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Speaker 1: Live from Vaal, Hartland and the Crossroads of America. It's

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Speaker 1: Tony Katz today.

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Speaker 2: So we are now in day nine hundred trillion of

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Speaker 2: the shutdown, and I'm telling you, no one still cares.

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Speaker 1: But we've clearly seen that this is a.

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Speaker 2: Political prop because I saw CNN announced that they were

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Speaker 2: gonna have a town hall with Bernie Sanders and representative

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Speaker 2: of Cassia Cortes. Clearly they're testing out the twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: eight ticket. Oh you think anyone cares that he's three

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Speaker 2: hundred and forty two years old. Stop it, No one,

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Speaker 2: No one on the left is going to care day

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Speaker 2: he's the nominee. They're gonna say, finally, right, dang that

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Speaker 2: Hillary for stealing it from him in twenty sixteen when

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Speaker 2: the Democratic Party stole it from Bernie Sanders.

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Speaker 1: And of course the Costio Cortez is the future for some.

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Speaker 2: But they're gonna have a town hall about the shutdown.

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Speaker 2: They were announcing this on Friday. They knew the shutdown

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Speaker 2: was going to take that long.

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Speaker 1: It's proof, in.

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Speaker 2: My view that they are believers in exact as much

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Speaker 2: pain as possible to get their political objectives accomplished, which

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Speaker 2: is how do you make Trump look bad.

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Speaker 1: And how I think this works.

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Speaker 2: Is trying to take credit for the continuation of Obamacare subsidies,

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Speaker 2: the subsidies that were supposed to sunset with the end

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five, because they know that if they

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Speaker 2: agree to a negotiation, Trump's going to extend them anyway,

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Speaker 2: because his populace bona fides.

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Speaker 1: Are going to absolutely go in that direction.

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Speaker 2: And then he's going to take credit for it, and

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Speaker 2: they don't want to lose credit for it.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of lot of layers to

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Speaker 1: the thing.

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Speaker 2: Let me bring back Noah Rothlan from National Review dot Com,

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Speaker 2: because Noah, you have this piece the GOP is letting

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Speaker 2: the Democrats win the shutdown, And I'm telling you, Noah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking about, in what world,

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Speaker 2: in what thought process, how do you come to the

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Speaker 2: place where Republicans are letting Democrats win the shutdown?

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Speaker 3: When I published that piece on October ninth, the morning

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Speaker 3: of October ninth, nothing that had been advertised that was

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Speaker 3: going to punish Democrats for seeking and shutting down the

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Speaker 3: government had happened, not one thing. I don't know how

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Speaker 3: any Republican could have been comfortable at that point with

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Speaker 3: the lack of squirming that Democrats were engaged inaged having

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Speaker 3: shut down the government with a convoluted theory of the

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Speaker 3: case that they could argue about Obamacare subsidies, that they

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Speaker 3: themselves implemented this shutdown there rather, this phase out process

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Speaker 3: was implemented because they couldn't get Joe Mansion on board

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Speaker 3: for the Inflation Reduction Act. As part of the Inflation

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Speaker 3: Reduction Act. This is all they're doing, all they're making

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Speaker 3: and Republicans did what they promised at the outset of

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Speaker 3: the shutdown, massive layoffs. There were none they promised to

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Speaker 3: impose costs on Democrats politically about Obamacare. They weren't even

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Speaker 3: talking about Obamacare. Indeed, are reporters like Cracked. National Review

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Speaker 3: reporter Audrey Folberg reported well in advance of much of

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Speaker 3: the media that the Republicans in Congress were thinking about

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Speaker 3: caving to these demands put in some few more subsidies,

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Speaker 3: COVID era subsidies. And by the way, this is about

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Speaker 3: six million people we're taking advantage of this stuff in

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Speaker 3: twenty fourteen, and today it's like twenty three million. It

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Speaker 3: just grows and grows and grows in the interim. In

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Speaker 3: the days since, we've seen Republicans put a little bit

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Speaker 3: of muscle to their Democratic colleagues. The firings that Russ

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Speaker 3: fought advertised are happening, and they're going to go to

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Speaker 3: court and say, Daris to you know, we don't want

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Speaker 3: to hire these people back. What are you going to

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Speaker 3: do about it? We've seen Speaker Johnson now actually making

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Speaker 3: the case against Obamacare for the first time in a

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Speaker 3: long time. Lo and behold that the Speaker of the

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Speaker 3: House is saying that this is an unsustainable, entitled in

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Speaker 3: program that was designed.

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Speaker 4: To fail at all.

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Speaker 3: It is is just this gaping maw into which we

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Speaker 3: shovel taxpayer dollars that go nowhere and do nothing for you.

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Speaker 4: That's what I wanted to see.

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Speaker 3: And we're finally beginning to see it. So it's not

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Speaker 3: my universe that I don't quite understand. I don't understand

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Speaker 3: how Republicans and of any stripe were comfortable with the

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Speaker 3: degree to which they were letting Democrats retail narratives that

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Speaker 3: are false and flawed and shutting down the government to

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Speaker 3: pursue a negotiating tactic that they just came up with

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Speaker 3: after the fact, and that we all know has only

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Speaker 3: anything to do with Chuck Schumer's deteriorating position among progressive voters.

