1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: Live from the Heart Blind and the Crossroads of America. 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: It's Tony Katz today. Hey guys, I am Andrew Langer 3 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: in for Tony Katz today, So glad I can join you, 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: and you can join me. If you like what you hear, 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: you know you can check me out. In addition to 6 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: doing radio for Tony, I do some other radio work. 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: Follow me on x at Andrew Underscore Langer for all 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: the latest stuff. I do a weekly public policy deep dive. 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: It's an interview show called The Lunch Hour. It's on 10 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: a platform called the Federal News Wire. This week's episode, 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: I interview the head of the Virginia Academy of Family Physicians, 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: which is actually apropos what we're going to be talking 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: about in this hour. But you know, I just had 14 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: on somebody, Brian Darling. Let's talk about Venezuela and my 15 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: concerns there or some of the concerns that are out 16 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: there there. All kinds of fun stuff on the Lunch 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: Hour podcast. Going to be joined later on in this 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: hour by Jerry Rodgers, who is nominally my co host 19 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: on Andrew and Jerry Save the World. That we haven't 20 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: done an episode of that in a bit perhaps we'll 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: take today's interview and we'll put that up there as 22 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: a as a special just so y'all, you know, so 23 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: you can sort of get a sense as to who 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: we are and what we're up to. So it's funny. 25 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: I was apropos of what we're going to talk about 26 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: in the next few minutes. Cause Jerry Rodgers when he 27 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: joins us, he's also the editor of Real Clear Health 28 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: Healthcare Expert Extraordinaire. I'm sitting at home over the weekend 29 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: and i get a text message from something called Clara 30 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: k l A r A asking me to log in 31 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: and confirm a dermatologist's appointment. What the heck is this? 32 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: I don't. I'm like, thinking, I don't have a dermatology appointment. 33 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: It's telling me that I've got a dermatology appointment in 34 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: February and this, that and the other thing, and I'm like, 35 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: I don't. I honestly have no idea what this is. 36 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: And I'm trying to peel things back and we can't 37 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: get into various websites. So I'm on the break. I 38 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: was on the first break and I called and I 39 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: didn't have enough time to talk to them. So during 40 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: the ten minute break there. I called back and I'm like, 41 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: I trying to figure out when this appointment was made, 42 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: and the woman at the dermatology clinic says, well, was 43 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 1: made in August. I'm like, August, okay, yeah, I see. 44 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: I got a text message about that, no email, no 45 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: nothing else. And then I'm like, well, when when was 46 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: the when was the referral made? And she goes, oh, 47 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: this looks like it was made in June. I'm like, 48 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: good lord, you know, and I and I go back 49 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: through my calendar and I did go see my primary 50 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: care physician about a couple of the different things in June, 51 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: and and you know, here I am. Now I never 52 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: did math on the air, but you know, I'm gonna 53 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: say June seventeenth through February seventeenth, that's eight months. You know, 54 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: God forbid right that I actually have something going on 55 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 1: with me that requires some kind of surgery. And this 56 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: gets into my overall concern about healthcare, which, if you've 57 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: never heard me talk about it, this is in addition 58 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: to the regulatory policy work that I do. I do 59 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: healthcare policy for SEPEC as the director of the Coalition 60 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: against Socialized Medicine. Don't like the name, but this day 61 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: and age, it actually works out really well. Last week 62 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: the President released a healthcare plan. We're going to get 63 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,119 Speaker 1: into this a little more with Jerry Rodgers, but here 64 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: is Marty McCarry, who's a number two over at Health 65 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: and Human Services, Marty McCart, doctor Marty McCarry, talking about this. 66 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: Let's go ahead a land and play cut twenty six. 67 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: Well, this is an exciting healthcare plan. If you look 68 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 2: at the Affordable Care Act or what people call the 69 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 2: Unaffordable Care Act, because it failed in its mission to 70 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: lower health care costs, tens of thousands of new millionaires 71 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: in healthcare that are not patient facing middlemen and administrators. 