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Speaker 1: Line from ball Hartbier and the Crossroads of America. It's

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Speaker 1: Tony Katz today.

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Speaker 2: It's very weird to see people in America wanting America

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Speaker 2: to fail.

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Speaker 1: But there's a lot of this.

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Speaker 2: There's a ridiculous amount of this, a complete willingness to

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Speaker 2: manufacture what's happening on the ground in Iran, a complete

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Speaker 2: willingness to make the claim that we are behind the

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Speaker 2: eight ball, that we failed here, that somehow we don't

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Speaker 2: have an exit plant, even though we may not have

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Speaker 2: everything written down on.

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Speaker 1: Paper, that it's not satisfactory to them.

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Speaker 2: So therefore this is total bungling and everything's Vietnam all

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Speaker 2: over again. It's kind of remarkable to watch people make

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Speaker 2: these moves. And it's not just on the left, it's

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Speaker 2: on the woke right as well. And when you see

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Speaker 2: pieces from Al Jazeera saying, you know, the Iranians are

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Speaker 2: really getting destroyed here.

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Speaker 1: What exactly are we looking at? What has happened lately?

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Speaker 1: And how is this war one?

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Speaker 2: Tony Kaks Tony Katz today, Good to be here, Good

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Speaker 2: to be with you. Chuck Devor joins us right now

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Speaker 2: from the Texas Public Policy Foundation, where he does a

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Speaker 2: great number of things. He's the Chief National Initiative's officer.

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Speaker 2: He was there in the Reagan era. Pentagon served in

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Speaker 2: the US military, rising to the rank of lieutenant colonel,

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Speaker 2: And Sir, you do a lot. You've been talking a

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Speaker 2: lot about this with the good people over there at

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Speaker 2: Fox News. Let's start with where we're at in this

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Speaker 2: military campaign, a little more than two weeks into this.

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Speaker 2: What exists or doesn't exist from the Iranian military? And

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Speaker 2: how do you categorize, as a guy who has seen

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Speaker 2: this happen before, how do you categorize how the US

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Speaker 2: military has maneuvered here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let's start with the last question first. I'd

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Speaker 3: have to say it's just been superb. I mean, it's

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Speaker 3: unbelievable how well the US military, with their Israeli allies,

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Speaker 3: have functioned, keeping mistakes to a minimum, being ahead of

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Speaker 3: the time schedule, and really achieving some significant strategic effects.

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Speaker 3: So let's talk about those effects. You know, one of

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Speaker 3: the big worries as we started this war was Iran's

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Speaker 3: ballistic missile capability and their drone capability, and what you

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Speaker 3: see are two things. It's like a virtuous cycle. What's

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Speaker 3: happening is is that the US mostly the US and

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Speaker 3: with some help from our Israeli allies, have been destroying

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Speaker 3: the mobile missile launchers as well as the drone launching

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Speaker 3: facilities or vehicles, storage sites, manufacturing centers, and so what

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Speaker 3: you've seen is the drone and missile fire both have

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Speaker 3: significantly decreased from just a little over two weeks ago,

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Speaker 3: over ninety percent. But there's another side of that equation,

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Speaker 3: which is the effectiveness of the interceptors not only aboard

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Speaker 3: US vessels but also in Israel and with our golf

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Speaker 3: Arab allies. And you're seeing the effectiveness of the interceptions

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Speaker 3: of the missiles and the drones go from you know,

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Speaker 3: in the high to mid eighties, low nineties, depending on

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Speaker 3: the system, to today we're consistently knocking down the drones

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Speaker 3: and missiles at a rate of ninety five to ninety

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Speaker 3: eight percent. Now, some of that is because there's a

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Speaker 3: slackening of fire from Iran, and some of that is

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Speaker 3: because we're getting better in the Israelis, the US, and

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Speaker 3: the golf Arab allies are all getting really good at this,

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Speaker 3: including lastly Tony some very interesting information that we're getting

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Speaker 3: out of the golf Arab states where they're taking US

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Speaker 3: apache helicopters that we sold them, and they're using the

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Speaker 3: chain guns on those helicopters to shoot down the sh

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Speaker 3: Had drones. And so finally we have a low cost

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Speaker 3: solution to shooting down these very cheap and plentifbule drones,

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Speaker 3: which is just simply a fire from a helicopter.