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Speaker 3: Which is true or more tolerant of that? We're tolerant

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Speaker 3: of that.

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Speaker 2: We're in all sorts of agreement that Schumer has lost

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Speaker 2: the plot. He can't lead, he is not a wartime conciliary,

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Speaker 2: and his day as leader is done.

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Speaker 1: We agree with.

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Speaker 3: This, Yeah, I would imagine. So, I mean, I'm not sure,

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Speaker 3: but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he didn't

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Speaker 3: run for re election, seeing a causey of Quartez coming

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Speaker 3: up in his rear.

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Speaker 2: Talking to Noah Rothlin of National Review, your point is.

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Speaker 1: Now, as I understand it, is very well.

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Speaker 2: Taken because you're making the argument, and it's interesting to

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Speaker 2: hear it from you.

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Speaker 1: All Right. I consider you one of the more astute minds.

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Speaker 2: I don't always agree, but I am convinced that there's

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Speaker 2: real thought and caring going into your positions, based on

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Speaker 2: your big history brain and your understanding of conservatism. But

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Speaker 2: it's sometimes really nice to hear you say, Man, these

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Speaker 2: Republicans are a bunch of pansies.

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Speaker 1: What the hell is this money?

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Speaker 3: Honey?

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Speaker 1: But that's your argument. I love it.

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Speaker 3: I have this earned reputation among the activist class on

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Speaker 3: the American right for being kind of squishy, but it

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Speaker 3: has nothing to do with It has everything to do

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Speaker 3: with tactics and not about strategy. The people who want

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Speaker 3: to fight every time for every hill, at all times,

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Speaker 3: without any consideration for the consequences or strategic positioning get

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Speaker 3: really annoyed when I say, now, this is not the

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Speaker 3: great time to fight. That's their problem, That's always been

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Speaker 3: their problem. And then all of a sudden we have

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Speaker 3: a situation where yeah, now's the time to fight. You're

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Speaker 3: loaded for bear, you have a good tactical and strate position,

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Speaker 3: and you're you're observing forbearance. Why because, and the only

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Speaker 3: reason why in my view, is you're getting a lot

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Speaker 3: of pushback, to the extent you're getting any pushback anymore,

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Speaker 3: because it's just really not the case. But when I

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Speaker 3: wrote that piece, getting some pushback from say the comments section,

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Speaker 3: is because it was critical of the Republicans, critical of

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump. And that's the difference. I'm geah, you can

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Speaker 3: be critical of Donald Trumps and still have a tactical

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Speaker 3: and strategic differences with conservatives and still maintain conservative discipline

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Speaker 3: and be a political actor that's effective. But if you're

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Speaker 3: fighting it all all the time, in all ways, in

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Speaker 3: every direction, then you're not going to be effective. Likewise,

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Speaker 3: if you're just giving up for the sake of giving

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Speaker 3: up for the sake of a political narrative, which would

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Speaker 3: look like for a while. As you say, you still

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Speaker 3: anticipate Donald Trump to fold when it comes to these

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Speaker 3: Obolacare subsidies. That would be a terrible disaster GOP.

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Speaker 1: Oh, do you want to place bets? Noah, put your

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Speaker 1: money down.

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Speaker 3: I don't think you're wrong. I don't think you're wrong.

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Speaker 3: I think it would be a terrible disaster for the GOP.

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Speaker 1: It's coming.

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Speaker 3: I mean, notify are legitimize Obamacare and to just shovel

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Speaker 3: money into it and take ownership of that program when

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Speaker 3: it is in secret. Jhnston is right, destined to implode,

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Speaker 3: be very bad for the Rebublic.

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Speaker 1: I've got the populace.

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Speaker 3: I don't think you're wrong, but it's but it's terrible

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Speaker 3: and it should be opposed.

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Speaker 2: Talking to Noah Rothman of National Review, be sure to

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Speaker 2: check out his columns over there, and be sure to

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Speaker 2: check out his books, including the Rise of the New Puritans,

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Speaker 2: Fighting back against progressives. War on Fun available at Amazon

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Speaker 2: dot com wherever fine books are sold. I've got the

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Speaker 2: populist Marjorie Taylor Green sounding.

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Speaker 1: Like a democrat.

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Speaker 2: I've got the popular center Josh Hawley sounding like a democrat.

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Speaker 1: There's a real freaking problem going on here.

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Speaker 3: What this is not the first time, No, it's not

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Speaker 3: the first time. Popularist Republicans sound like democrats because they

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Speaker 3: embraced democratic policies.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that's why, and they always have.

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Speaker 3: Don't need two parties in this country of the same

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Speaker 3: mind on whether the government spends too much money or

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Speaker 3: not enough.

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Speaker 1: Money, rather not enough money.

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Speaker 2: Right, there's I'm hearing Josh Holly discuss the fact that

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Speaker 2: we need to be pushing back on Amazon because they're

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Speaker 2: not unionized. And so of course Trump is going to

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Speaker 2: do it because it's going to make him look good.

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Speaker 2: Look what I'm doing, extending your subsidies. And yes, you've

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Speaker 2: got populous Republicans who are going to absolutely fall in

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Speaker 2: line because they see some kind of weird value system here.

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Speaker 1: They do.

