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Speaker 1: Good morning.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Casey and Jim. It is ninety three WIBC.

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Speaker 2: And to get a look at what is going on

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Speaker 2: in the great state of Indiana, we go to the

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Speaker 2: best Nicki Kelly from Indiana Capitol Chronicle.

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Speaker 1: Hey, good morning, Nikki.

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Speaker 2: How are you today?

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Speaker 3: I'm good? How are you too?

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Speaker 2: We are doing good. We're getting ready for a long weekend.

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Speaker 2: We're going to head out of town. You know, we

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Speaker 2: like to get away from politics every now and then.

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Speaker 2: So you know where we're going, Oh, no, where, Washington, DC.

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Speaker 1: That's what we do.

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Speaker 2: We head to the East coast to the Capitol. We've

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Speaker 2: got to keep an eye on those people, you know.

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Speaker 3: They need it.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about what's going on with the college programs

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Speaker 2: that are being eliminated. Hundreds of college programs here in

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Speaker 2: Indiana being eliminated.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So basically, they've done this exhaustive review of what

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Speaker 3: they call low enrollment degree programs that have very limited

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Speaker 3: students in them over a three year rolling cycle, and

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Speaker 3: yesterday they eliminated I think two hundred and ten of them.

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Speaker 3: There are others that will be monitored or you know,

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Speaker 3: there are some that are still new, so they're letting

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Speaker 3: them kind of build up there enrollments, but for the

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Speaker 3: ones that just don't have very many students, those are

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Speaker 3: going to the wayside.

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Speaker 2: Did any of the university leaders express any concern that

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Speaker 2: it would disproportionally hurt humanities or arts or fields like that.

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Speaker 3: No, it seemed pretty collaborative. They had lots of statements

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Speaker 3: from all the universities saying, yep, we're on board with this.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they really didn't have a choice. The legislator

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Speaker 3: told legislature told them what to do, and to be fair.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think I initially was like, WHOA, that's

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Speaker 3: a lot, but you know, I think they said the

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Speaker 3: ones that are being eliminated I think served only four

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Speaker 3: percent of the students last year, so you know, most

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Speaker 3: many of them had no enrollment period.

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Speaker 4: And so this was a kind of a big and

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Speaker 4: important bill this year. I remember during last year's General

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Speaker 4: Assembly there was a lot of dust up because the

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Speaker 4: governor can now appoint certain trustees.

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Speaker 1: To the IU board. Are you seeing and you've been in.

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Speaker 4: State House a long time, I'm getting the sense that

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Speaker 4: it seems like the legislators and the governor are taking

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Speaker 4: a more direct interest in our universities than they historically have.

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Speaker 1: Is that something that you're seeing as well?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, Okay, here far more now about curriculum and governance

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Speaker 3: than they used to. You know, they've gotten involved in

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Speaker 3: tenure and you know, different things like that viewpoint discrimination

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Speaker 3: and so yeah, this is just another example of that.

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Speaker 4: And is this just a sense of like, hey, the

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Speaker 4: state has given you guys millions and millions of dollars

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Speaker 4: to run these universities. We're going to have a say

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Speaker 4: in how you operate. Is that kind of the feeling

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Speaker 4: or the sense you get?

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Speaker 3: Yep, exactly, And you know they're they're definitely pushing that forward.

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Speaker 3: And the second part of you know, this bill was

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Speaker 3: from twenty twenty five that limited these but now there's

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Speaker 3: going to be a second review of Now we're going

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Speaker 3: to look at degrees that sort of like when you

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Speaker 3: go out and you graduate, if you can't make at

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Speaker 3: least the amount of money that a person who doesn't

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Speaker 3: who graduates but basically with just a high school degree

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Speaker 3: would make, then those are going to be on the

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Speaker 3: shopping block.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting, there's more coming likely.

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Speaker 2: God, yeah, are any of the programs on the eliminationless surprising?

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Speaker 2: Because they don't align with future growth industries.

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Speaker 3: You know, I mean we look through first of all,

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Speaker 3: there are hundreds of them, so it's kind of hard

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Speaker 3: to We just got it, you know, yesterday afternoon we

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Speaker 3: looked through and said, no, I mean, there weren't massive ones.

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Speaker 3: There do seem to be a lot on regional campuses,

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Speaker 3: which I found interesting. You know, obviously a regional campus

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Speaker 3: is going to have smaller enrollment, and you do want

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Speaker 3: to make sure that these regional campuses we have, they're

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Speaker 3: in Port Wayne or Indy or you know elsewhere, are

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Speaker 3: still able to you know, offer up some good programs

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Speaker 3: that students want, even if it's only you know, a

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Speaker 3: smaller number of students.