72 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: And so what President Trump has said is that if 73 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 2: we're going to be giving government money into the healthcare system, 74 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 2: let's give it to Americans. Let's not just give it 75 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: to the insurance companies. Their stock has gone up seventeen 76 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: hundred percent since Alabamacare. Let's have more price transparency. You know, 77 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 2: when you go to the hospital and you ask for 78 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 2: the price of something, American medicine has been giving people 79 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 2: the run around for fifty years. There's no prices until 80 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 2: President Trump started in his first term to require hospitals 81 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 2: to list prices. Well, in this plan that's going to 82 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 2: get expanded, you're going to get prices for everything, and 83 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: insurance companies are going to have to show the prices 84 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 2: of their products and what they cover in plain English. 85 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 2: It also calls to end secret kickbacks to those who 86 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: sell the insurance company. Kickbacks are giant and you're not 87 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 2: always getting an honest, uh sort of portrayal of what's 88 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 2: on the market because of these kickbacks. We as doctors 89 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: are not allowed to accept kickbacks, and neither should healthcare's middlemen. 90 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: And then final point is it really builds on the 91 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: actions to lower drug prices for everyday Americans what we 92 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 2: call most Favored Nation status, a remarkable achievement that many 93 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 2: said couldn't be done. President Trump got it done thanks 94 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 2: to doctor oz We at the FDA contributed in the 95 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 2: ways that we can. We're cutting red tape and you're 96 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: going to see more drugs go to over the counter 97 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 2: so you don't have to go to the er and 98 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: wait just to get a refill on a prescription. 99 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: Okay, listen, I appreciate a lot of what doctor mccaury 100 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: has to say, but there there's there's a lot. There's 101 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: a lot that that's not that's sort of not there, 102 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: especially when we talk about the the MFN issue, most 103 00:05:55,520 --> 00:06:03,239 Speaker 1: Favored Nation issue, hugely problematic. Now, transparency is absolutely important 104 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: preventing kickbacks, both whether when it comes to insurance or 105 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: when it comes to what are called pharmacy benefits managers, 106 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: where where rebates are supposed to be given to consumers 107 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: but they're not and and the insurance companies essentially pocket 108 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: the difference or the PBM's pocket the difference. It's a 109 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: it's a it's a massive, massive problem. In community pharmacies 110 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: are being shut out of the marketplace. Here's the problem. 111 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: Let me break it down for you. The mistake in 112 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: America that we make, well one of the mistakes, but 113 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: the probably the most major mistake in America that we 114 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: make is that we focus on healthcare as an insurance issue. 115 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: It's not. Health Care and health insurance are two very 116 00:06:55,120 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: different things. Healthcare is the timely that you spend in 117 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: front of a healthcare provider, whether it's a doctor, a nurse, 118 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: or a physician's assistant. Right. It's also the technologies or 119 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: the pharmaceuticals that you take. Right, those are the two 120 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: basic components of this, there are the consumer goods that 121 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: are out there. Insurance, or we call health insurance, is 122 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: really about cost sharing, right in the same way that 123 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: a costco membership is about cost sharing. You join Costco 124 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: or Sam's Club or whatever because you're joining with a 125 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: bunch of people and you're getting the benefits of economies 126 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: of scale, right, So you go in and this is 127 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: why you know, when you go to Costco, you get 128 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: to buy a package of steak that has ten stakes 129 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: in it, and that's why they can give you a 130 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: huge discount on those steaks again because all these other 131 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: folks are buying it. Or you buy a mass, a 132 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: massive package of toilet paper or paper towels. That's what 133 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: health insurance is supposed to be like. Now. The problem, 134 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: of course, is that when Costco starts running out of steak, 135 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: or when they start running out of toilet paper or 136 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: paper towels, they can go to their distributor their supplier 137 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: and order more, and presumably the supplier can deal with more. 138 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: I mean, prices go up obviously when the folks who 139 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: are in production or supply cannot meet the demand of 140 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: all of this. But in healthcare, you can't just easily 141 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: go and get more of a doctor's time. And the 142 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: problem is exacerbated by the fact that we're losing doctors 143 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: every year. More and more doctors are getting out of 144 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: the practice of medicine. So we've got increase in demand 145 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: for a good and declining supply and government is trying 146 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: to force down the cost. Now, the same thing can 147 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: be said for pharmaceuticals. So this idea of most favored 148 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: nation is a form of price control. And if we 149 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: have pushed back against price controls when Barack Obama was president, 150 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: the first time, Donald Trump was president, while Joe Biden 151 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: was president, well then we have to push back against 152 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: price controls now. Now the only way you can get 153 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: reductions in pharmaceutical prices is by creating more of them 154 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: here at home. Obviously, the pharmaceutical companies have to recoup 155 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: their investment. That's why there is a period of exclusivity. 