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Speaker 2: Now, the idea of something being low tech doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: that it's bad tech, and really the drone conversation that

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Speaker 2: a conversation of cost effectiveness. But the success that we're having,

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Speaker 2: you know, we've taken out the Solemoni class destroyers I

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Speaker 2: believe it is from the Iranians. There was the sinking

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Speaker 2: of another ship from a US sub which may have

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Speaker 2: been one of the Solomoni class. Talk to me about

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Speaker 2: what has actually been degraded, if not eliminated, by US

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Speaker 2: and Israeli forces thus far.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So, again, the importance of this cannot be overstated,

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Speaker 3: which is that the entire Iranian navy is now combat

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Speaker 3: and effective. It's either at the bottom of the sea

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Speaker 3: or it's so damaged that it can't do anything. And

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Speaker 3: let me just say that there has not been one

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Speaker 3: confirmed hit by a sea mine in all of the

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Speaker 3: days of combat that we've had. There were some drones

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Speaker 3: and some unknown attacks on the you know, the upper

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Speaker 3: side of a ship, but no sea mines, and that

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Speaker 3: was something that everyone was terribly fearful of. And of

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Speaker 3: course we've destroyed, uh, the vessels that would disperse those mines.

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Speaker 3: So that's number one. Number two the air defense systems,

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Speaker 3: and that isn't just the missile launchers, but of course

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Speaker 3: it's the radar and even more importantly, the communications nodes

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Speaker 3: that stitch it together as a system, so that is

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Speaker 3: completely gone. Number three, the command and control capability of

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Speaker 3: the I r GC. That's the you know, the rough

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Speaker 3: equivalent to the Nazi s s in Iran, the besiege

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Speaker 3: militia UH, these terrible you know young you know, kind

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Speaker 3: of almost thinking like Lord of the Flies or Hitler

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Speaker 3: youth or something like that. So the leadership and the

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Speaker 3: command and control for the besiege militia UH, and of

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Speaker 3: course other traditional regime command and control, including of course

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Speaker 3: regime figures, right individuals who are the leaders of this

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Speaker 3: Iranian revolutionary kind of thuggish, corrupt dictatorship. And lastly, the

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Speaker 3: missile manufacturing and drone manufacturing facilities as well the latter,

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Speaker 3: of course very important for Putin and Russia to help

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Speaker 3: their war against Ukraine because a significant number of the

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Speaker 3: drones being used against Ukraine where these Shahid drones from Iran,

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Speaker 3: and so their ability to manufacture those as well has

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Speaker 3: been largely degraded. And so lastly, what you're left with

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Speaker 3: is you do have large numbers of individuals who are

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Speaker 3: supposedly still under arms for the regime, but they've been decentralized.

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Speaker 3: The Iranian government decentralized the command and control as a

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Speaker 3: defensive measure. So it's hard to tell at this point

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Speaker 3: just how much control they have on the country and

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Speaker 3: whether or not the long suffering Iranian people, if they

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Speaker 3: rose up, might see some measure of success in certain regions.

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Speaker 2: Talking to Chuck Devoor the Texas Public Policy Foundation and

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Speaker 2: writes extensively on these subjects, And you know, the taking

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Speaker 2: out of the IRGC, as we've discussed here, is everything.

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Speaker 2: You can't have the people making their moves take their

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Speaker 2: country back until the Islamic Revolutionary guardcore is destroyed. And

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Speaker 2: one of the ways they're destroyed is by hand to

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Speaker 2: hand combat, literally boots on the ground conversations. The other

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Speaker 2: way they're destroyed is by taking away the funding that

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Speaker 2: gives them the power to be there. That happens by

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Speaker 2: disrupting the oil flows and putting an end to hard currency.

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Speaker 2: This brings us to the conversation of Carg Island. Kharg.

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Speaker 2: We saw the bombing raids that took place last week,

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Speaker 2: taking out military assets, but leaving the oil intact. Ninety

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Speaker 2: percent of Iranian oil goes to Carg Island, and that's

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Speaker 2: how they're able to get their dollars. We now hear

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Speaker 2: about the USS Tripoli, which is an amphibious assault ship

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Speaker 2: heading its way to Carg Island there in the Persian

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Speaker 2: Gulf with twenty five hundred marines to.

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Speaker 1: Take the island. I make the argument that that's very, very.

