on the spectrum non verbal?

2731
02:40:26,840 --> 02:40:32,240
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, absolutely. So we want to say this that

2732
02:40:35,160 --> 02:40:42,200
Speaker 3: working with persons with disabilities requires a special training to

2733
02:40:42,320 --> 02:40:46,240
Speaker 3: show that this teacher's aid and Miss Davis had not

2734
02:40:46,480 --> 02:40:50,600
Speaker 3: been trained at all. Her recorded statement to the police

2735
02:40:50,879 --> 02:40:54,080
Speaker 3: and when asked what did David? Why did she do it?

2736
02:40:54,280 --> 02:40:58,680
Speaker 3: She said because little David deserved it. Because he deserved it. Now,

2737
02:40:58,760 --> 02:41:02,720
Speaker 3: that's the height of being untrained in this field. I've

2738
02:41:02,760 --> 02:41:05,160
Speaker 3: been blessed to work in the field with persons with

2739
02:41:05,879 --> 02:41:10,480
Speaker 3: disabilities for many years, and mister Nessa's right. Not only

2740
02:41:10,560 --> 02:41:15,480
Speaker 3: does it require patience, it requires training and understanding. Many

2741
02:41:15,600 --> 02:41:20,680
Speaker 3: persons who who are disabled and are nonverbal, they're being

2742
02:41:20,720 --> 02:41:23,920
Speaker 3: abused right now. They're being abused. You just didn't know

2743
02:41:24,000 --> 02:41:26,000
Speaker 3: about it, or you didn't find out about it. And

2744
02:41:27,080 --> 02:41:33,200
Speaker 3: so even in this case where a guilty plead was

2745
02:41:33,280 --> 02:41:36,080
Speaker 3: in it, and that's rare that these cases even get

2746
02:41:36,160 --> 02:41:38,720
Speaker 3: to court, I know it. I know for a fact

2747
02:41:38,760 --> 02:41:42,760
Speaker 3: that it happens around the District of Columbia with persons

2748
02:41:42,800 --> 02:41:45,800
Speaker 3: that are not able to articulate and stand up for

2749
02:41:45,879 --> 02:41:51,040
Speaker 3: themselves are being handled and abused and even assaulted, but

2750
02:41:51,120 --> 02:41:53,880
Speaker 3: it never rises to the court levels. So that's the

2751
02:41:54,000 --> 02:41:58,200
Speaker 3: kudos to the advocacy of these strong family members that

2752
02:41:58,320 --> 02:42:01,800
Speaker 3: are here. Family member her on this line, and mom.

2753
02:42:01,720 --> 02:42:05,560
Speaker 2: Here, I gotta ask this question though, counselor.

2754
02:42:05,440 --> 02:42:07,920
Speaker 3: She said nothing that a child does to deserve this.

2755
02:42:08,320 --> 02:42:10,040
Speaker 2: Right now, And that's the question I was going to

2756
02:42:10,080 --> 02:42:12,280
Speaker 2: ask you twenty eight after talk the art you said

2757
02:42:12,360 --> 02:42:15,160
Speaker 2: he deserved it. Did any did they press further? What

2758
02:42:15,360 --> 02:42:19,400
Speaker 2: did he deserve? Why did he deserve having hot cels

2759
02:42:19,400 --> 02:42:20,080
Speaker 2: put in his mouth?

2760
02:42:21,640 --> 02:42:23,560
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, that's enough in it of itself. Once you

2761
02:42:23,680 --> 02:42:27,440
Speaker 3: say you you you are taking action like that against

2762
02:42:27,480 --> 02:42:30,960
Speaker 3: a child and he deserved it that and you headed

2763
02:42:31,080 --> 02:42:35,560
Speaker 3: right off to DC Superior Court because because I mean,

2764
02:42:35,600 --> 02:42:38,520
Speaker 3: that's just the most ignorant, that's the most ignorant and

2765
02:42:38,640 --> 02:42:43,080
Speaker 3: abusive statement. And and and that just means you just

2766
02:42:43,160 --> 02:42:45,920
Speaker 3: took any action in your own hand that you weren't

2767
02:42:45,959 --> 02:42:49,320
Speaker 3: properly trained and you weren't supervised. I do give the

2768
02:42:49,440 --> 02:42:52,760
Speaker 3: school and the administrator's credit for reporting Miss Davis when

2769
02:42:52,800 --> 02:42:58,360
Speaker 3: they found her doing this to David on a break time.

2770
02:42:58,440 --> 02:43:01,360
Speaker 3: When they found her doing this, they reported it. They

2771
02:43:01,440 --> 02:43:05,560
Speaker 3: didn't cover it up. And because in the disability field,

2772
02:43:06,000 --> 02:43:09,600
Speaker 3: you're supposed to be a mandated reporter, and this is

2773
02:43:09,720 --> 02:43:14,240
Speaker 3: one time I guess when reporting worked. But I would

2774
02:43:14,280 --> 02:43:17,120
Speaker 3: say in conclusion here that I want you all to

2775
02:43:17,240 --> 02:43:22,160
Speaker 3: keep you'all case your eyes on the DC teaches hot

2776
02:43:22,280 --> 02:43:26,920
Speaker 3: soft case and justice for little David, because David is

2777
02:43:27,000 --> 02:43:29,959
Speaker 3: not the same. Little David does not have the same

2778
02:43:30,120 --> 02:43:34,520
Speaker 3: attitude towards school, the same disposition towards school, the same

2779
02:43:34,800 --> 02:43:38,920
Speaker 3: enthusiasm towards school, the same demeanor towards school. He does

2780
02:43:39,000 --> 02:43:42,920
Speaker 3: not have that. And although he can't articulate it, it's evident.

2781
02:43:43,680 --> 02:43:48,760
Speaker 3: And so we're hoping that the District of Columbia government

2782
02:43:48,959 --> 02:43:52,360
Speaker 3: is going to do the right thing as it cleans

2783
02:43:52,440 --> 02:43:55,480
Speaker 3: up his act. And and we're looking forward to that.

2784
02:43:56,560 --> 02:44:00,160
Speaker 2: And Donisa, how's the little David now? Is you are

2785
02:44:00,240 --> 02:44:01,160
Speaker 2: what happened at all?

2786
02:44:02,840 --> 02:44:03,200
Speaker 1: No, but.