156 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: I don't want to get too deep in the weeds here, 157 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: but we know that, let's say eighty percent to ninety 158 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: percent of the reduction of prescription drug prices comes from 159 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: when a drug goes from a name brand pharmaceuticalceutical to 160 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: being available as a generic. I'm sure, there are a 161 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: lot of you out there who are part of no 162 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: Vartis or a part of whatever the various healthcare companies 163 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: that are here in the Indian Aptis area or that 164 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: are around throughout the Tony Katz listening area. This is 165 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: why so many of the name brand pharmaceutical companies have 166 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: moved into the generic side of things. We're also now 167 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: at a point where the first biologics are are coming 168 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: to the end of their patent protections and folks are 169 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: going to be able to offer companies are going to 170 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 1: be able to offer the generic form of these biologics 171 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: called biosimilars. Just filed comments yesterday on the issue of 172 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: making over last week making sure that biosimilars are protected. 173 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: But what we don't want to do is engage in 174 00:10:55,160 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: price controls that drive down the incentive to innovate. That's 175 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: the problem. We have to maintain a circumstance in which 176 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: the incentive to innovate is it continues to be encouraged. 177 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: We're gonna come back to this. We're gonna hear from 178 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: Rick Scott on this as well. I'm Andrew Langer, this 179 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: is Tony Katz today. Hell, hey, everybody, I am Andrew 180 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: Langer in for Tony Katz. Today, you're gonna be joining 181 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: a couple of minutes by Jerry Rodgers, the editor of 182 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: Real Clear Policy and Real Clear Health, going to be 183 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: talking about a bunch of stuff, what's going on in 184 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: the world, healthcare reform, etc. Because we got a possibly 185 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: a reconciliation package coming up, and so you know, the 186 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: President offers up this healthcare plan and some of it 187 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: is good, but you know, at the end of the day, 188 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: until we're going to get at this issue of the supply, 189 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: we got a real problem. Here is Rick Scott. Now, 190 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: Rick Scott is a doctor. He's a member of the 191 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: US Senate from Florida. Here he is talking about his 192 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: thoughts on the President's plants play Cut twenty seven. 193 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 3: I've been working on health care and getting health care 194 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 3: costs down my business career, and since I've been as 195 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 3: governor and in the Senate. What the President's put out 196 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 3: is the way we're going to get health care costs down. 197 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 3: So we can always continue to say, oh, we're going 198 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 3: to subsidize everybody, which is what the COVID subsidies did, 199 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 3: or we can say, let's drive down the cost of 200 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 3: health care that's what the President wants to do. I 201 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 3: have a build that's going to do that. You let 202 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,559 Speaker 3: you don't direct them mind to insurance companies, you give 203 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 3: it to the individual. We need to help people. I 204 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 3: grew up in a family that didn't have health care. 205 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 3: I remember when my mom couldn't get health care for 206 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 3: my little brother had a disease. I want people to 207 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 3: get health care. Let people buy their own health care 208 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 3: if we're going to support them, which we need to 209 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 3: help some. Give them the cash in an account, they 210 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 3: can buy insurance, they can pay copains, inductibles and go 211 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 3: buy health care directly, and let them buy what they 212 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 3: want to buy, and make sure people they know exactly 213 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 3: what things cost. That's what the President's trying to get done. 214 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 3: I believe eventually we'll all come together and say we've 215 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 3: got to drive health care costs down. That's what this does. 216 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: Let's keep in mind that the Affordable Care Act was 217 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: essentially a big buy off for big insurance. There was 218 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: a deal that was struck, and big insurance knew that 219 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: so long as Democrats were in charge, that they were 220 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: going to work towards towards essentially getting rid of privatized 221 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: health insurance, and so they were bought off in the interim. 222 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 4: Right. 