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Speaker 2: Weird to telegraph that you're sending a ship it's going

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Speaker 2: to take two weeks ten days to get there. Talk

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Speaker 2: to me about Carg Island, the mission that was successful

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Speaker 2: in taking out if you think it's successful in taking

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Speaker 2: out any military installations on the island, and can the

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Speaker 2: capture of this island the ending of oil flows. Can

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Speaker 2: this end the IRGC?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So let's go back a few days. You may

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Speaker 3: recall that there was a strike on some oil refineries

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Speaker 3: on the outskirts of Tehran.

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Speaker 1: By the Israelis.

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Speaker 3: I believe it was storage facilities as well. Now why

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Speaker 3: was that important, Well, because the refined product that's used

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Speaker 3: within Iran provides the IRGC with a steady stream of income,

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Speaker 3: and that steady stream of income has largely ended with

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Speaker 3: the destruction of those facilities. Now, of course that didn't

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Speaker 3: harm Iran's ability to export crude oil. That was for

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Speaker 3: internal consumption. So then let's move to your question about

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Speaker 3: carg Island and about the inbound marine expeditionary unit on

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Speaker 3: board the USS Triplele and how poetic, right from the

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Speaker 3: halls of Montezumo to the shores of Triple E. So

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Speaker 3: the important thing about an me EU marine expeditionary unit

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Speaker 3: is that they're like a self contained army. They you know,

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Speaker 3: of course the Marines wouldn't like to hear that, but

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Speaker 3: I don't mean army with a capital a lower CASEA.

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Speaker 3: So this self contained unit has fighter jets in the

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Speaker 3: form of F thirty five's, it has helicopters in the

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Speaker 3: form of H one Z vipers. It's got heavy lift

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Speaker 3: you know, for example, your osprey's and your c stallions.

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Speaker 3: So it is a a force that is able to

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Speaker 3: project multiple threats. Now go way back with me, if

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Speaker 3: you will, to the First Golf War. I was on

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Speaker 3: active duty for it. Albeit I was supporting the war

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Speaker 3: from the National Training Center in California, working in you

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Speaker 3: the all sorts of intelligence section there. You may recall

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Speaker 3: that we parked a large marine amphibious force off the

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Speaker 3: coast of Kuwait as a feint, and we told Saddam

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Speaker 3: was saying, hey, Saddam, look, you know we have all

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Speaker 3: these marines here ready to invade you from the sea.

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Speaker 3: And what that did was it tied down a lot

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Speaker 3: of Rock's best units in Kuwait to try to face

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Speaker 3: this phantom invasion, while, of course the real threat went

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Speaker 3: way to the west and did this big left hook

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Speaker 3: that completely caught the Iraqi forces you unprepared. So the

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Speaker 3: MEU coming inbound on the Tripoli has all kinds of

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Speaker 3: opportunities that it gives your military planners. Could they take

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Speaker 3: carg Island, Yes they could. Could they work to destroy

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Speaker 3: any sort of anti ship remaining anti ship capability in

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Speaker 3: the Strait of Hormuz, Yes they could. Could their viper

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Speaker 3: helicopters be used to shoot down drones when they if

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Speaker 3: they begin to do convoy operations, Yes they could. So

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Speaker 3: the bottom line is is that this task force, this

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Speaker 3: powerful force of marines, simply multiplies significantly the amount of

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Speaker 3: options available to the Sentcom commander, of which carg Island

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Speaker 3: is only one of the many things that this MEU

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Speaker 3: can do.

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Speaker 2: But you bring up something that I was discussing with

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Speaker 2: Ed Marcy over at hot air dot com. You're both

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Speaker 2: Texas guys. You guys should be talking every day, which

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Speaker 2: is the idea of this this pentagon specifically and the

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Speaker 2: head fake being able to show one thing and then

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Speaker 2: doing another thing.

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Speaker 1: They have been remarkably good at this.

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Speaker 2: Chuck talking to Chuck de Voor of the Texas Public

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Speaker 2: Policy Foundation and the you know, the sending up remember

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Speaker 2: the original bombing raids on the nuclear facilities at Isfahan

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Speaker 2: Foordeaux and Anton's sending B twos this way while you

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Speaker 2: were hitting B twos sending B twos that way. Is

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Speaker 2: has the deception been as successful here with Iran as

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Speaker 2: we have seen it in the past.