2787
02:44:04,800 --> 02:44:08,000
Speaker 16: He's not aware of what happened. But he does not

2788
02:44:08,360 --> 02:44:11,840
Speaker 16: want to go to school anymore. David used to be excited,

2789
02:44:12,040 --> 02:44:15,160
Speaker 16: from my understanding, and what his mother cries about on

2790
02:44:15,280 --> 02:44:18,480
Speaker 16: a regular that he used to be excited about going

2791
02:44:18,520 --> 02:44:20,600
Speaker 16: to school, standing next to the door waiting for his

2792
02:44:20,720 --> 02:44:23,760
Speaker 16: bus to come. Now he cries, he doesn't want to

2793
02:44:23,800 --> 02:44:28,000
Speaker 16: go every since this happened. So that's isn't as much

2794
02:44:28,040 --> 02:44:31,360
Speaker 16: as I can tell you about his behavior since the incident.

2795
02:44:32,640 --> 02:44:34,160
Speaker 16: He no longer wants to go to school.

2796
02:44:35,480 --> 02:44:38,280
Speaker 2: So Toennement Leakal, what's going to be done about that?

2797
02:44:38,360 --> 02:44:40,720
Speaker 2: Because obviously he needs some counseling as well.

2798
02:44:44,040 --> 02:44:46,840
Speaker 3: He's undergoing that and will have to undergo that for

2799
02:44:47,200 --> 02:44:51,360
Speaker 3: a significant period of time. And and so we're working

2800
02:44:51,440 --> 02:44:55,879
Speaker 3: with him on a clinical level. We're working to get

2801
02:44:55,959 --> 02:44:59,480
Speaker 3: over then on a clinical level, it would obviously take

2802
02:44:59,560 --> 02:45:02,160
Speaker 3: some time. I'm an effort. And and you know, to

2803
02:45:02,320 --> 02:45:05,360
Speaker 3: all mothers out there who are dealing with with children

2804
02:45:05,440 --> 02:45:09,800
Speaker 3: who have special needs or disabilities, uh uh, we give

2805
02:45:09,840 --> 02:45:12,240
Speaker 3: its strong. We know that that's a that's an extra

2806
02:45:12,320 --> 02:45:15,600
Speaker 3: and a special love. And and so he's going to

2807
02:45:15,680 --> 02:45:18,960
Speaker 3: get all the help he needs on a clinical level.

2808
02:45:19,640 --> 02:45:23,880
Speaker 3: And and this family's gonna and and his mom is

2809
02:45:24,200 --> 02:45:27,360
Speaker 3: and little David's gonna be compensated. One day, he'll he'll

2810
02:45:27,440 --> 02:45:31,440
Speaker 3: look back and say that that that I was, that

2811
02:45:31,560 --> 02:45:34,480
Speaker 3: I was in a I was hurt, I was abused,

2812
02:45:34,560 --> 02:45:38,040
Speaker 3: but you know, I have something for my future and

2813
02:45:38,600 --> 02:45:40,560
Speaker 3: and so that's what we fight for, something for his

2814
02:45:40,680 --> 02:45:44,920
Speaker 3: future and trust for his future. And and right now

2815
02:45:45,600 --> 02:45:47,960
Speaker 3: he's getting all the clinical help that he needs, and

2816
02:45:48,000 --> 02:45:52,040
Speaker 3: he certainly has strong family support. Jrnessa Uh.

2817
02:45:53,800 --> 02:45:55,720
Speaker 16: I want to put a message out, if you have

2818
02:45:55,840 --> 02:46:02,400
Speaker 16: a child with disability, get your child attorney advocate. So

2819
02:46:02,600 --> 02:46:06,280
Speaker 16: now David has an advocate his mother. His mother did

2820
02:46:06,320 --> 02:46:09,280
Speaker 16: not have an advocate before, so I went online. I

2821
02:46:09,360 --> 02:46:13,080
Speaker 16: found him an advocate. And that advocate is wonderful. So

2822
02:46:13,560 --> 02:46:15,800
Speaker 16: if you have a child in any of any type

2823
02:46:15,840 --> 02:46:19,960
Speaker 16: of special needs dealing with school, that attorney advocate goes

2824
02:46:20,000 --> 02:46:22,080
Speaker 16: to the school with them, makes the meeting. They're now

2825
02:46:22,240 --> 02:46:25,680
Speaker 16: looking for another school that is suitable for Daved, because

2826
02:46:25,720 --> 02:46:29,680
Speaker 16: David should have never been in DCPs in a in

2827
02:46:29,760 --> 02:46:32,160
Speaker 16: a regular public school. He should have been in a

2828
02:46:32,360 --> 02:46:35,920
Speaker 16: school that caters to his autism and.

2829
02:46:36,320 --> 02:46:37,720
Speaker 9: Him being non verible.

2830
02:46:38,920 --> 02:46:43,360
Speaker 16: So an attorney advocated. I can't express that enough. You

2831
02:46:43,520 --> 02:46:46,720
Speaker 16: need attorney advocate's going to get that fight for the

2832
02:46:46,959 --> 02:46:48,240
Speaker 16: rights of your child.

2833
02:46:49,840 --> 02:46:54,360
Speaker 2: Away and donation. Let me ask you, as the teacher, say,

2834
02:46:54,440 --> 02:46:57,360
Speaker 2: to apologize to the family. Yet, aren't your davy for

2835
02:46:57,480 --> 02:46:57,959
Speaker 2: what she did?

2836
02:46:59,720 --> 02:46:59,760
Speaker 3: No?

2837
02:47:02,080 --> 02:47:08,840
Speaker 2: No, no word, wow, no word. That's that's unconsortable. At

2838
02:47:08,879 --> 02:47:12,280
Speaker 2: least you know a you know, a positive But I

2839
02:47:12,360 --> 02:47:16,600
Speaker 2: guess you figured that my impact whatever legal action Attorney

2840
02:47:16,640 --> 02:47:18,440
Speaker 2: Malik Shabaz would take her. How did you see that,

2841
02:47:18,840 --> 02:47:19,560
Speaker 2: Attorney Elik.

2842
02:47:20,840 --> 02:47:25,840
Speaker 3: Well, she's also has played, but sentencing where she would

2843
02:47:25,879 --> 02:47:29,880
Speaker 3: be allowed to give a statement have not come yet.