223 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: Listen, if you understand anything about communism and socialism, and 224 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: I'm someone who has a degree in Soviet studies, my 225 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: undergraduate degrees in this, you know that that socialism is 226 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: the transitional phase between capitalism and communism. Right, Eventually it's 227 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: leading towards communism. That's the that's classic marks, classic marks 228 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: and angles, et cetera, et cetera. Well, you can also 229 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: say that the Obamacare insurance exchanges were the where the 230 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: transitional phase between a truly free market or one point 231 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: a truly free market healthcare system, or part of the 232 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: transitional phase between a free market health care system and 233 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: or socialized health insurance. Right, and so in the interim 234 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: they were going to get huge amounts of money. And 235 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: you know, that's why they have lobbied so hard for 236 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: these kinds of subsidies and to make sure that the 237 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: Obamacare subsidies were at work. But none of the things 238 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: that actually would drive down consumer costs, namely supply and 239 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: issues of efficiency and transparent price, transparency and competition, none 240 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: of those things were at work in Obamacare. In fact, 241 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: you know, before Obamacare passed, I used to talk about 242 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: this about the issue of the only areas in which 243 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: you saw healthcare costs go down were in those areas 244 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: in which consumers were paying the market cost for a 245 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: good or service. The example I like to use was 246 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: a laser eye surgery, laser surgery. Right, for the longest time, 247 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: lasik surgery wasn't covered by insurance. Now you could save 248 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: up for it and do it under a health savings 249 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: account or a flex spending account, but you had to 250 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: buy it on the marketplace. And what happened is there 251 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: was competition, Various providers got the equipment, there were improvements 252 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: in the equipment, and the price came down and the 253 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: service got better. And rather than apply those kinds of 254 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: ideas to healthcare generally, we moved in the wrong direction 255 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: with Obamacare, which was all about again creating this transitional phase, 256 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: getting people into insurance and not care. This is part 257 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: of the reason why the Affordable Care Act specifically issued 258 00:15:52,040 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: ESCHEWD issued or discriminated against health savings accounts hsas right, 259 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: because the best way to do this, the best way 260 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: to do a healthcare system, frankly, is to have people 261 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: have a combination of a health savings account, right. Imagine 262 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: if folks taking the money that they were spending being 263 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: forced to spend by the way on Obamacare, or the 264 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: subsidy money that they would be getting from the government 265 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: on their health insurance and putting that into an interest 266 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: bearing health savings account or a tax free or a 267 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: tax deferred health savings account, and then paying for a 268 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: high deductible health insurance in the traditional sense of insurance. 269 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: What do I mean by that? I mean, like with 270 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: your car or your homeowner's insurance. You don't use your 271 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: car insurance to pay for your routine maintenance on your car, 272 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: oil changes, tune ups, and things like that. You use 273 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: it for when you have an actual accident of some 274 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: kind of an emergency. That's what It's the same thing 275 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: with your health insurance. You get health insurance that only 276 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: kicks in with a high deductible when you have some 277 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: kind of a medical emergency. Right, So you're saving, saving, 278 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: saving saving. You go down that road and for everything else, 279 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: whether it's your prescription drugs, which you can find other 280 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: ways to reduce the cost for, or your annual checkups 281 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: with your primary care physician, all of those things will 282 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: be covered in that way. What I appreciate about this 283 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: idea of giving people the money instead of insurance companies 284 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: that it then forces a great deal of additional efficiencies 285 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: in ways that health insurance companies don't have, especially if 286 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: they're insurance companies that are owning hospital systems and there's 287 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: no incentive to reduce costs. It's a huge problem out there. 288 00:17:58,119 --> 00:17:58,239 Speaker 5: Now. 289 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: Again, I'm not saying right that that you know, you 290 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: go into an emergency room, you're not going to have 291 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: the time or the effort to go and and and 292 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: and comparison shop. It's not what we're talking about here. 293 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: That's why you have high deductible health insurance. But you know, 294 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:20,959 Speaker 1: in terms of figuring out where you want to go 295 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: for your medical care, you know, your your annual checkup here, 296 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: you visit to the dermatologists for a review there as 297 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 1: I'm coming up with, right, that would be that would 298 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: be the way to do it. Yes, some things are 299 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: going to get help by this, But the bottom line here, 300 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: this is something I've been saying