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Speaker 3: I certainly think so. I mean, what's interesting to me

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Speaker 3: about democracies and deception plans and specifically the US is

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Speaker 3: that our enemies, traditionally Nazi Germany, for example, with the

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Speaker 3: deception effort that they put in quite successfully to the

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Speaker 3: Battle of the Bulge Right, or the Soviet Union. In

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Speaker 3: the Soviet Unions case, deception was a major part of

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Speaker 3: their doctrine, And with us, it's something that we talk

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Speaker 3: about and we train about, and I think frequently we

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Speaker 3: think that we're not all that good at it because

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Speaker 3: we kind of view it more as an afterthought, largely

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Speaker 3: because we have such huge advantages and logistics and technology

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Speaker 3: and training and morale. But in fact we're actually not

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Speaker 3: bad at it. You saw, for example, an enormously successful

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Speaker 3: deception plan that went into D Day with the signaling

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Speaker 3: of a major of amphibious assault directly across the channel

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Speaker 3: into Calais, and we worked with the French resistance, who

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Speaker 3: frankly didn't quite know what we were doing. We had

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Speaker 3: patent leading a ghost army, the first US army that

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Speaker 3: was completely fake with inflatable tanks, and we're showing Adolf

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Speaker 3: Feldler in his general is exactly what they wanted to see.

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Speaker 3: And then we ended up invading somewhere else in Normandy.

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Speaker 3: So we're actually historically not bad at it. We kind

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Speaker 3: of think that we're bad at it, and I don't

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Speaker 3: know historically have perhaps not put as much emphasis on it.

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Speaker 3: But part of the challenge, of course is leaks. You know,

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Speaker 3: when you're in an open society and you have a

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Speaker 3: democracy like we do, it's hard to keep a secret.

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Speaker 3: On the other hand, sometimes you can use that to

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Speaker 3: your advantage by almost acting as of oops, you know,

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Speaker 3: we just have revealed some information that we didn't intend to,

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Speaker 3: when in fact you did intend to reveal this false information.

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Speaker 3: So yes, they have been doing exceptionally well. And you know, Tony,

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Speaker 3: I think there's another huge thing that is often overlooked.

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Speaker 3: Here take a few steps back and look at this.

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Speaker 3: Look at where America was Visa vi China and Russia

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Speaker 3: on the eve of the inauguration of Donald Trump. And

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Speaker 3: look at today, where you have Venezuela no longer a

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Speaker 3: Chinese outpost. You have Cuba ready to fall to the

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Speaker 3: forces of freedom for the first time in sixty plus years.

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Speaker 3: You have Mexico and their one party dictatorship becoming increasingly isolated,

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Speaker 3: and the human trafficking and drug cartels being increasingly pressured.

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Speaker 3: And now you have Iran, which is bedoubled American foreign

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Speaker 3: policy and the general neighborhood of the Middle East since

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy nine, and a major part of China and

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Speaker 3: Russia's war plans that they would be available as a

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Speaker 3: irritant or a distraction for the US if anything were

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Speaker 3: to happen. If you were Jijingping today, you would have

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Speaker 3: to look at the current state of the world and

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Speaker 3: determine that America under Donald Trump is so powerful and

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Speaker 3: so strong militarily that you don't dare even dream about

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Speaker 3: trying to take Taiwan by force. That is the effectiveness

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Speaker 3: of what's been going on under Donald Trump and the

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Speaker 3: massive increase to our credibility and to our deterrence, which

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, significantly increases the likelihood

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Speaker 3: of peace.

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Speaker 1: I've got more with Chuck de Vorr coming up. Keep

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Speaker 1: it here.

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Speaker 2: This is Tony Katz today. So we have data that

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Speaker 2: shows real successes on the ground in Iran, and I

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Speaker 2: have been very clear that I am supportive of taking

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Speaker 2: out the Iranian regime and ending the terrorism. Tony Katz,

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Speaker 2: Tony Katz today, Good to be here, Good to be

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Speaker 2: with you. Talking to Chuck to Voor of the Texas

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Speaker 2: Public Policy of Foundation.

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Speaker 1: We see and I agree.

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Speaker 2: With you as you are discussing it incredible successes from

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Speaker 2: the United States and the Israelis and taking out the

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Speaker 2: Iranian regime. And while the administration won't refer to it

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Speaker 2: as regime change, the net and Yahoo administration won't refer

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Speaker 2: to it as regime change.

