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Speaker 1: My name is Nigel Jason Hammer. Right over there with

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Speaker 1: a very special Linn studio guests.

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Speaker 2: City County Council Member Michael Paul Hart joins us. Every

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Speaker 2: once in a while we bring MPH in here to

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Speaker 2: kind of catch us up to date on things happening

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Speaker 2: here in Indy. We've been spending most of the afternoon

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Speaker 2: counting down until eight pm. We're still going to do

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Speaker 2: that to see if anything happens with the United States

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Speaker 2: and Iran and Trump and Iran.

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Speaker 3: But it's Bridge Day. It is, it's our grid day.

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Speaker 2: Civilization may die tonight, according to the President. But we

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Speaker 2: also want to keep you up to date on things

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Speaker 2: happening here in Indy. And this is why we like

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Speaker 2: having Michael Paul Hart the councilor in studio with us.

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Speaker 2: Before we get into any of the issues that were

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Speaker 2: brought up at last night's meeting, we've got a little

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Speaker 2: drama with a couple of your council members. Let's start

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Speaker 2: with council Member Ron Gibson. He is a Democrat who voted,

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Speaker 2: i believe a week or two ago in favor of

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Speaker 2: the data center coming to his district. A couple of

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Speaker 2: days ago, he wakes up there's gunshots and bullet holes

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Speaker 2: in his house, and apparently there was some sort of

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Speaker 2: note talking about the data centers.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, yes, is you know as wild as someone who's

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Speaker 4: had a data center proposal in the district. You know,

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Speaker 4: I had one that I spent nine months on and ultimately,

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Speaker 4: I mean I wasn't supportive of it, but I mean

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Speaker 4: to have the fear that your house is going to

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Speaker 4: get shot up over a decision that you make, and

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Speaker 4: a lot of the times we're not making decisions like

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Speaker 4: in this case, Ron he didn't have a vote on anything.

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Speaker 4: It was a development commission that didn't Now he was

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Speaker 4: vocally supportive of the development. Yeah, but to get your

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Speaker 4: house shot for it. You know, councilor Bane, another counselor

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Speaker 4: on the southeast side or is the southwest side of

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Speaker 4: Indianapolis had a data center that just passed too. And

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Speaker 4: I mean he was getting all sorts of he was

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Speaker 4: getting bomb threats at his house, and I don't know

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Speaker 4: that that kind of stuff made the news, but there's

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Speaker 4: a lot of crazy activity in this one for the

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Speaker 4: data centers.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, over data centers.

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Speaker 2: Feels like this is kind of a cord d thing

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Speaker 2: then of like more than one council member is getting

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Speaker 2: threats over data centers. This feels to me anyway, like

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Speaker 2: some sort of coordinated deal.

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Speaker 4: You do see a lot of the same people that

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Speaker 4: are out there protesting, whether it's where you know, in

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Speaker 4: Ron's cases was Martin Dell Brightwood. In Josh's case it

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Speaker 4: was down Indicators. So I mean too far different areas,

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Speaker 4: but you see some of the same people showing up

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Speaker 4: to these protests.

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Speaker 1: Remind people what the data centers are and why these

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Speaker 1: are a big deal, why they want to move into

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Speaker 1: our area.

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Speaker 4: So there's a wide array of different types of data

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Speaker 4: centers too, right, And so when I had like a

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Speaker 4: Google one coming in that was called a hyperscaler, which

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Speaker 4: is the biggest, most power draining and type of data

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Speaker 4: center that you could see. Why they're attracted to Indianapolis

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Speaker 4: is because we have good power, we have good fiber networks,

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Speaker 4: and we have people and we have the infrastructure to

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Speaker 4: get them here and work those things. But you also

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Speaker 4: have other kinds of data centers on the far end

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Speaker 4: of the spectrum. They are a little bit more boring,

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Speaker 4: just operational in nature that.

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Speaker 1: They just full servers and AI and things like that.

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Speaker 5: They are.

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Speaker 4: It's all servers and switches and it keeps the Internet going.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's but the pushback is they take so

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Speaker 2: many resources to function, right.

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Speaker 5: Depends on that.

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Speaker 4: That's where it depends on the type of data center

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Speaker 4: these hyperscalers. Yes, but there's already thirty different types of

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Speaker 4: data centers in Marion County that people don't know about

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Speaker 4: that aren't really eating up.

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Speaker 3: That much operating now.

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Speaker 5: Yes today, yeah, and have been for years.

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Speaker 2: But these big, massive ones that have gotten the headlines

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Speaker 2: that want to take all the water from the reservoirs

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Speaker 2: and the rivers, and they promise, you know, oh, one

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Speaker 2: hundred jobs, but is it really and how long are

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Speaker 2: they going to be there?

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Speaker 3: I mean the governor came in.