for a while, is 301 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: we don't have enough doctors, nurses and physicians assistants to 302 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: go around. And if we really wanted to reduce the 303 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: cost of basic primary care, we should have been producing 304 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: as many of these kinds of physicians, as many of 305 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: these kinds of medical providers as possible starting fifteen years ago, 306 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: and then dealing with things like certificates of need and 307 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: the ability to practice medicine across state lines, and telemedicine 308 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: and encouraging telemedicine. Now we're going to get into this 309 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: with Jerry Rodgers. He is the editor of Real Clear Policy, 310 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: Real Clear Health. He's also my best buddy at Jerry 311 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: Rodgers Show on Twitter. If you want to go and 312 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: check him out. I'm Andrew Langer. You can find me 313 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: at Andrew Underscore Langer on Twitter and x new episodes 314 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: in the Federal News Wire Lunch Hour out my new 315 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: blog on regulatory issues. But this, of course is Tony 316 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 1: Katz Today. Clearly Landon is rocking with me today. Meet 317 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: the new boss, same as the old boss, as the 318 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: Who's bunkin full ten comes. I talked about this earlier. 319 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 4: He's going to. 320 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: By the way, you can check out all episodes of 321 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 1: Tony Katz that I available online. Go and check those 322 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: out for whatever you've missed. I'm Andrew Langer in for 323 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: Tony Today. Joining me right now is my good buddy. 324 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: He's my best budd His name is Jerry Rogers. He's 325 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: the editor of Real Clear Policy, the editor of Real 326 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: Clear Health. He likes the Who, but he prefers led Zeppelin. Jerry, 327 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: did you ever see any of those laser Zeppelin Laser 328 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: Floyd shows. 329 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 5: No. When I was a kid, Uh, that was the 330 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 5: big thing to go to go see that. I actually 331 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 5: taught Jimmy Page with the firm at the Brendan Burn Arenas, 332 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 5: so that was better than any laser show. And of 333 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 5: course there were lasers during that because you know, Page 334 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 5: would would do his thing with the violin bo and 335 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 5: and all that sort of thing. 336 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 4: So I got to see j Page. I've seen Robert 337 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 4: playing a couple of times too. You know. 338 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: It's it's funny thinking. You know, Jerry knows this. I 339 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: went and had this epic trip to uh North Wales 340 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: last year and I want to I want to go back. 341 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: And my wife is like, well, what do you want 342 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: to what do you want to say? 343 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 5: What? 344 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: You know we see the same things all over again. No, 345 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: I'm like, we got to go to and I've got 346 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: to butcher the name Bronier Hour or Bronner Hour, which 347 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: is the cottage in North Wales that Jimmy Page and 348 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: Robert Plant went to. 349 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 4: And of course the song black Dog was reported there. 350 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 4: Why you know why. 351 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: Because there was a black dog that they heard. 352 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, that's exactly right. Because one day during recording 353 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 4: a black dog showed up. How cool was that? 354 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: Yes, very very cool. 355 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 4: If you do do this Andrew not to again belabor this, 356 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 4: but they. 357 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 5: Set John Bonham's drums up in the vestibule in the 358 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 5: hallway in the center. 359 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 4: Of the house. 360 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 5: Wow, a very unique sound. I mean, these guys were 361 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 5: masterclass at what they did. 362 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: Absolutely one hundred percent. Not what I wanted to bring 363 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: you on to talk about, Jerry, but but we'd go 364 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: down that rabbit hole. So you and I had a conversation, 365 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: very brief conversation over the weekend about the President's healthcare plan. 366 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: I had asked you if there was any reference of 367 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: pharmacy benefits managers. Turns out there are. What do you 368 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: make of What do you make of what the president 369 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: proposed last week? We just heard from Marty McCarry, We 370 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: just heard from Rick Scott. Your thoughts on this and 371 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: what needs to happen with congressional legislation to make this 372 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 1: stuff permanent. 373 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 4: Well, I'll say two things. 374 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 5: Number one, Reason of all places have written approvingly of 375 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 5: the President's plan, and so Reason Yes, Reason has a 376 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 5: piece out today. 377 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 4: Go to Rickular Policy. 378 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 5: It's linked there. 379 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 4: They say, there's a lot of good stuff in this plan. 380 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 5: I would agree if it's going to address healthcare cost, 381 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 5: healthcare access in real ways, not the fake phony lies 382 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 5: we're getting from Chuck Schumer and a Keem Jeffries in 383 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 5: the mainstream media about Obamacare subsidies. 