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Speaker 1: I only discuss it as regime change.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe we should ever be in a conversation

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Speaker 2: that isn't we should be in conversations about what is

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Speaker 2: The administration The Trump administration will say that this is

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Speaker 2: to give the Iranian people the opportunity to engage regime change.

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Speaker 2: I think it's okay to refer to it as regime change.

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Speaker 2: I think people find that off putting. I think it

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Speaker 2: is more clarifying than anything else. And people can agree

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Speaker 2: or disagree with me as they choose.

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Speaker 1: But let us get into.

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Speaker 2: The latest news today, which is the taking out by

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Speaker 2: Israeli forces of one of the leaders in Iran. They

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Speaker 2: took out Ali Larijani, the Iranian security chief who just

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Speaker 2: was it a week ago, was out there on social

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Speaker 2: media on the Twitter saying, we defy the US and you.

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Speaker 1: Can't bother us. And we're never going to capitulate. And

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Speaker 1: now he's gone.

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Speaker 2: But we have a lot of people I will personally

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Speaker 2: call out Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, all call out

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Speaker 2: Congressman Rocanna. Sorry Rocanna, California, where you served in the

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Speaker 2: California General Assembly. There are people on the woke right

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Speaker 2: who all want to make this claim that it's twofold,

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Speaker 2: we're losing and we have no business of being there.

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Speaker 2: Israel dragged us into this war. I want to break

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Speaker 2: down this. You know, some people will call it a syap.

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Speaker 2: I would rather say when you don't, when you when

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Speaker 2: you hate Trump, and when you have an ideological belief,

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Speaker 2: it sometimes hard to see the rest of the field.

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Speaker 1: Clearly.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with Senator Chris Murphy, Let's start with Representative Rocanna.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with people like Chris van Holland out of Maryland.

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Speaker 2: This concept that we are losing this war. This was

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Speaker 2: absolutely unnecessary. What an awful mistake. We had no plan

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Speaker 2: going in. Talk to me about battle plans and talk

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Speaker 2: to me about where their conversations come from and what

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Speaker 2: the value of them are.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so, first of all, regarding battle plans, I mean,

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Speaker 3: the US does nothing but plan constantly, whether in peacetime

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Speaker 3: or wartime. I've been privileged to be part of that

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Speaker 3: planning on a tactical and a strategic level. When I

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Speaker 3: was a twenty four to twenty five year old Reagan

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Speaker 3: appointing in the Pentagon, I spent a week in the

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Speaker 3: basement helping to plan an aspect of what eventually became

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Speaker 3: Operation Praying Mantis in nineteen eighty eight, which was at

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Speaker 3: the time the US Navy's largest surface action since World

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Speaker 3: War Two, likely eclipsed by recent action, although of course

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Speaker 3: a lot of the current sinkings have been by missiles

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Speaker 3: and stand off weapons. So first of all, the US

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Speaker 3: military has planned for all these contingencies endlessly, branch plans, sequels.

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Speaker 3: They were prepared, They knew what they were doing. That's

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Speaker 3: number one. Number two. I suppose you could say that

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Speaker 3: the main critics, mostly on the left but some on

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Speaker 3: the right, that are saying that we're losing, are simply

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Speaker 3: reacting to the fact that there has not yet been

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Speaker 3: a formal regime change in Iran. Now I would argue

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Speaker 3: that there has been regime change. Simply ask yourself who

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Speaker 3: is the leader of Iran today and who is the

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Speaker 3: leader of Iran twenty one days ago. Oh, it's different.

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Speaker 3: And then with regards Ali Larrn Johnny, you know, many

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Speaker 3: people were thinking that he was in fact the de

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Speaker 3: facto leader because of course we have not seen the

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Speaker 3: new Supreme Leader at all since that very first night

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Speaker 3: of strikes. So you know, he may be ours to combat,

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Speaker 3: so he may be out of the picture anyway. So

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Speaker 3: has there been functional regime change? Yes, there has been

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Speaker 3: functional regime change. Are the people of Iran in charge

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Speaker 3: of their own destiny yet? No? Not yet? Are they

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Speaker 3: closer to that day? I believe they are. And so

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Speaker 3: then when you look at, for example, the progress of

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Speaker 3: this campaign and you look at the you know, how

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Speaker 3: many aircraft, how many aircrew have been lost to enemy fire? None? Right,

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Speaker 3: we have the three fifteen's near the very beginning of

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Speaker 3: the conflict shutdown by friendly fire by Kuwait. Very natural,

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Speaker 3: dangerous thing to happen. You know, you have a language barrier,

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Speaker 3: you have training and doctrine barriers. Communications, obviously those things

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Speaker 3: get worked out. Then you had the tragic loss of

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Speaker 3: the KC one thirty five crew that were over friendly territory. Again,

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Speaker 3: very dangerous operations. I've been up in a KC ten

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Speaker 3: tanker at night refueling a tens and a six attack aircraft.