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Speaker 3: They see a political argument. The Americans like unions a

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Speaker 3: lot in abstract, they don't want to join them, which

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Speaker 3: is killing. It tells you something about ten percent of

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Speaker 3: the private workforce is unionizing this country. You would thank

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Speaker 3: for the amount of time that politicians talk about unions

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Speaker 3: that half the country belong to organized labor. They don't.

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Speaker 3: One of the Republican Party's biggest victories of the twenty

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Speaker 3: tens was not just policy oriented, but paradigmatic right to

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Speaker 3: work laws, which allowed individuals to join whatever shop they

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Speaker 3: want to and work at whatever shop they want to

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Speaker 3: without being forced to join a union or without being

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Speaker 3: forced to contribute wages to an organization they might not

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Speaker 3: even belong to. That was a stumongous victory for the GOP,

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Speaker 3: and it has been eroded in part because Republicans turned

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Speaker 3: against it and don't celebrate it anymore. They don't even

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Speaker 3: seem to notice that these laws are being repealed in

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Speaker 3: places like Michigan. It's a travesty for the Republican Party.

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Speaker 3: They're just giving up a victory that took them a

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Speaker 3: generation to secure, and all in the pursuit of this

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Speaker 3: convoluted idea of what the electorate is or what it

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Speaker 3: looks like. In this the noble working man theory of

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Speaker 3: the case that Donald Trump and his accolytes seemed to

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Speaker 3: believe delivered him the White House. It wasn't union members

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Speaker 3: that delivered him the White House. They contributed because he

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Speaker 3: had a giant coalition of voters. The giant coalition of

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Speaker 3: voters is what got you into the White House. And

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Speaker 3: preserving that and making life better for them on the whole,

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Speaker 3: on the aggregate is what's going to keep the Republican

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Speaker 3: Party in power.

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Speaker 2: Abandoning them will not no Rothman National Review, Noahs C.

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Speaker 1: Rothlin.

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Speaker 2: That's the letter C Noahs C. Rothman on X following there.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate it, man very very much. This is Tony

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Speaker 2: Katz today. So the big story today, of course, is

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Speaker 2: the return of the hostages twenty alive back in Israel,

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Speaker 2: back with their families, back with their loved ones, the

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Speaker 2: remains of twenty eight. Still we wonder whether all the

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Speaker 2: remains are going to get back, And some people have

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Speaker 2: brought up a very fascinating point regarding the fact that

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Speaker 2: there are no female hostages alive, and is there something

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Speaker 2: to that that we really need to focus on.

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Speaker 1: And before we.

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Speaker 2: Got to this day, there was a madness that took

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Speaker 2: place last week regarding the bigot Canda owns. Then for

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Speaker 2: the record, I said bigot. I meant bigot. I'm not

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Speaker 2: apologizing for it in any way, a shape or form.

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Speaker 2: Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, good to be with you.

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Speaker 2: Josh Hammer joins me right now. Josh Hammer is the

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Speaker 2: senior editor at large at Newsweek, and he is the

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Speaker 2: host of the Josh Hammer Show. He's also the author

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Speaker 2: of Israel and Civilization, The Fate of the Jewish Nation,

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Speaker 2: and the Destiny of the West. I bring up Candaso

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Speaker 2: and specifically in your article, because she is coming at

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Speaker 2: you engaging this idea of complicity in the assassination of

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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk. I want to get to that, but I'm

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Speaker 2: going to start where I start with today. These hostages

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Speaker 2: are home three hundred I'm sorry, seven hundred, and was

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Speaker 2: it sixty seven days? Seven thirty seven days in captivity

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Speaker 2: in the conditions, in conditions you could not dream of

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Speaker 2: in terms of their hardness. Talk to me about the

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Speaker 2: Israeli take on this day and how it is that

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Speaker 2: you think foreign policy under Trump will be looked at

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Speaker 2: going forward.

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Speaker 4: Well, Tony, great to join you. As always.

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Speaker 5: Look, I think that he is really perspective, and the

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Speaker 5: American perspective at least my perspective are slightly different when

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Speaker 5: it comes to this, but generally speaking, certainly very similar.

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Speaker 5: I say all that time because as an American citizen,

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Speaker 5: my number one, my number one wished goal of the

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Speaker 5: war in Gaza has been all along the complete obliteration

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Speaker 5: of Hamas.

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Speaker 4: I care about the hostages.

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Speaker 5: I don't want to sound callous, but to me, as

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Speaker 5: an American thinking about American geopolitics and strategy, Hamas and

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Speaker 5: getting rid of them has always been the number one objective.

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Speaker 5: This is, after all, a US foreign terrorist organization. I

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Speaker 5: think the really perspective is slightly more more nuanced because

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Speaker 5: at beginning there were a dozens of American hostages. There

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Speaker 5: were hostages from various other countries as well, European countries

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Speaker 5: and so forth. The only majority of the hostages are,

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Speaker 5: and up until today, were Israeli citizens. So the emotional

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Speaker 5: calculus I think for the Israelities is slightly different. And

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Speaker 5: when I was there Tony, most recently, I was just

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Speaker 5: there in June. We were actually there right when the

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Speaker 5: war with the Ron started. That's a whole another story

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Speaker 5: for a different day.