384 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 4: Enhance the subsidies. 385 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 5: Look, we have to address the costs and access. And 386 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 5: the President I disagree with some stuff. I like some 387 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 5: stuff dealing with the PBM middle man. 388 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 4: I think that's good. 389 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 5: Any kind of price steading, of course the most favored 390 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 5: nation of price issue. 391 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 4: These things bother me. 392 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 5: But no one can say now that the GOP doesn't 393 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 5: have a healthcare plan. They do, and it's superior to 394 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 5: what the Democrats have been putting forward since Obamacare. 395 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: Right, I mean, there are things that we need to 396 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: get at. And obviously, right Obamacare was really, at the 397 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: end of the day about a big buyout for insurance. 398 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: But this is it's a step. Right. But then obviously 399 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff is going to get done 400 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: by the administration, but Congress has to work to make 401 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: it permanent, doesn't it, Jerry. 402 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 5: They do, And you know what, in Congress is moving 403 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,959 Speaker 5: forward with a healthcare package as we speak. 404 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 4: In fact, the Hill and Politico and some of the 405 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 4: DC based left. 406 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 5: Of center outlets have said that regardless of the subsidy issue, 407 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 5: regardless of how the Congress goes on re upping the AC, 408 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 5: the ACA, the Obamacare subsidies, a healthcare package is moving forward. 409 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 5: And parts of the President's package are already included, like 410 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 5: PBM reform that's in there, and so we should see 411 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 5: over the next several weeks a very positive healthcare plan 412 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 5: moving forward. One thing about the President's plan which I like, 413 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 5: and I read this in the top points, not in 414 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 5: the plane itself, but just against the top points. 415 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,119 Speaker 4: To it, is that instead of sending any kind. 416 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 5: Of subsidies or resources are cashed to insurance companies, any 417 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 5: kind of resource should go back to the patient and 418 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 5: again patient centric care, access the care, and dealing with 419 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 5: the cost of care. I think this is a good plan. 420 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 5: And look, I want to say to our conservative friends. 421 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 5: I know vaccine is very controversial these days. But the 422 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 5: fact of the matter is, if we get vaccine compliance right, 423 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,479 Speaker 5: if you get your pneumonia vaccine, if you get other vaccines, well, 424 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 5: then guess what, you don't drop out of the workforce. 425 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 5: It allows small businesses to plan and invest. And I 426 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 5: think if everyone, even the MAHA movement, make America healthy again, 427 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 5: American workers are healthy, that is good news for small 428 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 5: businesses and startup firms. That means more economic move So 429 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 5: healthcare and economic growth go hand in hand. 430 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: Let me add to this, Jerry, and again we're talking 431 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: to Jerry Rogers, the editor of Real Clear Policy, Real 432 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 1: Clear Health. You know, the Biden administration led in millions 433 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: upon millions of undocumented individuals, many of whom were not vaccinated. 434 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: And if you want to defend yourself against the threats 435 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: that have been brought in by undocumented I'm sorry, unvaccinated 436 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: undocumented people who are here illegally, you got to go 437 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: out and get yourself vaccinated to make sure and make 438 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: sure your kids are vaccinated to deal with that, I understand. 439 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 5: And also, yeah, for our friends on the left Andrew, 440 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 5: for our friends on the left, not only do we 441 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 5: let in undocumented migrants who were not vaccinated, but we 442 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 5: also put them on. And again, what the Democrats say 443 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 5: here is just flatly false. Look at California, look at 444 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 5: other states. They went on the medicaid rolls, which put 445 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 5: a strain on the medicaid system. 446 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 4: And the entitlement system. 447 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 5: If we're going to get healthcare right, we have to 448 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 5: get we have to get the illegal immigration issue right. 449 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: Yeah. So let me ask you this man, because you 450 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: and I haven't had this conversation on the air, what 451 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: do you make of what's going on on the ground 452 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: in Minneapolis. We had John Justice on earlier, Our friend 453 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: John Justice, who's watching all of this stuff unfold. I mean, 454 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: this is this is crazy. Don lemon In citing mob 455 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: activity there. This is not going to end well, is it? 456 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 4: Well? No, of course not. 457 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 5: And the fact of the matter is we have chaos 458 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 5: and violence on the ground because politicians are saying things 459 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 5: that are wrong. My goodness, you just had on you 460 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 5: know who's the old boss name as the new boss. 461 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 5: Bruce Springsteen over the weekend was at a concert in 462 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 5: Red Bank, New Jersey, and said, ice, get the f out. 463 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 5: You know, he's privileged, he doesn't understand what's happening. Let 464 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 5: me be very clear about this, and at Jerry Rogers 465 00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 5: show my Twitter page, you can go and find this. 466 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 4: I name names. 