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Speaker 1: So the redistricting battle has hit Indiana. We know what

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Speaker 1: the governor has to say about it. We know thus

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Speaker 1: for kind of what Republican leadership has to say about it.

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Speaker 1: What's the other side of the aisle have to say?

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Speaker 1: Let's find out. It's Kennell Casey Show and Rob Casey's

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Speaker 1: here join us now in studio. Mitch Gore, Democrat Representative

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Speaker 1: Mitch Hello, Hey, all right, So have you guys been

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Speaker 1: given any sort of I don't know, directive. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty obvious it's partisan politics. That's it, period, full stop.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's gross. It's a manipulation of the electoral system.

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Speaker 1: But have you guys been given any like in a

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Speaker 1: from a governmental perspective where they are they even trying

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Speaker 1: to sell it to you in terms of there's some

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Speaker 1: sort of necessity or are they just being honest that, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're going to do this because we want more more

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Speaker 1: seats in the Congress.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean normally they're pretty good about spinning some

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Speaker 2: you know, uh lie into some reason why we have

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Speaker 2: to do something, or giving some practical reason why something

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Speaker 2: should be done, or they find some excuse to do things,

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Speaker 2: and everybody knows that. No, really, it's you know, it's

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Speaker 2: for political expediency this time. You know, we've heard nothing

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Speaker 2: because there's there's no way to spend this. It would

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Speaker 2: you know, when when Democrats vote forty percent or when

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Speaker 2: Hoosiers vote across Indiana, you know, forty percent of them

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Speaker 2: vote for a Democrat for Congress. Right with our nine seats,

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Speaker 2: that would be like three Democratic seats and one toss up,

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Speaker 2: but we actually only have two and the other seven

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Speaker 2: a Republican. You know, you can see that the fix

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Speaker 2: is in already. So to want to come back and

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Speaker 2: take the other two, it's it's you can't hide that well.

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Speaker 1: And this is what And I'm just curious that you know,

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Speaker 1: you're in the state House even though there's not a

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Speaker 1: session going on, you're talking to your colleagues. Look, they

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Speaker 1: just drew these was it two years ago? Three years ago?

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Speaker 1: You guys drew twenty one, Yeah, twenty one, So for

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Speaker 1: four years ago, time flies, right, but it wasn't that

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Speaker 1: long ago. And they just said these maps are fair,

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Speaker 1: and there's two Democrat seats and that's okay. They got

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Speaker 1: a little a little creative with the fifth Congressional district,

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Speaker 1: make that little more republican. But that happens. It's not like, yes,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't probably do the same thing if you were in power.

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Speaker 1: But how do you go from just four years ago saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: these maps are perfectly fair to boy, they're so screwed up.

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Speaker 1: Now we've got to redraw the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, I think Simone Biles would have

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Speaker 2: a hard time with the level of gymnastics required to

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Speaker 2: kind of get there. And by the way, I'd like

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Speaker 2: to mention that, you know, we've been calling for an

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Speaker 2: independent redistricting commission for a long long time. So you

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Speaker 2: talk about what Democrats would do were they in power

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Speaker 2: here in Indiana, that's what we've been calling for.

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Speaker 1: And it's similar, i to mean to cutch Off, but's

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Speaker 1: still by the way, Democrat Represative Mitch Gore is our guests,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about redistricting. Todd Rokeita, almost twenty years ago,

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Speaker 1: proposed what you guys are basically proposing, right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he had proposed taking to a certain sent the human

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Speaker 1: element out of it and the partisanship out of it.

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Speaker 1: So it's not some extreme thing that you guys would

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Speaker 1: be saying, Hey, let's get the people and the partisanship

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Speaker 1: out of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the AG's position on it back then, he

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Speaker 2: was one hundred percent right Democrats in Indiana right about it.

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Speaker 2: Now we really need to get there that much more closely.