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Speaker 4: Perhaps. Let me tell you that the posters of.

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Speaker 5: The hostages are ubiquitous. They are all throughout the country.

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Speaker 5: They are on the highway overpasses, they are on the

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Speaker 5: lamp posts, they are truly, truly everywhere. This is a

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Speaker 5: country that has been has been yearning, that's been thirsting to.

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Speaker 6: Get its hostages back.

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Speaker 5: And I think from that perspective, this is a pretty

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Speaker 5: much unambiguously good day in Israel. Now, there is a

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Speaker 5: slight caveat or two. The biggest caveat is that if

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Speaker 5: you look at some of the horrific individuals that Israel

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Speaker 5: is giving up at the price have gotten these hostages back,

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Speaker 5: these are some really, really bad people. And this is

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Speaker 5: how this always goes, Tony. I mean, you and I

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Speaker 5: have been around the block a little bit. We've seen

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Speaker 5: these deals over the years, going back at least as

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Speaker 5: far as the Gee Shalit prisoner swap back in twenty eleven,

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Speaker 5: whereas well exchanged over one thousand died in the world

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Speaker 5: jihatis just to get one.

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Speaker 4: Captured soldier back.

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Speaker 5: This ratio is slightly less insane, but there are still

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Speaker 5: a lot of really bad Jihadis who are being released

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Speaker 5: in this deal. And in that twenty eleven swap, it

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Speaker 5: was actually ya ya Sinwar was one of the Jijihatis

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Speaker 5: who was released into Gaza. Ya Ya Sinwar, of course,

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Speaker 5: infamously ends up becoming the masterminds of October seven, twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty three.

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Speaker 4: So that's that's.

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Speaker 6: The question I think I and many others have, is.

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Speaker 5: God forbid, is the next ya Ya Sinwar, the next

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Speaker 5: ismel Hania? Is that person in this deal? It's it's

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Speaker 5: pretty much impossible to know. But I think rather than

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Speaker 5: focus on the negatives, that we really should focus on

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Speaker 5: the positives, which is that this is a beautiful day.

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump gave a very funny, a very emotional speech

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Speaker 5: in the Knesset. He was clearly enjoying himself. There are

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Speaker 5: a lot of genuinely kind of slapstick comedy lines the

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Speaker 5: whole knet that the legislature was really laughing there and

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Speaker 5: overall kind of zoom a little bit focused on the

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Speaker 5: bigger picture, Tony, this is a really, really fantastic day

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Speaker 5: for you with Israel relationship.

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Speaker 2: The speech that he gave certainly was it was a

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Speaker 2: little bit you know, classic Trump.

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Speaker 1: It was a little bit all over the place. It

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Speaker 1: was certainly.

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Speaker 2: Funny and trying to be a little bit light like, hey,

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Speaker 2: this is celebration. I sometimes think in those moments that

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Speaker 2: Trump is so Trump that he misses moments that could

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Speaker 2: be better for him in their pronunciations. But in one

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Speaker 2: of his statements, for everything he has ever said, he

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Speaker 2: was very clear, Israel remains. He was very clear, and

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Speaker 2: that as he heads to Egypt for this other meaning this,

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Speaker 2: whether you call it a security meeting, whatever the case

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Speaker 2: may be, once you're sitting in front of the Canassa

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Speaker 2: and saying Israel remains, Israel's going to be here.

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Speaker 1: This anti Semitism doesn't work.

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Speaker 2: He's setting up the story for how other things are

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Speaker 2: going to be presented. This clearly was the very fundamentals

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Speaker 2: of the Abraham Accords, which is to say, okay, you've

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Speaker 2: got a problem with Israel regarding the Palestinians, but it

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Speaker 2: doesn't make sense that you're not making money over here

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Speaker 2: or creating some peace over here. So do that and

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Speaker 2: then we'll get to the other stuff later. It was

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Speaker 2: a reversing of the concepts. Is Trump's speech today the

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Speaker 2: final word on that this is the way it is,

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Speaker 2: and everybody better get on board or your life is

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Speaker 2: going the stink.

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Speaker 5: Well, you're right that, especially in his first term, but

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Speaker 5: certainly to no small extent in this second term as well.

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Speaker 5: I think Trump's approach to the Israeli Palestinian conflict more

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Speaker 5: generally has been to essentially invert the bipartisan script for

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Speaker 5: the past fifty sixty years or so. For decades and decades,

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Speaker 5: you had this bipartisan two state solution cartel, the professional

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Speaker 5: peace profsers, these are the various terms that I've kind

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Speaker 5: of used over the years, and you basically have folks

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Speaker 5: from all the cross the spectrum who decided that the

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Speaker 5: only way to yet a full and lasting piece in

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Speaker 5: the Middle East was to create yet another Muslim majority state.