467 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 5: These folks in Minnesota are going after the worst of 468 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 5: the worst. These are convicted again, pardon the language. These 469 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 5: are convicted child rapists, These are murderers, These are violent criminals. 470 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 5: And I don't understand why normies would be outside trying 471 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 5: to interfere with the resting the worst of the worst. 472 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 5: Christian knows. The secretary of the DHS was on the 473 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 5: Sunday Shows yesterday and she said, in Minnesota, seventy percent 474 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 5: seven zero percent of those arrested detained are convicted and 475 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 5: or violent, a violent criminal charges penning against them. This 476 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 5: is a huge operation to get rid of the most violent. 477 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 5: And remember the reason why because Minnesota won't let ice 478 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 5: into the jails to get these folks, so they're forced 479 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 5: to go into the communities. If the sanctuary jurisdictions would 480 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 5: allow ice to go into the jails, we wouldn't have 481 00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 5: any of this chaos. 482 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: And this is what's going to be coming to Virginia 483 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: and other states as they adopt this. Jerry, how do 484 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: folks find out more about the good work you're doing 485 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: at a real Clear Policy, the Real Clear family of websites. 486 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 5: Well, just again, go to Real Clear Politics, go to 487 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 5: Real Clear Policy, Real Clear Health. All the work is 488 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 5: right there. And again it's one of the last places 489 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 5: in our public discussions where you can hear both sides 490 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 5: of the. 491 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 4: Debate give their best arguments. 492 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: And Jerry's not going to it, but the Real Clear 493 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: family is doing their some Dot Awards down and Florida. 494 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 4: What I am going. I've changed my mind. I'm going 495 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 4: to I'm going to go to. 496 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 5: Palm Beach for the Samastat Award to honor those and 497 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 5: Charlie Kirks being honored this year. 498 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: You know, Jerry, you know you need to swing your 499 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: dinner invitation for your best buddy because I'll down for that. 500 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 5: Let's let's let's let's let's talk about that when you're 501 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 5: off off Mike my friend. 502 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: All right, man, listen, you take care. I'll talk to 503 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: you later on. That was Jerry Rodgers, the editor of 504 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,479 Speaker 1: Real Clear Policy, Real Clear Health. Literally, he's my best buddy. 505 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: My kids, my kids do an impression of me whenever 506 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: the phone rings and he's in the car. Hello Gerald, 507 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: of course, Big Jerald, Gerald is his dad. Listen, some 508 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: final thoughts are gonna be talking about Martin Luther King 509 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 1: in a moment. I'm Andrew Langer, this is Tony Kats today. Well, 510 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: welcome back, everybody. I am Andrew Langer and for Tony Katz, 511 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: and obviously today is today is Martin Luther King Day, 512 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: and it's the commemoration of the life of a truly 513 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: great American. And we would be remiss if we didn't 514 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: say something about this. I had the fortune a couple 515 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: of years ago to meet Alvita King, who is Martin 516 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: Luther King Junior's niece. We were at an event in 517 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: Maryland together. I think I interviewed her at the time. 518 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: I've seen her a couple of times since then, but 519 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: you know, she was talking today about her uncle's legacy. 520 00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: Let's go Aheadland and play cut number thirty. 521 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 6: That Reverend doctor Martin Luther King Junior was a servant. 522 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 6: He loved God and he served humanity. And what we're 523 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 6: saying is this is a man who wasn't perfect, served 524 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 6: a perfect God and tried to help somebody. So that's 525 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 6: the way I actually remember my uncle, someone who tried 526 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 6: to help somebody. 527 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting as as I listened to that. 528 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: One of the big issues for me is the issue 529 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: of servant leadership. You know, you hear that. I'm reluctant 530 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: to play it again, but I think we should. Let's 531 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: go ahead, Linda, play cut number nine again real quick. 532 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: This is this, This is this leftist at this church 533 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: that they that the left invaded yesterday. Go ahead and 534 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: played nine. 535 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 7: As you can see, all these pretend Christians, all these 536 00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 7: comfortable white people who are living lives, comfortable lives old 537 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 7: and are dragged into concentration camps. 