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Speaker 2: Adheres to kind of what Madison was talking about in

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Speaker 2: Federalist ten when he talks about the tyranny of the majority,

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Speaker 2: kind of take the politics out of it, adhere to

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Speaker 2: some of those constitutional constants or principles, and have an

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Speaker 2: independent redistricting commission. That's what we need. Of course, now

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Speaker 2: we're going to complete other direction and injecting, you know,

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Speaker 2: hyperpartisanship into the map drawing process. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting because obviously our audience leans a little

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Speaker 1: more right, and some people are upset that I have

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Speaker 1: the position that I do. But my position on this is, look,

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Speaker 1: we have a census every ten years, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: sort of the gentleman's agreement that that's how we're going

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Speaker 1: to do our congressional distribution. And hey, if that favors Republicans, great,

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Speaker 1: If it favors Democrats, that's okay. I don't like California

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Speaker 1: doing it, I don't like Texas doing it. I don't

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Speaker 1: like Indiana doing it. It just seems very a very

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Speaker 1: dirty way to get elections in your favor if you

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Speaker 1: can't win them by governing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you think about like George Washington giving up

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Speaker 2: power and sticking to it two terms, right, And now

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Speaker 2: you have a president who so desperately wants to cling

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Speaker 2: to power that he's willing to kind of throw out

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Speaker 2: all of these norms that we've had for two hundred

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Speaker 2: years for very good reasons, just for another two years

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Speaker 2: of being given carte blanche by the Congress. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: make sense. It feels very kind of anti the American

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Speaker 2: experiment to me.

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Speaker 1: So, and I want to get to come back to

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Speaker 1: that in just a second, cause he said something interesting

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Speaker 1: that I think you guys the Democrats could do to

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Speaker 1: maybe bolster your case. Feel free to ignore it in

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Speaker 1: the order in which it's received. We'll come back to

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Speaker 1: that in a second. Though, has Braun or is there

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Speaker 1: any scuttle button in the state House, because Braun came

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Speaker 1: on these airwaves repeatedly during the property tax debacle debate

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, and said, basically, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's no point in calling a special session. It's totally pointless.

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Speaker 1: It's totally useless. No, it doesn't matter. I'll just have

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Speaker 1: to sign whatever they do. Has there been any talk

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Speaker 1: about how they're going to square on his signature issue?

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Speaker 1: He said a special session was pointless, but then on

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Speaker 1: this totally partisan issue he says, sign me up for that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the idea of a special session, it

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Speaker 2: almost makes it even worse, right, like people actually need

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Speaker 2: property tax relief. Right. I think there's more of an

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Speaker 2: argument to have a special session to fix the mess

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Speaker 2: that was made with Senate Bill one. To call a

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Speaker 2: special session instead and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars

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Speaker 2: in taxpayer dollars to what get two more seats in Congress?

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Speaker 2: You know, for two years? It's it's insane.

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Speaker 1: Okay again, Mitch Score is our guest Democrat represented. A

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Speaker 1: few minutes left with him. We're talking about redistricting. What

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Speaker 1: can you guys do? Is the Democrats? I mean, obviously

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Speaker 1: the Democrats I think learned a lesson, hard lesson years

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Speaker 1: ago about leaving. It wouldn't matter now anyway, because the

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Speaker 1: super majorities. What can you guys do? Do you feel

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Speaker 1: do you feel there's a coalision of the willing amongst

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Speaker 1: the Republicans to say, hey, this isn't right.

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Speaker 2: Or is this a fate of complete I mean, I

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Speaker 2: hear from a lot of you know, my district's very

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Speaker 2: you know, we're really in the middle. I got Beech Grove,

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Speaker 2: I got the East side of India. It's a really

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Speaker 2: interesting district. I hear from a lot of folks, and

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Speaker 2: I have a lot of Republican friends and family members,

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Speaker 2: and to them it feels gross too. And so I'm

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Speaker 2: hoping that you know, Indiana Democrats are just one in

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Speaker 2: a cacophony of voices that kind of reach out and

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Speaker 2: say this is this is really terrible. This is kind

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Speaker 2: of against all those those norms that we've had for

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Speaker 2: hundreds of years and maybe altogether because practically Indiana Democrats

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Speaker 2: can't do much of them, raise the issue as much

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Speaker 2: as possible, and then you know, come next year, maybe

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Speaker 2: Clabb or some Republicans with it in the elections.

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Speaker 1: Are they going to manipulate just the congressional districts, so

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Speaker 1: they talking about House and Senate districts too.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the Indiana Constitution is very clear and there's

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Speaker 2: established precedent on this matter. In an AG opinion from

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Speaker 2: a few decades ago that says you cannot do a

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Speaker 2: mid decade redistrict on the Indiana House and Senate maps.

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Speaker 2: It follows the discential census.