2844
02:47:30,200 --> 02:47:35,480
Speaker 3: And right now she's under a court mandate for probation

2845
02:47:36,040 --> 02:47:42,880
Speaker 3: for the next five months and a fifty community service

2846
02:47:43,000 --> 02:47:47,240
Speaker 3: hours and other mental health treatment. So I can't speak

2847
02:47:47,280 --> 02:47:50,720
Speaker 3: to her. I know she's been through a lot. I

2848
02:47:50,879 --> 02:47:55,000
Speaker 3: know she has to be shocked, because I don't believe

2849
02:47:55,160 --> 02:47:57,959
Speaker 3: that that when you're caught like that in a classroom

2850
02:47:58,120 --> 02:48:01,440
Speaker 3: doing that, that that was the first time. So I

2851
02:48:02,320 --> 02:48:06,600
Speaker 3: know that she's been substantially impacted by this, beyond well

2852
02:48:06,720 --> 02:48:11,320
Speaker 3: beyond what she ever thought what happened, and and and

2853
02:48:12,000 --> 02:48:13,600
Speaker 3: that's all I can say. I hope that she would

2854
02:48:13,640 --> 02:48:15,560
Speaker 3: learn the better life. I speak only for myself in

2855
02:48:15,640 --> 02:48:17,760
Speaker 3: this instance that I that I would hope that she

2856
02:48:18,000 --> 02:48:21,440
Speaker 3: learns this lesson and and and never does that again.

2857
02:48:22,640 --> 02:48:26,240
Speaker 2: Can you demand that she apologize? Though can you demand

2858
02:48:26,280 --> 02:48:28,760
Speaker 2: that she apologize to the family and to David, especially

2859
02:48:29,160 --> 02:48:30,840
Speaker 2: with the help in his rehabitation.

2860
02:48:31,320 --> 02:48:34,160
Speaker 3: I'm in the civil sense right now, it would only

2861
02:48:34,240 --> 02:48:38,000
Speaker 3: come right now, that would only come at the sentencing.

2862
02:48:38,160 --> 02:48:41,000
Speaker 3: Right now, she is she's played guilty to the to

2863
02:48:41,160 --> 02:48:51,640
Speaker 3: the facts of what happened, and I to a worded apologies. Uh,

2864
02:48:52,200 --> 02:48:54,360
Speaker 3: it may come in the civil case. I don't know

2865
02:48:54,520 --> 02:48:57,080
Speaker 3: if it will come in the criminal case. It will

2866
02:48:57,200 --> 02:49:00,760
Speaker 3: come in the criminal case. If she does not complete

2867
02:49:00,800 --> 02:49:03,920
Speaker 3: all these probation requirements. You will have to be there

2868
02:49:04,560 --> 02:49:07,440
Speaker 3: to try and to apologize them. So we'll see what happens.

2869
02:49:07,520 --> 02:49:10,520
Speaker 3: We'll see what happens. We'll see where Miss Davis's head is.

2870
02:49:12,600 --> 02:49:16,400
Speaker 2: Oh wow and done. So what's the next for a

2871
02:49:16,480 --> 02:49:18,680
Speaker 2: little for little David? He said, you gotta change it,

2872
02:49:18,959 --> 02:49:21,200
Speaker 2: go to another school. Would that be an issue though,

2873
02:49:21,200 --> 02:49:23,840
Speaker 2: because the stories all over the Washington DC media so

2874
02:49:24,320 --> 02:49:26,800
Speaker 2: national media as well. Do you think that might impact

2875
02:49:26,879 --> 02:49:28,240
Speaker 2: him picking another school.

2876
02:49:29,760 --> 02:49:32,280
Speaker 16: He has to go on into another school, David. That

2877
02:49:32,520 --> 02:49:38,000
Speaker 16: school is not equipped for little David. Now, little David,

2878
02:49:39,760 --> 02:49:43,520
Speaker 16: he can his mother has been going to different schools

2879
02:49:43,560 --> 02:49:46,560
Speaker 16: as the school advocate. I mean, I'm sorry, the attorney

2880
02:49:46,680 --> 02:49:50,600
Speaker 16: advocate has now been taken her on different schools to interview,

2881
02:49:50,720 --> 02:49:52,360
Speaker 16: to take a look at to see if that they're

2882
02:49:52,480 --> 02:49:56,480
Speaker 16: at adequate for David, which they do have special schools

2883
02:49:56,560 --> 02:50:00,600
Speaker 16: that deal with kids with suscial needs. And these attorneys advocates,

2884
02:50:00,640 --> 02:50:03,200
Speaker 16: I want to add our free of charge to you.

2885
02:50:03,879 --> 02:50:06,480
Speaker 16: So there should be no reason why if your child

2886
02:50:06,600 --> 02:50:09,439
Speaker 16: is in special ad that you don't have attorney advocate

2887
02:50:09,520 --> 02:50:11,240
Speaker 16: because the school system will have.

2888
02:50:11,360 --> 02:50:12,000
Speaker 9: To pay them.

2889
02:50:13,720 --> 02:50:15,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, and tell us a very quick because we

2890
02:50:15,879 --> 02:50:19,520
Speaker 2: come up on the break. How do if parents out

2891
02:50:19,560 --> 02:50:21,440
Speaker 2: there have a child with special leeds? How do they

2892
02:50:21,520 --> 02:50:24,400
Speaker 2: find these attorney advocacs? I don't want to say the

2893
02:50:24,480 --> 02:50:25,720
Speaker 2: yellow paces. It's on the internet.

2894
02:50:26,320 --> 02:50:26,920
Speaker 8: How do you find it?

2895
02:50:27,080 --> 02:50:31,520
Speaker 16: Well, yeah, just put in attorney advocate, especially the attorney

2896
02:50:31,600 --> 02:50:35,360
Speaker 16: advocate and not specifically. I'm righteous when it comes to

2897
02:50:35,440 --> 02:50:38,240
Speaker 16: black people. I really looked. I looked up attorneys with

2898
02:50:38,440 --> 02:50:41,040
Speaker 16: African American law firms and that's how I found the

2899
02:50:41,600 --> 02:50:44,000
Speaker 16: attorney advocate form. Just just type it in.