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Speaker 2: Is it your opinion that this is more about budget

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Speaker 2: efficiency versus an Aisle ideological shift.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say on this one that is true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what about the students that are already in these programs,

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Speaker 2: what's going to happen with them?

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Speaker 3: That's a great point. Every student who's currently in a

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Speaker 3: program will get the opportunity to finish. It's called a

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Speaker 3: teach out, and that's required, and so no one like

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Speaker 3: next year, they're not pulling them all. They can't enroll

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Speaker 3: new students, and so you know, it'll be a couple

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Speaker 3: of year phase out so that every student who currently

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Speaker 3: is majoring in those programs gets to finish their degree.

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Speaker 2: Nikki Kelly from Indiana Capitol Chronicle is joining us. All right,

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Speaker 2: let's switch gears and talk about the endorsement from Todd Rokita,

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Speaker 2: the Attorney General. Who is he backing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he backed a challenger, Craig Haggard for the congressional

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Speaker 3: district for which is his own old seat that he's

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Speaker 3: served in for eight years. And so I think it did.

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Speaker 3: You know, a lot of endorsements are just kind of home,

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Speaker 3: they're expected, but that one got surmised eyebrows because, you know,

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Speaker 3: endorsing against, you know, the cittying incumbent who has the

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Speaker 3: president's endorsement was an interesting move.

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Speaker 2: And that's not the first time roket has also endorsed

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Speaker 2: somebody against who Donald Trump has endorsed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we have the Liz Brown Darren vote race up

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Speaker 3: in the Fort Wayne Senate District fifteen too, So he's

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Speaker 3: come out a few times for people that, you know,

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Speaker 3: go against the President's endorsement.

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Speaker 2: So what do you think that tells us about the

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Speaker 2: balance of power inside Indiana's Republican Party. Right now, roket

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Speaker 2: is going rogue.

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Speaker 3: I mean, well, she's always been a little rogue, right,

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Speaker 3: and I think as the Maga faction of the Republican

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Speaker 3: Party has grown, he has shifted to that side. You know, Previously,

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Speaker 3: when he was you know, earlier in his career, I

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Speaker 3: think he would have been considered very establishments and so

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Speaker 3: we're definitely seeing that fracture between you know, old school

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Speaker 3: Indiana establishment Republicans and the so called magat Trump Republicans.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's actually been a lot of dust up on

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Speaker 4: social media about this, about the fact that Trump has

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Speaker 4: endorsed certain people and then Todd, Rokeita and even Jim

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Speaker 4: Banks have endorsed the other person in that. Have either

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Speaker 4: Banks or Roketa spoken about this because or are we making.

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Speaker 1: A bigger deal about this than what it actually is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I haven't seen any comments from them on those

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Speaker 3: specific endorsements. I mean, other than Todd saying why he

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Speaker 3: thinks Craig Hackard is the man to support him that race,

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Speaker 3: and he didn't say anything negative about the income. But

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Speaker 3: you know too, he don't say anything positive either. True.

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Speaker 2: How much of this race do you think is going

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Speaker 2: to hinge on the national conservative conversation versus district specific

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Speaker 2: concerns like ag and veterans and local economic development.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the fact is that Jim bar and Craig

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Speaker 3: Haggard have a lot of the same philosophies, right, So

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Speaker 3: it's really hard to unseat an incumbent congressman. So I

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Speaker 3: don't expect that to happen, even with a Tabriketa endorsement.

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Speaker 3: But you know, like I said, minus a scandal, it's

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Speaker 3: just near impossible.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's not like Craig Haggard is an unknown name,

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Speaker 2: though he's coming into that with already a little bit

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Speaker 2: of name recognition.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that is the current state reps?

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Speaker 1: So yeah, right.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that Baird's recent accident and recovery became

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Speaker 2: part of the political conversation, even indirectly about readiness or continuity?

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Speaker 3: I don't think so, because Haggard, you know, two years ago,

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Speaker 3: Haggard was going to run but dropped out at the

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Speaker 3: last minute when Baard decided to run again. So he

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Speaker 3: has shown an interest in that seat for quite a while,

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Speaker 3: and I think this time came around and he basically

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Speaker 3: just said, okay, I'm not going to wait anymore. Like

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Speaker 3: you know, been there a long time. There has been

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Speaker 3: a lot of rumors about him not moving forward and

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Speaker 3: instead to push his son, Represented bou Bairt, to run

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Speaker 3: in that seat. And so I think Craig Haggard just

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Speaker 3: decided it's my journ and I'm going to move forward.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the time.