538 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: You're living real life, nice lives and. 539 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 7: Your lattes, doing absolutely nothing for your Latino and Somali 540 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 7: brothers and sisters. 541 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 4: You come here to a man wearing a suit. 542 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: We can visit anything that there. I mean, you know, 543 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: this is it is amazing sort of how this outlook 544 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: translates itself, how it shows itself, you know, the the 545 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: opposite of sort of servant leadership putting yourself forward, don Lemon, 546 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: you know, going and doing these things. You know, you 547 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: you bring people in. And I learned this, you know, 548 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: from a pastor at a church that I went to, 549 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,719 Speaker 1: who never set himself above the congregation. It was very 550 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: very important there. But let's hear some words from the 551 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: man himself. This is the famous I have a dream speech, 552 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: or a portion of it. Let's go ahead and play 553 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: cut thirty one. 554 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 8: Agreed. 555 00:31:54,920 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 9: But one day this nation will rise up, live out 556 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 9: the true meeting of its creed. 557 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: We hold these Jews to be. 558 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 9: Self evident, that all men are created us. 559 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 8: I have a dream that one day, on the reviews 560 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 8: of the job, sons of former slaves and the sons 561 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 8: of former slave on will be able to sit down. 562 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 9: Together at the table of brotherhood. 563 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 10: I have a dream one day even the state of Mississippi, 564 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 10: sweltering with the people injustice, sweltering. 565 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 9: With the heat of a pressure, will. 566 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 10: Be transformed into an oasis. 567 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 9: Of freedom and justice. 568 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: I have a dream my. 569 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 8: Poor little children. 570 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 10: One day live in a nation where they will not 571 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 10: be judged by. 572 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 9: The color of math skin, but by the content of 573 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 9: that character. 574 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: I have a dream, and we can end that there. 575 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: You know, it's it is interesting to me because I 576 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: think I've told you all. I went to a very 577 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: left leaning high school in New York, and you know 578 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: watched obviously I say this. I was born in nineteen 579 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: seventy one, so I was born after doctor King was assassinated. 580 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: But obviously, you know, in my formative early years, you know, 581 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: learned about him, listened to his speeches. Was in a 582 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: public school system first that was very big on making 583 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: sure that kids of disparate backgrounds are brought together, and 584 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: we're taught this idea of judging people by the content 585 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: of their character, not the color of their skin. And 586 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: I think we were at a moment in the United 587 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: States when that was you know, that was possible, that 588 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 1: was actually happening. You know, I talked early on in 589 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: the show about the grifter class and the folks who 590 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: want to make sure that we don't solve problems in 591 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 1: America because they make money off of us being conflicted 592 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: with one another. And I know that sounds like a 593 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory, it isn't. There are folks who groove on 594 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: and make huge sums of money on keeping Americans turned 595 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: against one another. So an opportunity for Americans to actually 596 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,959 Speaker 1: live together in harmony, in an environment in which people 597 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: are not judged by the color of their skin, but 598 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,919 Speaker 1: by the content of their character. There are some people 599 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: who absolutely cannot sit idly by and watch that happen, 600 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: you know, So as I look to what's happening in 601 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: Minneapolis and elsewhere in America. Maybe we take a step 602 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: back from the abyss and we recognize what has brought 603 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: us to this moment and why folks want to keep 604 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: Americans divided, and what it means for a divided American, 605 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: divided America to continue to be divided. I think we 606 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: should think about this is what we ought to be 607 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: thinking about on Martin Luther King Day. Listen. As I've said, 608 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: you can check me out Andrew at Andrew Underscore Langer 609 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 1: on Twitter. Find out everything that I'm up to, the 610 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: Lunch Hour podcast, all of my writing. I think I'm 611 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: going to be back the week after next. Very excited 612 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,479 Speaker 1: to do that. But I'm Andrew Langer. Oh, thank you, Land, 613 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 1: and thank you to the team on Tony Katz today. 614 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: Have a great night, everybody, Stay safe.