2900
02:50:45,280 --> 02:50:47,280
Speaker 2: Hey, we're with you on that listen. We got to

2901
02:50:47,280 --> 02:50:49,640
Speaker 2: take us a short preay. Well, we thank you Donasa

2902
02:50:49,680 --> 02:50:52,720
Speaker 2: for sharing that story about little David, and please through

2903
02:50:52,840 --> 02:50:55,680
Speaker 2: attorney Malik Shabaz, keep us informed how he's doing. Want

2904
02:50:55,680 --> 02:50:57,680
Speaker 2: to make sure he's okay. But this is just a

2905
02:50:57,760 --> 02:51:01,000
Speaker 2: blimp is growth. Thank you for sharing the story with

2906
02:51:01,120 --> 02:51:01,680
Speaker 2: us this morning.

2907
02:51:02,879 --> 02:51:04,680
Speaker 16: Thank you for having me all right.

2908
02:51:04,720 --> 02:51:06,240
Speaker 2: Family, we'll come up on a break when we come back.

2909
02:51:06,280 --> 02:51:08,080
Speaker 2: When I talk about the war and iron, I want

2910
02:51:08,120 --> 02:51:11,120
Speaker 2: to get to Melik Shabaz's analysis. What's going on and

2911
02:51:11,240 --> 02:51:13,240
Speaker 2: what it means for us and black people globally. What

2912
02:51:13,320 --> 02:51:14,600
Speaker 2: are your thoughts you want to get in on this

2913
02:51:14,720 --> 02:51:17,760
Speaker 2: conversation with Attorney Malik Shabaz, Reach out to us. I'll

2914
02:51:17,760 --> 02:51:20,119
Speaker 2: tell phone numbers simple, it's eight hundred four or five

2915
02:51:20,280 --> 02:51:23,400
Speaker 2: zero seventy eight seventy six, and we'll take your phone calls.

2916
02:51:23,640 --> 02:51:26,800
Speaker 2: Next and Grand rising in family in facts checking with

2917
02:51:26,959 --> 02:51:29,600
Speaker 2: us on this Thursday and morning here with Attorney Malik Shabbaz.

2918
02:51:29,640 --> 02:51:31,119
Speaker 2: Before we get back to them, let me just remind

2919
02:51:31,160 --> 02:51:33,560
Speaker 2: you tomorrow's Friday, of course you know that, and we'll

2920
02:51:33,600 --> 02:51:35,360
Speaker 2: give you another chance to free your mind and all

2921
02:51:35,400 --> 02:51:37,000
Speaker 2: that means is just a thing for yourself and join

2922
02:51:37,120 --> 02:51:39,680
Speaker 2: us for our uper Phone Friday program again promptly at

2923
02:51:39,720 --> 02:51:42,360
Speaker 2: six am Eastern time right here in Baltimore on ten

2924
02:51:42,480 --> 02:51:46,360
Speaker 2: ten WLB and also in the DMV on fourteen fifty WL.

2925
02:51:46,680 --> 02:51:49,280
Speaker 2: All right, Attorney Malik, you know, Donald Trump is saying

2926
02:51:49,280 --> 02:51:51,360
Speaker 2: that the world is now respecting us because of the

2927
02:51:51,440 --> 02:51:55,600
Speaker 2: attack on Iran. Some world leaders disagree, but you know,

2928
02:51:55,800 --> 02:51:57,840
Speaker 2: in Donald Trump's mind, he says, the world is now

2929
02:51:57,959 --> 02:52:00,440
Speaker 2: respecting America because of the force that we're on the

2930
02:52:00,440 --> 02:52:02,520
Speaker 2: assault and Iran. What are your thoughts?

2931
02:52:04,720 --> 02:52:07,040
Speaker 3: Quite the opposite, Quite the opposite. First of all, I

2932
02:52:07,160 --> 02:52:12,039
Speaker 3: will say that Black Lawyers for Justice U formally condemns

2933
02:52:12,800 --> 02:52:17,880
Speaker 3: Donald Trump's illegal war on on on Iran. I mean,

2934
02:52:18,000 --> 02:52:23,720
Speaker 3: it's it's it's illegal. Uh. The ISS is not supposed

2935
02:52:23,760 --> 02:52:26,320
Speaker 3: to go to war against a foreign nation unless they

2936
02:52:26,360 --> 02:52:30,720
Speaker 3: are under imminent threat, under the imminent threat of an

2937
02:52:30,800 --> 02:52:35,080
Speaker 3: attack against America or on American soil. And he is

2938
02:52:35,160 --> 02:52:40,920
Speaker 3: totally violated and desecrated that law by by jumping into

2939
02:52:41,440 --> 02:52:43,960
Speaker 3: a war against Iran at the at the at the

2940
02:52:44,080 --> 02:52:47,240
Speaker 3: behest of Israel. I mean, and so so the answer

2941
02:52:47,400 --> 02:52:51,920
Speaker 3: is no, No, the United States is not getting greater

2942
02:52:52,120 --> 02:52:56,600
Speaker 3: respect as a result of Donald Trump's actions. As in

2943
02:52:56,720 --> 02:53:00,720
Speaker 3: the case with most all of Donald Trump's action, including

2944
02:53:00,840 --> 02:53:05,199
Speaker 3: this illegal and vicious war, the United States is receiving

2945
02:53:05,480 --> 02:53:11,400
Speaker 3: less respect. Less respect, specifically in the military sense, because

2946
02:53:11,520 --> 02:53:16,560
Speaker 3: before the war was declared, of the threat of the war,

2947
02:53:17,000 --> 02:53:21,040
Speaker 3: the threat of a US attack on Iran using its

2948
02:53:21,160 --> 02:53:25,000
Speaker 3: overwhelming naval and air power and bases in the region,

2949
02:53:25,440 --> 02:53:32,080
Speaker 3: the threat of the war was stronger than their actual results.

2950
02:53:33,200 --> 02:53:36,200
Speaker 3: He said. Donald Trump said that the war would be

2951
02:53:36,280 --> 02:53:38,680
Speaker 3: over in a few hours at first, you know, he

2952
02:53:39,120 --> 02:53:42,640
Speaker 3: lies by he lies so much, but that it would

2953
02:53:42,680 --> 02:53:44,960
Speaker 3: be over in a few hours and a few days.

2954
02:53:45,080 --> 02:53:50,440
Speaker 3: And he believed that once they assassinated Just think about that.