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Speaker 4: Hey, Nikki, You've been around the State House for so long,

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Speaker 4: So I always like to kind of get your historical

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Speaker 4: perspective on this, because my perspective seems like this is

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Speaker 4: one of the most interesting and unpredictable primaries that we've

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Speaker 4: seen in a long time, especially on the Republican side,

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Speaker 4: although there's a little bit on the Democrat side with

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Speaker 4: Bobai and his race and Destiny Wells challenging Andre Carson.

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Speaker 4: Do you see this from a historical perspective as being

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Speaker 4: a much more interesting primary than historically what we've seen.

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Speaker 3: I would say if you took out the Senate Republican

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Speaker 3: races that are the redistricting what I'm calling the redistricting races.

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Speaker 3: Otherwise without that it would be very normal, got it,

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Speaker 3: But to see so many primaries against incumbents, and not

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Speaker 3: just incumbents but long time Republicans. I mean, the idea

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Speaker 3: that some of these conservatives are being called rhinos is

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Speaker 3: pretty funny to me, you know, when you're in the

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Speaker 3: building every day. I watch their votes every day. It's

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Speaker 3: pretty shocking that some of the people they're calling rhinos.

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Speaker 2: Niki Kelly from Indiana Capitol Chronicle is on with us.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about the study about the casino, and the

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Speaker 2: study says that it would draw big crowds from out

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Speaker 2: of the state and not take money away from current

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Speaker 2: casinos within this state.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think the interesting part of that

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Speaker 3: Steuben County is trying to position themselves as good if

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Speaker 3: their referendum goes through, and I think it is a

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Speaker 3: positive for at least the Gaming Commission to consider when

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Speaker 3: they make the ultimate decision, that the money would come

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Speaker 3: from out of state residents more at that location than

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Speaker 3: down in Fort Wayne or you know, into calb So

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Speaker 3: because so many people would be coming from Ohio and

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Speaker 3: Michigan instead of just you know, draining Hoosier pocketbook.

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Speaker 2: Did your reporting uncover whether this referendum debate is really

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Speaker 2: about economic development or more about competition among counties for

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Speaker 2: state backed investment.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, there are all three of those counties

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Speaker 3: want that economic development that is going to come with

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Speaker 3: the five hundred million dollar investments, you know, which is

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Speaker 3: the required investment for whichever person or entity gets the license,

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Speaker 3: And so they're just trying to put their best foot forward,

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Speaker 3: you know. But I do think it still remains to

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Speaker 3: be seen whether I think the general consistencies fort Way

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Speaker 3: makes the most sense. It has higher traffic as a

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Speaker 3: very you know, good convention business, tourism, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: But that's the county that I think is the most

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Speaker 3: up in the air about whether they can actually pass

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Speaker 3: the referendum.

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Speaker 4: Nikki, there was a pretty big contingent of people that

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Speaker 4: really wanted to see a casino in downtown Indianapolis. Obviously

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Speaker 4: the lawmakers went with Northeast Indiana instead. Are we pretty

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Speaker 4: much done with new casino licenses for a little bit,

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Speaker 4: or is there a possibility in the near future that

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Speaker 4: they could look at adding another one in that group

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Speaker 4: that wants it in downtown Indy may be able to

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Speaker 4: end up getting what they're looking at.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this will probably settle it for a bit.

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Speaker 3: I Mean, the problem with Indianapolis is, yes, it could

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Speaker 3: make a ton of money, but it would it would

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Speaker 3: really hurt the business of the two casinos at the

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Speaker 3: horse Track in Shelby, Billan Anderson, and so you know,

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Speaker 3: you do have to think of that as a whole.

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Speaker 3: You know, if you're adding one there, then you're taking

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Speaker 3: away from existing you know, casinos. And that's why the

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Speaker 3: Northeast India corner, I think by lawmakers was seen as

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Speaker 3: a as a better fit because it could cannibalize from

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Speaker 3: other states and not other existing Indiana operations.

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Speaker 2: Nikki, last question you mentioned it, could you know, take

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Speaker 2: money from other states if the casino strong strongest selling

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Speaker 2: point is exporting gambling costs you know, from Michigan Ohio

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Speaker 2: residents or their money actually not costs, but their revenue.

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Speaker 2: What happens if those states respond with competing developments of

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Speaker 2: their own. Has anybody mentioned that?

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Speaker 3: I mean Michigan, and I think there's one right across

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Speaker 3: the Ohio line in that area, so they've already been adding.

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Speaker 2: Them pretty there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's a casino, there's a tribal casino that's

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Speaker 3: pretty close up there. That's one of the Michigan ones.

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Speaker 2: So all right, Nikki Kelly, you can find her at

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Speaker 2: Indiana Capitol Chronicle dot com. Thanks for being here.

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Speaker 3: Thanks guys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a great weekend and happy Easter. You're

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Speaker 2: listening to ninety three WIBC