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Speaker 5: Was racial to create a new Arab states right in

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Speaker 5: the heart of the Holy Land, a state that would

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Speaker 5: be inevitably overrun by Jihadis, that would probably become an

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Speaker 5: Iranian Satropy overnight. And the thinking goes that this was

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Speaker 5: the one destabilizing issue in the region. But the beauty

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Speaker 5: of Donald Trump's vision for the Middle East and his

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Speaker 5: vision foreign policy, I would argue more generally, is that

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Speaker 5: he doesn't view foreign policy through an ideological prism. He

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Speaker 5: doesn't view it through the same prism that someone like

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Speaker 5: a Barack Obama or even a George W. Bush would

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Speaker 5: have viewed it, whereby it's kind of an over an,

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Speaker 5: over emphasis on self determination, over emphasis that all cultures

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Speaker 5: are alike, that we all have the same inevitable yearning

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Speaker 5: for human freedom, and so forth. There No Donald Trump

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Speaker 5: used foreign policy, not through any of those ideological abstractions.

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Speaker 5: He'd used foreign policy, and certainly the Middle East, through

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Speaker 5: a hard hitted, hard headed, excuse me, prism of American

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Speaker 5: national interest, just to say that he is a foreign

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Speaker 5: policy realist. And what he showed in his first term,

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Speaker 5: and again I would argue thus for on a second term,

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Speaker 5: is that American national interests and our security interests in

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Speaker 5: the Middle East are are strengthened, are not undermined, but

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Speaker 5: our strengthen when we go all in to bolster US

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Speaker 5: Israel relations, when we ensure that the rest of the

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Speaker 5: region knows full well where exactly the United States stands.

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Speaker 5: The United States stands unequivocally with Israel, and you have

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Speaker 5: the more moderates, non islmiths Arab states that get in line.

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Speaker 5: That's how you got the Abraham Accords with the UAE, Bahrain,

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Speaker 5: Morocco and so forth. There, and I think you're seeing

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Speaker 5: much of the same here the twenty point plan that

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump has laid out, and we can, you know,

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Speaker 5: we can have a conversation as to whether or not

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Speaker 5: that's all going to happen. I have my suspicions I

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Speaker 5: think will be a play way of saying it.

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Speaker 4: But in theory, what he's laying out.

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Speaker 5: For the rest of this plan after the hostages have

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Speaker 5: now been released, is that you're going to have non

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Speaker 5: islamissed actors.

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Speaker 6: You're going to have moderate actors.

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Speaker 4: God willing, that would come in and rule of Gaza.

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Speaker 4: So it is.

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Speaker 5: It is a sober view of the Israeli Palestinian conflict there.

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Speaker 5: And I certainly hope Tony that they said you had

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Speaker 5: another dagger in the hearts of the professional two state

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Speaker 5: solution cartel, because whatever may happen in Gaza over the

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Speaker 5: next five ten years, and there's a lot of questions

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Speaker 5: remain about that there, it's certainly not going to be

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Speaker 5: a brand new nation state in the United Nations or

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Speaker 5: anything like that.

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Speaker 2: Or with Josh Hammer coming up, including what Candace Owen

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Speaker 2: said about him and the assassination of Charlie Kirk, it's nuts.

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Speaker 1: You won't believe it. Keep it here. I'm Tony Katz

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Speaker 1: and this is Tony Katz Today.

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Speaker 2: Find everything at Tony Katz dot com. So what in

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Speaker 2: the world did Candace Owen say about our guest Josh

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Speaker 2: Hammer engaging this idea of somehow he's connected to the

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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk assassination. And is it actually drift on the

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Speaker 2: part of Candace Owens. Does she believe anything she says

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Speaker 2: or does that part even matter when you hear what

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Speaker 2: it is that she's saying. Tony Kats Tony Katz Today.

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Speaker 1: Great to be with you guys. As always talking to

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Speaker 1: Josh Hammer.

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Speaker 2: You catch his work over at Newsweek Senior editor at Large,

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Speaker 2: host of The Josh Hammer Show. His book Israel and Civilization,

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Speaker 2: The Fate of the Jewish Nation and the Destiny of

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Speaker 2: the West that's available at Amazon dot com, where he

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Speaker 2: find books are sold. The reason I had reached out

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Speaker 2: and said we need to get you back on the show,

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Speaker 2: it's what Candace Owens has been saying.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: I have spoken to Kira Davis about this, who has

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Speaker 2: long written about Candace Owens and seeing a specific issue.

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Speaker 1: Some may say that she's.

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Speaker 2: I've heard people discuss the fact that she's a grifter,

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Speaker 2: that she is somebody who sees an opportunity and takes

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Speaker 2: an opportunity. I would would definitely let people say that.

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Speaker 2: Some people say that she simply has always had these

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Speaker 2: very bigoted views, anti Semitic views, and has now built

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Speaker 2: up a platform large enough to be able to espouse

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Speaker 2: them without any level of fear.

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Speaker 1: There is a supporter for.

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Speaker 2: This content which we see on the what do you

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Speaker 2: call it, the woke right, the new right, whatever the

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Speaker 2: case may be. I have never been a fan. I've

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Speaker 2: never had her on the show. I was once at

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Speaker 2: an event where she was speaking. I was part of

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Speaker 2: the little VIP meet and greet section. Didn't go for

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Speaker 2: the photograph I'm on record. But here is a different

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Speaker 2: conversation where she is accusing I'm utilizing the word accusing

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Speaker 2: my word, you who is friends with Charlie Kirk, with

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Speaker 2: being basically, in your own words, ludicrously accuse me of

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Speaker 2: fore knowledge or perhaps complicity in the murder of my

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Speaker 2: own friend Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 1: What is happening here?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, really are not enough adjectives any English language to

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Speaker 5: describe what Candis Owans is accusing me of here. I mean,

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Speaker 5: we can call it insane, deranged, evil, twisted, sociopathic, psychopathic, demonic, satanic.