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Speaker 1: Do you think because there is some spirited debate, I've

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Speaker 1: seen it online and you know, the internet is never

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Speaker 1: wrong of course, about whether or not they can even

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Speaker 1: do And Nikki Kelly from the Indiana Capitol Chronicle was

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Speaker 1: on with us last week talk about this whether they

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Speaker 1: can even do this redistricting. Are you guys, the Democrats,

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Speaker 1: Are you guys going to raise those legal issues before

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Speaker 1: this is allowed to go forward?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, of course we will. And that's the

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Speaker 2: part that kind of irks me almost as much as

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Speaker 2: the issue itself, is the hypocrisy baked in right anytime

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Speaker 2: I have a bill because I'm the only cop in

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Speaker 2: the General Assembly, anytime I'm the only one, the only

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Speaker 2: currently serving. Yeah, we have some retired members. But anytime

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Speaker 2: I like when I had to address the issue of

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Speaker 2: machine gun switches because Indianapolis cops were getting outgunned on

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Speaker 2: the streets right the hoops, I had to jump through

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Speaker 2: because it strays kind of close to the Second Amendment.

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Speaker 2: You know, the phrase I heard from Republicans was well, no,

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Speaker 2: we know it doesn't. It doesn't actually impede upon like

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Speaker 2: the language of the Second Amendment, but it's a slippery slope. Well,

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Speaker 2: now we get to this conversation where the constitution is clear,

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Speaker 2: both the US and the Indiana Constitution. We do these

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Speaker 2: after the decential census, right, But now Republicans are like,

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Speaker 2: well technically, uh, you know, we could be a little creative.

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Speaker 2: And so it's the hypocrisy that irks me. Are we

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Speaker 2: are we sticking to the black and white? Are we not? Uh?

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Speaker 2: And they have no good answer because it's all about

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Speaker 2: political obediency for them. Do you think there's any way

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Speaker 2: to stop it from happening? Well? Uh, you know, just

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Speaker 2: like Madison warned against the tyranny of the majority, I

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Speaker 2: know some other founders talked about watering the tree of liberty.

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Speaker 2: Outside of that, I have no no, I don't know practically,

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Speaker 2: uh in Indiana. What we can do that we have

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Speaker 2: to return to a system where there are political consequences

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Speaker 2: for doing things like this.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned political consequences.

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Speaker 2: What other consequences do you see coming out of this? Well,

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Speaker 2: I mean hopefully they'd lose in court. Uh, first, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I can't think of any other consequences other than holding

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Speaker 2: them accountable than The.

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Speaker 1: Problem can happen to them is they just lose in

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Speaker 1: court because they've gerrymandered the House and Senate districts to

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Speaker 1: where they can't they can't really lose, they either.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, ideally they would not

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Speaker 2: be targeting Indiana House and Senate raises, but.

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Speaker 1: I think they've already the currently have Oh.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean you have that. But hey, I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know they're Democrats can break the supermajority in the House.

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Speaker 2: That's step one. You know, they do enough next year's

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Speaker 2: midterm year. It was already looking bad, which is why

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Speaker 2: they have to do this whole you know, mid district,

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Speaker 2: mid decade redistricting thing, and you know, maybe they get clobbered.

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Speaker 1: Hey, real quick, before we let you go. One of

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Speaker 1: the selling points that Republicans are trying to make on

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Speaker 1: this is we don't want to go through another impeachment

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Speaker 1: with Trump, and if we lose the House, well it'll

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Speaker 1: be another impeachment. Should the Democrats take that off the

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Speaker 1: table by just publicly declaring, look, this guy's term limited.

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Speaker 1: He can't run again. We're not going to impeach him

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Speaker 1: and just take that away from people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would. I would if I were in leadership

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Speaker 2: in the you know, in the Federal Congress, i'd i'd

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Speaker 2: say something like unless it's something really you know, right

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Speaker 2: obvious in your face, and yeah, we're not gonna go

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Speaker 2: for that.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, good luck, because you know, I think

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Speaker 1: we've kind of taken the right l radio guy wished

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Speaker 1: me good luck. Right, my life is forever better. But

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Speaker 1: I think, like I said, I think reasonable people look

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Speaker 1: at this and see it kind of for what it is.

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Speaker 1: And some people are just gonna be with, okay with

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Speaker 1: it because it helps their team. But I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you look at what this is about, because some

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Speaker 1: day it'll happen to your side. Right, if you do

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Speaker 1: it to their side, some day it'll happen to your side.

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Speaker 1: Your side learned that on the Supreme Court stuff, right

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Speaker 1: with the judges, and so so good luck, we're all

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Speaker 1: we're all counting on you.

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Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Kendall and Casey on ninety three WIBC