2955
02:53:50,640 --> 02:53:54,120
Speaker 3: We're in a time now where United States government leaders

2956
02:53:54,160 --> 02:53:58,440
Speaker 3: are just outright assassinating leaders of other nations. So they

2957
02:53:58,520 --> 02:54:05,000
Speaker 3: assassinated Ai Tola Khamane, and Trump and Nitiayahu predicted that

2958
02:54:05,200 --> 02:54:12,240
Speaker 3: once Kamani was assassinated that everything would collapse and a

2959
02:54:12,480 --> 02:54:15,320
Speaker 3: new people would rise up and a new government would

2960
02:54:15,320 --> 02:54:18,040
Speaker 3: come into power. And all of that is wrong. So

2961
02:54:18,200 --> 02:54:23,000
Speaker 3: how could America be in a United States better position

2962
02:54:23,120 --> 02:54:26,360
Speaker 3: in the World's actually in a weaker position because they've

2963
02:54:26,360 --> 02:54:30,040
Speaker 3: shown that by shooting all of those using all of

2964
02:54:30,120 --> 02:54:33,040
Speaker 3: their best weapons. B one Bamba B two bamba B

2965
02:54:33,200 --> 02:54:37,680
Speaker 3: fifty two Bamber Tomahawk missiles. US S gerald Ford, this

2966
02:54:37,920 --> 02:54:43,520
Speaker 3: carrier here, the largest task strikeforce of simple sense of rocket. Well,

2967
02:54:43,560 --> 02:54:47,840
Speaker 3: this government in Iran was supposed to collapse like Saddam

2968
02:54:47,959 --> 02:54:52,800
Speaker 3: Hussein's government, or roll over like Maduro's government, and it

2969
02:54:53,040 --> 02:54:56,560
Speaker 3: just didn't happen. And even though Iran is not supported

2970
02:54:56,640 --> 02:55:00,840
Speaker 3: by a major power, not receiving active military assistance from

2971
02:55:01,000 --> 02:55:07,000
Speaker 3: China or Russia or anywhere, United States and Donald Trump

2972
02:55:07,120 --> 02:55:11,480
Speaker 3: have been unable to defeat the smaller government of Iran

2973
02:55:13,320 --> 02:55:15,680
Speaker 3: have not been able to defeat them. And so this

2974
02:55:15,840 --> 02:55:19,320
Speaker 3: is a new Vietnam for Donald Trump. And every day

2975
02:55:19,400 --> 02:55:21,360
Speaker 3: he's trying to find out how he can get out

2976
02:55:21,360 --> 02:55:25,360
Speaker 3: of it. Every day the world economy is is an

2977
02:55:25,520 --> 02:55:30,400
Speaker 3: uproar and collapsing and you and gas prices everywhere are

2978
02:55:30,440 --> 02:55:35,720
Speaker 3: shooting through the ceiling. And his poll numbers are dropping, dropping, dropping,

2979
02:55:35,840 --> 02:55:38,800
Speaker 3: not like they hot, they dropping through the floor. So

2980
02:55:38,920 --> 02:55:42,840
Speaker 3: he's gotten himself in a nightmare that probably will topple

2981
02:55:42,920 --> 02:55:46,680
Speaker 3: his presidency. I called Donald Trump the new Jimmy Carter

2982
02:55:47,560 --> 02:55:50,800
Speaker 3: and say that his involvement willie Iran will be just

2983
02:55:51,000 --> 02:55:55,160
Speaker 3: like Jimmy Carter's and that his presidency will be lost

2984
02:55:55,240 --> 02:55:58,560
Speaker 3: and his party's power will be lost. On the actions

2985
02:55:58,800 --> 02:56:02,280
Speaker 3: on the illegal actions of this disastrous.

2986
02:56:01,600 --> 02:56:05,080
Speaker 2: War on Iran, you know, fourteen away from the top

2987
02:56:05,120 --> 02:56:07,000
Speaker 2: of that's what's come out of this though, because you

2988
02:56:07,240 --> 02:56:10,160
Speaker 2: sort of implied it was Israel's influence in getting Donald

2989
02:56:10,160 --> 02:56:12,760
Speaker 2: Trump involved in this war, because this is what they

2990
02:56:12,879 --> 02:56:16,720
Speaker 2: want and they've been trying through different administrations that tried

2991
02:56:16,760 --> 02:56:20,080
Speaker 2: it with Obama, that tried it with Bush to get

2992
02:56:20,160 --> 02:56:24,120
Speaker 2: American troops to fight their war, and somehow the Trump

2993
02:56:24,200 --> 02:56:27,080
Speaker 2: has been bamboozan are doing this. But prior to all this,

2994
02:56:27,800 --> 02:56:31,280
Speaker 2: attorneym Elite, I never heard people criticize Israel because that

2995
02:56:31,400 --> 02:56:33,440
Speaker 2: was like the third rail in politics. You know that,

2996
02:56:33,600 --> 02:56:35,360
Speaker 2: we know what the Minister of arghand we know what

2997
02:56:35,440 --> 02:56:38,280
Speaker 2: Jesse Jackson said. They've never forgiven those But now you

2998
02:56:38,480 --> 02:56:42,360
Speaker 2: have you have conservative whites that coming out and attack

2999
02:56:42,400 --> 02:56:44,360
Speaker 2: in Israel saying this is not what we voted for.

3000
02:56:44,920 --> 02:56:48,160
Speaker 2: We're supposed to be America first, not Israel first. Are

3001
02:56:48,240 --> 02:56:49,240
Speaker 2: you seeing that as well?

3002
02:56:50,160 --> 02:56:53,120
Speaker 3: I see that, and that is that is a significant development,

3003
02:56:53,560 --> 02:56:55,600
Speaker 3: as you and I well know, over the course of

3004
02:56:55,640 --> 02:57:00,439
Speaker 3: the last thirty years to criticize Israel or Zionist behavior.

3005
02:57:01,160 --> 02:57:05,280
Speaker 3: Uh with the influence of Apak and the lobby and

3006
02:57:05,760 --> 02:57:09,080
Speaker 3: with the Zionist influence here that you couldn't hardly say anything,

3007
02:57:09,160 --> 02:57:14,959
Speaker 3: You couldn't even speak truth without meeting an avalanche of attacks.