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Speaker 5: I mean, those are just a few of the words

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Speaker 5: that jump immediately to mine. I mean this is a

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Speaker 5: sick individual. I mean, this is a truly, truly sick individual.

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Speaker 5: And by the way, I like you, I actually was

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Speaker 5: never a fan either. I never fully understood exactly why

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Speaker 5: why she was being faded and kind of groomed as

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Speaker 5: an up and coming conservative star by many venerable conservative

440
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 5: organizations on the rights.

441
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,120
Speaker 6: I never understood that in myself.

442
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,880
Speaker 5: But whatever there may or may not have been as

443
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 5: far as Merrick to Candice OANs many many years ago,

444
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 5: this is a woman who has just been completely unhinged

445
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 5: off the rails. I would argue at least as far

446
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 5: going back as her defense of Kanye West three years ago,

447
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 5: back when he was going down his pro Hitler Nazi

448
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 5: apology a rabbit hole, but certainly even holding that aside,

449
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 5: at least in October seven, twenty twenty three, this is

450
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 5: a woman who it does not defight to merely call

451
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 5: her anti Israel and anti Zionists. I mean, she is

452
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 5: now spewing medieval style blood libels against the Jewish people.

453
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 5: She speaks of Jewish people in not the esque dehumanizing language,

454
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 5: calling me subhuman and filth. And she's literally doing this,

455
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 5: Tony for one reason and one reason only, which is

456
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 5: that I am Jewish. I am an observant Jew, I

457
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 5: wear a kipa. I wrote a book about the Jews

458
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 5: and Western civilization earlier this year. And she can't stand

459
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 5: the fact, and people like her and Tucker Carlson that

460
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 5: that whole cabal, they can't stand the fact that Charlie

461
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 5: Kirk had Jews like me in his inner circle because

462
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,680
Speaker 5: it complicates their narrative. It complicates their narrative that Charlie

463
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 5: was actively seeking friendships and alliances with individual Jews like me,

464
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 5: with the Jewish people more collectively, that he believes strongly

465
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 5: in us IS relations and in ecumenical Jewish Christian Biblical alliance.

466
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 5: All this is completely contrary to their narrative. And I mean,

467
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 5: I daren't even purport to understand the various things that

468
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 5: Candice is trying to string together to insanely accuse me

469
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 5: of this. She seems to be relying upon this call

470
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 5: Well tweets a day or two before Charlie's assassination, so Tonny.

471
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 5: I mean, you know, you and I both spend a

472
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 5: lot of time on x formally known as Twitter, and

473
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 5: you know there's this thing on Twitter where there's there's

474
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 5: always an old Donald Trump tweet.

475
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 4: Right. People like to say there's always.

476
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: A tweets sweet, right, exactly.

477
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

478
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 5: So the day or two before Charlie assassination, where the

479
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 5: conservative conversation was primarily about the horrific murder of Irena Zarutska,

480
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,479
Speaker 5: the Ukrainian refugee, and the Charlotte light rail and someone

481
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 5: I don't know who it was, I think I saw

482
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 5: Sean Davis of the Federalist tweeting about it. I can't

483
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 5: I can't even remember. It doesn't really matter.

484
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 4: I saw a lot of folks free tweeting this old

485
00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 4: Donald Trump tweet.

486
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 5: I think it was some two twenty thirteen, in the

487
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 5: context of the Boston marathon bombing, calling for a public

488
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 5: execution for the bomber for the Jihadis show Car Zarnaev,

489
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 5: and I quote tweeted that as a lot of people

490
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 5: on my feed were doing that day, and I said

491
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 5: based as in, like, I support this when it comes

492
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 5: to the killer of of Irena Zaruska.

493
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 4: So Candice looked.

494
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 5: At the timeline and says, oh, my god, Josh Hammer

495
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 5: was talking about the assassination of Charlie Kirk. I mean,

496
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 5: he's just so stupid that, I mean, it genuinely makes

497
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 5: you wonder whether or not she's actually this low IQ

498
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 5: or whether or not she's actually evil.

499
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 4: I think it's probably a combination of both those things.

500
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 5: For what's worth there, what I do know, Tony is

501
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 5: that once upon a time, before this nation in the

502
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 5: United States unfortunately liberalized it's involuntary commitment law, someone like

503
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 5: Kenneth Ollenes would have been in the ku crazy world

504
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 5: of a mental asylum. At this point there, I believe

505
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 5: that I have likely been defamed.

506
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 4: I am a lawyer.

507
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 5: I first for a federal appeals judge. I've spoken at

508
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 5: all the top law schools in America. I know a

509
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 5: thing or two about the law. Here I'm speaking with

510
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 5: other lawyers. I think that I likely have a very

511
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 5: serious case of defamation. I've not decided yet whether to

512
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 5: pull the trigger and actually proceed with that, but we have.

513
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 4: A real vible shot if I she decided to go for.

514
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 2: Her seems that she has got a couple of people.

515
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 2: The whole bridge of Marcone Macrochin conversation. But I think

516
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: that the question before many people is okay. So let's

517
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: say she's got some issue with Jews.