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Speaker 3: It was a fascinating thing. I got to be back

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Speaker 3: in the tail boom and watch the different aircraft come up.

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Speaker 3: They come out of nowhere at night, right, especially on

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Speaker 3: a moonless night, you see nothing that all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: you see this aircraft that's like two hundred feet away,

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Speaker 3: you know, taking in you know, ten thousand pounds of

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Speaker 3: fuel or something. It's just amazing to watch. So, you know,

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Speaker 3: that's a difficult thing to do. That we trained for

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Speaker 3: all the time. So if you look at the losses

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Speaker 3: we've suffered, and if you look at the decline and

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Speaker 3: the rate of incoming missiles and drones, you have to

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Speaker 3: conclude that it's been nothing but as spectacular success. Is

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Speaker 3: the regime writ large still in charge nominally? Are they

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Speaker 3: barely hanging on? Probably? Are things going to look a

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Speaker 3: lot different in two months? Yeah? I think they will.

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Speaker 2: The woke right, which is now Tucker Carlson and Canda

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Speaker 2: Soans and Megan Kelly and others. This should never have happened.

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Speaker 2: We should not be in this position. And they'll do

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Speaker 2: two things. They'll talk about forever wars this buzzword, and

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Speaker 2: then they'll say.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, the Israeli has dragged us into this.

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Speaker 2: Now, if you follow my social media feed, the new

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Speaker 2: allegation is I am paid by Masad, but not as

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Speaker 2: much as other people because I'm not as popular. So

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Speaker 2: I'm getting Massad money, but I'm not getting the real

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Speaker 2: Massade money, which, by the way, infuriates me to no end,

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Speaker 2: because if someone's going to pretend I'm getting paid, I

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Speaker 2: would like for them to pretend I'm getting paid all

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Speaker 2: the dollars and.

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Speaker 1: Not some sliver in their exchange, in their make belief fantasy.

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Speaker 1: I would like to think of myself as a big shot.

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Speaker 2: But this is this is the argument, right, I disagree

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Speaker 2: with what's happening, so therefore you're paid.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's it's this argument of whether or not Tucker Carlson's

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Speaker 2: getting paid by Cutter or Qatar, however you want to

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Speaker 2: pronounce it. My answer is I have absolutely no idea

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Speaker 2: until you show me some data, otherwise leave me be.

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Speaker 2: I can't throw that into my thoughts. But this response

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Speaker 2: of Israel dragged us into this. How do people who

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Speaker 2: have a military background, military leaders, people like yourself, and

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Speaker 2: certainly it's it's never going to be one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: How does this get viewed and what is the purpose

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Speaker 2: of this argument? Do you think that there's any any

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Speaker 2: kernel of truth or historical connection to it?

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Speaker 3: Right? So, I mean, of course, if you go back

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Speaker 3: some you know, one hundred years, ninety years, you had

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Speaker 3: Smedley Butler. This I think he was a Marine Corps

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Speaker 3: veteran of World War One who claimed that it was

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Speaker 3: all you know, the industrialists that were promoting war and

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Speaker 3: was a big part of the isolationist movement of the

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Speaker 3: twenties and thirties. So there's always been the strain in

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Speaker 3: American thought, and there always will be. But let's go

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Speaker 3: back and look at some of the things that you

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Speaker 3: laid out. First of all, this concept that Israel somehow

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Speaker 3: dragged us into this. There has recently been uncovered video

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Speaker 3: of Donald Trump going clear back to the eighties, in

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Speaker 3: just a few years after the Islamic Revolution took over

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Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy nine, saying that we're going to have

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Speaker 3: to deal with Iran, that iron is our enemy. We're

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Speaker 3: going to have to You know, if I was president,

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Speaker 3: I would have done it differently. I would have taken

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Speaker 3: them out. Okay, So you have that from Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: when he was merely a moderately high profile real estate

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Speaker 3: developer in the A and he's consistently said that every

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Speaker 3: decade since, years before he ever became president. So any

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Speaker 3: thought that someone with the personality the force of personality

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Speaker 3: that Donald J. Trump has somehow being led around by

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Speaker 3: the nose by the Israelis is just ridiculous on its face.