3008
02:57:15,360 --> 02:57:19,320
Speaker 3: Things have changed. Things have changed because the actions of

3009
02:57:19,400 --> 02:57:22,680
Speaker 3: the State of Israel have become more and more easily

3010
02:57:22,879 --> 02:57:26,040
Speaker 3: condemned by anybody with common sense or who has a heart,

3011
02:57:26,480 --> 02:57:30,240
Speaker 3: who of anybody of any race out here, who who

3012
02:57:30,320 --> 02:57:33,760
Speaker 3: doesn't have a heart. When you see Palestinian babies and

3013
02:57:33,920 --> 02:57:38,480
Speaker 3: children and shelters being bombed by Israeli bombs and missiles,

3014
02:57:38,560 --> 02:57:42,680
Speaker 3: and just chin, so and so, what happened is times

3015
02:57:42,680 --> 02:57:46,720
Speaker 3: are changing. Now Here comes Donald Trump office and he

3016
02:57:47,000 --> 02:57:50,360
Speaker 3: promises that he's not going to engage in foreign wars.

3017
02:57:50,840 --> 02:57:56,440
Speaker 3: He comes in the office telling uh Zelenski is the

3018
02:57:56,600 --> 02:57:59,760
Speaker 3: leader of Ukraine, that you don't have a blank check

3019
02:58:00,240 --> 02:58:03,320
Speaker 3: getting these billions of dollars from the US government to

3020
02:58:03,400 --> 02:58:06,440
Speaker 3: fight your war, concede your territory. Because he comes to

3021
02:58:06,640 --> 02:58:09,680
Speaker 3: n wars. So how does he flip around now and

3022
02:58:09,800 --> 02:58:12,800
Speaker 3: he's asking for billions and he's spending two or three

3023
02:58:13,080 --> 02:58:19,040
Speaker 3: billion dollars every day fighting some war against Iran that

3024
02:58:19,200 --> 02:58:22,199
Speaker 3: has nothing to do with this of the United States.

3025
02:58:22,520 --> 02:58:26,400
Speaker 3: Matter of fact, it's hurting the United States. It's hurting

3026
02:58:26,480 --> 02:58:29,240
Speaker 3: the United States. So you're right, there are fissures, there

3027
02:58:29,280 --> 02:58:33,480
Speaker 3: are cracks the Republic, his base inside of Maga, saying

3028
02:58:33,600 --> 02:58:35,080
Speaker 3: we didn't sign up for this.

3029
02:58:35,400 --> 02:58:36,320
Speaker 4: What are you doing?

3030
02:58:36,720 --> 02:58:40,920
Speaker 3: They didn't sign up to fight Israel's wars, even though

3031
02:58:41,000 --> 02:58:44,000
Speaker 3: both of them have all financed and given Israel that

3032
02:58:44,120 --> 02:58:45,160
Speaker 3: means to wage war.

3033
02:58:46,160 --> 02:58:48,760
Speaker 12: So he's hit his head.

3034
02:58:49,640 --> 02:58:53,959
Speaker 3: Donald Trump is hitting his head. This is his waterloo,

3035
02:58:54,760 --> 02:58:59,400
Speaker 3: this is his Vietnam. And what they expected to happen

3036
02:58:59,480 --> 02:59:02,760
Speaker 3: didn't have. And what happened, What happened to the to

3037
02:59:02,879 --> 02:59:05,720
Speaker 3: the revolution inside of Iran where all of the people

3038
02:59:05,800 --> 02:59:09,600
Speaker 3: were supposed to rise up and to take power from

3039
02:59:09,640 --> 02:59:13,200
Speaker 3: the from the Islamic government, what happened to it? I

3040
02:59:13,280 --> 02:59:16,520
Speaker 3: think those people woke up once they saw America and

3041
02:59:16,720 --> 02:59:20,520
Speaker 3: is real bombing little babies and hospitals and in Tehran

3042
02:59:20,640 --> 02:59:24,280
Speaker 3: and bombing their country. I think they cognize that that

3043
02:59:24,400 --> 02:59:28,560
Speaker 3: their real problem is not in Tehran, but their problem

3044
02:59:28,680 --> 02:59:30,680
Speaker 3: is comes from Washington and Tel Aviv.

3045
02:59:31,959 --> 02:59:34,160
Speaker 2: So this is GREATRT, and hold I to right that

3046
02:59:34,200 --> 02:59:35,520
Speaker 2: because we've got a bunch of folks who want to

3047
02:59:35,560 --> 02:59:38,880
Speaker 2: talk to you on this side of the conversation ten

3048
02:59:38,959 --> 02:59:40,680
Speaker 2: away from the top of the I erasing the clock.

3049
02:59:40,920 --> 02:59:43,560
Speaker 2: It's going to line too. Brother Colis is calling for Waldorf.

3050
02:59:44,120 --> 02:59:46,240
Speaker 2: Brother Corlins, grind rising, You're off with the tourney, Malik

3051
02:59:46,280 --> 02:59:49,199
Speaker 2: Shabbais grand rising.

3052
02:59:49,160 --> 02:59:52,360
Speaker 15: Up real quick. My question is, and this this is

3053
02:59:53,160 --> 02:59:58,840
Speaker 15: something that is unheard of, but I think the Marion

3054
02:59:59,080 --> 03:00:06,200
Speaker 15: it'lson one hundred million dollars donation to Trump and other

3055
03:00:07,320 --> 03:00:15,280
Speaker 15: Jewish millionaires contributing has has greased his palm and greased

3056
03:00:15,320 --> 03:00:18,440
Speaker 15: a wheel for him to take this action. And I

3057
03:00:18,600 --> 03:00:22,360
Speaker 15: think evidence supports that. What do you think, my dear brother,

3058
03:00:22,520 --> 03:00:24,960
Speaker 15: of that particular concept.