518
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: Let's say.

519
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: This is an audience that she found and she just

520
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: wants to make it. I don't know if that part

521
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: is true or not. By the way, I would have

522
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 2: no idea if she believes it or doesn't. That part

523
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 2: doesn't even register with me. But it's a far cry

524
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 2: from oh yeah, that guy, he's complicit. He might as

525
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 2: well have just pulled the trigger. That's a real chasm.

526
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: That's a massive, massive divide. So let me get into

527
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: now the first part of my question, which is what

528
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 2: specific Is there a specific issue that Candace has with

529
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 2: you from something in history, some moment together or or

530
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 2: or or a statement made that created this this level

531
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 2: of animus, Tonny, it's literally.

532
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 4: Just a fact that I'm Jewish.

533
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 5: That that that is, That is literally all that is

534
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 5: happening here. I I've actually never even met candas Ownes.

535
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 4: I don't believe it.

536
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm sure we've been in the same room

537
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 5: at some party or gallo or something. I don't really know,

538
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 5: but we've never had a conversation face to face. It's

539
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 5: literally just just something that that has never happened.

540
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 4: Now.

541
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 5: I think she's been a longstanding skeptic of mine, going

542
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 5: back at least as far as as when I mentioned

543
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 5: the Kanye weston a few years ago. Because I was

544
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 5: one of the I was one of the first ones

545
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 5: to call.

546
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 4: Her out for that.

547
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 5: There were there are actually very few people at that

548
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 5: time who were really kind of of from day one

549
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 5: calling out candidates for going down this movie Farrah Coon,

550
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 5: Nation of Visil on rabbit Hole. And I did a

551
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 5: lot of tweeting and podcasting and so forth about that

552
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 5: at the time, and she was probably not happy about

553
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 5: me back back then as well.

554
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 4: But I call out her grift Tony. I mean that

555
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 4: kind of my m O.

556
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 5: Anyone who follows me, follows my show, follows my column,

557
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 5: or you read my book, whatever, if you know anything

558
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 5: about what I do on a data basis, I call

559
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 5: it like I see it. I'm not there to try

560
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 5: and get the invitor to try and get in some

561
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 5: sort of cool kids club there. Look, I mentioned I

562
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 5: was a lawyer. I worked at kirklan Ellis. I worked

563
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 5: at a major, major law from years ago. If I

564
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 5: want to pursue that career path, I would.

565
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 4: Have been just fine.

566
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,719
Speaker 6: The reason that I decided to kind of shove all

567
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 6: that to the side.

568
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 5: And get involved in this space in the commentary, opining

569
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 5: business and so forth, there is because I care and

570
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 5: because I actually want to call it like I see it.

571
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 5: I have no interest in doing this for the sake

572
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 5: of just going along.

573
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 4: To get along.

574
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 5: So Candice owns a big fraud. She is a fraud,

575
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 5: She is a grifter, and she is just a horrific

576
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 5: of the human being who frankly desperately needs help. She

577
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 5: is profoundly unwell, and I don't know exactly what that

578
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 5: help entails, but she desperately desperately needs it. And I

579
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 5: think that that alone, come out of the fact that

580
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 5: I am publicly and conspicuously Jewish, really is what It

581
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 5: throws her off so much. But again it complicates her

582
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 5: narrative as well. Tell me, it really complicates her narrative

583
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 5: when it comes to trying to define Charlie Church's legacy.

584
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 5: There's been all this insane debate after Charlie's horrific assassination

585
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 5: about his legacy when it comes to the Jewish people

586
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 5: and the Jewish State of Israel, which is disturbing in

587
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 5: of itself, right, I mean, Charlie was murdered by a

588
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 5: left wing fanatic, someone who is in a romantic relationship

589
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 5: with a transgender individual. He had this bizarre fetish for

590
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 5: free culture online. I mean he had the lyrics to

591
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 5: the Italian Marxist song Bella Chao, you know.

592
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 4: On the bullets.

593
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 5: So, I mean, this is a guy whose left wing

594
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 5: bona fittees are not in doubt. The fact that we're

595
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 5: having a conversation at all about the Jews is disturbing.

596
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 5: But Candice, while was partaking in that sort of conversation,

597
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 5: and she just can't stand the fact that I was

598
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 5: a Jew who was in Charlie's inner circle. It complicates

599
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 5: her narrative. Therefore the narrative must be undermined by any

600
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 5: mean necessary.

601
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: So now this leads to the part too.

602
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 5: Right.

603
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: So the first part was the idea of animus. The

604
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: second part is I must say I should have seen

605
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: it coming, the idea of well, it must have been

606
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: a conspiracy that brings about the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

607
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: And then I've said this before. We were not friends,

608
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: we weren't enemies. We just didn't know each other right

609
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: followed each other on social media. That was the very

610
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 2: extent of it, which is completely fine, the idea of oh,

611
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: it must be a conspiracy. That's this part of the

612
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: political right. Listen, I'm not a populist by any stretch

613
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: of the imagination. I am a conservative based on the

614
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: value system. This thing is happening is not healthy.

615
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: It's not good.