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Speaker 2: Here last week and basically stated this is one of

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Speaker 2: the hot topics in Indiana.

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Speaker 4: It certainly is, and you know, the state has done

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Speaker 4: a lot on the tax abatement side of it. So

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Speaker 4: really for us locally, there's not a whole lot of

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Speaker 4: meat left on the bone to take those dollars and

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Speaker 4: put the public service that you would see on a

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Speaker 4: traditional manufacturing or the type of business that comes in.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, on the power side, it does take a

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Speaker 4: considerable amount of power consumption.

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Speaker 5: And then a lot of these buildings sometimes are.

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Speaker 4: Just massive structures right in the middle of neighborhoods, and

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Speaker 4: that's really getting under people's skin too, as well as

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Speaker 4: any environmental consert because there's a lot of diesel fuel

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Speaker 4: because there's a lot of generators for backup power at

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Speaker 4: these sites, and that gives a lot of people out

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Speaker 4: of cons.

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Speaker 1: And then the water too, keeps these servers cool, and

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Speaker 1: that's a big deal of where the water's coming from.

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Speaker 3: Do I head that right?

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Speaker 5: Is that?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: And no? And so there's an open loop and a

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Speaker 4: closed loop system. You know, when I was dealing with

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Speaker 4: mine down in Franklin Township, it was an open loop,

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Speaker 4: so they were going to use a million gallons of

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Speaker 4: day per sight. But in some of these newer design

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Speaker 4: configurations they're closed loop, so they actually use more water

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Speaker 4: in the facilities to use the bathrooms than they do

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Speaker 4: to actually cool the data centers.

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Speaker 2: And then the other council member, and we brought this

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Speaker 2: up earlier in the program because he's still talking about it,

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Speaker 2: the Socialists Communist member Jesse Brown, and I'm paraphrasing here,

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Speaker 2: is basically claiming that he got touched on the shoulder

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Speaker 2: by a police officer, but his version and his video

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Speaker 2: says it was a roadhouse style fight featuring Patrick Swayze.

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Speaker 2: Do I have do I have this correct counselor yeah?

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Speaker 3: This is the night of the Final four?

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: They were downtown for a protest and it was a

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Speaker 2: ridiculously dumb protest and an officer who was doing traffic

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Speaker 2: patrol was trying to tell these guys you can't block

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Speaker 2: the sidewalk. They couldn't hear because they're yelling at people

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Speaker 2: through a bullhorn and the microphone. So the tap shoulder,

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Speaker 2: you know, tap, you know, an elbow, tell these guys

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Speaker 2: to move next thing. You know, It's like Rodney Dangerfield

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Speaker 2: and Caddyshack.

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Speaker 3: My arm.

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Speaker 2: I think it's broken because they're all anti police.

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Speaker 5: And so here's what's crazy to me.

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Speaker 4: You know, when I think we have the national stage

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Speaker 4: right now, or we have the national stage, I.

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Speaker 5: Want to see this more often.

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Speaker 4: I want to see it every single year, and I

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Speaker 4: want Indianapolis to less crazy. When we've got all these

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Speaker 4: people here, and here we have one of our elected

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Speaker 4: officials out there doing everything that you just described. We

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Speaker 4: shouldn't be giving people a reason and excuse to say

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Speaker 4: what is going on with the people of Indianapolis Because

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Speaker 4: our own elected officials are out there protesting who in

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Speaker 4: the airlines.

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Speaker 5: That are being used by basketball teams.

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Speaker 2: Right when the NCAA headquarters and that can't stress this enough,

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Speaker 2: are literally just a couple of blocks down. The people

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Speaker 2: you need to speak with would be a couple of

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Speaker 2: blocks down, not a family of Illinois fans walking into

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Speaker 2: the stadium.

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Speaker 4: No, they had no cares about what they had to say.

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Speaker 5: You know, I with you guys. I think it was

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Speaker 5: an attention attempt. I mean he got the attention.

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Speaker 2: Good for him, right the scoreboard, he got the attention,

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Speaker 2: But like is that always good? Like Jerry Sandusky at

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Speaker 2: Penn State, Jarrett from Subway got attention, But I don't

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Speaker 2: think it's the attention.

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Speaker 3: That they wanted. In this case.

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Speaker 2: You've got this council member, an elected official, getting attention

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Speaker 2: for a ridiculously stupid protest where everybody can watch the

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Speaker 2: video and see that he's full of crap.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, we were in here last month.

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Speaker 4: When I was in here, we were talking about him

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Speaker 4: and something foolish that he did online. I think he

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Speaker 4: was you know, calling for he had America to lose

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Speaker 4: the war.

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Speaker 5: I think in Iran is what he said.

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Speaker 4: We're talking about that, and I mean like it's these

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Speaker 4: types of examples to me that said.