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Speaker 3: So let's set that aside. Now, let's talk about a

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Speaker 3: couple other aspects of this. The Forever Wars. You know,

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Speaker 3: there is some concern, there is some legitimate credibility about that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I was a critic consistently of the way

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Speaker 3: we were going about fighting in Afghanistan in Iraq. I'm

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Speaker 3: a fan of the punitive expedition. If you are wronged

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Speaker 3: or harmed by somebody, you go in, you kill them,

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Speaker 3: you leave their heads on pikes as warnings to others,

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Speaker 3: and then you leave. And the fact that you may

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Speaker 3: have messed things up in that country does not incur

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Speaker 3: upon you a moral obligation to go back and make

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Speaker 3: it somehow as nice as the fifty first US state. No,

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Speaker 3: you leave the wreckage as a warning to others. There's

436
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: a big difference between a putative expedition and nation building,

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00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 3: which is what we got involved in through what I

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00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 3: believed to be terrible hubris, terrible arrogance on our part,

439
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 3: that we could go in and somehow transplant this pluralistic,

440
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 3: a rule of law republic concepts into this tribal, ancient

441
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 3: land of hatreds known as Afghanistan. What a fool's eron,

442
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: you know, trillions of dollars, thousands of lives lost, and

443
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 3: tens of thousands of people injured. Later and then we

444
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 3: leave with our tail between our legs, and we see

445
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 3: the government fall instantaneously and embolden Putin to then invade

446
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 3: Ukraine the very next year. Now, I warned that this

447
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,159
Speaker 3: would be the case clearback Tony in two thousand and

448
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 3: nine when I was running for the US Senate in California,

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00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 3: and the San Francisco Chronicle asked me and Carly Fiurina

450
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 3: to comment on Obama's speech, and I warned that what

451
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 3: we were doing in Afghanistan would what not work, and

452
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 3: that the government would fall soon after we left. And

453
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 3: I was accused by Carli Fiorina's people being soft on terror.

454
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 3: And what did I say that we needed to do

455
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 3: with the money we saved to recapitalize our military to

456
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: deter the resurgence of China and a revoncist Islamic republic

457
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 3: of Iran. And so I certainly think that I was

458
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 3: right on the money there. Now there was one last

459
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 3: aspect of it, and that is anti Semitism. Anti Semitism

460
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 3: has of course been with us for at least a

461
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: couple thousand years, if not longer. And you know, what

462
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 3: you find is that some people, of course are genuinely

463
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 3: just burning with their hatred for the Jewish people. But

464
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 3: there's a whole other class of people for whom conspiracy

465
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 3: theories are a good way of kind of explaining away

466
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 3: you know, their circumstances in life. You know that you

467
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: didn't get the promotion, you still rent, you don't own

468
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 3: a home, you know your wife left you. You know

469
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 3: things are bad. It must be the Jews fault, right,

470
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 3: something other than the fact that you lack ambition or

471
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 3: intelligence or whatever to take care of yourself. And so

472
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 3: you often see conspiracy theories is this refuge for those

473
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 3: who aren't doing so well. And so I think that

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00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 3: you have a combination of all of these factors. There's

475
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 3: no one factor that I think is predominant. But you

476
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 3: know what's going to be interesting at the end of

477
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 3: the day, Tony, When this ends up being a historic

478
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 3: victory on the scale of the fall of the Berlin

479
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 3: Wall in nineteen eighty nine and the subsequent collapse of

480
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 3: the Soviet Union in nineteen ninety one, I think that

481
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 3: people are going to look back and maybe try to

482
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 3: cover up some of their social media history, maybe make

483
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 3: a few, you know, discreete deletions, and do some revision.

484
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 3: You know, I was behind Trump all along.

485
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: That involves people having shame in today's world, and that

486
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 2: just doesn't happen. Chuck DeVore, Texas Public Policy Foundation, I

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Speaker 2: appreciate you taking the time to be with us. More

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Speaker 2: is coming up. I'm Tony Katz, and this is Tony

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00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: Katz today,