3059
03:00:27,800 --> 03:00:30,360
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm sure that might have had

3060
03:00:30,360 --> 03:00:33,560
Speaker 3: an influence. I don't know if that's specific here, But

3061
03:00:33,720 --> 03:00:35,880
Speaker 3: I think as you have can I think you have

3062
03:00:37,320 --> 03:00:42,120
Speaker 3: converging influences. On one hand, Donald Trump himself sees himself

3063
03:00:42,200 --> 03:00:45,480
Speaker 3: as a as a make America great again. He's like

3064
03:00:46,120 --> 03:00:50,080
Speaker 3: a modern Teddy Roosevelt. And he sees himself as an

3065
03:00:50,320 --> 03:00:55,320
Speaker 3: American imperialist that, through the use of military intimidations and

3066
03:00:55,440 --> 03:00:59,720
Speaker 3: gunboat diplomacy, can get what he wants by either attacking

3067
03:00:59,879 --> 03:01:03,520
Speaker 3: or threatening to attack. He goes he wants to take Greenland,

3068
03:01:03,560 --> 03:01:06,080
Speaker 3: he threatened to attack it. He he so he sees

3069
03:01:06,240 --> 03:01:09,080
Speaker 3: himself as in the world and able to throw his

3070
03:01:09,200 --> 03:01:13,959
Speaker 3: weight around with military power. And so in that sense,

3071
03:01:14,000 --> 03:01:16,600
Speaker 3: he's doing this on his own. His makeup america great

3072
03:01:16,640 --> 03:01:20,320
Speaker 3: philosophy is made on him being showing that America is

3073
03:01:20,400 --> 03:01:22,280
Speaker 3: the king of the world and can tell anybody what

3074
03:01:22,360 --> 03:01:25,280
Speaker 3: they want to do because they have superior military and

3075
03:01:25,360 --> 03:01:30,240
Speaker 3: economic power. And therefore his philosophy is failing, and his

3076
03:01:30,480 --> 03:01:33,160
Speaker 3: presidency is failing in this hour, and he's going to

3077
03:01:33,200 --> 03:01:35,920
Speaker 3: pay a steep price at the mid terms. He's going

3078
03:01:36,000 --> 03:01:38,520
Speaker 3: to pay a steep price at the midterms.

3079
03:01:38,680 --> 03:01:42,000
Speaker 2: All right, eight five zero seventy eight seventy six. Sam's

3080
03:01:42,000 --> 03:01:44,160
Speaker 2: reaching out to us from Kansas. He's on line one

3081
03:01:44,560 --> 03:01:46,960
Speaker 2: Grand Rising Shamie. I'm going to attorney Belie Shabazz.

3082
03:01:49,000 --> 03:01:54,280
Speaker 6: Hey Gas, this is Sam. My question to you is

3083
03:01:54,959 --> 03:01:58,680
Speaker 6: I have a very serious case with the sheriff, violator

3084
03:01:58,720 --> 03:02:02,800
Speaker 6: all my constitutional rights, no warrants, know nothing. I'm currently

3085
03:02:02,920 --> 03:02:07,480
Speaker 6: sitting calling you from the county jail, literally surrounded by

3086
03:02:07,520 --> 03:02:09,720
Speaker 6: the Kokblus Plan. And I'm not joking when I say that.

3087
03:02:11,040 --> 03:02:13,480
Speaker 6: I mean the stuff that's going on out here is horrific,

3088
03:02:14,680 --> 03:02:18,200
Speaker 6: and I'm wondering if there's anything that you can do

3089
03:02:18,360 --> 03:02:21,879
Speaker 6: to help us out here, because I'm Puerto Rican descent

3090
03:02:22,520 --> 03:02:26,720
Speaker 6: and it's not just you know, the Puerto Rican descents.

3091
03:02:26,800 --> 03:02:28,840
Speaker 6: It's a lot of African Americans that are going through it.

3092
03:02:28,920 --> 03:02:31,800
Speaker 6: I mean, I said, I'm sitting in the county jail

3093
03:02:32,320 --> 03:02:32,879
Speaker 6: right now.

3094
03:02:33,720 --> 03:02:34,920
Speaker 4: Unlawfully.

3095
03:02:37,000 --> 03:02:40,480
Speaker 3: Do here in this case is I can review your situation.

3096
03:02:40,959 --> 03:02:42,880
Speaker 3: I don't know what promises I can make, but I

3097
03:02:42,959 --> 03:02:47,560
Speaker 3: certainly can review if you can text my evidence line

3098
03:02:48,080 --> 03:02:53,640
Speaker 3: four oh stix eight eight seven three five two four

3099
03:02:54,120 --> 03:02:59,000
Speaker 3: six eight eight zero seven three five and my email

3100
03:02:59,240 --> 03:03:04,280
Speaker 3: is attorney Attorney dot Shabbaz s h A b A's

3101
03:03:04,320 --> 03:03:08,920
Speaker 3: easy at yahoo dot com. I wanna you'll tell me

3102
03:03:09,080 --> 03:03:12,000
Speaker 3: more about why you say what you say about your

3103
03:03:12,120 --> 03:03:14,720
Speaker 3: constitutional rights and I'll review it for you.

3104
03:03:14,840 --> 03:03:15,040
Speaker 12: Brother.

3105
03:03:15,560 --> 03:03:18,680
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, thanks Aden.

3106
03:03:18,959 --> 03:03:22,240
Speaker 6: So my question are you are you willing to step in?

3107
03:03:22,760 --> 03:03:24,840
Speaker 6: I mean, like I said, this is serious. This is

3108
03:03:24,920 --> 03:03:25,680
Speaker 6: the quick plan.

3109
03:03:25,760 --> 03:03:27,480
Speaker 2: I'm not joking when I think that, right, we got

3110
03:03:27,600 --> 03:03:30,040
Speaker 2: it time, we racing the clock and he god information.

3111
03:03:30,480 --> 03:03:33,080
Speaker 3: I'll review it and I respect it, respect what you're saying,

3112
03:03:33,120 --> 03:03:34,280
Speaker 3: and I will review it for.

3113
03:03:34,360 --> 03:03:36,840
Speaker 2: You all right, thanks Sam eight hundred and four or

3114
03:03:36,879 --> 03:03:39,800
Speaker 2: five zero seventy eight seventy six. Let's go to Richmond

3115
03:03:40,200 --> 03:03:43,040
Speaker 2: uh Islamak and my brother Halen has a question for

3116
03:03:43,200 --> 03:03:43,880
Speaker 2: is on line three?

3117
03:03:44,480 --> 03:03:49,600
Speaker 4: Brother Halen, Well, yeah, sir, my question is Moster Maduro

3118
03:03:49,800 --> 03:03:52,400
Speaker 4: in New York is.