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Speaker 5: A bad tone for what a counselor is.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I say it all the time. We're supposed

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Speaker 4: to be operational. Make sure we have police, right, we're

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Speaker 4: down on police. We got to make sure the water's

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Speaker 4: drained and the trash is being taken out, the roads

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Speaker 4: are paved, and the potholes are filled. If you want

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Speaker 4: to protest anything, protest Joe hawk Set that your potholes

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Speaker 4: aren't filled. Don't protest the NCAA. Probably they get players here.

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Speaker 2: And look, Jesse is an easy target, and I think

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Speaker 2: he embraces that role.

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Speaker 3: And I'm really not even trying.

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Speaker 2: To beat up on him because in a weird way,

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Speaker 2: I respect the fact that he's an independent thinker doesn't

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Speaker 2: care what anybody else thinks. He was one of the

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Speaker 2: only Democrats that had the stones to call Joe hawk

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Speaker 2: Set are and for that I'll tip my hat to them.

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Speaker 2: But this whole situation, it was a stupid protest. And

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Speaker 2: everybody can watch the video and see.

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Speaker 3: Nothing happened there.

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Speaker 2: Right, we're speaking with Michael Paul Hart City County Council member.

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Speaker 3: All right, so let's get.

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Speaker 2: Into some issues that took place at the council meeting

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Speaker 2: last night. Man, we haven't talked about this in a while,

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Speaker 2: but there still is a police shortage, shortage of officers

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Speaker 2: in Indianapolis. And even though the chief of police has changed,

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Speaker 2: the crime numbers seem like they're trending in the right direction,

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Speaker 2: it's not getting any better.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 4: And so we recently did have a new chief come

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Speaker 4: in and I got to sit down with her. I

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Speaker 4: think it was maybe two or three weeks ago, and

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Speaker 4: top of my priority list was just that it was

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Speaker 4: what are we going to do for recruiting? And I've

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Speaker 4: been out looking at other cities what they've been trying

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Speaker 4: to do. City of Fort Worth had an amazing statistic

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Speaker 4: when they had a new police chief come in. They

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Speaker 4: did essentially like a back to police promotional and campaign

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Speaker 4: all the way from the mayor's office through other elected

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Speaker 4: and city leaders.

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Speaker 2: But it takes the mayor to buy in, it does,

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Speaker 2: it does, But they received three thousand applications for people

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Speaker 2: to join their police force.

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Speaker 5: And it's about similar sizes.

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Speaker 4: Ours about you know, we need eighteen eighteen hundred officers

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Speaker 4: or so, and they're about the same. And they I mean,

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Speaker 4: they had a surplus of applications with Indy's.

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Speaker 2: It's odd because on one hand, Joe Hawks said, will

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Speaker 2: give the money to the police, like say what you want.

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Speaker 2: Joe does give the money to the police. But the

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Speaker 2: minutes something gets squirrely, he will throw them under the

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Speaker 2: bus faster than you can blink an eye.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, so we've got a retention problem

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Speaker 4: and we have a recruitment problem. So we're losing about

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Speaker 4: sixty officers a year just due to lack of retention.

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Speaker 4: So whether it be they're going to a different police force,

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Speaker 4: you know in and around Indianapolis, or the retiring and

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Speaker 4: then we're not getting them back in the recruitment phase

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Speaker 4: with new officers. And so, I mean we are short

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Speaker 4: three hundred and eighty officers right now. We budget for

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Speaker 4: the eighteen hundred and we're in like thirteen eighty.

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Speaker 1: Man, that number I feel like has been hovering around

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Speaker 1: for months, if not a couple of years. That three

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Speaker 1: hundred and eighty number, and the fact that I believe

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Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. Counselor IMPD is the highest

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Speaker 1: paid police force in the state.

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Speaker 5: For years, Oh, I mean years.

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Speaker 4: I mean I'm in my seventh year on the council,

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Speaker 4: and every year i've been here, we've had this conversation,

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Speaker 4: and every year we've been on the council, we've looked

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Speaker 4: to add new recruitment measures, sign on bonuses, you know,

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Speaker 4: raising the salary the first year, the fifth year. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's it is the best you could get. It's it's morale, right,

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Speaker 4: I mean, you've got morale this city, this leadership, or

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Speaker 4: you can go to Johnson County, Hancock County, you know,

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Speaker 4: go all.

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Speaker 5: The way around us.

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Speaker 4: It's gonna be a little bit easier and your leadership

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Speaker 4: is going to be a lot different.

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Speaker 2: Do you think the prosecutor matters? Because I feel like,

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Speaker 2: if I'm a veteran police officer and let's say I'm

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Speaker 2: working at Beech Grove or Carmel or one of these

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Speaker 2: police departments, why would I think about going to IMPD

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Speaker 2: when I'm going to have to arrest the same violent,

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Speaker 2: repeat offender over and over again because this prosecutor always

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Speaker 2: lets them out of jail.