616
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: This desire to it had to have been something more

617
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 2: nefarious than it is. I don't know how you get

618
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: more nefarious than progressives genning people up to believing that

619
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: if someone says something you don't like, you should hurt

620
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 2: them to stop them from speaking. I don't It can't

621
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: get more nefarious than that. So where does this part

622
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: come from, This desire for this to be some part

623
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: of great of a great cabal, of a great conspiracy,

624
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 2: as opposed to the one we're staring at every single

625
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: day that we can clearly prove.

626
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 4: It's a good question.

627
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: I mean, tell me.

628
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 5: We live in somewhat conspiratorial times, right, I mean, I mean,

629
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 5: here's the paradox in as far as I see it,

630
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 5: we live in times where the American people's ability to

631
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 5: believe and trust narratives and elites and authorities has declined.

632
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 4: And I've been part of that. To be clear, because I.

633
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 5: Also, like many other my sell Americans do not trust

634
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 5: societal elites nearly as much as I think they would

635
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 5: like to be believed. And I actually date this personally

636
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 5: going back to Russigate. In my mind, the Rushigate scandal.

637
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 5: I can draw a direct line from Russigate and the

638
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 5: Molar probe to the twenty twenty COVID nineteen lockdowns, the

639
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 5: two tier lockdowns when it came to the Black Lives

640
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 5: Matter and TIVA folks getting out Scott's free while all

641
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 5: sorts of religious Christians and Jews are not allowed to

642
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 5: go pray together.

643
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 6: To that, to the twenty twenty.

644
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 5: Election, the hundred Byden laptop, to the prosecution of Donald

645
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 5: Trump and all the various Biden, Merrick Garland DOJ law, theiron,

646
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 5: on and on. It's been a series of events that

647
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 5: I think have really torn the mask off when it

648
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 5: comes to the American people's ability to trust societal elite,

649
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 5: private and public sector elites, and so forth. And again,

650
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 5: much of that is valid and legitimate, but the unfortunate

651
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 5: downside is that when society goes down an ultra conspiratorial path,

652
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 5: and you truly lose the ability to distinguish fast from

653
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 5: fiction and right from wrong, good from evil, etc. Historically, Tony,

654
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 5: there is one group of people that are on the

655
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 5: wrong end of the inevitable sentiments that flow out of

656
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 5: beck of spiritual mentality, and that people is, as you

657
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 5: and I both know, the Jewish people going back in many.

658
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 4: Thousands of years.

659
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 5: So I think one of the easiest ways to try

660
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 5: to not put the genie back in the bottle, but

661
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 5: it tries to really just diminish, to diminish the clouts

662
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 5: or the perceived clouds or whatever it may be. A

663
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 5: people like candatz Owne and Tark Carlson is we have

664
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 5: to try to foster a new counter elite and actually authentic, reputable,

665
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 5: a lead group that is on team civilizational Sanity, that

666
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 5: is not part of the team civilizational arson.

667
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 6: I've seen my friend Chris Rufo.

668
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 5: Of the Manhattanitute to tweet about this and write many

669
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 5: articles about this. Chris is big on the notion of

670
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 5: forming some sort of counter elite. It's a long standing product,

671
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 5: is not the kind thing that happens overnight. But if

672
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 5: we can try and orient a lot of conserve institutions

673
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 5: towards trying to that that should, in the mid to

674
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 5: long term try to restore more credibility to the American

675
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 5: ruling class, and that in turn, I think would have

676
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 5: a positive effect when it comes to ultimately trying to

677
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 5: get rid of some of this anti Semita grifter nonsense.

678
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 2: Which then you have to start with what's the purpose

679
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: of an elite?

680
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: But we'll get to that another day.

681
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: Josh Hammer, I appreciate you taking the time in explaining

682
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 2: what's what the article Operation Divide Maga, which is an

683
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: interesting way to understand what it is believed Candie Owns

684
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 2: is trying to do here or a lot of this

685
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 2: woke right that's available at newsweek dot com Operation Divide Maga,

686
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 2: and the book is We on Civilization, The Fate of

687
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: the Jewish Nation and the Destiny of the West, is

688
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: at Amazon dot com wherever fine books are sold. Josh,

689
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 2: thank you. More to get to I'm Tony Katz. Twenty

690
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: human beings who spent the last seven hundred and thirty

691
00:34:55,320 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: seven days in the dark in a cage saw the

692
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: light today. I don't care if you like Trump or

693
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 2: don't like Trump. You just have to admit it's incredible.

694
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 2: Tony Katz, Tony Katz today, good to be with you.

695
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: Find everything at tonycats dot com. And this is the point.

696
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 2: They won't who is they? We know who they is.

697
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: We the left, the progressive, We have seen them in action.

698
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 2: They can't bring themselves to say nicely done. And when

699
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: they do, whether they be Fetterman or even Hillary Clinton,

700
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 2: it's vilification. Certainly there will be no well done from

701
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: those who are desperate not to see peace, but only destruction,

702
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 2: only of one side and eventually of you, me and we,

703
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 2: because that's where it ends. That's their desire, that's their goal.

704
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: Let us remember that, but let us not focus on

705
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 2: that today. Good work getting these men home, good work

706
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 2: letting them see their families. This is a good day

707
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: and we should remember that.

708
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: Find everything at Tony kats dot com. I'll catch tomorrow.

709
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: Every want to take care