3119
03:03:53,879 --> 03:03:57,800
Speaker 17: Being faced just about the government that can brother step

3120
03:03:57,879 --> 03:03:59,640
Speaker 17: in and look into that.

3121
03:04:00,080 --> 03:04:01,879
Speaker 4: Well, it's part of the struggle.

3122
03:04:01,520 --> 03:04:05,560
Speaker 17: With blacks in America. And I want to say about

3123
03:04:05,600 --> 03:04:08,680
Speaker 17: Donald Trump if they're going down in the Red Sea,

3124
03:04:10,320 --> 03:04:13,480
Speaker 17: Donald Trump is the greatest thing that could happen to

3125
03:04:13,560 --> 03:04:17,840
Speaker 17: a weekend black people since Javehover. This is to let

3126
03:04:17,920 --> 03:04:22,240
Speaker 17: you know that they don't plan to do better by us,

3127
03:04:23,000 --> 03:04:26,160
Speaker 17: but they use us. The simply want to use us

3128
03:04:26,240 --> 03:04:27,039
Speaker 17: in the time of war.

3129
03:04:28,240 --> 03:04:29,640
Speaker 7: But they're going to be defeated.

3130
03:04:29,720 --> 03:04:31,040
Speaker 17: America cannot win us.

3131
03:04:32,000 --> 03:04:34,520
Speaker 2: All right, Brother Helen, biration the class. I want to

3132
03:04:34,520 --> 03:04:37,240
Speaker 2: give Attorney Malika Shabaz a chance to respond about Madurea

3133
03:04:37,240 --> 03:04:40,120
Speaker 2: because Madua's going to court this morning. So thank you

3134
03:04:40,200 --> 03:04:41,440
Speaker 2: for your call a counselor.

3135
03:04:41,640 --> 03:04:44,560
Speaker 3: They've almost they've almost thank you for your comment. They've

3136
03:04:44,600 --> 03:04:51,440
Speaker 3: almost eliminated President Maduro's case from the headlines. We don't

3137
03:04:51,480 --> 03:04:55,920
Speaker 3: read about it much anymore. I think she has the

3138
03:04:56,120 --> 03:04:59,600
Speaker 3: counsel that he needs for his case. He's guts, the

3139
03:04:59,640 --> 03:05:01,800
Speaker 3: the lord hears he needs for his case. And we're

3140
03:05:01,879 --> 03:05:06,840
Speaker 3: watching it, watching it carefully. And uh and and I

3141
03:05:07,000 --> 03:05:09,800
Speaker 3: know in my gut from what I read of his

3142
03:05:09,959 --> 03:05:13,680
Speaker 3: case is it's it's a conjured up case. It's not

3143
03:05:13,800 --> 03:05:16,960
Speaker 3: a good case. But we'll see what happens. But that

3144
03:05:17,160 --> 03:05:20,120
Speaker 3: that's outrageous that he's even on trial here. He's even

3145
03:05:20,160 --> 03:05:22,119
Speaker 3: on trial here's completely outrageous.

3146
03:05:23,120 --> 03:05:26,720
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, all right, thank you, brother. Listen, we got

3147
03:05:26,840 --> 03:05:29,880
Speaker 2: to run counselor if folks want to get reach you,

3148
03:05:29,959 --> 03:05:31,920
Speaker 2: how can they reach you? They get more information about

3149
03:05:31,959 --> 03:05:33,560
Speaker 2: the some of the cases you're working on. If they

3150
03:05:33,600 --> 03:05:35,840
Speaker 2: want to get you involved in their case, how can

3151
03:05:35,879 --> 03:05:36,320
Speaker 2: they reach you?

3152
03:05:37,000 --> 03:05:39,040
Speaker 3: They can? It's best best to text and then we

3153
03:05:39,200 --> 03:05:42,560
Speaker 3: give you my office numbers. My staff is very has

3154
03:05:42,600 --> 03:05:46,480
Speaker 3: their handsful, So you text it two four oh six

3155
03:05:46,680 --> 03:05:50,520
Speaker 3: eight eight zero seven three five. If you want to

3156
03:05:50,560 --> 03:05:54,320
Speaker 3: support the cases that you've heard today, that's Marcus Taylor.

3157
03:05:54,480 --> 03:05:59,560
Speaker 3: That's Malik Carter Justice for Malik Carter Justice from Marcus Taylor.

3158
03:06:00,000 --> 03:06:03,320
Speaker 3: That's just for little David. And to look at your

3159
03:06:03,440 --> 03:06:06,760
Speaker 3: case if you have it, and civil rights, and we

3160
03:06:06,920 --> 03:06:10,119
Speaker 3: do injuries also, and we're right in the Washington area.

3161
03:06:10,440 --> 03:06:12,959
Speaker 3: We thank you, Carl Nelson Shall for having number one

3162
03:06:13,040 --> 03:06:15,440
Speaker 3: show standing up for our people, standing up for truth.

3163
03:06:15,800 --> 03:06:17,320
Speaker 3: Thank you for having us all God.

3164
03:06:17,240 --> 03:06:20,240
Speaker 2: Bless you all right, same things a councilor. And thank

3165
03:06:20,280 --> 03:06:22,040
Speaker 2: you for taking these cases man, because a lot of

3166
03:06:22,040 --> 03:06:24,160
Speaker 2: these lawyers won't take cases like that. So thank you

3167
03:06:24,200 --> 03:06:26,240
Speaker 2: for sending the bar high for the rest of the

3168
03:06:26,240 --> 03:06:28,240
Speaker 2: folks who getting into the legal business. Thank you for

3169
03:06:28,560 --> 03:06:30,760
Speaker 2: sharing all the cases you shared with us this morning.

3170
03:06:31,240 --> 03:06:34,560
Speaker 2: All right, family, that's it. We serve and do our alrighty,

3171
03:06:34,680 --> 03:06:37,560
Speaker 2: that's it for the class for the day. Family, classes

3172
03:06:37,600 --> 03:06:40,680
Speaker 2: dismissed it. Stay strong, stay positive, please stay healthy. We'll

3173
03:06:40,680 --> 03:06:43,199
Speaker 2: see you tomorrow morning, six o'clock right here in Baltimore

3174
03:06:43,320 --> 03:06:46,120
Speaker 2: on ten ten WLB and also in the DMV on

3175
03:06:46,240 --> 03:06:48,359
Speaker 2: fourteen fifty WOL