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Speaker 4: I think it's absolutely a piece of it, right, I mean,

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Speaker 4: I mean we have an opportunity again this year, right,

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Speaker 4: We've got prosecutor races this year.

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Speaker 5: But that's certainly a case.

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Speaker 4: It's frustrating, right when those guys are doing the same

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Speaker 4: thing over and over again. Go look at you know,

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Speaker 4: Luger Plaza downtown. I mean, there is a report out

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Speaker 4: not too long ago about how the frequency of how

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Speaker 4: that often they arrest those folks and they just turn around.

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Speaker 4: I mean, the district commanders are airing their frustration, but

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Speaker 4: it's not being heard a.

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Speaker 3: Man bummer about the YMCA on your side of town.

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Speaker 3: That sucks. I hate that.

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Speaker 4: It is.

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Speaker 3: I hate that.

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Speaker 4: And I was up in Lawrence talking to some leaders

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Speaker 4: up there the other day just you know, looking at identity,

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Speaker 4: just talking because I love Indianapolis because every township has

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Speaker 4: a unique identity, and that we were talking about their

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Speaker 4: Fort Ben YMCA, and it's like every part of town

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Speaker 4: needs to have one.

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Speaker 5: And now we're just invisible.

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Speaker 1: Wait over here on we were talking about the last

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Speaker 1: time you were in here, that was it was a.

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Speaker 3: Big part of a lot of people's lives.

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Speaker 2: Matt Behar was very passionate about that YMCA and a

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Speaker 2: lot of people were. I mean, news outlets were covering

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Speaker 2: this story, but unfortunately it just wasn't enough to save it.

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Speaker 5: Right, you want a reason to protest, there's a reason

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Speaker 5: right there.

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Speaker 2: Right, last thing here before we let you go. I

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Speaker 2: know we're running a little bit long, but the new

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Speaker 2: public safety curfew hours. We had a big event, we

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Speaker 2: hosted the Final four this past weekend. Feels like everything

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Speaker 2: went off without a hitch other than some idiot council

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Speaker 2: members that are, you know, being a pain in the

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Speaker 2: ass outside the stadium. But from a crime perspective, seems

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Speaker 2: like everything was okay. Are these curfew hours working? Are

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Speaker 2: they being enforced?

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Speaker 4: So you know, I brought this up because I seen

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Speaker 4: it come in the agenda last night. So this is

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Speaker 4: an option that we have as a local municipality that

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Speaker 4: you know, anytime we want to change our outs. And

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Speaker 4: what we can do with this proposal is it's going

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Speaker 4: to reduce the hours by two. So right now it's

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Speaker 4: eleven am or eleven pm during the week one am

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Speaker 4: during the weekends for you know, any juvenile under seventeen.

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Speaker 4: What this is going to do is reduce it by two,

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Speaker 4: so it'll go to to nine and eleven.

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Speaker 5: Good. Well, you know, I think it's good. It's a

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Speaker 5: temporary thing.

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Speaker 4: But we did it last year, right, and what we

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Speaker 4: ended up running into is that, I mean, these are

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Speaker 4: citations and so it's it's a citation to the juvenile,

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Speaker 4: and there's no accountability on the parent.

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Speaker 5: And you know, I tried.

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Speaker 4: I've got a pending proposal right now that is just

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Speaker 4: tabled by the Democrats at the city County to put

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Speaker 4: accountability on the parent for curfew laws violations. We're back

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Speaker 4: doing the same thing we were doing last year by

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Speaker 4: introducing this thing.

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Speaker 5: But that's what we're going to give.

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Speaker 1: Does that mean citation like they have to pay some

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Speaker 1: sort of fee.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like a penalty ticket. That was what a

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Speaker 5: curfew violator.

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Speaker 3: Are you saying that anybody's paying these.

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Speaker 4: I'm not saying that they're actually getting cited or violated.

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Speaker 4: What the Mayor's office doing is trying to partner.

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Speaker 2: And it's like no turn on red signs downtown. Sure,

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Speaker 2: no turn on red. Everybody turns on red. There's supposed

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Speaker 2: to be a curfew, there are supposed to be citations,

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Speaker 2: but I don't think anybody's getting these things right.

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Speaker 4: I mean, think about it if kids want to go

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Speaker 4: down to the town and with guns and break laws,

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Speaker 4: and I doubt they're caring too much about the curfew exactly.

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Speaker 2: Counselor if somebody wants to reach out to you, if

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Speaker 2: they've got questions.

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Speaker 4: For you, how can they find you Michael Paulheart dot

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Speaker 4: com or Counselor Heart on Twitter.

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Speaker 3: Michael Paul Hart, thank you so much. We appreciate Jim.

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Speaker 5: Thanks guys,